Śyāmasundara: Suppose now I am desiring to live so much that I am always...
Prabhupāda: You desire or you not desire, that is because you, foolishly, you do not know that you have to live, desire or not desire, because you are eternal. You have to live. But if you don't live in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you will have to live in abominable condition like cats, hogs, dogs, trees, like that. We have to live. The modern civilization, they do not know that. The tree is also living, I am also living. So why these two different conditions are there? I am living, we are living, every one of us is living eternally, but according to our karma, according to our work, fruitive activities, we are getting different bodies. But we have to live. There is no question of not living.
Śyāmasundara: No, but there's a will...
Prabhupāda: Just like rascal, one who does not know, he commits suicide. He thinks that "If I commit suicide, then everything is finished." That is his ignorance. He is going to get another abominable body. Ghost. He becomes a ghost, so that he suffers more. A ghost means he has got subtle body, mental body, mind, intelligence and everything is there. Mind is there, intelligence, ego is there, but no gross body, so he cannot enjoy. That is ghostly life.
Śyāmasundara: Suppose I am bound up by the desire to live, so that I am always...
Prabhupāda: So you desire good desire, to live good. Change your desire. That is our program. Change your consciousness and live nicely with Kṛṣṇa. That is our program. We don't say, "You die." You live, but live with Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and you will become happy.
Śyāmasundara: So the will to live must not be denied.
Prabhupāda: You cannot do that. That is not possible. That is impossible. The same man who was doing all nonsense, and now they are mad after Kṛṣṇa. So will is there. Formerly he was willing to do all nonsense, now he is willing to serve Kṛṣṇa. So will is not vanished, but he has been engaged in a good willing process, that is all.
Śyāmasundara: Will can never be...
Prabhupāda: No, not for a second. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Not for a second you can live without will. You must will. Because we are living.
Śyāmasundara: What about the Buddhists, who desire...
Prabhupāda: That... They do not believe in the soul. They have no idea.
Śyāmasundara: They desire a state of non-willingness. The Buddhists desire a state of no will.
Prabhupāda: No, their philosophy is that willingness is a symptom at a certain condition of material combination. So you dismantle this material condition so there will be no more willing or no more suffering. That is their philosophy. But that is not fact, that's not fact.
Śyāmasundara: You don't think it's possible to stop willing?
Prabhupāda: No, how it can be, because you are permanent, you are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You do not die even after the destruction of this body, therefore thinking, feeling, willing... (aside:) Go and sleep. The thinking, feeling, willing actually carry you from this gross body to another gross body. How transmigration is taking place? Those who are, I mean to say, gross seer, they see that the body is dead, but he does not know the body is dead, but the willing is not dead. He is being carried away by the willing. That he has no eyes to see. He is simply seeing this gross body is dead, finished, but he has no eyes to see that this soul is now being carried away by the subtle body willing another body. According to his willing he gets another body, gross body, either demigod or dog, as he wills.
Śyāmasundara: As he wills.
Prabhupāda: Yes. At the time of death. Because will is the carrier.
Śyāmasundara: Suppose he wills nothing at the time of death?
Prabhupāda: That is not possible. That is not possible. Even in a dream you are willing so many things. The body is sleeping, completely stopped, but still why you are dreaming? (break) ...does not inquire about his ātma-tattvam, self realization. Whatever he is acting is defeated, parābhava. He is not advancing.
Śyāmasundara: He points out that whenever we gratify our desires, that is so-called happiness, and whenever our desires are frustrated, that is suffering. But our desires are continuously frustrated, they are never satisfied. So he said that we are always suffering, and that the more intelligent a person is, the more he suffers.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Or by suffering, one's intelligence becomes manifested.
Śyāmasundara: Oh.
Prabhupāda: Yes.