Expressions researched:
"hard work"
|"hard working"
|"work hard"
|"work so hard"
|"work very hard"
|"worked hard"
|"worked so hard"
|"worked very hard"
|"working hard"
|"working so hard"
|"working very hard"
|"works very hard"
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Jayapatāka: (break) ...from Vrndavana has composed some Sanskrit poems for Your Divine Grace.
Prabhupāda: Which Śāstrījī?
Jayapatāka: That you preached to last year at the festival time. There were seven śāstrīs, four of which came to Māyāpur, three of which blooped. One is still left. He is very eager to become initiated. He is very hard working and sincere.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What does he do there?
Jayapatāka: He is teaching Sanskrit to the devotees.
Prabhupāda: Very nice.
Indian man: So now everybody will go. When the rich people will take their land they have to go. They will say, "How we can live with the small land," so they will move.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, why they should not try to be rich? If the rich man exploits them, that "You work in our land and take some salary," why they will work for that? They will go to the factory, will get more salary. This way Indira Gandhi cannot solve the poverty problem. They must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like these soldiers, they for twenty years, simply eating and sleeping, and they are not engaged in cultivating-useless waste of time—and government has to maintain in big cantonment, big, big house, big, nice food, nice.... This is going on. Why the soldiers are maintained? It is waste of energy. They should have been engaged in tilling. Formerly the kings would give them free land. "You make your fortune—but on condition: when there is fight, you have to join." That was very easy. He possessed so much land, and he worked hard, and he got riches. Unless.... "Proprietorship turns sand into gold." Unless there is proprietorship, it cannot be. So therefore kṣatriyas, they were given land: "You take land as much as you like and produce but on condition that when there is war you have to join."
Bhavānanda: All day they enjoy. When they are sweeping the road, they don't know that there's difference between work and play.
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Bhavānanda: To them, sweeping the road is their play. They love it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These children are much more hard working than the children in America. Like these few American boys that are here, they cannot compare with these Bengali boys.
Prabhupāda: No.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Their service attitude is much, much better. I think we should...
Prabhupāda: By association they will be also.
Bhavānanda: Yes, they have also improved.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jagaman has.
Bhavānanda: Jagaman is wonderful.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He works very hard. So I think we should try to get as many of these young boys as we can. We should use the facility of this prasādam distribution.
Prabhupāda: The thing is that whether we should... This pamphlet, I don't think it has got any value.
Sudāmā: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The storekeeper says. (laughs)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And when we tell them, "We will also teach you how to do nothing also and live in a palace," they say, "Oh, no, thank you. That I do not want. I want to work hard."
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is called worms of the stool. You see? If you take this worm from the stool, "Why you are living in stool? Come here," "No, no. I go back there." You'll see. The pig eating stool, ask him, "Take halavā. Why you are eating?" "No, no. I like it very much." This is māyā.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So sometimes when a devotee goes, joins Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then leaves again and goes back to the material world, its just like a pig going back to the stool.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The materialism and spiritualism is explained by Rūpa Gosvāmī. There is bird, cātaka. So they drink water when the rain falls, and otherwise they will starve. They will never accept any water from this earth.
Hiraṇyagarbha: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Every śloka there is śabda, dhātu, everything. Nominative, objective. (break) ...some you are going to say, just study yourself, whether it is not the civilization of asses and pigs. You have to understand first of all. Is it not? They are working hard like an ass just to become an ideal pig. Is it not this civilization?
Harikeśa: Having sex with mother, daughter, sister...
Prabhupāda: Yes. How śāstra has picked up the example, just see. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate... (SB 5.5.1). What is that?
Harikeśa: Viḍ-bhujāṁ ye.
Prabhupāda: Viḍ-bhujāṁ ye. This is not civilization. This is civilization, tapasya: no meat-eating, no this, no this, that, and become perfect, ideal brāhmaṇa life, satya śama dama śuci jñāna vijñāna. This is civilization. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Unless you become civilized like this, there is no opportunity of brahma-jijñāsā. And so long you do not inquire about Brahman, that you remain, that pigs and hogs and asses. If human civilization is wasted to cultivate the pig civilization, naturally, "All right, you come here. Become a pig now. Take this body." Kṛṣṇa will say, "Nature, prakṛti, he got this chance to become human being, but has misused. Kindly give him a body of pig."
Harikeśa: Pigs don't like to live in a clean house.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is a story in Bhāgavata that Indra was cursed to become a pig. So after some time there was mismanagement in the heavenly kingdom. Brahmā personally came, "Indra, anyway, you became pig. Now you come with me." "Huh? How can I go? I have got so much responsibility." Then he was killed and took to heaven. So any life, any abominable condition, everyone is thinking, "I am perfect." This is called māyā. Any abominable condition, he is thinking, everyone is thinking, that "I am perfect. I have nothing to advance." This is called māyā. They do not know what is perfection. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). The ideal perfection they do not know. They are trying that "We shall make this pig life adjusted to civilized life." Is it possible? Pig life and adjusting to civilized life? Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we shall get down? (break) Nobody will accept. But if you explain that "You are no better than pigs and hogs and asses," then they will accept. So we have to take the idea from Bhāgavata and explain it for their understanding. That is wanted. (break) People are working so hard. Is it pleasure? But why they are working? They are working with the only hope that "Night, I shall go home, eat nicely and have sex with my wife." That's all. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). Otherwise why they will work so hard? Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...Los Angeles we have got a plant like this next to my window. That land for others, but it comes to my window. What is this?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Hṛdayānanda: Another plane from another country came, and when they delivered all their supplies they said that everything was stolen. They don't know where it went.
Prabhupāda: Stolen?
Hṛdayānanda: Yes. The medicine was all stolen. Also the government was making many people work hard due to the disaster, and when the people...
Prabhupāda: So they are suffering from disaster. Again work hard. Just see how benefit.
Hṛdayānanda: Yes. And when the people said to the government, "You should pay us," they said, "No, we cannot pay you, and if you don't work, we will cut off your food."
Prabhupāda: This is Kali-yuga. Durbhikṣa-kārāpīḍita. One side, government disturbance, one side, no food, and they let them live very happily. That's all. This is their conception of happiness. Tactation(?), taxation, and no food, and natural disturbance.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...if does not become Kṛṣṇa conscious, he remains a fool and go on, all things foolish. I will suggest something; you'll suggest something; he'll suggest something. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). This is not...
Acyutānanda: Travel by the speed of mind.
Prabhupāda: Mental concoction... They'll never be able to come the right conclusion. Simply they'll create disturbances. That's all. Utpāṭyaiva kalpate.(?)Just see. He is working so hard, getting money. Still he cannot provide a nice dāya.
Acyutānanda: He'll gamble his money.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Acyutānanda: They will gamble.
Prabhupāda: For gambling, they have got money, eh? (end)
Prabhupāda: So in Poland, there is no fruit, flower, eh?
Kīrtirāja: Flowers are almost one dollar for one carnation. Fruit, I... The only fruit I have seen is apples. Oranges are very expensive, and that is all.
Prabhupāda: Apples and that strawberry. In Russia, I have seen only strawberry. That's all. No fruit..., no other fruit. Fruit means strawberry. These rascals do not see that they are being punished by nature.
Hari-śauri: Their idea is that the more the struggle goes on, the better, the more glorified, they are.
Prabhupāda: And therefore it is called "ass." (laughter) Ass works very hard, and he thinks, "I am glorified." Mūḍha. Therefore they are called mūḍha. Ugra-karma.
Kīrtirāja: I have seen driving from Germany that even sometimes they don't have an animal ass. They become the ass, and they are carrying the big load on their back, almost on four legs. It is so heavy. (end)
Jayatīrtha: Well, if Kṛṣṇa desires.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything Kṛṣṇa does, but one takes credit. That's it.
Jayatīrtha: We think that we're the doer, but actually Kṛṣṇa is the doer.
Prabhupāda: Harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21).
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's been a feeling that all year their hard work has all become worthwhile simply by coming here.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Yes. Make it more.... Therefore I wanted first of all this house, not the temple, because where they'll stay? They'll come to the temple. Where they will stay? If you get staying place, then you can act your brain and improve. And if you are harassed—no place—then brain will not work. Therefore I wanted first of all the residential place. And they criticize me, "Oh, you did not construct temple first." And a temple of the devotees is first, our temple. Then God. God will come if there are devotees. Tatra tiṣṭhāmi nārada yatra gāyantī mad-bhaktāḥ. Unless there is devotee, where is God? God is not a stone. Any stone is God? Unless there is devotees, there's no God. Therefore, without devotee: the idol, this is idol worship. That is not worship. Therefore they cannot understand what is the form, what is the distinction between form of the Lord and idol. They do not know how to worship in devotion. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante (BG 4.11). They are thinking, "It is stone, and God is remaining here, stone. He will never speak," because they are not devotee. If you become devotee.... Just like Sākṣī Gopāla. For devotee He went to give witness, "Yes, I'll walk." That is God. And if you are not devotee, how you can expect the stone statue is walking? You have read that Sākṣī Gopāla?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, very nice.
Jayatīrtha: They like to be a fool.
Prabhupāda: And...
Gurukṛpā: They say, "You Westerners have enjoyed the material life, and we have not. Therefore let us enjoy, and then we will become."
Prabhupāda: What is that enjoyment? Is that enjoyment? They are working so hard for ten rupees. Is that enjoyment? The enjoyment is "the future, future." "At night I shall go to my wife and enjoy"—that is enjoyment. But for that enjoyment he is working so hard. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). Everyone is thinking, "I shall enjoy at night," and working hard. That's all. This is enjoyment.
Pañca-draviḍa: "But why do you blame us for not surrendering when we see that even Kṛṣṇa's devotees can't surrender to Him? They come to us and ask us for money for these books. Why don't they give them away?"
Prabhupāda: But Kṛṣṇa's devotee.... When he surrenders, he is devotee. When he does not, he is not devotee; he is trying to become devotee.
Hṛdayānanda: Ah! Because they don't know, they say "chance."
Trivikrama: That's right, because I don't know, ignorant.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They want to cover their ignorance by this theory, "chance." They want to become very intelligent by chance. That is their.... That is not the fact. For intelligence you have to learn from a superior person. It cannot be done by chance. Who has become learned scholar by chance? There is none.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Because that is śūdra philosophy, this chance philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone has to work very hard, pass examination, and then he becomes an educated man. Where is by chance one has become learned?
Pañca-draviḍa: What about two people born in the same circumstance? Each has equal education and equal background, but one becomes rich and one remains poor. That's chance.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the fate. Fate is the cause, destiny. Otherwise, so many people are working hard. Why not everyone is becoming rich by chance? Kālena sarvatra gabhīra-raṁhasā. This is the instruction in the Bhāgavatam. Tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukham. There are two things—happiness and distress—and they are being controlled by the time. You have infected some disease. In time, it will come out, manifested, and the doctor say, "Oh, you infected this disease. Take this injection." The time factor. It.... You have to wait to see the result. It is not chance. As soon as you do something, immediately the reaction begins. But you do not see the result immediately, but wait and you'll find.
Madhudviṣa: By our scientific endeavor.
Prabhupāda: You cannot do even a lesser. How you can expect to do...?
Trivikrama: Post-dated check again.
Prabhupāda: Again the same.
Madhudviṣa: But you must give us some time because we are working hard...
Prabhupāda: I shall. I shall give you kick. (laughter) I shall give you kick. And no time. I shall give you kick.
Madhudviṣa: Well that's not very scientific.
Prabhupāda: No. It is scientific. You are a stubborn.... "Scissor philosophy."
Dharmādhyakṣa: Most brain researchers admit they could never create a brain.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Dharmādhyakṣa: Most brain scientists will admit they could never make a brain. Too difficult.
Hṛdayānanda: Scissor philosophy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Scissor philosophy.
Hṛdayānanda: Scissor philosophy and the frog philosophy.
Dharmādhyakṣa: (break) ...something else.
Prabhupāda: Just see. They.... At last, they'll accept: "Yes, I foolish. Yes."
Haṁsadūta: Then they get a prize.
Prabhupāda: So if I say from the beginning that "You are foolish," I am helping him because he has to admit at the end that he's a foolish.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The people that live in the cities think that the farmers work so hard.
Prabhupāda: And these rascals rise early in the morning and start their car to go to the office, five hours coming and going, and eight hours working there...
Lokanātha: Again in the evening they have to drive back. (break)
Pañcadraviḍa: ...I saw that these big men, they were taking so many pep pills during the day to do their work, and in the evening they had to take tranquilizers to go to sleep.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I have seen so, so many advertisements. One has to take at least five to six types of.
Pañcadraviḍa: No peace of mind.
Madhudviṣa: In this way the Kali-yuga will progress, and they'll eat less and less food and take more pills, and they will think it is advancement.
Prabhupāda: Mm. Yes.
Prabhupāda: India has no, had no such ideas. They are borrowing ideas. India's idea is self-realization. Live very simple life—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. The brāhmaṇas, they are living simple life, becoming very learned scholar, pure character, advanced in spiritual life—one class, ideal. And kṣatriyas, they are supposed to be the king. They distribute the land on nominal taxation, and the vaiśyas utilize the land for cultivation and cow-keeping, and the śūdras, they are engaged as weaver, blacksmith, goldsmith, mean other necessities of life. In this way the whole society is simplified, and the central point is how to become advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness by cooperation. This is India's civilization. There is no question of industry. Ugra-karma. It has been condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā as ugra-karma, laboring very hard for livelihood. This industry means engage the poor worker class to work very hard, and there is huge profit, and some directors of the capitalists, they take it. And they have one dozen motorcars, palatial building, no work, simply wine and woman, that's all. This is going on. And the others, they are seeing: "There is no classification, neither real brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśya.
Prabhupāda: But we shall go this way?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it's okay. The car is just back here when you want to go back.
Devotee (1): On one tape in America you said that the Westerners have created many, many parks, but because they are so busy trying to work hard for money they cannot take advantage.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (1): Therefore we will come early in the morning and take advantage.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is our ājagara-vṛtti. Ājagara-vṛtti means we haven't got to work for anything. Everything should be done by others, and we shall take possession of it. (laughter) Just like the Americans. They have earned so much money, and I have gone there and taking possession. I am not more clever than the Americans? (laughs) "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and give money. I'll take to India." What do you think?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You once gave the example of a mouse. The mouse digs a hole, and then the snake comes along and takes the house away from the mouse.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And eats him. The mouse makes very comfortable home by digging, and the snake comes, he enters without any labor, and the mouse is there and he eats it.
Prabhupāda: ...give you this foolishness that in other countries they have taken to industry and they are also fully engaged in agriculture. Here the men are taken from the village for industrial work, and the agricultural work suffers.
Dr. Patel: Not so in industry. People are idle. It is just like a man having one son, another man having six sons. If the man with six sons works very hard, he is more, I mean, rich than that fellow. But those six boys don't work? Then he goes to hell.
Prabhupāda: No, he works. He sees that "In the village I shall get one rupee per day, and if I go to the town I shall get twenty rupees."
Dr. Patel: Not that, sir, even that, there is no jobs.
Prabhupāda: But he thinks there is job. He leaves.
Dr. Patel: Yes, they come here in search of job.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They suffer. They live in the huts and very nasty place, still expecting.
Prabhupāda: Minimum. Sometimes we go to fifty thousand dollars.
Carol Jarvis: A day?
Prabhupāda: Day. All over the world.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Devotees are working very hard to spread this consciousness, knowledge. (background talking)
Prabhupāda: Religious book, selling daily so much, huge amount, that is unique in the history.
Carol Jarvis: Are they sold mainly in the Western countries?
Prabhupāda: All over the world. Especially in Europe, America.
Hariśauri: We even had some book orders just recently from Russia.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are also inquiring.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Available in every species of life also.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is ajñāna. Ajñāna-timirāndhasya. This big house, (break) ...so that you will work hard. And he used to do that. You bring money and he'll spend. And if you say, "Sir, we collected this money for this purpose." "Yes, he spent. You again collect." Somebody has paid that constructing temple, and he has spent for other purpose. Then, when the devotee will say, "Oh, what this man will say?" "That's all right. You collect again." (break) ...he'll get some money, he'll make some arrangement for doll exhibition and spend the all money.
Guru-kṛpā: Are they going to start on Māyāpur building this year?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guru-kṛpā: That is beginning?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Collect and spend. Collect and spend for Kṛṣṇa, that is nice. I am therefore asking them to print books. I have got so much in the Book Fund. Print books. Let there be books stocked and no money stocked. (break) ...upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje.
Prabhupāda: I do not follow.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: One who is going to...
Prabhupāda: Everyone is working hard for material benefit. So why someone? Everyone. Who is not working for material necessities? Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca saman... If the cats, dogs, human being, everybody is working very hard.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Say, for example, one who is engaged simply in preaching.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: One who is engaged simply in preaching.
Prabhupāda: He's serving Kṛṣṇa. He's not material necessities.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So Kṛṣṇa is supplying all facility at least to maintain body and soul together.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. I went to your country without any money. Now Kṛṣṇa has given. I went with forty rupees; now I have forty crores. Who has done this business? So if you serve Kṛṣṇa, so Kṛṣṇa will supply everything, whatever you need, require. He doesn't require to ask for it.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The question then is, is a devotee required to work very hard for material necessities?
Prabhupāda: Yes. He has to work sincerely to serve Kṛṣṇa. Then everything is there.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even he doesn't consider material necessity?
Prabhupāda: Where is material necessity? Even for the cats and dogs, there is no material necessities. It is all supplied by Kṛṣṇa. It is simply māyā that "I am in material necessities." There are eight million lower species of life. Who is doing business for his...? We, simply civilized men, we are doing this. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa is supplying everyone. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He supplies everything. Even the ant within the hole of your room, are you giving any food?
Devotees: No.
Prabhupāda: Then how he's living? And the elephant in the forest of Africa. Who is going to give them food? How they're living? From the elephant to the ant, He's providing, and He cannot provide you. This is all mistaken idea. You haven't got to ask. Everything is there. Because in the.... (break) ...accustomed to sense gratification life after life, we are habituated to ask. That is a habit. "Habit is the second nature." Actually, we don't require. These dogs, they are not asking, going to the church for asking, "God, give us our daily bread." Where he is getting bread? (break) Dogs are enjoying, but they are not asking bread from God. And where they are getting? (bird chirping in background.) (break) ...how he's chirping so nicely. But he has no anxiety. He knows that "I'll get my food anywhere. That's all right." The bird has got the sense, confidence: "Yes, I'll get." And that's a fact.
Prabhupāda: Oh, purport read.
Nalinīkaṇṭha: "In the material world in any form of life there is some so-called happiness and so-called distress. No one invites distress in order to suffer, but still it comes. Similarly, even if we do not endeavor to obtain the advantages of material happiness, we shall obtain them automatically. This happiness and distress are obtainable in any form of life without endeavor. Thus there is no need to waste time and energy fighting against distress or working very hard for happiness. Our only business in the human form of life should be to revive our relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead and thus become qualified to return home, back to Godhead. Material happiness and distress come as soon as we accept a material body, regardless of what form. We cannot avoid such happiness and distress under any circumstances. The best use of human form of life, therefore, lies in reviving our relationship with the Supreme Lord Viṣṇu."
Prabhupāda: So, is there any question about this statement?
Arnold Weiss: Yes. What originally caused us to lose our relationship with Lord Kṛṣṇa? I understand it is due to our desires, but how is this desire manifest?
Prabhupāda: Relationship is not lost. Just like you... Either you are in the prison house or you are in the kingdom of the state, your relationship with government is there. It does not mean that when you are put into the prison house to suffer, it does not mean you have lost relationship, is it that?
Prabhupāda: Now, if He is ordering to become His devotee, how can I try to become another God, competitor? This is the folly, and for this we are suffering. He asked him, "You become My devotee." And I want to become another God, competitor. And therefore we are suffering. We cannot become another God. That is not possible. But artificially you are trying. Therefore you are suffering. Anything you try artificially, you'll suffer. If you try for a thing artificially, then what is the result? Result will be suffering and disappointment. Therefore śāstra says, tasyaiva hetoḥ prayeteta kovidaḥ. Don't try for such things... You have tried all through in different forms of life. You have failed. So don't try for that. But try to become servant of God. Then your life will be successful. Because in the material world the endeavor is how to become God in different varieties: how to become president, how to become minister, how to become master, how to become very strong man, very wealthy man, very beautiful man, so on, so on, so on, up to—when everything fails—then how to become God. When everything fails, then, ultimately, "Now I shall become God." The same disease is there, how to become big, now the biggest. And that is the same disease in a different form. Therefore, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, it is said, kṛṣṇa-bhakta-niṣkāma, ataeva śānta, bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī-'aśānta' (CC Madhya 19.149). Bhukti means material enjoyment. Karmīs... Just like ordinary men, they are working so hard day and night. This airplane is running here and there, (loud airplane passing over) day and night, carrying karmīs. So this is bhukti. How to enjoy this material world fully, this is called bhukti. So because they are after bhukti, how there can be peace? He has to work very hard. And mukti, those who are jñānīs, they are trying to become one with God. So that is also very difficult. But still, there are so many sādhanas. That is also... But the desire is there. The karmīs are desiring to enjoy material world, and the jñānīs are desiring to become the supreme. That is also another desire. So bhukti mukti siddhi. Yogis, they are trying to achieve some mystic power. And if you attain some mystic power, without airplane if you can fly... The yogis can do that. Or if you can walk on the water... The yogis can do it.
Prabhupāda: So sleeping is waste of time. Therefore spiritual advancement means minimizing sleeping. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. About the Gosvāmīs' life it is said they conquered over nidrā-āhāra. If you eat extraordinarily, then you will sleep also extraordinarily. If you eat frugally, as much minimum required, then you can conquer over sleep. Eating, sleeping. Sleeping depends on eating. Atyāhāra. Atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ (NOI 2). The people in the material world.... Atyāhāra means collecting more than necessity. One, somebody has got millions of dollars; still, he is working hard day and night to increase the bank balance. Why? You have got sufficient money; now you engage your life for spiritual advancement and take little food. God has given you enough. Why you are wasting your time in collecting money and eating more? That is misuse. Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī says, atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ. Āhāra means eating, and āhāra means collecting. So these are against bhakti principles. Collecting more than necessity or eating more than necessity. Atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ. Prayāsa, things which are not done very easily, I have to endeavor very, very hard, that kind of work should be avoided. Atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca prajalpaḥ, and talking nonsense.
Rādhā-vallabha: My father used to get up very early in the morning to go to work, and he would be so tired from going to work, as soon as he got home, he would just eat and immediately fall asleep. I'd ask him why he was working so hard, he would say, "Simply to support the children." But now he has no more wife, no more children, and he's still working the same.
Prabhupāda: Horrible civilization. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Rādhā-vallabha: They say they have no time.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) All right, come to New Vrindaban, we shall give you food. That they won't come.
Rādhā-vallabha: They have to work.
Devotee: They are afraid of nature.
Kīrtanānanda: So Śrīla Prabhupāda, I'm going back tonight.
Prabhupāda: Why so soon?
Kīrtanānanda: To get ready for your coming.
Rādhā-vallabha: I think that's all Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja ever thinks of, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Rādhā-vallabha: I think all Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja ever thinks of is when you are coming.
Prabhupāda: I am also thinking of their fresh vegetables and fresh milk. (devotees laugh) Which is not avail...
Hayagrīva: Remember the first time you came out, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: And the white men, they are very much afraid of these black men. They have to be afraid.
Jagadīśa: They've taken over the city.
Prabhupāda: Without them, the factories cannot go on. That's all. The white men cannot work so hard. How they...? No gentleman can do that. This kind of work is meant for the fourth-class, fifth-class men. Therefore they cannot say anything. They require. And they know that their money will be taken away again by supplying them wine. They'll pay, and next moment, the wine merchant will take away. And the government will get huge profit without doing anything. And excise tax. Excise tax, government hasn't got to invest or do anything—simply take the tax.
Hari-śauri: Every time they put a tax increase, it's always on beer and cigarettes. Always, every time. And motorcars. Because they know the people are so much addicted that even if they squeeze and squeeze and squeeze, they will still get more, and the people will still pay.
Prabhupāda: And addicted people, they, they're after the.... Get money some way or other. Beg, borrow or steal. So these black men especially, they are expert. They are not expert in begging, but borrowing and stealing.
Prabhupāda: Now suppose these electric lights. So, crude form of light, we grow some castor seed, everything from the earth. This also you are getting from earth, petroleum, and running on machine, and electricity is generated. But really you are getting the impetus from the earth. As soon as the petroleum supply is stopped, everything stopped. But for this purpose you have to search out petroleum from the middle of ocean, boring. Therefore it is ugra-karma. The purpose is that you grow some castor seed, press it, get oil, put in any pot, and one wick, the light is there. So even understanding that you have improved the lighting system, but that is not the only necessity of my life. But to improve from the castor seed lamp, castor oil lamp, to this electricity, you have to work so hard. You have to go to the middle of ocean and drill it and get out petroleum and... In this way your real business of life is finished. The energy and the intelligence you got for your self-realization or your, this precarious position, constantly dying and taking birth in various species of life, this is your problem, and this was to be solved in human life, you have got advanced intelligence, but that intelligence is utilized from castor seed lamp to the electric lamp. That's all. Just try to understand. What is that improvement? And for this improving from castor seed oil lamp to electricity lamp, you forget your real business. You lost yourself. This civilization is going on. This is called māyā. For some fictitious happiness you lose your whole purpose of life. It is difficult to understand, but the fact is there. But you are under the control of nature, you have to give up this body. All right, you make very nice arrangement to live here, nature will not allow you to live. You must die. And after death you are going to get another body. So in this body, working for high grade electricity lamp, you work so hard, have got your own business, and next life by the laws of nature, if you get the body of a dog, then what is the benefit? That you cannot check. What is the answer? Hmm?
Kīrtanānanda: But nobody works longer hours than the farmer.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Kīrtanānanda: No one works harder than the farmer. The farmer has to work very hard.
Prabhupāda: No, our point is that if you think that electricity improvement is better than farming, we have no objection. But if you forget your real business, is that intelligent?
Kīrtanānanda: No, of course not.
Prabhupāda: That is our proposal. Our real business is how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. So simply for improving the condition of life, the necessities of life, if I forget my real business, is that intelligence? Therefore it is said duṣkṛtinaḥ. Kṛti means merit. But merit is being utilized for sinful activities. Take for example the meat-eaters. When man was... The uncivilized man is still there. In the uncivilized way they are living in the jungle. They require to eat something. So they stone over an animal going, and the animal dies, and then they eat. Now instead of killing the animal by stoning, if you have discovered scientific machine in the slaughterhouse to kill the animal, is that improvement? If you think this is advancement, "Now we have discovered very technical machine. Instead of stoning one animal killing, it takes so much time, hundreds and thousands of animals you can kill in one hour," do you think that is improvement? That is going on. They think this is improvement.
Kīrtanānanda: It makes farming more difficult on the hill. It takes more time, more work.
Prabhupāda: Hard work.
Kīrtanānanda: That is good.
Prabhupāda: For cows there is no difficulty.
Kīrtanānanda: No.
Prabhupāda: In India, they call Pahārhī when they are accustomed to hard work. Those who live on the Himalayan side, they have to work little hard, therefore they are Pahārhī. You have accepted other's children also?
Kīrtanānanda: Yes. Well, especially girls who have no husbands, there are quite a few here.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, you are so kind you don't refuse anybody. That is..., who is so kind unless one is a Vaiṣṇava? Nobody is kind. Kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca. Kṛpā-sindhu, ocean of mercy, that is Vaiṣṇava. Never mind what you are, come here, stay, drink milk, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says it is already fixed up. Sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha-yogena dehinām. This pleasure is the same, but according to the body... The uncivilized man in the jungle, they are having the same thing. And they are taking civilization that "Instead of living in that hut made of leaves, we are living in skyscraper building. This is advancement." But Vedic civilization says, "No. This is not advancement. The advancement is self-realization, how much you have realized yourself." Not that from the hutment you have come to skyscraper building, therefore it is advancement. Sometimes they misunderstand. In a high-court a judge is sitting soberly, doing nothing, and he is getting the highest salary. And another man in the same court, he's working day and hard rubber-stamping and he is getting not even one tenth of the salary. He's thinking, "I am so busy and working so hard. I am not getting any good salary. And this man is sitting only on the bench and he's getting so fat salary." So therefore this is question like that. The Vedic civilization is for self-realization. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido (SB 1.5.18). Kovido means very learned. He'll simply try for that thing which was not received, which was not achieved in other life. That means self-realization. Just like we are sometimes charged, "escape." What is the charge?
Devotee: We are escaping from reality.
Prabhupāda: There is the question. (devotees laugh) but their reality is dog's race, and our reality is to advance in self-realization, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is difference. Therefore karmīs have been described as mūḍha, asses. Asses. And asses, why the example is given to the asses? Because the ass works very hard. It loads on the back tons of cloth of the washerman, and the washerman in return gives him little morsel of grass, and he stands at the door of the washerman, eats the grass, again loading. But he has no sense that "If I go out of these clutches of washerman I can get grass anywhere. Why I am loading so much?" The karmīs are like that. They're busy in the office, very busy. If you want to see him, "I am very busy now." (laughter) So what is your result of busy? "Now, I take two pieces of toast and one cup of tea. That's all." (laughter) And for this purpose you are so busy? He does not know why he's busy. Because in the books he's finding, "Now, the balance was one thousand million dollars, now it has become two thousand," that his satisfaction. But he will eat two pieces of bread and one cup of tea. When it was one million dollars, when it was two million dollars. But still he'll work hard. This is called karmī. Asses. Work like asses, without any aim of life. This is asses. Mūḍha. But Vedic civilization is different. The accusation is not correct. They are not lazy. They are busy for higher subject matter. And that busy-ness is so important that Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "Beginning from the childhood," kaumāra ācaret prājño (SB 7.6.1). Not lose a second time. So that is Vedic civilization. But these asses, they do not see that "These men are working like us, like dogs and asses. So they are escaping." Yes, escaping your fruitless endeavor.
Prabhupāda: Pratihatā means suppose you are destined to suffer. So apratihatā means in spite of your so-called suffering, the suffering will be reduced or there will be no suffering. But in spite of suffering, you can make progress in spiritual life. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja himself, his father was putting him in so many suffering conditions but it was not impeded. He was making progress. He was making progress. He didn't care for father'sputting him into so many suffering. That is called apratihatā. If you want to execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness, your material condition of life cannot check it. That is the progress (?) (indistinct). But so far material condition, that cannot be checked. You have to suffer. But in case of devotee that suffering also, can be stopped. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa's version is false: ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. Suffering is there on account of my sinful activities but Kṛṣṇa says ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ. Make it clear. Ordinarily destiny cannot be checked. Therefore instead of wasting your time for change your economic condition or material destiny, you employ this energy for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That cannot be checked. Your so-called... So many men we can see, they are working so hard, does it mean that everyone has become a Ford, a Rockefeller? Why? Everyone is trying his best. Mr. Ford was to become rich man, his destiny was there, he became rich man. But does it mean that other man who has worked so hard like Ford, he has become like a Ford? No. This is practical. You cannot change your destiny simply by working hard like ass (?) and dogs. No. But you can utilize your energy for improving your Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Dhana means money. So if you have got money, then everyone will respect you. Personally you may be less than a dog, but because you have got money, people will respect you. Is it not? (laughs) In England I was guest in John Lennon's house. He has taken a photograph, naked. And he's a big man. He gives opinion to the newspaper reporter. People go there to take his opinion about some serious subject, and he speaks, and the man is so shameless that he is standing naked, and he's important man—because he has got money. Especially in the Western countries this is very prominent. If you have got money, then you have got everything. Therefore they are after money only, that "If some way or other, if I get money, then I get everything. I get respect, I get honor. I get everything. Bring money somehow or other." This is the attempt. Therefore there is so much hard struggle. From early in the morning, four o'clock, they are going to the office to get money. To get more money, more money, that is the Western civilization. Now in India they have also learned. And our philosophy is "Don't try to get money." Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayeteta. "You should simply engage your life for advancing your Kṛṣṇa consciousness." So who will hear us? We say, "There is no need of working so hard for money." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This kind of working hard is done by the hogs and dogs, so why a human being should work so hard simply to get the necessities of life? (break) ...and dogs, they are getting necessities of life in that way. (break) This association, this meeting, this talking, is meant for the human body; it is not for the cats and dogs. This is human civilization. Naimiṣāraṇya meeting going on, all the big, big learned brāhmaṇas, sages, they are talking how to do welfare activities to the human society. What is this civilization? Simply money, money, money, money, money. And as soon as you get money, then you begin all nonsense, illicit sex, meat-eating, drinking, gambling. What you will do with the money? You do not know how to spend it. Hm. Dhana-māna-madānvitāḥ.
Rādhāvallabha: They consider it a very noble cause to increase knowledge.
Prabhupāda: That... The same story, that some frogs were there, and children was throwing stone. Then the frogs appealed, "Sir, why you are throwing stone upon us?" "No, we are playing." "So what is play for you, it is death to us." So these rascals are playing, and we have to pay heavy tax for that. This is going on. We are playing, making some scientific research, and who will pay for that? You. You work hard in the factory and pay tax. This is civilization. "You pay tax, and we spend it as we like." Frivolity(?). This is going on. This is the government of Kali-yuga. What can you do?
Devotee (2): "In God We Trust."
Prabhupāda: "What is play to you is death to us." And "Never mind. You die. We play." They have already spent so much money, moon exploration. And that has stopped now, no benefit. They brought some sand and some rock, satisfied. Again the same thing with Mars. But we can say from our poor knowledge that as they have failed in the moon planet, they will fail also in the Mars. Take it down. Note now. Do you know this is all bluff?
Rādhāvallabha: In Los Angeles papers they quoted you saying that, that they didn't go to the moon.
Ṛṣi Kumāra: We just got here his afternoon.
Prabhupāda: "We" means along with...?
Ṛṣi Kumāra: I came with Rādhāvallabha prabhu.
Prabhupāda: Rādhāvallabha, just see, young boy, how he's working hard. You were doing also. You were doing so many things at a time. In Bombay you were doing herculean task, everywhere. He knows how to cook, how to give massage, how to... Yes. How to keep accounts, yes. Qualified. How to cook. Everything. So, may Kṛṣṇa save you. What can I say more?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This evening, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we are arranging that you can see the film a little bit later in your room. Perhaps you would like to sit outside in the garden?
Prabhupāda: Very nice. New York, how is everything going?
Rādhāvallabha: Very nice.
Prabhupāda: So we have to go outside?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (aside:) The chair is there? There are some people who have come, if you'd like to...
Prabhupāda: Yes, I'll go. So you have given them some prasādam?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We arranged for that.
Prabhupāda: The life comes from the man. The living entity takes shelter of the semina, and the semina is discharged in the womb of the woman, and if the situation is favorable, then the living entity remains there and that body develops. This is pregnancy. And that yoni, that mother, is situated, selected by daiva-netreṇa, by superior management: "This man has worked..., this living entity has worked in such a way, he should go to such and such womb." Then if he goes to a queen's womb he becomes a prince; if he goes to the dog's womb he becomes a dog. The mother gives the body. And the superior's order is there, "Now you must go to the dog's womb. He must go to the queen's womb." Otherwise, how it is from the birth one is prince, another is dog, if there is no superior? Who likes to become a dog? No. But according to his karma, by superior arrangement, he has to take. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22). He has infected the contamination of material modes of nature, and he must develop a type of body according to that consciousness. Just like if you contaminate some disease, germ, then you must suffer from that disease. This is the mystery of birth. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu. Otherwise, why there are difference of varieties of life? Sat, asat, something good, something bad. That he does not know. He works independently, defies the laws of nature, and becomes implicated. And on account of dull brain, he is punished, "Stand up here for ten thousands of years. Become a tree," that's all. That is the result of his dullness. "Remain here for ten thousand years, a dull brain. Even one cuts, you cannot protest. You suffer all kinds of natural disturbances." This is very sinful when you become a tree. And they do not make any distinction between life and matter. These things are going on. There is no knowledge, and they are passing as scientist, as philosopher. Why varieties of life? What is the scientific explanation? One life, he is prince; one life, he is tree. Why this difference? Is there any explanation? There must be some explanation. It is also life, it is also life. Why one life has got this prince body, another this tree body? Kāraṇam..., Bhagavad-gītā, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). The cause is association of different types of material modes of nature. If you keep yourself dull as the tree, without associating with the modes of goodness, without becoming a brāhmaṇa, then you become a tree. That's all. And if you become a brāhmaṇa, then develop your association with goodness and go back to home, back to Godhead. Therefore human life should be fully engaged, athāto brahma jijñāsā, simply for understanding Brahman. And as soon as you understand brahma-jānāti iti brāhmaṇa, then you are brāhmaṇa. And as soon as you are brāhmaṇa, then you act as a brāhmaṇa, sattva śamo damas titikṣā ārjavaṁ jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). Then you become Vaiṣṇava. When you become Vaiṣṇava, tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti, you are hankering after Viṣṇu. Then your life is success. And to keep them dull brained, like these trees and mountains, that is the greatest disservice in the human society. They have got the capacity to become a brāhmaṇa, and they are keeping him just like a dull-brained mountain and tree. That we want to stop this. It is suicidal, suicidal to the human society. They have got the chance of becoming a brāhmaṇa, and they are keeping them as dull-brained trees and mountains. The modern civilization, most harmful civilization. Denying the facility. One has got the capacity to become a brāhmaṇa, and they are denying the facility, to keep him to remain like hogs and dogs. Whole day and night, work hard to find out some stool, and as soon as we get some stool, a little strength, then have sex without any discrimination. This is civilization.
Prabhupāda: Vāsudeva, surrenders. That's nice. All right, continue tomorrow. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19).
Devotees: Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Distribute this prasādam. (break) Janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam (SB 1.2.7). Vairāgya and jñāna, both thing will develop, Vāsudeva. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Take prasādam. Give him twice, he has worked very hard. (laughter) Double, you should give double. So Kṛṣṇa will bless you. So push this scientific movement, go to every university, every college. How they are receiving now in the college circles?
Sadāpūta: We gave a lecture a couple of days ago in Gainesville, and it was interesting. We actually gave a couple of TV interviews.
Prabhupāda: How they received it?
Sadāpūta: Well in the class, at first the professor said "That's completely fallacious." But he quieted down.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they will say like that, "fallacious," but you have to make them down. (laughter)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: In the TV it was very favorable. The interview was just a professor at the University of Florida, and he's a professor of religion and history. We were speaking how life comes from life from a philosophical and scientific point of view, and he received very well and asked questions also.
Prabhupāda: All right.
Prabhupāda: The material civilization is the jāgrati for the materialistic person. But those who are spiritually enlightened, they think that these persons are sleeping. They got the opportunity of understanding God, and without understanding God, they are simply busy with the material body and its comfort and working hard day and night, and missing the point. And whereas the materialistic persons, they see these Kṛṣṇa conscious people, Hare Kṛṣṇa people, they are wasting their time by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and they are doing nothing. Just the opposite business. These people are seeing the materialistic persons, they are sleeping, not enlightened to the spiritual life; and these materialistic persons, they are seeing that these people, under some fictitious idea, they are spoiling their life without enjoying material facilities. Just the opposite.
Bill Sauer: I try to resolve these two views. I believe that materialism has a divine purpose.
Prabhupāda: Everything has got divine purpose. But if you do not understand the divine purpose, then you remain animal.
Rāmeśvara: I observed that these devotees at New York, they've practically given up sleeping this past week to prepare everything for your arrival.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) They are so kind to me.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they worked very hard.
Rāmeśvara: It reminded me that time when the Press devotees stayed up all the time to get those Caitanya-caritāmṛta volumes. The same spirit. They just stopped eating and sleeping.
Prabhupāda: That is love. These things can be done only out of love.
Rāmeśvara: There were some hired carpenters and painters, and their last day of working was, I think, Wednesday. So yesterday and this morning they came in voluntarily, they stayed up the whole night without sleep, and they continued working.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Eight o'clock yesterday, and they just finished this morning. Straight through the night.
Prabhupāda: They are professional?
Rāmeśvara: Professional, but by the association of the devotees...
Prabhupāda: They become...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One of them now says that he wants to rent a room for the whole year in our building.
Rāmeśvara: He loves the prasādam.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says he likes the prasādam.
Prabhupāda: Why don't you stay here? No rent, you stay here. You are devotee. Stay here.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Pretty big carts. These carts have the same mechanism, they go up and down, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is John. He's always helping us with the building. He works very hard. Which cart will Śrīla Prabhupāda ride on? Jayānanda? Which cart will Prabhupāda ride on?
Ādi-keśava: We wanted to know which one. Which one would you like to ride on?
Hari-śauri: Balarāma's cart goes in front?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, Jagannātha's was going in front in San Francisco, then Subhadrā's.
Hari-śauri:...told us Balarāma's is at the front,
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, really.
Hari-śauri: And then Subhadrā's then Jagannātha at the back. That's the way they do it in Purī.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What's that cart, Jayānanda?
Jayānanda: This is a little Ratha-yātrā cart from last year. We use it as an advertisement for the Ratha-yātrā.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, it's a good advertisement. Quite an improvement from last year to this year.
Prabhupāda: The whole go-down is rented.
Prabhupāda: Spiritual life is never retired. It is eternal. There is no question of retire.
Interviewer: I was wondering whether perhaps you would personally take a less active role.
Prabhupāda: No, I am not taking any very great active part. They are doing. I am simply reading.
Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda is saying that the disciples are working so hard.
Interviewer: Oh, I see.
Rāmeśvara: But I was explaining to her that you are traveling all over the world, visiting your centers, and at the same time writing so many books.
Prabhupāda: That may be lessened. That may be lessened, but that does not mean retirement.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He may not travel as much, but that doesn't mean retiring from spiritual life, because spiritual life goes on continuously at all times...
Interviewer: I didn't mean that he was retiring from spiritual life.
Hari-śauri: From management.
Bali-mardana: His main work is his books, so he'll continue that.
Interviewer: I was wondering if he had a successor to do... Do you have a successor to take your place when you die?
Prabhupāda: Not yet settled up. Not yet settled up.
abhupāda: Why deported?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, because they are Hare Kṛṣṇas. There's one man, he says, in Osaka that's a big demon, one policeman who simply makes his business to try and find out the devotees. So that one man arrested three of them in one day. Anyway he's just taking another thirty-five thousand out and he's immediately transferring today ten thousand to Gargamuni and he's arranging a bank account jointly with Rāmeśvara in Los Angeles for his other money. Rāmeśvara will put the money in fixed deposit and monthly transfer ten thousand dollars for construction. Gurukṛpā was happy to know that the money could be used for that. He says he's studying, chanting and working very hard.
Prabhupāda: They are trying to drive us away. How to counteract it?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, we have to do some positive, very subtle positive preaching. I suggested that—if you recall—I suggested that a cultural center should be opened there on the basis of showing dolls, showing movies, restaurant,
Prabhupāda: Books.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Books.
Prabhupāda: Literature.
Bali-mardana: To keep people within the conception that life is within the jail.
Prabhupāda: Just like a man has gone to jail, he's giving education to the prisoners, "My dear brother prisoners, this life is not good, you become honest, don't come to the jail." So other prisoners, they are working hard, they are hammering on the bricks, they think that "This man is not hammering on the bricks, he's talking only."
Interviewer: I didn't gather that.
Bali-mardana: In the prison the people are, their work is, say, to hammer on bricks. So when, if someone comes into the jail and tells the prisoners, "You shouldn't be doing this, actually you should become honest and go out of the jail and be free." Now if the persons in the jail... Because... They will then become envious that "this person, instead of working hard like us, he's simply talking." They cannot understand the benefit that he's giving them and they become envious, that "Because he's not working like us he is nonsense." So do you understand the analogy? It's an analogy. Just like we are coming in the world and telling people to get out of this world, to understand the spiritual world, spiritual side of life. But because we're not working like them, sometimes they misunderstand what is our purpose.
Interviewer: In other words you think people should get away from what they're doing in the world.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, that is real life.
Prabhupāda: They do not know what is progress. That I was talking with your Associated Press, press reporter. Just like they do not know that their material life means they are in the prison house for being punished. They are so dull headed they are taking the activities of punishment as regular life. A man is put into the prison house, and his engagement is breaking the bricks. So he has forgotten that "This breaking of bricks is not my business. I am meant for living freely outside the prison house." So these people, less intelligent people, they think that this material life of working hard day and night, just like the hogs and dogs, is general life. That is due to their ignorance. In the Bhāgavata it is said, nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1), that this human form of life, although we have got this body, and the hog has also got the body, the hog is working day and night... Perhaps you have seen in Indian village, the hog is loitering in the village. His only business is where to find stool, and eat it. And as soon as he eats, he becomes strong in sense, and then sex. The hog has no discrimination of sex—either mother or sister or anyone. So this sort of life, working day and night for stool, and then as soon as the body is strong, find out sex, never mind whether mother, sister or anyone... This is not human life; this is hog's life. Do you think it is human life?
Bali-mardana: It was amazing that one little generator was supplying all the power. This one little gasoline generator was supplying the power for all the sound and the various electricity things.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, there was no electrical hook-up; we did that with a gas generator.
Prabhupāda: Oh. And there was no sound, cutcutcutcutcut.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, because we put it very far away. In India that would be a nuisance, the sound of the...
Prabhupāda: So where is Ambarīṣa?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was not in the parade.
Bali-mardana: He is going back to..., I spoke to him for a little while. He's going back to Boston right after the parade, I think, with Aja? I spoke to him; he seemed to be a nice boy. I asked him, because we were meeting with reporters. So they like to ask who is giving you big donations. I wasn't sure whether he wanted his name to be used or not, but he said, "Oh, yes, you can use it without any question. I do not mind at all." (pause)
Prabhupāda: All right, go take rest, you have worked so hard.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we didn't. (end)
Hari-śauri: The reason why the Russians were buying wheat from America...
Prabhupāda: Yes?
Hari-śauri: ...was because they had no rain. All their crops failed.
Jayatīrtha: Not only that, people aren't inclined to work very hard. The farmers are not very enthusiastic to work very hard, because they work very hard, but they have to give all the fruit away. So because they are karmīs, they want the fruit. The state is taking the fruit; therefore they don't want to work.
Prabhupāda: Why they shall work?
Jayatīrtha: They have no incentive.
Prabhupāda: "I'll work and you'll enjoy." Why shall they work? That is natural tendency. This can be possible only for Kṛṣṇa. "I'll work; Kṛṣṇa will enjoy." That's all. That is only possible in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Jayatīrtha: That's a fact. Therefore it's the only practical communism.
Prabhupāda: "I shall fight, give my all best, and Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied." So that.... Arjuna for his personal, he did not..., decline, but when he saw that "Kṛṣṇa wants it? All right." That is kṛṣṇa-prema. "Never mind I shall be aggrieved by killing my kinsmen, but Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied. That's all right." This is Kṛṣṇa philosophy. We cannot find this philosophy in the material world that "I shall work, and so many will be satisfied." That is not possible. "If I work, I must be satisfied." So these communists, they will work according to.... Everyone will show that "I have no capacity." So the production will reduce. And they'll have to beg.
Prabhupāda: Kṣetra-jñākhya tathā para. Avidyā karma saṅgaḥ anya tṛtiya śaktir iśyate. Viṣṇu-śakti, Viṣṇu, the supreme controller, all-pervading Godhead, Viṣṇu, He and His potency, viṣṇu-śakti parā proktaḥ, both of them are transcendental. (someone translates into French throughout) So the Viṣṇu-śakti potency is one. Another reflection of the Viṣṇu-śakti is karma-saṅga anya, that is, you have to work. That is called tṛtiya, the third, karma-saṅga, where you have to work. The idea is that original Viṣṇu potency, you haven't got to work. Everything is supplied automatically. And the avidyā karma-saṅga anya, and the other reflection or perverted reflection, is this material world. Just like you have recited this verse, cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam (Bs. 5.29). In the spiritual world the trees are desire tree—means whatever we want, we can get—whereas in this material world, trees are not like that, they are limited potency. The cows there, unlimited potency. Surabhī means you can milk out as many times as you like, and as much as you like. So the idea is the spiritual world means there is no need of endeavoring for getting anything; everything is there automatically. And the material world, we have got experience, for everything we have to work so hard, then we can get something. So actually this material world is perverted reflection. Just like this body, without the spirit soul, it is useless; similarly, this material world, even if there is no spiritual touch, it is useless. So the more you spiritualize the whole atmosphere, the more you become sufficient and happy. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for that purpose. People cannot understand it. They think that "These people are not working, simply chanting and dancing and eating." But that is our business. (laughter)
Bhagavān: But I think in one year they have done nicely. They have built a greenhouse and planted all the cultivated land.
Prabhupāda: No, they are working hard, there is no doubt about it.
Bhagavān: And the temple also, Deity worship and everything.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, things are going nicely. There is no doubt about it. And children should be given that much education—to read and write and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Bhagavān: The devotees are talking how nice it was to sit outside with you and chant and hear you speak tonight. I remember the last time I was in New Vrindaban many years ago, when I first became a devotee. You were sitting outside, giving some lecture, series of lectures on Vyāsadeva and the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, I like this life, from my very childhood. And on our roof there were trees, plants, flower plants, and... My grandmother, she... We, all grandchildren used to water it. So downstairs we took water in, what is called? A jhāri?
Prabhupāda: Ah. In East Germany also, they have placed order. So this is joining. Just like for us, if you bring any other literature, we throw it away immediately. We take it as useless. Actually it is. We have nothing to learn from them, anything. All bogus. Either he's scientist or astronomer, or..., we know they are talking all bogus things. There may be some truth. Even that truth is there when a child speaks, there is some truth. When a child speaks to his parents, there is some truth, otherwise where is the question of talking? So little portion truth is there, everywhere. But when they talk of big, big things—they are going to Mars and scratching sand there—that we don't believe. That we don't believe. When they talk of this tape recorder, some electronic machine, joining together and it is working, that much care you can take. But when you speak of so many things, that millions of years there were germs and germination, now they are trying to come out, and it is all vacant—these are all bogus, we don't accept. Talking too much. In Bengal it is called yatap(?) When the same child speaks something too much, "Ah, stop." To the extent of his capacity, that's all right. But if you talk more than that, then you are rascal. So they are doing that now. Because they have got some electronic success, or they have manufactured some jet plane, or these, they are now thinking "Now we have owned over the whole world situation." That is nonsense. They are thinking like that: "Now we have control over the world world." That is yatam,(?) speaking more than their capacity. And so far we are concerned, we don't talk anything, except what is mentioned in the books. That's all. We remain always foolish. And as foolish men, we do not talk. We simply talk what is mentioned by Vyāsadeva, by Śukadeva Gosvāmī. That's all. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu... These things have been discussed in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam by Prahlāda Mahārāja, that in the material world, the only pleasure is sex. There is no pleasure. Always working hard like asses, that's all, everyone. Not only in one. Life after life, life after life. This is material. And... (children outside yelling) So why they are here?
Prabhupāda: So beat them with shoes and when they protest, "Oh, it is chance, don't mind. It is by chance I am beating." (laughter)
Bhagavān: It seems they are struggling so hard for existence they do not have time to contemplate these simple things, working so hard.
Prabhupāda: So show the simple example that how by simple living and thinking of Kṛṣṇa, one can become perfect and happy.
Hari-śauri: People's minds are so much agitated by false desire that they can't appreciate anything. Real beauty they overlook, searching for something else.
Prabhupāda: My mother used to make puffed rice at home. So there is special rice available for making puffed rice. Either you can prepare at home or you can purchase in the market, special rice. So she was preparing nice puffed rice, very, very nice. In a sand pot. My mother was always engaged in making some food preparation. Some pickle, some chutney, and this puffed rice, or something else, something else, something else. Besides cooking for the family, she was being assisted by my sisters. Always palatable foodstuff. So many guests were there, and if son-in-law would come, they would specially prepare food for him. To receive guests, give them nice food to eat, prepare nice food for the family, this is the Indian pleasure. They are not very much, nowadays, for upkeep of the home, very... That, in their own way, they keep it very nicely. Every utensils, very cleansed, they are kept ready for use, some cloth. If you go in a poor man's home, but you'll find everything very neat and clean. Ask these gṛhasthas to keep their home very neat and clean. Are they keeping?
Bhagavān: Yes.
Prabhupāda: One gentleman has joined, he has paid five thousand dollars. His whole family has joined.
Harikeśa: Just now? That's nice.
Bhagavān: His wife's the same too.
Harikeśa: Oh? (break)
Bhagavān: I wanted to get Kṛṣṇa book published while you are here. So I really pushed our printer to work very hard. I told him, "But the thing is, I have no money to pay you right now," because we had just printed Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. He said, "You try to give me five percent down and I'll give you eight months' credit."
Prabhupāda: Ācchā. (laughs)
Bhagavān: So I didn't have the money because we were fixing up. So one girl joined, and she gave eight thousand dollars.
Prabhupāda: And what is the whole bill?
Bhagavān: That was..., the whole bill was about forty-five thousand dollars. So that was sufficient for the downpayment.
Prabhupāda: It is about more than ten percent. He wants five percent.
Bhagavān: But I gave him. (end)
Pradyumna: So we analyze the material body is temporary, it's no good anyways, then if, even if someone says, "Well, it may be temporary, but in this life we can get something out of it," then we analyze that other people are taking that. The wife is taking that, the children are taking that.
Prabhupāda: No, we should first of all fix up what is our business. People have taken this, that to maintain the body, to maintain the family, to earn money and protect it, these have become their business. They do not know anything else. The whole world is going on on this platform. Nationwise, communitywise, and everything. Other countries have developed, now the Shah is trying to develop equally. But what is the aim of development? The same—motorcar and accident. That they do not know. "No. They have got motorcar. I must have motorcar." But what is the aim? Same aim. Meet accident and die. They do not know what is the aim of life. Na te viduḥ. They do not know it. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are thinking that by adjusting this material way of life they'll be happy, that's all. This is ignorance. The whole civilization is wrong because they do not know what is the aim of life. That is the fault. If they know the aim of life, then it is all right. You live comfortably. There is no... Who asks you that you live discomfortably? You live comfortably. But you must know the aim of life. That they do not know. Ask anybody what is the aim, why you are working so hard, why you are maintaining family, why you are maintaining body, what is the aim of your life? That they do not know. (break) ...control. These things are growing on account of water. If there is no water how they will grow? So it is not in the hands of the scientists. It is in the hands of God. (end)
Prabhupāda: That's very good opportunity. Bring more Americans and start this movement nicely. Not necessarily that we have to establish a temple. We want to preach our philosophy. That is most important. Bhāgavata-mārga. There are two ways, bhāgavata-mārga and pāñcarātriki. The bhāgavata-mārga is more important than pāñcarātriki. Pāñcarātriki is Deity worship. So do you meet many intelligent men here? No. Not very.
Dayānanda: Some intelligent. People are working very hard for money, and they're very materialistic.
Prabhupāda: That is everywhere in the eastern part of the world. They are after money.
Dayānanda: And the foreigners who come here also, they are materialistic also.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere materialistic. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). Spiritualistic means siddhi, perfection. Who cares for perfection? Bring money and enjoy. That's all. Who cares for perfection? They do not know what is perfection. They think that you get money, you live comfortably as far as possible, and after death, everything's finished. Is it not? This is the philosophy. Who cares to know that there is life after death and better life, better planet, better world? This is not at all good, it is full of miseries. They are driving all day, car, but they do not think it is tiresome. They think it is pleasure. To have a car and drive whole day, they do not feel that is tiresome. They think "I have got a car, I'm driving, people are seeing. It is pleasure."
Prabhupāda: We have got three platforms, generally. Material platform divided into two-gross and subtle, and there is spiritual platform. The body is material platform, divided into two, gross and subtle. And then if you are fortunate enough to come to the spiritual platform, then your life is successful. So the karmīs generally... Just like we see in the city, they are all busy, working very hard. They are on the gross material platform. And then next class, just like scientist, poet, philosopher, they are in the subtle platform. And above them, there are persons who are simply interested in spiritual understanding. They are on the spiritual platform. So according to the platform, there are thoughts and activities also. Your question is what is about these so many things. So first of all you have to understand in which platform he is situated. Then his activities are ascertained. If you are in the material platform, doing some business, making some profit, and if you bring there question—"What is this, use of material profit, this body is temporary, why I am..."—then your material activities will be diminished.(?) So we have to understand first of all what is our actual objective. And then if we stand in that platform, then our life is successful.
Hari-śauri: I'm not feeling sleepy anyway.
Prabhupāda: Meditating.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Hari-śauri Prabhu works very hard, Śrīla Prabhupāda. He's a very first-class servant.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (japa)
Dayānanda: Prabhupāda, they say that the problem is that, the problem of the world is that humanity should be one, everyone should think of things as belonging to humanity and that religion and different governments have made humanity sectarian and divided up.
Prabhupāda: No, no. We are not such kind of religionist. We say that everything belongs to God and everyone is son of God. We don't say like that.
Dayānanda: But they say we don't believe in God, we believe in humanity.
Prabhupāda: What is the difference?
Dayānanda: The difference is that humanity is tangible, it's something we can understand, but God we cannot understand.
Prabhupāda: So we are also tangible, but we are more advanced. How you can, wherefrom the humanity came, the next question will be. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Wherefrom the human being came, hm? Do little.
Prabhupāda: (to other guest) Oh, you are going? Thank you very much. (Bengali) (long pause)
Devotee (1): The idea is that if you work hard and try to please Kṛṣṇa, then you'll get a temple.
Guest: Yes.
Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda arrived in New York with only... Eight dollars? How many dollars you had when you arrived in New York?
Prabhupāda: Seven dollars. (laughter)
Devotee (1): Seven dollars.
Dayānanda: But I think you got that from selling the Bhāgavatams.
Prabhupāda: That extra. We brought from India seven dollars. At that time the exchange was four rupees, eight annas. And you were not allowed to take more than forty rupees. That is same now. So I wanted to sell one set of books to the captain, Mr. Pandia. So he gave me twenty dollars in exchange, three books. I was confident Kṛṣṇa was there, (indistinct) seven dollars. (Hindi)... (break) ...strongly by chance?
Devotee (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Oh, you are going? Thank you very much. Utsāhān dhairyāt...
Nava-yauvana: So we are here, if we work hard and try to please Kṛṣṇa, then there we will get a temple. Śrīla Prabhupāda arrived in New York with only eight dollars? Forty dollars? How many dollars you had when you arrived in New York?
Prabhupāda: Seven dollars.
Nava-yauvana: Seven dollars.
Dayānanda: I think you got that from selling Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: No, that extra. I brought from India seven dollars. At that time the exchange was four rupees, eight annas. So they would not allow to take more than forty rupees. That is sufficient. So I wanted to sell one set of books to the captain, Mr. Pandiya. So he gave me twenty dollars in exchange of three books. I was confident Kṛṣṇa was there seven dollars. (end)
Prabhupāda: TV, yes.
Harikeśa: How can you enjoy without TV?
Prabhupāda: Yes, how can you waste your time?
Nava-yauvana: Their reason, they say, is because we have to work so hard all day, then we have to try to forget, watch the television.
Prabhupāda: Why should you work? If you have to forget, why should you take such nonsense things that you have to forget again? Why not chant Hare Kṛṣṇa? Even the child does not forget. He's chanting. Take such things that you'll enjoy. The more you do not forget, you more enjoy. Why should you take up something that you have to forget? This is rascal.
Nava-yauvana: Karmīs cannot understand.
Prabhupāda: There is a story like this. A man is sitting. His friend came, "Why you are sitting idly?" "What shall I do?" "Work." "Why shall I work?" "You'll get money." "What shall I do with the money?" "Then you'll be able to sit peacefully and eat." "I'm doing that. I'm already doing that." I'm peacefully sitting and eating. Why shall I go and work? If that is the ultimate end, that I shall peacefully sit down and eat, I am doing that. Why shall I go and work?
Harikeśa: What about when it gets cold?
Prabhupāda: That you again "if." You are bringing some condition. For the present time, sitting very peacefully and haven't got to work. Why you are insisting me to work? If this is the goal, to sit peacefully and eat, I'm doing that.
Indian Doctor: (laughter) By any way.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is modern civilization. Big man, big rich man means bring money some way or other. This is big man. This is Kali-yuga. Because if you have got money, you have got respect, you have got honor, you are recognized. So therefore they are after money. Bring money, that's all right. When I shall get money, I may have done black money, force money, this money, nobody will remember it. Bas. This is modern civilization. Bring money and enjoy sense. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). What for it is, struggle so much working hard? Yad indriya-prītaya. Only for the satisfaction of the senses. They have no other ambition. Because most of them, they do not believe there is next life. Most of them, 99.9 percent, they do not believe. Big, big professor, I have talked with so many big, big men in Europe. They have no... Our leaders also. The Munshi, he did not believe in the next life.
Gargamuni: And then take out.
Prabhupāda: Yes, then do that. And we are inviting everyone. We have no distinction. Anyone can come to the park. Convince them. (continued on another tape) "Come on! Take prasādam "sumptuously." They'll be satisfied. They are hungry. Actually they are hungry, poorly paid, capitalist and worker. The trouble is, capitalists, they are taking all the profit, and they are enjoying life in wine and women. Naturally the worker will see that "Why? We are working so hard, and they are making profit, and they are enjoying, and we do not live in a very nice house. It is a slum." Naturally they will be envious. If the capitalists spend the money for Kṛṣṇa consciousness—in each and every factory they hold festivals and give them eatables like anything everything will be successful.
Prabhupāda: Part of the money is contribution for construction of my house. Ten thousand. Ten thousand dollars?
Jayapatākā: Ten thousand dollars I think. Jayatīrtha mentioned.
Prabhupāda: I'm writing one letter to the governor that I work hard, I print my books and they are selling, and if I bring the money to construct temple, why people are envious? What is the wrong there? Rather, I should be encouraged that I am bringing so much money in India, foreign exchange, by my hard labor. So why they are envious? Why... I have sent this to the governor.
Jayapatākā: To the governor?
Prabhupāda: Governor, Mr. Chandra Reddy. "Why, wherefrom they are getting money, where, why?" That is my very, very hard labor, that's all. Is it wrong if a man works hard and gets money in foreign country and bring in India?
Prabhupāda: It is a great credit that I am selling my books and bringing ten lakhs of rupees from foreign country in India.
Krishna Modi: That we will speak. And his mind is very clear. Brahmānanda his mind is very clear, very clear, and he is appreciating. And he is in our favor 100%.
Prabhupāda: Even not in our favor. I am working hard in foreign countries and bringing money to India. You should give us some credit. But instead of giving credit, I am being criticized in the Parliament.
Krishna Modi: They are putting like this. They are putting this case like that, that foreign money is coming here to advertise the American embassies, like that. They are that talking like that.
Prabhupāda: They may talk nonsense, but this is the fact. This is the fact. I have got my Book Trust Fund and I've advised regularly to send eight lakhs of rupees per month. That is being spent in Bombay, in... I'm not collecting from here.
Krishna Modi: Ah, what is politics?
Prabhupāda: So this is the real platform of United Nation. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati samaḥ sarveṣu (BG 18.54). At that time samaḥ sarveṣu. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. They have no demand. These boys they are working so hard. They never ask a single paisa from me. It is not possible for me to pay these foreigners as salaried man. That is not possible. They get minimum four thousand rupees minimum. Minimum salary America is $400 dollars. That means four thousand rupees. So and they are getting $800, $1200, $2000. And poverty is unknown in America. They do not know what is poverty. I see here the milk they are standing in block. You can get as much milk as you want anywhere you go, any shop you go you take immediately. Anything. Building materials. You simply order to the suppliers, immediately everything is there.
Prabhupāda: Sikhs are very brave. They're martial. And another martial race, Jats. They are kṣatriyas. Oh, they can fight... When Britishers possessed India they organized this military with Sikhs especially, Jats, and Gurkhas. And they expanded their empire, Burma, Ceylon, Africa, all these British Empire possessions. And not only that, they fought two big world wars with these Sikhs soldiers. They conquered over this Mesopotamia, Middle East.
Caraṇāravindam: They worked so hard. It's a pity they weren't doing it for Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: They like military. They want military jobs. Very kṣatriya spirit.
Caraṇāravindam: They collected so much, but they lost it because they didn't give it to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Ah, their bad policy that they wanted India for Britishers' benefit. That is not duty of the government. Government should be for the welfare of the people. Then that government will continue. But they exploited the Indian people for the benefit of their own countrymen. That is the failure. That policy was not good. Therefore they finished within two hundred years. They began their ruling 1775, like that. And 1947... Not even two hundred years.
Prabhupāda: Budget is there. Hundred rupees per head. Fifty men if you keep, it is five thousand.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We can keep less. We don't want fifty.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. It will be less. But I'm prepared to pay you five thousand rupees for fifty men. Not more than that. That I can pay. You do not require to collect. You sit down. But work hard here. Not that eating, sleeping. No. That cannot be. That cannot be done. They must be engaged twenty-four hours. That is wanted. It is not a lazy free hotel. Anyone lives, he must be engaged twenty-four hours. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). If he has no work, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa here. That should be done.
Akṣayānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda? We have this twenty-four kīrtana. I've requested everyone who comes to do at least one hour per day.
Prabhupāda: There is no question. This is the condition. If you agree, then stay here. Otherwise, you go to Rādhā-kuṇḍa.
Akṣayānanda: Also visiting devotees should do that too. Anyone who comes here should do that.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Everyone.
Prabhupāda: You must make a rule.
Prabhupāda: I have seen. Some of them eat so much I am surprised.
Akṣayānanda: But the ones who eat that much, they are the ones who are always sick. They're the ones.
Prabhupāda: Overeating means sick.
Hari-śauri: I used to eat a lot but I used to burn it all off.
Akṣayānanda: They don't know if you eat a lot and then work very hard, that's all right. But they eat a lot and then sleep a lot, as Mahārāja said. If they would simply work. Eat a lot, all right, but then work very hard. Then it's all digested.
Hari-śauri: They eat a lot at midday and then they're useless for the rest of the day. Sleep two or three hours in the afternoon and then stagger out for ārati.
Akṣayānanda: Now they eat in the morning.
Prabhupāda: So, how to manage this? It is very difficult.
Akṣayānanda: I thought it was better when they were eating at noon. At least they'd work before they ate, work before eating. But I don't know. But even then the thing wasn't going any better.
Hari-śauri: I've found if you want things to go on, you have to make them do it. That's all. Because they don't have sufficient realization to volunteer to work.
Prabhupāda: They have to be... One man say, "You come here, you do this, you do this." Then it will be done. The temple commander must be a very able man.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) better, I was seeing that. And every page Kṛṣṇa. There is Kṛṣṇa. Every page, there is Kṛṣṇa. Similarly that happened in Germany. I told them. "It is very good that Hare Kṛṣṇa." Hare Kṛṣṇa. (laughing) We are known as Kṛṣṇas. They call us Kṛṣṇas. You put yourselves "Kṛṣṇians." They are Christians and we are Kṛṣṇians. And actually from Kṛṣṇian, the Christian has come. Yes. Kṛṣṇa, ah, Kristo, there is Greek word and Kristo, is broken spelling of Kṛṣṇa. In India we say one is, one name say is Kṛṣṇa, at least in Bengali we say Kṛṣṭa. Kṛṣṭa. This Kṛṣṭa word is come Kṛṣṇa. And from Kṛṣṭa, Christ has come. This is original root, Kṛṣṇa. So we have to fight, here is a chance for fighting, so why they're afraid?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we just have to work hard on getting this altogether.
Prabhupāda: You have to fight. Keeping our principles strictly. Yuddhyasva mām anusmara (BG 8.7). We should not be afraid to fight. And it is, there are Indians... It is not the Indians (indistinct). Now Indians and Americans should join for fighting on behalf of Kṛṣṇa. Then it will be successful. How they can say it is not genuine movement. Other so-called yogis swamis, they may be rascal but this is not the rascaldom. It is...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They are saying, they are saying we are not Hindus.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Hari-śauri: Intelligence is something you possess.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So? (break)
Hari-śauri: "Brainwashing: clearing the mind of established ideas by persistent suggestion and indoctrination."
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) That is... We are doing that. They are under the impression, "Work hard, earn money, and enjoy life." We say, "No. Don't work hard for sense gratification but work hard for self-realization." Indoctrine.
Hari-śauri: Well, any form of education is indoctrination.
Prabhupāda: Indoctrinization. Yes. Any kind of education is...
Hari-śauri: Whatever you teach someone, you teach according to whatever you see as the correct value.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The child goes to the school. His brain is packed up: "I shall play all day." He likes to play but it is indoctrinization that "No, you should read. You must become graduate."
Prabhupāda: You cannot expect that everyone is brāhmaṇa. No. He has got śūdra mentality, so let him till the ground for Kṛṣṇa. Svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya. He is fit for tilling so let him till and produce grain for Kṛṣṇa.
Jagadīśa: Hyderabad?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Hard work. He should be given hard work. This gurukula is for high, high class brāhmaṇa, kṣatriyas, not for the vaiśyas and śūdras. (man laughs in background) No, everyone is required for Kṛṣṇa's service, but there... That I was describing today. There must be division. Don't put horse before a cart.
Pradyumna: Race horse before the cart.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Pradyumna: Race horse before the...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that will not be nice.
Bhagatji: Varṇa-saṅkara.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (Hindi) Some of them are kṣatriyas and some of them... Like that. But that is not essential. That is all gone. Now, if one cannot take education, he can be used in farm work, a little hard work.
Jagadīśa: (name withheld) is another problem.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Jagadīśa: (name withheld), (name withheld)'s boy. He is only eight, but he is becoming like a street boy.
Prabhupāda: So let him go to farm working. Farm working is for suitable...
Bhagatji: He likes that. He'll play with cows. He likes dung.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Jagadīśa: He likes dung.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. Let him take care. He should take care. Therefore we must have all these engagement. He'll be encouraged to take care of the cows.
Prabhupāda: ...devotion, activities. Who can take more care than the father and the mother? So you combine together, make a batch of good character, ideal character in the whole world. There is no ideal character. Everyone is drunkard and meat-eater or woman-hunter. What is the civilization? Hog civilization. (break) ...civilization. Work hard, get some money, and spend it for intoxication, illicit sex. This is civilization. Is it not? They have no idea how to make civilized.
Devotee (1): I was hearing that before I left England there was some trouble in Scotland over the rules about the bars and drinking. And now they want to make a rule, a law, that the children can be allowed into the bars under their parents... They make it a big social...
Prabhupāda: They allow the children sit down. They take soda water and the father-mother drinking. I have seen it. They are learning from the father and mother from the begin...
Hari-śauri: My father used to... Every Sunday they used to go to the pub, and then for Sunday afternoon, as a special treat, they would all get..., we'd be given a glass of beer.
Prabhupāda: Just see. Father-mother take... Because they think it is civilization. Elderly boys, the father mother tell, "What is the wrong, illicit sex? Take woman, take car. Enjoy life." I have seen it. They know, "This is life. Why...?" Therefore they say, "Brainwash. This Swamiji is controlling their minds and brainwashing." That is their charge. Wash, ne. The brain should be operated, surgical to take out all rubbish things from the... It is called membrane?
Prabhupāda: Bechel (?). So we want so many men to live there nicely, to eat sumptuously, and preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I have seen while coming from Vṛndāvana to Delhi, hundreds and thousands of young men. They are going to the factories on cycle, coming from distant place, at least twenty miles, twenty-five miles, and it takes two hours to reach the factory or more than that. And there he works hard eight hours and then again goes back, two hours, three hours, on cycle. I do not know what kind of rest he takes. This is life. And if we request these young men that "You come here. You live here comfortably. You eat here sumptuously and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," they will not. Just see how unfortunate they are. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). This is Kali-yuga. All bad men, unfortunate and disturbed. This is the position. They will work so hard, they'll catch daily passenger trains, Calcutta, Bombay, I have seen. They are actually hanging, and some of them are falling down, lost life, and coming from hundred miles away. But still, if you ask him that "You come here. Live with us. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Even with your family you can come." We are doing that at Māyāpur. He will not. How strong sense gratification propensity is. This is position of Kali-yuga.
Prabhupāda: ...on our?
Mahāṁśa: Yes. This is all ours, all this.
Devotee (4): The government is making propaganda for hard work, so they should come and with hard work they can make nice temple from these rocks.
Prabhupāda: You show the example. They will see. (break) ...like it, eh? These boys?
Devotee (4): Oh, yes, very much.
Prabhupāda: Do you like it?
Boy (1): Yes, sir.
Prabhupāda: You? Young
Boy (2): Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Devotee: Not only the small boys. Some of the bigger boys, they also like.
Prabhupāda: No, it is very nice. They'll live.
Prabhupāda: You fill up the tank and by pumping through pipe, you distribute water.
Jagadīśa: The viaducts are already there.
Mahāṁśa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: If you have got water filled up in that tank, we can water so many lands. We shall spend for that. We shall... Pipe line, pumping. Here is so much land we can produce gur (?). But you have no brain. Produce gur, get money and spend it for Kṛṣṇa. This is wanted. Not simply planning and talking. The world is suffering for want of right planning. Otherwise, there is no question of suffering. Pūrṇam idam, complete it is, everything complete. That is the Vedic verse. Why (indistinct) ...incomplete means he's rascals. That supply (break) and still all right. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Kṛṣṇa does not want to see that we are starving for want of food. That He does not want to see. But because you have come to the material world, you have to work hard. Then you'll get your food. That is the material world. Śarīra-yātrāpi ca te na prasiddhyed akarmaṇaḥ, Kṛṣṇa says. Very... If you do not work, then you cannot get food. Simply work together. Sarva-kāma-dughā mahī. And you get from the land. You have got land. You get anything from the land. The land must be moist. Then you get everything. That we want to show. Hm, what do you say? Land is...
Mahāṁśa: Oh yes.
Tejas: We should also be careful because, about enmity also. Because I've lived in the villagers' houses for two years and I've seen in different cases where if an outsider is there, these Kerala people, they are also considered outsiders, these villagers, they regard them as being different. So they are actually even getting more requisites than the local people. We should try and encourage the local people in working. They may not in the beginning work so hard, but we should encourage them that this is their project.
Mahāṁśa: Local people will always be working because we will never have a staff to be enough for all our work. Like, we may have twenty, thirty families staying here, and I have seen that the people who are staying in these villages, they will not come and stay over here because they are staying just around here. They have their own house. They will come and work here, they will participate and everything but they won't come and stay here. They have their houses outside here. But the people from different villages, a little away, who have no home, who are helpless, they will come and stay and they will be very loyal. If we give them food and we give them clothing they will be very loyal to us. They will become like our full supporters.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Naturally. Naturally.
Prabhupāda: Not supreme. He says this is of the person, different ways of thinking. But everywhere He is stressing bhakti. Just like generally people are karmī. Karmīs. They are working hard. And he has made his plan. He has made his plan that, "In this way, I shall be happy." So throughout the whole world, the beginning from animals, lower than the man, and then men, different types of men... So manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi, every one of them, he is planning or he is thinking in different ways. So the animals, they cannot understand the master's answer. But in the human being, they are according to the mind, mental concoction and planning, there are four classes of men. One class is called karmī. They are thinking that by working hard and trying to find out my own way of happiness, they will be happy. This is called karmī. Without any knowledge, they are simply working. They are actually like the animals. The animals, the dog, is jumping, a few miles he is jumping. He is thinking that "By jumping I shall be happy." Or for the time being he may happy by jumping. And sometimes thinking otherwise. So karmīs, they do not know what is the actual aim of life. Out of many millions of persons, mostly they are karmīs. They do not know what is the actual aim of life. But they are devising different plans, that I shall be happy in this way." This is called karmī. He does not take the standard way of happiness. Then the next elevated person is jñānī. He thinks, ponders, that "I have worked so hard, but still I could not become happy." The jñānī. He searches out philosophically. Then next class, yogi. Yogi concentrates the mind to think over, "What is my problem? Why I am not happy? How he can become happy?" He is trying to, very soberly, to understand. Yoga means controlling the senses, and the master of the senses is the mind.
Mr. Malhotra: More a politician.
Prabhupāda: Yes, karmī means this how to enjoy this world. Whole life they have struggled how to enjoy this, how to enjoy myself, how to allow my men to enjoy. This is karmī platform. Everyone is doing that. Everyone is working hard for himself, for his family, and expand the family, for society, and expand the society, for the nation. Here is karmī plan. Gandhi, Birla they are all... There is no question of spiritual life.
Mr. Malhotra: Now this is the Kṛṣṇā River. You just see how small it is, and how big it becomes later on. In the rainy season this road is closed because this all water comes up, you know. Now it is just a small rivulet. This is Kṛṣṇā river. And it comes just opposite our place, from where it starts, from the mountain. Here is the place called Haya (?). This was also one of the biggest Sanskrit University in the older time like that of Teksasila. And Sarnatha, near Sarnatha, what is that place? Not Sarnatha, up in Bihar, that was also very big university, no?
Prabhupāda: Oh, Taksila.
Prabhupāda: Smoking gāñjā with a friend's hand because there is smell, so the friend's hand will smell. (Hindi) (laughter) This is going on. (Hindi)
Guest (1): There will be immediate protest the moment... This film has got the connotation that Hare Kṛṣṇa means... Now, these boys, by their own conduct and by their own hard work, whosoever has come into contact with them have realized that this is genuine and actually...
Prabhupāda: No, you see, something cheating which is going on for long time, to stop it, it will take some time.
Guest (1): Yes. Unless and until the people who are well-to-do...
Prabhupāda: We have got one little test. You can also use that.
Prabhupāda: But who is going to take the bhakti? He was going to take sense enjoyment.
Guest (1): That bhakti is a tapa itself. That bhakti is amongst the tapas.
Prabhupāda: Yes, bhakti means tapasya. Just like they are in the bhakti line. They are doing tapasya. They are rising early in the morning, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, observing maṅgala-ārati, no meat-eating, no illicit sex, no intoxication, so many things. It is tapasya. Whole thing is tapasya, tapaḥ, because by this tapasya the contamination of the soul will be cured. Then, if he understands Kṛṣṇa, then he is transferred to the spiritual world. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). He does not come again to accept the material body, and he permanently lives in the spiritual world. That is perfection. The modern civilization, they do not know all these things. They are misguiding that "You earn to your best extent. Work very hard like hogs." And there is advertisement "Work hard. The next (?)." They are pulling one trailer, rickshaw, still, their leaders are advising, "Work hard. Work still more hard." A human being is pulling on trailer and rickshaw, and still hard work. And that rascal does not know that this hard work like hogs and dogs will not make the solution. But they are enthusing, "Yes, work hard. Be stout and strong, as if becoming stout and strong will save him. That's not possible.
Prabhupāda: That every road is there. We have no such thing. (Hindi) But he's not recognized in... Wherefrom he has got the advertisement that in America he has done tremendous work. What they have done?
Girirāja: The government may like to popularize him because he preached the cult of "work hard."
Prabhupāda: What "work hard" he has... (indistinct)
Devotee: Other day one man was telling me they bought two of your Bhāgavatams, Ramakrishna Mission. He said that one Ranganath Swami from South India, from Hyderabad was lecturing there but he was... When he was lecturing he had your Bhāgavatam, First Canto, Part One in his hand and he was speaking from there. (laughter) I said it is very good.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Give him prasāda. (Hindi)
Devotee: Many ācāryas, they imitate you. They read your books and take some of this part and what is useful for them they use on their lecture. How we should stop them? (break)
Hari-śauri: At least part of the lecture's going to be all right.
Prabhupāda: They cannot utilize my writing in their favor.
Prabhupāda: All right. No, no, why you (indistinct). Young man... (break) ...the world... (break) (laughs) So similarly, if one is giving very important service, then even if there is some faulty thing, excuse. Service is so important. So in the Western country the woman can give very good service. Api cet sudarācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). This, our book distribution is the most important task in our society. Therefore I am giving so much stress and I am working so hard on this. Because this is my life and soul according to the order of my Guru Mahārāja. And by his grace it is to some extent successful. And I took it seriously. I take it seriously still now. That is my life and soul. I never tried in India to construct big temples or even in your country we didn't. I never tried. But I was selling personally books. That is the history. Sometimes they are criticizing, "What kind of sannyāsī? He is doing book business." (laughs) The other day that, what is his name? Bachu Hai came. Bachu Hai Dresswalla. You know him?
Girirāja: I know one Madanlal Dresswalla.
Prabhupāda: I think this is... There are two, three Dresswalla in Bhuvaneśvara.
Girirāja: Well, what I have now.
Prabhupāda: And what you have got? You are asking that "I require now food." That means you have nothing. You have no food even. (aside:) Oh, you have brought it very quickly. Very nice. All right. (break) Live very comfortably, eat very comfortably and work. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Simply wasting time, the civilization... śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Working hard and wasting valuable time of... Misguided. Andhā yathāndhair upanīya... When I think of their position... So every Vaiṣṇava should be para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. So you like it?
Hari-śauri: For thirty paisa it's very good. For the price it's very good.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, it's very good in other ways, full color. We're going to sell it for a rupee, and...
Prabhupāda: Kṛpāmbudhir yas tam ahaṁ prapadye (CC Madhya 6.254). The unhappy for the unhappiness of others. They love them, unhappy without Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is a fact. The rascal may agree or not agree. That's a fact. Ghostly haunted.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Prasāda also.
Prabhupāda: No, bring here. Jaya.
CID Chief: Just touch my hand, that's all, and make me cure bodily...
Prabhupāda: Thank you. Thank you. You come whenever you find time.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He comes regularly.
CID Chief: I was longing to come, so today I came. It's my great fortune that...
Prabhupāda: No... That. Even as CID officer, you can note. This is my business. I am working hard, producing these books, selling, and the telegram you see, and bringing that money here. So if you thing that I am still faulty, then what can I do?
CID Chief: From the beginning I have made it clear that I come here to get some mental peace.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We have Chinese Bhagavad-gītā. Actually Trivikrama Swami has just come. He's been preaching in Taiwan. (breaks) (end)
Girirāja: Of course that is our business to construct temples.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Temple (indistinct). Temple means preaching center. This Gurukula I have made for temple (indistinct) center. Now they have made it but that (indistinct). Purpose is, that whole world in the neophyte stage, they will (indistinct), man-manā bhava mad..., think of Kṛṣṇa, offering obeisances, offer (indistinct) from the persons maintaining the temple (indistinct). Therefore they do not like that a temple should be constructed, it is waste of... (indistinct) ...must be engaged to work hard, produce money and enjoy sense gratification. Hog civilization. We are restricting that "Don't work hard like hog and dog or animals, just satisfy your minimal necessities of life, save time and (indistinct) spiritual understanding. This is our mission. Their mission is, "What is this nonsense, spiritual understanding? Simply some sentiment, waste of time. Produce, enjoy, invent so many things for sense gratification." Western civilization. And this is very attractive to the rākṣasa class. Eat, drink, be merry and enjoy. This is the rākṣasa mentality. As soon as there is television, or similar invention, they become very much enthused. They purchase and sitting down, they waste their time.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. What he will do, more payment? (?) Then he will kill. This sex life in this material world is so strong, even in the heavenly planets. Big, big ṛṣis. Sex life with animals also there is... Sex life is so strong. Man cohabiting with animal. It makes blind. Vyāsadeva made one of her (his) students pregnant, what to speak of ourselves. Vyāsadeva was born, Satyavatī. She was low class. Although she was born by a king, but her mother was a low-class fisherwoman. And the fisherman raised her as daughter. And Parāśara Muni became attracted. And Vyāsadeva was born. Sex affairs, just see, in the highest circle. Bṛhaspati, the spiritual master of the devatās, he became so much mad for his brother's wife who was pregnant, and forcibly they had sex. Just see. These are examples. Brahmā became attracted with his daughter. Lord Śiva became attracted with the beauty of Mohinī-mūrti, even in the presence of his wife. So this sex life can be controlled only by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. Otherwise there is no... The Bhāgavata has discussed all this because in this material world there is no escape unless we become Kṛṣṇa conscious, from the sex impulse. It is not possible. Yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa... When one is fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he'll reject all this nonsense: "What is this?" Bhavati mukha-vikāraḥ suṣṭhu. He'll spite (spit): "Eh! Get out. Is that enjoyment?" It is possible for a Kṛṣṇa conscious... No other can do it. And that is the bondage. He'll have to work hard for maintaining sex issues. And so long you are bound up by the karmas, you have to accept another body and then continue. Who knows this how we are bound up and conditioned? If you talk in the modern society they will laugh: "What nonsense this man is... 'By sex life one becomes conditioned.' " They cannot understand. Hare Kṛṣṇa... (japa)
Prabhupāda: Yes. I'll give money...
Mr. Asnani: I'll distribute your papers to the Muhammadans in their language, Marwati.(?)
Prabhupāda: Let them chant, dance, and take prasāda, go away. That's all. No philosophy. Everyone will come. Chant, dance, and take prasādam. And we shall work hard for this maintaining the establishment. We are recognized beggars. We can beg. Where is anxiety? If we go to a rich man, that "I want some money for this purpose," they will pay. Where is the question of scarcity of money? You cannot say there is no money. A sannyāsī can go anywhere: "Give me some money. I want to do this." They are meant for begging. And in India still... Why India? Everywhere. I am speaking of India. Still now, although India is so poverty-stricken and materialized, if a sannyāsī goes to beg something, nobody will refuse. Nobody will refuse, especially in the village. They'll never refuse. "Baba, (Hindi)." He'll give. Actually our āśramas are maintained by begging mūrti. Mūrti... You... Hundred houses, hundred mūrti. Then you can...
Mr. Asnani: Mūrti means they're so much helpful of...
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Prabhupāda: Three thousand lost.
Dr. Patel: Because the prices was so down, you see, and fertilizer they are selling at a very high rate. Before it was available, a bag, for fifty rupees or fifty-one. Now it is more than eleven-ten. They don't want that a man in the city should be employed for less than five rupees a day. It's very expensive. And they don't work also. They used to work very hard in ancient times. Now they come at ten o'clock, go at five. Before they used to come early morning at six, seven o'clock and work up til five in the evening, and you used to feed them afternoon.
Gurudāsa: Use gobar instead of...
Dr. Patel: No, gobar is not that much available.
Gurudāsa: Gobar means cows. Get a cow.
Dr. Patel: We use gobar. All of us keep cows. But there is not sufficient for that.
Gurudāsa: You can eat six thousand rupees' worth of rice yourself?
Dr. Patel: No, you can't. You have in the market. No, I cannot eat even this much because I can't bring it here to Bombay. There is a barrier. You can't export from one place to another. This is the government. And our rice is just like the (indistinct) quality.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: You go and eat there. (laughter)
Trivikrama: Everyone judges others from their own standard.
Prabhupāda: They're surprised, the neighboring people around our temple, "How do you live so comfortably? You have got so many cars and so nice house." But they are working hard like hogs and dogs and we are getting money without doing anything. They are envious.
Trivikrama: We invite them to come and join us.
Prabhupāda: That they will not. Why there? Here also. They are envious for this Hare Kṛṣṇa, but when you call, "You come and live here," that they will avoid. They're envious of my opulence, and when I say, invite, "You come also and join," "No. I'll rot as hog. That's all. I prefer this hoggish life."
Trivikrama: And the she-hog.
Dr. Patel: This will create a sort of a turmoil...
Prabhupāda: It has already created.
Prabhupāda: Heavy tax.
Haṁsadūta: We don't pay them anything. They come to us.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are getting advertise, publicity, paying nothing. This is our profit.
Rāmeśvara: We still have to work very hard to defeat them.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is necessary. You don't sleep. Never Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna that "I am your friend. I am God. You sleep here. (laughter) I'll do everything." No! "You must fight." That is wanted. Yuddhyasva mām anusmara: (BG 8.7) "You fight and remember Me. Then I'll do everything." This is an opportunity of remembering Kṛṣṇa always—"Kṛṣṇa, save us." (break) So what are these pictures? Against us?
Rāmeśvara: Yes. This shows that if they kidnap you and they convince you to give up your belief in God, you will be very happy. You will have nice girlfriend. You will be very happy.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). This material world means this sex. That is happiness. And we are saying, "Don't enjoy this happiness like hogs." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). "This kind of happiness available in the hog's life, dog's life. Why you are anxious for this happiness?" This is our philosophy. Real happiness? Tapo divyam: just undergo some austerity for attaining Kṛṣṇa. This is our.... How they will understand it? Therefore they are thinking, "Unless there is brainwash, how this philosophy is being preached?" Just opposite. They are thinking, "This is happiness," and we are condemning, "This is happiness of the hogs." Actually that is.... Hog is also enjoying that sex without any discrimination whether it is mother or sister or daughter. That is going on. Sex must be there. It doesn't matter who is. This is the world's position, hog civilization. Why a person is condemned as hog, especially in India? He's our "suar kavaca." Why? The hog has no discrimination of sex. No animal has got, especially this hog. You'll find a study, that one side, drinking the milk, and next, plies over him. Cannot reach. Still, hog wants.... Small kiddies for sex. That sex desire is so strong from the very beginning of.... And no sense that "It is my mother."
Hari-śauri: Yes, I've seen that in Vṛndāvana.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Nature's study gives the... And therefore Bhāgavata gives the example: "Don't work so hard simply for hog civilization." So if we use this word—it is very, very harsh for the Western people—"It is the hog civilization," actually it is so. But you cannot say. Satyaṁ priyaṁ vada... Unless it is palatable, you cannot say straight. That is... They take it seriously that "You are criticizing our mode of life." Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Dr. Patel enters) Aiye, aiye, aiye. (Hindi—"Please come in")
Dr. Patel: You're not going to walk upstairs?
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is not yet six.
Dr. Patel: I did not go for a walk today.
Prabhupāda: Oh. You want to go to Māgha Mela? Er...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Kumbhamela?
Dr. Patel: See, the thing is I am prepared to come, but difficulty would be to come back.
Prabhupāda: Why?
Dr. Patel: I would not stay all the time that you are there.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We can help him get a ticket, because we have a letter of introduction from a very big Central Railway officer for the chief man in Allahabad at the Central Railway. He got us the tickets.
Prabhupāda: Or let us go by car.
Guest (10): What's the difference between grace and mercy?
Prabhupāda: Grace means he'll willingly give you mercy, and mercy means you ask for mercy. Kṛpa-siddha. Sādhana-siddha and kṛpa-siddha. You are trying to earn one lakh of rupees—that is sādhana. But if somebody is gracious he can give you: "Take one lakh of rupees. Don't work hard." That is grace. That is kṛpa. You are ambitious for one lakh of rupees or somebody graciously give you: "All right, take." There are many persons. So that is grace. Otherwise, you earn by your hard labor. That is sādhana. Similarly, by association, by sādhana-bhakti, you attain perfection, and by grace also, you can attain perfection. Two ways. So those who are kṛpa-siddha, they are more fortunate. (Hindi) Preach this Bhagavad-gītā as it is. People will be benefited. You'll be benefited. Don't make unnecessary interpretation, misguide others and spoil your own life. That is very unfortunate. What is the difficulty to accept Bhagavad-gītā? There is no difficulty. Unfortunately we interpret in different way and take it other way. So our little attempt is to spread Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and whatever it may be, it is being accepted in the Western countries. Not by all. But the people in general, now the... Feeling the weight, they have now began opposing.
Prabhupāda: So it is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. "You can do all kinds of opposition, but we shall go forward. The caravan will pass. You may bark." So take all these things as Kṛṣṇa's mercies and engage more enthusiastically. Why should we be defeated? Yuddhyasva mām anusmara (BG 8.7). Just remember Kṛṣṇa and fight. Bas. Fighting is... This material world is fighting. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). The karṣati is struggle, but struggle for Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection. That's all
Rāmeśvara: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Thank you. Work very hard for Kṛṣṇa one life.
Rāmeśvara: You may like to see these, so I can leave them here?
Prabhupāda: I have heard it. Śruta. It is śuśruma.
Rāmeśvara: When these come out, I frame them on my wall.
Prabhupāda: Our method is iti śuśruma: "I have heard it." That's all. (end)
Satsvarūpa: There is a song, "How are you going to keep them on the farm after they've seen Paris?" They don't want to go back.
Prabhupāda: Ah. So much land sitting. Huge land is lying vacant, and they are complaining, "Orissa is poor. Please..." Why poor? Why don't you work? You must remain poor. You do not produce your food. Kuyoginaṁ kuśam upaiti lakṣmiṇī.(?) If you work hard, Lakṣmī will come. Our institution is working so hard, all our devotees. Therefore we have no scarcity. We are not bābājīs, taking a mala and smoking bidi. "I do not go beyond Vṛndāvana." Rascal, loitering and associating with so many women, and they have become puffed-up, paramahaṁsas, Rūpa Gosvāmī, imitation Rūpa Gosvāmī. Only a loincloth of Rūpa Gosvāmī. No education, no book writing, no going out of Vṛndāvana, begging. And therefore government's capturing them and giving this injection. What is that? Sterilization. Yes, just see. So many illegal children are born by these women. Bhajana. Bhajana kara. One bābājī has at least three women, four women. That's all.
Gurukṛpa: In America they can say, "We have enough food. We have no shortage."
Prabhupāda: We are not thinking "We have." We are thinking how the human society is having.
Satsvarūpa: Well, they say "Let everyone help himself. We're taking care of ourselves."
Prabhupāda: But why not you? What is your humanity?
Gurukṛpa: So they say, "We work hard, and then they, they sit back."
Prabhupāda: So why do you make...? Who...? Who do you mean by "we"? It is, everything, belonging to Kṛṣṇa. You have plundered Kṛṣṇa's property. You won't allow others to come in. The Chinese, the Indians, they are congested. Why? What do you mean by "we"? It is your father's property? You have stolen Kṛṣṇa's property.
Gurukṛpa: One may say, "But I myself work hard. Should I support the man who is lazy, doing nothing? Some are lazy. Should I work hard?"
Prabhupāda: Well, that is... If you are humanitarian, you are working for humanity, and why don't you teach them? Why do you not give the opportunity. What is the missionary? You have got so many missionaries. Why don't you feed them by giving them opportunity. They want. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). That is Vaiṣṇava. Engage everything, everyone, to good work. That is missionary. "We, you..." There is no such question, "we." We combining together, that is "we." We are all Kṛṣṇa's sons. Harer nāma, harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). Their whole philosophy is... Oh, it is very nice beach. All mango trees... Don't think in national terms. That is very heinous.
Hari-śauri: You said in that article in the BTG that women's liberation means that they get more exploited.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The giving them bluff that "You become liberated" means "We shall exploit you, young girls." This is the idea behind. Because the karmīs, they want sex, young girls, and they get energy to work. The Europeans, Americans, they work so hard. They get energy from new, new girls. This is psychology, Therefore they work like hogs and dogs. Dog civilization. Hog civilization. Because the hog has no restriction, either mother, sister, or anyone, "Come on." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājām..., kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This civilization is for the hogs, to take energy by sex with mother, sister, and anyone, and work hard. It is stated in the Bhāgavata. I have not manufactured. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). And here is the civilization. Tapo divyam. Be brahmacārī, undergo austerities and rectify your, this conditioned life, birth and death. This is human civilization. Why you are under birth and death? One life remain brahmacārī and solve all the question. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Teach them, these rascals—they are accusing, "brainwashing"—that this is civilization. It is not civilization to work hard like hogs and dogs and have sex enjoyment. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Hari-śauri: The thing is the parents are not qualified to give any guidance any more either.
Prabhupāda: Qualified, that is not very difficult. For the girl, find out a boy who is hard worker or a little educated. Bas. That's all. That was the selection. Then fortune. You give a daughter under the care of the boy who can work hard. That's all. They then will earn their livelihood. Even there is no education, a hard worker will do. A boy, as soon as has got the sense that "I have got a wife to maintain," he'll work. That is impetus to give him to work for the family. And if a boy gets wife or woman without any hard working, they why he should marry? And if he has got responsibility that "I have to maintain my wife; then I can enjoy," then he becomes responsible. Wooden bridge?
Gurukṛpa: That is like Australia. That is Australia.
Prabhupāda: Australia?
Gurukṛpa: Yes, the whole country is...
Prabhupāda: Wooden bridge.
Satsvarūpa: Yes, we have to do it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Human life is denied the advantage of this life. Hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu. Simply wasting time by sense gratification, for sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛnoti na sādhu manye... (SB 5.5.4). "Oh, this is not civilization." Yata ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ: "You are going to get again body. You are suffering so much still. That's your plan? Who is happy who has got a material body? Who is happy? Find out. And still, you are going to get another material body? Is that civilization?" Na sādhu manye. "It is not good. Don't work hard for getting another body." This is Vedic civilization. Na sādhu manye: "Oh, it is not good." Sādhu means good. "Why it is not? We are enjoying." Not enjoying. You are going to get another body. "So what is the harm if I get one more body?" Now, kleśada: "You'll simply suffer as soon as you get body." Kleśada. More material body means kleśada, to be prepared for suffering. That they do not know. They are thinking, "enjoying." This is māyā. He's preparing for another suffering condition and he's thinking, "I am enjoying."
Hari-śauri: Simply cheating process.
Prabhupāda: No aim how to make people understand about God. They have no such, neither they do know personally. Their only aim is that "If I become a God-man, if I can bluff, jugglery of words and this magic and..., then I'll..." The same material thing, pratiṣṭha. As ordinary people, they are working so hard for some material gain, material reputation, these people are like that, in a different manner. This Satya Sai Baba, this Vivekananda, this, all of them, like that. They want some material position, misusing their mediocre knowledge. That's all.
Hari-śauri: It's called "A cloak of respectability."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: Saintly person.
Prabhupāda: Yes. To become saintly person, exploit the person, ordinary fools. That is aim. So we shall now...?
Hari-śauri: Yes. (end)
Gurukṛpā: The poor man, his office is cheating him, and then his wife stays home and spends all his money and he is being cheated by her.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He comes, taking so much trouble for the wife. He will lie down with her from eleven at night up to three o'clock. For that, that is home. This is his home. And to maintain this home, he has to take so much trouble. And this is civilization. He does not think, "For this little happiness why I am here? Better to become a sannyāsī and live independently. Why I'm taking so much...?" No. And after working so hard, in old age if you ask permission from the wife, "I have done so much for you, for family. Now let me retire." "Eh? You'll retire? Then who will look after me?" The home member not satisfied, and you are not satisfied. You are working so hard—how you can be satisfied? And they find still insufficient income. They are not satisfied. But what is this home? To sense gratification. You are not serving this woman. Because this woman, as soon as she is not able to serve you by her sex, then there is divorce. Nobody's serving anybody, but everybody is serving his own senses. So actually the man is serving his own senses, uṣṭra. He's eating his own blood and thinking, "Thorn very palatable." He's eating thorn. What is his palatable? Cutting the tongue and blood is coming out, and when the thorn's chewed with this blood, it makes little taste. Blood has got taste. And he's thinking, "Thorn is very nice."
Prabhupāda: Even there is no creation, you have to suffer, because you are eternal. So some millions of years there is no creation and you'll have to lie down—no activity, just like sleeping. Suppose you are sleeping for one million year. Is that a very enjoyment, sleeping for many millions of years? Again you get the light. That is chance. Again you are created, either as Brahmā or any nonsense. But you see the light. Creation or no creation... "No creation" is still suffering. Creation is suffering, but "no creation" is still more suffering. Just like everyone is working very hard, but in Sweden there is no day. Somebody committing suicide. It is a great suffering. Otherwise how do they commit suicide. Is it not?
Hari-śauri: Yes. They have the highest suicide rate in the world.
Prabhupāda: One becomes mad. I was... I experienced this in Bombay, that due to Śyāmasundara's mistake I was detained for three days?
Gurukṛpā: The yellow fever. Hospital.
Hari-śauri: Quarantine.
Prabhupāda: Quarantine. Simply by thinking that "I shall not be allowed to go out of this room..." It is not a room; it is a big house, but still, I was feeling uncomfortable: "How is that? I shall not be free to go out." And that three days was actually suffering to me, "I cannot go out of the door." Simply by feeling this. I do not do practically. I sit down. But if I feel, "No, I cannot go out of this room," that's a great suffering. Whole day, I am sitting here. That's a fact.
Satsvarūpa: "Don't cheat on your tax."
Prabhupāda: "Don't cheat..."
Satsvarūpa: "Or you'll be persecuted."
Prabhupāda: Who is cheating? They're cheating. Just see. They are working hard; they are cheating. And they, by taxation getting money and living very comfortable, they are not cheating.
Gargamuni: They are greater cheaters.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is Kali-yuga.
dhanya kali-yuga teri līlā duḥkha lāge haspar(?)
Tulasī dāsa has said, "In the Kali-yuga, dudha, milk—no customer. And surā, wine-baitale vikāra.(?) It is sitting down in one place, and customers are going there: "Give me. Give me one after another, one after..." Surā, wine, is so impure that it should not be touched. That is selling in one place very comfortably. Dudha? Gali gali phire: "Will you take milk? Will you take milk?" Dudha gali gali phire surā baitale vikāra, dhanya kali-yuga teri līlā. Kali-yuga dhanya tomāra.(?) "Your pastime..." Duḥkha lāge haspar, "I am very sorry, but at the same time, I am laughing." (laughs) "Although I am very sorry, but still, I am laughing." This is Kali-yuga.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And now they're getting two vans for book distribution.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And now Gargamuni is asking to purchase this van and with that money they will purchase Indian van. That will solve the problem. Those who are coming... (break) Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī (BG 6.1). Kṛṣṇa says. Anāśritaḥ, now you are working so hard not for your benefit, personal, and that is sannyāsī. That is sannyāsī. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryam. "Oh it is my duty to serve Kṛṣṇa." And he is sannyāsī. Anyone who has got this consciousness that "It is my duty to serve Kṛṣṇa. I must serve Him with my life and soul and everything," he's a sannyāsī. Not the dress. So you are doing that. Now fix up. Go on doing this. Life is successful. That's all. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī. Find out this verse. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalam. It is so nice to work for Kṛṣṇa without any personal profit. This is Vṛndāvana. The gopīs, they sacrificed everything for Kṛṣṇa, their position, their honor, their prestige. So do like that. I am very glad to see when you work so hard for Kṛṣṇa. That gives me much pleasure.
Bhavānanda: Noontime?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Twelve-thirty, one.
Prabhupāda: That's nice, one o'clock.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One o'clock.
Prabhupāda: Make arrangement for prasāda distribution, any center. For that, we have to work hard, we have to collect, we have to beg, borrow, steal, everything. Prasāda distribution. And kīrtana. Here your distribution propa..., having kīrtana or not?
Bhavānanda: I'm sorry, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Brahmānanda: When you distribute prasāda do you have kīrtana also?
Bhavānanda: Yes, up and down the aisle. When we're distributing the big prasāda, then we have a kīrtana party.
Prabhupāda: They must hear kīrtana.
Bhavānanda: Always.
Prabhupāda: That must be done.
Satsvarūpa: Chenique?
Prabhupāda: "...Aurobindo and Dr. Radhakrishnan, they have compromised with the Western idea, but here is the real tradition of India." Actually that's a fact. All of them, they have tried to make a hodgepodge. And from the beginning my idea was I shall present as it is. That's all. Therefore I gave this name, "As It Is." Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Why shall I manufacture idea? Present this as it is. All right. Let us do our duty. (devotees offer obeisances) (break) So at any cost, I am still dictating. I'll go on dictating so long I live. That's all. But this is very nice program, our farm program. practical. So if possible, Paramānanda may come and teach them.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. This is the most successful farm at least in our society from the production point of view.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, I saw personally. He is working very hard, and everyone is happy. You were there?
Hari-śauri: Yes.
Prabhupāda: It is very nice. I always remember. Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Jaya. (end)
Tripurāri: We do all practical work. Come and see. They can't say that we don't do practical work in society.
Prabhupāda: That is rascal, cāparāsī, in the court. He'll think that "High-court judge is simply sitting. He's getting four thousand, and I am getting twelve rupees, although I am working hard day and night." That is cāparāsī made. It is not high-court judges. Cāparāsī will think like that, that "He's sitting simply from ten to two o'clock and doing nothing, simply sitting idly, and sometimes speaking something, and he's getting four thousand. And actually I am working hard day and night and getting twelve rupees?"
Tripurāri: Envious. Just envious. (break)
Prabhupāda: Why he said dhīra, sober, cool-headed? These rascals are cats and dogs. They are not civilized, even big, big professors, they say, "Swami, after finishing this body, everything is finished." Has he got brain? And they're Communist leader. Identifying with this body. This is the actual platform of that body, dehātma-buddhiḥ. And they're described in the śāstra as no better than the asses. So next point will be that where you think beyond your capacity, we begin our education from there, seeing the... Our education begins from that. First of all try to understand what is spirit. Then it will... And our whole process is how to transfer one person from the material platform to the spiritual. Therefore they are thinking "brainwash." The fools, they cannot understand where our education begins. Where they have failed, we begin from there. Where they are disappointed, that "This cannot be answered," so on, we begin from there. So who is intelligent? We are intelligent or they are? We are trying to bring man from this gross misunderstanding, misidentification platform, to come to the spiritual platform. Then he understands what is the spiritual kingdom, the spiritual life that is eternal, blissful. Then he will understand. And that is all new to these dull-headed rascals. And they are thinking... It is the same, different subject matter.
Prabhupāda: All beggars. (laughs)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, poor beggars, right. And then a skyscraper full of beggars, and then they realize, "How they purchased a skyscraper? These people are collecting a lot of money."
Prabhupāda: We want that they should have necessaries without any difficulty and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That they do not like. They want people to be industrialists, working very hard in the factory.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Hari-śauri: They're envious because they're struggling for their own existence, and they don't like to see us not struggle.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Envious. But if we develop this community project, farm, they cannot do anything.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they appreciate this farm projects.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "Why shall I work? I am working for my own..., for the village."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They like that. They would also... Probably they would respect if we did some businesses, some of our members.
Prabhupāda: We can do. Manager is there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (chuckling) No one could do what you have done, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: How I can... Main business is how to... Gaura-vāṇī-pracāriṇe. "Let them first of all, somehow or other, yena tena prakāreṇa. Then I shall impose rules and regulations and regulative..." He has... You have not seen from the very beginning. They have seen. I worked very hard. Two times lectures, cooking, and meeting and twenty-four-hours writing book, typing. Not a single moment, and still I am not wasting single moment.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Always thinking of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: I was giving two tapes daily.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I remember.
Prabhupāda: Two tapes daily regularly. Bhagavad-gītā and Bhāgavata. Sometimes Brahmānanda was typing, sometimes Satsvarūpa, sometimes one boy, Neil, he was typing. He was very good typist.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Stryadhīśa.
Prabhupāda: Sometimes in San Francisco one girl was typing. I was giving them sufficient work. Hayagrīva was typing.
Prabhupāda: First week? What did...?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, at the end of the first week of April, or in the middle of April at the latest. Then, in about six months, I have decided to finish the book we have been writing. So by six months' full time, all three of us together can work hard... There's a lot to be studied, studies, studies. So I've made a proposal for the three of us in which we'd work real hard for six months to finish the book. And then, by that time we would have the first volume of the journal plus the book. So we can go out for preaching. We can all have the material for... Just speaking, sometimes it's so difficult for others to understand what's there. They want to really study our work. And then we can also do some saṅkīrtana while we're preaching. Then in the future we might also be self-sufficient, not supplying any money from BBT. It will be a burden to the BBT fund, and so also we wanted to generate so that it can be self-sufficient, rather than donation by BBT.
Prabhupāda: They pay for scientific lecture. When there is some scientific lecture...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. We are going to charge high also this time. That's going to be... It involves a lot of hard work, and the scientific community will be open for this type of.... We are not saying something dogmatic. We are presenting in such a manner that it's very scientific and it's ready for discussion. There's no way that they can check it, that "It's coming from this movement. So, no, that's no knowledge." It must be open. It must be open-minded. We must change our views. And if you feel that our views are inferior, then you tell us. If it's inferior, then there is no reason that you shouldn't take it seriously.
Prabhupāda: So when Bombay festival will go on, your presence will be required.
Prabhupāda: They can do, all their political divisions. These rascals, they can do. Anything. They have no principles, no morality, no standard of morality, nothing. Simply all rogues and thieves. It will more and more. All rogues and thieves will take part in politics. That is stated. Dasyu dharmeṇa. Just like dasyu, the burglar, the thieves, they have got organization how to get money. So they, the government, they'll be rogues and thieves. And whenever there is necessity of money, then tax. You work hard; they will tax. Organized burglars, organized guṇḍās. And Indira was doing that. Indira and company. Take the power and club(?) them and do whatever you like. She is a prostitute; her son is a guṇḍā. This is the sample of the... But it will be done all round the world. This is a sample of that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She seems to have been one of the worst leaders so far.
Prabhupāda: She is not leader, she is a prostitute. Woman given freedom means prostitute. Free woman means prostitute. What is this prostitute? She has no fixed-up husband. And free woman means this, daily, new friend.
Prabhupāda: They both of them know English very nicely. Now some Bengali literature should come out. Hindi, Bengali, English, any, sufficient for the time being. Gujarati.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But no one from the Bengali side is as expert and hard-working in this matter as Gopāla Kṛṣṇa is here. That's one point. Pañcaratna is a good man, but I mean he himself doesn't speak the language. So I feel that Gopāla will get more done in Hindi than they can get done in Bengali because...
Prabhupāda: No, Bengali he's useless.(?) After finishing (indistinct) we will simply print. That's all. When the task is finished printing, Gopāla can print.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's my thought. He should do the printing of all the books.
Prabhupāda: And he will do that. He'll do that.
Prabhupāda: That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's policy. Let the rascal Sarvabhauma speak first of all. Let his talk be finished. Hear silently. And then reply. He'll hear.
Girirāja: I found, at least in the business community, there are many mūḍhas.
Prabhupāda: Mood? Ah, mūḍhas, yes.
Girirāja: Their philosophy is to work hard and die.
Prabhupāda: That hog philosophy, which is forbidden. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān (SB 5.5.1). Why? Why you should work so hard? That I said, that Daily Messenger, in the pandal, hanging...
Girirāja: They say that by opening factories they are giving work to so many people. So they cannot also lead the same...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading letter) "The Chief Minister's Secretariat, Government of Maharastra, Saciwalya."
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not a very long note. It's signed by the Undersecretary. It says, "Dear Sir, I am desired to acknowledge with thanks receipt of your letter dated the 3rd April, 1977. Yours faithfully, Undersecretary." You sent him a very personal letter. I think he should have... He may be a little bit depressed at this time due to having to leave office.
Prabhupāda: That was his dilemma. If he said, "No, we cannot cooperate or join this..." I asked, letter?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And if you make it a fun business, then I become implicated, you become implicated.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In what way does the spiritual master become...?
Prabhupāda: Well, this is then something.(?)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He has to work very hard on behalf of the disciple...
Prabhupāda: No. To accept his sinful reaction.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He does that?
Prabhupāda: It is not easy job to become a spiritual master. Yes. Then when it is overloaded, you'll suffer.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa transfers the sinful reaction unto the spiritual master from the disciple.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why? Is it because there will be such a heavy...?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says... That is the principle. This is, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). "You have to take all the sinful reactions." This is the principle, that Kṛṣṇa is God. He can nullify everything. But I am not God. When it is overloaded, I have to suffer. This is the principle that the Christian idea that Christ takes.
Prabhupāda: The city girl, she does not wish to come.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. It's too... What should I say?
Prabhupāda: They are not faithful wives.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. They want the cinema and all of the other things. They don't want to work hard. Farm life means to work hard. You have to get out and milk the cows, so many things. They don't want to do this. They want to stay at home.
Prabhupāda: Stay home and read fiction and drink.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And watch television. That is the great American sport, watching television. When Mr. Dwivedi and his friends were asking, I went over what our... I gave him an idea of what our menu would be. So he was saying, "So four o'clock in the afternoon will be tea or coffee?" I said, "We don't drink tea or coffee. We don't take cigarette. We don't go to the cinema." Actually I should have told him, "No onions or garlic." I didn't tell him, you know. You'll tell him when we go there.
Prabhupāda: You just appoint one local cook. There are good cooks.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, there are people who do that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And we don't care for the lunch. What is the... I am sitting idly. I haven't got to work hard. I don't require food, little fruits even. Those who are working, they require food to get strength, but I am sitting idly, and brain is working. So so far my physical necessity, there is no necessity of food. But I may not so depend on that going to the bath, toilet. I require... And that is also not required. There are many persons. That Rajda... I... He was also... I have seen many men. For rising up, they require help.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, that's normal in old age. That's not unusual.
Prabhupāda: I can walk. There is no difficulty. But getting up... I can... If I try, I can get up also.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, you would do it even in Māyāpur. Sometimes you would ring the bell and no one came. You'd get up yourself.
Prabhupāda: That is also not difficult.
Prabhupāda: All these yogis... They get cheap food, cheap women. That's all. And debauched women, in Hindu society, they cannot mix with other men, take advantage of these yogis, swamis and cheaters. Just becoming so-called devotees, they have sex attraction.(?) From both sides. Sex... Sex impulse is so strong that in different ways it should be taken, as a yogi, as a swami, as a gṛhastha, as a debauch, as a loafer. All... The central point is sex. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukham (SB 7.9.45). These asses...
Trivikrama: Working so hard.
Prabhupāda: Working so hard and then sex, and the female kicks on the face. They enjoy, "Ah." You have seen this?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Vṛndāvana I used to watch them.
Prabhupāda: "Phat! Phat! Phat! Phat!" But still, he goes. Bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ (SB 7.9.45). It begins with kicking. The cats also, they (makes cat noise:) "Eeeyow!" They have come for sex, but the female cat will show some prestige and... Then sex. If she does not like, why she has come? (laughter) But they show some prestigious position. Then (makes cat noise:) "Eeyenh!" This is the central point of material happiness. Therefore we cannot allow within our temples now such sex. That is not possible. We are condemning the sex life, and we cannot accommodate.
Prabhupāda: Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8).
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are also very dedicated and working, some of the scientists.
Prabhupāda: They have no other alternative.
Bhakti-caru: (indistinct)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They work so hard and...
Prabhupāda: For nothing.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But all in their own direction...
Prabhupāda: Actually the body is changing. All his efforts-futile. And he is eternal.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is also a blow to the communist world, Communism also. It has several effects.
Prabhupāda: That scientist said life slipped away from his...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, somehow life escaped from his fingers. So that's a proper word. I'm quoting his word, using it as an authentic quote from them. We also use some words which will be not so favorable when they read these things, our things. We're also trying to criticize them, that they are...
Prabhupāda: That do.
Prabhupāda: Frugal, yes. And when there is enough money, they construct their own house. Then they live very luxuriously. In the beginning, no.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. And they'll work sixteen hours sometimes.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. As much as possible. Very hard-working.
Śatadhanya: And their sons also work with them.
Prabhupāda: And whatever money saved, they purchase ornament. They don't deposit in the bank.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. That's one of their things.
Prabhupāda: Hm. That is Indian style. To save money means purchase ornament.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Purchasing one ornament.
Prabhupāda: Ornament for the wife.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That could be...
Prabhupāda: Because she likes ornament, gold, and they have got molten(?) in the jewelry.
Prabhupāda: ...full. They are seeking after comfort, but on the contrary, they have to work like an ass.
Śatadhanya: To work hard.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Śatadhanya: They have to work hard.
Prabhupāda: Like an ass. Have you not seen the ass? Can anyone work like that? The animal is so small, and the load is ten times than his body's weight. You have not seen? If you weigh the animal's body and the load, the load is ten times more than his body. This is the punishment. And again, the man who is loading him now, he'll have to become an ass and take the load. This is called karma-bandhana.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He writes, "Many days... After working for more than one day at several universities, my presence became too obvious, and this becomes politically and legally dangerous, although in some little cities I became practically the talk of the town because people had not seen one with a dark body as mine, speaking only English and a little French." He's very dark. (break) He says, "Most important at this school was that after four days of trying to meet the Indologist, we were successful. I met the man and his assistant. They kept stressing that we were..." (break)
Prabhupāda: If required, you can show this line to Mr. Koku(?). In foreign countries they are no more interested in philosophical speculation. Actually they are not, neither in America nor India.
Prabhupāda: 6:30 in the morning?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "I was ready for them. My first meeting was the most important one."
Prabhupāda: It means that they do... These communist countries, they work so hard.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: They rise up, 4:30, prepare for going to work. Then work begins at 6:30. Is it not more load than the ass? Still they have to do that, by force.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Says, "I was escorted to the Dean's office. He was also the chairman of the Philosophy and Sociology Institute. He requested both standing orders for the Institute."
Prabhupāda: (laughs) They are getting standing orders, all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "And he wrote me a note for the librarian. This note influenced the librarian to take not just the standing orders or all of the books, but they have agreed to take every book that we have in each of the different languages also."
Prabhupāda: How intelligent.
Prabhupāda: Solve this problem. And don't be poverty-stricken. That's all. That is happiness. There is no need of... So we, the members of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are living hundred times happily than anyone else, hundred times. They cannot dream. They are envious. In Los Angeles the neighborhood men, they're envious, that "These people, these devotees, they do not do anything, and they are living so comfortably—so many cars, nice palace, nice food." They inquire. They do not know. Don't expect in that way happiness. That is futile, that "Our father will leave lakhs of rupees and we shall get the interest and enjoy and then drink and go on." That is not happiness. Work hard how to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and be happy in this way. Kṛṣṇa will give. And yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham. Teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). He knows what is your need. Depend on Kṛṣṇa, but don't sit down like lazy. Yudhyasva mām anusmara (BG 8.7). This is instruction. We are trying to teach the whole world that "Be Kṛṣṇa conscious, and keep your status quo very nicely without any being poverty-stricken, and that is happiness." That is happiness. And so far the bodily disadvantages, so as soon as you get this material body, you'll have to... You have to die. You have to suffer from disease. You have to take birth. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā. So therefore śāstra says, that verse, that "Don't be attached to karma-kāṇḍa, fruitive activities." Na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam. "By karma-kāṇḍa you can get better body, but that will not solve your problem." Yata ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). This body is temporary, but so long you have got this body, you have to suffer, this way or that way. So this is your real unhappiness, to get this material. Kleśada. Kleśada means always giving trouble. From the childhood they are crying. He has got some kleśa. The mother cannot understand. He's crying.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Bhakti-caru was saying that one of the reasons Bengali people are by nature... They're intelligent. They're always intelligent people, not so much physically hard working. So without so much physical work to do and without proper employment, this intelligence now has become misdirected. 'Cause nowhere else in India do the Communists have such a foothold as in Bengal.
Prabhupāda: Intelligent and lazy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Intelligent lazy. I looked on the medicine bottle of this cough medicine that you took.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This cough medicine that you took, that Expectrin? One fourth of it is chloroform, and it says that in some persons it will cause sleepiness, drowsiness, due to the chloroform.
Upendra: He's coming, Prabhupādajī. He's just finishing breakfast. He said he's coming. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...in the world, the most disturbing element.
Prabhupāda: He was from very beginning. Brahmānanda. He has worked very hard from the beginning.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says "I may also come to cook and clean for you."
Prabhupāda: Yes, you are welcome.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "If you so desire. And carry you also."
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) No, you are doing more important business. Do that. But if you want to do, whatever you like, you can come. He is a good cook also.
Bhāgavatāśraya: Hm. Everyone compliments his cooking. Everyone.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "We have a great debt to repay you and we are perplexed how to repay. At least Your Divine Grace may stay as long as we try to repay till the debt we owe to you. I think if we work hard and preach and the world recognizes this movement, then you may want to stay here longer."
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact.
Prabhupāda: Therefore those who are physically active, they can eat more.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, it's true.
Prabhupāda: But those who are not physically active, they cannot eat.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. That's the difference between the Bengalis and the Punjabis. Punjabis work very hard.
Prabhupāda: No, they eat also.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And they eat very nicely.
Prabhupāda: They are healthy men.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The Bengalis, they do a lot of clerical jobs, sitting in one place.
Prabhupāda: They get diabetes.
Prabhupāda: No, let us make some community.(?)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Show the world how to live ideally, go back to Godhead. Raise your own food, make your own clothes, make your own buildings, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Worship Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. They are working so hard, they don't have nice home, they don't have nice clothing, they don't have nice food, and they have no love for Kṛṣṇa. We have to show how to do everything very nicely. And you've given... We just have to understand what you've given us, Prabhupāda, your teachings.
Prabhupāda: Thank you.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have nothing new to find out. We have no research to make. You've given us everything. We only have to carry out exactly how you've trained us up and taught us.
Prabhupāda: Do it nicely. Hm. So you can go with your business.
Subhaga: (Bengali)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the motive behind which we do everything is to please you. You must be present to accept whatever service... We are not very good servants, but whatever little we do, we do for you. Without you being present, we would lose our very reason for working hard and serving.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali with Subhaga)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Now you can go to your respective...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Do you want to take rest now for a while? Little rest. You want kīrtana or anything?
Prabhupāda: Not now.
Prabhupāda: They like it.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: They like it very much. Nandarāṇī Prabhu and Dayānanda Prabhu are managing.
Prabhupāda: They are both intelligent.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. They are working very hard.
Prabhupāda: And they are very sincere. What do you charge?
Parivrājakācārya: About sixteen rupees, fifteen tomands(?). It is very little price. It's very small.
Prabhupāda: For one plate?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: One plate. Very reasonable price. But many people give donations. And many of them take the books. We have your books. They take, and they read it, and they love it.
Prabhupāda: Success.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that your idea, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: You dig the earth and make it a lake like.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right along the building?
Prabhupāda: No. Throw the earth this side and that side. Automatically it will be like a small canal.
Kīrtanānanda: Put crocodiles. (laughter)
Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I was somewhat disturbed after the incident, but I'm feeling much better now. After that, in the jail, and I was discouraged, I was feeling, "Oh, Śrīla Prabhupāda is working so hard to develop this Māyāpur, and the people don't appreciate it or... What is the use?" But that I think was... That's all gone now. So many people, they're coming, and books are being distributed. Increase.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So Dhṛṣṭadyumna is, I think, the elder. His brother is here.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: My brother is an architect, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and he's helping us to design the community plan for the small village and the temple. He's working very hard to help set up an ideal Vedic community.
Prabhupāda: Keep always engaged yourself in Kṛṣṇa activity. That is wanted. Jaya. (break) ...yad yad ācarati... (BG 3.21). You can give me two teaspoon glucose.
Brahmānanda: Two teaspoons?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Glucose.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was just... Everything you say is important to us, so I was just explaining to Jayādvaita to make sure that if you speak about these... (microphone moving) What would you like? Turning over? Okay.
Prabhupāda: Turn me over occasionally this way and that way, even I do not say.
Prabhupāda: Bhakti-caru? (Bengali with Bhakti-caru)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It might be that Kṛṣṇa postponed the opening of Bombay to get you..., so that you could have enough time to get a little health. It could be.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) He has arranged alone.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Svarūpa Dāmodara? Yes. This is his single-handed attempt. Of course, the others have worked very hard also for writing the books and getting them printed. But this arrangement locally practically is his. He's worked very hard-Agra and Delhi.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali with Bhakti-caru)
Bhakti-caru: Fruit juice now.
Bharadvāja: Made for Kali-yuga.
Prabhupāda: How many khols he has already prepared?
Bharadvāja: I don't know exactly, but I think it was close to about two hundred when I left.
Prabhupāda: Where he is making?
Bharadvāja: Well, they are having most of the part done outside by outside people, professionals, and Īśāna is assembling, and he's working very hard.
Prabhupāda: It is plastic?
Bharadvāja: Yes, Completely, everything. And it can be tuned also on the spot. There is a key, and with this key you can tune it up. The heads never break, but if they happen to break they can be immediately replaced within... They can get extra heads and it takes about two minutes to change, to put a new head on.
Prabhupāda: Hm!
Bharadvāja: So Īśāna has worked very hard to fulfill your order, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Now he's successful.
Bharadvāja: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So with cooperation of Tamāla and who else?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Chandra.
Prabhupāda: Chandra. And with your intelligence you can manage.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. You have to apply your intelligence to this. It's no doubt you're going to have to work hard to get this money. But otherwise where is any business successful unless there's endeavor? The money is there. It's a fact you'll have to work for it. That's a fact. I can see that. It's not completely simple, but it's there. Good business, it can be gotten.
Prabhupāda: So you can return immediately with the certificate?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I think you should do that. Should not lose time now.
Prabhupāda: And Chandra there and...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (to Vrindavan:) Whatever you need from here, I will help you. As far as I can do, any letters or anything I can give you, I am prepared to do. And I can give you the counterfoils, and I'll also give him the safe custody receipt.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...tomorrow probably. (indistinct) ...loan... Actually we're not loaning him that money. That money is being given as a gift to him. He was willing to pay it back. I said, no, this is a gift from you to him for improving his business. I said actually it's meant for each of the family members. I told him, "You use it now for improving your business. Then if business increases, you can eventually pay each one of them the money that they should have gotten." He said, "Very nice." And I explained to him what squandering meant. Now it is very clear. I told him that "You can use the money each month that you get. And all of you can use it for three things: for purchasing property, increasing business or buying government stocks." I said, "Prabhupāda's point is that whatever he's given you, it should increase in its value. He wants to see that it increases." And now it's very definite, so... Again I explained to him how there should be no difficulty with this, getting this... He's a little lazy. He's lazy. I could see that when he thought that the money was a donation, I think it came in his mind that "Even if the business deal doesn't go through, I still get the money." He should be encouraged, but his tendency is to be a little lazy. They should not be given money easily, too easily. Otherwise they won't work hard. He's also getting some money, he told me, from a fixed deposit in Calcutta from the BBT which he uses for travel expenses. He says gradually he will be paying some of that money back. He said that's why he sent you sometimes... He recently sent 870 rupees. He says that he's using it for travel expenses, and he may pay it back. I didn't know if you had arranged anything regarding that. You expect him to pay that money back, or not necessarily? It should be.
Prabhupāda: No, I expect.
Bhagatji: Sometimes when I used to come you were sleeping. I'll sit for one hour and then went out.
Prabhupāda: Things are going on.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhagatji was working very hard, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Too hard. Sometimes he missed his meals in the last two days to do that. I never saw... Even a young man could not work so much as he worked in the last two days. Śrīla Prabhupāda? I think we can... If you allow, Bhavānanda Mahārāja and I can sit you up for a minute to drink a little barley milk? Then you can lay down and take good rest. Taking a little warm thing at night is helpful for sleeping. It's relaxing. We never were used to that, but since we met Your Divine Grace, we're always taking a little warm milk at night. So you'll allow us to give you a little? (pause)
Bhavānanda: Bhakti-caru Prabhu.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm simply praying that Kṛṣṇa in your stomach accepts everything, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Would you like to lie down now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Pass urine.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Manipur boys are very good workers. We saw them in Bombay. Remember, Śrīla Prabhupāda? I brought three of them to meet you. They all looked like Svarūpa Dāmodara junior. Very humble, intelligent, hard-working.
Jayapatākā: The Manipur Mandir in Navadvīpa, when I was gone they had sent an invitation for attending one function. They're very favorable. When the party went to Assam, then they got invitation to go to Tripura, which is next to Manipur. It's eighty percent Bengali-speaking and also many Vaiṣṇavas. So we expect to distribute many books there. Next month party will be going to Tripura.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Book distribution has hit India, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Jayapatākā: And, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I was thinking that it's very important... We want to complete this temple during your stay here on this planet. Then your life's mission will be... There won't be anything that's left uncomplete if we could just complete the temple. The present... Just meditating that what are the obstacle... Actually we have already enough land for the temple itself, but the temple design... When you first came to Māyāpur, then the temple was going to be 225 feet. Then we asked Saurabha to make a design, and then he made 300 feet. At that time the estimate was fifteen million. Then again he was designing, designing, and it went to 350 feet. Then it went to thirty million. Then it went to 400 feet, fifty-five million. Now it's up to seventy million.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dollars?
Jayapatākā: Dollars. Every time he thinks about it, he adds fifty feet, and it goes up twenty million. So now all the distributors in the world, they were very eager to see the temple built, but at the present time it requires so much money at seventy million dollars and 450 feet that no one can think of even starting it for five years. But if the temple was 300 or 350 feet and twenty-five or thirty million dollars, which I don't think anyone—it would be the biggest building even in India and the biggest temple in the world—then it could be started immediately, feasibly. Four temples in America said that if they just get five women each, that means twenty women from the Society, then they could each pledge 25,000 rupees a month for..., in collection. That means $125,000. Plus BBT's $100,000 a month and Gurukṛpā, that would be enough immediately even in the coming year to start the construction of the temple, simply if Saurabha was asked to just make the temple on a thirty million dollar budget, which would be 350 feet or 300 feet. And this is really inspiring the book distributors to have this temple begun, and to complete it within your lifetime, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: My lifetime... (laughs) It is now very brief. At any moment I can...
Jayapatākā: We're all praying that Kṛṣṇa will give your strength back. (break) ...neophyte devotees. Without your inspiration, association, it'll be very difficult.
Prabhupāda: That Muhammadan, what is his name?
Jayapatākā: Which one?
Prabhupāda: Back side our...
Jayapatākā: Badusheik.
Prabhupāda: To request not to go?
Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I'll tell you, I'm getting so upset sitting in the room upstairs. I mean I just... I was walking around... Two of the devotees told me this road is so bad that if you go on this road, you're going to be jolted back and forth. The road is terrible. I just can't understand, Śrīla Prabhupāda, why it has to be tomorrow that we have to go. If anybody wants you to travel, I do. My whole desire is to take you all over the world. I want to take you on parikrama, but why do we have to go when you're in this condition? I can't understand it. It just... I was standing outside. This kavirāja, he has worked so hard. He's so much disappointed. He can't understand why he... He says that now, today, you've taken half a kilo of milk. No mucus has is being produced. No stool is being passed. He says tomorrow he wants to give you a medicine that will begin to build the milk into muscles. He's going to get you to a point where you can take two kilos of milk a day. And he says very soon you'll be able to have the strength to actually do parikrama. So why are we throwing everything out the window, that we must go tomorrow? I cannot understand.
Prabhupāda: All right.
Bhakti-caru: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.
| Page Title: | Working hard (Conversations (1976 - 1977) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 16 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=137, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 137 |