Everyone can understand this. There are... Kṛṣṇa is the root. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo (BG 10.8). Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). He's the root. But we are neglecting the root. We are trying to pour water in the leaves. The leaf will dry, and his labor will be frustrated. That is happening. So-called humanitarian service, social service, without any touch with Kṛṣṇa... Just like watering on the tree without touching the root—it is useless labor. Similarly, you do whatever service you can do to the society, to the community, to the nation, but do it in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then you're perfect. Otherwise it will remain imperfect. The persons who are, whom you are giving service, they'll never be happy, neither you'll be happy. So this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that they're simply wasting their time. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply wasting their time in so-called humanitarian service. They must take... Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa-sambandhe. Everything should be in relationship with Kṛṣṇa.
Will remain (Lectures, Other)
Lectures
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
Yes. Without being Kṛṣṇa conscious, there cannot be blissful life. If, if... You may rest assured. You may try in so many ways. Andhā yathāndair upanīyamānāḥ. Leaders may try. It will not be possible. Take, for example, in India. We thought, "If the Britishers go away, so, then we'll be happy. There will be no Hindu-Muslim riots. There will be..." So many things we conjectured. "It will be Rāma-rājya." But what is the Rāma-rājya? Now everything there is fight. Now there is no Hindu-Muslim riot. Now Andhra and other provinces, they're fighting. So fighting will remain, unless we are Kṛṣṇa conscious. Go on.
They were. And they are existing at present. And similarly they will exist in the future." That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. So where is the question of merging? And loss of individuality? The individuality remains. It remained in the past. It is, at the present moment, it is continuing. And in the future also, they will remain, the same way. This is clearly explained in the second chapter of Bhagavad-gītā. So merging does not mean, always, that losing one's individuality. The individuality's there. Therefore the theory of merging into the existence of impersonal Brahman is to stay there for some time, again fall down. Just like the same example that the water of the rivers, they merge into the ocean, but again it is evaporated, in the sky, and it falls. Again goes through the river, merges. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). This is going on. One mani..., once manifested, and again merging. This is going on.
So our philosophy is that once going into the ocean, no more coming back. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). That is our philosophy. If we once go in the spiritual world, we do not like to come back. We stay with Kṛṣṇa and dance with Him, or play with Him, or serve with, serve Him as tree, as plant, as water, as cows, as land, as cowherd boys, as father, mother, or as gopīs.
Devotee: "So Śukadeva Gosvāmī has recommended to Parīkṣit Mahārāja that in order to be fearless of death one has to hear and chant and remember the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, by all means. He also mentions that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is Sarvātmā. Sarvātmā means the 'Supersoul of everyone.' Kṛṣṇa is also mentioned as Īśvara, the Supreme Controller, who is situated in everyone's heart. Therefore if some way or other we become attached to Kṛṣṇa, He will make us free from all danger. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that anyone who becomes a devotee of the Lord is never vanquished. Others, however, are always vanquished. Vanquished means that after getting this human form of life a person does not come out of the entanglement of birth and death and thus misses his golden opportunity. Such a person does not know where he is being thrown by the laws of nature.
Suppose one does not develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness in this human form of life. He will be thrown into the cycle of birth and death involving 8,400,000 species of life, and his spiritual identity will remain lost. One does not know whether he is going to be a plant or a beast or a bird or something like that, because there are so many species of life. The recommendation of Rūpa Gosvāmī for reviving our original Kṛṣṇa consciousness is that somehow or other we should apply our minds to Kṛṣṇa very seriously and thus become fearless of death. After death we do not know our destination because we are completely under the control of the laws of nature. Only Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is controller over the laws of nature. Therefore if we take shelter of Kṛṣṇa seriously, there will be no fear of being thrown back into the cycle of so many species of life. A sincere devotee will surely be transferred to the abode of Kṛṣṇa, as affirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā."
Prabhupāda: We are under the control of the material nature. Everyone can realize it. Nobody can be free. But the process of freedom is also stated there: Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā, mām eva ye prapadyante (BG 7.14). If anyone takes to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, surrenders there, and be engaged in His service, then these laws of nature will be slackened, or almost nil. Karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām (Bs. 5.54). These are the statements of the śāstras. Laws of material nature means karma. You act in a certain way and you get the result, good or bad; that is called karma. Sat-karma or asat-karma.
Pradyumna: "Suppose one does not develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness in this human form of life. He will be thrown into the cycle of birth and death involving 8,400,000 species of life, and his spiritual identity will remain lost. One does not know whether he is going to be a plant or a beast or a bird or something like that, because there are so many species of life. The recommendation of Rūpa Gosvāmī for reviving our original Kṛṣṇa consciousness is that somehow or other we should apply our minds to Kṛṣṇa very seriously, and thus also become fearless of death. After death, we do not know our destination, because we are completely under the control of the laws of nature. Only Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is controller over the laws of nature. Therefore, if we take shelter of Kṛṣṇa seriously, there will be no fear of being thrown back into the cycle of so many species of life. A sincere devotee will surely be transferred to the abode of Kṛṣṇa, as affirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā."
Prabhupāda: Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te (BG 7.14). Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). These statements are there. If we actually take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then māyā, the laws of nature, will not act. And... Otherwise, we shall be put into the cycle of birth and death. So the best utilization of this human life is to elevate oneself to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ: if we try to understand Kṛṣṇa, in truth, then tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), then we'll not have to accept any more this material body, which is full of miserable conditions. Then we go back to home, back to Godhead. Go on.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
Then what you are? Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor' dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ: (CC Madhya 13.80) "I am simply servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa." That is sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). Then you'll remain pure. And as soon as you will think in the bodily concept of life, then you will remain impure. This is the process how to give up this bodily concept of life. That is called sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam.
So in this way, in one life we may practice how to become free from this material contamination and execute devotional service as it is prescribed in the śāstra and by the instruction of spiritual master. If we keep ourself pure without material contamination, then we become fit to enter into the family of Kṛṣṇa. This is the process.
Therefore, in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we first of all worship the Pañca-tattva: śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda śrī-advaita gadādhara—then we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. Then it will be successful. Without going through the Pañca-tattva, with the mercy, nobody can understand Kṛṣṇa. It will remain a myth. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says,
- manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
- kaścid yatati siddhaye
- yatatām api siddhānāṁ
- kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ
- (BG 7.3)
You cannot understand Kṛṣṇa without the mercy of these Pañca-tattva. Therefore Kṛṣṇa, although He came personally, He taught the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā and asked people, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). But because we are mūḍhas, we misunderstood Kṛṣṇa. We could not take the last instruction of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa again came as Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu to teach us how to approach Kṛṣṇa. If we read the life of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, His acceptance of sannyāsa order, His preaching all over India, His chanting and dancing, His living at Jagannath Purī, His activities, His meeting with the devotees, His Guṇḍicā-mārjana, His Ratha-yātrā kīrtana—if we study all these activities of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, immediately you understand Kṛṣṇa.
People are crying for votes (loudspeaker heard from outside). So... But they are not inclined to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. You see. Crying, "Give me vote, give me vote, give me vote, give me vote." You see? How wasting their time. What they'll do, getting votes? How long they will remain a minister? But mandāḥ sumanda-matayo (SB 1.1.10). Their opinion is very bad, sumanda-mati, or they do not take any right conclusion. And Bhagavad-gītā says, tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām, antavat tu phalaṁ teṣām (BG 7.23). These activities, they are temporary, will end within some years, but still, they are so much busy with this business. Therefore this kind of occupation is for the alpa-medhasaḥ, those who have got very little brain substance. Medhaḥ means brain substance.
So these things are there, mandāḥ sumanda-matayo. Manda-bhāgyā, also, very poor. In this age, practically everyone is very poor, mostly, the population. You don't think that in America there is no poor man. There is poor man. Although they are getting money, very large sum of money, but they are utilizing in a different way, and they are poor. There are many poor. Intentionally, they have become poor. So therefore it is called manda-bhāgyā, that this... Each word of the Vedic scriptures is so nice. In spite of... In America I have seen. In spite of ample money and resources, some people have voluntarily accepted to remain as very poor and wretched. Voluntarily. They like that.
Festival Lectures
There are so many varieties of bodies. And if we act nicely, piously, then we get better body. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ. Those who are acting, those who are situated on the platform of goodness, they are promoting their existentional status in higher planets. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasaḥ (BG 14.18). And those who are in the modes of passion, they will remain here. And jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ. And those who are very addicted to all abominable habits, they are clearing their way to hellish life. So to abominable life is these four principles. That we are trying to avoid.
So Lord Caitanya's teaching, the sum and substance of His teaching, is to understand that we are eternal servant of God. And if we immediately engage our energy to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, then immediately we are transferred to the spiritual platform. And if we stick to that activities on the spiritual platform, then, as assured by Lord Kṛṣṇa, then, after leaving this body, we go back to Kṛṣṇa, Vṛndāvana, go back to Godhead, back to home. That is our peaceful, eternal peaceful life. We should endeavor for that.
This is sort of an indirect way to prod you to think about the position that you're in now. People become very proud because they have some material opulence or material knowledge, and they tend to think that they are self-sufficient. But actually, we're dependent on so many things. For example, we are just taking it for granted that our bodies will remain unmutilated by various forces in nature, when actually at any moment the bodies could be totally destroyed. And, even granted that our bodies will be with us for some time in operable condition, this field of our activities has many laws which we're dependent upon. Just as the other day we were discussing the law of gravity. This idea of laws in nature necessarily implies the existence of the lawmaker. And this can be demonstrated very easily in many, many ways. We'll take the law of gravity again. If some object in nature which has no consciousness behaves in a regulated manner, then it's obvious that it's under the control of a law. We call it a law. For example, if an apple drops from a tree, the apple is obeying the law of gravity. The apple does not know the law of gravity; therefore that law is being enforced by some superior entity. In our dealings in society, people know laws. Still, they don't obey them. They have to be forced to obey the laws, and still, people disobey the law. But the laws of nature are so perfectly enforced that nobody can disobey. Just a little thought will make this a little bit more clear to anyone.
And as far as possible decorate Her to the best capacity." In this way, if you always feel Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you are fire. The same example, keeping with the fire. And if you think it is a brass-made doll, I mean to say, idol... Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). If you think this is a brass-made idol, then it will remain a brass-made idol to you forever. But if you elevate yourself to higher platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then Kṛṣṇa, this Kṛṣṇa, will talk with you. This Kṛṣṇa will talk with you.
There is a Vaṁsīdāsa Bābājī Mahārāja, he was talking with his Deity. And Kṛṣṇa... Just like Madana-mohana, He was talking with Sanātana Gosvāmī. Madana-mohana... Sanātana Gosvāmī at that time had no temple; he was hanging his Deity on the tree. So Madana-mohana was talking with him, "Sanātana, you are bringing all these dry capatis, and it is stale, and you don't give Me even little salt. How can I eat?" Sanātana Gosvāmī said, "Sir, where shall I go? Whatever I get I offer You. You kindly accept. I cannot move, old man." You see. So Kṛṣṇa had to eat that. (chuckles) Because the bhakta is offering He cannot refuse. Ye māṁ bhaktyā prayacchati. Real thing is bhakti. What you can offer to Kṛṣṇa? Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. What you have got? What is your value? And what is the value of your things? It is nothing. Therefore real thing is bhaktyā, real thing is your feeling. "Kṛṣṇa, kindly take it. I have no qualification. I am most rotten, fallen, but (begins to cry) I have brought this thing for you.
Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritaḥ (BG 9.13). Daivī prakṛti means they are no more interested with this material world. They are interested with the spiritual energy. Because we are spiritual energy. We are... The same energy, we are seeking after the same energy. Just like water can mix with water. Oil cannot mix with water. If you put a drop of oil with water, the oil will remain separate. But if you put a drop of water with water, immediately mixes. Similarly we are spirit soul. As soon as we are in the spiritual world, in spiritual activities, then we are one. There is no discordance. There is no opposing elements. But so long we exist in the material world, everything opposing. Everything opposing. Therefore it is struggle. Struggle for existence. Suppose if you are thrown into the sea, however expert swimmer you may be, it is struggle. It is struggle for existence. But if you are on the land, there is no such struggle. You live natural life. Similarly, mahātmā, those who have become broader by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, by surrendering unto Kṛṣṇa after many, many births... Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). Ante means after. Janma means birth. And fully understanding that everything is Kṛṣṇa, everything is display of Kṛṣṇa's energy.
So Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's energy, there are two things. So we are praying, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare means we are praying to the energy, the internal energy, the spiritual energy, Rādhārāṇī. Hare. We are praying "Hare, O the energy of Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa is always with energy. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śruyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport).
Arrival Addresses and Talks
If you simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa, the result will be that after giving up this body, you will not accept any more material body. You will remain in your spiritual body and go back to home, back to Godhead. That is your eternal life, blissful, full of knowledge. That is wanted. Otherwise, now you have got this very beautiful body, French girl, French boy, if you don't take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if you lose the opportunity, then you may get, because you have got very good friend, dogs. So yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvam (BG 8.6), so at the time of dying, you will think of dog and you will get a body of dog. This is a fact. Because you are under the grip of material nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). As you infect some disease, you must suffer from that disease. Similarly, the infection of ignorance, tamo-guṇa, will give you a tamo-guṇa body. Jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ (BG 14.18). Go down. Nature gives you the opportunity: get a nice human form of body, nice brain, try to understand what is God. But if you misuse it, then again go to become cats and dogs and hogs. This is nature's law. Don't risk your life. Always think of Kṛṣṇa. Sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ (BG 8.6). These things are explained.
We should think that time may also come. Yes. Because after all, it is Kṛṣṇa's desire, turn dust into coin, to turn coin into dust. So we should be always careful. If we remain Kṛṣṇa conscious, then the coin will never turn into dust. Otherwise it can be turned. So you American, you are now full of coins. Before turning into dust, catch Kṛṣṇa with the coin. It will never turn into dust. It will remain coin. Hmm? I am very hopeful of the Americans. Because you are so nice devotees, you can keep your country coinful, no dustful. India is giving up Kṛṣṇa, and therefore they are turning into dust.
Initiation Lectures
So take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and be happy in this life and next life. If you can finish your loving affairs to Kṛṣṇa in this life, then you have done cent percent. If not, whatever percentage you have executed in this life, that will remain with you. It will not go. That is assured in the Bhagavad-gītā, that śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga bhraṣṭo sañjāyate (BG 6.41). One who cannot execute this yoga process completely cent per cent, he is given next birth a chance to take birth in a rich family or to get birth in a very pure family. Two alternatives. So either you take birth in pure family or in rich family, at least your birth as a human being is guaranteed. But if you don't take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, you do not know what is your next birth. There are 8,400,000 different species of life, and you can be transferred to any one of them. If you are transferred to become a tree... Just like I've seen in San Francisco. They said that "This tree is standing for seven thousand years." They stand up on the bench for seven thousand years. The boys are sometimes punished by the teachers in the school, "Stand up on the bench." So these trees are punished, "Stand up," by nature's law. So there is chance of becoming a tree, there is chance of becoming a dog, a cat, or even a rat. So many lives there are. Don't miss this opportunity of human form of life. Perfect your love of Kṛṣṇa and be happy in this life and next life.
That substance will not be carried by you. You have come here empty-handed from the womb of your mother, and when you leave this place, you will also go empty-handed. Not that because you have earned millions of dollars, Mr. Rockefeller or Ford, you can carry this. No. The Rockefeller Center will remain there, where it is. You have to go empty-handed. So now, when it is said arthadam, "You can achieve the substance," that does not mean this artha, temporary, which will not be carried by me. It will be left behind. That is going on. I create something in this life. As much as this body is created by the father and mother, similarly, I also create. That creative energy is there in me because I am part and parcel of God. So God creates; I also create. That creative energy is within me, but a very minute quantity. That creation is nothing in comparison with God's creation. God has created this whole universe, and what you can create? You can create, utmost, a city like New York. That's all. You can create. That's all right. In that sense you are god also. Part and parcel of God is also god, but small god. Just like your earring. That is gold. So that gold is not equal to the gold mine. That gold mine is different. Therefore the philosophy is, "simultaneously one and different." We are, every one of us, we are simultaneously one with God and different from God. One in quality.
Avacintya means beyond our conception. Even though you are able to go in high speed, and for so many years, still Kṛṣṇa remains avacintya-tattva. Nobody can find out where is Kṛṣṇa's abode, Goloka Vṛndāvana. Therefore, the Māyāvādīs, in desperate frustration, they say that Kṛṣṇa is impersonal, because they want to approach Kṛṣṇa by mundane activities, by mental exercise, mental gymnastic. Kṛṣṇa is not available in that way. Kṛṣṇa is available only to His devotees. Kṛṣṇa is the property of His devotee.
- panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyo
- vāyor athāpi manaso muni-puṅgavānām
- so 'py asti yat-prapada-sīmny avicintya-tattve
- govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
- (Bs. 5.34)
- That's all right. (chants japa with devotees)
General Lectures
So a person who does not inquire into the existence of soul, his real identity, all his so-called improvement is simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply laboring, that's all. The whole world is doing that, beating the bush, laboring for nothing. He does not know that how long he will remain. Suppose you are in America. You are now Mr. Ford. You have constructed a very skyscraper building. But how long you shall remain in this skyscraper building? How long you shall remain American or Mr. Ford? Next life, as soon as your body is changed, then you are Mr. Dog or Mr. Cat or Mr. this or Mr. Chinaman, Mr. Indian. That means if, in my next life, I become Mr. such and such instead of Mr. Ford, then all the activities that I have done as Mr. Ford is simply waste of time. That he does not know. This is ignorance. And one who has conquered this ignorance, he is Arjuna. Is it clear?
Am I right? In the beginning of the Bible it is said like that? "God said, 'Let there be creation,' and there was creation. So what is your interpretation? Tell me what is your interpretation. Is there any possibility of interpretation? Can any one of you suggest? Then where is the opportunity of interpretation? One can explain. That is different thing, but the fact that God created, that will remain. That you cannot change. Now, how that creative process took place, that is explained in Bhāgavatam: First of all, there was sky, then there was sound, then there was this, that. This is the process of creation, that is another thing. But the fact, the primary fact that God created, that will remain at any circumstances. Not the rascal scientist says, "Oh, there was a chunk and it is split up, and there was these planets. Perhaps this and likely this," all this nonsense. They'll simply interpret, "likely," "perhaps." That is not science—"likely," "perhaps." Why perhaps? Here is clear statement, "God created." That's all. Finish. Yes.
Śrī Yamunācārya says, "My dear Lord," bhavantam evānucaran nirantaraḥ, "when I shall be fully engaged in Your service?" This is the process of being freed from all anxiety. Just like this child. This child is restless. He's going here, going there. But if the child is given some engagement, toy, which he likes, then she will remain there pacified and will not disturb anyone. That is natural. Similarly, we are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. So long we are not again linked up with His service, with His... So long we are not again reestablished in our lost relationship with Kṛṣṇa, we shall remain restless. That is our natural condition. Just like the child is crying, restless. But as soon as the mother takes the child on the lap, the child is immediately pacified. Why? Because the child wants that. She cannot express what she wants. She is crying. But she has no language to express, but she can express her feelings. As soon as she is on the lap of the mother, she understands, "Now I am fully satisfied." You can also understand. So even there is no language, there is a stage of satisfaction. That stage is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As soon as one comes to the stage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he'll be satisfied. And unless he comes to that stage, he'll always be disturbed, full of anxieties.
Daily you are fighting to exist. Utilize this fighting for Kṛṣṇa, then your life is successful. Yuddhyasva mām anusmara (BG 8.7). It is not that, oh, fighting is stopped. Fighting you have to do so long you are in this material world. Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not mean to become lazy. You have to act practically for Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So everything will remain the same. But when it is done in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that means you are making progress, spiritual realization. And, doing that, if you are so fortunate that always thinking of Kṛṣṇa and dying for Kṛṣṇa, then your life is successful. You at once transferred to Kṛṣṇaloka. This is the process, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
So you haven't got to do anything. Simply you have to act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and for Kṛṣṇa. Then your life is successful. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: yat karoṣi yad juhoṣi yad aśnāsi yat tapasyasi kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam (BG 9.27). Now, yat karoṣi. You have to do something. You have to work. Kṛṣṇa does not say, "Oh, because you are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you, you simply..." If you can, simply can think of Kṛṣṇa, it is very good. But in our present position, that is not possible, because we are not so advanced that we can simply think of Kṛṣṇa. But simply think of Kṛṣṇa is automatically done if you work for Kṛṣṇa.
Just like father, mother, never cheats. When the son inquires from the parent, the parent gives exact information, right information. Similarly, if we get right information from the right person, that is perfect knowledge. If you want to reach to the conclusion by speculation, that is imperfect, inductive process. That will never become perfect. It will remain imperfect for all the time. So we get information from the perfect person, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore whatever we speak, that is perfect because we don't speak anything which is not spoken by Kṛṣṇa or authorities who have accepted Kṛṣṇa. That is called disciplic succession. So our process is, process of acquiring knowledge, is very easy and perfect. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We cannot say anything which is not accepted by the authorities coming from Kṛṣṇa. And in the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa recommends this process of knowledge: evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). "This knowledge, formerly, all the great saintly kings..." Formerly, there was monarchy. Just like nowadays also, the government is authority. Your President is authority. So in the days of monarchical king, government, the monarch or the king is head of the government. He is authority. But formerly, those authorities, those kings, were ṛṣis, great learned scholars, ṛṣis, great devotees. They were not ordinary men. That system of government was very nice. One person, well talented, well trained as the head of the government, very peacefully he could execute the governmental function. There were many instances, the Vedic civilization, how the kings were perfect. You'll find from Dhruva Mahārāja's instances that Dhruva Mahārāja went to the forest to search out God, and he found out.
Pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate, pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya (Iso Invocation). And that love will never be ended. Pūrṇa. Love of Kṛṣṇa is so complete that you go on distributing this love; it will never be expended. It will remain the same stock. So I am very glad to see you in this temple. Please try to understand our philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We have got books, and at the same time we have got the simple method, chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa, in which even a small child can take part. The small... Most erudite scholar also can take part, and an innocent child who has no education, no literary sense, he can also take part equally. And equally, both of them take the same advantage. A small child who comes before the Deity and dances and claps, he is getting the result. Don't think that it is in vain. He is also getting the same... Just like fire. Either a child touches or an adult touches, fire's action will be there, equal. Similarly, anyone who is coming in this temple, offering obeisances, taking little prasāda, joining with the chanting, hearing some talks, everyone will be benefited spiritually. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
And there is subtle body: mind, intelligence and ego. Just like we have got shirt and coat. So when we give up this gross body, we are carried by the subtle body to another gross body. So I am not giving up. Actually, I am not giving up this body. I am giving up this... Just like sometimes you give up the coat, but your underwear remains, and you take another coat or..., similarly, my, the subtle body will remain with me so long I am not emancipated or liberated from material condition. So presently when I give up this body, so I am carried by the subtle mind. And at the time of death, the condition of my mind will carry me to a particular type of body. And there are 8,400,000's of bodies. We may accept any of them according... That will be given by superior authority. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). Just like in huge, big establishment, management, a man is promoted by the superior authority or sometimes he is degraded, similarly, in this form of human body we have got intelligence to understand about God, about ourself, our relationship with God. If we don't utilize this body for this purpose, there is every possibility to be glided down in the animal kingdom.
The same example. You drink water in different pots, either golden pots or earthen pot—it doesn't matter—but the taste of the water is the same. It is not different. Simply because you put the water in a golden pot, therefore it does not mean that the taste of the water also will change. No. The taste will remain the same.
So we are trying simply to taste the same water in different pots, sometimes in the pot of the body of a dog, sometimes in the pots of the body of a hog and sometimes in the pot, in the body of a human being. So this taste is common for everyone. The human developed consciousness is meant for something else, not for tasting these things—eating, sleeping, sex life and defending. That developed consciousness is meant for understanding what is God. But in the modern civilization that higher developed consciousness is being utilized for changing the pot. Suppose I have come here in Laguna Beach by nice..., on a nice motorcar. So it is a pot only, that's all. I could come here walking or in another vehicle. So there was no difference. It would have taken little more time. But we are thinking, because we have got this motorcar instead of a bullock cart, we are advanced in civilization. That is the mistake. Because either you travel on a bullock cart or in a motorcar, your business is to transport from one place to another, that's all. It may save some time. You may feel some extra pleasure. No pleasure actually. Rather, bullock cart is comfortable because this motorcar, you are always thinking, "There may not be any accident."
"I am, we, Americans, we are proprietor of this portion," "Indians, we are proprietor of this portion." But actually, we are not proprietor. I, I said to Americans several times that "That hundred years ago you were not proprietor of this land. You came, immigrated from Europe. And now, who can say, after two hundred years, who will remain the proprietor? But the land is there." So this temporary proprietorship is also ignorance. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. God is the supreme friend of everyone. He is sitting within the heart. He's trying to advise me, "My dear living entity, you do like this." In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo: (BG 15.15) "I am sitting in everyone's heart." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca: "Due to My presence, one can remember, one can forget." Forget also. That is due to the Supersoul. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam. By knowledge—Veda means knowledge—by advancement of knowledge, one should know what is God. That is perfect knowledge. Otherwise, eating, sleeping, mating knowledge is there in the animals. This is not knowledge. You must have perfect knowledge. Then you'll be happy. Then you'll be peace. And if you are misguided, bewildered, mad, then how you can be happy? So this knowledge is obtained, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante: after struggling many, many, birth after birth. Bahūnām. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān. "One who is actually in knowledge, one who is wise, māṁ prapadyate: he surrenders unto Me."
"Under which legal protection I will be safe." You have to approach a good lawyer. You cannot say that "I'll defend myself. I will do." No, that is not possible. When you are diseased, you have to consult the physician. Therefore if you want to know what is dharma, then you have to approach these twelve great personalities. Otherwise it will remain durbodham, very difficult to understand. Although it is very pure, because I am impure, I will not be able to understand. Guhyaṁ visuddhaṁ dur..., yaṁ jñātvā amṛtam aśnute.
And if you are fortunate enough to understand what is religion, then you become immortal; next life is immortal life. This is the purpose of dharma. We should not be satisfied that "I have got a dharma made by somebody, my some relative or somebody else." That is not dharma. Dharma means to understand God. It doesn't matter whether you are Christian or Hindu or Muslim. It doesn't matter. If you think that by your principle, you have understood God and you have learned how to love God, and you have learned how to obey God, that dharma is perfect. That religious system is perfect. It may go on under any name, it doesn't matter. But if you have achieved the result, that is wanted. Just like if you pass your M.A. examination. It doesn't matter whether you pass it from London University or Calcutta University or Berlin University. You have passed your examination. That will be taken into consideration. So similarly, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). That system of religion is perfect by which one can learn what is God and how to love God. That is perfect.
And as this material world is made of material ingredients, similarly, there is another world. That information you can get from Bhagavad-gītā. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). There is another nature, another manifestation of nature. That is spiritual. What is the distinction? The distinction is when this material world will be annihilated, that will remain. Just like I am spirit soul. When this body is annihilated, I am not annihilated. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). After the destruction of this body, the soul is not destroyed. Soul remains there in the subtle body: mind, intelligence and ego. So that mind, intelligence and ego, that carries him to another gross body. That is called transmigration of the soul. This gross body, this body, even in our experience during this lifetime, we have experienced so many gross bodies came and went away. Just like I was a child, so I possessed one gross body, child's body. That came and gone away. I had a boy's body; that came and gone away. A young man's body I had, but that came and gone away. Similarly, this body, old man's body, it has come, and it will also go. So as in spite of so many other bodies came and went, similarly, when this body will no longer exist, I'll transfer myself or transmigrate into another gross body. This is called transmigration of the soul.
So Kṛṣṇa, about Kṛṣṇa it is said that He is the supreme controller and He has got His form, His body, which is not made of these material ingredients.
These words are there. And he's living in Vṛndāvana; he does not know who is his prabhu. This thing is going on. (aside:) You can go behind him. Yes. This man is... You are dozing. Hm.
So, so long one will remain in the bodily concept of life, he cannot understand prabhu, or Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. So to understand this prabhu it requires many, many births. That is also said in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). Because foolish persons cannot understand prabhu. Another place Kṛṣṇa says,
- na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
- prapadyante narādhamāḥ
- māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
- āsuriṁ-bhāvam āśritāḥ
- (BG 7.15)
So this... We, our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to understand the prabhu, who is prabhu, who is the master, who is the Supreme Absolute. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement: to understand the supreme prabhu, or master, or controller, and surrender unto Him. This is the process, simple process. That prabhu you can under..., cannot understand by mental speculation. That is not possible. Nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyo na bahunā śrutena. There are many Vedantists, many scholars in Vedic literature, but they do not know who is his prabhu. They will say, "prabhu," but I ask him, "Who is your prabhu?" That they cannot say.
Sat means eternal, and cit means full of knowledge, and ānanda means bliss. So our body, this hand, this leg, this body, is not sac-cid-ānanda. It is not eternal; it will be finished. But God's body will never be finished. That is the difference. He has got His body, and I have got my body. But this body will be finished at a certain date, but His body will remain eternally. That is the difference between God's body and my body. Sat and cit. His body or He Himself knows everything, past, present and future, but I do not know what is beyond this wall. Therefore my knowledge is always imperfect, and God's knowledge is perfect. This is sac, cit. And ānanda. You see in our temple is... God is in dancing always. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, you will never see there is crying. No. Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa is enjoying. Kṛṣṇa is enjoying in the company of Rādhārāṇī. This is blissfulness. And although we have got our wife, there are so many difficulties to maintain. That's it. He has got His body, but His body is different from our this body. Although apparently He has got two hands, two legs, but they are unlimitedly potential, full of bliss. That's a... God can expand. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati: (BG 18.61) "The Lord is situated in everyone's heart." But we cannot do that. I cannot even know what you are feeling, pains and pleasure. But God He can know. Otherwise why we offer prayer to God? He knows. In this way you have to study what is God. Although apparently He has got two hands, two legs, but that hands and legs are not like ours. We have got our hands and legs. That is within this body. Just like your coat has got hand, but that hand is not real hand—the real hand is within the coat—similarly, we have got also hands and legs, but that is within this material body.
Departure Talks
So I am traveling all over the world. I am going to see how things are going in Dallas or New Vrindaban and another... So my touring is natural. I have started this movement. I want to see that it is going on nicely. So you kindly help me. Don't deviate. That is my only request. (starts to cry) Then you will remain solid.
Philosophy Discussions
Prabhupāda: That is misleading. Nobody can ascertain in that way. That is not possible. In the śāstras it is said that panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamya. He is thinking he is a man living for fifty or sixty or a hundred years. But if somebody is there, just like modern, these sputnik scientists, they say that if one can go forty thousands of years at the speed of light, he can approach the topmost planet. So śāstra says even one goes forty thousands of years, still you won't find where is Kṛṣṇa, where is Kṛṣṇa's abode. Not only at the speed of light, but he says the speed of mind and air. Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyo vāyor athāpi manaso muni-puṅgavānām: (Bs. 5.34) still, the subject matter which is beyond my senses will remain the same, beyond my senses. This material attempt will not help. Never. There is another verse that adhane gopī chindan vidhena ataḥ pudedevo padamjadayan (?): "Dear Lord, a devotee who has got a little grace from your lotus feet, padamjadaya (?), he can understand You. Others, they may speculate for millions of years. Still it is not possible." Just like Kṛṣṇa says that manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu: (BG 7.3) "Out of many millions of people, one is interested to make his life successful, and out of millions of successful..." Successful means one who understands that I am not this body. You ask, you take census, in this Nairobi city, you will find that 99.9%, or more than that, people do not know what he is. Everyone knows that "I am this body." So perfection of life means one who understands that "I am not this body..." They become impersonalists, something like that, or voidists. Out of them—those who have understood perfection, that "I am not this body"—one can understand Kṛṣṇa. Out of many thousands of people who have attained actual perfect. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is actually not so easy, but these devotees are actually realizing Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That's, what is called, that is the nature. First, first of all something is created, then it develops, it stays for some time, then it becomes old, dwindling, and then finished. This is called six changes of sarvika (?), of anything material. But a spirit soul is not material. He is not subjected to all these changes. This is our practical experience. The body is changing but spirit soul is the same. He remembers that "I had this body, a child's body. I have this young boy's body." He remembers; therefore he is eternal. The change is taking place of the body, so therefore the soul has nothing to do with the bodily changes. He has got his perpetual duty, perpetual activity—that is devotional service. So he has to be trained up in that perpetual duty, then he will stop this process of bodily changes, he will remain in his eternal body, spiritual body. That is going back to home, back to Godhead.
Hayagrīva: So the creative evolution must necessarily be the evolution of the soul.
Prabhupāda: No.
Hayagrīva: No.
Prabhupāda: Soul is eternal. Soul is ever-existing. There is no question of evolution or..., that it is according to the body. So long he is in the material existence and bodily concept of life, he is thinking that a better body is evolution and a lower body... But if his consciousness is changed, then there is no chance of changing, different bodies. He remains in his eternal body.
Hayagrīva: Well the basic contradiction, it seems, between Bergson and the Vedic version is that of the evolution of the universe.
Prabhupāda: Record is there already, Mahābhārata, and those who have seen, they have confirmed it. Vyāsadeva has confirmed, Nārada has confirmed. Arjuna talked with Him personally, he has confirmed, and everything is there in the record, but you don't believe. Then how you can be convinced? Neither you have got perfect senses to see. Then what is the way to convince you? You will remain always in darkness. There is no way out. You can, within your dark well, you can go on imagining, Dr. Frog, but you will never have perfect knowledge.
Hayagrīva: Well that's the conclusion of John Dewey. Most of the other points have already been dealt with. (end)
Prabhupāda: And you understood because you came in contact of a spiritual master. Therefore it is needed. It is essential. One must have a spiritual master to know things as they are. You cannot speculate; then you will remain in darkness.
Devotee: How can one see the spiritual master in darkness? If you are standing in a dark room...
Prabhupāda: The same thing. When you go on inquiring, then the question of spiritual master comes, when inquiry is there within yourself.
Devotee: But if we are in ignorance...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But the inquiry is there. That inquiry will make you wise by inquiring from the spiritual master or the authority. But the inquiry is there. Human life means..., developed consciousness means..., the animal cannot inquire. The human being can inquire. That inquiry will give him everything—the spiritual master, knowledge, wisdom—everything. But inquiry; simply this inquiry. That inquiry is there.
Śyāmasundara: This understanding of Husserl's philosophy stood as a lower stage now, because eventually we come to his description...
Prabhupāda: That is also his foolishness, because a child can be trained up to become a brahmacārī so that he will have no inclination for sex. It depends on the child's training. The unscrupulous father and mother, they enjoy sex life before the child, and they imitate. I have seen it. I have seen it in Agra. There are two small children. In life, what do they know? The female child laid down, and the man child, just like they have seen father and mother-sex. He does not know anything, but he is imitating. So imitating, imitating, the sex life is there, it becomes prominent. Similarly, you train the children not to have any sense of sex life, he will become brahmacārī. So he has not studied. He has seen some abominable family's children. So they learn these things. Whatever you teach, they imitate. So if you keep the children aloof from this sex-life society, he will remain a brahmacārī. There is many instances. That is the Vedic civilization. The children are immediately, as soon as four, five years old, he is sent to the gurukula, and under the discipline he forgets sex life, practically. But still if he has little, that is natural when he is young man, so a guru sees that still tendency for sex life, he is allowed, "Go on, marry and become a gṛhastha." Otherwise, if he is perfectly controlled over sex life, he becomes a sannyāsī, vānaprastha, the whole life. Just like my Guru Mahārāja, he was never married. So he could..., that can be trained. Why he is saying the child is? Child can be trained. Even without sex he can live throughout whole life without any disturbance. That can be trained up. It is a question of education.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Guru. Guru, that is required: tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). That is Vedic process. To have, to possess perfect knowledge one must have guru, and guru means one has..., one is actually representative of God, not theoretically, but one who has practically seen and experienced God. We have to approach such guru then by service and by surrender, and by sincere inquiries we shall be able to understand what is God. That is required. The speculation is no use. Athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvaya-prasāda-leśānugṛhīta eva hi, jānāti tattvam (SB 10.14.29). This is the statement of Vedic literature. "My Lord, one who has received a little mercy and favor of Your Lordship, he can understand. Others may speculate for millions and millions of years, avacintya-tattve. Still they will remain in the fathom of inconceivable energy. There is no possibility." This is not the process. It clearly described in the Bhāgavata, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55), simply through the process of bhakti. Bhakti means śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23), hearing, chanting about Viṣṇu, always remembering Him. Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām (BG 9.14). That is the process. Always glorify the Lord, and devotee's only business is to glorify. That is devotee. Naivodvije para duratyaya-vaitaraṇyās tvad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ (SB 7.9.43). A devotee's consciousness is always drowned in the ocean of the pastimes of the Supreme Lord, unlimited activities, and devotees always think of that activities. Tvad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta, that is, means that drowned in the ocean of the activities of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So that is transcendental bliss, and one should learn how to be always merged in the ocean of God consciousness. That training is given by the spiritual master; therefore one must have, ācāryavān puruṣo veda. One who is under the direction of ācārya, he knows everything about God. (break)
Prabhupāda: He has predicted very nice. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, which is above everything, either Christianism or Marxism or capitalism or anything. It is based on Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So actually it is a fact. Kṛṣṇa says that if you adopt this principle of life, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you will remain above all sinful reaction of life and make progress spiritually, gradually.
- mām upetya kaunteya
- duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam
- nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ
- saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ
- (BG 8.15)
If you cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then the result will be that "The devotee will come back to Me. And one who attains to Me, he hasn't got to go back again to this material world." In another place the same thing is said: tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). "Those who are Kṛṣṇa conscious they, giving, after giving up this body"—everyone has to give up this body—"he does not accept any more the material body. He comes to Me." "Comes to Me" means "He comes to Me in his spiritual body." So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to give up this material world and go back to home, back to Godhead.
Prabhupāda: As soon as you say freedom, it is freedom of some living being. Matter has no freedom. So as soon as you speak of freedom, that freedom must be a living being. A huge mountain, dead mountain, or any dead body, it has no freedom. It is lying down. You keep it with some chemical process and the body will remain lying down, just like the Egyptian mummies, there are so many. So it has lost its freedom because the active principle is not there. As soon as you say of freedom, the freedom is only applicable to a living being, not to the matter. Matter has no freedom.
Śyāmasundara: He says that matter is something and that the living being is nothing.
Prabhupāda: No. That is his nonsense. He has no perfect knowledge. If matter is something and the basic principle on which the matter stands, it is nothing, that is the most imperfect statement. These are all nonsense philosophy.
Śyāmasundara: He says that we are condemned to be free.
Prabhupāda: Who has condemned you? (indistinct)
Śyāmasundara: He denies the existence of God.
Prabhupāda: Then who has condemned you? As soon as you say you are condemned, there must be somebody who has condemned you.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I can take it in this sense. If the Communist idea is spiritualized. So long the Communist idea will remain materialized, it is not final. We have got Communistic idea. Just like we believe... They believe that the state is the owner; we believe God is the owner. So this state is a small state, Russian state. They can be satisfied, but because it is wrong application... State is not the owner. Real owner is God. So from state, when they come to the conclusion, "Not the state but God is owner," then their Communistic idea will be fulfilled. And as they say that everything must be done for the state, we are actually teaching perfect Communism. We are teaching that Kṛṣṇa is the owner. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the supreme enjoyer. Everything is..." Just like in our society we are doing everything for Kṛṣṇa because we know Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer. Sarva-loka-maheś... He is the proprietor. So this Communistic idea is vague, but it can be perfected when they come to the conclusion, according to the Bhagavad-gītā, that Kṛṣṇa is the supreme proprietor; He is the supreme enjoyer; He is the supreme friend of everyone. Then the people will be happy: "Oh, we have got a friend like Kṛṣṇa." Just like Arjuna was certain that "Kṛṣṇa is my charioteer. Oh, I am victorious." And it is confirmed, yatra yogeśvaraḥ kṛṣṇaḥ: (BG 18.78) "Where Yogeśvara, Kṛṣṇa, is there," yatra pārtho dhanur-dharaḥ, tatra śrīr vijayo, "there victory and everything is there." So this is an idea. This idea can be welcomed provided they are prepared to replace the so-called state by God. Then it is...
Prabhupāda: And Lenin. So that leadership wanted. Now the question is who will be the leader—Kṛṣṇa or Lenin? That is to be understood. Without leader, either the Communist or the theist cannot work. So, so far accepting leadership, the philosophy is one. Now the question will remain, "Whose leadership is perfect?" That is to be decided. But the Communist cannot avoid leadership.
Hayagrīva: Like Comte, Marx believed that atheism was unnecessary because it was negative denial. He felt that socialism is positive assertion. He says, "Atheism no longer has any meaning, for atheism is a negation of God and postulates the existence of man through this negation. But socialism as socialism no longer stands in any need of such a mediation. It proceeds from the practically and theoretically sensuous consciousness of man and of nature the essence. Socialism is man's positive self-consciousness no longer mediated throught the annulment of religion, just as real life is man's positive reality through Communism." So that Communism really has nothing whatsoever to do with religion.
Prabhupāda: No. Our point is that religion is not sentiment. Leadership has to be accepted, either by the Communist or the theist or atheist. There is leadership. So when the leadership is selected and the direction given by the leader, you can take it as some "ism." So religion is the same thing. When we accept the leadership of God and His direction, that is religion. I don't think on principle the Communist can change this idea. The same leader is Lenin or Stalin, and he is giving his direction, and people must follow it. So where is the difference of philosophy? Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is there, His instruction is there, and we are following. So where is the difference in fact?
Prabhupāda: And Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad..., yah śāstra-vidhim. Śāstra from that śas-dhātu. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya, giving it up, decides by his whims, na siddhim avāpnoti, they'll never get any siddhi, perfection. Therefore the śāstra should be mediator. But these people have no śāstras. They have got simply that barrel of gun. That's all. And that is very rude. And it will never come to perfection. For the temporary time, this party may win or that party may win. That will never... That is the position in the modern world. They have no authoritative śāstra. They manufacture their own way, and therefore there is no peace. First World War, Second World War, Third World War, and there cannot be any peace. As soon as you become strong, you declare war. Hitler thought, "I am now strong. Let me declare war." And another strong party, America came, Russia came. He was killed. So this is no conclusion. And even after Hitler's being killed, there is no conclusion. So this sort of conflict will never bring any peace. That will go on. That is struggle for existence. That is fighting like animals. Two dogs fighting, two hogs fighting, but that is not conclusion. That fighting will go on so long people will remain as dogs and hogs. That will go on. There is no question of peace.
Śyāmasundara: So real progress only comes through...
Prabhupāda: Authoritative decision. If we accept that, then that is real conclusion.
Śyāmasundara: He says that there is conflict, and you say that...
Prabhupāda: No. That is a nonsense proposal. It is a nonsense proposal. Just like sometimes we are questioned by some rascals that "Swamijī, if everyone becomes God conscious, goes to back to home, then who will remain here?" (laughter) Just see the nonsense. He is anxious, who will remain here. He is not anxious for himself. (laughter) It is an argument that "Everyone becomes honest, then who will go to the jail? (laughter) To keep up the jail is very important business. You see? So these are foolish questions. You see?
Śyāmasundara: In his time, 1880, 1890, everyone was very optimistic about the future of man. They thought, through scientific discovery, that everyone would become...
Prabhupāda: That is nonsense because they think, "Whatever we like, by nature's way we shall be promoted." Just like in some meeting in Mombassa somebody asked that, after... Some Aurobindo group, that... No, theosophist. That one man is there; he has no degree. So why not degree?
Śyāmasundara: ...then he goes back.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If he has got elevation, he has degradation. This is common sense affairs. If you become rich, you can become poor also. Why that once you become rich and there is no question of becoming poor? Is that guaranteed? These nonsense questions are asked even by so-called theosophist and so many there are. You see. They have no common sense even.
Prabhupāda: He, he is confused because he is also speculating. So these things will remain confused, whether the Absolute Truth is person, imperson. Generally, without spiritual advancement nobody can understand about the Absolute Truth, and so he, that doubt continues. But when there is question of love between the Absolute and the relative, there must be the personal conception, and actually He is person, Kṛṣṇa. So by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa, when he gets in touch with the devotee, his impersonal conception of the Absolute is removed, and then he worships the personal aspect of the Absolute Truth, Kṛṣṇa, and devotee. Then his life is successful.
Hayagrīva: Concerning the fall of the soul, Plotinus believes that the human soul never entirely leaves the spiritual realm.
Prabhupāda: Because he is constitutionally spiritual being, he is not any product of this material world. He is part and parcel of the Supreme One. But he is embodied by the material elements, and the material elements requires change. It becomes old. Just like our shoes, our dress, it becomes old. I can have one shirt and coat, but as soon as I change the body, the shirt and coat is no more fitting the body, so I have to change. So material life means to change. It is called jagat. Jagat means changing. But we are eternal, the same spirit soul. That this material life is not very happy, because it will change. Even if we are in the very comfortable condition of life or in miserable condition of life, it will change to better or lower grade of life.
Prabhupāda: Because there is nothing but God, so how he can be without God? Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Everything is God's expansion. How it can be sometimes in God and sometimes not in God? When he is not in God, that means he is māyā. Now māyā is also God, mama māyā. So how he can be without God? That is illusion. Just like these criminal. He thinks, "I can be independent of the government." No. That is not possible. Either he will remain in jail or outside the jail, you are under the government. But he thinks that "I am free." That is foolishness. He is not free at anytime.
Hayagrīva: Now he analyzes theism, which is the personal aspect, and pantheism, the impersonal aspect, and he finds both defective in themselves, and so what is his position? This is his position: "If the question is asked whether the speculative conception of God or Deity which has been advanced here as part of the empirical treatment of space/time, and has appeared to be verified by religious experience belongs to theism or pantheism, the answer must be that it is not strictly referable to either of them. Taken by itself..."
Prabhupāda: That is his mistake. As you have explained that the sky is also with reference to God... The sky is explained as the heart of God, and the water is explained as the semina of God, the moon is explained as the mind of God, the sun is explained as the eyes of God, the land is explained as the foot of God. So everything is with reference to God. So for a person who understands God, there is nothing existing without God. So how God can be separate? That is the fact. So pantheism or any "ism" you take, it has reference with God. What he says?
| Page Title: | Will remain (Lectures, Other) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 17 of Nov, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=45, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 45 |