Śyāmasundara: He says that the free will, which creates itself or realizes itself is the truest of all realities.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So if by free will if you choose to surrender to Kṛṣṇa they you'll get your real free will, freedom. Otherwise you are under the clutches of māyā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot surpass the stringent laws of material nature, that is not...
Śyāmasundara: He says, contrary to Kant, he says that the practical reason is primary, is the first thing, that what is practical is superior to what is...
Prabhupāda: Practical, this means, suppose I want to do something, I do not know, then I go and ask a superior person who knows it. Just like when you drive your car, you are going somewhere, so you take the direction from the signpost, this way go, this point here, this village. Similarly, for practical purpose you have to approach a person who knows. That is practical. And if you think that I shall do it myself, without consulting anyone, that is not practical, that is theoretical. You will be misled. At least we are prone to be misled.
Śyāmasundara: He says that the reason is subordinate to the will.
Prabhupāda: Yes, thinking, feeling, willing, so willing, I want to do something, I apply my reason, that is intelligence. If we do it intelligently then it is good, and if I do it foolishly then it is bad. Will is there.
Śyāmasundara: Will is (indistinct) will is primary reason.
Prabhupāda: No. After reasoning, then you will. After reasoning.
Śyāmasundara: First reasoning, then willing. He says the opposite. He says that reason is subordinate to will.
Prabhupāda: That can be also.
Śyāmasundara: He sees the will as practical, practical reason...
Prabhupāda: This thinking, feeling, willing, they are all taken together as reasoning. What do you think? What is the psychology? Hayagrīva(?) Prabhu? What is there? Thinking, feeling, willing, do you think that you shall be a rich man, you think. Then you make your process how you will become a rich man, then work will (indistinct). Or you will, thinking, feeling, willing, "Yes, I must be rich man," then how you can in this way, that way. But intelligence is above thinking, feeling, willing. Everyone, a dog also thinks he'll feel, he has no intelligence. He has intelligence (indistinct).
Śyāmasundara: He says that all reasoning comes about as a result of our desires or our will, whatever we are willing, then we begin to reason.
Prabhupāda: That is not willing, that is thinking. That is not willing.
Śyāmasundara: Rationalizing.
Prabhupāda: Yes, thinking. I am thinking to become like this. If we generally say like that, "I am thinking." Is it not?
Śyāmasundara: I am thinking to go somewhere.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, I am thinking. So if there is any difference between thinking, feeling and willing then thinking first.
Śyāmasundara: Will, willing something is more like desiring something, isn't it?
Prabhupāda: That desiring begins from thinking.
Śyāmasundara: Contemplating the objects of the senses one (indistinct). He says that if one combines rational thought with his will then this will help him towards self-realization.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Śyāmasundara: If he combines rational thought with willing...
Prabhupāda: So wherefrom the rational thought comes?
Śyāmasundara: That is an a priori fact, that I think therefore I am.
Devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: But we cannot..., pure thought process, I cannot do anything more than think myself. I can think that I think therefore I am.
Prabhupāda: You can think, but if you are helped by somebody else who knows the way, then it becomes easier. You are thinking of driving a car. If somebody expert... (break) ...that is practical. Yes.
Śyāmasundara: He says that it is very difficult because the nonego objects are always trying to lead us astray.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore you have to take advantage of an experienced man who knows things. He does not accept any superior.
Śyāmasundara: He says that the moral goal, the moral reality of (indistinct) is the ultimate in superiority...
Prabhupāda: That morality we have already discussed, what is the morality. You can create your own morality, I can create my own morality. What is actual morality?
Śyāmasundara: Maybe that's a good place to end. (end)