Prabhupāda: What is the nonsense independence? You are dependent on the laws of nature, and you are thinking independent. How much foolishness it is. This is psychology. They are wrongly thinking. How to correct them? Is it not? Are they not wrongly thinking? Everyone is thinking, "I am independent. I can do whatever I like." How much foolish he is.
Dr. Gerson: That's what psychology's been trying to teach people: to do whatever they want to do because they have the power.
Prabhupāda: That's it. But can he do anything as he likes?
Dr. Gerson: That's right.
Prabhupāda: If he . . . as he likes, if he infects some disease, he must suffer from the disease. Where is his independence? If you infect some disease, infectious disease, then you must suffer from the disease. That is nature's law. So where is your independence? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). It is all described. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Why there are so many varieties of life? Because he has associated with a particular type of modes of nature and he has got the body. Without any human sense he has learned to eat anything and everything, without any discrimination. Therefore nature will give the body of a pig, "All right, you eat anything up to stool. Up to stool you can eat." So how can you stop it? And because nature has given this body, he is relishing very good taste from stool. By this body, you cannot relish what is enjoyment in the stool. But because he has no discrimination of food, nature has given him, "All right, you can eat up to stool." Human life is meant for civilization, and they are trying to be naked. So next life will be, "All right, you remain naked standing as tree for five thousand years." How can you stop it?