Prabhupāda: They are keeping the machine. What you will study the machine? Machine, according to his karma, that particular person this machine is given by God. Just like if you pay good price, you get a good machine. Similarly, bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). So God is supplying him the machine and the circumstances to work. They do not find out the man who is working on the machine; they are studying the machine. Such a foolish attempt.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So they work only with matter, so they forget about spirit.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is their folly. Therefore, they are rascal. That is described in the Bhāgavata, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke, sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). They are animals, so what knowledge we can expect from these rascal animals? They are animals. They may pass on as big, big scientist to another animal, but they cannot pass on as big scientist to us.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have to be spiritualized to pass.
Jayatīrtha: Just like so many times on (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: We... Anyone who is simply understanding this matter, we immediately accept him as an animal, that's all. The animals take it.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But majority of the people are all like that.
Prabhupāda: So, therefore, they are all animals. Fools, rascals. Abodha-jāto, they have been described—all rascals, fools. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma. So long they do not come to the point of understanding spirit soul, they are simply rascals. And whatever they are doing, simply being defeated actually. The so-called scientific research, simply their defeat. What they have gained? That is stated in Bhāgavata. Parābhava. Parābhava means defeat. So long they do not come to the understanding of self, the spirit soul, they are simply rascals and fools. And what the rascals and fools can become victorious? They will never become victorious. They will always be subdued by the laws of nature. Parābhava, defeat simply. Whatever scientific discoveries, there is simply defeat, not conquering. That old scientist, he could not check his old age, so what is the value of his scientific discoveries? He could not check his growing in age, so what is the value of scientific advancement? He will die. They cannot check death, they cannot check old age. Nobody can check death. Then what is advancement? The real problems are there. Parābhavas tāvad. Parābhava, simply defeat, wasting time being defeated by the laws of nature. They cannot understand anything properly.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Then why don't they search for real knowledge?
Prabhupāda: Therefore, they are rascal. Why they are rascal? They will not take real knowledge. Just like children: obstinate. The father says, "Don't touch, don't touch this." But he says, "No, touch," and he touches. As soon as he touches it, he (makes noise like one in pain).
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Burned.
Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness. They will not take the experience of Kṛṣṇa; they will manufacture their own experience. That is their folly. Therefore, they are called..., they have been addressed as mūḍhāḥ. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Lowest of the mankind, mūḍhāḥ, they do not surrender (indistinct). They will not take the intelligence given by Kṛṣṇa. They will manufacture their own intelligence. This is their folly. Therefore, they are rascals. Our process is all the big ācāryas, they are taking knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, Vyāsadeva, Kṛṣṇa's representative or guru. That is our process. And they are manufacturing their own knowledge. They do not know the system; they take it as dogmatic. Just like we speak of Vaikuṇṭha from experienced knowledge. They will not believe it. But they do not know what are these planets, still they will not believe it. They cannot say anything except their home planet. Even they do not know what are the... They have not studied all the corners of this planet. Therefore, they sometimes say, "Oh, this discovery, this is our first discovery." Discovery means they do not know so many things. That is discovery. When they come to know, "Oh, it is working like this, (indistinct)." But the things are there. So they do not know so many things, still they are scientists.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They cannot think so many things because they are concentrated in a small area of even their own...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is we call kūpa-maṇḍūka-nyāya(?), the frog, Dr. Frog of the well. He cannot conceive what is Atlantic Ocean, but still he will theorize, "Atlantic Ocean may be so big, so big, so big." What experience you can get Atlantic Ocean living in a three-foot well? That is going on. And if I ask you, "What is the measurement of the space?" You cannot say that. You cannot say that. But there is measurement (indistinct). It may be unlimited for you, but as it is a created thing, there must be measurement. Any created thing has measurement. Unless they agree to submit... They must submit. Just like you have submitted, you are (indistinct), so you can understand God. This is the only qualification. Therefore, Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66), "First of all submit, rascal, then I shall (indistinct), you will be able to understand the truth." There is no possibility of understanding the whole thing by challenge. That is (indistinct). Their only challenge (indistinct).
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are challenging the nature.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are challenging the nature itself.
Prabhupāda: Nature, they cannot even challenging nature; they cannot understand the nature. And behind nature, there is God. So what they will understand God? They cannot understand the curtain by which God is hidden, and what they will understand God? This is a curtain. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya
yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ (BG 7.25). Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni (BG 9.4). Just like this planet, this universe, everything is resting on Him, but He cannot be found. Just like if you sit down on this chair, on this bench, I can see the bench you are sitting. But this whole universe is floating on something, but you cannot see on which it is floating. You are so limited. This universe is floating on water, just like (indistinct). Yaḥ kāraṇārṇava-jale bhajati sma yoga-nidrām anantam aśeṣa-bhūtam, viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā-viśeṣo govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi (Bs. 5.47). Each and every universe is coming out of the pores in the body of Viṣṇu, Mahā-Viṣṇu. Just like an infected person, he distributes infection by breathing. Is it not?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, these universes are coming from the breathing of the Maha-Visnu, and again it will wind up when it is inhaled. This is creation. So what they will understand? But we understand because we take the knowledge from experience. Here is experienced knowledge(?). They will simply bluff, "Yes, we are trying. In future we shall know." That's all.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are always hoping against hope, then trying to do something every time.
Prabhupāda: That is foolishness.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Even when experiments fail so many times, ten times, twenty times, still they are hoping, "Oh, this time I will get it." They do it.
Prabhupāda: Durāśayā. This is called durāśayā. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Everything is explained. They are called durāśayā, hope against hope, but it will never be fulfilled.