Expressions researched:
"white"
|"whitened"
|"whiteness"
|"whiter"
|"whites"
|"whitewash"
|"whitish"
Janārdana: Oh, you mean there's another place? You mean that storefront downstairs?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Janārdana: Oh, that place... It's a green color and the windows are covered with soap? The windows are painted white?
Prabhupāda: No. It's a big building, big store. And big signboard. (break) ...shall approach. (laughing) Somebody said, told, that is for sale?
Janārdana: There is a store for sale. No. I think what they mean, the business is for sale.
Prabhupāda: Oh, you have?
Allen Ginsberg: Yes. I got inside the temple. I was silent and made believe I was a mad, a madman. I had long hair, and I had pyjamas, white khadi, khadi cloth.
Prabhupāda: Just like some Punjabi.
Allen Ginsberg: So I went inside. And when anybody came to ask me anything, because I was afraid of opening my mouth...
Prabhupāda: There is no enemy of a dumb. Bhuvar śatru nyāya.
Allen Ginsberg: So I just kept my mouth closed and got down on my knees and touched their feet. So they all thought that I was crazy, and so they kept away from me. (laughter) So I got inside.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. So you had a nice view of Jagannātha?
Allen Ginsberg: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Haṁsadūta: "Patel Pola(?) of Chicago had observed that he was a construction worker doing a śūdra's work. It would not become necessary to allot the three lower castes to the foreign converts according to their professions. This will not be an easy task. Talking of profession reminds me of a still graver problem—that of the occupation or profession of the white sādhus. If I am not mistaken, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement would turn out legions of new white sādhus in the West whose only aim in life would be to propitiate their Lord Kṛṣṇa. They would be steeped in the bhakti-rasa and would not soil their hands with doing any work for such a mundane thing as earning a living."
Prabhupāda: They are not doing anything. Actually they are not doing anything. They are preaching only.
Guest (1) (Indian man): No, but he says that legions of sādhus, such white men, persons from West, become sādhus, then who will do this job of earning a living?
Prabhupāda: Why he is crying? If he is hungry, let him come here. We shall provide him. Why he is crying for that? What business he has got to cry, "What will they do?" What they will, that they know. Why he is crying? What is his business for crying for this future? If he is hungry, let him come and we shall provide him. This is not... That is a childish conception. "If everybody becomes sādhu, then what will be the nature of the society?" That is, never becomes. That never becomes.
Prabhupāda: But the old woman's crying.
Haṁsadūta: Do you want to hear the next letter? This is the second letter. "I do not see why you devoted two full pages to the article on 'Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa,' November 8th. Wearing a plain white sari, applying sandal paste on the forehead and wearing nose-rings do not transform one. Churning milk gopī fashion is no way to attain spiritual bliss. The statements made by the devotees of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement reflect an attitude of escapism."
Prabhupāda: Hm. Anyway, we are getting publicity.
Revatīnandana: The people who listen, they become very impressed. At many programs, the students, after I finish speaking and I answer some questions, they realize that we know something very completely. They become very interested. They come around and bring more questions. Very nice.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And you will get all ideas from our books. That is Indian śaṅkha? That in your hand, bangle, white bangle.
Woman: Ah, elephant?
Prabhupāda: It is called śaṅkha. From conchshell, it is made from conchshell. Where you have purchased it?
Woman: I'm afraid this is ivory.
Prabhupāda: Ivory? Oh. There is similar made from conchshell.
Prabhupāda: He's a nonsense. Vaibhava, prabhāvā, expansion of Kṛṣṇa. When the body is similar, but the color of the body different, that is called vaibhava. Just like Balarāma. Balarāma. Kṛṣṇa's body and Balarāma, there is no bodily difference, but Kṛṣṇa is blackish, Balarāma is whitish. These things are described in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya. You don't read it? Huh?
Devotee (2): Yes, it's from the Teachings of Lord Caitanya. I wanted some explanation about all this...
Prabhupāda: That explanation is there. Why you are asking me? That is... I do not remember exactly what is the features of Vaibhava. That is there. But the vaibhava, prabhāvā, vaibhava, vilāsa, there are detailed description of Kṛṣṇa's expansions. They are described there. You can refer to. Prabhāvā, vaibhava, vilāsa, they are expansions of Kṛṣṇa's different avatāra, incarnation, and part, part of incarnation. So it is a huge list, and it's not always possible to remember them in detail. Better refer to the book. Is that all right?
Devotee (2): Yes.
Girirāja: I'll sit on the white bench.
Prabhupāda: Then you can sit on...
Guest: How many are you here in Madras?
Girirāja: About fifteen are here in Madras now.
Guest: Fifteen or fifty?
Girirāja: Fifteen.
Prabhupāda: One-five.
Guest: One-five.
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is also. And they eat white man very... They like white.
Yadubara: In the pot.
Prabhupāda: They will mislead some white man and... In India also there is this class. In Assam side. They eat man. Man means they regularly sacrifice before the Goddess Durgā and eat. (indistinct), Rāvaṇa's brother. The Red Indians, they also eat in America. Do they not?
Yamunā: They used to. There are no left anymore.
Prabhupāda: "Used to" means who knows what they are doing now.
Yamunā: The white men came and killed them.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but they kill for eating. That is..., fighting or for taking possession, killing, that is everywhere. that is not extraordinary. But killing for eating a man, that is extraordinary.
Cintāmaṇi: Green.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Green. Green. In dancing mood, She is offering a betel nut to Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa is dancing and playing with flute. So this should be white and red. These are petals. It should be red. And this should be white. And a little black line. Is that all right? Then this. They should be all red. And the nails should be white, nails.
Cintāmaṇi: Also...
Prabhupāda: Hands red and nails, yes, you can make white. You can... Go on. So any other?
Cintāmaṇi: I made wigs, but maybe they are too long.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Cintāmaṇi: I made hair. But I don't know how long it should be.
Prabhupāda: That you can see Kṛṣṇa's picture.
Guest (1): ...the universalism of it's very appealing.
Prabhupāda: No, we are not manufacturing this idea. That it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ: (BG 14.4) in every species of life, whatever forms are there. And besides that, we take this body as dress. Just like your white shirt is not you. You are different from the white shirt. Similarly, one may have a body white or black, but he, as spirit soul, is different from the body. We are taking account of the person who is possessing the dress—not the dress, but the person. Just like I am talking with you, I am not talking with your shirt. I don't look to your shirt, whether you have put on a white shirt or black shirt. That is not my concern. I am concerned with you as a living being. This is our philosophy. We don't take account of the outward shirt and coat. This body, this gross body is just like coat, and within this gross body there is subtle body—mind, intelligence and ego. Within the subtle body, the spirit soul is there, and we are trying to deliver the spirit soul from these two kinds of entanglement, subtle and gross. That is our aim. The national movement or religious movement, that is more or less on the basis of the outward dress. One is Christian because he is born by a Christian father. Is it not? One is American because he is born on the land of America. We say that you are neither Christian nor American, Hindu, Muslim or Indian. You are servant of God eternally. Try to understand this fact, and make your life in that way. Then your life is successful. This is all.
Prabhupāda: Alike. (laughter) The dress is different, the spirit soul is the same. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said,
Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ. A learned, really learned man, he sees everyone on the same level, because he sees to the spirit and he is (indistinct) that a learned brāhmaṇa, a dog, an elephant, a low-born, everyone is on the same category of spirit soul. That is the vision of a learned scholar. He does not make any discrimination that "Here is a dog" or "Here is a very learned scholar." His vision is the dog is also entangled by this body and a learned scholar is also entangled by this body, but both the dog and the learned scholar, both of them are spirit soul. That is actual vision. The same example, that I am talking with you, not with your dress. I am not very much concerned with your white dress or black dress. I am concerned with you as person. Similarly, we are concerned with the soul, not with the outward body. That is our position.
Prabhupāda: That is all right, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, that is a, different stages. But the real education is that you have to die. You have to accept another body. What kind of body you are going to accept? If you do not know that what is this meaning of gṛhastha, and vānaprastha, and sannyāsa? It is all rascal. If you do not... You miss this real point, then what is the meaning of this? There's no meaning. Simply by dressing in white cloth one becomes gṛhastha? And simply by dressing one, in this saffron cloth, he becomes sannyāsī? By changing dress he becomes everything? He must know, that what is the aim of life. Everyone should know what is the ultimate of life.
Prabhupāda: That we are discussing. That was not a very (indistinct).
Śyāmasundara: The whole thing is that we're sort of at a crisis in India, in terms of our presence here. Our prestige has hit an all-time low simply because of our conduct, that's all. Not because of our teaching, or because we are white, or anything like that. It's just because of our conduct. It's been so bad. Abominable. We don't in any way compare with the Indian sannyāsīs in our conduct. So how can we expect to honor Śrīla Prabhupāda if we conduct ourselves like that? So it's part of our responsibilities as the leaders not to avoid it, not to avoid the other devotees, but to train them now, begin training them.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the Vaiṣṇava training. Now we should have our routine work. Just like here, punctually, as soon as I see seven, I ask, "When is he coming?" (indistinct). As soon as (indistinct), immediately I ask. So there may be more (indistinct), but the routine work must be followed. If somebody is slipping, the kīrtana is going on (indistinct) morning, (indistinct) is going on. So he maybe said that if you sleep like that then you cannot do it.
Prabhupāda: Jaya oṁ viṣṇupāda paramahaṁsa parivrājakācārya....So we are thinking we are very much fortunate to hear His Divine Grace Oṁ Viṣṇupāda Paramahaṁsa Parivrājakācārya Bhakti Raksaka Śrīdhara Mahārāja. He is, by age and experience, in both ways he is senior to me. I am also always fortunate to have his association for a very long timeperhaps since nineteen hundred and thirty or something like that. At that time, he did not accept sannyāsa; he just left home, vanaprastha. In his white dress he went to Allahabad. (Aside, to Śrīdhara Mahārāja:) Mahārāja, I think you remember this incident when you went to Allahabad.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the, the background is not solid.
Prabhupāda: No. Just like the one strata is like that. After an hour, it will be different. So what is the use of your studying this strata? Therefore it is called jagat. Jagat means always changing. The material world is always changing. Your body. This body will stay, say, for fifty years, hundred years. Then you get another body. That's all. Another body. Jagat means changing. Now this color is there. Say, after one hour it will be white. You see. Then you study this black color. Again you study the white color. Again this black color. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Chewing the chewed. That is your business. Just like seasonal changes. Now it is cold. Any moment, you'll have to get out (of) these clothes. It is very warm. So these changes are going on. The whole material cosmic manifestation is subjected to different types of changes. Therefore it is called jagat. Jagat means going, changing. Your body's changing. Similarly everything is changing. What is the eternity behind these changes? That is knowledge. That, the eternity, they do not find. Therefore they are disappointed: "It is void, zero. Eternity is zero." That's all. And when they are asked wherefrom the zero, varieties come...? Zero means there is nothing. So how the varieties come? Therefore Vedic conclusion, the varieties, there is, eternity variety. And this is only shadow of that variety. It is not eternal because it is shadow. But the real variety spiritual world, is there.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Opposite, one opposite to the other.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Just the opposite. Yes. You cannot understand light without darkness. This is relative. Unless there is darkness, how you can say: "This is light"? So opposite, you can say opposite. Now this, this knowledge is there. Everyone knows. But where is that absolute where the bad and good, the black and white, everything coincides? That is absolute. Everything is there. That is not distinction. Everything is there. That is called absolute. Brahman. That means, Brahman means the biggest. Now when you speak something big, so everything is included. Big means bad and good, everything is included. Otherwise, how it can be big? Big means... Just like if you, when you speak of Los Angeles, so there are so many things, bad and good, in Los Angeles, all included. Is it not? So Brahman means bṛhattva, being the largest. The largest means it contains everything. Just like the sky. We have got the idea. The sky means it, it, it contains everything universal. This is the idea of greatest. So athāto brahma jijñāsā means we are now studying the relative truth. I'm studying black. You're studying white. He's studying another, another. In this way. Partial. But what is that biggest thing which includes everything? That is called brahma-jijñāsā, to inquire about that thing. Just like you are studying chemistry. We are studying Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But there is something which contains the chemistry, Kṛṣṇa consciousness and everything. That is called Brahman. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The animal life the subject matter, a small animal, he's concerned where to eat, where to sleep, where to find my food, shelter. This is their business, no other business. They're not concerned with the biggest thing. But this human form of life is to inquire about the biggest. That includes everything. So next code is: Janmādyasya yataḥ. That biggest thing is the original source of everything, wherefrom everything has come. How to know that? Śāstra-yonitvāt. You have to learn it from the Vedas. In this way, sūtras are given, one after another. What is the nature of that thing? Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). In this way, all codes are there. And go on, searching, one after another, you get full knowledge of the greatest, Absolute Truth.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There are sometimes white, they say, suppose when I am injured, my external something hurts. They say the white blood corpuscles are responsible to protect the body. But when the white blood corpuscles is not enough, then infection normally occurs.
Prabhupāda: Anyway there is change of corpuscles. And with the change of corpuscles there is change of body. That is scientific. Therefore body is changing every moment, so why not after death? Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13).
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So consciousness is also subject to body's changes, change of body.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Body's circumstances association. Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. According to association, atmosphere, circumstances, the desires changes. So that is, desire means consciousness. Just like our boys, they had different consciousness before coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like you are also scientist, there are other scientists. But your consciousness is different from theirs. Therefore you could challenge him like that. If you can create life by accumulation of these facts. He says that I do not know. He is not confident in his science.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We know how it is formed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So you know, then you discover, counteracting. Just like formerly, in the warfare the atomic brahmāstra was thrown. On the other side... brahmāstra means excessive heat. So they caused something, they transformed into water. Because after heat, there must be water. So where is that science?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is just like milk. Milk looks white, but it is just water. They call it, it's a colloidal suspension of proteins, these caseins, in water. So similarly, this fog is just a colloidal suspension of water in the air.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So you create some fire. It will be immediately driven away. Water can be driven away by fire. So you create. That you cannot. You just shot one bomb. There will be some heat, and all the mist will go away. Do it.
Prabhupāda: What is this, behind the halavā?
Śrutakīrti: Behind it?
Prabhupāda: Hm? Something is coming out, white?
Śrutakīrti: Oh, they probably put cream in it.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Devotee: That's all right?
David Wynne: Very good. Thank you. Lovely.
Prabhupāda: So how do you like our philosophy?
David Wynne: How do I like...?
Prabhupāda: Our philosophy.
Mr. Wadell: Oh, I see. You mean just as you distinguish from white, black because it is different...
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is relative world.
Mr. Wadell: I agree, but I am using this in, as an example, not as an absolute description. I think my view—may I explain this—of the whole of which I am, as I say, I think, an imperfect part, a part which is trying to learn something which I am not even quite sure what it is that I am trying to learn...
Prabhupāda: No, no, this is... You are perfect gentleman, means that you say that "I am imperfect." That is nice. But our point is that from imperfect man, imperfect knowledge is received. We cannot expect perfect knowledge from imperfect man.
Prabhupāda: But when it is true, it is complete.
Mr. Wadell: I don't think so. You see, I could... If I say, "This wall is white," that is a true statement, but it is not a complete statement. Because this wall is not like all white walls. There are many white walls which have not got curves in the corners or decoration at that particular point. Do you understand what I am trying to say?
Prabhupāda: But when... Just like when we say God, Kṛṣṇa, this word conveys the meaning "all-attractive." So what is the wrong? This Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. So unless God is all-attractive, how He can become God? It is not that God is for me God. God is for you also. God is for him also. Therefore He must be all-attractive. This is perfect...
Mr. Wadell: But not necessarily in the same way. Because....
Prabhupāda: No. Just to understand what is God, if you try to understand in this way that "God is good," "God is all-attractive," is it not perfect?
Mr. Wadell: It is a partial statement.
Popworth: And young cows, calves are kept in a dark shed, deliberately kept in a dark shed and fed on an unnatural diet. They are not allowed to move, they are just kept in a space the size of their body. And for eight weeks, three months, they are fed on unnatural food, milk powder or something, devoid of certain necessary vitamins, to make the flesh whiter so that it gets a market. But that unfortunate beast, instead of walking in the fields under the open sky, he's shut him down.
Prabhupāda: All right, if you are so compassionate, you can kill those animals. But why you are maintaining slaughterhouse, killing nice animals.
Prabhupāda: Because you are part and parcel of God. God is all spirit. Just like materially, because you have got white body your son has got white body. Similarly, God is all spirit. Therefore you are son of God, part and parcel of God, then you are all spirit. But you have got this material covering because you wanted to come here and enjoy or lord it over the material nature. Everyone is trying to that. Everyone is trying to become a very prominent man in this material world. That is he can lord it over the material nature. So because you desire to lord it over the material nature you have to accept a material body.
Graham Hill: Are all spiritual bodies the same? I mean, is your spiritual body exactly the same as...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Spiritually you are all the same. Just like as human beings you are all the same but you may have a black dress, I may have a saffron dress, he may have white dress. This is outward covering. This is not myself. Similarly, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Within this body the spirit soul is there and he is changing different types of bodies. So when he accepts a process, this going back to home, back to Godhead, to Kṛṣṇa, then he hasn't got to accept any more material body. He remains in his own spiritual body. And spiritual body by original constitution it is eternal. Eternal. Nityaṁ śāśvato 'yam, na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). na jāyate mriyate vā kadācin. This is a description of it.
Haṁsadūta: Actually in the Bible there's, someone mentions there the description that the Lord will come and He will ride on a white steed, on a white horse. And at that time he will kill all the nondevotee people. It's also in the Bible.
Guest (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: So this Kalki, this incarnation of Kṛṣṇa which comes at the end of this age, He's described, He will come and ride on a white horse all over the world, and He will...,
Prabhupāda: Kill.
Gargamuni: That big white house, that six story high building right on the beach, he used to live there.
Prabhupāda: How do you like that place?
Banker: Very much. Quiet, peaceful. After a day of work in the bank it's a very nice place to retreat to.
Prabhupāda: Now, they were coming from Juhu to bank. So where is the difficulty? Such responsible officer, bank manager, they are coming and going, and you sannyāsīs cannot come and go? He has got responsible duties, he has to arrive in the office exactly in time.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guest: White flower, fragrant flower, it is called Parajit.
Devotee: Pārijāta.
Guest: Pārijāta.
Lady Guest: Pārijāta.
Guest: Pārijāta flower, no? We have got a plant. If you want for this you can have.
Prabhupāda: No, a Pārijāta plant is not here. It is not possible.
Prabhupāda: To cure their disease, you have to give them prasādam, and give them chance to hear Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is valuable. Just like a man suffering from jaundice, he sees everything yellow, and if you say, "No, it is not yellow. White" "No, I see yellow." What can be done, then the medicine has to be given. He'll never say it is white. He'll say it is yellow, because he is suffering. You have to cure. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness method is curing the disease of jaundice.
Yaśomatīnandana: I told him that "Have you seen Kṛṣṇa's universal form? Kṛṣṇa displayed His universal form just so that these rascals may not cheat you." They said, "I have seen universal form." I said "What did you see in the universal form? Did you see Śiva, Brahmā, all that?" He said, "I saw light, white light, in the universal form." That's all he saw in the universal form, white light. Factually they don't what universal form is.
Prabhupāda: No, no, don't waste your time with that. They are all third-class rascals. Not even first-class rascals.
Devotee: They say that we are searching after the saguṇa form. They are looking for the viśvarūpa, and we are looking for saguṇa.
Yaśomatīnandana: The Viśvarūpa also has a form.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Why do you waste your time by talking with these rascals? Take it for granted they are set of rascals. That's all.
Viṣṇujana: In this country they have the venereal disease. One out of ten men is suffering gonorrhea.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Long ago one professor, medical professor, he said, he was Englishman—that in our country, 75% students are suffering from venereal disease. Colonel Megor (?). Yes. Colonel Megor. There must be venereal disease because sex life is so cheap. There must be venereal disease. And venereal disease, once infected, it brings so many other diseases, one after another, one after another. The cancer is also due to that. Madness. Yes. And the Vedic civilization knew it. Therefore first restriction: sex. Brahmacārī. First beginning, brahmacārī. No sex life. You see? Just to save. This venereal disease is mentioned in the Āyur-veda. It is called phiraṅgāmaya. Phiraṅga means "white Europeans." It is diseased... And medical science also says that it was begun from dog. The girls, they have sex life with dog and there is the beginning of venereal disease.
Yaśodānandana: Maybe at least fifty, sixty miles the four, five first flashes, very big. Let's see. From this tree all the way to the end of this tennis court, all over the sky. Big white flashings. Like big huge incredible lightning. Then afterwards it decreased, and then regularly, every thirty, forty-five seconds, there was big lightning. Not lightning, big flashes. Very uncommon.
Jayatīrtha: The scientists say that it's eighty-three million miles long...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Jayatīrtha: The scientists, they say that it's 83 million miles long, the comet.
Prabhupāda: 83 miles?
Jayatīrtha: 83 million miles.
Prabhupāda: That Chaganlal this, I pay him extra eighty-five thousand. That is also black. No more white. So the black money was paid in this way, that the money was counted and it was put in a handbag, and it was locked by him. So the key was with him, and the bag was with me. As soon as court accepted the agreement, then I handed over, "Take this bag." Then again this Ratna Parik, he first of all proposed twenty thousand to sell that house. Then when I went there, he knew that he's settling at any cost, he said, "Now that twenty thousand was cost formerly. Now things have gone very high, I cannot sell." So he knows that we are eager to purchase. Then I said, "Then what do you want to do?" "Now I want thirty thousand." "All right, yes. Take it." I did not argue. In this way I settled up. And our Girirāja's father appreciated that "It is better a bad settlement than to prolong the case." So I took this policy. It is bad settlement, from twenty thousand to thirty thousand. But settled out. "I give you 85,000 black." But one thing I gain—that by cancelling the agreement, their proposal was that increase the price, twenty lakhs from fourteen lakhs. That was the arrangement between the attorneys. They cancelled the agreement and take twenty lakhs from him, and the balance should be divided by..., amongst us. That was the agreement. So that addition of twenty lakhs I satisfied Mrs. Nair by fourteen lakhs fifty thousand.
Gurukṛpā: This was white?
Prabhupāda: Ah? Yes, fourteen lakhs fifty thousand white.
Bali Mardana: She must've been very surprised to receive the money, such a large payment.
Prabhupāda;: Yes. (break) ...only ten lakhs.
Bali Mardana: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: Then Karandhara sent... How much you sent?
Karandhara: Excuse me, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: What you sent?
Karandhara: Sent twenty thousand.
Prabhupāda: Twenty thousand. That was... Not two lakhs, nowadays. Eight rupees. About one lakh sixty thousand. Then we had about three lakhs. In this way, somehow or other, we paid seven, more than sixteen lakhs. Black, white, everything.
Prabhupāda: Decoration?
Satsvarūpa: These white pillars?
Prabhupāda: Yes... (break) ...and papaya is very good for breakfast. (break) ...better than Los Angeles.
Bali Mardana: Oh yes.
Sudāmā: You like it?
Prabhupāda: Oh yes.
Prabhupāda: We have..., taking sacred thread has qualities less than śūdra. Camaras, cobblers. Camara means expert in skin. I am white, I am black, I am this, I am that. That is camara. Expert in skin. (break) People are very receptive?
Devotee: Yes, especially Gujarati and Marwari communities.
Prabhupāda: Ah.
Devotee: The south Indians, they are not so receptive. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...men, so everyone should be very alert in their behavior. Rising early in the morning, taking bath, be prepared for maṅgala āratik immediately. Then class. Everything in regulated way. (break) ...and still everyone comes to the point, "I know everything." This point.
Prabhupāda: That I do not know. The scientists say that it is a blazing fire, sun planet. Fire is generally red color with little yellow. Why it is white? We have no experience of fire, white. So how do they say it is fire? That is my question. (break) ...tell me what blue I have seen. Red I have seen. Where is white?
Guru dāsa: (indistinct) the sun is a reflection of the brahma-jyotir?
Prabhupāda: That is another. First of all, you answer whether it is fire or something else. (break)
Satsvarūpa: ...dew.
Prabhupāda: Where is the moisture? It is clear shine. Where is the moisture? (break) (laughter) It is not fire. It is a brilliant body. It is not fire. (break)
Satsvarūpa: ...body of Vivasvān?
Prabhupāda: Whole planet, I mean the population, they're so bright.
Prabhupāda: That's right. (break) ...coming from the back side. Kṛṣṇa is sometimes white also. Asan Balarāma (?)
Dr. Patel: No, He is white in Kṛta-yuga.
Prabhupāda: Śveta, śveta... Śuklas te tathā rakta idānīṁ kṛṣṇatāṁ gataḥ. Gargamuni, when he was deliberating on the horoscope of Kṛṣṇa, he said that "This child formerly had three other colors." Śuklas te tathā rakta. Śuklaḥ pītas tathā rakta idānīṁ kṛṣṇa. Śukla means white.
Dr. Patel: He was white in Kṛta-yuga, in Tretā, He was...
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That's right. And here, there are white also.
Dr. Patel: Senaji, dark.
Prabhupāda: In the...
Guest (1): Tirupati.
Prabhupāda: Tirupati?
Dr. Patel: This also dark.
Guest (1): Tirupati's Viṣṇu.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Viṣṇu is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No. I have seen one temple here in Nigulesvara (?). Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa white.
Dr. Patel: No, Maharastriyan temples are all white, excepting... Who?
Guest (1): Viṭṭhala.
Dr. Patel: Vitoba is black.
Prabhupāda: We have black also. Some are black. Some are... In Texas, Dallas we have got black. Kālachanda. Contradiction. Chandjī or Kālajī.
Prabhupāda: That is saṁsiddhi. They are mahātmās, those who are always remembering Kṛṣṇa. They are mahātmās. Not by the red dress. No, that is not mahātmā. Even in white dress you can become. If you always chant and remember Kṛṣṇa, you become mahātmā.
Chandobhai: Now there is a higher philosophy: ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16), mām upetya punar janma... (BG 8.15). No?
Dr. Patel: Mām eti janardana.
Prabhupāda: No.
Chandobhai: Mām evaiti kaunteya punar janma na vidyate.
Prabhupāda: Ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ... Within this material world, these persons who are doing pious activities, they are promoted to the higher planetary systems. But even if you go to the Brahmaloka—that is the highest—where you can get millions of years, your life duration, but still, kṣīṇe puṇye martya-lokaṁ viṣanti (BG 9.21), you have to come back.
Prabhupāda: No, that is another thing. I know these people, this Nehru family. They were completely Europeanized. Outwardly for them... Even up to the last point of his life, if some European would come, he would immediately receive him. And if an Indian wants to see him, "Oh, it will be..." You will have to wait at least one. Everything London-made is very good. That was Jawaharlal Nehru's idea.
Indian: That was absolutely opposing the Sardar Patel. Anything he wrote to another white skin, "All right, let him be." Lenin, we see, after all. Lenin.
Prabhupāda: That is also not good. But these people, they are svadeśi, for country, but I know them very well.
Prabhupāda: Anna-vastra, anna-vastra-dhana. Charity means to give in charity anna and vastra and cows. (break) ...give in charity some paper, one hundred rupees. (laughs) Another cheating. And he is also satisfied, "One hundred rupees." What is this one hundred? It is a paper, a piece of paper. (break) ...earned, black market, white market. Because when one does business, he has to do it, but it should be purified. I have seen the Marwaris, they do that. Although when earning money, they don't care, they do anything, but they give in charity. (break) ...purify the body by taking bath, similarly, the wealth is purified by the charity process, giving it to the brāhmaṇas and Vaiṣṇavas. Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī. He accumulated much wealth. He brought in a big boat, all gold coins. So... So he distributed fifty percent to the brāhmaṇa and Vaiṣṇava and twenty-five percent he gave to the relatives, and twenty-five percent he kept for his personal emergency. This is example shown by Rūpa Gosvāmī. (break) Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). So where is that vaiśya, giving protection to the cows? Although they were village men, they were very rich. That is the old Vedic civilization. Now you go to the village—all poor. The cows are skinny, people have no home, no nice cloth. This is the position. And we are still advanced, advanced. They are proud of "advanced." And here is the... Just hear the description of the village, with cows only. So how much fallen we have become, we can just imagine.
Prabhupāda: ...even the richest man, their wife has no bangles. You see? And they are jewelries. Jewelries. Cow, butter, throwing butter like anything, and silk sari and enough food grains. What is more want for material advancement? That is real material ad... You have got everything, material needs. (break) If a man can feed his wife and children, then he is successful. There is no question of charity. There is no question of charity. But here it is said they were also giving in charity. (break) ...stopped to become real brāhmaṇa and give instruction to the society, and they also stopped giving charity to the brāhmaṇas. So therefore the society is so fallen. There is no instruction from the brāhmaṇas and no charity from the kṣatriya and vaiśya. (break) ...proṣita bhārtṛkā. By the dress a woman is recognized. When she does not dress very nicely, it is to be understood that her husband is out of home. When there is the vermillion, that means she is married. When the, what is called, division? Siti. Siti is in this side, then she is prostitute. The dress, when the woman dresses with white dress, they are widow, no husband.
O'Grady: I'm not saying it's possible to achieve it. I'm not even thinking it's possible. I'm not even saying that I think it's desirable to achieve happiness in this life, in this world. Because I have a feeling, an intuition that...
Prabhupāda: No, there is possibility—when the consciousness is purified. That we are preaching, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now, so long the consciousness is polluted, if I think that "I am Irishman," "I am Englishman," "I am Indian," "I am white," "I am black..."
O'Grady: Christian.
Prabhupāda: "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," they are all contaminated. There is no possibility of unity in the contact of this world.
Prabhupāda: White?
Guru-gaurāṅga: The red, sacred...
Robert Gouiran: The red, sacred mountain. Arunacalam.
Prabhupāda: Arunacalam. Oh, yes. The temple is on the mountain.
Robert Gouiran: No, just at the foot of the mountain, on the east, exactly on the east. And the Maharshi Ashram is on the south.
Prabhupāda: So you stayed there for some time?
Robert Gouiran: Well, between Pondicherry and there for one month, four weeks.
Prabhupāda: So who is the...
Robert Gouiran: Then I have to go back to so many places.
Prabhupāda: So what was your achievement by visiting these places?
Robert Gouiran: Uh, it's a little difficult to explain, but I made a series of personal experiences which convinced me of the existence of the occult plane. So I could get some contact with what I call the occult plane or whatever you call it. That means that the way how we could get the transparency and then to go where we have to go.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice, beginning of spiritual understanding.
Prabhupāda: So at least in the human society, everyone must have understanding of God, that is expected. It is not expected in the society of cats and dogs because they are animals. The human being, dharmasya glāniḥ, there is dharma, some sort of religious system. And religious system means to understand God. That's all. Just like to become a lawyer means to understand the laws of the state. Similarly, religious system means the process by which one can understand God. And that is the summary of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). That is first-class religious system which trains the followers to understand God and love Him. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir, ahaituky apratihatā (SB 1.2.6). If somebody says, "Oh, it is a very great thing to understand God and to love Him," they are thinking it is not possible. No. The answer is ahaituky apratihatā. It can be learned by anyone. It is not checked by any material condition. If one wants to know what is God and to love Him, the path is open for everyone. It does not require high intelligence, high education, high culture. No. Anyone. The process is śravaṇam, the beginning. One has to hear. One may be fool number one, it doesn't matter. No education, it doesn't matter. Poor, doesn't matter. Black, doesn't matter. White, doesn't matter. You try to hear. Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ (SB 3.25.25). Therefore, Vedic injunction is in order to know, go to the bona fide guru and hear.
Paramahaṁsa: So we should be able to see the quality of man we are preaching to.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you have to make him intelligent. Everyone is fool, mūḍha. Everyone within this material world is supposed to be a fool. Because everyone is thinking, "I am this body." So he's fool. "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am German," "I am Frenchman," "I am this," "I am that." What is the difference? A cat is thinking, "I'm cat." A dog is thinking, "I am dog." So if somebody thinks that, in relationship with the body, "I am Frenchman," "I am Englishman," "I am...", then where is the difference between the cat and the dog? He's thinking himself as this body. Therefore everyone is thinking, at least in this modern world, the so-called nationalism, everyone is thinking, "I am Englishman," "I am Frenchman," "I am Indian," "I am this," "black," "white." So everyone is fool. Is it not? Yes. He's thinking in a way what he is not. Therefore he's a fool. All these big, big political leaders, Napoleon, Hitler, Churchill, and in Europe , they fought with this consciousness, "I am Englishman," "I am German," "I am Frenchman." That's all. Even the big, big leaders, they are fools. And what to speak of common men?
Professor Durckheim: But as an experience, the pure consciousness as an experience, has to have a background which is not pure consciousness. Otherwise it could become...
Prabhupāda: No. Pure consciousness is actually you are. Just like water. Water is pure. When it is comes from the sky, it is clear crystal water. But as soon as it touches the ground, it becomes muddy. Similarly, we soul, spirit soul, we are pure. As soon as we come in contact with this matter, material existence, we become impure. And there are three stages of impurity: goodness, passion and ignorance. So all of them are impure. Unless one comes to the spiritual consciousness—he may be a very nice man—he is infected with the impurity of goodness. He is thinking, "I am very big man, I am very..." That is also impurity. And another man does not know what he is, just like animal, all the animals. That is also impurity. When both of them will come to the clear consciousness that "I am part and parcel of God; my duty is to serve God," that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So long he identifies with this material consciousness, he is impure. Just like people are fighting: "I am German," "I am Englishman," "I am this," "I am that," "I am black," "I am white," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am śūdra"—so many, designations. These designations are impurity. Just like sometimes the artists, they manufacture some statue naked. In France I saw, naked. They take it this naked statue is pure art, not dressed. Similarly, when you come to the nakedness of spirit soul without this designation of this body, "I am American," "I am German," "I am this," "I am that," that is purity.
Professor Durckheim: And this understanding has to be an experience.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is experienced, but on account of his foolishness he is thinking otherwise. He knows that "I am not this body. I am now in this body of old man, but I was not in this body, say, fifty years ago. Therefore I am not this body, that body or this body. I am different from the body." This is very easy experience. I am existing. I understand that I existed in a baby's body. I existed in a child's body, boy's body. So I have now changed so many bodies. Therefore I am not this body. Just like you dress. You are now in black coat, and next moment you can be in other color. But you are not this coat. You have changed the coat. Similarly, I have changed the body, but I am not this body. This is self-realization. First of all let me know that "I am not this body; I am living within this body." You are not this coat. If I ask you, "Mr. Blackcoat," that is my foolishness. You are neither black coat or white coat. And that is self-realization.
Professor Durckheim: ...I realize that the closer members engaged, really, in this work of distributing books and chanting, wearing the white robes and shaving the heads, they are the closer participants I suppose. And then have you also members of your movement which are simply in their work, in the community, in the world? Or is...
Prabhupāda: No, we invite everyone.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. We are also chanting Christ or Kṛṣṇa, the same thing. So let us join to together and chant. If you have got objection to chant Kṛṣṇa, you chant Christ or Christo. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śaktis tatrārpitā niyamitaḥ smaraṇe na kālaḥ. He says that God has got many multi names. Any one of them you chant because each and every name has the same potency as God the person, because His name and He, there is no difference. And if we become designationless, if we give up these titles, "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," and simply chant God's name, then we become on the spiritual platform immediately, without any discrimination that "Here is Hindu, here is Muslim, here is Christian, here is white, here is black," that. We are preaching that human form of life is meant for God realization or to learn how to love God. That is real business of human being. So either do it as a Christian or as a Muslim or as a Hindu, it doesn't matter. But do this business.
Prabhupāda: There is no second religion. There is only one religion. That is God consciousness. Now, as soon as you designate, "Christian," "Hindu," "Muslim," that is upādhi, designated religion. Just like you are here and you are in black coat. So if I say, "Black Mr. such and such," so to say, "Black Mr. such and such," there is no need. "Mr. such and such" is sufficient. But we have been accustomed to say like that, "Black Mr. such and such, white Mr. such and such." Similarly, religion is one, but due to our sophisticated mind, we call it "Christian religion," "Hindu religion," "Muslim religion." Why don't you come in? Why are you outside?
Devotee: I have my working clothes on, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: All right. So there cannot be... but for particular reason or circumstances we call it, but religion is one. That means to abide by the laws of God. That is religion. If you do not know what is God, what is His law, that is another thing. But the religion means to abide by the laws of God, that's all. It cannot be Hindu, Muslim, Christian. Just like the state law. So there are many persons, citizens of the state. The law is not that it is for the Christians, it is for the Jews, it is for the Negroes, it is for the white man. It is not like that. Law is the same for everyone. You can call it, "This is Negro law, this is white law, this is black law..." No. That is not very scientific. Scientific is that God is there and we are all... God is great, we are all subordinates and we have to obey the orders of God. That is religion. Am I right or wrong?
Guest (2): You're right.
Paramahaṁsa: A little bitter.
Prabhupāda: Yes, very bitter. So the cuckoo, they try to eat the mango fruit flower when small, and the crow they eat that nim tree fruit. So amongst the birds also, there is discrimination according to the quality. Cuckoo sings very nicely. He is fond of mango fruit. And the crow is fond of this nim tree fruit. The white swan, they live in a very nice garden. There is lake, flower. And the crows, they live in the city. Of course, here in your country the garbage is not open. In India there is thrown anywhere and the crows... You have seen it?
Devotees: Yes.
Prabhupāda: They enjoy that. Tad-vāyasaṁ-tīrtham. It is mentioned in the Bhāgavata. Tad vāyasaṁ-tīrtham. Find out this. No, it is in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Na tad-vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo pragṛṇīta karhicit tad vāyasaṁ-tīrtham uṣanti mānasāḥ.
Prabhupāda: ...these are all misconceptions because I am not this body. I am spirit soul. When the spirit soul goes away, then where is the distinction? Suppose in hospital some Hindu dies or some Muslim dies, some Christian die, the spirit... They are stacked together as useless matter. Is it not? There is no distinction there now, Hindu, Muslim, Christian, white, black. Now it is dead body, put aside. Eh? So, but when living, when the spirit soul is there, they are dividing, this designation. So this knowledge that so long the spirit soul is there in the body, it is important. As soon as the soul is gone, it is useless. But people are giving more stress on the body than on the active principle, living force, what is there. There is no study. Suppose you are all scientists. What is your studying about that living force that is moving the body?
Dr. Muncing: I would agree with you that the body, when a person dies, it's material and dead in the terms we use and the spirit moves on. And I accept from that that at that stage one has nothing to..., one has no worry about the body. But in the stage that we are now, where our body and our soul are together, it seems to me that this is one unity and you can't use the argument that at that stage you should neglect the body.
Prabhupāda: No, we don't say neglect the body. But the important factor... Just like our, this Svarūpa Dāmodara has explained that behind this material combination, there is an active principle which is soul. That is the important thing. But in the modern age they are giving more stress on the unimportant thing, and they have no knowledge of the important thing. This is the defect.
Hanumān: In the beginning there's Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is... I think Newton or some scientist also said that "Original motion is given by somebody; then other motions are given." Just like this, what is called? Railway wagons? So one engine pushes it. Then the wagon, another wagon, (makes sound) "cutcutcutcutcut," like that. Wherefrom the original? That is answered in the Bhagavad-gītā,
The Vedānta... Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The motion... Wherefrom the original motion comes? That is Brahmān, Parabrahmān. Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). In the Bhāgavata it is said, (sic:) aham as amāgre. So they have no eyes to see wherefrom the original motion comes. Bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). These are the statement. Bīja. Now, this flower has come, white flower, from the particular seed.
Prabhupāda: So this verse says that "You are speaking like a learned man, Arjuna," He addressed Arjuna, "but you are not very learned man because you are considering of the body." Just like the proprietor of the car, the driver. While the car is going on nicely or car is stopped, no more working, he is disinterested that he knows very well that "I am not this car." Therefore it is said, gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. "Anyone who is actually learned, he does not consider very seriously about the body, either it is dead or alive." So basically we are, all, every one of us, we are spirit soul. The body is just like a machine. We have got it. But we are taking of the machine very much, not for ourself. Whole world is taking care of the body but not of the driver of the body, the spirit soul. Everyone is thinking, "I am this body, and because this body is born in America, I am American, and because the body is white, therefore I am white, or black." In this way everyone is identifying with the body. Nobody is identifying with the spirit soul. That is the basic disease of the human society.
Mādhava: Can we say that the living entity is there, and that he is the one that makes the molecules and the atoms come together to form a body just like the scientists give explanation? No? We can't?
Prabhupāda: No. Because the living entity is there for the formation of his body, so many things are going on, action and reaction of the matter. That's all. That is depending on his desires. It is so subtle thing. He is desiring, and action, reaction is going on. And as soon as the living entity is not there, these action and reaction will stop. So they are trying to find out the missing thing. That missing thing is the living entity. That they do not know, foolishly. Just like a motorcar is running very nicely, and as soon as the driver goes away it stops. The machine is there, the everything is there, but this rascal mechanic, he comes, "Something is missing." And why something missing? But he does not know the missing part is the driver. He is finding out in the motorcar what is missing. The motorcar, everything is there. The hand is there, leg is there, heart is there, the intestines are there, everything is there. So they cannot explain. They say, "Now the blood has become white." Then make it red. Where is the difficulty? So they do not know what is missing; neither he'll take, I mean to say, learned instruction. That is their defect. Real thing is the driver is missing, but that they will not accept. They are so foolish, they are thinking that motorcar is running automatically.
Prabhupāda: That is his interpretation. Tviṣā, tviṣā akṛṣṇam. And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, idānīṁ kṛṣṇatāṁ gataḥ, śuklo raktas tathā pitaḥ idānīṁ kṛṣṇatāṁ gataḥ. So God has other colors also. White and red and yellow. So here is yellow. Tviṣā akṛṣṇa. So we have to follow Jīva Gosvāmī. What these rascals, we have to follow? We don't follow. If you have got a interpretation, we have got better interpretation. Why shall I accept you? My mother says, "Here is your father." I shall accept that, or somebody says, "Here is your father" Whom shall I accept? Mother's version. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). We should accept the paramparā ācāryas, not whimsically anyone's interpretation you have to accept.
Prabhupāda: But that is not God. Just like gold. Gold is everywhere gold. Because it is in Christian country, you cannot say, "It is Christian gold." And because it is in Muslim country, you cannot say, "It is Muslim gold." Gold is the world standard of money. The same gold, dispatched from America, can be accepted in India. Dispatched from India, it can be accepted in Palestine because it is gold. Everyone who knows what is gold, he'll accept it. So God should be like that. And therefore the name Kṛṣṇa, "all-attractive"... When there is gold, either you be Christian, Muslim, Hindu—"Oh, here is a lump of gold. Can I possess it?" That is attraction. So as gold is all-attractive, similarly, God must be all-attractive. And that word is used as Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. One who knows gold, he'll be attracted. Doesn't matter whether he's Hindu or Muslim, Christian, poor, rich man, black, white. It doesn't matter. Here is gold, and everyone... Just like in your country there was gold rush. Eh? In California? From all different parts of the world they came. So gold is gold for everyone. So now one should try to understand or check what is gold. That is required.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: In the Bible they give twelve names for God.
Prabhupāda: No, let me finish this. If you do not accept Kṛṣṇa is the name of God,... I have explained what is the idea of Kṛṣṇa. The Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. The example is given: Just like gold. Gold is attractive to everyone—to the educated, the uneducated, to the black, to the white, man, woman, everyone. One who knows God, er, one who knows gold-gold is attractive. Similarly, God is all-attractive. There cannot be that "It is black gold," "It is white gold," "It is Christian gold," "It is Hindu gold." No. Gold is gold. So we present Kṛṣṇa that "Here is God, all-attractive." Now you say, "No, He's not God." Then you present your God.
Haṁsadūta: The Japanese and Chinese are very, very small.
Prabhupāda: Did it...? (break) ...special. There is a proverb, kalo brāhmaṇa kota śūdra bete mussulman kalki chele busi... (?) A brāhmaṇa, black... Brāhmaṇa's another name is śukla, white. So as soon as a brāhmaṇa is black then he's (indistinct) kalo brāhmaṇa. Kota śūdra, and śūdra, just like African, if they become white there is something mystery. Kalo brāhmaṇa kota śūdra bete mussulman, Mohammedan, because Mohammedan means the Afghans, they are very tall, so a Mussulman is dwarf, a brāhmaṇa is black, the śūdra is white, kalo brāhmaṇa kota śūdra bete mussulman and kalki chelo, that means the bastard and (indistinct) ...these are all of the same class. Adopted son, he gets money, without any labor, he spends like anything. In your country there is adopted son?
Devotee: Yeah, yeah.
Prabhupāda: Not at all. Anyway, that not very difficult.
Devotee: No. I can take advice from the experts. That man with the white beard there, he's supposed to know very much. He's supposed to be very expert, and he speaks English. He's supposed to have agricultural experience.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Yaśodānandana: Jayapatāka had no agricultural experience.
Prabhupāda: Any city boy
Prabhupāda: You are seeing this green. If you interpret, "It is not green; it is white," what is this? Can you interpret like that? It is green, and "No, in my interpretation it is white. What you are seeing, it is not actual seeing." You can go on saying like that. But I am an ordinary man. Why shall I take it white? It is green. That's all.
Paramahaṁsa: But that is the way of great writing, to write in symbolism. That is...
Amogha: Great literary works are done in that way.
Paramahaṁsa: They call it "writing between the lines." There's some hidden meaning. Therefore it is very deep.
Amogha: And so if Kṛṣṇa was such a great philosopher, then naturally He would have also used those literary talents to write in between the lines.
Prabhupāda: All right, you become very good bluffer. That's all. We don't accept you. All the ācāryas, they did not accept, those who are authorities. Vyāsadeva, he did not accept these foolish theories. Nārada never accepted. Recent ācāryas, Madhvācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Caitanya. Why shall I accept these third-class professors? Kick on their face. We have got authority to support this.
Devotee (2): You have it's just like when someone has jaundice and he sees everything as yellow and you cannot convince him if something is white.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the...
Devotee (2): He must become purified.
Prabhupāda: So therefore, the treatment is, some way or other, induce them to come and chant and dance with us and take prasādam. This program should be accelerated.
Australian devotee 6: Then they eat the grandfather's brain.
Prabhupāda: And, you do not know, they like to eat white men. (laughter) Yes. They kidnap or capture, some way or other, one white man, and they eat it very nicely.
Australian devotee 6: They say that the grandfather is very learned so they eat his brain so they can get his knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Oh, they say like that? Oh, just see. He eats the experience. Harer nāma harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21).
Śrutakīrti: You were saying about how, in the car, that one eats the cow, they say, because it is sāttvika.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs)
Śrutakīrti: That is that steel boat we were looking at to get.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Śrutakīrti: The white boat there...
Prabhupāda: White boat?
Śrutakīrti: Yes, the large white boat just there, that is the one we were after. That is the steet boat.
Prabhupāda: Oh. This one?
Śrutakīrti: Yes, the large one, the biggest one there.
Harikeśa: It's not so big. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...can avoid.
Śrutakīrti: Yes. (end)
Jayatīrtha: Everyone is afraid now, of taking it. The crime rate has become very high.
Prabhupāda: Black and white?
Jayatīrtha: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Negroes are envious of the white men.
Jayatīrtha: Yes. In Detroit every year one out of every five hundred people is murdered.
Prabhupāda: White man?
Jayatīrtha: White men and black men. Usually black men are murdering.
Prabhupāda: What is the reason? The same feeling as in India, Hindu Muslim. But it is not so strong.
Mayor: Would you use the facility, then, as sort of a center for all over the United States?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We invite. As soon as they have got a leisure hour, let them come and live with us for one week and see the result. They can remain forever. It doesn't matter. But for experimental sake they can come, live with us and associate with us. It is not difficult. And we invite everyone. We have no such discrimination that black, white, Hindu, Muslim, Christian, no. Anyone. It is universal. Because we consider every living entity is part and parcel of God. That is a fact. We are teeny gods, part and parcel. The same quality we have got—in minute quantity. Quality is the same, quantity is less. So God is good, so we are also good. But we have become bad under circumstances. Just like under infection, one becomes diseased. So if we cure that infection, again he becomes good. So it is the curing process. It is not an external artificial thing, imposed upon somebody, no. His goodness is there. Just like generally a man is healthy, but by infecting some disease he becomes diseased. So this material way of life is a kind of infection. So we have to cure that. And this is our process. And it has become successful. So therefore this problem of your country... I was this morning also lecturing that "You take up this movement very seriously and save your country." And if you save America, means you save the whole world because others are following America. So you can do it very easily. That is my appeal to the authorities of the American administration. But I do not want anything. For your countrymen, for your misguided youthful generation, you have to do it. That is my request. Otherwise there is no other way.
Brahmānanda: Also different planets?
Prabhupāda: Yes. But everyone can become devotee. There is no harm. It is not that because one is in the lower species, he cannot become a devotee. Everyone can become a devotee. (break) ...yoni, they can also become perfect devotee. (break) This is the power of God. He can deliver anyone without any consideration. Therefore paṇḍita is sama-darśinaḥ, he does not make these divisions. He sees that "He is spirit soul. So let him be delivered." That's all. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśināh (BG 5.18). Materially there is division. He is black, he is white, he is this, he is that. This is material. Spiritually, there is no division. One. (break) They make, what is called, spiritual division also. That is their foolishness. Spiritually there is no division. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param (BG 18.54). Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No, you cannot control because you are controlled. That is eternally you are controlled. You are controlled.
Yadubara: Also, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they don't recognize that there are so many species of life. Just like the white man and the black man they will say is one species. And also the aborigine.
Prabhupāda: We... Let us accept forms, not species but forms. It doesn't matter. There is only change of words. There are so many forms.
Rādhā-vallabha: They say that the amount of forms is not constant because by breeding different forms together they can create completely new forms that never existed before.
Prabhupāda: What is the use of creating new forms? Already there are eight million.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So it dies before. All these food grain plants, when the food grains are ripened, they dry. So it is not required to kill the plant. When it is already dead, you can take the food grains. When you take milk, the cow is not killed. The milk is nothing but transformation of the blood. So we are taking milk means blood. The blood is in a red color, and milk is in white color, but it is blood. Unless it is blood, how so much liquid comes from the body? So we take the same blood in a very intelligible way so that cow may live, he can continue to give me more and more, and I take more benefit from the wonderful food, milk. This is intelligence. And because cow blood is very beneficial for health, if I kill the cow, that is not very good intelligence. In our New Vrindaban the cows are giving more milk than others because they know we shall not kill them. They are happy. You'll get from Bhāgavatam... Find out this verse in the First Canto, I think, kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ sarva-kāma-dughā mahī (SB 1.10.4).
Jayatīrtha: He was the first white man to discover California, I think?
Satsvarūpa: Yeah. (break)
Prabhupāda: First man to see the Pacific?
Yadubara: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: Only four hundred years ago.
Jayatīrtha: First white man.
Yadubara: The Indians were there, of course. The Red Indians were already there.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: Each group says that they're the most beautiful. (laughter) The blacks say they are beautiful, and the whites say...
Prabhupāda: No, impartially. That everyone will say, "I am beautiful." Hippies also beautiful. Lavanyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam. (break) ...dirty water.
Devotee: What is that?
Prabhupāda: The water is dirty. Why? Not very clean.
Brahmānanda: ...heard one report that the mayor of this city, he prevented a race riot. He personally prevented there being a race riot. Recently one white man killed a black man. So the blacks then were attacking his shop, and the mayor personally came and subdued the crowd. He was able to prevent the riot.
Prabhupāda: Recently?
Brahmānanda: Yes. (break)
Ādi-keśava: ...see that in those deer up there, that the one with antlers, the horn coming out of his head, he is the male. He thinks he is in charge of all of the females. He will fight anyone who comes after them, any other deer who comes after them. And he thinks, "I am so strong. I am so brave." He tries to protect them all and chase them away. That one in the center there.
Devotee (1): It looks like they've all assembled to see you.
Prabhupāda: There's a big. (break)
Brahmānanda: We used to go hunting these, with big guns, that innocent animal.
Prabhupāda: Hero. Big hero. (laughter) (break) ...was telling that here also people come and...
Brahmānanda: With bow and arrow, he was saying.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is allowed?
Ambarīṣa: No. It is against the law.
Prabhupāda: Nityānanda Prabhu used to decorate Himself with very costly ornaments. Your teeth does not look very clean. Why?
Harikeśa: They never get white. They are yellow all the time.
Prabhupāda: You washed daily?
Harikeśa: Every day.
Ambarīṣa: Did you try baking soda?
Harikeśa: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: The karmīs are also envious that we are very happy, that we are looking forward to a next life. They... Because they don't have that faith...
Prabhupāda: They have no hope.
Prabhupāda: I know that. Do they say like that?
Akṣayānanda: Not directly. But when we explain how many things, what is being done and we show photographs, how people have become devotees, they will say, "Yes, but have you heard of Swami so and so?" And we'll say, "Yes, we have heard of him. But our Guru Mahārāja has got thousands of devotees all over the world." "Yes, he has also got thousands of devotees." They'll minimize, even though it's there in black and white.
Prabhupāda: But where they are?
Brahmānanda: Yeah. Where are those thousands of disciples of these other swamis?
Prabhupāda: "Here we are, but where are the swami's disciples?" Ask them.
Akṣayānanda: Then they will become angry.
Prabhupāda: "No, no. Well, don't be angry. Well, Bhaktivedanta Swami's disciples, we are present here. Present anyone else. So how shall I believe you?"
Akṣayānanda: Then they will say, "We are doing the same as you. But we don't have to help you because we are already doing the same thing. We are feeding the poor, giving charity."
Prabhupāda: Yes. They do not understand.
Vāsughoṣa: Once I went to one Gauḍīya Matha in South India, and I showed them a picture of our Deities in Hyderabad. They said, "This Kṛṣṇa is white." So later on I told that story to Acyutānanda Swami, and he said, "Do you know what I tell those people? I say, 'No, Kṛṣṇa is not white. You just can't see Kṛṣṇa.' " So like that, sometimes we are criticized by them for Kṛṣṇa in the Deity being white. (break)
Hari-śauri: ...Kṛṣṇa's energy is all-spiritual, then why in Bhagavad-gītā does Kṛṣṇa make a distinction—"My separated material energy"? Why does He say, "separated"?
Prabhupāda: Separated... Just like I am talking and this will be reproduced as it is, although it is separated.
Hari-śauri: So He's not personally present there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. When you replay, the same voice will come, but I am not there. So if you want to utilize this separated energy for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it will help you. Just like the Deity. Everyone knows it is stone, but why we are worshiping stone?
Hari-śauri: It is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is as good as Kṛṣṇa. It is not worshiping the stone.
Prabhupāda: This is not.
Cyavana: No, the next, where the white ship is.
Devotee 1: Very small.
Cyavana: Not so small. They've had as many as thirty-five or forty, not all in the berths but in the harbor. They bring everything in from overseas, and then they take out the sugar cane.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Generally they come from Europe?
Cyavana: Everywhere, all over the world. They trade with the whole world—America, Hong Kong, Japan. (break)
Prabhupāda: They are collecting fish?
Cyavana: These little clams they eat. Inside the shell there's a slug they eat, meat.
Prabhupāda: Hindi. (Hindi) You read it thoroughly and you explain it either in English or Hindi, as you think befitting to your friends. So we have got so many literatures in French language. We are also asking some men from Europe. That will create some impression. Yes. White elephant. (laughter) Dancing. Everyone will purchase ticket. Yes. (Hindi) Bring some white elephant. So literature is there. But one thing is that you must be placed in sadācāra, well behaved. So you have to sacrifice, especially your long hair. And if you sacrifice your hair, we can export it and get some money. (laughter) Because in Western countries they want these hairs to make wigs. Yes. So just... (Hindi) As they have been trained up to rise early in the morning, this will give you spiritual strength. If you simply becomes a gramophone speaker, then it will not be effective. Gramophone or tape record speaker, that will not be. You must be live speaker. Your living condition should be spiritually, what is called, surcharged. So that means you must be trained up how to rise early in the morning, take your bath, cleanse yourself, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Then you will be spiritually strong. When you are spiritually strong, if you speak something on spiritual subject matter, then it will be effective. Otherwise it will be just like tape record playing. So this is required. And you should... You are asking something?
Guest (1): No.
Prabhupāda: Soul, your... It will take many millions of years to understand soul, but this is your position; you understand it, that you'll be kicked out at any moment. Why don't you understand this? There is no question of understanding soul. That is far away. (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes over pay, that they're not getting enough money, they will riot. And the white policemen, they come and shoot them.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Simply shoot them.
Prabhupāda: Shoot.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Kill them.
Prabhupāda: Hm. They are keeping them in control. That is the way they should be kept in control, śūdras.
Prabhupāda: Indians are taken within the group of black? No.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, they have white and nonwhite. So technically speaking, they can classify all of the Indians as nonwhite. But at the same time, there is more division, and they have Indian community, and they have the colored community and the African community.
Prabhupāda: The government officer, responsible post, they are offered to the Indians? No.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Government?
Prabhupāda: Government responsible post.
Prabhupāda: On the whole, the white man is governing.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, completely.
Prabhupāda: They are keeping, governing. This is Indian house. Eh?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. This is Indian shopping, all Indian shops here. From here back is all Indian.
Prabhupāda: So the European come here to shop, for shopping?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: They are Indians or, these, white?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Muslims. Most of these Muslims originally from Gujarat side. Their forefathers came here.
Prabhupāda: They are called Boris. (pronounces "Boreez") Boris Muslim.
Prahupada: So why it is not reflecting to other planets, only to the moon? Why special advantage to the moon? They have no reason. All rascals' philosophy. Why particularly to the moon? Why not others? Simply theories and mental speculation. They have no scientific. And the śāstra definitely gives the distance of the moon from the sun planet-1,600,000 miles. Then similarly (sic:) 1,600 million up, the Mars, then Venus, then..., everything. And moon is specifically mentioned that "It is so brilliant because there is fire, blazing fire. And the blazing fire is so illuminating that even at night it looks white, bright." This is reasonable because... Not that it is being reflected by the sun. The sun can reflect other planets, but it is there, fire. Just like sun there is fire, similarly, moon there is fire. The sun is not covered by cool atmosphere, but the moon is covered by cool atmosphere. Therefore it is pleasing. When there is sunshine and breeze, it is very pleasing. And no sunshine, simply breezing—it is not pleasing. And only sunshine, there is no cool atmo... That is also painful. But sunshine and breezing is very pleasing. So there is, like sunshine, blazing fire and surrounded by cool atmosphere. Therefore the moon is so pleasing.
Prabhupāda: Africans, I have seen, they look like gorilla. So why now from gorilla the Africans or any black man is not coming? Then the question is the black man… We have got experience. The black man come. And wherefrom the white man came? Is there any white gorilla?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.
Prabhupāda: No. Then white man, how did he come?
Harikeśa: Well, sometimes there is a freak of nature, and the pigments that are in the skin…
Prabhupāda: Simply it is for Darwin, "sometime." To support his rascaldom, nature has to serve him “sometimes. “Just see. We have to believe. Nature's law is the same, symmetrical. Nature is not obliged to serve Mr. Darwin, the rascal. Sometimes. He says, "sometimes." He did, and he knew it only and nobody knew. We have to believe that. Sometimes it was done, and it was revealed to Darwin. How he came to know? Nobody could understand. Only Darwin could understand? There was no other?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They use the same argument against us, though, that… They use the same argument against us that so few people can understand God…
Prabhupāda: No. We don’t say like that. We say that God first spoke to sun-god, and sun-god spoke to his son, Manu, and Manu spoke to Ikṣvāku, Ikṣvāku spoke to his son. In this way are there. We don’t say, "The God spoke to me." Evaṁ paramparā prāptam, that is quite reasonable. God said to Brahmā, and the Brahmā said to Nārada, Nārada said to Vyāsadeva, Vyāsadeva said to others. In this way we should know. If my father said to my forefather… My forefather said to my father or my grandfather, and the same news is coming in family way, then where is the wrong? We don’t say, "Darwin simply knew it." No, we don’t say that. Evaṁ paramparā prāptam. He was a rascal number one, all these scientists, the so-called scientists.
Prabhupāda: Huh? No, no, it is an experiment. You say life comes from chemical. So by chemical combination make an egg and do it. Begin from this. Then we shall see others. This is very easy. If you have already analyzed the yellow portion of the egg, the white portion of the egg and that outer plastering can be done. Nowadays there is… What is called?
Harikeśa: Plastic.
Prabhupāda: Plastic. It can be done. Do it.
Prabhupāda: But at the same time, you want to live and enjoy. That is not allowed. Everyone wants to live and enjoy. Hm? Otherwise why, when there is attack outside, why do you fight? The tendency is that "I shall live comfortably." Why these white Europeans have made so high plan? So that they may not be kicked out by the Africans. That is the tendency. Therefore they are making secure, Africans far away so that they may not come. You want to live securely, but that is not there. You may make political arrangement very secure, but what is the nature's arrangement? You'll be kicked out at any moment. There is no certainty. There is no guarantee even that you will be allowed to live for so many years. At any moment.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are not happy. Otherwise one who knows "I am Brahman," brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā—he will be happy always. That has become fashion. "Table chair brahma-jñāna," sitting on the table-chair, smoking and talking of Brahman. "Armchair brahma-jñāna." Although Kṛṣṇa is giving information, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu... mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param (BG 18.54), so they do not make further progress, mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param, to achieve that platform of bhakti. Therefore it is as good as no knowledge. These will be the symptoms of brahma-jñāna, na śocati na kāṅ..., samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. If they have got brahma-jñāna, then why they should distinguish? Just like in our country, Mahatma Gandhi, so he is designated as mahātmā, but why he was against the Englishmen, to drive them away? That is not brahma-jñāna. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. They are as good. As these white people, they do not give any chance to the other people, so similarly, Mahatma Gandhi also, he wanted that "These white people should go away." So what is the distinction? The same knowledge. "You want me ... to drive me away; I want to drive you away." So what is the distinction between you and me? The one dog is barking at another dog; another dog is barking, another dog. That's all. Where is knowledge?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's a very interesting view.
Prabhupāda: No.
Indian man (1): So they got to order everybody. That's what I believe.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. He has to tax his brain. Kṛṣṇa has given advice, everything: "Divide the society into four classes: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra." And then the brāhmaṇas should give nice advice, teacher. The kṣatriyas should govern, and the vaiśyas should produce food and give protection to the cows, and if there is excess, then trade. And śūdras should help, worker. Here I see the Europeans, they are working as the kṣatriyas, government, and the Indians they are working as vaiśya, and the Africans, they are as śūdras. But where is brāhmaṇa? There is no brāhmaṇa; therefore it is not good. It will suffer. And if they accept, the government men accept our advice and do accordingly—we don't want government post, but we can give good advice how to govern—then everyone will be happy. That they are losing. There is no good head. They are simply thinking in their animal way, "Why the Indians should come here?" And the Indians are, "Why whites are neglecting us?" This is going on because there is no good engagement. So this is essential, that the society should be divided into four classes of men: the first-class men-lazy intelligent; second-class men-busy intelligent; and third-class men-lazy fool; and fourth-class men-busy fool.
Prabhupāda: "There" means where?
Harikeśa: At the ultimate.
Prabhupāda: Hell. (laughter)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. (break) Anyone who is thinking that they're happy is simply a rascal. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...saying the black man is not allowed to marry a white woman?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, no. Neither vice versa also. There is no intermarriage permitted here.
Prabhupāda: Yolk. You color it. Some chemical and color it. What is difficulty? Sometimes they say a man is dead because the color of the blood has changed. From red to..., it has become white. So where is the difficulty to make it red again? Do it. Change the color again. Make it red. And if you say, "No, that natural redness is required," so there are so many flowers, natural red. Why there is no life? If redness, natural redness, is the cause of life, so there are so many flowers, red flowers. Why they do not walk? If you say that the... "Besides that, the life substance is missing," that is also not correct. Life substance is there in the dead body; otherwise how worms are coming out? Life is coming out. Not one, but hundreds are coming out. How you can say the life substance is missing? The worms are coming automatically, but you take the portion of the dead body and produce worm. That you cannot do. So which way you are going to take credit as scientist? Now which way?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We can walk through there.
Harikeśa: One scientist once wrote a book, and in this book a person had some disease, so they invented a little spaceship which was very, very tiny, and they went in through the eye and they saw all of the workings of the body, how all the red blood cells and white blood cells were working and attacking the disease and all these things.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Brahmānanda: They made a cinema of this.
Harikeśa: So there was one scene in which they are looking out and seeing all of these, this fight going on inside the blood, and the one scientist inside the machine said, "How can they say there is no God?"
Brahmānanda: Even when the American astronauts went up, they brought a Bible with them, and when they saw the earth, how wonderful it was...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: And they didn't make it to the moon.
Brahmānanda: ...they quoted from the Bible about how wonderful the creation of God is, how He has made it.
Prabhupāda: And only they saw the moon planet is... There is no living entity. Why God made the moon planet? To keep it vacant? Full of dust?
Prabhupāda: I know that. In Calcutta, Kukumcha. This firm was very big. One of the richest Marwari. So eighty years old, he wanted to change the hormone to become young. Not only... There are many Marwaris. You know the (name witheld)? (name witheld)? His elder brother, (name witheld). His only business is to keep one wife and have a big establishment. He has got four, five wives—one Bengali, one U.P., one Marwari, one this—and each wife's establishment not less than ten thousand per month. And his business is morning to this wife and evening to this wife and noon to this wife, this wife. And he is old man. The wives do not care for him, and she is doing everything whatever, with the secretary. That's all. It is going on. I have seen. I was guest in his home, and this rascal is doing this. He is earning money, black market, white market, this mar... At any cost, and spending like this. That's all. There are many persons. Oh, in Europe also, the same thing. In Paris very, very old men, seventy-five years old, eighty years, they go to the night club. Entrance fee fifty dollar, then pay for the woman, wine. Spend few hours and spend two hundred, three hundred, five hundred dollars-go home. Then tranquilizer pill and sleep. This is going on. Therefore mūḍha.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...given by God. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanam. You have no intelligence even, so that is given by God. (Hindi) Let them become devotees. Why these old men, they are not coming? They are still after money? Amara ajñaya guru hana tara ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128), Caitanya Mahāprabhu says. So you have come to this country. Do something good for these Africans. Let them become devotee. Where is that attempt? The white men, they also came to exploit them, and you have also come to exploit them. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "No-para upakara." Upakara kara. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... They are not so advanced; make them advanced. That is real cooperation. (Hindi) (break) Just like every one of them is attached to remain in Africa, continuing to... But they are being forcefully driven away: "Go away." Attachment must be there. The Englishmen, they have got attachment, but they were forcefully driven away. Similarly, this conditioned soul, he has got attachment. And śāstra and śāstra... These people were driven away by śāstra,, by weapon, knife. That is śāstra. And śāstra is the same thing, but it is books. Therefore it is called śāstra.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ācārya means Vaiṣṇava. Ayar. Ayar. And avaiṣṇava, Nayar, yes.
Dr. Patel: Nayars are non-Aryans. Then the... All Nayars are black, charcoal black, because they are not Aryans. Aryans have the white, light skin.
Prabhupāda: Even in Madras there are many brāhmaṇas, black.
Dr. Patel: Brāhmaṇas, they are Ayars. They are quite... Even though they have settled in Madras for generations together, they are still having the color of... (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: No, no. Āryas, they are not Vaiṣṇava, then. Ayar? Eh?
Indian man (1): Śaṅkarācāryādi.(?)
Prabhupāda: Ācāryas, they are Vaiṣṇava.
Prabhupāda: That is simply cheating, powdered milk. It is white water, that's all. Powdered milk means white water. It has no value.
Haṁsadūta: In Moscow too, Anand Shanti, he was telling. When we were there we wanted to buy milk, and they had milk in bottles, but he told me, he said, "This is not milk." He said "First they dehydrate it, make it to powder. Then they again add water and put it in the bottle, because in this way they can keep it a long time." So we couldn't find any real milk even in Moscow, the biggest city in the country.
Prabhupāda: I think Moscow they have milk and butter.
Haṁsadūta: At least when I was there we couldn't find any.
Prabhupāda: Oh, then finished. All cows finished, cutting throat.
Haṁsadūta: Butter they have, but it's not very good quality.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Adulterate. I thought at least they have got little milk and butter, but that is also finished.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) In your country nobody likes white, they have begun to tan. So you are not (in) good shape in consideration of ladies. (chuckling) How you can say that it is not in good shape? It has got another lady to appreciate. You may not appreciate. One man, lady, may not appreciate your beauty but that does not mean you are not beautiful.
Caitya-guru: It says ulu.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Caitya-guru: Name of that tree.
Devotee: Ulu.
Harikeśa: Sometimes the trees just die because there's not sufficient . . .
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is not the standard that you do not like somebody, therefore he is not liked by others. That is not very good argument. That is applicable everywhere. The point is that it is a living entity, it so stout and strong, who is giving him food? That is the point.
Dr. Patel: (also laughing) I don't know, sir. But I... I am a rebellion against them. In 1958, sir, I told you, the Congress, when I was a member of Congress, that I can't be the member of such an institution which just simply lies, telling white lies.
Prabhupāda: No, no. You may say about congressman, and this one, Communist man; everyone is under...
Dr. Patel: Is a rascal.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our verdict. Mūḍha. We understand from Bhagavad-gītā...
Dr. Patel: Why mūḍha, sir. Mudhatamaḥ!
Prabhupāda: Yes, vimūḍha. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says not only mūḍha but vimūḍha; viśeṣa-mūḍha especifical. Prahlādah Mahārāja says the same thing: tato vimūkha-cetasā. Vimūkha cetasā means one who does not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme. Tato vimukha-cetasa soce, and simply thinking of desires. Who are this? Those who are nondevotees, one who does not surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Tato vimukha-cetasa. So why you are searching? Māy-sukhāya: simply for so-called sense gratification for a few days, bhāram udvahato vimūḍhān, making big, big plans. I am thinking of these rascals. What for they are making big, big plans? They will stay here for a few days, and forgetting Kṛṣṇa consciousness they are busy in making plans. This is Prahlāda Mahārāja. And Kṛṣṇa says they are mūḍha, vimūḍha. As soon as you find one, not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's immediately mūḍha, vimūḍha. Na mā duṣkṛtino mūḍh prapdyante narādhamāḥ.
Prabhupāda: No, this is not Hinduism. Appears like Hindu. Just like you appear like an Indian sannyāsī, but you are not Indian.
Acyutānanda: The judge is wearing a white wig and a British suit. He's not British either.
Prabhupāda: No, we are clearly stating Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Harikeśa: Yes, but Kṛṣṇa is a Hindu god.
Prabhupāda: That is your definition. Kṛṣṇa doesn't say.
Harikeśa: But my definition counts 'cause I'm in charge.
Prabhupāda: You can do any nonsense. That is.... Therefore you have to be taken to the court, that "How you can..."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But they are the court.
Prabhupāda: "...talk like nonsense and do like nonsense? Then anyone can do any nonsense thing? Then who will control you?"
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. I thought only Indians attended.
Harikeśa: Oh, no.
Prabhupāda: No, no. White men. Yes. And in Melbourne the priests also appreciated. So any sane man will appreciate our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. These are very strong words, that "You have created a civilization of pig, and for making perfect that civilization you are working like ass." So what is the advancement? A ass is trying to become a pig. What is that civilization? The ideal is to become a pig, and for that, fulfillment of that idea, they are working like ass. Is it not? Just see. Think over.
Prabhupāda: (laughter) All rascals. Scientists means all rascals. That I know. You haven't got to explain. I am trying to understand that if the sun is... Suppose a red light is fixed. So red light is always red light. Why it should be white? What is the cause?
Jagadīśa: They say there's a spec...
Prabhupāda: "They say." What you say? What you have understood?
Jagadīśa: There's a spectrum of different colors which, combined together, is white light, but when the light bends, the different colors of light bend at different angles so that the...
Prabhupāda: Why the light bends? I am a crude man; I am not scientist. I say I see one red light there. So it is always red. Why it should be white?
Jagadīśa: But the sunlight...
Prabhupāda: Again "sunlight." Please explain this. The light is fixed, and it is reddish. So why it should change?
Jagadīśa: Only part of the light reaches us, the red part, not all the...
Prabhupāda: Anyway, the color changes.
Jagadīśa: Because in the beginning, when the sun is red, only the red part of the light spectrum reaches our eyes.
Prabhupāda: Oh. That means it is moving. Red part is gone. Then white part comes.
Jagadīśa: Then, when the rest of the light reaches our eyes it becomes white.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say we are moving. It is not moving; we are moving.
Prabhupāda: I am moving.
Prabhupāda: But that's all... But why the color should change? That is point. You may move...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because, he's explaining, that light is seen when it bends... White light when it bends at different angles...
Prabhupāda: That is only applicable when you accept that the sun is moving. Therefore atmosphere is going...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, the earth is moving.
Jagadīśa: They say the earth is turning. Therefore at a certain point the sun is actually below the horizon, but part of the sun's light, the red spectral, the red light of the sun, comes over the horizon and so the sun appears...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Red, but actually it's not reddish; it's white or yellow, whatever.
Prabhupāda: Actually it is white, that's all right, but if you see one fixed thing, a color, practical experience is the color does not change if it is fixed up.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Supposing you are... Supposing there's a white light, and you are situated here, and in front of you is a screen with many colors, and you are moving different ways along this screen. Sometimes you are looking through a green, sometimes... in that way although the light is fixed up, because you are moving behind different colors...
Prabhupāda: So where is that screen?
Jagadīśa: That's called the spectrum.
Prabhupāda: Spectrum. So where is that? That is also finished?
Hṛdayānanda: The atmosphere is.
Jagadīśa: Seeing through some color.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like there are... In your window there is glass, red. So sun is passing; you say sun red. And again it has come; it is white. That is our...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So the scientists say the same thing except they say that the earth is moving, not the sun. Same explanation you have given for the colors, they give, except that they say that the earth that is moving, not the sun. They wouldn't accept that point as a proof that the sun is moving.
Prabhupāda: No, sun is moving because the earth and the sun... The distance is the same, but you can calculate the distance from the rising up to the... It is millions, millions of miles. So unless the sun is moving, the earth cannot move so swiftly.
Prabhupāda: ...by prakṛti how intelligently.
Acyutānanda: Even if they can make chemical colors, it's not as nice as the flowers.
Prabhupāda: That... Apart from that, everything... sarva-kāma-dugdha-mahī. From the earth, everything is there. This green color is there, this red color is there, the pink color is there, this white color is there, but you cannot separate. Where is your chemistry? Take the color, the flavor, from the earth.
Prabhupāda: With so much bunch of hair. Who are these men? Oh, they're working.
Bhāvānanda: They're paṇḍal...
Jayapatāka: They are making a paṇḍal.
Prabhupāda: (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Black and white frame.
Guru-kṛpā: Salt and pepper.
Prabhupāda: Actually our, this society is united nations. And if we become disunited, then it is very difficult to adjust. (break) Yes. Linguist.
Prabhupāda: Don't become paramahaṁsa immediately. Paramahaṁsa is the last stage of sannyāsa. First stage is kuticaka. Second stage is parivrājakācārya. Third stage is.... No, first stage is kuticaka. Then second stage is bahudaka, bahudaka. And third stage is parivrājakācārya, and fourth stage is paramahaṁsa. Therefore paramahaṁsa stage is the topmost.
Lokanātha: They have got white? Do they wear white?
Prabhupāda: They are not under any rule and regulation, paramahaṁsa. Paramahaṁsa means, just like mlecchas and yavanas, they are not under any rules and regulation. Similarly, a paramahaṁsa is also not under any rules and regulation. He can do whatever he likes. Śāstra is not meant for him. Avadhūta. He is not in the material world, mahābhāva. So that is the last stage of sannyāsa. Kuṭicaka means when from family life, vānaprastha, and then one takes sannyāsa, that is kuṭicaka. Kuṭicaka means he does not remain at home but goes outside home, outside the village area and makes a kuti, cottage, and lives there. But because he is not accustomed to beg, from his house some foodstuff is sent. Just like you are sending to that Sharma some food? This is kuṭicaka. But after some time, when he's little experienced, then he goes from door to door: "Give me a piece of bread." Madhukārī. Madhukāra. Madhukāra means the bee, honeybee.
Prabhupāda: No, how you'll find it? Give me. Unless you have an index, list.... The purport of the verse is that even Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu—He is God himself, Kṛṣṇa Himself—He felt, alone, unable to do this task. He felt. So this is the position. You are cooperating; therefore I am getting the credit. Otherwise alone what could I do? Ekākī āmāra nāhi pāya bolo. Caitanya Mahāprabhu Himself wanted our cooperation. He is God, Kṛṣṇa. And therefore cooperation is very important thing. Nobody should think that "I have got so great ability. I can do." No. It is simply by cooperation we can do very big thing. "United we stand; divided we fall." This is our.... So be strong in pushing on Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and Kṛṣṇa will help. He is the strongest. Still, we must be combined together. Saṅkīrtana. Saṅkīrtana means many men combined together chanting. That is saṅkīrtana. Otherwise kīrtana. Saṅkīrtana. Bahubhir militvā kīrtayeti saṅkīrtana.(?) Bahu. Bahu means many, many combined together. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, combined together. All nations, all persons they should combine together. There is hope in our society, combination. There are Hindus; there are Muslims; there are Christians; there are black, white. Combine them. That looks very beautiful, just like combination of many flowers.
Prabhupāda: That is my contention.
Trivikrama: They say the moon is bright, just like if a cloud is in the sky, it appears very white and bright because the sun is hitting it. But the same cloud, if you bring it into the room, it's just mist.
Prabhupāda: But cloud is not always existing. But this brightness is always existing. Cloud is sometimes appearing, sometimes disappearing. The moon brightness is regular. How you can compare with cloud? When you compare, there must be consistency. Analogy. Analogy means similar position. Otherwise, analogy has no meaning.
Prabhupāda: College. That is.... College, universities, that is educated.... So I was surprised when, after my meeting, they purchased books, because these South African white men, they do not like very much Indians. Is it not?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's a fact.
Prabhupāda: But still, they like this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is very good sign.
Prabhupāda: Neti neti. "This not soul, this is not soul, this is not soul." Then still, there is the living force. Avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. Immediately come to the conclusion. But they have analytical laboratory, but they have no brain how to analyze. They are thinking that because the blood has become white, therefore life has been lost. So is it very difficult to make the secretion within the body red?
Dr. Patel: No.
Prabhupāda: You can make it red.
Prabhupāda: Nothing. Artificial blood.... Superficially it is red water. So if red water is the life, then why you are spoiling so much blood? Keep it scientifically and push it into the dead body. I say it is, that way, it is the red water, nothing but red water. Urine is white water. I am coming to the five elements, air, water.... Then what is this bone? Earth. You can manufacture bone, hard bone, with earth or wood or something plastic. So we are analyzing the combination of the body, so everything you can manufacture. But where is the life you can manufacture? Why do you say? That is our challenge. All the ingredients of the body you can manufacture exactly like that. Ultimately you can give the beauty also of the woman or the man. But where is life? Bring life by all these things. Then I will say that you are scientist. Otherwise cheater, simply bluffing people. This thing should be stopped. Where you get the information that this, from matter life is possible. "In future." But in future.... In inceptive condition you show something. Just like formerly they were flying balloons. So because they were flying, they could say that "Future we shall fly a big city." And in the history we can see that that is not impossible, because in the inceptive condition or initiative condition we see that big things can be flown. But here you cannot even prepare an ant. You have not been able to prepare even a small ant, germ. Show me.
Guru-kṛpā: You know, and they never saw a white man there before. So the natives there in Hawaii were very enamored to see such a big white man, so they took him as God, and they were worshiping him. And one day...
Prabhupāda: Captain Cook?
Guru-kṛpā: Yes. And one day he was walking across the rocks and he hit his foot on a rock and he began to bleed. When they saw the blood, they said, "He is not a God. He is just like us." So they killed him and ate him.
Prabhupāda: Oh, oh. Killed him?
Guru-kṛpā: Yeah, they killed him and ate him.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Guru-kṛpā: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: He was eaten?
Guru-kṛpā: Yes. (laughter) He was taking advantage of their ignorance. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...these original Hawaiians, they were man-eaters.
Prabhupāda: They would not allow.
Guru-kṛpā: Yes, they don't allow.
Devotee (3): They have the "white Australia policy." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...Chinese man, Indians, they will come in large number. But they will not allow. That is the difficulty.
Guru-kṛpā: There's more cows in this country than people.
Prabhupāda: They are killing?
Guru-kṛpā: They are eating them.
Prabhupāda: And other countries, they are starving for want of milk. Therefore I say the United Nation simply barking dogs. What is the value if they cannot adjust? United Nation, all the nations should take advantage all the facilities offered, but that they will not allow. And they are named, "United." Just see. Farce.
Brian Singer: Well, how do you see the person? By understanding? By...
Prabhupāda: Yes, by analysis, analysis. Now you.... I say that you are not this body. Now you say, "No, I am.... I am Mr. John. I am this body. I am American," "I am Australian." That is ignorance. You are neither Australian, neither American, neither white, neither black. That you have to understand. Neither coat, neither pant. You are different from all these things. That is the first understanding. If we analyze our body and if we at least theoretically understand that "I am not this body," then you are..., you come to the spiritual platform.
Prabhupāda: Then we discuss other things. This is the primary education of spiritual life. First of all you have to understand that you are not this body. You are living entity, different from the body. Just like you are different from the shirt-coat. But the difficulty is, the person who is in a different type of shirt-coat, he is identifying with the shirt-coat, and they are fighting. You have got black coat. You have got white coat. You have got yellow coat. But they do not understand, none of us belong to the coat. We are different from the coat. That is ignorance. The whole world is going on under this impression that "I am this body." So how there will be peace? That kind of thinking is there in the dogs, in the cats. So our point is that if you remain like cats and dogs, how you can attain peace? You are endeavoring for peace. It is not possible. First of all you understand yourself. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). These things are discussed there.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Now I am confused about my duty and have lost all composure because of weakness. In this condition I am asking You to tell me clearly what is best for me."
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. So because he accepted discipleship, so He immediately chastised him that "You rascal, you are talking like a very learned man, but you are on the platform of bodily conception of life, the platform of the animals." Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). Anyone who accepts this body as self, he's animal. He's not even a human being. So the whole world is on this bodily concept of life. That is going on. "American," "European," "Hindu," "Muslim," "black," "white," this, that. They do not know what is education. That is the first education, that "You rascal, you are not this body. You are within the body." So who understands this? And they're declaring that "We are student of Bhagavad-gītā. We have studied Bhagavad-gītā." Hmm? Even Gandhi, he takes photograph with Bhagavad-gītā, but his fighting is for nationalism. The others are doing that. So what is the use of taking Bhagavad-gītā? The Pakistanis are also doing that. But you have taken Bhagavad-gītā, you are doing the same work. So what is your credit? This is going on. So nobody is learning Bhagavad-gītā. It is first time that we are teaching Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Otherwise, everyone is misled. The subject matter is that the soul is different from this body.
Prabhupāda: And the gopīs were thinking "What this rascal says, say?" (chuckles) They are so sorry that, "We have come leaving everything and this rascal is giving us moral instruction." This is love, they can chastise Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...somehow or other, black market, white market, red market. Let them make... And as soon as there is taste, there will be very good demand. And this black marketeer will make profit and they'll do. This Chinese policy or the Russian policy will not stand. Simply we require to make ourselves strong. As soon as we become stronger than the communist movement, we shall finish it.
Prabhupāda: Balavanta may be his secretary. He can.... (laughter)
Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I was told you once said that he would be in the White House before he's forty years old.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, I did not.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was only to encourage him.
Rāmeśvara: Oh, to encourage him. Also, Śrīla Prabhupāda...
Prabhupāda: If you bring public in your favor, it is not difficult.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a fact. You have to bring them in your favor.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "A Kṛṣṇa conscious man. He's a Kṛṣṇa conscious man. Give him vote." This opinion. That's all.
Prabhupāda: It was all manufactured by the Britishers. To keep their faith with other nations, they were protesting that "Why you are keeping India dependent?" So they were pleading that "We are making India civilized." That was their propaganda.
Rāmeśvara: "The white man's burden," they called it.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. If that is a fact, that there is no life, then you prepare egg. What is there? Some white chemicals. A little yellow. You can do it.
Rāmeśvara: Just like abortion. They have a process to take the egg from the hen, and they make sure that the egg will not grow into a chicken. It is like an abortion.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. The life is there. You make some arrangement that it will not take part. That is another thing. If it is a fact that the egg is not life, then why you rascal do not manufacture a chemical egg and get a chicken? Why you rascal talking nonsense? That is our challenge. We say "rascals" not without consideration, because actually they talk like nonsense. Rascals. They cannot do, and still they'll insist they will do. That is rascal. Is it all right? (laughs) South, South America, er, South Africa, there are so many factories of begetting chicken.
Prabhupāda: Johannesburg. From the downtown, the Indian quarters about ten miles or fifteen miles away. Indian.... African, black quarters, they are not allowed even to enter the city. They require a pass. If any black man enters the city without that passport, he will immediately be taken to police. The bus for the black man is different from the white man. I think Indians also they have got separate bus. But the bus in which the white men travel, the Indians and the black men are not allowed. Gandhi tried to adjust this injustice, but he failed. Then with determination he went to India, that "I must drive away the Englishmen." These South African white men, mostly they are Englishmen and Dutchmen. Originally, they were Englishmen and Dutchmen.
Dr. Wolfe: Prabhupāda, the strange thing is that the fiercest racists in South Africa are the Boers, the Afrikaners...
Prabhupāda: That is Englishmen, Dutchmen, Dutchmen.
Prabhupāda: But that, they cannot do it. They cannot make any dull matter moving by chemical combination. Although they cannot do it, still they talk of it. That is another foolishness. We say that you.... Egg, everyone can see some white matter, some yellow matter, and some covering, plasticlike. So a chemical, mostly chemicals are white. So combine the chemicals and make white and cover it with plastic and give it to the incubator. Why the chicken is not coming? Hm? And why they talk nonsense that it is a chemical combination? They cannot experiment it, neither they can do it, and still they'll talk nonsense. What do you think?
Interviewer: What do I think?
Prabhupāda: Yes, this nonsense talking that chemical combination, there is life. Why don't you do it?
Interviewer: I think it's a continuing to search for whatever...
Prabhupāda: That any nonsense can say, that "I am continuing," but where is the result? When the result is expected?
Interviewer: I'm sorry, I can't understand.
Prabhupāda: When the result will be out!
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is black and we worship Him. (laughter) You have seen our Deity? Yes. Kṛṣṇa is from your community. (Prabhupāda laughs) There is no question of black and white. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is above the skin—the soul which is there. Either he's black or white or yellow, it doesn't matter. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). This is the first education, that do not take the body, but the living force within the body. That is important; we have to understand that. We are talking from that platform. Therefore sometimes it is little difficult, because people are very much absorbed with bodily concept of life. But our philosophy begins from that platform where there is no more bodily concept of life. Therefore it is little difficult.
Prabhupāda: Everyone tries. That is not a particular job for you. Everyone is trying; the cats and dogs, they are also trying. The cat also very much anxious to give protection to the cubs, innocent, helpless. The dog also giving. The birds, they're bringing food for the offspring, and as soon as the mother comes, they become very much engladdened, "Oh, here is food, here is food." And they, with the mouth, they.... So this kind of sentiment is there even in the cats, dogs, animals, birds, beasts. That is natural. But we do not know how to do actual welfare activity. Somebody's engaged with his family. Somebody is engaged with his own body. Somebody.... This is only development of consciousness. The animals, they are interested with the body, himself. The human being, they are interested with the extension of the body. Just like I am alone now. Now when I become, you young men, then I have got my wife, then my interest is also for my wife. The wife's interest is for the husband. In this way, children, then interest extended, husband, wife, children. Then, this is family-wise. Then little advancement, of the society. Little advancement, community. Just like in your country, the sense of black community, white community. Then, above that, for the nation. When there is war between America and other nation, then you black and white people forget the small interest for national interest. You advance to fight, to lay down your life. So in this way we can make progress, but such progress is not perfection. Such progress is not perfection. The example is given, just like there is tree, and the whole tree is full of branches, twigs and leaves and flowers and fruits. So somebody is watering the fruit, somebody is watering the leaf, somebody is watering the branches, somebody the twigs, but everyone is improper.
Jackie Vaughn: I suppose we could use the same analogy for black and white getting together. Ofttimes, we all become impatient because of the progress appears to be so very, very slow.
Prabhupāda: Slow, but sure, that is wanted. If you are slow, it is not bad, but it must be sure. But if you become very busy without any surety, then what is this? Simply waste of time. Slow, there is English word, "Slow but sure."
Jackie Vaughn: Slow but sure.
Prabhupāda: Sure. So what we are proposing, that is sure success. And all other things, they are very busy but no success. This is the difference. So what is the use of that business if you are going to be failure? So we see from the history these attempts have always been failure. Now this man who constructed this house, he never thought that I shall come here to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So his attempt is failure.
Prabhupāda: Why not? He's the most beautiful. Otherwise, why people are attracted? There is a verse in the Brahma-saṁhitā: kandarpa-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobham (Bs. 5.30); barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda-sundarāṅgam. He has got one peacock feather on His head and He's blackish, but wonderfully beautiful. These words are used. Kandarpa-koṭi-kamanīya. He's so beautiful that thousands of Cupids cannot be compared with His beauty. Cupid is understood to be the most beautiful person within this universe. You know Cupid? Yes. He enchants by beauty. But Kṛṣṇa's beauty is so great that millions of beauty, kandarpa or Cupid, cannot be compared with Him. Kandarpa-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobhaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi (Bs. 5.30). It is a question of attraction. It is not a question of black and white. Attraction. So unless Kṛṣṇa is beautiful, why He has got so many millions of devotees? This very word is kandarpa-koṭi. Barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda-sundarāṅgam. His blackness is compared with the black cloud. Asita-ambuda, ambuda means the cloud. The black cloud is full of water. When there is black cloud in the sky, you can be sure that the rain is going to fall down. Not the white cloud. White cloud means no water. Is it not? So you understand this philosophy and add water to the suffering humanity. They are suffering in the burning, blazing fire of material existence.
Ambarīṣa: This used to be actually the best street in Detroit. About maybe seventy-five years ago, all the wealthy people lived on this street, Jefferson Avenue, and then the black people moved in and took over, and then all their businesses, they went out of business, and now it's all boarded up. Very dangerous place. All the white people in the suburbs, they live in fear of all the black people in the city.
Prabhupāda: The government cannot manage?
Ambarīṣa: No. The mayor is black. The police they cannot do anything.
Devotee (4): The police force is also becoming black. He's putting black men in charge of every department of the city, and they're mismanaging everything.
Prabhupāda: There is possibility of another civil war?
Ambarīṣa: Yes. Possibly some sort of a race war or something. In Boston, they have a lot of trouble because of this bussing. They bus the black children into the white neighborhoods to go to school to achieve equal education, and the white communities do not like this. In Boston there has been a lot of violence between the black people and the white people. Very much hatred, very much hate each other.
Prabhupāda: So only remedy is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Ambarīṣa: Yes. About a month ago there was a black lawyer, and he was walking out of the City Hall in Boston, and some white people beat him with an American flag. They beat him with an American flag and hurt him very badly, and this caused very much...
Prabhupāda: Commotion.
Ambarīṣa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: There is hatred within. Artificially they have given equal rights.
Prabhupāda: Now if the child is.... If the father puts the seed in the black wife, the child may come in black body. In the white body, the child may come in white body. So the body is different according to the mother, but the soul is the same. One gets the body according to the body of the mother. But either in the black body or the white body the soul is the same. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). This simple truth they cannot understand, common sense. In one minute it can be understood. The father..., mother is there and the child is there. So there must be father. How one can deny?
Guest: Do we have any other goal in life than this...
Prabhupāda: Well, the first thing is that you must know what you are. You should know that the mother is nature and the father is God. I am the child. Then you try to understand the father and the son obedience to father. Then you have to learned how to become obedient to the father. Then father will be pleased. And this father is not a poor father. He has created the whole material world.
Hari-śauri: But even accepting their idea that things are produced from chemical reactions, who is creating the chemical reactions?
Prabhupāda: Yes, put this chemical together and bring life. Where is the life? We ask, prepare one egg. You can analyze the white part and the yellow part of the egg, and you find some chemical properties. You bring them together and put in the same layer and everything. Now produce life. Where is that science? Simply talking. "Yes, we shall do. We are trying." Nonsense, trying. What is the use of trying? It is already there. God sent egg through the chicken; it will produce life. So why you are wasting your time in this way? Rather, try to understand the person who has got such a brain that within this chemical composition there is life. You cannot do it; therefore you inferior. Somebody has done it. Even if you say "Nature has done it," nature is then powerful. You are not even to the level of nature, what to speak of God. Nature is only one of the energies of God. You cannot understand even the energy. How you will understand the energetic?
Hari-śauri: It's difficult to understand how they could possibly say that there's no intelligence.
Prabhupāda: "And what nonsense book you have got? (laughter) We are going to stop your sales." Tell them. "And we are going to stop your sales. Instead of helping you for selling your books, we are going to stop all these nonsense books. That is our mission." Tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham. That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo jagat-pavitraṁ pragṛṇīta karhicit, tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham uśanti mānasāḥ (SB 1.5.10). That verse, that however nicely it is written with..., what is called, metaphor, poetic ornaments and very good language, grammatical set-up, and so on, so on. So that, although it is very nicely written from literary point of view, but because it does not contain any glorification of Kṛṣṇa, it is just like the spot where the crows take pleasure. Crows. The crows means they go the nasty place where all nasty things are thrown. They take pleasure there. So all these other literatures, they are meant for the crows. And this literature is meant for the swan, paramahaṁsa, white swans. So it is not the bodily color. It means those who are advanced in their development of life, consciousness, it is meant for them. It is not for the crows, who are still eating all nasty things in the garbage. Crows, they do that. They take pleasure where there are garbage, all nasty things and.... And the big swans, they will like water like this, garden like this. That is.... Even in the lower animals, there is difference between the crow's society and swan's society.
Scheverman: The President, White House Secretary, his personal secretary.
Hari-śauri: So far, after one month, there's no reply.
Scheverman: Bureaucracy. We have lots of that. You may get a reply, and then again you may not. You'll get a reply, but it would be very general I presume, originally. It's a good idea.
Prabhupāda: No, I think that for the welfare of the whole human society.... America is opulent. They can start, that here is a college for training first-class men. Here is a college for training second-class men, and here is a college for third-class men, and balance fourth class. Fourth-class man doesn't require any training. They are simply to help the first class, second class, third class.
Prabhupāda: There is only one way. Just like the spirit soul is within you and within me. Your skin may be white, my skin may be colored, but within, the spirit soul, what is there in you, that is in me also. There is not change on account of the body. Therefore to understand that spirit soul, there is only one way. There is no second way. Because it is not experimental; it is already there. If it is based on experiment and observation, then my experiment, your experiment may be different. But it is a fact that the soul is there, and as soon as the soul is gone from the body, the body is a dead lump of matter. That you have to understand. And any gentleman, any sensible man can understand it, that soul is there although we are changing body. Just like you were a child. That's a fact. But where is that child's body? Now your body's different. Is it not a fact? What do you think? So where is that body, your child's body?
Kathy Kerr: It's material, I would say.
Kathy Kerr: So that means then that our society then gives certain people certain status just because of their job, that's not correct.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We must come to the correct position of our spiritual life, then it is perfection of life. Otherwise, they're ignorant. If the husband comes at home and the wife calls him by the name, "John, come here." "Oh, you are not addressing 'my lord,' " it will be ridiculous. He might be "my lord," in the court, but when he's in the family, the wife calls by the name. So our, with the change of dress we are changing our name, circumstances, thoughts, and everything. Therefore we find differentiation. American, Indian, Hindu, Muslim, black, white, this, these are all designation of the dress. And therefore we do not agree. As soon as I accept, identify myself with the dress, there will be disagreement. And as soon as we, everyone of us, we know that this is superficial, this is dress, I am spirit soul, then there will be agreement. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, find out this verse. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu (BG 18.54). So without this understanding they have opened United Nations, keeping them cats and dogs. And they are simply barking, that's all. This is going on. For the last forty years simply they are barking. What achievement is there? In your country, who is the president gave the black man same liberty?
Jayādvaita: Lincoln.
Prabhupāda: Lincoln. Equal right, but actually, there is some tension, black and white. Because they are not on the spiritual platform.
Viśvakarmā: In Canada, Prabhupāda, it's the French and the English.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere, some tension. The Catholic, the Protestant; the black, the white; the Hindu, the Muslim. That must go on because if we accept on the platform of dress, of body, then there must be ignorance. Read that verse and explain to her.
Jayādvaita: "One who is thus transcendentally situated at once realizes the Supreme Brahman and becomes fully joyful. He never laments nor desires to have anything; he is equally disposed to every living entity. In that state he attains pure devotional service unto Me."
Prabhupāda: Equally disposed. As soon as he knows that I am not this body, I am spirit soul, then there is no distinction. Just like two American goes to India. So when they understand that "We are Americans," immediately their interest becomes one, although they are in the foreign country. That is psychology. Similarly, as soon as we come to the spiritual platform, there is no such distinction as black, white, Hindu, Muslim, Christian. Everything finished.
Prabhupāda: It is more than hell. There is no life. I have been in Tata steel iron factory. I saw it is a hell. One melting pot just like a skyscraper building. You have seen?
Hari-śauri: I used to work on them, same thing. I was working where they pour the metal into ingots, into casings, and then when it solidifies they take a chunk of iron out, it's still white hot, and then they put it in ovens. And then after a while, when they need them, they take them out with big cranes and they put them on a series of rollers, and then it goes through a mill, what they call a mill. It's like a big mangling machine, and it crushes the steel ingot into plates, big plates. Then it goes along and it's cut and sent out. It cools down on big banks and it's sent out. So my job was, I was doing maintenance fitting on all those machines. On the rollers and on the cranes and on the big mills, like that. It was terrible. We used to work from two o'clock in the afternoon until ten o'clock at night, one shift, then from ten until six, and then from six until two.
Prabhupāda: Eight hours. Without any recreation?
Hari-śauri: Well, one break, for lunch. It was just indescribable. There's so much heat and fumes, and always covered in oil and grease, crawling around on your hands and knees to fix some machine.
Jagadīśa: All for the advantage of some wealthy man.
Prabhupāda: And after this hard labor, his only recreation is wine.
Hari-śauri: They used to call that the "white man's burden."
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. So these English people, they were very expert in making propaganda. They killed Hitler by propaganda. I don't think Hitler was so bad man. What do you think? You are Englishman. (laughter)
Hari-śauri: It's getting.... (laughs) Just from hearing you speak in the last few months I can understand that the whole history that I was ever presented in school is completely warped around to the way that the English saw it, especially the last two centuries, when the British empire was on the move. It's completely...
Prabhupāda: But actually, the war was between Germany and England. Others joined, some interest or something. Actually, the war was to be fought between England and Germany.
Prabhupāda: German people still hate England. They do not like to speak in English; that I have seen. In the bank they know English, but they won't speak it. English everyone knows. The Kaiser was against. They said that Kaiser is the grandson of Queen Victoria, from daughter's side. And King George from the son's side—Edward's seventh son. They were cousin brothers. So this Kaiser, when he was young boy, went to paternal uncle's house, when he was a young boy. So there was some playing, cut with a knife. So royal family, so many doctors came. So the boy was saying, "Why you are trying to cure it? Let the English blood go away." So from the childhood he was so inimical, that "I have got some English blood in my body, my mother is English, father German, so let the English blood go away." I do not know if that is fact, I heard it. (laughs) Maybe. It is joking also and serious. In our childhood in school, a book was there, "England's Work in India." One Mr. M. Ghosh, he wrote this book just to flatter the Englishmen. This, that "white man's burden."
Prabhupāda: And the white men, they are very much afraid of these black men. They have to be afraid.
Jagadīśa: They've taken over the city.
Prabhupāda: Without them, the factories cannot go on. That's all. The white men cannot work so hard. How they...? No gentleman can do that. This kind of work is meant for the fourth-class, fifth-class men. Therefore they cannot say anything. They require. And they know that their money will be taken away again by supplying them wine. They'll pay, and next moment, the wine merchant will take away. And the government will get huge profit without doing anything. And excise tax. Excise tax, government hasn't got to invest or do anything—simply take the tax.
Prabhupāda: There is no distinction between man and woman. That is clearly said in the Bhagavad-gītā. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpā-yonayaḥ striyo śūdrās tathā vaiśyāḥ (BG 9.32). The first is mentioned, striya. Striyaḥ śūdrās tathā vaiśyāḥ. These classes are understood to be less intelligent-woman, śūdra, and the vaiśyas. But Kṛṣṇa says, "No, even for them it is open." Because in the spiritual platform there is no such distinction, man, woman, or black, white, or big or small. No. Everyone is spirit soul. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini śuni caiva śva-pāke ca paṇḍitāḥ (BG 5.18), one who is actually learned, he is sama-darśinaḥ. He does not make any distinction. But so far our material body is concerned, there must be some distinction for keeping the society in order.
Kīrtanānanda: I think it was just ten years ago when I first met you.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I never said that "You have to give up this, you have to do this." Never said. Then gradually ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). When the heart becomes cleansed, then little. There is no hopelessness. So many people have come, and they are coming. Both black, white, everyone is coming. There is no question of (indistinct). But you cannot expect that cent percent people will come; that is not possible. But even, even one-fourth percent people come to this, then it will be successful. Compared to the American population, what percentage we have got? Still they have made some impression, the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. Literatures are selling, they are appreciating, learned circle. Takes some time, but if we stick to our principles and do not make any compromise and push on—in this way, I have given you instruction, it will never stop; it will go on. It will never stop. At least for ten thousand years it will go on
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's desire. White sand, wherefrom you secure?
Kīrtanānanda: In Ohio, about sixty miles from here.
Prabhupāda: From the seaside, sea beach? No.
Kīrtanānanda: No, they call it silica sand. I think it's made from glass.
Prabhupāda: Not glass, it is a kind of stone made powder. Silica sand. They are like sandstone.
Kīrtanānanda: This is just the first cut, not polished. Now, in this dome you see this is a...
Prabhupāda: No, while constructing, filling up this, what is called, column, in Bombay, they're putting air so that they become solid stone. You have seen in Bombay? Big engineer, they are giving some pumping air so that while the cement is filled up, it becomes solid.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. What for these marbles?
Kīrtanānanda: That will go on the wall in the bathroom, Italian cremo marble. Here's a picture of how the windows are being done in jāli work. This is being cast out of white cement.
Prabhupāda: Doing here?
Kīrtanānanda: Yes. This is some of the castings they've done. This goes up on the ceiling.
Prabhupāda: Cornice.
Kīrtanānanda: Cornice, yes. Then around the top of the building on the outside, there's a railing with these balusters.
Prabhupāda: This is made of cement?
Kīrtanānanda: No, this one is plaster, this was our first model, but the ones that will be used will be done out of cement. This is very light. Do you have your drawing of the outside?
Prabhupāda: Somebody's staying here?
Kīrtanānanda: Yes, Bhāgavatānanda and a couple of the other construction members stay here. (break) This is the way it will look when it's finished—the balusters and the brackets supporting the sunshade. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...When God is there, within the heart, He'll give you, "Do like this." Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi taṁ yena mām upayānti te. If one is sincere to serve the Lord, the Lord is situated in everyone's heart, He'll give him, "Do like this." Teṣām evānukampārtham aham (indistinct) (BG 10.11). It is special favor of God. Even if he's less aware of everything to be arranged(?), He'll give instruction, "Do like this." So there is no scarcity of instruction if one is sincere. Thank you very much. (leaves house) (break) ...I came to your country for preaching this, I had no idea how to do it. (laughs) But things are being model. People are surprised how within a short so many short years this world movement has sprung. I had no idea how to do it. (laughter)
Hari-śauri: I remember once there was one man, he was advertising himself, he was touring from one country to another, and he was advertising himself as being an expert meat-eater. And he said, one of his statements was you couldn't eat a beefsteak until it had little white spots all over it, then it was ready to eat.
Prabhupāda: White spot means decomposed. Fungus. Nānā yoni brāhmaṇa kare kadārya bhakṣaṇa kari' tāra janma adho pate yāya.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we can point out all the defects in their system but then they say "But there is no proof that such a perfect society has ever existed as you speak of. We have no evidence that such a perfect society exists."
Prabhupāda: You can see, come and see with us. Live in our New Vrindaban, you'll see.
Prabhupāda: Sympathetic.
Hari-śauri: Yes, because the devotees are not prejudiced in any way. We have white devotees and we have black devotees also. And if the neighbors want to come and see the place, then they are allowed in and shown around. We are about the only ones who could possibly live there.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Hari-śauri: We are the only ones that could live there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (long pause) What is the reason they are given equal facility, still they are so wretched, poor, ruffian?
Hari-śauri: Just low class. There's no intelligence how to utilize their wealth correctly.
Prabhupāda: Same thing in Africa.
Hari-śauri: I think you gave that example. If you give... If there's a dog and you put him on a king's throne, (Prabhupāda laughs) he'll still come and lick your feet.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he'll lick up shoes. Another example is given: (Bengali saying) aṅgārā śveta... (indistinct). If you take a piece of coal, you can wash it hundreds and thousands of times, it never becomes white. And these are material things, but spiritually you can reform. It doesn't matter. If one comes to the spiritual platform then everything possible. Otherwise not.
Hari-śauri: They're always looking for a platform of equality.
Prabhupāda: The black men.
Prabhupāda: This is equal—Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise not.
Hari-śauri: No. Materially speaking, they've tried so many ways to integrate the black with the whites here in America, but what has actually happened is, through those efforts, they've created a worse situation. By deliberately forcing black children and white children to go to the same schools... Sometimes they have what's called here bussing. It's a big major issue in politics now. Because they take all the black children and they take them to a white area just so that they can go to the school there. They actually take them further away from their local schools to another school, where it is all white children, so that they'll integrate and mix. So it's very controversial.
Prabhupāda: The parents won't like.
Hari-śauri: No. They say, because it's like an artificial.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is artificial. They are lowborn, there is no doubt about it. Otherwise, they are getting the all facilities, still they are wretched, poor, unclean, not educated, not gentle, everything. All bad behavior.
Prabhupāda: That is complacence. What is called? "Yes, in future we shall do." That's all. Then at present you cannot do. Then you are imperfect. Why you are declaring yourself as scientist? Scientist means who is in full knowledge. That is scientist. And if you are not in full knowledge, how you are scientist? "Big, big scientist, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy." Rascals say that chemical, combination of chemical, makes life. So we challenge that you begin from an egg. Everyone sees the egg—some white substance, some yellow substance, covered with some shells. So just manufacture it and give it to the incubator, and let the chicken come. Why you take the egg from another living chicken? What is the answer? You rascal, you make one small egg. We can see there are some white substance, yellow substance, so you combine some chemicals, white and yellow, and cover it with celluloid shell and put it under the incubator. You get. Why the rascals cannot do it? And still, the rascals will say that life can be..., is combination of chemicals. Give this challenge to these rascals, that "Life is... If it is combination of chemicals, why don't you do it, the simple thing?" Yes?
Janāhlāda: I was reading the other day where they have certain kinds of scientists who do nothing but make tastes out of chemicals. They say they can duplicate any taste, and they are very highly paid now for making synthetic foods taste like all other kinds of real foods.
Prabhupāda: And they'll not produce food.
Prabhupāda: This is very simple. You see everything, white and yellow. Produce. Chemicals are white. Some chemicals are yellow also. Just like hydroform(?). It is yellow. And soda bicarb, white, or potash cyanide is white. So you have got so many chemicals, combine and pack it in a cell, and put underneath the incubator. Why rascal do not do this? Beat them with shoes. "Rascal, you are cheating in this way." Beat them with shoes. That's all. That is the only punishment.
Hari-śauri: Yeah, that's too good.
Prabhupāda: Hundreds of men demand them, that "Do it, otherwise don't talk nonsense. If you talk nonsense, then we will beat you with all our shoes." Then they'll stop all this nonsense talk. There is no punishment for their cheating and taking money.
Prabhupāda: Lobster, it is simply pus. They eat. I've seen it. From whiteness it has become yellow. Puslike. They eat it, what is called that soup? Lobster soup?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Clam chowder? So many things.
Prabhupāda: But they like very much that lobster soup. In the plane, one Englishman was doing "What is this? I asked after lobster soup."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In England? Oysters?
Prabhupāda: No, lobsters.
Prabhupāda: Not only Christians, the whole world is now like that. Religion has become a subject matter of laughing. If one is God conscious, religious, he is considered fool number one, not very much advanced. Especially the scientists, the rascal scientists. And they'll bluff you in so many ways, that life is produced from chemicals. When we challenge them that "You make a little egg with chemicals and put it in the incubator and let life come," what will be the answer? The so-called scientist who says that life is made by combination of chemicals? Anyone can see the composition of egg, a little white and yellow substance. There are many chemicals, they are all white, and there are many chemicals yellow also. Combine together and put it in the incubator and see whether chicken is coming or not. And still they will assert, write big, big books, that life is coming out of chemicals. And people are accepting this bluff. So it is very precarious condition of present world. People want to be bluffed and there are many bluffers. And they are satisfied that "I am bluffed by a big bluffer." That's all. This is going on.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Our Detroit property is like that.
Rūpānuga: White elephant.
Prabhupāda: Nobody was taking, but it was quite suitable for us. And that is the finest property. You have seen it?
Rūpānuga: I have not been there. I have seen photographs.
Vṛṣākapi: I have seen it.
Prabhupāda: Is it not?
Vṛṣākapi: It is the finest, the finest.
Prabhupāda: And we have got very cheap. One room will cost three hundred thousand, it is so costly. They said they spend about two millions dollars fifty years ago.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So this is actually the first step of protein synthesis. In order to make proteins, this messenger RNA has to be transcribed from this DNA molecule. In the next step you'll see the final step for protein synthesis. Now there are also RNA's—they are called transfer RNA, those white-colored, white and yellow-colored things. (laughter) Each of them has to bring a specific amino acid, coded to a specific code, three base codes, base pair. Now each of them has to bring a specific amino acid and to put it together in a very specific manner. They cannot scramble. Because if it scrambles there's not going to be...
Prabhupāda: Again mistake, again mistake.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. So it cannot happen.
Prabhupāda: Just rightly. So much direction is there, perfect.
Rūpānuga: We were thinking that just like when you were in Moscow, some pictures were taken that were used for Back to Godhead, very good propaganda. We were thinking maybe when we go on this tour that in front of the White House maybe we could take a picture and use it in Back to Godhead in an article like that. It might be good propaganda.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you can do.
Rūpānuga: So we were thinking we would go there to the White House on the first part, then to Capitol, second part, then around to Lincoln Memorial, then Monument for fireworks ceremony.
Prabhupāda: I will go to the fireworks.
Prabhupāda: That is very simple. Spiritual understanding, that is, I was speaking... This is beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Spiritual understanding is that I am not this body. (to devotee) You move it this way. This is spiritual understanding. So long I am under this bodily concept of life, that "I am this body," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Christian," "I am white," "I am black" and so on, so on, these are all bodily concept of life. So long we keep ourself on this platform, then we are on the material platform. When we understand that "I am not this body..." That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Deha means this body, and dehī means the owner of the body. So unless we distinguish the owner of the body and the body, there is no spiritual knowledge. So long we identify with this body, that is material knowledge. And when we understand that "I am not this body, I am a spirit soul, I have been entrapped by this body," that is spiritual knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Then this is going on. They cannot do anything, and still they are drawing high salary. Especially when they say that life is made of chemicals and they cannot experimentally prove it. How bluffing it is. We say a simple thing, that "Don't talk of big, big life. You just produce from the egg, because egg you require so many chicken to cut their throat. So produce it from chemicals." Why do they not do it? Is anyone to answer this? If life is chemical combination, you see in the egg there is some white substance, some yellow substance, so you analyze and find out what are the chemicals and combine it and color it yellow and pack up in a cellulose cover, and then put it, bring life. Why they cannot do it? Where is the science? Simply talking big, big words? What do you think? Am I right or wrong?
Mr. Boyd: What do I think? Well, it's very difficult at this particular time. It hasn't been done yet; it's been claimed, as you say. Yet we as individuals request them to do that, for some reason.
Prabhupāda: Yes, unless they do that, what is the use? What is the use of your big, big talking?
Vipina: He's thinking that sometime they'll do it in the future.
Prabhupāda: Therefore he should not become scientist. The chicken is doing it within five days. (laughter) You transfer your doctorate, laureate to the chicken. You are cheating others. Give the title to the chicken.
Hari-śauri: It's the brownish one with the white, little white cabin-type thing on the top of it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're very lucky, we rented a garage one block away which can house four buses and twenty vans. Only one block away from it, its very unusual. Otherwise...
Prabhupāda: You have taken the whole garage?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, otherwise it's not possible to get parking space in New York. See the "Hare Kṛṣṇa" now, Prabhupāda, on the side of the building?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Hari-śauri: Very infamous? Prabhupāda: Yes, means notorious. They say that black men, they capture white women. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, I've seen it. When I was very young I saw it. I was playing in the park, because I lived next to Central Park, and this, these... We were playing with my friend and his sister, and this black man jumped and grabbed her and raped her right in Central Park. I was only about six years old. Prabhupāda: And what was the age of the girl? Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: About twelve. So I have personal experience. Especially in the upper part of this park, about Eighty, Ninetieth, Hundredth Street, there it's very dangerous. Where we are on Fifty-ninth street, it's not very dangerous. And on the east side down here it's not that dangerous. Prabhupāda: Just see these black men living in such a highly rich country, and civilized men, but their nature is not changed. Angara satatau tena(?), but they can be changed only in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. No other way. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā... (SB 2.4.18).
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now who is saving India?
Rāmeśvara: They say the "white man's burden." They came to make India civilized.
Hari-śauri: They showed us this...
Prabhupāda: Therefore all the śāstras, they bring it within Christian era. Before that, India was uncivilized. And if they accept all the Vedic literature, so exalted, then they have to accept Indian civilization. That is their propaganda. Simply propaganda, that's all.
Rāmeśvara: That's why you say Darwinism was started by the English...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: I came here in the evening, with umbrella and in the morning I saw the whole street is white.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: White-washed, you thought it was white-washed?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: From the snow.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He thought that someone had poured white wash.
Prabhupāda: When I first saw from the window that the street was all white, "How is that? One white-washed?" (laughter) Then when I saw in the street, "Oh!"
Prabhupāda: I saw in Kashmir, but that was not so white.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: From a distance?
Prabhupāda: No, on the street also, but not so white. That is ice, not snow.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh yes. Here it's snow.
Prabhupāda: This is Eighth Avenue?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No this is Central Park West. I used to live on this street. I was living here, Eighty-first Street and Columbus.
Prabhupāda: These are apartment buildings?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh yes, all residential. Very big, actually they are very first-class residential apartments. The ceilings are very high in every one of them, fifteen, twenty-foot ceilings. Nowadays the ceilings are usually only...
Prabhupāda: Ten feet.
Prabhupāda: She has cut hair and white dress, living alone in the temple. Vairagya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam (CC Madhya 6.254). This bhakti-yoga means vairagya-vidyā, means detachment. That is the perfection of life. If we remain attached, that is conditional. Māyā has made so many things attractive so that we have to remain attached, and to come out of this attachment is called bhakti. So one man, you can sit down, you can eat. Pradyumna, you can eat.
Prabhupāda: And on the house on bottom, there is river. Not directly, but an offshoot of river. People come, rowing. A very nice situation, and because it is black quarter, nobody was purchasing. So I said that "For us, what is black or white? Purchase it." So we got very cheap. At that time I paid them hundred and fifty thousand, and (indistinct). So we purchased.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, everything is comfortable. These stones are not available in India. Maybe very costly. Italian.
Bhagavān: This is from Portugal. The white is from Italy. They have put the different marbles together, very expert.
Prabhupāda: Combination.
Bhagavān: They have also made your Vyāsasana.
Prabhupāda: That one. So this side, marble is cheaper?
Bhagavān: Yes, it's very..., it's not expensive.
Prabhupāda: Oh. They have done very nice this furniture. We cannot expect this furniture in India. They may make, but it will be very costly. (coughs) You bring one spittoon.
Prabhupāda: In Bengal the, just like here, so many, black mixed up with white. In Bengal and Madras, so many Dravidian have been mixed up with the Āryan. Therefore in Bengal and Madras you'll find many black.
Hari-śauri: Dravidian?
Prabhupāda: Dravidian culture. Dravida. They are non-Āryans. Just like these Africans, they are not Āryans. Now they are mixing up with Europeans and Americans. In India, it was, one from the higher section, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, they will be fair complexion. Śūdras, black. So if a brāhmaṇa becomes black, then he's not accepted as brāhmaṇa. Kāla bahu (?). And if a śūdra becomes fair, then he's to be know that he's not pure śūdra. Although we do not take very, but, this brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, by birth, but still, we have seen, those who are coming purely from high caste family, their behavior and śūdras behavior is different. The family culture. And the spiritual culture lost, still, the family culture keeps them separate.
Hari-śauri: It's got different..., says menthol crystal, peppermint oil, eucalyptol oil, menthol salicilate, oil of lavender, chloroform BP, camphor powder, and white oil.
Prabhupāda: What is for?
Harikeśa: Supposed to be for massaging.
Hari-śauri: It's supposed to help the muscles.
Prabhupāda: And what is this?
Hari-śauri: Nutmeg oil. This is the one I was telling you about.
Prabhupāda: They're all selling all this?
Hari-śauri: No, this is not ours.
Yogeśvara: He finds it difficult to accept that the truth is something that you can put down in black and white. He seems to feel that it's more something you can realize through meditation.
Prabhupāda: How you'll realize? Unless you learn ABCD, how you can realize truth?
Translator: He's saying that we believe in the spiritual truth, but does that mean that our material truth does not exist?
Prabhupāda: It is conditional. Just like your body exists for a certain days only. But it is not eternal. But you, soul, you are eternal.
Prabhupāda: ...given to the modern scientist one proposal, egg proposal. You explain.
Hari-śauri: That if the scientist are so expert then they should be able to back up their claim of life coming from chemicals. Then why can't they produce an egg which will give life? They can take some chemicals and make the white, and take some little coloring to make it yellow inside, and wrap it up in some modern synthetic casing, and then put it in an incubator and let it produce life.
Prabhupāda: What is the difficulty? These rascals, it is proposed that life comes from chemicals. So take a small egg and analyze, find out the chemicals, same chemicals combine together, and bring life. Why? What is the answer? He's for the modern scientists. (laughter) He represents them.
Prabhupāda: The whites, they do not like the Negroes still. Wherever there are Negroes, in that quarter the whites do not go in. So is it not? They do not go. Although they have been given equal right, but at heart the whites, they do not like it. Is there any improvement? I don't think. Officially, "Yes, yes, you are good, I am good."
Nava-yauvana: Because people are still on the bodily conception of life, so they are...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the real disease. So long one is situated in the bodily concept of life, he is animal. First of all, you have to educate them. That is the difficulty.
Jñānagamya: But we are not Negroes. We are actually devotees and we are very attractive, and we have all good qualities, and people do not have to be afraid to come into our section of town. We will not kill them. That is why they are afraid of the Negroes. So we actually have good things to offer.
Prabhupāda: That is by your behavior, not by showing the film.
Prabhupāda: Kleśada āsa dehaḥ. Kleśada, as soon as you get a body, kleśada. May have good doctor friend, but I'll have to suffer. We can get some relief, but suffering is there. Therefore na sādhu manye. It is not good. So people are being trained up to become mad, pramattaḥ. And do anything, bring money. This is the modern civilization. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Things which are forbidden, they are doing that. Why? Indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti, only for sense gratification. They have no other ambition. Bring money and gratify senses. This is modern civilization. This is the exact explanation-nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Black money, white money, this money, that..., never mind, bring money.
Prabhupāda: Akhila-rasāmṛta, yes. Akhila-rasāmṛta-sindhu. So you can have all the rasas. That is the origin of bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. In bhakti, that rasa, you become in the ocean of rasa. You're hankering after rasas. There is a Vedic injunction, raso vai saḥ labdhvānandi ānandī.(?) One who has got the rasa, labdhvānandi, then he gets the real ānanda. That ānanda-cinmaya-rasa expansion is Kṛṣṇa's calves, cows, gopī friends, cowherd boy friends, Nanda, Yaśodāmāyi, so many. So to be Kṛṣṇa conscious means to participate with these rasas. It is not dry. It is not dry like, simply so 'ham, so'ham. So 'ham, they do not know the meaning. So 'ham means I belong to the same rasa. I also eligible to enjoy the same rasa. But Kṛṣṇa is... (break) ...and the calves, the cows are enjoying the rasa as predominated. Just like husband and wife, they are enjoying, both. But one is enjoying as the husband, predominator. The husband is forcefully dragging the wife. She's also... While she is dragged by force, she enjoys. That is another rasa. But there is rasa. Combined together it becomes rasa. Similarly Kṛṣṇa does not enjoy this material. This material rasa is the perverted reflection of that cinmaya-rasa. So we have to get ourselves nil of all these material rasas and we have to be situated in the cinmaya. Then our, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Then our life is perfect. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Rasa is there. Here perverted reflection. This perverted reflection... My Guru Mahārāja used to say to taste milk in white lime water. White lime water, it looks like milk. But it is not milk. It is different thing. Similarly, we are trying to taste the rasa of milk in lime water. Therefore we are baffled.
Prabhupāda: Once he gave me. Anyway, Kṛṣṇa is giving us encouragement. Religious, philosophical book, as soon as they hear of it they immediately say, "No, no, we..." That is the natural tendency.
Prabhā Viṣṇu: But here in India when they see that a white man has taken to the Vaiṣṇava religion...
Prabhupāda: That influences.
Prabhā Viṣṇu: ...they are so much respectful.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Naturally. That chief minister said.
Prabhupāda: But why this happened, this why question does not come. They are so dull. For that thing missing. And these rascal scientists will theorize, the blood becomes white, this becomes that, that becomes that. And do it. If the blood has become white then make it red. Mix some color or chemical and bring him to life. "No, the life-giving substance is lost." Oh, life-giving substance is not lost. So many germs are coming. Why do you say the life-giving substance is lost? It is there. They do not consider all these things. If matter is life-giving substance, matter is there. Decomposed matter is also matter. Just like stool, a decomposed remnants of foodstuff. That is also matter. Stool is also matter. The same (indistinct) is there. The earth is there, the water is there, the heat is there. What is the loss there? And actually you see from this matter, from the stool so many worms are coming out. How do you say that the life-giving matter is missing? That you cannot explain. Still they will not accept that the soul is gone. That individual soul is gone. This is their intelligence. Give me that stamp.
Prabhupāda: And this is the only platform where real United Nations can be made. That is practical. That is practical. That United Nation has failed. If this Indian culture... I have given this philosophy to the American students. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. That a lame man and a blind man, separately, both of them are useless. But when they combine together, the lame man is taken on the shoulder of the blind man, and the lame man has got eyes but he has no legs. He gives direction and the blind man goes. So the, at the present moment I am trying to spread this movement all over the world. But we have no means. So let America supply the money, and let them take our direction for the culture. That will be United Nation. And actually it will become. How they are dancing, black, white, Indian, American, European, in Ratha-yātrā? There is no politics. It is out of really spiritual ecstasy.
Prabhupāda: That means he's not pure brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa cannot be black. Just like a European, if he becomes black, that means he has mixture. European and American, if he's black, that means mixture. So brāhmaṇa family, how it has... Still, family, it must be very fair. Śukla. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya family must be very beautiful. If he's pure. Kāla brāhmaṇa prakāśa śūdra (Bengali) beki poṣya-putro pasaraila.(?) It is a slang language. Kāla brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa should not be black and śūdra should not be white. And a Musselman should not be dwarf. Because formerly real Musselmen were coming from Kabul, Afghanistan. That is called (indistinct). If a Muslim is dwarf that means he is not real. (Bengali) Prostitute's son, and poṣya-putra, adopted son. They are all of the same class. How this selection? Black brāhmaṇa, white śūdra, dwarf Musselman, and prostitute's son, and adopted son. Adopted son, he gets money without any earning and spends like... I have seen so many adopted sons.
Harikeśa: That same person from last night, the one wearing white?
Prabhupāda: Ah. So the three men cannot live there?
Harikeśa: No.
Prabhupāda: Why?
Harikeśa: It's too small.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Not so. First of all, give them, then we shall see later on. Why immediately want facilities? Or he can, the other man can go with the brahmacārīs.
Harikeśa: The younger one.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Yes, somebody may go to the brahmacārīs. Just now make them accommodated there, then we shall see what to do. That "First of all you stay here, then we shall see what is convenient to you then."
That is Kṛṣṇa conscious movement. We are giving equal chance everyone. It doesn't matter what he is. Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. Pāpa-yoni means low class, poor, uneducated, ugly, no education. That is pāpa-yoni. So they can be raised. Kṛṣṇa says. How? Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya. If he is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore it is the topmost welfare activities in the human society. Anyone can be raised. There are different grades of life all over the world. Some are black, some are white, some are ugly, some are poor. Varieties. Some are trees, some are plants, some are aquatics, some are birds, beasts, insects. Different varieties of life, 8,400,000. Some of them demigods, Brahmā, Indra, Candra. Very, very powerful. Just like this sun, that is also a planet, and the chief person is the sun-god Vivasvān. We get all this information. There is. These rascals, they do not know what are these planets, what are the arrangement. They are exactly like this planet. Just like here also, we have got president. It is expected, one president or one king in one planet.
Prabhupāda: Brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) means first of all you understand your identity. You are now identifying yourself as Indian, or as brāhmaṇa, or as kṣatriya, or white, or black, and so many things.
Indian man (4): My first identification is my own body.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is ajñāna. So long you are identifying with the body, you are no better than the animal. So we are doing that. We are fighting. "I am Indian. You are Englishman. You are this. You are that. You are..." Simply we are fighting, like cats and dogs, they fight. So that is ajñāna. How you can be prasannātmā? So when one becomes actually situated in spiritual life, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). That is the... In this way when you make further progress, when you actually understand that you are eternal servant of God, then you surrender. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). This situation takes many, many births to cultivate. And when he actually understands, jñānavān—not fools, rascals—then māṁ prapadyate, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). That mahātmā is very rare to be found. So bhakti is not so easy. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. It is not so easy. It takes many, many births to come to the understanding that vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ bhajanty ananya manasaḥ (BG 9.13). This is mahātmā.
Devotee: Now he looks like dirty. You know, like brown. The dhotī's not white. It's like brownish.
Prabhupāda: He harassed. "He has not increased my..." Hearing and hearing, he wants to go. So why not, if he found some real disciplic succession, some bābājī, why he did not remain there? He is criticizing that our is not in the proper succession. So why he did not remain where he found the proper succession? Why he's sometimes in Vṛndāvana, sometimes Delhi, sometimes here. Why he is loitering? Crazy. Unfortunate. Unnecessarily picking out some trouble.
Prabhupāda: Something he must take, he will read, understand our philosophy. (break) ...Carter is good.
Surabhi: Yes, I got a letter from Dharmādhyakṣa in Surat two months ago. He was invited to the White House after our... He had an exhibition at Vancouver, that habitat. So it was a world conference of solution to life, living. So he was invited. He met some of the officials there. He was invited to Washington, but he had to wait for Carter to become the President because then it would be fifty percent more favorable because they had a relationship. There these people... Then he said there's a great chance they will help us in India. So he is going to go there and speak with the...
Prabhupāda: In India.
Surabhi: No, Washington, D.C. That's in America. They invited one of our devotees there to discuss this Māyāpur and all this social type of... Dharmādhyakṣa. He's writing for that Back to Godhead magazine. He worked with Gurudāsa together.
Prabhupāda: His article, one is there?
Hari-śauri: Yes, "Simple Living High Thinking." You saw that.
Prabhupāda: So he met him.
So their theory is not without background. There is a background philosophy. And for Western countries, this is a completely new idea. Therefore they are charging, "brainwash." They are not to be blamed because they are, I mean to say, raised in that ideas. Hm? Is it not? Yes. "So this is simply brainwash movement. It has no factual standing." Even our country, what to speak of Western countries. Where the spiritual civilization has a strong background, they are also not believing. Nobody believes Kṛṣṇa is God. Even big, big leaders, what to speak of ordinary men. Especially the so-called educated men. "Bring money anyhow and enjoy life." Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). And for money they are doing everything. Black money, white money, yellow money, this money. (laughs) "Bring money and enjoy. Bas. This is life. Why this nonsense Kṛṣṇa consciousness? No this, no this, no this. Ninety-nine per cent no and one per cent yes. What is the value of this movement?" Is it not? Our life is ninety-nine per cent no. No air even. (laughter) So what to speak of other thing. It is very difficult. Therefore in the beginning I was hopeless, that "Who will hear this movement? Simply no." And especially in this country, in Europe. So dull brain.
Prabhupāda: Blind person, he should hear. He should hear.
Indian man: But a blind person wants to see. What is milk, it will be complicated if we keep on teaching him it is white or something like that. We have to give eyes. And then he can see.
Prabhupāda: Therefore eyes... What do you give? What you mean by giving eyes? Knowledge.
Indian man: Knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Now where you get the knowledge?
Indian man: From the learned one.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So who can be learned more than Kṛṣṇa?
Indian man: To be honest about this whole thing as for memory level goes, I have forgotten the Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. By the virtue of coming in contact with you realized people, we can also understand. Otherwise it's the gospel truth, written in scripture, holy men say we accept it. It's not our experience.
Prabhupāda: No, it's not experience. Then there is no. If you do not accept one authority, then there is no answer of your question.
Prabhupāda: You'll advise, but you'll never do it. That is going on. (break) ...elephants dance, and we see. This is Indian policy. These white elephants, they'll come and dance, and you'll see. And you are busy with your daughter's marriage. That's all. (break) ...means vairāgya-vidyā. Vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yoga (CC Madhya 6.254). Nobody can become a bhakta unless he has disgusted with material life. "I shall do this, I shall do that." And he'll never do bhakti-yoga. That's all. This is not possible. (break) Before leaving my family life I wanted to get my all sons and daughters married, but some of them disagreed, some of them... My wife disagreed. Let them go to hell, I don't care. Time is up. Never mind you are married or not married. Then see your own business. (break) I or you, then who will take care of the marriage of your daughter? Suppose you die immediately? Then who will take care?
Guest (1): God will give them...
Prabhupāda: Then why don't you do that now? God will take care. It is called, my Guru Mahārāja used to say, "civil suicide." Civil suicide. Just like if you commit suicide, that is criminal. But this is voluntarily committing suicide. Now I am dead. Whatever you like, you do. So we have to commit civil suicide if we are actually attached to Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-dharmān parityajya... (BG 18.66). That is gṛha-dharma. But Kṛṣṇa says, "Give up that." But that attachment is there. I do not think... Suppose I die immediately. Who will take care of my daughter? At that time we say "God."
Dr. Patel: There is no question why. We'll understand it.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that's all right. So the visa problem is a great problem for us because in India for conducting our movement, we have to import the white men. Our Indians, they are not joining. So that is a great problem for me. They have to come, and they have to go again. And each time, coming and going, ten thousand rupees. And that is happening at least for hundred cases every year. Ten thousand, hundred times. Just imagine. This is my economic problem. Therefore I'm asking, "If you are Englishman, please stay." Because here, in India, they will see that "The white man dancing, let us see." They will never join. They are busy with their own affairs. They will advise, "Do this, do that," but they will never come. This is my position. Practical. Therefore I'm begging the Englishmen, the Canadians, the Australians, "Please come and stay." Because huge establishment, who will manage? I am managing with them, but there is economic question. For each person I have to spend ten thousand rupees at least and such hundred case... This is the position. The Indians are not interested. They are not interested.
Prabhupāda: Then let them come first of all. (laughter) There is no "if." There is sufficient place. Come. But nobody's coming. They want to see, "Let these white men come and we see." That's all. "We see the fun." This is going on. They are coming. They are disgusted. But we are not disgusted. That is the difficulty. Therefore I was speaking to this boy, "You are Englishman, you have come." It's a problem now in Māyāpur, here. And the government is after them as soon as three months pass. "Get out, get out, get out, get out." Then how shall I conduct my business? A big, big establishment. This is another problem. But Kṛṣṇa is doing His own business. But practically seeing. This is India's business. Bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41). Manuṣya-janma, not the cats and dogs, but those who have taken the human form. It is their business. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41), janma sārthaka-First of all, make your life successful by understanding the philosophy. Then, janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra, preach this philosophy all over the world. That is para-upakāra. So actually that is being done. They understand, they are understanding this philosophy. There is struggle now in foreign countries. There is opposition now.
Hari-śauri: Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the only thing that encompasses everything.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is false idea that by language, linguistic unity there will be... There are so many different examples. Pakistan, they speak Hindi also. Yes, they speak Hindi. And why there is separation? Bangladesh, they speak Bengali. Why they are separated from West Bengal? The linguistic unity is not... Any material platform, there cannot be unity. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). (break)
Hari-śauri: It's the white one. It's on my bed. (break)
Devotee: Hari-śauri is asking if you can take... (break)
Jagadīśa: Well, that doesn't mean I can. (break)
Indian lady: In our schools and college...
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) She'll understand Bengali. (Bengali) That explains. (Bengali)
Indian lady: Why don't they teach this in our schools and colleges?
Prabhupāda: Because they won't take it. They'll take this unauthorized interpretation.
Hari-śauri: Whites and blacks.
Prabhupāda: That is inevitable. The whites cannot...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Rhodesia has rejected...
Prabhupāda: ...cannot kill them, repress any more. That is not possible. The other blacks will join.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And it appears that even President Carter of America is more soft on the blacks now. He is more sympathetic. So if they get American support...
Prabhupāda: Nowadays you cannot be a suppressor of any particular foreigner. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Everyone will throw a stone. Very tortuous death, stoning.
Hari-śauri: I remember my auntie's mother. She was Italian, and she used to wear black all the time. Just like the widows here, they wear white, so she was wearing black. She was a widow. So all the widows, even I saw some young women...
Prabhupāda: Here also, in Gujarat, they wear black, black sari.
Hari-śauri: Yes, right. And they wear black, and they don't dress attractively at all, and there's no question of marrying again.
Prabhupāda: And Russia also, respectable widows, they used to live in widow's home. They would never marry.
Prabhupāda: Washington.
Dr. Patel: Washington and people like Jefferson. He has polluted that seat. They must change that seat. Change the White House wholesale. The greatest curr on this most, I mean, enlightened people. Americans are very enlightened because their forefathers were enlightened and they came there as pilgrims. Those, what do they call them? Puritans, you see. They are most different from Aussies. The Australians who are criminals of England.
Prabhupāda: If Nixon is a Jew?
Dr. Patel: No, no. He's a Christian. No Jew can be, serve as the president of that country. Not only Jew but not only Catholic.
Trivikrama: Well, some Catholics. Kennedy was...
Dr. Patel: Only Kennedy was the first Catholic to be. Otherwise till Kennedy came, there was no Catholic ever elected. (break) Methodist. Even in material world, he was a fool the way he carried out... (laughing) But sir, one thing: about the freedom of America. I have my hat off that that man could be knocked off by ordinary paper reporter. That would not happen in any other country.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I asked to take the government.
Prabhupāda: Crows will never come to a nice place. They'll go to the filthy place, where everything rubbish is thrown out. The crow will take advantage of it: "Oh, here is enjoyable thing." Tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham. So we have been educated to become vāyasa, crows, useless black bird. There are other birds also, but these... Amongst the birds, these crows are most disliked by everyone. So our present literature and taste of literature is like that, crows. "Ka, ka, ka, ka." Even amongst the birds, they'll find swan, white swan. And they're black crows. Nature's division is so nice. Na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo pragṛṇīta karhicit tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham uśanti mānasā (SB 1.5.10). That is rejected by the mānasā. Mānasā means the birds who live in the māna-sarovara, just like ducks and swans.
Prabhupāda: So you consult amongst yourselves, but people may not have a bad impression.
Gurudāsa: I think I will not do it because if you think there's any small chance of them associating with us...
Prabhupāda: Alpa-chidre. A small... White, white cloth and a small black spot, it becomes prominent.
Gurudāsa: So we won't do it. We can try and preach to them at other place. Because we're going out on saṅkīrtana many times. We're getting a list of all the other programs in the Mela, so we'll take our saṅkīrtana parties where it's going to be prominent and pass out literature. Now, for the meeting, for the resolution, I thought perhaps on the 16th or the 17th, because it is close to the big bathing day on the 14th and it won't conflict that much with other programs.
Prabhupāda: Meeting means all other sādhus, they will meet?
Gurudāsa: Yes. I'm getting invitations printed up, and then we can write their names in, and I want to make the invitation something personal, like "This is a meeting of utmost importance."
Prabhupāda: So that, some Swami Chand?
Hari-śauri: Chandra Swami, minister for Air India. He's supposed to be wanting to see Prabhupāda. He's coming to the Mela.
Prabhupāda: And her controlling this younger generation. That is another point of...
Dr. Patel: They're putting black man without any penny in his pocket, like that.
Prabhupāda: In 1971 many papers astonished how one Indian is controlling so many white men. There, our paper became surprised. They cannot control even one white man.
Dr. Patel: This type of mental, sort of makeup, has been created after the industrial revolution, because...
Prabhupāda: These German people have accused that "The old man is sitting in Los Angeles and he has engaged all these young boys and getting money from them." The German propaganda. They're thinking that way, that I have some mind control power, I engaged these young men and they're getting money and I am enjoying.
Trivikrama: Everyone judges others from their own standard.
Prabhupāda: They're surprised, the neighboring people around our temple, "How do you live so comfortably? You have got so many cars and so nice house." But they are working hard like hogs and dogs and we are getting money without doing anything. They are envious.
Prabhupāda: They can't. That, this nonsense speaking, is going on throughout the history, but they'll never be able. That is the fact. "We are trying. We shall do in future"—these things are going on. But this is all stories. We don't believe in these nonsense things. They'll never be happy. That is not possible. Therefore I challenged your technology that "Where is that department? Do it!" First of all do it. Suppose if a man is in business. He may say that "I am trying to become a millionaire." But he cannot say that "I am millionaire." So the so-called scientist, "Yes, we are trying." You are trying, that's all right. But when you become, then you call scientist. There is no possibility, and because you are trying I have to accept you are scientist? Recently in California University one professor came. He has gained the Nobel Prize, Chemical Evolution. They are trying to prove that life is generated by chemical evolution. So in that meeting I had my one student. He's Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara. He's also big chemist. So he knows. He talks with me. He has got the idea. He has written one book, Scientific Basis of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. So he challenged that "Suppose if I give you the chemicals, can you produce life?" The answer—"That I cannot say." Why he talks nonsense? He is theorizing that life is made of chemicals, but if you give the chemicals, why you cannot make life? When I was in South Africa... Where is that? Pretoria or something? There are many factories for chicken killing. Chicken incubator. So one of the students, worker there, I said, "Suppose this is a chicken factory. So take one egg and analyze the chemicals. There is some white substance, yellow substance. It is covered with some cell. You can do it, and put that in the incubator and get a chicken. Why don't you do that?" The rascal could not answer. "Don't talk of big, big life. Make a chicken." And this rascal cannot do that, and still, they'll talk big, big words. What do you think? Are they not rascals? These rascals they are talking big, big words. First of all prove. Make one egg. Then talk of big, big brain. Make one egg. It is... Everyone can see. There is some white chemicals and some yellow chemicals, and it is covered, and it... You analyze and combine the chemical in the same way and put it in the incubator and get one chicken. Why? You are technologist. Say why they cannot do it.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: These covers I did in Bombay. These are books from the other covers. They came out very good. Ādi-rasa was telling me, in a week we'll also do the black and white in Bombay, because the quality is going to be better.
Prabhupāda: You make expert, on quality expert.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We are doing all the Gujarati covers in Bombay now, and I wrote to Jayapataka. We can even do the Bengali printing here.
Prabhupāda: In India, Bombay is best. There are many offset printing houses.
Prabhupāda: This is civilization, that running, congested, hanging on. These rascals...
Rāmeśvara: Their famous phrase was "The white man's burden."
Prabhupāda: Unless they made such propaganda, how they could stay? They must give some plea that "I am staying for their benefit." That was the propaganda all through. And any Indian who would agree to say in the League of Nations and when there is conference, "Yes, we are so much benefited," he would be made secretary, governor. The flatterer, he would be made governor.
Prabhupāda: (aside:) That child...? So that separation... Crows will not like to live with the ducks and white swans. And white swans will not like to live with the crows. That is natural division. "Birds of the same feather flock together."
Jagadīśa: And honest men don't like to associate with thieves and criminals.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is natural. We are not interested even with these daily newspapers. We are interested Bhagavad-gītā. We don't keep any news. We know the dogs are barking. That's all. But that does not mean we have to mix with the dogs.
Prabhupāda: They... They...
Rāmeśvara: Very fat, white beard. Christians got very angry. They think that Santa Claus is Christian, so we are impersonating to take advantage. But we were arguing that "This Santa Claus is not Christian or Jewish. He is devotee of God." Originally Santa Claus is a saint, Saint Nicholas. So we were arguing, "How can you claim exclusive property of Christian? He is a servant of God. You are using this Santa Claus..."
Prabhupāda: Even Americans use also.
Prabhupāda: You take average, thirty times more. Cloth, you could purchase very nice cloth, one rupees six annas. Now that is thirty rupees. So in this way proportionately, average thirty times, everything. Everything has increased thirty times. So I am speaking when we were child, say eight years—seven years, eight years old—or up to ten years. So I am now eighty-one. Seventy years ago and now, the difference is thirty times. We were purchasing milk, two annas per seer, and now it is three rupees per kilo. That is also, we do not know whether it is milk or some white water.
Hari-śauri: In most cases it's white water.
Prabhupāda: And we were purchasing real milk (indistinct). So nice.
Rāmeśvara: So they may say this philosophy, that's like the communism, capitalism, Russia, America. The business of exploiting the masses is the same, they'll say. Different names, different dress, but the main business is going on.
Prabhupāda: Expert. Nobody is thinking (indistinct) "Everyone will be happy." That we are thinking because we are devotees. Otherwise what is the use of my going to America? So America is not in need of me, but I found there is need of me. So they are thinking, "This man has come to wash our brains." And I think that "Yes, we are going to do work (indistinct) they will be happy."
Hari-śauri: Like in Hyderabad. There's those very big Deities there, five feet or something.
Prabhupāda: Five feet? Deity we can get it done here also. But there is no white stone. Stone is available here.
Gargamuni: Yes, stone they have, but no marble.
Prabhupāda: Anything made of iron corrodes.
Gargamuni: Iron. Yes. We have to be very careful of the type materials that we use. Also near the sea, I think on cement that has some effect. We'd have to make the temple out of stone or marble.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gargamuni: White marble.
Rāmeśvara: Whew! That's expensive.
Hari-śauri: Stone is not so bad.
Rāmeśvara: If you have stone and cover it with marble.
Gargamuni: Well, it depends what type of stone. They have that red stone in Rajasthan, like in Vṛndāvana. You've seen that red stone? Very nice. They're using that in... I saw a big hotel in Bombay. They have used that stone, very beautiful, that red stone that you see in Vṛndāvana.
Prabhupāda: Red stone. That is very durable.
Prabhupāda: They come to us.
Rāmeśvara: Yes. They come to us. "Whites and nonwhites attend with equal frequency." Not that the white people are more religious; black people are less. "People with a college background are more likely to go to church regularly than those who never went to college, but people who never went..." In other words, they're saying if you went to high school but you did not go to college, the chances are you will not go to church as much as if you went to college. But if people went to grade school and then they left without going to high school or without going to college... That means they left at, say, fifteen years old. Then they have the best chance for going to church. That means the less education you are given in America, the more religious.
Prabhupāda: That is everywhere.
Prabhupāda: But when there is warning of death, why do you fly? You have to die, but when there is warning of death, why you fly? (laughter) Rascal, why you fly? That means you do not want to die. You give this slogan, that "When there is warning of death, why do you fly? You have to die." (laughter) It is a rascal civilization, that's all. Western civilization is a rascal civilization. I do not take they are civilized even. No. White aborigines. That's all. (break) Mahāprabhu says, janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra. In other countries there is no civilization. In India there is civilization. Just you become civilized and distribute this knowledge.
This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that para upakara. They do not know what is civilization. Such broader idea of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He never said that "Sit down in Vṛndāvana and become a bābājī." Kara para upakara. That is saṅkīrtana.
Prabhupāda: ...perception. That is experience. Why do you give on seeing only? By seeing one mango you cannot understand what quality it is, but you have to touch with your tongue. Therefore in chemical laboratory the characteristics are there: "This is the color. This is the taste. This is the reaction." So you have to gather experience like that, not by simply seeing. That... I gave the example. Now you take one egg. What is there? Some white and some yellow substance. So you make one egg with white and yellow and bring life. So what is the power of your seeing? A small egg. Take a small egg. The covering, some celluloid, within, some white substance, some yellow substance. Or make further analysis and give some chemicals of the same taste, same color, same characteristic—now bring life. But the same thing. You put under the feather of the chicken. Within five days it will bring life. So what is the credit of these rascal doctors, D.H.C.? That a small chicken is better than these D.H.C. Why don't you see practically?
Gargamuni: The chicken is simply sitting, and he is...
Prabhupāda: He is bringing life. What is the answer of these rascal scientists?
Satsvarūpa: No good answer. Bluff.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Pṛthu-putra: Because I went to some universities. They have big, big universities in Cairo and in every places in North Africa, because now they try to be educated. The white Africans, they have some intelligence to understand to a certain extent philosophy, because when I was talking about the Bhagavad-gītā, when I showed the table of contents, they more or less agreed to take interest in it because they didn't see anything specific about another religion, another God. They were seeing the titles like "Confidential Knowledge," "Transcendental Knowledge," "Karma-yoga," "Jñāna-yoga." They are very interested about knowing these things.
Prabhupāda: That is good the first, beginning, let them come. Let them sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and take prasāda. In Iran we are doing that. Gradually it is becoming interesting. You had been in our Iran, Tehran?
Pṛthu-putra: I went there also some time, long time ago. But Iran is a different concept. They're not so strict about following the Koran. For example, these Arabic countries like Algeria, Libya, Egypt, and Tunisia, they don't recognize Iran like being part of them. Iran and Turkey and Afghanistan they think is another Muslim world. For example, in Iran there is much more Sufis, the different... But in these Arabic countries like Egypt, they're really conservative. They're very strict.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Conservative means fanatical.
Prabhupāda: That is... Therefore he's budhāḥ. Iti matvā. When he understands that there is a big scientist who has made all these things, iti matvā, he understands that. Iti matvā bhajante māṁ budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ. "Oh, my great scientist is Kṛṣṇa." And dṛḍha-vratāḥ. "Oh, here is the scientist. Why shall I go to the rascal scientist? Simply jugglery of words." They cannot make even an egg, and they are promising life, and we come from chemicals. They cannot study even the what contents of the egg, what is the con... We can see in our naked eyes. There is some white substance, yellow substance, covered. You do it. You are claiming chemical. You cannot study even the chemicals from the egg. Hm? What do you think, scientist? Do you know what is the chemical?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So why don't you make another egg with the chemicals and bring life?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: In principle they can make all chemicals in the egg.
Prabhupāda: No, no, they can make, but...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they don't make life.
Prabhupāda: If you see... You can do everything, but at the end it is failure.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...and these physicists and biologists. We are thinking how to do it.
Prabhupāda: No, here is argument. Here is... A plant is coming. So yoni... The source of birth is called yoni. So yoni is there, the earth. But who begotten this? There must be father. Because we, our experience, without father and mother there is no generation. You prove that, that here is the mother; there is the child. And where is the father? And the father says, "Yes, I am father." Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). Bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām. That's all. There must be father. "You do not see." This is not logic. There must be father. So there must be God; otherwise how they are coming? By whose arrangement? Now, the exact fruit and flower will come from this. You bring another tree. Not it will resemble like. Varieties of life. You cannot say it is accident. Huh? Why not accident—the red flower comes here and the white flower comes there? Accident? They're standing for years. Why there is not a single accident? And accident. You say, "accident."
Prabhupāda: Either educate them or control them. Give them facility of education. But there is no education at all. Even for the whites there is no education. So we are stressing on the point of education. You educate certain section as brāhmaṇa, certain section as kṣatriya, certain section as vaiśya. In that education we don't discriminate because he's coming of a śūdra family. Take education. Be qualified. Then you talk. Not by votes.
Prabhupāda: No, she is very nice woman. From the beginning she is devotee. She is about fifty years old? Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, at least fifty years old. Yes, her hair is gray.
Brahmānanda: She wears all white sari. Other women that age, they would be looking for another husband, another husband, another husband.
Prabhupāda: This widow life is also brahmacārī life. This printing is all right? At least for India it is very good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The paper quality I saw that Gopāla is using now is getting much better.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. South Af... He had no practice here. One attorney, he told me in Bombay that "Your Gandhi was waiting for cases here, sitting in this chair." He was not even successful lawyer. Then he got a case in Africa. He thought it wise, "Let me go there." And there, instead of becoming a lawyer, he became a political agitator. So to take equal status for the Indians he fought there. And that was failure. Still it is going on. They are very determined not to give any advantage to anyone except these whites.
Hari-śauri: They know as soon as they give little leeway, then their whole government will be finished.
Prabhupāda: Very strict. Still, they purchase my books.
Brahmānanda: The whites.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: They were... I think the first time you went there they even were bowing down...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: ...in the airport. And this caused big sensation, because never, even when big Indian gurus have come to South Africa, never have any whites bowed down. It was the first time whites bowed down to...
Prabhupāda: They clapped. After hearing me they clapped. They purchased books. Now they are selling books. So I think my books are more important. We shall give more concentration for pushing on and publishing. What do you think?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: You are. You are. You have selected your own dress.
Guest (2): The owner?
Prabhupāda: Just like you are in white dress and he is in brown dress. That is your selection. You like this white dress; he likes that brown dress. So for the dress, you are responsible. That is you.
Guest (2): Who is "you"?
Prabhupāda: You are... Therefore you do not know who you are.
Guest (2): That is what I am asking.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And in no case... The girl must not be older than the boy. That's not good at all.
Rādhā-vallabha: At the time of the agreement, when they are not yet old enough, they do not associate at all. So not until the actual marriage do they associate or wear white or anything like that.
Prabhupāda: No, even they can be married, but no association.
Prabhupāda: That was also from France.
Hari-śauri: You've seen the blue onionskin. This is white.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have now blue and white. Bhagavān brought me the rest of it, brought the rest of it here, lot of it. It's very high class with gold letters. Really nice.
Hari-śauri: Envelopes too?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Envelopes also. The whole thing. It's good because we're running short. You want me to start using that new type of letterhead that Bhagavān has brought? Should I start using it?
Prabhupāda: Nei, so long you have got old stock, finish.
Prabhupāda: I say to the scientists (indistinct) who as they say, life comes from chemicals. And I say that take some small egg. You can see, there are some substances like yellow substance and white substance. Analyze the chemicals and combine them and put in the incubator. You get one chicken. Why the rascals cannot do it? And still, they say that life comes from chemicals. What is the answer?
Devotee: They say it is too complicated.
Gargamuni: I was trying to point out that it is common to set up some avatāra, some man as avatāra. They also called us Gaura-Nitāi in Bangladesh, myself and Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa, because they never saw white sādhus before in their lives. And because of our light complexion, they referred us to as Gaura-Nitāi.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So ask Upendra to come. Let him be trained up.
Bhavānanda: Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha is going to put some of your lectures in English script Bengali so I can give lectures. Is that all right?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. They will be very eager to hear from you Bengali. Yes. Now Kṛṣṇa is giving us so much opportunities. Utilize it. And be steady in your character, in your behavior, in our regulative principles. Then the spiritual strength will be there, and it will be... There is no doubt. Kṛṣṇa-śakti vinā nahe nāma-pracāra. You must draw the spiritual substance. That is unlimited. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam (BG 10.10). Immediately. He can make everything possible.
Prabhupāda: In Manipur also there is rain.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, rained so much. But anyway, the rain stopped in the last few days, so I made a few shows in the village. So they didn't even have electricity, so they hired this generator, and then I showed the white screen, and all the villages, nineteen villages, they came in no time. So I had about nine hundred, nine hundred in two shows. And they wanted to see more, the movies. And then they very appreciated. They wanted to join.
Prabhupāda: So let them join.
Prabhupāda: Melbourne and Sydney, white.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I knew it was Australia.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's about 6:30 now, Śrīla Prabhupāda
Prabhupāda: Have saṅkīrtana.
Guest (1): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi)
Guest (1): You have got a copy?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have the original, not a copy.
Prabhupāda: You can give him.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Some... We have another one. It has 108 petals exactly. It's white when full bloomed. Just started, this monsoon. The full season will come sometime in August, August and September. Lotus are everywhere, these flowers, on either side of the road, and all lakes full of lotuses.
Prabhupāda: Pineapple, your country is famous for pineapple.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Pineapple is very sweet. This is another season, but in about three weeks the larger variety will come. This is a little smaller type. The bigger ones, big. And it is green outside, but it's very sweet, full of juice. The hillsides all covered with pineapples, and it's very cheap.
Prabhupāda: So Calcutta, there was rain.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But I just wanted to ask a question. Then I'll have it clarified. When I was at a Birla temple in Bhopal, what they did is... Supposing someone comes here at four o'clock in the afternoon, five o'clock. Now there's no prasādam distributed at that time, but at that time the pūjārī could give a little of those white sweet.
Śatadhanya: With a tulasī in it.
Prabhupāda: That is formality.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's not genuine. Yeah, it wasn't very nice.
Prabhupāda: Cheating. That is cheating.
Prabhupāda: Public will see how we can unite white and black by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That will be very good result.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lot of black people follow her. All of her followers are black people.
Prabhupāda: Introduce this Ratha-yātrā in every city. Great festival will attract people. When we first..., first or second year, Upendra was dancing like anything. (laughs) You remember?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was the second year. Around the tree he would dance.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Do you remember that?
Upendra: Yes, Prabhupāda. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Maddened with gladness. You were sitting by my side. That was very nice.
Prabhupāda: That's all. And one tin box. (laughs) Give up this mistaken idea that "If we get some large sum of money from our father, then we shall be happy." That is not... That is wrong idea. Happiness depends on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You can take advantage from your father that you may not live uncomfortably. That's all, that much. That I am making sufficient arrangement. In your present position you'll never be disturbed. Now try to become happy by advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is required.
Pramattaḥ. These persons are mad, pramattaḥ. Prakṛṣṭa-rūpeṇa mattaḥ. Mattaḥ means mad, and pra means still more, more than mad. Kurute vikarma. They are engaged in so many nefarious activities—black market, white market, stealing, burglaring, so on, so on. Vikarma. Idam adya mayā labdham idaṁ prāpsye punar dhanam. This is asuric thing. If one can squander away crores of rupees like Harendra Singh... Suppose if I give you each one lakh of rupees, how long it will take? You can squander away in one day. Take some regular income. Be comfortably situated. Advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Bas. That is happiness. In your whole life you'll never be disturbed for economic condition. That I am arranging. That's all. That "I am suffering for money." No. It will regularly. Is not that scheme? So what is next Mukherjee? Hyderabad (Hindi) It will be great service to Kṛṣṇa.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Big window, picture window looking out to your garden. That Florida property is wonderful. Very, very good property in Florida. They call it New Naimiṣāraṇya. They have about ten peacocks flying free, wild peacocks. They trained them. First them put them in a cage and keep them on the ground and feed them. Then, after they get accustomed to it, then they let them loose. They have some all-white color peacocks, special, and then many colorful peacocks.
Prabhupāda: There are no fox.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So he offered everything he has to Prabhupāda. So Śrīla Prabhupāda has requested him to build a large building and put in a Vedic planetarium in Washington, D.C., capital of the United States, right near the White House, with the Vedic planetary system according to the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Fifth Canto. So he has agreed to do this, and now they are choosing the property where they will develop this program right in the heart of Washington, D.C. So it will be very good. And also the dolls will be... Doll exhibit.
Prabhupāda: How they are making dolls, show him. How nice dolls.
Dr. Kapoor: Oh.
Prabhupāda: I brought them here and kept them in Māyāpur.
Dr. Kapoor: Ācchā, and they got the training there.
Prabhupāda: And they have learned now. Now they are making better dolls than the Krishnanagar potters. They are very intelligent. The intelligence was not properly used. Now they have got chance. In Bhāgavata it is said, sarasvatī jñāna-khale yathā satī. This knowledge, why it should be locked up amongst the jñāna-khala? In India this knowledge is available, and they should be packed up amongst themselves? Now it is the time to distribute.
Prabhupāda: Oh, this is made of..., the outer portion is made of candle? No.
Śrutakīrti: Yes, all wax. Most of it is all just plain white wax, and then you have different color waxes, tanks of different colors so you'll dip it in one tank. You have to do that several times. And then they just get a knife and slit on different angles and twist it.
Prabhupāda: Something artistic, wonderful.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's really attractive. Gurukṛpā Mahārāja was telling me that the people, not just young people, but people of all ages are attracted to buying such a nice-looking thing. Even an old grandmother would be proud to have such a candle, not just young people. All ages, all types.
Prabhupāda: Get a new life all around. No depression, no hopelessness. Is it not? American boys and girls, they became so much depressed out of hopelessness. Now here is a life, future. Your latest Back to Godhead is very nice.
Prabhupāda: Do it very nicely. (break) ...unique testament.
Kīrtanānanda: All of this detail work, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is being done in gold leaf on white background. This is all marble. This is the main temple room and kīrtana hall. The columns are being covered with marble cut in patterns like this.
Prabhupāda: It will be a very... What is called? Attractive spot? What is called? It will be tourist?
Kīrtanānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, things are going nice-slow but sure. You have got this Persian civilization and he has got the African civilization. (laughter) Black and white.
Bhakti-caru: Śrīla Prabhupāda? (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) (break) ...coming with the report of Persia and...
Hari-śauri: He's saying he's very much pleased when you gave the report of Persia.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: You should come and visit us, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: I am ready to go immediately.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya. You will come, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There are millions of people waiting for you.
Prabhupāda: And now you have to take a bundle of bones. That is the difficulty. There is nothing... Bundle of bone.
Hari-śauri: And the Indians there were very, very appreciative that the Western, white brāhmaṇas had done the installation. They were telling Vāsudeva that "Now we must take instructions from these men. They know the pūjā."
Prabhupāda: That is good proposal.
Hari-śauri: Jaya.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Would you like it to be opened on your Guru Mahārāja's disappearance...
Prabhupāda: Any... Early as possible. That would be nice, Guru Mahārāja appearance day. It is...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's his disappearance day.
Girirāja: The disappearance day is on December 29th, which is just the correct time when we want to open.
Prabhupāda: Ah, that's nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Kṛṣṇa-aṣṭamī. Lord Kṛṣṇa's celebration." Full center page. "A voyage of discovery." "A Christian tribute to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." There's a picture of Your Divine Grace here. It's an article reprinted from Back to Godhead. It says, "All material in this special feature taken from Back to Godhead, the official magazine of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness." This is all... It seems like what they have done... The same thing they did in Fiji, they have done there in South Africa. Because many of the articles... This is a whole..., also all about our society. All of these pages. "Hare Kṛṣṇa puzzle is unraveled." "Jagannātha car festival is one of the oldest in history." Then it tells about the program, how to get to the farm. Then he sent photographs. It's a very beautiful temple, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I don't know if you can see it. This is the temple. You see the white structure here? You can see it has arched domes? Not domes but arches.
Prabhupāda: Very good.
| Page Title: | White (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Rishab, Mayapur |
| Created: | 23 of May, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=232, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 232 |