Hayagrīva: The present-day material scientists, astronomers, state..., one of the theories is that the universe is expanding, that the systems are going outward into space and are moving proportionately further and further from one another, just like raisins rising in dough. When raisin bread is in the oven, the raisins, they go further and further and further apart as the dough expands. So is this...?
Prabhupāda: That expansion goes to a certain extent. Then the expansion stops, then it becomes dwindling and then finished.
Hayagrīva: Well then Bergson is actually incorrect in saying that the universe is evolving toward some grand harmony.
Prabhupāda: That is his imagination. What does he mean by this harmony? Just like I am increasing, your body is increasing, your child's body is increasing. So everybody's body is increasing, so where is the, what does he mean by harmony? It is increasing and it will dwindle and it will finish. That is material nature. If you say this process of increasing and dwindling is going on, that is harmony, then there is no harm, but the, individually everything is going under this process of increasing and decreasing and at the end finished.
Hayagrīva: He gives and example that's something similar to the Vedic. He speaks of "a center from which worlds shoot out like rockets in a fireworks display, provided, however, that I do not present this center as a thing but as a continuity of shooting out. God thus defined has nothing of the already made. He, that is God, is unceasing life, action, and freedom."
Prabhupāda: It is just like a wheel. A wheel is rotating. There are spokes, there are rims, there is a hub, and in the center, what is they call that, that supports the hub?
Hayagrīva: Axle.
Prabhupāda: Spindle, axle, axle. So He is the axle. So the round is going on, but He is the center. Everything is going on but He is the center. Aham ādir hi..., what is called? Devānām. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo (BG 10.8). So the central point is God, and other things are just like a big wheel, and the big wheel has got so many parts. The, it has got the rim, it has got the spokes, it is going in force, but the axle is the same, always in the center.