Scheverman: A child that is born handicapped, intellectually handicapped.
Kern: Cannot walk nor talk.
Prabhupāda: Well, that is another.... That is exceptional. Generally, anyone is born, according to Vedic civilization, everyone is born fourth class. When he takes his birth, it is to be accepted he's a fourth class. Now by training, you can make him first class, second class, third class. By birth, everyone is fourth class.
Kern: I saw a film of a leader of ours, Jean Vanye(?) from Canada and France. He took five thousand retarded.... In Spanish, we say (indistinct), to Rome just for the experience. And they were all in wheelchairs, old and young and small ones—not understanding very much, but a wonderful experience for them, the weak and the wounded.
Jayādvaita: (explaining to Prabhupāda) One priest took many handicapped people, who...
Prabhupāda: No, why you are speaking of handicapped? Who has taken the handicapped? Handicapped is handicapped.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Our program for them is also like this, to give them spiritual...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Apart from that, we shall deal with the handicapped later on.
Kern: That's my, that's my...
Prabhupāda: First of all, we take the general people.
Kern: No, but you were saying that you speak, you are looking for the intelligent, the...
Prabhupāda: Not looking for. I am talking that anyone can be, I mean to say, elevated to the intellectual platform by training. Not the handicapped. Handicapped, there are special cases. That is another thing.
Kern: But...
Prabhupāda: Generally, everyone is born fourth class. Is to be understood. But by training such people you can make them division, first class, second class, third class.
Scheverman: I think we certainly would have no quarrel with that. I think Father's concern is what is your message for, what is your attitude toward those who are handicapped in our society? How do you respond, how do you treat those?
Prabhupāda: Handicapped.... Suppose your hand is cut. So I cannot bring another hand to join. It is not possible. Suppose your hand is cut. The handicap, now "handicut." So can I join any other hand? Is it possible?
Kern: No, but...
Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of...
Kern: No, but you can..., my point is if a child would be born...
Prabhupāda: I'm talking that those who are handicapped, by nature defective, we shall deal with them. That's all right.
Kern: How? How do you deal with them? That's my question.
Prabhupāda: Well, what? How you are dealing? You cannot. I told you that if your hand is cut, is it possible for me to add another hand in your body?
Kern: No, but...
Prabhupāda: Then you are unable. You have to accept it. But as far as possible we can give them help. That is not the question. Question is, those who are not handicapped, they are rotting without education, without enlightenment by keeping themselves as fourth-class, fifth-class men. Why not train them to become first-class men? That is the point. If one is blind, you cannot give him eyes. If one is lame, you cannot give him leg. That is beyond your ability. That is another thing; we shall deal with them later on. First of all, those who are born as human beings, why should you keep them as third-class, fourth-class men?
Kern: So this is a development. Saint Ignatius did the same, somewhat. When he began, he sought the leadership. And he sought the intelligent, so that they might do what.... Obviously, you do it also, seeking the leadership that can then teach. We call it sometimes elitism, and this is perhaps a good word for it.