Mr. Hamidi: Isn't it the approach which makes it different.
Prabhupāda: This is the approach, that first of all you distinguish what is matter, what is spirit. This is the approach.
Mr. Hamidi: Well, perhaps, the spiritual culture, what we mean by that, all the rituals, all the different approach...
Prabhupāda: No, rituals, this will come later on. First of all, let us understand what is matter, what is spirit. Unless we understand what is matter and what is spirit, there is no question of spiritual culture. Therefore you'll be misguided. By material culture, you will pass on as spiritual culture. And that is going on.
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what is the goal once one understands what is spirit and what is matter, what is the goal past that?
Prabhupāda: Goal is there, because spirit is important. Without spirit, matter has no value. This is a material box, but because it has no spirit, it has no value. It has value, comparatively, but not as valuable as a human being because there is no spirit. You can move, if you like, you can go immediately, but this, for many thousands of years it will lie down here. It cannot move. Because there is no spirit. Therefore spirit is important. So this distinction is possible to understand in the human form of body. What is the distinction between a human being or a living man and this box? The distinction is that the living being has the spirit soul within and the box has no spirit soul within. Now if we take care of this box outwardly, that we should take; similarly if you take care of the body only, then where is spiritual culture? If you take care of the four principles of bodily necessities, eating, sleeping and sex and defense, then where is spiritual culture? The aim should be spiritual culture, at least for human beings. The cats and dogs, they cannot understand what is the distinction between spirit and soul, er, spirit and matter, but a human being can understand. This is spiritual side, this is material side. The spiritual side is important. Therefore the goal is how to understand the spiritual side. That is the goal. If we don't cultivate the spiritual side, simply we take care of the bodily side, then we remain animals. And because people are taking only care for the body, this is animal civilization. Human civilization means to take care of the spiritual side. If there is no such attempt to take care of the spiritual side, simply for the material side, then we are no better than the animals. Because they cannot take any care of the spiritual side. They can take care of the material side.
Peter: Is the soul dependent upon the body for its existence.
Prabhupāda: Soul is dependent?
Atreya Ṛṣi: Upon the body for existence.
Prabhupāda: Yes. At the present moment, the soul is dependent on the material body because he has no spiritual culture. Just like we Indians, we were under the British rule. So long there was no national movement, they remained dependent on the Britishers. But as soon as there was national movement they became independent. This is a crude example. Similarly, because we have no spiritual cultivation, we are dependent on this material body. Actually, the soul is not dependent on the body. It has become so under certain condition: because he's thinking that he is this body. They have been described as mūḍha. Mūḍha is an ass. Mūḍha means ass. So I do not know what it is here. In India the asses are kept by the washerman. The washerman loads tons of cloth on the back of the ass to take it to the waterside, and again he brings back to the washerman shop, and the washerman gives a morsel of grass, little, and he eats the grass and stands there to carry the tons of load, thinking that he's dependent on the washerman. He has no intelligence that grass can be had anywhere, why I am dependent on this washerman to carry so much load. Lack of knowledge. Similarly, we are dependent on this body for lack of spiritual knowledge. As soon as he'll be enlightened by spiritual knowledge, then no more dependence. Therefore it is (indistinct). Otherwise, he'll remain like an ass perpetually dependent on the washerman. Mūḍha. We are thinking that without this body we cannot live. No. That is not the fact. We can live independently of this body. But our present position, because we have no spiritual culture, we are thinking that we are dependent on this body. Actually, we are not dependent. That will be revealed the more you advance in spiritual culture. What was his question before?
Atreya Ṛṣi: Is your question satisfied?