What is God (Conversations 1974 - 1975)

Expressions researched:
"what is God" |"what is actually God" |"what is real God" |"what is really God" |"what is that God" |"what is this God"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: "what is God" or "what is actually God" or "what is that God" or "what is really God"

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But have you tasted that tasteless water? (laughter)

Gurukṛpā: If it is so tasteless, why is it quenching?

Karandhara: If someone gives you a glass of water and you drink it, you immediately know what it is.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They'll say the taste of water depends on the amount of chemicals contained in the water.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. So that is Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa. The tastefulness. Tastefulness of water is Kṛṣṇa. Not the water.

Bahulāśva: People have such a clouded idea of what is God, Śrīla Prabhupāda. When you explain it, it's very real.

Gurukṛpā: Prabhupāda, the other day you mentioned that during the eating activities, during sex activity, there is increase of breathing.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gurukṛpā: Now, when we do the kīrtana, there is much increase of breathing. So what is the difference?

Prabhupāda: The difference is that... (Break) ...why your child is less conscious than yourself?

Gurukṛpā: Because he's not developed.

Prabhupāda: He's also living entity. Why he's foolish, and why you are intelligent? What is the answer?

Gurukṛpā: Because the consciousness is more developed.

Prabhupāda: Then develop... So you develop your consciousness. Then you will understand Kṛṣṇa.

Gurukṛpā: So I must be more fortunate than the other living entities in my body.

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Bali Mardana: They will say, "Well, how do we know that Kṛṣṇa is God?"

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bali Mardana: They will say, "How do we...?"

Prabhupāda: No, no, Kṛṣṇa is not God, but you have already surrendered to God. Kṛṣṇa may not be God, that is... You bring another God, then we shall reject him. Kṛṣṇa... But that you cannot. You do not know who is God. At least, we know what is God. But if you deny that Kṛṣṇa is not God, then bring another God at least equal to Kṛṣṇa.

Bali Mardana: They'll bring Guru Maharaji. (laughter) Many people were disappointed in Houston because he did not display any miracles. They were expecting to see many things.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bali Mardana: Many of his followers were disappointed 'cause they expected him to show some miracles.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He will be rejected after a few years. That's all. Just like Maharishi.

Bali Mardana: Maharishi.

Satsvarūpa: I told one professor that... He was arguing in favor of Guru Maharaji. I said, "He's not mentioned in the scriptures," and he says, "Yes, in the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says whenever there's a time of irreligion then He comes. So this is a time certainly of irreligion," he said. So that's one evidence, he said, in his favor.

Prabhupāda: So what he has done about religion?

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Heḥ?

Nitāi: We can see that he hasn't done anything; others would say that "Oh, he's got a movement just like you."

Prabhupāda: No, it is not my movement; it is old. I don't say it is my movement. Neither I say that I am God. I am simply speaking of the established movement. Now, my movement is that Kṛṣṇa is God. So Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7), "There is no more superior authority than Me," but is it a fact that this rascal is the supreme authority?

Bali Mardana: No one has any idea what is God. So he, the people... they say, "Here is God", and no no can disprove it, 'cause they have no idea what is God.

Prabhupāda: No, no, here is the idea. God must be the supreme authority. So let him prove that he is the supreme authority. He's checked by the custom authority and he's God? He goes to the hospital and he's God? Here is the definition of God, that "There is no more superior authority than Me." And Kṛṣṇa proved. History says that there was no more superior authority than Kṛṣṇa. Then let him prove that first.

Satsvarūpa: When the customs authorities tried to stop Kṛṣṇa in Mathurā, He cut off their heads. They said, "Where are you going with that cloth?"

Prabhupāda: No, that is supreme authority. Supreme authority means nobody can check. That is supreme authority. But he is checked in so many ways.

Sudāmā: But the rascals, they say that "This is his līlā."

Prabhupāda: Līlā? Then I kick on your face. that is also my līlā. (laughter)

Bali Mardana: What's that.

Morning Walk -- April 4, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Unlimited mouths. The unlimited person. As soon as you say, "unlimited mouths," means unlimited person. That is not imperson. Even in His aneka-mūrti He is person. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā in the Second Chapter, that all we remained person in the past, we are persons at present, and we shall continue to become persons in the future. So this impersonal description of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is for the persons who do not understand what is God.

Girirāja: "It was all wondrous. The form was decorated with divine, dazzling ornaments and arrayed..."

Prabhupāda: Again personality. And where do they get the idea of impersonal, even in the virāṭ-rūpa? How do they get? What is the authority?

Chandobhai: Gopīs are personal.

Prabhupāda: No, no, everything is being described as person. So where is the question of imperson? Even in His aneka mūrti, in the virāṭ form, universal form, there are persons. At least from Bhagavad-gītā, nobody can prove that the Absolute Truth, God, is imperson. That is not possible. But still, they are doing that. That means they do not understand what is Bhagavad-gītā, although they are very much proud of regular scholar of Bhagavad-gītā. So am I right or wrong? Let us discuss.

Chandobhai: He is both personal and impersonal.

Prabhupāda: No, no, why?

Dr. Patel: You are right.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...if you know which ācārya is correct.

Indian man (2): Oh which ācārya. So if your conscience... (break)

Prabhupāda: Ācārya means one. Ācārya... Just like Vedavyasa. Vedavyasa. (Indian man talking in background) (break) Now, then you must know what is God. That is God.

Indian man (2): So why talk about ācāryas and why discuss these things?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Why discuss not? Discussion must be there to understand. First of all, if God is...

Indian man (2): There should be no uncompromising attitude regarding other's views. You see we must have our attitude of brotherhood. (break)

Prabhupāda: What Vyāsadeva says? That is described in the...

Dr. Patel: What Vyāsadeva says. Different ācāryas' interpretation...

Prabhupāda: No, no. There is no interpretation. How can you interpret?

Indian man (2): (break) ...follow ācārya. You see... (break)

Prabhupāda: Ācārya means not foolishly.

Indian man (2): Foolishly? There should be rational outlook. Yes, I agree with you. There should be rational outlook about all these things, and then, you see...

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Or daridra-nārāyaṇa.

Prabhupāda: Or daridra-nārāyaṇa, that is the same.

Girirāja: (reads synonyms to:) "viṣve—the Visvadevas..." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...clearly described, what is God, what is the distinction between God and other demigods, living entity. Everything is clearly explained. So you can talk all nonsense without Bhagavad-gītā. That is another chapter. But if you claim that "We read Bhagavad-gītā," you cannot say like that. That is our propaganda. If you actually have read Bhagavad-gītā, then you cannot say all this nonsense. (break)

Dr. Patel: ...common features of Kṛṣṇa are common to all paramparās. It can't be different from one another.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Paramparā. He says, "As soon as this paramparā was lost, the Bhagavad-gītā was lost." Naṣṭaḥ, it is said, naṣṭaḥ. "Therefore I am taking you again as paramparā." You see? If you do not accept...

Dr. Patel: What you say... I mean... Listen. This is one of the way of seeing things.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, you see... open, open (indistinct)

Dr. Patel: Kṛṣṇa is so multifarious and so multiple energies He has got that only ekasmin...

Prabhupāda: No, no, here it is said, in the Fourth... This is Fourth Chapter?

Dr. Patel: No, this is Twelfth Chapter. I am reading the common features of all the sādhus. Adveṣṭā sarva-bhūtānāṁ maitraḥ karuṇa eva ca, nirmamo nirahaṅkāraḥ, nirahaṅkāraḥ (BG 12.13). We must have (Sanskrit)

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Yaśomatīnandana: He means material science.

Prabhupāda: Material science? No, no, I am talking of Kṛṣṇa science.

Indian man (2): About the existence of God?

Prabhupāda: Not only existence. What is God, first of all. He must exist. Otherwise, where there is question of "What is God?" So what is the nature of God, what is our position, what is our relationship with God, what is our duty, and what is the goal of life, these things are very thoroughly discussed in Bhagavad-gītā. So if we understand Bhagavad-gītā very nicely, then we understand the whole science of God. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...that Kṛṣṇa comes, descends personally, to settle up the contention whether God is person or imperson. So even the Kṛṣṇa's presence cannot convince these Māyāvādīs, poor fund of knowledge, that Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord is person.

Girirāja: (reading:) "Somehow people can understand the different incarnations of Your Lordship, but they are puzzled to understand the eternal form of Kṛṣṇa with two hands, moving among human beings exactly like one of them."

Prabhupāda: (break) ...them, the form is meant for killing them, chastising them. Therefore dangerous. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). So for the nondevotees the form is very dangerous. Sadā paśyanti yoginaḥ. Yogis, they concentrate their mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. That is real yoga. (break) ...boat, he crossed over.

Morning Walk -- April 18, 1974, Bombay:

Girirāja: "...the material luminaries, Your transcendental effulgence is identical with brahmajyoti." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...advised and all the ācāryas advised, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's advised. Why should we go somewhere else? Take shelter of His lotus feet. That's all. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). This is right conclusion. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). (break) Mahātmā, immediately by surrendering to Kṛṣṇa. Immediately. (break) A child, if he is informed, "God is everywhere," he will never understand what is God. He knows that God is there, that this God consciousness is there. So what is the use of educating him, "Oh, God is everywhere. You don't require to go to temple?" This is nonsense. It is kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. He must know, "Here is God." He goes there, offer respect. All the children come. (break) ...a man, military man like Arjuna.

Dr. Patel: Yes. Can he be a general?

Prabhupāda: Mr. Sar.

Mr. Sar: Arjuna was a very, very great general, the most ideal general representing the real culture of this country.

Prabhupāda: That is wanted. It doesn't matter. Nanda Mahārāja, a vaiśya. Arjuna is a kṣatriya. And there are many śūdras also. So what is that goat(?) caṇḍāla. He was a caṇḍāla. But everyone has got the right to become a devotee. That is wanted. (break) ...tanuvān manobhiḥ. Remain in your place, but giving aural reception to the Kṛṣṇa message, you become a devotee. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We don't ask anybody to change. We want to make him transcendental. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). (break) Brahma-stuta śruti-kārayan. Now, in the brahma-stuta, yaṁ brahma, beginning... So that is yaṁ brahma. Then simply if you recite, yaṁ brahma... You must know who is that yam. And that is being explained by Kṛṣṇa. Here is that yam, Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Pañcadraviḍa: These things, they are also in (sic:) Manu-saṁhitā?

Prabhupāda: That is for... Manu-saṁhitā forbids completely. Manu-saṁhitā is not religion. It is moral principles for conducting society. Religion is how to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is religion. That is natural. (break) "...shalt not kill," this is expectation. "Someday, in future, one may become religious." That's all. Because by killing, killing, they are going downer, down. So if they stop killing, some day they will be able to understand what is religion. Sukṛti. Because, without being freed from all sinful activities, nobody can understand what is God. Therefore about God, in India they can understand very easily. In other countries they cannot. Very few because always engaged in sinful activities, all forbidden sinful activities. Just like you said that gambling has been introduced in religion. Killing has been introduced in religion. What is that religion? The more they take to the sinful activities, the more they become implicated—again birth and birth and birth and birth. Unless one is completely free, he cannot understand what is God. Yeṣam anta-gataṁ pāpam. You know this verse? The Bhagavad-gītā, yes.

Pañcadraviḍa: When one becomes free of sinful activities, then he can begin devotional life.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Pañcadraviḍa: Because they are not serving Him... (break) ...relationship. They are not actively serving Him. They are engaging themselves... We see practically that some people say they are theists...

Prabhupāda: Then what is the meaning of service?

Pañcadraviḍa: Service means a relationship of serving out of love. So people are simply serving their stomach or...

Prabhupāda: "So if I haven't got love, then why I am coming to church?"

Satsvarūpa: Well, we're educating them what is God. They go to church, but they don't know. "What is your idea of God?" We ask them.

Prabhupāda: "Whatever it may be, when I offer my prayers, I remember there is some God. I may not have clear idea. I have got my own conception of God." So what is the answer?

Satsvarūpa: Well, there are symptoms if you... We don't discourage, as Pañcadraviḍa Mahārāja says, but if you are following God, the best religion is that which develops love of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is answered. "If I haven't got love for God, then why I am coming to church?"

Pañcadraviḍa: If you have love for God, why you are coming to church?

Prabhupāda: No. "Because I have got love for God, therefore I am coming to church. At that time I could have earned some money."

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no. We, we don't think in terms of Hinduism. We don't think.

Dr. Patel: No. But we have been actually brought up religiously as communists, religious communists.

Prabhupāda: Spiritual communists. Religious, religious upon strict sense of religion. Religion means spiritualism.

Dr. Patel: Yes, spiritual communism.

Prabhupāda: Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Religion means to abide by the orders of Kṛṣṇa. That is religion. Other things are cheating. If they have no sense of God, they do not know what is God, how to abide by the orders of God, that is not religion. Therefore Bhāgavata says, dharmaḥ-projjhita kaitavo atra: (SB 1.1.2) "All cheating types of religion system is rejected, kicked out from this Bhāgavata." They're all cheating. "I am God. You are God. I am everything. You are..." This is not religion. It is all humbug religion. Go on. (break) ...has written about Kṛṣṇa by Vyāsadeva, and people say, "There was no Kṛṣṇa. It is all fictitious." Vyāsadeva had to take so much trouble for some fictitious. Just see their intelligence. Even no common sense. Why Śukadeva Gosvāmī will take interest? Why Vyāsadeva will write such book? Therefore they do not recognize that Bhāgavata is written by Vyāsadeva. But how they can deny? Bhagavad-gītā, that is also written by Vyāsadeva.

Yaśomatīnandana: So-called scholars like Rādhākrishnan says, "It is, Vyāsadeva, is some imaginary character."

Dr. Patel: Why they say even Vyāsadeva is imaginary?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Patel: They say, some of them, there was not one Vyāsadeva, but multiple Vyāsas and all sorts of things.

Prabhupāda: So which Vyāsa you accept? There may be multiple but which Vyāsa? That means if someone... I do not know if there were multiple Vyāsadeva.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: The highest is Satyaloka, no?

Prabhupāda: Brahmaloka. No highest Brahmaloka, where Lord Brahmā lives.

Yaduvara: "There was beating of drums, and being inspired by godly feelings, the residents of Gandharvaloka began to play on their tamburās to please the Lord. Once when he was..." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...what is God. Such innocent. You see? They thought, "Might be some demigod." That's all.

Yaduvara;: "O Nanda Mahārāja, we are now in great doubt. Your son Kṛṣṇa must be one of the demigods." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Yaduvara: "And he saved all honest men from the hands of the dishonest." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...Vṛndāvana inhabitants, they are always anxious how to save the cows, always. They are connected with cows.

Yaduvara: "Thus ends the Bhaktivedanta purport of the Twenty-sixth chapter of Kṛṣṇa, Wonderful Kṛṣṇa." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...only Indra, even an ordinary person, he thinks he is all in all.

Dr. Patel: When he does work, he says, ahaṁ kartā, ahaṁ kartā.

Prabhupāda: Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). They think like that, the mūḍhas. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. Vimūḍha. Not only mūḍha, vimūḍha.

Dr. Patel: Viśeṣa-mūḍha.

Prabhupāda: Viśeṣa. But... you are right. "Specifically mūḍha." (break)

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: No. There is no question of... That is explained in the..., that Bhāgavata, Brahma-sūtra, who is God, first of all. Who is God?

O'Grady: Who told God?

Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all, "Who is God?" Then we shall ask, "Who told God?" (chuckles) That God... That is the Vedānta-sūtra, athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now we should enquire about God, what is God, who is God." Unless you know who is God, how can you raise the question, "Who instructed God?" If you do not know God, then the question does not arise, "Who instructed God?" Is it not? Yes. So therefore God is explained in the Brahma-sūtra, janmādy asya yataḥ: (SB 1.1.1) "God is He from everything comes, emanates." That is God. That God is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, janmādy asya yataḥ: (SB 1.1.1) "The Supreme Being from whom everything emanates." Now, what is that Supreme Being? What is the nature of the Supreme Being? It is a dead stone or a living being? That is also explained. Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ sva-rāṭ (SB 1.1.1). "That God is fully cognizant of everything, directly and indirectly." Unless He is fully cognizant of everything, directly and indirectly, He is not God. So then the same question comes, as you said, that "Who taught God?"

O'Grady: Yes, that's the man I want to meet.

Prabhupāda: That is answered, sva-rāṭ. "Independent." That is God.

O'Grady: Independ...?

Prabhupāda: Independent. He is fully independent. He does not require to take lessons from anyone. That is God. That is God. If anyone requires to take lesson from other, he is not God. Who does not require to take lesson from other, that is God.

Morning Walk -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: What they will debate? If they debate like rascal, that is another thing. If they debate like sane man, then there cannot be any difference of opinion. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). So what is your debate on this point, that living entities, they flourish by food grains? So what is your debate on this point?

Yogeśvara: Well, they may agree that the teachings are good, but they can't accept it as proof that Kṛṣṇa was God.

Prabhupāda: Well, then you have to give me definition of God. What is God? If you know God, then you can say that "Kṛṣṇa is not God." Otherwise, how you can say He is not God? I give you a piece of gold: If you say, "It is not gold," then you show me what is gold. Otherwise, you are talking nonsense. If you do not know the things as it is, how you can say, "It is not this"? If you know the positive, then you can say the negative.

Yogeśvara: Well, there are many people who say that they have actually experienced God.

Prabhupāda: What is that God? Tell me.

Yogeśvara: Well, it's like the Guru Maharaji people. They say they've seen Guru Maharaji lifting Govardhana Hill and displaying universal form and so many miracles. They say they have seen Guru Maharaji doing all the miracles that Kṛṣṇa claims to have done.

Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa, when Kṛṣṇa is present, when He lifted the Govardhana Hill, everyone saw. Where is your rascal Guru Mahārāja doing that, everyone can see? When Kṛṣṇa in Vṛndāvana, He lifted the Govardhana Hill. All the inhabitants saw it. (break)

Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Our movement is that, that is first-class religious system which teaches how to love God. This is the sum and substance of our movement. There is a Sanskrit statement in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam,

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yayātmā suprasīdati

(SB 1.2.6)

If you want to be happy, then you must take to the superior type of religious system which teaches the followers how to love God without any motive, and which is never checked by any material condition. God's name is given here as Adhokṣaja. Adhokṣaja means beyond experimental knowledge. God has got many name according to different situation, and one of the name, for the materialistic person, adhokṣaja. Akṣaja means experimental knowledge. Akṣa means eyes or senses. Beyond sense perception. So we cannot speculate about God, but we can understand about God from authorities. This is the conception of Bhāgavata-dharma. So the human life is especially meant for understanding God. That is the version of the Vedānta-sūtra, Vedānta philosophy. The Vedānta philosophy teaches, athāto brahma jijñāsā, "Now this human form of body, which is above the lower grades of forms..." There are 8,400,000 forms of body. The soul is transmigrating, evolution. But when we get this human form of body, our main business is to inquire about God. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Now, if somebody inquires what is God, the immediate reply is, God is the source, original source of everything. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). So the human form of life is meant for understanding God, and according to our philosophy, if human body is not utilized for understanding God, then it is misused. If we simply spoil our life like the animals, eating, sleeping, sex life and defending, then the human life is spoiled like animals.

Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: This is graduate study. Then after this there is post-graduate study, this Caitanya-caritāmṛta. This book is in twelve volumes, and other book, Bhāgavatam, is sixty volumes. There are many other corollaries, just like Science of Devotion. Have you got this book? No. Nectar of Devotion. So we have already published about two dozen books of this nature. So people are accepting, especially in the western countries. Recently we have received report. Some of the learned scholar professors, they have ordered all the books. They have introducing in their class. Yale University, Temple University. And they are enlisting my books in the bibliography, of Indian philosophy, and they are distributing to the learned circles. And last year we have sold four millions pieces of literature in the western countries. So we are encouraged. And these boys, young boys, they have encouraged me by joining this movement. And one priest in Boston, he issued one pamphlet that "These boys are our boys. How is that? Before that, they did not come to church. They did not inquire what is God. And now why they are mad after God?" This was his remark. And some of the American public, they inquire from them, "Are you Americans?" So this movement is getting ground all over the world, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And amongst the higher scholarly section also. This is sum and substance of our movement. Our principle is to become sinless. Because in the Bhagavad-gītā you will find this verse. Find out.

Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Recently some of our preachers, they have collected fifty-thousand dollars from the Japanese people. They wanted to contribute me for my Vṛndāvana temple, but the Japanese government will not allow to let the money go out. He wrote me. And I have seen personally, when I went... I went to Japan three, four times. These Japanese boys and girls, they are as good as these American, Europeans boys. And that is my practical... Or they, they are my students. They offer me respect so much. The Japanese boys, without being my students, they offer the same respect. So I thought that Japan is very good. Everywhere. That I told you already, that the love of Godhead is dormant in everyone. It doesn't matter what he is. It is the process to awaken that love of Godhead: That is first-class religion. The matter is already there. Simply we have to awaken. And now, that process which awakens very quickly, that is first-class religion. That is the first... And besides that, really understanding of God is very rarely found. Find out this verse,

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

(BG 7.3)

"Out of many millions of persons," manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu, "somebody is trying to make his life perfect." Others, they are simply trying to enjoy life like animals. So manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye, and yatatām api siddhānām: (BG 7.3) "And out of many millions of such persons who are trying to make his life perfect, hardly one can understand what is God." This is the statement. Read it.

Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: So the position is, that hardly, out of many millions, one can actually understand what is God. So our field of activity is everywhere in that sense, not in this particular and that particular... Because in truth hardly very few people understands what is God.

Cardinal Pignedoli: Yeah, that's wonderful. We ought to see you in India sometimes for real again and...

Bhagavān: Do they have a copy of Bhagavad-gītā?

Dhanañjaya: I don't think you have this.

Cardinal Pignedoli: What is this?

Dhanañjaya: If you like, you can take this.

Cardinal Pignedoli: I have, I have this.

Dhanañjaya: You can have this.

Cardinal Pignedoli: Yes, I have. Thank you.

Room Conversation with Biochemist, Dr. Sallaz -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: That the material energies—earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego—these energies, they come from Kṛṣṇa. In other words, we are speaking of energy. There is an origin to the energy. We always have an experience. Just like there is sunshine here, but the sun, origin, is millions of miles away. So in the same way these energies also have origin. It's not that they are just existing without some source. And Kṛṣṇa is describing here in the Seventh Chapter—this is called Knowledge of the Absolute—how these energies are related to Him. Now, in the material world it's described that there are two energies. This is called bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā, inferior energy. This will be described in the next verse. Apareyam itas tv anyāṁ prakṛtiṁ viddhi me parām (BG 7.5). Now, this is describing the superior energy or the parām, the parāṁ prakṛti. And this is described, "Besides this inferior nature," which is this earth, air, water, fire, ether, "O Mighty-armed Arjuna, there is a superior energy of Mine which are all the living entities who are struggling with material nature and are sustaining the universe." So this earth, air, water, fire and ether... Just like your body, it is being sustained by the soul. And as soon as the soul leaves the body, then, of course, the earth, air, water, fire and ether, it is no longer sustained in this fashion. It merges into the various elements or energies. And in this way, we can understand that the material world is made up of two energies, as my spiritual master said: the inferior energy, or this aparā-prakṛti, earth, air, water, fire, ether, etc., and the superior energy, or the living force. So the point is that the life force does not come from a combination of earth, air, water, fire, ether. It is separate. That is a superior energy. And on this point we agree. Now, we have to find out what is the source of both the superior and inferior material energies, or what is God.

Prabhupāda: And that is spiritual energy. That is spiritual energy. When we find out the source of these two energies, that the beginning of spiritual life, or spiritual understanding.

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: There is no different religion. As soon as one tries to understand different religion, it is to be concluded that he does not know what is religion. That religion cannot be different. Religion is one. God is one. And the order given by God, that is religion. But "different" means according to time and circumstances... Just like Lord Buddha, he is giving the same religion. He is God, incarnation of God. He is asking, "Just obey Me." The same philosophy is being taught by Kṛṣṇa, "Surrender unto Me." That is religion. Buddha also says "Surrender unto Me. Obey Me." So that is religion. Yes. So the religion is... One who knows God and surrenders to Him, that is religion, and anything, that is all cheating. Anything else, that is all cheating. That is not religion. This is religion. God is one, and surrender to God, that is religion. That's all. You take any religion, it doesn't matter. If one has learned what is God and how to surrender to Him, that is religion.

Prof. Regamay: But I noted that for instance our Christian approach to God...

Prabhupāda: In Christianity they also recommend surrender to God.

Prof. Regamay: It's nearer to your approach than, for instance, I don't know, as the kevalādvaita I mean, where nirguṇa-brahman is the higher form of, than...

Prabhupāda: Nirguṇa-brahman... Just like... Here we have got this example. This is, what is called, New Zealand lake, and a few step after...,

Guru-gaurāṅga: Geneva Lake.

Prabhupāda: Geneva Lake. And few step after French lake.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Yes. The father is God, and they are all sons. But they have, they have been given different types of dress according to karma. So when actually one loves God, he loves all of them as brothers, not that only human being. That is not love of God. Then he does not know what is God. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll not find a single sentence where it is recommended that "Only love the human being." There is no such thing.

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Frenchman: (French)

Yogeśvara: He's asking, "Well, that's all right. But this love that we have for God, only man can give it. An animal can't love God. A tree can't love God."

Prabhupāda: But you can love animal. You are not animal. Animal... Just like we are discussing about theosophy because we are grown up, and the child, he cannot understand. That does not mean we shall be unkind to the children. He may be ignorant, the animal may be ignorant, but I am not ignorant. How can I kill the animal?

Swiss Man (1): (French)

Yogeśvara: He's asking, "How do we see ourselves and how is it that we intentionally distinguish ourselves by dressing differently, by having a different presentation than the rest of society."

Guru-gaurāṅga: Given the fact that all others, they are loving God too, the same principle, Christianity...

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: No, symptoms must be there. If you love God, then you should love everything of God. You cannot distinguish that "These are human beings. They should be given service, and the animals should be sent to the slaughterhouse." That is not love of God. That means he does not know what is God. He is still unaware of God. Just like father. Father has got ten sons. Out of them, one is very intelligent or two are very intelligent; others are fools. And if the intelligent sons propose to the father, "Father, these are useless sons. Let me kill," will the father agree? So God is father of all living entities. He is providing food for the animal, for the man, because He is father. There is, in the jungle of Africa elephants. They are eating at a time hundred kilos. The father is providing. And the ant, a small ant, is eating one grain of sugar. He is providing. Within the hole of your room there are millions of ants. The father is providing food for them. That is God. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That one is providing all necessities of life to everyone, all living entities. That is God. So if I know God, then I can know also that all of them are sons of God and God is providing all their necessities of life. What right I have got to kill them?

Swiss Man (1): (French)

Yogeśvara: (translates) He says, "Yes, but we see that among the animals there are certain, many species that do eat meat."

Prabhupāda: Among the animals. But you are not animal.

M. Roche-dieu: They do not eat anything else.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: At the time of danger, we remember providence or God. That is also good. So that is a Hindi proverb that duhkse sab hari bhaje, sukse bhaje kol, sukse ajar hari bhaje, duhka ase hay(?). Means "When one is in danger, he remembers God, and when he is in happiness he forgets God. Therefore if he remembers God always, then where is danger?" So our business is to become God conscious. Then there will be no anxiety. So we are preaching that, I, here, that you become God conscious. Death is there. You cannot save yourself. Either you are on the land or on the plane, death will be there. You must be prepared for the death. But if by practicing remembering God, even at the time of death you continue to remember God, then your life is successful. Death will be there. You cannot stop that. Ante nārāyaṇa-smṛtiḥ (SB 2.1.6). So if at the time of death we can remember God, then our life is successful. Therefore, before death we shall mold our life in such a way that always thinking of God. Man-manā bhava mad... Satataṁ cintayanto mām. Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām (BG 9.14). This is life. We should always remember God. Then we must know who is God otherwise how can I remember? If I have no idea of God, then how can I remember? So we must know what is God. We must remember always God. We must become a devotee of God. In that way we can save ourself from the anxiety. Otherwise it is not possible. Because a God-conscious man, he knows that "I'll die. Everyone will die; I'll also die." But his concern is: "At the time of death, I shall remember Kṛṣṇa." That's all. Then his life is successful. Death we cannot avoid. There must be. Tyaktvā deham. We have to give up this body. But the question is how I shall give up this body. The cats, dogs, they also give up their body, and I'll also have to give up my body. But shall I give up the body like cats and dogs, or as human being? That is the process. Therefore one should, a human being should prepare himself how to give up this body. That is humanity. Kṛṣṇa says... Find out this verse. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9).

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: A girl is pregnant, suppose, then, during her pregnancy period, ten months, there is no sex, and unless the child becomes six months old, there is no sex. The thing is that in the modern world, sex life has become the only pleasure. They do not know anything else. Therefore everything is discredited. And another thing is they are afraid of keeping more than one wife for population. But if they produce sufficient food, where is the question of overpopulation? Another thing they have made, especially in the western world, they don't want to produce food because they know, "We shall kill one animal and eat. Why take so much trouble? Let me increase industry, and I shall push my button. Money will come. And the slaughterhouse there. We shall eat." So they are getting money. By money, they are getting women to the choice. They are getting food, meat, and they're enjoying drinking. So money has become the whole thing. "Bring money some way or other and enjoy." This is the purport of civilization. They do not care what is God, that human body is meant for God realization. They have no such ideas. "There is nothing after death. So so long I am living, let me enjoy by the tongue, by the genital and by the belly. Use the tongue for eating anything which is palatable, which I like. Never mind what it is. And then genital also. Bring as many women..." This is civilization, modern. There is no question of sinful life or pious life, next life. (laughs) Another, their theory is that only on this planet there is living entities... (break) If there is sufficient rain in the desert, it will be also hot. (break) ...tells us in the śāstras how to live comfortably and advance in spiritual life. And they should give advice to others. That is the business of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau tri-bhuvane mānyau śaraṇyākarau. This is the description of the Gosvāmīs. They are well versed in all different types of Vedic scriptures just to establish a peaceful society sad-dharma, very nice gentleman, peaceful society. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau, for the benefit of the whole human society. Therefore they are honored all over the world. This is gosvāmī business, not to exploit (indistinct) live like irresponsible man, eat, drink, be merry and enjoy.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Guru-gaurāṅga: That man yesterday wanted to know if we collaborated with other groups.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is collaboration. We are proposing this collaboration. All religion, they're after... Religion means to accept God. So if you accept God, we accept God. Then where is no cooperation? This is cooperation. But if you don't know what is God, we know. That is the difference. Ask this Christians, Mohammedans, and any other religious group, they have got a conception of God, ask them what is the form of God, what does He do, what is His..., so many things. They do not know. But we know.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: They simply say He is spirit.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all, vague idea. We say, "Here is God." So if you actually believe in God, why don't you take this God and the whole, all different types of religions become one? If you accept God, then we say, "Here is God." So where is the point of difference? How do you differ? Why do you say that you are different religion, my religion? Why do you say, "My religion"? Everyone... This is the only religion: to know God and love Him. What is their objection? To accept God, Kṛṣṇa? What is their object? What is their reason?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: They want to gratify their senses.

Prabhupāda: Why do you make a different God? If you actually believe in God, I say, "Here is God." Why don't you accept? Eh?

Satsvarūpa: Impersonalism. They don't want...

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Priest: But you know, it's true, but you have got so many idea of God according to your own spiritual temperament.

Prabhupāda: No, God is one. There cannot be many ideas of God. That is not possible.

Priest: You have got many idea of God.

Prabhupāda: No, many ideas, that means he does not know what is God.

Priest: Because anyhow, when we say "God," we have to put into words, intellectual words, what is an experience.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Priest: And this experience is different for many people.

Prabhupāda: You experience... Because your knowledge is imperfect, therefore your experience is also imperfect.

Priest: But who is to say...

Prabhupāda: That is... Yes.

Priest: ...what is a perfect experience?

Prabhupāda: No. Even we are imperfect, with our... As far as our knowledge goes, generally, just like the Christians, they say "God is great." Is it not?

Priest: That is rather the Muslims.

Prabhupāda: Huh? That is Muslim.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So at least in the human society, everyone must have understanding of God, that is expected. It is not expected in the society of cats and dogs because they are animals. The human being, dharmasya glāniḥ, there is dharma, some sort of religious system. And religious system means to understand God. That's all. Just like to become a lawyer means to understand the laws of the state. Similarly, religious system means the process by which one can understand God. And that is the summary of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). That is first-class religious system which trains the followers to understand God and love Him. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir, ahaituky apratihatā (SB 1.2.6). If somebody says, "Oh, it is a very great thing to understand God and to love Him," they are thinking it is not possible. No. The answer is ahaituky apratihatā. It can be learned by anyone. It is not checked by any material condition. If one wants to know what is God and to love Him, the path is open for everyone. It does not require high intelligence, high education, high culture. No. Anyone. The process is śravaṇam, the beginning. One has to hear. One may be fool number one, it doesn't matter. No education, it doesn't matter. Poor, doesn't matter. Black, doesn't matter. White, doesn't matter. You try to hear. Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ (SB 3.25.25). Therefore, Vedic injunction is in order to know, go to the bona fide guru and hear. Ādau gurv-āśrayam, sad-dharma pṛcchāt. So even one has no experience, if he goes to the experienced man, experienced person, then you can understand and you can love God, and that is perfection of life. Tad viddhi...

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (4): Because they have not realized that we have taken a responsibility. When a man has a responsibility, usually he is given some certain facilities to carry out that responsibility.

Prabhupāda: Everyone cent percent godless, neither they have got intelligence to understand what is God. This is going on.

Yogeśvara: Then we are giving them the intelligence as well as the answers? Because if they have no intelligence to understand...

Prabhupāda: Yes, our organization is that. Why you are opening so many centers? Just to give these rascals intelligence. Why Krsna is recognizing so nicely a preacher? Because He knows that he has to face so many difficulties. It is not easy going. Armchair politician, no. He has to face so many difficulties.

Devotee (3): Therefore, Krsna recognizes by giving knowledge of Himself?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Krsna immediately gives him all facilities.

Devotee (3): There has never been a movement like this which has given them factual knowledge of God. Therefore, they think it's sentiment, religion.

Room Conversation with Monsieur Mesman, Chief of Law House of Paris -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Pṛthu-putra: He asks what are we doing for that?

Nitāi: What ways are we doing that?

Pṛthu-putra: In which way, what way, how?

Prabhupāda: This, we are chanting the holy name of Lord so that people may hear and their hearts be cleansed to understand what is God. (French)

Pṛthu-putra: This gentleman asks if the disciples have to give up their religion, if, for example, they are Christian, they have to give up Christianity to be devotee.

Prabhupāda: Well, Christianity also, they are trying to understand God, and we are also trying to understand, not only understand, but we, we are trying others to understand what is God. (French)

Pṛthu-putra: He asks if we have temple in France or if we do in apartment or if we do in conference, private conferences. How we are doing it?

Prabhupāda: Anyway. We welcome all, all learned men, or leading men, to understand this philosophy. And the book is... You show Bhagavad-gītā. And all other books also show him. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says, unfortunately, he doesn't read English.

Prabhupāda: Here is French. French language. (French)

Bhagavān: We have practical political philosophy.

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Jyotirmayī: Franscend.

Pṛthu Putra: Franscend. He says there is many swami and writer come from India and teach to the people, to the western people, what is Kṛṣṇa, what is Indian philosophy, what is God, but they always teach the people who need to be safe, to be, who need something to be safe, and they take it like just a drug or some kind of a dream just to get something to get safe from the material world. But that doesn't mean their action is concrete. That is his point.

Prabhupāda: But we are not doing that. We are, in the material world, we are teaching Kṛṣṇa philosophy, practicing. All these young men, they are actually twenty-four hours engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are different from them. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He thinks that the people in western world, mostly now they take Indian religion, some religion or philosophy come from India, because the Christian philosophy has some defect.

Prabhupāda: Very good. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says the religions that come from India are infinitely richer than the religion we know in the West. And we cannot see only one aspect. He says there is so many faces in Indian religions.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In... The idea of philosophy and religion, that is originated from India. There is no doubt about it. And that original idea of philosophy is practically demonstrated by Kṛṣṇa. The ideal original ideal of religion and philosophy is preached by Kṛṣṇa. And all the ācāryas followed that. (French)

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Bhārgava: There was one survey done by a college, a university, Michigan State, and Rūpānuga Mahārāja researched it and said 94% of the people in America, they believe there is a God, but only 35% will go to church. They are not very much interested in the churches anymore. They don't trust them. But 94% believe there is God.

Prabhupāda: Because the church could not help them in understanding God. The Christian church has no idea what is God. Therefore there is no name of God. Actually, they have no idea about God. Is there?

Devotee: I was raised up a very strict Catholic, going through Catholic school till I was fifteen years old, but I could not... They were trying to teach love of God, but I could not see that they were also loving God. Even the head priest, he was found having illicit sex relationships with one of the young nuns, and she became pregnant by that and he had to leave. They quietly sent him away without anybody knowing, but later on it came out.

Prabhupāda: That is going on everywhere.

Devotee: And I saw, "What is the point? They are not even loving God." They were teaching loving God, but I could not see it.

Prabhupāda: He said that Vivekananda was doing that. You said? Just tell him.

Nitāi: That once I met a little old lady on the streets of Denver when I was distributing books.

Prabhupāda: Old lady.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Now first of all, let us understand what is God. Then prayer. If you do not understand God, then what you'll prayer? If we understand that there is the active principle, then the prayer we have already described, janmādy asya yataḥ anvayāt itarataś cārtheṣu abhijñaḥ: (SB 1.1.1) "I pray to the Supreme Personality of Godhead Vāsudeva who is the origin of all creation." This is the active principle. There is. So... And how He is working? (To Jyotirmayī:) You have to explain. (French) In the beginning of Bhāgavatam, I offering the prayer. So the process is that I offer my all respect to the Absolute Truth, Supreme Truth, from whom the creation has taken place, everything is resting, working nicely, and after annihilation, it will go there. And when you study what is the nature of the original source, it is said, abhijñaḥ, cognizant. He knows everything. Just like I am the owner of this body, I, the soul, but still, I do not know how the body is working. I am eating, but I do not know how my eatables transformed into secretion, then goes to the heart, then... Of course, they have discovered something, but not fully. So I do not know what is going in within my body. I do not know how many hairs are there. But God knows everything, nook and corner of the whole universe. But if we compare ourself with God, that is impossible, because naturally we get knowledge from others, we may question, "Wherefrom God got knowledge?" Therefore it is stated there, svarāṭ. He hasn't got to take knowledge from anyone else. He's independently full of knowledge. (French)

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: That would be impersonal. (French)

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Bhakti, yes. Prapatti means bhakti. Just like I can surrender unto you when I have got full faith and devotion unto you. Otherwise, I cannot. That is wanted. If we simply surrender to God, then everything is complete. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā, the prapati is described, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19), this word: "After many, many births of philosophical speculation or personal endeavor to understand what is God, when he's actually wise, he surrenders unto Me." And it is said next line, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ: (BG 7.19) "Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa, is everything." When he understands this, then his knowledge is perfect. But such kind of mahātmā, great soul, is very rare to be seen." (French)

Jyotirmayī: So she said that in..., it is also explained that those who are not intelligent enough to study, or who are out of caste, so they cannot, they don't have the right to study, then it is said that they can attain God directly by surrendering unto God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly. It does not require education, knowledge or anything. If he agrees to surrender to the lotus feet of God, then his life is perfect. That is stated in the Vedic literature, naradita yadi hari sthapasata tat kim (?). "If one has surrendered himself to the lotus feet of God and worshiped Him, there is no more need of austerity and penances." And naradita yadi hari sthapasata tat kim (?). "If one has not learned how to surrender to God and worship Him, then all his austerities, knowledge, are useless." Antar-bahiḥ yadi hari sthapasata tat kim (?), "If one can see God within and outside, then where is the necessity of austerity?" And naradita..., nan tad yadi bahi hari sthapasata tat (?), "If one has not learned to see God within and without, then where is the value of his austerity and penances?" Therefore God realization is the only business of the human being. (French)

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: (Translating) Well, first you said that, first we must learn about God and then we will know how to pray to God, but now you say that if one surrenders to God, one has no need to learn about Him first.

Prabhupāda: But unless one... We say, "Unless you have learned what is God." That means you have to learn God. Then religion... Religion means... What does he say?

Yogeśvara: He says, "But God reveals Himself to us."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is fact. If you are actually devotee, then God will reveal. That is... That is stated in the Vedic language, ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ: (Brs. 1.2.234) "You cannot understand the form, name, attributes, pastimes of God by these blunt senses." These senses, present (the ten) senses, cannot realize. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ. Indriya means sense. Then how to realize? Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. When you begin service with your tongue, then gradually God reveals. So tongue means you can do two business with the tongue. One is talking, and one is eating. So if you engage your tongue in glorifying God, and if you eat God's prasādam, then you realize God. Therefore these young boys and girls from Europe and America, they have been, they are being taught, "Use the tongue for Kṛṣṇa. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and eat Kṛṣṇa prasādam." And as practical result, although they are very young, still, they have realized God, Kṛṣṇa, far advanced than anyone else. They have forgotten all material things: illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication, gambling. They are simply devoted in the service of Kṛṣṇa. So because they have engaged their tongue in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, they have forgotten all kinds of intoxication, meat-eating. The American Government spent millions of dollars to stop their LSD habit. They could not stop even one man. But as soon as they come to Kṛṣṇa conscious, immediately give up. (French)

Jyotirmayī: They say they are very glad for all of this.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

American Man: If they wish to call it Jesus Christ, they can call it...

Prabhupāda: No, we, we, we also say that. We are all life, and God is the supreme life. That's all.

American Man: God, for me, is a word. It's a word which no one can understand, which no one can say what is God.

Prabhupāda: Simply you understand.

American Man: I understand the light.

Prabhupāda: No, no, you understand. You say, "God is word." That means you understand God.

American Man: No.

Prabhupāda: Then why do you say, "God is word"?

American Man: I say God cannot be explained with words.

Prabhupāda: No, no, why do you say? If you do not know God, how do you say like that?

American Man: Because I...

Prabhupāda: If you do not know the subject matter... You say that "God is not knowable," then how can you speak of God?

American Man: I do not speak of God.

Prabhupāda: No, you are speaking that "God is word." You say, "God is word."

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No, you are speaking that "God is word." You say, "God is word."

American Man: No, I say God is only a word, and that's why I cannot speak of God, because it's a word and it cannot explain.

Prabhupāda: But you have got this word. Why you speak all these contradictory things?

American Man: No. I say that I cannot speak of God because it is a word...

Prabhupāda: That means you do not know what is God. First of all accept.

American Man: It is light. I speak of the light.

Prabhupāda: Then, then you know God. You say either way, that you know... Sometimes you say you do not know; sometimes you say you know.

American Man: No, no, no.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhagavān: Sometimes you say you know the light. That means you know God. For you, God is light.

American Man: If you wish to call it "God..." No, no, no, no. I say it once. I will say it once and once only.

Prabhupāda: Now, now, you say that God is light.

American Man: So we'll understand.

Prabhupāda: Do you say, "God is light"?

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Then you do not know God. You accept one position.

American Man: I say there is light.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But you do not know whether light is God.

American Man: What is God? Explain to me what is God.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Talk with him. He'll simply waste my time.

American Man: If you can explain to me what is God, I would appreciate it.

Prabhupāda: Just go and take him. You go and he'll explain to you, please.

American Man: He cannot explain to me.

Prabhupāda: Then you go away. Please. What can I do?

American Man: It's as you wish.

Prabhupāda: I cannot waste.

American Man: If you cannot explain to me what is God... I speak of light, so...

Prabhupāda: But you know everything. What can I explain? You know everything.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is very fortunate to see so many big men at a time. So we were also talking to this doctor about this philosophy, how human civilization should be conducted. I was explaining to Professor that at the present moment, not at the present moment, always in this material world, we do not know what is the goal of life. We have got different philosophies, different mode of life, because we do not know what is the goal of life. If the goal of life is... (break) ...then everything is solved. Now it is very good fortune that you are all present. What is the goal of life? That is my submission. Human life is there, human intelligence is there. So what is the goal of life to achieve? The goal of life cannot be different. That is one. That is, we take from Vedic literature, this goal of life is to understand what is God. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). (aside:) That is one. You serve it out. So we are missing the point, that we do not know what is the goal of life. Different persons, different philosophers, they have got different proposition of the goal of life. Similarly, different politician also. But we think the goal of life is one, to understand God. Then everything is solved. Self-realization. (pause) And we are writing all these books. These books will be finished in eighty volumes. And already we have published fourteen volumes only. And small books also, many, about two dozen. But our only writing is the goal of life, Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest: Under many influences.

Prabhupāda: No, influence should be only Kṛṣṇa or God. Kṛṣṇa, when we speak of Kṛṣṇa, God, but they have no clear idea what is God. How does He speak, how does He act. Where does He live. What is His form. What is his color. Nobody knows. Ask any religious people, "Do you know about all these?" (tape too faint to hear) (indistinct) If they think about it at all. First of all, generally they think of something impersonal or void. The Buddhists they think God is zero. And others they think God has no form. So, two classes. The Hindus they think God has not particular form, (indistinct). And you can imagine any of them(?) That is Śaṅkara. The pañcopāsanā. But still Śaṅkara is very careful. He has given five particular forms—the Goddess Durgā, Lord Viṣṇu, Lord Siva, the sun. Therefore there are sections—the sun worshipers, the fire worshipers. Originally, (indistinct). That is Vedic culture. Their Vedic culture means many demigods. But the original God is accepted, Viṣṇu. And original to Viṣṇu is Kṛṣṇa. īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Kṛṣṇa also says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). "There is no superior form or authority than Me." That is confirmed by Lord Brahmā, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇah (Bs. 5.1). Kṛṣṇa is controller. There are different grades of controller but the supreme controller is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says mām ekam, "Unto Me, no one else." Now our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to convince people to give Him our attention, therefore we have published so many books only about Kṛṣṇa. On every page you'll find Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa. Either in Kṛṣṇa Book or in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, or in the Bhāgavatam or in Nectar of Devotion, Teachings of Lord Caitanya. The word(?) is Kṛṣṇa, that is simply explained in the (indistinct).

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: What these theologicians think about God? It is already 1,500 months' substance to read. What they will discover? Teeny discovery? We have already stock for 1,500 years' understanding. So what we have to understand from them? (break) ...anādir ananta-rūpam. This is only for Kṛṣṇa. But Kṛṣṇa has got expansions—unlimited. Advaita, acyuta, ananta. Ananta means unlimited. God, His one feature is Kṛṣṇa, and He has unlimited features. If a gentleman simply reads the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam quietly at home, he will be fully conversant, fully aware of what is God. Just like a scholar. He is not limited in one university or in one book. He reads various books to understand the subject matter of his research. Similarly, those who are actually serious about understanding God, they should not stick only to a particular scripture. They should read all others where the information of God is there. Just like we sometimes quote from Bible, but the Christians, they cannot quote from Bhagavad-gītā or Bhāgavata. They cannot do that. But they do not read. Even they do not read fully their Bible.

Professor Durckheim: No, they don't.

Prabhupāda: Just see. And still, they want to be masters of understanding God. I have seen many scholars in the western countries. They are well known as Sanskrit scholar. But they cannot quote even a verse.

Professor Durckheim: I see. Well, it's a pity. Sanskrit scholars...

Prabhupāda: Yes. But I understand in Germany there are many Sanskrit scholars.

Professor Durckheim: It seems so.

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: And they do not see the natural dog is barking. Artificial, they pay ten dollars ticket and see how a man is barking like a dog. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa. You, at least, introduce in your country: "Chant Christ's name and stop animal killing." This is from Bible. This is not that I am asking. Bible says, "Thou shall not kill, and glorify the name of God."

Guest (1): Ahiṁsā.

Prabhupāda: Just in the beginning Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." That is the beginning of religious life. The animal killers cannot understand what is God. It is not possible. There is a statement in the Bhāgavata, viṇa paśughnat.

nivṛtta tarṣair upagīyamānād

bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt

ka uttamaśloka guṇānuvādāt

pumān virajyeta vinā paśughnāt

(SB 10.1.4)

"Who can remain aloof from the chanting of the holy name of God unless he's an animal killer?" Yes. Animal killers cannot understand what is God, what is God's name. That's not possible. (pause) Kṛṣṇa, what to speak of killing animal, He was embracing animal every morning, every... Yes. He was embracing.

Haṁsadūta: But Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: Don't come near. (German translation)

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Answer. What the answer?

Umāpati (?): Prabhupāda didn't understand, accepting him in German.

Prabhupāda: No no. The answer I gave, you do not remember?

Umāpati: Because they are intelligent.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Any intelligent man will understand what is religion, what is God, in five minutes. It doesn't require even five hours. In five minutes.

Pater Emmanuel: Yes, I understand.

Prabhupāda: But we do not want to understand. That is the difficulty. Yes?

Guest: (German)

German devotee: He believes that to understand God is not a question of intelligence but it is a question of humility.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "The humble and meek shall go to the kingdom of God." Is it not? It is Bible statement?

Haṁsadūta: "The humble and meek shall inherit the earth."

Reporters Interview -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: All right. So there cannot be... but for particular reason or circumstances we call it, but religion is one. That means to abide by the laws of God. That is religion. If you do not know what is God, what is His law, that is another thing. But the religion means to abide by the laws of God, that's all. It cannot be Hindu, Muslim, Christian. Just like the state law. So there are many persons, citizens of the state. The law is not that it is for the Christians, it is for the Jews, it is for the Negroes, it is for the white man. It is not like that. Law is the same for everyone. You can call it, "This is Negro law, this is white law, this is black law..." No. That is not very scientific. Scientific is that God is there and we are all... God is great, we are all subordinates and we have to obey the orders of God. That is religion. Am I right or wrong?

Guest (2): You're right.

Prabhupāda: Therefore you cannot say, "Christian religion, Hindu religion, Muslim religion." Religion is religion. That's... God is neither Hindu, Muslim, Christian. God is God. God is one. We... It may be that God is one, but we understand Him from different angles of vision, and that different angles of vision may be called as Christian angle vision, the Hindu angle vision, this Jew's angle vision. But that is angle of vision. Now, just like the sun is there. Here we see it is not so bright, but you ask some Arabian friend. What is, he will say, "it is very bright." So his appreciation of the sun is different from your appreciation here. It is cloudy; it is misty. But the sun is the same. There is no such thing as Hindu religion, Muslim religion, Christian religion. It is all sophisticated. Religion is one. You must know what is God, and you must know what is order and abide by it. You are religious. That's all. We are preaching that.

Reporters Interview -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: What do you think? What is your opinion?

Guest (3): I can't say.

Prabhupāda: Then if I say, "yes," then what you will understand? If you are not yourself expert, then even if I say, "Yes, I am God realized," how you will take it as truth? If you do not know what is God realization, then how you can ask this question and how you will be satisfied by the answer? You do not know.

Guest (3): Well, what is God realization?

Prabhupāda: Then... Then you were asking, "Are you God realized?" If I say, "Yes," then how you'll believe it? You do not know what is God realization. Then why do you put this question? You do not know yourself. If I say,"Yes," how you'll understand that I am right? Therefore you should not put all these questions. It has no value. You do not know yourself what is God realization. Now, just like a medical man, if he asks another man, medical man, so if he says, "Yes," then medical man will understand him by technical terms whether he is medical man. So unless one is medical man, what is the use of asking another man, "Are you medical man?" Unless you are prepared to take the answer whatever I give. Are you prepared?

Guest (3): Yes.

Prabhupāda: Then it is all right. I am. I am seeing God every moment. So unless we are prepared to take the answer, we should not put ourself...

Reporters Interview -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes, meditation is also one means, but you cannot meditate now because you do not know what is God. How you will meditate? Meditation upon something, but if you do not know what is God, upon whom you'll meditate? First of all you must know. Just like we know God, Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ: "Always think of Me." This is meditation. So we meditate upon Kṛṣṇa, so that is perfect meditation because meditation means to think of God. But if you do not know what is God, how you will think of Him?

Guest (2): It is written in many scriptures that God is light.

Prabhupāda: God is everything. God is darkness also. We say, "God is that from whom everything comes." So light also comes; darkness also comes. So darkness also comes from God.

Guest (3): Do you think meditation is a way to see God inside yourself?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the description of meditation. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). The yogis, by their mind concentrating upon God, they try to see Him. So you must know what is God. Just like our institution, they know what is God, description of God. They can think of God. But if you have no idea of God, how you'll think of Him?

Reporters Interview -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: It is possible at any time provided people take to spiritual life, but they'll not take to it. For example, one of the items of spiritual life is no meat-eating. So do you think this philosophy will be taken by everyone? And this is one of the items of spiritual life, no meat-eating.

Guest (2): Is that a necessary...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Without... If you don't stop meat-eating, you cannot understand what is spiritual life. A sinful life cannot understand what is God, what is devotion. It is not possible.

Guest (2): And is that the same for others...?

Prabhupāda: The sinful, yes. Four items we prohibit our students. They do not indulge. Illicit sex life, meat, fish, egg-eating, intoxication up to cigarette smoking, drinking tea, coffee, and gambling. These are the four pillars of sinful life. So unless one gives up these four things he cannot understand what is God, what is God's kingdom, what is our business. Nobody can understand.

Guest (2): Drinking tea and coffee also?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. It is also intoxication.

Guest (3): Your Divine Grace, in a lot of scriptures I read there is a lot of references to breath and the breath as being the...

Prabhupāda: Breathing.

Guest (3): Breathing...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Next stage. "What is God? I am God." Then?

Cāru: "And in the bodies of others and blasphemes against the real religion."

tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān

saṁsāreṣu narādhamān

kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān

āsurīṣv eva yoniṣu

(BG 16.19)

"Those who are envious and mischievous, who are the lowest among men, are cast by Me into the ocean of material existence, into various demoniac species of life."

āsurīṁ yonim āpannā

mūḍhā janmani janmani

mām aprāpyaiva kaunteya

tato yānty adhamāṁ gatim

(BG 16.20)

"Attaining repeated birth amongst the species of demoniac life, such persons can never approach Me. Gradually they sink down to the most abominable type of existence."

Morning Walk -- July 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Cheat means that I am exploiting you. I am saying that I am creating you a religious, but you are most sinful. I am creating a most sinful. That is cheating.

Guru-kṛpa: Giving something under false pretensions.

Prabhupāda: That's all. You are taking something else while thinking something else. That is cheating. Actually, we see the so-called religious system... Religion means to become lover of God. But who is lover of God? Do not know what is God, and what to speak of love Him. They do not know, have no clear conception of God even.

Jayatīrtha: They are lovers of dog.

Prabhupāda: And actually they are lovers of dog. And still, he's professing "I am religious." This is not cheating.

Hṛdayānanda: Yes, it's cheating. Imposter.

Prabhupāda: Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Unless one becomes a devotee of God, there is no question of religion. It is all cheating. By opening hospital, schools,... There are thousands upon thousands upon thousands upon thousands of years, the hospitals and schools are being opened, philanthropy. What is the result?

Bali Mardana: Atom bombs.

Prabhupāda: Atom bomb. Result is atom bomb.

Hṛdayānanda: You're the only one, Prabhupāda, who dares to criticize hospitals and schools. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes, so many people came to request me... Even Dr. Ghosh. Eh? You know.

Room Conversations -- September 10, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Everything is there; simply we have to learn how to utilize it. Our Acyutānanda Swami has written that introduction, he's realizing (indistinct). This Kṛṣṇa consciousness means the life of realization, self-realization, what I am. As Sanātana Gosvāmī presented himself (indistinct), "What I am?" (break)

But if you remain diseased, then just like I have got this disease, no appetite. First-class things are being made—nothing is giving me any taste. Disease is there. Therefore, if you want to taste what is God, then you first of all try to cure your disease. Our disease, material disease is the lusty desire. Lusty desire is so strong that you will find it is existing amongst the so-called religionists performing religious rituals. But the same disease is there, that "If I execute the rituals, then I shall be promoted to the heavenly kingdom (indistinct)." Similarly, the so-called monist philosophers, meditation, this, that, the disease is there: "I shall become God." Similarly, the yogis, they can perform so many gymnastics, but the disease is there. The disease is cured when he is a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-bhakta niṣkāma, ataeva 'śānta' (CC Madhya 19.149). By kṛṣṇa-bhakti, you cure the disease. Hṛd-rogaḥ kāmam apahinoty acireṇa dhīraḥ. This is the only... Unless you have cured your material disease, you have to remain in this material world in any form and fulfill your material desire. The ant is also trying and Lord Brahmā is also trying. Hṛd-rogam. (break) He cannot sit down peacefully. At any moment, (indistinct). Padaṁ padaṁ vipadām. The material world means in every step there is danger. Every step. However you step... (end)

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: Just like we are sitting, ladies and gentlemen here. So every one of us, we have got different dress. The dress is superficial, but as ladies and gentlemen, human being, we are one. Similarly, each one of us can have a different dress. So these living entities, they are in different dresses only, and the dresses are calculated-8,400,000 different forms. In the water there are 900,000 different dresses. Similarly, the trees and plants, the two million different types of vegetables. Jalaja-nava-lakṣāni sthavara-lakṣa-viṁśati. There are insects. There are 1,100,000 species. Similarly birds, there are one million. And Pakṣiṇāṁ daśalakṣanam. Daśa-lakṣa means one million, one million types of bird. And three million types of beasts. And 400,000 forms of human being. In this way the living entity is passing through different dresses. And the best dress is this human form because in this dress you can understand what is God, what you are, what is your relation with God, and then you can act and go back to home, back to Godhead. Therefore if this dress, in this dress... I am living being; you are living being. So we are in this human form of dress. We have got developed consciousness. If we miss the opportunity to understand God, then again we are put into the cycle of this evolutionary process. We should not therefore misuse this form like other forms. We should utilize it properly to understand the unlimited God and our relationship with God and act accordingly. That is perfection of life.

Room Conversation with Psychiatrist -- February 22, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: So brāhmaṇa means one who knows Brahmān, the soul. This qualification required. Just like to become a lawyer, one must be graduate. Similarly, one must have first of all be trained up as brāhmaṇa. Then he can understand what is God, what is soul. So there is no such training college. Therefore they cannot understand what is God, what is soul. That is required. Then your problems will be solved. (end)

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, every country, every country. Now, just like you are highly educated. Your country could not give you service. You are coming here. And that is śūdra. One who cannot live independently, he is śūdra. Paricaryātmakaṁ karyaṁ śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In this age, everyone is practically śūdra, because nobody can live independently. So we are producing mass śūdras. Therefore it is in chaotic condition. The Communist is the last word of the śūdras. The Communist philosophy is that "We are worker. We have all the power. We must have all the power." And that they are doing. And because they do not want to obey any authority, therefore they are denying existence of God. This is the tendency of the modern society. Not only they do not know what is God, and they are trying to disobey the orders of God. So practically there is no religion. And without religion human society is animal society. Dharmeṇa hīnā pasubhiḥ samānāḥ. "Human being without any ideas of religion, God, he is no better than animal." That is the difference between animal and human being. Animal eats, we eat; animal sleeps, we sleep; animal have sexual intercourse, we have; animal also defends, we also defend. These are common features. And what is the special feature? The special feature of human being—that he can understand what is God. So if he does not understand God, he is animal, because the distinction between animal and man is being avoided. So far other activities are concerned, they are the same as of human being and as of animal. But what is the distinction? The distinction is that in the human society there is an endeavor to understand God, and the animal society, there is no such endeavor. So when the so-called human society becomes devoid of God consciousness, it is animal society. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for raising the human society to the real platform of human society, not to keep them in the animal platform. Try to understand God and love Him. This is the substance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So, yes?

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- March 13, 1975, Tehran:

Paramahaṁsa: In Delhi, yes. That will be nice.

Prabhupāda: And who is thinking in that way...? We are thinking like that. Keep it covered.

Paramahaṁsa: On the table there?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (Child talking and Prabhupāda says something in Hindi) Dr. Ghora (?), you can say. The aim should be saṁsiddhiḥ hari-toṣaṇam. But if we don't care for this proposition... They do not know what is God, neither we don't want to satisfy Him, "He may be satisfied or not satisfied. Let us go on with our business." (Hindu)

Indian man (1): A lot of dangers will be there. We'll be putting ourself into trouble.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are in trouble. Even last war, when the trouble was too much, they began to go to the church. Even Churchill. And one gentleman—he is my Godbrother in Germany—he told me, after this war many German men and women became atheist. Everyone went to the church and prayed. Especially women prayed for return of their husband, brother, father. And nobody returned. So they thought, "There is no God. So forget about all these things." People became atheist. So this risky civilization is going on. They don't want to know what is God, neither they want to satisfy Him. And our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is just the opposite, that "Here is God. You satisfy Him." That's all. "Never mind what you are, but by your occupational duty you satisfy Him. That is perfection." This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And this is taught in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa ultimately said this: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). In the beginning He said, yat karoṣi yat juhoṣi yad aśnāsi yat tapasyasi kuruṣva tad mad arpaṇam: (BG 9.27)

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: No. The influence should be only Kṛṣṇa, or God. Kṛṣṇa, when we speak of "Kṛṣṇa"—God. But they have no clear idea what is God. How does He speak, how does He act, where does He live, what is His form, what is His qualities—nobody knows. Ask any religious people, "Do you know about all this, about God?" They do not know. What do you think, Atreya? Have they any clear conception of God? They imagine something. If they think of God at all... First of all, generally they think of impersonal or void. Just like the Buddhists. They think God is zero. And others, they think that God has no form. The two classes. The Hindus they think, "Yes, God has no particular form, but He has got many forms. And you can imagine any one of them." That is Śaṅkara, the pañcopāsana. But still, Śaṅkara is very careful. He has given five particular forms. The goddess Durgā, Lord Viṣṇu, Lord Śiva, the sun, then... Therefore there are a section who are the sun worshiper, or fire worshiper. Original Iranians were like that. So that is Vedic culture. There... Vedic culture means there are many demigods, but the original God is accepted-Viṣṇu. And original to Viṣṇu is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). And Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "There is no more superior form or superior authority than Me." And that is confirmed by Lord Brahmā. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Īśvaraḥ means controller. There are different grades of controller, but the supreme controller is Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekam: "Unto Me alone." (to devotee:) What is that?

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Servant. God is supreme, we are all subordinate. God is maintaining us just like father maintains. So it is the duty of the son to be obedient to the father, to act according to his order. Then everything is perfect. At the present moment on account of this bodily concept of life every one of us thinking nationality and duty of nation, duty of the community, duty of the family, so many duties. But actually we, being spiritual, our only duty is to serve God. We are serving; everyone is serving. That is our constitutional position, to serve. But at the present moment we are serving māyā, illusion, and we have to be trained up to serve the Supreme Being. Then our life is perfect. (break) ...at the present moment, although there are many religious system, they have no clear conception of God, although religion means to approach God. There is no religion throughout the whole world which is not connected with the word God. So religion means to understand God. But if we have no clear conception of God, then the religion is defective. Do you admit it or not? Religion means to understand God or God's laws. That is religion. But if we do not understand what is God, then that religion is also defective. So far our position is, we are approaching directly God through His agent, and our conception of God is there in the temple worship or our working for God. But we have got no vague idea of God. We have got complete idea: Kṛṣṇa. You want to speak anything?

Young man: What is the Kṛṣṇa conscious outlook on other world religions?

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: They have got simply an idea that there is God, but what is that God, they have no clear conception. Just like I asked, "What is the conception of God in Islam?" You could not give us. You simply described some of His activities.

Young man: That's true.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Young man: All the religions that have been taught to me have not given me a clear view of God, a clear concept. They didn't seem to know it themself.

Prabhupāda: No, concept is there as you told me: "The God has made human being after His own image." Then we can get the idea that God is a person like a human being, He has got two hands, two legs, one head, because after His image we have been... Now, if we study ourself and increase that quality... Just like I am. I can eat. I can eat a certain amount of foodstuff, but God can also eat, but He can eat the whole universe. So eating is there. But the difference of eating is there also. I can create one airplane, but God has created very, very big airplanes like these planets, and they are floating in the sky without any power crisis. That is God's creation. Here we are floating the airplane or running the car with the power, petrol, given by God. You cannot manufacture petrol. Just like in your country there is enough stock of petrol. But you have not created it. So who has created? Your creative power is to drill and get the stock. So much creative power you have got. But you cannot create petrol. Then the Americans would not have come here to beg petrol. That is the difference. You can create something by the ingredients given by God. You can create this table. Because wood is given by God, the instrument is given by God, and the intelligence given by God, the hand is given by God, so in this way you create the table. Then whose property it will be, your property or God's property? Whose property? If I give you wood, instrument, your salary, and you create something, the ultimately the thing created, to whom it should belong? To you or to me?

Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: Blind men. Therefore this fact is summarized in the Bhagavad-gītā in the words,

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

māyayāpahṛta jñānā

āsuri-bhāvam āśritāḥ

(BG 7.15)

Because they have denied the existence of God, therefore they are blind and they are engaged in sinful activities without knowing what is going to happen next in his life. Therefore mūḍha, rascal. And narādhamāḥ. Narādhamāḥ means lowest of the mankind, because in the human form of life one could understand what is God, but he is misusing his intelligence for something else, narādhamāḥ. But if you say, "They are educated. They have got so much education. Why do you condemn them?" then the answer is māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. This so-called knowledge they have acquired, that means māyā has made them more foolish. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says,

jaḍa-vidyā sab, māyāra vaibhava,

jībake karaye gāḍhā

He has said like that, that so far advancement of material education means that so-called educated man is becoming more, more, more an ass. Why?

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prajāpati: Practically all the theologians are aligned with one denomination or another, and they're like company men to the big churches, and they're afraid of admitting they do not know about God because they're afraid somebody will leave their camp and come to ours. We say we know about God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We say frankly that we know God, His father's name, His address, everything. Let anyone come and challenge. He cannot say that "No, this is not God," because he has not approached God. He does not know what is God. How he can challenge us that "This is not God"? Suppose we are presenting Kṛṣṇa as God, so how anyone can challenge? Because he has not approached God. He is simply speculating.

Prajāpati: And not even on his own. He's simply approaching other speculators.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Prajāpati: One speculator simply approaches other speculators.

Prabhupāda: So how they can say, "This is not God"? Is it possible to say? We say, "Here is Kṛṣṇa, God." Why not discuss this point for our preaching work. Call all the sannyāsīs.

Śrutakīrti: Call the sannyāsīs?

Prabhupāda: Hm. (break) Theologician. You know?

Śrutakīrti: He's theologian?

Prabhupāda: You know?

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Hm. (break) Theologician. You know?

Śrutakīrti: He's theologian?

Prabhupāda: You know?

Acyutānanda: No, I didn't know.

Prabhupāda: He's theologician. Now you discuss with him whether by theological arguments one can approach or understand what is God.

Jayapatāka: Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Sit down straight. Otherwise feel sleepy.

Jayapatāka: Myself and Gopāla Kṛṣṇa were just going to Krishnanagara to see that attorney for that...

Prabhupāda: Oh, all right.

Śrutakīrti: Others will be coming.

Jayapatāka: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa and...

Acyutānanda: Theology or Theosophy?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Acyutānanda: Theosophy?

Prabhupāda: No, theology.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pañcadraviḍa: So by definition...

Prajāpati: Not precisely. The word theology comes from the word logos. Theologos. And logos, in this sense, means the word of God. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Now, the words of God, that means one must know what is God. Otherwise how he can know this is the word of God? What is the answer by the theologian?

Prajāpati: The word of God is that a man is known by his works, his fruits. If he is a godly man...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Unless you know what is God, how you can accept this is the word of God? Just like you say, "Prabhupāda says." You take it, accept it: "Oh, Prabhupāda said." But you know what is Prabhupāda.

Prajāpati: So in...

Prabhupāda: It is not a fiction.

Prajāpati: In theological circles, yes, they are accepting great authorities like Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, Martin Luther, as well as the śāstra, the Bible itself.

Acyutānanda: But Martin Luther and St. Augustine are opposed.

Prajāpati: Yes, there're many opposed in many different ways.

Acyutānanda: Then the authority is...

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prajāpati: Their answer to such a challenge will be: "You please go across the street to the study of Hinduism."

Acyutānanda: "No, you said theology. God is not a Christian God."

Prajāpati: But they're not interested. They only want to hear the Christian point of view. And for them, "Christian" doesn't mean Bible; it means their own...

Acyutānanda: That's Prabhupāda's first thing—what is God? Is it the Christian God? What is God? What is your definition of God? Is He a Christian God or pure?

Prabhupāda: No, the... The... First of all, this should be established, whether God can be Christian God or Hindu God or Muslim God? Is God to be designated like that? God is one, so how there is one God? If Christian has got separate God, a Hindu has got separate god, Muslim has got separate God, then how God is one?

Prajāpati: Their answer would be: "We cannot talk about God. We can simply talk about the Christian tradition of God, or the..."

Prabhupāda: Now, again you come to the Christian God.

Acyutānanda: Then your knowledge is limited.

Prabhupāda: Then... Either Christian tradition... Then it becomes bound up by the Christian ideas.

Prajāpati: And that is exactly the situation today.

Evening Discussion -- May 6, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: In this connection you have quoted Lord Brahmā, saying that... Lord Brahmā says that the great material scientists, they may be able to calculate the atomic structure of the material world and the planetary system, but even if Kṛṣṇa is standing right in front of them, they can't calculate His potencies.

Prabhupāda: Vivekananda liked to say, he challenged Ramakrishna, "Can you show me God?" He said, "Yes," and he showed him God and then he became disciple.

Paramahaṁsa: They're saying that this Bal Yogeshwara, people ask him "Can you show what is God," and he says, "Oh, yes," then he shows them.

Prabhupāda: Where he is now, this Bal Yogeshwara?

Paramahaṁsa: I don't know where he is. There was one article about him recently, but they didn't say where he was. I think he was rejected. Maybe he is trying to start his own movement. But as far as his Divine Light Mission, he is kicked out.

Prabhupāda: Kicked out by whom? By mother.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes, mother.

Prabhupāda: Mother is authority.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Room Conversation with Kim Cornish -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: It requires elucidation. "Complete whole" means, just like your body is complete whole, and there are so many other things, there are so many holes in the body, there are so many hairs on the body, there are so many hairs on the head, so many fingers, eyes, ears—so many things—but the body is a complete unit, working as a complete machine. And there are so many things. Similarly, the whole cosmos is complete, exactly like this body is a machine. Similarly the whole cosmos is a big machine. It is complete. One sun is there and keeping everything complete. The day and night, the seasonal changes, the equator, the temperature, the moonlight, the other planets, we living beings, the vegetables—everything is complete by God. And because the sun is there. Similarly, this body, machine, is complete. And the soul is there, it is working nicely. The body is also a creation, and the universe is also a creation, and the brain which has created these things, He is complete. Therefore He has created these complete units. That is the idea. Pūrṇam idaṁ (Iso Invocation). Pūrṇaḥ means complete. And because He is complete, the Creator, He has no defect; therefore He can create everything complete. Pūrṇam idaṁ, pūrṇam adaḥ, pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate. And He is so complete that pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya, from the complete, if you take the whole complete, still He is complete. Here is a glass of water; I am drinking. Drinking part by part. And when it is finished, the water is finished, no more complete. But He is so complete, that just like the sun, the temperature is being distributed for million and millions of years, still it is full of temperature. Here, unless the electric power is there, it is not complete. But there is power in the sunshine. It is a reservoir of so much temperature and light, that in history millions and millions of years it is distributing, the seasonal changes are going on, the green foliage is coming again, the snow and rain is coming, so many things are going on account of temperature. Any machine is rolling, just like as soon as there is power the machine is rolling. In all machines, your bodily machine, my bodily machine, and electric machines and other powered machines—everything is going on. Pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate. And in spite of taking so much energy from the sun, it is still full of light and energy. This is one of the creations of the Supreme. Now how much perfect is the Supreme? Its one of the creations, sun, is maintaining the whole universe. And there are many millions of universes, and each of them has got a sun to conduct the business. And all these suns are created by somebody. How much complete He is? You can just imagine. That is God. God is not such a cheap thing. People become God, "I am God." You are a nonsense rascal. What you can do? These are bluff. They do not know what is God.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: You have no idea of God.

Carol: No. I don't think...

Prabhupāda: He must be person. As soon as you say "He knows everything," "He creates," and so many other things, then these are all personal. You say "He." "He." These are all personal.

Carol: This in only our idea of God though, not necessarily...

Prabhupāda: That means you have no clear idea of God. You have vague idea. So you have to learn what is God.

Carol: You think you can know the nature of God?

Amogha: She says do you think you can know the nature of God?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You can know also.

Carol: In an intellectual way?

Prabhupāda: You can know also.

Carol: You might know something in your heart but not be able to express it.

Prabhupāda: Why not express it? You can express it. If whatever is within your heart, if you cannot express, then you are not perfect. You must express what is within your heart very clearly. Not that I have got something within my heart and I cannot express. That means my knowledge is imperfect.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: I don't think. (laughter)

Carol: To want to and to do it is different.

Prabhupāda: No, unless you are fully aware of my abilities, qualities, why should you surrender? (indistinct) So, before surrendering, one has to study the person where he is going to surrender. Then he surrenders. That is real surrender. And blindly surrender, that will not stay. So, our first business is to surrender to God; therefore we must know what is God. Then you must surrender. And, the emotion is good. That means you are advanced. If you understand that God is giving us everything. So, that emotion is very good. If one from the very beginning becomes emotional, "Oh, God is so kind. God is so great, that He is giving us everything, our necessities. I must serve Him." This emotion is very good. But for ordinary man, this emotion does not come. He wants to study what is God. Then when he fully understands, "Oh, God is so great." Then that emotion is very nice. That is genuine emotion. Otherwise emotion is sentiment. That will not stay. That will not endure. It is temporary.

Carol: Would the intellect be helpful in knowing God?

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless you have got the necessary intellect, then you are no better than the animals. The animals have no intellect to understand God, but the human being has got that intellect. That is the distinction between animal and human being. (break) Sleeping, the human being also sleeps; they also sleep. Then sex enjoyment: the human being also enjoy, and the animals also enjoy. And protection from fear or becoming fearful—the human being is also fearful and arranges for protection, and the animal also does. So far the primary necessities of life, that is equal in animal and human being. But the human being has a special intellect developed than the animals that he can understand what he is, what is God, what is this cosmic manifestation, and what is the aim of life, how we should conduct. These things are prerogatives for the human being. The animals have no such prerogative. So if we do not utilize these special intellectual activities, then we remain animal. We do not make any development. So at the present moment they are improving the method of primary necessities of life—eating, sleeping, mating and defending. They are thinking the dog is eating on the floor; if we can eat on table, chair and nice dish, that is advancement of civilization. They are thinking like that. The dog is sleeping on the floor, and if we sleep in very nice apartment, very decorated, that is advancement of civilization. The dog is having sexual intercourse on the street without any shame, and we are also coming to that point already. And if we have sex intercourse in the name of love and so on, so on, that is advancement. And dog is defending with his jaws and nails and teeth, you are defending with atomic bomb, therefore we are advanced. But they have forgotten that the human being has got this special intellect to understand God. That they are not doing. Just like you are going to be a doctor in anthropology. Is it not?

Carol: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Where is the sense of God there?

Carol: I only do it for a living. The other side of me is something...

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Everything is true. If you think it properly, you'll find it is all true. Bhagavad-gītā says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ: (BG 4.13) "By Me, the four divisions of human soceity are made." The most intelligent class, the brāhmaṇa, who knows the soul, God, etc., by their character, by their behavior. That is brāhmaṇa class. This is the most perfect way of keeping society. Unless there is a class which is very intelligent who know what is God, what is soul, then what is the civilization? Simply motorcar drivers? Is that civilization? Where is the brāhmaṇa? This is not civilization. Simply some artisans and workers, motorcar drivers, mill workers, where is civilized man, who knows God, who knows soul, who knows how to conduct the human society to the perfection? Where is that man? It is not civilization.

Paramahaṁsa: But we have philosophers and poets.

Prabhupāda: They are all loafer class. They have no information of the soul. They are studying in the dead matter, that's all. Freud and others, Darwin. What do they know?

Amogha: There are also so many priests and rabbis, the Pope.

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. (break) "No, no, Jesus Christ is son of God. He was... (break) If you don't worship him, you will go to hell." So they enquired, "What is that hell?" He began to... "It is very dark and moist and so on, so on..." They did not reply because they are working in the mine. So this is the position. This is the position. People are kept in so much darkness, they do not know what is hell, what is heaven, what is God, what is misery. They do not mind. They are accustomed to all these things. There is another story like that, a Bengali story. One man said, "Oh, you are drinking, you will go to hell." So he explained what is hell: "It is a miserable life." "My father also drinks." "Oh, he will also go to hell." "And my mother also drinks." "Oh, she will also go." In this way whole, the family. "Then where it is hell? It is heaven. Because the father is there, mother is there, brother is there. Everyone, we are going... So where is hell?" This is the... "Even in hell, if we are all there, then where it is hell? It is heaven."

Paramahaṁsa: People don't mind so much suffering if they can suffer with their friends.

Prabhupāda: No, no, they are suffering. They are accustomed to so many sufferings. They say they do not mind what is suffering.

Paramahaṁsa: Especially if they can bring their friends along. Then they're very happy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore it is heaven. Although there is suffering, it is heaven.

Paramahaṁsa: They think that suffering together with your friends is enjoying.

Room Conversation with Ganesa dasa's Mother and Sister -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: God is the Supreme Truth. So Supreme Truth cannot be Hebrew truth, Christian truth, Hindu truth. Truth is truth. Just like gold. Because gold is found in America, nobody says, "It is American gold." It is gold. So similarly, God is one. He is for Hebrew, He is for Hindu, He is for Muslim, He is for everyone. Simply we have to know what is God. So if you try to understand through Hebrew religion, that's all right. But if you come to know what is God, that is all right. Otherwise useless. If you cannot understand what is God, then Hebrew, Hindu, Muslim, Christian, these different names, they are useless. And if you understand God, then whatever method it is, it is all good.

Mother: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So first of all, whether the Hebrews, they do understand what is God? That is the point. You are asking about the Hebrews, so do you think that through the Hebrew method one can understand God?

Mother: I think one can understand God regardless of what religion you are.

Prabhupāda: Understand, but suppose... Are you Hebrew?

Mother: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So what is the nature of God? Can you explain?

Mother: No, I can't explain.

Room Conversation with Ganesa dasa's Mother and Sister -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Then what do you know about God? You do not know what is God.

Mother: I believe in God.

Prabhupāda: Believing, that is one thing. Believe in father. Everyone has got father. But if you do not know who is your father, what does he do, then that is not perfect knowledge. It is a fact: without father, nobody is born. So even your child has not seen who is her father, but it is a fact that there is a father. But she or he must know who is he, what is his nature, what does he do. And that is perfect knowledge. Simply to know "I have got a father" is not perfect knowledge. I must know who is that father, what does he do, where does he live. That is perfect knowledge. Otherwise it is assumed that every man has got a father. Without father, how you can come into existence? That's a fact. But if he does not know who is actually his father, that is imperfect knowledge. What do you think, the nature of God?

Sister: I think He's just something all-knowing, you know...

Prabhupāda: Old?

Gaṇeśa: All-knowing. All-knowledgeable.

Prabhupāda: All-knowledgeable.

Room Conversation with Alcohol and Drug Hospital People -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: The relationship—God is the creator of everything. So everything has got relationship with God. So what do you think of this science? The Vedānta-sūtra, it says, athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now this human life is meant for understanding the science of God." So the question is what is God? The answer is: janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). "God or the Supreme Absolute Truth is that from whom everything has come." So this is our science, the origin of everything.

Guest (3): Yes, the origin of everything. But why is it necessary for man to have to discover? I mean, man discovered the cure for poliomyelitis.

Prabhupāda: Why man discovers?

Guest (3): Yes, well, I'm using it as an example.

Prabhupāda: But he... Just like... It is not the question of discover, but because you are existing, you must have come from a father. That is science. It is not the question of finding out a father. Without father, there is no existence of you. It is not the question of finding out a father. Father must be there. This is science. Without father, is there any existence of any man or any animal? What your science says? Is it possible that anyone is existing without a father? What do you think?

Guest (4): I was just wondering, um, do you believe in...

Prabhupāda: Who is there independently existing without having a father? What is that science?

Guest (2): It's not necessarily in the science itself...

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Jesuit: No, I am all right thanks.

Prabhupāda: So people, either through Christianity or through any process, they must come to the understanding platform where we can understand what is God and how to love Him. That is required. Otherwise this human civilization will be spoiled.

Jesuit: And the great truth also that God loves every one of us.

Prabhupāda: God loves. That is natural, but you do not love, I do not love. That is the difficulty. Father loves the son; that is natural. But when the son does not love father that is a very precarious condition.

Jesuit: Good. Well, thank you very much.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa, jaya.

Jesuit: Thank you. We will pray for one another.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jesuit: God bless you. Goodbye everybody. (leaves.)

Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: You have got that canteloupe? No.

Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: In the civilized human society there is some system of religion. So that system of religion means try to understand God. Religion means the law given by God. So civilized human beings, they are trying to understand God and His laws. That is called religion. Now the difference between dog and me is that I can try to understand what is God, what is my position; the dog cannot understand. Dog means the animals. They cannot understand. So that is the difference between a human being and a dog. If we give up religion or the method to understand God and our relationship with Him, then we will remain dog. Then we remain dog. We are not human being. So at the present moment the so-called human society, civilized human society, is giving up the conception of God, understanding God, especially the Communist party. They are openly declaring that "We don't believe in God." But those who are not Communists, they, lip sympathy, they say that "Yes, we believe in God," but actually they do not believe.

So practically the entire human society is now becoming godless. That is very dangerous position. And we have already come to that dangerous position. There are so many problems, and recently we have heard that New York City, the most important city in the world, they are in a problem, that they cannot keep the city very nicely maintained and clean, and they asked for help, some millions of dollars, and the federal government has refused. In this way the godless society will have to meet so many problems of life, and if they want solution of all these problems, they must take to God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So that is our sum and substance of the movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. So we are trying to... It is very simple method. Anyone can accept it by chanting and dancing and eating. And if one does not like this method—he wants to understand the philosophy—we have got fifty books of four hundred pages, you can see all these books.

Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Validity... Any religion which is seeking after God, that is valid. If any religion does not obey God, does not know God, that is cheating. That is not religion. Yes.

Journalist: How would you say this godlessness is...

Prabhupāda: Godlessness is one does not know what is God. And just like you know me. You have come to me. You know I am a person, I am talking, I have written so many books. This is knowing me. Similarly, one must know what is God, what is His feature, what does He do, what does He teach, what law He gives. This is knowing God. Simply to understand, "Oh, well, that is God. Let Him remain at His place, and let me do whatever I like," that is not understanding of God. You must know God just like you must know your father. If you are interested with your father's property, then you must know your father, who is your father.

Journalist: How is this godlessness showing itself in our society?

Prabhupāda: Godlessness means foolishness because...

Journalist: Is liquor... Too much liquor and self-indulgence?

Prabhupāda: There are details. There are so many things. The total is rascaldom and foolishness. Godlessness means rascaldom and foolishness.

Journalist: Ras...? Ras...?

Morning Walk -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is transcendental, this microphone, because it is being used for Kṛṣṇa's purpose. The same flower, when you use it for sense gratification, it is material. The same flower when you offer to Kṛṣṇa, it is spiritual. The flower is not different, but by the different use it becomes material and spiritual. I think I have said many times that there is actually no material existence. Therefore it is called māyā. Māyā means it has no actual existence. We create an atmosphere. That is māyā. Atmosphere of forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa, that is māyā. Anartha. Anartha, unnecessary. Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam (SB 1.7.6). If this park is given to us, we can immediately make it Vaikuṇṭha. We know how to do it. But it is not given to us. The same electric energy is creating heater and cooler. For the cooler there is no different electric energy. And for the heater there is no different—the same electric. Similarly, the material and spiritual is coming from Kṛṣṇa's energy.

How Kṛṣṇa's energy can be material? That is spiritual. In Bhagavad-gītā it is said that "These material elements, they are also My energy." So how Kṛṣṇa's energy can be material? Bhinna, separated, a little separated, that's all. Separated means as soon as you separate Kṛṣṇa from anything, that is material. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So you have to dovetail everything with Kṛṣṇa. Then it will be spiritual. As soon as you say these demons they separate Kṛṣṇa, "What is Kṛṣṇa? What is God? We are scientist, we are technicians and so on, so on. We create our own thing." That means they don't dovetail with Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they are materialist. When we want to enjoy life without Kṛṣṇa, that is material. And Kṛṣṇa gives chance, "All right, you enjoy without Me." And when he is disgusted, then Kṛṣṇa comes once, "Now you have experienced. You haven't got happiness. Now give up this attitude to enjoy without Me." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam... (BG 18.66).

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, no. You take your mother's milk. You take your mother's milk, and when the mother cannot supply milk you kill her. What is this? Is that humanity? And nature is so strong, for this injustice, sinful, you must suffer. You must be prepared to suffer. So there will be war, and wholesale will be killed. Nature will not tolerate this. They do not know all these, how nature is working, how God is managing. They do not know God. This is the defect of the society. They do not care what is God. "We are scientists, we can do everything." What you can do? Can you stop death? Nature says, "You must die. You are Professor Einstein, that's all right. You must die." Why the Einstein and other scientists they do not discover medicine or process? "No, no, we shall not die." So this is the defect of the society. They are completely under the control of nature, and they are declaring independence. Ignorance. Ignorance. So we want to reform this.

Director: Well, I certainly wish you luck.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Director: I wish you luck.

Prabhupāda: Hm, thank you.

Director: As a public servant that you reform society as your life. To carry out the instrument of...

Prabhupāda: So kindly cooperate with us. This is... Try to learn the philosophy, and you will be surprised how nice philosophy it is.

Director: I'm quite sure.

Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone. Everyone who... That is the statement. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). This class of men, they do not recognize God. Who? Those who are sinful, rascals, lowest of the mankind. Such people do not recognize God. Mūḍhas. (indistinct) educated. No, that education means false education. Real education is taken away by māyā. Real education means to understand God. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). If one does not understand what is God, his education is useless. It has no meaning. What is that education? Will that education save him from death? Then what is the value of his education? Your real problem is birth, death, old age, and disease. Can this material education stop it? Is the scientist able to stop one's old age? And does anyone, man, any man, wants to become old? No, nobody wants. Everyone wants to keep himself youthful. But can the science stop this, that he will not become old? He must become old.

Then where is the education value? You cannot solve your problem, so what is the meaning of education? Education, knowledge, means you have solved your problems. They are trying to do that, temporary problem. But ultimate problem they cannot solve. Therefore the value of this education is useless. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). It is simply laboring after something, that's all.

Australian devotee 2: They say that the value of their education is that very soon they will be able to overcome birth, death, disease, and old age, that they almost have the solution. They are freezing people's bodies...

Prabhupāda: Therefore younger generation, they are not interested in education. They see that, after all, the life is vacant even after education.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But that requires faith. One who does not know what is God and what is protection, how he can take to it? He depends on his own energy. That is karmīs. He wants to happy by his own energy not only in this life but also next life, by acting very piously, wants to be promoted in the heavenly planets. That is fact. One can go. But that is on account of his own labor. But here the bhaktas, they are taken care of, the Supreme Lord. So just like child. He doesn't care how he will live comfortably. But the father takes care. That is the position of bhakta. The karmīs, they are taking care of themselves. But the devotees, they are taken care of by the Supreme. That is difference. What is that?

Jayatīrtha: This is the preliminary outline for the college course that Dr. Judah is going to be helping us with in Berkeley. This describes the basic purposes of the college and describes some of the courses that we'll be offering.

Prabhupāda: Our books?

Jayatīrtha: Yes, there's a course in each book.

Bahulāśva: This is what Dr. Judah belongs to, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Our endeavor is just to become a dog of a Vaiṣṇava, not to become an animal like lion. We remain a dog, but of a Vaiṣṇava. And we refuse to become a big animal like lion. This is our philosophy. Another song is Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's, janmaobi jadi icchā to hara, kīṭa-janma hau jaha das bhakta tuṅhara: "I do not know what is my next life. That depends on Your consideration. But if you think that I must take another birth or another many births, it doesn't matter. Only I request You that You make me an insignificant ant in the house of a devotee." Kīṭa-janma hau jaha das tuṅhara. This is Vaiṣṇava aspiration, that If become an ant under the protection of a Vaiṣṇava, that is also successful. And I don't want to become a Brahmā who is not a devotee." So this Vaiṣṇava philosophy is very accurate. Therefore this life of a Vaiṣṇava begins with surrender, not the challenge. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That is Vaiṣṇava. Christ also said that "Kingdom of God is for the humble and meek." Is it not? He never said it is for the lion and elephant. The material disease means we have challenged Kṛṣṇa, God, "Oh, what is God? We can live independently." And that is material scientist. They are trying to prove, "There is no God. We can create everything in the laboratory." And that is their foolishness.

Indian guest: Yeah, there are many, many atheist. I know that.

Prabhupāda: Their whole propaganda is atheism. Therefore we are not very favorably disposed, the so-called scientists. Their whole propaganda is how to prove there is no God. That is their only aim. I mean, people say that: Oh, now nobody is going to talk of God. Talk of science." They say like that. Is it not?

Satsvarūpa: Dr. Radhakrishnan said, "Religion won't be accepted unless it can be accepted in terms of science."

Prabhupāda: So, religion is not science? We are following blindly?

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is the way. That is the way because these ācāryas, these authorities, they are speaking about God. None of them speaking that "You become happy here," no, none of them. Either Christ or Caitanya or Mohammed, nobody has said. So according to the time, circumstances, position, either you follow any one of them as it suits you or, if you can make a comparative study, you follow the best one. So therefore, our conclusion is Kṛṣṇa is the best. He is God. Christ is son of God. So we don't differ son of God and God. That is all right. But when the father is speaking personally, he is speaking what the son has spoken plus something because he is more experienced. So take the father and follow him. That's all. Mohammed says he is servant of God. Christ says he is son of God. And Kṛṣṇa says, "I am God." So where is the difference? The son will say the same thing, the servant will say the same thing, and the father also will say the same thing. So theology means to know God and abide by His order. That is my understanding. And theology does not mean to make research who is God. That is theosophy. So if you are theologicians, then you must know what is God and abide by His order. What do you think, Dr. Judah?

Dr. Judah: Pardon?

Prabhupāda: What do you think this proposition?

Dr. Judah: Yes, well, I think you're quite right. I think that it is... Certainly, in our day and age many of us don't really know God.

Prabhupāda: Then he is not theologician. He is theosophist.

Dr. Judah: We know about God, but we do not know God. I would agree.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: And he will believe when he is arrested and given punishment by the government, then he will believe. The criminal may say, "Oh, don't care for the government." That does not mean there is no government. And as soon as he becomes a criminal, he is arrested and punished. Then he understands there is government. So you believe or not believe, there is government. Similarly, you believe or not believe, there is God.

Peter: O.K. You're saying then that God has a nature and...

Prabhupāda: First of all, there is God; you have to accept. Then you study what is God.

Peter: That we have a nature too, and if we go against our own nature...

Prabhupāda: That we have already explained, that you are nothing but a small fragment of God. So you can study God by studying yourself. Because you are small sample of God. There is no need of searching elsewhere. You study yourself, and you find God because you are the sample of God. So you study yourself, and you find God. God is nothing... He is exactly like you but very big. "God is great." You are small. So from small sample, you can understand what is the great.

Dr. Crossley: I think one of the things that Peter is saying, though, that I haven't really heard you address is that... He's not saying that he doesn't believe. He's saying that he has the same experiences as all the young people here, but he doesn't dress this way. He doesn't chant. He doesn't choose to call this praise to Kṛṣṇa. He chooses to call it something else. How is it essentially different? He's saying it's essentially the same.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Not important. He can have dhotī, you can have pant, you can have... It doesn't matter.

Dr. Pore: It's part of the beauty of the world. It's interesting, it's fun, it's enjoyable, and I see no reason for denial.

Prabhupāda: There are so many thing enjoyable, but who is enjoying? That is the question. The real enjoyer and sufferer is the soul, not this body. When the soul is out of this body the body is no more enjoyer or sufferer; it is a lump of matter. The sense of enjoyment and suffering is there so long the soul is there. Therefore the soul is important. And if you can study the soul then you can understand what is God.

Peter: How do you know there's a soul?

Prabhupāda: Because you are speaking. Because you are inquiring, I know the soul. Because you are soul, therefore you are inquiring. As soon as the soul is out of your body, you cannot inquire anymore. Inquiry finished.

Dr. Wolfe: Can one say that soul and life are identical?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Identical... Life is the symptom of the soul. Because the soul is there, therefore life is there. And as soon the soul is not there, there is no more life. There is sun in the sky, and the light is there, sunshine. When the sun is set, there is no more light; it is dark.

Dr. Pore: Is the body, then, to be resisted? Is the body to be disciplined, to be resisted, to be ignored? Is that what you're suggesting?

Prabhupāda: Ignored?

Bahulāśva: How to treat the body?

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). These materialistic persons, they do not know what is Viṣṇu or they do not know that his ultimate goal of life is to know Viṣṇu, or God. This is human life. But that is missing. They do not care to know that the ultimate, what is the ultimate goal of human life. This is the defect. Nobody cares to know, especially in this age. So that is the defeat of human civilization. They must know. This is the process, that... By evolution, they have come to nature's way, human form of life. Now they must know what is God. Otherwise it is defeat.

Dr. Judah: That's true.

Prabhupāda: The opportunity given by nature, good consciousness to know God, Viṣṇu. Now, practically, take anyone, especially in the western world. Nobody can say what is God. Is it not?

Dr. Judah: It's true.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Dr. Judah: That is quite true.

Prabhupāda: So in that position, if we are offering, "Here is God," why do they not accept? What is the objection?

Dr. Judah: There isn't any objection. I think the great problem, of course, in the western world is that the western world has always been involved in materialism and...

Prabhupāda: The western world... That means they don't want to know God. So this is very horrible condition.

Dr. Judah: That's true.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Animal condition. Not only horrible, it is animal condition. They do not want to know God. Just like these animals, they are not interested. So they have no church, the animals, or temple. But in the human society, either he is Hindu or Muslim or Christian, there is some arrangement for understanding God. Now they are also neglecting that, everyone, all over the world. Now they are clearly... The Communists, they hate to say anything about God. So ultimately they are coming to such position, the Communists, that "No word about God." So this is the position. Now apart from them, just like theologists and theosophists. They are, at least, after understanding what is God, but they cannot ascertain definitely. So why do they not take? We are offering, "Here is God." Where is the objection? Why they should object? If you do not know something and if I give you the information, why you should not take?

Dr. Judah: That's a good question.

Prabhupāda: That is my question. (break) Just like in India, for higher technological knowledge, they come to foreign countries. So for knowledge, we can take it from anywhere. There should not be sectarianism, "Oh, why shall I take knowledge from here and there?" Wherever knowledge is available, we should take it. That is the real position of seeker of knowledge. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says, nīcād apy uttamā vidyā strī-ratnaṁ duṣkulād api. He says, viṣād apy amṛtaṁ grāhyam. Viṣa, viṣa means poison. "In the pot of poison, if there is little nectar in, take it." Viṣād apy amṛtaṁ grāhyam. Poison is not to be touched, but if there is little nectar in, take it. And amedhyād api kāñcanam: "And in a filthy place there is gold. Take it." Not that gold has been polluted because it is in the filthy place.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Actually, nobody has got clear idea of God. This is the difficulty. Nobody knows. We can challenge them. Nobody knows what is God. We can challenge. (break) (in car)

Dr. Judah: ...o'clock this morning.

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone rises at three o'clock.

Dr. Judah: I had an interesting dream last night, and after dreaming it, I woke up and stayed awake until I got up, until I was called at five. The dream was... It seems to be a mixture of the events that occurred last night. I was in a temple and doing kīrtana with a number of devotees, and in the middle of the kīrtana, a little child crawled in on the floor into the temple, and we all stopped and talked to the little child. And I'm reminded... And I thought, "Now what does this mean?" And I remember then. I was talking with Dharma just before I went to bed, and there was this little child that came in from next door there, and so he, we gave him some prasādam, and so I feel that this all got mixed together in this dream.

Prabhupāda: Dream means some mixed ideas.

Dr. Judah: Yeah. Yes. An interesting mixture of things.

Jayatīrtha: Prabhupāda gives the example that during the day you may see gold and you may see a mountain. So at night you dream of a golden mountain. (break)

Morning Walk -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (in car) So do these people know what is the science of God?

Jayatīrtha: No. But they pretend that they do.

Prabhupāda: Well, pretending will not do. You must explain what is God. "Something," "perhaps," this is not science. (break)

Jayatīrtha: ...if no one else knows, they're able to fool them.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.

Brahmānanda: Each man presents his own theory.

Prabhupāda: That is theosophy, that is not theology. Theosophy means a system of speculation, that's all. And theology does not require. Biology. Logy means science. They say anthropology, but it is not logy; it is theory. "Maybe," "200,000,000's of years." What is this? Logy does not mean that.

Jayatīrtha: Still, they're awarding Ph.D.'s in theology.

Prabhupāda: Just like astrology. That is a science. Eh? What is that?

Jayatīrtha: But still they're awarding Ph.D.'s in theology, even they don't know anything about it.

Prabhupāda: You can do. Hiranda-pitha drumayate. When there is no tree, the small castor seed oil tree... It is not much. It becomes a very big tree. Hiranda-pitha drumayate. The castor seed plants, they are taken as big tree. (break) Actually, theology is Bhagavad-gītā. (break)

Morning Walk -- July 2, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: He is not disturbed by the rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. That is sattva-guṇa. Naṣṭa-prayeṣv abhadreṣu (SB 1.2.18). He can be disturbed by rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, but when he is in sattva-guṇa, he is not so much disturbed. And if he increase and go to the pure sattva-guṇa, suddha-sattva, then he is no more disturbed. At that time he can understand what is God. (break) ...you are strongly situated in sattva-guṇa, the other base qualities cannot disturb you. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye (SB 1.2.19). Other guṇa means lusty desires and greediness. This thing will be finished when you are strongly situated in sattva-guṇa. Then you go advance more and more. (break) ...hear about Kṛṣṇa, to chant about Kṛṣṇa, means cleansing, cleansing the dirty things of rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. (break) ...world is going on on rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. Very minute quantity of population are by sattva-guṇa.

Brahmānanda: Perhaps only in India will you find people in...

Prabhupāda: Yes, some. That is also deteriorating. (break) The sattva-guṇa... the Māyāvādī, they are also supposed to be in sattva-guṇa, but mixed with rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Therefore not pure.

Devotee (2): You were saying that when one is in the mode of goodness, that he is on the mental platform?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee (2): Does that mean that he's not... He's experiencing the subtle body inside of the gross body, or what does that mean exactly?

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: (in car) ...saṁsāre māyāra janeiya, moha janeiya, jīva ke karaye gadha. This māyāra vaibhava, this material advancement is advancement of māyā. Big, big building, nice road, nice motor car, nice... Surely it is material advancement, admitted. But this advancement is advancement of the illusory energy. So what is the wrong there? Suppose... The wrong is there that this material world is temporary. We have come here temporarily, say twenty-five years, fifty years or at most, hundred years. So we are already illusioned and we become more illusioned. Then we forget our real business. Mūḍha, we remain mūḍha. Supposing if there is next birth, so who is very much anxious to know what is our next birth? Nobody is. Blindly going on. māyāra vaibhava. (break) ...very nice church, but understand what for this church is, what is God, what is God consciousness. Just cultivate this knowledge. "No, big church finished." Live nice building, nice happy life, but don't forget Kṛṣṇa. Then what is the use of this life? And if you forget Kṛṣṇa, then the result will be crime, and you will be facing with problems, "Why and now what to do?" So many problems will be there. So the problems cannot be solved simply by possessing big, big buildings.

Jagadīśa: Shall we get out and walk, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Any way.

Jagadīśa: Do you want to walk.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But how we will walk if it is dripping?

Brahmānanda: It's raining. We can ride along the beach... (break)

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: But where is the education about God? Simply, trust is also good, very good, but simple trust will not endure unless you know scientifically what is God. Everyone knows that he has got a father, but he does not know who is his father. That knowledge is not perfect. Everyone who is born in this material world must have a father, but that is not sufficient suggestion. One must know who is father. That education is lacking.

Lt. Mozee: Do you feel, sir, that it is lacking only here in the United States?

Prabhupāda: Everywhere.

Lt. Mozee: Everywhere.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everywhere. This is the age of forgetting God. We say it is Kali-yuga. Kali-yuga means the age of misunderstanding. And that is, I said, dirty things within the heart. So God is so powerful that if we chant the holy name of God, then we become purified. So our movement is based on this principle, chant the holy name of God. We give all facilities to everyone without any distinction that "You come with us. Come in our temple, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and take little prasādam, refreshment, and gradually you become purified." So if the government authorities give us facilities for this business, that we hold mass saṅkīrtana, Hare Kṛṣṇa, and give them little prasādam, then we are sure the whole place will change.

Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Training, every training should begin from childhood. Just like you send your boys and girls to school. So any educational system should be begin from childhood.

Reporter (2): What is the secret to learning to love God?

Prabhupāda: Secret of learning God?

Jagadīśa: Learning to love.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The secret—that he must be a first-class man. Otherwise he does not understand what is God, and what to speak of loving Him.

Reporter (3): What is the definition again of a first-class man?

Prabhupāda: First-class man? Where is that Bhagavad-gītā?

Brahmānanda: Bhagavad-gītā, they did not bring.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) What is the nonsense? You are all nonsense. First-class man, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that he should first of all try to..., not try, practice how to control the mind, how to control the senses. Then he must be truthful. He must be very clean, outside and inside. He must be very simple. He must be tolerant. He must be full of knowledge. He must apply knowledge in practical life. And he must believe in God. These are the qualification of the first-class man.

Reporter (2): Once a person is trained in one of the classes, can he move to another class once he's been trained as, say, a third-class man?

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Religion means primarily to know God and love Him. That is religion. And nobody knows God, and what to speak of loving Him? Nobody is trained up how to know God and how to love Him. They are satisfied by going to the church: "O God, give us our daily bread." That also not everyone goes. So the Communist says that "You don't go to the church. Bread we shall supply." So poor innocent persons, they get bread elsewhere, so they do not go to church. But nobody is serious to understand what is God and how to love Him. Nobody is serious. Therefore in Bhāgavatam, it is said, it is cheating religion. I profess some religion, but I do not know what is God and how to love Him. That's all. So that type of religion is cheating religion. Religion means to know God and love Him. But generally, a man does not know what is God and what to speak of loving Him? So therefore that is cheating religion. That is not religion. But so far Christian religion is concerned, there is ample chance of understanding God. But they do not care for it. Take for example, the commandment is "Thou shall not kill." But in the Christian world, best slaughterhouses are maintained. So how they can become God conscious? They disobey the commandments, do not care for Lord Jesus Christ's order. So this is not only in Christian religion. Every religion, it is going on. It is simply rubber stamp. "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian." And none of them do know what is God and how to love Him.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Who teaches these things—how to know God and how to love Him—he is spiritual master. Otherwise bogus, rascal bogus. Sometimes they mislead that "I am God." Poor people, they do not know what is God, and a rascal proposes, "I am God," and they accept it. Just like in your country they elected Nixon president and again drag him. That means they did not know who is really bona fide president, elected somebody, and again they had to business of dragging out. Similarly, people are foolish. Any rascal comes. He says, "I am God." They accept. And again they accept another. This is going on. So one must be serious student to understand what is God and how to love Him. That is religion. Otherwise, it is simply waste of time. That we are teaching. That is the difference between others and our... We are presenting Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the science, how to know Him. The Bhagavad-gītā is there, Bhāgavata is there. Not bogus. Authorized. Therefore this is the only institution which can teach how to know God and how to love Him. Two business. There is no third business. It is not our business to ask God to give us our necessities. We know God gives necessities to everyone, even one who has no religion. Just like cats and dogs. They have no religion. They do not know what is religion. But still, the cats and dogs are supplied with necessities of life. So why we should bother Kṛṣṇa, asking Him, "Give us our daily bread"? He is supplying already. Our business is how to love Him. That is religion. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ atra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ vāstavaṁ vastu vedyam atra (SB 1.1.2). Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ yato bhaktir adhokṣaje: "That is first-class religion which teaches how to love God." And that love—not for any material motive: "God, You give me this. Then I will love." No. Ahaitukī. Love means without any personal profit. If I love God for some profit that is business. That is not love. Ahaituky apratihatā. And such love of God cannot be checked by any material cause. In any condition, one can learn how to love God. It is not conditional, that "I am poor man. How shall I love God? I have got so many things to do." No, it is not like that. Poor, rich or young or old, black or white, there is no impediment. If one wants to love God, he can love God.

Sandy Nixon: Are there different paths that one can learn to love God?

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Father: What is it that Kṛṣṇa consciousness has that offers people so much more than other religions do?

Prabhupāda: This is religion. I have already explained that religion means to become lover of God. That is religion. When there is no love of God, that is not religion. Religion means—I have already explained—to know God and to love Him. So if you do not know what is God, where is the question of loving Him? So that is not religion. It is going on in the name of religion. But religion means to know God and to love Him. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇitām (SB 6.3.19). Can you find out this verse? Give him. You don't find?

Nitai: Yes, 3.19.

Prabhupāda: Third Chapter, nineteen verse.

Nitai:

dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇitām

na vai vidur ṛsayo nāpi devaḥ

na siddha-mukhya asura manuṣyaḥ

kuto nu vidyādhara-cāraṇādayaḥ

(SB 6.3.19)

Prabhupāda: Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇitām: "The principles of religion is given by God." Just like the law. Law means the process of activities which is given by the government. You cannot make law at home. Is it clear?

Father: No, I'm having a language problem, I'm afraid.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: This is offering that you want to be religious, so you try to understand religious principles from God. Because if one is lawyer, if one wants to become a lawyer, he must learn laws which is given by the government. He cannot become a lawyer at home. Similarly, if you want to become religious, you must learn what is religion from God. You don't manufacture your own religion. That is not religion. This is the first principle. But if I do not know what is God, what is the order given by God, then what is religion? That is going on. Everyone is manufacturing his own religion. This is the modern method, that religion is private. Anyone can accept any type of religion. That is liberalism, is it not?

Jayatīrtha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Just convince him.

Jayatīrtha: So do you understand? The idea is that this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is based on authority of the Vedas. And the Vedic literatures are coming directly from Kṛṣṇa. So we only accept it as truth what Kṛṣṇa says and we don't accept anybody's mental concoctions or speculations as being truth. And this is the problem with so many other religious movements today, that they depend on the interpretation or the...

Prabhupāda: Concoction.

Jayatīrtha: ...philosophy of some ordinary man. So this is the primary differential.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: "A lamb at home, a lion in the chase." (laughter) When you are chasing, you must be a lion. (laughter) But when you come home, you do not try to chase the devotees. (laughter)

Guest: Swami, what about those who practice one of the other religions in...?

Prabhupāda: There is no other religion. I have repeatedly said. Religion is to abide by the orders of God. Nobody knows what is God, and nobody knows what is the order of God. Or even if one knows, he does not carry it. So how there can be religion? If you abide by the state laws, then you are lawful, but if you do not abide by the state laws, how you can become lawful? If you violate the laws, how you can become lawful? If you follow religion, then you must follow strictly the religious principles. And if you have no business to follow the religious principles, how you can become religious? Is it possible?

Guest: I understand what you're saying. You're saying you cannot do practices and commit sin, right?

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are, in every religion, there are principles. If you don't follow them, then how you become religious? Therefore this is my question. So nobody is following religious principles at the present moment. Therefore practically there is no religion. Everything is finished. We are trying to revive. If you follow religious principle, then it doesn't matter whether you are Christian or Mohammedan or Hindu or Buddha. Then you are religious. But if you do not follow any religious principle, then how you become religious?

Father: Does that mean to say that you can't live a happy life without being religious?

Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: What is the goal, single or plural, doesn't matter.

Prof. Hopkins: Well, some Christians would say the vision of God, the ultimate goal is to be with God.

Prabhupāda: That is really, to realize God. Not only Christian, any religion. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). There may be different types of religious systems but that system is first class which directly leads one to understand what is God and how to love Him. That's all. That is perfect religion.

Prof. Hopkins: So the question... The question in one sense is not whether it's Christian or Śaivite or Vaiṣṇavite but whether it is directed to a knowledge of God, a devotion to God or not.

Prabhupāda: That is first-class.

Prof. Hopkins: But you would feel that there, what, it is easier to reach that goal by worshiping Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa is the ultimate goal.

Prof. Hopkins: But is it easier or better to be a devotee of Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prof. Hopkins: A Kṛṣṇa bhakta than to be a Christian, say?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anything genuine is easy. Anything hodgepodge, that is not good. We don't recommend hodgepodge.

Prof. Hopkins: So the advantage then, or the greater value is that it is focused and clear rather than a hodgepodge where the goal and the activities are not clear.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Just like there is butter in the milk but the milk is not butter. You churn it and then the butter will be there. Similarly, in every religious system... Every milk there is butter, but churning the milk and giving direct delivery of butter, that is the Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā and Bhāgavata.

Prof. Hopkins: And it's more... It's more clear there, you would say, than it is in any other tradition.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now God... Ask any religious system "What is God?" he cannot... What is God? They cannot explain. And we are saying, "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa." So which is better? If you search after gold and you do not know what is gold... Eh? And if you... If some authorized friend gives, "Here is gold. You take it." That is easier.

Prof. Hopkins: So the strength and the value is in knowing...

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

Prof. Hopkins: Knowing what gold is.

Prabhupāda: That is the only business of human being, to know the Absolute Truth, God. That is the only business. Otherwise what is the difference between cats and dogs and human being? They do not care to know what is God. So if human being also in the same status, doesn't care to know what is God, then what is the difference between dogs and human being?

Prof. Hopkins: People, various people read your writings, your commentaries, and they, they react to them sometimes with reservation because they see your writings as dogmatic.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: So if we don't admit Kṛṣṇa is the only God then you present who is only God. You say me. Either you have to learn from me or I have to learn from you.

Prof. Hopkins: So to insist...

Prabhupāda: If you do not know what is God you cannot say, "Kṛṣṇa is not God." As soon as you say, "Kṛṣṇa is not God," that means you must know what is God. You present. But if you cannot present, you say, "No, I do not know God," then you cannot say, "Kṛṣṇa is not God."

Prof. Hopkins: All right.

Prabhupāda: So they are dogmatic. Dogmatically they are saying, "Kṛṣṇa is not God." He does not know God and he says, "Kṛṣṇa is not God." So what is this nonsense? You do not know God. How you can say Kṛṣṇa is not God?

Prof. Hopkins: I agree with you, I just... I want to get... (laughter) If we're dogmatic, we're on the same side.

Prabhupāda: We are not dogmatic. Those people who are talking us as dogmatic, he is dogmatic. He does not know God, and when God is presented before him, he says, "No, He is not God." That is dogmatic.

Prof. Hopkins: Would you... Do you feel that those who've had genuine religious, spiritual understanding would not have that kind of argument?

Prabhupāda: Yes. One... We say... I do not say, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that...

Press Conference -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: We are speaking of religion. Religion means to know God and to love God. So does the Christian-Jewish religious system deny this? Then where is the difference? If Christian religion is meant for understanding God and try to love Him, the same thing we are preaching. The same thing, Jewish religion may be preaching. And where is that religion who denies the supremacy of God? What is that religion? Is there any religion in the world who denies the supremacy of God? We say, "Religion means the laws given by God." This is our definition. Therefore we must know what is God, what are His orders, and we must carry out the order and what is the end of carrying out such orders. If we try to understand these three or four things, then we are religious. If there is no attempt to understand what is God and what is His order and how we are acting, what is the goal of our life, then where is religion? That is not religion. Religion means these four principles: What is God, what we are, what is our relationship with God, and act accordingly and achieve the goal of life. This is religion. So any religious system which does not consider all these things, that is not religion. That has been explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, kaitavaḥ. Kaitavaḥ means cheating. Religion means these things, wherever these things are there, that is religion, these enquiries. This is the subject matter of Vedānta-sūtra, where it is said, athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now the human life is meant for enquiring about the Supreme." So that is religion.

Jayatīrtha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, would you comment on opposition to the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement in this country?

Prabhupāda: No, why they should oppose? What is the reason? If they are Christian or Jewish, religious men, so we are advocating, "You chant the holy name of God," so why there should be objection? Is there any reason for such objection? What is the objection?

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Then they are fools. They should stop all this education. This university should be broken. (laughter) Because they are producing only fools. That's all. They should stop this education.

Bahulāśva: Donate all these buildings to you.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. The buildings will remain there, but they will be finished. What is this education? They do not know what is God, what is soul, and what is the meaning of education? Simply bodily concept of life like cats and dogs, so what is the use of education? They remain cats and dogs. That is no value.

Bahulāśva: They cannot live happily either or peaceful.

Prabhupāda: Because they are, basically they are mistaken, how they can be happy? Basically they are mistaken. How you can be happy? They do not know what is happiness.

Paramahaṁsa: As a matter of fact, that's the same thing my father said. He says that "Because you believe in God, he says you don't have to fear death." He says, "But I have nothing to look forward to."

Prabhupāda: So that is also the position of a stone. So you better remain a stone, but I am life. The stone does not believe in anything and still it is happy. So you remain a stone. I am not stone; I am life.

Jayādvaita: There's a verse in Caitanya-caritāmṛta that without Lord Caitanya, there is no life. Acaitanya.

Prabhupāda: Hm, yes. Acaitanya, yes.

Bahulāśva: So this dark planet, then, is closer?

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Because they are fourth-class, unless he says like that, how they will stick? They were not intelligent men. Just like Lord Buddha also said, "There is no God." "There is no God," but he is God himself.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means the followers of Lord Buddha are less intelligent than the followers of...

Prabhupāda: "Less" not. They are atheist class. So they will not understand what is God. So he said, "There is no God. You just hear me and become nonviolent." So his idea was, "Let this rascal first of all become nonviolent. Then they will be pure, and then they will understand."

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Nectar of Devotion you explain that there are three classes of devotees. And you say that the third-class devotee, he has belief but he cannot explain or give any support.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Bahulāśva: This is like Christian...?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bahulāśva: They believe that there is God.

Prabhupāda: If you believe there is God, that is sufficient. That is sufficient. But now they, being advanced in education, they want to know how God is there. There is no explanation. Therefore they reject it.

Jayādvaita: They try to explain scientifically what's in the Bible.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Ah. No, this first word, distress, ārtaḥ, ārtaḥ. Artaḥ, arthārthī, jñānī and jijñāsuḥ. So some innocent man, when he is distressed, he has belief in God. So he approaches God, "God, I am distressed. Kindly help me." He is simply on faith. That is good. And jñānī means he wants to know actually what is God. Then his enquiry is advancing.

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, sometimes philosophers make a distinction between knowledge and a belief. They say you can believe in something, but that doesn't mean that you necessarily know that thing which you believe in.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's fact. Therefore for the neophytes, less intelligent, they should believe. That is the only way, viśvāsa. So generally mass of people they are not so educated. They should believe.

Devotee (6): It says in the Bhāgavatam...

Prabhupāda: Therefore in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said that viśvāsa śabde śudṛdha niścaya. Śudṛdha niścaya, kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya. Śraddhā, śraddhā. Śraddhā means faith. So in Christian science also, there is state, faithful. So this faith may be blind, but that is required.

Paramahaṁsa: Like a child.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Professor: In religious studies.

Prabhupāda: What is your definition of religion?

Professor: My definition of religion? I think religion has mostly to do with the kinds of questions people ask. Religion is the attempt to answer questions about "Who am I? and "Who is God?" and "How do I relate to God?"

Prabhupāda: That is nice. That is the meaning. So do the people in general know what is God?

Professor: People in general... Today most people have an idea, but they don't all agree. So you can't say that they all have an idea of God. But they all believe they do.

Prabhupāda: No, believing is different thing. You can believe anything. But God is one. So God is there, you believe or not believe. Just like the president of your state is there. One may say, "I don't believe in him." That does not mean there is no president. Similarly, a foolish man can say that there is no God, but that does not mean there is no God. There is God. Now who is that God?

Professor: Who is God?

Prabhupāda: Just like in your state, everyone knows there is a president. And one can enquire, "Who is now president?" Is it not natural?

Professor: Is it not...? Everyone knows who the president is.

Prabhupāda: No, knows or not knows. Suppose I am a foreigner. I know...

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: Why there should be different...? President is one, and everyone knows he is one. Why there be lots... That means they do not know. If there is... Just like now Mr. Ford is president. So nobody can say, "Now Mr. John is president." Mr. Ford is president. You cannot say, "Mr. John is president," "Mr. such and such is president," "I suggest," "I..." "It may be like that." Why may be? Actually Mr. Ford is president. And one who says, "May be like this," he does not know who is the president. As soon as he says, "God may be like this," that means he does not know what is God. So there cannot be different description of God. God is one. One must know who is that God. That is education. Now, we are teaching that, "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa." Now it is up to you to test whether Kṛṣṇa is God or not God. But if you know what is God, then you have to accept Kṛṣṇa.

Professor: If you know who is God, accept it?

Prabhupāda: If you know what is God, then you will accept Kṛṣṇa is God.

Professor: Oh.

Prabhupāda: If you do not know actually what is God, then you will deny. Or if you deny, then present who is God, if you know. Then you will have to say, "I do not know what is God." So anyone who is trying to study religion and God, they should try to understand our philosophy, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Satsvarūpa: The professor says they have the Bhagavad-gītā in his college.

Prabhupāda: Oh. You have got this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is?

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: Well then go and marry there. If the state of California allows that, then they all can go to California.

Nityānanda: The general public objects to that... It's very...

Prabhupāda: Public we don't care. We... What is the public? We have got our own public here. So pub... What is the public? All rascals. They are killing cows and drinking and topless dance, bottomless dance. What is the value of this public? All rascals. I don't give any importance to this class of public, only after sense gratification, that's all. They have no ideals of life. They do not know what is God. What is the value of this public? Mūḍhas, they have been described, mūḍhas. You know the meaning of mūḍha?

Devotee (1): Ass.

Prabhupāda: Ass. Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ paramaṁ mama.

Nityānanda: The householders on our farm, they should cooperate and produce the food centrally or every householder should produce his own food independently?

Prabhupāda: No. Why they are living in a community centrally? Community means work everything for the community.

Devotee (1): Some men can cultivate the fields, some men can take care of the cows, some men... They can (indistinct) responsible.

Prabhupāda: No, it is service (?).

Upendra: One question I have, Prabhupāda... When I heard about New Vrindaban... I've not been there myself, so I cannot say firsthand, but I've talked with devotees have been there.

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1975, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: Because they have not realized that we have taken a responsibility. When a man has a responsibility usually he is given some certain facilities to carry out that responsibility.

Prabhupāda: Everyone, cent percent godless, neither they have got intelligence to understand what is God. This is the position.

Yogeśvara: Then we are giving them the intelligence as well as the answers? Because if they have no intelligence to understand...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Our organization is that. Why we are opening so many centers? Just to give these rascals intelligence. Why Kṛṣṇa is recognizing so nicely a preacher? Because He knows that he has to face so many difficulties. He is not easygoing, armchair politician, no. He has to face so many difficulties.

Mādhavānanda: Therefore Kṛṣṇa recognizes by giving knowledge of Himself?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa immediately gives him all facilities.

Mādhavānanda: There has never been a movement like this which has given factual knowledge of God. Therefore they think it's sentiment, religion.

Prabhupāda: So we have to abide by their sentiment? Because they are rascals, we have to become rascal?

Yogeśvara: (aside:) The top has come down? (pause)

Morning Walk -- September 26, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Indian man (3): Lord Kṛṣṇa was the greatest man ever born. He was not God.

Indian man (2): You see, he has got the principles of Ārya-samāj. Because he is... "Everybody is God." That is his... They are brainwashed. Brainwash is there.

Prabhupāda: What is God? Let us have, understand.

Indian man (3): God has no form.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Indian man (3): Why? Because that is a principle.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Indian man (3): That's the principle.

Prabhupāda: That is your principle.

Indian man (3): He has given all the principles and these principles they taught us...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. You say God has no form.

Indian man (3): Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is your principle, not others'. You cannot say that is the principle. That is your principle.

Indian man (3): But, sir, there are certain principles laid down.

Morning Walk -- September 26, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore a rascal can say like that. A rascal can say like that.

Indian man (2): Somebody said that "No, my mother's name should come after my name, or father's name."

Prabhupāda: Mūḍha. Therefore they have been called mūḍhas. Na mā duṣkṛtino mūḍhā prapadyante narādhamāḥ. They have been described in the Bhagavad-gītā as duṣkṛtinaḥ. First of all they are very, very sinful. They have got merit, but sinful merit, duṣkṛtinaḥ. Kṛti means meritorious, but duḥ, duṣkṛtina. So on account of their (being) duṣkṛtinaḥ they are mūḍhas. They cannot understand what is scripture, what is God, what is Kṛṣṇa. They cannot understand. It is not possible.

Indian man (3): Yes, I at least understand what is God.

Prabhupāda: You want to save yourself.

Indian man (2): His definition is different, absolutely. According to his...

Prabhupāda: No, God cannot be defined differently. God is one.

Indian man (2): But can God be defined? We haven't got a definition of God. I challenge you.

Indian man (3): (Hindi)

Indian man (2): You cannot. Intellectually, you cannot analyse things.

Morning Walk -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: The other man I said, "Why do you bring India? Never... Kṛṣṇa never said, 'yadā yadā hi Hindu dharmasya glānir...' (laughter) Nonsense, what is this? Dharmasya glānir bhavati. Why do you bring 'Hindu dharma,' India?" That is their imperfectness of knowedge. We are not talking of Hindu dharma, Muslim dharma, this dharma. We are talking of what is religion. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Religion means the law given by God. You should know what is God, what is that law. That is religion.

Devotee (6): They all think we are propagating Hindusim because we're wearing dhotī...

Prabhupāda: They are thinking. They are rascals. They are thinking like that. Therefore I say they are imperfect. They are imperfectly thinking. So... So there were many Muslims, and the Christian, that Scotland man, he appreciated.

Cyavana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So we do not say anything about any particular section. We are speaking about God. God does not belong to any section. When Kṛṣṇa said that there should be four divisions, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13), He does not say that these divisions should be in the Hindu society or in India. He never says so. So why they take it as Hindu? Kṛṣṇa does not say that it is meant for the Hindus, for India. If God says that "I have created the sun," does it mean sun is created for India, not for this island? So these are foolishness. Whatever is spoken by God, that is meant for everyone, all over the universe. That is real understanding.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's in the American Constitution that all men are created equally.

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Harikeśa: Nowadays they do.

Prabhupāda: Oh. What do they?

Harikeśa: When we went to Hyderabad we spoke to the Archbishop, and Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami asked him, "What is God?" And he said, "Well, nowadays there are so many theories as to what is God."

Prabhupāda: Theories.

Harikeśa: "Actually nobody knows."

Prabhupāda: Just see. A head of religious group, and he says, "There are so many theories." And this rascal is the head of the group. So what is the group?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They must be rascals too.

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Devotee (2): Well, sometimes... Just like in the Kṛṣṇa book how Kṛṣṇa spoke to Kamsa out of the air, they say, "Well, God speaks but you can't see Him. But you can hear Him. He speaks sometimes out of the air."

Prabhupāda: Then God speaks. Then speaks means He has got mouth. Otherwise how He speaks?

Devotee (2): But they say, "Well, we couldn't see Him."

Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Yes, a covering. Vehicle also. Vehicle also. It is just like a machine. You go from one place to another on a motorcar machine. So this body is just like machine. On account of our material, conditional life we are thinking that "If I get this position, then I will be happy. If I get this position, I will be happy." We are creating mental concoction. But nothing will make us happy unless we come to our real position that "I am part and parcel of God. My business is to associate with God and help or cooperate with God." So that position we have to revive. And there are different types of vehicle, in the aquatic animals, then, I mean to say, plants. When the water is dried up, then vegetation comes. Then vegetation..., from vegetation, we... Trees and plants, they cannot move. Then we get little improvement; we can move, just like flies, insects, microbes, reptiles, and so many. So there are nine lakhs' forms of body within the water. Then two million types of bodies in vegetable, and then 1,100,000 species of life like microbes, germs, worms, insects. Then you come to the birds' life, three million different forms of. Then we come to beast life. That is also... Birds, I am sorry. Birds' life, one million, and then the beast life, three millions... Then we come to human form of body, and especially, gradually, we become civilized. So when we are civilized, then it is a chance to understand "what is God, what I am, what is our relationship." So if we don't take advantage of this civilized human life to understand God, and if we simply waste our life like cats and dogs, jumping and going here, then this is a great missing point. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to educate people not to miss this opportunity. You take full advantage on this human form of life and try to understand God and your relationship with God.

Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: No, that... This I have already told you. There are 8,400,000 different forms of life. So you can enter any one of them according to your mental condition. We are under the control of the material nature. The material nature is being conducted in three modes: goodness, passion and ignorance. So just like three colors: yellow, red, and blue. Now you mix-three into three equal to nine, nine into nine equal to eighty-one. So these modes of material nature is being mixed up. Therefore there are so many varieties of life. So if we transcend this coloring platform of material nature, we come to the pure consciousness. Then we stop this repetition of birth and death in different forms of life. And if we do not that, then there is chance of going down or going up. There are different planets. If you cultivate the modes of goodness, then you are promoted to the higher planetary system, higher standard of life. And if you don't improve or don't go down, then you may remain in the present stage. But out of ignorance, if you still degrade, commit sinful activities, violate the laws of nature, then we go down again—the animal life, the plants' life, like that. But again we have to evolve, evolutionary process, by nature's... So it may take many millions of years. So therefore a human being must be responsible that "I have got this opportunity to get out of this cycle of birth and death and different forms of life, and let me properly understand God and what is my relationship with God and act accordingly so that if we understand what is God, then we go back to home, back to Godhead."

Morning Walk -- October 12, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: No consideration. They are actually like cats and dogs. This is going on. (break) Nobody knows what is soul; nobody knows what is the goal of life; nobody knows what is the necessity of the soul. These things are not discussed, neither they know it. So-called religious institution or so-called..., they do not know. It is only mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, and that... They do not take care of this Bhagavad-gītā. They manufacture their own ways of...

Indian man (3): Is there any other books before Bhagavad-gītā?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Vedas there are. Yes. But what is the purpose of Veda? The purpose of Veda is to understand God. If you do not understand God... Just like the Ārya-samājīs. They are concerned with Vedas, they say. But they do not know what is God. They say, "I am God." This is their knowledge. If he is God, who is going to worship him? Nobody comes to kick on his face, and still, he says, "I am God." This is going on. How you become God? Who worships you? But still, he will say, "I am God." You see. Such foolishness is going on. Ārya. Ārya means advanced, and this is their advancement. Ārya means advanced, and this is their advancement that they think, "I am God." Just see. Everyone can think like that. Then what is the use of advancement? This is going on. (break)...sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ. Veda means knowledge. So the ultimate knowledge is to know God. But if you do not know God, then what is the value of your knowledge?

Indian man (3): Quite right.

Prabhupāda: If you say like a rascal that "I am God," is that knowledge?

Indian man (3): It's no knowledge at all.

Morning Walk -- November 8, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That knowledge is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. The so-called knowledge is useless. It has no value. māyāyapahṛta-jñāna. What is the test? Na māṁ prapadyante: "If he had knowledge, he would have surrendered to Me," but he does not do so.

Dr. Patel: Jñānavan māṁ prapadyante. That is knowledge. Jñāna means knowledge. That knowledge is the Supreme.

Prabhupāda: But that knowledge means actually jñānavān. Otherwise it is false knowledge. māyāyapahṛta-jñāna. If you do not know what is God, then what is the meaning of your knowledge?

Bhāgavata: You explain in the Gītā that

bahunam janmanam ante

jñānavān mam prapadyante

vasudevaḥ sarvam iti

sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ

(BG 7.19)

Prabhupāda: (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is knowledge. Therefore so many mahātmās, sādhus, yogis, they are all useless, all useless because they have no bhakti. Simply artificially cheating people. (break) This is a society of cheaters and cheated. If you want to be cheated, there are many cheaters who will come and cheat you. That's all.

Bhāgavata: Just like the Guru Maharaj-ji. Now the mother is denouncing. She is saying he is no more qualified to be Bhagavān. Now his brother, he is Bhagavān.

Prabhupāda: That's all, anyway, a third class.

Morning Walk -- November 8, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The magistrate is the president of the maṭha.

Dr. Patel: Dvaraka temple was under control of Mahārāja of Baroda, but he appointed a committee of Vaiṣṇavas to control it. It was completely free. (break) (laughing) You have been very unkind to people.

Prabhupāda: He is a first-class Carvaka, he is.

Bhāgavata: The dog is also trying to defend himself against the Lord.

Prabhupāda: No. That is not the question. Question is anyone who does not know what is God, he is a Carvaka, that's all. Mūḍha nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param ayayam. He's a Carvaka. That's all. The same bodily concept. Russian, American, Chinese. Then? Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke, sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13).

Indian man (3): They are innocent. They are not...

Dr. Patel: Innocent?

Prabhupāda: No, they are not innocent; they are stupid. (laughter) They are not innocent. They will never agree...

Indian man (3): There are so many Indians, they are also not...

Dr. Patel: No, they are also like that.

Prabhupāda: Huh? The simple thing explained in the Bhagavad-gītā... Simple thing explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, asmin dehe dehinām: "Within this body there is the proprietor." So they do not understand it. Huh?

Indian man (3): That comes after, after...

Morning Walk -- November 13, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That means they were foolish; now they are coming to be wise.

Dr. Patel: But they have died out, the previous generation. Now the new generation.

Prabhupāda: No, still there are, so many rascals.

Dr. Patel: There cannot be uniformity of...

Prabhupāda: So many rascals. One scientist came to talk with me in California. And he: "God? What is God? We have now solved everything." And you are rascal, demon.

Dr. Patel: He should be asked to "Make a single living cell yourself. We'll give you all the ingredients, all the chemicals, and make us a living cell. If you can make it?" That should be the answer to that.

Prabhupāda: They are so foolish. I very strongly talk with them. Still, stubborn, doggish. That scientist, I told him in his..., that "You are a demon." I told him, "You are a demon." So he tolerated. (laughs)

Dr. Patel: They are serving the Mammon and not God.

Prabhupāda: So, so many psychologists, psychiatrists, scientists, they come there in Los Angeles.

Dr. Patel: I mean, the psychologists are the real science which can lead a man to the higher understanding of life, psychologists. The abstract sciences of biology and psychics, chemistry, are little lower sciences. The psychology is much higher.

Prabhupāda: No science is perfect. Asato dhavato bahiḥ.

Morning Walk -- November 14, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: māyayāpahṛta jñānā. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Indian man (4): Honor...

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Unless one understands Kṛṣṇa... Vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). Veda means knowledge. So all kinds of knowledge, they are aiming at the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So if one does not understand what is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then māyayāpahṛta-jñānā—he has no knowledge. Knowledge means ultimately he must know what is God. That is knowledge. Ye kṛṣṇa tattva vetta sei guru haya. Anyone who knows Kṛṣṇa, he becomes guru. Otherwise not. The first test is you may be scientist, philosopher, educationist, whatever you may be, but ask him, "Do you know Kṛṣṇa?" If he says, "No," then he is a fool. That's all. This is the test. (chuckles) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So Ambarisa Mahārāja, do you agree?

Ambarīṣa: Yes. It's a good test.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Goldsmith, they take a stone, black stone. Do you know? And they rub the gold on the stone, and they can immediately say whether it is gold or not. So our, that stone, is Kṛṣṇa. If anyone knows Kṛṣṇa, then it is gold. (laughter)

Devotee (3): Haribol! Jaya Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise it is bogus.

Indian man (5): It is very good.

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. Formerly these goldsmith boys, their father simply taught how to test gold. And as soon as he learns, he opens a shop and he earns thousands and thousands of rupees. No education. Simply by...

Morning Walk -- November 16, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Our plan is the best because before meeting such catastrophies, go back to home, back to Godhead. This is the best. They are seeing the catastrophe, but they have no way to escape. That is the difference between them and ourselves. Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) ...said that "There is no need of God, but there is need of girl, of a girl." He said that. Then what is the difference between a scientist and a dog? The dog also does not know what is God, but another female dog he wants. Huh? What is the difference? Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Then it is proved that he is no better than animal. The animal requires another opposite sex, but he does not know God. Then where is the difference? (break)

Brahmānanda: You know that the Detroit house, the house in Detroit? The president, he wrote in his letter. I neglected to ask you. He wanted to have a name for that temple.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Brahmānanda: So Ambarisa prabhu says that he was thinking of New Keśighāṭa, because it's situated near the water.

Prabhupāda: Keśighāṭa we have already given in New Vṛn...

Ambarisa: It's right on a river. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...name that... Kṛṣṇa... They brought the assembly house from heaven and located in Dvāraka. There is a name like that. I shall give you the name.

Brahmānanda: (break) ...robi. You can give a name for Nairobi mandir.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Devasadan.

Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Blood or skin, the same thing. The same thing. The same thing.

Dr. Patel: All the Aryans have got B blood group in majority of them.

Prabhupāda: Skin comes from the blood. You know better than..., medical practitioner.

Dr. Patel: Skin is nourished by blood. It comes from something else.

Prabhupāda: So that is not the way. When there is symptoms... The symptom is... First symptom is that he must know that he is not body, and he must know what is God. Then it is Aryan civilization.

Dr. Patel: Ātma-niṣṭha and īśvara-niṣṭha.

Prabhupāda: Hm. And yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke, sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). That is animal.

Dr. Patel: Kuṇape is a dead body. Kuṇape tri-dhātuke.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is dead. What is this body? It is already dead. Just like motorcar. It is dead lump of matter. So long the driver is, it is moving. Similarly, the body is dead. So without understanding of spiritual identification, simply decorating this body means aprāṇasya hi dehasya mandanam loka-rañjanam. This is going on, loka-rañjanam, just to captivate some foolish person that they are advanced in civilization. What is that civilization? But we can understand, this civilization and the dog, there is no difference. There is no difference.

Dr. Patel: Now there will be no difference because there is just like dogs, the society, no marriages and all those... We talked yesterday. There are facts. That is going on everywhere.

Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: All sinful activity. Ugra-karma. And if you drink wine, then you must require meat. Otherwise your liver function will be bad. There must be lump of meat. And as soon as wine and meat combine, then you require illicit sex. It is one after another. This is scientific. So we stop immediately: "Stop these four principles." Then one will be free from sinful life. Then he'll understand what is God. Otherwise not possible. A sinful man cannot understand what is God. Why the whole world is godless? On account of the sinful life, they cannot understand.

Devotee (2): So the means of production have to be changed into pious type of...

Prabhupāda: No. If you stop sinful activities, the production will automatically stop. If there is no market for wine, then it will stop automatically. So you stop drinking, and the market for liquor will stop. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we can return. (break) ...has not come today? He is entangled with his grandson.

Devotee (2): What is that?

Prabhupāda: Kejiya? Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) Yan-maithunādi gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). (laughs) Beginning, sex. Again sex, again sex, again sex. (break)

Mahāṁsa: ...now we have about sixteen to eighteen thousand kg's of rice stocked up. We just harvested all the rice. We got a fairly good yield, not exceptionally good because it was our first attempt.

Prabhupāda: So your invested money is realized?

Mahāṁsa: Yes. If we sell that, we can get at least double.

Morning Walk -- November 26, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: He is here?

Tejās: Yes. I don't know why he didn't come.

Harikeśa: So actually the one thing that makes Kṛṣṇa consciousness different from other religious processes is the practical application of knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Full knowledge, perfect knowledge. And other religious systems, they have no knowledge. They say of God something but they do not know what is God. We know what is God and who is God. That is the difference.

Devotee (3): But they have no pure devotee in which to put their faith.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (3): They have no one in which to put their faith.

Prabhupāda: Whatever they may be, put because they do not know God, therefore it is cheating. Just see, India's capital and so dirty thing.

Harikeśa: You were saying about Eisenhower and Nehru?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: Nehru was trying to hide the villages.

Prabhupāda: But any intelligent man can understand. Any foreigner who will come will understand how India is poverty-stricken by this picture. (?)

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: If one chants Hare Kṛṣṇa jokingly, that is also good.

Dr. Patel: That's it. Yesterday morning you came?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: I thought you were coming tonight. Because you, your letter has come that you reach on the (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: What is that? God says "Let there be creation," and there was creation. Why three months?

Dr. Patel: Ah, that is, we are not... (laughing)

Prabhupāda: He says "Let there be creation"; there was creation.

Dr. Patel: It was the will of God, so this is also the will of God.

Prabhupāda: Here you see, God says, "You come here," immediately you come. "You go there," immediately you go there. (Dr. Patel laughs loudly) You cannot bring the water by your scientific process, immediately. But when God says "Immediately"—within a second. (sound of waves in background) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: I am going to give you a small piece of news. My, that small daughter, she also took first-class, first distinction name.

Prabhupāda: Oh, bolo(?).

Dr. Patel: She also stood first. My son also stood first and got the gold medal. She also got the same, by your grace!

Prabhupāda: (laughs) By Kṛṣṇa's grace.