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What is God (Conversations 1968 - 1973)

Expressions researched:
"what is God" |"what is actually God" |"what is real God" |"what is really God" |"what is that God" |"what is this God"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: "what is God" or "what is actually God" or "what is that God" or "what is really God"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- February 1, 1968, Los Angeles:

Interviewer: What effect to the followers does chanting give? I heard from one that it transports them to a utopian type situation. I wondered if you could elaborate on that a little more.

Prabhupāda: Which situation?

Interviewer: Utopian-like, where there is no harm, no..., all is good, and...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, this our process is chanting. It is very innocent. If you sit down and chant with us, you have no loss, no harm, but there is great gain. You see? By chanting, you gradually cleanse your heart and you can realize what is God. That is the greatest gain. Human life is meant for knowing God. The animals, they cannot know, although the bodily demands of the animal and the human being are the same. The animals, they sleep; man also sleeps. Animal, they eat; man also eats. The animal, they are also afraid of some enemy; man is also afraid of some enemy. The animals, they mate with the opposite sex, and men also do that. But what is the special significance of man? He can understand about God, but the animal cannot. Therefore if a man does not take to this understanding, he is no better than animal. A man who has no God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is no better than animal because he has no other business than the four principles of bodily demands. So that is also prevalent in animal kingdom. Therefore this is a privilege for human being, to understand about God, and as such, in every human society there is some sort of religious principle. This religious principle means to understand God. Either you take it, Christianity or Judaism or Hinduism, every religion is trying to understand God according to their capacity. So without this understanding, means Kṛṣṇa consciousness, human life is as good as animal life.

Interviewer: Do you believe that other religions have some truth to them because they all are...

Interview -- February 1, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is offering respect. The whole, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is to ask people to surrender to God. They have rebelled against God. Somebody says, "There is no God." Somebody says that "I am God." These nonsense things are to be eradicated from human society. So they should be trained to submit. So the submission is symbolized by bowing down: "Yes, you are great; I am humble." This should be taught. Otherwise, whimsically somebody is thinking that "I am God." They do not know what is God. It is most foolish proposal if somebody claims that he is God. He is dog. We very much hate this proposal, when a man claims that he is God. It is most blasphemous.

Interviewer: Have you... Did you... Well, you've only been over here about four years. But have there been dropouts, out of the movement, of the hundred that were initiated?

Prabhupāda: They are doing nicely. They are making progress. They are understanding the philosophy. They are working for it. Now I am the only man who came from India, and still, I am one. I have no... There are many Indians, but I have no Indian follower here. Of course, in India we have got. That's a different thing. But these, all these American boys, they are cooperating with me. That means they are taking this movement very seriously. We have got two great papers, magazines, already, Back to Godhead. One is published from New York, and the other is published from Montreal. (break) In French language. Montreal it is published in French language, and they are well received. Recently I have received one letter from my disciple, Janardana. He is Janus Dambergs, M.A., he is the editor of that paper. He is a very good scholar in French language. His wife is also good scholar, Muna. She is also very good scholar in French language. So they are publishing, and the magazine is well received by the French-speaking people there. And we have contemplation to publish the same magazine in German language also from Germany.

Interview -- March 9, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Then we became boy, then we became youth. Now we are, I am becoming old, and generally, when this body will be useless, I will have to take another body. This is the way. Unfortunately, the people, they do not believe in the next life. Although in every day affair they are experiencing that "I am eternal. I can remember the days of my childhood. I can remember the days of my youthhood, my boyhood, and I am still working. That means I am continuously there although my body in different ways have changed." So it is a fact that even after changing this body, you will have another body. Just like you are sitting in this room. Now, if you vacate this room, that does not mean you are finished. You have gone in some other room. So this is a great science. And people are neglecting this science. They have no, I mean to say, information. There are so many departments in universities, technological, medical, engineering, but where is the department to know or understand what is this life, what is God, what is our relationship? So this is not very good civilization. So there is life after this life. Just like progressive life, a child is progressing to youthhood, the youth is aspiring to become a big man, important man. As in this life there is progressive life, similarly, life after life, there is also progress. There are different grades of life. So we get information from authoritative books that there are 8,400,000's of different grades of life, and there are 900,000's of aquatic life, two million species of plants and trees, about eleven hundred thousand species of life of birds, three million types of species of beast, and 400,000 species of this human body. Out of that 400,000's, different kinds of human bodies, the civilized body is a great boon. At that time we can make further progress. Either we can transfer to other planets... The standard of living, comforts, are many, many thousands times better than this planet. But in this book, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, we get information that within this material universe, wherever you go, either you remain in this planet or you go to the moon planet or to the sun planet, or there are millions and trillions of planets... The highest planetary system is called Brahmaloka. There the duration of life is very, very great. You cannot calculate even twelve hours of their days. These are described in this book, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam arhad yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17).

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Subāla: I was looking for a man who could tell me the answers to the questions that Swamiji mentioned before, such as "What am I? What is God? What am I doing here?" And Swamiji was the first one who could answer these questions satisfactorily. And I could see that the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is no phony bluff. I could see it really works because I saw people making progress in it. And I made progress myself by chanting. So I accepted him as my spiritual master, because he was the only one...

Interviewer: Do you accept a new name?

Subāla: Yes.

Interviewer: Well, what is your name?

Subāla: Subala dāsa Adhikārī.

Interviewer: So each one accepts a new name.

Subāla: Yes. The initiation by the spiritual master is known as the second birth. You enter the spiritual world by taking a second birth. Your spiritual life begins.

Interviewer: Do you still live in, quote, the rest of the world, the outside world, or is your whole life within the Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Subāla: My whole life is within Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but yet, at the same time, I function within the world at large.

Interviewer: We have a lot of people who have some questions here, and caller, you're on the air on KGO with the Swami. Hello.

Caller: Hello?

Interviewer: Go ahead, sir.

Caller: Is this Swami?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Caller: Is this Swami?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Caller: What is God?

Prabhupāda: What is God? That's your question?

Caller: Yes.

Prabhupāda: God means the controller. Everywhere we have got some controller. So... But you will find there is another controller over the controller. So if you go on searching one after another, controller and the supercontroller, and, or the next controller, next controller, in this way, when you come to a place when the controller is absolute, there is no other controller, He is God.

Interviewer: Thank you caller. That's... Something... I get the impression that all the calls today are people within Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I would like to hear some other people with questions here. Caller, you're on the air with the Swami on KGO.

Caller: Yes. Swami, you say you have to know yourself. Now, how does a person go about knowing when he knows himself, who he is and what he is. In other words, when does he reach the stage where he says, "Hah! I know where I am and what I am."

Prabhupāda: Yes, there are two different processes of acquiring knowledge. One process is to research oneself by his own endeavor, by his limited sense speculation. And another process is to know from the authority. Just like deductive process, we say, man is mortal. This knowledge is received from higher authorities, just like our teacher or parents, we understand that man is mortal. Another process is one can make research whether actually man is mortal.

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Prabhupāda: So far Hindu religion is concerned, it is a very broad thinking. The Hindu religion, Vedic religion, is divided into two kinds of philosophers. One kinds of philosopher is the impersonalist. They take the Absolute Truth as impersonal, all-pervading impersonal. And the another philosophers, they take that the Supreme Absolute Truth is person. The impersonal feature is one of the features of that person, but ultimately he is person. So without person there cannot be any question of love. Therefore the section who believes in person... Not believing, they know actually what He is, and there is method how to love that person. The example is given: just like the sun and the sunshine and the predominating Deity in the sun globe, similarly, one who comes to the light, he first of all sees the sunshine. That is impersonal. Then, if he goes further, if he is able to go to the sun planet, that is localized. And if he can enter into the sun planet and see the predominating deity there, then he is a person. So this is a vast science. People are too much engrossed with material activities. They do not try to understand actually what is the position of Absolute Truth, what is the position of the soul. Practically in the present day they are more or less animalistic. Just like animal does not know anything beyond eating, sleeping, mating and defending, similarly, the modern civilization is too much busy for increasing the method of eating and increasing the process of comfortable life or sleeping, and increasing the matter of, method of sexual life, or increasing the method of defense. So these things, are found even in the animals. They also eat, they also sleep, they also have sex life and they also defend in their own way. So human life is not limited within these four walls. He has to understand what he is, what is this world, what is this creation, what is God, how it is going on. But they are neglecting that fact. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness will give information to this department of knowledge.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: He's God. Just see. This is going on.

Journalist: Do you know him?

Prabhupāda: I have heard his name. I don't care to know these people. He's making some propaganda he's God.

Journalist: He says he hasn't spoken in forty years, forty-five years.

Prabhupāda: That means people do not know what is God. Suppose if I come to you, if I say I am President Johnson, will you accept me?

Journalist: No (laughing) I don't think I would.

Prabhupāda: But these people, rascals, will accept him as God because they do not know what is God. That is the defect. We know what is God, therefore we cannot accept any rascal declaring that he's God. That is the difference.

Journalist: Well it's just absolutely absurd that somebody comes out and tells you he's God.

Prabhupāda: But how much rascal he is who accepts him as God. He's rascal number one. He is a cheater and the man who is cheated he is also another rascal. He does not know what is God. Anybody comes as God, as God has become so cheap it can be available in the market, everywhere.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Journalist: Well of course the western concept that man is created in the image of God, consequently God must look like man kind of thing, therefore any man can be God.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. You have got so many scientists. Just find out what is the image of God, whether his form is not... Where is that department? You have no such department. You have got so many department, technology department, this department. Where is that department, what is God to know? Is there any department of knowledge?

Journalist: I don't know if... There's no God department working tonight I'll tell you that right now.

Prabhupāda: That is the difficulty. And here is, here is the Kṛṣṇa conscious movement is the department of knowledge how to know God. Then you'll not accept any rascal as God, you'll accept only God as God. (end)

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Everything for jīva souls, all relationship. Kṛṣṇa is one, the Supreme, and all the jīva souls are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore the eternal relationship is there. Now they are exhibited in these twelve kinds of humor, either directly or indirectly. Jīva soul, a part and parcel, cannot be separated from the Supreme. Sun and the light, electric bulb, and the diffusion of light, they cannot be separated. But this portion is covered. It appears darkness. So when it is covered, that is called māyā, and he thinks that "I have no relationship with God," or "I am God," "There is no God." This is māyā. He is covered. He cannot see. So he has to be treated by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness treatment, and the māyā will be separated, and he will see, "Ah, yes, I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa." Then he comes to the direct relationship. Anyone, so-called spiritualist or transcendentalist, if he is claiming that "There is no God," "I am God," "There is voidness," these are all disturbing positions, different symptoms of this disease of māyā. It is disease. How one can think of, that he is God? That means he does not know what is God. If I say here that "I am President Nixon," would you accept it? Would you accept? Any one of you, if I say that "I am President Nixon," will you accept? Why? Why? Why? Why you do not accept me? I say, "I am President Nixon." Why do you not accept? Why?

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. He is American. He is human being. In so many qualities you are one. But you cannot claim for that, you are President Nixon. You should understand in that way. In so many respect, qualities, you are one with God, but that does not mean you are God. God is one. That means you have no complete understanding. Just like in spite of your becoming American or human being, you deny to identify yourself with President Nixon because you have full knowledge of President Nixon and yourself. And as soon as you say, "I am God," that means you have no full knowledge of God. You are insane. You do not know what is God. That very thing immediately asserts that you are unknown factor about God. God is said, "Great," but you are claiming that greatness. That means you do not know how great He is. A tiny factor, you are claiming that "I am God," without having that greatness. That means insane, insanity. The same way: if you claim that "I am President Nixon," that is insanity. Similarly, God is, how great He is, how much greater than President Nixon. You deny to become one with President Nixon, and you accept to be one with God? How much insane you are. Just try to understand. Yes?

Child: How many arms does Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva have?

Prabhupāda: That you shall know later on. Not now.

Janārdana: I've read in Bhagavad-gītā that he who knows the self does not do action nor causes action to be done. So what is the soul's, the spirit soul's, relationship to actions performed both in material consciousness and in spiritual, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Any religion. Any religion. If he's serious about religion. If he takes the religion as a scapegoat, that is different thing. If he wants to understand religion and if he takes seriously to religion, then he will understand. We want serious persons. Now, according to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, religion means creation of the laws of God. Dharmaṁ tu sakṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Laws of God. Who will deny it? Who will deny it? Any religion, Christian, Muhammadan or any. Who can deny that religion is the laws of God? Simple explanation. If you ask what is meant by religion, religion is laws of God. That's all. And if you want to know what is God, that is also replied. "The original source of everything." So one should try to understand in this way. But if one wants to remain in his compact ideas and does not want to go further, then it is very difficult. He should be open-minded and appreciating. Then everything is all right. We say, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, it is not that you are necessarily to chant Kṛṣṇa, but if you have no suitable name, then chant Kṛṣṇa. Why do you make differentiate. Every name is the same.

Allen Ginsberg: So if you have no other suitable name, chant Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Chant Kṛṣṇa.

Allen Ginsberg: That's Caitanya's...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Allen Ginsberg: Did He feel there were other suitable names? Did He feel or did He think that...

Prabhupāda: Yes. He said many thousand millions names there are. But if you are serious about God, then... You may have many names by your friends, but any name will do.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: Kalki.

Prabhupāda: Kalki.

Allen Ginsberg: Now, what is Kalki's nature?

Prabhupāda: Kalki's nature, that is described in Bhāgavata. He will come just like a prince, royal dress with sword, and on horseback, simply killing, no preaching. All rascals killed. No more preaching. (laughing) That is the last. There will be no brain to understand what is God.

Allen Ginsberg: There will be no brain to understand God?

Prabhupāda: They will be so dull, so dull. It requires brain to understand. Just like in the Bhāgavata it is said that evaṁ prasanna-manaso (SB 1.2.20), "fully joyful," bhagavad-bhakti-yoga, "by practice of bhakti-yoga." Evaṁ prasanna-manaso bhagavad-bhakti-yogataḥ, mukta-saṅgasya: "and freed from all material contamination." He can understand God. Do you think God is so cheap thing, anyone will understand? Because they do not understand, they present something nonsense: "God is like this. God is like that. God is like that." And when God Himself comes, that "Here I am, Kṛṣṇa," they don't accept it. They'll create their own God.

Allen Ginsberg: So Kalki comes at the end of the Kali-yuga?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Allen Ginsberg: And is Kalki connected with the Kali-yuga cycle?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kalki, yes.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: To cheat the atheists.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sammohāya sūra-dviṣam (SB 1.3.24). Sūra-dviṣam means atheists. Surat. Sura-dvisam means those who are envious of Lord's devotees. That means atheist. So to bewilder them. What is that bewildering? This atheist class, they became so much absorbed in this animal-killing, they forgot everything about God. So they said, "What is God? We don't mind." So Lord Buddha says, "Yes, there is no God." Lord's philosophy is: "There is no God. Void. There is no God. But what I say, you follow. Yes. That's all right." But he is God. Is it not cheating?

Allen Ginsberg: Yes, except that he claims to be neither God nor not God.

Prabhupāda: Huh? But he never said that "I am God." He said there is no God.

Allen Ginsberg: No. He doesn't say there's no God either. He says...

Prabhupāda: That's it. That's anyway.

Allen Ginsberg: He says, all conceptions of the existence of the self, as well as all conceptions of the nonexistence of the self, as well as all conceptions of the existence of a supreme self, as well as all conceptions of the nonexistence of the supreme self are equally arbitrary, being only conceptions.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a jugglery of words. So his principle was that they did not believe in God. So still the Buddhists says, "You don't believe in God." So but they are worshiping God, Lord Buddha. There are so many temples. In the same way, as we worship. So this is transcendental cheating.

Discussion with Guests -- December 23, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: That you have to test. Now I have given you this one formula. By following any guru or any principle, if you actually develop your love of God, then it is nice. Otherwise it is useless waste of time. That is the test. But they, so far I know, these yogis, they are themselves God. They say that everyone is God. And who is dog? So I think it is not very congenial. How everyone can be God? Then what is the meaning of God?

Guest (1): (inaudible)

Prabhupāda: If everyone is God then what is the meaning of God? You must give definition of God. If you do not, then you do not know what is God. Therefore you are asking...

Guest (1): (inaudible)

Prabhupāda: So it is a great science. It is not bogus propaganda. And based on Bhagavad-gītā and Vedic literatures. Not that it is imaginary. No. There is...(inaudible), realized persons. There is chance of...(inaudible). So if you are here now, take advantage of this great science. And we are prepared to submit... (many people talking)

Guest (2) (Indian man): I want to love everyone.

Prabhupāda: Then you... That is bogus. You cannot love everybody. If you love God, then you can love everybody. Because God is everything. So just like if you pour water on the root...

Guest (2): If God is everything, then why don't you, not loving one by one? Why...?

Discussion with Guests -- December 23, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: No. In relationship with God... What is matter? Matter is another manifestation of God's energy. Just like if you love yourself, your body, then naturally you love your finger, the part of the body. Therefore God is the supreme whole. If you love God, then you can understand that I have to love everybody.

Guest (3) (Indian man): What is God?

Prabhupāda: What is God? God... Can you define God?

Guest (3): No.

Guest (2): I think the trouble is... God is this...

Guest (3): Is God supposed to be energy or is God supposed to be...

Prabhupāda: Energy is God's energy. Just like sun and sunshine. Sunshine is the energy of sun. Just try to understand. The energy, sunshine, and the sun is not different. But still if you are satisfied with the energy sunshine, it is not sun. Try to understand this philosophy.

Guest (3): Are you saying that energy is God? God is energy?

Discussion with Guests -- December 23, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: You chant and you will understand. If you have no child, then how can you understand what is the labor of producing a child?

Guest (3): But then it is like saying that if you haven't ever leaped into a well, you don't know what will happen to you if you leap into a well.

Prabhupāda: First of all you do not know yourself. The first ignorance is that you are identifying yourself with this body, which you are not. First of all try to understand yourself, then you will understand what is God. You do not know yourself.

Guest (3): But I am God, right? I am God. You are God too.

Prabhupāda: You are dog.

Guest (3): But you are me and I am you. We are both God. Right?

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Guest (3): Why not?

Prabhupāda: You are not God because God... You do not know what is the meaning of God. What do you mean by God? First of all define.

Guest (3): Everything is God.

Discussion with Guests -- December 23, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: If you apply that definition, then you are God. First of all define what is God.

Guest (3): God is everything. God is it.

Prabhupāda: That is not the definition. God is not everything.

Guest (3): And it is God. It is all it.

Prabhupāda: I say everything is God's energy. Everything is not God.

Guest (3): Everything is not God?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like the same example I gave immediately that the sunshine and the sun. Sunshine is not different from the sun.

Guest (2): How can the sun itself be different from it's energy? Sunshine is energy, sun is energy, and both of them...

Prabhupāda: No. This is an example. Sunshine is also energy. Everything material is an energy of the Lord. That's all right. But I'm giving you the example that sunshine and the sun is one, but at the same time different, simultaneously. You cannot accept sunshine as the sun. Suppose you are in the sunshine, you cannot say that you are in the sun planet.

Discussion with Guests -- December 23, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: That's all. Now if by serving God I can serve whole humanity...

Guest (4): That's good.

Prabhupāda: That's good. But you, how many human beings you can serve? So my process is better.

Guest (4): But I don't know what is God, but I know man within which God is present, a part of God is present.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That's all right. That means we are, I mean to say for argument's sake. If God is everything...

Guest (4): We are the parts of God.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Now parts of God, just like your finger is part of your body. Suppose if you wash your finger, does it mean you are taking bath whole body?

Guest (4): No, no, no, no. No.

Prabhupāda: Then how we can serve the whole by serving the part?

Guest (4): Well, because it is a problem today, and right now, we country...

Prabhupāda: Your argument is that service of man is service of God. That is your point. I say that if service of man is service of God, then service of God is service of man. First of all you yes or no, you say it.

Guest (4): It is one and the same but because I don't know God...

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1970, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (9): ...and your ceremony...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, if you go anywhere, if you want to preach Hinduism, why they should be interested in Hinduism? They can hear some words. But we are not talking of Hinduism and Mohammedanism; we are talking on the science of God.

Guest (9): The true philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is God? What is the conception of God? Oh, they have accepted, therefore: "Yes, here it is right conception." Yes.

Guest (9): Go back to Godhead.

Prabhupāda: Back to Godhead.

Guest (9): Go back to Godhead. (conversation among Indians about BTG's)

Guest (9): I distributed what I got.

Prabhupāda: No, I shall arrange to distribute. I am getting fifty thousand Back to Godheads. Fifty thousand. I shall distribute.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...(Hindi) We haven't got to present Kṛṣṇa as Indian or Hindu. Kṛṣṇa is neither of them. Kṛṣṇa says, claims, that "Every living entity is My part and parcel. I am the seed-giving father." So therefore it has become successful. I never said that "You become a Hindu." "You accept Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and try to understand the philosophy." What business they have got to become Hindu? But they want to know what is God. Oh, that we have been confident.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Oh. So we were talking of Ajamila, a brāhmaṇa resident of Kānyakubja, presently known as Kanauj. So, kānyakubje dvijaḥ kaścid asit patir..., asit kaścid dāsī-patir ajāmilaḥ, nāmnā naṣṭa-sadācāro dāsyaḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. That, what is known as, at the present, prostitute, they were know as dāsya, dāsī. (aside:) Don't make sound, "cut, cut." Silent. Dāsī... The kṣatriya kings also, when they married, with dowry many maidservants would follow the queen. That was the kṣatriya system. So Ajamila was the illegal husband of a prostitute, dāsī, dāsī-pati. Actually one should be husband of dharma-pati, religiously married, not a friend or a husband of illegal marriage. That is not allowed. Dāsī-patir ajāmilaḥ nāmnā... Ajāmila nāmnā. His name was Ajāmila. Why the sound is in...? It is not possible to charge? "Cut, cut cut, cut." Naṣṭa-sadācāraḥ. Sadācāra means good behavior. Why good behavior was lost? Dāsyaḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. Because he was associating with a prostitute, illegal sex. Therefore, anyone who wants to make progress in spiritual life, he must be sadācāra. His behavior must be very regulated. Asadācārī, unclean, nonregulated, cannot make any progress. If somebody says that "Whatever you like, you can do. There is no difference. You can imagine your own way..." This is going on nowadays. "Whatever you like, you can do. You can imagine your own way of self-realization." But that is not recommended in the Vedic literatures. One must be sadācāra. This is the beginning of sadācāra, to rise early in the morning, to cleanse, then chant, or chant the Vedic mantras or, simplified as in the present age, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, mahā-mantra. This is the beginning of sadācāra. So sadācāra means to become freed from sinful reaction. Unless one follows the regulative principles he cannot be freed. And unless one is fully freed from sinful reaction he cannot understand what is God. Those who are not in sadācāra, regulative principles, for them... Just like animals, they are not expected to follow any... Of course, by nature they follow regulative principles.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: We are fighting between the different religions because there is no Kṛṣṇa religion, no eternal religion, temporary religion. "I am Christian," "I am Hindu ," "I am Muslim." Therefore, to solve all the problems the Kṛṣṇa consciousness: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ (BG 18.66). Take to Kṛṣṇa; everything will be solved. So they are reading Bhagavad-gītā but they do not know this. Therefore we have to preach. For thirteen years they are attending this Bhagavad-gītā class or Gītā Bhavan, but nobody knows that this is the Gītā, this is the fact. Why? (Hindi) You tell me. So Bhagavad-gita As It Is we are presenting, as it is. Then it will be nice. If you understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is, then you'll be profited. If you make your irrelevant commentaries, that "Kṛṣṇa means this, and Pāṇḍava means this, and the Kurukṣetra means another thing, another thing," volumes of books and years together lecturing, what is benefit? You do not know the principles. Simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam.

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ
viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ
notpādayed ratiṁ yadi
śrama eva hi kevalam
(SB 1.2.8)

If anyone is serving the cause of his religion very perfectly, very nicely, so-called nicely, but after serving or observing the rules and regulation, one's religious principles, if he does not understand what is God and relationship with Him and does not become attracted to Kṛṣṇa, or God, then all, whatever he has done, it is simply waste of time. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice and so important. Aiye Aiye. You can make some place here. Make. Oh, you have to go. Now available. Available. (?) Yes, we are ready. Come. By who? He did not know? Then where...? (end)

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bala-mūrti-tejaḥ. So this is the scientific process. It is vijñāna. Tad-vijñānam. And in the Seventh Chapter in Bhagavad-gītā it is stated, jñānaṁ vijñāna-sahitaṁ. Jñānaṁ vijñāna-sahitaṁ. It is vijñāna. It is science.

Guest (3): Jñāna means knowledge.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Vijñāna is practical application.

Guest (3): When you apply jñāna and...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is vijñāna. So jñāna knowledge, first knowledge, is what is God, what is God and what is my relation with Him. This is knowledge. Then you... When you act according to that knowledge, that is vijñāna. That is bhakti. When you understand fully well that "God is great, and I am a small minute part and parcels of God," and then you understand that the part and parcel's duty is to serve the whole... Is it not? Just like the finger is part and parcel of my body. Its duty is to serve the whole body. Similarly, if we accept, if we understand, that "I am part and parcel of God; then my duty is to serve God." But people are being misled that he is thinking God himself. Although he is under so many restrictions and stricture of the material nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāṇi guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā (BG 3.27). He is so foolish and rascal that he is thinking, "I am independent." Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā karta aham iti manyate. He is strictly under the stringent laws of material nature, but still, he is thinking falsely that "I am supreme. I am independent." So therefore surrender required, that "I am not supreme." That is knowledge. That is knowledge in the Bhagavad-gītā. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: (BG 7.19) "After many, many births of this speculation, when actually he becomes jñānavān, wise, then he surrenders." Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). So unless we surrender, so long we think that "I am independent, I am God, I am Supreme," these are all illusions. What do you think?

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: It is illusion, simply illusion. If I am God, how I have become so much dependent on the laws of material nature? Why I have accepted this body which I do not want? What kind of God I am? So the whole world is full of these ideas. So this movement is a revolutionary movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Guest (5): (Hindi) What is the meaning of God.

Prabhupāda: He does not... He does not know what is meaning of God. He thinks that God is something plaything. Therefore he claimed that "I am God." He does not know what is God. Therefore God personally showing—He's coming, Kṛṣṇa: "What is God, see." God is from very beginning God. Kṛṣṇa, from the birth He is God. He hasn't got to meditate. He hasn't got to go to the forest and..., to become God. He is God.

Guest (5): God is made for, sir.

Prabhupāda: Not "God is made." God is never made. God is God.

Guest (5): But, sir, G means (Hindi?)

Prabhupāda: That is your speculation. G means this, O means this, this means this. That you can interpret in so many ways but God is God. God is great. Brahman. Brahman means great, Parabrahman, the greatest. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). That is Kṛṣṇa. Is it not stated in the Bhagavad-gītā?

Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:

Journalist (1): Except people who have accepted the Kṛṣṇa consciousness presumably. That...

Prabhupāda: Well, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not so easy. First of all, you were talking about the Christian religion. I say that Christian religion or Hindu religion or Muslim religion, there may be different religions, but what is the aim of religion? That you should understand. The aim of religion is to know God. If you profess some religion, but if I ask you what is God, if you cannot explain, then what is the use of your becoming religious?

Journalist (1): Probably none. But people like to have, or seem to like to have a religion.

Prabhupāda: They don't like. They don't like God. They don't like God. As soon as somebody speaks of God, "They say they are crazy." So actually there is no Christian, no Hindu, no Muslim. All demons. That's all.

Journalist (1): How do you stop that?

Prabhupāda: Well, become religious. If you are really Christian, that is all right. But you are not Christian because you are violating the orders of Lord Jesus Christ. Lord Jesus Christ sacrificed his life and he says that he atoned for your sins, but you are not stopping your sinful life, and still you are claiming to be Christian. The fun is going on. Actually there is no Christian. Otherwise Christian religion is very nice religion. Yes.

Journalist (1): Do you think that you can help large numbers of people in this country understand that...

Prabhupāda: I can help everyone provided he takes my help. If you refuse my help, how can I help you?

Journalist (1): No, I'm merely suggesting that you would...

Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Suppose... We are giving Kṛṣṇa, presenting Kṛṣṇa, as God, and we are giving God's name, address, place, everything. Yes. (laughter) Don't laugh. It is serious. If you refuse to accept Kṛṣṇa as God, then you present your God. Give me His the address, name and occupation. Can you give me?

Journalist (1): No.

Prabhupāda: Then you take from me. Why you are refusing? If you do not know then take it from me. And if you know better than me, you give it to me. You do not know; still, you will not accept. Then what is your position? That you don't want to know God. When I say, "Do you know what is God?" you say, "No." When I present God, you say, "Why shall I accept? It is your God." At least we have got some God. But you know, do not know what is God. So my position is better than you.

Journalist (1): Well, if you accept. Again, it's a slight digression.

Prabhupāda: No. You have no idea of God. You cannot give name, address, occupation of God. I can give.

Journalist (1): Do you need to have a name and address and occupation for God?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Just like when you come, I ask you what you are: "What is your name? What is your address? What is occupation?" This is the first introduction. If I do not know your name, address, occupation, then what is the use of talking with you?

Journalist (1): Well, I would... Again, its a very interesting concept because often in Western civilization God is defined more as an idea than as a, something...

Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That I was speaking. That if you are true Christian, you will see God. But who is true Christian, let me see first of all.

Journalist (2): Have you got a particular mission for London?

Prabhupāda: I have particular mission for the whole world? Why London? London is included in the world.

Journalist (2): What is that mission?

Prabhupāda: That mission is to make you understand what is God. You cannot say what is God. If I ask you, can you say what is God?

Journalist (2): I can't. Can you?

Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to learn.

Journalist (2): Can you say what is God?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Yes. Therefore you have to become student.

Journalist (2): Tell me what is God.

Prabhupāda: First of all, you become a student, otherwise you'll not be understand... That I say God is the supreme enjoyer, God is the supreme proprietor. That I already told. Can you understand this? Can you refute this, that God is not the supreme proprietor?

Journalist (2): What sort of people do you want?

Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: No, why you are going away? You are talking one thing and then going another thing.

Journalist (2): I have to do, I'm afraid.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Then I cannot waste my time. You question one thing. Make a solution.

Journalist (2): What sort of people do you want to become students?

Prabhupāda: Tell him, Bhagavān.

Bhagavān: We want everyone to become our students. No one has a good understanding of what is God.

Journalist (2): I can't get this on the microphone.

Prabhupāda: You can take instruction from the students who are actually trying to understand God.

Journalist (2): I read somewhere that possibly you wanted to convert people who were politicians and businessmen. Why?

Prabhupāda: Who said? Where you have got this idea that I am trying to convert politicians? Where?

Journalist (2): In a newspaper.

Prabhupāda: Where is that newspaper? This is not a fact. You are telling something which is not a fact.

Journalist (2): You want to convert everyone.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone requires to understand God. Why politicians and newspapermen? Everyone. God is for everyone. Everyone requires... The human life is meant for understanding God. Why politicians and businessmen? Without knowing God, he cannot be happy, whatever he may be.

Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Oh yes. Certainly.

Journalist (2): Which problems?

Prabhupāda: All problems. Whatever problems are there. Social, political, religious, cultural, everything.

Journalist (2): The problems that exist in Ireland and India?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everywhere. You simply give education to understand what is God. Then all problems will be solved.

Journalist (2):.What about yourself? How long have you had this understanding and awareness of God?

Prabhupāda: How long you want? (laughter) I have had this under-standing from my birth. My father was God conscious, he taught me how to become God conscious.

Journalist (2): And you are in fact the spiritual leader of these students. What does that mean?

Prabhupāda: Huh? Because I want to teach them what is God. If anyone is interested with God, I can teach him.

Journalist (2): How long does it take?

Prabhupāda: It takes one second.

Journalist (2): Well, can we do it?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You accept, surrender to God, then you become God conscious.

Journalist (2): And what happens to me then?

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: No. If you pour water on the leaves, but you don't water on the root, it will dry up. If you put food on your nose, on your eyes, the eyes will be blind and the nostril will be suffocated, but if you put in the proper place, in the stomach, the energy will be distributed.

Dr. Weir: You know that's just an analogy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is natural. Similarly, if God is the root of everything, as we understand from Vedānta-sūtra. God means the original root of everything. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The description of Absolute Truth, of God is there in the Vedānta-sūtra. The first aphorism is, "What is God?" Athāto brahma jijñāsā, inquiry about God. The next aphorism is "God is that which is the root of everything, from which everything emanates." That is the perfect definition of God, the origin of everything. So the same example as God, that the root is the origin of the whole tree.

Dr. Weir: The seed is the origin of the whole tree, if I may say.

Prabhupāda: How you can be origin because you are the effect?

Devotee: The seed.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Śyāmasundara: The seed.

Prabhupāda: The seed. Yes seed. The seed is described in the Bhagavad-gītā: bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). Everything that is living, the root or the seed (indistinct). The seed is God. Bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām. Just like the rose tree, it has got a seed, but wherefrom this seed comes? (guests entering room) Come on. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Give him another... Seed, original seed is God. Your theory of seed is very nice but the original seed of everything is God, the cause of all causes.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 1.5.11 -- January 19, 1972, Jaipur:

Prabhupāda: These people or this revolution is meant for killing the sinful resultant actions of the people. This revolution. Janatā agha, agha means resultant action of sinful life. Janatā agha viplavaḥ. Viplavaḥ means revolution, this very word is used. Tad-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavo yasmin prati-ślokam abaddhavaty api (SB 1.5.11). Such revolutionary literature, even they are not properly composed. Yasmin prati-ślokam abaddham. Not according to the grammatical rules and other rhetorical rules, but the, I mean to say, thoughts and the effects of such revolutionary literature is required. Not the grammatical. The so-called rascals, they are concerned with the grammatical. But those who are actually worker, they are concerned with the thoughts. What is the thought is there? Therefore, it is said that tad-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavo yasmin prati-ślokam abaddhavaty api, nāmāny anantasya yaśo 'nkitāni yat (SB 1.5.11). If there is simply the attempt is there how to glorify the Supreme Lord, that is a fact. It doesn't matter whether it is written in correct language or incorrect language, it doesn't matter. If the whole thought is targeted to glorify the Supreme Lord, then nāmāny anantasya yaśo 'nkitāni yat gṛṇanti gāyanti śṛṇvanti sādhavaḥ. Then those who are actually sādhu, even in spite of all these defects, because the only attempt is to glorify the Lord, then those who are sādhu, those who are devotee, they hear it. Śṛṇvanti gāyanti gṛṇanti. Not only hear, they chant also the same thing. And not only chant, but gṛṇanti, they apply in their actual life. This is the Bhāgavata śloka. Is it clear now? Yes. Tad-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavo (SB 1.5.11). If the thought is revolutionary for transcendental realization, even it is not properly composed from grammatical and literary point of view, because the attempt is there for glorifying the Supreme Lord, all devotees, all great sages, saintly persons, sādhavaḥ, gṛṇanti, they accept. Yes. Gṛṇanti śṛṇvanti, hear with attention, and gāyanti, and chant also. This is the principle. The only center is whether it is meant for awakening God consciousness. That is the central point, not the language(?). But it does not mean that it should not be correctly written. Correctly or incorrectly, if it is spoken by realized soul, that is important. Śṛṇvanti gāyanti. Somehow or other, if the attempt is to glorify the Supreme Lord; otherwise, if the attempt is to kill the Supreme Lord... Just like Dr. Radhakrishnan, what is the value of such erudition? A rascal. That is called (Sanskrit), jugglery of words. It has no value. Anyone who is trying to present... Just like Aurabindo, he has no idea what is Kṛṣṇa and writing so many nonsense things. Vivekananda, he has no idea. Dr. Radhakrishnan. Rabindranath Tagore, he has no idea what is God, but he is writing Gītāñjali.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Goodness means you can understand things. Knowledge. You can know that there is God, that this world is created by Him, and so on, so on, so many things, actual things. The sun is this, the moon is this, perfect knowledge. Even not perfect, he has got some knowledge. That is goodness. And passion means he identifies with this material body. And he tries to gratify his senses only. That is passion. And ignorance means animal life. He does not know what is God, how to become happy, "why I am in this world." Just like you are taking one animal to the slaughterhouse, it will go. But a man will protest. So this is ignorance. The goat, it is to be killed after five minutes, but if you give him a morsel of grass he's happy, he's eating. Just like a child. You are planning to kill her or kill him, he is happy, he's laughing, because innocent. That is ignorance.

Bob: This is... Being in these modes determines your karma, is that correct?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bob: Determines your karma.

Prabhupāda: According to the association of the modes of nature your activities are being contaminated. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22). A man gets higher birth or lower birth according to the association of the guṇa, or the modes of nature.

Bob: So cheating and like that, what mode is that?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Ankle? Oh, there was some... (break)

Bob: ...who is not very aware of God, but...

Prabhupāda: Then he's an animal. The animal does not know what is God. A person who does not know what is God or one who does not try to understand what is God, he's animal. The animals are with four legs, and that animal is with two legs. And Darwin's theory is they are monkeys. So anyone who does not know God or does not try to understand God, he's nothing but animal.

Bob: What about the people in the...the innocent people?

Prabhupāda: The animal is very innocent. You cut its throat, it won't protest. So innocent is not very good qualification. The animals are all innocent. Therefore you get the chance of cutting their throat. So just... To become innocent is not a very good qualification. Our proposition is one must be very, very intelligent, and then he can understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa yei bhaje se baḍa catura. So to become innocent, ignorant, simpleton is not very good qualification. Simplicity is all right, but one should not be unintelligent.

Bob: Can you tell me again what intelligence is?

Prabhupāda: Intelligence means one who knows what he is, what is this world, what is God, what is the interrelation, he's intelligent. If he does not know what he is... The animal does not know what he is. He thinks that he's body. Similarly, any man who does not know what he is, he's not intelligent.

Room Conversation with John Griesser (later initiated as Yadubara Dasa) -- March 10, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, if we open our heart, then open-heartedly, then it will be nice. No reservation. And that open-heartedness means free from designation. That is open-heartedness. If I think, "Oh, I am American. Why shall I take this Indian philosophy?" Or if I think, "I am Christian. Why shall I take the philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā?" then it will not work. One has to be free from these designations. Then it will be easy. I am... God is God, and I am also part and parcel of God, my relationship with God. So let me understand what is that relationship, what is God, what I am. That freedom, that open-heartedness will make it. But if I try to understand as Christian, as Englishman, as Japanese, as Indian, then it will be difficult. Many of our students joined, even initiated, but they could not make them free from these stereotyped ideas. Sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). One must be free from the... Aiye aiye. So let us go. Take the box. (break)

Devotee: I'll try and please you, but I don't think I can do such a nice job.

Prabhupāda: I have seen the Sai's photo. From his photograph, it appears he has a guru. From his appearance, I can understand.

Devotee: I feel that it is my duty to see that the devotees who are staying at the other temples are respectful and are following your wishes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: Some things that Sai mentioned in that letter that I should answer, he asked about photographs, spiritual photographs.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1972, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: You can know directly that "He is doing better than me." What is the difficulty? I can see... Just like all my disciples, they are following me. Why? Because they understand that "Our spiritual master explains about God better than us." Therefore they are surrendering. I am not bribing them. They are not fools. They have got very nice brain to act. So they accept me as the spiritual master brain because they understand it that "He can explain about God better than me." Where is the difficulty? These, all my disciples, surrenders unto me because they have found in me a better brain in explaining what is God. Direct perception. There is no question of indirect understanding. It is direct understanding. And the Vedas also advises that "Go to a better man," śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12), "one who heard better and wise from the Vedic knowledge, and brahma, as a result of it he has become fully devoted to Kṛṣṇa," brahma-niṣṭham. These are the qualifications of spiritual master. His knowledge is perfect according to the Vedic injunction, and by having that knowledge he has become a perfect devotee of the Lord. These two things are to be seen. Then he is a spiritual master.

Martin: But there are many spiritual masters in the world. Each says...

Prabhupāda: Each says, but you have to judge. Just like when you go to purchase two shillings' worth goods, you go to different stores. Everyone says, "Oh, my thing is very nice." But you have to judge which one is best. That depends on you. If you are a fool, then somebody will cheat you. And if you are not a fool, then you will know... Just like these rascals, they call themselves God. Such a fool can cheat another fool only. But one who knows what is God, he'll not accept it. One who knows Kṛṣṇa, he'll not accept him as God. He'll immediately compare, "What you have done like Kṛṣṇa or better than Kṛṣṇa that I shall accept you God? We have already our God, Kṛṣṇa. Now you prove that you are better than Kṛṣṇa or equal to Kṛṣṇa." That he cannot, so why I shall accept him as God? Why shall I accept him as spiritual master?

Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

John Fahey: They cannot understand God(?).

Prabhupāda: That is the difference. A human being can understand what is God, what is my relationship with God, what is my duty in that relationship, what is my aim of life, where I shall go after death, wherefrom I have come. These questions must be there in human form of life; otherwise we are still in the animal kingdom.

Marilyn: Do the animals have no consciousness of God?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Marilyn: Do the animals have no consciousness of God?

Prabhupāda: They have no God consciousness. They do not know what is God.

Marilyn: Somehow I always thought that...

Prabhupāda: Just like children, they do not know what is government. They are satisfied with their eating, sleeping, playing, that's all. They have no other concern. But when one is grown up, he knows what is government. He has to abide by the state laws. Now you are grown up, if you violate the law "Keep to the right," you'll be criminal. But a child, if he violates the law, animal violates the law, he has no... But if a adult person violates the law, he'll be criminal. You cannot say, "I'm free." No. Law will not excuse. But if a children commits something... Suppose you, if you take something from my table, it is for you criminal. But if a child takes something from my table, it is not criminal. In your country especially, if you enter my house or room without permission, that is criminal. Is it not? Trespass.

Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But a child or dog enters, that is not trespassing. A child or dog or cat, they enter without any permission. Therefore this animal kingdom and the human being, there is difference. By the evolutionary process we come to the human form of life. When we were animals... We were animals also. We are passing through 8,400,000 forms of life—from aquatic to plants, trees, then insect, then flies, then birds, then beasts, then uncivilized human beings, jungle, then come to this Aryan form, civilized form of human being. So it is obtained after many, many transmigrations. And if we do not understand the responsibility... Just like in an establishment one man is promoted. His first charge is doorkeeper, then he is gradually he is given promotion; he may come to the post of the manager. Just like in bank, it so happens. They must go through all the different stages of service. So when he becomes manager, if he does not know the responsibility, again he comes to the lowest position. Again he has to strive for the top. So if we forget our responsibility and become like cats and dogs, then we are going back again to take the forms of cats and dogs. This is a great science. Nobody is very serious to understand this science, but the science is there. We are, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to educate people about this science. They're neglecting this science. That means they are violating the prerogative of the chance, the facility of human being. After all, you have to die; you cannot check it. But if you die like the cats and dogs, then our life is spoiled, and if you die like a human being, then our life is perfect. Everyone will die, but one who dies like a human being for understanding what is God, what is my relationship with Him, and acting in relationship with God, then our life is perfect. So you like this philosophy or not?

Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

John Fahey: Mainly alone.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, you have followed somebody at least, standard.

John Fahey: Oh, yeah, people I heard.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is the way of learning what is God. The main business is that one must know God. It is not that because I approach some person and he did not know, he could give me the right knowledge of God, then I give up this idea of knowing God. No. That will not..., that is not good for human life. Then you remain animal. I might have been cheated or I might not have approached the proper person, but that does not mean that I can stop that idea. That is not... In another place it is said, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). One who is actually inquisitive to understand the highest benefit of life, he must approach a guru. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ. Jijñāsu means inquisitive. Śreya—the highest benefit of life. Uttamam-highest. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. Ṣābde pare ca niṣṇātaṁ. What is the qualification of such a person? Ṣābde pare ca niṣṇātaṁ. He is completely well versed in the transcendental science. And what is the symptom that he is well versed? Brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam. He has taken shelter of Brahma or Kṛṣṇa or God. Upāsanā-finishing all desires. These two things: he is a devotee and he has no more material desires. He must be well versed in the science, he must be a devotee, and he has no attraction for material things. These three things, if you can find, then he's perfect guru. Everything is there in the śāstra; therefore books should be consulted. If you have no books, those who are discussing books, you should approach them, you should hear them. Just like we are holding class, morning, evening. People can come here, take advantage what we are speaking, then gradually they can understand. But we cannot avoid that. That is not good idea. If I say that "I went to church. I'm not very much enlightened; therefore I give up this attempt," oh, that is not good.

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Comparative religion, from our point of view, that there cannot be many religions, cannot be many religions. Religion means... We define religion as the law given by God. So we understand from Bhagavad-gītā that God says, Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: "Always think of Me, become My devotee, offer your obeisances unto Me." So any religion that has no conception of God, how he can think of God? If I think of something, that something must be known to me; otherwise how can I think of it? If I imagine something, that is not wanted. My imagination of God... God is not a thing to be imagined by me. He is a concrete thing. Therefore according to our philosophy, any so-called religion which has no conception of God, that is not religion. That is simply mental speculation. We accept that religion means the law given by God. But if you do not know what is God, what is His law, then where is religion? Therefore in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that all types of pseudo religion is rejected. You can ask any religious man, "What is your conception of God?" he cannot give any clear conception. So far we are concerned, we can immediately give conception of God—His name, His address, everything. That is the difference. Strictly speaking, we do not accept any system of religion as bona fide. They are all rejected. That is not religion. They do not know what is God. What is that religion? Strictly speaking, that is not religion. But if we speak publicly, they will be angry. So this comparative study of religion, we don't believe in it, because there is no religion. Where is the scope of comparative study?

Devotee: Nothing can compare.

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: There is no religion. Strictly speaking, simply some dogmas, maybe some moral principles. That is another thing. But moral principles we have to transcend. We don't say that don't follow moral principles. But even they do not follow the moral principles. Then what is the..., where is the religion? Just like Christian religion, it is said that "Thou shalt not kill." But everyone is killing. So nobody's... Factually, religion means conception of God and the words of God, all over the world. Just like good citizen means he knows what is the government and what is the law of government. He is following. Similarly, religious person means he must know what is God and what are the words of God. So our principle is that we follow the words of God. God says, God says that "Always think of Me." So who can object to this, if he's seriously about religion? Why one should not think of God always? God says that "You think of Me." But if you have no idea of God, how you'll think of? We have God, Kṛṣṇa, here. We can think of His form. We are busy in His service. We are not only thinking; we are trying to become His devotee. We are serving, trying to serve Him. Rising early in the morning, offering maṅgala-ārati, then prayers, then reading His message, trying to apply in our life as far as possible. We are not perfect, but we are trying to follow the instruction of God. This is our life. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakta mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru. So you have studied that magazine. Can you give me any idea, what do you think about religion? What is religion?

Ian Polsen: Religion to me means more now that I have come in contact with Kṛṣṇa consciousness than it did before. It means self-realization. It means realization of my relationship with the Supreme.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: Anything which can be engaged in the service of the Lord should not be given up. This is our philosophy. Should not be given up. We do not say, "Oh, money is material. I do not touch. My hand becomes turned up." No. We don't say all these nonsense philosophy. (laughs) We know that money, lakṣmī, is Kṛṣṇa's property, so it should be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. Why money should not be touched? Money is Kṛṣṇa's. It must be touched and used for Kṛṣṇa. We don't try to (indistinct) that pseudo renouncement. What I have got that I shall renouncement? Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Our renouncement means we renounce our personal sense gratification, that's all. That is renouncement. Materialism means personal sense gratification, and spiritual life means no personal sense gratification, all Kṛṣṇa's sense gratification. That's all. The same teaching by Bhagavad-gītā. Arjuna was thinking in terms of personal sense gratification: "I shall not fight. It is not good to kill my kinsmen, my brother." That was personal sense gratification. From ordinary point of view people will say, "How Kṛṣṇa is..., Arjuna is nice, that he's giving up his claim, and nonviolent." But this philosophy Kṛṣṇa immediately kicked out. Kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam. "Oh, why you are talking nonsense like this?" That was His answer. (laughs) Next He says, aśocyān anvaśocas tvam prajñā-vādāṁś ca (BG 2.11), "You are talking just like a very learned man, but this kind of lamentation is not done by any learned. That means you are fool number one." (laughter) So after understanding Bhagavad-gītā he agreed to fight. "Yes. I shall fight." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now people will say, "Oh, fighting, killing is Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" Yes, if Kṛṣṇa wants it. To... Therefore our business is not in the estimation of this material world to become a good man. Our estimation is how Kṛṣṇa will accept me as good man, that's all. We don't care for this world. Just like gopīs, they left their husbands, they left their father, went to Kṛṣṇa. What is this philosophy? They wanted to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, not their father, brother. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "This is the highest worship." (Sanskrit) There is no greater, topmost example of worship than the gopīs did. Because their only purpose was to serve Kṛṣṇa, unalloyed, without being disturbed by any other consideration. That is highest perfection: How to serve Kṛṣṇa. How Kṛṣṇa will be pleased. So at the present moment the best service to render for Kṛṣṇa is that... Kṛṣṇa..., when I speak of Kṛṣṇa, means God, the Supreme Lord. The whole rascal world, they have given up God consciousness. They have become rascal. Therefore to teach them about Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the best service at the present moment. Because the whole world—the so-called politicians, so-called scientists, so-called philosophers—they're all rascals. They have forgotten God. We, we call them directly, they're all rascals, mūḍhā, duṣkṛtina mūḍhā. All sinful, all rascals, because they have no information of God, Kṛṣṇa. Ask any scientist, "Do you know anything about Kṛṣṇa?" "Oh, what is Kṛṣṇa? What is God? This is all foolish, humbug." They will say like that. And he's passing as great scientist. He's fool number one but he's passing as great scientist. (laughter) Ha! Our Śyāmasundara's daughter, little daughter, she preaches, "Do you know Kṛṣṇa?" If somebody says, "No, I do not," "The Supreme Personality of Godhead." (laughter) Actually that is nice preaching.

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Guest (5): How to identify a true learned man?

Prabhupāda: That you have to become a learned man. If you are a fool, how you can understand who is learned man? You have to become a learned man. Is it not? Otherwise you will be cheated. Anyone will come—"I am learned man. I am God"—and you will be cheated, if you do not know what is God, what is learned man. So first of all you have to become learned man. Then you will understand who is learned man.

Guest (2): But to become learned, you go to so-called learned people, and you go to so-called learned people. How do you know that those so-called learned are...

Prabhupāda: That has spoiled our Indian culture. That has spoiled our Indian culture. Everyone become learned man; everyone become a spiritualist. That's another... So best thing is to... Why don't you accept Kṛṣṇa as the most learned man? That will save you. Everyone accepts Him, all the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Śaṅkarācārya, Lord Caitanya. So why don't you accept Kṛṣṇa? Why you're searching after learned man? Here is the best learned man. Simple truth. If you simply argue, that is a different thing. But if you want really learned man, Kṛṣṇa is here. Take Kṛṣṇa as He is; then you learn everything. So I shall go now. What is the time?

Satsvarūpa: It's eight-thirty now.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 25, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: The flower is coming out nicely in its own way. The tree is coming. Human being is coming. Everything is in order. And there is no management. How much rascaldom. Just see. So these atheist class, they're rascals, mūḍhāḥ, third-class men without any knowledge. Na māṁ duṣkṛtinaḥ. I've already explained. Using the merit for sinful activities, they're called duṣkṛtiḥ. And mūḍhāḥ, these rascals, who cannot understand how the management is going on, mūḍhāḥ. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ, prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Narādhamāḥ means... Nara means human being. Adhama means the lowest, because the lowest of the mankind. The highest of the mankind means who has the knowledge of the Supreme. He's called highest, brāhmaṇa. Brahma-jānāti, one who knows Brahman. He's called highest. And the lowest means that he has got this body, human form of body, but he is acting like animal. Just like cats and dogs, they cannot understand what is God. So any person who is not understanding, or trying to understand what is God, he's the lowest of the mankind. Because in the human form of life, it is the chance to understand what is God, but he's misusing it. He's using this body just like cats and dogs. They eat, sleep, have sex intercourse, and die. So these things are there. But if somebody argues that you are saying lowest of the mankind but we see so many Dr. Radhakrishnans, they also do not admit. Therefore the word is used, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. They appear to be very highly learned scholars but their real knowledge has been taken by māyā. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. Āsuri- bhāva. Why he can remain so? Because āsuri-bhāva, there is no God. That is their determination. There is no God. Therefore their merit is being misused, they have become the lowest of the mankind. They have become the Fool No. 1 and all that so-called education, academics, knowledge has been taken away by māyā. This is... So we test only whether he's a devotee of God. If he's not a devotee of God then we take either of these: he must be the rascal, or lowest of the mankind, or simply using the merit for sinful activities, or his knowledge has been taken away by māyā. Immediately, we have no difficulty to understand what class of man he is.

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: They are not my books. I am simply translating. They are written by Vyāsadeva, the original Vedic scholar. So there are now many secular states. Our Vedic idea of secular state is the government must be responsible of proper execution of religious system. It doesn't matter whether one is Hindu or one is Christian, one is Mohammedan or Buddhist. It doesn't matter. But it is a government duty to see that one who is professing as Hindu whether he's executing the Hindu principles of religion properly. That is government. Just like government gives license to so many businesses. One man is selling liquor, wine, government issues license. So the government inspector, excise inspector, goes and sees that the man is doing business according to the license. Government should not be callous that "You may go on with your so-called religion, we don't care for it." No. That is not government. Government's duty is to see, just like for example, Christians, their commandment, first commandment is, "Thou shalt not kill." It is the government's duty to see that anyone who is professing Christian, "Why he's killing?" Immediately he should be punished that "You are professing as Christian and you are killing." This is government. Similarly, Buddhist religion also, ahiṁsā. Ahiṁsā paramaṁ buddhiḥ. The government duty should see. And the ultimate test of first-class religion is: the follower has developed love of God. If he does not know anything about God, or if he has not developed love of God, then he has simply wasted time. It may be any religion. That is ultimate test because religion means, it has got relationship with God. Otherwise what is the meaning of religion? Any religion, it doesn't matter. The process should be quest of God. What is God? What is Absolute Truth? Wherefrom everything has come? What is we... what we are? What is our relationship with God? This science. Religion means this science. In the Vedānta-sūtra, it is said, athāto brahma jijñāsā. This human life is meant for understanding the Absolute Truth. Otherwise, what is the difference between cats and dogs and human beings? If simply eating, sleeping, and sex life, and defend is the business of human life, then these things are there in the animal life also.

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: :Yes. They must be the same. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣad bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Religion means the course, or the laws given by God. Just like law means the law given by the state. I cannot manufacture law. The citizen cannot manufacture law. The law is manufactured by the legislative assembly of the government. Similarly, religion means the order given by God. Now we have to understand who is God, and what is His order, and how it is applicable to everyone. That is the system of religion. We cannot whimsically give some rituals as religion. The principle of religion is to obey the orders of God. Therefore the first principle is to know who is God. Unless I know what is God, then how I can know what is His order? So in the Bhagavad-gītā, the religion is given that—(Aside:) you are feeling sleepy, you can go—the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That is religion. We have manufactured so many types of religion, and here God says that "You give up your manufactured religion. You just surrender unto Me." This is religion. Religion means to surrender. A good citizen means to surrender to the government law. Similarly, a religious person means who has surrendered to God. Nowadays it has become a regrettable fashion that everyone is God, when we surrender to one. And this false prestige that "I am God. I haven't got to surrender to anyone. I am God. What surrender?" This atheism is going on and spoiling the whole human society. God has become so cheap. Any nonsense can claim, "I am God." That is the defect of the modern society. There is a great necessity to understand God. If everyone is God then where is the necessity of religion? If everyone is president then where is the necessity of lawmaking? So this is going on. This is very unfortunate situation. What is your idea?

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is... The Bhagavad-gītā is the preliminary study of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Just like before learning any literature, one has to read the first book, ABCD. The Bhagavad-gītā is the ABCD. It is just beginning of understanding of what is God. ABC. When one has passed the entrance examination, then he gets the opportunity of studying Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. In the Bhagavad-gītā the last instruction is sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, is explaining Himself, and at last He says that you surrender unto me. That is the most confidential part of knowledge. So if one has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, then He's admitted in the college of studying Bhāgavata. Before that he has no place. Just like without passing entrance examination, nobody's admitted in the college course. Similarly, without understanding Bhagavad-gītā perfectly well, one cannot understand what is Bhāgavata. Bhāgavata is the graduate study. So this Vedānta-sūtra, the Vedānta-sūtra is the summarized study of all Vedic knowledge. And Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the explanation of Vedānta-sūtra. So people are in darkness about this great knowledge and the science of God, all over the world. They are misled. They're being misled. Misled in this way, that this human form of life is specially meant for understanding God. The animals are not very (indistinct), but the present leaders they're keeping all the human being in the animal condition of life. Their chance of becoming conscious about God is being sacrificed, being misled, by so-called economic development, plans. All this economic development means, they're meant for this bodily comforts. Any department of knowledge at the present moment, they're simply aiming at giving some artificial comfort to this body. But these rascals, they do not care to know that however I keep this body comfortably, I'll have to give it up. And after giving up this body, what is my next position, they do not know. They do not know.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: This is darkness. This is darkness. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is an educational movement to give enlightenment to the people at large, to understand the values of life. Not to live like animals, eating, sleeping, sex life and dying. This is animal life. This is the best humanitarian welfare activities: to make people understand scientifically what he is, what is God, what is our relationship with God. So the Bhagavad-gītā is the preliminary study of this science. So this should be presented very scientifically. One who knows perfectly well about this Bhagavad-gītā. These are the (indistinct) crucial point. That one... Kṛṣṇa says, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). There's so many very touch(?) point. If they are not very, explained nicely people will remain in darkness.

Scholar: But we think in the present day, Indonesia's, we think about harmonizing spiritual and material aspects of life, this our...

Prabhupāda: No. No. Harmonize means... First of all you must know what is harmonization. Harmonization means that this material life means bodily concept of life. This is material life. "I am this body." Generally people think like that: "I am Indonesian." "I am American." "I am Hindu." "I am Muslim." And they take care of the country where he's born. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tridhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijyadhīḥ, but this conception, bodily conception of life, has made the whole human society like cats and dogs. "It is my land. It is my..." Just like a dog. As soon as another dog comes. "Bark, bark, bark, bark. Why you have come here? Why you have come here." So this, this kind of harmonization is dog civilization.

Scholar: Well I think it's the...

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Deki, yes. Simply dag da dag da dag dak. (sound imitation) But the rice is already taken away. So their labor is being spoiled in that way. They, pleasure... For the pleasure's sake, they are spoiling the human facilities. This is their intelligence. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says: jaḍa-vidyā jato māyāra vaibhava tomāra bhajane bādhā, anitya saṁsāre moha janamiyā jībake karaye gādhā. This jaḍa-vidyā, this material science, is simply a hindrance to our progress of spiritual life. All these rascal scientists, they'll deny God. That is their business. Just like you said yesterday that somebody was accepting God, and the other scientists, they thought: "No, it is insult." So already they are in oblivion. They cannot understand what is God. And these rascals are making them more and more rascals. "There is no God." By their scientific research, the rascals are becoming more rascals. And they're becoming captivated: "This is pleasure." What pleasure you will do you with. Therefore they are, they are gādhā. They are gādhā and they are creating gādhās. That is the song of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Jaḍa-vidyā jato māyāra... It is expansion of māyā's illusory energy. The so-called scientific advancement is simply expanding the influence of māyā's illusory energy. They're already rascals and fools, and still they are being made rascals and fools. So they're forgetting their real purpose of life and the whole human life is spoiled. This is the result of so-called scientific advancement.

Brahmānanda: Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura also says that the modern education makes men just like an ass.

Prabhupāda: That is, I am explaining. (pause) Just like this, what is called, anthropology?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Astrology?

Prabhupāda: Darwin's...?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Dar, Darwin? Oh, naturalists.

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So that's all right, but, at the present moment, you are rascal. Somebody when come, intelligent, that is another thing, but you are rascal. So why you are leading, cheating others? That is our protest, that you know that you are a rascal, and you are cheating others to become leader. That is our protest. Why should you cheat others? Mūḍhaḥ. If he says that: "How do you know that I am rascal?" Because you do not know God. Therefore you are rascal. Mūḍhaḥ. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). If you are, would have known what is God, then you would have surrendered to Him. Then you are intelligent. But because you do not surrender, you do not know what is God, therefore you are a rascal. This is the definition of rascal. Jñānavān māṁ prapadyate. And intelligent means one who surrenders. He's intelligent. One who does not, he's rascal.

Brahmānanda: We have to expose these rascals.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our business. (pause) Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ duṣkṛtino narādhama (BG 7.15), always engaged in sinful activities. And because they are sinful, they have been given food by nature: "Eat dog. Eat the snail. Eat stool." Are these things eatables? And those who are intelligent, Kṛṣṇa conscious? For them, fruits, flowers, cāpāṭīs, nice things.

Brahmānanda: The swans and the crows.

Prabhupāda: The swans and the crows. So expose them as crows. (pause)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The leaders in our society, nowadays, seems that they forget their own present moment, but they're thinking for their children, future.

Morning Walk -- May 1, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So there is overpopulation in India, in China and other places, and there is problem. They are trying to occupy more land but you will not allow. Therefore war, there is war. So we create problems. Otherwise God has supplied us enough. You can use it; as much as you like you can use what you have... They are creating trouble and the scientists giving them, "Yes, I am giving you this chemical composition. You drop on the enemies' camp." This is scientific research, to impel the rascals. (laughter) The rascals, rogues, they are trying to usurp other's property, and the scientists helping them. That's all. If you help one murderer, if you help one thief, then you also become criminal. Is it not? So they are helping one another, all these thieves and rogues. Therefore there is so much trouble in the world. They are all criminals. Stena eva sa ucyate (BG 3.12). One who does not recognize the proprietorship of the Lord, he is a thief. Find out, take statistics how many people recognizes God. Take statistic. Everyone will say, "Eh! What is God, nonsense." Everyone will say. Therefore they are in trouble. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura summarizes this fact: māyār bośe, jāccho bhese, Khāccho hābuḍubu bhāi, jīv kṛṣṇa-dās, e biśwās, korle to ār duḥkho nāi. As soon as you believe in God and accept yourself as eternal servant, there is no more problem. Everything is there. But they are being carried away by the illusory energy. Therefore they are under the control of time and nature. māyār bośe, jāccho... Just like these seaweeds are carried by the waves, "Get out," similarly, one who is not accepted... There are other seaweeds, they are not thrown away, but these sea weeds, because little outside—thrown away. There are millions and millions of fishes, they are not thrown away, because they have surrendered to the sea, under the protection of the sea. The sea is protecting them. Just see. Similarly you surrender, you will be protected. Kṛṣṇa says that. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ: (BG 18.66) Don't be worried. I will give you protection. You surrender unto Me." And the scientists say, "Oh, what is God. These are all nonsense, primitive ideas. Primitive." They have become advanced. Therefore they should give up the idea of God. Now India is declared famine. What these leaders will do?

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: It is done. Just like sometimes I think that I came here alone without any expectation of success, and this movement has become so nice. Actually, by one man's effort it was not possible. But it has become so. This is acintya-śakti, Kṛṣṇa's, inconceivable. Even a modern businessman, he cannot organize such a worldwide organization in such short a time. We have talked with many businessmen in India. Some said, "We have got thirty branches," somebody says, "We have got forty," another twenty branches. Our students say "My Guru Mahārāja has 102 branches." So they say, "No, we cannot compare with your Guru Mahārāja." So this is acintya-śakti. You can see so many things, the acintya-śakti is working. So unless we accept acintya-śakti of God, it is not possible to understand what is God. Inconceivable potency. And that is actually a fact. We want to bring God to our level, that's frog philosophy. Atlantic Ocean to the level of well. That is foolishness. That is foolishness. We have to understand that this whole universe... Just like Arjuna saw the virāḍ-rūpa, universal form. So this whole universe is the form of the Lord. So if in my body there are so many chemicals, enzymes, and other things, so how much there must be, proportionately? Suppose if we find some portion of chemicals in my body, you will find less in the ant's body. Or you will find more in the elephant's body. So if I can create so many chemicals within my body, how much chemicals He can create? On that account... Your theory, that combination of hydrogen, oxygen makes water, that is a fact. But you are surprised, wherefrom such a big quantity of hydrogen, oxygen came so that the ocean is there. That you cannot calculate. But we answer: "This hydrogen, oxygen is there in the body, universal body of the Lord." Therefore you find. Why do they, do not understand this plain thing? Hydrogen, oxygen we accept; that's a fact. But you are surprised wherefrom this big quantity of hydrogen, oxygen came? That we answer. So let us cooperate. Then the people will be happy. That is acintya-śakti. If a poor man cannot spend ten dollars and if a rich man immediately spends million dollars, he becomes surprised, "How it is possible? How it is possible?" It is like that.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Paramahaṁsa: "In the image of God."

Prabhupāda: So man is the sample of God. So why don't you try, study nicely man, and you can know, understand God, what is God. I asked these Christian people, "If man is made after the image of God, you study very scrutinizingly a perfect human being, and you will know what is God."

Umāpati: The most ideal image of a human being is God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the Vedic injunction. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). So you take a perfect man. Just like Kṛṣṇa, you take a perfect man, take him as man, you see that He is God. He has got all the perfections. Even if you take him as a man.

Paramahaṁsa: No competition.

Prabhupāda: No competition. That is Bhagavān. Bhagavān means... We are giving this definition. Bhagavān means a perfect man. That's all. Now, just like man wants to wife, to have wife. So why there is, what is called, adulteration? He wants more than one wife. Just see, perfect Kṛṣṇa, He has got sixteen thousand wives, which you cannot imagine. Here is perfection. You cannot say that a man has no inclination to have more than one wife. That is there. So that propensity is, in perfection, is there in Kṛṣṇa. Therefore He is God.

Conversation with Sridhara Maharaja -- June 27, 1973, Navadvipa:

Prabhupāda: Now, these books suppliers, Dai Nippon, they give us credit up to $200,000. $200,000, in our Indian exchange, it is twenty lakhs of rupees. So they give us credit. We take books from them and distribute and then pay. In this way, it is going on. In Los Angeles alone we are selling... How many books daily?

Devotee: Two thousand, maybe. Fifteen hundred a day.

Prabhupāda: Two thousand pieces, and the collection is about eight thousand dollars, no, eight hundred dollars. Eight hundred dollars. So they're very anxiously taking our books. A new literature. They have no such idea, what is God, what is bhakti. How they can be explained. Our Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, publisher MacMillan, within one year... Last August they, the first edition. And... Not yet August. By this time, they have finished two editions and the third edition is in the press. That will be available in July.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Edition of a very number...,

Prabhupāda: Fifty thousand.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Fifteen thousand.

Prabhupāda: Fifty. Five, zero.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Marvelous success.

Prabhupāda: And Bhāgavata also, we have got six volumes. So people purchase the whole set, sixty dollars. Sixty dollars for the whole set? No? How much?

Śrutakīrti: They sell it for thirty dollars.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

David Wynne: And a pure one. Not, not spoiled. Anyway, that's what I tell myself. (laughs) What I mean is, if one makes a bird, if it has the feeling that because Kṛṣṇa breathed life into it and made it, and if one can reproduce this and get the spirit of it, that's praising...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also indirect praising. But you can praise Him directly.

Śyāmasundara: I think part of the trouble with our modern age is that no one has any information about God.

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is God.

Śyāmasundara: They can't praise Him directly because they don't know what He looks like or what He does. (Prabhupāda is still eating.)

Prabhupāda: What is this, behind the halavā?

Śrutakīrti: Behind it?

Prabhupāda: Hm? Something is coming out, white?

Śrutakīrti: Oh, they probably put cream in it.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Devotee: That's all right?

David Wynne: Very good. Thank you. Lovely.

Prabhupāda: So how do you like our philosophy?

David Wynne: How do I like...?

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Similarly, if you try to pour water to each leaf of the tree, it will be simply waste of time. Similarly, God is the root of everything. Our Vedānta-sūtra says, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), Absolute Truth, wherefrom everything has come. So if we love the root, God, then we can love others. Otherwise not possible. Otherwise it is simply waste of time. They have tried. The so-called humanitarian work they have tried. Unity and fraternity and so on, big, big words. But it has not come to... Because there is no love of Godhead, it has failed. Even the United Nations. Central point is missing. So our Vedic injunction is that sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje: (SB 1.2.6) "That system of religion is perfect which teaches how to love God." It doesn't matter, Christian religion, Hindu religion, Mohammedan religion, it doesn't matter. But God minus, this is the present position. Everyone wants to make minus God everything. This is going on. They have no clear idea. If I want to love you, I must have a clear idea of you. On vague idea, I cannot love. But they have no clear idea what is God. So how they can love God? And because they have failed to love God, all the so-called love, humanitarian, philanthropic works and, you know, they have become useless.

Mr. Wadell: Yes. The problem is a very big one. We are, perhaps, sent into this earth to know or to learn how to love.

Prabhupāda: No. I have got some objection. You cannot begin any scientific statement with the word "perhaps." (W. laughs) We don't accept. You must be assured, you must be assured.

Mr. Wadell: I am merely saying... I do not wish to be presumptuous, if you understand me.

Prabhupāda: Well as soon as you say, "perhaps," "maybe," that is not... This has no meaning. Because it is not certain. You have no clear idea.

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: But when... Just like when we say God, Kṛṣṇa, this word conveys the meaning "all-attractive." So what is the wrong? This Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. So unless God is all-attractive, how He can become God? It is not that God is for me God. God is for you also. God is for him also. Therefore He must be all-attractive. This is perfect...

Mr. Wadell: But not necessarily in the same way. Because....

Prabhupāda: No. Just to understand what is God, if you try to understand in this way that "God is good," "God is all-attractive," is it not perfect?

Mr. Wadell: It is a partial statement.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mr. Wadell: But it doesn't tell me...

Prabhupāda: But then, when you go deep into the matter, you understand more and more. In the beginning...

Mr. Wadell: But you will never, I suspect, here on earth understand...

Prabhupāda: No, no, that suspicion I have already answered...

Mr. Wadell: Not for me, you haven't.

Prabhupāda: ...that you have to go through a process, right process. Then there will be no suspicion. The same example. But if you do not go through the process you will be always suspicious.

Mr. Wadell: When I say, "suspect," what I mean is not anything bad.

Room Conversation With Three College Students -- July 11, 1973, London:

Student (1): Is it to realize God?

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Therefore you must have to concentrate upon God; therefore you have to control your mind. You have to withdraw your mind from any other engagement, only concentrate on God. Then the... What is God?

Student (1): That's what I'm trying to find out.

Prabhupāda: No, if you want to concentrate, find out God... Do you mean to say simply by practicing, you'll find out? You must know what is God. Then suppose you are purchasing some ticket. You do not where to go. You do not know. You say, "I'll have to find out where to go." What is this? Then why you are purchasing ticket?

Student (1): Yeah. How can you focus your mind on God before you know what He is?

Prabhupāda: Yes. So then what is God?

Student (1): That's what I came to ask you.

Prabhupāda: Then?

Revatīnandana: He wants to know. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: And that is Kṛṣṇa. So if you concentrate your mind on Kṛṣṇa, that is yoga. That is first-class yoga. That is stated. You... List the last...

Room Conversation with Indian Guests and Devotees -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) It is very difficult to, to guru, but when guru comes, they also do not accept him. What can be done? They are so fallen. Only fortunate. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva (CC Madhya 19.151). So to go to guru, to Kṛṣṇa, that requires fortune. Kona bhāgyavān jīva. Some fortunate person. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). By the mercy of guru and Kṛṣṇa, he gets the seed of this bhakti. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). And when he's a bhakta, then he can understand what is God. (To disciple:) Get the light. Bhaktyā mām abhijānā... No, there. That's all right.

Guest (2): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi for some time, a few English words) (break) (Hindi for some time) (break) When the destiny of the people are to be controlled, there must be very, very intelligent man. That is Vedic civilization. There is standard aims and objects on which the people should be trained up. That is varṇāśrama-dharma. Viṣṇur ārādhanam. Worshiping Viṣṇu. This is the ultimate aim. So the whole society is divided into brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa—departmental—and they are trained up. But the aim is viṣṇur ārādhanam. But they have no idea at the present moment. Viṣṇur ārādhanam, he has no knowledge. But the civilization begins on this point. Human being means he's meant for viṣṇur ārādhanam. Otherwise what is the difference between dogs and human beings? The western people, they do not know. They simply think that dog lies down on the floor, on the road... "We have got nice, best apartment. Therefore we are civilized." So that is their defect. They are trying to improve the condition of sleeping, eating. That's all. That is advancement of civilization. But that is not advancement of civilization. Advancement of civilization means to understand Viṣṇu, how to please Him, how to go back to Him, go to the spiritual world. This is advancement of civilization. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). They do not know all these things. Therefore they have been described as śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19).

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: The one thing is they take it. Others will not take it. That is the difference. If... There is a picture; my Guru Mahārāja has..., one man has fallen in a deep well, and he's crying "Save me!" So another man dropped a rope, that "You catch it. I shall carry you." Then he'll not catch it. Then how he can be drawn. So... (break) ...mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). "There is nothing more superior than Me." We are preaching the same thing, that "You are searching after God. You are, some of you are disgusted that 'There is no God,' but here is God. You take His name. You take His address. You take His daily activities. Everything is there." And that is our mission. And we started this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in 1966. So when I registered this society, somebody suggested that "Why not make it 'God consciousness?' " And no, I want to give definitely what is God. God, they have got different conception. But here is God. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). That is the Vedic injunction. "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." And when He was present, He proved it, that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So we have not introduced any new system of religion. That is not a fact. We have simply placed, administered, the same thing which was spoken five thousand years ago. That's all. Five thousand years ago, Kṛṣṇa said that "There is nothing, no more superior authority than Me." We are preaching the same thing. The same old thing. Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). "You just surrender unto Me." Kṛṣṇa said that "Surrender unto Me," and we are speaking, "Surrender unto Kṛṣṇa;" same thing. Kṛṣṇa said that "I am the origin of everything." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). We are speaking the same thing, that the original source of everything is Kṛṣṇa. We are challenging the scientists also.

Room Conversation with Sir Alistair Hardy -- July 21, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Your Bible is meant for not the cats and dogs. It is meant for the human beings.

Sir Alistair Hardy: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Our Vedas are not meant for the cats and dogs. All śāstras and scriptures and Vedas, they are meant for human being. So if human being remains on cats and dogs, how he can understand? If he voluntarily remains like the cats and dogs, then how he can understand the Vedas or Bible or Koran? He cannot. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ (BG 7.25). We have to become pure before understanding what is God. Therefore every civilized society has got a type of religion to become purified so that he can understand God. Without being purified, how it is possible? That is not possible. So at least these things should be accepted as they are in the Bible, "Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not covet." Illicit sex life, intoxication, and killing of animals. These are in the Bible. Why they are not accepted? This is not our impositions. This is already there.

Revatīnandana: And in every scripture...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Revatīnandana: ...for purification there are so many processes.

Prabhupāda: So how they can be God conscious without being purified?

Sir Alistair Hardy: Well, I think you're probably getting tired, and I think I probably...

Prabhupāda: You can give some prasādam. Take some prasādam.

Room Conversation with Sir Alistair Hardy -- July 21, 1973, London:

Sir Alistair Hardy: No, I get example (?) to both, both from the East and the West.

Prabhupāda: Simply by becoming Sanskrit scholar or Latin scholar, it is not sufficient. He must be God-realized, purified. Then it is possible. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ: (Brs. 1.2.234) "By your these blunt senses it is not possible to understand what is God, what is His form, what is His name, what is His quality, what is His kingdom, what is His paraphernalia." These things are to be understood. God means... Just like when we speak of "king." King does not mean alone. King means he has got his queen, he has got his kingdom, he has got his secretary, he has got his minister, he has got his palace, he has... so many things, king, royal. When we speak of Queen, we immediately remember the Buckingham Palace, his (her) bodyguards and so many, so many other things. Similarly, God means He has got His entourage also, everything. He's not alone. To understand God means to understand everything of God—His name, His fame, His līlā, His pastimes. So nāmādi. With all these blunt senses, how can we... We cannot understand even the Personality of Godhead, what to speak of other things? "God is a person:"—it is a very difficult subject matter for ordinary man to take it, very difficult subject. That is stated in the... Even the demigods they cannot understand. That is... Because he's thinking materially that "This cosmic manifestation, then creation, is so big, and it is created by a person. How it is possible?" But... Because they do not know what is that person. Simply by the word "person," he is afraid: "Oh, oh, oh, oh."

Revatīnandana: "He's like me. I can't do it. Therefore not a person."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Revatīnandana: "No person except He's like me."

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: We don't say that you stop all this education. No.

Mother: No, I don't agree with you there. No, father, no, no. No, no.

Prabhupāda: We don't say.

Mother: No, I think they must...

Prabhupāda: You can go on with your industries. You can go on with your university. But side by side, you become competent to know what is God and how to love Him. Then your life is perfect.

Mother: I could mention a lot of names that (are) still very close to God and brilliant men in science... Where would we be without our scientists, without our doctors, medicine? They all have to go to university and get a degree before they...

Prabhupāda: That I say. You get.

Mother: Yes, but we need them.

Prabhupāda: You get.

Mother: Yes, well, the some of your boys could be doctors.

Prabhupāda: But simply to becoming doctor at a medical science will not save me. Unfortunately, they do not believe in the next life.

Mother: Oh, yes they do. I go to... I had a doctor who came to church—and Michael knows him—every Sunday, a very good man.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Well, yes...

Revatīnandana: And he's a very intelligent man. He's in the Mensa Society.

Prabhupāda: In the Vedic literature it is said the animal killers cannot understand God.

Mother: Well, this is very good, sir, that you find this, and I say, this is not my argument... Yes. Hmmm.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Not practical also. I have seen the animal killers. They do not understand what is God. That is a fact. Neither they have got brain to understand it.

Mother: But you don't need brain if you're not going to study or to do anything further. If you just sit and sleep like...

Prabhupāda: No, we are studying. Because we are preaching, we are studying that. The animal eaters, they cannot have any conception of God. The brain is so dull.

Mother: What about your children? Where do they? Do they go to school?

Prabhupāda: Why not.

Mother: Are they edu...? Do they go to schools, your children?

Prabhupāda: They have now grown up. My grandsons are going to school.

Mother: Well, I didn't mean yours in particular. I'm talking now of all of you. I'm not talking of you particularly. I'm talking of all of you. All your children, the married devotees...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, our children, we have got our own school. All these boys, they have got their children. They are gṛhasthas, householders. So we have got our nice school at Dallas, very big school.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: And here the business is to again revive them to God consciousness.

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Cardinal Danielou: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So the process of enlightening the living entities, especially the human being, because in the animal form of life, one cannot be enlightened. Neither the animal can understand what is God.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: It is only the human being who can understand. If he's trained, then he can come to God consciousness.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes, yes, yes, yes, It is so.

Prabhupāda: So this creation is meant for the forgotten souls to give them a chance for reviving their God consciousness.

Yogeśvara: Is it clear?

Cardinal Danielou: Yes, it is clear. It is very, very clear. Very clear.

Prabhupāda: And for this business, sometimes God personally comes. Sometimes He sends His representative, His son, or His devotee, His servant. This is going on. God wants that these forgotten souls should come back to home, back to Godhead.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Therefore from His side, that is constant endeavor to revive their God consciousness.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes, God consciousness.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Therefore, because we are propagating this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we ask people to, not to eat meat, any kind.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes, yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: But if, under certain circumstances, you are obliged to eat meat, eat the flesh of some lower animals. Don't kill cows. It is the greatest sin. And so long one will be sinful, he'll not be able to understand what is God. But human being, main business is to understand God and to love Him. But if he remains sinful, neither he can understand God, and what to, what is the question of loving Him. Therefore at least from the human society, this cruel maintenance of slaughterhouses must be stopped.

Cardinal Danielou: (French)

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Cardinal Danielou: Oui, oui. I think that this is perhaps not an essential point. I think that in this realm the uses of various religions can be good. The importance is to love God.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Cardinal Danielou: But the commandment practical can be various.

Prabhupāda: No. Just like God, if God says that: "You can do this," that is not sin. But if God says that: "You cannot do it", then it is sin.

Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but you do not know what is the aim of your this progress.

Yogeśvara: He says all he can is repeat to you his answer previously, which is that (it) is to reach the perfection of consciousness at which point man is in communion, in unity with the beyond. He calls it the cela (French), "the inexplicable."

Prabhupāda: But he cannot express what is that beyond. But he cannot describe what is God. That is imperfect knowledge.

Yogeśvara: He says that communion with God is something that is subjective; it's something you experience, not that you describe.

Prabhupāda: That is not perfect.

Yogeśvara: He says that according to every individual's place of birth, his age, his upbringing, he will experience this communion with God differently.

Prabhupāda: No. God is God. If the experience will have to be taken from God, then it will be equally most possibility for everyone.

Yogeśvara: He says what they are looking for in the Rosicrucian order is the ultimate realization when all these other relative communions with God will disappear and there will be one common realization, experience of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right. But if you cannot describe what is that ultimate goal, then how others can be attracted? (break)

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Guest (1): What is God to a layman, like me.

Prabhupāda: Layman, well, layman means, we already explained, he's no better than animal. Because layman means one who thinks that "I am this body." He's layman. He has no other information. So layman is equal to animal. So layman's education, layman's advancement is decoration of the dead body. If you decorate a dead body, you can feel satisfaction. But others will laugh, that "What a fool he is, he's decorating a dead body?" Bhagavad-bhakti-hīnasya jātiḥ śāstraṁ japas tapaḥ, aprāṇasyeva dehasya maṇḍanaṁ loka-rañjanam. Layman's business is decorating this dead body, that's all.

Guest (1): Yeah, but if you were to explain to him what is God, how would you explain to him.

Prabhupāda: Then, suppose, what you are? What is your business? What do you do? You're teacher, what is the subject matter?

Guest (1): I teach in law.

Prabhupāda: So if one wants to know what is law, he must become a student. It is not that simply asking "What is law, sir?" You can make him understand within a minute or within hour? Is it possible?

Guest (1): No.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: First of all, you must become graduate, then you should take entrance in the law college, then you must learn. So what is God, that is the inquiry, but it requires training. And that is Vedic dharma, varṇāśrama-dharma. Varṇāśrama-dharma. Varṇāśramācaravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān (CC Madhya 8.58). Anyone who has taken to this system of varṇāśrama-dharma, four varṇas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra; and four āśrama: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Unless one takes to this institutional education, he's no more than an animal. So to know God means he must become a brāhmaṇa, real, qualified brāhmaṇa. Therefore brāhmaṇa is respected. Because, brahma-jānātīti brāhmaṇa. But there is no law. Lawless country. Therefore one is passing as a brāhmaṇa without any knowledge of Brahman. That is the defect. Formerly the government will see... I was explaining this, this morning. That it is the kṣatriya's duty to see that one is passing as a brāhmaṇa, whether he's qualified. Why he should pass? Suppose he says, "I'm medical man." He must be qualified. And if he says, "I am medical man," then he's cheating. So you cannot call yourself a brāhmaṇa unless you are qualified. But that is going on. And this cheating is being accepted. Therefore this varṇāśrama-dharma. Hindu dharma or Vedic dharma means varṇāśrama-dharma. One must first of all accept the principles of varṇas and āśramas. Then there is question of understanding God. God is not so cheap thing, "What is God?" and you understand immediately. You must become first of all brāhmaṇa.

Guest (1): So in order to understand what is God one has to leave his family and come to some...

Prabhupāda: Why do you surmise like that? You do not know what is God. Why do you surmise your proposal?

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Now why you are asking this question? You know, I've explained, that one has to become brāhmaṇa. There are still there are many brāhmaṇas, those who are with children. Even Caitanya Mahāprabhu, although He had no children, He was family man. Nityānanda Prabhu was family man, and Advaita Prabhu was family man. They're all brāhmaṇas, family men, but they knew what is God. The real thing is to know God. Not to, because everything is allowed. These eight, four varṇas and four āśramas. There is no such thing that one has to become, to come to this form of life or that form of life. So varṇāśramācaravatā. You must execute the varṇāśrama-dharma. Then you'll understand. It doesn't matter whether you are a brāhmaṇa or kṣatriya or vaiśya or śūdra, that is a cooperation. Just like in your body there must be the head, there must be the arms, there must be the belly, and there must be the legs. By comparative study head is more important than the leg. But leg is also required. You cannot do without leg. Similarly, brāhmaṇa is the head, kṣatriya is the arms, vaiśya is the belly and śūdra is the leg. So as much I require my head so much I require the leg also. But the leg must do the leg's duty and the head must do the head's duty. Then it is perfect. And if the head is cracked, then everything is gone, madman. So at the present moment there is no brāhmaṇa, qualified. Therefore the society is in chaos. In chaotic condition, all are searching after something substantial. That is the position of the Western countries. They have heard so many things about India's culture. Still, they respect India's culture, spiritual culture. They are hankering after. But unfortunately the so-called yogis, swamis, come and cheat them. That is the difficulty. This is the first time that systematically we are presenting what is actual Vedic dharma or Bhāgavata-dharma. This question was raised by Rāmānanda Rāya before Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Varṇāśrama, he quoted this verse from Viṣṇu Purāṇa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya, āge kaha āra. "Yes, it is all right, varṇāśrama-dharma, but it is now external. If you know something better, you speak."

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So when Rāmānanda Rāya stated, citing one verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir ye prāyaśo 'jita jito 'py asi tais tri-lokyām. If one simply hears about Viṣṇu, never mind in whatever condition he is, then he can understand what is God. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatām. Śruti-gatām means hearing. Receiving from the ear. Śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. And in that way if he engages his body, his words, tanu-vāk, mind, then, although Lord Viṣṇu is Ajita, nobody can conquer Him, he can conquer. He can understand what is Viṣṇu, what is His function, what is my relationship with Him. All these things can be understood. Therefore we are propagating the same principle. We do not ask anyone: "First of all, you become brāhmaṇa. Then come here." No. Let him come and hear about Viṣṇu. We speak, discuss about Bhagavad-gītā. They hear. They hear Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. You have seen our books? So these books are discussed and gradually... If it is a fact, śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ, if one gives only aural reception to this transcendental message, then, although God is Ajita, nobody can conquer, He becomes conquered. So that is becoming, happening, that although they are American, European, Canadian, African, Australian, not all of them are Indian... Indians are also there. But because they are giving aural reception to this transcendental message, they are becoming enlightened. So anyone who will give aural reception to this message, first of all Bhagavad-gītā, entrance, then Bhāgavatam, then Caitanya-caritāmṛta, like books, then gradually, he'll be self-realized, fully cognizant what is God. What is God, this is... athāto brahma jijñāsā means what is God. So this institution is meant for giving chance to everyone to hear. It doesn't require education. Simply God has given him this ear. Let him receive the message from the ear. Śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. This is the process. Very simple process.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: That is father's duty. It is government's duty. If the father thinks, "Let my son go to hell. I don't care. I give them some food. That's all." Is that father's duty? No. Father's duty, to arrange for their food, for their dress, for their shelter, at the same time, to see that they are growing nice, not rascals. That is father's duty. Similarly, government's duty is that. We see from Vedic śāstra government duty is that. Otherwise why there is need of government? Government... Now it is government. But formerly it was the king. The king must be representative of God. Because... Who is God? God means nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām, eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Kaṭhopaniṣad. So God, what is God? God means He's also person. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām. He is also eternal, He's also cognizant. We are also eternal, we are also cognizant. But what is the difference between God and we? The difference is He maintains us. Eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. Bahu-vacanam, nityānām, cetanānām, this is bahu-vacanam. And nityaḥ, cetanaḥ, eka-vacanam. So what is the difference between this singular number and plural number? The singular number is maintaining the plural number. Eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. So God is maintaining everyone. So difference is that He is so powerful, He can maintain every living entity. He's maintaining the elephants in Africa, who eat, at a time, forty kilos. He's supplying food. There's no scarcity of food in the jungle for the elephants. Neither there is scarcity... In the hole of your room, you'll find hundreds and thousands of ui. Who is feeding them, within the hole? Unless they're eating, sleeping, the same thing are there. How they are living very nicely? But who is giving them food within the hole? A small hole. You did not provide that hole. You did not provide their food. But there are hundreds and millions of ants. They're living there within the hole very happily. Sometimes they come out. We see: "Oh, wherefrom so many hundreds coming?" So eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. That is God. He's supplying food. So there are 8,400,000 different forms of living entities. Out of that, 400,000 are human beings. Out of that, many are uncivilized. The uncivilized aborigines live in the jungle.

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No I don't think so. Any religion, you follow nicely. Just Christian religion, there is God consciousness. So actually it is not this religion or that religion. People have given up religion. All over the world they have no more interest in religion. And especially I see that in your London that so many churches are vacant. Nobody's going there. So thing is that there is no more regular teaching of religious system. It has become a profession like. Neither the teachers are serious, nor the students are serious. So our principle is that not this religion or that religion. Whichever religion you may like, you can follow, but we want to see whether you are God conscious. If you are not God conscious, then we take it simply useless waste of time, these so-called religions. Śrama eva hi kevalam. You understand Sanskrit.

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ
viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ
notpādayed yadi ratiṁ
śrama eva hi kevalam
(SB 1.2.8)

Śrama eva hi kevalam: "Simply waste of time, laboring." If one does not understand what is God, even after executing very rigorously about his own religious system, if he does not awaken his dormant God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he has simply wasted time.

Prof. Gombrich: But do you think for instance, in this country, if somebody is a Protestant, or I mean a Christian and goes to church, this is also, you don't try to convert them away from that?

Prabhupāda: No, no. We have no such process (indistinct).

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: How can be all Gods then? That is practical. If everyone is God, then what is the meaning of God? If... Do you think everyone is president, everyone is Indira Gandhi? Indira Gandhi is one. The Prime Minister cannot be many. It is a common sense. How everyone can be God? This is nonsense. Anyone thinks that there are many gods, he does not know what is God. Aiye. God is one. Ekaṁ brahma dvitīyaṁ nāsti. Therefore there is no education what is God. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagava... Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "Nobody else superior than Me." That is God. Asama-ūrdhva. God is described in the Bhagavad-gītā as asama-ūrdhva. You can come this side? Let them come forward. You sit down... (break) ...equal to God. And nobody can be greater than God. That is "God is great." If somebody becomes equal to you, how you can be great? Or if somebody is higher than you, then how you can be great? So there is no equal to God, nor greater than Him. That is God. And that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). (break) "...anyone greater than Me." That is God. There are so many Gods, false gods, nowadays. Can anyone say that "Nobody is greater than me"? All these rascal Gods, can he say? Can anyone say? Immediately... He feels some sickness. Immediately he has to call greater God, physician. And he's claiming, "I am God." We don't want such kind of God, manufactured God. We want real God. When we see nobody is greater than Him, that is God. (break) ...We accept so many pseudo, pretender as God. But we do not know how to test him, whether he is greater than everyone? Whether nobody is greater than him? Then he's God. Can you find out any, so many gods, who has no greater than him, or equal to him? You are claiming You are God, I am also claiming, God. Then we are equal. Then how you can be God or how I can be God? We are equals. As soon as you find there are equals, or as soon as find there is greater, then you are not God. God—the great. He must be greater than everyone. Therefore śāstra has concluded, īśvara, God; parama, the Supreme; Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). And why? Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1).

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So those who will act as brain, they must possess these qualities. But who is being taught these qualities? This modern civilization is teaching people how to steal, how to cheat, how to satisfy your own sense gratification. You see? No tolerance, no complete knowledge. All fools and rascals, no knowledge. Knowledge means they must know what is the aim of life, what is God, what we are, what is this material world, why we have come here. So many things. This is called God consciousness. There is no such educational institution all over the world. Is there any institution where it is being especially taught what is God, what I am. Is there any institution?

Banker: Well, there are metaphysics departments in almost every university.

Prabhupāda: Metaphysics department is there. I was also a student of philosophy. That is theories only. Of course, they are trying, psychology, metaphysics, ethics. You were also a student of philosophy?

Banker: I took some courses. My major courses were in business. But I took some in philosophy, ethic, logic.

Prabhupāda: So apart from that metaphysical, from this worldly platform, there must be divisions. Just like in your bank, if everyone is manager, that is not possible. There must be clerks and other assistants. So that is required. The society must be divided into four classes. That is brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra.

Banker: My question is how does one determine into which part he goes?

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kṣat means injury, and triya means one who delivers. Just like Parīkṣit Mahārāja, immediately took his sword, "Oh, why you are injuring one cow in my kingdom?" The kṣatriya's business is to give protection to the citizens from being injured by others. That is called kṣatriya. Brāhmaṇa means whose knowledge is so perfect that he knows what is God. That is brāhmaṇa. And śūdra means one who laments. Śocati ti śūdra. (?) Śocati.

Śrutakīrti: Na śocati na kāṅkṣati.

Prabhupāda: Śocati means in everything he laments. "Hai hai, I have lost so much things, I have not these things, I have not that thing." So at the present moment, all the people, they are so dissatisfied that they are all śūdras. Śūdra is always in want. So who is not, at the present moment, not in want? Everybody's in want. Therefore everybody is a śūdra now. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. And that is his qualification, always feeling in want, śocati. And his work is to serve others, master. A brāhmaṇa will not work under anybody. A kṣatriya will not work under anybody. Nowadays the industrial development has taken place because people are śūdras. They want some service. So-called technologists and laborers, and everything. Everyone is searching after good job. He cannot live independently, just like a dog. A dog cannot live independently. He must have a master. Then he is happy. Is it not? Otherwise it is street dog. So modern education is that they are creating śūdras, to become dependent on others. And therefore modern economic development is taking place because there are so many people, they are prepared to give them service. Suppose in your bank, if you withdraw from the service, the bank will stop. Industry will stop. So because there is no such division as brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. Everyone is śūdra. Therefore this economic development, so-called economic development, has become possible. But in spite of all this economic development, because people are śūdras, they cannot be happy. Because śocati, they will lament, strike. Even they are getting thousands of rupees, strike. Even they get five hundred thousands of rupees, still there will be strike. Because they are śūdras.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Even the doctors are going on strike now.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. As soon as you go against the standard rules and regulations, there must be some motive. That is politics. That is politics. All politicians, they are with motive. They are not for... Now, all these big, big political parties, they are fighting with one another. They are simply trying to keep their post and they are fighting for that. So where is the time for them to think of the general people, how they will be happy? There is no time. It is the Kṛṣṇa conscious people who are actually thinking of others. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Kṛpāmbudhir yas tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Vaiṣṇava qualification is he is unhappy by seeing others... (break) Let us enlighten them. Otherwise what is the use of working in this old age? (Aside:) Come on. Vaiṣṇava's qualification is para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. He is unhappy by seeing others unhappy. Because without God consciousness, without understanding "What I am, what is God, what is my relationship," everyone shall remain unhappy. There cannot be happiness. Without knowledge of God, nobody can be happy. Superficially they may try, so-called humanitarianism, this ism, that ism. Now, say for these Communists country, they have struggled for the last sixty years. They started from 1917. How many years?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Seventy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The Russian Revolution.

Prabhupāda: Seventy. Seventy. Yes, no, we were student at that time. So what they have done? They are changing, changing, changing. And I went to Moscow, I saw the people were not happy. There are so many things that is against one's psychological understanding. So many things. Therefore now they are going to hold some peace conference. Who told me? Oh, yes, Haṁsadūta. So without God consciousness, there cannot be any peace. That's a fact. Therefore our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is there. Tomorrow, when you are going?

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Jīva Gosvāmī. Jīva Gosvāmī has stated that unless we accept acintya, inconceivable energy, there is no conception of God. There is no conception of God. If you bring God to your conception, he's not God.

Umāpati: Acintya, acintya-bheda is a unique contribution of Vaiṣṇavas to the concept of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Actually, that is the fact. We cannot explain what is God. We have to accept what is God from God.

Yaśomatīnandana: Avaroha.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yaśomatīnandana: Avaroha process?

Prabhupāda: Yes, not ava... Yes, avaroha process. Yes, thank you. Here Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). We have to accept that. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). So "There is no more superior authority than Me." Harer nāma harer nāma... (CC Adi 17.21).

Yaśomatīnandana: (loud waves drowns out voice)

Prabhupāda: Ah, na me viduḥ sura-gaṇāḥ... (Bg 10.2).

Yaśomatīnandana: What to speak of these teeny scientists, even the great sages can't know Him.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Aham ādir hi devānām...

Yaśomatīnandana: Maharṣīṇāṁ ca sarvaśaḥ.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is their argument. Then what is the standard of that aspect? Just like in the material world we see, somebody richer than others. This is also aspect of material situation. So if one is millionaire, he is better than a person who has got a few coins. So similarly, your realization of God and my realization of God, different. So I may be greater realized than you. What do you say, theologian?

Prajāpati: Well, today, Prabhupāda most of the literature is written on subjects of death of God, an eclipse of God, the fact that the people in general, it's a secular society and no one is even discussing God.

Prabhupāda: That means they have failed. After discussing when they could not find out actually what is God, they have given up the idea. Failure.

Prajāpati: They think of it as actually a maturity. "We needed to talk about God when we were infants, and now we are advanced."

Prabhupāda: So maturity, you must give what is that standard God, if it is mature. Mature means you must give the real standard. That is mature. But if nobody of you can give the what is the real standard, then how it is mature? Bali Mardana Prabhu, what do you think? Mature means the final conclusion. Just like in scientific theory. All the scientists come into conclusion, "Yes, this is the..."

Bali Mardana: It's just an excuse because they don't know.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes, they don't know. That's it.

Karandhara: No, they've just become mature atheists.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: Many of the men who founded this country were very pious, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Prajāpati: Some of the founding fathers of the country were very pious because...

Prabhupāda: You are still pious. Otherwise, how you have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness? You are still pious, but you are misguided. Your, your nation is very good. I like the American nation. Simply little reformation required. Now just, for example, this "In God we trust." This is very nice example. Now, they do not know what is God, how to trust. That is, that has to be done. That has to be learned.

Prajāpati: Trust means to depend completely upon God?

Prabhupāda: Eh? Just like Arjuna. While Arjuna was fighting the battle, he completely depended on Kṛṣṇa. But he was not idle. Completely, to depend completely on God does not mean idleness. Arjuna is the example. Kṛṣṇa never advised Arjuna that "You are My friend. You are My devotee, completely dependent upon Me. So you can sit down." Never said like that. Similarly, we should remain always completely dependent upon God. That does not mean we shall be lazy and idle and gossiping. We must fully utilize the intelligence which God has given us, but at the same time, we must completely depend on God. This is called "In God we trust."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is called?

Prabhupāda: "We trust in God." I am speaking that American currency notes bears the slogan, "In God we trust."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: "We trust in God." I am speaking that American currency notes bears the slogan, "In God we trust."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: I am talking on that matter. So if the American nation trusts in God... If not... They say, they have declared. Now, the difficulty is they do not know actually what is God, how to trust. That we are teaching. So the government must come forward to cooperate with us. This should be... There should be an agitation. Now this "In God we trust," it is, it is something like vague idea. There is a need of... (aside:) You can make copy from there. If you bring one dozen like this, then it is difficult to walk. (about tape recorders) So our propaganda should be to the United, I mean to say, United States government and public. And you are theologicians. You should make program that simply saying that "In God we trust," and we do all nonsense, which exhibits that we do not trust in God, this thing should be stopped. You have placed in your Constitution, there is, you trust in God. Now you should understand what is God and how to trust. That we are teaching. This should be taken very seriously. Because you cannot change your Constitution. Already there is that. But you must know it perfectly well what is God and how to trust Him. That science we are teaching, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. The government should cooperate fully. There should be school, college, to understand what is God, how to trust. This movement should be started. What do you think?

Karandhara: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: There cannot be impious Christian or pious Christian. Christian must be pious. If somebody's impious, then he's not Christian. (break) ...impious thief cannot be. Thief is always impious. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma... (CC Adi 17.21). (break)

Prajāpati: ...trusting in God. And then, when they realize they are not, then we can show them how to trust in God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "You do not know. You come to us and learn how to trust, how to know. And if you speak lies that you do not know what is God that is a different thing. Then you should be punished." People should be given chance of believing, trusting in God. They have declared. So it is their duty. The state duty is to see how people are trusting. That is state's duty. Constitution says that nobody can steal. Is it not state's duty that people are not becoming thieves and stealing? Is it not the duty of the state? Similarly, if you, if you have accepted this that "In God we trust," you must see that everyone trusts in God. And that is scientifically. Not sentimentally. It is the duty of the state to see.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like in an empty slogan. The slogan is empty.

Prabhupāda: So that is not required. It must be practical. Empty slogan has no meaning.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The way it's written...

Devotee: Why was, why was Lord Rāma letting Rāvaṇa live in Laṅkā?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee: Why was He permitting him to live there? He was irreligious. He did not trust in God. Why was Lord Rāma letting him...?

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Turn your whole nation, turn into God consciousness, because they've declared in the Constitution, "In God we trust." Now they must take it very seriously. What does it mean by "God"? What does it mean by "trust"? You take this propaganda. We are doing, actually. We trust in God; therefore we have sacrificed our whole life for God. This is trust in God. Not that smoking in the parlor, and you trust in God. Not that kind of trust. Real trust. Trust means first of all you know what is God. Suppose that if you say "Trust this man." But I must know what is this man. Then my trust will be convinced, that "He is very respectful man, he's rich man, he's able man..." Yes, I can trust. But simply trust in God, you do not know what is God, what is trust, and it is going on. Why this bluff? Ah? What you say?

Prajāpati: That that's right, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So you must take this clue, that we Americans, we say "In God we trust." Now, every American should know what is God, what is trust. This is propaganda, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The government must come forward to patronize this. This is my proposition. So you write articles, you are theologicians. The America must rise up to the occasion. They have pledged themselves, "In God we trust." Every human nation or every human being should be like that. In God they must trust. So America, especially taken up the slogan as part of Constitution. Now there should be regular educational program, that every child, every man, every woman will trust in God. And this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So? Am I wrong in my arguments?

Devotee: No, correct.

Prabhupāda: So why don't you take it seriously, you American boys?

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. We do not expect that everyone will agree. Everybody will disagree. Just like our book. Say, four, five years ago, nobody knew these books. So there was no market. But we have created our market. That is preaching. We have created our market. Nobody was dying for want of these books. So that is preaching. Preaching does not mean everyone is ready to accept your theories. You must expect that everyone will not accept it. Now it is your power to convince him, "Yes, you must accept." That is preaching.

Hṛdayānanda: Jaya, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: They must know what is God, how to trust Him, why we shall trust God, what is the benefit. These things should be known, properly educated.

Hṛdayānanda: Jaya, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: And we have got the science. We are not speaking blindly or, what is called, sentimentally. (japa) (break)

Prajāpati: ...movement for the church today, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is called the ecumenical movement. Ecumenical movement means all the different divergent groups are trying to get together to understand..., you know, make a common ground. Now we have the perfect platform...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prajāpati: ...for giving them that common ground.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is your duty. You do it as theologicians. Bring them on the platform. This so-called church is going on. They're doing all sorts of sinful activities, and it is going on church and religion. Therefore the importance of Christian religion is diminishing. How they can bluff all the time? (japa)

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: The Arabs, some of the Arabs, they say they believe in God, but that everyone else is...

Prabhupāda: Nobody believes in God. That is our proposition. Nobody believes... All this bogus. Now they should come to understand what is God. This, in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Nobody believes, neither know what is God. Here we are giving the name, the address, the form, the activities, everything of God—Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Let all the Arabians, all the Americans, let come to us. Those who are chief men, intelligent man, we shall convince them. That is our preaching.

Karandhara: There's one Arab leader, he goes to the temple five times a day, he doesn't eat meat, er, doesn't drink liquor or smoke or go out with women...

Prabhupāda: Yes, these are, these are prohibited in Muhammadan villages.

Karandhara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But still it is good. To some extent, he's advanced.

Karandhara: He doesn't allow any liquor shops or tobacco shops in this country.

Prabhupāda: Yeah, that's good.

Karandhara: Khadafi.

Hṛdayānanda: Which country is it?

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (Prabhupāda gets in the car)

Prabhupāda: If you can educate the people. "Don't vote for the rascals. Just try to understand who is the real man, who is the real leader."

Hṛdayānanda: So political program is very important.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If public is educated to select right type of leader, then automatically... And it is very easy thing that "Leader must be faithful. A leader must know what is God and how to trust in Him. And he must be free from all sinful activities. The pillars of sinful activities are these." This is our propaganda. (end)

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...two classes of men: the communist and the non-communist. Not exactly communist and capitalist, but communist and non-communist. Out of these two, the communists are going to be powerful. This is the world tendency. So if the world becomes full of communists, then the human civilization will be finished. All rogues and rascals, that's all. The American government wants to check this tendency. But they cannot check it if they remain "so-called trust in God." That will not be possible. So according to our proposition... Not only now, it is forever. Two classes of men are there: sura and asura. Surāsura. Viṣṇu-bhakto bhaved devaḥ. Deva and sura, the same thing. Asuras tad viparyayaḥ. And the asura, or the demons, godless. So if the Americans remain godless in the name of so-called trust in God, they will not be able to check this communistic movement. They will not be able. Now, if they are serious to check this communistic movement, save the American country as well as the whole world, then they must be very serious to understand what is God and what is trust in God. Otherwise this communistic movement will finish the civilized human society. So you are thoughtful. They must be very serious about it. And this is the only movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which can make all people actually trust in God and explain what is meant by God. Demons, they... If the communists are demons and the capitalists are also demons, fighting between demons, there will be war and loss of life, but nobody will come out victorious. That is going on. There is occasional world war, but the situation of the world remains the same. No party has become able to change the situation of the world. What do you think, Karandhara?

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Simply they fight and loss of life and money, energy. War must be for the good. If there is some war, it must be for some good. But where is that goodness? The world remains the same; rather, it becomes more worst. Then why fight? But they will fight. Because both of them demons, they will fight. But not for any good result. War means... War is not bad. Just like disease. If somebody is diseased, then he becomes healthy. The whole polluted situation of the body becomes repaired. Just like when you get a boil or dysentery, all the poisons of the body, they become purged out. Then your health becomes nice. That is the law, nature's law. Similarly, war or famine or pestilence, they are meant for purging out all undesirable men. But the demonic principle is so strong that it is not becoming so. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Make this approach. The Americans have placed in their constitution, "In God we Trust." It should be done very scientifically and philosophically, what is God and what is that trust, not a vague idea. Vague ideas will not help. They will not be able to conquer over the atheistic world. Actually, if there is organized party who believe in God factually, then this demon class of men will always be vanquished. Yes. Just like there was war between the surāsura, demigods and the asuras. God, Viṣṇu, took side of the demigods and came out victorious. But if both of them are demons, why Viṣṇu will take side of anyone of them? "You fight and go to hell." That is going on. (break)

Umāpati: ...I think that we were discussing the political possibilities of putting devotees into office, and we came up with the astounding discovery that we almost represent everything that is against western values. We represent austerity. We represent God consciousness. We represent restriction of sexual freedom, intoxication. All the four regulative principles are almost totally in opposite to western desires.

Prabhupāda: That means western people are all demons.

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: He was talking of all these materialistic persons as bokā or fools. So I repeat his word. Bokā.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Insects.

Prabhupāda: Bokā means fool. You don't say this bokā?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Bokā, insects, is that?

Prabhupāda: Insane, yes. So they are all insane. Anyone who has no clear knowledge what is the aim of life, what is God, "what is my relationship," one who does not know all these things, he is a bokā, illusioned. He is hovering in darkness. Therefore, whatever he is doing, it is defeat. That we see practically. So many scientists, so many philosophers, politicians, are engaged to bring in a better condition in the world, but they are failure. In the darkness they are working. They do not know. One bokā is trying to excel another bokā. This is going on. (break) ...great personality, Rabindranath Tagore, he used to say, a bokā. Actually he is so. What he has done? He has given some imaginary songs, that's all. What benefit the people will derive out of it? Simply waste of time, that's all. (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...could have written a lot of Vaiṣṇava songs, if he were a Vaiṣṇava.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But he borrowed the idea from Vaiṣṇava. His guru, not exactly guru... In his zamindari, Golpur, he was going to a Vaiṣṇava, Baul. But Baul is sahajiyā. So he got the idea of Vaiṣṇavism, but because he was not Vaiṣṇava, he presented his idea in a different way. That is his Gītāñjali. Gītāñjali is the depiction of the idea he got from that Baul.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: His songs are so popular in Bengal.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Belonging to the Ford family?

Devotee: Not the people that make the cars, no. Different Ford.

Prajāpati: If we were there and we could make one speech in front of that assembled Congress and Senate, the main government of the United States, what were the main points we would stress?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The main point is that "In God we trust," on this slogan... So the same point that, "What do you mean by God and what do you mean by trust? That you do not know." So you have to explain what is God and what is trust, thoroughly, from our books. Our point of propaganda should be that "It is very good that you write this slogan, 'In God we trust,' but nobody has got clear conception of God; neither they do not know what is the meaning of trust. Under the circumstances, so you have to learn it scientifically. And our propaganda is like that, to teach actually what is God and what is trust. And you important men of the state, you come forward, try to understand, and open schools, colleges. Make it perfectly known what is God. And make America strong. As the Communist party, they are preaching godlessness, now America should preach, 'No, in God we trust.' Now there should be a fight, not on the political point of view, but actually it includes everything. A class of men godless and a class of men who knows God. There should be fight. Then there will be peace in the world. The class of men who do not believe in God, they should be punished, because they are creating all the troubles. A man who trusts in God, he is the ideal man. He will never create any trouble. Therefore this science should be learned very scientifically.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: And we are prepared. And you also must be able to teach them. Then it will be successful." (Aside:) You leave little aloof. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. "Anyone who does not know what is God and does not know how to trust in God, he is animal. So how you can expect a human civilization composed of some animals? That you have to learn from us. If you are serious. If you simply make it a slogan, but you remain same as the man who does not know what is God, then what is the meaning of this slogan? That will not help you." Just like sometimes they put the signboard, "Goodman and Company," businessmen. The signboard is "Goodman," but he is cheating simply, from business point of view. That kind of signboard will not help you. If you actually believe in God, then try to understand what is God. Otherwise how you can believe? If you do not know the person in whom you have to trust, how you can trust Him? Is it clear or not? I say, "Trust in Him," but if I do not know that man, how I can trust? You must explain that "This man is in this way trustworthy." Otherwise what is the meaning of my trust? This science should be understood, what is God and what is trust. That you discuss thoroughly, threadbare. Otherwise how you will be able to preach? Ask all questions. I will answer. But you must be thoroughly conversant that there is need of God and everyone must trust in God. This is the standard of civilization. God is there. Without God, there cannot be anything existing. This is first point. And we must trust in God. Those who are speaking, "In God we trust," at least they believe that there is God. Now, where is God, how He is living, what He is doing, this must be known. Just like in your America, there is need of a president. But those who are advanced in American history, they must know what is that president, what is his position, what is the constitution. That is, means perfect knowledge must be there about God, and perfect knowledge how to trust Him. This is now required. Otherwise the world is going to... Not that theologicians' speculation on God. First thing is, there is God. Now, how people can be convinced that there is God? Tell me. Speak.

Girirāja: Well, all of these different varieties of plants, animals, planetary systems, the sun rising, there has to be some controller, some brain who has made this order.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Then? The president is one. Either you don't know or I don't know. So we must know what is that president. This is first point, what is God.

Devotee: By argument you can convince a skeptic of the possibility of the existence of God, but the reality of Godhead can only be really realized... I mean has to be experienced or realized, does it not?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a point of realization. But the first preamble is that there must be God, the Supreme Being. In the dictionary it is stated, Supreme Being. So as in every department, everywhere, there is a supreme controller. Same example. The president is the supreme controller of this state. United States. In another state, in India also, the president is the supreme controller. Similarly, taking the whole universe or many such millions of universes taken together, there must be a Supreme Being. Otherwise how things are going on, nicely? (break) This is our first point.

Devotee: The scientists say that everything had its origin with a big bang. All of a sudden one day there was a big bang and everything came into being.

Prabhupāda: What is that big bang. You do not know. It is your suggestion. Big bang means big brain or what? Big bang? What is that, a big bang?

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They have so many things. They simply speak like rascals. Therefore our conclusion is: Anyone who does not know what is God, he is a rascal. That is perfection of knowledge. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). These rascals, they do not know that all knowledge is imperfect unless he comes to the platform of knowing God. All knowledge imperfect. And that is confirmed in the Bhagavad..., bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: (BG 7.19) "When he (is) actually wise in knowledge, then he surrenders to God." That is knowledge. That is knowledge. One who has surrendered to God, one who has known God, one who is abiding by the order of God, he is the perfect man. All others, they are rascals.

Prajāpati: After hearing such nice information about God, I think some sincere men might come forward and say...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Any gentleman, any sincere man, must accept this proposition. It is so logical.

Prajāpati: They will come forward and say, "Now, what practical can we do to help implement these in the government, in the world? What can we do practical?"

Prabhupāda: Yes. That you take instruction from us. Because you are all rascals, you do not know. We are experienced. Take advice from us. First thing is that you close the slaughterhouse. Close the liquor house. Will they do that?

Prajāpati: It is a question of business. Businessmen have so much control...

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They are rascal. They are rascal. Maybe some of them are innocent also. But mostly they are rascal because without being first-class rascal, one cannot go into politics. Just like if somebody says... Now, election. Somebody says that "You become vice-president." So why shall I become vice-president? Because I know I shall not be able to do anything. So why shall I waste my time? So another rascal, he will be ready. "Oh, offering vice-president?" But I know that if I want to manage the state, I have to make the people sinless. So if I propose that "Stop this slaughterhouse," so who will accept me? So why shall I go there? Nobody will accept me. Senate, senators, they will say, "Oh, this is business. This is impractical. You have no experience." He will immediately reject. So therefore mass of people must be conscious what is God, what is sin. So when they will be prepared, these rascals will be changed.

Devotee: They would lose too much money if they closed the slaughterhouses. Many of the senators and congressmen have much money from the slaughterhouses and intoxication. They own big ranches of cows and bulls.

Prabhupāda: Just see. And they are leaders. The most sinful man is the leader. So how you can be happy?

Prajāpati: We would get support from the people who make imitation meat made of soybeans and vegetables that taste like meat. They would be in favor.

Girirāja: No, they will say that "It is not against our religion to eat meat."

Prabhupāda: It is not religion. It is a question of becoming sinless. Every religion will say that you become sinless. Every religion.

Girirāja: But in my religion eating meat is not a sin.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They will do that. Because people are degrading. They are not advancing.

Prajāpati: When we tell them to stop their sinful activities, they will say "What do you mean by sinful?"

Prabhupāda: Sinful means, generally, what is against the law of God. That is sinful. Just like what is criminal? Any action which is against the law of the state, that is criminal. Similarly, sinful means what is against the law of God. That is sinful. But you do not know what is God. You do not know what is the law of God. Therefore you do not know what is sin. That you have to learn from us. It is all due to ignorance. Now God says, "I am the father of all living entities." So this is quite reasonable. If there is God... So... And it is stated in the Vedic literature, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He is the chief eternal. So we are all sons of God. What we are? Simply human being? No. In the Bhagavad, sarva-yoniṣu: "In all species of life, as many forms are there, I am the bīja-pradaḥ-pitā." So everyone is your brother. So suppose if you want to cut throat of your brother, will your father be happy?

Devotee: No.

Prabhupāda: So because you are not God conscious you are doing all this nonsense. You do not know who is father. Therefore you cut throat, your brother. (break) ...that those who are eating vegetables, they are also killing. That's a fact. But God says that "You can eat this." God says... By nature... Just like the animal. They will eat these leaves, the grass. Nature. But they will not eat meat. Tena tyaktena. Whatever God dictates, "Now you eat this," He is eating. But you give him meat. No, he will not take it. So whatever you are allotted, you should eat. That is God's law, that after all, one has to eat. So what you will eat? Everything is living. Therefore allotted. You are allotted, "These things is allotted for you. You eat." We God conscious people therefore eat... Without going into the details, we eat anything what God eats. That's all. There is no question of discriminating what we shall eat. We eat prasādam. That's all. So we are safe.

Morning Walk -- December 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Find out and arrange some meeting. I shall go personally.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: How many senators here in California?

Karandhara: Two per state. (break)

Prabhupāda: As we know about God, nobody knows in the world. That is a fact. Any person we can challenge that he has no clear idea, what is God, how to contact God, how to... Nobody knows. (break)

Prajāpati: ...a vague notion that they should be serving God, but they do not know how or what will please God.

Prabhupāda: Vague notion must be there because we have got relationship with God, eternal. So that is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Nitya-siddha. It is eternally a fact that we are servant of God, but we have forgotten this. So that has to be revived by this śravaṇa-kīrtana, by hearing, chanting. This is the process. Otherwise, the relationship is already there. It is not to be created. It is already there. (break)

Prajāpati: An article appeared about the Vedānta Society here, and they mentioned us to say that we are not them. They said that "Those Hare Kṛṣṇas, they are fundamentalists." Just like there are fundamentalist Christians, we are fundamentalist followers of Kṛṣṇa. So it is very nice actually because it is fundamental to believe everything that Kṛṣṇa says.

Prabhupāda: And what is the Vedānta?

Hṛdayānanda: Speculation. They are speculators. They mostly have very elderly members, and they sit around in the evening and discuss.

Morning Walk -- December 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So these rascals will change every year their theology. So what is the value of their words? Childish. (break) ...changes, he is a rascal. That is our... We say, "Kṛṣṇa the Supreme." We never change it. And "Surrender is the only process." We shall never change it. In any circumstance we will not change it. That is the difference. And these rascals will change every year their opinion. They are rascals. (break) ...They are rascals. (break) Kṛṣṇa said that "I am the Supreme." So Arjuna accepted, the Supreme. All the ācāryas accepted the Supreme. Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted, Supreme. My Guru Mahārāja accepted, Supreme. I am accepting, Supreme. I am teaching the same thing. So there is no change. Not that after a few years it will be changed. That never be. That is our position. (break) Changing means material. Anything material is susceptible to change. Like this material body. I am changing my body, but I am the spirit soul. I am not changing. That is the difference. So all these so-called theologicians, they have no idea what is spiritual knowledge. All rascals. They cannot understand what is God. That I have explained. Simply speculating. It will not help. (break) (Hindi) (some Indian people have joined the walk) Now we are talking of one theologician. Some years ago just... Narrate the... Yes.

Prajāpati: This basic thesis of the leading theologian in our country... He's saying that the poor people are closer to God and God is specifically looking on their cause more than anyone else. He's at Harvard University.

Prabhupāda: But the one thing is, who is poor? Admitting. We admit, of course, that God is specially interested with the fallen or degraded. But first thing is that who is fallen? Who is poor? That is to be ascertained.

Guest (1) (Indian man): But there is one more thing. I don't think God could be so partial that He would...

Prabhupāda: No, God cannot be partial.

Guest (1): ...that he would look only to the poor. But as there is a saying in Hindi that (Hindi) So they say, "When a man is poor, and he is miserable, then he remembers more God."

Page Title:What is God (Conversations 1968 - 1973)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:14 of Apr, 2013
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=95, Let=0
No. of Quotes:95