Devotee (5): Prabhupāda, you mentioned a person who commits sins because he is in ignorance.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (5): What if the person knows what he is doing is wrong, and he knows what the ultimate result of his doings is also wrong, but he still commits? Is that still ignorance?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is ignorance-rooted, ignorance, heart, rooted in the heart. That can be... Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommends ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). You have to cleanse your heart. Then, when your heart is cleansed, then you will say, "No, no. No more I am going to do this. I have suffered so much. No. No." That is real knowledge. Unless your heart is cleansed, then, even though you know that "By committing theft I will be punished," you will commit, because the heart is not clear. Even though one knows that "By doing this, I will suffer," still, he will do that. That distinction is always there. Therefore the only method is this cleansing process in this age, Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra.