Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...is in ignorance. Combination of matter and soul, moving animals. Some of them are standing as trees and plant, and some of them are moving. Where is the science to study? What is your value of knowledge? Hm? If they do not know the fundamental things, then what is the value of their knowledge? Simply observation, superficial, externally. There is good scope. They are receiving these books. We should take chance of preaching this Bhāgavatam, and the classes should be held especially.... No, the religious classes are already there. Let them study Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā. And they will accept it. They are not fools. Simply we have to introduce it. The Western people, they are not fools, but misguided. So you take the charge of guiding them; then Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will be successful. They will appreciate, they will take it up and reform, and their life will be successful. And if they utilize their intelligence how to reduce population and kill child within the womb and "There is no soul in the womb. When they come out then the soul becomes"—what is this nonsense? Unless there is soul, how it becomes manifest?
Western people (Conversations 1976 - 1977)
Expressions researched:
"people"
|"west"
|"western"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Its literature was hardly read. Kīrtana was looked upon not as a form of prayer but as a means of gratification by people of loose morals. Most of the Vaiṣṇava followers of the period lost their high standard of morality, their loving aestheticism, their intellectual superiority and devotional fervor, which were the main characteristics of the previous masters. The influx of Western ideas came in, and English educated people fell into the hands of Christians. Fortunately, at that time, we got a great Vaiṣṇava savant and scholar, Ṭhākura Kedāranātha Bhaktivinoda, who wrote widely and successfully created an interest among the educated public in Vaiṣṇava religion and literature. His discovery of Śrīdhāma Māyāpura, the birthplace of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, which was so long hidden from the public eye, gave a new impetus to its propagation. The age of Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavism set in. Thereafter, Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Ṭhākura took hold of Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavism with a vow to propagate it in its true perspective, even as it was practiced with unparalleled and unprecedented transcendentalism by Śrī Rūpa and Śrī Sanātana Gosvāmīs, followers of Śrī Caitanya. In proper time, he got a great personality who readily shouldered the..."
Prabhupāda: Yes, naturally.
Bhavānanda: People are attracted by the Westerners coming to the maṭha. So if we're up at that maṭha, any of us, and then they say, "Just see." They say in Bengali, "Just see. They are coming. To see our guru mahārāja, they are coming."
Prabhupāda: That was the policy of Mādhava Mahārāja and Śrīdhara Mahārāja, that "Although Bhaktivedanta Swami is propagating throughout, he is subordinate to us, under our instruction." So all these three...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A real dream world they are living in.
Prabhupāda: Actually we are introducing the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to make the Western people civilized. Yes. So you should take it very seriously and behave with responsibility. If you also want, become again like that, then how you'll be able to preach? Then what is the use of preaching? What is time?
Indian man (1): Six-thirty.
Jayapatākā: (Break) ...process.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayapatākā: So is it necessary to be fixed up to take sannyāsa, or one should take sannyāsa to become fixed up?
Jayapatākā: Your Divine Grace is so merciful because the Western people, they are habituated to so many bad habits which weren't existed, existing in the Vedic time amongst the higher classes. Still, you are introducing all these things for them. Many times devotees, they don't take that seriously.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Bengali) Ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati. What is this? (break) ...our field or some other field, but food must be there. If you don't eat sufficiently, how you'll be able to work? Yuktāhāra-vihārasya. We are not after dry speculation. Practical. Eat sufficiently. Work sufficiently. Don't be lazy. But the danger is if you eat more than sufficient, then you'll sleep sufficient. Therefore yuktāhāra, as much as you require, take it. Don't take more; don't take less. This is the law of nature. Just like salt. You salt require. But if you take more, it is useless, and if you take less, it is useless. If in the vegetable the salt is more, then it is uneatable; if it is less, uneatable. Take as it is. It is not that "Because there is ocean of salt, let me three pounds' salt." That is going on. "Oh, it is available? Now let me eat." And then he becomes sick.
Prabhupāda: Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he has no good quality. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). These are the... From the Vedic angle of vision, the Western people are the most uncivilized. Only money is covering them. When they introduced that mini-skirt for the girl, how much abominable it was considered in India. But they very publicly introduced.
Hari-śauri: Now even in India, slowly...
Prabhupāda: Yes. They'll imitate.
Devotee (1): When the prime minister of Canada, when he was, when he first began running, he was a young bachelor, very good looking, long hair. And he sent around girls in mini-skirts, kissing men on the cheeks, giving them a little candy for his campaign, and he, he almost got all the votes, became the prime minister.
Prabhupāda: "These people, they have no illicit sex, no intoxication?" Oh, immediately they become praising, "Such wonderful men. No illicit sex?" which is unknown to you, the Western people.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They think it is like Superman.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Superman, actually. That is the fact.
Satsvarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, today starts a big international convention for the Association for Asian Studies, and we're there. It's in Toronto. We have an advertisement in this book, with Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, with a quote by that Bruce Long. And we have that big sign at our booth: "The largest publisher and distributor of books on the philosophy, culture and religion of India." This shows also with all the exhibitors, we're listed, the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. And this is where we are, this booth here.
Reporter (2): When you visited the Soviet Union, Swamiji, did you find the atmosphere worse than it is in Western countries, say? Are the people...
Prabhupāda: Everywhere the people are very good, but the leaders are bad.
Reporter (2): Did you meet any of them? No.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I talked with one of the best leaders, Professor Kotovsky. He is the professor of Indology. I talked with him. I have studied. The people are generally very good.
Reporter (2): But did you hold any meetings or anything?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is one very nice cause. The cause is, the Western people, they have no attachment for wife. Is it not a fact?
Pṛthu-putra: Yes.
Prabhupāda: They do not care for the wife.
Pṛthu-putra: They do not care for family attachment in general.
Akṣayānanda: That vairāgya is due to frustration.
Prabhupāda: Whatever the cause...
Akṣayānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Very poor farmers came up very nicely to greet Prabhupāda.
Devotee (1): Western people want to think they're the body. Otherwise how can they enjoy all their technology?
Prabhupāda: Hm? What is that?
Devotee (1): They want to think they're the body. They don't want to hear that "I'm not the body," because if they're not in illusion, they can't try and enjoy so much the things of the West.
Prabhupāda: That means foolish, less intelligent.
Devotee (3): They say it is the upside-down river. It is more blue on the bottom than it is on the top.
Devotee (2): In factories they put all of their waste into the river. (break)
Devotee (1): Prabhupāda, last night you were describing how people serve their dogs. And now, in the Western countries, they have restaurants where you can take your dog, and he sits at the table with you and they serve a meal for him. And they have catering services. You can call up, and they will bring a special meal to your dog, so he can eat at his home. They have beauty parlors for dogs, everything.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they have taken dogs as God. According to Vedic civilization, dog is untouchable. (break) ...all the centers, then how many days it takes?
Prabhupāda: I do not know how long you'll learn.
Hari-śauri: (laughs) It's like you said in Māyāpura. It's a little artificial for us. It's very.... It's not...
Prabhupāda: Cleanliness unknown to the Western people.
Hari-śauri: That's a fact.
Prabhupāda: Śaucam. Satya-śaucābhyām. Śaucam means cleanliness. The Western people, they do not know what is cleanliness. And therefore brāhmaṇa's another name is śuci, always clean. Three times' bathing, three times' changing cloth. It doesn't matter, loin cloth, but cloth must be changed.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Outer cloth?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: People don't see what the gain will be. If one.... People don't see, in Western countries, or appreciate what the gain will be by exerting much effort in these ways.
Prabhupāda: That they do not know, what is the real gain. They think this body is the gain only. And beyond this body there is another gain. That is not known. They do not know even. That is the defect of their civilization. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). They are taking care of the body, but beyond the body there is something else which is eternal. Even after the annihilation of the body, it does not become destroyed. That they do not know. There is no education. There is no research. There is no college. There is no science to understand. And that kind of taking care of the body, a dogs know. Sometimes the dogs, they rub their body on the ground like that. That.... That makes them rejuvenated. Horse also do that. So how to take care of the body, they know in their different method. But that is known to them. If before the horse you give them some meat, they'll not take. And give them peas; they'll take immediately.
Devotee (5): They limit the supply so they can sell things for higher prices.
Prabhupāda: No, here the American policy, the Western policy, that if the people get easily food, they'll not come to work in the industry. That is their policy. If they get cheap food, then they won't work. That is human nature.
Devotee (5): That is very interesting.
Prabhupāda: Ha?
Devotee (5): That's very interesting.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So they want to keep them starving or in want, so they'll come and produce and make the capitalists rich. This is the system. (break) ...idea, but...
Prabhupāda: And if you don't become servant of God, then you become servant of dog. That is your advancement of civilization. When there is no service for God, just like here we have got service for God, there is no question of serving dog. But when we forget service of God, then automatically we become service of dog. But service.... I am servant, that's a fact. And voluntarily keep a dog and serve him. They have no master, then I keep a master, dog, cat. You call it by the name, pet. What is a pet? I do service, that's all. So this is our advancement of civilization. We have refused to serve God, and you voluntarily accept to serve dog. Now in India, they are also learning. (chuckles) And formerly, dog keeping, dog there was in the neighborhood. But they were not allowed to enter the room or house. Now, they are keeping dogs just like the Western people keep. They are making dog show and so on, so on.
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Nalinīkaṇṭha: In the West, people are generally unfamiliar, I think, with the philosophy of Śaṅkara, yet in your books you devote so much argument to defeating Māyāvāda philosophy. I was wondering if it is within every conditioned soul's heart to be an impersonalist. Is it.... Does every conditioned soul have the propensity for impersonalism?
Prabhupāda: No, they cannot understand God; therefore it is impersonalism. It is due to their poor fund of knowledge. So most people are in poor fund of knowledge.
Hari-śauri: As soon as one forgets Kṛṣṇa, he's impersonal.
Prabhupāda: I shall request that.... There is no question of Eastern, Western. Now people are intermingling. Now I think that we shall have institution, especially in America, to train these first class, second class, third class, and the balance fourth class. Who cannot take up any training, they are fourth class. So how they should be trained up, that indication is there. It is not the question of Eastern and Western. You become peaceful...
Scheverman: Now, how would you proceed in this training program? I'd be interested in that.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is.... If I say that "Live peacefully," this instruction is neither exclusively for America or Indian. It is for everyone.
Scheverman: That's universal, peaceful, that's universal.
Prabhupāda: Universal. What is another quality? Peaceful, and then?
Prabhupāda: That's nice. Then give them prasāda, and if they chant, then it is all right.
Hari-śauri: They'll pay that easily for a wedding. It's a big thing for Indians. Even in the West people....
Prabhupāda: Whatever they do, but prasāda will be distributed by us, and they must chant for half an hour. (laughter) Then we accept. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Viśvakarmā: How should I satisfy them for the desire for a fire, as Jagadīśa was saying?
Prabhupāda: They can have their own fire. What is that? They'll chant some Vedic mantra, that's all right. But they must chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.
Jagadīśa: We can allow them to have a fire here?
Prabhupāda: Hitachi, yes. This is a church?
Kīrtanānanda: No, this is an institution, state institution for old people or mental home. I forget. "Western State School." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...Hayagrīva.
Kīrtanānanda: I think he's in Los Angeles.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Kīrtanānanda: I'm trying to get him to bring his boy to New Vrindaban. He's down there with those meat-eaters.
Prabhupāda: She is not agreeable? I think that she is not very well treated by her husband.
Prabhupāda: They say about the Westerners, you do not know? They say paścime lokā mūla nacaḥ.(?) The Western people, they are rascals and misbehaved.
Kīrtanānanda: Misbehaved, that's a fact.
Prabhupāda: Paścime loka mūla nacaḥ.(?) This means from India, the farther you go to the western side you'll find only rascals and misbehaved. From Punjab you go to Afghanistan and then Iran then so on, so on, Europe. These are paścima, Western people. Paścime loka mūla nacaḥ. Actually he meant it for Indian paścima, east and west. You came before here, New Vrindaban?
Ṛṣi Kumāra: Yes, I was here, but a long time ago, when they just had the little farm, about six years ago.
Prabhupāda: What did he say?
Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but generally. We do not derive any benefit from those. People read it, especially in the Western counties. If there is no newspaper it is hell. I told you this story? Yes. You can repeat that.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: The preacher was preaching to the coal miners that if they were not good, they would go to hell, and in hell it was very cold. So they were thinking, "So it is very cold in the mine." Then he was saying that it is very dark in hell. "But it is very dark in the mine." Then he said "And there are no newspapers." "Oh, how horrible, what a horrible place that must be."
Prabhupāda: When they heard in the hell there is no newspaper, then came to the idea, "Oh, it is horrible." Otherwise, cold, dark, "Oh, this is our custom. We are already accustomed to these habits, we are working in the mine. So don't make any distinction between hell and our present residential quarters. But if there is no newspaper, certainly that is hell."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What we've been doing with the dead cows is burying them, there's no..., everything's wasted. Śrīla Prabhupāda is proposing that why not the butcher take, we give free, he simply returns us the skin of the cow, and with the cow hide we properly tan it, we can make mṛdaṅga heads for the khol, and shoes, straps, whatever may be needed. The idea being that in the Western countries especially, people are accustomed to eating animals, animal flesh. So we have no objection.
Prabhupāda: Beef, especially beef.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Especially cows and beef. So we have no objection, but they should at least wait until it dies naturally. What is the harm? They still get the same thing, and one devotee, Kīrtanānanda, I think, was saying that when they slaughter an animal even in the slaughterhouse, it has to sit some time, some number of days before they distribute it. So I proposed that the Westerners, they consider that this is superstitious, this protection of the cow.
Prabhupāda: Jagannātha Purī?
Guest (4): Are these administrators fallen?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He's asking why can't your disciples from the West in particular, who are low-class particular people, like the Mohammedans, as traditional, they are not allowed in the Jagannātha Purī temple.
Prabhupāda: That is their fault. They should not have done so. That is their, what is called? Sectarian prejudice.
Guest (4): Was that the policy when Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura ran the temple? I understand that he at one time was the main administrator. (loud crashing of thunder)
Prabhupāda: No, we are pushing on this movement all over the world. It is not that this particular place is important, but our interest is that Western people... They are so intelligent. They are very systematically making improvement in material condition of life. They should know also that spiritual life is more important than material life. Because, for example, we are combination of matter and spirit. So long the spirit soul is there, our body is very important. Otherwise, without spirit, the body has no importance. Everyone can understand. Similarly, all this material advancement of civilization is very good, provided there is spiritual understanding also. Otherwise it is decoration of the dead body. A dead body decorated has no value, but when there is life, then the body is valuable. So material advancement of material civilization means decoration of the dead body. But when there is spiritual understanding, then there is importance of everything.
Indian man (3): I wanted to ask you a question. While talking to some of the European people, when we say that Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that asked him to fight, kill his own relatives and friends and not to bother about the consequences of the action. Now this statement sometimes is difficult for people of the West to understand, where they say before you do any action you should know the consequences and then only take action...
Prabhupāda: That is the only statement in the Bhagavad-gītā? There is no other statement?
Indian man (3): There is, but...
Prabhupāda: So you have captured that only.
Indian man (3): Not I, I'm talking discussion. In a discussion it's difficult to convince people of the West, what is to answer to that?
Prabhupāda: But if you know Kṛṣṇa, that He is God, then whatever He speaks, it is all right. Just like Arjuna, he accepted Kṛṣṇa, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). So he said, sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava (BG 10.14). Find out this verse. So "Whatever You say, I accept it as truth." That is understanding of Bhagavad-gītā. If you have understood Bhagavad-gītā, then you should have understood that whatever Kṛṣṇa has said, that is truth. Read that.
Prabhupāda: So this is education. The Western people are not educated in the spiritual life. So our predecessors, our gurus, they are for educating people in the spiritual life. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, five hundred years ago, He advised Indians to go, first of all, make his life..., Indian should make his life perfect, and then he should go outside India and preach the perfectional life, how to become perfect in life. That was His mission. He said pṛthivīte āche yata. You understand Bengali?
Interviewer: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And this order was not only... Because Caitanya Mahāprabhu happened to be a Bengali... He appeared in Nadia district, a district in Bengal. But He does not say the Bengalis; He said the bhāratīs. Bharata-varṣa janma haila yāra. So it is India's mission to become exactly on the line of Bhagavad-gītā. That is also spoken by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that perfection of life means to understand Bhagavad-gītā. He said āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "You just become a guru and deliver this country." "This country" means wherever you are living—it doesn't matter whether in India or America or anywhere else—you just deliver them. So to become guru means to save a person from the conditional life of matter. So long you become a materialistic person, that means you are under condition of material nature. So you have to get your freedom from the laws of material nature. That is your perfect life. But people in the Western countries, they do not know much of this freedom. India knew it, or some of Indians, they know it. But at the present moment they, being conquered or influenced by the Western culture, they are also losing their identity. Therefore my Guru Mahārāja ordered me to do something about the spiritual life in the Western countries. On account of this I came here.
Prabhupāda: No, no, they wanted to compromise with the Westerners. They did not come to teach, but they wanted to be victimized by the Western people. They had no strength to save themselves. They have no strength. They have no determination. Hodgepodge, that's all. Therefore it was not successful. Not a single man became Kṛṣṇa conscious. Even nowadays. Now Vivekananda is famous in India that "He preached in America, all Americans have become Vedantists," something like that. Now, practically, you have gone in Vṛndāvana?
Interviewer: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Recently?
Pṛthu-putra: (translating) "The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is most known under the name of Bhāgavata-Purāṇa. The Sanskrit word Purāṇa means 'ancient, old work.' It is a commentary on the Vedānta-sūtra by Vyasadeva, its author, from which we also learn about the Mahabharata. From a general way, but particularly the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the Purāṇa is a true encyclopedia containing all the aspects of the life of spirit. We have to see that this great work is containing all the predictions, this, of realizing in every detail. Then it is very important to point out that the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam under its poetic form is a very actual by the subject which it's treating about. The truth is one and universal, and the tradition of this work is always valuable. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is an essential development of the Bhagavad-gītā. It's talking about the questions metaphysical, philosophical, religious, psychologic, political and social. The wonderful tradition of Swami Prabhupāda is inspired from the same principles that the one who guided him in his translation of the Bhagavad-gītā. Every Sanskrit verse is written in Latin characters and then a literary version. The commentary, which is referring always from the Veda, Upaniṣad, and other texts, is allowing the reader to make spiritual progress. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is a precious work and will be revealed for a lot of people from the Western. And there is a very urgent need to spread this message throughout the world."
Jayatīrtha: Ah! It's a very good decision.
Bhagavān: Doctor of letters.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Devotees: All glories to Srila Prabhupāda. (break)
Prabhupāda: Western people, they are not only fool but misbehaved. Paścime loka saba mūḍha anārya.
Hari-śauri: And the further West you go, the worse they become.
Prabhupāda: In India, from Bengal you go Western side. They are very filthy. And go more, more, more Western-filthy, filthy, filthy, filthy.
Harikeśa: Pakistan is the worst. Karachi, I heard, is the worst city in the world almost.
Prabhupāda: Śrīmad-bhāgavatam amalam purāṇam.
Prabhupāda: Chanting of the holy name of God is recommended for everyone, both for the mass of people and the class of people. Those who are scholars, philosophers, scientists, religionists and educated may read the English version of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami with particular attention to the purports appended with each and every verse. They have appreciated the publication as follows: 'At a time when not only the people of India but those of the West need the chastening quality of love and truth in a corrupting atmosphere of hate and hypocrisy, a work like this will have uplifting and corrective influence.' What is God? He is truth, He is Love. Even an atheist must accept the supremacy of these qualities, and how much they are needed by the people of the world who have been taught to deny God, and these qualities do not require much emphasis. The author has attempted a tremendous task, the perusal will give us in the sample measure and knowledge of the original. The essence of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the exposition of the Absolute Truth. We would recommend this book. " Then another one...
Prabhupāda: How will that? If you don't like it, how it will go?
Interviewer (4): No, no, my colleague's point is, we have not been accepting, we are not able to understand Bhagavad-gītā on our own. Just because first Western people understand, and because of their...
Prabhupāda: No, no, you have neglected. My charge is that you have neglected. Bhagavad-gītā is there. Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in India. Bhagavad-gītā is there. I think every home has got a Bhagavad-gītā, but if you do not study it, you neglect it, that is your fault.
Interviewer (3): No, that is because it is not part of the educational system.
Prabhupāda: Because you have it. It is the first educational system.
Prabhupāda: They like.
Prabhā Viṣṇu: Oh, very much. People are very impressed. In the Western world people are so much unfavorable towards us. But here in India they treat us like kings. Sometimes when I come to colleges they practically touch my feet and give me all kinds of foodstuffs and drinks. Very nice.
Maṇihāra: Even in the West they are not so favorable, but still everybody has heard of Kṛṣṇa. Everybody's heard of the Hare Kṛṣṇa people.
Mahāṁśa: There's only five first initiations. Those ladies, I told them to wait some more time. Those ladies, I told them to wait for some more time because they were still drinking tea and coffee until yesterday.
Devotee (British): They think once you're dead you're dead and that is the end of it. They don't... They think "We'll enjoy now and we shall die and that's the finish." If you say to somebody, "Have you heard about reincarnation?" "I do not believe in this." Many people in the West cannot accept that the soul will transcend into another body, move on or move down. To them it's fantasy and humbug. This is why they are afraid. They are...
Indian man (3): This is same reincarnation. They think that he has gone. I won't be going, so I'll keep everything with me. We attend so many places where people die and we think, "Oh, he is gone but maybe I am not going to go."
Devotee: The ancient Egyptians used to put all their treasures...
Indian man (3): We don't understand that "All right, this is the end." So why not we understand and think in that line? That day you said that by chanting he thinks that he's chanting, maybe other people don't chant. So they don't know that they have to go. They think they are going to survive here only. They don't want to accept that they have to go, I think.
Prabhupāda: That means they do not want death. That I have...
Prabhupāda: I have seen, I have seen. In our family, I know. That's all. But from my childhood it is my nature, if somebody is preparing, I see it.
Devotee: It seems to me that most people in India can cook something. Even if there's just cāpāṭis they can do this. But people in the West, they now are so helpless. They buy everything it seems in packets and you would not know how to prepare any food as much as just to cut the packet and pour it out and even then they don't even know how to put water into the pan.
Prabhupāda: They do not know how to eat on the whole. India knows how to eat. (Pause) I have traveled all over the world, and this is my experience. Nobody knows how to eat.
Devotee: Nowhere at all, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Haṁsadūta: All the anxiety is how to get some fruit to maintain their body nicely. Very few devotees can actually accept engagement and maintain good health and a good consciousness because the change for Western people for India is so extraordinary that it disturbs their mind, and consequently their body is disturbed and then all they think about is how to maintain their body.
Akṣayānanda: They're used to eating large quantities of food. Here it cannot be done.
Haṁsadūta: And if I ask them... They're used to eating huge amounts of very rich foods.
Prabhupāda: Where?
Haṁsadūta: In the Western temples. They get so many nice foodstuffs which are not available here and when they become sick then they...
Prabhupāda: What rich food?
Prabhupāda: Now that is their income.
Hari-śauri: Yeah, tourism is their big source of income, now.
Prabhupāda: It is always cloudy; people are going to see the West Minister Abbey and Parliament.
Haṁsadūta: The whole tourist industry runs on propaganda.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: When you get there, there is nothing to see.
Prabhupāda: In Parliament they have got old records bound up, almirah. You have seen? What it will do now? Speech of such and such person, speech of... (long pause) What they... Why this water is?
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Hari-śauri: Yeah, and he points out how the people, they generally ask when they see a Westerner, they ask, "Oh, when is darśana at your temple?" And he says that they're actually interested to come to our temple because the standard there is very much acceptable to them. They're attracted to come not because we're Westerners, but because they can see that our standard of worship is as good as or better than their own standards even.
Jagadīśa: There's one other letter from Guṇārṇava. (end)
Prabhupāda: But you must know it. (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: ...makes the way Western civilized people kill, we simply shudder at the very idea. Others, they're not able to, I mean, bear the sight of meat.
Prabhupāda: Our men, those who are not educated, they are better than the... That people may call superstition, but if they are going by the old superstition they would have... I have seen in, sometimes in 1945 or '46, in a train one village girl was sitting and covering. She's young girl, going to her husband's house. What is that? Kane.
Dr. Patel: Gomath, gangath.(?)
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Nature's study gives the... And therefore Bhāgavata gives the example: "Don't work so hard simply for hog civilization." So if we use this word—it is very, very harsh for the Western people—"It is the hog civilization," actually it is so. But you cannot say. Satyaṁ priyaṁ vada... Unless it is palatable, you cannot say straight. That is... They take it seriously that "You are criticizing our mode of life." Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Dr. Patel enters) Aiye, aiye, aiye. (Hindi—"Please come in")
Dr. Patel: You're not going to walk upstairs?
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is not yet six.
Dr. Patel: I did not go for a walk today.
Prabhupāda: Oh. You want to go to Māgha Mela? Er...
Prabhupāda: Grace means he'll willingly give you mercy, and mercy means you ask for mercy. Kṛpa-siddha. Sādhana-siddha and kṛpa-siddha. You are trying to earn one lakh of rupees—that is sādhana. But if somebody is gracious he can give you: "Take one lakh of rupees. Don't work hard." That is grace. That is kṛpa. You are ambitious for one lakh of rupees or somebody graciously give you: "All right, take." There are many persons. So that is grace. Otherwise, you earn by your hard labor. That is sādhana. Similarly, by association, by sādhana-bhakti, you attain perfection, and by grace also, you can attain perfection. Two ways. So those who are kṛpa-siddha, they are more fortunate. (Hindi) Preach this Bhagavad-gītā as it is. People will be benefited. You'll be benefited. Don't make unnecessary interpretation, misguide others and spoil your own life. That is very unfortunate. What is the difficulty to accept Bhagavad-gītā? There is no difficulty. Unfortunately we interpret in different way and take it other way. So our little attempt is to spread Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and whatever it may be, it is being accepted in the Western countries. Not by all. But the people in general, now the... Feeling the weight, they have now began opposing.
Prabhupāda: Why they are envious of us? When we live very nicely, they are envious that "These people do not do anything, and they are living so nicely."
Rāmeśvara: They will not be so envious if they see that people who dress in Western style and keep their families and keep their jobs are also chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: We say... We say that, that we simply say, that "You change your consciousness."
Rāmeśvara: Not change your dress, but change your consciousness.
Prabhupāda: No, we never said. If you prefer that kind of dress, costly, you prefer it, but we are simplified.
Rāmeśvara: It's our choice.
Prabhupāda: This is imagination.
Rāmeśvara: ...like a battery.
Prabhupāda: "Young Frankenstein." Oh, I have seen that picture. (laughter)
Rāmeśvara: But actually people all over the Western world then became convinced that one day science will create life. This popularized the idea.
Prabhupāda: How rascal they have been educated. Mūḍha.
Rāmeśvara: And the only problem was he had the wrong brain.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Prabhupāda: So I shall speak in the evening. (break) Kṛṣṇa has give so many nice preparations. From milk... Therefore cow protection is very essential. (break) Go-rakṣya vāṇijyam. Go-rakṣya. Because from cow's milk we can get all vitamins, protein. That... These people, they are eating the flesh of cow, these Western people. But they do not know how to utilize milk. Now they are learning. We have opened many farms. So when they eat so many varieties of preparations from milk, especially from curd, casein, channa, they are surprised.
Guest (1) (Indian man): She wants to know... You can ask her direct. She wants to know that when she can take the dīkṣā. She is prepared to be abided by the rules.
Prabhupāda: Oh, then it is very nice. You can take tomorrow. Quite.(?)
Guest (1): Tomorrow.
Rāmeśvara: "To estimate the average church attendance in 1976, surveys..." Oh, this just tells you how they took the survey. "So analysis of these figures shows that church attendance is up among all major population groups. The Catholics are better attendees than the Protestants. Women go more often than men." Women go more often than men in America. "Southerners and the Mid-Western"—from the South and the Mid-West—"they attend more frequently than they do in the East, and far more than those living in the West." So this says that people in the West, like California, they're the least religious. People in the East, like New York and Pennsylvania, they're a little more religious, and people in the Mid-West and the South, they're the most religious according to this survey. "Those who are under thirty years of age are less likely to go to church than those who are thirty and over." Younger people... Same trend, giving up...
Prabhupāda: They come to us.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise where is the need of preaching? If you expect everyone is in favor of Kṛṣṇa, then where is the need of pushing on Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Gargamuni: In the West we can discuss philosophy with people. They never try to attack Kṛṣṇa's...
Gurukṛpā: Now they are attacking, because they have gotten your books. (Prabhupāda laughs) Even the Christians, they have read your books. And they are saying, "Well, Kṛṣṇa did this. Kṛṣṇa did that."
Prabhupāda: He must do it because He's God. You do not... You have no conception. You explain that if there is no such things, then wherefrom it has come? God is the origin. In the Bible also it is said, "God said 'Let there be creation.' " So in the creation there are so many things. So therefore everything comes from God. That is Vedānta philosophy. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). So why do you say, "Your God is like this"? God has everything. Otherwise how He's God? There is no meaning of God if He is deficient in something. But you do not know.
Prabhupāda: Take credit as much as you deserve.
Satsvarūpa: The history of civilization in the West is that for centuries people believed whatever the Bible said about existence, and then, when science developed, the Bible did not appear very wise anymore, so they... They overthrew all the dogmatic teachings.
Prabhupāda: They are dogmatic teachings.
Satsvarūpa: So they take us like that too, another religious explanation.
Prabhupāda: No. Our religion is not faith. It is science. That is the fault. Fanaticism of Christianism, Muhammadanism, has created this godlessness. But Vedic knowledge is not that. It is really knowledge.
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Jayapatākā: Envious people just trying to upset. The Western devotees that come, they are amazed that all of the devotees that are here, all the families are living separate from their wives. No temple has achieved that yet.
Prabhupāda: Everything can be done by practice.
Jayapatākā: The hari-nāma is purifying them because they are chanting so many hours. Now, when we give class, they also ask questions.
Prabhupāda: Life is coming.
Jayapatākā: Yes. Taking time. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: That is the fact.
Jayapatākā: You can put the life in the dead man Śrīla Prabhupāda. We were all practically dead but you are putting life in us.
Prabhupāda: I don't think in any other place there are so many activities.
Prabhupāda: ...the words of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Do not forget. What He has said about the Western people?
Hari-śauri: The further West you go, the more demoniac they become.
Prabhupāda: You cannot speak? Paścimera loka saba mūḍha anācāra. Find out this verse, where it is.
Jayapatākā: Western are all are like asses?
Prabhupāda: No, not asses. Yes, mūḍhas. (chuckles) And anācāra, misbehaved.
Jayapatākā: Anācāra, misbehaved.
Prabhupāda: It is wrongly said by...? So you should be convinced that the Western people, they have no brain. Now this is brain-giving movement, para-upakāra. They have no brain, and we have to educate them. Brain there is. The human brain is meant for that purpose. Even one is an ass, dull, he can be educated. That is their facility. Animals cannot be educated, but human being, even he is born like animal... Just like these children. If you don't educate them, they will remain like that, fools and rascals. If you educate, they'll be nice. So they require to cleanse their brain. Why they are...? That we have to prove. This is the opportunity. They should admit honestly that they have no brain. Now this movement is brain-giving movement. Hm? You are Tripurāri. Tripura was the place for the demon, and ari, ari means enemy. You should know very well. The Western people are very much proud of manufacturing very complicated machines. They sometimes report, "We have manufactured this. We have manufactured this." Do they not say?
Prabhupāda: This is the combination of American money and Indian culture. This is the result. In every field of our activities, this will prove wonderful, American money and Indian culture. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. Therefore Kṛṣṇa sent me to America. "Go America." Generally people come to Western country means London. But I never thought of that. I thought, "I shall go to New York," from the very beginning.
Rādhā-vallabha: Īśopaniṣad also. "Over one million copies in print" at the top.
Rāmeśvara: It has new color pictures on the inside, the different selections.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There are no such handsome books anywhere else in the world, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Rāmeśvara: This is called a "teaser." All paperback books in America have this kind of teaser to attract the reader to find out more.
Brahmānanda: It seems now that it's the people from the West who want to hear. Why is that?
Prabhupāda: Now, because they have now experience of the bodily comforts, and they have seen it that "Simply by bodily comfort we cannot be happy." They have come to this stage.
Lokanātha: It's fortune to take birth in the West now. It's fortunate to take birth in America or England? (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Not all. (laughter) Not all. The fortunate, those who are so fortunate, they are now opposing me. The Western people, they are now opposing this movement, so they are not fortunate. So everywhere there are fortunate and unfortunate. But mostly in this age they are unfortunate. Either in the Western countries or in this country, they are unfortunate mostly. They cannot understand. In India at least those who are not very educated, mass of people, they believe transmigration of the soul. They very easily believe it because culture is based on that, pūrva-janma paro janma.
Prabhupāda: We are preaching what Kṛṣṇa says. We do not mind what others says. There may be similarities, there may not be similarities. It doesn't matter. But we are concerned with the instruction that Kṛṣṇa says. I haven't got to tally what Kṛṣṇa says and what you say. I have no business to do that. We are simply concerned what Kṛṣṇa says. Now if you like, you can take it. If you don't like, you take your own. But we are speaking only on Kṛṣṇa. So our lamentable subject matter, subject is that India has got so great exalted knowledge on Bhagavad-gītā, and the government has got Cultural Department, and all leaders, at least they are supposed to give support to Bhagavad-gītā. Why they are not taking seriously and give it to the...? And they are taking it seriously. My single attempt to preach the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā as it is, they are accepting it all over the world. Why not give it an organized way. All the Indian leaders, they are simply imitating jumping like the Western people.
Prabhupāda: Therefore in our Hindu society there is garbhādhāna-saṁskāra, so that everyone knows that "This man is this man's father." That is garbhādhāna-saṁskāra. And especially in brāhmaṇa family, if there is no garbhādhāna-saṁskāra, immediately he becomes a śūdra, because cannot give real identity of the father.
Dr. Sharma: It is most unfortunate that in the West and elsewhere, I have found the people with a great interest and enthusiasm maintain a pedigree chart of the Pomeranian and Alsation dog in their house.
Prabhupāda: This is gotra.
Dr. Sharma: Yes. They maintain a pedigree chart of Alsation dogs and Pomeranian dogs in their houses.
Prabhupāda: Our this gotra...
Prabhupāda: So we are trying to imitate the Western way of life, but it is not possible for us to do that. Our constitution is different, spiritual, and their is material. Now they should be combined. Our government, our people, they want Western way of life, say motorcar. So they can purchase motorcar from foreign countries. What is the wrong there? Why we should waste our energy for manufacturing? Similarly, India should produce agricultural products. They want... Just like England. There is no food, food grain. They have... Everything they have to import. Even vegetables, daily vegetables, they have to import. So United Nation on the basis of spiritual understanding... Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Actually everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, or God, and we are His sons. Kṛṣṇa never claimed that "Indians are My sons." Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya: (BG 14.4) "In every form of life the living entity, their mother is this material nature, and I am the seed-giving father." So on that basis the civilization should be established, and the instruction of Kṛṣṇa should be followed by everyone, and they will be happy. That is the only way.
Prabhupāda: These are the statement in the Bhagavad-gītā. So if we do not try to understand the real purpose of Bhagavad-gītā, and if we theorize, "Bhagavad-gītā means nonviolence. Bhagavad-gītā means to become patriot," these are materialism. We should avoid this wrong interpretation, misguiding direction of blind leaders. We'll not get any benefit out of it. So we are trying to rectify this. That's all. Everything is there. Any question is solved by Kṛṣṇa. Politics, economics, religion, culture, philosophy—everything is discussed very thoroughly. Simply one has to understand. Then he becomes fixed up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. People are generally after yoga, especially the Westerners. I think they have come here for perfection of yoga. But here it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. That is first class, to increase your attachment for Kṛṣṇa. Mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan. This is yoga, how to increase the attachment for Kṛṣṇa. This is called bhakti-yoga. So this yoga can be practiced-mayy āsakta-manāḥ pār..., yogam, mad-āśrayaḥ, not anyone's other's āśraya. Mad-āśrayaḥ. Taking shelter of Kṛṣṇa or taking shelter of Kṛṣṇa's personal person, personal associates, mat-para. Mat-para means one who has dedicated his life for Kṛṣṇa. He is called mat-para. Or directly under Kṛṣṇa. Directly under Kṛṣṇa is difficult. Because we do not understand Kṛṣṇa, therefore we have to take shelter of a person who is already under the shelter of Kṛṣṇa.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, but they will allow Western people to enter Jagannātha temple?
Gaura-govinda: Yes, yes. They have talked with that Anantadeva, but they want money.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They want nirjok sevā or they also want money?
Gaura-govinda: By giving us permission, nirjok sevā, means indirectly they want money. They'll take money. Then they'll give us permission to do nirjok sevā and also, that way, entrance into the Jagannātha temple.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. So how much money?
Gaura-govinda: I talked with that Śyāmasundara and Anantadeva. He said thirty-six groups are there, nirjoks, pāṇḍā groups. And administrator is there. They want something and all groups want something. (whispering) One lakh of rupee.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One lakh of rupees to see Jagannātha. But we can see Jagannātha in any temple in the world. Why do we have to pay one lakh of rupees? Śrīla Prabhupāda? I was saying that we don't have to pay one lakh of rupees to see Lord Jagannātha in Los Angeles.
Prabhupāda: Let them pray to Jagannātha for my cure immediately, or as soon as possible, I shall do that.
Jayapatākā: We were noticing now the headline in America in the Newsweek or some magazine was that America is going right. Now people are protesting against abortion. They are demanding that leaders be moralistic. It is a whole trend now. And so we see that just because Your Divine Grace has begun book distribution and preaching in the West, in America, that now the people, they're becoming more... Qualities of goodness are automatically coming about just because of your preaching.
Devotee (1): At one big fair, Prabhupāda, we were distributing your books, and after the fair was over so many people were coming up. So we surrounded the truck with stacks of books and were passing them out. And pretty soon after all the books were gone the people started rocking the truck. They were surrounding it, asking for one of your books. They were demanding that they have one of your books.
Jayapatākā: The kavirāja has come.
Kavirāja: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi)
| Page Title: | Western people (Conversations 1976 - 1977) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 12 of Nov, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=59, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 59 |