Vote (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"vote" |"voted" |"voter" |"voters" |"votes" |"voting"

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Meeting with Devotees -- June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban:

Hayagrīva: So you want him to be president?

Prabhupāda: I think he should be, like that. You become secretary, and Śyāma dāsī become assistant secretary. Of course, everything should be decided in a meeting, and president may be have as a casting vote, but the decision of the meeting will be actually the decision. Not that president autocracy, no. Or he may be president, you may be vice president and others, Śyāma dāsī, secretary, and treasurer he is. From sampradāya point of view, sannyāsī has to be given the top post. Do you think he will overrule you? (Laughs)

Hayagrīva: Well, I have to make one request on that.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Hayagrīva: That I not stay here.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Of course, so far Vedic culture is concerned, they advocated monarchy because the one man's training, a good king guided by the brahminical culture, although it was autocratic sometimes, but because the king was very cultured there was no possibility of doing any harm to the citizens. But democracy means simply they are given the post by votes, and they may be all rascals. Then what they can think of good to the citizens?

Guest (4): Mahārāja, don't you think that monarchy (unclear)

Prabhupāda: No, that is also not possible. And therefore we are training people to be Kṛṣṇa conscious. And when the Kṛṣṇa conscious people will elect Kṛṣṇa conscious leaders there will be peace and prosperity. And now, because the minority is Kṛṣṇa conscious, they cannot elect Kṛṣṇa conscious leaders and therefore havoc is being played.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: No, why cannot help? If... Monarchy means the king was properly trained up. Similarly, in the democracy, if people are properly trained up, then they will vote for nice men and there will be nice government. Now, because the people are not trained, they are practically asses. The votes of the asses, what has the meaning? If the majority are asses, then one ass will be elected. That's all. So when the executive head is an ass what benefit he can do to the people?

Guest (5): I see.

Guest (4): Mahārāja, you said that you had been misrepresented in that report which appeared yesterday in one of the dailies of the cities.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: The same thing. The parliamentary members... Just like nowadays, party. India is suffering in party politics. And they did not like to give importance to monarchy. They wanted to rule according to their whims, and therefore the whole scheme failed. The so-called democracy under party politics is nonsense. Monarchy... I have said. That day I was in remarking that "This democracy is the government of the asses," because the population are asses and they vote another ass to be head of the government. So what you can do? Sayuddhe kriyate rājan sa kim asnu pahanam. These are instructions in Sanskrit. "If you make a dog a king, don't you think that he will still lap the shoes?" You cannot change his habits. Sva... Yasya bhāvasya na sa sudurate kramaḥ. Anyone's habits, even if you give good position, you cannot change it. The example is just like if you make a dog the king, he will immediately come from the throne and bite the shoes. You see? So materially you cannot change.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: What is the value of vote by asses? According to Vedic civilization, there was democracy but that democracy is selected committee. Just like in England there was Privy Council. So selected body of learned brāhmaṇas and sages, they were guiding the king, and the king himself was properly educated how to rule over, under religious principles. He was trained from the beginning of his life as prince. As the future heir of the throne, he was trained, and at the same time, he was guided by a council of learned sages and brāhmaṇas. They were looking over the activities of the king. As soon as there was some mistake they will see. And there are instances; whenever there was a bad king they were dethroned. Not for political purpose. He was dethroned but his son was on the... Just like Lord Rāmacandra did. Rāmacandra killed Rāvaṇa but He never occupied the kingdom. His brother Vibhīṣaṇa proved to be faithful. He was enthroned. From the same family. And that was the system. Even a king was wrong, he would be dethroned but from his family, either his son or brother, or somebody would occupy there. Not that "Because I have conquered you, therefore I shall sit down." No. There are many instances. And therefore India was ruling all over the world.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Well, if you say like that, the majority of living entities, they are eating without this knowledge of enzyme and other things. So if you take votes the votes are greater. Just like human being, a few human beings are interested in analyzing this enzyme. But the human beings are very small quantity. There are 8,400,000 species of life. They're eating with a natural way and they're quite healthy.

Mensa Member: Knowledge of the process is comparatively important. If you want to enjoy it more you don't have to know about enzymes and proteins, you have to know about the right sort of wine so that...

Śyāmasundara: Enjoyment is the standard.

Dr. Weir: And there, what worries me, I was going a stage further, you do tend to find the people who want to understand about digestion are those whose stomachs are not very good.

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: So intelligent class of men should be engaged in that business. They should not be dragged in other platform. And those who are inclined to take part in politics, administration, that class also should be trained how to rule over the country, how to make satisfied the citizens. They should be trained up, as in business people are trained up. Now the fault is without being trained, simply by votes one becomes prime minister or (indistinct). He has no training how to administer, but simply by vote, he occupies a big post. And that is his qualification. But he does not know how to rule over, how to make the people satisfied. Therefore, chaos. Daily everywhere, government is changing. Daily, weekly, this government, that government, that government. Why? Because they are not trained up how to administer. Therefore, that is required. Tejaḥ. First these administrators must be tejasī, īśvara bhava(?). (Sanskrit) Now there will be fight, and the administers will sit down on the nice couch and the common man will fight. Formerly kṣatriya came first of all. Like Arjuna, he is in the front. The other side, Duryodhana is in the front. So the fighter in that, "Oh, my master is there."

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No. Their policy is that they want to keep the people in that way-rascals and fools—then they'll vote and they'll enjoy the political power. That is their policy. Actually they do not want to see their countrymen elevated good character. They don't want to see. If the people become... Just like the British government in their time, they wanted to give education. Their education means A-B-C-D-half, mediocre, so that the government may be run on. They require clerks, servants, so much, not high education. As soon as there was question of high education, they stopped. And actually it so happened that as soon as the Indian people became highly educated and they learned the history of the world, they kicked them out. So these people, these rascals, Nixon and company, they want to keep the people in ignorance so that they'll get vote and enjoy. If the people become intelligent brāhmaṇas, then immediately he'll be kicked out. What is his value? He has no value. This is policy. They don't want to see that people become elevated in knowledge.

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all. They don't want to see people very enlightened. "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." But at least how to become wise, that injunction has been given to you. Now you try to save the country, how to do it. These people will not be. You'll have to educate the people, and they'll vote you to the senators, president, and then your country will be nice. Just like by Kurukṣetra, Kṛṣṇa smashed all Duryodhana and company, and He posted Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja. That is the Kṛṣṇa's politics. He wanted to smash all these demons and have His own men posted on the royal throne. When Kali could not penetrate into the daily behavior of the people, he planned killing of Parīkṣit Maharaja. So, one Kali brāhmaṇa cursed him to death, for no fault practically. Therefore the brāhmaṇas of this age, they are condemned. The so-called caste brāhmaṇas, they're condemned. That is lamented by the father of the boy who cursed Parīkṣit Maharaja.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: But he's thinking that "I am master of the dog." A family man, he's controlled by his wife, by his children, by his servant, by everyone, but he's thinking, "I am master." President Nixon is thinking that he's master of his country, but he's controlled. At once he can be dismissed by the public, his servant. And he gets that position, placing himself that "I'll give you very good service. I shall be your first-class servant." Therefore people vote, "All right, you become president." And he's advertising, "Re-elect me. Re-elect me." That means he is servant. But he's thinking, "I am master." That is the position. Māyā. One who is controlled by māyā, he's thinking himself master, but he's servant. And a devotee, he'll never think himself, "I am master." "I am servant." That is the difference between māyā and not māyā. He at least knows that "I am never master. I am always servant."

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. That is another foolishness. They will be bribed and they will vote. They will get money, that's all.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Another thing that is coming up is genetic engineering, which they are afraid about, just like they say remember like atomic bomb incident. The politicians will utilize the...

Prabhupāda: So why they discover all these nonsense and waste their time? Why do they not discover something which will stop all problems of life—no death, no disease. Why do they do not know? They are also rascals, combination of rascals. Why do they expend their energy and intelligence for this nonsense purpose? (break) ...which will be reduced.

Jayatīrtha: They want to discover things just for the sake of knowing them, just because everything should be known.

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana:

Pañca-draviḍa: I have experienced that directly in India, Prabhupāda, because I'm working with these merchants all the time, and the government is nationalizing and taking over one industry after another. They took over the control of flour, they took over the control of sugar, they've already got rice, then they took over the exportation of textiles. And I say, "Don't you have anything in your Constitution to prevent this?" They said, "No. We have voted in the government for six years; they can do as they like. The only way is to wait six years and vote them out again. But there is no provision..."

Prabhupāda: The future is not very nice. And government management means no one's servant.

Pañca-draviḍa: No what?

Prabhupāda: No one's servant. Everyone's servant means no one's servant. They are no one's servant.

Pañca-draviḍa: They will never give you anything.

Prabhupāda: Comparatively, life in foreign countries nice. Because I am seeing, from materialistic point of view. In America, you can get anything without any control. Any amount, anything.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So you protest, write in book. You are scientist. Write in book. Prove scientifically. That will be your laurel of taking the doctorate degree. If you also become one of these rascal doctors, then what is the use of your Kṛṣṇa consciousness that whatever they say you silently accept? No. Just become Babhruvāhana, Manipur Babhruvāhana, that the fighting is faced. Take assistance, you have got. Ask Dr. Rao to come, join. Make plan. Go from town to town, all over the world. This has to be done. There was a poetry by Rabindranath Tagore. The purport of the poetry is that one who is mischievous, he is culprit. But one who tolerates mischievous activity, he is also culprit. If you are mischievous, you are criminal. But if you tolerate mischievous activities that is also criminal. Challenge these rascals. Stop their rascal theories. They have been described in the Bhāgavata as śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). Saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. The so-called modern leader, he is a paśu, animal. And who exalts them? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ: other lower animals like dogs, the hogs, śva-viḍ-varāha, camel and ass. So one big animal is being praised by these kinds of animals. So all the population without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they have been described as dogs, hogs, camel and ass. So when they vote for another animal, big animal, so this is their position.

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Prabhupāda: That you don't care for it... The point is you are under nature's law. There must be somebody who is controlling nature's law.

Krishna Tiwari: Yes. It could be.

Śyāmasundara: Unless you think that you have made some by your vote or something.

Krishna Tiwari: No, I never made that. No. That was the difference I was going to tell. If you'll give an example of a government, that is very different from the example of nature.

Devotee (1): Yes. No analogy is perfect. So it's more like the Russian government, let's say. Right?

Room Conversation with Indian Guests and Devotees -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi for some time, a few English words) (break) (Hindi for some time) (break) When the destiny of the people are to be controlled, there must be very, very intelligent man. That is Vedic civilization. There is standard aims and objects on which the people should be trained up. That is varṇāśrama-dharma. Viṣṇur ārādhanam. Worshiping Viṣṇu. This is the ultimate aim. So the whole society is divided into brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa—departmental—and they are trained up. But the aim is viṣṇur ārādhanam. But they have no idea at the present moment. Viṣṇur ārādhanam, he has no knowledge. But the civilization begins on this point. Human being means he's meant for viṣṇur ārādhanam. Otherwise what is the difference between dogs and human beings? The western people, they do not know. They simply think that dog lies down on the floor, on the road... "We have got nice, best apartment. Therefore we are civilized." So that is their defect. They are trying to improve the condition of sleeping, eating. That's all. That is advancement of civilization. But that is not advancement of civilization. Advancement of civilization means to understand Viṣṇu, how to please Him, how to go back to Him, go to the spiritual world. This is advancement of civilization. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). They do not know all these things. Therefore they have been described as śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). All these men are exactly like dogs, hogs, camel and asses. So by their vote, by the votes of dogs, hogs, camel and asses, another big ass, big dog, will be on the government. So what does he know, how to govern? Do you think if you make a dog king, it will be good government. Or a camel king, it will be good government? So it is happening so. The dogs, hogs, camels and asses, they are voting. Another big camel, another big dog is on the governmental head.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And so-called educated, they practically guide. You'll be surprised to know that in 1950, one of my students, he was a government statistics officer. So he went to some village, and he gave me report that the villagers inquired from him that "Babuji, agar angarej ko vote diya yai pasatela (?)"

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You understand Hindi? No.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: No, I don't. No, no, no.

Prabhupāda: No. The inquiry was that "If we again give votes to the Englishmen, will they come and do." (laughs)

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes, yes.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, basis... Now, suppose if a people in general, they are not advanced, by their votes, somebody is elected, he may not be also advanced. That is the defect of democracy. Mass of people, they are not advanced. So simply by their vote, if somebody is elected, then they will have to repent. Just like Nixon. He's elected, but these people are again decrying him, that "No, you are not good." So why do you, did you elect him? You elect, and again you reject. That is the defect of democracy. that people are not advanced. They can commit mistake, elect somebody wrong. And then they will lament. This is the defect. But monarchy, as it was approved by the Vedic culture, the monarchy, if the king is first-class, God conscious... A king should be like that. That is the ideal king. They are described in the Bhagavad-gītā: rājarṣi. The king should be just like saintly person, although he's king. Rājarṣi. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). And just like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira. He was rājarṣi. All the kings in those days, they were trained up in such a way that they were saintly persons, although they were the king. Not debauch. So one person, if he's authorized... Just like the communists, they are thinking of dictatorship. This is also another kind of dictatorship. But if the dictator, or the king, is a perfect man, then his dictatorship or royal power is quite... But that, that is not possible at the present moment.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Lord Brockway: I was speaking; then you arrived. Yes.

Śyāmasundara: And at the end of the discussion, they take a vote: those who are content and those who are not content.

Lord Brockway: That's right. But I often say that when I do not know, what we are discussing, the answers, then I vote with my party. When I do know, then I often vote against my party. Do you understand what I said?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: Maybe you could tell him about that Cāṇakya Paṇḍita.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. I think he'll not like that.

Śyāmasundara: There was one famous politician from India five hundred years ago, or...?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. About three thousand years ago.

Śyāmasundara: Oh, three thousand years ago.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Jesuit Priest: She's an Albanian nun who works in India and is, and has captivated the whole world just by the fantastic work she's done and is doing amongst the down, the outcastes and the desperately poor in the cities of India, particularly in Calcutta. And she's got disciples, young men, young women, joining her, where most of the other religious orders are desperately short. And the youth is being captivated by her, and they can't cope with the numbers wanting to join. And she was given a big speech in the Guild Hall in London and was the first person presented with an enormous sum of money by the Duke of Edinburgh, voted by the World Council of Churches as the outstanding religious person in the world. And people at her speech who heard, it brought the audience to its feet. And all she said in her speech was nothing more except "Love, love, love, love. Just go on giving and look for nothing back," which made an enormous impact, probably the greatest impact that anybody's making at present, in the world at present. (jet going over) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...satisfied to remain in the village. That is the defect of the modern civilization.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Anna Conan Doyle: Exactly, (indistinct) to my eye.

Prabhupāda: Just like nowadays, voting, the man who goes to put his vote, he's marked with a star here. You know that? That means he cannot come again. He cannot represent a false voter. Like that. (break) ...book you are reading now, my books?

Anna Conan Doyle: At the moment, Gītā.

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Very nice.

Anna Conan Doyle: Yes, yes. That is a very complicated book. To read many, many, many times.

Prabhupāda: That is the elementary ABCD. Yes. Here is a statement of my interview with the Vice-president. (break) Just Arjuna, he was a family man. Is it not?

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: And what is the government? Combination of some rascals. You are a rascal. You vote another rascal, and they combine together and become government. That's all. None of them are intelligent. I am rascal. So I must vote another rascal. And all those combination of rascals become government. And they cheat another, the rascals who voted them. That's all. Therefore it is a society of cheater and cheated.

Prajāpati: Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, for letting us walk with you this morning!

Prabhupāda: Eh!

Prajāpati: Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, what is that government? Government is elected by the public. If public is polluted, the government must be polluted. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Public votes somebody, "Take charge of government." So if the public selects somebody nonsense, the government must be nonsense.

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes. In other words, to tell the public that "You should elect God-conscious leaders to have a better society."

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That is our propaganda, that "This is the standard of leadership. So if you elect first-class leader, then your government will be first-class. But if you elect some rogues and thieves, drunkards, then how you can expect good government?" This is natural. After all, democracy means the public elect. The public does not know how to distinguish the rogues and thieves. Therefore the rogues and thieves take the advantage of it and, somehow or other, and take vote and sit on the presidential chair. That is difficulty. Just like our propaganda is... We are not making any propaganda in the beginning, that "Stop this cow slaughter." We are educating people, "Don't eat meat." If people become educated, automatically the slaughterhouse will be closed. This is our propaganda. "Don't drink." So if people give up drinking, automatically the drinking business will be closed.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, do it. Do it.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (Prabhupāda gets in the car)

Prabhupāda: If you can educate the people. "Don't vote for the rascals. Just try to understand who is the real man, who is the real leader."

Hṛdayānanda: So political program is very important.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If public is educated to select right type of leader, then automatically... And it is very easy thing that "Leader must be faithful. A leader must know what is God and how to trust in Him. And he must be free from all sinful activities. The pillars of sinful activities are these." This is our propaganda. (end)

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That means western people are all demons.

Umāpati: So the problem is trying to get into office under those circumstances, to make that known that "We stand for this," and to have anybody vote for you.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Nobody may vote but we must go on preaching. That I have already explained, some of the university. The whole country is illiterate. Does it mean university should be stopped? University must be there. One who is fortunate will come and take education. It is not an argument that "People are illiterate. They don't care for it. Therefore let the university be closed." This is no argument.

Yaśomatīnandana: Gradually they will develop attraction.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we have to work. That is preaching. You don't think preaching is so easy going. Eating, sleeping, and sometimes chanting, "Haribol," that's all. That is not preaching. We must be ready to implant Kṛṣṇa consciousness ideas, throughout the whole world.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So, "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." That is already there. So we have to act by the order of Kṛṣṇa, not by the votes of the madmen. Just see the fun. Everyone is under control. Who is free? It is simply illusion. They are thinking, "I am free." Nobody is free. Under the stringent laws of nature, and still, he is thinking, "I don't care for God." This is madness. This is madness. Already under the laws of God, but still, he's protesting, "No, I don't care for God. There is no God." So we have to save these madmen from further deterioration. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Umāpati: Can a living entity ever lose his existence?

Prabhupāda: What you have studied in the Bhagavad-gītā?

Umāpati: Well I have never seen that it's possible.

Prabhupāda: No, what is your understanding from Bhagavad-gītā?

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But prayer, without these things, background, there is no value of prayer.

Umāpati: Yet there are a lot of people who would vote for us on sentiment at least, that at least we are for prayer in schools.

Prabhupāda: Then it is all right. Prayer, to advise people to offer prayer is not bad, but unless one is purified, that will not stay. But prayer, they are still going to church, but still, the churches are being closed.

Umāpati: Still, that could be influenced in the right direction afterward.

Prabhupāda: Well, influenced, to a certain extent. But as soon as you say, "prayer to God," they will laugh, "What is this God and prayer?"

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: They are rascals.

Prabhupāda: But who is accepting they are? They are still getting votes.

Dr. Patel: They'll not get vote now. That Dundubhi said they'll not get. Dundubhi... No, they will not.

Dr. Patel: (Hindi) The people have so much opposed them now, the present government, I think there will be right government next election. The election itself is a sort of great, I mean, mockery committed on the people.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That I always said.

Dr. Patel: It's a demagogy.

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That I always said.

Dr. Patel: It's a demagogy.

Prabhupāda: Then... (Hindi) The votes given by some...

Dr. Patel: Ignorant people.

Prabhupāda: ...ignorant people. What is the value?

Dr. Patel: You see, if you go in the assembly...

Prabhupāda: Formerly a king was elected by great sages, saintly persons, brāhmaṇas. King was elected. And as soon as he deviated from the śāstric principles, he was kicked out.

Dr. Patel: That is right. But we don't want to follow that (indistinct) rāma-rājya.

Prabhupāda: Then suffer! Then suffer! If your patient does not follow your instruction, he must suffer.

Dr. Patel: He will die.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Just like they have legalized the prostitution.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anything... Because it is vote. Majority wants. "All right. Make it legalized."

Dr. Patel: All, they have...

Prabhupāda: Same thing here even. Majority wants to be godless. So government is following that. Therefore they are against our movement. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Jaya. Namaskāra. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Now the vox populi. Majority wants to become drunkards. "All right, it is legalized." Majority wants prostitute hunters. "All right. It is legalized." This is government. No consideration of morality or religion. Majority wants, it must be given.

Dr. Patel: No, but, I mean, it is all... It must fall. There is no culture. This is a total degeneration of the humanity at large.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They must suffer. And they're suffering. Still, they're blind.

Morning Walk -- March 29, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Na ācāraḥ. Personally they also do not do anything, ah? They're addict, they addict to drinking, addict to prostitution, and they, by votes, they become leaders. So how people will be happy? Asura-jana. They live by asura-jana. This is the whole chapter of Bhagavad-gītā. They, they are making their plan. What is their plan-making? Idam adya mayā labdham imaṁ prāpsye manoratham. This is the only plan. "Now I have got this bank balance, and tomorrow further increase, and tomorrow increase." Increase, increase, his life decreased, and kicked out of this...

Indian man (2): That plan becomes out of date next year.

Prabhupāda: Ah? (laughs) Yes. That "He's my enemy, he's my friend. I'll kill so many enemies. Now one enemy is still there... Who is richer than me? Who is wiser than me?" These are the plans of the asura-jana.

Indian man (3): (Sanskrit) Sadṛśo māyā.

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: (Hindi) ...he worships like anything. Then he... We have an assembly, and they passed by majority vote that I should refrain from coming here, but I somehow or other came.

Prabhupāda: But I saw and offer my obeisances to your motorcar. (laughter) I was thinking that "Dr. Patel's representative, the car is here."

Dr. Patel: (Hindi) Because we are trained to all the accredited saints of India, to whatever opinion...

Prabhupāda: Our business is to point out who is not a saint.

Dr. Patel: But don't point us out. We want the tree to be a saint.

Prabhupāda: That is our business. Preacher must be. (Hindi) (break) ...can I speak something? Because their position is to take Ramakrishna as a saintly person. Saintly person there may be. Just like Rāvaṇa. He also underwent severe penances, but just to fulfill his personal desire, or Rāvaṇa was so devotee of Lord Śiva that he was cutting his head and offering to the Deity. Is it? You know, everyone?

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...purpose of life. But they do not know what is the purpose of life. They have taken the idea of cats and dogs, simply sense gratification. Now, where, how there will be good government. (break) ...all leniency to the Mohammedans to get vote. That's a fact. (break) Mahābhārata, anywhere, or Rāmāyaṇa, you'll never find a woman is elected on the topmost post.

Dr. Patel: And that was widow.

Prabhupāda: No, woman is never, was made a king. That was... Now it has become a fashion.

Dr. Patel: And the widow with all her virtues.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...days greatest politician. Viśvāso naiva kartavyaḥ strīṣu rāja-kuleṣu ca. So our present head of the state is both woman and diplomat. That's all. (break)

Morning Walk -- April 24, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes, he's speaking very nicely. He's fit for that position. Similarly our, what is his name?

Satsvarūpa: Balavanta.

Prabhupāda: Balavanta. He's also very nice. If we get some important votes in the government, then our mission will be successful. This, our philosophy is being properly ventilated, it is coming in the papers, isn't it? On account of this political leadership. And I see that his statements are published profusely. Not with other contemporaries. And what they'll speak? They have no sense, they have no leadership idea.

Satsvarūpa: Some devotees express the fear that after some time all these bogus groups, they will start running political men, too, and then the field may be ruined, that...

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: They had... At first they had little chocolate and they rationed it out that "You get a little bit of chocolate," and little bit of liquid they had. And so they rationed it out until that was finished. Then they took a vote amongst themselves. "Well, what shall we do? Shall we eat human flesh or shall we simply starve to death?" So they voted amongst themselves that "Yes, we should do this." There were some men, one or two, that would not do it and they died. They refused to do it, and they died. Others, they did.

Yogeśvara: They made some... Afterwards they had to... There was some discussion, some philosophy. They were actually discussing. And there was one person there who was explaining to the others that "We must eat this flesh to stay alive but it's not so wrong since the soul has left the body." He said, "The spirit has left these bodies, so you shouldn't consider it to be quite so bad. We're obliged to do this."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is not unreasonable. It was a question of selection. Otherwise, to subsist, to eat the dead bodies, flesh, that is not very abominable. That can be accepted. But it is the selection whether one will eat. That is another thing. Otherwise dead body's flesh is as good as anything else because it is matter.

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Bhagavān: Or like the politicians, they are afraid to speak because they are afraid that they will be voted out or get no more money to support their...

Prabhupāda: Yes. They're after money. So they are less than śūdras. That is the cause that Christianity has fallen down, that they cannot speak straightly, or otherwise... It is straight commandment, "Thou shalt not kill." And because people are killing, they're... Now they are give man-to-man marriage, what to speak of other things. The priests, they are sermonizing this man-to-man marriage. Just see how degraded they have become. Whether any conception... At least, outside America, nobody knows that a man can be married with another man. What is this? And they're supporting it. You know that?

Bhagavān: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So what is their standard?

Room Conversation with Monsieur Mesman, Chief of Law House of Paris -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: At the present moment, the people in general, they are engaged in service, in factories, in big, big office, big, big establishment. So they're all śūdras, fourth-class men. And the fourth-class men select their representative. So they must be also fourth-class. Democracy means selected, I mean to..., voted, elected. So because they are being elected by the fourth-class men, the leaders are also fourth-class men. The fourth-class men cannot appreciate the first-class men. And there is lacking of second-class men. So the result is that at the present moment, the whole world is being managed by the fourth-class men. Therefore, there are so many anomalies.

Pṛthu-putra: He says this concept is against the...

Yogeśvara: "Traditional western capitalism..."

Room Conversation -- August 12, 1975, Paris (with French translator):

Prabhupāda: So we have no responsibility. It is false, māyā. Our only responsibility is how to become obedient servant of Kṛṣṇa. So that is only responsibility, one responsibility. Just like the political parties, they are advertising, different political party, "I am your friend. Give me vote." How he can be friend? Just like in America, the Nixon took vote, he was advertising "America requires Nixon." I have seen that advertised when he was being elected. But after some time, the people found that he is not required, "Get out." So nobody can become, because everyone is imperfect. How one can become friend or responsible for another person? Just like in your country, in Europe and America, so many hippies are there. Their parents are responsible, rich men, able men, but why they have become hippies? Is it not a fact? The father does not want that his son should become a hippie, but still he is becoming hippie. Where is his responsibility? You cannot give protection to your son. In spite of your desire, you are disappointed. So where is your responsibility? Who can answer? Where is your responsibility? You don't really like that your son should become a hippie, but you cannot protect him.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1975, London:

Devotee (2): Even if we present a Kṛṣṇa conscious candidate, the people will still choose a rogue to lead them, even if we present a candidate who is Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: Canada we have got already temples.

Brahmānanda: Candidate, someone to stand for the election.

Prabhupāda: You cannot do anything. Unless you turn the mass of people Kṛṣṇa conscious, what you will do there? Suppose one man is elected. All demons. What he will do there? Therefore the first thing is that turn the people Kṛṣṇa conscious, and when they will vote, that is shortened (certain?) Otherwise, it is waste of time. (end)

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: The Bhagavad-gītā is read all over the world. So we can better talk on the principles of Bhagavad-gītā. Our philosophy is we present Bhagavad-gītā as it is, without malinterpretation. So we want to defy everyone who is malinterpreting Bhagavad-gītā. So we have to follow the authorities. And Bhagavad-gītā is accepted as authority. Otherwise, why they're reading so widely all over the world Bhagavad-gītā? Why not come on this term? Why you catch up so many literature? If, on this basis, there is a conference, that will be profitable, that "If you accept Bhagavad-gītā as authority or one of the authorities, so you cannot misinterpret the statement in the Bhagavad-gītā." But the Westerners, they are very expert in misinterpreting even their own Bible. We say that if you interpret any śāstra, either Bible or Bhagavad-gītā, then it is no more śāstra. It is your play toy. By so-called your rascal vote, without any reason and rhythm and rhyme, you can do everything.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They sometimes say that because Bhagavad-gītā was originally in the Sanskrit language...

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...mediately manage. "Stop all these worker illicit sex, intoxication, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." The whole atmosphere will change. The production will be increased. There will be no dissatisfaction among the worker and the capitalists. Immediately everything will be solved. Now the competition is going on that the capitalist is exacting as much money from their labor, and he is spending it for wine and women, and the worker is seeing that "Our money, he's spending. Why not ourself? So let us form a communist party. Let us fight." This is going on. But they do not know how to spend money, śūdras. When a śūdra gets money, he'll spend for wine and women. That's all. He does not know that it should be spent for Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Nalinī-kānta: So intoxication, illicit sex, we will make that illegal.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is illegal, but because they are rogues and rascals, they are doing all these illegal things. And because it is democracy, when the majority are acting illegally, it becomes legal. This is democracy. They cannot avoid it. They want to do the same thing by voting "There is no God." So there is no God. Bas. Finish.

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes. The justice, they are taking bribe, giving judgment.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes, yes. Policemen. Also the politicians in America, sometimes they win their elections by giving bribes.

Prabhupāda: To the voters.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly.

Amogha: Everyone is cheating, but when they find out that the leaders are cheating, everyone becomes upset.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Vox populi. You know this word?

Śrutakīrti: Yeah, Latin.

Prabhupāda: Latin, yes. People's vote. The people may be asses, but still, their votes will be taken, the vox populi. The fourth-class, fifth-class men, and they are giving vote. And the mistake is detected. Just like this Nixon was voted and the mistake was detected. But still, they follow the same process, vox populi. What is the value of the votes of the fourth-class, fifth-class men? Better one intelligent man, if he knows things, if he is liberated, if he says, "This is right," that should be taken. That is Vedic civilization. We are accepting Kṛṣṇa. We are not accepting the vox populi. One person, the Supreme, that's all. This is our process. We don't accept vox populi. All these Vedic literature are accepted not on the people's vote, but who is presenting? Vyāsadeva is presenting, Kṛṣṇa is presenting. Parāśara Muni is presenting. Therefore they are accepted. You cannot expect the mass of people very intelligent. That is not possible. So what is the value of their votes if they are not intelligent?

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: People call, that is another thing. That is the defect of the modern civilization, that vox populi. The people may be asses; still, their votes are accepted. The people are trained up as the fourth-class, fifth-class men, and their votes are appre... This is the defect of the modern... They are not trained up as first-class men, and still, their votes are accepted. Therefore, even a very advanced country, America, there was mistake, Nixon. They elected him president. Then they dragged him down. That is the mistake. Yes.

Dr. Copeland: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: They did not elect a first-class man, and later on, they could understand. So everywhere it is going on. Vox populi, the people, are less intelligent. They do not know whom to vote. And besides that, votes can be purchased. They do purchase by paying according to the country. So what is the value of this vote?

Dr. Copeland: Um, when...

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Now, what is your opinion? A third-class, fourth-class man, if they vote, do you think it has any meaning?

Dr. Copeland: Well, I don't define the people first, second, third, and fourth class like you do, obviously.

Prabhupāda: You don't find? You don't find first person...?

Dr. Copeland: Well, I'm not as willing to judge other people. I'm not willing to say whether you're first, second, or third class, just as I'm not willing to say...

Prabhupāda: No. At least, you are educationist, you are professor. According to the modern society, you are one of the first-class men. Do you think your position and the lower class man, the same?

Dr. Copeland: I think everybody has the same amount of intelligence and ability. It's just that some of them get more breaks than others.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Everyone has got the potency, but unless he shows his intelligence, he has no value.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So those who have no chance to become first-class men, their vote, what is the value?

Dr. Copeland: Ācchā. When you were coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness...

Prabhupāda: According to our Vedic civilization, first-class men's vote required, who knows things as they are. One who does not know things as they are, what is the use of taking vote from him? Our Vedic civilization, the brāhmaṇas, first-class men... The qualification of brāhmaṇa, find out. Śamo damaḥ satyaṁ śaucaṁ titikṣā ārjavam, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma... Read.

Amogha:

śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ

kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca

jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ

brahma-karma svabhāva-jam

(BG 18.42)

"Translation: Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness—these are the qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work."

Prabhupāda: This is first-class man.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: How... I can reply that if you want to know who is your father, then you will have to take the knowledge from many sources, by votes, that who is your father?

Dr. Copeland: (laughing) It's not the same thing.

Prabhupāda: Now he says, "not the same." You cannot offer reason. You have to take from one source, from the mother. That's all. You cannot take votes, "Can you say who is my father?" He will say this... He'll say, "He is your father." No, it is not the way. The way is to take the information from the right source, not take the votes of rascals and fools. That is not the way. One source. Even from scientific point of view, mathematics, "two plus two equal to four," you have to take from one source. Any mathematician will say like that. Nobody will say, "No, two plus two equal to five." "No, two plus two equal to three." Nobody will say. "Two plus two equal to four," everyone will say. This is not the way of securing knowledge, from here, there... Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not approve. And our Kṛṣṇa, He said, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). That is the recommendation. And because that source is now missing, therefore it is lost. This process of knowledge, that we take knowledge from anyone and everyone, his opinion, what is that?

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Director: Yeah, well you're right. But in our society, minister is elected to carry out certain policies—not what he wants but what the people have voted. And they are taxed to support this.

Prabhupāda: If your policy is social reformation...

Director: Social reform is not our policy.

Prabhupāda: Then, social welfare.

Director: Just to look after those who are in trouble.

Prabhupāda: Well, everyone is in trouble. At the present moment even the ministers are in trouble.

Director: Yes, but that is not what our function is. Everybody's in trouble. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Physician, heal thyself. You see? They are also drunkards, they are also woman-hunters, meat-eaters, and gambling, that's all. They require to be rectified.

Director: But you can't help that. You have to go and change society, then society tells us to act differently.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Tiny percentage. Just like there are so many stars in the sky, and there is one moon. In percentage the moon is nothing. If we take percentage of the stars, the moon is nothing. But moon is important than all the nonsense stars. (laughter) But if you take percentage, he has no percentage vote. But because he is moon, he is important than all these rascal stars. This is the example. What is the use of taking percentage of the stars in the presence of moon? Let there be one moon, that is sufficient. There is no question of percentage. One ideal man. Just like in Christian world, one ideal Lord Jesus Christ.

Director: How do you feel about Mao Tse-tung?

Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that?

Devotee: He says how do you feel about Mao Tse-tung?

Director: In China he's the ideal man.

Devotee: He's a Communist.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Any, anyone. That is the position. For treatment we go to a physician, and the physician prescribes medicine, you reject it. So how you will be cured? That is the position. When the prescription is given you want to put it in the votes of other patients. What the patient will know about the prescription? They are patients. There is no question of...

Director: If I would come here and want to join your movement I would accept it.

Prabhupāda: No, you join or not join, you have come here to consult us if we can help your activities. But when we prescribe, you do not accept it. That is your position.

Devotee: He has to go now, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Give him prasāda, just... So, to, actually to make the whole human society happy, this God consciousness movement must spread.

Director: Well, I'll certainly report back. Thank you very much for seeing me.

Prabhupāda: Just little wait.

Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes, then "well" means they want to save themself from death. That means they want not to die. But death is there. Then where is the solution of problem? But they have no brain to think that "What these rascals will do? My problem is there. It is not solved." And still they accept. Therefore in the Bhāgavata it is said, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). They are eulogized, they are praised, glorified, by another animal. He is an animal, big animal, and a small animal says, "Oh, you are our leader." The big animal is praised by the small animal. Both of them are animals. None of them are human being. So this is going on. A big animal bluffs him that "I have done so much for you. You give me vote." That's all. And the small animal thinks, "Yes, he has done so much. Give him vote." This is going on. Andhā yathāndhaiḥ. Everything is discussed in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that one blind man is leading other blind men. What is the use?

Hm? If I am blind man, if I say, "Come behind me. I shall take to St. Kilda," and as soon as I go in the road, you are killed, I am killed, that's all. That is going on.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Power. He must have power, influence. Why he should beg vote, "Give me vote, give me vote, give me vote," begging? Where is power? If he is begging vote, where is power? Formerly the kings... Just like they used to take sword. "If you don't accept me, then I shall kill you." This is power. Śauryaṁ tejam...

Devotee: Dhṛtir, determination.

Prabhupāda: Determination, and yuddhe ca apalāyanam. Now when there is war, these politician will remain in their room safely. They will not go to the war. And why these people are voted for political post? Formerly the king would first of all stand. To the other side also, the king is there and this side also. The fight is going on. If the king is killed, then the victory is there. Yuddhe ca apalāyanam. The formula is there. So these classes of man should be on the administration, not anyone coward, nonsense, and by hook and crook they get some vote and take the political leader... How you will find peace? The fourth class is required. Just like in your body you have got brain, brain is required. Then hand. Whenever there is some attack, consciously, unconsciously, I forward my hand. So the division is already there. If you come to attack me with a knife, I don't push my head. I push my hand. So when there is attack, the brāhmaṇas are not expected to go forward; the kṣatriyas. So this is training.

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That kicking out will convince them. Otherwise, they will not be convinced. So long they are in the post, they will never be convinced. But when they are kicked out, when they are street dog, then they will be... (break) Otherwise, you can pass resolution, the senators. When the senators come for vote, you tell them, "First of all dismiss all these things. Then we shall give you vote. Otherwise no more vote." Then they will be also. And vote has become cheap. Saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. That example I was giving, that small animals and big animal. The lion is a big animal, and he is afraid of by the small animals, jackals, cats and dogs. So out of fear, they are giving vote. But giving vote to whom? To an animal. So how they can be happy? A small animal is giving vote to the big animal. But suppose a big animal, a lion, he is very powerful.

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So the small animals may be afraid of that big animal, but the human being knows that he is animal. That's all. He doesn't care for this animal. The animal may be very strong, but that does not mean he will be given any credit of human being. No. That is not possible. So in this animal civilization there are many strong, big animals. So they are voted by the small animals, but we are not going to vote that he is very important figure. No. We immediately reject. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā (SB 5.18.12). "One who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is useless." That's all. We are not going to echo the small animals. That is not possible. We reject, "Oh, he is animal." That's all. So our test is whether one is Kṛṣṇa conscious. You can say that "If you are not a big animal, that does not mean that you are a big man." That is... We admit. But we have got our Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "Here is a rascal." And so we say, "Here is a rascal." That's all.

Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Everything is passed by popular vote. But that is also defective.

Brahmānanda: You brought that out nicely by giving the example of Nixon. He received the largest popular vote of any president in the history, and he was also then pulled down.

Prabhupāda: Indira Gandhi also. She got the largest number of vote...

Brahmānanda: Even more than her father she received.

Prabhupāda: So what is the value of these votes? If, by vote, if you select a wrong man and again you try to drag him down, then what is the use of this popular vote? Even in Communist country, the, what is called, Krushchev? He was the head. Now nobody knows where he is.

Brahmānanda: Stalin also. He was...

Prabhupāda: Stalin died.

Room Conversation with City Counselor -- July 10, 1975, Chicago:

Śrī Govinda: We have spoken very sincerely to the other aldermen and Mr. Winfield practically is the only one who has responded.

Prabhupāda: So public vote. Elect Nixon and then drag him down. This is public opinion. Sometimes make him president, sometimes drag him down. So what is the value of these votes?

City Counselor: Well, I can certainly pledge that wherever I find and can identify prejudices...

Prabhupāda: If they become unreasonable, whimsical, then who can defend? There is no such law that one should have a particular dress in their church or temple. There is no such law. But they are insisting about the dress. What is this?

City Counselor: Again, I will pledge that whenever I can expose such prejudices on the parts of my fellow aldermen, I will do it.

Prabhupāda: No, that is very kind of you, but if they are persistent on majority vote, then you are nowhere. So the majority, if they want whimsically to do something, you cannot check.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Yes, if you train people to become God conscious, then naturally president will come, God conscious. If you train people like hogs and dogs, then the president will be hogs and dogs because it is democracy. (laughter) Therefore we have taken the task to train people how to become godly. Then naturally the president will come godly. If people decide that "We shall not cast our vote to any man who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious," then the Kṛṣṇa conscious man will come. But people are not trained up. They are fools, so they elect another fool, big fool. That's all. How you can be happy? Just like in the forest the small animals like cats and dogs and asses, they are very much afraid of the lion, tiger. And they accept lion as the king of forest. But he may be lion or tiger and elected by asses and cats and dogs, but he is nothing but animal. Will any human being accept the lion as human being? No. He knows that he is an animal. Maybe he is voted by the small animals.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: They did not take part in politics, but they recommended that "This man should..." Just like Kṛṣṇa. He wanted Yudhiṣṭhira must be the king. Because king is supposed to be God's representative, how to rule over, not that these cats and dogs will find out a lion and vote him to the chair. That is not the process. Your modern process is that the electors, they are not trained up, and they elect another big animal to become the president. Therefore it is failure. All over the world this is going on. This so-called democracy... Unless people are very much trained up, the election by the mass is not very good. Rather, a first-class men, they should nominate that "This man should be president." That will be nice. Your question was "How to find out president, good"? So this is the process. So there is no intelligent class of man. That is the difficulty. Who is trying to control his mind, control his senses? This is the first condition to become a first-class man. As soon as a man sees a beautiful woman, immediately his mind is agitated. Where is the control? And as soon as the mind is agitated, the senses are agitated. And this is the first condition of the first-class man, that he should not be agitated in his mind, and agitated by senses. This is the first condition. So where is that school who is training to, how to control the mind, how to control the senses, how to become truthful, how to become cleansed, internally, externally. These are the signs of first-class men. So we are trying our little bit to make some men as first class. This is our teeny effort. We are not patronized by any interested person, neither by the government.

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...can be solved by understanding these three items: God is the proprietor; He is the enjoyer; He is friend of everyone. They are acting just the opposite way: "I am the proprietor; I am the enjoyer; I am the friend. Because I am God." This is their... Everyone is becoming friend—ultimately proves to be enemy of the country because he is not friend. President Nixon took votes by pretending friendship, and later on, he proved enemy. This is going on. Everyone knows. Gandhi pretended to become friend, but he proved to become an enemy. Otherwise why he was shot down? Unless one thought him as enemy, why he was shot down? This is going on. Nobody can become friend except Kṛṣṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But a pure devotee is a friend to all.

Prabhupāda: Because he carries the message of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is friend, and he is carrying the friendly message. Therefore he is friend. If there is a nice friend and if somebody gives information of that nice friend, he is also friend. Therefore nobody can become friend except Kṛṣṇa's representative. The material world is: "I am your enemy, and you are my enemy." This is the whole construction of the material world. So how the enemy can become friend? It is pretension, cheating.

Press Conference at Airport -- July 28, 1975, Dallas:

Prabhupāda: Well, we are not very much concerned with political situation. But our proposition is—either political, social, economical or philosophical, anything—without Kṛṣṇa, it is all zero. So far Mrs. Gandhi is concerned, she is inclined to some spiritual understanding. So actually if she becomes very advanced spiritually, then this emergency situation will improve. Otherwise... and it is the public opinion against democracy. So democracy is not very much beneficial anywhere and everywhere. In your country also, you voted Mr. Nixon, democracy, but you were not satisfied with him. That means democracy, ordinary men they select somebody and again they try to bring him down. Why? When he was selected, it means it was a mistake. So according to Vedic civilization, there was no such thing as democracy. It was monarchy, but the monarchy means the king was very highly spiritually advanced.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Demigods... Yes. Just like one who is trying to get some good service. So they are worshiping this boss, that boss. That is also demigod, because without flattering some boss he cannot get some good job; without flattering the voters he cannot get the ministership. That is demigod worship. They have to flatter somebody. Why this Ram Gulab has gone to...? He has to flatter there. This is going on. The big bosses in the United Nation, they are demigods, supposed to be. He thinks, "If I flatter them, then I will be able to keep my position." But he does not think that this position will be lost after some years. Tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām. He has forgotten his eternal life, Kṛṣṇa, and he is flattering these demigods. That's all. What he will gain? He will die. That's all. At the time of death what these United Nation leaders will do?

Morning Walk -- October 6, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Civilization... If you remain in a dog's position, is that civilization? I proved that you are in a dog's position. How can you refute the argument which I have put, that you are in a dog's position? Exactly the dog. Śva-viḍ-varaha. Dog's position, hog's position, camel's position, and ass's position. These four animals have been compared. Śva, viḍ-varāha, uṣṭra, khara. And "I have been given vote." Yes, śva-vi-varāhoṣṭra-kharai saṁstuta puruṣa paśuḥ. You are animal, and other animals, they are giving you vote. That's all. You are very much proud that you are minister, you have got vote, but who has given you vote? The same animal class. What is the meaning of your vote? Śva-viḍ... How selected words in the Bhāgavatam. Śva-vi-varāhoṣṭra-kharai saṁstuta puruṣa paśuḥ.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This desire to accumulate money, is this just like annamaya stage?

Prabhupāda: That is doggish. The example, he has got already one loaf, but another dog: "This is also my stock." Why you should hanker after another? You have got already. Be satisfied. "No." That is doggish mentality.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: First of all you see the government, what is government? Government means a pack of rascals and fools. That's all. This is modern government. All these thieves and rogues are voted to be government men. So how you expect good government? It is not possible. "People's government." All people are rascals. That means government rascal. People's government.

Harikeśa: How would the other necessities of life be taken care of, like medical things? If actually they have no knowledge, and they have to require to build these gigantic hospitals...

Prabhupāda: The brāhmaṇas, the brāhmaṇas will give you medical help. Āyur-Veda. They will read Āyur-Veda. They will give help.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: (break)...they have to manage, and the vaiśyas will produce, and brāhmaṇa will give the brain. Then the society will be peace... And at the present moment these śūdras, they are, by artificial votes, they are becoming the brain of the society. How it can be happy? The rascals, they are voted to the legislative assembly, and they are passing every day law which is never perfect. This is going on.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Stopgap measures.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They create problem, then they try to solve it.

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Morning Walk -- October 17, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Because the democracy. You will not get vote. As soon as you become honest man in the public office, nobody will be obedient to you, and it will be impossible for him to execute any... You see? The bank manager in Delhi—he was my friend—that "I am afraid of this union. If I press them to do something, they will immediately topsy-turvy the whole management." Bank manager said. "So I am afraid of the workers' union," he told me. So therefore good men, they do not go to this political post because they know they will not be able to do anything good. He will be surrounded by all rogues. Nobody will execute his order.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So the future in Kali-yuga looks very bleak.

Prabhupāda: Very, very black. Āchinna-dāra-draviṇ gacchanti giri-kānanam. People, general people, will be so much disgusted that they will be obliged to give up family and home and go to the forest, being disappointed: "Now I cannot manage. Let me go away."

Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Still the Indians have no equal right.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They are not allowed to vote here even, or have any representatives in Parliament.

Indian man (1): No, nothing whatsoever. They are grouped up. Especially now within these couple of years. Before there was living in town and all that, but now they are grouped up in their own areas, not supposed to live in town anymore.

Prabhupāda: The Indians are driven away.

Indian man (1): But there is a change at the moment. We are getting indirect representation in Parliament, and most probably in a matter of twenty, thirty years... (laughter) Promises.

Devotee (4): Sounds like the scientists.

Indian man (1): Live on a promise.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: If you're still alive then.

Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: (break) Yes. In the whole world you won't find qualified brāhmaṇas. And they are required for guiding the human society. So therefore the human society is in chaotic condition. There is no guidance. The śūdras, they make things by vote. And what they'll vote? They're all rascals. What is the value of their votes? So that is going on all over the world. Fools and rascals they vote, and another rascal is selected. And after some time—"Oh, he is not suitable. Get him down," Nixon, and replace another fool, rascal. That's all.

Indian man (1): That is continuously going on.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Going on. The democracy means the selector, the elector, they are all fools and rascals. So how he will select a person who is not rascal?

Indian man (1): Is it possible that every man's life is directed by God, and you're born to do certain things, and you come to be prime minister or something?

Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is something like that. But I am talking of, if you depend on God, then why do you keep elections? You are opportunist. Sometimes you take shelter of God and sometimes of your election power. If you are so firm believer in God, then why election? Let God elect. Why you take part in election? Huh? Let God elect the prime minister. Why you are busy in giving vote? (break) God elected Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira. Hm? His plan was that Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira should be king, not Duryodhana. So He killed all the Duryodhana's party and selected Yudhiṣṭhira: "Sit down here." That is God's election. So why you elect? Depend on God.

Indian man (1): And that comes through lack of spiritual knowledge, Swamiji?

Prabhupāda: Yes, no knowledge. No spiritual knowledge means he is animal. That's all. Sa eva gokharaḥ. This is the final verdict. One who has no spiritual knowledge, he is no better than these cows and dogs. That's all. Therefore guidance of the brāhmaṇa required. Why the brāhmaṇas are selected to guide? Because they have got full vijñāna, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam, therefore.

Morning Walk -- October 21, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Less intelligent. No intelligence. Therefore I was quoting that, sva-vi-varāhoṣṭra-kharai saṁstuta puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. This class of scientists and such, they are eulogized by small rascals. They are rascals, and small rascals... That is actually happening. Just like your President Nixon. How he was being given reception, crowd. Hundreds and thousands of people used to come. And then again get him down, make him humiliated as far as possible. So this is a rascal, Nixon, and the person who elected him, they are rascals. Therefore the Bhāgavata says, sva-vi-varāhoṣṭra-kharai saṁstutaḥ. Here is one big animal, and the small animals voting him. That's all. This is the society, animal society—the small animals praising the big animals. That's all. All of them are animals only.

Devotee: The big animals also prey on the small animals.

Morning Walk -- October 21, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: General consensus of opinion... Let them say that there will be no more death, and how it will act? General consensus of opinion... Let them vote, "We do not want death anymore." Will it be accepted?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: Then? What is the value of your vote? You are madmen. Just like Gandhi made civil disobedience here, and government did not accept it. What could he do? (break) ...truth. If the majority says, "No, it is truth," it will be truth?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: Then untruth is untruth.

Morning Walk -- November 16, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, and therefore Kṛṣṇa said, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). Unless one is siddha, there is no question of understanding Kṛṣṇa. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). Even if he is siddha he cannot understand. Out of many of them, one may understand. And they are trying to understand Kṛṣṇa by imagination. Just see the folly. Kṛṣṇa said,

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścid...

(BG 7.3)

And because one is voted some big man-śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19)—he is thinking...(laughter) He is thinking that "I can imagine my Kṛṣṇa." Hare Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) (break) ...accept the opinion of a saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. Because public votes are there, although he is a puruṣaḥ paśuḥ, we have to accept. So Ambarisa Mahārāja, you are feeling all right or not?

Ambarisa: Yes, I am feeling well today.

Prabhupāda: You are taking yogurt? Give him kicheri and yogurt.

Harikesa: He won't eat yogurt. Ambarisa: No, I eat it with that śādhisav, gold(?), mixed in it.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Take yogurt with black pepper and salt. Yes.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Angry... With shoes. We beat them with shoes that "You have created a civilization to work like ass, and ideal is to become a pig. What is this civilization? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puru... (SB 2.3.19). And for their votes you become a president. What you are better than a pig? A pig votes for another pig, big pig. That's all. How people will be happy?"

Harikeśa: You told them that in South Africa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Did I say?

Harikeśa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But they clapped.

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This is the fact. Therefore Bhāgavata says, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. They are very much proud: "I have got ninety-nine percent votes and I have become President." But what you are? You are another big pig only. Who has voted you? The voters are pigs and asses and camel and dogs. So if these animal vote for somebody, then what he is? Is there... Are... Their votes are calculable at all? Votes by the dogs, pigs, camels, and... śva-viḍ-varāha. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-khara, and asses. So what is the value of these votes? And that is going on, democracy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How can they vote for human beings?

Prabhupāda: There is no human being. A big... I gave that a big animal, lion, is fearful to the small animal. But because he is lion, very strong, does it mean that he's a human being? That is going on. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). If one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's nothing but animal. So if other small animals praise him, "Oh, you are..." This Gandhi or Indira Gandhi or, and the Hitler and... What is the value? He's a big animal, that's all.

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Who will do that? That can be possible if you spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement very widely and they become convinced that "We shall not vote anyone to these rascals. We must have a Vaiṣṇava." Then everything will be changed. That is the only opportunity, that if people become Vaiṣṇava and they decide that "We are not going to vote anyone who is not a Vaiṣṇava," then everything will be all right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes the devotees question that the Kali-yuga is advancing, and in that sense the standards are deteriorating. Yet you are preaching that "Get everyone to the position where everyone is Kṛṣṇa conscious." How in the Kali-yuga advancing can everyone become Kṛṣṇa conscious?

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And bābu candra mantrī. Another foolish mantrī. One, one foolish, king; another foolish is ministers. So that is going on. All the rascals, they are getting vote. One is becoming president, another is becoming the prime minister. But both of them are rascals.

Acyutānanda: The, the law they are passing now is that the president and prime minister under no case can be brought in court.

Prabhupāda: That is all right. That is good.

Acyutānanda: They can do anything.

Yaśodānandana: I think that some of the comments of Your Divine Grace, some of the purports of the Fourth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, if they come to the notice of the Indian government, it may give us some... They may seriously consider about banning, because in that one purport you openly criticize how unfortunate the citizens are because they have a woman as the prime minister, and in another purport you openly say that the citizens should keep their, some of their treasury secret, which is against the principle of their income tax.

Morning Walk -- February 27, 1976, Mayapura:

Devotee (1): When the prime minister of Canada, when he was, when he first began running, he was a young bachelor, very good looking, long hair. And he sent around girls in mini-skirts, kissing men on the cheeks, giving them a little candy for his campaign, and he, he almost got all the votes, became the prime minister.

Dayānanda: We were talking yesterday how nice this story of Prahlāda Mahārāja is, because no matter how great a demon becomes, still, he cannot vanquish the devotees, even if the devotee is a very insignificant little boy, only five years old. These demons seem so...

Hari-śauri: Powerful.

Dayānanda: ...horrible. The society is so degraded. (break)

Hari-śauri: 6:20.

Prabhupāda: Eh? The idea of reincarnation. That is horrible for them.

Hari-śauri: If they understood that they would have to pay later for what they're doing now, they wouldn't be able to do it.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So, what is the report?

Morning Walk -- March 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: At least five lakhs he was earning. So the Congress resolution was that "noncooperation," so "Boycott British court. We are not going on." So resolution that everyone should give up practice of law in the British court. Resolution. So C. R. Das did not like that idea. He said that "I am earning fifty thousand. I can give the whole amount for Congress propaganda. Why you are asking me to give up this practice?" So the resolution was, "No, we should noncooperate. We don't want money. We should noncooperate." So when... He fought in the meeting that "This should be withdrawn." So it was not withdrawn. Then he resigned. Then he resigned. He became practically poverty-stricken, because he was earning fifty thousand rupees per month, and he had no practice, and he was not keeping any money in the bank. When he resigned, then some of his friend, Muhammad Ali... He was also one of the prominent members. He asked, "Mr. Das, what is your bank balance?" So he replied, "I do not know what is my bank balance, but I know I am debtor to the bank by two lakhs." The bank was giving him credit, so this was his position. So my point is that when the... He fought his best that "This resolution should be withdrawn, boycott of British court," but it was not done. But although he was very strong protester, still he had to do it. This is modern democracy. If the majority votes is in favor of something, even if I do not like it, I'll have to accept it. That is, of course, the so-called democracy. That..., we do not accept that. Our obedience is to the spiritual master.

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: That is the defect. That is the defect of the modern civilization. They vote. Just like in big democratic country like America they voted Nixon to become president, and when they found that "This man is a bogus," they again dragged him down. So this is going on. We vote somebody to the topmost position, and we see that he's a rascal. So therefore we do not advise. We say just take lesson from Kṛṣṇa, who is recognized by everyone. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We don't say, "Go to a bogus man and take instruction." We don't say.

Indian Devotee: May I interrupt? What Swami has described in all the books—as it exists, no further contribution, no amendment, no interpretation. He has described all what has been written in Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, in its truest form. So no imitation, no representation, no interpretation. Swamiji has described exactly as it happened.

Prabhupāda: And that is being appreciated all over the world.

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, the real is that all rogues are in the government.

Dr. Patel: Yes, that is the right thing. Not only rogues...

Prabhupāda: So why don't you, if you are actually serious, why don't you make propaganda in the country that "Please do not give vote to the rogues." Don't mention any party. "If you want to be happy, then don't give vote to the rogues." And who is a rogue? The illicit sex hunters, the intoxicants, and the meat-eaters, and the gamblers. These are rogues.

Dr. Patel: They are all there in Delhi.

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no, you don't mention any. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So it is impartial. And actually, if they test that "Whether this man I am voting, he is free from all these sinful activities?" Then, you see, the whole face of the Indian government will change.

Dr. Patel: Sir, I may tell you, the adults.... That change is meant for the educated, cultured, and...

Prabhupāda: No, no, you don't name that educated, cultured. You simply say that "You vote for this person."

Dr. Patel: People vote for five-rupee notes. They don't vote anything else.

Prabhupāda: Then they will suffer. Then don't, don't complain. Don't complain.

Dr. Patel: I was a political worker myself and a member of the ruling party and a member of the assembly. I know how they collect votes.

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So at least you can make some propaganda that "Don't give votes to these persons." Don't name any. Then he will be envious. No.

Dr. Patel: You will be in the jail.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: I don't mind going to the...

Prabhupāda: No, if you preach these moral principles, nobody will object. Nobody will object.

Dr. Patel: They are shamming themselves as big moralist. They go to temples and what not and what not and what not. And then they...

Prabhupāda: But still in India they will never accept a drunkard as moralist. Still.

Dr. Patel: Sir, all of them are drunkards, who are there.

Prabhupāda: You cannot say.

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Because we rascals vote them.

Dr. Patel: No, sir. What man, rascals, vote them? It is the hutment fellows who bring them because they are in majority. I have never been elect to, I mean my candidate. Every time my vote goes useless.

Prabhupāda: That means you or your brother votes; somebody is elected. People are degenerated; therefore they do not know whom to vote.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They are what, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: People are?

Prabhupāda: Degenerated. They do not...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Degenerated.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they do not know.

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: They vote five-rupees notes.

Prabhupāda: So that is degeneration. For five-rupee notes he is giving his valuable vote to anybody. That is degeneration.

Dr. Patel: That is why we really.... We are not for this type of Western type of democracy. We should have Rāma-rājya, a benevolent dictatorship of a good king, a religious king like Rāma. That should be the ideal condition for this country. This way, sir.

Prabhupāda: Our buses are bigger than this, I think. Eh?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Dr. Patel: This is a Matadar Campo(?), no? This is a Matadar Campo(?).

Devotee (2): (break) ...Deities with Acyutānanda Swami. He's going to travel down South India as soon as he's finished...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, very nice. Better Gaura-Nitāi. Gaura-Nitāi is better.

Devotee (2): But Acyutānanda was explaining that people in South India don't accept Gaura-Nitāi so much as Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- May 1, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Naturally, they will praise, "Oh, sir, you are the king." Does it mean he's king? He's animal. So it is going on. They are electing a big animal as president. And when he begins to eat, animal, big animal, then they protest, "Oh, now he's not proper president. Get him down, get him down." But why you sent him? "Because we are pigs; we have no other knowledge. We another, appoint another big pig as our president." Everything is explained in the Vedic literature. If you can present them properly, it will act. The voters are śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-khara. And the president is another big animal. That's all. This is transaction of animal kingdom. A lion is the king of some asses, pigs, dogs, and hogs. What business you can expect there? This is their real picture. One who is a human being, he's seeing that how the animals are enjoying by voting and electing president. But they are thinking, "We are busy in a very great business.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Well, government means combination of cheaters like you. What do you expect more than that? If you are cheaters, then you go to the government. Someway or other get vote. Bribe or something nefarious you do and get vote, and they become cheap government man. And then do your business. Because you are cheater, you have come to the post of prestige and power. What you will do? You know simply only cheat.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So he'll cheat more.

Prabhupāda: That's all. You have now got the power. You cheat more.

Rāmeśvara: The people in America that claim that the American government is controlled by Communists. They say that these big, big bankers, the very rich, rich people, that they are actually..., their theory is Communist government, or, not Communist, dictatorship, and that they are secretly manipulating.

Prabhupāda: What is their aim?

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: They're very expert in making the people think that this is democracy and that the people have power. (static)

Prabhupāda: If you can purchase vote by paying money, then where is democracy?

Rāmeśvara: Just like one of their arguments is that these rich bankers, they can control how much money is being printed.

Prabhupāda: Yes, suppose I stand for presidency, and I take money from bank and bribe and get vote.

Rāmeśvara: So they can actually create, by their control, a depression.

Prabhupāda: Yes, money can buy. The real thing is money. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Money is the criterion in the Kali-yuga. If you have got money, then you don't require anything; you can purchase anything.

Rāmeśvara: Purchase justice.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: If you bring public in your favor, it is not difficult.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a fact. You have to bring them in your favor.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "A Kṛṣṇa conscious man. He's a Kṛṣṇa conscious man. Give him vote." This opinion. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It will happen gradually.

Rāmeśvara: One day our men will be leaders of government?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Leaders means as soon as you make the public in your favor, you are leader.

Rāmeśvara: But they'll actually manage the government?

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: That is the difficulty. The government is rākṣasa. So you have to take charge of the government. First of all make propaganda, the majority of population may (be) in favor of you. Then you'll get vote. This is the easiest process. If majority people likes, that "These Kṛṣṇa conscious men are very nice," then you make a candidate—"Vote for Kṛṣṇa conscious person, such and such." They'll vote. In this way, you'll capture the Senate, then government, then President's office. It is very.... At least, there must be majority of the people sympathizers of this movement. Then it will be successful. So you do everything exemplified, and people will vote. But it is difficult in this way, that "These people are prohibiting intoxication and gambling. How we can live without this?" That is the difficulty. They cannot imagine even that without these things one can live. Is it not?

Hari-śauri: It's a fact. If you stop them doing that, they'll have no activity, just working.

Room Conversation -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: No, no. He was made chief. Guru Mahārāja did not make him chief. But after his passing away, some of our Godbrothers voted him chief.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Am I mis...? You had told me once, I'm not certain. Maybe I made a mistake. You said that Vāsudeva, it was known fact that he was homosex?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Vāsudeva.

Prabhupāda: He was homosex and sex, everything.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Here, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in this city.... I haven't been back in so many years to America. Things have become more degraded. I'm watching women and women walking arm around each other. And I asked, "What is this?" "Oh," he says "they are lesbians." Women together, girlfriends. They don't mix with men.

Prabhupāda: This is now very much prevalent in America.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That is my question. Where is that full advantage? They are remaining in the darkness. Why do you trust, first of all. Why do you trust? So many questions there are. Why you are prepared to trust in God? If I ask, you must answer. If you cannot answer, then you are ass. It is good, even without knowing, but when the slogan comes from the government side, there must be full knowledge. Otherwise, the government is as good as common man. The government should be full of intelligent men. Why vote is there? You select an intelligent man. Otherwise, anyone can go. Cats and dogs, they also can go. Why the voting system? That you select some intelligent man. So if you cannot answer your slogan, then you are not intelligent, you are unfit.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They've made the platform that the man himself can solve all the problems.

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Śrīla Prabhupāda: "Yes. Just like in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness society. You come to consult me about every activity because I can give you the common cause. Otherwise there will be fighting. The government should be very expert to know the aim of life, the common cause, and they should train the people to work for the common cause Then they will be happy and peaceful. But if people simply elect rascals like Nixon, they will never find a common cause. Any rascal can secure votes by some arrangement and then he becomes the head of the government. The candidates are bribing. They are cheating. They are making propaganda to win votes. Somehow or other they get votes and capture the prime posts. This system is bad."

Reporter: "So if we don't choose our leaders by popular election, how will society be governed?"

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: "You require brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas and śūdras. Just as when you want to construct a building you require engineers. You don't want sweepers. Isn't that so? What will the sweeper do? No. There must be engineers. So if you follow the division of varṇāśrama, only kṣatriyas are allowed to govern. And for the legislative assembly, the senators, only qualified brāhmaṇas. Now the butcher is in the legislative assembly. What does he know about making laws? He is a butcher. But by winning votes he becomes a senator. At the present moment, by the principle of vox populi, a butcher goes to the legislature. So everything depends on training. In our Kṛṣṇa consciousness society we are actually doing that. But in the case of politics they forget it. There cannot be just one class. That is foolishness. Because we have to engage different classes of men in different activities.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: They have not done. Has everyone got the president's power? How do they say that you have done. Everyone equal? That is not possible. These are imagination. Mano-rathenasato dhāvato bahiḥ Everything is there in the Bhāgavatam. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. These rascals who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, they have no value. They are simply speculating within the mind, mano-rathena, and they'll act all abominable, because they are on the mental platform. I'll say "I think like this," you'll say "I think like this." And nobody, none of us perfect. Then what is the use of your thinking like this or thinking like that? Both of them are imperfect. So if so many rascals sit together, or dogs, they simply bark, that's all. It has no value. So our propaganda is that "Don't remain in the dog platform. Come to the human platform." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There you will get, "If we all dogs meet together and pass a resolution, then it will be organized." That is democracy. Democracy means like that. The dog is kept as dog, and they are assembled together to take their votes. What is the value of their vote? They are dogs. I've publicly said this, where?

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Now they can amend. By simply by writing by the government men, that's all, it becomes a law. There is no question of its validity, but because it is spoken by government, therefore the... In other words, the government men should be so honest and so elevated that actually their words should be law. But this is democracy. Any nonsense can take vote and go to the government, and then whatever he will say, that will be law. Who cares that he's a rascal? Somehow or other he has gotten vote and he's in a position. Who is considering that? And in the Vedic age only the first-class brāhmaṇas and sages, they would... Manu-saṁhitā. That is law, not that any rascal goes into the legislative assembly and passes some law. Of course, whatever government says, that is law, but what is the position of the government now? And similarly everything. A yogi is actually worshipable. But what are these yogis, rascals? So these are asuric. And it is said... What is that?

Interview with Mike Darby -- June 30, 1976, Wheeling, W. Virginia:

Prabhupāda: No, they are passing resolution. Suppose there is a law of the state, ordinary, say, "Keep to the right," and in this village all members, they assemble together and pass a resolution that "No, keep to the left." Will it be accepted? Even they pass a resolution, the state will not accept it. Unless it is... Of course, there should be no change. But, anything spoken by God or His son or His representative, that cannot be changed. It is not that Christ said two thousand years ago, "Thou shall not kill," now it can be changed. That is rascaldom. They are doing that. If you do that, then, as it is said here, then it becomes lost. Then there is no meaning. If we take the instruction of God and His representative as temporary, then he is not representative, He is not God. Whatever is spoken by God and His representative, that is eternal. You cannot change by your whims. So that is going on. We..., I do not wish to discuss very much, but that is actually going on. As people they, by votes in the Parliament, they pass any nonsense thing, so they want to do that in the case of Bible also. Then where is the authority of Bible? If Christ says that "Thou shall not kill," and if people, say ten thousand people in a meeting pass resolution, "No, this is wrong," then where is the authority of Bible? Then you become authority.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: The Presidential candidate. He will not give his opinion.

Devotee: Who is that, Reagan?

Rāmeśvara: No, Carter. They are unwilling to give their opinion because then someone may not vote for them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, that's too controversial. Most people are for abortion.

Prabhupāda: Why they are for abortion?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because it gives them unlimited room for sense gratification. The whole business is...

Prabhupāda: So why not become brahmacārī?

Devotee (1): They want to dance without paying the piper. (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I tell them "Birth control by self control." That is our program.

Prabhupāda: Besides that, why birth control?

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: We take care, but we take care more for the spirit soul than the body. That is our basic principle.

Interviewer: But do you think most of the Hare Kṛṣṇa members will vote in the election in November?

Prabhupāda: They're attending? (indistinct)

Bali-mardana: He's asking if you think that they will vote, our members will vote.

Interviewer: Will they participate in the election? Will they register and vote do you think?

Prabhupāda: Personally I never give votes.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: Never voted. You're a citizen however, aren't you, a U.S. citizen?

Prabhupāda: I am permanent resident.

Bali-mardana: Permanent resident.

Prabhupāda: Immigrant.

Interviewer: Well will they follow your example and not vote?

Prabhupāda: I do not know, but our principle is that I vote for this man or that man, so what is spiritual benefit, that is our point.

Bali-mardana: If he was Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he might vote. If the politician is God conscious, then we'll support him.

Interviewer: Vote for this man or that, what spiritual difference would it make, is that the way you put that?

Bali-mardana: Yes, as long as the candidate is not God conscious it wouldn't make any difference which way we vote, but if he's God conscious, then we'll vote.

Interviewer: Well, would he have to be in the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement to be God conscious?

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Not Bhagavad-gītā or anything, but he must... Just like a book, mathematics, it may be written by different men, but one must be a mathematician.

Interviewer: I think what Bali was saying is that if a Kṛṣṇa consciousness member were running for an office then you would get out and vote for him. That he would be God conscious.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Interviewer: But I'm trying to ask does he have to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, involvement, in order to be God conscious?

Prabhupāda: Everyone should be Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Interviewer: Huh?

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Hari-śauri: I think Calcutta was voted the second dirtiest city in the world.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ācchā? Just see. And it was next to London. People used to say, "In the British Empire, first London, second Calcutta." And now it is...?

Hari-śauri: Second dirtiest city.

Prabhupāda: And who is the first?

Harikeśa: Karachi.

Hari-śauri: Karachi. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Both of them got sva-rāja, Pakistan and India. That means after getting sva-rāja..., Karachi was one of the first-class city, yes. They cannot manage. Unfit persons, they are on the top of government.

Hari-śauri: Seems everything is devolving at a phenomenal rate. Every decade that passes, everything breaks down twice as fast. Just in the last twenty years or thirty years everything has become so much degraded and...

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: No, that is not Christianity. If you can change, there is no religion. That is mental concoction. As soon as you make change, we reject immediately, useless. Religion (is) the world of God. Religion means the word of God. You cannot change the word of God. If you change the word of God, that is material, that is not religion. You cannot change the word of God by your votes. That is useless. If you say that religion..., religion means the dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Find out this verse, Sixth Canto. There is no Sixth Canto there?

Hari-śauri: We have one volume, but it's the wrong volume. We have Volume Two.

Prabhupāda: Oh. The definition of religion is just like law. Law can be given by the government. You cannot make law. If you make at home some law, nobody will touch it. It is not obligatory. But if government says "Keep to the right," it is obligatory. This is law. So religion, you cannot manufacture religion. Religion means the word of God. And if yearly or quarterly you change the words, that is not religion. That is not religion. That is mental concoction. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. No change. Others, they are interpreting in their own way. That is not Bhagavad-gītā. That is something else.

Morning Walk -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Because we have no, that cātur-varṇa system. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). You have given up Kṛṣṇa's instruction, now you have to suffer. You do not train brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. So anyone who is in power, he is good. That is Kali-yuga. Kali-yuga means anyone gets vote, he's in power. They can misuse the power. There is no kṣatriya.

Dr. Patel: I think that is a wrong system (much airplane noise-indistinct) this open Democracy is not a (indistinct) by consensus...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Now, either democracy or monarchy, the population is śūdra. So either you make it democracy or any "crazy," śūdra will be on the power. So they can...

Dr. Patel: In Kali-yuga, sir, the śūdras will rule according to the...

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Who?

Jayapatākā: The MLA. The local Member of Legislative Assembly. He was previously a little against us. But because our whole aṁśa (?) is for us, if he doesn't cooperate he won't get their vote, they want the development in their area. Also the...He is changing a little. Everyone is saying that our society is actually simply doing sincere work.

Prabhupāda: As they doing (?).

Jayapatākā: This food distribution has been very important.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Jayapatākā: Now the price of rice has gone up by about eighty paisa. From two rupees to two-eighty. So the poor class of people, they are in a very bad situation. So now our attendance has gone up from twelve hundred to two thousand on that Saturday and Sunday, each day. So we have two shifts. So many people are coming that they come from ten o'clock in the morning and wait because otherwise they can't get a boat in time to cross the river. So then we were very surprised to read in a recent newsletter from LA that "They're going to restart the food relief." But we never knew it stopped. We never knew that they had stopped the food relief. We saw then that he said, "They're going to restart." But we never stopped, and we were very surprised to see that. And now they say...

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: No, democracy means the people must have political sense. Then democracy is there. If the people have no political sense, artificially they are giving vote, that democracy... Anyway, we are not political man, but so far whatever it may be, to change the present situation, I am confident if this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is taken seriously in India there will be very, very good thing. That is absolute. So we can take up this work provided there is little cooperation from the government.

Krishna Modi: Correct. So I will come to Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. (end)

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They have proposed it. That Houston politician, "It is spreading like epidemic." Hm? Come. "It is spreading like epidemic. Something must be done." Otherwise one day they'll capture our government." That's a fact. If so many young men join this movement, they will vote. Because your country is democratic. (conchshell blows) Do this what I suggested.

Haṁsadūta: Yeah. You see them...

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) (break) "What is this pressure?" "Sir is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (laughter) And very bad." Some day somebody says, "No it is good." (laughter) But Kṛṣṇa pressure.

Haṁsadūta: That pressure is being felt.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Otherwise who cares for whom? There are so many things. Here also, they are feeling the pressure, the so-called swamis, yogis, Gosvāmīs, religious groups, Māyāvādīs...

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This is kṣatriya. Now, who is kṣatriya? A fourth-class man, he never seen battlefield and by vote he becomes president. And here kṣatriya means yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam. If there is fight he must come forward first of all. He is in his palace, and he's engaging common men, "Go and fight." When there was Battle of Kurukṣetra Arjuna and Duryodhana, they came first. Because the battle was decided as soon as the leader is dead. No more fight. So they used to come first. This is kṣatriya. Where is that kṣatriya? And they are becoming politicians simply by votes, all third-class, fourth-class men. What he'll do? Everyone is trying to keep his position by hook and crook. How he'll think of the people? How they will be happy? He is thinking of his own happiness. And these are politicians. There is no kṣatriya. There is no brāhmaṇa. And there is no vaiśya. What is the vaiśya?

Hari-śauri: Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44).

Room Conversation -- November 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Pradyumna: He started out in the military, he was in the Navy. Then afterwards... His father had a peanut farm, and then his father became sick, so then he gave up his Navy thing. He came back to take care of the family. Then he began that peanut business. Now he doesn't have to do it any more because now he has made millions. He is wealthy man, very wealthy. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...capture American government. Then all world will follow. As they are known as Communists, we should be known as Hare Kṛṣṇas. We are already known as such, Hare Kṛṣṇas. Keep that name. People at least chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Jagadīśa: Hare Kṛṣṇa Party.

Prabhupāda: It is already well advertised all over the world. So keep this name, Hare Kṛṣṇas. "Vote for Hare Kṛṣṇas." Anywhere you live, you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. All right, you can go. (end)

Evening Darsana -- December 3, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So public opinion dictates that "This property is ours." Will he give by votes? Why he'll protest on that point?

Guest: His point is that because everyone is telling Kṛṣṇa is Supreme, therefore you are also supreme, but where is it true that Kṛṣṇa is Supreme?

Prabhupāda: So we have to meet such rascals and we have to preach. The world is full of rascals, mūḍha. What can be done? But we cannot change our preaching because the rascals are many. That is not... We cannot make that...

Guest: There is no medicine for mūḍhas.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is medicine; there is beating with shoes. That is going on. Mūrkhasya laktansadhiḥ,(?) argumentum baculum. You cannot mildly speak to the animals, "My dear cow, my dear dog, please do not bark. Do not go this way." No, you require lāṭhi, stick, and they will behave. Can you stop dog's barking by simply request? But you take the stick and beat it, and he will stop. Mūrkhasya laktausadhiḥ.(?) So there is no king. There is no kṣatriya. Therefore these rascals are talking all nonsense. There is no śāsana.

Evening Darsana -- December 3, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: I know. There is no question of individual. I know these rascals. God is so easy thing that simply by I am thinking that "I am moving the sun, I am moving the..., mo mo mo mo." He'll... because the whole world is mūḍha, we cannot say that "Yes, I am also with you. I am also one of the mūḍha." We cannot say. The votes may be against us but we cannot agree to that. We simply speak for Kṛṣṇa's sake. That is Kṛṣṇa. We cannot make any compromise. What do they say about this version in the Bhagavad-gītā, kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ prapadyante anya devatāḥ (BG 7.20). What do they say? What is their opinion? But don't say, "Somebody said..." Everyone is fool, rascal. What is the value of their words?

Guest: Or this one mission says, "You worship your is the devatā."

Prabhupāda: Yes, I know these rascals. Therefore the country's position is the Godless India. They lost their culture.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: How you can expect good wishes from such persons? Very precarious condition. Your son, you take care. Now, as soon as you make a committee to take care of your son, then everything is finished. Is it not? The committee members will finish the son and the son's maintenance and everything. But that is going on. Formerly there was one monarch. He was acting according to the Vedic instruction. So he was responsible. And if there are many votes, by vote a government, a combination of plunderers, what they will take care of the people? It is impossible. Otherwise why there was need of dragging down Nixon? He was elected, wrong elected. Wrong must be. The people are wrong. They do not know who is the right man. Any rascal makes some intrigue, and he gets vote. And then they detect, "Oh, he's the wrong man." Again another is taken. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). And what is the guarantee that another man is right? Because the process is wrong.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām: (SB 7.5.30) "Again and again chewing the chewed." But if they make it point that "If one is not Kṛṣṇa consciousness, I'll not give a vote," then everything will be perfect, nice.

Hari-śauri: Some countries fine you if you don't vote. If you don't vote, they fine you just to make people vote, because they know otherwise everybody's so disgusted...

Prabhupāda: Just see. I have never given vote. Since we have got this sva-rāj, as soon as the vote question, I go away. Because I think, "Why shall I give this nonsense vote? None of them are liked by me." I avoid it. In my gṛhastha life, the municipal board and the..., I avoid. I don't believe in. So give Mr. Asnani some fruits.

Hari-śauri: Some fruit?

Prabhupāda: Cut into pieces.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Pradyumna: "It is said here that the cows used to moisten the pasturing land with milk because their milk bags were fatty and the animals were joyful. Do they not require, therefore, proper protection for a joyful life by being fed with a sufficient quantity of grass in the field? Why should men kill cows for their selfish purposes? Why should men not be satisfied with grains, fruits and milk, which combined together can produce hundreds and thousands of palatable dishes? Why are there slaughterhouses all over the world to kill innocent animals? Mahārāja Parīkṣit, grandson of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, while touring his vast kingdom, saw a black man attempting to kill a cow. The king at once arrested the butcher and chastised him sufficiently. Should not a king or executive head protect the lives of the poor animals who are unable to defend themselves? Is this humanity? Are not the animals of a country citizens also? Then why are they allowed to be butchered in organized slaughterhouses? Are these the signs of equality, fraternity, and nonviolence? Therefore, in contrast with the modern, advanced, civilized form of government, an autocracy like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's is by far superior to a so-called democracy in which animals are killed and a man less than an animal is allowed to cast votes for another less-than-animal-man."

Prabhupāda: That's all (laughing) we have said. You can do one thing. You have got nim tree?

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: So therefore these four animals have been mentioned: śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ (SB 2.3.19). And he is, this class of men, selecting a leader by vote, democracy. So this class man intelligence, just see. And what class of man he will select? And how we desire to be happy by such elected men who is elected by these dog, hog, camel and asses? Are there any intelligent? And you expect good government, peaceful state and... And the śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. Therefore the others, they went to see the lion. So dog, hog, camel, ass will... "Oh, he's a lion." But what is a lion? It is also an animal, big animal. That's all. Similarly, the so-called president and leader and Gandhi, they are also another animal, big animal. So does it mean an animal big and very powerful, he has got the human intelligence? This is civilization. And when you say the right thing, that human life is meant for understanding God and prepare for the next life—"brainwash." This is life.

Room Conversation with Two Indian Guests -- January 27, 1977, Jagannatha Puri:

Prabhupāda: This is one thing. This is one thing, that... No, they are taking seriously. And another thing is that if the public opinion becomes in favor of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then they will get vote and they'll capture government, because it is republic. That is another point, another. The most important point is: these boys who come to me, they forget forever their families or father, mother. No family. That is their great shock.

Guest (2) (Indian man): No, what is that? That is nothing. We see...

Prabhupāda: No, no. This is the principle, why they are opposing it. They are not these transcendental meditator that here going and coming home, and they are doing all same, because they have no restriction. But my students, as soon as they come to this, they are not, no more going home. They will not touch any food, yes, because they have seen there is a (indistinct).

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Well, at the moment they're the majority. So majority carries the vote. That's the slogan. But if they're open-minded, if they are honest... We say, "Be honest, be frank, and be open-minded. Why you confine your small theory?"

Prabhupāda: No, they are not open-minded. They have to be pushed within the water. (laughs)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's our first remark, "Please let's be open-minded. We are not dogmatic. We're not presenting something religious, fanatic. But let's discuss in open platform, see which one is..."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is our argument. Just like this plant is coming out of the womb of mother. Everything comes from the mother. So there must be father. Anything you see, it is coming from earth. Earth is the mother. Dhenu-dhātrī. So where is the father? "I cannot see." You cannot see? That does not mean there is no father. There must be father. And the father says, "Yes!" Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). Bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). The answer is there.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: These things were not going nicely. Therefore gradually it broke. But if things are going nicely, people will be happy. They will not revolt. You have to keep the citizens satisfied in all respects. You must know the necessity how people are satisfied. You have to arrange the government in that way. Then there will be no revolution. Mass of people, if they are satisfied, they will not revolt. But they do not know the process. The "demoncracy," the common man is allowed to vote. He has no knowledge and he's voting. This is most condemned process. Camara-bhangi, a sweeper, he is voted to become Minister of Defense. His business is to cleanse the street, and now he's voted to become because he has got number of votes. So many bhangis, they vote, "Yes, he is our leader. He should be Defense Minister." You have to do that. This is democracy. His business is to sweep, and he's voted a defense minister.

Hari-śauri: But in, say in America, they argue that everybody's educated now. In America...

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: But at least if there is extreme exploitation by a king or dictator it can't be changed. But the people...

Prabhupāda: There cannot be exploitation if things are made in order. Just like kṣatriya should be trained up as kṣatriya. Then he is king. Not that a bhangi by vote becomes a king. This is education.

śauryaṁ tejo dhṛtir dākṣyaṁ

yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam

dānam īśvara-bhāvaś ca

kṣātraṁ karma svabhāva-jam

(BG 18.43)

He must be very powerful, very strong, strongly built. You have seen the picture, Rāmacandra? Sturdy body. You see. Lakṣmaṇa. Because kṣatriya. They should be trained up as kṣatriya. Therefore the varṇāśrama college is required to train people who is able to become a brāhmaṇa, who is able to become a kṣatriya, who is able to become... In this way division must be. And according to the quality and work there must be division for cooperation. There is a big scheme. They have lost. They do not know. All bhangis, camara, śūdras, they are simply given vote. That's all. Where is the training?

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Either educate them or control them. Give them facility of education. But there is no education at all. Even for the whites there is no education. So we are stressing on the point of education. You educate certain section as brāhmaṇa, certain section as kṣatriya, certain section as vaiśya. In that education we don't discriminate because he's coming of a śūdra family. Take education. Be qualified. Then you talk. Not by votes.

Satsvarūpa: Lord Caitanya, when Rāmānanda Rāya brought this up He said it was not possible in this age to introduce this.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not... He did not say possible. Ihā bāhya. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was interested only on the spiritual platform. He had no idea of material side. He rejected material side.

Satsvarūpa: But don't we do that also?

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ...the varṇāśrama established, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra-division, scientific division of the society. Ideal state. Just like the legislative assembly. They should be composed of men with complete brahminical culture. And the ministers, president, they should be kṣatriya, and the productive, vaiśyas, and balance śūdra, worker. Unless an ideal class of men is on the top of the state to give advice—just like Britishers, they assemble Parliament—there cannot be any improvement to the human society. All nonsense and rascals, simply by votes go to be member of the Parliament. They assemble. What they know? What they'll do? The whole world is mismanaged because there is no brahminical culture. Namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca, jagad-dhitāya kṛṣṇāya govindā... I am proposing this because Kṛṣṇa consciousness means namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. That must be... The state must be in favor of brahminical culture and cow protection. Then everything will be all right. So Manipur is small state. If they agree, the leaders of the... It is not politics. It is betterment of the situation. And without brahminical culture, all these third-class, fourth-class, loafer class, simply by votes hooks and crooks and becomes president, Nixon and so on. Where is the betterment? It will never be.

Room Conversation -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Gargamuni: Yeah, most of the fights we have aren't personal. They're just difference of opinion.

Prabhupāda: No, that will go on. Then majority vote. Then it's decided. What can be done?

Gargamuni: No one has any personal animosity.

Hṛdayānanda: No. There's no more personal animosity. A chairman was elected, Kīrtanānanda Swami, and vice chairman, Jayatīrtha, and secretary, again Satsvarūpa.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Who is chairman?

Hṛdayānanda: Kīrtanānanda Swami.

Prabhupāda: He's senior.

Hṛdayānanda: Yes.

Gargamuni: Is Gopāla here? No.

Hṛdayānanda: Yes. Everyone was present except Gargamuni.

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is the way. Amongst the same persons, one may get chance by selection, by majority vote. That is the way.

Hari-śauri: Democratic.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The persons are the same, twenty men. Now, by this selection of the majority persons, one becomes chairman for one year. Then everyone has the chance. That is the way. So that is... So secretaries and vice chairman also should be for one year.

Satsvarūpa: Then, in regard to these meetings, we passed this resolution, that... (break) ...that we pass will be brought before Your Divine Grace for approval. Then they can be posted on a bulletin board so devotees can see what they were. Then after all the days' meetings of the GBC are finished, then we'll have a meeting of the temple presidents. If, at their meeting, by a two-thirds majority vote, they suggest any amendments to the resolutions or make new resolutions, these will be sent back to the GBC, who will meet again and who will again vote...

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Suppose I am a very big business magnate. Next life, if I am going to become a dog—according to my karma, the nature's law will act—then what is benefit? One day before, Indira Gandhi was so important. Next day I'll maybe(?) nowhere, finished. Nobody knows where is Indira Gandhi. Just twenty-four hours she was most prominent woman. And after twenty-four hours nobody cares to look at her. This nature's law, how you can check? This is going on. Any moment, anything can be changed by the laws of nature. So India's importance is there. They know the law. Therefore so long the body, full of intelligence, human body, is there, they'll utilize it very... That is life, not to be carried away by the waves of nature. This is India's duty. So we want to make our institution at least a place for understanding this knowledge. It doesn't matter only a few persons may understand. That is sufficient. Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārāḥ sahasraśaḥ: "If you keep one moon in the sky, that is sufficient for light. What is the use of millions of stars?" Modern education, they are creating twinkling stars, millions. All useless for light. No light. And our Vedic civilization is: "Create one moon. That's all." That is sufficient. We respect, therefore, ācāryas. Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, not the so-called voted leaders. We don't care for them. What is their value? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19).

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Pañcadraviḍa: To lose this knowledge? No, it's not all right.

Prabhupāda: People are in darkness. To keep them like dogs, hogs, camels, and take vote from them and become a leader... Nobody protested that we call all the men dogs, hogs, camels. Nobody came forward, that "You are using very strong words." It's a fact.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They agree.

Hṛdayānanda: They were applauding your lecture last night.

Prabhupāda: Our Tamāla Kṛṣṇa appreciated very much.

Hṛdayānanda: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I loved that lecture.

Hṛdayānanda: It was wonderful last night.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I told Prabhupāda the lecture was like atom bomb.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He told like that.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then why...? What is this? This is nonsense. Two plus two equal to four. It will be accepted by everyone. Every scientist, every mathematician. And if by vote, secular state, "It is five" or "It is six," shall we have to accept it? We have to accept knowledge as it is. Why you say secular or not secular?

Mr. Koshi: No, I think it is a question of accepting a concept of...

Prabhupāda: No concept. It is science. It is not... Try to understand this. "Two plus two" is science. It is not concept.

Mr. Koshi: I know that. But let us look at it this way. You are saying that Kṛṣṇa is important, but somebody else says that somebody else is important.

Prabhupāda: If Kṛṣṇa is important, why shall He not be taken?

Mr. Koshi: If somebody else says that Jack is important...

Prabhupāda: Somebody. What is that somebody? Is he a scientist? Is he a philosopher? Is he advanced? Any loafer class man say anything.

Room Conversation -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then whole meeting, people are coming, Russian people. When Indira is empowered they are coming to hear her, and she is gone. Rascals. What is the value of their vote? Sometimes giving vote here, sometimes giving vote there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you think that she will again become the prime...

Prabhupāda: Any moment she can become. It is a question of maneuvering.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So there is actually a possibility. Very dangerous.

Prabhupāda: Yes. People are rascals. If induce them, "Vote," they will vote. They have no choice actually, who is good or bad. Therefore it is said, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ (SB 2.3.19). Some rascal, fools, animals, they are voting, "Indira is very good." Or "Desai is very good." So what is the value of? What they are? They are animals. You train the animals: "Dance like this," he will dance.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. Even a monkey can be made to applaud.

Room Conversation -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. Even a monkey can be made to applaud.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. So their vote, their adoration, what is the value? By whose adoration you have become big? Some monkeys and some fools, some rascals, some dogs. And formerly it was the king should be approved by saintly brāhmaṇas.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. And when the brāhmaṇas did not approve, they had the power of brahma-tejaḥ. Just like with Veṇa. Even in our own society, if someone is not doing nicely, then the others may, they come together and they say, "This person is not keeping standard." It is not that because I have power or something, one can maintain his position.

Prabhupāda: Whole thing is spoiled, vitiated. And ultimately this human form of life, it is a chance given by nature. Tathā dehāntara, you become a dog, next. Finished. And you wait millions of years again to come, take the human form. What can I do? These are nature's law. And they are also prepared. "Oh, what is the wrong there, if I become dog?" This civilization. Just imagine how much spoiled it is.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now so many charges are coming against her. (pause) Hm? She and her son are the destiny of India? A woman and a debauch? They can do whatever they like. It's a farce condition. That so-called democracy is nonsense demoncracy. And by this demoncracy, it can be done. A demon may be, if he can simply secure votes. What is the position? Without any training Formerly the destiny was by rājarṣi. Royal power, but ṛṣi, saintly person. See the character of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, Parīkṣit, Ambarīṣa. (aside:) At least, you cover some way or other with some cloth. Find out some cloth or towel, and cover it. Yes. All rogues, they are political leaders. Political leader means rogue. Nowadays, these... Here is so-called religious leader, Sai Baba, another rogue. This is Kali-yuga. (Hindi) There is no good man politician. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyāḥ (SB 1.1.10). Sumanda-matayaḥ. They have got a conception which is very, very bad, conception of religion, social, political. All condemned.

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Ram Jethmalani: We will take it in the car, because it will help us to attend a public meeting in time. I am on a thanksgiving tour of the constituency.

Indian man: We are taking him to Andheri. There is a meeting. We have kept a huge vote.

Prabhupāda: No, no, how they will take prasādam?

Girirāja: Well, I think if they could wait one or two minutes.

Prabhupāda: No, it is not... Kindly wait.

Ram Jethmalani: Yes. But here?

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not?

Ram Jethmalani: We won't eat in your presence.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Ram Jethmalani: I will be very glad to see that you have taken. Bring immediately.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Apart from, we are not concerned with politics. We are concerned with the madman. So what is this nonsense politics conducted by some big...? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). What is this politics, the democracy? Some animals voting another big animal, that's all. The leader is an animal, and the voters, they are animals. So what is the use of such politics? They remain animals. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. That is going on. You have got it?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. I don't know if this is the right volume. It's the only one that resembles. I can't read Russian, so I don't know if that's...

Prabhupāda: Is that Russian?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have one book in Russian.

Conversations -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now immediately a vote should be formed. You cannot do independently. That will not be allowed, anything. In Bengali there is a word, pañce mili kare kārya, hari duḥkhi nāhi lasa(?): "If you do something, combined together, five men, then whether you are defeated or you are victorious, there is nothing to be shameful." Hari duḥkhi nāhi lasa. So you are doing everything independent. We do not like to interfere with your business. You become angry. So that should be stopped. You cannot be allowed. You'll be (indistinct). It has no meaning. (pause) What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is a... I don't know if... You gave this to the press? This was given to the press. "Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. ISKCON Candrodaya City at Śrīdhāma Māyāpura."

Prabhupāda: What is this? Not from our letter given?

Room Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Again election, as if election will change their quality. They remain... Let them remain as rascal, and simply by election, in place of one rascal, another rascal will improve it. This is the... Let them remain rascal, but get vote. So that is... That is described in Bhāgavatam, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). The population is śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra, and they are giving vote—another big paśu. That's all. This is going on. This is democracy. The voters are paśu, and he is selecting another big paśu. This is going on. The rascals, they do not know, "If instead of a tiger, we select one lion, then what is the difference? Simply name. The tiger was president. Now the lion is the president." And both of them—animals. Where is the man, human being? This is going on. And because they are paśu, śva-viḍ-varāha, they are happy: "Now there is lion. Now the tiger is driven away.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So good milk, you give little, not at a time much. Half a cup. So I said these political rascals... Just see. Trouble. They don't want democracy. "And we'll by force remain." Where is the democracy? Indira Gandhi was to give like that. Where is democracy? Vote rejected him that his (her) election was invalid. Still, he (she) would call, "Emergency." People of Kali-yuga, unfortunate, they are controlled by these fourth-class, tenth-class men. All unhappy. Nobody is in peace. That is also punishment because they are godless. Nobody will come to hear us, follow us, and they'll be punished by these politicians. They'll corrupt.

Morning Talk -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And spoiling the chance of human life. Nature's law will go on. If somebody becomes next life a dog... There is possibility. These political leaders are like that. They are not trained up. Just like these dogs at night, they are very busy. Nobody has appointed them. But he is thinking, "I am in charge of this, watching." As soon as one dog will bark, all they, "Oh, gow! There is some important duty. Come on. Come on." And "Gow! Gow! Gow!" (laughs) And who has appointed him? They, all the politicians, are like that. Nobody likes... "Oh, oh, give me vote. Give me vote. I shall give you this arrangement." And barking amongst themselves, "Gow! Gow! Gow!" Therefore I said that the United Nations is an assembly of barking dogs. Actually that is. They cannot do anything. What they have achieved, the United Nations?

Morning Talk -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Therefore I say, get out from my kingdom. I don't care for your religion or business, but you cannot do within my kingdom." And that is king. If I have to flatter you for vote, "Yes, whatever you like, you can do. Give me vote," is that government?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: I follow this. To accept me as guru I have to flatter you—I don't follow. If you want to hear me, then you become my disciple. Otherwise go to hell. Don't want. Here many big men came. And big men means the businessmen, big... I refused "If you cannot follow the instructions..." When they are in office there is some income. Nanda, he is driven out from office after some time, at least twenty years. Then he was given post. Long time. What he has done? He has taken from Haryana government some crores of rupees and he has made his own statue, fifty thousand. He has made his own statue. (laughs) He appreciates his own activities. This is their politician. Just like our Bon Mahārāja. He has done so. He does not wait for his death. He knows, "After death everyone will forget me. So let my, let me make my own statue, a tīrtha in this āśrama." He wanted to...

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Rāmeśvara: Yes. Actually even in Los Angeles, where there is a small settlement, the entire Indian population is supporting us. They have their own societies, Gujarat, Maharastran, but all of them have voted to endorse our Ratha-yātrā and to support it with all their facilities.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they'll do. Indians and Americans, they are well-to-do. In foreign countries, everywhere, I see, Indians, their position is better than in India. In your country also. Indians in foreign countries, they get more facilities. Personally also, I could not do here in India in spite of twenty-three years. And as soon as I went to America, all facilities came to me. Of course, it took some time. That takes some... Indian, the worst government and everything is crippled, crippled. People are hampered. And the government servant, they're simply wasting time and drawing big, big salary. This is India. Very precarious condition. Fighting, party, that party, that party. Because India's original culture is very, very strong, despite all these disadvantages, they are still standing, mass of people. Otherwise India's government is worthless. Hm? What do you think?

GBC Meets with Srila Prabhupada -- May 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Another should be elected.

Satsvarūpa: By the votes of the present GBC. Then our next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you're no longer with us. We want to know how first and second initiation would be conducted.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled up, I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating ācāryas.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that called ṛtvik-ācārya?

Prabhupāda: Ṛtvik, yes.

Satsvarūpa: Then what is the relationship of that person who gives the initiation and the...

Prabhupāda: He's guru. He's guru.

Satsvarūpa: But he does it on your behalf.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, they know. And besides that, they did not exploit. Whatever enjoyment they did—within India, not that taking away the money outside India. Therefore it was very good relationship. And Indian people, they do not mind who is king. "We pay our tax. That's all." That is the attitude from the very beginning. The general people, they did not mind whether Kurus or war(?) will reign over or the Pāṇḍavas. "We don't mind. You become fight. You become king. We give our tax. That's all." So there was no fight with the subject between king and citizens. This democracy is a demon-crazy. It has no value. It is simply waste of time and effort and no feeling, demon-crazy. I do not know who introduced this. In India still there is no demon-crazy. Indian king always. Everyone is taking part in politics. What is this nonsense? It is meant for the kṣatriyas. They can fight and defend. The rascals, bhangis, chamars, and they are also in politics. Harijanas... Every one of them vote, and everyone has got the right to become king, minister. Not this. The real thing they are missing, the mode of life, the aim of life. (break)...care. Everyone is theorizing, everyone is educated, and everyone is, they're hippie. That's all.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There is little hope.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Of course, these politicians are little worried that if they make something very strict, like if they make it Hindu or something, then they will lose votes from the Christians and the Muslims.

Prabhupāda: That is their difficulty.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So they will...

Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible. But there must be some ideas.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. (pause)

Prabhupāda: Now let us go inside. (end)

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Please try to... Just try to understand. There is a story that a thief entered in a room, and the proprietor, he was in the other room. As soon as there was some sound, he inquired, "Who is there in that room?" The man said, "No, no, I am not stealing." You see? That means he is thief. So this voting board raised the question, "How they are getting visa?" In the Parliament also they are raising the same question. That means it is Communist manipulation, the Māyāpura affair. They put forward some Muhammadans because there are many Muhammadan Communist also. They wanted to give a communal color. But the whole thing is Communist plan. And their aim is to wipe out any religious movement. That is their open declaration in other Communist...

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Very carefully deal with them. They want to enter into our management.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I'm just thinking about looking... I want to read our memorandum, because as far as I remember, the life members have the right to vote in our Society. That may be one way. They may read the memorandum and see that "We can vote." Then, by doing some politics, they create some difficulty by voting and put one of these materialistic men in charge. Good reason to remain with us, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They won't do anything while you are present. It's better that you should remain with us. Then they won't be able to do anything.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa will protect you. Try.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They're very politically minded.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Why?

Gaura-govinda: Because they are guṇḍās. And these government people, they get vote and come to the power, and these pāṇḍās, they are so powerful that if they will not listen to them, they will topple down their position. They have such apprehension. And publicly also they will create some persecution among them. They have such... That Sadasiva Rath Sharma?(?) That time, Prabhupāda, when you were at Bhuvaneśvara, he came...

Prabhupāda: Ah, ha, ha.

Gaura-govinda: He was telling that when he associated with us, those pāṇḍās told him that "Oh, you have taken some money from these ISKCON people. Therefore you are favoring them." He was criticized, and he was telling me that "Now these pāṇḍās are talking about me like this."

Prabhupāda: He's also a pāṇḍā?