There is two mission: not only to give protection to the devotees, but also to kill the demons. To kill the demons, that is one side. So the devotees of Kṛṣṇa should be trained up both ways: not only to give protection to the devotees, to give them encouragement, but if need be, they should be prepared to kill the demons. That is Vaiṣṇavism. It is not cowardism. It is not cowardism. When need be. Generally, a Vaiṣṇava is non-violent. Just like Arjuna. In the beginning he was non-violent, Vaiṣṇava. He said, "Kṛṣṇa, what is the use of this fighting? Let them enjoy." So by nature he was non-violent, but he was induced by Kṛṣṇa to become violent, that "Your non-violence will not help. You become violent. You kill them. I want." So if Kṛṣṇa wants we shall be prepared to become violent also. And Kṛṣṇa, that is open secret, that paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). Two business of Kṛṣṇa, two side. So those who are devotees of Kṛṣṇa, they should be trained up both ways, they should be prepared. But generally, there is no question of becoming violent, unnecessarily.
Violence (Lectures)
Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
A sannyāsī can take charity from others. Not a kṣatriya or a gṛhastha. No. That is not allowed. "So they are kṣatriyas; they cannot take the professions of a brāhmaṇa, neither they can take the profession of a mercantile man, business man. They must have some land so that rule over, take taxation. And that is their living means.
So spare only five villages to these five brothers and settle up." But Duryodhana replied, "No, Sir. What to speak of five villages, we cannot spare even so much land which can hold the point of needle." Then the war was declared. So Vaiṣṇava, they are non-violent. But if need be, they can become violent for Kṛṣṇa's sake. This is the Battle of Kurukṣetra.
So Arjuna was a kṣatriya, trained up by Droṇācārya how to kill. This is the... Nonviolence is not the business of the kṣatriya. That is cowardice. They are taught how to become violent. Otherwise, they cannot rule over. Formerly the judgement was given by the king, immediately finished. Not go to the court and wait for the judgement for ten years. In the meantime everything is finished. Not like that. Anything, there was regularly, the king used to sit in his assembly, and all the criminals, culprits, they were judged by the king himself.
So sometimes Arjuna is accused, Bhagavad-gītā is also accused, that "There is violence. There is violence. Bhagavad-gītā is full of violence." Yes, it is full of violence. The warfield. But here the Vaiṣṇava thinking, Arjuna is thinking that it was arranged for his rājya-sukha. Yad rājya-sukha-lobhena. Lobhena. It was arranged for the satisfaction of Arjuna so that he could enjoy the kingdom and the happiness thereof. Actually, it was not so.
Then what is the difference?" They may think that "What is the difference between devotional service and ordinary work?" It looks almost equal. Therefore people misunderstand that Bhagavad-gītā is ordinary warfare, violence. But it is not that. It is arranged by Kṛṣṇa because, to fulfill His mission. His mission is paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtam (BG 4.8). That is His satisfaction, not Arjuna's satisfaction, not anyone's satisfaction. It is His plan. He comes, He descends on this planet, in this universe, just to establish the real purpose of religious life and to kill, to vanquish those who are opposing the real purpose of life, human life. That is His mission, simultaneously two things. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtam (BG 4.8).
That reference by that Professor Zaehner, that one rogue, he did by his whims, and he alleged that "After reading Bhagavad-gītā violence, he committed this violence." So did he take permission from Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's representative? But he does not know the technique. He has unnecessarily accused, committed a great offense to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. So therefore inexperienced persons, they should not try to teach Bhagavad-gītā to others because he has no knowledge. This knowledge has to be received by paramparā system. Evam paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). So simply by academic career, by knowledge of ABCD, you cannot understand Bhagavad-gītā. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, bhakto 'si priyo 'si me (BG 4.3), without becoming bhakta...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Nor do we know which is better, conquering them or being conquered by them. The sons of Dhṛtarāṣṭra, whom if we killed we should not care to live, are now standing before us on this battlefield (BG 2.6)." Purport. "Arjuna became perplexed in this connection, not knowing whether he should execute the fighting with the risk of committing unnecessarily violence, although it is the duty of the kṣatriyas, or whether he should not and prefer instead to live by begging, because if he did not conquer the enemy, begging would be the only means left for his living. There was no certainty of victory because either side might emerge victorious."
Prabhupāda: These are his causes of perplexities, how he was thinking, that has been tried to be explained. Yes, go on.
Otherwise there is no possibility. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is accepted here as the spiritual master of Arjuna, and as the spiritual master or father or teacher has got right to chastise his son or disciple... A son is never dissatisfied when father chastises. That is the etiquette everywhere. Even the father is sometimes violent, the child or the son tolerates. A typical example is Prahlāda Mahārāja. Innocent child, Kṛṣṇa consciousness child, but father torturing.
Yuddha, fighting, Arjuna was kṣatriya. It is his duty. Because here, in this material world, violence is also required. Violence. Because everyone is competitor, everyone is trying to become the Supreme, so there will be violence. Just like in your state, at the present moment, there is violence because one party is trying to become Supreme than the other. That is going on everywhere, all over the world, the struggle for existence. Everyone is trying to become supreme than the other. So there must be violence. So expecting that there will be violence, the kṣatriya class required. Just like in the state, expecting that there will be violence, therefore the police department is maintained, the military department is maintained. So you cannot avoid violence from this material world. It is useless proposal. Our Mahatma Gandhi tried to stop violence.
Viṣṇujana: 21: "O Pārtha, how can a person who knows that the soul is indestructible, unborn, eternal and immutable kill anyone or cause anyone to kill (BG 2.21)?" Purport: "Everything has its utility, and a man who is situated in complete knowledge knows how and where to apply a thing for its proper utility. Similarly violence also has its use, and how to apply violence rests with the person in knowledge. Although the justice of the peace awards capital punishment to a person condemned for murder, the justice of the peace cannot be blamed because he orders violence to another according to the codes of justice. In the Manu-saṁhitā,..."
Prabhupāda: Manu-saṁhitā, yes.
Viṣṇujana: "...the lawbook for mankind, it is supported that a murderer should be condemned to death so that in his next life he will not have to suffer for the great sin he has committed. Therefore the king's punishment of hanging a murderer is actually beneficial. Similarly when Kṛṣṇa orders fighting, it must be concluded that violence is for the supreme justice, and as such, Arjuna should follow the instruction, knowing well that such violence committed in the act of fighting for justice is not at all violence. Because at any rate the man, or rather, the soul, cannot be killed. For the administration of justice, so-called violence is permitted. A surgical operation is not meant to kill the patient, but is for his cure. Therefore the fighting to be executed by Arjuna under the instruction of Kṛṣṇa is with full knowledge, and so there is no possibility of sinful reaction."
Prabhupāda: This is the distinction between violence and nonviolence. People are very much advocate of nonviolence, but they are committing, according to their estimation, they are committing every moment violence. But from higher standard there is practically no violence and the things which apparently appear to be violence, if it is properly executed... Just like under the order of high-court judge, one body is being executed. So that is not violence. A justice of higher order is not meant for committing violence. It is justice. Similarly, when, under the direction of the supreme justice, Kṛṣṇa, anything is done, apparently, although it appears violence, it is not violence. It is justice. This is to be understood. Go on.
Devotee: "According to logicians, one has to take birth according to one's activities of life. After finishing one term of activities, one has to die to take birth for the next. In this way the cycle of birth and death is revolving, one after the other, without liberation. This cycle of birth and death does not, however, support unnecessary murder, slaughter and war unnecessarily. But at the same time, violence and war are inevitable factors in human society for keeping law and order. The Battle of Kurukṣetra, being the will of the Supreme, was an inevitable event, and to fight for the right cause is the duty of a kṣatriya. Why should he be afraid of or aggrieved at the death of his relatives since he was discharging his proper duty? He did not deserve to break the law, thereby becoming subjected to the reactions of sinful acts, of which he was so afraid. By ceasing from the discharge of his proper duty, he would not be able to stop the death of his relatives, and he would be degraded on account of his selection of the wrong path of action." 28: "All created beings are unmanifest in their beginnings, manifest in their interim state, and unmanifest again when they are annihilated. So what need is there for lamentation (BG 2.28)?" 29.
Prabhupāda: This another theory, that voidism, that before our, this manifested life, there was void, and after this manifestation is over, still there will be void. Because according to voidism, everything is manifested originally void. So Kṛṣṇa puts forward this argument that before this manifested form of life there was void, and after this manifested life, there will be void, according to the void philosophy. Then where is the cause of lamentation? There is no cause of lamentation. It was void and it is going to be void. So where is the cause of lamentation? But actually that is... Originally, it was not void. That is a Bhagavad-gītā and Vaiṣṇava theory.
So it is said that one girl is on the stage for dancing. Now while she is to dance, she's covering the head. What is the use of covering the head? You have come to dance, you dance. Similarly, in the warfield, you have gone there to fight. Where is the question of becoming nonviolent? So things should be done according to the time and atmosphere. In the warfield, there is no question of nonviolence. The war is arranged for committing violence. Where is the question of preaching there nonviolence?
Similarly, war or fighting is not always bad, provided it is done for right cause. That should be understood. So when the director is Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself, is directing, so there is no cause of stopping it. He has His plan, He knows. We cannot judge. So He's the Supreme. So that war is necessary because it is desired by the Supreme Lord. To maintain the laws of the world, as to maintain the laws and order of a state, there is violence department, the police department, the military department. Why? The government can stop it.
So kṣatriya cannot be nonviolent. It is not possible. Violence is also required to keep the social system strictly in order. Just like the government has violence department, the police department, the military department. That is required to keep up the society in order. So here Kṛṣṇa says that "You are kṣatriya; your duty is to fight.
So it has to be judged, when... Sometimes fighting is pāpam, means sinful activity, and sometimes fighting is puṇyam, pious activities. It requires the time, circumstances, on what ground the fighting was going on, on whose order the fighting was going on. These are to be studied. So violence and nonviolence. Our great leader, Mahatma Gandhi, he wanted to prove from Bhagavad-gītā, nonviolence. He started the nonviolence movement, and he wanted to support... Everyone takes advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and tries to support his view on the strength of Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore you will find so many interpretations. Everyone wants to utilize. There are more than six hundred publication, commentaries, on Bhagavad-gītā. One Dr. Rele in Bombay, he has interpreted Bhagavad-gītā as talks between a physician and a patient.
There is Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, even Śaṅkarācārya. But never said that Bhagavad-gītā is proof of nonviolence. Nonviolence is good but when there is dharma-yuddha, righteous fighting, there is no question of nonviolence. Violence is approved.
For a fighter, for a kṣatriya, to fight in the battle, either gain victory or die. No via media. Fight to the last point if you are able, then become victorious. Or die. No stoppage. All this fighting were meant like that. According to the Vedic culture, the kṣatriyas... Not the brāhmaṇas. The brāhmaṇas are not encouraged to fight or kill. No. They should remain always nonviolent. Even there is required violence, a brāhmaṇa will not kill personally. He will bring the matter to the kṣatriya, royal order. Just like Viśvāmitra.
So Kṛṣṇa is encouraging Arjuna because he is a kṣatriya. Sva-dharmam api cāvekṣya. It is his duty. The rascals should not take example that: "Kṛṣṇa encouraged killing. Therefore everyone should kill. There is no sin." Without understanding. This is the difficulty. The rascals they do not understand what is Bhagavad-gītā. They interpret for their favorable condition. That's all. Here is Bhagavad-gītā. They do not read the whole thing from ācārya—misunderstand. Bhagavad-gītā is not encouraging violence. That is not the Bhagavad-gītā's purpose. But a kṣatriya, when there is fight, dharma-yuddha, yuddha dharma... What is that, before we...? Sukhinaḥ kṣatriyāḥ pārtha labhante yuddham īdṛśam. A kṣatriya becomes very satisfied to get such fighting opportunity, yuddham īdṛśam, yadṛcchayā copapannaṁ svarga-dvāram apāvṛtam, labhante yuddham īdṛśam.
Dharmyāddhi-yuddha. There are two kinds of of fighting. Dharma-yuddha. Dharma-yuddha means right, righteous fighting, and adharma-yuddha means political. That is... One politician, he wants to keep his position, he engages the people in fighting, declares war. That is another thing. But when right thing, violence is required. So Arjuna... Kṛṣṇa is encouraging Arjuna in dharma-yuddha, not unnecessarily killing in the slaughterhouse. Do not misunderstand Kṛṣṇa. The rascals, they misunderstand. By killing, by his whims, he gives the evidence of... Another rascal, although he is learned professor, he says that because this man has killed on the basis of Bhagavad-gītā, therefore Kṛṣṇa is immoral. Just see. This is going on. Without understanding Bhagavad-gītā, even a so-called learned scholar also talking of Kṛṣṇa as immoral. He has encouraged killing. Just see. Such envious persons. And he is teaching Bhagavad-gītā. This is going on.
So this is not the fact. The fact is that there must be in the society, four classes of men. Because sometimes violence is required. Just like why government is maintaining the police force, the military force? It is required for keeping law and order. So violence is bad. That's all right. But sometimes it is required. Just like poison. Poison is bad, but sometimes it is required for administering medicine. Even poison is administered. When one's heart is... According to Āyur-vedic system, when the man's heart is almost to fail, at that time, poison is given. So the heart becomes again agitated. In the medical science also. So poison is poison, but sometimes it requires as medicine administration. Similarly, violence, killing is bad. But there is circumstances where violence is righteous, religious. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says dharmyāddhi-yuddha.
So it is the kṣatriya. Kṣatriya means who gives protection the citizens from being hurt by the irreligious person. That is called kṣatriya. Kṣat. Kṣat means injury, and tra means deliver. Just like Mahārāja Parīkṣit. When he saw that a black man Kali was going to kill a cow, so he was going to inflict injury to the cow, and immediately Mahārāja Parīkṣit took his sword, that to give protection to the cow from the injury of black man. So that violence required. Tit for tat. One who is going to commit violence unnecessarily, the king, government, should immediately take the sword and kill that person. That is government's duty. Had it been Vedic culture prevailing now, all these persons who are unnecessarily killing the cows in the slaughterhouse, they would have been killed by the king.
Why He was taking part in the battlefield? He had nothing to gain out of it personally, but why He was taking part in the battlefield? Just for the right cause. So He wanted to establish that for right cause there must be fighting. You cannot abolish violence from the world. This is the instruction of Kṛṣṇa in Bhagavad-gītā. If required, violence will be taken. And Kṛṣṇa induced Arjuna to be violent. Arjuna wanted to be nonviolent, but He wanted that "You should. You must fight. This fight is arranged by Me." So these examples.
But unfortunately he interpreted Bhagavad-gītā in his own way. Although he took Bhagavad-gītā as his life and soul, so, but he interpreted it in his own way. That is not the way of understanding Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore such a great man and such a good man... He was not only a great man; he was very good man in the worldly estimation. His character, his behavior, his dealing—everything was good. He was ideal personality. But just see. He was killed by violence. He could not stop violence.
Yes. He was killed by violence. And his idea... He wanted to make Hindu-Muslim unity in India. The British government fabricated the Hindu-Muslim riots, and lastly, at last also, their purpose was fulfilled by partition of India, Pakistan and India. Now, Mahatma Gandhi worked throughout his whole life just to make a unification of the Hindus and Muslims. Unfortunately, at last, he had to see that the Hindus and Muslims of India were divided into Pakistan and India. And his nonviolence also failed.
So, because if we do not follow the right person, mahājana—mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186)—then however I may be great in the estimation of the innocent public, that is wrong path. That is wrong path. Therefore the right thing is to follow the succession. Now, we have to follow the principle which Kṛṣṇa sets. Kṛṣṇa is not advocating, I mean to say, nonviolence. You cannot eradicate violence from this world.
...one is checked from doing his rightful duty. That is real violence. In some years ago at Jhansi I was, not in the sannyāsa days. I went there, and, by invitation of some friends, and they wanted to give me some lectures. That was Gandhi's birthday, and they asked me to speak on some nonviolence. So I spoke that violence means to check a person from the discharge of his duties. That is violence. That was my viewpoint.
Yes. Now, every man has got his prime duty of life. If that duty is checked, that is violence. So I wanted to place, and that is a fact from Vedic literature, that human life is meant for realization of God consciousness or reestablishing his relationship, lost relationship, with God. This is the claim of every human being.
If any civilization, that is checking people's progress in the matter of self-realization, that is the most virulent type of violence because people are being checked from the natural advancement of life. This human life is the point when one has to end all the miseries of material existence. That is the aim of human life. If people are not educated to that light, if people are misled in other ways, that is the greatest violence committed to the population. And according to the scripture, they are called ātma-han. Ātma-han means the greatest violence committed to the population. And according to the scripture, they are called ātma-han. Ātma-han means suicidal, suiciding.
We have to take advantage of this favorable condition to end this miserable material existence. And if anyone does not take the advantage, then he is committing suicide. That is the version of Bhāgavata. Or... Either he is personally committing suicide or any civilization which is checking this process, that is also violent, the most virulent type of violence, because people are misled. So this is the idea of the scriptures, that human life should be utilized only for spiritual self-realization.
Yes. I told that "You do not know bhakti-yoga. The two greatest fights in India, Rāmāyaṇa fight and Mahābhārata fight, was conducted by Vaiṣṇavas, Arjuna and Hanumān. Therefore you do not know what is bhakti-yoga," I told him. The bhakta, for Kṛṣṇa's sake, he can do anything. But by nature, he's perfect. He does not commit any violence. Just like see Arjuna's character. He was so much harassed by the opposite party, his wife was insulted, his kingdom was, I mean to say, by unlawful means taken away, he was sent to forest for thirteen years.
Just like I am repeatedly mentioned here that in our country Mahatma Gandhi, he had his philosophy of non-violence, and he wanted to prove non-violence from Bhagavad-gītā. But Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the warfield. Bhagavad-gītā is spoken when Arjuna was in problem, whether to fight or not to fight. That is the, I mean the, background of Bhagavad-gītā. Now, if anyone wants to prove that Bhagava..., in Bhagavad-gītā there is non-violence, then you, you, you something else. Violence is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. So similarly, we should not try to under... Yes! We should not try to understand Bhagavad-gītā according to my viewpoint of view. I must understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is presented by Kṛṣṇa.
Anyway... Then Śaṅkarācārya came. Śaṅkarācārya wanted... Because by the propagation of Lord Buddha, whole India became Buddhist. And Śaṅkarācārya wanted to establish Vedas again. So they were temporary necessities, for certain reason. Because people were addicted so much in violence, in killing the animals, therefore Buddha philosophy was needed. Again, this Buddha philosophy was driven out. The Śaṅkara, impersonal philosophy was established. But again, the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya and other Vaiṣṇava ācāryas.. . At last, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. They established that brahma satyam means brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). Both, three, Absolute Truth.
Just like Arjuna, when he first refused to work, refused to fight, that "My dear Kṛṣṇa, it is not possible for me to fight with my relatives, brothers. I am not going to fight," but from material estimation, this conclusion, this decision of Arjuna, is very good, very good. So materially, from material standing of, standpoint of view, that he is not going to commit nonviolence, violence—he is nonviolent—he's very good man. But from spiritual point of view, it is not so. From spiritual point of view, it is not so. So one has to see. Simply by external features, that one is working and one is not working, that we cannot... What is the standard of work?
Oh. So war is not always impious. Do you understand? Sometimes war, fighting... So far, so far the Vedic conception of life is concerned, there are four classes, four classes: the intelligent class, the administrator class, the mercantile class... Not only Vedic religion, this division is all over the world. There are four classes of men. So for administrative class of men, it is a duty to protect the weak. Sometimes law and order required, violence. Just like the government maintains military, police force because sometimes they are required. So when government employs some police force, some military force, that does not means impious. That is required. Similarly, fighting or violence is not always impious. But a responsible person, he does not take violence unnecessarily. He considers things very nicely, and when there is no other alternative than to use violence, then he uses violence. Just like the government sometimes takes violence upon the citizens. It is not the objective of the government to...
But if one wants to understand something about Bhagavad-gītā, about the spiritual movement, he may consult me. Therefore, the society must be divided into four divisions. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). There must be a class of men very intelligent, brahminical class. They should also work just like brāhmaṇa. The kṣatriya, they should work just like kṣatriya. Because there will be some violence. Kṣat. So one who defends or protects from injury, that person also should be there in the society, kṣatriya. So on this basis the society must be divided.
Just like we have seen a practical example of Mahatma Gandhi in India. Now, he started a movement, non-violent, non-cooperation. The movement, the fight was declared against the powerful British Empire, just see. And he determined that "I shall fight with the Britishers non-violent. Without any weapon," because India was dependent, there was no weapon. And several times it was attempted armed revolution. But these Britishers and more powerful, they cut down. So Gandhi, he invented this method, that "I shall fight with the Britishers, even they become violent, I shall not become violent. So I shall get world sympathy." So this was his plan.
Just see, a sparrow is trying to dry up the ocean. (laughs) This is called determination. Just like our Gandhi. He declared war against the Britishers. War is that non-violent, noncooperation. You see? But the determination was there. That "I must drive away the Britishers." And he did it. And what is the weapon? Nonviolence. "All right, you fight, you kill me, I shall not attack you." You see? He became, what is that? Determination. People laughed. "Gandhi is declaring war with the Britishers, so powerful, British Empire." And actually after the Britishers lost India, they lost all Empire. Because that was the jewel of British Empire. They lost all possession in the Far East, they lost possession in Egypt, they lost possession on Suez Canal, everything lost. So determination is so nice thing. Go on.
Indian man (4): Swamiji, most of our Hindus accept Lord Kṛṣṇa as our Supreme Being, as God. Yet in the Bhagavad-gītā, Arjuna won't fight his brothers, but Lord Kṛṣṇa encouraged this, to fight his own brothers, to kill his own brothers, to shed blood. Isn't this condoning violence? Yet Hinduism doesn't condone violence. Can you explain why Lord Kṛṣṇa encourages Arjuna to fight his own blood?
Prabhupāda: If you can question the high-court judge why he is ordering somebody to be hanged, then what will be the answer? The high-court judge orders somebody to be hanged and somebody to take degree for one lakh of rupees. Is there injustice? It is the law. The Supreme Lord has to execute the law. So there is no mistake. As there is no mistake in the judgment of the high-court, similarly, what to speak of Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord. There is necessity. The government, in order to keep law and order, there is violence also. The police sometimes commit violence, the military force. So in order to keep whole thing in balance, sometimes violence is required, and that is not to our whims but at the decision of the Supreme Lord.
To become humble, meek, ahiṁsā, non-violence, śānti, tolerance. In this way you have to make progress. The other items will be described by and by. We have to... Yes. Tomorrow we shall describe. Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
So we have been discussing for the last few days about the process of knowledge. So we have discussed already amānitvam, humbleness. Amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā (BG 13.8). Ahiṁsā, non-violence. So ahiṁsā kṣāntiḥ, tolerance, ārjavam, simplicity. These things we have already discussed.
Just like part and parcel of my body is always serving, similarly, we, being part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, our only business is to be engaged in devotional service of Kṛṣṇa. That is mukti. Svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). So here Kṛṣṇa is encouraging Arjuna, mā śucaḥ: "Don't think that because I am engaging you to fight, don't think that you are demonic person." Because generally, people take, when one fights, he is considered to be violent demon.
So here also the same example can be cited, that Kṛṣṇa says personally, mā śucaḥ sampadaṁ daivīm abhijāto 'si bhārata. My dear Arjuna, don't be worried that you are in the demonic situation. Your situation is daivika, godly. Why it is godly? Because although Arjuna was fighting, it was violent, because the fight was on account of Kṛṣṇa, therefore it is good. Otherwise how you can support? He was engaged in killing business and it is called daivī sampat.
"My dear Pāṇḍava, Arjuna, don't be afraid." Because as soon as Kṛṣṇa said that daivī sampad vimokṣāya, nibandhāyāsurī matā, so, nibhandāya āsurī matā, "I am fighting now." This is the business of āsurī. "I am now violent." So he became afraid that "Then I am also an āsurī sampat." That Kṛṣṇa immediately said, "No, no, no, don't be afraid." Mā śucaḥ. Mā śucaḥ sampadaṁ daivīm. "My dear Arjuna, you don't be afraid. Don't, don't be worried." Why? "Because you have no āsurī." "I am fighting." "You are fighting for Me; therefore you are not asura." Those who are fighting for their sense gratification, they're asuras, but if need be fighting for, for cause, right cause... Of course, everyone thinks right cause; therefore it should be confirmed. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna fought when he understood that "This fighting is right cause, it is sanctioned by Kṛṣṇa." Then it is right cause. You cannot make your right cause. You can not formulate that "This is right cause." That is mental concoction. You must get it sanctioned. That is a principle of daivī life, divine life.
Just like in our country, Mahatma Gandhi, he also, he was here. He gave so much service. He gave service in India. But what was the return? The return was he was killed by his countrymen. This is the return, practical. The return was that he wanted to establish nonviolence, and his countrymen proved that nonviolence cannot go on—"You must die by violence." This is material world, that however you may render service to your family, to your country, to your friend, to anyone, you will never be satisfied. Rather, when he is dissatisfied he will kill you. This is material world. So my occupational duty is to render service to somebody, but I cannot satisfy that somebody. This is material world. You go on giving service, but you will never be able to satisfy to the person to whom you are giving service. This is material world.
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
When you want to see... Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. Dhruva Mahārāja was a young boy, he was insulted by his stepmother. Son of a kṣatriya, they were very proud family, even a five-year-old boy could not tolerate the insult. A kṣatriya cannot tolerate insult, immediately sword. Not that nonviolence. Nonviolence is not for kṣatriya. Therefore it is said, varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ—you cannot stop violence. There must be violence, but kṣatriyas, they know how to use violence. That is different thing. So he was insulted and he went to his mother, "Stepmother has insulted me like this," he began to cry in front of his mother. She said,"How can I help you, my dear boy? Your father does not care for me, even like the maidservants." So he was determined to retaliate. So his mother advised, that "If you can meet Kṛṣṇa, or God, He can help you." "Where is God?" "Yes, I have heard that people go to the forest to search out God." This is eagerness. And Nārada Muni, because Kṛṣṇa is within, He is seeing that this boy is very eager. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). Kṛṣṇa, as soon as He sees that you are serious, He will send you the help of a spiritual master.
"I shall not kill my grandfather, my nephews, my brother on the other side. If they die, I shall be unhappy. So what is the use of killing them?" These are all sense gratification, so-called nonviolence. A devotee does not know what is violence and non-violence. He wants to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That's all. They do not know what is morality or immorality. They want to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Just like the gopīs. At dead of night, they went to Kṛṣṇa. This is immorality. But they did not know what is morality or immorality. They must go to Kṛṣṇa. Saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13).
He did not like to fight. He wanted to be a very nice, nonviolent gentleman. But Kṛṣṇa was inducing him, "You fight." Then later on, he agreed: "Yes, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73)." This is ānukūlyena. "Kṛṣṇa wants it. Doesn't matter whether it is violent or nonviolent, Kṛṣṇa wants it. I must do it." This is called ānukūlyena, not against the desire of Kṛṣṇa, but in favor of Kṛṣṇa. This is called anukūla, anukūla-sevā. So ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā (CC Madhya 19.167). That is first-class bhakti. Not that "If I like it, then I shall do it." That is not anukūla. That is pratikūla. You like or not like, that doesn't matter. Kṛṣṇa likes it,; you must do it. That is ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam.
They do not know. I was just talking with Guru dāsa. Sometimes in the year 1950 or '51 I went to Jhansi, and it happened so that the..., the friend in whose house I was staying, he was a leader, and there was a meeting for Gandhi's disappearance day. So I was asked to speak. At that time I was not sannyāsī. I was asked to speak something on nonviolence. So I explained that violence means if you have got some right and if somebody by force stops you to utilize your right, that is violence. That is violence. I have got some right to take something, so, or enter in some room, and, if somebody checks me by force, that "You cannot enter," that is violence and it is criminal.
So this is actually India's culture. So I explained in that meeting that "After many, many births, one is given the opportunity to take birth in this holy land of Bhāratavarṣa. Unfortunately, you people, you are, by force, making them materialist. They had the opportunity to take advantage of the contribution of great sages, ṛṣis, to study and to become a successful human being, but you are, by force, dragging them from that attitude to this materialistic way of life. This is violence. This is violence. What you are speaking of, nonsense, nonviolence? This is violence." So about twenty years ago I was thinking like that. So actually, people are being killed not only in India, but outside also, by these blind leaders. They do not know how to lead people, how to make them happy, how to make them successful in their human form of life.
But there are others also. A kṣatriya, he is expert in the military science, how to kill. So the killing art is there. You cannot make it null and void by advocating nonviolence. No. That is required. Violence is also a part of the society. Just like here is some itching sensation. This is violence. That is required for the comfort. So similarly, Arjuna was kṣatriya. He knew the art of killing, and still, Kṛṣṇa is... Kṛṣṇa also, He appeared as a kṣatriya in the dynasty of kṣatriyas. Vāsudeva, son of Vasudeva. He also knew the art of killing. That is also one of the part of His business. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7), paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). So vināśa-requires violence.
So we cannot decry violence. That is also required. Kṛṣṇa was speaking Bhagavad-gītā, the science of God, in the battlefield of Kurukṣetra. We cannot condemn violence. That is not possible. But there is no violence in the spiritual world. That is a fact. Violence is only in the material world. Therefore when Kṛṣṇa desired to fight...
That is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. So everything is there. Otherwise, imperfectness. So as there is ādi-rasa, Kṛṣṇa is enjoying with the gopīs and Rādhārāṇī. Similarly, He enjoys with bībhatsa-rasa, vīra-rasa, killing. Killing is also vīra-rasa. Because He is the reservoir of all rasas. So janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). So do not think that this violence or fighting is bad. No. Nothing is bad when it is utilized for Kṛṣṇa. And nothing is good when it is utilized for your sense gratification. Everything is bad.
So bhagavān ambujekṣaṇaḥ. Although He's angry, although He's the Supreme Lord, Bhagavān... He's not so-called nonviolent. How nonviolent? Nonviolent or violent. Violence is also one of the qualifications of God. Especially in political matters, when the kṣatriyas are dealing, there is always violence. Without violence, kṣatriya has no meaning. Kṣat, kṣat means injury. Trāyate. Kṣatriya's duty is to save the citizen from being injured by others.
If somebody says we are diplomats, poli..., yes, we are pure politicians. What is pure politicians? Politics requires violence. So annihilate the demons and give protection. The politics means two things. The state, government, what is that? Government gives protection to the good citizen, and those who are rogues, punish them. Law and order. Two things are there: maintenance and law and order. So similarly, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness is also the same thing. But so far we are concerned, because we are not in political power... Otherwise we have, would have followed the principles of Kṛṣṇa.
What is religious fight? Religious fight means you have got right to kill your aggressor. If somebody takes your property, if somebody sets fire in your house, if somebody kidnaps your wife, or somebody is trying to kill you, they are called aggressor. So aggressor should be killed immediately. It is not that somebody has become an aggressor, and if I say, "Now I have become a Vaiṣṇava, I'll not be violent. I shall tolerate. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has taught us to be tolerant like the tree or the grass. So I shall become tolerant. Let him do." Just like Gandhi used to say. Somebody questioned him that "If somebody comes and violates the chastity of your daughter in your presence, what will you do?" He said, "I shall remain nonviolent." But that is not śāstric injunction. This is foolishness.
If somebody is aggressor, he must be killed immediately. Dharma-yuddha. Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja is thinking that "Although there was fight, the fight was between our own men, my brother, my nephews, my grandfather. So they are family members. I have killed them for my kingdom." He is thinking in that way. He is a pious man. Violence is required. We don't say nonviolence. Just as Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He gave us the instruction, tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā: "One should be tolerant, forbearing like the tree, like the grass." Amāninā mānadena: "One should give respect to others. In this way one should chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra." Because in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, there will be so many aggressors. The nature is so cruel. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja, a five-years-old boy. His only fault was that he was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, and the father was aggressor, giving him trouble so many ways. So we must be prepared.
Therefore as there is danger... Suppose Caitanya Mahāprabhu has taught us that "Be tolerant," but not that where violence is required we should be tolerant. No. Just like while Nityānanda Prabhu was injured by Jagāi and Mādhāi, He wanted to immediately kill him. Similarly, nonviolence does not mean that in right causes also you will remain nonviolent. No. You do not attack anybody unnecessarily. You do not kill unnecessarily animal even, not even an ant. You should be nonviolent by your nature. But when there is aggression, there are enemies, the śāstra says, dharma-yuddha. That is dharma-yuddha.
You are killing. This is not intentional. You do not know. Therefore in a Vedic system there is prescription, pañca-sūnā-yajña. Pañca means five, and sūnā means bhūta-hatyā, or killing animals, sūnā. Striya-sūnā-pāna-dyūta (SB 1.17.38). Sūnā. Sūnā means violence. So we prohibit these four kinds of sinful life: killing of animals and illicit sex... Striya, sūnā, and... Pañca-sūnā. Yes... Striya-sūnā-pāna. Pāna means intoxicants, and dyūta means gambling.
Pradyumna: Translation: "Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira was intelligent enough to understand the influence of the age of Kali, characterized by increasing avarice, falsehood, cheating and violence throughout the capital, state, home and among individuals. So he wisely prepared himself to leave home, and he dressed himself accordingly." (SB 1.15.37)
Prabhupāda: So Yudhiṣṭhira, anyone, any experienced man can see how things are going on. One has to possess such perfect eyes. When these things are in progressive way... What is this? Lobha, greediness; anṛta, falsehood; jihma, means diplomacy; and hiṁsa, violence or jealousy. When these things will increase, one should know that the influence of Kali-yuga is increasing.
Because he was emperor, so anyone who is doing wrong irreligiously, go there and fight. That was fight. That is called dharma-yuddha. Just like you can maintain police force, military force. What for? Whenever there is outlaws, go and punish them. That should be the system. That should be... Military force is required, violence is required, when there is irreligion. Then must be, they must be made religious. And because such government was there... That we have discussed. During Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's time, everything was peaceful, adayovyadha(?)... Even people did not suffer from excessive heat, excessive cold. This is also another punishment. Just like disease is punishment, similarly, excessive heat and excessive cold is also punishment. That is not very good. But Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja's time was such, they did not feel. People did not feel. It is nature's punishment. Just like I was proposing to go to, what is that place? Florida, Florida,
Kṣatriya means one who gives protection. Just like when there is attack in a country, the king or the president gives protection to the citizens by killing the enemies. So his business is to give protection to the citizens. So it may be sometimes by killing others, he gives protection. We have discussed many times the violence and nonviolence. Non... These are contradictory terms, but when these two contradictory things are found in saintly persons, we must know they are all the same, absolute. And what to speak of when these actions are found in Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the absolute nature.
You see? So andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Just like one blind man is speaking other blind men, "Please follow me. I shall lead you to the right path." "But you are blind yourself, and we are also blind. What will be the help?" But no, they will follow. In our country, Gandhi promised that "I shall give you independence in one year, if you follow me—non-violence, non-cooperation." People followed, but it took thirty years. But actually, that is not independence. So these politicians, especially, they mislead us. Not only politicians, the so-called yogis, so-called... So many things. Real leader is Kṛṣṇa. So if we surrender to Kṛṣṇa as Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), "Give up all other occupation, duties. Simply just surrender unto Me." Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ. "Don't hesitate. Do it." Kṛṣṇa is personally canvassing. He's so kind. He comes personally. He speaks the whole truth in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Kṛṣṇa says, "Give it to Me." That is bhakti. Nothing is stopped, but you cannot do any unlawful. Bhakti does not mean you can do anything unlawful. But ultimate issue: whatever you do, if it is for Kṛṣṇa, that is rightful. Just like materially, Arjuna was trying to become very gentleman, nonviolent, Arjuna: "Kṛṣṇa, I am not going to fight." People very much appreciate, "Just see, Arjuna is so gentle, he is trying to become nonviolent, and Kṛṣṇa is inducing him to become violent." This is the vision of the demons. They do not know, whatever Kṛṣṇa desires, that is rightful. Kṛṣṇa wanted Arjuna to fight. That is rightful. And Arjuna wanted to become nonviolent.
Pradyumna: (reading) "An unchaste woman is very easily carried away by paramours, and it sometimes happens that her husband is violently killed by her paramours. If the yogi gives his mind a chance and does not restrain it, his mind will give facility to enemies like lust, anger and greed, and they will doubtlessly kill the yogi." (SB 5.6.4)
Wife was insulted, then kingdom was taken by betting, by gambling. In this way they were put into so many troublesome position. Still, when there was actual fight, because Arjuna was a Vaiṣṇava, devotee, he said, "Let them enjoy. I am not going to fight." This is Vaiṣṇava. Ordinary man would have taken very seriously, "Oh, these people have insulted like that. They have taken our... Yes, we must fight." So Vaiṣṇava by naturally, by nature, is not violent. But if it requires, if Kṛṣṇa directs that "You must fight," they fight. That is Vaiṣṇava. When Arjuna declined to fight, and then Kṛṣṇa had to instruct him about the whole instruction of Bhagavad-gītā just to induce him to fight. And at last, Arjuna was asked by Kṛṣṇa, "Now what is your decision? I have told you everything. What do you decide? Whatever you decide, now you do. I have finished My instruction."
And as far as possible, they are followed by different followers. So the same thing is confirmed here: "My dear King, if somebody does not atone for his sinful activities..." Sinful activities function in three ways. Here it is stated. What is that? Mana-ukta-pāṇibhiḥ. Mana-ukta-pāṇibhiḥ: by mind, by activities of the mind, and by activities of our words, and by activities of our senses. And if I hurt you by harsh word, then that is also a sin. And when actually commit violence or do something with my hands or legs or something, that is certainly sinful. So we can commit sins in three ways: mind and words and karma, by action. Thinking, feeling and willing and acting. Therefore a svāmī or gosvāmī means who has control over the function of the mind, of the words, and of the activities of the senses. There is definition. "One who can control the tongue, one who can control the mind, one who can control the words, one who can control the belly, one who can control the generative organ, he is svāmī." And pṛthiviṁ sa śiṣyāt: "He is allowed to create disciples all over the world."
So killing is not allowed in any religious principle. Anyone who is killing, he's not considered in the human society. You cannot kill. The... Lord Buddha's also principle is ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ, no killing. Lord Jesus Christ also says, "Thou shalt not kill." In our Bhagavad-gītā it is also said, amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā (BG 13.8). Ahiṁsā means not to become violent, not to kill.
So it is intelligence. You are drinking the blood in a different way, produced by nature with more vitamin values and more taste and more gentleman. Why should you kill one cow and try to drink the blood? The blood is there already, but in a different form, without any violence. And we have seen it. It is practical experience that if the cows are assured they would not be killed, they will give you double milk. That we have experience. And it is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that siṣicuḥ... We have not got here the verse. The purport is that during Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's time, the cows were so happy and jubilant that from their milk bag always drop milk, so that the pasturing ground became muddy with milk.
One medical man he has interpreted Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa is a physician and Arjuna is a patient. And he has tried to explain through Bhagavad-gītā all anatomic physiology, not this. Gandhi, he wanted to prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā is being spoken in the battlefield, full of violence, and he is trying to prove that the Bhagavad-gītā is nonviolent. These are all artificial attempts. These explanations will never give you the real light from Bhagavad-gītā. You try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is. (break)
So Prahlāda Mahārāja, although he is such a great devotee, he says that kiṁ toṣṭum arhati sa me harir ugra-jāteḥ: "Oh, I am born of a father, demon." So naturally everyone presents himself in relationship with father. If your father is American, then you say, "I am American." If my father is Indian, I will say, "I am Indian." Similarly, he is born of a demon father, so he is presenting himself that "I am a demon. I am born of a demon father." Ugra-jāteḥ. Ugra-jāteḥ means... Ugra means violent. Demons are always violent. So "I am born of a violent father.
Prahlāda Mahārāja is induced to pray Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva to pacify. He was in violent feature. So he's requesting, "My dear Lord," sarve hy amī vidhi-karās tava sattva-dhāmno. "Now, all these demigods, they are Your assistants, and they are situated in transcendental position." Sattva-dhāmno. Sattvaṁ viśuddhaṁ vāsudeva-śabditam. Our situations are differently calculated. Not that every one of us is situated on the same platform. On the material platform, we are situated in three different positions: sattva-raja-tama. Sattva means goodness, raja means passion, and tama means ignorance or darkness. So, so long we are in the material platform, the highest positional situation is in the modes of goodness.
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
But after teaching Bhagavad-gītā to Arjuna, Kṛṣṇa inquired from him, "Now what is your position? Your illusion is over or not? What you have decided to do now?" He said, "Yes, my illusion is over." Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). "What You are saying, I shall act." This is Bhagavad-gītā understanding. Sarva-dharmān parityaja mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. Then Arjuna went against his first decision. In the beginning he was nonviolent. But he changed. He become violent. Violent means he fought. He was a warrior. He was kṣatriya.
Yes. Sometimes we are asked that "Why Kṛṣṇa induced Arjuna to become violent?" So then so many so-called scholars, they criticize Kṛṣṇa, but they do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is absolute. In whichever way He acts, it is the same thing. God is good. It does not mean when He fights in the Battlefield of Kurkṣetra He becomes bad. No. He's still good. That is the conception of God: absolute. He can do anything and anything.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
Whatever is there, it is already tested, it is already experimented. You have simply to accept. Don't try to argue. This is acceptance of Vedānta-sūtra. Not that "Oh, I have got to serve some purpose, political purpose. So I'll have to prove from Bhagavad-gītā there is nonviolence." In our country, Gandhi, he was supposed to be a great student of Bhagavad-gītā. He wanted to prove that there... (break) ...by violence. So he was killed. How you can prove Bhagavad-gītā nonviolence? There is tacit order, "You must fight. The other party is impious. So you must fight." These are the injunction. You cannot change. That is not Vedānta-sūtra.
That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's stressing, that gauṇa-vṛttye yebā bhāṣya karila ācārya. Therefore each and every aphorism and verse of Vedānta-sūtra has been indirectly interpreted by the Śārīraka-bhāṣya. Such interpretation, if somebody hears, then his future is doomed. Just like our Gandhi, he wanted to prove, from Bhagavad-gītā, nonviolence. The Bhagavad-gītā is being preached in the battlefield, and it is completely violence. How he can prove? Therefore he is dragging the meaning out of his own con... It is very troublesome, and anyone who will read such interpretation, he is doomed. He is doomed because the Bhagavad-gītā is meant for awakening your Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If that is not awakened, then it is useless waste of time. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu embraced the brāhmaṇa who was illiterate, but he took the essence of Bhagavad-gītā, the relationship between the Lord and the devotee. Therefore, unless we take the real, I mean to say, essence of any literature, it is simply waste of time.
This is giving the best example, typical example. Everyone. We are attached to the love of this material world, but we are all disappointed. From everyone's experience, you'll find. Everyone is disappointed. Both sides, the lover and the beloved, both sides. You have got very good experience in this country. They marry, again they are divorced, because disappointed. So this is going on. Therefore our love has to be reposed to Kṛṣṇa.
Nonviolent noncooperation, that was his, I mean to say, theory. He wanted to get away all kinds of nonviolence from the world, all kinds of violence from the world. So he wanted to prove from Bhagavad-gītā nonviolence. But how you can prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā? Because Bhagavad-gītā is being spoken in the violent battlefield. But because he wanted to prove nonviolence, therefore he says, "Oh, these Pāṇḍavas means this. This Kṛṣṇa means this. This chariot means this.
Festival Lectures
So our only request is, with folded hands and begging you, so many flatterings, we simply request... Dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ pādayor nipatya. This is our process. We are not very violent pushing. Now, you see our procession came, so many, for three hours. There was no violence. And the police department of your country, they very much appreciate because they have got experience whenever there is some procession, there is violence.
Arrival Addresses and Talks
Prabhupāda: "Window-breaking."
Brahmānanda: Yes, violent.
Prabhupāda: "Window-breaking crowd." We are not that. (break) Let them have this O'Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Brahmānanda: Yes, O'Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Suggest the establishment manager.
General Lectures
So just like it is the duty of the police department or law order department to protect the citizens, and sometimes violence is required, similarly, the kṣatriyas also were meant for that purpose, and they were entrusted with the administration of the government. So when Arjuna decided not to fight, Kṛṣṇa instructed him this Bhagavad-gītā. It is very interesting. He said that "You do not deviate from your duty.
So what Kṛṣṇa wants, that is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). Therefore we are not propagating the philosophy of ahiṁsā, or nonviolence, because in some way or other, there is violence, either you take fruit or grain or animal.
Guest: Under what conditions would Kṛṣṇa sanction violence?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Satsvarūpa: Under what conditions would Kṛṣṇa sanction violence?
Prabhupāda: Violence? Kṛṣṇa does not sanction violence, but if there is absolute necessity, then violence is required. Yes. Kṛṣṇa wanted to mitigate the misunderstanding of two groups of cousin-brothers. So Kṛṣṇa personally induced, "All right, they are, your brothers are kṣatriyas. Kṣatriyas, they cannot do any business or take the profession of a brāhmaṇa.
The government has two department—criminal and civil. Civil department is controlled by the śāstra, law codes, and the criminal department is governed by the śastra, weapons. So this is the rule from time immemorial. Both things are required. Sometimes violence required, police force required for the unruly persons. They'll not care for the śāstra, don't care for śāstra, but you care for the śastra. So two things are there.
Madhudviṣa: Sir, listen, we'll have questions and answers in just a minute if you'd like to be patient.
Man (1): Knives...
Madhudviṣa: If you'd like to be patient for a second, we'll have questions and answers and we can ask about the philosophy that we're talking about. (more yelling from audience) The people that want to listen in an orderly fashion are waiting to hear the meeting continue, and those who want to ask questions can please have respect for them and let us continue with the lecture, and then we'll have questions and answers afterwards.
Prabhupāda: What is this?
Madhudviṣa: They are simply talking about violence.
Prabhupāda: They are not prepared to hear. So let them question and answer.
Madhudviṣa: So our spiritual...
Prabhupāda: You can answer.
Madhudviṣa: Our spiritual master has traveled about ten thousand miles to come and speak to you. We did have... We've not come here to bribe anyone to come and listen to him. We have rented this hall. We have rented this hall here and we have invited people cordially to come and listen as representatives of the intelligentsia of Australia. Now if the intelligentsia of Australia cannot sit for half an hour and listen to a gentleman speak about love of God, it does not speak very well for you. We are simply not asking for disturbance. We are not asking for violence. We will meet violence with violence. We are not artificially pacifists. We are asking you to listen like gentlemen. We have come here in good will. We have come here not to cause any disturbance. So we ask you please to have that much respect for our spiritual master. Now at this time, if there is any question about Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy... Not about fighting. We can go on the street and fight. We can solve everything out there. We have come here to speak about spiritual matters. If you want to hear about spiritual matters, let's speak together like brothers and sisters. Let's not cause a disturbance. I have an ego; you have an ego. If you do something to flip off my ego, I may get mad. If I do something to flip out your ego, you get mad. So we'll go out into the street and settle it like cats and dogs? No. We're not here at this university to act like that. We're supposed to have raised above that platform. So please, we ask you to present sober questions to our spiritual master. Yes, sir?
Young man (2): I'm a Christian. I follow Jesus. What is your spiritual master in relation to Jesus, and do you see Jesus as just another prophet like...
Madhudviṣa: The question was, this man is a follower of Lord Jesus Christ, and he would like to know what our opinion is of Jesus Christ.
Prabhupāda: We respect Jesus Christ as you do. Because he is the representative of God, son of God, and we are also speaking of God, so we respect him with our greatest veneration.
Philosophy Discussions
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact. You are thinking that this man is, so how he is good? He is limited in his power. He may think of his brother, of his nation, of his society but what does he do of other living beings? So how he can be good? A good man, speaking even a man like Gandhi, he is a good man, but when he was approached that stop cow killing, he could not do anything. Although he is advocating non-violence but he, the violence committing in the slaughterhouse, thousands and thousands of animals being killed, violence, what did he do? So how he is good man? Nobody can be good man.
Prabhupāda: Just like in the Western countries, the social (indistinct), the killing of animals—it is taken not bad. In other societies it is taken as bad. How is that? There are two contradictory societies. One society says that nonviolence is nice, better, but another society says no, violence is better. Then how will I (indistinct)? Which society is good, which society bad? How you will decide?
Śyāmasundara: He says that since capital is unnecessary for production, that the capitalists should be overthrown violently and the workers of the world should unite and overthrow the capitalists.
Prabhupāda: But the difficulty is—that we have already discussed (indistinct), today I am (indistinct), tomorrow I am capitalist. Because my tendency is, as soon as I get some money, I shall become master. That is the tendency. That we have already discussed. Today one man is very poor man, so he is in favor of his brothers who are poor, working, but as soon as he gets a little money, immediately he becomes the capitalist. Then he is imitating the same way as the capitalist.
Prabhupāda: That is a different thing. But in India all the authorities, all personalities, unless you accept Vedas, you are called nāstika. Therefore Buddha philosophy was driven away, Caitanya Mahāprabhu veda nā māniyā bauddha haila nāstika. Simply Lord Buddha says, "I don't care for your Vedas." Lord Buddha wanted to preach nonviolence, but in the Vedic literature there is violence. There is violence. Just like Gandhi wanted to prove from Bhagavad-gītā nonviolence. Where is nonviolence there? Where is that nonviolence? Kṛṣṇa is inducing Arjuna to fight, to become violent. So how can you prove there is nonviolence?
Hayagrīva: He says, uh... (break) He says..., this is, this is Augustine writing. He said, "Some people try to stretch the prohibition 'Thou shalt not kill' to cover beasts and cattle and make it unlawful to kill any such animal, but then why not include plants and anything rooted in and feeding on the soil? After all, things like this, though devoid of feeling, are said to have life and therefore can die and so be killed by violent treatment."
Prabhupāda: No, that is not Vedic philosophy. Vedic philosophy admits that one living entity is the food for another living entity. That is natural.
Hayagrīva: He believed, like Plato, in an enlightened monarch ruling, but in certain cases Aquinas believed that it was not necessary for men to obey...
Hari-śauri: (aside:) It wasn't very much, just, uh... I can... Shall I cut another one?
Prabhupāda: No.
Hayagrīva: ...that it was not necessary for man to obey human laws if these laws were opposed to human welfare and were...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: ...instruments of violence.
Prabhupāda: This is very good. First of all they must know what is the welfare of the human being. Unfortunately, with advancement of so-called material education, the human society is missing the aim of life. The aim of life is declared openly in the Vedānta philosophy, athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the aim of human life. In the Bhāgavata it is said, jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. The life is meant for understanding the Absolute Truth. That is the aim of human life. The whole Vedic civilization is based on this principle. But on account of deviating from the original Vedic civilization, they have dedicated the human form of life in so many unnecessary scientific discoveries, that discovery, which will not give him any relief to the human society.
Hayagrīva: Speaking of the body and the soul, he says "The body, insofar as it is an uncultivated piece of external existence, is inadequate to the spirit. The spirit must first take possession of it in order to make it its animated tool. But in reference to other people, I am essentially free even as to my body. It is but a vain sophistry that says that the real person, the soul, cannot be injured by maltreatment offered to one's body. Violence done to the body is really done to me." Since the body, he says, is the tool of the soul...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: ...if you injure the body of a person, you are actually injuring the person...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: ...because you are injuring his property.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But why the Christians killing?
Hayagrīva: How is that?
Prabhupāda: Why the Christians are killing animals?
Hayagrīva: Yes. If that's the case, why mistreat the animals, animal bodies?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Hayagrīva: The animals have no right to life, he says, because they have no will.
Prabhupāda: That is his foolishness. He has got will. When you take to the slaughterhouse, he protests.
| Page Title: | Violence (Lectures) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Partha-sarathi, Rishab |
| Created: | 13 of May, 2010 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=91, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 91 |