View (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"view" |"viewed" |"viewer" |"viewers" |"viewing" |"views"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: view or viewed or viewer or viewers or viewing or views not "point of view" not "points of view" not "view point" not "view points"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1976, Nellore:

Indian man: They have taken up social work, isn't it? Everybody. Swamijī, I am now reminded. A few weeks back I was invited to Raj Bhavan. I went as an invitee of an invitee. And that Madhuben Shah(?) began to wax eloquent because he happened to be the president of the world union. And they said, "Oh, we want to integrate the entire world, and the emotion and gradation, all those things." And they invited the views of Aryans, of twenty-five persons. All spoke. I did not speak. I kept quiet. Somebody said, "Here is a person who really knows." I said, "I am sick of this talk.... (break) And why should we have another organization for the same purpose?" Then I said, "But anyhow, I don't know. If Kṛṣṇa..." Nowadays I use that...

Prabhupāda: (break) There is Theosophical Society?

Yaśodānandana: Yes, all over the world, international.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...started from here?

Indian man: It was started. Madras center and there in America.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...come from the other side. (break) ...registering this association, some friend suggested, "Why don't you make it 'God consciousness'?" And "No, 'Kṛṣṇa conscious.' If I bring God consciousness, they will bring so many gods."

Indian man: And another question reply was also very convin..., that all other are gods, but He is Godhead. That is very clinching expla.... Some of these things are really direct replies.

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Satsvarūpa: "With all the books on Vedānta and bland neo-transcendentalism that are at present available to the English-speaking public, it is good to have on the popular market such an uncompromising statement of an opposing view from the pen of one who is as firmly rooted in a disciplic tradition, guru-paramparā, as Bhaktivedanta Swami."

Devotees: Haribol!

Ghanaśyāma: At this school, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they ordered two orders. They were so favorable, for their Theology Department Library and also for the main library, because there were so many professors like this one who were favorable, they wanted your books to be very easily accessible.

Devotee (1): This is the largest professor in Sanskrit in the whole United States, from Harvard University.

Satsvarūpa: Most distinguished of all men.

Ghanaśyāma: He never writes reviews for anyone, Śrīla Prabhupāda, but he wrote for you. He just refuses. He hides himself, you know.

Prabhupāda: What? Tell me. What does he say?

Room Conversation -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Prabhupāda: Everyone likes; that's a fact.

Guru-kṛpa: We gave the argument before that they say it is a disturbance, but there are so many cars and airplanes which are making disturbance. They should also be stopped.

Devotee (2): Last week we wrote letters to the newspaper, and they published them, showing our view. And in Whangarei.... It's another city, a hundred miles from here. It's near the farm up north, and the devotees chant there. And the businessmen complained. And the devotees wrote a letter criticizing the materialistic businessmen, and that they didn't care for the people, only they wanted money. And they printed it this big in the newspaper, completely criticizing, and the people liked it. They put it in everything, word for word what the devotees said. So it was good.

Prabhupāda: So there is agitation against chanting. That is also good. Yes, "Hare Kṛṣṇa is bad." (laughs)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They don't want to be bothered with Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They don't want to be bothered with Hare Kṛṣṇa. Go on with their hellish life.

Prabhupāda: So we want that. Let them chant Hare Kṛṣṇa somehow or other. (devotees laugh) "We don't want to be bothered by Hare Kṛṣṇa." That means chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- May 5, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Some lady inquired, "Is there any instruction about the power shortage?" "Oh, yes." (laughs) So she purchased, and the next day she said, "There is nothing about power." So suppose Tripurāri has sold one book. The lady inquired, "Is there any basic instruction about power shortage?" And he said, "Yes." So you think it is wrong. That is your version.

Bhūrijana: I think a simple lie like that is not bad.

Prabhupāda: But a devotee's view is that whatever may be her inquiry, if she purchases one book, she'll be benefited. This is the point. But you, as big moralist, you, (laughs) you think that he has cheated. He has not cheated. He has benefited her. Somehow or other he has given a book to her. Someday she'll read and she'll benefit. But you people, you think that why we should sell like that, that, "Yes, there is some solution of power shortage." Actually there is, but you think that he has lied. Just like there are sometimes the father's child is suffering from fever. So the father wants that the child may take the medicine, and promises, "You take the medicine. I'll give you this cake." The purpose is not to give the cake actually. The purpose is the child may take the medicine. That is the purpose. But when the father promises that "If you take the medicine I'll give you the cake." But cake is dangerous for the child who is suffering from fever, but still the father allures him. "If you take the medicine and I'll give you cake." So is the father wrong or right?

Bhūrijana: No.

Morning Walk -- May 26, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: ...think he must know how things are going on. That is knowledge. "I have created heaven. I am the center. Whatever I believe, that's all right." There's so many rascal philosophers. Everyone is thinking "I am the..." And their different views.

Hari-śauri: If they're mentally satisfied, they think that's the ultimate.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...there's no such thing. "I believe." Immediately.... What Kṛṣṇa says, that's true. That is our movement. Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What I believe? I'm a nonsense. I am.... I have got four defects in my life: illusion, mistake, cheating, insufficiency. What is the meaning of my belief? A cheater saying, "I believe," I have to accept if I know that he's a cheat? (break) ...the public, by misleading them they have gone to moon.

Devotee: (tape static-inaudible)

Prabhupāda: (inaudible) ...some tickets for going to moon. What they are doing with the tickets? You know that Pan American sold tickets for going to moon? You do not know? (laughs) They sold tickets, because in your country, you have got lot of money, any kind of cheating can draw money. (laughs)

Devotee (6): They're selling tickets to go to the moon?

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rādhāvallabha: They have one argument, that during solar eclipse, the moon appears to pass in front of the sun, between the sun and the earth.

Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda explains that. It is the Rāhu planet.

Rādhāvallabha: But they are viewing the moon. The moon is right there, they can see it. And all of a sudden it goes in front of the sun.

Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that? Moon is there, sun is there. Now which first? That is the question.

Rādhāvallabha: They will say that they've observed in their telescopes...,

Prabhupāda: They'll say..., whatever they'll say it is all right. First of all, say why Sunday first. Then talk all nonsense. First of all, answer this. You cannot say "We believe that Sunday first." What is the fact? Why do you bring moon, Monday? Why not bring...?

Rādhāvallabha: They will say it is arbitrary order.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Rādhāvallabha: Then they will get back to their argument.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Arbitrary order is not science. That you cannot.

Morning Walk -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No clear conception, scientific idea. Therefore educated persons, they are not interested. "God, give us daily bread." They will say, "Why we shall go to church for begging bread? We can manufacture it, large quantity." (laughs) Why they should go? Formality: "God, give us our daily bread." "Just open a big factory and eat as much bread as we like. Why should we go to God?" (break) ...Jawaharlal Nehru, he took this view, that "For economic development why should you go to the temple, ask this demigod, that demigod, 'Give me this. Give me this'? Develop industry and get money to enjoy." That is his.... (break)...description of God in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam begins: janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ sva-rāṭ (SB 1.1.1). This is God, the origin of everything. Who is there who can challenge this explanation, "The origin of everything"? Now, what is that origin? Whether it is matter or sentient? No. Janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś ca abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). He knows everything. Therefore He's a person. Otherwise, how He can be origin of everything? Anvayād itarataś ca. Suppose I.... If I have manufactured this car, then I know every nook and corner of this car, how I have manufactured. One who has manufactured, he knows how it is working, every minute feature. Even an expert driver, he knows how many parts are there, which part is.... Anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ. If he's abhijñaḥ, if he's completely cognizant of every part of the whole creation, then He has created. (pause) All Santa Monica city?

Hṛdayānanda: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda (break) ...a very clear day.

Prabhupāda: Clear? That is not clear. So many clouds.

Hṛdayānanda: I mean for visibility, for seeing.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that.... One has to come to this conclusion undoubtedly. And that is education. Her education is now complete, that he (she) has understood, he (she) is trying to explain scientifically that there is life after death. That is complete education. So everyone should try by his education to establish what is already said in the śāstras. That is a fact. When Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), one gets another body, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre... (BG 2.20). Kṛṣṇa says there cannot be any mistake. So if scientist, philosopher, establishes the statement of Kṛṣṇa by their scientific knowledge, that is real perfect scientific knowledge. And if he wants to defy the statement of Kṛṣṇa, that is māyā. That is not possible. But he's vainlessly trying to do that. But if one by scientific knowledge establishes what Kṛṣṇa says, that is perfection.

idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā

sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ

avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito

yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam

(SB 1.5.22)

That is required. We are publishing one book, Dialectic Spiritualism: Vedic Views of Western Philosophy. We are just going to publish one book, Dialectic Spiritualism. Marx's theory is dialectic materialism (laughs). We are going to establish dialectic spiritualism. Go on.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So what is that?

Richard: What did I think about it?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Richard: Um, that I, I've always viewed myself as my self.

Prabhupāda: Myself, that's what..., you are not this body. You are not.... Body is not yourself. Did you ever think of it?

Richard: Well, when I say "myself," I should perhaps define it. Myself being all that I can recall being before, as well as my present, ah...

Prabhupāda: How do you distinguish between a dead man or living man?

Richard: Um, well...

Prabhupāda: The living man is important, but the dead man is not important.

Richard: Not his physical body, no.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then within the physical body, there is something which is making him living man. Is it not?

Richard: Um...

Prabhupāda: What is the dead man? Something is missing; therefore it is dead. Otherwise the body is there.

Richard: Right. Okay. His ability to, to...

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: How is that, is not obstacle? You are planning something, that "I shall do this..." You may not be very important man, but there are many important men. The leaders of the society, they are planning that "I shall make my nation like this way, my family like this way." Everyone is planning. But where is the guarantee that he'll be able to fulfill the plan? Death may take place any moment. So is it not obstacle?

Richard: Hm. I really don't view it as an obstacle, the fact that my plans may be altered.

Prabhupāda: You may not. You may not, but we have got personal experience that people do not want to die until he fulfills some, his brainwork plan. I have seen. One, my friend, he was dying, he was at that time fifty-four years old only, and he was begging the doctor, "My dear doctor, medical man, can you not give me four years time only, I can fulfill my plan?" He was very big businessman, so he was planning something to do, but doctor said that "You cannot survive." So he was begging the mercy of the doctor, "Doctor, can you not give me at least four years time?" As if the doctor can give him life. He was feeling this is obstacle: "I'm going to die without fulfilling my plan." I think that psychology is everywhere.

Richard: But, but generally, how can...?

Prabhupāda: You may not be afraid of, but generally.

Richard: Generally, how can you determine an obstacle...

Prabhupāda: I've seen it, I've seen it, that he was begging the doctor, "Please give me four years life. Give me some medicine so that I'll live at least for four years, I'll finish my plan." I've seen it. You are the first man that you are not afraid of death (devotees laugh), but I see everyone is afraid of death.

Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Because they are spiritually enlightened. That is the cause of brightness. And materially involved-moroseness. Because it is ignorance. Material life means life of ignorance. And spiritual life means life of enlightenment. That is the difference. Material life is called tamas. Tamas means darkness. Tamaso mā jyotir gamaya. This is the Vedic mantra. Don't remain in darkness. But people cannot understand. "I am living in the light. Why I'm darkness?" Darkness means without any spiritual enlightenment. That is darkness. So the Vedic injunction is "Don't remain in darkness. Come to the light." The light is my spiritual life, and material life means darkness. Because he does not know what is going to happen next. You are under the laws of material nature. The nature will act according to the association you make, exactly. You do not know that you are infecting some contagious disease. You may not know it, but it will act. In due course of time, you'll develop that disease and suffer. Similarly, without knowledge, in ignorance, imperceptibly we are associating with a certain law of nature, and we shall be victimized. We may not know it, but we shall be victimized. That is the life of ignorance. A child does not know that if he touches the fire it will burn and it will cause some disease, some sore. He does not know. But he, somehow or other, if he touches fire, these things will come. This is the life of ignorance. You do something, you do not know what is the effect. But the effect will come, and you'll have to suffer. You know or not know, it doesn't matter. That is ignorance. Life of darkness. The Christian theologicians, they say that "Why shall I suffer for my...?" They do not believe in the karma, fruitive activity. But that means ignorance. They have no sufficient knowledge. Karma is there and effect is there, but they do not know it. Poor fund of knowledge. Therefore it is failing. They have failed, these Christian priest, to explain everything philosophically. So advanced Westerners, they are now educated in science philosophy, they are not attracted with these dogmatic views. So to remain in ignorance is animal life. To be enlightened is human life. And the topmost enlightenment is to understand God and to love Him.

Prabhupada Visits Palace and Garden -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Nice, very nice. And there will be garden here?

Kīrtanānanda: Yes. We are gradually clearing all this land, this was all wooded last year, and we're clearing now.

Prabhupāda: Very nice.

Kīrtanānanda: It has very good view, all the way around.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Kīrtanānanda: These are your quarters here. This will be your study room, and there will be a wall there. This is your bedroom.

Prabhupāda: These are all marbles? No.

Kīrtanānanda: Yes, this is all marble. The devotees—you see how the marble is all inlaid on the pieces there—they've done that. Then there will be a dressing room and a bath.

Prabhupāda: Oh. That side?

Kīrtanānanda: That side.

Prabhupāda: These framework will remain?

Kīrtanānanda: No, it will be covered with plaster.

Prabhupāda: Then it will be taken away? No.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Reason means people do not know. They cheat. Suppose I present something, a misconception, and if there are others also who can speak something on the... There are two lawyers. One is speaking one point of law, another lawyer is speaking. So if you take one side only, then how you will understand? So they are simply reading this Śārīraka-bhāṣya. They are not reading other bhāṣyas, just like the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, which is natural. And they are cheating people. That's all. Why there are two lawyers? Two opposite parties, there are two lawyers. One lawyer says this law is like this, and the other party says, "No, it is this." And the judge is there, he will take what is the real meaning. But this interpretation is required when things are not clear. Now the Vedānta-sūtra says, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), "The Absolute Truth is that from whom everything comes in, emanates." Now, here is... In the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa said that ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). Clearly. That "I am the origin of everything, and everything comes from Me." So why don't you take it? Why simply you remain theoretically understood that Absolute Truth is that from which everything emanates. But when the Absolute Truth comes before you and says that "I am the origin of everything. Everything comes from Me." Why don't you accept Kṛṣṇa as Absolute Truth? Why do you take the so-called impersonalist view only, that God has no form? Here is God speaking, person. Why don't you take it? If you want to be cheated, then who can stop you? Here Kṛṣṇa says, sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo (BG 15.15). Find out this verse. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca...

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This next question is very closely related to the last question. Question twenty. "What is your view regarding proselytization or preaching? If you are..."

Prabhupāda: It is not proselytization. Proselytization has no meaning. To bring one to the real understanding. Kṛṣṇa says that mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). All living entities are His part and parcel. He claims, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). In all forms of life, as many living entities are there, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ, I am the seed-giving father. So the natural position is that every living entity, not only human being, but also animals, plants, everyone... So why not Indian, American, or Czechoslavakian, everyone is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa? So it not the process of proselytizing to convince the idea. It is actually bringing them to their real position, that they're all part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. It is not artificial proselytization that "You are Christian, now you are Hindu." Or "You are Hindu, now you are Christian." "You are a sweeper, now you are harijana." It is not like that. It is actually bringing him to his own position, part and parcel of God. It is not... Proselytization will not stand. When one comes to the real understanding of his position, then that will continue. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that. Bringing one to the original position. He's in diseased condition, he's thinking otherwise than servant of Kṛṣṇa. Now this movement is trying to bring everyone to the position that he is eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. It is not a rubberstamp proselytization that "You are Hindu, now you are Christian." Or "You are Christian, now are Hindu." So if he does not know what is his position by simply stamping that he is Hindu or Muslim or Christian, what benefit he will derive?

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, it is in his name, Pasteur. He is a famous scientist. He was a chemist and biochemist, and he did this experiment in the 1860s. Now the flask... This experiment is called a "swan-neck" experiment because the shape of the neck of the flask looks like the neck of a swan. So it is the famous "swan-neck experiment." Now, at that time, it was quite amazing that even the so-called famous Greek philosophers like Aristotle, Plato and all these philosophers, even they believed that life actually comes from matter. They had all complete materialistic view of life, completely on the bodily concept. Now, at that time...

Prabhupāda: But Socrates did not believe like that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Socrates also believed in material concept.

Rūpānuga: No, Socrates did not think he was the body.

Prabhupāda: He separated body from the soul.

Rūpānuga: But after Socrates they all were like that. Socrates, you said once to me, was the last philosopher in the Western world of any value. At least, he knew the difference between body and soul. But after that they all became nonsense.

Devotee: (indistinct) arguing that rice can bring forth scorpions, he said that can happen.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That... Prabhupāda said that rice can give scorpions? Something like that, scorpion comes out of rice.

Prabhupāda: Yes, taṇḍula-vṛścika-nyāya. Taṇḍula-vṛścika-nyāya.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Where is this, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Is it in...?

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: First try to point out as many as you can. And our view is they are wholesale mistaken. They are imperfect, speculating.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There's one strange point here about calculating this that dawn of Brahmā about two billion years old. Now strangely these geological calculations, they also claim that at that time the first free oxygen in the air appeared, first time. The beginning there was no free oxygen. We can accept that? (laughter) Now from here, anyway, this is the basic point, that once this oxygen appeared, free oxygen, then the living entities began to appear slowly. That is the whole theory of this chemical evolution. The results for the chronology is just put it that dawn of Brahmā is two billion years old?

Prabhupāda: You can carefully read the Second Canto, Bhāgavatam, Third Canto. You'll get all the knowledge, how things develop. It is a question of development. So maybe there was something missing, but after development it is manifested there. That is possible.

Rūpānuga: In the day of, one day of Brahmā, there are fourteen Manus. And in the course of creation, re-creation of the same species from the previous day—they are re-creating the same species—it takes, there's some time, maybe one Manu, there's some species that are finished, but the next Manu...

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No, he was a big worshiper of Kali. And he was meat-eater also, Ma Kali's prasāda, that unless one eats that prasādam he cannot become a devotee. So this was his position, that he worshiped Kali, and later on by worshiping Kali... His picture is there, mother Kali's embracing. And he also preached yata mata tata pat: "Whatever path you take, accept, that is all right." Is it not? So do you think it is all right? He worshiped Kali and he said yata mata tata pat. You agree to this? Now, Ramakrishna says yata mata tata pat. And Kṛṣṇa says... He became Ramakrishna, identifying himself with Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa said mam ekam, and now he's becoming Kṛṣṇa, he says yata mata tata pat. Just see. When he's actual Kṛṣṇa, he says mām ekam, and when he became imitation Kṛṣṇa, he says yata mata tata pat. Kṛṣṇa has changed his views. (laughter) Just see, this foolishness is going on.

Dr. Sukla: Well, it's documented that he was kind of deranged, of a deranged mind. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the proof.

Dr. Sukla: Yes, because he was, when he was thirteen or seventeen he was walking, he was going from one village to another village through the paddy fields, and the clouds were very thick and thunder and lightning, and he writes that he saw Kali, and I have a friend in England, Carl Wilson, who has done some work on Ramakrishna, he believes that at that very moment...

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: These are miracles, that's all. It has no value. People are after miracles. So in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajante 'nya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). Those who are worshipers of other demigods, they are hṛta-jñānāḥ. Hṛta-jñānāḥ. Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura gives his comment, hṛta-jñānāḥ naṣṭa buddhayaḥ, one who has lost his intelligence. So by worshiping the demigod Kali he is to be considered as hṛta-jñānāḥ, one who has lost his intelligence—and he becomes God. Is it possible? One who has lost his intelligence, he becomes God. With that lost intelligence. And this is the proof that on account of lost intelligence, he says yata mata tata pat. Kṛṣṇa says mām ekam. Sarva dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). And when he became Ramakrishna, same Kṛṣṇa is speaking, yata mata tata pat. So he has changed his view. We have to accept this? And how he gave up his wife, that's a long history, I don't wish to discuss. We know everything. So we cannot accept something which is beyond the instruction of śāstra.

yaḥ śāstra vidhim utsṛjya

vartate kāma kārataḥ

na sa siddhim avāpnoti

na sukhaṁ na parāṁ gatim

(BG 16.23)

If you have no knowledge of the śāstra, then you'll never be successful in your spiritual life, what to speak of happiness and liberation. It is not possible.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Devotee: There was an Indian man there and he was saying that, you were presenting, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the philosophy very nicely, but there are others who are presenting it in an impersonal way. And they are able through the scripture to support what they say. Prabhupāda (indistinct) now in our (indistinct) you can't actually substantiate that God is impersonal, because Kṛṣṇa is a person speaking to Arjuna, so where is the question of impersonal? (indistinct) So Prabhupāda said it's because they're speculating and cheating, that they're interpreting it in some devious manner, rather than taking what Kṛṣṇa said, literally, as (indistinct).

Guest: Well, I have given some thought to that. I found that whenever you take an impersonal view, it becomes a pure intellectual exercise, devoid of any feeling. And if you bring feeling into that, it becomes personal. Like, I don't believe that anything can survive without feeling. So...

Prabhupāda: It is in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is clearly said, bhagavān uvāca. It is never said Brahman uvāca. (laughter) People have no eyes to see. The absolute truth is realized brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). But in the Bhagavad-gītā it is never said Paramātmā uvāca. (laughter) Or Brahman uvāca. Bhagavān uvāca! Vyāsadeva, He does not say kṛṣṇa uvāca, because Kṛṣṇa will be taken, misunderstood. Therefore (Vyāsadeva) directly says, śrī bhagavān uvāca. So where is impersonal? There is no question of impersonal. He clearly says bhagavān. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo (BG 10.8). Bhagavān says, "I am everything." So where is imperson? How they can bring in impersonal at all? It is simply dragging (?) the matter. This impersonal has killed India's Vedic culture.

Guest: Well, the example is that Śaṅkarācārya, who was of course...

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Bill Sauer: I try to resolve these two views. I believe that materialism has a divine purpose.

Prabhupāda: Everything has got divine purpose. But if you do not understand the divine purpose, then you remain animal.

Bill Sauer: Yes, that's right.

Prabhupāda: Everything has got divine purpose. This human form of life is given to us by laws of nature to understand what is God, what we are, what is our relationship with God, what is this material world, why you have come here, these things we have to know in this human form of life, and, if we like, we can know also. But instead of knowing these different phases of life, if we simply take care of this body like the animals, then we miss the opportunity. The animal is concerned to take the care of the body, that's all. If we simply remain taking care of this body, then we are animal. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13).

Arrival Comments in Car to Temple -- July 9, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That Hudson Street?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hudson River is on the other side. This is going on the east side of the city.

Prabhupāda: That subway that goes to the city office? There are so many bridges.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So many, yes, many, many bridges. Every day about seven million people come into this island of Manhattan from the other boroughs, and they go back. From your room, our building is very close to the Empire State Building, so from your room you have a very nice view of it.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So Los Angeles everything is going nice?

Rāmeśvara: Everything is very nice. We just had a big saṅkīrtana marathon for this Fourth of July, and they distributed up to thirty thousand Back to Godheads in just a few days.

Prabhupāda: (referring to garland) Make it smaller.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think it's all one garland, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: You can just make smaller.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right.

Rāmeśvara: We had a good success because we sent out all the householders to the parks. During that holiday everyone goes to the parks. So the householders took their children and they set up a tent, and one of them stayed there babysitting and all the others went out distributing your books. So in that way they went out on traveling saṅkīrtana.

Morning Walk -- July 9, 1976, Washington D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Devotee: So we should follow that example, and accept like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the instruction. Tat te 'nukampām (SB 10.14.8). "It is Your mercy, my Lord, that I would have suffered a hundred times more than this, You are giving me little suffering." That is devotee's view. That "I am so sinful, I would have suffered hundred times more than what I am suffering. But You are so kind that You are giving me little suffering and adjusting that (indistinct)." (break) ...thinks like that, for him, back to home back to Godhead is guaranteed. That is the bhagavata-dharma. Muktipadeśa dayābhāk. One who lives like that, doesn't care for suffering, goes on with his duty. That person is sure to go back to home, back to Godhead. Just like a son is sure to inherit the father's property. Dayābhāk, this word is used. Muktipadeśa dayābhāk. Literally, heritage. Ha? What is called?

Devotee: Inheritance.

Prabhupāda: Inheritance, yes. Legally inheritance. (break) ...we're afraid of suffering. Let there be so many, what is that? Let me do my duty.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: From these sufferings actually we know that this material world is full of misery.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So how to get out this misery that is the point, next step.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Tripurāri: He thinks there are different types of meditation that all work, and ours is one type, bona fide, that works. There are also other types.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The article goes on—I don't know if you want to hear it all. You want to hear it? Okay. Here's this thing called "Who is Kṛṣṇa?" "Kṛṣṇa, viewed by ISKCON as the Supreme Personification of Godhead, is said to have many pastimes in which He assumes different appearances. One such is that of Gopālajī, the cowherd boy—see picture, cowherd boy—He can appear in other forms such as four-armed Nārāyaṇa. Most often Kṛṣṇa is portrayed as having light blue skin and, by Western standards, a soft and effeminate physique. He is said to be full in the six opulences: beauty, strength, fame, wealth, knowledge and renunciation. He is said to be all-attractive. Kṛṣṇa incarnates on one planet after another in infinite universes. The last time He appeared on earth as Kṛṣṇa was five thousand years ago. He will not return in that form for another four hundred thousand years, but five hundred years ago He appeared in His incarnation of Lord Caitanya, who taught people of the mahāmantra and started the Kṛṣṇa consciousness in its present state. According to the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa hungers for the devotion of His followers." Very nicely put. "This devotion in its pure sense takes the form of bhakti-yoga, the dedication of one's every action to Kṛṣṇa. Thus to use one's sense for one's own pleasure is to deny Kṛṣṇa devotion and accumulate negative karma. Kṛṣṇa has a consort, Rādhā, but She is considered only as an extension of His own pleasure principle, since He is all things. It is through Her intercession that devotees seek favors from Kṛṣṇa. According to ISKCON, Kṛṣṇa is the same God worshiped as Jehovah, Allah and so on." That is the explanation of who Kṛṣṇa is.

Rādhāvallabha: He could write for Back to Godhead.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That is the goal. When the soul lives without this material body, that is his liberated life. Just like the criminal, he can live within the jail and without the jail. But he's thinking wrongly that without jail he cannot live. But his life without jail is real life.

Interviewer: That reflects the old, the Hindu view that...

Prabhupāda: Why you again bring Hindu view?

Interviewer: Or, the, at least the Eastern religious view, that to leave this life...

Prabhupāda: Why we are bringing Hindu and Muslim view?

Interviewer: Well, O.K., I take that back then. I take that back. Anyway, what you're saying is that this life is a jail and that really the goal is another life.

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.

Interviewer: Right? I mean that this life is an evil prison.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, now you have understood. This is not a desirable life, to live in the jail, conditioned.

Interviewer: Well in other words, in a sense that is to reject or at least to repudiate this life, this world.

Prabhupāda: Not repudiate, to understand.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: It is useful for every human being. If the Western society thinks that they are not human being, that is another thing. (laughter)

Bali-mardana: In other words, this is the business of human life.

Interviewer: What's your view of Judaism and Christianity?

Prabhupāda: I have not studied, but any "ism," if it is meant for making the soul free from this bodily condition, that is first class "ism." Otherwise, it is simply waste of time.

Interviewer: Any religion that...

Prabhupāda: That gives facility.

Interviewer: Emphasizes making us free from the bodily condition.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interviewer: That's a first class religion.

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Interviewer: I don't think Judaism and Christianity do that.

Prabhupāda: I do not know that.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That, how can I say? That is your subject matter. You study both of them and see and give your judgement.

Interviewer: What is your view? Are there other paths to spirit consciousness?

Prabhupāda: There is, but not very elaborate.

Interviewer: There are but not very what?

Bali-mardana: Elaborate, scientific.

Prabhupāda: Not very elaborate.

Interviewer: Not very good?

Prabhupāda: Not very elaborate.

Bali-mardana: Elaborate.

Interviewer: Well is Kṛṣṇa consciousness very elaborate?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interviewer: By elaborate you mean effective, is that?

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: No, 1893.

Interviewer: Ninety-three, I see. Since then there has been a lot of interest in this country in Indian philosophy. Recent gurus have come, they have talked about meditation. My own view is that all of these things have influenced the American people, but in a kind of intellectual fad, a kind of fashion. And it seems to me that your intention and aim is not merely to cater to the mind, cater to reason, cater to the intellect, but to effect a kind of transformation of man himself. Is this why you have introduced a whole way of living, a whole way of life, is it? Am I right in suggesting that?

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is a different platform of life—a spiritual. Generally people are on the material platform, in the bodily concept of life, and the whole world is going on with that wrong conception of life. Actually, as soon as we think that we are this body, we are immediately on the platform of animal life. So in the Bhāgavata it is stated, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). Anyone who is thinking, identifying himself with this body, and similarly with other references, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ. In relation with body, we think of family, community, nationality. In this way our civilization is dog civilization. That is not human civilization. Human civilization begins when one understands that he is not this body. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Perhaps you have heard this word...

Interviewer: Yes.

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: For open air.

Hari-śauri: It's very good for massage.

Prabhupāda: And the view of the river is very healthy. If you can see the river from your house, it is to be understood that quarter is very nice. If you can see sky from your room, then it is understood the room is very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, all these things are here.

Prabhupāda: We can see from the room the river.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise from the roof. So it is very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think also that right now there's a lot of devotees here, so it's a little taxing, but once the festival's over, they will all be returning to their respective centers. It will be much calmer. (break) In the night?

Prabhupāda: I do not take anything at night.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Morning, you are drinking milk? Is it...?

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: I shall request you, you are young man, just try to study our philosophy. And as you are journalist, try to do some good to the people. That is your duty.

Mike Robinson: Well, certainly we're trying to present both other people's views and...

Prabhupāda: Don't take it as a sectarian religious system. It is very scientific understanding for spiritual life.

Harikeśa: But, ah, "Beware of the undefeatable reasoning and logic of the Hare Kṛṣṇas, who will steal away your children." (laughs) Because we argue so nicely because Śrīla Prabhupāda has trained us up very perfectly, because he also is the perfect teacher of this. Therefore the students can learn that way. So when we argue people become afraid, because it makes so much sense.

Prabhupāda: They accuse me, "kidnapper of children." But what is my kidnapping method? The young men, they understand philosophy. What I can do, kidnap them? I have no money, I have no strength.

Mike Robinson: But it exists purely as a charity, isn't that correct?

Hari-śauri: Yes, purely nonprofit.

Mike Robinson: Which must make it difficult sometimes, doesn't it?

Harikeśa: No, it's done out of love. So it is not at all difficult.

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Jayatīrtha: Oh, the philosophy book will be called Dialectic Spiritualism? Ah, very good title.

Hari-śauri: A Vedic View of Western Philosophy.

Jayatīrtha: Very good title.

Prabhupāda: That's a fact. If one actually interested in real philosophy, they must come to spiritualism. Ātma-tattvam. That is ātma-tattvam. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long they do not come to this platform of understanding ātma-tattva, whatever rascal they are doing, simply defeat, that's all. Parābhava. Simply frustration and defeat. This very word, parābhava, means defeat. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. Why he's defeated? Abodha-jātaḥ. Because by birth he's a rascal. Abodha-jātaḥ. And this will continue yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long he's not enlightened to inquire about spirit and the science of spirit, he'll remain in that, that, what is called, defeat position or conquered position. So we have to now increase our scope. Everything we have got. And if you don't come to this platform, ātma-tattva, then your all attempt will be defeat. You are already defeated, frustrated, simply struggling, that's all. Either take the capitalist or communist, who has conquered? Everyone is defeated. One party may be proud that "We have been victorious." What victory you have got? What is the victory? Not that the communist countries, they are all happy. This is not the fact. Then where is your victory? Simply beating the drum that they have got victory, victory? "We have gone to moon planet. We have gone to Mars." Cheating innocent public. Is that victory? The girls are working that side? No.

Hari-śauri: No, they won't come for another half hour yet.

Jayatīrtha: They can come earlier if you like. They can come any time you like.

Prabhupāda: No...No, I have no objection. What is that? They'll work that side; I'll sit down here.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: You have to leave, you cannot stay. You do not want to leave, that's a fact, but you'll be kicked out. When Napoleon fought for France, he did not like to leave, but he was kicked out. I have seen in one park, there is a Napoleon Bonaparte there, France and Napoleon identified. But France is there, Napoleon is kicked out. (laughter)

Bhūgarbha: He's asking that in view of that, is it possible to live a household life and at the same time a spiritual life?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Arjuna, Arjuna is a householder, he's a military man, but the greatest devotee of Kṛṣṇa.

Bhūgarbha: He wants you to mention something about the translations. He wants to express his opinion about the translations that the French translators are doing of your books.

Prabhupāda: He is doing?

Bhūgarbha: He wants to give his opinion.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Bhūgarbha: He's asking permission to give his opinion.

Prabhupāda: It would be very nice.

Bhūgarbha: He says it is very interesting, very important that Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam be translated in the same way as the Gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā has been translated many times into French, but the Bhāgavatam was only translated once, and that also in the last century.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Inquisitive means one who does not accept that "Here is a person giving me gold. He's very good man, he'll not cheat me." Then you accept. But if you have no such faith, then you check it. But real gold, either you take in blind faith or by checking, the result is the same. Now it is up to you. If you believe Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead as He says... He is the Supreme Person. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). That's a fact. But if you don't believe it, then check and consider of our statement, and then accept. Two ways are there. Why people are misled? They do not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. They are taking Bhagavad-gītā in their own way. So why they should take Bhagavad-gītā in their own way? That is not good. If you want to speak something better than Bhagavad-gītā, you speak separately. Why you misinterpret Bhagavad-gītā? Our preaching process is that you take Bhagavad-gītā's instruction, that is perfect, and you'll be happy. This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Don't try to interpret it. Don't try to exact some meaning of your choice. No, that is not good. You take it as it is, you'll be benefited. Now if you take it, that it is spoken by Bhagavān svayam, then it is blind faith. It may be blind faith, but it is right. If you don't want, then Kṛṣṇa says, iti te jñānam ākhyātaṁ guhyād guhyataraṁ mayā. Then you check it by your knowledge. Yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). Both ways you can accept. Therefore we have to follow mahājana. Our knowledge is always scanty. So mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). That is the way. Tarkaḥ apratiṣṭha. Tarka, by argument you'll never come to the conclusion. Śrutayor vibhinnam. There are śāstras for different persons, in different way they are presented. So they appear to be contradictory from one another. Not contradictory; at least, different from one another. So śrutayor vibhinnam. Na cāsav ṛṣir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. And a great philosopher is not a great philosopher if he does not present a different view. So therefore, the spiritual essence is very confidential. Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihita guhyayam.(?)Therefore we have to follow the mahājana, great personality. That is the system, Vedic system. Guru-paramparā.

Room Conversation About Blitz News Clipping -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's not true.

Pradyumna: "In mid 1975 the Union Home Ministry took, however, a lenient view and allowed the immigrants to stay for long periods on the specious plea that the mastering of Vaiṣṇava literature, the spiritual diet of the cultists, was not like learning shorthand." Then heading: "Contrary Pulls in Government." "Lately, of course, the center has become wise, though contrary pulls in the thinking process still persist. This was quite evident at the Raj..."

Prabhupāda: This article no sane man will take notice of it. No sane man will like. It is not very important article.

Hari-śauri: Trouble is, we're in a land of insane people.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the largest circulating newspaper in India.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. So bring him into court. But what will be your charges?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, slander, it was trying to slander our character, our whole movement.

Gargamuni: Defamation of our religious cult. Because we're recognized by scholars as being bona fide. It says here, "Ungodly face of Kṛṣṇa cult." How is that ungodly?

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the charge. They are trying to minimize our...

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Internationalism. Why it is a short-sighted view, "They cannot come here"? Everyone is God's son, and everything belongs to God. If one finds opportunity in some place, let him have it. I think if this is adopted by the United Nation, immediately the face of the world will change. The Chinese and the Indians, they are very expert. If they are given place, they can immediately turn that place into a nice food-producing village. They can do that. And you can produce anything usable from anywhere according to the climate. Especially in America, the facility is very, very great. So many jungles. If the jungles are cut, the woods can be used for making house and the field can be used for producing food and milk, cows, everything. Around our New Vrindaban there are many places.

Hari-śauri: Both our... Pennsylvania farm has 100 acres of woods.

Prabhupāda: Especially in America. There is enough place. And England also. There is enough place. They are not being utilized.

Maṇihāra: Even my father, he has one big house with some land, one or two acres of land. I put this to him, I told him, "Why you cannot just live simply? You have enough room for one cow, which is enough milk for you and for four people that live there." Two sisters. Like that. One cow. "You can grow vegetables, you can have an apple tree, a pear tree. Like this you can have everything. You don't need to buy anything."

Evening Darsana -- September 1, 1976, Delhi:

Pradyumna:

moghāśā mogha-karmāṇo

mogha-jñānā vicetasaḥ

rākṣasīm āsurīṁ caiva

prakṛtiṁ mohinīṁ śrītāḥ

(BG 9.12)

"Those who are thus bewildered are attracted by demoniac and atheistic views. In that deluded condition, their hopes for liberation, their fruitive activities, and their culture of knowledge are all defeated."

Prabhupāda: Go on, go on. I have given any purport?

Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There are many devotees who assume themselves to be in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and devotional service but at heart do not accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, as the Absolute Truth. For them, the fruit of devotional service-going back to Godhead—will never be tasted. Similarly, those who are engaged in fruitive, pious activities and who are ultimately hoping to be liberated from this material entanglement will never be successful either because they deride the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. In other words, persons who mock Kṛṣṇa are to be understood to be demonic or atheistic. As described in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, such demonic miscreants never surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore their mental speculations to arrive at the Absolute Truth bring them to the false conclusion that the ordinary living entity and Kṛṣṇa are one and the same. With such a false conviction, they think that the body of any human being is now simply covered by material nature and that as soon as one is liberated from this material body there is no difference between God and himself. This attempt to become one with Kṛṣṇa will be baffled because of delusion. Such atheistic and demoniac cultivation of spiritual knowledge is always futile. That is the indication of this verse. For such persons, cultivation of the knowledge in the Vedic literature, like the Vedānta-sūtra and the Upaniṣads, is always baffled.

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: If you all don't mind, just for five minutes, we would like to read the selected extracts from some leading scholars about this movement. We're not reading the views of Western scholars. These books are being used in five thousand universities, including Harvard, Oxford, Cambridge, Yale, but some of the leading Indian scholars. So you also get an understanding of the Indian appreciation of Prabhupāda's activities. This for example, is a letter from Mr. Ghosh, District and Summon Judge in West Bengal: "I'm highly impressed at the sincerity and devotion of the disciples of the International Society of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. A visit to the Māyāpur Chandrodaya Mandir, West Bengal, sublimes the mind from all harsh talk and disturbing influences." Then...

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Stop now. Don't divert attention.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is a letter from Śrī Ambarish Sarkar, General Secretary of the Nadia District Congress Committee. "I had an opportunity to visit the Śrī Māyāpur Chandrodaya Mandir on the 12th August, 1975. It is absolutely a religious institution. Jayapātāka Swami has devoted all of his efforts and endeavors to organize and propound the sacred name of Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. I'm impressed by his charming manner and strength. Although it is a religious institution, this organization has performed many social services. Many poor and destitute families have had an opportunity to work and at the same time they have become worshipers of Lord Śrī Caitanya. To engage these workers, so many industrial centers have already been started, such as handloom cloth, printing, etc. I wish this organization, with its help of the local people, all success."

Prabhupāda: We're not only chanting, we are giving them work. We are trying to become self-sufficient, the same idea of Gandhi's village organization, so they may not come out from the village. They'll be satisfied, village economics. That we are doing.

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Could we just take two minutes of your time? This is a review from Śrī Baradraj, Principle of Government College for Men, Chandigarh. He says, "Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is one of the great classics of India. This commentary is a significant contribution to the religious literature of this country. Many of the conflicting views on certain ślokas have been beautifully resolved by Swamiji. I congratulate the members of the Society for bringing out this wonderful work in such a lucid form. I shall be looking forward to the other publications." This is a review from Dr. Varsneya (?), senior professor and Head of Hindi Department, Dean and Curator of Arts, honorary librarian, Allahabad University, Allahabad. "Śrī A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda has really done a great service to Indian philosophy, religion and culture by translating Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam into English, with learned commentaries, and has thus provided source material to the Western world. Other philosophical and religious works published by the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust also present a golden opportunity to the Western philosophers and scholars to drink deep at the celestial fountain of ancient Indian philosophy and spiritual wisdom." I'm just reading a few very quick ones. There's one from a leading professor in Chandigarh who you must be knowing. Dr. Jagadish Sharma, M.A., (indistinct) Delhi? He's from Punjab University. Author of nineteen books including Encyclopedia of India. So here is what Dr. Sharma says. "India's contribution towards the revivalism of the Hindu civilization culture by way of printing the Harvard Oriental Series was tremendous. But the work done by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda is unsurpassable." He says it's even greater. "His Holiness has done a great service to the Indian culture by re-interpreting the concepts enshrined in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. This edition of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam will go a long way to help the scientists in rediscovering phenomena of the universe which is yet to be discovered. The printing and the get up of this book is excellent. The thoughts of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam radiate to anyone who sees it. This book helps to brighten the gloomy and dark clouds which are covered by the nuclear fear and apprehension of society."

Prabhupāda: Where is that book, Scientific Basis of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness? Some of my students, they are Ph.Ds in science. They have written this book, Scientific Basis of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. And we are going to publish another book, Life Comes From Life.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: So Dr. Allen Gerson says, "I am here today as a citizen who dislikes injustice, as a person who's own people, because of their religious beliefs, are being persecuted repeatedly, and as a scientist who knows how ignorance can turn the normal rationality of people into blind hatred." (aside:) He's Jewish. "As a citizen I can see a great injustice perpetrated here. Several people, all of legal age, have chosen a lifestyle which, because it differs in form from our lifestyle, has been viewed by their families as unacceptable. These families with honest but misguided intentions have had their children removed from the Hare Kṛṣṇa Temple and have attempted to reprogram them to the behavior and attitudes of society at large. The reprogramming obviously did not work and their children returned to the movement, thus angering and frustrating their parents. Not being able to understand the wishes of their children, or their behavior, or their motivation for returning, and needing to blame someone they effected through devious means to have 2 members of the Hare Kṛṣṇa..."

Prabhupāda: He has used very nice strong words.

Hari-śauri: Hm. "They effected through devious means to have 2 members of the New York Hare Kṛṣṇa centers to be arrested. Therein lies the infection(?) of the injustice. To compound it, a judge and a grand jury agreed with their charges of unlawful imprisonment and brainwashing, a charge which is unheard of to my knowledge in civil legal proceedings, and ordered the devotees to be jailed. As a citizen I am appalled by the over-reaction, the lack of understanding, and the hate that finds wrongdoing, not only by the people that make the charges but by the court as well."

Haṁsadūta: He says the same thing.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Dr. Kneupper: What is your view towards Christianity?

Prabhupāda: Christianity is to some extent, but you have got different edition of Christianity. So far I know, as soon as they say, "Christian," immediately the question is, "To which Christian party you belong?" What is that?

Hari-śauri: Christians, yeah, Protestants, Methodists, Catholics...

Prabhupāda: So which is correct Christianity we do not know. But we have no such thing. There is no party. Bhagavad-gītā, there cannot be any party. If anyone makes any party, he is immediately cancelled. But at least we believe in the Ten Commandments. Now, Lord Jesus Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." But why all the Christians are simply busy in killing? That is my first question.

Dr. Kneupper: Not all of them.

Prabhupāda: 99%, they are maintaining all big, big slaughterhouse, all Christians. And Lord Jesus Christ ordered, "Thou shall not kill," but they are killing. What kind of Christian he is? Disobedience to the order of Christ? And still he is Christian? These things are going on. Then again party, this ism, that ism, that ism. First of all, all of them are disobeying the Ten Commandments, and then there are parties. So which one you'll accept?

Room Conversation -- November 20, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: People are so misled. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change this body. There is no preparation. "As sure as death." Death will take place, and you have to accept another body. Who understands this philosophy? Nobody. They are so dull-headed. This body finished, everything finished. All big, big leaders, scholars, they say. One gentleman, his name is... He was Rabindranath Tagore's brother, artist. So in a meeting he was saying, "We are so fool. Thinking of next life, next life, we are spoiling this life." He said like that long, long ago when we were children, young men, about eighteen years, twenty years. So I remember distinctly, he is saying in the meeting that "Simply thinking of next life, we are spoiling this life." He said. That was his explanation. So at that time we were young boys: "Yes, why we should think of, so much of next life?" Of course, I was not very much convinced, but naturally... I think his name Aurobindo Tagore, like that. Rabindranath Tagore. He is good artist. Artist means latest fashion, like this, like that, like that. He was considered to be latest artist. And his view is that. I talked with Professor Kotofsky. He said, "Swamiji, after finishing this body everything is finished." Communist. This is the cent per cent idea. The so-called scientists, they are thinking, by chemical evolution the body has come in existence. These things are discussed in Bhagavad-gītā. By accident, if it is a combination of chemicals, that means the bodily existence was not before. It has come in by accident, combination. "So why, Arjuna, you are lamenting for the body which was not in existence? And it will not exist after. Then why you are so much anxious for the middle portion?" Good reasoning. The body was not in existence. That is the general... And as soon as you finish, there is no more existence. So via media, between the manifestation and nonmanifestation, in the middle there is some manifesta... Why you are so much absorbed in that part?

Room Conversation -- November 24, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, it is Kṛṣṇa's service. Everyone is offering voluntary service. So not that anybody's paid and if he cannot, dismiss or... Yes. This bureaucracy is not... Train him. Train him. If he does not know, train him. But things must be done very nicely by cooperation. That is wanted. Everyone should remember that we are serving Kṛṣṇa, and everyone should remember, "The other person is serving Kṛṣṇa. And because he is serving Kṛṣṇa, he is not my servant; he is my master." That should be always in view. Therefore we address, prabhu: "You are my master." We never address, "You are my servant." We are trained up to say my brother, that "prabhu," "such and such prabhu." Prabhu means master. Nobody think himself that he is master. He should always think that everyone is his master because he's serving the master. This is our philosophy. So in this way... Now you have got good arrangement and they're all intelligent persons, young persons.

Akṣayānanda: All those people are here.

Prabhupāda: So kindly settle up and do nice things. That I want to see. That's all. He is also present. At that time he was not present. So go and...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. (devotees offer obeisances)

Prabhupāda: You should always remember that you are helping me. Without your help I cannot do anything, so you do not be disturbed. Try to help me. That is my request. Thank you very much. (Hindi) (end)

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: People applauded. This is foolishness. They do not know how to act. Just like if you pour water on the tree, then it is accepted that you are pouring water on the tree but that is not the process. The process is to pour water on the root of the tree. Practically we... You can make an experiment. Just like here is a tree. You don't pour water on the root but pour water on the leaves. Then it will dry in due course of time. It will not be effective. But if you pour water on the root, the water will go everywhere. So the whole thing is just like a tree. God is the origin of everything. He is the root. Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). Therefore He is the root. So if you pour water in the root, then the water is distributed everywhere. But if you pour water on the leaves, on the twigs, on the fruits, it will take time and it will not be successful. So one who is not in awareness of the laws of nature, they commit this mistake. We can say that pouring water on the leaves is also pouring water on the tree. By serving human being you can serve the Supreme Lord, but that is not the way. Another example is that if you supply food to the stomach, then the share is partaken by all the parts of the body. But if you supply food to the part of the body, it is not shared by other part of the body. They are opening hospital for men, human being, but what about the animals? They are also part and parcel of God. They are killing them. So they have no realization of God. God says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). Suppose I have got several sons. If you take care of my one son and you neglect others I will not be happy, naturally. But if you take care of all my sons, then I'll be happy. For a father there is no such distinction that "My particular son should be taken care of and other should be neglected or they should be killed." That is not father's view. So if God is the father of all living entities, if you take simply care of the human being, then what of the others? There are so many fallacies in this argument, by taking care of the human being you worship God. There are so many fallacies. Hm? Is it not? So you have to put this argument, that "By serving human society is to serve God"—that is not fact. That may be partially; it is not complete.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: He'll distribute the foodstuff to his sons. But if you take care one of the sons and don't take care of the other son, the father will never please. Very... That is not the way of pleasing the father. That is foolishness. You may say that "I am taking care of the best son," but to a father, either the best son or the lowest son, the same. Father does not make any..., "Because this is best son, he should be satisfied and the worst sons should be neglect." Father does not make. Father will like better that "You take care of my worst son first." And besides that, to take care of the human society, it is also bogus. Nobody can take care. There are so many problems in the human society how you can take care? But the real problem is—that is for everyone—janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. Either he is animal or human being or demigod or big man or small man or rich man or poor man, a learned man, foolish man, these problems are there, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. So if you take care of these problems, how to save them, all of them, from these four problems, that is real service. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). Otherwise temporary—"I am hungry. You give me some relief"—but that relief is temporary. I'll become again hungry. And if I come to you twice, thrice, you'll be disgusted. Neither you can. There are so many hungry men. But if with a view to solve his all problems of life, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi, if you take care of him, that is the best service.

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, also Lord Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā at the end that "One who surrenders to Me, he will be delivered from all material reactions and go to (indistinct)." But it is also said that some persons, they are more inclined to surrender than others.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You should surrender; you should request others to surrender. That is service.

Room Conversation -- December 20, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: If you explain, that is another... But interpretation.

Guest: That is the basic...

Prabhupāda: That is already there. What Kṛṣṇa says, you say.

Guest: No, that is all right. Not to go further. As an organization we want to know your views on those points.

Prabhupāda: Now what is the first point?

Jagadisa: "To collect all available materials and survey all institutions in India and abroad who are doing work based on Bhagavad-gītā so that we will have completely up to date library."

Prabhupāda: So I say what is the need of collecting? What Bhagavad-gītās you have got?

Guest: For information.

Prabhupāda: Information... Bhagavad-gītā, take information from Bhagavad-gītā. What others have said you have nothing to do.

Guest: Now for example, we should have literature on Gītā.

Prabhupāda: Then there will be no limit. There are so many, 600,000 interpretations. Then your life will be spend (indistinct) for collecting.

Devotee: If I want to go to Bombay, I must have the correct timetable. Not a false timetable.

Room Conversation with Fate -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Which is still continuing, but in a limited circle.

Rādhā-vallabha: "They come from a text which bears the most profound truths ever revealed to mankind. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2)." It's that series of verses. "This supreme science was received through the chain of disciplic succession and the saintly kings understood it in that way. But in course of time the succession was broken and therefore the science as it is appears to be lost. That very ancient science of the relationship with the Supreme is today told by Me to you because you are My devotee as well as My friend. Therefore you can understand the transcendental mystery of this science. Preserved by the invincible tradition of spiritual scholars known as the disciplic succession, these original words spoken by Lord Kṛṣṇa to one of his most intimate devotees were recorded in a book called Bhagavad-gītā, Sanskrit for the 'Song of God.' Today a unique presentation of this ancient classic has aroused keen interest and deep appreciation from leading scholars in diverse disciplines. It was brought to the West by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, who is a living link in the chain of disciplic succession. Bhagavad-gītā, long viewed with awe by many contemporary and early Western thinkers, is not a simple summary of the Hindu faith, although it is the book of truth for some five hundred million people. It is a scientific study of universal, spiritual truths, far above sectarian doctrines and ethnic beliefs. Bhagavad-gītā is a study of the nature and origin of consciousness. Śrīla Prabhupāda, the world's most distinguished scholar of Vedic writings and a true humanitarian, began his labor of love in this tiny room in a temple in one of India's holiest cities, Vṛndāvana." This is when the scene of your working in the Rādhā-Dāmodara room comes on. "Working often throughout the night, Śrīla Prabhupāda painstakingly carried out the request of his spiritual predecessor to bring the message of Bhagavad-gītā to the Western world."

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There are many Parsi families. But they wanted some friends. They were minority. Unless with the cooperation of the Indians, how they could stand? Therefore they introduced the zamindar system in Bengal, Bihar, Orissa. Some aristocratic families should cooperate with them. They knew how to rule over. Now by over-cooperating they have become hoax. That verse I very much like.

nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke

kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujām ye

tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ

śuddhyed yasmād brahma-saukhyaṁ tv anantam

(SB 5.5.1)

The human life is meant for purifying. They have lost this goal of life. Temporarily we are thinking if we make some comfortable arrangement for body, and that is sufficient. That is sufficient. Lost Vedic culture, ideal life, goal of life. (Hindi) At least in India it should... In other places they are... Therefore this movement's against them. Because we are preaching this philosophy just opposite to their views, they are taking it "brainwashed." Is that all right in your country?

Devotee: They accuse them of brainwashing. But actually...

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Guest (1): Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is only medicine. That is only remedy.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) ...directly presented, "Here is God." Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). "But why you are making research and wasting time, 'Whether God is person or imperson or this or that? What is His...?' Here is God."

Guest (1): That is the material view, to analyze all these things.

Prabhupāda: God is personally presenting Himself, aham. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). Still, people cannot understand.

Guest (1): Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate.

Prabhupāda: But they are so dull-headed, they can't understand.

Guest (1): They can't understand. They have no imagination, nothing at all, no sight.

Prabhupāda: Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati (BG 7.3). God is presenting Himself, and still, the rascals will not understand. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15).

Guest (1): Māyayāpahṛta jñānā āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ.

Prabhupāda: God is presenting Himself, and still, they cannot understand, such a mūḍha, duṣkṛtino, narādhamāḥ.

Guest (1): We have to wash that ignorance, giving the message to the...

Prabhupāda: No... (Hindi) Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etām.

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You are not attending Kumbha Mela. You are going to Delhi from here.

Jagadīśa: I'm thinking about going to Kumbha Mela first, for a couple of days.

Prabhupāda: Anywhere, this is our main program. Print books as many as possible and distribute. This is our main program. All other programs are secondary. So with this aim in view, work all together. Our Caitanya-caritāmṛta is unique literature. For Caitanya-caritāmṛta, we are above any ācārya. There are four ācāryas: Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī... But our Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's legacy, ācārya's, that is unique. Anarpita-cariṁ cirāt karuṇayāvatīrṇa kalau. Here the Supreme Personality of Godhead is personally teaching-ācārya. Anarpita-cariṁ cirāt karuṇayāvatīrṇa kalau samarpayitum unnatojjvala-rasam. The highest topmost bliss, madhurya. These dealings of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, madhurya-rasa, is the contribution of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. All other ācāryas, they could not give up to this. All other ācāryas, they contributed up to friendship, no vatsalya, neither madhurya. That is this contribution of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. There was dealings of mother Yasoda with Kṛṣṇa in the Bhāgavata. The Vallabhācāryas'...,they have got Bala-kṛṣṇa. But the dealings of gopīs with Kṛṣṇa, that was not granted. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's contribution. Anarpita-carim means was never contributed. Anarpita-cariṁ cirāt karuṇayāvatīrṇa kalau samarpayitum unnatojjvala-rasaṁ sva-bhakti-sriyam, hariḥ pūvata-sundara-dyuti-kadamba-sandipitaḥ sadā hṛdaya-kandare sphurati... That is the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. How do they like Caitanya-caritāmṛta in Western...?

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Satsvarūpa: Oh. All debauches.

Prabhupāda: All debauch. Because they're getting fat salary. What they'll do? They do not know how to use it. Wine, woman, restaurant, dance-finish. So we have got very pessimistic view of this modern world. You may like or not. Simply spoiling time. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply work without any profit of the human form of life. And nobody is interested to correct the procedure. If we try to correct them, they will accuse us that "These people are brainwashed. They deviating these young men from the general procedure of human civilization." Hm? What is this? Illicit sex stopped? Then where is life? This is life, if young boys and young girls mix freely and have sex, and as soon as she is pregnant, you go away, let her suffer, no responsibility. The poor girl, long before, father, mother divorce—no protector. And as soon as she selects somebody husband, and as soon as pregnancy, he goes away. And old age—there is no family, no son. Ninety-nine percent the woman class live like that. How hopelessly the old ladies are sitting down—only one cat, one dog, one television. The old men also like that, hopelessness. Or drinking or seeing the television. And a dog friend. Is that life? And we want to correct it—"brainwash."

Gurukṛpā: They are so... They have no brain to even understand this. You cannot talk to them.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The chairman gave me a nice letter saying that this is the first type of seminar that he has ever heard in his life. (Prabhupāda chuckles) We made the presentation sound very scientific. We had the slide projection on one side, and this overhead projection on the other side. So it made a good presentation so that people can be attracted. It was quite effective. In fact, it was the most effective so far we have seen, because it was very colorful, the pictures, and we were comparing the fundamental concept of the Absolute Truth as it is understood by modern science and the defects of it, and then what is the alternative, the alternative view. We call it the other alternative scientific view. That is from... We speak about the Second Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, about the nature of life, about the nature of the self. We've taken that it's nonchemical and nonphysical. Then we try to explain it in terms of scientific terminologies and scientific language.

Prabhupāda: The, that verse, that "It does not burn, it does not..."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Nainam... Yes.

Prabhupāda: Nainaṁ chindanti... That is the nonphysical.

Hari-śauri: Like a comparative study chart.

Prabhupāda: We are presenting śāstric version in modern scientific symbolic representative. So the chairman said that he never...?

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Here's the letter with me. These are the... That's a comparison between Bhagavad-gītā and science. On the left side is the modern scientific view, and the right side is from Bhagavad-gītā about the nature of the Absolute Truth.

Prabhupāda: "Two alternative views of the laws of nature. These laws exist, but they are inconceivable to the human mind. The view of modern science—yes. They exist invariantly throughout space—yes. They do not change with time—yes. They control all manifestation—no." What that is, mean?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Modern science. On Bhagavad-gītā... On the right column is from Bhagavad-gītā, the right-hand side, the alternative... We do not call Bhagavad-gītā directly, but we say "the alternative view," so that they do not immediately be offended. We call "alternative scientific view." (break)

Prabhupāda: Now some person...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. It's very interesting that science says that those equations at the bottom are the... Those are the ultimate truth, the modern science, about these mathematical equations. So if we analyze this on the analytical basis, they are like this—those mathematical equations. So this is the concept of Absolute Truth in terms of science. And these are atoms and molecules or, we call it, fundamental particles. And so the spring between the two is some sort of electromagnetic force in the different..., among different particles. So this is the concept of Absolute Truth in terms of science. And we analyzed this in terms of our practical experience, from our day-to-day experience, and we gave some nice examples like this. This is a crocodile from... It's a male crocodile from South Africa in Scientific American a few months ago. There he's trying to break an egg just to come out, that little young one, the small baby crocodile. And what he does is...

Prabhupāda: They come out from egg?

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Then give an alternative view and see which one is based on more real knowledge. Then they'll accept. Otherwise they will not.

Prabhupāda: So that duty is now entrusted to you, in your hands. Do it very nicely. Kṛṣṇa will help you. (break)

Jayapatākā: ...to disprove them. But we have the true fact, but they cannot... Then let them disprove that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayapatākā: When the people all understand our philosophy then they'll have to disprove us. Otherwise they won't stand. Why we should disprove their nonsense? They haven't proved it yet.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Well, at the moment they're the majority. So majority carries the vote. That's the slogan. But if they're open-minded, if they are honest... We say, "Be honest, be frank, and be open-minded. Why you confine your small theory?"

Prabhupāda: No, they are not open-minded. They have to be pushed within the water. (laughs)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's our first remark, "Please let's be open-minded. We are not dogmatic. We're not presenting something religious, fanatic. But let's discuss in open platform, see which one is..."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is our argument. Just like this plant is coming out of the womb of mother. Everything comes from the mother. So there must be father. Anything you see, it is coming from earth. Earth is the mother. Dhenu-dhātrī. So where is the father? "I cannot see." You cannot see? That does not mean there is no father. There must be father. And the father says, "Yes!" Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). Bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). The answer is there.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And that is good for human being. That you have to convince. And actually that is fact. They are in ignorance. And they are advertising as scientist, philosopher-false propaganda. That is my view from the very beginning. They are nothing, all bokās. My Guru Mahārāja used to say. In the beginning I could not understand, that "Why he says everyone is bokā?" (laughs) Actually that is fact. They do not know the value of life.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are criticizing us because we say every one of them is demons. They don't like that.

Prabhupāda: Prahlāda Mahārāja said his father, demon. Asura-varya. Tat sādhu manye asura-varya: "Best of the demons. My dear best of the demons." (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I mean that's why... Just like in that Back to Godhead. The thing is that some of our devotees are becoming a little bit...

Prabhupāda: Influenced.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Influenced, and they're a little scared, you know. They're fearful.

Hari-śauri: They don't want to upset people.

Prabhupāda: That you should not be.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: They pay for scientific lecture. When there is some scientific lecture...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. We are going to charge high also this time. That's going to be... It involves a lot of hard work, and the scientific community will be open for this type of.... We are not saying something dogmatic. We are presenting in such a manner that it's very scientific and it's ready for discussion. There's no way that they can check it, that "It's coming from this movement. So, no, that's no knowledge." It must be open. It must be open-minded. We must change our views. And if you feel that our views are inferior, then you tell us. If it's inferior, then there is no reason that you shouldn't take it seriously.

Prabhupāda: So when Bombay festival will go on, your presence will be required.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. I'll be coming... I already requested Girirāja to make a few engagements so that... I'd like them to speak. This time I will let them speak, our two scientists, because Americans. And I want to see the reactions also. I already know my situation there, and I want to let them speak, and they are very eager to do that. I already talked with them. So I requested Girirāja to make a few very high academic circles like Atomic Research Center. One of our men is very good in quantum physics. He can talk all about this mathematical formulations and a little bit about Bhagavad-gītā consciousness. So that would be...

Prabhupāda: That will be... (chuckles)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...very impressive to the Indian audience.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: These rascals, wherever they go, they create trouble.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading:) "Why she was silent." This is from the Readers View column. "In the farewell talk she gave to the outgoing Communist Party members of Parliament, Mrs. Indira Gandhi is reported to have told them that she was to blame for the rout, but she does not mention what is common talk among people everywhere, and especially among the village folk: her connivance at the build-up of her son Sanjay Gandhi as the probable future prime minister of India. Mrs. Indira Gandhi's refusal throughout the last two years to face the facts about her son's inordinate ambitions has shocked most of her admirers. Could she not see that this get-rich-quick son of a mother who swore by Garibihato, as the person running the maruti,(?) was playing ducks and drakes with money taken in advance from motor agents for a people's car which has still to come on the road? Was she unaware that he was put next to the late president of India on the flagship of the Indian navy at the naval parade, though he has no position in the government of our country? And is it possible that she did not know of his interference from her own house in the exercise of executive authority in many matters of appointments? Did she not see newspaper reports of vast gatherings often paid for and brought to the pandals by her chief ministers to provide an audience and popular build-up for the Raj Kumar, as he came to be called? Those of us who knew her father are sanguined that Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru could never have allowed himself to entertain a dynastic order."

Prabhupāda: He wanted.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Good place.

Mr. Dwivedi: This is the... I think I got a view of that temple.

Prabhupāda: Good engagement. So Kārttika, you are coming?

Kārttikeya: If you're not going to Kashmir, I'll come with you.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Kārttikeya: If you are not going to Kashmir for the month of May...

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Kārttikeya: ...then I will come.

Mr. Dwivedi: This is the view of that temple, Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Mr. Dwivedi: This Jagamandir.

Prabhupāda: Very good temple. Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa?

Conversation with Shri Narayan -- May 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Vedic culture (Hindi) (Hindi conversation) Within ten years I have already written eighty-four books.

Shri Narayan: Eighty-four books. (rest of conversation in Hindi, with few interspersed English words, until Shri Narayan and his associates leave)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everybody's appreciating this view. All the ladies were standing on the balcony.

Prabhupāda: So immediately contact Jayadal and Dalmia, and he has got a nice house. We go to Hrishikesh immediately. It is very nice. Or Patel.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Or Bhogilal.

Prabhupāda: Then we haven't got to go Kashmir.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So first we'll contact Bhogilal because he's in the city. If he cannot arrange, then we'll immediately contact Jayadal. Yeah, they're such close friends...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...they'll immediately do.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And Hrishikesh is known to be very good. Gaṅgā is there.

Prabhupāda: So we can go there immediately. That decided.

Evening Darsana -- May 15, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Pradyumna: Translation: "The Blessed Lord said, One who is unattached to the fruits of his work and who works as he is obligated is in the renounced order of life, and he is the true mystic, not he who lights no fire and performs no work." Purport: "In this chapter the Lord explains that the process of the eightfold yoga system is a means to control the mind and the senses. However, this is very difficult for people in general to perform, especially in the age of Kali. Although the eightfold yoga system is recommended in this chapter, the Lord emphasizes that the process of karma-yoga, or acting in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is better. Everyone acts in this world to maintain his family and their paraphernalia, but no one is working without some self interest, some personal gratification, be it concentrated or extended. The criterion of perfection is to act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and not with a view to enjoying the fruits of work. To act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the duty of every living entity because all are constitutionally parts and parcels of the Supreme. The parts of the body work for the satisfaction of the whole body. The limbs of the body do not act for self-satisfaction but for the satisfaction of the complete whole. Similarly, the living entity who acts for satisfaction of the supreme whole and not for personal satisfaction is the perfect sannyāsī, the perfect yogi. The sannyāsīs sometimes artificially think that they have become liberated from all material duty, and therefore they cease to perform agni-hotra yajñas, or fire sacrifices. But actually, they are self-interested because their goal is becoming one with the impersonal Brahman. Such a desire is greater than any material desire, but it is not without self-interest. Similarly, the mystic yogi who practices the yoga system with half-open eyes, ceasing all material activities, desires some satisfaction for his personal self, but a person acting in Kṛṣṇa consciousness works for the satisfaction of the whole without self-interest. A Kṛṣṇa conscious person has no desire for self-satisfaction. His criterion of success is the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa, and thus he is a perfect sannyāsī or perfect yogi. Lord Caitanya, the highest perfectional symbol of renunciation, prays in this way,

na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ

kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye

mama janmani janmanīśvare

bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi

(Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4)

"O Almighty Lord, I have no desire to accumulate wealth, nor to enjoy beautiful women, nor do I want any number of followers. What I want only is the causeless mercy of Your devotional service in my life birth after birth."

Prabhupāda: There is any inquiry about...?

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, I have seen. They are always busy. Always.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In our New York building we have two elevators. And that impresses people when they come there to see. If you own a building with two elevators in it, it's a big thing.

Prabhupāda: It goes up to the roof.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And the roof is quite nice. When the viewers see...

Prabhupāda: Very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You were sitting on it. Prabhupāda would sit up there in the evening, and he even took massage sometimes. The most... Excuse me, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Very nice roof.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The special feature of that roof is that for some reason there are no tall buildings around our building. Sometimes people say, "Your movement has come a long way from Second Avenue."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Conversation with Bhakti-caitanya Swami-New GBC -- June 30, 1977, Vrindaban:

Bhakti-caitanya: He was the first man when we have our...

Prabhupāda: What we expect from Vajpayee? First thing, what he has proposed, give us this permanent residency...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Permanent residency

Prabhupāda: Let us see how he...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the main thing we want.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If he has good mind, he'll give you, either Mr. Gupta goes or not. But if he has got any political view, either Gupta goes or not goes, he'll not.... First plan, interest, is for that. (end)

Bhu-mandala Discussion -- July 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So we don't say differently. You can go this way.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we don't say that. Because there's no round, we say... Simply it's a lotus. It's not...

Prabhupāda: No, I... It is the same example. Just a animal is bound up, so he's going this round or this round, the same thing. But you cannot go beyond that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That they'll... "We accept." I take the view of the scientists.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Yes. We don't say. Suppose you are going round, you'll go this round or this round, but within the round.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. But the whole question we're saying is that we say, "No, you can only go one way."

Prabhupāda: No, I don't say.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But according to our...

Prabhupāda: If you are going round, you can go round this way or that way.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But there is no round.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is round. You are thinking round. You are going round... (end)

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "Actually in America, when you criticize someone who is highly regarded, people are very interested to read it. That is the American spirit. So I think by purposely singling out historical figures who are considered good welfare workers and showing that actually their welfare platform failed, it will make interesting reading and will help to establish the real platform of welfare in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I also want very much to write this book on men..." And then it says here, he says, "I... We decided on a number of historical figures. Because they lacked Kṛṣṇa in their philosophy and activities, their program for welfare failed. I want to deal with the figure of Mahatma Gandhi and also with the daridra-nārāyaṇa philosophy which was taught before his time by Ramakrishna and Vivekananda." He says, "When viewed in the light of Bhāgavata philosophy, these personalities will have to be criticized for their failure to put Kṛṣṇa in their teachings. My question is whether there is any objection on your part to a book which will criticize Ramakrishna and Vivekananda."

Prabhupāda: I think that is not good. You should go positively instead of attacking some particular person. They will never admit that they have been failure.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, but we can prove that they are. See, his whole point of his book is that he wants to attack others.

Prabhupāda: No. That will not be good. That will create a section of enemy.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Śatadhanya: That means we strictly adhere to the śāstra.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "In their view, controverted by most Western scholars..." Most Western scholars are in controversy with us about our view. "The basic Vedic documents form a constant theistic doctrine first presented to mankind five thousand years ago."

Prabhupāda: Just see. Such a good certificate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Satsvarūpa, American-born personal secretary to Swami Bhaktivedanta, presents the official Hare Kṛṣṇa approach." They don't even identify you. They know who you are. You are so well known in these literary circles now that someone says, "Swami Bhaktivedanta." They don't have to say "Founder of ISKCON." They know already from your other books. "...presents the official Hare Kṛṣṇa approach in an articulate and highly serviceable introduction to this immense body of literature. The readings include the Īśopaniṣad, the Bhagavad-gītā and excerpts from Purāṇas, supplemented with a glossary and index. Preliminary essays detail the logic by which his group rejects both the academic experts and the rival approach of advaita-vedānta that Westerners know through the writings of Vivekananda and Radhakrishnan. This is a book long needed to balance out the monist theology that is but one aspect of Indian religious thought." In other words, this is one of the first books to present the Vaiṣṇava viewpoint, not simply the Māyāvādī viewpoint. He says, "It's well needed." That's all he's written.

Prabhupāda: Very appreciated. Very much appreciate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Satsvarūpa writes that this will very much help the... He says it will help its sales in America. Then this article...

Prabhupāda: It is very thoughtful article.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Govardhana Hill?

Vrindavan De: Govardhana. (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) So do you know anything about Bengal situation?

Vrindavan De: I think it's okay now.

Prabhupāda: What is the Communist view?

Vrindavan De: Communist view?

Prabhupāda: They don't want religion? What is this leader? Ajit Bose?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jyoti Bose.

Vrindavan De: No, he's not the man of that sort. He's very serious type of man.

Prabhupāda: But Bengal is now full of rogues and rascals and dacoits, everywhere. Practically whole Bengal is full of these elements.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: More than other places.

Vrindavan De: The Congress Minister is very much serious person.

Prabhupāda: Anywhere you are going, anywhere, you can be attacked.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Any train, anywhere.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is recommending. All libraries.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: " '...should have on its shelf these works.' " Next is a letter from Trinvak Govind Meinpark(?), Professor of Sanskrit and Head of the Department at the University of Bombay. " 'His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, the renowned Vedic scholar and founder-ācārya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, has translated into English the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Caitanya-caritāmṛta, the Encyclopedia of Vedic Culture.' " Now it's getting to be known like that. " 'The special feature of this publication is to be seen in the explanatory notes, added with a view to summing up the purport of the passages rendered. The Bhāgavatam is a classic of the Kṛṣṇa cult, and in the manner of sweetness, sincerity of devotion and purity of emotion, it surpasses all other texts of the Purāṇas, as well as other texts of the Bhāgavata religion. As such it is no wonder that it has become a veritable scripture of the devotees of this cult. Again, of all incarnations of the highest Lord, the Kṛṣṇa incarnation has a peculiar fascination for the Indian mind and has all along exercised a great influence over the Hindu religious mind—in fact, of all minds that have God consciousness. The Lord's grace, His interest and deep concern for His devotees and even for sinners, His great love for all beings without any distinction of order, caste, creed, and sex, His ever-willingness to look after all ardent devotees, His extreme sweetness, all these qualities have made Him the most easily lovable of the divine manifestations. The text of the Bhāgavata, scenes of the whole life of the Lord from His childhood to His withdrawal from the world, yet the philosophical aspects receive greater emphasis than the historical ones.' " Not simply that it's some stories, but full of philosophy. " 'Along with the Bhāgavata, the Caitanya-caritāmṛta has received as much care and attention in the translation by Śrīla Prabhupāda. The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust is presenting these two sets as an encyclopedia of our culture, and our university has made a standing order of these volumes, which our students delight in reading.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He converted that hunter, Mṛgāri. He was killing, but then he would not trample even on one ant.

Prabhupāda: So that is being done now. So he has to judge from this intelligence. We do not maintain any political view, what American government or Indian government... We want the whole people of the world, let them become human being. That is our movement. What is this? Simply killing business is going on. All governments should cooperate, pushing on this movement for humanity's sake.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually in Communist countries now, Eastern Europe, in the universities, they are cooperating. But why these Bengali Marxists, they are not? The Communists are cooperating.

Prabhupāda: They know that we are the only enemy against their movement. Let me...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A letter has come from Haridāsa. In Bombay, your disciple, Haridāsa Brahmacārī? (break)

Prabhupāda: ...by good association. This is the result of our movement. (break) (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhakti-caru? Should I call for him?

Prabhupāda: Hmm... Such nice color display, and there is no brain. The animal-killer civilization, Western country, has killed all their brain, good sense, good sentiment, everything.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. I think I have got six thousand pounds.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a good amount.

Prabhupāda: At least for few months I can continue. This is first business. Do it. And another point, that formerly the Britishers expanded empire. Now we have got better service. They... You expand the empire of consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is also the same view, but it is spiritual. Kṛṣṇa has given you the ability. Do it enthusiastically with the courage of an Englishman and the heart of a Bengali mother.

Prabhaviṣṇu: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Bangladesh when we were doing programs, after the programs we'd distribute books, and there was such a great rush for books that we had to stay inside a locked room and sell the books through bars in the window.

Prabhupāda: That's very encouraging.

Prabhaviṣṇu: Everywhere we went the people would...

Prabhupāda: The best thing is that in Bangladesh you get foreign exchange. You print books there. It think it is cheaper there. Never mind for the quality, but you'll get good number of books. The government will be pleased.

Prabhaviṣṇu: Yes. Then we can export the books also into West Bengal.

Room Conversation -- October 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Kīrtanānanda: Yes. Tourist attraction. It will. Already it is that. The walls of the temple room, they are all marble. This is your study room. It has a marble floor. This is the marble floor. And the walls are all being done in marble in this pattern. This is the bedroom floor. This is the lower portion of the bedroom walls, and this is the upper portion, all done in these little... These is all onyx, and these are marble. And these are the outside doors. It's all ornamental carved concrete.

Prabhupāda: You have got so many artists.

Kīrtanānanda: This is a view of the outside near the top railing.

Prabhupāda: How they learned so much?

Kīrtanānanda: (laughs) Kṛṣṇa's in the heart. Nobody's ever done this before. This is the bracket that goes under the sun shade. This is a view of Bahulaban farm. This is the big guesthouse that is just completed, and this is another new building that has gone up since you've been there. This will be a utility building for all different kinds of shops where they can make jewelry and cast concrete and carpenter shops and all different shops. So we all thank you very much, because it is only by your grace we have gotten this inspiration.

Prabhupāda: Besides that, whenever you require money, you can ask. He'll give.

Kīrtanānanda: Thank you, Prabhupāda. I prefer to give it. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: No. Give and take. (break) You are fulfilling my dream, New Vrindaban. I dreamt all these things. Wonderful things have been done. He is the first student, from the very beginning. When I was in the storefront he was bringing carpet, bench, some gong, some lamp. In this way...

Room Conversation With Svarupa Damodara -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yesterday... Last night some of the scientists were asking how our Gurukula boys here studying Sanskrit. Some of them were telling that they have given up to study Sanskrit because they want to study the English. So how the change of views. The Westerners are trying to learn Sanskrit, and they're saying that they are giving up. So he had a strange feeling how these things are happening. Then I told him that Śrīla Prabhupāda sometimes commented that in the future we are importing brāhmaṇas from the West so that we can learn even the brahminical culture from the Western world. So he was telling me that that is now becoming a fact, how the Western devotees are taking so seriously in trying to spread the message of Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world. (break)

Bhāgavata: ...were all banging on the drums and the karatālas. They started going, "Hare Kṛṣṇa! Hari bol!" very loud, tumultuous sound. All the devotees were very happy. That sound shall go everywhere in the world. Everywhere the devotees... (break)

Jayādvaita: I'm bewildered again. Kṛṣṇa's again doing something impossible.

Prabhupāda: Possible or impossible (break) It is not very...

Room Conversation -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One thing I noticed though is that Mr. Goswami, the accountant, the cashier, and Mr. Dugal, when they were leaving, they seemed to be much more..., I don't know if you could say friendly, but they were far more respectful now. I think that they have been a little bit humbled by this incident. They always used to tell us that "We don't care for your money. You must follow the rules. Even if we lose your money, we don't care, but you must stick to the rules." But they seemed a little humbled today, a little changed in their view. I don't think that they ever suspected that they would lose our deposits like this. I think now they'll make much more of an effort. I would expect so. Right?

Girirāja: Oh, yes. Now they're going to make every effort not to annoy us in any way.

Prabhupāda: Very carefully deal, and as far as possible, don't keep money in the bank. Invest in books and expansion. That is my request. If you keep money, there will be so much trouble. So the current account and savings account, ten days' notice, these things are to be done.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What did Prabhupāda ask?

Girirāja: Whether on the savings account we have to give ten-day notice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We didn't discuss that yet. We don't have any current accounts any longer. We changed them all to savings accounts.

Prabhupāda: So when you have to withdraw, you have to give ten days' notice?

Room Conversation With Bharadvaja -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bharadvāja: The last portion of the exhibition is called "The Perfection of Life," and it is comprised of two portions, two parts. The first part describes the process of self-realization, and the second part is called the transcendence into the spiritual world, with emphasis on the reality of transcendental variegatedness and personality. That means we're actually going to try to give the viewer an experience of becoming purified. His senses are gradually becoming purified through the process of self-realization, and then we take him through the different spiritual realizations. And then the last part is Vṛndāvana-līlā of Kṛṣṇa, to show that the Lord is a perfect person and that everyone has a place in His personal service in the spiritual world. So this is the... That's the simple outline, and I have another portion here which deals a little more elaborately. I'll just read some of the things to you. So we call the introduction to the exhibition, we call it "The Overture." In this introduction there are several points. The first point is that we are not made up of... We're showing what is the body. So we're showing that the body is made up of different elements. And there's a film that shows how the man is made up of different component parts We are showing that different organs are just like different machines and mechanical systems, and that life is consciousness and that consciousness is different from and did not come from matter. So we're showing that the heart is like a pump, and lungs are like bellows, and the eyes are like cameras, and the ears are like tape recorders, and the brain is like a computer, and so on. But behind all of these machines there is the witness, there is the seer, or the soul. So he is different from all these different machines. Then we show... We take everything down to smaller and smaller particles, and we bring everything down to atomic structure, and then we show that there does not seem to be any purpose to this. So where is life? Are we just...? My life is full of purpose, so where is the life here? Can we be just molecules? Where does life begin? On this portion of the exhibit we are working with Svarūpa Dāmodara and the Bhaktivedanta Institute to make a scientific presentation.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This Tulasī dāsa has sent different things. Here's a news clipping from the Leader. It's a newspaper. It says, "Hare Kṛṣṇa festivity. All roads lead to the Hare Kṛṣṇa farm āśrama at Cato Ridge last Sunday where thousands of well-wishers and devotees celebrated Kṛṣṇa Janmāṣṭamī. His Holiness Śrīmān Jayatīrtha dāsa Prabhu came out especially from the United States for the occasion and to officiate at the opening of the new temple of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness." One picture shows the devotees... It says, "Members of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness and followers of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda lead the crowd in the singing of Hare Kṛṣṇa kīrtana. In the foreground is the havana-kuṇḍa on which the sacrificial prayer was performed prior to the opening of the new temple. A view of the large gathering...," it shows thousands of people, Śrīla Prabhupāda, "...at the Hare Kṛṣṇa farm āśrama at Cato Ridge at the weekend when the new temple was officially opened. The function was held in conjunction with Lord Kṛṣṇa's birth anniversary celebrations." Here's the temple. "Head of the group, Tulasī dāsa, seen with other devotees in front of their new temple." It's a very beautiful temple with pillars and arches. I don't know how they built it so soon. (laughs) It's a big temple they built there. It says, "The International Society for Krishna Consciousness, more widely known as the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, opened its temple to coincide with the celebration of the birth of Lord Kṛṣṇa. This birthday celebration..." (break) Here's another article, pictures of devotees opening the temple. Another article. "Śrīmān Jayatīrtha dāsa Prabhu, one of the top officials..."

Prabhupāda: Still, they criticize us. Hm? Affirmations(?) good character, good health...

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, really?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It was printed in The Statesman.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want to hear it?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Can't read it? Okay. Is there a flashlight? The heading, Śrīla Prabhupāda, says, "The nonphysical view on the origin of species." Nonphysical view. "Materialists and men of faith continue to disagree over the origins of life. According to the first group, life is derived from atoms and molecules. The Russian scientist Dr. A. I. Oparin has been propagating this view since 1957. But the challengers demand 'really solid examples of life arising from matter.' " The challengers don't accept it, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says here the challengers want some solid proof that life comes from matter. They're not willing to be duped simply by this man's statement. They want to see some real examples. "At a three-day international conference on 'Life Comes from Life' at Vṛndāvana last week at the Bhaktivedanta Institute, it was stressed..." Śrīla Prabhupāda, do you want it Bhaktivedanta Institute or Bhaktivedanta Swami?

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's all right.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's all right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It doesn't matter. "...Bhaktivedanta Institute, it was stressed that life was independent of matter and dependent on higher principles lying beyond the present limitations of physics and chemistry. The assumption that life itself was nonphysical was the key note. The conference was opened by Dr. Prem Kripal, former president of the executive board of UNESCO. Three lectures were delivered by Dr. Thoudam D. Singh, director of the Institute; Mr. Robert Cohen, a geologist from USA; and Dr. Michael Marchetti, a theoretical chemist and student of the philosophy of science; on the fundamental nature of life and matter, new findings in paleontology and their effect on the theory of evolution, and the social consequences of the materialistic view of life. The philosophical foundations of life was the theme by discourse by Dr. S. R. Bhatt, associate professor of philosophy at Delhi University. Dr. Richard Thompson, a mathematician from Cornell University, and Mr. David Webb from England dealt with the application of information theory to the theory of evolution, thermodynamics and the origin of life. The limitations of science were discussed by Dr. A. Ramaya, professor of Biochemistry of the All-India Institute of Medical Science. Dr. Singh opposed the theory that life could be understood solely in terms of chemical combinations. There was intricate features of life, ranging from the structures of molecules and living cells to the subtle ones of human personality. The simple push-pull laws of chemistry and physics cannot account for these phenomena, and life and matter are understood as two distinct kinds of energy. Mr. Cohen said that the proof of Darwinian theory of evolution must depend in the end on the fossil record. Darwin's theory required that all the different species of life were gradually transformed, one into another, through many small changes or mutations. 'Yet prominent paleontologists such as Eldridge and Gould are now maintaining that the fossil record only supports the view that species remain static in form and that changes between them, if they do really occur at all, can only occur by abrupt leaps.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda wants you to read it.

Guest (2): "The nonphysical view on the origin of species." (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Our... Our. O.B.L. Kapoor.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your Godbrother.

Guest (2): What does he say?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says life comes from atoms and molecules, Dr. Kapoor. This is his conclusion after all these years reading Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy. He said like that in the conference.

Guest (2): He said?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right, Svarūpa Dāmodara?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, something like that, very vague. Complete misunderstanding.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was his point in the conference?

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But he quotes from the Ramakrishna.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In his book that he wrote, Dr. Kapoor quoted the great authority Ramakrishna. (laughter)

Jayādvaita: "The Russian scientist Dr. A. I. Oparin has been propagating this view since 1957, but his challengers demand 'really solid examples of life arising from matter.' At a three-day international conference on life comes from life at Vṛndāvana last week at the Bhaktivedanta Institute, it was stressed that life was independent of matter and dependent on higher principles lying beyond the present limitations of physics and chemistry. The assumption that life itself was nonphysical was the keynote. The conference was opened by Dr. Prem Kripal, former president of the executive board of UNESCO. Three lectures were delivered by Dr. Thoudam D. Sing, director of the Institute; Mr. Robert Cohen, a geologist from the USA; and Dr. Michael Marchetti, a theoretical chemist and student of the philosophy of science on the fundamental nature of life and matter, new findings in paleontology and their effect on the theory of evolution, and the social consequences of a materialistic view of life. The philosophical foundations of life was the theme of a discourse by Dr. S. R. Bhatt, associate professor of philosophy at Delhi University. Dr. Richard Thompson, a mathematician from Cornell University, and Mr. David Webb from England dealt with the application of information theory to the theory of evolution, thermo-dynamics and the origin of life. The limitations of science were discussed by Dr. A. Ramaya, professor of biochemistry at the All-India Institute of Medical Science. Dr. Singh opposed the theory that life could be understood solely in terms of chemical combinations. There were intricate features of life ranging from the structure of molecules in living cells to the subtle ones of human personality. The simple push-pull laws of chemistry and physics 'cannot account for these phenomena,' and 'life and matter are understood as two distinct kinds of energy.' Mr. Cohen said that 'Proof of the Darwinian theory of evolution must depend in the end on the fossil record. Darwin's theory required that all the different species of life were gradually transformed one into another through many small changes, mutations. Yet prominent paleontologists such as Eldridge and Gould are now maintaining that the fossil record only supports the view that species remain static in form and that changes between them, if they do really occur at all, can only occur by abrupt leaps. An examination of possible causes for such leaps shows that they could only be accounted for by the action of a higher intelligence,' he said.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: "First point: To systematically propagate spiritual knowledge to the residents and the visitors of Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi. Second point: To propagate the consciousness of Kṛṣṇa, as it is revealed in Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and to propagate that Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Lord Kṛṣṇa Himself, as is revealed in Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta and the Caitanya Bhāgavata. 3) To bring all the members of ā together nearer to Lord Caitanya and thus develop within humanity at large that each soul is a part and parcel of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. 4) To teach and encourage the saṅkīrtana movement of congregational chanting of the holy names of God given in the teachings of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. 5) To erect temples, schools, colleges, universities, institutes of higher studies, hospitals and other buildings with or for the advancement of the objects of the Trust and to maintain, alter and improve the same, including existing buildings, and to furnish and equip the same. 6) In keeping with the spirit of the previous ācārya's vision of Gauḍīya-Mādhva sampradāya, to cement relations with all the sister temples of Gauḍīya-Mādhva sampradāya under one banner, to solidify preaching the message of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as desired by His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Prabhupāda and Śrīla Ṭhākura Bhaktivinoda and all the previous ācāryas in this line. 7) With a view to achieving the aforementioned purposes and to publish and distribute periodicals, magazines, and other books and other items. 8) To do all such other things for the attainment of the objects of the Trust. 9) Trustee members are appointed lifetime. The members should always be seven. 10) A meeting once a year at Śrīdhāma Māyāpur during Gaura-Pūrṇimā. 11) There should be a chairman, a treasurer, and a secretary elected each year. 12) A quorum of at least five members." Finishes.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They haven't even published one book.

Akṣayānanda: They must say these things.

Bhavānanda: Of course, Śrīla Prabhupāda, another view is that we've constructed such attractive facilities here, and the purpose is to attract people to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if we let out this auditorium in Bombay and here in Vṛndāvana, so those people will come. They may be Māyāvādī... Actually everyone is Māyāvādī today. So it's a good opportunity for preaching if we're strong.

Prabhupāda: Preaching means to convert Māyāvādīs to Vaiṣṇava. Otherwise where is the need of preaching?

Bhavānanda: Preaching also means risk.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No risk. We take money from them. So we get some money. That is our gain. So anything, do very carefully.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you said we should have a sign, "No Māyāvādī Meetings Allowed."

Prabhupāda: No. If this is allowed free.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Well, this wasn't free. They're paying for being here. They're paying to be here.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, here. We... Just describe.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We had a science conference here in Gurukula just about a little more than a week ago.

Śrī Nārāyaṇa: Here in this new building?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, the same building, at the same hall that you're going to hold your conference. I invited several scholars, scientists around Delhi and Agra. Also Śrīla Prabhupāda's disciples, scientist disciples, came from around the world. The basic theme was to show that life is coming from the supreme life. In other words everything is coming from Kṛṣṇa. But modern science says that we are just product of atoms and molecules.

Haṁsadūta: This is an article which was published in The Statesman, October 22nd, which covers this meeting. It says, "The Nonphysical View on the Origin of Species. Materialists and men of faith continue to disagree over the origins of life. According to the first group life is..." (break)

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And above all, our whole program here is completely transcendental. It's just like Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī said. Your consciousness is so sublime that it's just wonderful at every moment to be with you. I mean, although I wish that you were... We all wish that you were completely healthy, yet at the same time we have never experienced so much nice exchanges with you. I mean we all... Every moment is so relishable to be with you. So I mean, even this puzzlement is very transcendental. None of us see any of this in any kind of a mundane view. It's all due to your consciousness being so Kṛṣṇa conscious, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I mean to me this puzzlement is simply another proof of the existence of Kṛṣṇa, 'cause Kṛṣṇa certainly is not puzzled. It seems like everything is happening according to His plan.

Prabhupāda: Kīrtana may be stopped now.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Stop for a while now. For the rest of the night it's good if there's... (kīrtana stops) The kavirāja's assistant came this evening. We hadn't called him. I think he came on his own. He wanted to see how you were. I didn't think there was so much need for him to see you. He's not so senior a man. And the medicine is already prescribed, so what would be the benefit of his coming? We're not going to allow him to change the medicine, so I felt there was no real need. We can... Bhakti-caru Mahārāja spoke with him, gave him report of how you are.

Prabhupāda: He is also educated?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't really know, Śrīla Prabhupāda, how far he's educated.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Seems too young also.

Room Conversation -- November 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So these two views, completely opposed. And I'm going to propose that...

Prabhupāda: No, it is a common sense. There is mother and there is children. Where is the father? They have no common sense even. Everything is produced... There are four kinds of living entities: udbhid-ja, sveda-ja, aṇḍa-ja and jarāyu-ja. They do not know anything. You are taking account of the jarāyu-ja, Not udbhid-ja, sveda-ja, aṇḍa-ja. They think the trees are coming automatically. That is their theory. That's not fact. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). Bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). They do not consider this. A bug is coming from bed—they think it is automatically. No? The bīja-pradaḥ pitā... There are four kinds of births.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Four kinds of...?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Births.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is that jarāy...?

Bhagatji: Man, animal...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Womb.

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Turn me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break) ...passing is not a very big amount, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Practically it's hardly anything at all. But because it requires for you to be cleaned, therefore you're a little bit bothered by it. Otherwise, in proportion to what you're drinking, it's not unusual. Rather, it's a little healthy, because if you weren't passing it, then we'd have to make it come by giving douche or something. So the kavirāja explained, though, that gradually he has to work on each thing. I'm hopeful, Śrīla Prabhupāda, even though you say you're hopeless. Of course, it's our duty to follow your lotus feet; so whatever your view is, it's our view. But you have to kindly permit us that in this one instance we can have a disagreeing view that although you are hopeless, we should remain hopeful, although it's always our duty to have the same view as you have. Are you desiring to have some kīrtana, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Or would you like to rest for a while.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I want rest.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want to rest. So we'll keep it very quiet for a while. I'm just writing some letters, so should I continue to do that?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm in the next room in case you want me. Bhavānanda Mahārāja and Śatadhanya Mahārāja are here. We'll keep everything quiet for you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Pañca-draviḍa: ...everything was together. But when you add up our sales, whole zones put together, then they're as big as New York and the other areas now. They are doing nicely. They've also brought you some gifts, one sweater and some warm socks and a scarf for the winter here in Vṛndāvana.