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Very powerful (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 14, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: Where is the origin of this image of the sun? Where is the origin of this image of the sun? Is this a Vedic śāstric explanation?

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is śāstric information. He is incarnation of Nārāyaṇa, Sūrya-nārāyaṇa. He is powerful. He is driving in four horses. He has got chariot of four horses and very powerful. Yac cakṣur eśa savita. Savita, his name is Savita. The Gāyatrī mantra is oṁ bhur bhuvaḥ svāḥ tat savitur varenyam bhargo devasya dhimahi. That is worshiping the sun-god.

Allen Ginsberg: Do you use Gāyatrī mantra also?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Allen Ginsberg: I know some of it. Oṁ bhur...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Oṁ bhur bhuvaḥ svaḥ tat savitur varenyam bhargo devasya dhimahi dhiyo yo naḥ pracodayāt. This Gāyatrī, this is called.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Devotee (4): ...national, just like the national...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So we have to organize. First of all let us publish in one city, big city like New York, like London, yes, Bombay, Tokyo. Big cities, world's big cities. In India only two cities are big: Calcutta, and Bombay, important. If you publish simultaneously, Calcutta... Delhi is given importance due to capital; otherwise not important as big city, as Bombay and Calcutta. Delhi, without government offices it is a dead city. Just like Washington. What is the value of Washington? It is nothing. Simply because it is headquarters of the President, it has got importance. Similarly, Delhi is that. Otherwise it is not important. But Calcutta, Bombay, is really important city in India, big business, port, all rich men, every kind of, all cultural, everything—Calcutta, and Bombay. Originally only Calcutta, now Bombay also. Because the Britishers, they made Calcutta capital. And Calcutta was very, very important city. But these Calcutta men, they create sometimes situation, very complicated. So once in 1905 the same situation was there, politically. Sir Surendranath Bannerjee made, Surendranath Bannerjee's movement, partition of Bengal. Lord Collier, he wanted to divide Bengal, made it East Bengal and West Bengal. And Surendranath Bannerjee... He is the practically father of Indian politics. Gandhi's not. He was. He was. And in the beginning, in European circles he was famous. He was called "Surrender-not." The spelling of the name, s-u-r-e-n-d-e-r, Surendranath. In Parliament he was known as "Surrender-not." He was a very powerful politician. So there was trouble in Calcutta; so therefore they transferred, 1911, capital to Delhi. Otherwise, from the very beginning of British occupation Calcutta was the capital. You have seen the government viceroy's house near that Hamilton building where you were trying to purchase.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 4.13.48 to SB 4.14.11 -- January 18, 1972, Jaipur:

Prabhupāda: Somebody must be there. So monkeys, they are now taking advantage, that these people have got some eatables. Therefore, Darwin's theory is from monkey. That's a fact. From the monkey, cow, and lion, the next birth is human life. So vimṛśya loka-vyasanaṁ kṛpaya ucuḥ sma satriṇaḥ, they began to discuss how to mitigate the troubles of the people. They began to discuss that aho ubhayataḥ prāptaṁ lokasya vyasanaṁ mahat. People, they are now disturbed both ways. One way, the king is a rascal. Another way is that taking advantage of the bad king, the thieves and rogues, they are also very powerful. So just see how the saintly persons became compassionate to the people that they are both ways. Actually at the present moment, people are disturbed by unnecessary taxes, at the same time bad elements. So without proper king, without nice state, everyone is unhappy. And that is going on nowadays. In the Kali-yuga, it will go on continual, and more and more people will be unhappy.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Bob: What about a name meaning "all-powerful"?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Attractive means... Unless you are powerful, how you can be attractive? (laughter)

Acyutānanda: It includes everything.

Prabhupāda: Includes everything. He must be very beautiful, He must be very wise, He must be very powerful, He must be very famous...

Bob: Is Kṛṣṇa attractive to rascals?

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. He was the greatest rascal also.

Bob: How is this?

Prabhupāda: (laughing) Because he was teasing always the gopīs.

Śyāmasundara: Teasing?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The Rādhārāṇī would go, because She was married and Kṛṣṇa will attack Her. And when She fall down, "Kṛṣṇa, don't torture Me in that way," She will fall down, and Kṛṣṇa will take the opportunity and kiss her. (Prabhupāda laughs) So from superficially, Rādhārāṇī was very pleased, but superficially Kṛṣṇa is a great, the greatest rascal. Unless rascaldom is not in Kṛṣṇa, how rascaldom is there, existence in the world? Because our formula of God is that He's the source of everything. Ask her not to talk. (Shouts at someone in Bengali) Katha kaibe nā! Katha kaibe nā. Unless rascaldom is not in Kṛṣṇa, how it can be manifest. Because He's the source of everything. But His rascaldom is so nice that everyone worships His rascaldom.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: Who is powerful? First of all let us see who is powerful.

Guest (2): Like United States, like Soviet Union. There is no other power in this world who can...

Prabhupāda: What do you mean by powerful? Then President Nixon is not afraid of anything, do you think?

Guest (2): He personally may not, may be afraid of something, but as a country, yes, it's very powerful. The whole world is afraid of them.

Prabhupāda: Well, President Nixon means this country. Why he went to China? Why he went to Russia? He's also afraid. If there is war there will be great calamity. So everyone is afraid. Everyone is under the control of the laws of nature. Everyone is hungry. So actually nobody's powerful in this material world. Even if he's powerful, it is for temporary. So many Hitlers, so many Napoleons, so many Churchills and others came and gone. There was powerful British Empire, powerful Roman Empire. So nobody's powerful. That's a wrong idea. In due course of time everything will be kicked out and finished. That is the law of nature.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: World history is that history repeats itself. Everything comes into existence and then vanquished.

Guest (2): No, that's not what I mean. What I meant is that during the past two thousand years, whoever was very powerful was who was doing all these four things which we are, which you are suggesting that we should give up, you see.

Prabhupāda: But I say that my challenge is nobody's powerful. That is my challenge.

Guest (2): I mean...

Prabhupāda: You mean, but that is not the fact.

Guest (2): It's a fact, I mean, when they are powerful they rule the whole earth.

Prabhupāda: Where is your Hitler? Where is your Mussolini? Where is Napoleon?

Guest (2): Yes, Hitler is gone, but then we have that U.S., you see. If tomorrow U.S. goes, maybe there will be Soviet Union.

Prabhupāda: So that means everyone will come into power for some days; then it will be finished. That's all.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Buddhist Monk (1): And ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ, nonviolence is the highest righteousness. And from this can come so much good. If we love each other, we express that love in its purest form by sharing, and if we share, we are not going to steal anything from someone else, we're not going to commit adultery, we're not going to say lies, and we'll not be under the influence of narcotics and so on. So that's that purification process, which is very, very powerful, not only for oneself, but the society in which it is used. So this is why I emphasize this virtue, and wherever I go, I try to meet within the limitations of time and transport...

Prabhupāda: Where you are staying here? London?

Buddhist Monk (1): That has become a little difficult because... It's difficult. We didn't know these āśramas, and we came yesterday. The Guru Nanak temple people made arrangements for our transport. We were staying with them for one week, and they looked after us dearly, and they made arrangements for our transport to come here. Some people were coming on some other business. So they brought us. So it was not much time. So we met a person in the street, and we told them that we are looking after a place to stay. And that person said, "Well, it's difficult here." Then I asked about two or three, and we had some addresses and they were far away. Then we met a friendly gentleman who was just reversing his car. He was smiling. And we smiled. We said, "Well, could you tell us a small place to pitch a tent." We carry a small tent. We said, "For a day or two..." He asked me how long. I said, "Just to find some breathing space at least." So we have pitched up a small tent in a private garden. That's somewhere in Cheswick Lane.

Prabhupāda: Where it is?

Haṁsadūta: Cheswick Lane.

Buddhist Monk (1): That's by the river, uh? It's quite far away, yes. So last night we stayed there. Is that on the western side of...?

Devotee: Yes, that's the West Fork.

Buddhist Monk (1): West Fork. West Fork.

Prabhupāda: This is northern? No, southern. I do not know. We are also (Buddhist laughs) camped for the last few days. We do not know much about...

Buddhist Monk (1): Much about it, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Anna Conan Doyle: Yes, by the foot...

Prabhupāda: By the chain, yes. Horse is very powerful animal than the man. How the man can control the horse? But he knows the trick, that it has to be controlled in the mouth. As soon as there is pain in the mouth, he becomes puzzled. He has to abide by the order. The man knows the tricks. Horse is not controlled by the tai... (break) ...he's controlled.

Bhagavān: Really?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: So every animal can be controlled...

Prabhupāda: Therefore there was a meeting of all animals that how to get out of the control of man. (laughter) The elephant said: "My dear sir, I am so powerful. I am also controlled by that. So it is useless to hold meeting." "I am also controlled by man." The meeting was organized by an ass. (laughter) He thought that: "I have to work so hard. Let us have a conference of animals to avoid man's control." But he saw that elephant also said that "I am so powerful. Still I am also controlled by the man. So it is useless."

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: That is illusion. We are attached to them.

Dr. Hauser: Yes, we are attached to them also because they have power over us. They can persecute us and they can... So it's very...

Prabhupāda: No, the greater power is Kṛṣṇa. If you take shelter of Kṛṣṇa, they cannot do anything. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja, he was a five years old boy. He took shelter of Kṛṣṇa and his father was a great demon, very powerful. He wanted to chastise his boy. He could not. This is the proof. So you take shelter. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pape... (BG 18.66). "I give you protection." So people have no faith although He's God. He thinks God is less powerful than Hitler. That is his nonsense. If he takes actually shelter of Kṛṣṇa, what this rascal, Hitler, can do? But he has no faith in God. He thinks Prabhu Hitler is greater than Lord. Prabhu Hitler. That is the difference between the crows and the swans. The crows think that we have got food in the garbage. And the swans think that we have got food in nice garden, in the clear water. And that is difference even in the birds kingdom. That is explained in the previous verse. Na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo, jagat-pavitraṁ pragṛṇīta karhicit, tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham (SB 1.5.10). Read that, previous to this verse.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: ...for others it is said. For Kṛṣṇa, it is mercy. The gopīs came with lust. They became purified with Kṛṣṇa's association. Gopīs actually, superficially, externally, they are, means, nitya-siddha, ever-liberated expansion of Kṛṣṇa's energy, internal energy. But apparently, they left their father, husband and came to Kṛṣṇa. So that is, from Vedic principle, it is wrong. One young girl cannot go to other young man, giving up the protection of father, brother, and... So they did it. So they, according to Vedic principle, it is sinful. But because it was related with Kṛṣṇa, they became purified. That means any way, if one comes in contact with Kṛṣṇa, he becomes purified. Even though he's sinful. That is Kṛṣṇa's... That is the benefit of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sun is never infected. Rather, the infected area becomes sterilized by the sunshine. This is the process. That is explained. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). One who is very powerful, he has no fault. So how your temperature is going on?

Śyāmasundara: Everything is getting very nicely improved.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Śyāmasundara: You've got some cold?

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: I got everything, still, I haven't got anything. (laughter) So you can invite the neighboring people. We can hold an evening class or morning class. I'll give you one matter for... (break) This is a nice place. If you invite the neighboring..., they may come and take advantage.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Topless, bottomless. That is going on. It is a regular policy that girls may remain unmarried, and the drunkards and the meat-eaters may take advantage of the prostitution. This is the policy. They have no sympathy. So many hundreds and thousands of innocent girls, they're like children. And they're exposed to prostitution. They have no shelter. Now these girls who are with us, they're feeling some shelter, you see? That we are giving some shelter. Everything should be reformed, political, social, and be, you American nation—you're favored nation, that I am always speaking; you should utilize the favor of God and be yourself perfect—and be leader of the whole world. Anyone who is not believer in God, he should be punished. Because he's animal. He is animal, and he is posing himself as human being. Cheater. Human life is meant for tapasya, for understanding God. That is human life. This dog's life, cat's life, this is not human life. If you become a very powerful tiger, is that human life? They're thinking like that. "If I become as strong as a tiger, then there we are perfect nation." Then what is the use of tiger? It is simply kill only. What other intelligence he has got? So in your country there are so many things to be done. I give you the idea, now you take the leaders. (break) Rascal. Sentimental. Be yourself leader. (break) ...you give up all this material advancement. But there must be Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise it is waste of time. Live very comfortably, gentlemanly.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 23, 1974, Hawaii:

Bali Mardana: Bhīṣmadeva was also one of the Vasus previously.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Aṣṭa-vasu.

Bali Mardana: In Bhīṣmadeva's instructions, while he was dying, one of the questions that he was asked is "Which is more powerful, action or destiny, karma?" He replied that they are both very powerful, but of the two, action was more powerful.

Prabhupāda: Time. Reaction. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa... What is that bird? (tropical—sounding bird in background) Bird, or something else?

Bali Mardana: Bird.

Prabhupāda: That sound? (break) ...our philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness if they actually want to be happy. This is a fact. Not sentimentally, but scientifically, philosophically. Let them... Let the biggest scientists, biggest philosopher, come and understand. (break) ...gone away, but nobody saw.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: When we, when you find vibhūtimat sattvaṁ, a very powerful man, a powerful elephant, you should, you know that "There is Kṛṣṇa. This power is Kṛṣṇa."

Dr. Patel: This is standard nyāya.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mr. Sar:

yad yad vibhūtimat sattvaṁ
śrīmad ūrjitam eva vā
tat tad evāvagaccha tvaṁ
mama tejo-'ṁśa-sambhavam

Prabhupāda: So where is the difficulty to understand Kṛṣṇa? (laughs) Every moment you can remember Kṛṣṇa. Every moment you can see Kṛṣṇa, provided you have got eyes. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). Santaḥ. So you have to become a santaḥ, perfect santa. Then you'll see Kṛṣṇa always.

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1974, Bombay:

Indian man (3): He was devotee of Lord Śiva. Otherwise why Lord Śiva gives him whatever he wants?

Prabhupāda: Lord Śiva is Lord Śiva. He is very powerful demigod. He can give. He has got the power. But in spite of being favored by Lord Śiva, in spite of his becoming the great devotee of Lord Śiva, why he is described as rākṣasa? That is the point. So therefore if I say Rāvaṇa a rākṣasa, according to the śāstra, another devotee may be angry. So what can I do? It is stated in the śāstra, rākṣasa. Similarly, in the śāstra it is stated that na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ: "If one is not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa he is duṣkṛtina, the most sinful, mūḍhā, rascal, naradhāma, lowest of the mankind, māyayā apahṛta-jñāna." These things are there. But if we quote the śāstra, that "This man has not surrendered to the Supreme Lord; therefore he is a rascal," then what is wrong with us? It may be very strong words, but it is stated in the śāstra. Just like about Rāvaṇa, it is stated that he is a rākṣasa. So it may be very insulting and strong words, but this is the statement of the śāstra. And if one quotes from the śāstra, what is wrong on his part? Suppose in the court a big man has done something criminal, and the judgement is that he should be punished. So can you accuse the court, "Oh, such a big man?" Just like... For the time being let us understand. Mahatma Gandhi was put to jail in so many times. So nobody could say because according to law there was civil disobedience. So if the law puts you in the jail, so can you protest against that? Then you will be also put into jail, contempt of court. Although everyone respects Mahatma Gandhi, but why he was put into jail? According to law. It may be it is man-made law, it is wrong, but the principle is that whatever is judgement of the śāstra, we have to take. It doesn't matter who is that man and how great he is. That is... Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ, na siddhim sa... (BG 16.23). The śāstra is given stress always. So you cannot go beyond the verdict of the śāstra. That is the injunction.

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: How he's independent of God? Napoleon wanted to finish that arch, and he was kicked out. How he's independent of God. Such a big person, strong person, he wanted to finish, but he was not allowed to finish. Then how he thinks that he's independent. That is foolishness, that I can be kicked out at any moment, and still he's thinking "I am independent." What is the answer? Why he was kicked out? He was a very powerful man, and why he was kicked out? "No, you cannot finish. You go, get out immediately." Then? Where is his independence. He was simply falsely puffed-up independent. And now, after being kicked out, if he has taken the body of a cat and dog, then what is the benefit? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). The nature is so strong and the laws are so stringent. We are not independent. If you touch fire, fire is one of the elements, it will burn your finger. However powerful you may be, you cannot stop it. Then where is your independence?

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: His mind is being... His mental expression is Kṛṣṇa. He's always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma. We have got some propensity to create. Just like this beautiful place. We have got creative energy. Therefore it is advised that nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe. Make it for Kṛṣṇa. You'll find in India, they have also created big, big temples, four flight, but for Kṛṣṇa. Then the energy spent for creating this park, in relationship with Kṛṣṇa will be utilized as service to Kṛṣṇa. And if it simply meant for sense gratification, then you are under the laws of nature, contaminated. Just like if a man is very powerful, he's creating this park, but he is contaminated with some infection, he, will he not suffer?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: He must suffer.

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: If the devotee is fearless, how is it Prahlāda was expressing his fearfulness of the material nature?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Even you are fearless, you should not be fool. Because, if you know that "There is danger, I must be very careful," that is intelligence. That is not fearfulness. Besides that, a devotee like Prahlāda, he's fearless, but he's fearful for others. That is stated. Just like the mother. She knows that she'll not catch fire, she'll not fall down in the water, but she is always anxious to see her child that the child may not fall into the water, may not catch fire. She's working in her own way, but always fearful of the child. Similarly, a Vaiṣṇava, he's not fearless for himself, but because he's sympathetic, because he knows that all these rascals, they are wrongly wasting their time, therefore he's anxious, fearful. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. They are unhappy by seeing others unhappy. For themselves, there is no unhappiness. That is their grace. And Vaiṣṇava is fearless, even if he's sent to hell, he's not unhappy. Because wherever he goes, he'll chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So actually he has no fear, fearfulness. He is only unhappy... Just like we are talking. Others may think that we are criticizing, but we are actually talking. Suppose this, one who has manufactured this big park and he has, next life, he has become contaminated, the dog's life, then what is the use? How you can guarantee that you are not going to be a dog? It is under the management of material nature, maram (?), very powerful. Just like even a big man like Napoleon, he's also under the control of material nature. As soon as the time is... "Get out." "No, I want to finish this arch." "No, sir, you get out." Then where is your powerfulness? That they do not know. For the temporary power, they become puffed up and go to hell. That's all. But they have no conception of hell. These are primitive ideas.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Nitāi: (reading) "In the Gītā it is clearly mentioned that material energy works fully under the direction of the Supreme Lord. It has no independent authority. It works as the shadow moves in accordance with the movements of the object, but still, material energy is very powerful, and the atheist, due to his godless temperament, cannot know how it works, nor can he know the plan of the Supreme Lord. Under illusion and the modes of passion and ignorance, all his plans are baffled, as in the case of Hiraṇyakaśipu and Rāvaṇa, whose plans were smashed to dust although they were both materially learned as scientists, philosophers, administrators and educators. These duṣkṛtinas or miscreants are of four different patterns as outlined below. Number one. The mūḍhas: those who are grossly foolish like hard working beasts of burden. They want to enjoy the fruits of their labor by themselves and do not want to part with them for the Supreme. The typical example of the beast of burden is the ass. This humble beast is made to work very hard by his master. The ass does not really know for whom he works so hard day and night. He remains satisfied by filling his stomach with a bundle of grass, sleeping for a while under fear of being beaten by the master, and satisfying his sex appetite at the risk of being repeatedly kicked by the opposite party. The ass sings poetry and philosophy sometimes, but this braying only disturbs others. This is the position of the foolish fruitive worker who does not know for whom he should work. He does not know that karma, action, is meant for yajña, sacrifice. Most often, those who work very hard day and night to clear the burden of self-created duties say that they have no time to hear of the immortality of the living being. To such mūḍhas, material gains, which are destructible, are life's all in all, despite the fact that the mūḍhas enjoy only a very small fraction of the fruit of labor. Sometimes they spend sleepless days and nights for fruitive gain, and although they may have ulcers or indigestion, they are satisfied with practically no food. They are simply absorbed in working hard day and night for the benefit of illusory masters. Ignorant of their real master, the foolish workers waste their valuable time serving mammon. Unfortunately, they never surrender to the supreme master of all masters, not do they take time to hear of Him from the proper sources."

Prabhupāda: Generally, we see now, especially in the western countries, they are working so hard. The master is wine and woman. That's all. Is it not? They have made their master wine and women. In Paris we see everywhere. On the street they are drinking and talking. In Germany also, I have seen. You have been in Germany?

Devotee: Amsterdam is the same way.

Prabhupāda: Amsterdam is a place simply for prostitutes.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: For eating vegetables, for instance, you need it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, that is the law of nature, that every living being is eating another living being. That is stated in the Vedic śāstra.

ahastāni sahastānām
apadāni catuṣ-padām
phalgūni tatra mahatāṁ
jīvo jīvasya jīvanam

That "Those who have no hands—that means animals—they are food for the animal who has got hands. And those who have no legs, they are food for the four-legged." Just like grass has no legs, but it is a food fo the cows and the goats. Apadāni catuṣ-padām, phalgūni tatra mahatām: "Then one who is powerful, very powerful..." Just like tiger, he jumps over another animal. So because the other animal is weak and this animal is strong, so in this way, the feeding is going on, one living being for the other. But when you come to the... That is nature. The tiger will never eat grass. But we human being, we eat grass, goat, cows and everything. Because advanced, so-called advanced. But our foodstuff is to accept the remnants of foodstuff which is eaten by Kṛṣṇa. That is our philosophy. Kṛṣṇa-prasāda. Just like in this temple, we don't eat anything. Neither we eat grass, neither we eat animals. We eat kṛṣṇa-prasāda. So Kṛṣṇa says that "You give Me these foodstuffs." Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). So we are not eating on the material platform. We are eating on the spiritual platform. Because we are eating, if there is anything sinful, that is Kṛṣṇa's. We are taking His remnants of foodstuff. So this is our philosophy. We don't advocate vegetarianism or nonvegetarianism. We advocate, "Eat Kṛṣṇa's prasādam, the remnants of foodstuff which is offered to Kṛṣṇa." This is our philosophy. And apart from this philosophy, because one living entity is food for another living entity, it does not mean that I shall eat my children also. There is discretion, that human being, they should offer these fruits, vegetables, milk as it is prescribed in the śāstra to God, Kṛṣṇa, and take. That is human civilization, not for the satisfaction of the tongue we have to maintain big, big slaughterhouse and eat them. No, that is not human civilization. The main business of the human society is to understand God, and as soon as he understands God, he understands that every living entity is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Then how we can eat? That because Kṛṣṇa eats, Kṛṣṇa allows, then we eat. So responsibility is Kṛṣṇa's. This is our philosophy.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: So we offer Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa wants: "Give me this foodstuff," so we offer the foodstuff to Kṛṣṇa, and we take it. Therefore, if for killing this patraṁ puṣpam there is sin, that is Kṛṣṇa's sin, not my sin. (German) But Kṛṣṇa, God, apāpa-viddham, sinful reaction cannot take place to Him. Apāpa-viddham. Pāpa means sinful. Just like the sun is powerful. It can absorb urine, but you cannot drink urine. (German) So the injunction is tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). One who is very powerful... Just like a king. He orders, "Kill this man. Murder." He commits murder regularly, chopped up. But he is not under the law, being hanged, because he is very powerful. But an ordinary man, if he commits murder, he will be hanged. When there is fight the commander in chief says, "You kill them," and the soldier kills and he gets gold medal. But the same soldier, when he kills a single person at home, he is hanged. Therefore this injunction, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26), "This vegetables give Me. I shall eat, and you take the prasādam." So we are not sinful.

Room Conversation -- August 12, 1975, Paris (with French translator):

Prabhupāda: So anyone who is trying to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness he is very, very dear to Kṛṣṇa. Because that is the real welfare work. All bogus. That is a fact. Everyone is under the laws of material nature. How you can do benefit to him? It is very powerful. The same example, the man is condemned by law to be hanged, you cannot save him however rich man you may be. It is not possible. But the state executive head can excuse. Similarly, you cannot do anything without Kṛṣṇa's order. So if you want to help your relatives, your friends, your..., then you must become Kṛṣṇa conscious and make him Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the only way. This is the only responsibility. There is no other responsibility. And to serve this responsibility you can do everything. To make a person Kṛṣṇa conscious, you can give him help, you can give him education, you can give him money, you can..., to make him Kṛṣṇa conscious. Not for sense gratification. Then it will be useless. He is going hell, you are going hell, that's all. That's all. All other bogus. (end)

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1975, Hawaii:

Guru-kṛpa: So they say, "Then my chanting is useless? So I should stop?" That's what they say.

Prabhupāda: No, not useless. But just like if you kindle fire and at the same time pour water, it will take long time. To kindle fire, make it dry, keep it dry. Then it will be very quickly successful. So you are committing offenses, at the same time chanting, so by chanting effect, you will come to that stage, but it will take time. If you want to be transferred to the spiritual world quickly, just like if you want to ignite the fire very quickly, you must keep it dry. If you simply put on the wet wood, then the fire will not be very powerful. It will be... It will take time. The fire will be blazing fire. Then it will dry. It will take... Better put dry wood to make it successful. This is the process. The effect of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa will not go in vain, but it will take time. Nāmnad balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. Because he is thinking "By the strength of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, I can do anything, all sinful activities, and it will be adjusted," that is the greatest offense, not only offense, the greatest offense. Nāmnad balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ.

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1975, Hawaii:

Siddha-svarūpa: Easy.

Prabhupāda: Therefore it is recommended that you live with devotees. But if you cannot agree with the devotees, you have got your own opinion, then you cannot make a new opinion so far the process is concerned. That must be followed. This is not good idea, that "Whatever I do, it is my independence, and I will chant." So that is good in sense that some day he will come to senses. Otherwise, for the time being, the chant is not very powerful. The fire in wet wood is not powerful. It will create some smoke. Although the fire is there. But if you put dry wood, immediately it will be blazing, and your business will be quickly done. This is intelligence. There are many examples. A patient suffering from disease, a doctor said, "You should do; you should not do." So if we follow "You should not do," then it becomes quickly recovered. But if he becomes under the treatment of the doctor at the same time he does all nonsense, then how it can be successful? It will take time. That is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Pāpi jane aparādha āchāya pracūra. Pāpi jane aparādha āchāya... Offenseless chanting is the ultimate goal. In the beginning we are not offenseless, but by chanting, chanting, by practice, we gradually become offenseless. But this is necessary, that you should be offenseless.

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Devotee (1): Americans.

Prabhupāda: Americans want this place to fight with the Russians. So if American comes directly in India, that "We want to fight," then India would not agree. Therefore they're keeping with these foolish rascals, Pakistan. And they're insulting. They're... Not insulting. They're naturally enemy of... not to let them... The Vietnam and everything, Korea, all these things. Not to allow the communists to become very powerful. That is American political policy is going on. And the presidents may change, but the national policy cannot be changed. Therefore they want fighting between Pakistan and India. So Russia... Actually that happened. Russia will come to the help of India. That arrangement is already there with Indira Gandhi. Naturally they'll come to help Pakistan. And then between the big two.

Devotee (1): That's why you said this morning that India will suffer more than any other country.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: You can cheat. (laughter) You can cheat. For Kṛṣṇa's sake we can cheat also. But don't be caught. Then it will be scandalous.

Gaṇeśa: Thank you. Kṛṣṇa is the biggest cheat.

Prabhupāda: Yes, He is big in everything, but you should not imitate, because you are not as big as Kṛṣṇa. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). He is very powerful. Before His power, everything becomes vāṇīshed. He remains powerful. But you cannot do that. "Kṛṣṇa is biggest cheater; therefore I shall become a cheater." That is not good policy. Then you will be finished. Just like the example is given that Lord Śiva drank the ocean of poison, and if you drink a drop, you will die. You cannot imitate the most powerful. That is not possible.

Jayadharma: You told Madhudviṣa Swami once in Sydney a few years ago that actually you're the biggest cheater because you're stealing away all our māyā.

Prabhupāda: What is that? I am...

Paramahaṁsa: He says that once you told Madhudviṣa Swami that you are the best cheater because you are taking away all our māyā and making us devotees.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Guest 2: American soldiers.

Prabhupāda: No, whoever may be. Not that I sit down in my armchair and I give direction. The poor soldiers are fighting. No. He should go. Courage. He should personally give direction, "Do like this." Who is doing that? The minister of defense is very comfortably sitting on his chair, and the poor soldiers are fighting. That is not required. He must go first of all: "Do like this." Just like in Battle of Kurukṣetra, Arjuna is in front; the other side, Duryodhana. The real fighters, they are face to face. Soldiers are assistant. Where is that? So they should be trained up. So unless he is by his nature very powerful, śauryam... What is that?

Amogha: Śauryam, heroism.

Prabhupāda: Heroism. Therefore the kṣatriyas are allowed to hunt in the forest to become hero because he has to fight. Just like in medical laboratory they first of all dissect some poor animal before touching human being. Therefore kṣatriyas are allowed to hunt to become hero. Facing the tiger, "Come on." And still, say, about twenty-five years ago, there was a native prince in Jaipur. Every year he would go to the forest and face the tiger, without any weapon. So that is required.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: General...?

Guest 2: Where is he?

Guest 1: Idi Amin? Uganda.

Amogha: There is a general in Africa who is very powerful, but he's demonic.

Prabhupāda: No, no. They should not be demonic. Other things are there. Śauryaṁ tejo...

Amogha: "Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity, and leadership..."

Prabhupāda: Generosity.

Guest 2: So he hasn't got generosity.

Guest 3: No, he's got another one, insanity. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Not insanity.

Guest 1: You can't substitute.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is there. He must be at the same time... Although he is hero, he must be generous. Just like Alexander the Great. Perhaps you know the story. He arrested one thief. So when he was arrested and he was being judged by Alexander, the thief pleaded that "What is the difference between you and me? You are a great thief. I am a small thief." (laughter) So Alexander understood it and got him released, "Yes." (laughter) This is generosity. He must agree to the principle.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1975, Honolulu:

Bali-mardana: Death does not discriminate between the high and the low.

Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ (BG 9.10). They are observing this nature, very powerful, but the powerful nature is working under the order of Kṛṣṇa. Mayādhyakṣeṇa. It is being informed, but they are so poor brain, they cannot understand it. Mūḍhā. Our position is just like these foams. By one little wave, millions of foams are coming out and again finished. It is like that, our position. So our position is like foam; we are taking estimate of the ocean. This is our position. Our position is like one of the drop of the foam, and we are calculating the strength of the ocean. And when you cannot calculate, it is accident. That's all. Finished business. It is accident. Everything is being done accident. We will never admit that we cannot calculate. Accident, that's all. Dismiss.

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That kicking out will convince them. Otherwise, they will not be convinced. So long they are in the post, they will never be convinced. But when they are kicked out, when they are street dog, then they will be... (break) Otherwise, you can pass resolution, the senators. When the senators come for vote, you tell them, "First of all dismiss all these things. Then we shall give you vote. Otherwise no more vote." Then they will be also. And vote has become cheap. Saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. That example I was giving, that small animals and big animal. The lion is a big animal, and he is afraid of by the small animals, jackals, cats and dogs. So out of fear, they are giving vote. But giving vote to whom? To an animal. So how they can be happy? A small animal is giving vote to the big animal. But suppose a big animal, a lion, he is very powerful. Does it mean he is human being? He is animal. So the small animals may be afraid of that big animal, but the human being knows that he is animal. That's all. He doesn't care for this animal. The animal may be very strong, but that does not mean he will be given any credit of human being. No. That is not possible. So in this animal civilization there are many strong, big animals. So they are voted by the small animals, but we are not going to vote that he is very important figure. No. We immediately reject. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā (SB 5.18.12). "One who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is useless." That's all. We are not going to echo the small animals. That is not possible. We reject, "Oh, he is animal." That's all. So our test is whether one is Kṛṣṇa conscious. You can say that "If you are not a big animal, that does not mean that you are a big man." That is... We admit. But we have got our Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "Here is a rascal." And so we say, "Here is a rascal." That's all.

Morning Walk -- June 27, 1975, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: They say she is the most powerful woman in the world.

Prabhupāda: Yes, very powerful. Now she is going to hell, so powerful. She is so powerful, now she is going to hell.

Kāśīrāma: The United Nations has declared this year International Woman's Year so that all the women can gain more liberation from the bondage of being under the supremacy of man.

Prabhupāda: But how to get liberation, not being pregnant?

Kāśīrāma: That's one of the programs.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Let them be liberated, not being pregnant. The man will be pregnant equally. (laughter) Where is that liberation? Can they make any resolution, "Now, man has to become pregnant also equally."

Jayatīrtha: The scientists will begin work on that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, let these rascals engage in that work, how a man can become pregnant. (laughter) "Yes, we are trying, we shall do in the future." They will say like that, yes. (break) ...there are women police. You know that? So they were guiding... I said that "If somebody captures your hand, then where is your police force?" Any young boy sixteen, seventeen years old can capture any two, three women, and he can control. And where is the police force?

Brahmānanda: They're now making women firemen.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Sandy Nixon: God conscious president.

Prabhupāda: Yes, if you train people to become God conscious, then naturally president will come, God conscious. If you train people like hogs and dogs, then the president will be hogs and dogs because it is democracy. (laughter) Therefore we have taken the task to train people how to become godly. Then naturally the president will come godly. If people decide that "We shall not cast our vote to any man who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious," then the Kṛṣṇa conscious man will come. But people are not trained up. They are fools, so they elect another fool, big fool. That's all. How you can be happy? Just like in the forest the small animals like cats and dogs and asses, they are very much afraid of the lion, tiger. And they accept lion as the king of forest. But he may be lion or tiger and elected by asses and cats and dogs, but he is nothing but animal. Will any human being accept the lion as human being? No. He knows that he is an animal. Maybe he is voted by the small animals. So that is the position. At the present moment the mass of people are kept in their animal consciousness. And therefore they elect another big animal to become president. Their idea is to have animal strength, jaws and nails and very powerful—"Oh, he is God," or "He is president." They cannot select anyone else. But formerly, in the Vedic civilization, a king was elected by the first-class men of the society, the saintly persons, the brāhmaṇas. They did not take part in politics, but they recommended that "This man should..." Just like Kṛṣṇa. He wanted Yudhiṣṭhira must be the king. Because king is supposed to be God's representative, how to rule over, not that these cats and dogs will find out a lion and vote him to the chair. That is not the process. Your modern process is that the electors, they are not trained up, and they elect another big animal to become the president. Therefore it is failure. All over the world this is going on. This so-called democracy... Unless people are very much trained up, the election by the mass is not very good. Rather, a first-class men, they should nominate that "This man should be president." That will be nice. Your question was "How to find out president, good"? So this is the process. So there is no intelligent class of man. That is the difficulty. Who is trying to control his mind, control his senses? This is the first condition to become a first-class man. As soon as a man sees a beautiful woman, immediately his mind is agitated. Where is the control? And as soon as the mind is agitated, the senses are agitated. And this is the first condition of the first-class man, that he should not be agitated in his mind, and agitated by senses. This is the first condition. So where is that school who is training to, how to control the mind, how to control the senses, how to become truthful, how to become cleansed, internally, externally.

Morning Walk -- November 7, 1975, Bombay:

Bhāgavata: I was thinking if we had him for the festival, to come to the festival, that would be a very prestigious...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Why don't you arrange for that? You have to arrange. Yes. (break) ...king. Their constitution, first word is "the king can do no wrong." Yes, that is the Vedic system. Suppose a king beheads somebody by his own sword, as it was being done. Nobody can charge him that "Without any trial he has killed this man." No. Whatever is done... Just like we take Kṛṣṇa, apāpa viddham. Kṛṣṇa is never touched with any sinful activities. Apāpa-viddham. Tejiyasam na doṣaya (SB 10.33.29). Just as the sun, because it is very, very powerful, nothing can infect it. These are the dangers. (Hindi?) Of course, if you want to keep one in very exalted post, at the same time, if you want to find fault with him, then that is not good. That is not good. That is also stated, that arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhir guruṣu nara-matiḥ. If somebody thinks that the Deity is made of stone and he criticizes, that is not allowed. If one thinks spiritual master as ordinary human being, that is not allowed. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhir guruṣu nara-matiḥ. So those who are in highly exalted post of the state, you cannot find out fault with him. That is real Vedic way. Otherwise, if he is taken as ordinary citizen, then he is... What is the meaning of his exalted post?

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Desire is there. Desire is there. Just like in your country, the nudism going on. The desire is, "Ah, I shall remain free, naked." So Kṛṣṇa is giving you facility, "Alright, you stand here for thousands of years as tree, naked, nobody will criticize. You want to remain naked on the public street and you want to enjoy in that way, alright you become tree."

Harikeśa: Because desire is a function of consciousness, which is a symptom of the spirit soul, it's very powerful.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: Because it's spiritual actually.

Prabhupāda: Therefore it is said, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). Abhilāṣ means desire. Anya means "except service of Kṛṣṇa." That is beginning of bhakti. As soon as he desires something material for enjoyment he has to come to Me. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). The mind and the senses; with these things he is struggling for existence. Otherwise he is part and parcel of Krs..., mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhutaḥ jīva-loka sanātana (BG 15.7). He is eternal but because he is influenced by the mind, desires, and the senses, sense enjoyment, he is struggling. This is it, a struggle. So when he is too much fatigued, Kṛṣṇa comes and gives you good counsel. "You rascal give up these all desires. Surrender to Me, I give you protection." But he'll not do that. And if he agrees then anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11), all material desires, zero. Then bhakti begins. And if you have got a little pinch of material desires, then you have to accept different types of body. It will create, naturally. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). He is desiring under the influence of particular modes of nature, and he's getting body.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 2, 1976, Madras:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian man (3): And then he said, "I am in misery. I am in trouble." Trouble is created by you. Nobody has created.

Prabhupāda: So that is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, that mind is the enemy and mind is the friend. So we created our mind, enemy or friend, and we suffer for that.

Indian man (3): Mind is very, very powerful. How to make use of that? Actually mind is using the man; man is not using his mind.

Prabhupāda: In the Bhāgavata it is said, yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcana sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ. In another line...

Harikeśa: Harāv abhakta?

Prabhupāda: Eh? Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano-rathenāsato dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). One who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he has got all the good qualities. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcana sarvair guṇaiḥ: "All good qualities can be manifest." And harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ: "And one who is not devotee, he has no good qualities." "Why? He is so educated." No, mano-rathena: "He is hovering over the mind." Asāto dhāvato bahiḥ: "He will stick to this asat." But the Vedic injunction is asato mā sad gamaya. He cannot go to the real platform of life. Asato bahiḥ. They do not understand that this godless civilization is the root cause of all calamities in the world. (Hindi) Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ. The Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ. Twenty-four hours you have to do that. But where is twenty-four hours? You will not twenty-four minutes.

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice. (break) Eh? Dhunvanti, aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ.(?) This is Kṛṣṇa. In one second He can make it purified. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ (BG 18.66). Simply surrender.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It seems like our desire not to surrender is very powerful because Kṛṣṇa is so...

Prabhupāda: Not powerful. Yes, powerful.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa is so powerful and yet our nonsense is so strong that we can resist such a powerful force as Kṛṣṇa's love.

Prabhupāda: Now the whole sky clear, hundreds of miles. (break) ...all right? Where is in-charge? (break) ...and clan spirit. Aborigines, they fight amongst their clans.

Hṛdayānanda: Aborigines?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like Africa.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Ah, thank you. This is the disease. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). The rascal, he is bewildered, vimūḍhātmā, on account of false egotism. Just like we are inviting everyone: Please come and learn Bhagavad-gītā. "Huh! Bhagavad-gītā, let us go the sea and swim." Surfer, surfer? They are taking so much trouble. I have not see here; in Hawaii. For hours together, struggling with waves. I've seen it South Africa also. Very fond of this surf sporting. So they are wasting so much time and laboring so hard just to become fish. Yes, they are going to be fish. Because at the time of death they'll think of "How I am jumping in the water, surfing." That is natural. Sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ (BG 8.6). Because he has constantly thought over his sporting, naturally he'll think of sporting in the water. So this gross body when finished, his mental, intellectual and false ego will carry him to become a fish, and he'll have full freedom how fish is jumping within the water, going against the waves. A small fish can go against the waves. There is a Hindi poetry that a small fish can go against the big waves, whereas a big elephant is washed away. This is practical. Bahiya jāya(?) gajarāja. Gajarāja means, gaja means elephant. In big waves, if you put an elephant, he'll be washed away. But a small fish, he'll go against the waves. He's expert. This example is given that the fish, although he's very small, he's off the water. He's under the water. Therefore he's so powerful. He can go against the waves. That means āśraya. If one takes shelter of the supreme powerful, he also becomes powerful. The example is given, the small fish, it has no power, but because he has taken shelter of the water, it can go against big waves, whereas a big elephant, he'll be washed away, because he has not taken shelter. He has not taken shelter of the water. He is, on the land he is very powerful, but in the water he has no power. So according to different circumstances, we become powerful. A person, he was given the opportunity of human being to understand God, his position in relationship with God. So they won't care to take instruction about these features of life. They'll waste their time as a big swimmer in the water, with the result that he's going to be a fish. If nature's law.... You are giving up this body. That's a fact. You are leaving this body. Now what is your position? That will depend on the nature's law. Your body is finished. Now you are completely under nature's law. So whatever nature's law allow you, you have to accept. Your so-called education, so-called prestigious position, everything will be finished. You cannot do anything. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27).

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa only you are saved. Otherwise, our Bombay construction was rejected by the police constable, that kīrtana is nuisance. Public servant, he can say, blaspheme a religious system, Bhagavad-gītā, in the same country, Bhagavad-gītā. And India is condemning now, government men: "Kīrtana is nuisance."

Hari-śauri: Temporarily, at least, it seems the demons are very powerful.

Prabhupāda: They will become powerful. And people will be less intelligent—means less God conscious. Just like when the king is weak, thieves and rogues, they flourish.

Hari-śauri: So we just have to be very strong and uncompromising.

Prabhupāda: How you can compromise with thieves and rogues? Boarding time?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The flight leaves at 5:05. They'll call. They'll call when it's time. The plane doesn't appear to be here just yet.

Prabhupāda: Although they are poor, still they can understand it easily, very easily, that you are not this body; there is God; if you don't become devotee, you'll remain in this material world. These things they will immediately understand.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Because a class of men will demand to eat the flesh. You cannot stop it. So we are giving free: you eat. And from economic point of view, we require the skin for our mṛdaṅga making. So give us the skin. That's all.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda says the butcher, even, he can sell the meat cheaply, make profit. He's getting it free of charge.

Hari-śauri: Maybe some time in the future this could happen when Kṛṣṇa consciousness becomes very powerful influence in the country, but unless we could actually close the slaughterhouse...

Prabhupāda: No, but now by imploring, we are requesting him that "You can take this cow and sell in your shop, butcher shop, you give us the skin. And you can tell the customer that it is as good, it is cheaper. So whatever money you get, that is your profit. You haven't got to invest anything."

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Do you propose that we should do this now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, no, this is... Think over.

Hari-śauri: Yes, the proposition is very good, that's a fact.

Prabhupāda: First of all, you try one butcher, that "Why not make this advantage?" How does he react, see.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: The best thing is they should be educated to become gentlemen. Keep guns, but they may not improperly use them.

Rāmeśvara: When New York City had to start borrowing money from the banks, the banks became very powerful. They were able to control the city government and get many favors.

Prabhupāda: What is that favor?

Rāmeśvara: They get special contracts, concession rates, and they are able to get their men appointed to important government positions. Also, in the national government, the government of the United States has to always borrow money from banks. There is something called National Debt. Hundreds of billions of dollars they owe the banks, the United States government, to support all their different programs.

Prabhupāda: National Debt.

Rāmeśvara: National Debt. So then the banks are able to use their power to get favors. "Oh, you want to borrow money? Then you must give me some favor." It's common knowledge.

Hari-śauri: Everyone's trying to blackmail everyone else.

Rāmeśvara: Some people say that there is a worldwide conspiracy of bankers, that they can control any government. They can cause a depression. They say that the bankers caused the depression in the 1920s, 1930s, just to increase their power.

Prabhupāda: Yes. As soon as you become dependent on me, I pay money, you can create some trouble for me. That is conspiracy(?). (pause) What is this, memory?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Looks like World War I.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: So later on, he establishes his credit (and) without any payment, he gets supplies. And they keep their credit. On the day of payment, they must pay.

Mr. Kallman: Yes, exactly.

Prabhupāda: Therefore the Marwaris, they become very big businessmen.

Mr. Kallman: Very powerful.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This Birlas, they have become so big, they have so much credit in the market that by telephone they will ask any gold merchant, that you purchase one thousand tolās of gold for me. He'll immediately purchase, because he has a credit.

Mr. Kallman: Sure, many years.

Prabhupāda: And next moment he phones another gold merchant, "What is the price," he says. Say one anna less... I'll sell one hundred tolās. So he'll purchase without any investment and sells immediately and makes one hundred tolās, one anna profit, some (indistinct).

Mr. Kallman: Sure.

Prabhupāda: By telephone.

Mr. Kallman: Very quick.

Prabhupāda: In this way, they become very, very big. They know how to use this art, these Marwaris. If you are going in India, you'll see Marwaris are very quickly, they will come. They know how to do business.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: No one thinks like that.

Prabhupāda: They are all rascals, therefore I say. They have no common sense, all rascals, dull. By eating meat they are... They may be like tigers or dogs, but they are not human beings. They may have strength of a tiger or barking capacity like a dog, but they are not human being. Useless. They cannot be used for anything human benefit, useless. We should take them like that, that "You may be a tiger, you may be a lion, you may be a dog, but you are not a human being. We do not accept you." A tiger is very powerful than ordinary human being, but that does not mean that a tiger is useful than the human being. That is not the way. (break) ...I ask, natural answer you gave, "Because it is disconnected with the mother." That is natural answer. Then how you can say the life has come from matter? Immediately you are captured. Can you say like that, that life has come without life? And they are making us believe like that.

Rāmeśvara: The body is matter.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Rāmeśvara: So at a certain stage life enters it.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Rāmeśvara: At a certain stage...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Duplicity. Duplicity.

Prabhaviṣṇu: Yes. But there are some of them that are trying to prove also that the Mahābhārata was historical.

Prabhupāda: Mahābhārata. That very name suggests history. Bigger India. Mahā means bigger, and Bhārata means India. Where is Mahāṁsa?

Prabhaviṣṇu: There is one verse in the Bhagavad-gītā, in Chapter Seven,

icchā-dveṣa samutthena
dvandva-mohena bhārata
sarva-bhūtāni saṁmohaṁ
sarge yānti parantapa
(BG 7.27)

The meaning of this verse is that all living beings in the material world are born into delusion, overcome by the duality of desire and hate. So the fact is that the living entity, he desires to become great. Just like God is very great, so the living entity wants to imitate God, and therefore he comes in this material world, and he tries to become great and very powerful. This is desire. He tries to enjoy himself. And also icchā-dveṣa. He becomes envious of the Lord. Many people in the material world, they don't like to admit that God exists or that there is someone greater than themselves because they think themselves to be the greatest. This is the disease of material life. But the cure for this disease that we have to accept...

Prabhupāda: You know that? There are so many rascals, they say, "I'm God." You know that? That is the problem. If somebody says, "I am God," is it a fact? But he says like that. He's such a rascal. That is the point.

Room Conversation with U.N. Doctor -- September 29, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Na taj janeṣu abhijñeṣu. Abhijñaḥ janeṣu, no attachment. Vyāsadeva, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, Nārada Muni, all the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, they have no respect for these. They're creating their howling habits, that's all. How there can be peace?

Doctor: Now when the Kṛṣṇa mantras...

Prabhupāda: Why do you say Kṛṣṇa panthā?

Doctor: No, mantras. I have come to mantra. Klīṁ kṛṣṇāya govindāya gopījanavallabhāya namaḥ. Is that not a very powerful Kṛṣṇa mantra?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Doctor: That is better than Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: No. Hare Kṛṣṇa is therefore called mahā-mantra.

Doctor: Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare.

Prabhupāda: Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare.

Doctor: This you regard as the, higher than any other...

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Therefore it is called mahā-mantra.

Doctor: But I was told that the Sudarśana-cakra words, mahamala parakramāyā maha patanivaya bhakta jane kalpanaya,(?) that is a very powerful mantra.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything in relationship with God is powerful. But the name in this age is the most powerful. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet (SB 12.3.51).

Garden Conversation -- October 9, 1976, Aligarh:
Prabhupāda: So that action can be taken without any hindrances. Without any impediment. Ahaituky apratihatā. That verse I was speaking yesterday, that without any cause, without any impediments, the soul can be raised by the process. Kṛṣṇa says māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Never mind one is born in low class family, poor, ugly, uneducated family. It doesn't matter. But he can be raised. What is the process? Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya. "One has to take shelter of Me." That is Kṛṣṇa conscious movement. We are giving equal chance everyone. It doesn't matter what he is. Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. Pāpa-yoni means low class, poor, uneducated, ugly, no education. That is pāpa-yoni. So they can be raised. Kṛṣṇa says. How? Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya. If he is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore it is the topmost welfare activities in the human society. Anyone can be raised. There are different grades of life all over the world. Some are black, some are white, some are ugly, some are poor. Varieties. Some are trees, some are plants, some are aquatics, some are birds, beasts, insects. Different varieties of life, 8,400,000. Some of them demigods, Brahmā, Indra, Candra. Very, very powerful. Just like this sun, that is also a planet, and the chief person is the sun-god Vivasvān. We get all this information. There is. These rascals, they do not know what are these planets, what are the arrangement. They are exactly like this planet. Just like here also, we have got president. It is expected, one president or one king in one planet. That was formerly. On this planet there was one king. The Pāṇḍavas, up to Mahārāja Parīkṣit. Five thousand years ago. One king of the whole world. One kingdom, one ruling, one culture, Vedic culture. Gradually we're losing... The culture is lost and anyone is doing as he likes. No king, no ruling. Therefore chaotic condition. Otherwise, according to God's plan, every planet there is one chief person ruling. So in the sun there is a person.
Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Yes, still father begets father, and a child cannot become father.

Mr. Malhotra: Father begets father but he feels that he may, will progress...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Father may want to see that the son is equally qualified, but still the father is father, and child is child. That is perpetual. Similarly, a part and parcel of God may be very powerful, but that does not mean that he has become God.

Mr. Malhotra: Other traditions, guru disciple, then the disciple becomes guru, then disciple. The gurus may change.

Prabhupāda: They cannot change. If there are change of guru, the disciple acts, but does not, he'll never say that I have become equal or one with guru. That is not so.

Mr. Malhotra: I am thinking about this, Swamiji, that your Guru Mahārāja is preaching through you, and you are preaching through them.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Huh? That is the truth. Actually they do not know, and they cheat others, speaking about God. That is the difficulty. All rascals are doing that. And if I say, "All rascals," it is little harsh, but it has to be said. They do not know what is God, and they speak of God. Let them say frankly that "I do not know what is God." That is answered in the Bhagavad-gītā, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). If they are sincere, then after many, many births... Kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta... (BG 12.5). They do not know, and they will not accept ācāryopāsanam. The ācārya says, Rāmānujācārya says, Madhvācārya says, big, big ācārya, Caitanya Mahāprabhu... They will not believe them. They will speculate in their nonsense speculation. This is the difficulty. Without going to the ācārya... Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). This is the Vedic process, how one can know. But they will speculate. Ciraṁ vicinvan. Athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvayaṁ jānāti tattvam... Athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvayam, leśānugṛhīta eva hi jānāti tattvaṁ na cānya eko 'pi ciraṁ vicinvan (SB 10.14.29). One who has little mercy of God upon him, he can understand, but others, they can speculate for many, many births; still, they'll never be able. Athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvayaṁ leśānugṛhīta jānāti tattvam. Leśānugṛhīta eva hi. Leśa. One cannot know God full. That is not possible because you are limited; He is unlimited. Still, if one has learned, at least if one has accepted, "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa. Bas," his knowledge is perfect. If he simply believes only that "Here is God," he can understand. They don't believe that Kṛṣṇa is God. "Eh... He may be very powerful...," so on. Kṛṣṇa says aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). These rascals will not believe. "So what is there for me?" Mūḍho nābhijānāti. If they remain persistently mūḍhas, who can make them understand? Very difficult. (Hindi) Gandhi did not believe in Kṛṣṇa. Huh?

Dr. Patel: I don't know that. I think he...

Prabhupāda: You should know. You have read Gandhi's book.

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Is the hell for them. What is this nonsense? Who will understand this? Huh? Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. And heaven, tridaśa-pūrākāśa-puṣpāyate. Heavenly planets, they are will of the wisp. Phantasmagoria. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate tridaśa-pūrākāśa-puṣpāyate durdāntendriya-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī. Karmī, jñānī... Jñānī wants kaivalya and karmī wants heavenly happiness. And the yogi, yogi wants to control the senses. So he says that "Yes, we know the senses are very powerful." Durdāntendriya-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī. Indriya, it is just like snake. If you play with a snake you do not know at any moment death is there by biting. So although these indriyas are like snakes, kāla-sarpa, venomous serpent, but protkhāta-daṁṣṭrāyate. We have... What is called? Extricated?

Girirāja: Extracted

Prabhupāda: Extracted the fangs. The fangs if they are taken away, it may do like useless. Similarly, for a devotee the indriyas are dangerous. But because devotee, hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa. they have engaged their indriyas in the service of the Lord, the fangs are taken out. Durdāntendriya-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī protkhāta-daṁṣṭrāyate viśvaṁ pūrṇa-sukhāyate. The whole universe for them is very happy. Everyone is it is very unhappy. For them it is very happy. Because he does not see anything which is not suitable for Kṛṣṇa's service. Viśvaṁ pūrṇa-sukhāyate. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate tridaśa-pūrākāśa-puṣpāyate durdānta indriya-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī protkhāta-daṁṣṭrāyate viśvaṁ pūrṇa-sukhāyate vidhi-mahendrādiś ca kīṭāyate(Caitanya-candrāmṛta 5). And the post of vidhi, means Brahmā and Mahendra... What is this? Kīṭāyate. It is just like...

Dr. Patel: Bug.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Asnani: Only sex, Prabhupāda? Or...

Prabhupāda: All sex. First of all sex.

Mr. Asnani: But among them, the sex is very powerful.

Prabhupāda: Puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etat. This is the basic principle of... A man and woman is married; the purpose is sex. Now, when he's married, ataḥ gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair. "Then where shall I enjoy sex? I must have very nice apartment, gṛha. Then I must maintain myself, kṣetra." Formerly agriculture was the source of maintenance. Ataḥ gṛha-kṣetra. "Then I get some children, suta, then some friends." Ataḥ gṛha-kṣetra-suta apta vitta. "Then money." In this way, janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti: (SB 5.5.8) "He increases this paraphernalia, and he becomes entangled:" Ahaṁ mam... "I am the proprietor; I am the father; I am this; I am that." And one day, nature's law comes, gives him a slap: "Get out!" Finished.

Mr. Asnani: All relationship goes away.

Prabhupāda: Mṛtyuḥ ahaṁ sarva-haraś ca. "I take away."

Mr. Asnani: Prabhupāda, why people are not able to understand this?

Prabhupāda: Fools! Mūḍho nābhijā...

Mr. Asnani: Even we are encircling ourselves in the desires, cage.

Prabhupāda: Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param... They do not know the aim of life. Therefore apaśyatām ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2). Cannot see what is the aim of life. Therefore it is the duty of the parents. That is advised by Prahlāda Mahārāja. Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān: (SB 7.6.1) "From the very beginning of life they should be taught about this Bhāgavata-dharma." That is brahmacārī. Brahmacārī, train him to be self-controlled... If I ask you, "Give me your sons. We shall teach him how to become self-controlled," you'll laugh. Because you know, "What will be the benefit by becoming self-controlled? There is struggle for existence. He has to earn money, maintain himself." I have got this experience.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: No, that is not easy. Therefore we say, "Restrict this." And this will be possible if he follows our program.

Rāmeśvara: You have said many times that if a small percentage of the Americans become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then the whole country can gradually become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Rāmeśvara: So that means that in the beginning we may be very powerful in government, but still, the masses of people will be karmīs still.

Prabhupāda: No. You can introduce in such a way that they will become devotees. Suppose in big, big factories we shall introduce this prasāda distribution and chanting. They'll immediately be popular. Everything will be... Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12).

Jagadīśa: In order for us to get power, by that time the illumination and knowledge of Kṛṣṇa consciousness will be widespread.

Rāmeśvara: That's what I'm wondering. I was thinking that it wouldn't be. There would be...

Jagadīśa: Otherwise how can we get through? What is the use of having one politician?

Rāmeśvara: Many revolutions have been victorious with a very small minority of people behind them because they're so well organized. Russia, Germany, all these revolutions.

Prabhupāda: That's a fact.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: Yes, actually there is... I was just told. There is one movie now which is breaking all the records for attendance. It is called "The Omen," and it is about a prophecy in the Bible called the Antichrist. This idea is that the Devil comes from hell to the planet earth, and he impregnates one woman, and then his son is born. So the son is called Antichrist, son of the Devil. And he is very powerful with mystic power, very evil, and he takes over the whole world. So there's a movie now about this, and it's breaking all the sales records. And in the movie they have all sorts of ghastly things happening. This is what people like to see. They like to be scared. Horror movies are also very popular. People go to the movie, and they come out, and they have nightmares for a week. It is so frightening with special effects, and that is... They are paying money to be frightened.

Prabhupāda: While sometimes the movies that are demonstrated in the plane, I close my eyes. I do not like to see them because that impression carries. It is a very disturbing fact to me.

Hari-śauri: Yes. It's very disturbing. Those night flights are horrible. You can't sleep or anything.

Rāmeśvara: Even this movie that we have just been involved with called "Audrey Rose," about reincarnation, in order to make it popular, they have made it very, very frightening. In order to get people to come, they have to have that element of terror.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Rāmeśvara: So they concoct different arrangements. Because people are willing to spend money to torture their own minds. No one is happy. They are very disturbed when they leave the movie theater. They are frightened. And at night they cannot sleep peacefully after seeing such movies. And they are paying money to go to these things.

Prabhupāda: And again they will take tranquilizer. Just see (laughing) how thankless task. Create something disturbing and again try to... Yesterday some men came, the Communistic temple.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: What does he say?

Bhāgavata: He said we have to... Now the ticket office is open. (laughs) This is an owl. You want to see the lake?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) The lion... What is called? Lance? Lance? They are afraid. If you have got lance, they will not attack you.

Bhāgavata: In Africa there is one tribe. They are very powerful. They are called the Masai. And with one spear they know how to kill the lion, with one throw only.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Bhāgavata: They are very expert.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they also know. If you have got lance in hand they will not attack.

Bhāgavata: It is a custom that if they want to marry, first they must kill one lion with a spear. Then they can..., considered man for marriage, qualified.

Prabhupāda: Just see. (laughs) Kṣatriya spirit. Kṣatriya spirit. Just qualify yourself. Then you marry.

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: So therefore these four animals have been mentioned: śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ (SB 2.3.19). And he is, this class of men, selecting a leader by vote, democracy. So this class man intelligence, just see. And what class of man he will select? And how we desire to be happy by such elected men who is elected by these dog, hog, camel and asses? Are there any intelligent? And you expect good government, peaceful state and... And the śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. Therefore the others, they went to see the lion. So dog, hog, camel, ass will... "Oh, he's a lion." But what is a lion? It is also an animal, big animal. That's all. Similarly, the so-called president and leader and Gandhi, they are also another animal, big animal. So does it mean an animal big and very powerful, he has got the human intelligence? This is civilization. And when you say the right thing, that human life is meant for understanding God and prepare for the next life—"brainwash." This is life. So remain like hog, dog, camel, and asses and go on, be engaged in politics and election—"Then you are right." And if you speak against this mode of civilization—"brainwash."

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Girirāja can also write one article.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Satsvarūpa Mahārāja and everybody can contribute articles, some sort of academic article, so we can reach the intellectual class with their format. But I talked about this with several Indians, the Indian scholars. They are... They think that it will be very powerful, especially in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. If we add that, then said it's going to be very much more powerful.

Prabhupāda: Yes. When we bring, present scientific basis, it must be powerful. All right, let us...

Gargamuni: I think in America that we cannot say that the general public is against us, because the book sales are increasing. It is only when the book sales decrease...

Prabhupāda: No... So how many pages these are?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We plan to print up to at least hundred pages each volume. But this is already about two hundred pages. So we are going to reduce it little bit so that we can print it in next volume.

Prabhupāda: Life From Life, we are already advertising in our BBT list.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: There cannot be exploitation if things are made in order. Just like kṣatriya should be trained up as kṣatriya. Then he is king. Not that a bhangi by vote becomes a king. This is education.

śauryaṁ tejo dhṛtir dākṣyaṁ
yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam
dānam īśvara-bhāvaś ca
kṣātraṁ karma svabhāva-jam
(BG 18.43)

He must be very powerful, very strong, strongly built. You have seen the picture, Rāmacandra? Sturdy body. You see. Lakṣmaṇa. Because kṣatriya. They should be trained up as kṣatriya. Therefore the varṇāśrama college is required to train people who is able to become a brāhmaṇa, who is able to become a kṣatriya, who is able to become... In this way division must be. And according to the quality and work there must be division for cooperation. There is a big scheme. They have lost. They do not know. All bhangis, camara, śūdras, they are simply given vote. That's all. Where is the training?

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That's all. These rascals are giving stress on the legs. And the capitalists, they are giving stress on production. And where is the kṣatriya and brāhmaṇa?

Hari-śauri: Well, they're all giving stress to accumulation of weapons. They're all giving stress to...

Prabhupāda: That is not kṣatriya's business. That is... That is... No, that is described. Kṛṣṇa said... He arranged the battlefield, because the kṣatriyas, they became very powerful by individual military strength as it is now...

Hari-śauri: Accumulation.

Prabhupāda: Ha. So Kṛṣṇa arranged: "All right, you come together and finish yourselves." So this arrangement will be done that all atomic bomb will come in warfield-one, next, third war, finished. All these, all these demons will be finished. That is not kṣatriya. This is demonic. Kṣatriyas' business is to see that the four orders of life are maintained properly, not increasing military strength only, overburdened. Everyone is spending 75% of the revenue for military. Huh? Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). So they are demons. Why so much money should be spent for military? They are not kṣatriyas. They are not kṣatriyas. They are demons. So demons... As soon as there will be number of demons increased, there will be war and finish all.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, then the authorities are, mean, determined to stop this.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. It's a dangerous position. This is actually is dangerous position, because they are very powerful. There are many lobbying people. In other words, there are big groups of Christian, Jewish groups. They are especially active because they see that these other movements, not only ours, are taking the young people away from their religions. So they are actively collecting money and giving it to the deprogrammers. They are supplying funds. Just like one man gave this Phoenix, Arizona, center a donation of a hundred thousand dollars to set up their center for taking these young people. And they are internationally organized. They have big centers all over the world now.

Brahmānanda: London, France, Australia, South America.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Canada, Australia. The problem is that... Actually it's a fact that many of these groups are bad. They're cheating. Of course, ours is not, but because they're not very intelligent, they cannot see the distinction. Probably as a result of this court case, we will make them aware that now the other groups are bogus but we are not. That they'll have to admit. That will be the effect. But at least up until now we are being lumped in with these other bad groups. Cults, they call them. But it's a very dangerous thing. Therefore the lawyers and all of the scholars and intelligentsia of the United States is very alarmed that this is a great treading on human rights. This is a great danger to human rights because the Fifth Amendment of the... The First Amendment of the United States Constitution guarantees the freedom of religion. But according to these laws that they want to pass, a parent can say, "It is not a question of religion. My son has become abnormal." So who is to say what is religion and what is abnormal? They are saying, "This is not religion." So we have to prove, "No, this is... Hare Kṛṣṇa is a religion." Otherwise they are saying this is abnormal. Now, just... Our lawyer has pointed out that if you say that the devotees' preaching is brainwash, then you must say that every single Christian priest who preaches, he is also brainwashing.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Support.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Support.

Brahmānanda: And they're even talking that maybe the government will give financial grant.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are afraid that these Kṛṣṇa conscious men may capture the government.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Some of them are saying like that, "This organization, the Kṛṣṇa con..., is a very powerful organization, and their ambition is to take over the world."

Prabhupāda: (laughs) And that's a fact. (laughter) Well, let us see. (laughter) It is a fight between Kṛṣṇa and demon. Let us do our duty and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Everything will be all right. There are so many demons. Prahlāda Mahārāja was five-years-old boy, and his father, such a big demon... The fight was at home. Still, Prahlāda Mahārāja gained victory. Similarly, you are all Prahlāda Mahārāja, (laughs) and your fathers are great demons. The fight is there. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Depend on Kṛṣṇa. You'll come out victorious. Nṛsiṁha-deva will come. So the poison of (laughing) Kṛṣṇa consciousness is acting now. That is good. If we come out victorious, then it will be a great victory.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). It is Kṛṣṇa's wonderful mercy that one can get guru. Guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya. Don't forget for a moment, that Kṛṣṇa is insignificant. He's always the most wonderful. He can do anything, whatever He likes. They have no such belief. They have no such idea. They are different. "We believe in this." Not believe. This is a fact! You believe or not believe, who cares for you? Fact is fact. So arrange. We shall go. (break) "...Kṛṣṇa is wonderful," that makes one perfect. You know that story? The cobbler and Nārada Muni? Hm? The cobbler believed, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is wonderful." And Nārada Muni immediately certified, "Yes, your salvation, this life guaranteed." The cobbler has his conviction, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is wonderful. Kṛṣṇa can do anything. Kṛṣṇa can draw an elephant through the hole of a needle. Why not? It's possible." That faith made him perfect. If Kṛṣṇa is not wonderful, is it possible for me to do all these things? What I am?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Sometimes people ask whether I have seen anything very powerful in Śrīla Prabhupāda. I sometimes answer, saying that when Śrīla Prabhupāda came to the United States, all the foreign disciples, all the Americans, they all because of their social structure, eating all kinds of things, but they are all now pure Vaiṣṇavas. So it is the greatest wonder that one can expect. So they become very silent, just hearing the answer, seeing that there is something very powerful.

Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all they admitted in that Voice, that "We thought God is dead. Here Swamiji has brought." They admitted like that. (break) ...wife, she is also coming from very respectable family. Her father, grandfather all... Doctor had big...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Allahabad. Dr. Ghosh.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Director of... (break) So arrange for that. (break) ...part of the country where there is vigorous malaria.

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And our Sudāmā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He has a very expansive area, Bali-mardana, just like his namesake.

Prabhupāda: Bali. Bali means very powerful.

Satsvarūpa: Then Ātreya Ṛṣi will retain the Mid-East zone. And that's all we did today.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Very good. All right.

Devotees: Jaya. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: So you have to understand it. How you can, mean, simplify it?

Rāmeśvara: But just like sometimes for Back to Godhead...

Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all come to the practical point. How he'll make it more easily understandable. Dharma-kṣetra is a place. Māyāpur is a place. There is...

Rāmeśvara: That cannot be changed.

Prabhupāda: So everything is like that. Why do you endeavor to make it easier?

Rāmeśvara: I think their point is like this, that sometimes in Back to Godhead...

Prabhupāda: Give me some example that "This is difficult, and if you put it in this way it will be easier."

Conversation with Patita-pavana -- April 20, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, in our new house.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Still have to go up.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Both of them are very old?

Patita-pāvana: No. The wife is rather old. He has some problem with lungs. He's about sixty-five. The other is seventy-two. The other one walks like a Sherman tank, very powerful.

Prabhupāda: So we cannot give...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What we could do...

Prabhupāda: Here there is no difficulty with lift.

Patita-pāvana: With the lift, yes. Fine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, but they're... I mean, there's no problem for getting them here to see you. The problem is whether they can..., where they will live, their residential quarters.

Girirāja: I was thinking of the Chand Society.

Prabhupāda: That's nice, Chand Society. There are three rooms. That is very nice.

Evening Darsana -- May 15, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Indian man (1): Not for that.

Prabhupāda: If you practice muṣṭika, naturally you become very stout and strong. There are many wrestlers. They have got very strong body. But yoga does not mean that. Yoga means to find out the antaryāmī, Paramātmā, within the core of the heart. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). This information we get from the śāstra, that God is also situated within the core of the heart of every living... Sarva-bhūtānām. It is not that God is sitting in the core of the heart of the human being and not in the core of the heart of the dogs. He is there also. But the difference is that the dog cannot find out; man can find out. Therefore he is educated, taught about the yoga system so that constantly he can meditate upon antaryāmī, viṣṇu-mūrti. Perhaps you have seen the picture. We have got that picture. But that is the purpose of yoga, not to make the body strong or the mind very powerful. That is automatically done. Aiye. It does not require separate attempt. Just like if you get one thousand of rupees, ten rupees is already there. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. If you get Kṛṣṇa, then you get all perfection. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. Catur-vidhā bhajante mām. Four kinds of men, catur-vidhā, sukṛtinaḥ. If there is piety on the background, not the rascals or sinful man... Therefore śāstra always recommends to be pious, because a pious man has got the future chance of understanding God.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Actually this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a process of making this animal society into human civilization. At the present moment especially, all animals. I take them as animals. Therefore I say so boldly. I care for them. They are animals. That's all. Maybe very well do. I have not said. Bhāgavata says. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). What are these leaders? Paśu. "Paśu? And they are so much held in estimation." Whom? By whom? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ: "They are in estimation by the dogs and hogs and camels and asses." Actually they have no position. The public is dog, hog, camel and.... And they are selecting one leader. So what he should be? Another big paśu, another big camel, another big ass. That's all. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. (Bengali) A big animal. These leaders, they are only big animals. Just like in the jungle, a lion. A very powerful. Then does it mean that he's human being? He's animal. May be an elephant or lion, but he's not human being. A human child is more important than this lion. It doesn't matter that the human child is taken away by the lion and immediately killed or carried. That does not make the lion very important. (Bengali) A big paśu.

Conversation with Surendra Kumar and O.B.L. Kapoor -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What is the news?

Surendra Kumar: Is he permanently staying there?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, traveling around.

Surendra Kumar: Because I know two very powerful Indians who have settled there.

Prabhupāda: The sales report, book report.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Book sales report?

Prabhupāda: Hm. (background conversation about Ghanaśyāma and preaching in Communist countries)

Surendra Kumar: Actually, what you are doing nobody else has been doing in the past.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Surendra Kumar: Everybody is aware of our great heritage except ourselves. That is the most unfortunate thing.

Prabhupāda: The sales report, what is?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is sales report we just received. It's as of March 6, 1977. It reports the book sales in each language up to date. (reads book distribution figures)

Surendra Kumar: Can I have a copy of this?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Surendra Kumar: Your Divine Grace, when I will write the personal letter to...

Prabhupāda: Give him whatever he wants.

Conversation -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But whatever they're doing, simply by training, that there may be some...

Mr. Myer: Yes. We can develop some sort of training program. The gurukula facilities are there. So if some young men are taken who are trained in that fashion, they could do quite a lot. And then we are having major problem in the distribution of some of the literature. You see, Back to Godhead seems to be a very powerful magazine. It has always been very dear to you. You started this even in India. Unfortunately it comes one year late, and we have about several thousand members in India. So I was wondering whether we should try to publish it in India now, because the quantity is not enough. And then have some members who are subscribing for the Back to Godhead... Because some people are unable to afford the very large membership. Otherwise we will remain very exclusive. We won't be able to reach the common man. So one of the things is that each man who comes into the temple, if he can buy a copy of Back to Godhead magazine, he takes away something with him which he can remember. Otherwise people come to Mathurā, they visit so many temples, and they don't carry any souvenir.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we're selling our literature here.

Mr. Myer: Yeah, but that's very old. Some of the copies are very old.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But they don't know that when they buy it.

Mr. Myer: And secondly, that doesn't cover much of the activity in India.

Prabhupāda: There is no "old." By date it does not become old.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, it is not.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gauḍīya Maṭha is ineffective. And the Christians are not big.

Prabhupāda: This guṇḍā class, they do not like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Ramakrishna also does not. They say that Caitanya had men. In Orissa also the people emasculated. In Orissa they say that since Mahārāja Pratāparudra met Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he lost his kṣatriya strength. He was very powerful king, but since he met Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he became effeminate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is your answer to that?

Prabhupāda: That is the Orissa government's principle.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is our answer to that? Our reply?

Prabhupāda: What you can reply if you conclude something like... They have no idea of spiritual life. This is disrupting, na dhanaṁ na janam. We don't want this. And they want it. So how you can reply? Everyone wants this, and we say, "We don't want." How you can make compromise? Therefore they say "emasculated." In your country also. "Why? What is the wrong, illicit sex? What is the wrong, intoxication?" They say, "Brainwash. Why not?" Is it not? It is very difficult to push on this movement. Still, we are going. That is Kṛṣṇa's grace.

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Śatadhanya: No. He just said it's very powerful medicine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What time should it be taken? Morning and night?

Śatadhanya: Morning and evening.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Any particular time in the morning?

Śatadhanya: No.

Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, would you like to take some now?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not? Huh? Tamāla?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Simply with honey.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: On the whole, it is favorable. Hm?

Girirāja: Oh, yes. There is a tremendous scope. And the royal family is very powerful. They run the whole country, and, of course, they're Hindus. So I also went with Prabhaviṣṇu to meet one relation of the Queen Mother, and this lady was very enthusiastic about our activities. So I discussed with Prabhaviṣṇu the strategy how to approach the royal family, and... It's a Hindu state. They don't claim to be secular, like in India, so...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hopeful.

Girirāja: Yes, it is hopeful. Then he has one local boy who has joined, Nepali, and he's a very nice boy. I mean, there's so much field for preaching. There's the royal family, then there's membership for the business community, and there's saṅkīrtana and book distribution for the general people, and then also there are many hippies there. So we could recruit devotees from amongst them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The hippies seem to be still our best customers, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The hippies seem to be still very good customers. (Prabhupāda laughs)

Girirāja: That's because Prabhupāda's patita-pāvana. And the temple atmosphere is nice. It's mainly saṅkīrtana. There are no women there, so very good atmosphere. They have a nice program. They have a love feast program, and many people are coming. I think they can have two or three hundred people coming very soon. And the people are very simple and good natured. Everywhere we went, people would chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They recognized the devotees?

Girirāja: Yes. And they're not envious. It seems that in India many of the people are a little envious of us, but everywhere we went in Nepal, it seemed that the people were very happy to see us.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Have you ever been there, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No.

Page Title:Very powerful (Conversations)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:18 of Mar, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=67, Let=0
No. of Quotes:67