Very advanced devotees

Expressions researched:
"very advanced devotee" |"very advanced devotees"

SB Canto 4

For all practical purposes, the whole world is full of nondevotees, and so one kind of very advanced devotee is called bhajanānandī.

SB 4.13.10, Translation and Purport:

Utkala appeared to the less intelligent persons on the road to be foolish, blind, dumb, deaf and mad, although actually he was not so. He remained like fire covered with ashes, without blazing flames.

In order to avoid contradiction, botheration and unfavorable situations created by materialistic persons, a great saintly person like Jaḍa Bharata or Utkala remains silent. The less intelligent consider such saintly persons to be mad, deaf or dumb. Factually, an advanced devotee avoids speaking with persons who are not in devotional life, but to those who are in devotional life he speaks in friendship, and he speaks to the innocent for their enlightenment. For all practical purposes, the whole world is full of nondevotees, and so one kind of very advanced devotee is called bhajanānandī. Those who are goṣṭhy-ānandī, however, preach to increase the number of devotees. But even such preachers also avoid opposing elements who are unfavorably disposed towards spiritual life.

A very advanced devotee does not think himself advanced. He is always very humble.

SB 4.30.29, Translation and Purport:

When the Lord, out of His natural compassion, thinks of His devotee, by that process only are all desires of the neophyte devotee fulfilled. The Lord is situated in every living entity's heart, although the living entity may be very insignificant. The Lord knows everything about the living entity, including all his desires. Although we are very insignificant, why should the Lord not know our desires?

A very advanced devotee does not think himself advanced. He is always very humble. The Supreme Personality of Godhead in His plenary expansion as the Paramātmā, or Supersoul, sits in everyone's heart and can understand the attitudes and desires of His devotees. The Lord also gives opportunity to the nondevotees to fulfill their desires, as confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā (mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15)).

SB Canto 5

Lord Ṛṣabhadeva instructed His one hundred sons, of whom the eldest, Bharata, was a very advanced devotee and a follower of Vaiṣṇavas.

SB 5.5.28, Translation and Purport:

Śukadeva Gosvāmī said: Thus the great well-wisher of everyone, the Supreme Lord Ṛṣabhadeva, instructed His own sons. Although they were perfectly educated and cultured, He instructed them just to set an example of how a father should instruct his sons before retiring from family life. Sannyāsīs, who are no longer bound by fruitive activity and who have taken to devotional service after all their material desires have been vanquished, also learn by these instructions. Lord Ṛṣabhadeva instructed His one hundred sons, of whom the eldest, Bharata, was a very advanced devotee and a follower of Vaiṣṇavas. In order to rule the whole world, the Lord enthroned His eldest son on the royal seat. Thereafter, although still at home, Lord Ṛṣabhadeva lived like a madman, naked and with disheveled hair. Then the Lord took the sacrificial fire within Himself, and He left Brahmāvarta to tour the whole world.

Actually the instructions given to Lord Ṛṣabhadeva's sons were not exactly meant for His sons because they were already educated and highly advanced in knowledge. Rather, these instructions were meant for sannyāsīs who intend to become advanced devotees. Sannyāsīs must abide by Lord Ṛṣabhadeva's instructions while on the path of devotional service. Lord Ṛṣabhadeva retired from family life and lived like a naked madman even while still with His family.

SB Canto 7

A very advanced devotee in Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not want riches, followers or possessions.

SB 7.7.39, Purport:

The pure souls are eternally in love with Kṛṣṇa, and this permanent love, either as a servant, a friend, a parent or a conjugal lover, is not at all difficult to revive. Especially in this age, the concession is that simply by chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra (harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21)) one revives his original relationship with God and thus becomes so happy that he does not want anything material. As enunciated by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4). A very advanced devotee in Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not want riches, followers or possessions. Rāyaḥ kalatraṁ paśavaḥ sutādayo gṛhā mahī kuñjara-kośa-bhūtayaḥ. The satisfaction of possessing material opulences, although perhaps of a different standard, is available even in the lives of dogs and hogs, who cannot revive their eternal relationship with Kṛṣṇa. In human life, however, our eternal, dormant relationship with Kṛṣṇa is possible to revive. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja has described this life as arthadam. Consequently, instead of wasting our time for economic development, which cannot give us any happiness, if we simply try to revive our eternal relationship with Kṛṣṇa, we will properly utilize our lives.

CC Adi-lila

The Māyāvādī philosophers have presented their arguments in such attractive, flowery language that hearing Māyāvāda philosophy may sometimes change the mind of even a mahā-bhāgavata, or very advanced devotee.

CC Adi 7.110, Purport:

When Śrī Viṣṇu Svāmī, one of the four ācāryas of the Vaiṣṇava cult, presented his thesis on the subject matter of śuddhādvaita-vāda, immediately the Māyāvādīs took advantage of this philosophy and tried to establish their advaita-vāda or kevalādvaita-vāda. To defeat this kevalādvaita-vāda, Śrī Rāmānujācārya presented his philosophy as viśiṣṭādvaita-vāda, and Śrī Madhvācārya presented his philosophy of tattva-vāda, both of which are stumbling blocks to the Māyāvādīs because they defeat their philosophy in scrupulous detail. Students of Vedic philosophy know very well how strongly Śrī Rāmānujācārya's viśiṣṭādvaita-vāda and Śrī Madhvācārya's tattva-vāda contest the impersonal Māyāvāda philosophy. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, however, accepted the direct meaning of the Vedānta philosophy and thus defeated the Māyāvāda philosophy immediately. He opined in this connection that anyone who follows the principles of the Śārīraka-bhāṣya is doomed. This is confirmed in the Padma Purāṇa, where Lord Śiva tells Pārvatī:

śṛṇu devi pravakṣyāmi tāmasāni yathā-kramam

yeṣāṁ śravaṇa-mātreṇa pātityaṁ jñāninām api

apārthaṁ śruti-vākyānāṁ darśayal loka-garhitam

karma-svarūpa-tyājyatvam atra ca pratipādyate

sarva-karma-paribhraṁśān naiṣkarmyaṁ tatra cocyate

parātma-jīvayor aikyaṁ mayātra pratipādyate

"My dear wife, hear my explanations of how I have spread ignorance through Māyāvāda philosophy. Simply by hearing it, even an advanced scholar will fall down. In this philosophy, which is certainly very inauspicious for people in general, I have misrepresented the real meaning of the Vedas and recommended that one give up all activities in order to achieve freedom from karma. In this Māyāvāda philosophy I have described the jīvātmā and Paramātmā to be one and the same." How the Māyāvāda philosophy was condemned by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and His followers is described in Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Antya-līlā, Second Chapter, verses 94 through 99, where Svarūpa-dāmodara Gosvāmī says that anyone who is eager to understand the Māyāvāda philosophy must be considered insane. This especially applies to a Vaiṣṇava who reads the Śārīraka-bhāṣya and considers himself to be one with God. The Māyāvādī philosophers have presented their arguments in such attractive, flowery language that hearing Māyāvāda philosophy may sometimes change the mind of even a mahā-bhāgavata, or very advanced devotee. An actual Vaiṣṇava cannot tolerate any philosophy that claims God and the living being to be one and the same.

Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, remarks that sometimes a mahā-bhāgavata, or very advanced devotee, does not manifest such transcendental symptoms as tears in the eyes, whereas sometimes a kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, a neophyte devotee, displays them artificially.

CC Adi 8.25, Purport:

Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, commenting on this verse, which is a quotation from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (2.3.24), remarks that sometimes a mahā-bhāgavata, or very advanced devotee, does not manifest such transcendental symptoms as tears in the eyes, whereas sometimes a kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, a neophyte devotee, displays them artificially. This does not mean, however, that the neophyte is more advanced than the mahā-bhāgavata devotee. The test of the real change of heart that takes place when one chants the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra is that one becomes detached from material enjoyment. This is the real change. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra ca (SB 11.2.42). If one is actually advancing in spiritual life, he must become very much detached from material enjoyment. If it is sometimes found that a kaniṣṭha-adhikārī (neophyte devotee) shows artificial tears in his eyes while chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra but is still completely attached to material things, his heart has not really changed. The change must be manifested in terms of one's real activities.

CC Antya-lila

CC Antya 16.6, Translation:

Kālidāsa was a very advanced devotee, yet he was simple and liberal. He would chant the holy name of Kṛṣṇa while performing all his ordinary dealings.

Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures

So Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja is very advanced devotee.

Lecture on SB 1.8.48 -- Los Angeles, May 10, 1973:

So Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja is very advanced devotee. He says that paśyata ajñānam: "Just see my ignorance. I have killed so many soldiers simply for this body." Paśyata ajñānaṁ me hṛdi rūḍhaṁ durātmanaḥ: "And this ignorance is deeply rooted in my heart." People are... Every step, they are being baffled; still, they will do the same thing. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). No sense is coming. No sense is coming. Durātmanaḥ. Not mahātmanaḥ. Mahātmanaḥ means he is no more interested in this kind of business. That is called mahātmanaḥ. Those who are repeatedly engaged in this kind of business, they are called durātmanaḥ. Only for the body's sake working very hard. So if you analyze, the whole world is doing that. Durātmanaḥ.

Here the important point is about monarchy. There are different types of government, of which monarchy is the most prominent style.

Lecture on SB 5.5.28 -- Vrndavana, November 15, 1976:

Pradyumna: "Śukadeva Gosvāmī said: Thus the great well-wisher of everyone, the Supreme Lord, Ṛṣabhadeva, instructed His own sons. Although they were perfectly educated and cultured, He instructed them just to set an example of how a father should instruct his sons before retiring from family life. Sannyāsīs, who are no longer bound by fruitive activity and who have taken to devotional service after all their material desires have been vanquished, also learn by these instructions. Lord Ṛṣabhadeva instructed His one hundred sons, of whom the eldest, Bharata, was a very advanced devotee and a follower of Vaiṣṇavas. In order to rule the whole world, the Lord enthroned His eldest son on the royal seat. Thereafter, although still at home, Lord Ṛṣabhadeva lived like a madman, naked and with disheveled hair. Then the Lord took the sacrificial fire within Himself, and He left Brahmavarta to tour the whole world."

Prabhupāda:

evam anuśāsyātmajān svayam anuśiṣṭān api loka-anuśāsanārthaṁ mahānubhāvaḥ...

(SB 5.5.28)

Here the important point is about monarchy. There are different types of government, of which monarchy is the most prominent style. Formerly everywhere, all over the world, the monarchy was prevalent. Even up to date some of the countries, they are maintaining monarchy but only in name actually. The monarch has no power. So monarchy is good so long the king is as ideal as Bharata Mahārāja, Ṛṣabhadeva, Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, Mahārāja Parīkṣit, Lord Rāmacandra. That is the perfect type of monarchy. We have description of Rāma-rājya. We have got the word nowadays. They sometimes use Rāma-rājya party, but without Rāma. This is their policy. Where is that Rāma? When Lord Rāmacandra returned from the forest, His brother, Bharata, was ruling as a saintly person. But as soon as the eldest brother came back, He entreated that "Now You sit down on the throne." But He first of all tested what kind of people in generally there are in the Ayodhyā. So when He understood that all the citizens, they are strictly following the varṇāśrama-dharma, then He agreed to accept the throne.

Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has written in his Caitanya-śikṣāmṛta, we can understand a Vaiṣṇava very nicely when we see that he has converted so many conditioned soul into Vaiṣṇava life. That is the estimation of a Vaiṣṇava. If I simply try for myself—I may be very advanced devotee—that is not very much appreciated by Kṛṣṇa.

Lecture on SB 7.9.44 -- Delhi, March 26, 1976:

So only the devotee, Kṛṣṇa conscious devotee, he can deliver them. He goes from town to town, village to village, house to house, to bring this message of Kṛṣṇa and deliver him. Prahlāda Mahārāja is promising, naitān vihāya kṛpaṇān vimumuksa eko: "I do not wish to go alone. Give me some strength so that I can deliver some of them. It is not possible to deliver all of them." But that is a very important engagement for Vaiṣṇava. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has written in his Caitanya-śikṣāmṛta, we can understand a Vaiṣṇava very nicely when we see that he has converted so many conditioned soul into Vaiṣṇava life. That is the estimation of a Vaiṣṇava. If I simply try for myself—I may be very advanced devotee—that is not very much appreciated by Kṛṣṇa. Prāyeṇa deva munayaḥ sva-vimukti-kāmā. Everyone is interested. There are goṣṭhy-ānandī and bhajanānandī. Bhajanānandī is interested for his own welfare, or they think it that he is not competent enough to preach; therefore he does not go for preaching work. Sva-vimukti-kāmā: "Let me look after my own affairs." "Oil your own machine."

So this is another stage, and other stage is a devotee taking all risk, preaching for the benefit of the whole human society. He is called goṣṭhy-ānandī, increasing the number of devotees. That is preferred by Kṛṣṇa. It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, ya imaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati: "Anyone who is engaged in preaching this confidential science of Bhagavad-gītā," na ca tasmād manuṣyeṣu kaścid me priya-kṛttamaḥ, "nobody is dearer to Me than he is." So if you want very quickly recognition by Kṛṣṇa, go on preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Even if it imperfectly done, but because you are sincere in your capa..., whatever capacity you have got, if you preach, then Kṛṣṇa will be very much pleased. I have seen practically.

Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures

Kavirāja Gosvāmī is very, very advanced devotee and scholar. He is not ordinary human being. He was empowered by Madana-mohana.

Lecture on CC Adi-lila 1.3 -- Mayapur, March 27, 1975:

So Kṛṣṇa is para-tattva, accepted by all ācāryas. We are not talking of the fools and rascals who are theorizing without any knowledge. We are concerned with the authorities. So authorities... Especially in India, the whole Vedic system is being followed by the people under the authorities of the ācārya. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda. One who is following the path of the ācāryas, he knows. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda. We cannot accept anyone as authority if he does not follow the paramparā, disciplic succession of ācārya. That is the Vedic system. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). So Kṛṣṇa is para-tattva. Na caitanyāt kṛṣṇāt jagati para-tattvaṁ param iha. He is very emphatically asserting that "There is no more greater truth than Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa Caitanya." So according to the Vedic system, if you say something very emphatically, you must prove by Vedic evidences. Otherwise you can go on talking; nobody will hear. Sometimes people ask us about Kṛṣṇa and Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that "What is the Vedic evidences?" So that Vedic evidences will be given, later chapters of Caitanya-caritāmṛta. He is not falsely asserting. Kavirāja Gosvāmī is very, very advanced devotee and scholar. He is not ordinary human being. He was empowered by Madana-mohana.

Brāhmaṇa means he must be very learned scholar and a very advanced devotee.

Lecture on CC Madhya-lila 20.100-108 -- Bombay, November 9, 1975:

So approaching the guru, Sanātana Gosvāmī, his submission was that "People in general, they talk of me as very learned scholar." He was very good scholar in Sanskrit, in Arabic and Persian language because he was minister, very responsible post. So... And he was born in brāhmaṇa family, Sārasvata brāhmaṇa family. So naturally he was supposed to be very learned scholar, paṇḍita, brāhmaṇa paṇḍita. Still we address a brāhmaṇa as paṇḍitajī. Never we address a brāhmaṇa as mūrkhajī. So, that is the etiquette. Brāhmaṇa means he must be very learned scholar and a very advanced devotee. Brāhmaṇa paṇḍita, brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇava. These are the qualification of brāhmaṇa. So naturally he was addressed as paṇḍitajī, but he denied to accept that he is actually paṇḍita. So he submitted that,

grāmya-vyavahāre kahaye paṇḍita satya kari māni

āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jāni

That "People, they address me as paṇḍita, but I am such a paṇḍita that I do not now what I am." This is the position of everyone. Everyone is very much proud of his learning, scientific knowledge and so on, so on. But if you ask him, "What you are?" "I am Indian," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya," "I am American." This is the answer you'll get. But that is, I am not. I am not this body. This is the beginning of paṇḍita. This is the beginning. Bhagavad-gītā teaches in the beginning this primary lesson, that "You are not this body."

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

śaktimān, the all spirit, therefore those who are very advanced devotees, for, in their vision, there is nothing material.

Morning Walk -- March 30, 1974, Bombay:

Chandobhai: As I understand, or I am given to understand is that... (break) ...they accepted it...

Prabhupāda: The... (break) That is not required now. For the time being. That is not required now. (break)

Dr. Patel: ...bhāvam eka-stham anupaśyati, tata eva ca vistāraṁ brahma sampadyate tadā (BG 13.31).

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because... Just these elements, material elements, bhūta, they are Kṛṣṇa's energy. Therefore one who knows Kṛṣṇa, he does not take anything as material. Because it is Kṛṣṇa's energy. So Kṛṣṇa's energy means... What is called?

Dr. Shah: Property.

Prabhupāda: No, there is a verse. Śakti-śaktimator abhedaḥ. Abhedaḥ. Śakti means energy, and the śaktimān... That... śaktimān is called śaktimat. So because it comes from the śaktimān, śaktimān, the all spirit, therefore those who are very advanced devotees, for, in their vision, there is nothing material.

Chandobhai: There is no separation.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is nothing. Abheda. Because it is admitted that bhinnā prakṛtir me aṣṭadhā. So this is śakti. And śaktimat is Kṛṣṇa. So when it is emanating from Kṛṣṇa... Therefore it is called inferior. Inferior. Inferior. He does not say...

Indian 3: Because it is not possible without śaktimān.

Prabhupāda: Without śaktimān.

1969 Correspondence

Because Lord Siva is Grhastha, so by his past habits if he appeared to have been attracted by sex life, that does not mean he has been degraded from his position. You should never think of any devotee like that. There are many other stories also, but such apparent falling is without any influence to very very advanced devotees.

Letter to Himavati -- Hawaii 23 March, 1969:

Regarding your question about Lord Siva and Thakura Haridasa, and their different response to sex agitation: This does not mean that Lord Siva has become degraded from the devotional platform. A devotee even if he is sometimes found that he is attracted by sex life, that does not mean he is degraded. That is by chance. Because Lord Siva is Grhastha, so by his past habits if he appeared to have been attracted by sex life, that does not mean he has been degraded from his position. You should never think of any devotee like that. There are many other stories also, but such apparent falling is without any influence to very very advanced devotees. A neophyte should always be careful. One should not discuss about such great devotees' apparent fall-down. Just like one should not discuss about the sun who evaporates urine from the earth; it is possible for the sun to do it, and still remain the sun, but for ordinary man if he lives in a filthy place he will be infected. So Lord Siva or Lord Brahma, they are highly elevated devotees, and we should not try to criticize about their behavior even though it appears against the rules. These things are very nicely explained in Srimad-Bhagavatam in course of discussion between Maharaja Pariksit and Sukadeva Goswami, in the 10th canto.