Prabhupāda: The standard of living, comforts, are many, many thousands times better than this planet. But in this book, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, we get information that within this material universe, wherever you go, either you remain in this planet or you go to the moon planet or to the sun planet, or there are millions and trillions of planets... The highest planetary system is called Brahmaloka. There the duration of life is very, very great. You cannot calculate even twelve hours of their days. These are described in this book, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam arhad yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). Four hundred... Three thousand years is the duration... Four hundred and, yes, four hundred and three thousands of years, solar years, is the one unit of yuga. Such thousand yugas makes twelve hours of the Brahmaloka planet. Similarly, they live there for a hundred years. But these four things, namely birth, death, old age, and disease, these four things are everywhere, either you live in this planet or moon planet or sun planet or any other planet. The duration of life may be very, very great. Just like in comparison to the ant, our life, human being—we have got hundred years age—so to the ant it may be very astonishing: "Oh, how such a great length of time one can live?" Similarly, we may be astonished by hearing twelve hours duration of Brahmaloka, but actually there is. But still, you cannot avoid death. Death is there. So from this book we understand from the version of Kṛṣṇa, or God, that ā-brahma bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16). Even if you go to the highest planetary system, again you have to come back. In this way, all living entities are rotating from one planet to another, from one species of life to another.
Version (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"version"
|"versions"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So this meditation process is not possible at the present age. This meditation was recommended, according to Vedic literature, in the golden age, when the duration of life was very, very long, people were peaceful, there was no disturbance. The exact version in the Vedas is kṛte. Kṛte means in the golden age, when everyone is pious. That is called kṛta-yuga, age of kṛta, very pious age. So in those ages people used to live one hundred thousands of years, and they were very pure, there was no sinful activity. In that stage, meditation was possible. Meditation requires certain principles. You have to select a solitary, sacred place. You have to sit alone. You have to close your eyes half, not full. If you close your eyes full, then you will sleep. And you have to concentrate on the tip of your nose, and you have to sit straight under posture, and then you have to exercise the breathing. If your inhalation is going this side, then you have to breathe this side.
Prabhupāda: He's thinking everything in relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Here the man, distributing food to the animals and fish, he's thinking that "I am doing some pious activities and I shall enjoy the fruit of it." And that's a fact. But if we distribute Kṛṣṇa prasādam, we think that "This man is being supplied Kṛṣṇa prasādam, one day he may become Kṛṣṇa conscious." There is no personal question. And the principle of distributing Kṛṣṇa prasādam is there. Therefore even they don't say any charge, if you distribute the prasādam, if you are able, you are doing some service. Because by eating only, he shall one day become Kṛṣṇa conscious. So whole program is for Kṛṣṇa. And that is Kṛṣṇa karma.(?) You are preparing, you are earning money, you are distributing prasādam. Why? For Kṛṣṇa's sake. Otherwise, why should you work so hard? But we have voluntarily accepted, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Samsiddhir hari-tosanam. Everyone may act in his own duty. It doesn't matter what kind of duty he has got. But he has to see whether by execution of that duty Kṛṣṇa is satisfied. Then he's successful. That is the version in the Srimad-Bhāgavatam:
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: It is very difficult in this age. Then you have to restrain yourself in so many things. Complete free from sex life. You have to eat under certain direction, you have to... So many things there are. These rules are not followed. Simply they have got some bodily gymnastic sitting posture. They are thinking, "I am practicing." No. That is one of the items. So all the items cannot be observed in this age. Therefore it is wasting. (Break) "...yogis, he who always abides in Me with great faith, worshiping Me in transcendental loving service is most intimately united with Me in yoga and is the highest of all." This is the goal of yoga practice. So that is possible very easily by this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not by any other process. And the ultimate goal is here. One should be always abiding with God, worshiping Him, transcendental loving service, and intimately united with Him, intimately. This intimate unity means that five kinds of relationship. That is the perfection of yoga. When Kṛṣṇa has advised yoga practice, sāṅkhya-yoga... You have Bhagavad-gītā? There is sāṅkhya-yoga. You'll find in the forty-seventh verse. This is the version.
Prabhupāda: That is very nice statement that in the Kali-yuga salvation is very easier. That is the version of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also, but that process is this kīrtana, not LSD.
Allen Ginsberg: Well, it was... The reasoning there, was that for those who would only accept salvation in purely material form, in chemical form finally, and completely material form...
Prabhupāda: Hmm. So where is the salvation when there is...
Allen Ginsberg: ...that Kṛṣṇa had the humor to emerge as a pill.
Prabhupāda: No, the thing is that any of these material forms...
Allen Ginsberg: Yes?
Prabhupāda: He believes in spiritual body. That's nice. (laughter)
Allen Ginsberg: It's a,...
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa Consciousness.
Allen Ginsberg: ...it's Blake's version.
Prabhupāda: (to Hayagrīva) I think you wrote one article about this?
Hayagrīva: Enlight... I think in one of the Kṛṣṇa Consciousness poetry, I mentioned Blake.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
John Lennon: I've read bits of the Bhagavad-gītā. I don't know which version it was. There's so many different translations.
Prabhupāda: There are different translations. Therefore I have given this edition, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. There are interpretations. In many translations they have got interpretations. Not only in other parts of the world, but in our own country also. Just like Mahatma Gandhi. He was a great man. He has also interpreted. But the point is interpretation where required. Now, here is a fountain pen box. Everyone knows this is a fountain pen box. But if I say, "No, this is something else." That is my interpretation. Is that very nice thing? (Chuckling) Similarly, interpretation is required when things are not understood clearly. If everybody can understand this box is a fountain pen box, where is the necessity of interpretation? This is the first thing. So Bhagavad-gītā is so clear. It is just like sunlight. Sunlight does not require any other lamp.
Prabhupāda: His mantra is not public.
George Harrison: Not out loud. No.
John Lennon: No. It's a secret. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: There is a version by Rāmānujācārya. Rāmānujācārya, he was a great ācārya of this Vaiṣṇava sampradāya. His spiritual master gave him mantra: "My dear boy, you chant this mantra silently. Nobody can hear. It is very..." So then he asked, "What is the effect of this mantra?" He said, "By chanting this mantra, by meditation, you'll get liberation." So he immediately went out and in a public, big meeting he said that "You chant this mantra. You'll be all liberated." (laughter) So he came back to his spiritual master, and his spiritual master was very angry that "I told you that you should chant silently." He said, "Yes, I have committed offense.
John Lennon: I found that the best thing for myself is to take a little bit from here and a little bit from there and a little bit from there. (Prabhupāda chuckles)
Yoko Ono: I mean, we're not just saying that. We want to ask your advice on that. In other words, what is your answer to that. Your saying there's five hundred versions.
Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā is seven hundred verses.
Yoko Ono: All right, so seven hundred. I don't know. But what I mean is you use the word authority, saying why would he translate that into English without authority? Now, what is the authority and who has the authority?
Prabhupāda: Authority is the original text.
Yoko Ono: Yes, but everybody's translating from the original text, I'm sure you know.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Then you see what Kṛṣṇa says. That is authority. Why should you hear anyone else? Now, what Kṛṣṇa has said, to understand that, that you have to search out if you are serious student.
John Lennon: How do we know if somebody else, Yogananda, Maharsi, and all these different people that have translated it, how are we to tell that their version isn't Kṛṣṇa's word from your version?
Prabhupāda: Therefore I say if you are serious student, then you study Sanskrit, original.
John Lennon: Study Sanskrit? Oh, now you're talking.
George Harrison: But Vivekananda said that books and rituals and dogmas and temples are secondary details, anyway. He said they're not the most important thing, anyway. You don't have to read the book in order to have the perception.
Prabhupāda: No, no. I mean to say, even there are other sects, as you say, Maharsi. They accept also indirectly Kṛṣṇa as the supreme authority. Because if we say Maharsi belongs to Śaṅkara sampradāya...
George Harrison: Yeah, but we had a misunderstanding before about the translation of the Sanskrit Gītā into English, and I was saying that there's many versions, and I think we thought you were trying to say that your version, your translation, was the only authority and that the other translations... But we didn't really have understanding as to the identity of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. If you believe Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord, if that is your version, then you have to see who are much addicted to Kṛṣṇa directly. For argument's sake. That these people are twenty-four hours chanting Kṛṣṇa, and another person who has no, not a single word Kṛṣṇa, how he can become devotee of Kṛṣṇa? How he can become representative of Kṛṣṇa, who does not utter even the name of Kṛṣṇa? If Kṛṣṇa is authority accepted, therefore who are directly addicted to Kṛṣṇa, they are authorities. (Kīrtanas follow, George Harrison leading) (end)
Prabhupāda: So whatever is lacking, you ask me. I will supply you.
Hayagrīva: Well, I have nothing lacking. But I would like to see that version.
Jayadvaita: That's with a dictaphone. So it's...
Hayagrīva: I would like to see that in going over mine. I'll have to go over it chapter by chapter. But I will compare the version I have with that version, and... I know the translations themselves, they were somewhat changed in Bhagavad-gītā As It Is as it came out in Macmillan. Did you like those translations?
Prabhupāda: Whichever is better, you think. That's all. You can follow this Macmillan.
Hayagrīva: That was the second... They're good. I think they're very good.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So they are not interested in many gods, Durga, Kali, or Śiva, or... (Hindi) Strictly, if you take the version of Bhagavad-gītā, why Bhagavān says that "You give up all religion. Simply you take to the shelter of My feet?" That means to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet is the only religion. (Hindi) Practically that was against Hindu conception. (Hindi) We are not talking of God, (Hindi) we are talking of love. Why you misunderstand? Don't misunderstand the philosophy. We are teaching love of Godhead. It is not we are teaching that you become afraid of God. (break) (Hindi) Bahut easy process hai. You come, sing, dance, and take prasādam. Is there any difficulty? If people come to us, in melodious songs they sing and they dance and when they are tired they take sumptuously prasādam, so what can be the more convenient way? (Hindi) You are a qualified lawyer, but you cannot do for want of money. (Hindi) He has no right because he does not know what is name.
Prabhupāda: So there we are already engaged. Cannot go Surat immediately. Let us follow that.
Haṁsadūta: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is his version. Version. There is no cost. Simply (indistinct).
Haṁsadūta: So what is the program there?
Prabhupāda: Never mind. "Due to heavy engagement, cannot go Surat immediately. Letter follows."
Devotee (2): Motorcycle...(indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Are you sure, that motorcycle? Can? To go and come back here for attending meeting here? By train? How far it is?
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Now, the difficulty is don't try to invent something about God. That is not good.
Guest (1): No, not invention.
Prabhupāda: No, you have to take the version of the śāstras; then it will be possible. If you invent something, try to speculate on something, it will not be successful.
Guest (1): I'm not, you see... In the middle, I may be speculating or you see, trying to... Coming to the human aspect itself, now so many want happiness. Happiness is checked up because of...
Prabhupāda: That material coating.
Guest (1): Material things.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you are liberated, you have nothing to go anywhere because you know everything.
Guest (2): May I again submit with the honor that you have bestowed on me of having said that I am already liberated according to the version of Gītā...
Prabhupāda: If you have understood Kṛṣṇa, then you are liberated.
Guest (2): I still feel... I still feel...
Prabhupāda: Then you haven't got to seek knowledge.
Guest (2): I still feel that...
Prabhupāda: You be satisfied with yourself. You are liberated.
Prabhupāda: Aparāṇi. Navāṇī vaśtrāni aparāṇi, gṛhṇāty aparāṇi.
Guest: Yes. According to that version, one, if the soul was there, soul was there before birth, and after death, soul is there, and again the soul is coming in a new shape. So the soul is going on always, changing one body to another body, then how the soul is liberated? How it will be...
Prabhupāda: Liberated means at the present moment under this material, in this material world, he is accepting material body, and when he is bona fide servant of Kṛṣṇa, he'll be offered a spiritual body. Just like a soldier. A person, so long he's not a soldier, he does not, he is not awarded the uniform. But as soon as he accepts the service as a soldier, immediately he is given the uniform.
Haṁsadūta: And another thing I wanted to ask you about, Prabhupāda, is that Maṇḍalībhadra, he wants to make your literature perfect, which is natural because we want to make the nicest presentation. But the devotees are saying that the translation... For instance, this Easy Journey to Other Planets, has been in the process so long, it has so many times been reworked, that it's no longer palatable to them. They don't even read it. They'd rather have the English version. So I know that Your Divine Grace has said you have full faith in his ability to do the work...
Prabhupāda: No, no. If you... you find out somebody else. He can also do.
Haṁsadūta: Because my opinion is that he's becoming overworked, it's becoming strained, so much so that we're not even able to bring it to the printer because he insists on making every time more and more corrections.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Our knowledge is perfect. You cannot say... If I say that "Heat is energy of Kṛṣṇa," you cannot defy it. Because it is not your energy. Just like in your body there is some certain extent of heat. Similarly... Heat is somebody's body's energy. And who is that body? That is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, it is My energy." So my knowledge is perfect. Therefore I am the greatest scientist. Because I take the version of the greatest scientist, therefore I am greatest scientist. I may be fool personally, but because I take the knowledge from the greatest scientist, I am greatest scientist. I have no difficulty.
Bob: Excuse me?
Prabhupāda: I have no difficulty to become the greatest scientist. Because I take the knowledge from the greatest scientist. (pause) (break) "This earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and ego—they are My eight separated energies."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Go back to home, back to Godhead. That is real goal of life. Just like the water coming from the sea as cloud falls down as rain and the actual goal is to flow down the river and again go to the sea. So we have come from God. Now we are embarrassed in this material life. Therefore the aim should be how to get out of this embarrassment and go back to home, back to Godhead. This is real goal of life.
- mām upetya tu kaunteya
- duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam
- nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ
- saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ
- (BG 8.15)
That is the version of Bhagavad-gītā. "If anyone comes back to Me," mām upetya kaunteya... Mām upetya tu kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam, nāpnuvanti, "he does not come back again." Where? In this place, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). This place is the abode of miseries. Everyone knows, but he has become fooled, befooled by so-called leaders. This is miserable life, material life. So duḥkhālayam... Kṛṣṇa says, God says, that this place is duḥkhālayam, it is a place of miseries. And that also aśāśvatam. You cannot make a compromise, "All right, let it be miserable. I shall remain as American or Indian." No.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because they have no clear idea. They cannot push forward their concept. Just like the other day (indistinct) lady, she asked if Kṛṣṇa was a naughty boy. Yes, because He is God He must be naughty boy. Otherwise, wherefrom this idea of naughty boy comes if that quality is not in God? God is the origin of everything, creator of everything. So if He hasn't got this naughtiness in His person, then how this thing comes to be? That is the Vedānta version, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The Supreme Absolute Truth is that from which or from whom everything emanates. So wherefrom this naughtiness comes if it is not in the person of God? Wherefrom this stealing propensity comes if it is not in God? But because He is absolute, His stealing is also as good as his blessing. Mākhan-cora. Kṛṣṇa is stealing butter, that is worshiped, mākhana, by the very name. Just like in another temple, Kṣīra-cora-gopīnātha.
Prabhupāda: So ask them to keep my one cloth out; otherwise I may require in this at least one sweater, one wrapper.
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So is that our version about Christianity is all right?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Wonderful, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Huh, where is Christian? Simply by saying that "I am Christian..."
Ātreya Ṛṣi: There is no Christian.
Prabhupāda: There is no Christian. Otherwise there is no difference between Christianity and our philosophy. They're Christian; we're Krishnian. And Christ comes from the word Kṛṣṭa. So if they actually follow the commandments given by Lord Jesus Christ, the world will change, immediately.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Gītā Press has got different versions also.
Guest (2): (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Gītā Press also tried to preach Gītā since forty, forty years. But Bhagavad-gītā was, published by Gītā Press, was not in the Western countries. And we published this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is in 1968. It is now all over the world. And the Macmillan Company, the biggest publisher of the world, they are taking interest. Not only this book. For this book they are taking gradually all our books. So our point is: present Kṛṣṇa as it is. That is real Indian culture. Don't present Kṛṣṇa adulterated. Your country will be glorified. The whole world will accept that India has got something to give. You are simply now beggar. So I have come to this country not to beg, but to give. That is my mission. And they are feeling, "Yes, we are getting something substantial."
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Therefore it is deviated. The Bhagavad-gītā, the Chapter, Fourth Chapter explains that you cannot understand Bhagavad-gītā by your own interpretation. You must follow the instruction of the original speaker of Bhagavad-gītā. The original speaker is Kṛṣṇa. So what Kṛṣṇa says, they have to follow it. Then it is Bhagavad-gītā. Otherwise if you interpret it in a different way then it is not Bhagavad-gītā. Now, what Kṛṣṇa says we have to understand it philosophically, ethically, scientifically, any way, any angle of vision. That is, that you can do. But you cannot change the version of Bhagavad-gītā. You cannot change. Just like Dr. Rādhākrishnan, in the Ninth Chapter when Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Dr. Rādhākrishnan says "It is not to the Kṛṣṇa person." But Kṛṣṇa person says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, "You just always think of Me." And he's deviating his readers, "Not to Kṛṣṇa." How much harm he's doing. This is going on.
Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa's instruction is there. It is open to everyone. It is not only open to us. Everyone. Bhagavad-gītā. It is widely-read literature in the world. But unfortunately, they have been misinterpreted.
David Lawrence: It was very interesting to read one of the very western versions, that of Professor Zeiner of Oxford. And on one or two points of contention between yourself and other translators of the Bhagavad-gītā, in fact, he, nearly always, went with you. Now, he's reckoned to be one of the foremost western Sanskrit scholars. And he every time emphasized the devotional tone of your translation. Nearly every time. I was very impressed by that.
Śyāmasundara: We talked with Professor Zeiner (Zayner?), and he may come. He's trying... He's going to see...
Professor: Oh? Yes.
Prabhupāda: Give him some prasādam.
Yogeśvara: In France, I believe, the only version of Bhagavad-gītā that people know is Aurobindo's translation.
Professor: No, there are many others.
Yogeśvara: Many?
Professor: There are many others.
Prabhupāda: English?
Professor: No, no. In French.
Prabhupāda: Howler? Yes. So, there is little logic there, as a human being can understand. That's all. And if we accept this theory, that logic, our logic is imperfect, we cannot understand, then we have to accept authority. Just like a child. Mother says, "Here is your father." There is no logic. There is no logic. He has to accept. Only the mother version is logic, That's all. Authority. Is it not?
Guest (1): Yes, that's true.
Prabhupāda: Then where there is no logic, the authority must be accepted. Therefore we accept that authority. Śabda-pramāṇa. The best evidence. Śabda-pramāṇa. There are different evidences. Out of that, veda-pramāṇa, śabda-pramāṇa is first class. All right, thank you very much. Jaya.
Prabhupāda: No, I'm talking of...
Ambassador: To me, Gītā means Gandhi's Gītā which said in a very distorted, very limited version...
Prabhupāda: Gandhi did not know anything about Bhagavad-gītā.
Ambassador: (laughs) I understand him best.
Prabhupāda: Well, you... Gandhi may give his opinion, but why he should give through Bhagavad-gītā?
Ambassador: I know. Anāsakta-yoga is really...
Prabhupāda: Yes. He's associating with Kṛṣṇa. And unless one is confidential devotee of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa does not speak with him. But when he becomes perfect, confidential servitor, Kṛṣṇa speaks with him, "Do like this, do like that," and he'll do that. And therefore in his action, you won't find any fault. (break) If somebody perfect instructs him, "Do like this," then my action is not imperfect. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). If I say, "Yes, you give up everything. Just surrender to Kṛṣṇa," then I am perfect. And if I say, "So 'ham. I am Kṛṣṇa," then you are imperfect. Is that...? (break) "...the same. I am the Lord. I am the Supreme." They're all imperfect. Vimukta-māninaḥ. They have been described as rascals. They are strongly thinking that they are liberated. They're rascals. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ (SB 10.2.32). They are talking like nonsense because their intelligence is not..., it is purified. He's therefore wrongly thinking that "I am the Supreme Lord. I am moving the sun." These rascals, they meditate, "I am moving the sun, I am moving the moon. I am this, I am that." This is their meditation. So 'ham. So they are rascals. And how you can become the Supreme? As soon as you have got a toothache, you have to go to the doctor. And he was thinking he was supreme, nonsense. Rascal. (break) ...bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa. These are Māyāvādīs, those who are after, "I am the Supreme." They are Māyāvādīs. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "Anyone who hears the philosophy of Māyāvāda, he is doomed. He is gone." (break) ...teaching, "Why you are seeking after God?" Just like Vivekananda taught, "Oh, why you are seeking after God? Don't you see so many gods are on the street? They are hungry. They are lame. They are daridra-nārāyaṇa. Why don't you worship them?" This is Māyāvādī. So if we take Vivekananda's version, and be engaged in the service of the daridra-nārāyaṇa, then I am misled. (break) ...preaching this daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā for hundreds of years, at least one hundred years, but still, there are daridras. Even in the city like Bombay, still. Fifty years ago, I came. I saw there are the residents of the footpath, having a small... Eh?
Karandhara: They'd say there is no perfect source.
Prabhupāda: Because you are not... You're cheater, you're cheater, you are cheated, therefore that is your version.
Karandhara: We are imperfect. How do we know what a perfect source is?
Prabhupāda: No, I do not know. Therefore it is said, tad-vijñānārthaṁ gurum evābhigacchet. You must know from the person who knows.
Karandhara: He's also imperfect.
Prabhupāda: Ah? Well his perfection is proved there is satisfaction. The so-called scientists, philosophers, politicians, they could not bring peace in the world. That is their fools.
Prabhupāda: That, that we accept, that ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ: (Brs. 1.2.234) We cannot speculate about God with our imperfect senses. But that does not mean we should not know god. We cannot speculate, but there is process of knowing God. That is from God. When He says, "I am like this," that's all. You have to accept that. You cannot speculate. You cannot create. Just like a big man, a big master, nobody knows how many millions of dollars he has got. They are speculating. His servants are speculating, "Master may have so many millions. Master may have so many..." But that is all imperfect. When the master says, "I have got so much, so many millions," that is perfect. All other speculation, they're all imperfect. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are not speculating. We are accepting God the authority, and He's speaking about Himself. We are accepting. That is our position. Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "There is no more superior authority than Me." We accept it. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ: "You always think of Me. Become my devotee." We become... This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are imperfect, but we accept the perfect. Therefore we are perfect. We are imperfect. We don't say that we are God, or perfect. We are imperfect. But we accept the perfect version of the perfect. Therefore we are perfect.
Prabhupāda: Then he has to accept something else. He has to accept something. He may accept Bible. They may not accept Bhagavad-gītā. They must accept Bible. But you have to, then you have to lead your life according to the version of the Bible. The version of the Bible is that "Thou shalt not kill." You are killing. Therefore you are not, not followers of Bible. You are rascal.
Karandhara: Well, their process is to discredit all scriptures so that they don't have to follow anything.
Prabhupāda: Then you are discredited. Who follows your version? If you discredit others' version, who follows your version? Who are you? If you don't accept other authority, and who is going to accept your authority? Why shall I? You cannot become authority, that "I don't accept any authority." I have to follow that? Then you become authority.
Prabhupāda: But he has got so many difficulties because he's diseased rascal. So he has to be treated. But his only fault is that he doesn't want to be treated. He's a diseased person, but he doesn't want to be treated. When he's treated, he'll understand. But he doesn't agree to be treated. That is his fault. A tuberculous patient, he doesn't want to be treated, but if he's treated, he can be brought into healthy state. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is treating all these rascals and fools because all of them are born rascals. This is our judgement. Not... śāstra's judgement. Abodha-jāta. Jāta means born. Born rascals. Everyone is a born rascal unless he's Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is our... Our propaganda should be like that. We can call anyone rascal and fool if he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious. So what is the value of rascals and fools? He may say something. He may say something. Just like a madman. He may speak so many things. But who values his word? Everyone knows that he... A child, he speaks so many things. Who cares for it? Similarly we must know, anyone who's not Kṛṣṇa, he's a madman. He's empowered by this illusory energy. He talks all nonsense. So ours should be that "If you want to understand, then you come to this position. Then you'll understand. You must be educated." Your belief and not belief or acceptance, who cares for them? Now, this sky is there. Everyone has seen. The experienced man says, "Now, this side is sun." And if somebody says, "Why not this side?" So who cares for this version? You rascal, you may say like that, but it is a fact, this side is sun. One who knows, he can say. One who does not know, he'll argue, "Why not this side?
Prabhupāda: The purpose is meaningless then. Then your purpose is meaningless.
Karandhara: Yes, they say ultimately everything is meaningless.
Prabhupāda: Then you are a rascal. You are working for meaningless things. Then you are a rascal. That's all. And that is my version, that you are a rascal number one.
Karandhara: Well, they say everyone can introduce their own meaning to whatever they want.
Prabhupāda: No, then why do you try to get many followers? Let them do their own work.
Karandhara: No, to proliferate your own meaning.
Prabhupāda: They are rascals. They will say anything. (laughter) But this is the fact. When a madman speaks, he speaks all nonsense. But we are not madmen. We cannot accept their version. What they will say?
Prajāpati: Even in a group of chickens, there is one who is the...
Prabhupāda: Mother chicken.
Prajāpati: The head chicken. Or monkeys. There is also what's called pecking order. One is at the top, and then there's one at the end who gets the least, and all these gradations in-between. In any group there is always like that. So they say simply the reason we have government with one man head is because that's the natural pecking order like chickens.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Caitanya-caritāmṛta. That is the beginning of spiritual consciousness, faith.
- śraddhā-śabde—viśvāsa kahe sudṛḍha niścaya
- kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya
- (Cc. Madhya 22.62)
This is the version of Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Śraddhā means firm faith. Śraddhā-śabde viśvāsa kahe sudṛḍha niścaya. Firm faith. And firm faith is trust. "I trust you," means I have got firm faith in you. Is it not? So trust means firm faith. Firm faith means... Now that "So long God is my order supplier, I trust in Him, and as soon as He refuses to supply my order, I don't trust Him," that is not firm faith. "God is putting me in distress; still, I trust Him. Or God is putting me in happiness; still, I trust Him." That is called firm faith. In any circumstances, the faith is not withdrawn. That is firm faith.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (1): Many religious institutions, they welcome the rich peoples. Those who are coming by cars, and those who are coming gorgeously, and they are donating much to the institutions, they are welcomed by the people, management of these institutions. And this is your version. It is just contradictory. I accept your version. It is quite, quite right. And I hope our institution must do not like that. This ISKCON must not do like that. The well-to-do peoples who come, they'll get more... (break) ...more receptions, more congratulations. I request it must be your direction that our institution ISKCON must not do like this. And it is your... (laughter)
Prabhupāda: But one, one thing is that we are not living like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He was ideal sannyāsī, and He was living apart from any material attachment. But we have to do preaching work. We have to construct temple, comfortable temple. So who will pay for that?
Guest (1): Then your version...
Prabhupāda: Therefore we have to sometimes do that. Just like that woman, that chaste woman. She served a prostitute...
Guest (1): To make them correct.
Prabhupāda: No. Serve prostitute for serving her husband. That is a big story.
Guest (2): Big story, yes.
Prabhupāda: Lakṣa-hīra.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa knows. He has imitated Kṛṣṇa's plan. Kṛṣṇa has made so many birds. So you cannot make any other size. That is the version of the Vedānta. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The original idea is from Kṛṣṇa. You simply, you can imitate. That's all. Just like there are so many imitation birds. Similarly, everything is imitation. Everything is imitation.
Dr. Patel: Yes. In Śrīmad-Bhāgavata you get so many stories wherein all of devas and kinnaras, they come in their own planes and stand there with the planes. How could they stand with their planes down there?
Prabhupāda: That is much improved. This is not so much improved.
Mr. Sar: No, no, no, no. That's...
Prabhupāda: No, that's... (break) ...(the version) of the cats and dogs, not of Kṛṣṇa. That is the... This is the version of the cats and dogs. Kṛṣṇa says, nahaṁ tesu.
Dr. Patel: Nahaṁ teṣu te mayi. "They are in Me. Not I am in them."
Mr. Sar: Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvair ebhiḥ sarvam..., mohitaṁ nābhijānāti...
Prabhupāda: Ah! Mohitaṁ, bewildered by the three modes of nature, they cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: ...was a fool. But if we follow Kṛṣṇa, then even though I am fool, I am right. Just like this child, he's a fool. But if the father says, "My dear child, this is called stick." And when she says, "This is stick," this is right. He may be fool, but the version which is given, that is right. So I may be fool, you may be fool. That's all right. If you carry Kṛṣṇa's message, then you are right. (break) We are fool. How I have come to this material...? Yes.
Mr. Sar: You are not part of the... Unless you are in the realm of māyā, you cannot be born as a human being.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. (break) ...samutthena sarge yānti...
Mr. Sar: Born in the māyā.
Prabhupāda: You see, Madhva... (break) They are supplementary to the Vedas.
Dr. Patel: These are the agamas and nigamas.
Prabhupāda: This is the Māyāvādī's version. They do not accept the Purāṇas. This is Māyāvādī version. But our paramparā system, Madhvācārya, he has accepted Purāṇas, Rāmāyaṇa, Mahābhārata, as Vedic literature. So we have to follow the ācārya. Ācāryavān puruṣo... Yes. Not only Madhvācārya, all, all other ācāryas.
Indian man (2): Ācārya, ṛṣis, they have got all different...
Dr. Patel: But those people are following Śaṅkarācārya...
Prabhupāda: Yes, but Śaṅkarācārya accepted Bhagavad-gītā. Then... He commented, and he accepted Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: You just explain that.
Indian man (4): (Hindi) (break)
Prabhupāda: As soon as he said that, he was killed immediately. That is the atheistic version. "I don't care for God," So as soon as he became atheistic, he was killed, and so long he was chanting, "Rāma will kill me, Rāma will kill me," so he was not killed.
Indian man (4): He was a bhakta at that time according to the... (break)
Prabhupāda: He was chanting the holy name of Rāma.
Indian man (4): He was chanting Rāma, Rāma, Rāma.
Prabhupāda: No, no, if there is doubt, if there is doubt, why shall I accept a person who is doubtful? Why not accept a person who is without doubt? Kṛṣṇa is accepted the Supreme Personality of Godhead by all ācāryas. All ācāryas. So why not accept Kṛṣṇa? Why imitation Kṛṣṇa? This Kṛṣṇa, that Kṛṣṇa, dini-Kṛṣṇa. That is our protest. You accept Kṛṣṇa and be led by Him. The path is clear. (break) ...simply advertising that "You are searching after some leader. Take this leader, Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. "We have taken. You also take." We don't say anybody else, no. We are fools. We do not know if there is anybody. So we are fools. Let us remain like a fool like that and follow Kṛṣṇa. That's all. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We don't say that "I have got eyes, I have got full knowledge." No, we don't say that. Kṛṣṇa says. That's all. This is our version. We request that "You take Kṛṣṇa. You will be benefited." And actually it is being done. We don't present a false person. We present the real person, Kṛṣṇa. Now, if you are misfortunate, you cannot take, that is your business. That is your business.
Prabhupāda: If you want to be happy, then you must take to the superior type of religious system which teaches the followers how to love God without any motive, and which is never checked by any material condition. God's name is given here as Adhokṣaja. Adhokṣaja means beyond experimental knowledge. God has got many name according to different situation, and one of the name, for the materialistic person, adhokṣaja. Akṣaja means experimental knowledge. Akṣa means eyes or senses. Beyond sense perception. So we cannot speculate about God, but we can understand about God from authorities. This is the conception of Bhāgavata-dharma. So the human life is especially meant for understanding God. That is the version of the Vedānta-sūtra, Vedānta philosophy. The Vedānta philosophy teaches, athāto brahma jijñāsā, "Now this human form of body, which is above the lower grades of forms..." There are 8,400,000 forms of body. The soul is transmigrating, evolution. But when we get this human form of body, our main business is to inquire about God. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Now, if somebody inquires what is God, the immediate reply is, God is the source, original source of everything. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). So the human form of life is meant for understanding God, and according to our philosophy, if human body is not utilized for understanding God, then it is misused.
Cardinal Pignedoli: Yes, I have. Thank you.
Bhagavān: There are many copies of Bhagavad-gītā, but the unusual happening with this version is until this was presented, there was no devotee...
Prabhupāda: Professor Dimock has said very nicely.
Monsignor Verrozano: Yes, we have also many translations. Yes.
Prabhupāda: You have not brought by the fruit?
Nitāi: Yes, Satsvarūpa Mahārāja did.
Monsignor Verrozano: We have here one translation of the commentary of Professor Zehner(?) from Oxford.
Prabhupāda: Here is my foreword by Professor Dimock.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our study. So the living energy, the spirit soul, it has got a formation, formation, form. That is also stated in the śāstra, that 1/10,000th part of the top of the hair. Hair, the point, hair. (Yogeśvara translates in French) 1/10,000 part of the... The exact version is keśāgra. Keśa means hair, and agra means the top. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya (CC Madhya 19.140). So that point, you divide into hundred, and take again one part of it, and again divide into hundred. That means you divide the top of the hair into ten thousand parts and then that one part is the magnitude of the soul, spiritual energy. That spiritual energy is within you, within me, within the ant, or within the elephant. So we are living entities. And the body is inferior energy, at the present moment. In the material world the body is covering. Just like you are covered by the coat.
Priest: Ah, you have to go beyond.
Prabhupāda: As soon as you... Just like you learn who is your father. You take the version of your mother and you believe that "He is my father." Otherwise there is no other way. How can you know your father? The only means is his mother recommends, "My dear boy, he is your father." And that is perfect, that's all. Otherwise you cannot know who is your father.
Priest: Yeah, but you know...
Prabhupāda: If you say, "Mother, I don't believe it," you don't believe it, but you cannot know.
Priest: The trouble, you know, is that so many people are coming either in India or (inaudible)...
Prabhupāda: No, no, I mean to say...
Pater Emmanuel: Yes, Christ, Kriza (?), Kristos, who is Christ by oil. Anointed. Christos, Christ, means anointed. It's the same word. It's the same form. Christo and Kristos in Greek is the same word, anointed.
Prabhupāda: Oh, I see. So this Christo is the broken version of Kṛṣṇa.
Pater Emmanuel: Ah, yes, I see. Very good, very interesting.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because in India still, when calling for Kṛṣṇa, one says Kṛṣṭa. And Kṛṣṭa means the attractor, the Sanskrit meaning, attractor, one who draws, draws everyone nearer. That is the meaning of Kṛṣṇa. And that all-attractive drawer is God.
Pater Emmanuel: Yes, I think so too.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes this is bhakti-yoga. Yes, bhakti-yoga. Bhakti-yogena manasi. Bhakti-yogena manasi (SB 1.7.4). There is a verse in Bhāgavata. Real yoga means bhakti-yoga.
- yoginām api sarveṣāṁ
- mad-gatenāntarātmanā
- śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ
- sa me yuktatamo mataḥ
- (BG 6.47)
Of all the yogis... There are different kinds of yogis. We receive this authorized version, that yoginām api sarveṣāṁ. Of all the yogis, the first-class yogi is he who is thinking of Kṛṣṇa always within the heart. Mad-gata antarātmanā, antarātmanā śraddhāvān bhajate. That is our process. We are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, so we're thinking of Kṛṣṇa. This is the first-class yoga system. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). In the Vedic... Yes. Dhyāna, meditation, means thinking of the Supreme. And that is real yoga, not this gymnastic. That is physical.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that does not require a great scientist. Anything in this material world which has got a beginning, it has got end. We can experience from our body. The body has got a beginning; therefore it must have an end. Anything which has beginning, there must be end. This is our experience. You take anything material. This tree, it has got a beginning; it has got end.
Vīrabāhu: But because it didn't suit to his theories he said that...
Prabhupāda: No, no, that means they are rascals. That means they are rascals. They are simply mental speculators. They have no value of their knowledge. We should take them like that, that "These are all rascals." They may be very big man in the estimation of other rascals, but we are not such rascals. We are not going to take their version. (end)
Prabhupāda: That is his interpretation. Tviṣā, tviṣā akṛṣṇam. And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, idānīṁ kṛṣṇatāṁ gataḥ, śuklo raktas tathā pitaḥ idānīṁ kṛṣṇatāṁ gataḥ. So God has other colors also. White and red and yellow. So here is yellow. Tviṣā akṛṣṇa. So we have to follow Jīva Gosvāmī. What these rascals, we have to follow? We don't follow. If you have got a interpretation, we have got better interpretation. Why shall I accept you? My mother says, "Here is your father." I shall accept that, or somebody says, "Here is your father" Whom shall I accept? Mother's version. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). We should accept the paramparā ācāryas, not whimsically anyone's interpretation you have to accept.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, it's very clear that if one does not accept Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then actually he cannot worship Kṛṣṇa properly.
Prabhupāda: That's a fact.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they do.
Prabhupāda: That means childhood age, there is no pollution, and youthhood age, Kṛṣṇa's, it was polluted by the gopīs. This is their version. Kṛṣṇa becomes polluted.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they say like that.
Prabhupāda: Do they say like that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I have spoken to them, in Hyderabad, that Bāla Kṛṣṇa dāsa. And another thing they say is that Rādhārāṇī's name is not mentioned in Bhāgavata. So this whole emphasis on Rādhā is not correct.
Acyutānanda: Is not correct.
Prabhupāda: No, no. There is the verse, kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām avyaktā-sakta-cetasām (BG 12.5). So in explaining that śloka he said, "It was painful five thousand years ago, but it is not now painful. It has become easy." That means the version of Gītā can be changed after five thousand years. Then what is the importance of speaking by Kṛṣṇa if it is changeable like material things? then what is the authority of Kṛṣṇa? Is it changeable?
Guest: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi)
Guest: It is the interpretation of the...
Prabhupāda: Why interpretation?
Prabhupāda: You say, but those who are the followers of the authorities, they do not say. You are outsider. You say it may be. It may not be, but you have no authority. You are simply taking a hypothesis, "it may be." But those who actually are following, they do not say. What about this? Whose version is more important? Your or theirs? You are outsider. You are simply suggesting because you had a bad experience. But one who has no such experience, why should he follow your advice?
Paramahaṁsa: Actually if anyone looks at Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, presented by yourself, then they can logically see that it is perfect.
Prabhupāda: Yes, we have got our argument, logic, everything. Why should we blindly follow?
Prabhupāda: So changing. So you are changing your body. That's a fact. But because you are seeing all in one spool, you are thinking, "It is growing; it is moving." That's all. But it is changing. This is the science. So body is changing. And you remember that you had such-and-such body. Therefore you are different from the body. This is the science. So unless we understand that "I am not this body. I am different from the body. I am changing bodies. Therefore I will have to change this body and accept another body..." This is the science, beginning of scientific knowledge. Without understanding this fact his advancement of knowledge is simply for eating, sleeping, sex, and defense. That's all. There is no advancement. According to Vedic literature, he remains animal. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13).
- yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke
- sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ
- yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij
- janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ
- (SB 10.84.13)
If we cannot understand ourself... It is very simple, that "I have changed my body so many times, so naturally, when this body will be useless in this life, then I will have to accept another body." This is the version of... (Aside:) You find out.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Dr. Copeland: There are other texts, other Gītās.
Amogha: Other versions of the Gītā besides Lord Caitanya's.
Prabhupāda: No, that is not authorized. Therefore we say specifically, "Bhagavad-gītā As It is," no interpretation. Here Kṛṣṇa says that man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). So we preach that thing. We preach that "You be Kṛṣṇa conscious." Man-manāḥ: "Always think of Me," Kṛṣṇa says. And we are teaching these disciples, "Always think of Kṛṣṇa." There is no difference. We don't create. And therefore it is successful. Others, they created their own concoction; it was never successful. Before me, so many swamis came to the Western countries.
Prabhupāda: No. It will not depend on opinion. Opinion... What is the value of opinion if the people are all asses? There is no opinion. One should take as it is enjoined in the śāstra. No opinion. What is the use of taking opinion of an ass? So the people are trained up just like dogs and asses, then what is the use of their opinion? If you are to enforce, you must do like this. Just like when we introduced this "No illicit sex." I never cared for their opinion. The opinion... immediately there will be discussion. And what is the use of taking their opinion? It must be done. That is the defect of Western civilization. Vox populi, taking opinion of the public. But what is the value of this public? Drunkards, smokers, meat-eaters, woman-hunters. What is the... they are not first-class men. So what is the use of such third-class, fourth-class men's opinion? We do not advocate such opinion. What Kṛṣṇa said, that is standard, that's all. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme, and His version is final.
Yogi Bhajan: All right. Then that guy, that guy has the love for his conviction. Where mutual convictions can meet and still create a harmony... My honest opinion is that it is the time. World has become small. Kṛṣṇa consciousness has spread. Message of Guru Nanak has spread. Message of Lord Rāma has spread. Message of Jesus has spread. Message of Moses has spread. All right. Now the spread is going to interact. And in that, somebody with this style can come in and can represent right. You will be my personal guest and you will be in a position... We will do whatever personally we can do for that whole situation. But it will be a good idea to talk to all these people, to make them understand, and from when your mouth the person will understand why Hare Kṛṣṇa person goes on the street and chant... They have got fundamental things to say. They do not know. They have different versions to hear, they have versions to talk.
Prabhupāda: No, it is... We are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. That, find out the... Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām (BG 9.14).
Prabhupāda: No, it is... We are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. That, find out the... Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām (BG 9.14).
Yogi Bhajan: Kali-yuga mem kīrtana pradhana. Now Śrī Guru Grantha says, Guru Nanak writes himself, correct versions are many, but my idea is: it is good to hear from you.
Prabhupāda: That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Yogi Bhajan: I know.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is another thing. Just like if you get millions of dollars, ten dollars is already there. You haven't got to endeavor for ten dollars. Similarly, if one who is on the platform of soul... Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3). If you understand the platform of soul, then you understand the other platforms: the intellectual platform, mental platform, bodily platform. And platform of knowledge, pratyakṣa, parakṣa, aparakṣa, adhokṣaja, aprakṛta. So aprakṛta is this platform of the soul. Kṛṣṇa's activities, that is aprakṛta, completely far beyond these material ideas, material platform. Material platform, pratyakṣa. Just like you want to see the arrangement. That is pratyakṣa. Then aparakṣa, accepting the authority's version. Pratyakṣa, parakṣa. Then aparakṣa, then adhokṣaja, beyond your mental speculation. Then aprakṛta, spiritual. Spiritual platform is not understood by machine, material machine. Then what is the spiritual platform? Kṛṣṇa is understood not by machine. Kṛṣṇa says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti: (BG 18.55) "Through devotion only." So devotion is not machine. That is spiritual activity.
Prabhupāda: Now big, big scholars, they have taken the trouble to write on Bhagavad-gītā. But nobody has taken the trouble to write on other scriptures like Bible or Koran. Nobody has taken. No scholar, no philosopher have tried to comment or study because they know it is not very important. Here is important. This is the proof, wisest. And that is only ABCD of God's knowledge. So people should take advantage. It is accepted indirectly. There are so many editions of Bhagavad-gītā, in your country, English. Why they take trouble to read Bhagavad-gītā so carefully? Big, big scholars, philosophers, why? (break) It is the impersonal, cloth. So Śaṅkarācārya has tried to impress this fact, but the rascals followed in a different way. Just like a cloth, big cloth, that is impersonal. Now, you cut it into coat. It becomes like person. So similarly this whole material world is impersonal, but because we have taken a certain portion of it and make my body, it looks like person. And God is not like that. He is spiritual person. He has nothing to do with material. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). What Śaṅkarācārya impressed, that they are after demigods, so "The demigods, they are not actual person. Real person is Nārāyaṇa." That is Śaṅkarācārya's version.
Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...Dakṣa accused Nārada that "My sons were not out of the three kinds of debts." One debt is debtor to the saintly sages. Just like we are reading Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, we are indebted to Vyāsadeva. He has given such literature, and we are taking advantage of it. As such, especially the brāhmaṇas, they have got indebtedness to big sages and saintly person. They receive knowledge from them. And they are indebtor to the demigods. Therefore they have to perform yajñas. And they are indebtor to their father because the father has brought them to this world. So in this way, especially a brāhmaṇa is indebted to demigods, the past sages, and the father. So the indebtedness to the sages is performed by becoming brahmacārī, and to the demigods by offering sacrifices, and to the father by begetting children, to continue the progeny. So Nārada Muni was accused that "You keep them indebted to these principles, so how they can be liberated? Simply by dressing like you, (laughs) a mendicant?" Accusing. But perhaps he did not know. There is another version in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam,
Prabhupāda: We don't say anything which is not spoken by God in the Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore it is appealing everywhere. Although it is in Sanskrit language, still, it is appealing. Just like if you go on the street and the signboard is, "Keep to the right," this is law. I cannot say, "What is the wrong if I keep to the left?" Then I am criminal. You cannot dictate. The government has said, "Keep to the right." You have to do that, that is law. If you violate, then you are criminal. Pay fine. But ordinarily, one may think, "What is the wrong there, instead of keeping right, if I keep to the left?" He may think like that, but he doesn't know that is criminal.
Father: Yes. In the Bhagavad-gītā, I'm told that there are some two hundred versions of that. Is that the case?
Prabhupāda: Two hundred verses?
Jayatīrtha: Two hundred versions, different interpretations, commentaries, translations...
Father: But my question is that if that is the case...
Prabhupāda: But how can you interpret...? That I have already explained. How can you interpret the government's order, "Keep to the left," and "Keep to the right"? You have no right to interpret. If you interpret, then you become a foolish man because that interpretation will not be accepted. If you say, "What is the wrong there? Both ways there are roads. So if I keep to the left, what is wrong there?" You can interpret like that. But as soon as you interpret like that, you become a criminal. So all these interpretation are unauthorized, criminal. That they do not know because they are foolish men. You cannot interpret.
Prabhupāda: Everyone was there, but they do not know. (chuckles) The Pacific and Atlantic Ocean is mentioned in Kalidāsa Kavi's book, Kumāra-sambhava. Toya-nidhim avagahya sthitaḥ pṛthivyām iva māna-daṇḍaḥ. They are all mentioned, Pacific Ocean, Atlantic Ocean. These fools do not know anything. And they say, therefore, "First man to come," as if before him there was no man. Just see. "There was no man. There was no civilization," these rascals' version. What is that bridge? Is that bridge?
Jayatīrtha: It's a bridge that goes to one island. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...explain; therefore they bring this theory of chance. But we don't find any such chance in practical life. "There was a fool and he became high-court judge." Is there any? "There was a fool. He became a high-court judge." Is there any evidence like that? "There was ape. It became human, human being." I am simply surprised how this kind of argument is accepted by other fools.
Prabhupāda: They are atheist. They are first-class atheist, more than the Buddhist. Veda na maniya bauddha haila nāstika. The Buddhists, they did not accept Vedic authorities; therefore they are considered as nāstika. But vedāśraya nāstikya vada. These rascals, they accept Vedas and preaches atheism. So they are more dangerous than the Buddhists. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's version. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bauddha ke adhika: "They are more dangerous than the Buddhists." The Buddhists, although they are supposed to be atheists, they worship the Deity Lord Buddha. But they say it is māyā. And more advanced than these atheists.
Prabhupāda: If He is everywhere, why He is not in the temple?
Indian man (3): But not in that form.
Prabhupāda: That is your version. (laughter) That is your version.
Harikeśa: Then there is somewhere where He is not.
Indian man (3): No, no. I say... No, no, no. Somewhere... He is everywhere.
Yaśomatīnandana: He is a mūrti also.
Indian man (3): Everywhere. But He is not that mūrti. He is not that mūrti.
Prabhupāda: That is your version. But we are not so fool that we are going to see something which is not God. We are not so fool.
Prabhupāda: Even if we say "Mohammed," why not? Anyone who has preached Kṛṣṇa consciousness, maybe little differently according to time, circumstances, but anyone who has tried to preach the God consciousness, he is guru. Yei kṛṣṇa tattva vettā, sei guru haya (CC Madhya 8.128). That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's version. Anyone who preaches about the Supreme Lord, he is guru. Maybe in a different way, according to time, circumstances. The Mohammed also said Allah akbar.
Dr. Patel: Only the difference is that Mohammed is trying to worship nirañjana, nirākāra, and we...
Prabhupāda: No, no, not nirākāra. That is not...
Dr. Patel: Even Christianity considers His ākāra—"God has form."
Prabhupāda: Lord Rāmacandra worshiped His devotees. Just like sometimes Kṛṣṇa worships Rādhārāṇī and touched His feet..., Her feet. That does not mean that Kṛṣṇa... Just like Kṛṣṇa was tolerating ear pulling by Mother Yaśodā. That does not mean that Mother Yaśodā is the Supreme. Hm? Kṛṣṇa was carrying the wooden shoes of Nanda Mahārāja. So that does not mean Nanda Mahārāja is greater than Kṛṣṇa. It is Kṛṣṇa's pleasure. Just like sometimes a father takes the son on the shoulder, carries. Does it mean the father is inferior than the son? So this is third-class man's conclusion. They do not know what is Kṛṣṇa, what is Rāma. Kṛṣṇa says that aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). So He is the origin of Lord Śiva. So how Śiva can be the Supreme? We have to consult śāstra. Kṛṣṇa does not say that Śiva is Supreme. So if a third-class man says Śiva is Supreme, we have to accept it? We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Whatever Kṛṣṇa says, that is Supreme, not a third-class man's version. Is it clear? Yes. We should not take a third-class, fourth-class man's version. We should take from the śāstra.
Prabhupāda: "It is impossible. It will not be allowed, and they are trying for it. How this body can be maintained? 'Yes, we are trying. Now the disease has been reduced. Now they are living more days.' These are their foolish. They will never say, 'No, it is impossible.' Still, they will support their rascal endeavors." Modern advancement of science, what actually they have done? We are talking on that point. Simply misleading. The Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung one nice... (tape recorded section accidentally plays) "eating meat and drinking wine." (Prabhupāda and devotees laugh at interruption. Harikeśa apologizes) That... He says, jada vidy saba māyāra vaibhava. Jada vidyā means material education, the so-called material science. So jada vidyā. Vidyā means education, so this expansion of knowledge means expansion of the influence of māyā. Jada vidyā saba māyāra vaibhava. And the result is tomāra bhajane bādhā. People will forget God. With the advancement of so-called material science or material knowledge, the result will be that people will forget God. And then next, next is anitya saṁsāre moha janamiya. "This material world, which is temporary, where we cannot stay, we are already captivated, but this advancement of material knowledge will make me more captive, and I shall work just like an ass." That's all. Now, whether he is right or wrong, tell me. His charge is that advancement of material education is advancement of the influence of material energy, and if you say that "What is the wrong there?" the wrong is that we are already rascals, and this education will make me more rascal. Anitya saṁsāre moha janamiya. "I am already captivated in this temporary material world, and these things will make me more advanced to be captivated in this material world." Now this is the version of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Now, if you don't like, tell what is the reason. Tell me. Material education... We are already captive under the laws of material nature, and the more we advance in material education, we'll be more and more rigidly captive. So this is the version of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. What is your answer? Can anyone refute Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, that he is wrong?
Prabhupāda: (break) What did he speak?
Mahāṁsa: He spoke on different verses, one by one, of the twelfth chapter. But no conclusion. Every lecture there was no conclusion. So he leaves the people in a blank. There is no conclusion to any of his lectures. And his philosophy is "Kṛṣṇa means black. Black means unknown. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is unknown. Kṛṣṇa is unknown. We cannot know Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: And what about others' version who knows Kṛṣṇa? Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu or all the ācāryas? (end)
Prabhupāda: No, no. Who has written foreword to my Bhagavad-gītā?
Harikeśa: Dimmock.
Prabhupāda: Dimmock. "Here is definitive..."
Haṁsadūta: Version.
Nitai: "Definitive edition."
Prabhupāda: "Definitive edition." That is the credit. Not "may be." No "maybe," sir. That is rascaldom.
Harikeśa: In our social science we find that God is only necessary to define the unknown. Otherwise He has no purpose.
Prabhupāda: You were in Bombay?
Man: Yes, in that last room, on that other side.
Prabhupāda: ...once. Kīrtanānanda Swami has come, he reported that sometimes these European and Americans, they do not like our version, and sometimes they purchase and tear the books, hm? And still they purchase! (laughs) That is the beauty.
Dr. Patel: Europeans...
Prabhupāda: No, no. In America. Kīrtanānanda was saying. They tear these pages, and again still they purchase. This example is given. Just like hot sugarcane juice. Because it is hot, it cannot be taken. But one cannot avoid tasting it. (laughter) Sugarcane juice hot. Because we speak everything against their so-called knowledge, and still they want to taste it. Hot sugarcane juice.
Prabhupāda:
- sādhu saṇga sādhu saṅga sarva-śāstra kaya
- lava mātra sādhu saṅga sarva siddhi haya
- This is the version of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Dr. Patel: And when you read Bhāgavata you also get the sat-saṅga, because the, all the histories of so many saints...
Prabhupāda: Yes, Cānakya Paṇḍita also advised: kalau durajana samsagyam bhaja sādhu samārgama(?). This is..., he was a politician, and still he said, kalau durajana samsagyam bhaja sādhu samārgama, and smara nityam anityada kuru punyam avoratram. This is his advise, that give up this bad association of atheist class of man. Sadhu means devotee. Durajana means nondevotee. So kalau durajana samsagyam bhaja sādhu samārgama. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says like that. When He was asked by one gṛhastha bhakta, "What is the duty of a Vaiṣṇava?" Caitanya Mahāprabhu immediately said, asat-saṅga tyāgī ei vaiṣṇava acāra. A Vaiṣṇava means he must give up the association of nondevotees. Then the question will be, "Who is nondevotee?" Asat-strī-saṅgī kṛṣṇa bhakta... One who is too much attached to material enjoyment. Strī-saṅgī is the basic point, and one who is not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he is asat-saṅga. Asat-saṅga-tyāgī..., there are two lines. And the moralist, Cānakya Paṇḍita, he also said, kalau durajana samsagyam bhaja sādhu samārgama. You give up something, you must take something. Otherwise you will not be able to stay.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Bhavānanda: You are giving one version of Bhagavad-gītā, but there are so many versions of Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Bhavānanda: You are giving one version of Bhagavad-gītā, but there are so many versions.
Prabhupāda: If you can learn one, then your life will be successful for many thousand years. Hm? Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. You simply understand one verse of Bhagavad-gītā; then you understand everything. This is the meaning. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: That is the world. Therefore the whole world is the society of cheater and cheated. That is the version of my Guru Mahārāja. The whole so-called human society means a bunch of cheaters and cheated. That's all.
Pañca-draviḍa: Īśopaniṣad says, asuryā nāma te lokāḥ. He is going to hell even though he knows that he is cheating. He is also going to hell even if he is consciously cheating.
Prabhupāda: So don't be cheater; don't be cheated. That is intelligence.
Pañca-draviḍa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what is our fortune that we've come in contact with a qualified guru? What have we done to qualify to come in contact with you?
Revatīnandana: In other words, why do some come and others not come?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Hari-śauri: That man in Delhi thought we had something against Lord Rāmacandra.
Prabhupāda: There are many versions like that. Somebody will say, "Your Rāmacandra may be very important person, but when Rādhārāṇī goes to Kṛṣṇa, Lord Rāmacandra becomes His (Her) guard with arrows..." (laughter) When Rādhārāṇī goes to Kṛṣṇa, and Rāmacandra has to serve Rādhārāṇī with arrows and bows. (pause) This is gorur.(?)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What is that six-pointed star significance?
Prabhupāda: Cakra.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "How you can make suicide? You have already dedicated your body to Me. You have no right." This was the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's.... You cannot neglect it. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's version. When one comes to this understanding, that "Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, everything has emanated from Kṛṣṇa," ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8), "and everything can be used for Kṛṣṇa," then real understanding-sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. That is wanted. (break) ...1:15. Fifteen minutes late.
Dr. Patel: Brāhma-muhūrta... (Hindi) I take my bath at three o'clock, so it is all right for me. I'm never falling in all these ways. (break)
Prabhupāda: Some lady inquired, "Is there any instruction about the power shortage?" "Oh, yes." (laughs) So she purchased, and the next day she said, "There is nothing about power." So suppose Tripurāri has sold one book. The lady inquired, "Is there any basic instruction about power shortage?" And he said, "Yes." So you think it is wrong. That is your version.
Bhūrijana: I think a simple lie like that is not bad.
Prabhupāda: But a devotee's view is that whatever may be her inquiry, if she purchases one book, she'll be benefited. This is the point. But you, as big moralist, you, (laughs) you think that he has cheated. He has not cheated. He has benefited her. Somehow or other he has given a book to her. Someday she'll read and she'll benefit. But you people, you think that why we should sell like that, that, "Yes, there is some solution of power shortage." Actually there is, but you think that he has lied. Just like there are sometimes the father's child is suffering from fever.
Reporter: I didn't understand that last.
Rāmeśvara: I said to Prabhupāda that the modern man believes that the moon is closer, but Prabhupāda said, "But our ancient literatures teach that the moon is further away." So since we have that information, how can we accept the version of the modern scientists?
Reporter: Hm hm.
Rāmeśvara: We've got...
Prabhupāda: Not only that. Why this arrangement that Monday and, Sunday first, Monday second?
Reporter: Well, that doesn't necessarily speak of distance.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Rāmeśvara: They don't have..., the reason they don't have an idea is because before you came to America, the understanding of the science of God was presented on a kindergarten level, the Bible. So it did not satisfy their scientific mind. So because before you came to give them the Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, they had not information, and they did not accept the Christian version.
Prabhupāda: No, apart from Christian or Hindu, the general mass of people, how they can say that there is no creator? From common sense?
Rāmeśvara: They are accepting authority, and so they say...
Prabhupāda: Apart from authority, from practical experience....
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are fools.
Prabhupāda: ...how one can...? Eh?
Prabhupāda: My body is very strong. My family members are very nice, well-educated. I have got good bank balance, and I have got respectable position," so on, so on. He is thinking, "These things will save me." This world is struggle for existence, and when there is struggle, there are some soldiers. So ātma-sainyeṣu asatsu api. One is thinking that "These are my soldiers. I'll own victory in the struggle for existence." But pramattaḥ tasya nidhanaṁ paśyann api na paśyati. But he's so mad, he knows that these things will be vanquished, and still, he does not see to it. Paśyann api na paśyati. Therefore his anxiety. So Prahlāda Mahārāja is, this version, sadā samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahāt: "On account of accepting nonpermanent things as permanent, therefore he's full of anxiety." Sadā samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahāt. Then what is the remedy? The remedy is hitvātmā-ghāṭaṁ gṛham andha-kūpam: "This andha-kūpam, dark well of ignorance, one must give up." Then vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta: (SB 7.5.5) "He must go to vana."
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Bharadvāja: So I think we could try casting it in bronze.
Prabhupāda: Bronze. Bronze will not be polished?
Bharadvāja: It is the American or the Western version of the aṣṭa-dhātu.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that is all right.
Bharadvāja: Or, not aṣṭa-dhātu, but bell metal.
Prabhupāda: It will be polished?
Bharadvāja: Yes, you can polish very nicely.
Kīrtanānanda: I've never seen bronze polished.
Prabhupāda: Any one of these boys can answer? Why Sunday first? Ambarīṣa Mahārāja?
Ambarīṣa: Why Sunday first? Because the sun is closer to the earth. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: That is my version.
Ambarīṣa: Yes, I agree with that.
Prabhupāda: But why do they say the moon planet first?
Ambarīṣa: Because their senses are imperfect.
Prabhupāda: Svarūpa Dāmodara also, he also not replied satisfactorily. (break) ...do not count talking about sun, moon excursion. Why they are now stop, not talking anything?
Prabhupāda: It is my version?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, but I think he has gotten this from you, the idea of Vedic education. You're the only person preaching this in the world, practically. He's certainly read some of your books, Prabhupāda. (break)
Viśvakarmā: He said, "We heard that your spiritual master's coming to town. We'd like to put part of one of the articles from BTG in our paper." Did he put in any advertisement? Oh, I'm surprised. He said, "I'd also like to put an advertisement in the paper." Then he asked, he said he wanted to charge us money for the advertisement. So I told him, I said, "You're from India. You should want to do this for free." He wouldn't do it.
Hari-śauri: They use part of your article to advertise Indian culture. This "Could Plato have gotten his ideas from ancient Indian Vedas?" And at the same time they won't even give a free advertisement when you, the speaker of the article, is here in person.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, you have refused to pay.
Prabhupāda: Pratihatā means suppose you are destined to suffer. So apratihatā means in spite of your so-called suffering, the suffering will be reduced or there will be no suffering. But in spite of suffering, you can make progress in spiritual life. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja himself, his father was putting him in so many suffering conditions but it was not impeded. He was making progress. He was making progress. He didn't care for father'sputting him into so many suffering. That is called apratihatā. If you want to execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness, your material condition of life cannot check it. That is the progress (?) (indistinct). But so far material condition, that cannot be checked. You have to suffer. But in case of devotee that suffering also, can be stopped. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa's version is false: ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. Suffering is there on account of my sinful activities but Kṛṣṇa says ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ. Make it clear.
Prabhupāda: Now make Indian Bengali edition. It will be very much appreciated in India. Yes. Is it not?
Ṛṣi Kumāra: Yes, everything looks so pleasing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They will very much like this movement. Make some Hindi version, Bengali.
Kīrtanānanda: I think it will be a great success in India.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Kumbhamela we can show. You had been in Kumbhamela?
Ṛṣi Kumāra: No, I haven't. Last time it was Kumbhamela, I was in Bombay. I had to do some business with books and stuff.
Prabhupāda: They are seeing... They're tested. I don't make any compromise. All my speaking is also no compromise. Here is guru, here is Kṛṣṇa, here is God, here is Vedānta. Real version they neglect, and they stick to the rascal's version, Śaṅkara's version, Śārīraka-bhāṣya. All over India, they are reading Śārīraka-bhāṣya.
Hari-śauri: Rāmānujācārya is very well known in India, so why don't they read his commentary?
Prabhupāda: They hate Rāmānujācārya because he's Vaiṣṇava.
Hari-śauri: Because he doesn't allow them to speculate.
Prabhupāda: We are pushing this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is being appreciated. It will take some time. Because so much mischievous activities have been done by the Māyāvādīs, to counteract, it will take some time. They are simply mischievous. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has rejected them. Māyāvādī bhāṣya sunile haya sarva-nāśa (CC Madhya 6.169). If one takes the Māyāvādī version of the śāstras, then his spiritual life is finished. He becomes atheist. His spiritual life is finished. Now what is the contribution? You talked about Vivekananda, what is his contribution?
Dr. Sukla: Nothing.
Bill Sauer: Sir, may I read you back the, my version of "Materialism Without Purpose"? May I read you "Materialism Without Purpose"? "Mankind's insatiable appetite for material things stems from instinctive desire to pursue technology, which in turn drives civilization to a frenzy of activity. However, without a cause or a purpose," or spirituality, as you say, "the rush and hurry in uncertain directions to uncertain places creates an excess of technological gimmickery. Perhaps this continuing quest for more material goods would be less anxious if the cause of this obsession of mankind were universally recognized. If we saw the ultimate use of technology as an extension of nature with a purpose for the whole life system, perhaps a new life style would evolve. We would see creative natural instinctive satisfying outlet for energies, and we might all collectively attain more peace of mind. The waste of technological gimmickery would then disappear. Hard reality, however, will extinguish our relentless desire for material things if we do not correct the situation ourselves. We will soon run out of resources and power if our technological explosions continues as blind as a raging torrent of water flowing in any direction gravity takes it."
Prabhupāda: Yes, we are carried away by the laws of nature. However you may improve your technological science, you are under the laws of material nature. That you cannot change. But if you revive your spiritual life, then you can change. Otherwise it is not possible. If you keep yourself under the laws of material nature, then you have to be carried away by the laws of material nature, however expert you may be in technological understanding.
Prabhupāda: Los Angeles this was Mercedes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, Mercury. Right? Mercury?
Prabhupāda: No, this is nice car.
Rāmeśvara: It's their version of Cadillac, Mercury's version of Cadillac. They cannot understand because we say we are not after material opulence for ourselves, they cannot understand that we drive in these cars.
Prabhupāda: They think that we unnecessarily criticize. But we require everything. But just like a man. When he's alive his decoration, his nice dress, everything is very good. But if he's dead, then it is useless. Similarly, without spiritual consciousness we are dead. Because the body is dead. Because the spirit soul is there, therefore it is moving. The important point is the spirit soul. So if you are simply taking care of the body very nicely, that means you are decorating the dead body.
Prabhupāda: You can see some of the lists.
Interviewer: What I've heard, what I've heard some Hindu professors say is that Hinduism is such a complex and profound religion and that the Kṛṣṇa consciousness members are very superficial about it. They simply go through these disciplines and really don't involve themselves in the... They take a superficial version of Hinduism.
Prabhupāda: That may be Hindu religion. But we do not belong to any religion. That may be true for the Hindu religion what the professor has said, but we do not identify with any religion. We are different from any religious system.
Interviewer: But the scriptures are the same, the Vedic scriptures are Hindu scriptures.
Prabhupāda: No, Hindu religion... Of course, the scripture is the Vedic principle, but the word is not Vedic. This word Hindu is not Vedic word.
Prabhupāda: This is the statement of Lord Brahmā. Not only Lord Brahmā, Vyāsadeva, Nārada and recently big, big ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka, Viṣṇu Svāmī, even Śaṅkarācārya and latest, five hundred years ago, Lord Caitanya—everyone has accepted Kṛṣṇa as the supreme controller. And in the dictionary you'll find... What is religion? Religion means to accept a supreme controller. That is religion. So in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also it is said, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Dharma means the controlling laws given by God. That is called dharma. So real dharma... From all Vedic scriptures, from the version of all authorities, it is confirmed that īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1): "Kṛṣṇa is the supreme controller. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that we are presenting Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Every religion has conception of God, but no religious system in this world has got any clear conception of God. But in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement it is not actually a so-called religious movement, but it is an educational movement to give information to the human society about God, that "Here is God." You are searching after God, and somebody, in disappointment saying that "God is dead." God is neither dead, nor it is fictitious, but it is factual, and here is this God, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). This is the verdict of the Vedic literature.
Pṛthu-putra: (translating) "The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is most known under the name of Bhāgavata-Purāṇa. The Sanskrit word Purāṇa means 'ancient, old work.' It is a commentary on the Vedānta-sūtra by Vyasadeva, its author, from which we also learn about the Mahabharata. From a general way, but particularly the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the Purāṇa is a true encyclopedia containing all the aspects of the life of spirit. We have to see that this great work is containing all the predictions, this, of realizing in every detail. Then it is very important to point out that the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam under its poetic form is a very actual by the subject which it's treating about. The truth is one and universal, and the tradition of this work is always valuable. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is an essential development of the Bhagavad-gītā. It's talking about the questions metaphysical, philosophical, religious, psychologic, political and social. The wonderful tradition of Swami Prabhupāda is inspired from the same principles that the one who guided him in his translation of the Bhagavad-gītā. Every Sanskrit verse is written in Latin characters and then a literary version. The commentary, which is referring always from the Veda, Upaniṣad, and other texts, is allowing the reader to make spiritual progress. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is a precious work and will be revealed for a lot of people from the Western. And there is a very urgent need to spread this message throughout the world."
Jayatīrtha: Ah! It's a very good decision.
Bhagavān: Doctor of letters.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: These European scholars are very appreciative of your books.
Bhagavān: Every book comes with these bookmarks.
Prabhupāda: Oh, bookmark. So, it is another step forward. (laughs) Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi-grāma (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126).
Harikeśa: I think the French are on top though.
Hari-śauri: Their French Bhagavad-gītā, the French one, when it came out, it's so much better than any other version we've had. Every time they bring a new book out, it seems to be an advancement on everything else.
Harikeśa: Yogeśvara is very...
Prabhupāda: Oh, he is very expert, very enthusiastic. His wife is...
Harikeśa: Very nice.
Hari-śauri: They included a number of photos also. In the picture sections they've headed each section with a photo. There's one of Vṛndāvana temple. They have a photo of your room in Rādhā-Dāmodara.
Prabhupāda: Oh! Where it is?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: Says, "Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, India's message of peace and good will. Sixty volumes of elaborate English version by Tridandi Goswami A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami. Carried by the Scindia Steam Navigation Co. Ltd., Bombay, all over the world for scientific knowledge of God." Then it says, "The sufferings of the entire human society can at once be brought under control simply by individual practice of bhakti-yoga, a simple and easy process of chanting the holy name of God. Every country, every nation and every community throughout the world has some conception of the holy name of God, and as such either the Hindus or the Muhammadans or the Christians, everyone can easily chant the holy name of God in a meditative mood, and that will bring about the required peace and good will in the present problematic human society. Any inquiry in this connection will be gladly answered by Śrī Swamiji.
Yogeśvara: Professor Chenique wishes to know whether we cannot do one very small pocketbook edition that will sell very inexpensively. Something like I think in India they have done.
Hari-śauri: Like the abridged version in America they did?
Yogeśvara: No, something like this, very small.
Prabhupāda: I have no objection. It is nice proposal.
Hari-śauri: Like that Chinese one? First six chapters.
Prabhupāda: Where is that Chinese?
Bhūgarbha: He feels that if we bring out a very small, compact edition, it will sell very nicely.
Prabhupāda: Janaḥ-kirna, this very word is used janaḥ-kirna. Congested with life. And we have got description, this loka, this loka, this loka is fighting sometimes with other loka, or that... Everything is description there. There is milk ocean, there is this ocean, that ocean, varieties of. So if we have to take these rascals' version, they're simply rogues, then the whole śāstra becomes false.
Atreya Ṛṣi: The point in the śāstra is that every...
Prabhupāda: And they will advertise that these descriptions in the śāstras, they are all mythology. Of course, this kind of bluffing cannot go because suppose this Mars expedition becomes a failure, like that, the same... It will be failure. So next time, if they propose, I think people will be hesitant to allow them to. Simply bringing people rocks and sands, without any utility, after spending so much money. How long they can repeat this, "Yes, we went to this planet, rocks.
Prabhupāda: Books means solid ground. What we want to preach, it is recorded, not any concocted ideas. There is direction by Rūpa Gosvāmī:
- śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-
- pañcarātra-vidhiṁ vinā
- aikāntikī harer bhaktir
- utpātāyaiva kalpate
- (Brs. 1.2.101)
Without the support of śruti, smṛti, purāṇa, any religious movement for understanding God is simply disturbance-utpātāyaiva kalpate. Utpāt... That is the... It is the version given by... Even Kṛṣṇa, He's God Himself, He's speaking, He's giving reference to the Vedānta-sūtra: brahma-sūtra-padaiś caiva hetumadbhir viniścitaiḥ (BG 13.5). So without reference to the Vedic literature, anything you speak, it has no ground. Śruti-pramāṇa, this is Vedic culture, śruti-pramāṇa. It must be supported by śruti. In Caitanya-caritāmṛta you'll find whenever Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, He gives immediately Vedic evidence, śruti-pramāṇa. Then it is solid. So we are trying to present this movement with śruti-pramāṇa. Our Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam will be finished in sixty volumes, and Caitanya-caritāmṛta is already finished in seventeen volumes. So altogether at least we'll have hundred volumes of books, small and big, to give śruti-pramāṇa. This is the example.
Prabhupāda: No, they have considered that the bhakti-mārga is a means to become one.
Indian man: Means to become one. That's exactly what I mean.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is their version. But that is not the version of Bhagavad-gītā.
Indian man: Yes, it's the only way. Bhakti-mārga is only mārga. It is only way to become one.
Prabhupāda: No. They never become one. Therefore nitya-yuktā upāsate.
Indian man: Then why should we say in our...?
Prabhupāda: You can say anything, but that is not accepted. We have to accept Kṛṣṇa's statement. You can say anything.
Prabhupāda: That Bhavan's Journal, he did not dare to publish my statement. Everyone is combined to kill Kṛṣṇa. Everyone, all over the world. God... "There is no God," the scientists, these philosophers, the politicians, everyone. This is the only movement talking of God. Nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādī. Everywhere, impersonalists and zero. There is no God. The zero-vādīs, they are little frank but these rascals, nirviśeṣavādīs, God has no head, no tail, they are dangerous. Zero-vādīs, they call him zero, that's alright. That is, we can understand, they admit. But these rascals, zero, nirviśeṣavādīs, "Yes, there is God, but He has no head, he has no tail, he has no hand, he has no leg." Then what he has? They are greatest cheater. More dangerous than the śūnyavādīs. That is the version of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Vedinam mayima bhogda hoila nāstik, vedāśraya, nāstikavāda bhogda ki hodi. These Buddhists, they do not care for the Vedic injunction. We can understand. But these Śankarites they take shelter of the Vedas and they say, "There is no form of God." And that is being followed (by) the so-called Hindus. All the invitees in that meeting, Bajaj meeting, they are all nirviśeṣvādī.
Prabhupāda: So this is difficulty. If I say, "Here is a person who knows mathematics," why there should be... Any person who is interested in mathematics will welcome him. So similarly, here is Vedic knowledge. Vedic knowledge means real knowledge. Here is Bhagavad-gītā, the knowledge of God, but they misunderstand. They think, "Oh, we have got another God." How God can be another? So people should be sober, that we are giving books. They should understand. And it is accepted by the educated class, big, big professors, big, big philosophers. It is not blind faith. Just like this version of Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "As we are changing body even in this duration of life, similarly, when this body is finished, then another body," so where is the difficulty to understand? But they will say, "It is Hindu idea." Fact we are presenting, that "You are changing your body. When you came out of the womb of your mother, the body was so small.
Prabhupāda: I know. There is no question of individual. I know these rascals. God is so easy thing that simply by I am thinking that "I am moving the sun, I am moving the..., mo mo mo mo." He'll... because the whole world is mūḍha, we cannot say that "Yes, I am also with you. I am also one of the mūḍha." We cannot say. The votes may be against us but we cannot agree to that. We simply speak for Kṛṣṇa's sake. That is Kṛṣṇa. We cannot make any compromise. What do they say about this version in the Bhagavad-gītā, kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ prapadyante anya devatāḥ (BG 7.20). What do they say? What is their opinion? But don't say, "Somebody said..." Everyone is fool, rascal. What is the value of their words?
Guest: Or this one mission says, "You worship your is the devatā."
Prabhupāda: Therefore these chemists—they are predominating—so how it is possible to take their version? Ayi. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) ...a simple version of Vaiṣṇava.
- piśācī pāile yena mati-cchana haya
- māyā-grasta jīvera haya se bhāva udaya
Jaya. (someone else comes) Wherefrom you are coming?
Devotee (2): From London.
Prabhupāda: Oh. You are Englishman?
Devotee (2): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Stay here. We want some Englishmen. (laughter) No. We want Englishmen, Australian, Canadian, because they have no visa problem.
Dr. Patel: American will have no visa problem very soon.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not so easy. Out of millions and millions of persons, one becomes perfect. And out of millions of perfect, one may understand Kṛṣṇa. That is the version of Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not so easy that everyone, each one will become Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is very difficult. But by the grace of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, by this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, this is helping. Otherwise, it is very difficult task. Very difficult. It is recommended in the śāstra, kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet (SB 12.3.51). Simply the Kali-yuga, kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ. This is the version of Śukadeva Gosvāmī. He described the faulty ocean of this Kali-yuga and at last he encouraged that, "Mahārāja, there is one opportunity in this age." Kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ. Very great opportunity. What is that? Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya. Simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet. He becomes liberated and he goes back to home. This opportunity we are preaching. That's all. Otherwise, to understand Kṛṣṇa is not so easy thing. This opportunity, kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu also recommends, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalaṁ kalau nāsty eva (CC Adi 17.21). Otherwise, in this age, very difficult. (break)
Prabhupāda: (laughs) It's nonsense. Unless one is best why he should be given first? Any... If there is any meeting, the most important man is given the first position. At least out of respect. Everyone has given first position. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has therefore praised. What is his nonsense arguments?
Yaśomatīnandana: There are two other versions of Bhāgavatam. There also, Śrīdhara Svāmī has been considered the best commentator.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepts. Svāmī nā māne yei jana veśyāra bhitare. Everyone has given. Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, iti svāmī caraṇa kahe.(?) Jīva Gosvāmī, all authorities, they accept. And why they are criticizing Śrīdhara Svāmī?
Girirāja: That is the main point.
Prabhupāda: They say like that?
Hari-śauri: Yeah, he said that he didn't know he wrote the wrong version in the section about Vallabhācārya and that the real version is somewhere else.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Hari-śauri: Yeah, well they don't accept the Caitanya-caritāmṛta.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) They don't accept, we don't accept you. The whole world is accepting Caitanya-caritāmṛta (indistinct) all over the world, not just (indistinct). All over the world. (indistinct-fragmentary for some time)
Girirāja: They're having a ceremony of bringing the flag.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says that this Bhagavad-gītā has to be received by the disciplic succession. And sa kālena yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. Because that disciplic succession is now broken, that yoga system is now lost. So all these interpreters, they are interpreting in their own way. Therefore it is lost. So there is no use of consulting this lost version.
Guest (3): So you just give it as it is.
Prabhupāda: That is... Therefore my Bhagavad-gītā is named Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. No interpretation.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Each word is the original Sanskrit śloka, English transliteration, word by word meaning, so there's no room for manipulation. There's a translation and purport. Every book that Śrīla Prabhupāda has written has the same format and each book is illustrated.
Guest (3): Do you believe that the Gītā should be followed as it is or interpretation...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. If you read somebody's book, you must read the author's version. Why should you bring interpretation? This is... You have no business. If you want to say something of your philosophy, you can say, but why do you take Bhagavad-gītā and give your own interpretation? That is very bad.
Guest (3): But can you not apply your own philos...
Prabhupāda: Why? Why should you? If you take Bhagavad-gītā, you should speak what Bhagavad-gītā is saying. And interpretation is required when the thing is not understood clearly. There you get interpretation. Unnecessarily, why should you interpret Bhagavad-gītā? You have no right. Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). So anyone can understand there is a place Kurukṣetra still. Why should you interpret, "Kurukṣetra means this body and this and that," why? What is the necessity? Do you think there is necessity?
Prabhupāda: He is not a scholar. He's a rascal. We have to follow the ācāryas. The ācāryas never said. There are so many ācāryas. They never say. So, we have to follow, ācāryopāsanam, not the rascals. We cannot worship the rascals. Worship ācāryas. They are guide. So śāstra says... Find out sa evāyaṁ mayā te 'dya yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. Purātanaḥ, Kṛṣṇa says that imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1), "I spoke this science to Vivasvān, the sun-god." So if you calculate sun, this sun, Vivasvān, is the father of Manu, Vaivasvata Manu. And if you take, calculate, it becomes forty millions of years. So this Bhagavad-gītā is spoken, according to the Bhagavad-gītā, according to the version of Kṛṣṇa, forty millions of years ago. Now He says that science was known to the people by paramparā. And that paramparā is lost somehow or other. Therefore as... (break)
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, not spitting. Who is spitting? Everyone... Just like you have got a father and mother. You are not spitting. Whenever father, mother, comes, he honors. That is your version, but his version is different. He loves his father and mother. He teaches him Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Hari-śauri: My mother testified to that, that when I was at home I was impossible to live with, and when they saw me afterwards, I was very nice.
Prabhupāda: Many. The Hayagrīva's father, mother.
Rāmeśvara: My parents think like that too.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So now read it. No, it is better late than never. You have never read Bhagavad-gītā; now read it. The movement is there for this purpose. Now read it.
Guest (8) (Indian man): The simple version is there also for a layman like us who do not know?
Prabhupāda: Even layman, if you offer your obeisances to God, it does it require any...?
Guest (8): I don't mean, sir. I mean about Bhagavad-gītā, the book. It is readable version, I mean? We don't know Sanskrit very well.
Prabhupāda: It is explained in English.
Guest (8): Ah, that is what I want.
Guest (1): It has been translated into fifteen languages.
Prabhupāda: Also Caitanya Mahāprabhu has decide..., that decidedly given His version, asat-saṅga-tyāga ei vaiṣṇava-ācāra: (CC Madhya 22.87) "A Vaiṣṇava, his first business is to give up the company of undesirable elements, asat." So who is undesirable element? Now, asat eka strī-saṅgī, who is attached with woman, and kṛṣṇa-abhakta. So as soon as you mix with these so-called bābājīs, bhajana, bhajanānandīs and mixes with three dozen women, you are fallen. Immediately. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order. Asat eka strī-saṅgī. And regularly they are parakīyā-rasa. Their theory is that you have to select one woman who is not your bona fide wife, parakīyā. She must be other's wife or outsider. And with her you may do... You become Kṛṣṇa, and she becomes Rādhārāṇī. Then you become happy. This is going on. Do you know that?
Prabhupāda: Nainaṁ chindanti... That is the nonphysical.
Hari-śauri: Like a comparative study chart.
Prabhupāda: We are presenting śāstric version in modern scientific symbolic representative. So the chairman said that he never...?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Here's the letter with me. These are the... That's a comparison between Bhagavad-gītā and science. On the left side is the modern scientific view, and the right side is from Bhagavad-gītā about the nature of the Absolute Truth.
Prabhupāda: "Two alternative views of the laws of nature. These laws exist, but they are inconceivable to the human mind. The view of modern science—yes. They exist invariantly throughout space—yes. They do not change with time—yes. They control all manifestation—no." What that is, mean?
Prabhupāda: That is aparādha.
Hari-śauri: One of the ten offenses.
Rāmeśvara: 'Cause sometimes when we interview these people who are chanting, they speak from their own realization, and it is not exactly the version of Śukadeva Gosvāmī, it is not..., but it is their own realization, whatever little bit they have realized.
Prabhupāda: No, no. They may chant, but they must understand that the chanting process, that will be more effective. That they must know. Chanting is open. Anyone can chant, but they must know it, that "If I chant in the proper process, then it will be effective."
Prabhupāda: We wanted some.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said he wanted some hundred copies.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, those were the American. But now we are doing the Indian version, which is costing us 30 paisa each. So that we can give away to anyone who writes in. So I am going to send them. But he says many inquiries are pouring in. And when I was in Calcutta three weeks ago I saw him in his office. He showed me letters. They are coming from all over east India, from Orissa, from Cuttack, about our books. During the month of March, BBT India distributed over about fifty thousand pieces of books and magazines, to the temples, libraries, everything included. Fifty thousand pieces of books.
Prabhupāda: Johnny Walker. (laughter)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And it was very interesting, that book. That was... This is the Origin of Species. That was Darwin's book. This was the modern version of Darwin's book. It's about this big, and it's full of nice colors with all molecules, DNA and all these nice, modern-looking molecules, and then they say... They start... It starts like this, "In the beginning there was a big blank." (Prabhupāda laughs)
Prabhupāda: "There was..."?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: "There was a blank. There was a void." Everything was blank. And the way he started, the foreword was given by a scientist called Crick, Watson and Crick. Crick is in Cambridge, and Watson is in Harvard. So these two men were the men who discovered the structure of the DNA molecule that they thought that may be life. And they got Nobel Prize for this. And Crick was writing in the first page, saying that "This is the way we have understood about life." But "Everything was started like that, from blank and a blank, blank. And somehow all these molecules get together and then it became Johnny later on." (laughter) And we can make a nice story out of it.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're awaiting that. The whole world waits for Prabhupāda's books. We get letters from all over the world. One woman prayed that... She says that she has read all nine cantos. Now she's stuck. She can't come on the Tenth Canto till he finishes. And you already said that she shouldn't, you know, that we should not read the bogus versions. So she can't go into the Tenth Canto until we come out with our own edition. Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Jaya. (end)
Prabhupāda: Yes, you must have proper answer as far as possible.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We just read... We got a version from South India, and we've even found that there are different conceptions of what the Bhāgavata is saying. But the Purāṇas, they give some Puranic references.
Bhakti-prema: It is written the world... The earth is round and flat.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Bhakti-prema: Earth is round and flat both, together.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yaśodā-nandana: If it is inconceivable, then they will say how we can conceive it?
Prabhupāda: Take the version of Bhāgavatam.
Bhakti-prema: Everything we conceived, that is wrong?
Prabhupāda: Everything you conceived, that is wrong. Yes. Therefore inconceivable.
Bhakti-prema: The Lord is inconceivable always and any (indistinct), it is inconceivable.
Prabhupāda: But we have to accept śāstra.
Bhakti-prema: This outer structure of the Lord is one with the Lord. It is inconceivable; it is not conceivable.
Prabhupāda: Acintya-guṇa-svarūpam. Acintya-guṇa-svarūpam. Yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa. Acintya. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. Acintya.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But they won't change.
Akṣayānanda: I also said that many, many swamis and yogis and sannyāsīs have tried to bring the teachings all over the world. And they have given different versions, just like dhyāna, jñāna, karma, etc. But then I quoted two ślokas, na tad mām abhijānanti, and the other one, yas tas tu aham evaṁ viduḥ.(?) I said, "In this way our spiritual master has taught us. Even though we are foreigners, he has successfully made us come to the lotus feet of Lord Kṛṣṇa. So if you are all Indians and you know Lord Kṛṣṇa better than me, so come and stay with us. All over the world my Guru Mahārāja has established our temples. Please stay with us anywhere in the world and help us, join us at the lotus feet of the Lord." So they were very happy with this.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's good that you tell this to Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Bombay also.
| Page Title: | Version (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 26 of Feb, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=123, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 123 |