Varnasrama-dharma (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"Varnasrama-dharma" |"Varnasramadharma"

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Guest (4): Mahārāja, do the Western and Eastern societies respond differently to this call...

Prabhupāda: No. You cannot say that. Two plus two equal to four everywhere, East and West. There is no difference, East and West. It is scientific. It is vijñaṇa. So when you call of, talk of science, there is no difference of understanding in the East and West. The same thing is understood.

Guest (4): Mahārāja, (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Varnāśrama-dharma... That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Qualified. Therefore we want qualified brāhmaṇas, qualified kṣatriyas. At the present moment, without being qualified, they are passing on as brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya. That is not varṇāśrama. Without being qualified they are all śūdras, all caṇḍālas. But when they are properly trained and qualified, then it is varṇāśrama, real varṇāśrama.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: Varṇa, varṇāśrama. And in the Bhagavad-gītā—perhaps you have read Bhagavad-gītā—there is also the statement, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ (BG 4.13). It is... This system is created originally by Viṣṇu. So as everything is creation of the Supreme, they cannot be changed. That is a prevalent everywhere, that a... Sun. Sun is creation of the Supreme. So sunshine is here in America, in Russia, in India—everywhere. Similarly, this varṇāśrama system is prevalent everywhere in some form or other. Just like the brāhmaṇas. The brāhmaṇas means the most intelligent class of men, brain, brain of the society. Then the kṣatriyas, the administrator class. Then the vaiśyas, the productive class, and the śūdras, the worker class. These four classes of men are everywhere present in different names. And because it is creation by the original creator, so it is prevalent everywhere, varṇāśrama-dharma.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: So we have got evidences that his varṇāśrama system is current at least for the five thousand years, varṇāśrama system. And this varṇāśrama system is mentioned in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa also. Varnāśramācaravata puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān

(CC Madhya 8.58). Varnāśrama acaravata. So that is stated in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa. And so varṇāśrama-dharma is not a, within any historical period calculated in the modern age. It is natural. And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam the comparison is given, just like in your body, in my body, there are four divisions, the face, facial, or the brain division, and the arms division, the belly division, and the leg division, similarly, by nature's way these four divisions are existing in the social body.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 4.13.48 to SB 4.14.11 -- January 18, 1972, Jaipur:

Prabhupāda: The people have taken away the power. But according to Vedic civilization, this people's government is not sanctioned. Democracy. Democracy is not sanctioned. But in the Kali-yuga, nobody will be a standard king. Anybody, by hook and crook, if he captures the royal throne, he becomes king. That is predicted in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Formerly, only the kṣatriyas were the kings. But at the present moment, because the institution of varṇāśrama-dharma is topsy-turvy, practically no more existing, everyone in this age is calculated to the śūdras. So therefore, there is struggle, who will capture the power? We see practically in political field, the people are interested for capturing the power, but they are not interested... Formality. So they put their manifesto before the election, that we shall serve you in this way and that way.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Who is this? Stop it. (break) The whole principle is, Vedic principle is, to reduce it, not to increase it. Therefore the whole system is varṇāśrama-dharma. Our, the Indian system is called varṇa and āśrama, four spiritual orders and four social orders. The social order is brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. Uh, this is spiritual order. And social order is brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, and śūdra. So under this system the regulative principles are so nice that even one has got the tendency for enjoy material life, he is so nicely molded that at last he gets liberation and goes back to home, back to Godhead. This is the process. So sex life is not required on principle, but because we are attached to that, therefore there are some regulative principles. Sex life... It is said in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: No, actually... Hindu, the word is not to be found in our Vedic scripture. It is the name given by the Mohammedans. So that is going on. Actually it is called varṇāśrama-dharma, four varṇas, four āśrama. The four varṇas, the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. And four āśramas-brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Combined together it is called varṇāśrama. So unless the human being follows this varṇāśrama principle he's not a human being. He's animal, because animal has no varṇa, no āśrama.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests and Devotees -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi for some time, a few English words) (break) (Hindi for some time) (break) When the destiny of the people are to be controlled, there must be very, very intelligent man. That is Vedic civilization. There is standard aims and objects on which the people should be trained up. That is varṇāśrama-dharma. Viṣṇur ārādhanam. Worshiping Viṣṇu. This is the ultimate aim. So the whole society is divided into brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa—departmental—and they are trained up. But the aim is viṣṇur ārādhanam.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: First of all, you must become graduate, then you should take entrance in the law college, then you must learn. So what is God, that is the inquiry, but it requires training. And that is Vedic dharma, varṇāśrama-dharma. Varṇāśrama-dharma. Varṇāśramācaravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān (CC Madhya 8.58). Anyone who has taken to this system of varṇāśrama-dharma, four varṇas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra; and four āśrama: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Unless one takes to this institutional education, he's no more than an animal. So to know God means he must become a brāhmaṇa, real, qualified brāhmaṇa. Therefore brāhmaṇa is respected.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Why he should pass? Suppose he says, "I'm medical man." He must be qualified. And if he says, "I am medical man," then he's cheating. So you cannot call yourself a brāhmaṇa unless you are qualified. But that is going on. And this cheating is being accepted. Therefore this varṇāśrama-dharma. Hindu dharma or Vedic dharma means varṇāśrama-dharma. One must first of all accept the principles of varṇas and āśramas. Then there is question of understanding God. God is not so cheap thing, "What is God?" and you understand immediately. You must become first of all brāhmaṇa.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Now why you are asking this question? You know, I've explained, that one has to become brāhmaṇa. There are still there are many brāhmaṇas, those who are with children. Even Caitanya Mahāprabhu, although He had no children, He was family man. Nityānanda Prabhu was family man, and Advaita Prabhu was family man. They're all brāhmaṇas, family men, but they knew what is God. The real thing is to know God. Not to, because everything is allowed. These eight, four varṇas and four āśramas. There is no such thing that one has to become, to come to this form of life or that form of life. So varṇāśramācaravatā. You must execute the varṇāśrama-dharma.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That is the difficulty. This is the first time that systematically we are presenting what is actual Vedic dharma or Bhāgavata-dharma. This question was raised by Rāmānanda Rāya before Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Varṇāśrama, he quoted this verse from Viṣṇu Purāṇa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya, āge kaha āra. "Yes, it is all right, varṇāśrama-dharma, but it is now external. If you know something better, you speak." So in this way the whole system was discussed. At last Caitanya Mahāprabhu approved this system of śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). Chanting and hearing about Viṣṇu. Varṇāśrama-dharma is also Viṣṇu. Viṣṇur ārādhyate. The real purpose is understanding Viṣṇu the Supreme. So varṇāśrama-dharma is also meant for understanding Viṣṇu.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So... But these formulas of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, it is the, the age is so rotten that it is very difficult to revive this varṇāśrama-dharma culture. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya, āge kaha āra. Yes, it is all right, but it is external now. It cannot be utilized at the present moment. So when Rāmānanda Rāya stated, citing one verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir ye prāyaśo 'jita jito 'py asi tais tri-lokyām. If one simply hears about Viṣṇu, never mind in whatever condition he is, then he can understand what is God. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatām. Śruti-gatām means hearing. Receiving from the ear. Śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No. Dharma means one's sva-kar... Just like varṇāśrama-dharma.

Dr. Patel: That is the real dharma.

Prabhupāda: Yes. According to varṇa and āśrama. That is called varṇāśrama-dharma.

Dr. Patel: The greatest gift to the humanity is varṇāśrama-dharma by the ancient culture of India.

Prabhupāda: No, it is given by God.

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Varṇāśrama-dharma. And I don't know why people don't follow it.

Prabhupāda: But there is no guidance. There is no guidance.

Dr. Patel: Even imperceptibly one āśrama may be following, is followed by western countries. They have got all the (indistinct) though they are not putting on (indistinct) and all. (Hindi) But presently this is, we are living in Kali-yuga.

Prabhupāda: Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Varṇāśrama-dharma is there, but it is not organized. Varṇa... Because it is made by God, mayā sṛṣṭam, it cannot be violated. So... But it (is) in a perverted way. Therefore we are suffering.

Dr. Patel: But in old days, I think, this varṇāśrama-dharma was followed...

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Rascal civilization, rascal government. And people are transferred into rascals. (Hindi) Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Without anna, how they can live? There is no arrangement for anna. They're simply passing resolution, legislative laws. And no anna. Just see what kind of wretched government it is. Everywhere. There is no anna. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni. The first duty of government is to see that everyone is happy, without any anxiety. These preliminary necessities of life, āhāra-nidra-bhaya-maithunam, there must be sufficient arrangement for these preliminary necessities of life. One must eat sumptuously. Not over-eating, indulgence. No. But he must have sufficient food to keep up the health. Similarly, he must have place to sleep. We, we are prepared to offer everything. And be Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is our mission. Not by eating and sleeping, become rogues and thieves and rascals. That we will not allow. That is varṇāśrama-dharma.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So one must be intelligent enough to see God. Now, the bird I do not see, but I am hearing the sound. So one must know there is a nice bird. Because the varṇāśrama-dharma is lacking, nobody is being educated as a brāhmaṇa. They have lost all knowledge. Suppose in the society there is nobody educated as engineer; you don't find any engineers. So who will understand this? Unless one becomes brahminical qualified, they cannot understand. Therefore a class of men must be there, trained up as brāhmaṇa. Then the understanding of God consciousness will be there. Otherwise finished. So now this rascal civilization, they are simply creating śūdras. What they will understand?

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Those who are pure devotees—avyabhicāreṇi, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam (Brs. 1.1.11)—such persons are above this material infection. So therefore he doesn't require to accept sannyāsa or brahmacārī. He doesn't... These are gradual processes, to come to the varṇāśrama system, then accept the varṇa and āśramas, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha. This is called varṇāśrama system. But this is the beginning of human life. One who does not take to this system, he's animal because animal, there is no such system. And because in this age the varṇāśrama is not observed, therefore men are like animals. Dharmeṇa hīnā paṣubhiḥ samānāḥ. Dharma means this varṇāśrama-dharma.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: No, dharma is duty, varṇāśrama-dharma. That is also given up. That means the only duty becomes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He said, sarva-dharmān parityajya. In the beginning He said that dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya. Yes. Yuge yuge sambhavāmi. Now, He said that "I appear to reestablish the principle of religion." So at the last stage He said, sarva-dharmān parityajya. That means the so-called dharmas, or religion, which is going on in the world, they are not real. And the Bhāgavata therefore says, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2), that "All kinds of pretending religion is rejected here."

Meeting with GBC -- March 31, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: ...otherwise, we recommend everyone become sannyāsa. What is the use of not becoming? (all laugh) We are giving up this world. We are preparing ourself for entering into the family of Kṛṣṇa. So why should we be very much anxious to maintain this family. So actually... Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore says; "I'm not a sannyāsī. I'm not a sannyāsī. I'm not a gṛhastha. I'm not a brahmacārī." These four, eight varṇāśrama-dharma is unnecessary for spiritually. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was speaking with Rāmānanda Rāya... You'll find in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya... As soon as he suggested varṇāśrama-dharma, Rāmaṇanda Rāya, immediately Caitanya Mahāprabhu: "It is not very important. If you know better than this, you go on." He did not give any, much stress on this varṇāśrama-dharma.

Morning Walk -- April 6, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: ...not within the Vedic culture. Vedic culture means this varṇāśrama-dharma: four varṇas, four āśrama. And those who are lower than the śūdras, they are not in the Vedic culture. They are called caṇḍālas. Among these caṇḍālas, the mleccha, yavana, are also there. There are. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18). So they are also caṇḍālas, fifth status. Fourth status, up to śūdra, and then all fifth status. So amongst the fifth status, there are all meat-eaters, without any restriction. And there are dog-eaters. So amongst them, the fifth status, one who eats dog, he is considered most abominable.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Here material life means as soon as you violate the rules and regulation, you suffer. Therefore varṇāśrama-dharma is the beginning of perfection in material life. It is the beginning. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). God has created this. If you adopt this institution of varṇāśrama-dharma, then your perfection of life begins. (break)

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1975, Vrndavana:

Guest (1): But we have great paramparā of varṇāśrama-dharma.

Prabhupāda: So we can give them these things. We can give them these things, that spiritual emancipation, and they are appreciating. So if we make ourself in India a nice program-already they are eager to take—then they will take more and more. And that will glorify India's prestige. So everything is ready there? Oh, here. You have got that letter. You can... (end)

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: If you give up this varṇāśrama-dharma, then where is your bhāratīya sanskṛiti? But they are trying to give it up, abolish this. Then where is bhāratīya sanskṛiti? Then?

Brahmānanda: "Six: Injunctions of śāstras regarding charity and how it should be practiced in the present conditions. So the mutual relationship of dharma and politics in the light of our history and tradition can only be revived when we observe the system of varṇāśrama.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Governor: No, but while doing his profession, if he has good influence of the varṇāśrama-dharma, of the brāhmaṇa, and then he will do the work with the dedication to God and to the society.

Prabhupāda: No. Why you are suggesting that although he is a brāhmaṇa, he become a electrician. Why?

Governor: I will put it this way. He is an engineer, but I would also...

Prabhupāda: Engineer?

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Governor: And he also be influenced by the good points of varṇāśrama-dharma.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya saṁsiddhiḥ labhate naraḥ (BG 18.46). That is another way, that "I have no other means of earning livelihood." But if he becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then even though he is acting as an electrician, he is in touch with Kṛṣṇa. That is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya. That I explained in the varṇāśrama-dharma, that even though leg is leg, it is not as important as the head. But the leg is also required to keep the body in healthy condition.

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: But at present the caste system in India isn't actually representative of the original varṇāśrama dharma system. The original system was a cooperation, organized cooperation between four kinds of men which are naturally there in society. Just like now we can see that some people are working as laborers, some people are working as merchants, and some people politicians and lawyers, some are teachers. Originally they were organized so that the priests, or priestly order, were benefiting everyone by their teaching. And so that they could fully concentrate on that, they were not engaged in working for food and money. But what happened in this age, was that the higher caste became fallen, and they misused their high position, and instead of helping everyone by their teaching, they misused the position, or exploited the position, simply for selfish ends, so there became a conflict between the...

Prabhupāda: Vested interest.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No. That is a very good idea, but the leg is also required. If you simply keep the head and there is no leg, then it is incomplete. Everything is required. To keep the body fit you require head, you require arms, you require belly, you require leg. That is the system of varṇāśrama-dharma. In India you have heard that there is a class, brāhmaṇa. Now it is now broken. But this is the Vedic civilization, that one class of men should be the brāhmaṇas, first class. One class of man should be kṣatriya, the administrators, politicians. One class of man should be food producer, vaiśya. And one class of man should be laborer, who has no brain but he can assist the other three.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Harikeśa: It also seems like the only government that would work would be the Vedic government. Varnāśrama-dharma is the only thing that will work.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa conscious government means Vedic government.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We have histories that for millions of years such governments were working successfully. Now, for a few thousand years, they squabble, this type of government, that type of government.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, first of all, the government is cheating. He is giving me paper in the name of money, and forcing me to accept it.

Morning Walk -- November 17, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Why with all that glorious past and glorious culture they have to... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the principle, varṇāśrama-dharma.

varṇāśramācāravatāṁ

puruṣena paraḥ puman

viṣṇur aradhyate puṁsaṁ

nānyat tat-toṣa-kāraṇam

(CC Madhya 8.58)

Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Nanyat tat-toṣa-kāraṇam. Tat-toṣa means to satisfy Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa. They don't want to do that. They want to satisfy their senses.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 5, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Whatever direction is there, you take that. The medicine is given. Doctor gives direction. "So many drops you can take." Now you say, "Oh, the good medicine. Let me eat the whole thing. I become cured immediately." Then you die. You have to take, enjoy, but according to direction. God does not say that "You don't enjoy." You are, what is called, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). A living entity means ānandamaya, enjoyment. But that ānanda, where it is permanent ānanda, how we have to reach that permanent ānanda, that is being taught. Otherwise, you foolish, you'll eat the whole medicine and die. That's all. Therefore the varṇāśrama-dharma. Varṇāśrama-dharma means that is real human civilization. There is direction that "You enjoy like this."

Morning Walk -- February 5, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is stated in Viṣṇu Purāṇa.

varṇāśramācāra-vatā

puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān

viṣṇur ārādhyate panthā

nānyat tat-toṣa-kāraṇam

(CC Madhya 8.58)

That is said, varṇāśrama-dharma. Therefore, according to Vedic civilization, unless one comes to the regulation of varṇāśrama-dharma, that is not human civilization. That is actually the fact. That is the same dog's society. That is going on. If there is no brāhmaṇa, qualified brāhmaṇa, who will give direction? There is no... If there is no kṣatriya, then who will give protection? If there is no vaiśya, then who will produce food? And if there is no śūdra, then who will work for general assistance? This is scientific.

Morning Walk -- February 5, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Without varṇāśrama-dharma there is no civilization. Yes. They are trying to abolish this under the name of "caste system." It is not caste system. Caste system, or whatever you call, there must be these four division. Not four, eight. This is general, that brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. Then, according to the brahminical culture, the spiritual, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. And after sannyāsa, then spiritual life, complete, śuddha-sattva. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So you have to establish varṇāśrama. Varṇāśramācāra.

Morning Walk -- February 9, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No. If the society chants Hare Kṛṣṇa seriously, then it is all right. Never mind whatever is done. It doesn't matter. Pāpī tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo. This is the power of hari-saṅkīrtana. If one is absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all benefit is there. So long in the bodily concept of life, we require this varṇāśrama-dharma. Otherwise there is no necessity.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu you have read in the eighth chapter, Madhya-līlā, talk between Rāmānanda Rāya and Caitanya Mahāprabhu? So "Perfectional life how begins?" This question was raised by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and Rāmānanda replied, "It begins with the varṇāśrama-dharma, regulated social life."

Morning Walk -- February 9, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Not rejected. "Yes, it is not very important." Eho bāhya: "This is external." Āge kaha āra: "If you know something more." So the varṇāśrama-dharma is a good help undoubtedly, but it is not important for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise how could I start this movement in the Western country? There was no varṇāśrama-dharma. But that did not hamper my movement. Now people are surprised: "How these people have become such great devotees." So it was not based on varṇāśrama-dharma, no, because the whole movement is spiritual. It starts from the spiritual platform, ahaṁ brahmāsmi.

Morning Walk -- February 9, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So you can go by the bridge, and if you can jump over, that is also going. That is also going. So to become Kṛṣṇa conscious means to jump over to the spiritual platform immediately. And this varṇāśrama-dharma, sannyāsa, varṇa-tyāga, karma-tyāga, these are different steps only. But if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious seriously, then you jump over all these steps; you go immediately. That lift and the staircase. By staircase you go step by step. By lift you can go immediately, faster.

Hṛdayānanda: Even some of these women, they're not married but they are serving Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- February 9, 1976, Mayapura:

The smārtas, they are thinking like that, "How these mlecchas and yavanas can become a brāhmaṇa?" But they do not know that by Kṛṣṇa consciousness one can jump over. Māyām etāṁ taranti te. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Māyā is very strong. Therefore there are gradual process. Varṇāśrama-dharma, karma-tyāga, this, that, so many things, pious activities, rituals. But this is the process, step by step, to cross over māyā. But Kṛṣṇa said, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Anyone who surrenders to Kṛṣṇa sincerely, immediately he crosses over. As Kṛṣṇa says in another place, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi: (BG 18.66) "I'll do immediately."

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: It is very difficult to.... Sarva-dharmān—everything to give up, except Kṛṣṇa. It is very difficult. Sarva-dharmān. They are proud if they are little rich. And America is very proud. They are trying to accumulate money, and we are trying.... We say, "Give up this nonsense." Is it very easy thing, that "For Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we shall give up everything, our attempt to earn money"? Nobody will accept it. "Our industry, our trade, our opulence—everything we shall leave?" But the meaning is that. Yes. Who will take it? Jñānīs, yogis, the same thing—"Oh, I am so.... I am great yogi. So many people considers me that I am God, and I shall give up this profession?" Is it possible? Who will do it? Caitanya-caritāmṛta there is a verse, eta saba chāḍi' āra varṇāśrama-dharma, akiñcana hañā...(?) That's it. Varṇāśrama, even varṇāśrama-dharma one has to give up. (japa—break) ...department asked me, "Swamiji, how long you want to stay here?"

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Jayādvaita: At the college programs, Satsvarūpa Mahārāja and I have been giving a lot of classes on varṇāśrama-dharma. Because they always want to hear something about the Hindu caste system, so they'll take us on that basis. And then we speak about varṇāśrama-dharma. And they don't have any idea to defeat it. They always, some little weak argument, but they don't have any better system.

Prabhupāda: What is their argument?

Jayādvaita: Hardly.... Well, they have some idea, they argue that there's no social mobility, because they all have some bodily idea that caste by birth.

Prabhupāda: No, that is not the fact.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: There is no such word as Hindu religion. You do not know. There is no such word as Hindu religion, at least in the Vedas. The religion is translated into Sanskrit as "characteristic." Religion is not a kind of faith. Just like chemical composition. Sugar is sweet—that is religion. Sugar must be sweet. Sugar cannot be pungent. Or chili must be pungent. If chili is sweet, we reject it, and sugar is pungent, you reject it. Similarly, our Vedic system is to train the human being to the ultimate goal of his life. That system is called varṇāśrama-dharma, gradually training the person how to become perfect human being and understand the goal of his life. That is our activity. It is not meant for any particular sect or particular nation. No. It is meant for the whole human society, how to make them perfect in the goal of his life.

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Reporter: "What is that training process?" Prabhupāda: "That training is the varṇāśrama-dharma, a system of dividing society into four social and four spiritual orders according to people's natural quality. Divide the society according to quality and train people in the principle that everything belongs to God and should be used in the service of God. Then there really can be one nation under God."

Reporter: "But if society is divided into different groups, won't there be envy?"

Prabhupāda: "No, no. Just as in my body there are different parts that work together, so the society can have different parts working for the same goal. My hand is different from my leg, but when I tell the hand, 'Bring a glass of water,' the leg will help. The leg is required and the hand is required."

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: We were finding, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that they could not defeat varṇāśrama dharma. They had no society like varṇāśrama. In the colleges, they could not understand this body, but we showed them how the society could be arranged harmoniously, and they had no alternative. Their ideas on how to structure society for everyone's happiness, they have no good ideas. So that preaching platform they could understand, varṇāśrama.

Prabhupāda: They'll understand. I'm just pointing out the difficulties of your preaching. You'll have to face all these difficulties. They're like cats and dogs. They are not even human beings. Therefore the business is little hard job. You have to deal with cats and dogs. But still there is hope, because they have got this human form of life. There is hope.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Maunam, like in silence. Mauna-vrata-śruta-tapo-'dhvavana?

mauna-vrata-sruta-tapo-'dhyayana-sva-dharma-

vyākhya-raho-japa-samādhaya āpavargyaḥ

prāyaḥ paraṁ puruṣa te tv ajitendriyānāṁ

vārtā bhavanty uta na vātra tu dāmbhikānām

(SB 7.9.46)

"O Supreme Personality of Godhead, there are ten prescribed methods on the path to liberation—to remain silent, not to speak to anyone, to observe vows, to amass all kinds of Vedic knowledge, to undergo austerities, to study the Vedas and other Vedic literatures, to execute the duties of varṇāśrama-dharma, to explain the śāstras, to stay in a solitary place, to chant mantras silently, and to be absorbed in trance. These different methods for liberation are generally only a professional practice and means of livelihood..."

Prabhupāda: Means of livelihood.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The charge is false. Those who have charged like that, they do not know what is Hinduism. There is no such thing as Hinduism, but there is mention of sanātana-dharma, varṇāśrama-dharma. That we can find in the scriptures. I've already given note.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I have that.

Prabhupāda: So what is his, what is the charge?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He says that people are accusing that Hinduism, it inhibits the progress of mankind.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, no. They are misguided. First of all, the Hinduism is also misguiding. There is no such thing as Hinduism. It is sanātana-dharma and varṇāśrama-dharma. I do not know how this word... Most probably it was given by the Mohammedans, "Hindus." But there is no such thing. In Bhagavad-gītā I don't find any word as "Hindu." Is there any word? Throughout the whole? There is no such thing.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There's a second part to this question also, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They ask: if it's false that actually Hinduism is not fatalistic or sanātana-dharma is not fatalistic...

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So far Vedic religion is concerned, it is not for the Hindus. That is to be understood. The sanātana-dharma. It is for all living entities, all human beings. It is called sanātana-dharma. That I have already explained. The living entity is sanātana, God is sanātana, and there is sanātana-dharma. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). And where Kṛṣṇa is described sanātana in the Eleventh Chapter. Do you remember? He is described as sanātana. Sanātanam. So actually, the Vedic system is called sanātana-dharma. Not Hindu dharma. This is a wrong conception. The sanātana-dharma is meant for all living entities, not the so-called Hindus, Muslims, Christians. For everyone. That is sanātana-dharma. These are later misconceptions, Hinduism and this ism, that ism, that ism. Actually, it is called sanātana-dharma, or varṇāśrama-dharma.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Otherwise, it has no Vedic reference. So this Hindu dharma has no Vedic reference. The real Vedic dharma is sanātana-dharma, varṇāśrama-dharma. First of all he has to understand this. Now that sanātana-dharma, or Vedic dharma, being distorted, not being obeyed, not being carried properly, it has come to the understanding of Hinduism. That is a freak understanding. That is not real understanding. We have to study sanātana-dharma or varṇāśrama-dharma. Then we'll understand what is Vedic religion.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But India, they have given up the real religious system, sanātana-dharma, or varṇāśrama-dharma. Fictitiously, they have accepted a hodgepodge thing which is called Hinduism. Therefore there is trouble. Everywhere, but India especially, they are... Vedic religion... Vedic religion means varṇāśrama-dharma. That is... Kṛṣṇa says, God says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). So that is, what is called, obligatory. Just like law is obligatory. You cannot say that "I don't take this law." No. You have to take it if you want to have a happy. You cannot become outlaw. Then you'll not be happy. You'll be punished. So God says mayā sṛṣṭam. "It is given by Me." So how we can deny it? And that is religion.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: We have already refuted. There is no such thing as Hinduism in the Vedic conception. It is sanātana-dharma or varṇāśrama-dharma.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is sanātana-dharma so wide that everyone can be...

Prabhupāda: Sanātana means eternal. So na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The identification of the living entity is already described, that it does not perish after annihilation of this body. That is sanātana. So that is meant for everyone. Not that the Hindus, after giving up this body, exist, and the Muslim or Christian does not exist. Everyone exists. Everyone is eternal, so sanātana-dharma is meant for everyone.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually it is the way. That, I have already described it. It is not a sectarianism like Muslimism, Christianism or "Thisism..." Hinduism also now one of them. Actually, it is a way of life, varṇāśrama-dharma, how to become elevated to the spiritual platform. So that begins by the varṇāśrama-dharma, to select persons according to his capacity to different varṇas. Some of them selected, trained as brāhmaṇas. Some of them trained as kṣatriya, some of them as vaiśya, some of them as, remain... Those who cannot take any training, they are śūdras. So in the ways (indistinct) there must be social division not by birth, but by education. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13).

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Those who cannot take any training, they are śūdras. So in the ways (indistinct) there must be social division not by birth, but by education. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). That we have lost. The so-called Hinduism they have lost. And because they did not follow real varṇāśrama-dharma, therefore India, so many renegades, Muslim became... Once they become Muslim, there was no reformation. But according to Vedic principle, even one is fallen, he can be raised to the highest standard. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32).

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā

varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ

svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya

saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam

(SB 1.2.13)

Everyone is engaged in his occupational duties. Everyone is engaged. Generally according to Vedic civilization, the society is divided into eight divisions. Varṇāśrama-dharma it is called-four varṇas and four āśramas. Materially, four varṇas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. And spiritually, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is the defect of the modern civilization, that they do not care to know who is God and how to satisfy Him. That is the defect. The life is meant for, human life, for satisfying God. That is going on under religious system, and the Vedic civilization is called varṇāśrama-dharma. Dharma is not a kind of faith, religion is not a kind of faith, but it is a duty, varṇāśrama-dharma. So that duty we are forgetting. And therefore we are coming to the level of animals. Because the cats and dogs, they have no duty-animal. But human being has an obligation, a duty to understand God and to satisfy Him. That is human life. Without this knowledge, without this performance of duty, human life is on the level of animals. There are many other verses in this connection. Where are others? They are not present here?

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Just like... These are all discussed in the Bhagavad-gītā, what kind of social arrangement should be. That... It is called varṇāśrama-dharma. A brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha—these are different groups, and if they are favorably trained up then spiritual understanding becomes very easy.

Interviewer: Can you tell me a little bit about the future direction of the movement, how you plan to expand.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Real Vedic principle is called varṇāśrama. Observing the principle of four varṇas. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya. It is a very long science. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. This is called varṇa. And brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. This is called āśrama. So the Vedic civilization is called varṇāśrama-dharma, not Hindu dharma. This is later contribution of the so-called scholars.

Interviewer: Well ah, I thank you very much for your time, your Grace, and I'm glad I finally got acquainted with you. I missed you in Brooklyn.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Therefore we are trying to introduce the varṇāśrama system, although it is very difficult nowadays. But if one becomes a devotee, which is above varṇāśrama-dharma, then the purpose is solved. In this age, although varṇāśrama-dharma is very scientific, and Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement includes this, but we are mostly trying to get to the topmost part of varṇāśrama, sannyāsa, or above that. That means Vaiṣṇava. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). One can immediately transcend the jurisdiction of three modes of material nature if he engages himself in the devotional service of the Lord.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: The almost the whole world, and all civilizations, look down upon the varṇāśrama-dharma as a system in which hierarchical and stratified conditions prevent human beings from progressing. They think of our system as...

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is progress. That I was talking with your Associated Press, press reporter. Just like they do not know that their material life means they are in the prison house for being punished. They are so dull headed they are taking the activities of punishment as regular life. A man is put into the prison house, and his engagement is breaking the bricks.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Yes, they do that. They are employing in their factory, big, big chemist, big, big physicist, engineer and so on, but they do not bother. They are paying thirty thousand rupees per month salary, Birla. Expert, imported from foreign country, but their sons are never troubled. They know how to utilize that worker of thirty thousand rupees per month and to earn thirty lakhs from him. Why shall he waste his time? He knows how to they earn. They pay a man thirty thousand and through him earn thirty lakhs. Actually, in order to make a balanced society, the varṇāśrama-dharma is very important, cooperation. So these things are meant for the śūdras, and brāhmaṇas are not meant for this.

Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: The varṇāśrama-dharma, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, this is plan just to teach the whole society how to perform yajña. Varṇāśramācāra-vatā. Therefore this is the beginning of human civilization. Varṇāśrama. How to return back. Just like Bali Mahārāja. Bali Mahārāja achieved, obtained, throughout the universe all the property, and he again returned to Vāmana. That was his success of life. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is an educational movement to teach people how one should voluntarily return the property of the Lord to the Lord. That is called yajña. Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9).

Room Conversation -- November 20, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, if the brain is clear—it is not filled up with rubbish cow dung—then Kṛṣṇa consciousness easy. Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means there is no more material consciousness. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). That is required. In material existence we have got so many obligations, thoughts (indistinct), and so many things. Bṛthā.

eta saba chāḍi' āra varṇāśrama-dharma

akiñcana hañā laya kṛṣṇaika-śaraṇa

Sarva-dharmān: Everything give up. That is India's Vedic civilization. They are not concerned with the material advancement. Simple life. That's all.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is within you. If you actually want to serve Kṛṣṇa, he'll give you intelligence. He says personally, dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ tam. What kind of?—yena mām upayānti te. So it is automatically available if you are sincerely desiring to serve Kṛṣṇa. Na toṣana chādiyā varṇāśrama-dharma. (break)

Girirāja: So today... Actually I was thinking of phoning his wife because she was not well or one of our ladies could call her and then if she's still not well they could go and visit her. And if she is well, they could invite her that if she wants to come then she'll bring him.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Chanting will go on. That is not stopped. But at the same time the varṇāśrama-dharma must be established to make the way easy.

Hari-śauri: Well, at least my own understanding was that the chanting was introduced in the age of Kali because varṇāśrama is not possible.

Prabhupāda: Because it will cleanse the mind. Chanting will not stop.

Hari-śauri: So therefore the chanting was introduced to replace all of the systems of varṇāśrama and like that.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Thākaha āpanāra kāje, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Āpanāra kāja ki. Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommended, sthāne sthitaḥ. And if they do not remain in the sthāna, then the sahajiyā's chanting will come. Just like the sahajiyās also have got the beads and..., but they have got three dozen women. This kind of chanting will go on. Just like our (name withheld). He was not fit for sannyāsa but he was given sannyāsa. And five women he was attached, and he disclosed. Therefore varṇāśrama-dharma is required. Simply show-bottle will not do. So the varṇāśrama-dharma should be introduced all over the world, and...

Satsvarūpa: Introduced starting with ISKCON community?

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: ...then how will we be able to make divisions in our society?

Prabhupāda: Vaiṣṇava is not so easy. The varṇāśrama-dharma should be established to become a Vaiṣṇava. It is not so easy to become Vaiṣṇava.

Hari-śauri: No, it's not a cheap thing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore this should be made. Vaiṣṇava, to become Vaiṣṇava, is not so easy. If Vaiṣṇava, to become Vaiṣṇava is so easy, why so many fall down, fall down? It is not easy. The sannyāsa is for the highest qualified brāhmaṇa. And simply by dressing like a Vaiṣṇava, that is... fall down.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. In the... For the big scale, this is the required. In big scale you cannot make all of them as brāhmaṇas or sannyāsīs. No. That is not possible. This is a small scale. How many percentage of people of the world we are controlling? Very insignificant. But if you want to make the whole human society perfect, then this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement should be introduced according to the Kṛṣṇa's instruction, if you want to do it in a large scale for the benefit of the whole human society. Now we are picking up some of them, best. That is another thing. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu said para-upakāra. Why a certain section should be picked up? The whole mass of people will get the benefit of it. Then it is required, systematic. Sve sve karmaṇy abhirataḥ saṁsiddhiṁ labhate naraḥ. Para-upakāra means mass benefit, not there is certain section. Then we have to introduce this varṇāśrama-dharma.

Conversation with Tamala Krsna about Yadubara -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Then we would show how Lord Kṛṣṇa's teachings are still manifest in India today by the nine devotional processes and the predominant role Kṛṣṇa plays in the culture and religious life of the people in temple worship, painting, dance, music and lifestyle, including offering and taking prasādam, varṇāśrama-dharma, etc... Then testimonials could be given by prominent supporters of our movement and perhaps a short statement by Your Divine Grace..."

Prabhupāda: There is some big, big temples and their proprietor... In every city there are so many Kṛṣṇa temples. Just like in Kanpur there is very important Dvārakādhīśa temple. Many such big cities they have got Kṛṣṇa's pastimes(?).

Evening Darsana -- May 13, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Real care should be taken of the soul within the body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Dehinaḥ, dehī. Dehinaḥ and deha. So anyone who is identifying with this body in either... According to Vedic civilization, the bodily identification is divided into eight: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. Varṇāśrama-dharma. So human civilization begins, according to Vedic understanding, when there is varṇāśrama system. Otherwise it is not human civilization. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). This system should be followed. Then, gradually, one has to come to the spiritual. Chaotic society cannot help us.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So kāmasya na indriya-prītiḥ. You require some sense gratification not for the senses, but because you have got a bad bargain, this body, just to maintain it, not more than. That is varṇāśrama-dharma. So there are so many problems we have created. They do not understand. And this civilization are simply gratifying senses, so dangerous. And dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). And they create a position by very, very hard labor, and the body is changed. Then śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). What benefit you get? This life, you make a skyscraper building, three dozen cars, and next life, you become a dog. Then what is your profit? What do you gain? They do not gain anything. So that change of body is in nature's hand. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). That is not in your hand.

Talk About Varnasrama, S.B. 2.1.1-5 -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Then he... Father-mother knows that he'll take care of his life automatically. And the boy and the girl are not allowed to mix with second girl, second boy. They are kept strictly. And when they're grown up, they're allowed to mix and the affection becomes firm. These are psychology. It is the psychology of woman that before puberty, if she has got a boy, she loves forever. She'll never be unchaste. So these marriage things are done very psychologically, scientifically, so that they may become happy, and then, in peaceful mind, combine together, good cooperation, they make progress, spiritual. This is the plan, varṇāśrama-dharma. Very scientific. And Kṛṣṇa says, "I am that." Whatever Kṛṣṇa shall give-perfect. Nobody cares. They are suffering.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So that fortune is... By fortune he gets a guru. And by the instruction of guru he gets Kṛṣṇa. So to create fortune we have to take this regulative principle, to become fortunate that someday he'll be able to meet somebody who is real guru and who will give him real guidance. "Man is the architect of his own fortune." Therefore pious activities and other things, yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-kriyā, these things are recommended, to acquire the qualities of brāhmaṇa. These things are required. If he remains like animal, that fortune will never come. This is the architecture. So that fortune begins when he enters the varṇāśrama-dharma, four varṇas and four āśramas. That is a easiest way. Fortune does not come that "This is very important. Man is the architect of his own fortune."

Room Conversation Varnasrama -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's what I... Similarly, weaver, that cloth weaving, "kat, kat." The wife is spinning, her husband is weaving, the children is weaving, and combinedly at the end of the day there is a cloth. And people were satisfied with simple necessities. They would not charge very much for the labor. And one nice cloth requires half a pound cotton. Half a pound cotton means maybe one rupee. Another one rupee for the labor. So now they are paying twenty to thirty rupees. Unnecessarily he has to earn this money and pay to the millionaires, and he will keep three dozen motorcars, so another man will be engaged in motorcar industry. In this way time is being wasted without any search after spiritual realization. Time is wasted in such so-called technology advancement. And the real purpose of life, jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā, that is missing. And when you present that "This is the most important business of life," they say, "It is brainwashing." And they fight to check us, Communists and others, that "It is useless, God consciousness." (break) (long pause) So... Jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu. Because they are missing the aim of life, they are committing suicide. And this varṇāśrama-dharma was planned in such a way that everyone would be spiritually advanced.