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Unless there is... (Conversations 1971 - 1975)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: That is stated, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ: "In this age practically all men will be śūdras." That is... That is predicted. But if there are simply śūdras, then the social order will be destroyed. You... Just like in spite of your state of śūdras, a brāhmaṇa is found here. And that is necessity. So if you do not divide the social order in such a way, then there will be chaos. that is the scientific estimation of the Vedas. You may... You may belong for the time being to the śūdra class, but to maintain the social order you have to train some of the śūdras to become brāhmaṇa, some of the śūdras to become kṣatriyas. You cannot depend on the śūdras. Then there will be chaos. Neither you can depend only on brāhmaṇa. Just like to fulfill the necessities of your body there must be a portion called the brain, there must be a portion called the arms, there must be a portion called the stomach, or the belly, and there must be a portion which is called the leg. The leg is also required, the brain is also required, the arm is also required—for cooperation, to fulfill the mission of the whole body. So any, any society you conceive, unless there are these four divisions, there will be chaos. It will be, not be properly, I mean to say, going on, smoothly going on. There will be some disturbance. Brain must be there. So at the present moment there is scarcity of brain. I am not talking of your state or my state. I am taking the world as it is. The brain... Formerly the Indian administration was going on in monarchy. Just like this picture. This picture is a kṣatriya king. Before his death he renounced his, I mean to say, royal order and he came to the forest to hear about self-realization. So if you want to maintain the peace and prosperity of the whole worldly social order, you must create a class of men very intelligent, a class of men very expert in administration, a class of men very expert in production, and a class of men to work. That is required. You cannot avoid it. That is the Vedic conception. Mukha-bāhūru-padebhyaḥ. They say, mukha... Mukha means the face. Bahu means the arm. Uru means this, this, or waist. And pada. So anywhere, either you take this state or that state—doesn't matter—unless there is a smooth, systematic establishment of these four orders of life, the state or the society will not go very smoothly.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Energy. So in that sense, if it is God's energy there is nothing material. It is material when we forget God. That is material.

Dr. Weir: Well I would have said... You're rather going back to the analogy of the light. If there's no light there you can't see whether there's anything there or not. Directly you have the light it enables you to see it. But the things exist independent of whether the light was there all along.

Prabhupāda: Light is in relationship with the fire. So light is not different from the fire. Unless there is fire there is no light. There is no heat. So as soon as you feel heat or see light the fire is there. In higher sense those who can realize immediately realize that there is fire. Just like here there's light. Immediately you can understand there is fire. There is electricity. So it is a question of realization. In the higher realization there is nothing matter. Everything is spiritual. Simply when you forget God that is material. That is material.

Śyāmasundara: By using this analogy he's proving that there's a contingency. There's a... that wherever there's heat and wherever there's light there must be fire.

Dr. Weir: With respect, no, because you can have an infra-red (indistinct) which is not fire.

Śyāmasundara: The original source is fire.

Dr. Weir: Or ultra-violet, no.

Prabhupāda: How can you explain light without fire?

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is secondary.

Bob: Excuse me?

Prabhupāda: That is secondary. That is not very difficult. Just like this Mālatī made purī. So there is flour and there is ghee, and she made purī, but unless there is ghee and flour, where is the chance of making purī? (pause) In the Bhagavad-gītā there is this, "Water, earth, air, fire, they are made of My energy."

Bob: Made of, what is that?

Prabhupāda: "My energy."

Bob: Ah.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali?) What is your body. This external body, that is your energy. Do you know that? The body is made out of your own energy. Just like I am eating.

Bob: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: So I am creating some energy, and therefore my body is maintained.

Bob: Oh, I see.

Prabhupāda: So therefore your body is made out of your energy.

Bob: But when you eat the food, there is energy from the sun in the food...

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Change, I say. How the changes take place? You are changing. You are changing from your childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood. So there is a plan. Unless there is plan, why one child is not, by chance, becomes immediately old. What the nonsense will reply? Let the rascal reply this, that here is a chance, that one child immediately becomes old man, by chance. Why there is process? This is plan. So you should have depth of knowledge, otherwise you will be carried away by these rascals. We cannot be carried away by these rascals. We never so easily believed that they are going to the moon planet. You see? We have to scrutinize everything. Yes. That is brahminical qualification. A brāhmaṇa will not accept anything simply because it is said by some rascal. A śūdra will accept because he has no intelligence. That is the difference between brāhmaṇa and śūdra. It is not a caste system. It is classi..., guṇa karma vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), division of high qualities and actual activities according to that quality. They misinterpreted. Because by the influence of Kali-yuga everyone is śūdra, so he does not know what is the actually brahminical qualification. Therefore there is, I mean to say, competition: "Why this man should be done?(known?) I am as good as he is, and why he should be called brāhmaṇa? He should be given greater facility?" So actually it has happened so. A so-called brāhmaṇa, caste brāhmaṇa, he is working his intelligence like śūdra, and he is claiming, by birthright, brāhmaṇa. There must be protest. This has happened. Otherwise, that division is perfect, guṇa karma vibhāgaśaḥ. Anyone who comes to that quality, he becomes brāhmaṇa. That is the injunction of the śāstra. Kṛṣṇa says guṇa karma vibhāgaśaḥ. You have no qualification, you do not work according to your quality, and why you are claiming a brāhmaṇa? That is self-evident. Guṇa karma vibhāga. He never said by birth, never said. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. "In this age, Kali-yuga, all śūdras." Therefore they accept everything cheaply and at once, the śūdras.

Śyāmasundara: Cheaply and at once?

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is the imitation of the ideal.

Jayatīrtha: Some people are trying to make it ideal, trying to make this place ideal.

Prabhupāda: There must be something ideal; otherwise how they will try to make it ideal? They are trying to be immortal. Unless there is something immortal, how they...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The actual ideality is there.

Prabhupāda: That is explained in Bhāgavatam: satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi (SB 1.1.1). Finally proof.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: If there would be no ideality, the scientists cannot think about ideality itself.

Devotee (1): (indistinct) think about the concept of living eternally because this was the teaching of the church that I was going to. And I used to become very frightened at having to go on and on forever because I couldn't imagine what I'd be doing during all that time. I used to try to put some end to it all. Now in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we understand that eternity is filled up with ideal activities and that eternal life is very blissful and full of knowledge. This concept is not there in any other teaching. (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: The scientist says there is no life after death.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, they do not know that. They do not say also, they do not know that. They do not say that there is not life after death because they do not know.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, you are rascal, you have rascal's history. We are not rascal; we have got another history. Why shall I accept your history? You are rascal. You be satisfied with the history that your great grandfather and his father used to live in the cave. But we don't accept. Our forefather used to live in palace. Sixteen thousand palaces, Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) So you rascal, you live with your own history. Why you force your rascaldom history upon us? We are not going to accept. We get history from five thousand years ago. You have no history beyond three thousand years. But we give the shortest history, five thousand years ago, Kṛṣṇa. And how much intelligent from historical point of view Kṛṣṇa was. We can understand from His instruction, Bhagavad-gītā. It is not that because we are Kṛṣṇaites we are canvassing. The whole world is reading Bhagavad-gītā. Why, unless there is intelligence? All scholars, all religionists, all philosophers, they are giving attention to Bhagavad-gītā. So how you can say Kṛṣṇa was living in the cave? Your forefather might be living in a cave, but our forefather did not live in a cave but palaces. Your forefather is a monkey, according to that history.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So people completely lack the real knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is why they give all these books. When we started school, we are taught with these..., or we are supplied with this information right from the beginning, the history of mankind and then how this started. So they give all this information.

Prabhupāda: Stone Age. What is that, Stone Age? And before that?

Jayatīrtha: Dinosaurs.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 25, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But we know that there is a shadow. So there must be a real object.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless there is real object, there cannot be shadow. Now the sky is clouded. We cannot see above the cloud. Does it mean there is nothing? If somebody: "Oh, there is nothing (indistinct)"

Brahmānanda: All we have to do is fly up there, and it's bright as sun.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Somehow we have to remove the covering.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) We don't give any credit to any man if he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is our final conclusion. We can give credit so much, as you have got. Just like you are a driver. So I can give you the credit of a driver. But I cannot give you the credit of a high-court judge. So much, what you know, that much credit...

Brahmānanda: Future.

Prabhupāda: Yes. When in future you become high-court judge, then I shall give you credit. Why before you want to take credit?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So one has to have certain qualifications.

Morning Walk -- April 29, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Duality, not so expressive. Relative. In relation to other. That is the exact. Why duality? There are so many.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Opposite, one opposite to the other.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Just the opposite. Yes. You cannot understand light without darkness. This is relative. Unless there is darkness, how you can say: "This is light"? So opposite, you can say opposite. Now this, this knowledge is there. Everyone knows. But where is that absolute where the bad and good, the black and white, everything coincides? That is absolute. Everything is there. That is not distinction. Everything is there. That is called absolute. Brahman. That means, Brahman means the biggest. Now when you speak something big, so everything is included. Big means bad and good, everything is included. Otherwise, how it can be big? Big means... Just like if you, when you speak of Los Angeles, so there are so many things, bad and good, in Los Angeles, all included. Is it not? So Brahman means bṛhattva, being the largest. The largest means it contains everything. Just like the sky. We have got the idea. The sky means it, it, it contains everything universal. This is the idea of greatest. So athāto brahma jijñāsā means we are now studying the relative truth. I'm studying black. You're studying white. He's studying another, another. In this way. Partial. But what is that biggest thing which includes everything? That is called brahma-jijñāsā, to inquire about that thing. Just like you are studying chemistry. We are studying Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But there is something which contains the chemistry, Kṛṣṇa consciousness and everything. That is called Brahman. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The animal life the subject matter, a small animal, he's concerned where to eat, where to sleep, where to find my food, shelter. This is their business, no other business. They're not concerned with the biggest thing. But this human form of life is to inquire about the biggest. That includes everything. So next code is: Janmādyasya yataḥ. That biggest thing is the original source of everything, wherefrom everything has come. How to know that? Śāstra-yonitvāt. You have to learn it from the Vedas. In this way, sūtras are given, one after another. What is the nature of that thing? Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). In this way, all codes are there. And go on, searching, one after another, you get full knowledge of the greatest, Absolute Truth. This is Vedānta. What is that ship?

Morning Walk -- May 1, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, energy. Yac cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala grahāṇām. Sun is working under the order of... Just like if you don't see the managing director or the proprietor of a firm, the immediate boss who is controlling you, you have to obey. In the office or in the factory. Similarly, you cannot see directly God, but God's agent is working. Why don't you obey? God's agent is working? How it is working? Yasyājñayā bhramati saṁbhṛta-kāla-cakraḥ, exactly in time by the order of Kṛṣṇa, rising exactly in the time, without any deviation even by 1/10,000th part of a second, astrological calculation. Is it not? So how it is working? Under whose order it is working? Śāstra says, "By the order of Kṛṣṇa." Yasya ājñayā. "Under whose order he is working," govindam ādi-puruṣam, "I worship that Govinda." The śāstra is giving you information, that he is working under, he must be working under... Otherwise why it is so accurate, so punctual, unless there is some direction? Unless there is order of God, why this big ocean is so obedient, it is not coming here? Why don't you study like this? Where is the difficulty? There must be some direction that "You Pacific Ocean, you are so big, that's all right, but you cannot come here. Remain up to this." Otherwise why you are feeling so safety although in the front of a big ocean. If the ocean likes, within a second, he can finish us immediately. But she will not do, because there is order. Similarly sun. Sun is also moving under the order. You have to study like that. If you do not see God, see how God's order is being carried out. Then you will understand. Just like we do not see President Nixon. But you know there is direction, and the government is going is going on under his direction. That we can know. This is seeing of God to see how things are going on under His order. That is seeing of God. Just like from long distant place like this hills, we are seeing, but at the same time not seeing distinctly. You are seeing those, but you do not see the detail.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now we can simply study the beautiful flower, and we can come to God consciousness. How it is made, so beautiful, unless there is brain? And what is that brain? Then you come to God. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svā-bhāvikī-jñāna-bala-kriyā ca (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). Para, the Supreme, has got so nice brain that things are happening as if natural. But no, the brain is acting, brain is acting. But His energy and brain is so nice that He hasn't got to do it personally. As soon as He desires, immediately the energy works. Just like nowadays electronic. So simply by pushing one bud, a button, thousands of business is done immediately. So if it is materially possible, just we have to think how much it is great and possible by spiritual energy. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate, na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. These are the Vedic description. God hasn't got to do anything with His hands. Just like here also. A big man, he has got secretaries, officers. He simply directs, "Do this," everything is done. Similarly, the Supreme Lord, how much energy He has got, and spiritual energy, that as soon as He desires something, immediately it is done. But it is done by employing energy. Not that it has come for nothing. No. This flower, it grows. There is energy. First of all, it was bud. But we cannot see how it is growing. But the act, action is going on. Therefore it is called svā-bhāvikī-jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. There is knowledge, there is brain, there is activity. Everything is there. But it is so quick and subtle, we cannot see. We say it is nat..., it has grown naturally. No. There is brain. How nicely it is done. Whatever color is suitable, it is there. So without color, without that brush, without that brain, without that energy, how it has come? How we can think of? Even if you make an artificial flower, oh, you have to take so many colors, you have to take brush, you have to apply your brain. So it has no brain behind? Simply explaining "nature." What is that nature? The nature is the brain of Kṛṣṇa. So those who can study, they can study even from this flower what is the greatness of God. This is God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everything he sees the hand of God. That is God consciousness. And when a man becomes God conscious, then he's qualified with all good qualities.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: First-class. That is the beginning. But we go above the first-class. (break) Similarly, socially also, you must have four divisions. The reason is the material nature is working under three divisions, goodness, passion and ignorance. In our body also, the brain is working under goodness quality. The arm is working under the influence of passion. The belly is working in between passion and ignorance. And the leg is working under ignorance. Leg cannot work unless there is direction by the brain. At the present moment, the society's working under the influence of passion and ignorance. The brain is lacking now. Therefore we are creating Kṛṣṇa conscious men who has got real brain. Intelligent class of men. So other classes of men who are acting under influence of passion and ignorance, they should take direction from us. And for our directing business, we don't charge anything. And if they follow our direction, they have no loss.

Bhagavān: It can be tested.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore this movement is the most important movement. For giving direction, we don't charge, and by following our direction, they don't lose anything. So why not make an experiment and see the result? The result is already there. Any intelligent man can see. It is not bluff.

Bhagavān: We are living, sixty, seventy people in this house, cooperatively, like this. That is a very great thing.

Prabhupāda: And they are living very happily. You can see from their face. Yes. They are known as bright-faced. Yes. Many, I mean, Christian priests, they came to congratulate me: "Swamiji, how you have made your disciples so jolly and bright-faced?" The government in America, they are surprised, that even after spending millions of dollars, they could not drive away LSD intoxication. And as soon as a intoxicated person comes to our camp, he not only gives up LSD and liquor, he gives up even smoking, drinking tea and coffee. So why not experiment this movement. The greatest socialist movement. If you want to get the socialistic idea, we can give you. Would you like to take?

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: It is a question of taste. Just see birds, two kinds of birds, crows and the swans, different taste. Therefore we are trying to create taste for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then these crows' place, newspaper, we'll not... We don't read newspaper. We don't touch it unless there is some news of ours. We don't touch it. What is the use of wasting time? They read so big, big bundle of newspaper. But we don't touch them. Oh, we have got (indistinct) literature here. Why should we waste our time in the crows' manifestation? The same politics, same Nixon, same Dixon, same Hitler. It is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed. Things which have already been chewed and thrown away, another person is crying, "Let me see if there's any juice." But you have already chewed. What juice you find there? Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), again and again, same politics, same new leader, same he's a rascal. Just like Nixon advertises in news, "America now requires Nixon." So America accepted him and now America doesn't want him. Again another Nixon will come. This is going on, punaḥ punaḥ, again and again, chewing the chewed. The people are not disgusted but we have tasted all these rascals. Why another Nixon?

Dr. Hauser: There doesn't seem to be any accumulation of knowledge.

Morning Walk -- December 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Queen of Greece. This cloth is very inconvenient... (break) ...illusion. Accepting this illusion, wherefrom the idea came? Just like in the tailor's window, there are nice beautiful women or men standing. That is illusion. Actually, that is neither man or woman. It is doll. But wherefrom the idea came of this illusion?

Hṛdayānanda: Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Unless there is a real man, a real woman, how the illusory man and woman is there, doll? Illusion means which is not fact. So the fact must be there; otherwise how the illusion, reflection, comes? Illusion is exemplified by the mirage, water in the desert. So the man is or the animal is running after water, but that is not water. This is illusion. But that does not mean there is no water. This is the conclusion. Unless there is real water, how... (aside) You can give around here. How this illusion of water is there?

Bali Mardana: Does that mean it is not possible to conceive of something that does not exist somewhere?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the real fact.

Karandhara: Some of them say that Brahman creates illusion to forget that he is Brahman. They say that Brahman, the one, creates illusion to forget that he's Brahman. That's his līlā.

Prabhupāda: It is līlā. Then you have to accept that Brahman is a person.

Karandhara: Well, they say there is only one person. There's no varieties of persons.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But you have to accept the origin, the person. That is our philosophy. Then you accept our philosophy.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Because they are not leader, perfect leader. With imperfect knowledge they become leader. Therefore we... Our process is to accept a leader who is perfect. That is our process. And the others, fools, they accept a leader who is not perfect. But either we or they, they must accept a leader. The only difference is that we accept the perfect leader and they accept the imperfect leader. Therefore they are cheated.

Prajāpati: They will not accept the conception of perfection. They say, "We do not accept this term perfection."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because they are fools, therefore they are fooled. Unless there is conception of perfection, why do you change leader? Why do you make revolution?

Prajāpati: The lesser of two evils.

Karandhara: They accept the conception, but they don't accept the reality of it.

Prabhupāda: No. Reality, because they do not know. They have been always been misguided by rascals. Therefore they cannot think of that there can be perfection. This is called skepticism. Because everyone is faulty, therefore there is no knowledge. This is skeptism. But real knowledge is that as I see this man is intelligent that man, that man is intelligent than that man, therefore there is an ideal intelligent man which we could not find. And that is God. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1).

Karandhara: Just like when they go and excavate a city under the ground, an old city, they see that so many things were built, and they say, "Oh, these people were very intelligent." Although they never saw the person, they saw the civilization in the...

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Well, in politics, unless there is violence, you cannot take. Simply by sweet words, not possible. That was the difference between our political leaders, Mahatma Gandhi and Subhash Chandra Bose. So Subhash Chandra Bose was of opinion that—and that is a fact—that "You are agitating non-violence. These people will never care for your non-violence. Unless there is violence, so these Britishers will never go away." So Gandhi would say, "No, I am not going to accept this violence theory. I shall continue." So for thirty years... He started from 1917 and up to '47, the Britishers did not go. But when Subhash Chandra Bose, he saw... He took the political power. He became the president. But Gandhi was angry. So because he was old leader, out of respect, he resigned the presidentship. Then he though that "So long this man will live, there will be no independence." So he went out of India and joined with Hitler, and Tojo, Japanese.

Nitāi: Who went out of India?

Prabhupāda: This Subhash Chandra Bose. And he organized the INA, Indian National Army. So when this Indian National Army was organized and the Britishers... They were great politicians. They saw, "Now the army is going to national movement. We cannot be." Then they left. Because it was not possible. They were maintaining British Empire with Indian money, Indian men. You see? They did not conquer by their British soldiers all round the Far East, Burma and the Mesopotamia, and the Egypt. That was Indian army, the Sikh soldiers and the Gurkha soldiers, and Indian money. On the pretext that "For Indian protection, we are maintaining this army." Actually, they were expanding their empire. Africa, Burma. And when they saw that "India is lost," voluntarily they liquidated all others. Went back... Back to home, back to Godhead. (devotees laugh) So in politics this is nonsense, non-violence. It is nonsense, cowardism. In politics in sweet words you cannot get. There must be fight, arms.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1974, Los Angeles:

Devotee: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: But we are feeling new pleasure in every moment. Take any other chanting, you cannot chant more than few hours. But the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra we can chant perpetually. So unless there is new enlightenment, how we can do that? (break) You can preach here, and then we are starting on the..., by the fourteenth. We shall go together to India. Is that all right? What do you think?

Karandhara: Are you bringing your boys over there?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Gurukṛpā: They're going separate.

Karandhara: Oh.

Gurukṛpā: If we go the other way it's cheaper.

Prabhupāda: Which way?

Karandhara: Through New York.

Prabhupāda: (break) I cannot go there. You see? As if three hundred miles away.

Gurukṛpā: (break) We saw from the plane.

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: Well, it was a very big issue several years ago. They used to have a prayer at the beginning of each school day. But then one demoniac lady, one atheist, she, by her, simply by her will-power got the Supreme Court to rule that unconstitutional. Now prayers are not allowed in schools anymore unless we make an amendment to the constitution, saying "Yes, we can have a prayer in school." Then it would be allowed.

Prabhupāda: Even prayers are allowed, unless there is scientific knowledge of God, that will not help. The prayer's still going on in the churches, but what improvement? They have become hackneyed. It requires training.

Prajāpati: Then our political campaign should be educating the people in general as much as possible in the principles of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is taking a chance to educate people.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We may not be successful in the beginning, but it is a good way of preaching, exposing to the general mass.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Nara-nārāyaṇa: As they elect the congressmen generally to solve different social problems which are existing in the society, so in our campaigning process, should we try to show them practical application of the philosophy for solving all their social problems, or should we preach philosophically?

Prabhupāda: No. We should preach that "Stop these things. No illicit sex, no gambling, no meat-eating." Practically you teach them. This is the real social problem.

Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest: From Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest: Unless there is an adverse report from Delhi.

Yaśomatīnandana: Delhi.

Guest: You see if there is any report from the Delhi, from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, against this movement, because being Americans...

Prabhupāda: No, they are against this movement, that I have got many proofs.

Guest: But if they will logically...

Prabhupāda: Logic, there is no logic.

Guest: No, but what I say. If they are appeased...

Prabhupāda: Argumentum baculam. Their logic is sword.

Guest: No, but what I say... The basic problem is that if the center is against, if the (indistinct) man, is against...

Prabhupāda: That I know that they are against.

Guest: If the (indistinct) men is against, therefore they are disclosing their weakness.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: In this way, from Vedas, from guru, from saintly persons, we have to understand. Sādhu guru śāstra vākya. Sādhu means who speaks strictly on the śāstra. Guru also speaks strictly on śāstra. Śāstra is the medium. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ, na siddhim avāpno... (BG 16.23). Therefore we protest. Unless there is something mentioned in the authorized śāstras we don't accept it.

Guest (1): Is it nityaḥ anityānām or nityaḥ nityānām?

Prabhupāda: Nityo nityānām. Plural number.

Dr. Patel: Plural, yes.

Guest (1): No, no, that's right.

Prabhupāda: Plural number.

Guest (1): Permanent. Permanent, impermanent.

Prabhupāda: Both of them permanent. No, no, no. Permanent... The jīvas and the Supreme Lord, both of them are permanent, nityā. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Just like nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam. It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam. Eternal, always existing. And this material word has been described: asasvataḥ. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvataḥ.

Dr. Patel: Aśāśvatam.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Because he comes: paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). That is kṣatriya's business. Sādhu protection (Hindi). This is kṣatriya's business. God has got two business. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. If you want to prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā, it is difficult. (laughs) It is not possible. He says that "I have got two business: paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām, dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya..." Unless these two things are there, there cannot be establishment of real law and order. (break) ...everywhere, law and order. In spiritual also. Unless there is law and order, it is chaos. Law and order must be there.

Dr. Patel: Society came into existence after the evolution of the civilization.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Patel: Society came into existence after the evolution of the proper civilization. Before, when... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...right civilization begins when the society is organized. Otherwise, it's cats' and dogs' civilization. That is not civilization. Unless... Varṇāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān (CC Madhya 8.58). The society becomes perfect when the members of the society can understand that this human body is meant for satisfying Viṣṇu. That is the beginning of organized society. So long they do not know that, that is animal society. Because the animals, they do not know that.

Dr. Patel: Shall we go back?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The animals, they do not know. (break) They do not know it, that "We have to satisfy the Supreme Viṣṇu." So unless the society comes to this consciousness that "We have to satisfy the Supreme," that is not human society. Now, how they will understand? Therefore four divisions.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And he was earning fifty-thousand rupees at that time, fifty years ago. What is the value, just see. He was earning and spending like anything, lavishly, and he was so bad associated that wine and woman was his paraphernalia. That's all. As soon as there will be case engaged the first order is that "You have to supply so many cases of wine and so many batches of prostitute." That was C.R. Dasa's condition, first condition. In the Mopaceel(?) court when he would be invited to plead, the first condition is this. Then his fees. So in this way he was living. But he gave up. On Congress Movement he gave up everything practiced, but he died within one year. Because he was living so luxuriously, all of a sudden he became a renouncer, he could not tolerate that. He died. Within one year he died. So therefore these ministers, they gave up all this luxurious life, became a mendicant. The question is how they lived? Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha-vat bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna kan... Then gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛtādhi-laharī-kallola-magnau sadā: They were fully absorbed in the thought of how Kṛṣṇa, and His pastimes with His gopīs. He was always absorbed. Vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. This is exhibition. When one becomes ecstatic, "Oh, now I have to do something for Kṛṣṇa," then he renounces everything. Only Kṛṣṇa. Only Kṛṣṇa's business. That is the test. That is the test. What is the use of spiritual advancement? Spiritual advancement means these material things given up. That is spiritual advancement. That is... The example is given, bhaktiḥ pareṣānubhavoḥ viraktir anyatra syāt. As soon as one develops real bhakti, he will be averse to all these material things. That is the first sign. "No more these things." Bhaktiḥ pareṣānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt (SB 11.2.42). Just like if you are hungry and if you are given some food, if you are satisfied, then the same food will be denied by you. "No, no, no. I don't want anymore." Full satisfaction. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja said, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce (CC Madhya 22.42). When he fully became perfect and Nārāyaṇa was present before him, He asked him, "What benediction you want? You take." He said, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi: "Simply by seeing You, by Your presence, I am fully satisfied. No more benediction. I don't want any benediction." This is bhakti. Bhaktiḥ pareṣānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt. (break) ...ca lābha-santuṣṭau. No more demand. "Whatever by Kṛṣṇa's grace comes, that's all right. And not comes, it doesn't matter." The other śloka also, nirāśī, That is bhakti. Otherwise how one can be satisfied in any condition of life unless there is bhakti?

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) We also say that "You take advantage of this, and also produce sufficient food grains so that people may not starve." Parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Unless there is sufficient grain... People are giving more stress how to produce machine, but they are not giving any stress how to produce foodstuff. So many land are lying vacant. You go in India. So many lands. Not only in India. In other countries also. In England also we have seen. They are not taking care. Because it is very troublesome to put... "Better start a factory and get money easily."

Indian man (1): They are now thinking about it. "Green revolution."

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. (break) So much land is lying vacant. They could utilize for food grains. No. They do not do it. (break) ...they have been withdrawn from the villages to work in the city, in the factories, and the lands are lying vacant. (break) Mahimā siddhi, to become heavier. Animā, laghimā, mahimā, prāpti, siddhi. There are eight kinds of yoga-siddhis. So those who are yoga siddha... Kṛṣṇa is Yogeśvara. He became so heavy. (break) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you very much. (break) ...aeroplane, it comes gradually, there is no crashing, but if it drops all of a sudden, then it is crashed. So this Tṛṇāvartāsura could not do that. He felt so heavy, fell down.

Girirāja: "He hit the stone ground and his limbs were smashed. His body became visible to all the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana. When the gopīs..." (break)

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. If you keep... A man is dead, and keep his body. So it will decompose, but the life will come. So many worms will come. So these are... If you say that chemicals, these material, then the chemicals are there, and life is coming. Now you take this chemical and prepare. You cannot say, "Although these chemicals are there, there is some deficiency. Therefore the life is not coming." No, why do you say like that? Life is coming. That man is not coming, but the life is coming. So these are ingredients for life. You prepare. You bring that man. Still, the rascal will say that life is made from matter. Not even gentlemen, what to speak of becoming scientist? You prepare. "No, in future we shall see." And he is getting Nobel Prize. Just see how the human society has become full of rascals, go-kharaḥ. They cannot prove; still they will insist, "Yes." And so far God is concerned, we learn from śāstra that God's two energies are working like heat and light. So energies are working, we can see. How these mangoes have come unless there is some energy? So therefore the energy is working. Therefore God is there. Just like as soon as light is there, although we are in the room we can understand that sunlight is there. As soon as the darkness is there, we understand that there is no more sun. So in the presence of energy... Just like in the motor car, before starting, you round the key, and it becomes, "Gut, gut, gut, gut." Now your current is there. The energy is there. So there are symptoms. By symptoms we can understand there is God. Where is the difficulty? And Kṛṣṇa is explaining, "Here, just see the symptom. The taste in the water I am." Then why do you say that you have not seen God? You are liar. You create that taste? Now take sea water and make that taste. Why do you take water from here and there? Sea water is there. Now you take it, and by chemical you create the taste. Why don't you? Therefore, unless God is there, you cannot do that, or God's sanction, you cannot do that. This is reasonable understanding of God, apart from seeing God. And because the taste is there—Kṛṣṇa says-therefore God is there. According to your capacity, you have to see God like that. You cannot see immediately Kṛṣṇa, with dvi-bhuja muralī, playing on flute. That you have no capacity. You have to see God like that. So when the rubber stamp is going to be delivered?

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Everything is perverted reflection. Janmādy asya yataḥ: (SB 1.1.1) "Everything is born from the Absolute Truth." So unless there is something in the Absolute Truth, how it can be reflected here? Everything is there.

Dr. Patel: Almost everything. All His śaktis excepting Him.

Prabhupāda: Athāto brahma jijñāsā, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1).

Girirāja: "They began to say that 'The chief gopī, Rādhārāṇī, who was taken alone by Kṛṣṇa must be very proud of Her position, thinking Herself the greatest of the gopīs. Yet how could Kṛṣṇa take Her alone, leaving all of us aside?' "

Prabhupāda: (break) ...by Rūpa Gosvāmī. Rādhe jaya jaya mādhava-dayite.

Dr. Patel: Rādhe jaya jaya mādhava...

Prabhupāda: Mādhava-dayite, gokula... Eh?

Girirāja: Taruṇī.

Prabhupāda: Gokula-taruṇī maṇḍala-mahite. Rādhe jaya jaya mādhava-dayite, gokula-taruṇī, all the maṇḍala-mahite. She is the most beautiful amongst all the young girls in Gokula. Rādhe jaya jaya mādhava...

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: No, what do they know about peaceful conditions. They are all rascals. They do not know what is peaceful condition. Actually peaceful condition is described in the Bhagavad-gītā,

bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ
sarva-loka-maheśvaram
suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ
jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati
(BG 5.29)

This is peace. Unless there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, where is the peacefulness? There cannot be. All rascaldom. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). These rascals and fools, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ, lost of all knowledge—how there can be peace? It is all useless. What is this?

Satsvarūpa: Embracing. Men and women and child, too.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Yogeśvara(?): Merged.

Prabhupāda: Merged into one. (laughter) Brahman realization. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Bhagavān: We can turn back now.

Prabhupāda: Hm. This way or that way?

Guru-gaurāṅga: This way is all right.

Prabhupāda: Very nice park.

Yogeśvara: In the ancient tribal system, there was some form of religiosity. There was some form of worship of God. The so-called modern civilization doesn't even maintain that.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Pradyumna: "The path of spiritual realization is undoubtedly difficult. The Lord therefore advises us to approach a bona fide spiritual master in the line of disciplic succession from the Lord Himself. No one can be a bona fide spiritual master without following this principle of disciplic succession. The Lord is the original spiritual master, and a person in the disciplic succession can convey the message of the Lord as it is to his disciple. No one can be spiritually realized by manufacturing his own process, as is the fashion of the foolish pretenders. The Bhāgavatam says: dharmaṁ hi sākṣād-bhagavat-praṇītam—the path of religion is directly enunciated by the Lord. Therefore, mental speculation or dry arguments cannot help one progress in spiritual life. One has to approach a bona fide spiritual master to receive the knowledge. Such a spiritual master should be accepted in full surrender, and one should serve the spiritual master like a menial servant, without false prestige. Satisfaction of the self-realized spiritual master is the secret of advancement in spiritual life. Inquiries and submission constitute the proper combination for spiritual understanding. Unless there is submission and service, inquiries from the learned spiritual master will not be effective. One must be able to pass the test of the spiritual master, and when he sees the genuine desire of the disciple, he automatically blesses the disciple with genuine spiritual understanding. In this verse, both blind following and absurd inquiries are condemned. One should not only hear submissively from the spiritual master, but one must also get a clear understanding from him, in submission and service and inquiries. A bona fide spiritual master is by nature very kind toward the disciple. Therefore when the student is submissive and is always ready to render service, the reciprocation of knowledge and inquiries becomes perfect."

Prabhupāda: We have started a gurukula in Dallas. Small children are being trained up. Just like formerly there was brahmacārī āśrama. (aside:) Those ladies, they have come? No? If there are any inquiries. (break) ...record?

Devotee: Which record?

Bhagavān: From this afternoon, the recording.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So they are always engaged in devotional service. So unless there is some realization, how they can engage their time in this way? (break) "You are human being. You can eat. I have given you fruits. I have given you vegetables. I have given you food grains. I have given you milk, very nutritious, palatable, containing all vitamin ABCD. And why should you kill animals? Why should you give trouble to the others?" This is self-realization, that "Here is another self. The same active principle is working there. The body is different. Why shall I kill him?" So they have realized it. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Equal vision to all living entities, that the self, that active principle, is working in the fish, in the insect, within the tree, within the plant, within the animals, within the birds and within me. This is self-realization. That active principle is soul, and the soul is migrating from one body to another as you are migrating from childhood to babyhood, babyhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood. So the soul is the same. The body is different. The body is material and the soul is spiritual. When one comes to this understanding, that is self-realization.

Professor Durckheim: May I put a question, master? On the way there should be progress, inner progress. How to realize that there is a progress? I would say one thing is very important. There are three sufferings in the world of mankind: fear of annihilation, despair if you are taken by something which is absurd, and loneliness, if you are alone. These three sufferings in the world for the natural being. I realize that you make a decisive step on your inner way when you feel life in the very moment when you have to die, when you feel the great meaning in the very moment when you are just having despair, and when you feel the great love of the person God exactly while you are a lonely in the world. And I have realized that we are now in a very decisive moment in the western world because for the first time in the history of mankind, the western people, in Europe and the States, start to take seriously certain experiences, inner experiences, where this truth is revealed. In all times, as far as I see, the great condition of the east, they knew about those experiences where death loses its terrifying character and becomes the threshold to some bigger life.

Morning Walk -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Just see. Their sensation is very covered. Just like you cut the nails. There is no sensation. And does it mean there is no sensation-therefore there is no life? Unless there is life, how it is growing? It is growing; therefore you cut. But when you cut, there is no sensation. But there is life. Otherwise, how it is growing? The same nail, when you cut, you throw it on the ground. It will not grow. These are practical example. Just like little child. Their sensation is less. I know. My eldest daughter, when she was six months old, there was some boil. So the doctor operated. She simply, "Uh, uh," no cried. I have seen it. She was not crying. But the same boil, when a fully developed man, he will feel more sensation. So according to the body, the sensations are different. The same things, means mind, intelligence and ego, according to the body, they act differently. But the mind, intelligence and ego are there. The dog is coming, and if I say, "Hut!", unless it has got intelligence, how it goes away the other way? There is intelligence. There is no language, but because he has got intelligence, he can immediately understand I don't want him to come here. So how you can say there is no intelligence? The rascals say "The animals have no intelligence; therefore they have no soul." If one has no intelligence, there is no soul. That is admitted. But here is intelligence. How can you deny, "There is no soul"? The animals, the cows, when they are taken to the slaughterhouse, why they cry? Because he has intelligence that "Now I am going to be killed." And these rascals say there is no soul. And still, they are religious priests. Such fools and rascals are made religious fools, priests. No common sense. And they also get degree, Doctor of Divinity, DD. (break) ...Greek scholar, here in this Germany or in nearby?

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes, in the beginning there is no love. Let him work on the direction of God's representative. (break) Therefore it has been warned, arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matir vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. The Deity of Viṣṇu, if one thinks, "This is made of stone; this is made of wood; this is made of metal," and spiritual master as ordinary human being, these are hellish considerations. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matiḥ. Guruṣu means the spiritual master. Nara-matiḥ, a ordinary human being. And vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. And Vaiṣṇava, a devotee—"Oh, he is brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇava. He is European Vaiṣṇava. He is this Vaiṣṇava, that..." No. These are forbidden. Vaiṣṇava is Vaiṣṇava. Spiritual master... They are all transcendental. In... of course, in this country you are introducing new, but in India... Just like we had been at Tirupati, Tirumala. Many thousands of people were coming, and their daily collection is not less than 100,000 rupees. And do you think these people are coming to offer these 100,000 rupees daily to a stone? And the ācāryas established this temple for bluffing these people? Does it mean, their collecting? They do not know the science, rascals. And therefore simply... Sinful life cannot help. Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that "One who is killer of animal, he cannot understand the spiritual science." Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). This is the statement. Paśughna means the animal killer. Therefore the first prohibition is stop this animal killing. Otherwise, this dull brain will not be able to understand. They are not fit for understanding. Mūḍha, mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). Duṣkṛtina means always engaged in sinful activities. They have got brain but their brain is being utilized only for sinful activities, they are called duṣkṛtina. Kṛtī, kṛtī means good brain, and duṣkṛtī means brain is being utilized for sinful act. Therefore they are mūḍha. In spite of good brain, they are rascals, because brain is being utilized for sinful activities, how to set up up-to-date machinery for killing animals. Brain is being used for this purpose. Any animal can be killed with ordinary knife, but they're manufacturing latest machinery. Their brain, rascal brain is being used for that purpose. And what they will understand? They are preparing their road for going to hell. What they will understand about spiritual matters? Nature will not excuse. That is not possible. (break) That is sufficient for your being killed. Yes, sir. Wherefrom these laws come unless there is God's laws? Everyone will be killed. They are thinking that "We are not going to slaughterhouse to kill.

Room Conversation with Bhurijana dasa and Disciples -- July 1, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That's it. As soon as the discipline broken, then everything is lost. Now you can dance like a dog. That will not affect. Nobody can do that unless there is spiritual strength. Now, last night Madhudviṣa Mahārāja was singing, and so many men became enthused to dance. So unless there is spiritual strength, it cannot be done. Others cannot ask and dance. No, that is not possible. That is not possible. Unless there is spiritual strength, you cannot enthuse others. So we should have to acquire spiritual strength by following the regulative principle. Sanātana Gosvāmī has therefore forbidden. Avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇam pūta-hari-kathāmṛtam śravanām kartavyam: "Those who are not following Vaiṣṇava principles, one should not hear from him." Why? It is Kṛṣṇa-kathā, Kṛṣṇa's. Now sarpocchiṣṭa-payo yathā: "Milk is very good, but as soon as it is touched by a serpent, it is no more good. It is harmful." So one must be Vaiṣṇava. Unless one is Vaiṣṇava, there is injunction, "Don't hear from him. It will be poisonous." So one who is not following Vaiṣṇava principle, he cannot speak about Vaiṣṇava principle. It is harmful. That is forbidden by ācāryas, Sanātana Gosvāmī. If somebody says, "What is the harm? He is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa..." He cannot chant. That is a show-bottle chant. That is not effective. But even taking that "Anyone who is chanting, let me hear," no, Sanātana Gosvāmī says, "No, don't hear." It will be harmful more than... In other words, if you are not following the Vaiṣṇava principle, you don't chant. It will not be effective. Did you not see the difference last night? There were many others. They could not join in the dancing. So far gathering men, if you do not gather intelligent men, then what is the use of gathering men? Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārā sahasraśaḥ: "If there is one moon, that is sufficient. What is the use of millions of stars?" If one is perfect Vaiṣṇava, that is sufficient. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement is... There are so many...

Room Conversation with Bhurijana dasa and Disciples -- July 1, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: There were many others. They could not join in the dancing. So far gathering men, if you do not gather intelligent men, then what is the use of gathering men? Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārā sahasraśaḥ: "If there is one moon, that is sufficient. What is the use of millions of stars?" If one is perfect Vaiṣṇava, that is sufficient. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement is... There are so many... Such a big instruction book. It is not that, whimsical. But still, we recommend that "Go on chanting." This will help you anywhere. That is also good. It is exactly like that: if you ignite wood for fire, if the wood is dry, the fire takes place immediately, and if it is moist, then it takes time. Only smoke will come. So smoke is not required. The blazing fire required. Then if from the wood, if simply smoke comes you cannot (chuckles) take any work out of it. There is traces of fire. As soon as there is smoke, there is fire, but it is not useful. It is useful for troubling your eyes only. What is smoke? Smoke means also fire. But you require blazing fire, not smoke fire. So blazing fire takes place if the wood is dry, immediately takes place. Otherwise, you go on enjoying the smoke. Be satisfied. "When there is smoke, there is fire." But it will not be useful. (chuckling) It will be useful, gradually the wood will dry. It takes long time. Just try to understand this example. You require the flame, not the smoke. But if you are satisfied with the smoke, that is your business. If you simply be satisfied—"The smoke is also fire. Unless there is fire, why the smoke comes?"—that's a good argument, but smoke will not help you. You require the flame. That flame cannot be produced if the wood is wet. Wet means materially contaminated. Is that example all right?

Satsvarūpa: Yes, that's true.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is spiritual form. It can take... It can become bigger, smaller, like that.

Atreya Ṛṣi: But the form is the same. (break)

Prabhupāda: This has been... Body has been described as the dress. So the form of the dress cannot be there unless there is form of the person who puts on the dress. How can you deny it? Because the dress has got form, the person who puts on the dress must have form. How can you deny this argument? You cannot say "formless." It may be, you cannot see it. That is different thing. But it must be form and individual. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that Kṛṣṇa says, "Arjuna, you and Me and all these persons who are here, they were existing like that in the past, they are now existing, and they will exist in the same way." Therefore all are individual.

Yoga student: With Kṛṣṇa can one say that Kṛṣṇa is the form that presents itself, of Godhead, which presents itself to man, and Bhagavān is the essential aspect?

Prabhupāda: Bhagavān? Yes, in the original.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Same as Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Just like the sun. Sunshine is very big, and the sun globe is not so big. But which is important, the sunshine or the sun globe?

Yoga student: But it's the glow which reaches man.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Spiritual...?

Young man: Leader.

Prabhupāda: They do not judge?

Young man: That's what I thought.

Prabhupāda: No, judgment is there everywhere. Unless there is judgment, how you can discriminate, "This is spiritual; this is material"? Judgment must be there for intelligent person. Otherwise how you can distinguish? We are distinguishing every moment—"This is good. This is bad"—in the relative world. So there is judgment. So God—the supreme judge. So as soon as there is question of judgment, then what is our position? There must be good and bad, so that if we have lived a very nice, good life, then by the judgment of God we get better position. And if we have not done so, then you get degraded position. Therefore, for human being it is very sanguine to understand how we are going to be judged by the Supreme. So if we are following the rules and regulation given by God, then the judgment will be better. And if we are not following the laws, the judgment will not be in favor. This is natural to conclude. Then we have to judge what is sin, what is piety, how to be pious, how one becomes sinful. So many things will come.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Do the laws of nature also make distinction, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Laws of nature means laws of God. It is executed through the machine of nature.

Atreya Ṛṣi: And that machine also makes distinction, doesn't it?

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That is spiritual form. You can take.... It can become bigger, smaller, like that.

Devotee: But the form is the same.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee: What is filling the body is consciousness. The consciousness...

Prabhupāda: You may have a big coat or small coat, overcoat, the form is the same. But for convenience (indistinct) or small coat. This has been, body has been, described as the dress so the form of the dress cannot be there unless there is form of the person who puts on the dress. How can I deny it? Because the dress has got form, the person who puts on the dress must have form. How can I deny this argument? You cannot say formless. Maybe you cannot see, that is the way, but the person must be form. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, "Arjuna, you and Me and all these persons who are here, they are existing like that in the past, they are now existing, and (indistinct), they will always be (indistinct)."

Guest: Is Kṛṣṇa.... Can one say that Kṛṣṇa is the form that presents itself, of Godhead that presents itself to man and Bhagavān is the essential aspect?

Prabhupāda: Bhagavān, yes, the original.

Devotee: The same as Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Just like the sun. The sunshine is very big, but the sun globe is not so big. But which is the form, the sunshine or the sun globe?

Guest: But its the glow which reaches man because...

Prabhupāda: No, these are examples.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Therefore, because you have no brain, therefore you cannot understand the rasas with Kṛṣṇa. That is spiritual; that is not material. Ānanda-rasa. Ananda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37). That is the Vedic statement. There is cinmaya. In the spiritual world there is ananda. You... You have no knowledge. You, due to your poor fund of knowledge, you think that in the spiritual world there is no rasa; it is simply void, negation of this rasa. Just like a diseased man. He is practiced to drink bitter medicine and pass stool on the bed and so many inconveniences, so if some of his friends says, "When you'll be cured, you'll be able to pass stool in the lavatory. You haven't got to, haven't got to pass stool..." Then he shudders: "Again I have to pass stool after becoming cured? Again I have to eat? No, no, this is not good. Make it zero." He has no idea what is the meaning of passing stool in healthy stage. It refreshes the body. We get good energy. That he cannot conceive. He thinks that "If there is passing of stool again, then it must be the same suffering as I am undergoing now in this condition." So the Māyāvādī's idea of spiritual life means negation of these material activities. But they have no idea that similar activities are there in spiritual life, but that is not material. That is their poor fund of knowledge. Therefore we are... You are not understanding Caitanya-caritāmṛta, the rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtīv hlādinī-śaktir asmāt. That I am explaining for the last few days. That is not at all this material. So unless there is loving affair in the spiritual world, how here it is as perverted reflection? It is the reflection of the reality. The reality is there. That they cannot understand. That is also hinted in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "There is another feature, or another nature," paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyaḥ (BG 8.20), "which is sanātana, is eternal." Here the rasas, on account of being material, they are flickering. But there, real rasa is permanent. Here the loving affairs between two parties finish as soon as the bodies finish. But there, there is no question of finishing. Increasing. Ānandambudhi-vardhanam, increasing. Harer nāma... (Break)...in reality, "what I am," that can be understood through devotional service, not by karma, jñāna, yoga. But... Give this example, I mean to say, authoritative statement of Kṛṣṇa, that bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55).

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Yaśodānandana: You have said that variety is the mother of enjoyment. So we are enjoying many different songs.

Prabhupāda: Unless there is variety how we are enjoying.

Yaśodānandana: Yes. So therefore you only have one song. But we have many songs.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Who cares for you.

Yaśodānandana: So many people.

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But there are so many symphonies...

Prabhupāda: That is our credit. We have got one song and we are attracting so many. You have got many songs but you attract yourself only. That...

Devotee: When there is a symphony orchestra, ten thousand, twenty thousand people have come to hear.

Prabhupāda: But who takes it seriously?

Devotee: They all do.

Prabhupāda: They stay here and go away. That's all... Temporary, temporary.

Devotee: But then they will also buy the record and listen at home.

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Everything is true. If you think it properly, you'll find it is all true. Bhagavad-gītā says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ: (BG 4.13) "By Me, the four divisions of human society are made." The most intelligent class, the brāhmaṇa, who knows the soul, God, etc., by their character, by their behavior. That is brāhmaṇa class. This is the most perfect way of keeping society. Unless there is a class which is very intelligent who know what is God, what is soul, then what is the civilization? Simply motorcar drivers? Is that civilization? Where is the brāhmaṇa? This is not civilization. Simply some artisans and workers, motorcar drivers, mill workers, where is civilized man, who knows God, who knows soul, who knows how to conduct the human society to the perfection? Where is that man? It is not civilization.

Paramahaṁsa: But we have philosophers and poets.

Prabhupāda: They are all loafer class. They have no information of the soul. They are studying in the dead matter, that's all. Freud and others, Darwin. What do they know?

Amogha: There are also so many priests and rabbis, the Pope.

Prabhupāda: But what do they know about the soul, about God? First thing is that there is a supreme authority. You are not independent. So if you do not know who is that supreme authority, what is the value of your knowledge? You have to accept there is a supreme authority, because you are not independent. But you do not know. Just like a rascal, he does not know about the government. What kind of man he is? He's a rascal. A civilized man means he knows what is government, what is the history of government. That is civilized. And if he doesn't know what is government, he is simply living there, he's a third class man. So you have to accept there is a government of the whole universal affair, but you do not know it. Then you are third-class man. You are not human being; you are animal. Animal does not know. This is the proof that you are animal, you are not human being. A human being, at least a class of man there must be—brāhmaṇa. Brāhma jānāti iti brāhmaṇaḥ, one who knows how things are going on. We know that. We Kṛṣṇa conscious people, we know. Therefore we are civilized.

Room Conversation with Ganesa dasa's Mother and Sister -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is evil. You don't try to carry out the orders of God, this is evil.

Mother: But what I'm trying to say is there's more evil in the world than goodness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless there is evil, why you are in this material world? You have accepted evil. Therefore you are in this material world. And if you accept God, the good, then you are in the spiritual world. You don't accept God; you want evil. Therefore you are in the material world. Just like in the jail, prison house, who are they? They are all criminals. Similarly, every one of us who are within this material world, they are all criminals because they have disobeyed the order of God. In different status only, but they are all criminals. Because every one of them is subjected to the rules of nature: birth, death, old age, and disease. So your child is very intelligent. He has taken to this. Now you can do also the same thing, both mother and daughter.

Mother: And his wife.

Gaṇeśa: My wife.

Prabhupāda: Where is your wife?

Gaṇeśa: Melbourne. Śubhalakṣmī-devī.

Prabhupāda: Oh, she is also nice.

Gaṇeśa: Big BBT distributor.

Room Conversation with Alcohol and Drug Hospital People -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Worshiping means appreciating high qualities. Worshiping is not blind. If I know that you have some high qualities, I worship you.

Guest (2): Do you worship to a person or what? To his doctrines or...?

Prabhupāda: Worship means person. Worship does not mean imperson. Unless there is a person-to-person relationship, there is no question of worship.

Guest (2): Is... This picture of Śrī Viṣṇu, it's the person who you worship or...?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (2): He is the creator.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (2): And, in the sense that He is called Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is His another form. Kṛṣṇa is Viṣṇu's another form.

Guest (2): I see, yes.

Prabhupāda: Find out, aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2).

Guest (3): What is your correlation between belief and science? You mentioned that science is involved.

Prabhupāda: Science?

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Similarly you can think of Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Sings) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa... Same thing. Where is the difference? There is no difference.

Jesuit: The third form is where I do not think it, it's just, I'm sort of rapt, absorbed in the divine...

Prabhupāda: Yes. But that attention, ecstasy, comes in Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Otherwise these young boys are chanting and dancing... Unless there is ecstasy... They are not monkeys. They are human beings. They are dancing, with education, with culture. Unless there is spiritual ecstasy, how they can chant and dance for hours together? It is not monkey dancing. It is spiritual. It is spiritual.

Jesuit: Oh, I can see that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is God's omnipotency. When you offer sincere prayer, the words become spiritual. That is wanted. If you sincerely offer your prayers, God understands. Even though sound appears to be material it is no more material; it is spiritual. Just like... I will give you one example. Just you put one iron rod in the fire. So the iron rod becomes warm, warmer, warmer, and then it becomes red hot. When it is red hot, it is no more iron. It is fire. You touch that red hot anywhere; it will burn.

Jesuit: Hm. Transformed, it changes.

Morning Walk -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Madhudviṣa: Yes. They remain celibate. He was saying that it is a personal preference.

Devotee: They have no general rule. It's just that if you want to be celibate, then that's very nice, but if you want to have sex life...

Prabhupāda: Then why they have recommended this, unless there is some benefit?

Śrutakīrti: Well, that knowledge has been lost through the years. A few hundred years ago, many of the celibates were also vegetarian, but all that has changed.

Prabhupāda: That means they are gliding down towards hell, that's all. Yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. Now they are coming to the platform of homosex. This is their advancement, spiritual advancement. Yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. This is Coca-cola, everywhere. (break) ... mukti, liberation, and the word salvation is the same? Then what is the meaning of salvation?

Devotee: Salvation means to be saved, liberation.

Prabhupāda: Then what do they mean by that liberation?

Madhudviṣa: Salvation means to be saved by Jesus. Saved by Jesus means to...

Prabhupāda: So what is the platform of that saving?

Madhudviṣa: To go to heaven, spiritual world.

Prabhupāda: There is idea of spiritual world?

Madhudviṣa: Well, there is kingdom of God, but they have vague idea. They say no man has seen God, nor has he seen His kingdom.

Prabhupāda: Then how Jesus saw?

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: This Professor Stahl, he was saying that his experience is that everything is changing and temporary. So therefore he was thinking that that is the nature of all things, that they are temporary.

Prabhupāda: Temporary, this (indistinct). Why this "temporary" word has come into existence unless there is the opposite, "eternal"? Why do you use this word, "temporary"? When you say, "It is fraud," and there must be something as honesty. Otherwise, why this "fraud" has come? Hm? We say, "This is light"—means there is something as darkness. This is relative world. The Professor Einstein said relativity. This is relative: as soon as there is darkness, there must be light. Otherwise, how you understand light and darkness? So unless there is eternity, how do you bring this word, "temporary"? What is their answer?

Bahulāśva: They have no answer.

Prabhupāda: Unless there is father, there is no meaning of the word son. Unless there is husband, there is no meaning of the word wife. This is the relative world, and they are accepting this relativity. So how they can deny? As soon as you "temporary" say, you must accept there is eternity.

Bahulāśva: We were telling him that although everything is changing, he was still existing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, existing, but why you are in change? That is the question. "I am existing," that we say, but we are trying to solve the problem of changing. But this changing is not very happy, to die and again accept another body and remain to, in the womb of the mother to develop that body in an airtight condition. So why these foolish persons do not take it as very miserable? And with the risk of being killed by the mother. Nowadays their abortion and killing. So is it very nice life, that you die and you enter into the mother's womb to develop another body? And that also not secure. Is that very nice life? (break) Write many articles on this subject matter and prove them that "You are all fools." (break) ...major problem, they have left aside.

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. He was so respectful to the brahminical culture. Many places it is described. Therefore His another name is namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca, jagad-hitāya kṛṣṇāya govindāya. In the Kali-yuga the so-called brāhmaṇa means having a two cents thread. Not that brāhmaṇa. Vipratve sūtram eva ca. "To become a brāhmaṇa, just have a thread, sacred thread, and then do all nonsense." That kind of is not required. That is Kali-yuga brāhmaṇa: "I have got the sacred thread. I have become brāhmaṇa. Now I can do all nonsense. Never mind." That will not help. (break) ...giving sacred thread on the Pāñcarātriki-vidhi, the same principle. There is a little spot, fire. Fan it. The process of fanning. But the fanning is stopped; then small spot of fire also extinguished. It will have no effect because the small fire cannot do anything. It must be blazing fire. So our this process... We are accepting from the most fallen condition. Because he has little spark of fire—he wants to get Kṛṣṇa consciousness—so our process is: "Fan it." And then it must be blazing fire. But if you say that "Now that small fire is sufficient," that will not act. It must be blazing fire. A small fire is the potency. But potency should be brought to... Just like wood. There is fire. Everyone knows. But that will not serve your purpose. Fuel wood, unless there is fire... So there is fire, but it has to be increased. The wood... First of all set fire. Then there will be smoke. The smoke is also not fire. Smoke is another condition, symptom of fire, but smoke is not fire. The smoke must come into blazing fire. Then it can act.

Brahmānanda: The fanning, that is the devotional practices.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: If that stops...

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: To become angry is also qualification of God.

John Mize: I don't understand what you last said. To be angry is...

Bahulāśva: A quality of God. To become angry is a quality of God.

Prabhupāda: Because unless there is anger in God, how there is anger in me? But we, as we misuse our independence, we misuse our anger. And God does not misuse his independence; He does not misuse His anger. But the anger quality is there. Otherwise, how I have got anger? This is the Vedānta philosophy. Janmādyasya yataḥ: "Everything is emanating from the Supreme." So if the anger is there, it must be there.

John Mize: And jealousy?

Prabhupāda: Everything.

John Mize: It's difficult to imagine Kṛṣṇa jealous.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

John Mize: What could He possibly envy or be jealous of?

Prabhupāda: You can say whatever thing, but anger, all, whatever you have got, God has got in bigger quantity and perfect quantity. That is the conception of God, without any, what is called?

John Mize: Imperfection?

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Learned scholars, philosophers, they should understand the importance of this movement and how it is beneficial. They are suffering for want of knowledge of the spirit soul. They are keeping themselves in the animal platform with their so-called education, but unless there is spiritual understanding, the education has no value. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇa mano-rathena asato dhavato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). He will remain on the mental platform. And mind is now materially contaminated. So even if he remains in the mental platform, he remains in the material platform. He cannot make any improvement. One has to come to the spiritual platform. That is required.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Prabhupāda, what is the symptom that you have reached the spiritual platform?

Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. Prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54), samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. These persons who are on the mental platform, they will argue, "The animal has no soul."

John Mize: I did not understand the answer.

Bahulāśva: Prabhupāda said that those who are on the mental platform will argue that the animal has no soul. They will be hankering and lamenting...

Prabhupāda: These are the signs of material platform.

Jayatīrtha: On the spiritual platform you're able to see all living beings equally, but on the mental platform...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ. Find out this verse.

Morning Walk -- June 28, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Like New York? No, New York was never below zero. (break) Winter, how many months is continuing?

Kuruśreṣṭha: Four or five months.

Prabhupāda: Four, five months. Always snow?

Kuruśreṣṭha: Sometimes snow.

Prabhupāda: So why the temperature is so low unless there is snow?

Brahmānanda: The mountains, in the mountains there is snow?

Kuruśreṣṭha: At like eleven, twelve thousand. This is five thousand feet altitude, here in Denver.

Prabhupāda: Snow falls above ten thousand feet?

Kuruśreṣṭha: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...Kashmir, that is sixteen thousand feet. (break) ...do not sink? Guarantee? (laughter) (break) ...glass building.

Kuruśreṣṭha: That's a hospital, Śrīla Prabhupāda. The temple is in a hospital zone. It keeps the price of the land very high.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break)

Brahmānanda: ...hospital is more expensive?

Kuruśreṣṭha: All, in this area, doctors and high class, so-called high class men live.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Otherwise, why we are trying unless there is hope? We are not hopeless. If you train... If you can train a monkey to dance according to your will, why not human being? You can train even a tiger in the circus; he will act as you desire. It is the question of training. If the animal can be trained, why not a human being? You must know how to train. That knowledge is lacking, how to train. That we are giving, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Guest (Indian man): Swamiji, I'll ask one last question. What advice do you give to a man of family? I am taking my case, I have four children, and they are, their ages, between six and thirteen. I have to see that they grow up nice, I have to see that they educate themself so that they are as according to you... I don't know. I don't call myself first-class, second-class, third-class. As you said, there are no first-class men, second-class men. But then how, apart from making them first class that they should follow the religious...?

Prabhupāda: No, no, if you become first-class, and they will follow you. You remain last-class, and how you can train your first-class? (laughter) In the śāstra it is said, "Unless you can create first-class man, don't beget children." Pitā na sa syāj janani na sa syād gurur na sa syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. It is the duty of the father to raise his children first-class. Otherwise he should not become a father. That is contraceptive. Just like Vasudeva and Devakī. Formerly they were Vasus and they were asked by Brahmā to create progeny. So the husband and wife, they practiced austerities very severely. So then God appeared before them: "What do you want?" And they said that "We can enter into family life provided You become our son." No, "If we get a son like you." Then God said, "Where is second person like Me? So I shall become your son."

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Woman reporter: That's not necessarily true.

Prabhupāda: Then why they study the brain? What is the purpose of studying brain unless there is difference? You study different brains. Unless you feel that there is difference between this brain and that brain, why do you study. What is the meaning of study?

Woman reporter: To find differences among men. It's not necessarily differences between men and woman.

Prabhupāda: I don't say man or woman. But I say you study different brains—why? Unless you think there is some difference?

Woman reporter: There is difference.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So if there is difference, then what is the harm if there is difference between man and woman's brain?

Woman reporter: They say there isn't.

Prabhupāda: They say, but the fact we have to study. As soon as you study the construction of different brain, then you must know that there is difference, different activities.

Woman reporter: In other words, you do not believe this, what they say.

Prabhupāda: Then why do you study different brain?

Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Or even we are promoted to the higher standard of life, as in higher planets the demigods, the four principles of material miseries, namely birth, death, old age and disease, we cannot avoid, either in the higher planetary or in the lower planetary system. But if we want eternal life of bliss and knowledge, then we must endeavor in this life how to go back to home, back to Godhead. And such persons who are endeavoring for this purpose, they are called first-class men. And they are called brāhmaṇas or the first-class men. So society must be divided into four classes: first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class. That is general. Those who are endeavoring for realizing God, they are first-class men. Those who are less intelligent—they are trying to rule over the material world—they are second-class men. And those who are engaged in producing food and cow protection, they are third-class. And those who are useless for any of these three occupational duties, they are called fourth-class. And those who are still lower than that, they are called fifth-class, sixth-class, like that. So our educational system should be so arranged that there may be first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class men, not less than fourth-class men. Then the social structure will be in order and everyone will be peaceful, aiming at the point, how to go back to home, back to Godhead. Unless there is such structure of the society... Just like in our body we have got four divisions, the head, the arms, the belly and the leg. All of them are required. But the position of the head and position of the leg are different. Head means giving direction, and arms means giving protection, and belly means receiving food for energy of the body, and leg means working. So the human society must be divided into four section, and they should work combinedly, cooperatively. Then there will be peaceful condition for realization of the goal of life, back to home, back to Godhead. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is teaching this process of life, and the whole world is now in chaos on account of no brain. Just like we have got this body.

Morning Walk -- September 15, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. So what did he say?

Indian man (2): Yes, Prabhupāda, he accepted immediately.

Brahmānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we should return.

Prabhupāda: Return? All right. (break) ...seen by premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). Unless there is love for God, who can see God? Santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu. One who is lover of God, such saintly person, twenty-four hours he sees simply God, nothing else.

Hari-śauri: (break) ...last night, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and he was saying that if everything is ultimately spiritual, if one is spiritually advanced, he sees everything as spiritual. Then if everything is spiritual, then we can carry on just doing the same things that we're doing now, because it's all for God.

Prabhupāda: No. Kṛṣṇa says that "Everything is My energy, but..." Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni nāhaṁ teṣu: (BG 9.4) "But I am not there." This is the answer. Everything is Kṛṣṇa's expansion, but not that everything is Kṛṣṇa.

Indian man (2): It is also not spiritual.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Indian man (2): The energy is there, but it is not spiritual.

Morning Walk -- September 18, 1975, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: You find out.

Praṇava: I didn't come. She came at that time only. In the morning time the mike is not, also it is not allowed to use. I think it is...

Prabhupāda: No, no, unless there is crowd, don't use the mike.

Praṇava: But in morning time...

Prabhupāda: Morning or evening, unless there is crowd, what is the use of using mike?

Praṇava: For broadcasting outside.

Prabhupāda: No, no. No, no. When there is crowd, you use mike. (break) ...Saheb is doing?

Dhanañjaya: Mr. Cyavana? Now he is sitting at the reception desk in the morning, and Nayanābhirāma...

Prabhupāda: What is the reception? Who is coming?

Dhanañjaya: Some people are always coming. They are inquiring about the guesthouse, about life membership. And Nayanābhirāma is instructing him how to inform the people about membership and about the guest rooms. Actually Rājasabhā, he keeps a hotel in Madhya Pradesh.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Morning Walk -- September 26, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). We have to create our eyes to see. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Indian man (7): (break) ...unless there is a good center. Mr. Marya said that you are going to have one here.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Indian man (8): If... We'll get continuous advantage of your preaching, sir.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (loud car noise)

Indian man (7): And I think that it is badly needed.

Indian man (8): (break) That gentleman whispered in my ear, that "I am mūḍha" he said. And I said, "Yes, you are a mūḍha." (laughter)

Prabhupāda: He confirmed it. That he is.

Indian man (8): But he said that "I am a rākṣasa, maybe. Of course, you are like that."

Prabhupāda: Then anyone. Why he is alone? Anyone.

Indian man (8): No, he claims that "I am a mūḍha." "Yes," I said, "you are." When he questioned, I have to reply.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: What are these plants? Pineapple? No. Different. (break) ...intelligent. Just like here is sunshine. Wherefrom the sunshine is coming? We can see the sun globe. So what is the arrangement there? This is inquiry. And there must be some heating arrangement, lighting arrangement. There must be some fire. And who has made this fire? How it came, so big fire that the whole universe is heated and light? This is inquiry. And see the sunshine and say, "It is nature," and finish business, dismiss all other questions—what is this nonsense? "I am great scientist." Eh? What is your reply? "It is nature, that's all." A great scientist. That a child can say also. It is automatic. That is not intelligence. If the scientists simply study the sunshine, they will have to come to the conclusion there is God. But they will not do that. They will bluff others, they will cheat others, and they will be cheated. And still they pass on as great scientist. Study the sunshine, wherefrom it is coming. You have no experience that unless there is arrangement at night, there is no sunshine, why you make so much arrangement for heat and light by electricity, by this way and that way and there is no arrangement nature? But such foolish talks we have to hear from so-called scientists? That is going on.

Harikeśa: They like to think that everything evolved so they can think that eventually...

Prabhupāda: What is the...? Why you do not manufacture something that everything will evolve? Why you have to search out for petrol? Let petrol evolve within your car. Make such arrangement. Why you are anxious to get petrol from Arabia? Evolve petrol. Make some scientific discovery that petrol is evolving, so when the machine is going on, petrol is also evolving. Then you are scientist. Evolve. The theory of evolve will come. But you cannot do that. Why do you say nonsense? Darwin's theory—"extinct." Now he is extinct. Does it mean so many other Charles are also extinct? There are many thousands of Charles Darwins. They are existing. So where is his theory of extinction? He is a man. He is no longer existing. And so many millions and millions of men are existing. Where is the question of extinct?

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: You are a rascal. That is the proof you are a rascal. (laughter)

Devotee (1): We need defense so we have to work hard to keep defense, economy. The common man has to contribute to the state to keep its defense.

Prabhupāda: Defense, that means...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's today... Unless there is very complex society...

Devotee (1): Otherwise we will be exploited.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Unless there is a very complex...

Prabhupāda: Therefore we say change the society. Society means you and me. If we agree that this kind of civilization is wrong, then society, what does it mean? They have made the United Nations. What is that? For this purpose, that "Why we are fighting unnecessarily?" So make their settlement, how to live. What is the standard of civilization? What is the aim of life? What they are doing in the United Nation for the last thirty years? What they have done? They simply fighting, the same cats and dogs. What is the value?

Harikeśa: Whenever there is some war they send some observers.

Prabhupāda: That is cats and watchdog. That's all, watchdog. (laughter) That's all, civilization of cats and dogs.

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, the 1975 Nobel Peace Award was awarded to a leading scientist who helped the nuclear weapon, who created the H-bomb. Just recently it was awarded to him.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Harikeśa: It seems unless there is some monarch who is ruling over the whole world, one personality...

Prabhupāda: No, not... Yes, whole world. He must be rājarṣi, just like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, representative of Kṛṣṇa. He can divide to small kings, "Now you look after such tract of land," and he divides. In this way there will be peace. No tax. If you are unable to produce anything, then no tax. Why should you levy tax from the poor man?

Harikeśa: What about those people who don't want to work? They are lazy.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Harikeśa: What about lazy people?

Prabhupāda: Let them become śūdra. Let them become servant. After all, unless he works, he cannot get his food. So let him become servant. He has to work to get food. No property. He should not be given any property. If you work, you can get food. Just like animal.

Harikeśa: How in the beginning is it decided that somebody is working and he should be given or not given?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Morning Walk -- October 20, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: The same thing. In order to feel the happiness of playing, he has to go in this way. It is unhappiness.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Such standard of religion the Western countries are not used to.

Prabhupāda: Where is religion in Western countries? There is no religion. All bogus thing. Religion means to surrender to God. Then where is God, and whom to surrender? They surrender to senses, that's all. So unless there is God, what is the meaning of religion? That is not religion. They have created something, civilized human society. There must be some religion. Just like aristocracy means he must have a good dog, that's all. There is no religion in the world except Kṛṣṇa consciousness. All bogus.

Harikeśa: What is the Pope doing, then? (laughter)

Prabhupāda: He's another big bogus man. The Pope's assistant died in the prostitute's house.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In Paris.

Harikeśa: The Pope comes out on his balcony, and thousands of people cheer and scream.

Prabhupāda: The same thing, that small animals praising the big animals, that's all. At least they say something about God. They are not zero, but they have no clear conception of God.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But everyone is thinking that their religion is the best. Even the Christian may be ignorant, even the Jew may be ignorant, anyone—doesn't matter—they're thinking that theirs is the best.

Morning Walk -- October 21, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the point. Just like the eggs. If there is no life, how the chicken comes? Why don't you manufacture an egg and bring life from it? That was... The other day I was talking. So because you are tenth-class rascal you cannot understand how the life is there. A seed. Take a seed. Unless there is life, how a big tree comes out of it? You manufacture something like that, imitating, and bring life. Life is there. Because you are tenth-class rascal you do not know.

Harikeśa: They also bring up the insane argument that life...

Prabhupāda: "Insane argument." How we have...? We have no time to hear such insane argument.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But these demons, Prabhupāda, they pose themselves as being very religious. They pose themselves as being very religious.

Prabhupāda: How they are religious?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They cite scripture.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) The scripture is also devilish. What is these marks?

Harikeśa: They grow the grass around the outside and when the green inside has some hole in it like there, they plug it up with that.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The scientists cannot immediately accept authority of the Bhāgavatam, that it will take hundreds of years.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. How the lightning was manufactured, rascal?

Harikeśa: Well, there were some positive charges in the clouds and some negative charges in the ground.

Prabhupāda: That's alright. Who made that positive charge and negative charge?

Akṣayānanda: So let them manufacture lightning bolts in the Tata factory.

Prabhupāda: How the electricity is produced unless there is some arrangement? Just put counter-argument and argument, try to understand. You have to preach. So your argument stopped?

Harikeśa: I don't know anything about this. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: You cannot... Your malador masjid(?). Arguments are there, so whether there is life in the sun globe?

Indian man: (Hindi—discussion with Śrīla Prabhupāda and other Indian men about śāstra, scientists, agni, and the example of the iron factory)

Prabhupāda: Jaya.

Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa!

Harikeśa: But the fire and the life is different in the Tata factory.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Harikeśa: The fire is different from the life. The fire is produced.

Prabhupāda: The fire is the same. There is fire. Fire is the same. In the life the fire is not different.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Supplies ingredients. Yes.

Harikeśa: So that desire, that is equivalent, or is that the...

Prabhupāda: A child wants to play, and the father and mother gives the toys for that play. So without getting help from the father and mother, the child cannot enjoy. Similarly, we may desire but unless Kṛṣṇa helps us we cannot fulfill our desire.

Harikeśa: Is desire a function of consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless there is desire, how it is living? It is dead body. Stone, stone has no desire.

Harikeśa: The spirit soul is...

Prabhupāda: Therefore, spirit soul is described as superior energy. He desires and he manipulates the matter. Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5).

Harikeśa: It's very logical, step by step by step by step. Actually when it's seen from the point of view of the desire of the living entity, it makes perfect sense because he's got these senses and the sound, and then in order to hear, there has to be a vehicle for the sound, and then there has to be an instrument. And then in order to touch there has to be the vehicle and the...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: So therefore, from that point of view, it's very logical.

Prabhupāda: This is the point, you have to...

Harikeśa: Trying to do it the other way is impossible. From the...

Morning Walk -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: When... Happiness there is, not for the rascals, but for the intelligent. Happiness there is. Unless there is happiness, how we are seeking for happiness? Unless there is immortality, how we are seeking for immortality? There is. But the way in which you are seeking for these things, that is wrong. That is the whole education. Māyā muni sthitaḥ. Just like a foolish animal, he is seeking water from the desert because it appears there is water. But that is his foolishness. A human being he knows that there is no water, it is all sand. That is the difference between animal and human being. Therefore if the dog sees another, what is called? He makes a dog in the water, and he thinks another dog carrying a bread and he wants to take it away, so his bread goes away

Harikeśa: That's a perfect example.

Prabhupāda: He loses his own bread and there is no other bread. That's all. (Sanskrit) The lion he thought there is another lion within the well, and jumped over it. He lost his life, that's all. This going on. So, he's so strong, lion, it is fabulously strong, but he's animal. In spite of so much strength, he's an animal. Similarly this modern civilization, in spite of so much so-called advancement, they are simply animals. That's all. A big animal is eulogized by another small animal, that's all. Animal is animal, big animal or small. (pointing out on the road) Just see he hasn't got master, and what is his condition?

Harikeśa: Pretty bad.

Prabhupāda: This is śūdra. If anyone depends on the master's mercy, he's a śūdra. Here in New Delhi, these big, big buildings, big, big officers, as soon as the government will fail, they will be street dogs, that's all. Now they are plundering, by official instrument. Now when the government will be finished, they will be street dog. That's all. This is your civilization. Immediately if all of a sudden there is attack in New Delhi, all the people will starve. There is no food at all, and they'll die.

Harikeśa: That's a really important point that the government takes more and more, and everybody gets poorer and poorer.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The government is also poor because they do not know how to govern. Buddhi yasya balaṁ tasya. If one has got intelligence he has got strength.

Page Title:Unless there is... (Conversations 1971 - 1975)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:15 of Nov, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=60, Let=0
No. of Quotes:60