Prabhupāda: Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā (BG 14.18). If you develop your modes of goodness, then you go to the, promoted to the higher planets because in the higher planets, the third-class living entities are not allowed. Don't you see that in here also, in America, for permanent visa we have to undergo so many formalities? Why? The restriction is there, that American government cannot allow everyone to become a permanent resident here. Restriction. Similarly, in higher planets, only those who have developed the quality of goodness... The quality of goodness contains those eight principles: religiosity, truthfulness, cleanliness... So ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā (BG 14.18). Sattva means quality of goodness. So one has to develop the quality of goodness. Not an upstart, simply having a play sputnik, he wants to go to the Candraloka, moon planet. It is not possible. What quality he has got? He will immediately die.
Undergo (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. That means truthfulness is not there, diminished. The same thing. Because truthfulness has diminished, therefore you can bribe anybody and he can tell lie for you. We are in a very precarious condition. Very unfavorable condition. The best thing is to pray Kṛṣṇa, "Please pick me up very soon and let me go back to Your place." If you have to come back again, oh, you do not know how much misery we have to undergo. Because with the advancement of Kali-yuga, everything is becoming more and more miserable. There is no happiness in family life, there is no happiness in social life, there is no happiness in political life, there is no happiness in earning livelihood. Everything is encumbered. All impediment, full of impediments.
Prabhupāda: Demonic nature means they do not believe in God. "Oh, what nonsense, God. I am God." Although he's a dog, he thinks himself, "I am God." That is demonic nature. He is being kicked every minute by the laws of nature, and still, he is superficially thinking that "I am God." God is not so cheap, but they have made to become God is very cheap. If you pay thirty-five dollars to a person, he'll give you a mantra and you become within six months God. This is very nice statement and people will follow. Thousands and thousands will follow. But if you say, "Oh, you have to undergo much austerity, penance, regulation and tapasya," "Oh, this is botheration. We shall enjoy material life, and the same time become God." So these cheap things are exhibited by the demons. And when a demon is born, the natural disturbances are there. When there are natural disturbances, we must know that there is some demonic principle.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That I explained. For ordinary neophyte devotees... This is the highest stage. The stage of the gopīs or the cowherd boys playing with Kṛṣṇa, oh, they are kṛta-punya-puñjāḥ. Many, many lives they have undergone many types of sacrifices, austerities, penances, and then they have come to that stage. That stage is not ordinary stage. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam Śukadeva Gosvāmī says, itthaṁ satāṁ brahma-sukhānubhūtya dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para-daivatena, māyāśritānāṁ nara-dārakeṇa sākaṁ vijahruḥ kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ (SB 10.12.11). He is describing when Kṛṣṇa was playing with His cowherds boy. So he is describing that "These cowherds boy—who are they? They are living entities who have amassed volumes and volumes of pious activities." Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ.
Prabhupāda: Now for our disciples, we don't give anything cheap. Our first condition is character, moral character. You see? So unless one is accepting moral character, we don't initiate, don't allow him in this institution. And this Maharishi was, "Oh, you do whatever you like. You simply pay me thirty-five dollars and I'll give you some mantra." You see. So people wanted to be cheated, and so many cheaters come. They do not wish to undergo some disciplinary action, you see? Anything. They have got money. They think that "I shall pay," and immediately he'll get the money.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement was started by Kṛṣṇa Himself. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). In the Ninth Chapter, last verse, it is said, Kṛṣṇa says, that "You always think of Me." Man-manā bhava. Mana means mind. "Let your mind be always engaged in Me, Kṛṣṇa." Man-manā bhava. "Just you become mad-bhakta. Just become My devotee." Mad-yājī: "If you want to worship, just worship Me." Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: (BG 18.65) "If you want to offer obeisances, you just offer Me. And if you do like this, then without any doubt you'll come to Me." So this is very simple method. Always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. There is no loss, but the gain is very great. Suppose if I chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Materially I do not commit any offense or undergo any loss, but if there is any gain, why not try it? There is no expenditure. (laughs) Everything has got some expenditure. So this mantra, Kṛṣṇa or His later succession, do not sell or distribute. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, everyone. Dance in ecstasy. It is very nice thing. So I have come to your country, come to your place. It is very good. So my request is that you are intelligent boys.
Prabhupāda: What is that? Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ. All the sacrifices, austerities, penances, whatever people are undertaking for perfection, the enjoyer of such activities, Kṛṣṇa says, "I am." "I am." Just like your activities. This is also a kind of austerities. Your artistic songs, they have become popular because you have undergone some austerities. You have come to the perfection. That requires penance and austerities. Or any scientific discovery, that requires austerities. So every nice thing presented in the world, that requires austerity. Very devout, painstaking. Then it becomes successful. That is called yajña. Tapasya. So Kṛṣṇa says, "The result of the tapasya enjoyer, I am." He is claiming. "The result of your tapasya should come to Me." Then you'll be satisfied. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). People are claiming, "This is my England," and "This is my India," "This is my Germany," "This is my China." No. Everything belongs to God, Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-loka. Not only on this planet.
Prabhupāda: Just like... What to speak of ordinary man. President Kennedy. Oh, how much labor he had to undergo to occupy that post, how much money he spent to become president. But he had to quit his family, his wife, his state, his post. So this is going on. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). For sometimes we are engaged in this way; then again we are annihilated. Again begin another life, enter into another mother's womb, construct another body, then come out, then again begin work, again the same thing, digging and piling, digging and piling, again going away. Is that very good business? This is the karmīs. Karmīs means worker, fruitive worker. They want some result for their work. They are called karmīs. So the karmīs are engaged in this way.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: First birth by father, mother, is śūdra. Anyone, even if he is born in a brāhmaṇa family, the natural birth is considered as śūdra. But if there is garbhādhāna-saṁskāra, then he's accepted as born brāhmaṇa, born brāhmaṇa. Still, one is born brāhmaṇa, he has to undergo the saṁskāras. So our, this... Now it is known as Hindu society although the "Hindu" word is given by the Mohammedans. It is called sanātana-dharma or varṇāśrama society, who very strictly follow the four divisions, social divisions of varṇa—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra—and four divisions of spiritual life—brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. So our, the Vedic system is called varṇāśrama. Varṇa means the social order. Āśrama means spiritual division. Therefore those who are following strictly the Vedic principle, that family life is called gṛhastha āśrama. Āśrama. Whenever you add this word āśrama there is spiritual significance.
Prabhupāda: Why should you marry? Yes. If you practice brahmācārya, then you become free, seventy-five percent freedom immediately. But you do not want to undergo the austerities of a brahmacārī, and still, you want to remain as an unmarried man. Everywhere in the world it is going on. This is increasing. That is stated here, sadācāra. Naṣṭa-sadācāro dāsyāḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. The illicit connection with man and woman will certainly make him abominable, fallen down to this abominable life. I... When I was... In my younger days, when I was in business, so I was to take agency one of big company, Smith's Transit Company. So they had to... I had to give some guarantee of my honesty. So in that program the question was whether married or unmarried. Because unmarried man mostly become dishonest. So that inquiry was there, "Whether he is married?" Married man cannot be dishonest because he has got responsibility. If he is arrested he will be insulted in his family. His family members will be in difficulty. Therefore he does not commit dishonesty very easily unless it is absolutely... But that should not be done. But unmarried man, because he has got no responsibility, he commits all kinds of sinful activity. That's a fact.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Of course, to search out guru is very nice. But if you want a cheap guru or if you want to be cheated, then there will be many cheater gurus. But if you are sincere, then you'll have sincere guru. People want to be cheated because they want everything very cheap. But just like we are asking people no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. So people think it is very difficult, it is botheration. And if somebody says, "No, you do. Whatever nonsense you like do. You simply take my mantra," they will like it. So the thing is that they want to be cheated; therefore cheaters come. They don't want to undergo some austerity. Human life is meant for austerity. But they are not prepared to undergo austerity. Suppose some cheaters come. They say, "Oh, no austerity. Whatever you like you do. You simply pay me and I'll give you some particular mantra, and you become God within six months." (Laughter) And that is going on. So you want to be, if people want to be cheated like that, the cheaters will come.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa can satisfy His senses without any labor, but we have to satisfy our senses by dint of our labor. Not easy. You cannot become a millionaire so easy, or he cannot be a citizen in the heavenly planet so easy. That is our experience. So if some man from a poor family becomes, wants to become a citizen of America, a rich man, it is not so easy. You have to undergo through so many things to get the citizenship. There are so many, that your country, yes, they have got big immigration department simply to consider this application of different countries for citizenship, or to immigrate. I have seen, in Montreal, people applying for citizenship or immigration, big line, very big line, and a similar immigration department in Canada, there is no problem. So people very much anxious to become citizens in America, because it's a rich country. So as there is restriction here in this place, in this planet, that you cannot enter any other country... If you think their country is very nice, actually, in comparison to other countries, there are so many facilities in America. At least, one can earn money like anything. So people are inclined to become citizen. But that is not easy, even within this planet. So how you will easily enter moon planet and other heavenly planets without being competent? It is not possible.
Prabhupāda: So they are impersonalists, and falsely thinking themselves as Nārāyaṇa. Therefore we can immediately test that "Here is a rascal." Vimukta-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. "No. We have undergone so much austerities, penances. Whole life I remain brahmacārī, then I took sannyāsa. I have followed the rules and regulations very strictly, and still I am rascal?" Yes, you are rascal. (aside:) Don't make sound. Silently. "Still I am rascal?" Yes. You are rascal. "Why?" Āruhya kṛcchreṇa: because the symptoms are there that you are a rascal.
So you have to understand by the symptoms. What is that symptom? Because you left this world, "This world is false. Brahman is truth," then why you are coming again this false world to open hospital, school, philosophy, humanitarian, all this nonsense? Why you are accepting? If it is false, and if you are in full knowledge, then why you are coming to the false platform? Therefore you are rascal. You rejected this world as false. Then why you are coming down again to the plat..., false platform. That is rascaldom. That means your conclusion was wrong.
Prabhupāda: He is now in politics. He has got a political party, Rama-Rajya Party, and nobody cares for him. He is insulted so many place, but still, but he's so learned, if, if anyone, anybody goes and reads scriptures and Vedas, he can give very good reference and very nicely explain, but the conclusion is dull. Conclusion is dull means again he has come to this philanthropy work. So therefore Bhāgavata says, āruhya kṛcchreṇa: "Although they have undergone great austerities, penances," āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam (SB 10.2.32), "realized to some extent the Supreme Absolute Truth," but patanty adhaḥ, "falls down."
Prabhupāda: Just like Prahlāda Maharaja said that "Nṛsiṁha-deva, I am not afraid of your this fierce feature of Narasiṁha, but I am very much afraid of this materialistic way of life." Saṁsāra. Saṁsāra means this material world. So, it is actually very fearful. The whole atmosphere is fearful. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ (SB 10.14.58). To make adjustment, you have to accept something fearful. Just like this fight, "In future there may be some adjustment so that people may live peacefully. Therefore, we have to fight." This is also, the method is itself fearful. To gain a position where there will be no fear, we have to accept a fearful method. So, in the material world whatever we think, they are not very happy proposition, that's everything is fear. Karma-kāṇḍīya, they have to undergo so many hardship, then they get something profit. People are working so hard to get some profit. In the material world everything is fearful, hard-working. So, in the Bible it is said that hell or...?
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So just you follow in their footsteps, my other students, and it will be fulfilled, your desire. We are training to that direction, how to become purified and happy. That is our mission. We want to see everyone happy. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. But people do not know how to become happy. They do not take the standard path to become happy. They manufacture their own way. That is the difficulty. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattva yasmād brahma-saukhyam anantam (SB 5.5.1). This advice was given by Ṛṣabhadeva to his sons. "My dear boys, just undergo austerity," divyam, "for transcendental realization." Everyone is going austerity. This boy, I know, he had to go foreign countries to learn this commercial management. So many... So now he's good situated. But everyone has to undergo some austerity for future life. So why not take that austerity for permanent happiness?
Prabhupāda: That is forced austerity; that is not good. Voluntary austerity will help.
Śyāmasundara: (indistinct) ...if you don't undergo voluntary austerity, you must be forced to undergo...
Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) That is the difference between man and animal. Animal cannot accept austerity. But man can accept austerity. That is the difference between. Just like there is a nice foodstuff in a confectioner's shop. So a man wants to eat it, but he sees that he has no money. So he can restrain. But an animal, cow comes, immediately he pushes his mouth in that. You can beat him with stick, it will tolerate, but it will do that. Therefore, animal cannot undergo austerity. (Someone else speaks inaudibly about volume of loudspeakers) Yes, yes, reduce. (break) Our austerity is very nice. We chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, dance, and Kṛṣṇa sends nice foodstuff, we eat. That's all. Why your people are not agreeable to such kind of austerities? Chanting, dancing, and eating nicely? (indistinct) I see austerity, call my mother.
Dr. Kapoor: I came away. And as I was coming to Vṛndāvana, you see, I think it was by way of punishment, you see, for being..., for remaining outside Vṛndāvana for such a long period that the strange thing happened, you see. And Rādhārāṇī made me undergo a prāyaścitta before I came back. (laughs)
Śyāmasundara: A what?
Dr. Kapoor: You see, what happened was, it was the...
Prabhupāda: Prāyaścitta. Intonation, what do you call?
Dr. Kapoor: No.
Prabhupāda: Prāyaścitta, what is the exact English?
Prabhupāda: Atonement.
Dr. Kapoor: Atonement. So I was made to undergo atonement, you see. (chuckles) I was coming to Mathurā. I had to drop down some (indistinct) at Mathurā, and I had a trunk and bedding with me. (break) (Hindi), a big volume, about one thousand pages, that he had given to me for revision. So that thing was there, there was one...
Prabhupāda: Bengali?
Dr. Kapoor: Hindi.
Prabhupāda: Hindi.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. We say it is nonsense. In future, it is all right. You say, "In future...", but where is your method for future prosperity? That I am talking... If a child is getting proper education, then we can say that he has got a good future. But if the child is wrongly directed, then where is his future? A patient who has gone to the physician and undergoing treatment, he can expect in future he will be cured. But if he's lying down on the bed, and does not know who is physician, then where is his future? He has no future. So all these leaders, they're rascals, and who are following these rascals, where is his future? He has no future. They're all rascals. Anyone accepting: "This rascal is a great scientist." So his future is doomed.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That means there are some living entities, say for example, human beings. They come right away to the human platform without undergoing the...
Prabhupāda: Yes, Brahmā. Just like Brahmā. He is in human form only with four hands. He is the first born. And then he created other living entities. Brahmā is first born from Viṣṇu. He has got four heads, four hands, two legs, he can speak. It is human form. Then, from him other forms came out, marīcy ādi, ṛṣi, great great, saintly persons. Nārada, Kumāra. In this way, creation was there.
Prabhupāda: That is our problem. Either you become rich man or poor man, but you have to undergo. (aside:) Make the light. There is switch. (pause) So our position is that we are in this material world. George has sung that "I am in the material world." Yes, very sensible song. (laughs) He's good boy, realizing, he also... So this material life is not good. Material life is not good in this sense, because you have to change your body. Sometimes good birth, sometimes not good birth. Sometimes Englishman, sometimes cats, dogs. Because after death you'll get a body that will be chosen not by you but by the material nature. You'll create your body by your present activities, and nature will simply award you that body. So, so long we have got this material body, the four kinds of miserable conditions, repetition of birth, death, old age and disease, you have to suffer.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, any living entity, any living entity who is originally part and parcel of God, God is all-good, therefore the part and parcel of God is also all-good. But as soon as comes to the material world, he (break) As exactly like the same, that as soon as one is put into the prison wall, within, he is a criminal. Now he has to undergo the criminal laws. Similarly, because we have come to this material world, we have to undergo the material tribulations. We cannot avoid.
Mr. Wadell: Well this is a very long... We are now on a topic on which I should have to require or ask, if I put it more politely, much more time than I have. Now, I am a person with responsibility to my boys. I must go now and say our prayers in the Christian way, which...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice.
Prabhupāda: That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtani na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ (BG 9.4). Although you do not find Kṛṣṇa in somewhere, but His energy is acting, there. So one who has eyes to see how Kṛṣṇa's energy is acting, he sees Kṛṣṇa. Same example. Because the Prime Minister's energy is working in that office, so the Prime Minister is there present. So everything is demonstration of the energy. Just like you are in the room, you have not seen the sun, but as soon as the sunshine is there, you know that sun is there. You see the sun through the sunshine, although it is not that sun has come into your room. The sunshine, coming of the sunshine within your room, is sufficient knowledge to know that here is sun. Sun is there. That is the Vedic statement, that you can understand there is fire when there is heat. If there is light and heat, then you can understand there is fire. That heat and light is sufficient, now, what is the heat and light? This is energy of the fire. So when Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, "These material elements," bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4), earth, water, fire, air, they are My energies, so if one has studied Kṛṣṇa, then as soon as He sees a great ocean, He sees Kṛṣṇa: "Oh, this is Kṛṣṇa's energy." As soon as sees a big anything, fire, water, anything, He sees Kṛṣṇa, nothing but Kṛṣṇa because He knows. Exactly in the same way, as soon as you feel heat, you know that there is fire. You don't require to see the fire. But if you feel, "Oh it is hot, oh, there must be fire." This is studying Kṛṣṇa. And this is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to feel the presence of Kṛṣṇa everywhere. So everything requires training, undergoing the process.
Prabhupāda: No, we don't make that. If we make addition, alteration, then where is the authority of Bhagavad-gītā? We don't do that. And that is proving effective. Those who are taking according to the instruction, they're becoming happy. Practical. Without any consideration of time, country, people. Anyone is accepting, and he's becoming happy. And they are not expected to undergo very severe type of austerities. Neither prāṇāyāma or yoga. They are unable. Simply I have advised them, "With these beads chant Hare Kṛṣṇa sixteen rounds." They are chanting. It is very easy. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma... Sixteen rounds. It takes about two hours. And they're refraining from four kinds of sinful activities: illicit sex, gambling, intoxication, meat-eating. This much they are following austerities, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, taking prasādam. They are happy. Anyone can take. It is not difficult at all. Anyone. They are gṛhasthas. It is not that one has to become a sannyāsī.
Prabhupāda: Even Brahmā. He has got millions and millions of years duration of life, but still, he has to die. So anywhere in the material world, you have to undergo the material tribulations: birth, death, old age and disease. Here an ant's life may be for few hours, and my life may be for few years. So it is a question of hours and years, but one has to die. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16). "Even if you go to the Brahmaloka, the topmost planet, there also, you'll have to die and again accept another body." This will go on. Mad-dhāma gatvā punar janma na vidyate. "But if you come to Me, then you don't come back to accept a material body again." So why not try for that? If I have to endeavor for my next better life, so why not accept the supermost life, eternal life? That is intelligence, and that is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that you try in this life to get back your spiritual life and come back to Kṛṣṇa, the eternal home, and live there peacefully, eternally, without any disturbance of birth, death, old age, disease. This is our program. (Sound of guests coming or leaving) Jaya. (Hindi ) Oh! So whenever you find time...
Prabhupāda: Everything is, one after another, is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. So those who are responsible for giving up kula-dharma and jāti-dharma, and creating varṇa-saṅkara... Varṇa-saṅkara, just like brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, they are supposed to undergo the purificatory process daśa-vidhā-saṁskāra. So the first saṁskāra is garbhādhāna. So in this Bhāgavata it is said by Nārada that as soon as garbhādhāna-saṁskāra is not taken, immediately the whole family becomes śūdra. So who is observing the garbhādhāna-saṁskāra? Nobody.
Reporter: (laughs) Nobody.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. Correct? In this age of Kali, everyone is to be accepted as śūdra. No brāhmaṇa, no kṣatriya, no vaiśya. All śūdra, or less than śūdra.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, we see such examples, that one saintly person is living in the Himalayan mountain. There is snowfall, there is no proper place, still they live. Still, there are many. But nowadays it is not possible. Voluntarily, they used to go to the forest, to the Himalaya, just to tolerate these pains and pleasure of the body equally and engage in their own business of spiritual understanding. That is human civilization. Human civilization, that is described, tapo divyam. For the supreme spiritual realization one should undergo tapasya. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). It is the instruction of Rṣabhadeva that this body... Everyone has got body, cats and dogs and hogs, they have got body. We have also body. The kings and demigods, they have got body. Everyone has got body. But especially the body of... Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. In the human society. This body is not meant for kaṣṭān kāmān, to satisfy sense gratification with very, very hard labor like the hogs and dogs.
Prabhupāda: These are the processes to become perfect. Tapasā. First thing is tapasya. And nobody's prepared to undergo tapasya. And human life is made for tapasya. Therefore in Vedic civilization, you'll find tapasya. The brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, they were all engaged in tapasya. Rājarṣi, devarṣi. Bharata Mahārāja, under whose name this planet is called Bhāratavarṣa, at the age of twenty-four years, he gave up his young wife, children, and went for tapasya. Tapasya is the life of the human being. Not to live like cats and dogs. That is not human life. Restrained. Tapasya. But here there is no, at the present moment, there is no question of tapasya. Even one is ninety years old, he's still engaged in these material activities. Even a person like Gandhi, unless he was killed, he would not give up politics. The material activities are so palatable for the materialists, that even up to the point of death... In Bengal, there was a big zamindar. So his father, er, his sons asked him at the time of death, "Father, what we can do for you, last desires?"
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. No. A devotee never prays to Kṛṣṇa. They have to undergo so much trouble; still they never pray to Kṛṣṇa. They know that "Kṛṣṇa will give us ultimately protection. Let us do our duty." Tat te 'nukampāṁ susamīkṣamāṇaḥ (SB 10.14.8). When a devotee is in difficulty, he is not disturbed. He thinks, It is Kṛṣṇa's wish that I should suffer like like this. It is not suffering; it is my pleasure." Just like when a patient is undergoing surgical operation, there is pain, but he knows, "It is better for me." Therefore agrees, "Yes sir. You go on with your knife." So when you are surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa says that "I shall give you protection," so even in our distressed condition we must know that we are being protected by Kṛṣṇa. We should not be disturbed. Because we create so-called distress and happiness. Actually this world is distress. Here the so-called happiness is also distress. So why a devotee should be disturbed by distressed condition? Harer nāma harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). (break)
Prabhupāda: Ah! Ataeva śānta. There is śānti. You have to test whether by, by some desire, whether you have become śānta. That is not possible except Kṛṣṇa. When you serve Kṛṣṇa, then you will feel transcendental pleasure. Otherwise you cannot. Sakali aśānta. For mukti they have to do so many things, so many things. So desireless means to desire for Kṛṣṇa. This is the conclusion. That Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching: mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi. This is desire. "My life after life simply My devotion unto You may be fixed up." That's all. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the beginning He says, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jaga... (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4). "No, no, no, no," not this." Then there must be some positive. And the positive is: mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi. With simply negative, what you'll do? Simply negative? You must give something positive. Then you'll be satisfied. You are serving somewhere. You don't get sufficient salary. So you desire to give up this, this service. Resignation. But if you don't get any better service, then what will be the result of resignation? You'll starve. Again you'll go, "Master, I did wrong. Please give me that service." So that is... The Māyāvādīs' position is like that. They want to become merged into the Supreme. But that is not possible. After some time... āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). They undergo very good auster..., severe austerities and reach the brahma-jyotir, but there, everything being vacant, they cannot remain there.
Prabhupāda: That is not our life, to become an impostor. It must be real person. By training, yaḥ śāstra-vidhiṁ siddhiḥ, by training under the teaching of a bona fide spiritual master, the śāstra, and then you'll automatically, the more you become a sincere, I mean to say, servitor of the spiritual master, the more you become qualified to become a teacher in the future. Otherwise where is your qualification? You may cheat others that you are teacher, but you are not actually teacher. You have no lesson, no education. A cheating is another thing. But practically to become a teacher... Just like in a school, teacher... A teacher is appointed. When the certificate is there that he has passed M.A. examination, and he has undergone the training, B.T., Bachelor training, then he's appointed: "Yes, you can be a teacher." And then a bogus man, he can be... He cannot be accepted as teacher.
Prabhupāda: Machine. And he's very expert. He'll take three thousand dollars. And others will be unemployed. This is going on. And they are thinking: "Advancement of civilization." Advancement of civilization means "Exploit others and you become happy." This is advancement of civilization. "Others may die for such, out of starvation, and one man takes all the money and spends it for wine and women and motor car." That's all. This is advancement of civilization. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. This is Vedic civilization. "Let everyone be happy." That is Vedic civilization. And the demonic civilization, they're: "Let everyone suffer; I become happy. That's all." And Vaiṣṇava is thinking, "For my salvation it is already guaranteed." But he is thinking, "How these poor people will be saved?" Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). Prahlāda Mahārāja. This is Vaiṣṇava's position. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. He's unhappy by seeing others unhappy. For himself, he has no unhappiness. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Kṛpāmbudhir yas tam ahaṁ prapadye (CC Madhya 6.254). This is Vaiṣṇava philosophy. Vaiṣṇava shall work hard, undergo all tribulation, for others.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Divyam. Divyam means spiritual. Tapo divyam. Tapo divyam (SB 5.5.1). That is the instruction of Rsabhādeva, "My dear boys, you engage yourself in tapasya." Now, what kind of tapasya? Tapo divyam, for spiritual realization. Now, materialists, there are big, big scientists, big, big archeologists and so on, so on. They are also undergoing tapo. Without tapasya, nobody can become eminent. So they are also undergoing tapasya. Suppose one who has manufactured this atomic bomb. This is also tapasya. But not this kind of tapasya. Tapo divyam, for understanding Kṛṣṇa. To understand Kṛṣṇa, that tapasya required.
Dr. Patel: Shall I go further?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...prasannātmā. Brahma-bhūta. That is called brahma-bhūta stage. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. This happiness and distress is the cause of śocati and kāṅkṣati. Kāṅkṣati means desiring to have something. This is distress. And lamenting for something, that is also distress. Actually, this is the material position. When we haven't got the things, we desire it. That is also distress. And when it is lost, that is also distress. But by illusion, they take it. When they get it, they think that it is happiness. This is māyā. Actually, to get the things, he has to undergo so much hard... A man is given credit... Suppose he was a poor man. He has now become multi-millionaire. He is given credit. But he does not see that he has simply passed through distress. But he... By illusion, he's thinking that he's happy. He's also thinking, and others also thinking, that "He has become happy."
Prabhupāda: All the leaders.
- piśācī paile yena mati-cchana haya
- māyār grasta jīvera se dāsa upajaya
(break) ...must have undergone severe austerities and penances and developed his spiritual consciousness. Then he can be priest. Not any man with a sacred thread and ganta, belling, becomes a priest. (break) ...priestly class, all rotten class. In Christian world also—drunkards, nonsense, woman-hunters, and they are priests. So also in India. Any man with a two paisa worth sacred thread, he becomes a brāhmaṇa and priest. How the people will be guided? The priest... The exact Sanskrit name is purohita, who can actually...
Prabhupāda: Yes, senses. In that stage he cannot give up. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartante. When one sees that "This is better quality than the other," then he takes. Unless... Because superficially... Suppose because for becoming Vaiṣṇava, he has to undergo so many austerities. So ordinary man cannot find out that this is better life than that. So when he understands, "This service is not good; to serve Kṛṣṇa is good," then he can give up the service of māyā. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartante. Just like an ordinary servant, he is serving in your house, but if he gets some more salary in other's house, he gives it up. That is required. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartante.
Prabhupāda: ...to becomes angry by Kṛṣṇa is auspicious, auspicious. It is a very nice verse. "It is very auspicious that you have become angry upon him. He is getting salvation." (break) ...the punishment of Kṛṣṇa, one has to execute many pious activities in his past life, just to get the punishment of Kṛṣṇa. And what to speak of love of Kṛṣṇa, how much pious activities one has to do. If for being punished by Kṛṣṇa, one has to undergo lots of pious activities in the past life, then just see, to be loved by Kṛṣṇa, how much one has to undergo pious activities. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ (SB 10.12.11). That is described. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. Puñja means heaps, volumes, volumes of pious activities. Then one can come to Kṛṣṇa. Yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām. Nobody can come to Kṛṣṇa unless he has background of pious activities and one who has become freed from all sinful activities. Yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām. This is the qualification. (break)
Girirāja: (break) "...been pleased by his undergoing all kinds of penances and austerities, and he must have executed universal welfare activities for all living creatures. The Nāga-patnīs confirmed that one cannot come in contact with Kṛṣṇa without having executed pious activities in devotional service in his previous lives." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...double feature is not understood by the Māyāvādīs. If Kṛṣṇa has created the whole, so why he should be separate? He is not separate, still separate. (break) ...regularly this book Kṛṣṇa, he will be liberated, simply by reading this book.
Girirāja: (break) "...narration of the Kāliya serpent and his punishment will need fear no more the envious activities of snakes. The Lord also declared, 'If one takes a bath in the Kāliya lake where My cowherd boyfriends and I have bathed, or if one, fasting for a day, offers oblations to the forefathers from the water of this lake, he will be relieved from all kinds of sinful reaction.'
Prabhupāda: So this is our... because we are developing a different consciousness... Different... Consciousness is one, but it is being colored under different circumstances. And therefore we have to accept a similar type of body. So if our consciousness is cleansed, then we do not undergo the circumstantial changes by different species of life. That is required. In the human form of life we can do that, not to associate with the modes of material nature, but associate with God. That we can do. And if we associate with God, then we become liberated from the clutches of māyā. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. And our real business is how to get out of the clutches of māyā.
Prabhupāda: Themselves, they cannot. Even by instruction by the spiritual master or higher authorities. Parataḥ. Svataḥ, personally, or by others' instruction, matir na kṛṣṇe, they cannot become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Mitho 'bhipadyeta. Mithaḥ, or by conference, consulting, making a meeting, "What is the problem of life?" They cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why? Gṛha-vratānām. So long they have got this determination, "We shall be happy in this material world," they cannot take... Gṛha-vratānām. Gṛha means home and gṛha means this body also. Those who are trying to be happy within this body, material world, they cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha-vratānām. Why they cannot? Adānta-gobhiḥ: their senses are so uncontrolled. Therefore they must undergo the process of punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), again and again, the same viṣaya: eating, sleeping, mating. That's all.
Prabhupāda: So śāstra says, labdhvā su-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte: "My dear human being, please note. You have got this form of life after many many births, bahu-sambhavānte. You had to undergo the aquatic life, 900,000 species, the birds, trees and plants, two million. How much time it has gone by for this evolution. Now you have come to the human form of life." Labdhvā su-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte mānuṣyam: "This is human form of life." Artha-dam: "Now you can achieve success. Although it is temporary, but you can achieve the highest perfection of life. Therefore," tūrṇaṁ yateta anumṛtyu yāvat, "before next death, you be very dexterous to complete the success." And if you think, then what about my sense enjoyment? Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt: "It will be available any life. This life you spend for this purpose. Don't waste simply for viṣaya."
Prabhupāda: So it is confirmed by the greatest authority, and if we practice... This practice can be done in the association of devotees. And that is perfection of life. There are some conditions about self-control: no meat-eating, no fish, no eggs, no illicit sex life, and no intoxication, even smoking, drinking tea, and no gambling. And chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and thinking of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Very easy. And everyone can perform it without undergoing the bodily exercises, which is sometimes difficult for a common man. So one can adopt this bhakti-yoga process and become perfect. And this is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). If one becomes accustomed to this habit and at the time of death, he thinks of Kṛṣṇa, then his life is perfect. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran?
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you... Mām... This meaning, the flesh, is Sanskrit word is māṁsa. Mām. Mām means "me." And sa means "he." "I am killing this animal. I am eating. And he'll kill me and eat." This word is reminding that "You are killing this animal, and eating. So this animal will kill you and eat you." This is the meaning of māṁ sa. Māṁ sa khādati iti māṁsa. "He'll be given the opportunity to kill you." And when the animal is sacrificed before the goddess Kālī, this mantra is cited to the ear of the animal that "You are giving your life before goddess Kālī. So next life you are getting the chance of human being." So he's promoted. Because he is being killed before the deity, goddess Kālī, so he is elevated, and he's given the chance that "This man will become animal, and you'll kill him." So after understanding this mantra, who will be ready to kill another animal? This is the mantra. While sacrificing an animal, this is the mantra. The priest will say in the ear that "You, Mr. Goat, you are being killed before this goddess of Kālī. So your benediction is that you have to undergo so many lives before coming to the human form of life, but because you are sacrificing, as a reward for this, you get immediately human life." So he's not loser.
Vedavyāsa: We are speaking of the gradual process of self-realization, first adopting these brahminical qualities and going further and further. So he asks if he's missing, if it's not possible to become illuminated at once by God's grace, to become converted without undergoing these...
Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That will do. Yes, you haven't got to undergo this or that. Simply chant and it will..., you'll become perfect. So easiest. But still they will not accept. That is the difficulty. When you give the easiest way they won't accept. Easiest way is we are recommending the chant the holy name of God. Do it. (German) Not that you chant the name of Kṛṣṇa. You have got your name of God, you chant that. Begin that. (German) (break) Then how can I help you? There is (indistinct). You do not know.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Now, in the human form of life, we should utilize our intelligence that "This constant change of body, how it can be stopped?" And we should remain in our eternal body because I am eternal, but psychologically I am simply changing different forms of body, and at the time of change of body I have to undergo so many sufferings. To remain within the womb of the mother for ten months in packed up condition, it is a very terrible punishment. But for each new birth, we have to undertake this terrible suffering. Sometimes nowadays they're being killed. So to avoid all these dangers, one should try to remain in his spiritual body so that there will be no more chance of accepting material... Find out this, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9).
Prabhupāda: No. Atīndriya. You haven't got to use this material (break) ...enjoy the spiritual senses, one has to not only stop, but undergo tapasya, tapo divyam. Just like a man is diseased, he wants to eat, but due to the disease he cannot eat. So first of all, you have to cure the disease, then your eating will be a pleasure. And if you want to eat in the diseased condition, then the taste will not be proper; you cannot eat. A man suffering from jaundice, if you give him sugar candy, he will taste it bitter. The same man, when he is cured, he will taste the sugar candy as very sweet. Tapo divyaṁ yena putrakā śuddhyed sattvam (SB 5.5.1). You have to purify your existence by tapasya. And tapasya means stops material sense gratification. (Hindi) (Someone enters room) Ah, thank you. So you have translated in Parsi?
Prabhupāda: Then you must suffer from the disease. If you have got disease, you must undergo the... What is this austerity? Where is the austerity?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: If they don't accept the medicine, then they can't be cured.
Prabhupāda: Then they must suffer. A man, diseased, and he doesn't want to take medicine, then where is the...? He must suffer. Where is the cure?
Pañcadraviḍa: They say we're the ones who are diseased.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: Therefore, because you have no brain, therefore you cannot understand the rasas with Kṛṣṇa. That is spiritual; that is not material. Ānanda-rasa. Ananda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37). That is the Vedic statement. There is cinmaya. In the spiritual world there is ananda. You... You have no knowledge. You, due to your poor fund of knowledge, you think that in the spiritual world there is no rasa; it is simply void, negation of this rasa. Just like a diseased man. He is practiced to drink bitter medicine and pass stool on the bed and so many inconveniences, so if some of his friends says, "When you'll be cured, you'll be able to pass stool in the lavatory. You haven't got to, haven't got to pass stool..." Then he shudders: "Again I have to pass stool after becoming cured? Again I have to eat? No, no, this is not good. Make it zero." He has no idea what is the meaning of passing stool in healthy stage. It refreshes the body. We get good energy. That he cannot conceive. He thinks that "If there is passing of stool again, then it must be the same suffering as I am undergoing now in this condition."
Prabhupāda: "So then pay more money. Come on. You have earned money and give me. I shall give you food. And whatever I shall ask, you have to pay." This simple thing, more demand-price is more. Then why do you gripe, "Oh, everything is price growing, price growing." Why it will not? If I have got food, and you have to purchase, and I have got so many customers, I must increase. That is economic theory: more demand—the price is increased. And then you say, "There are so many problems. We have to solve first." But you have created this problem, rascal. And you shall must suffer. You have infected some disease. Now you must suffer. It is like say, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). The reason is that you have infected some quality of the modes of nature and you must suffer for that. How you can deny it? If you have infected some disease like cholera, smallpox, and when you are suffering, how you can blaim? You have infected. You must suffer. Nature's law is so strict that as soon as you infect a particular type of quality of nature—there are so many—you must suffer for that, or so-called enjoy. There are two things, suffer and enjoy. So you must have to undergo the process.
Prabhupāda: That was his only demonic proposal, that "We make staircase." He said that "Why you are undergoing so much austerities to go to the heavenly planets? I shall make a staircase. You will go."
Amogha: How high did he make it?
Prabhupāda: He never attempted. He simply bluffed, that's all. So demons' proposals are like that. Therefore it is a common say in, hearsay in the, in India, that rāvaṇe sarge sini(?): "The proposal is just like Rāvaṇa proposed to make a staircase to the heavenly planets." He was also very much advanced materially, very prosperous materially. Gold was very common thing. He brought gold from Brazil through the subway. His brother was king there, in southern America.
Prabhupāda: Therefore in Bhagavad-gītā it is said, idaṁ te na atapaskāya. Those who have no life of penance and austerities, don't talk with them. It will be a waste of time. You know that there is verse in the Bhagavad-gītā? In Eighteenth Chapter. Idaṁ te na atapaskāya, māṁ ca yaḥ abhyasūyati: "Persons who are envious of Me and those who have not undergone austerity and penances, don't talk with them." But we take the risk. We go even to these rascals. Because for Kṛṣṇa's sake, "Never mind, it will take some time. Let me try this rascal." Therefore the easiest process is that every rascal will agree to take nice food and dance. So induce them to come to us, dance, and take nice food. Let them come on this ground. And by hearing Hare Kṛṣṇa, gradually they will be all right. This is the policy. So far argument, logic, philosophy is concerned, they are beyond... Because they are animal. They cannot understand.
Prabhupāda: So we have to take little patience. That is preaching work. Don't be impatient. Let us do our duty on behalf of Kṛṣṇa. Even the result is not very appreciable, still we have to do it. This is preaching. Just like Nityānanda Prabhu. He was hurt by Jagāi-Mādhāi. Still, He determined, "No, these two boys must be delivered." This is the example. "Never mind, they have injured Me; still, I shall deliver them." And He did it. They became Vaiṣṇava. So our preaching determination should be like that, not that we are failure in some cases, and therefore give it up. No. This is our business. We must go on doing this. Failure or success, it doesn't matter. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said to preach. He never said, "If you are failure, don't preach." Never said that. Yāre dekha, tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "Whomever you meet, you just give him the instruction of Kṛṣṇa." He never says that "If somebody does not hear you, don't do it." No. Kṛṣṇa said that "Don't talk with the fools and rascals and those who are not undergone some penances."
Prabhupāda: This is the defect. Kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). Working so hard day and night, and only sex, that's all. This is life's enjoyment? This is a hog's life. And what else they have got happiness? We challenge them, "Except this happiness of sex, what other happiness you have got?" There is no answer. So this is being done by the hogs. Whole day and night they are searching after, "Where is stool? Where is stool? Where is stool?" And as soon he gets the stool and they have sex, that's all. Is that civilization, hog's life? And what is civilization? That is tapo divyam: "Just undergo austerities for realizing God." That is civilization. Work very hard similarly, but for Kṛṣṇa and not for imitating the hogs. Now, why I should be interested in for God realization? Yes, you should be. You must be. Why? Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattva: (SB 5.5.1) "By becoming Kṛṣṇa consciousness, your existentional constitution will be purified."
Prabhupāda: Even if you enjoy sex life, that is also limited for a few moments. But anantam. That is... You will enjoy it eternally. Just Kṛṣṇa is dancing with the gopīs. He is enjoying eternally. So you can join with Him. That information we are giving. Just imagine what a valuable service we are rendering. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattva (SB 5.5.1). Your existence is impure. Therefore you are undergoing the tribulation of birth, death, old age, and disease. But they are not making any research how to stop. Nobody wants to die. Why he is dying? Where is the solution? Can the psychologists give any solution, that "You think in this way"? No. That we are giving: "Think of Kṛṣṇa and you will become free."
Jayatīrtha: Jaya. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Well, dried up, but they must agree to follow. Otherwise, it is dead. (break) ...kārād bhaved dvijaḥ. Saṁskāra, reformation, that makes a twice-born. (break) ...na jāyate śūdraḥ saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ, vedo-pathad bhaved vipro brahmā jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ. Everyone is born śūdra, and by undergoing the reformation process, he becomes twice-born. The father is the spiritual master, and the mother is Vedic knowledge. First birth is ordinary father and mother. That even cats and dogs gets. Everyone gets father and mother. Without father and mother, there is no question of birth. That janma is śūdra janma. Then, when he gets second birth by the spiritual father, then he becomes a dvija, twice-born. Again birth. Then he is allowed to study the Vedic literatures. Vedo-pathad bhaved vipraḥ. And when, by studying, he understand the Brahman, then he becomes brāhmaṇa.
Sandy Nixon: What transformations does one undergo on the path of Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: No transformation. The consciousness is there. It is now filled with all rubbish things. You have to cleanse this, and then Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Just like water. Water is, by nature, clear, transparent. But when it is filled up with rubbish things, it is muddy. You cannot see very clearly. But if you filter it, all muddy things, dirty things, then again comes to the original position, clear, transparent water.
Prabhupāda: Ha. (break) ... putrakā yena śuddhyet sattva. Our existentional position should be purified. How? Tapo, by tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattva (SB 5.5.1). "And we are enjoying life. Why we should undergo tapasya?" And you are enjoying, but you are not enjoying; you are suffering. Even if you think you are enjoying, there are so many sufferings. That the foolish people, they do not know. Just like a healthy man, he thinks, "I am enjoying," but he does not see that even he is now healthy, he will be an old man, he will be attacked with disease, he will die, and still he thinks, "I am healthy." Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). Therefore the intelligent man will see that "Where is my enjoyment if I am going to die? I don't want to die, but I am going to die."
Prabhupāda: No. You cannot. Then why you are different now?
Harikeśa: It's my līlā. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Then if it is līlā, then why you are undergoing austerity? That is also līlā. If it is līlā, then why you are trying to get out of it by practicing austerity?
Harikeśa: Mahārāja Ṛṣabhadeva performed austerity.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Harikeśa: Ṛṣabhadeva, he performed austerity.
Prabhupāda: No, what...? I do not follow what you say.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually that is the fact. You have given up these four bad things, and what is your wrong, harm? Rather, you have become bright-faced. But they will not give it up. They think, "It is impossible."
Brahmānanda: They say we have just undergone some religious conversion and become fanatical, and therefore we have given up.
Prabhupāda: No, why don't you become fanatical? (laughter)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Although it says in the Bible even that one should praise the Lord's name with cymbals and drums...
Prabhupāda: They have no concern with Bible and God and everything. They are simply after sense gratification. What is the use of quoting about Bible? They don't care for Bible.
Prabhupāda: So the news was there that Jesus Christ, after crucification, he was alive, and he went to... (aside:) Not so near. And he went to Kashmir. So by the yogic process, in samādhi one can remain alive although superficially he is seen that he is killed. That is possible. Hiraṇyakaśipu did that. He was undergoing tapasya for one hundred years of the demigods. Their duration of time is: our six months, their one day. So such a long time he was undergoing austerity, penance, and thus he became perfect. So his body was practically finished by the earthworm, what is called, moths and ants.
Prabhupāda: The Mahesh Yogi, TM. Transcendental meditation. But I don't think they say that if you undergo austerities you...
Harikesa: No, that was in the beginning they were saying...
Prabhupāda: Oh now he has changed!
Harikesa: Now he has changed, because it was too unpopular.
Prabhupāda: It is business.
Bhāgavata: Rajneesh is also like that.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Very, very great trouble. You have not seen the yogis? Of course, there are some.... But still, they have to undergo very severe processes for achieving this yogic power. And a devotee, they kick it, that "What is this nonsense?" That is devotee. "What is this nonsense? What shall I do by producing gold?" And I never tried for making gold, but is there any scarcity of gold? I never tried for that, how to make gold. That Sai Baba is showing some magic power. What of the Maharsi? Maha.... He was also after some yogic power.
Prabhupāda: That is gradually. Gradually. If he cannot give up meat-eating, so, "All right, don't eat cows' flesh. You eat hogs. That's all." But the real purpose is to stop meat-eating. And that is also under restriction. "You can eat one goat. Sacrifice it before Goddess Kālī under such and such rules and regulation. Then you take one piece of meat at night." So any sensible man—"Why I should undergo such rules and regulation for eating a little piece of meat? Better give it up." That is the idea. It is not that encouraging him. What is the meaning of encouraging? He is already eating meat? Why śāstra should... The real way, nivṛtteḥ... Pravṛttir eṣāṁ bhūtānāṁ nivṛttes tu mahā-phalam. The pravṛtti, the inclination, is there. Now train him to give it up. That is wanted.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Purport: "Since every living entity is an individual soul, each is changing his body every moment, manifesting sometimes as a child, sometimes as a youth, and sometimes as an old man. Yet the same spirit soul is there and does not undergo any change. This individual soul finally changes the body at death and transmigrates to another body. And since it is sure to have another body..."
Prabhupāda: The example is already given: The child is transmigrating to the boy's body. Already given. Similarly.... Go on.
Prabhupāda: It is not my—everyone's. You are in ignorance; you do not know; therefore we are trying to educate you. It is yours also. It is not a personal thing. It is meant for the living entities. That you people, you do not know, that we are all living entities. There is slight description of the evolution by Darwin. But he's also not in perfect knowledge. The real fact is the..., I am not this body, you are not this body. I am living entity within this body. Just like you are within your coat and shirt. The coat and shirt you are not. Similarly, we living entities, we are within this gross and subtle body. The gross body is made of earth, water, air, fire, and the subtle body is made of mind, intelligence, and egotism. So we are within this. So nobody knows; there is no educational system, what is our real constitutional position. We are wrongly accepting this body. And that kind of acceptance is there in the animals. The dog also thinking that "I am this body." So if I am thinking like that, "I am this body," then what is the difference between the dog and me? We are educating from him that point of view, that the living entity is entrapped within this body, and according to his desire, he's changing different types of body and undergoing continually birth and death.
Prabhupāda: He's corrected. Benefit is he's corrected. After undergoing so many species of life, he is corrected and again he is brought to the human form of life, civilized form of life. Let him make his choice. If he again makes his choice, go down to become a stool worm. Go! That is nature's.... Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi-guṇa, according to qualities he has taken. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā: (BG 3.27) the rascal, being proud, "Now I have got this life, civilized life. I can do whatever I like to. Ah, there is no God." Then God comes as death and puts you again to become a worm in stool. That's all.
Hṛdayānanda: Purport? "Qualitatively, the small atomic fragmental part of the supreme spirit is one with the Supreme. He undergoes no changes like the body. Sometimes the soul is called the steady..."
Prabhupāda: (aside:) Just bring little salt.
Hṛdayānanda: "...or kūṭa-stha. The body is subject to six kinds of transformations. It takes its birth in the womb of the mother's body, remains for some time, grows, produces some effects, gradually dwindles, and at last vanishes into oblivion. The soul, however, does not go through such changes. The soul is not born, but, because he takes on a material body, the body takes its birth. The soul does not take birth there, and the soul does not die.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Killed means given poison. And the father, that is, my Godbrother, seeing this, he also took poison. This is the end of Gauḍīya Maṭha scandal. He was also one of the trustees. This Tīrtha Mahārāja was a trustee, and another Godbrother and this man. In the beginning, they were made trustees. In the beginning, Prabhupāda was to undergo surgical operation. So he was a little nervous, that "I may die." So he made a scrap paper, that "In case I die, these three disciples will be trustees of the Gauḍīya Maṭha Institute." That's all. So this Kuñja Bābu kept this. There are many long histories. So one of the so-called trustees was this Vāsudeva. So he died, his end was like this.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Maunam, like in silence. Mauna-vrata-śruta-tapo-'dhvavana?
- mauna-vrata-sruta-tapo-'dhyayana-sva-dharma-
- vyākhya-raho-japa-samādhaya āpavargyaḥ
- prāyaḥ paraṁ puruṣa te tv ajitendriyānāṁ
- vārtā bhavanty uta na vātra tu dāmbhikānām
- (SB 7.9.46)
"O Supreme Personality of Godhead, there are ten prescribed methods on the path to liberation—to remain silent, not to speak to anyone, to observe vows, to amass all kinds of Vedic knowledge, to undergo austerities, to study the Vedas and other Vedic literatures, to execute the duties of varṇāśrama-dharma, to explain the śāstras, to stay in a solitary place, to chant mantras silently, and to be absorbed in trance. These different methods for liberation are generally only a professional practice and means of livelihood..."
Prabhupāda: Means of livelihood.
Prabhupāda: Therefore so many Vedantists, they first of all, they give up this world brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, this world is false. But again they come down and they become busy in doing some philanthropic work, opening hospitals.... Why? If the world is false, why you are coming down again on this platform? That means they could not get any substance by their so-called renouncement of this world. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa, for going to that platform of siddhi, liberation, they had to undergo so much difficulties and austerities but still, even going there.... Just like these people are going to the moon planet and.... Actually whether they have gone or not, that is a doubtful thing, but the thing is, why they are coming down again? That is our challenge. If you have gone to the moon planet then colonise there. But why you have come down again and do not talk anything about. What do you think?
Prabhupāda: So if he does that, that is tapasya. Tapasya in the matter of words. Tapasya in connection with body. Tapasya in connection with mind. Vāco-vegaṁ krodha-vegam. One has become angry and he wants to express it by beating or something doing very..., but tapasya will restrict him. "No, don't do it." "I want to kill you." Tapasya will restrict. Vāco-vegaṁ krodha-vegaṁ manasa-vegam udara-vegam. "I am sexually inclined, but I cannot do it. This is not the time." That is tapasya. I am restricted. In this way, tapasya in every way, bodily, mental, words, practice, dealing. So these have to be learned. That is called tapasya. And that is human life. Tapo divyam (SB 5.5.1). If you want to make progress in spiritual life and you are human life, human being, you must act according to the sastric injunctions. That is called tapasya. Brahma, before creation he had to undergo tapasya. Is it not stated? Yes. So tapasya is essential. You cannot avoid. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Ritual is a practice based on tapasya. Unless one undergoes the ritualistic ceremony, he remains unclean. But in this age, because it is practically impossible to induce people to take all these ritualistic processes, therefore it is recommended that "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra." That is special advantage of this age, that by constant chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra he automatically becomes purified. That is recommendation given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). The beginning is cleansing the heart, because we are impure on account of dirty things within our heart accumulated life after life in the animalistic way of life.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but that is not surrender. When you keep yourself in your so-called duty, that recommendation is there. But when you fully surrender, there is no more karma, everything is bhakti. And because you do not surrender, therefore He is recommending that you do your karma like this. But as soon as you surrender, you are above karma. Sa guṇān sama-tītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya, you are brahma-bhūtaḥ. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). So long you do not surrender, He is linking your activities with Kṛṣṇa consciousness, "You do like this." Then one day you'll be able to surrender. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja, he wanted the kingdom better than his father, grandfather. So he had to undergo so much severe austerities. He got Kṛṣṇa.
Bali-mardana: He has to undergo a type of conditioning.
Rāmeśvara: Or training.
Lady Guest: I think he was defining his definition of intelligence in the spiritual realm as opposed to material intelligence.
Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda said intelligence means you accept the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness or you accept to be trained to be spiritually advanced.
Lady Guest: It's like an hypothesis.
Interviewer: Don't you find the whole Kṛṣṇa movement more successful in an age and era when there is such laxity of moral standards and spiritual leadership and direction?
Prabhupāda: No, at any stage of life, if one accepts the principles of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he can make advance.
Bali-mardana: Prabhupāda has undergone great difficulties...
Prabhupāda: After all, anything, material or spiritual, that is Kṛṣṇa's arrangement.
Interviewer: That is what?
Rāmeśvara: Kṛṣṇa's arrangement, after all. Anything material or anything spiritual, it's His arrangement.
Prabhupāda: What we say material, that is not aloof from Kṛṣṇa. That is also Kṛṣṇa's energy. Just like darkness and light. Both of them are related to the sun. Is it not? What is darkness? Absence of light. Is it not?
Prabhupāda: Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That kind of jñānī is very, very rare. The impersonalist means ajñānī. Yes. Because he does not know Kṛṣṇa, the person. There is another verse in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Āruhya kṛcchreṇa, by the jñāna process, is undergoing austerities and penances, one comes to the platform of paraṁ padam, monism, or platform of oneness. But because he has no shelter, he patanty adhaḥ, again comes to the material. Just like so many sannyāsīs in India, they are very learned, they have come to the platform of Brahman realization, but after some time they come to the material field for political work, for social work. They give up this world, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. If jagat is mithyā, is false, why does he come for social work? Just like these people going to the moon planet, but because they do not get any shelter, they take some sand and come back again.
Prabhupāda: Then spiritual understanding will be there. With dull brain, physical brain, we cannot understand. That is not possible. Therefore to spiritualize the brain, the senses, requires a process. Just like to keep a vegetable in frozen condition, it requires a process. Similarly, we have to undergo a process to come to this spiritual platform, to understand the spirit soul, the supreme being, God, and the relationship and the activities. We must adopt the process. And those who are adopting the process, they are making progress. Practical. So it is not impractical. Thousands of these Europeans and Americans, they, say, a few years ago, four, five years ago-say, at most ten years ago—they did not know what is Kṛṣṇa, what is God. But now you ask them, they will explain. They are not foolish, they are not uneducated. So unless they are situated in the spiritual platform, how they are sticking? So there is process, and the process is practical.
Prabhupāda: That Kṛṣṇa consciousness is developed when one practices according to the prescribed method,
- tapasā brahmacaryena
- śamena ca damena ca
- tyāgena satya-śaucābhyāṁ
- yamena niyamena vā
- (SB 6.1.13)
These are the process, tapasya, brahmacaryena. So it is very difficult for the common man to undergo tapasya. Little tapasya we have introduced, no illicit sex, no meat eating, no gambling, no intoxication. That is also become very difficult nowadays.
Guest (3): But is it not possible that we (indistinct) name of society for Kṛṣṇa consciousness and then they will be attracted more and more and they will...
Prabhupāda: When you want to attract people you have to show that you (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: That they do not understand. That as soon as you accept a material body, either a very rich man's body or poor man's body or any body, either brāhmaṇa's body or śūdra's body, to accept material body means undergo miseries.
Indian Doctor: But you have no choice to accept. By the will of God...
Prabhupāda: No, you have got... You can become free. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti...
Indian Doctor: Bhakti-avyabhicāriṇī. I have got that tendency, bhakti, avyabhicāriṇī-bhakti.
Prabhupāda: He sādhavaḥ sakalam eva vihāya, "Whatever nonsense you have learned-forget." Then what to do? Kāku-śataṁ bravīmi sakalam eva vihāya dūrād gaurāṅga-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāgam. "You just become devotee of Lord Caitanya. I am flattering you, I am falling down on your feet"—this is preaching. And what is Caitanya Mahāprabhu? Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). And if you do that, then what is the result? Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69). If one is doing like that, Kṛṣṇa immediately recognizes, "Oh, you are the best friend of Mine." So if you are recognized by Kṛṣṇa, then what you want more? You are undergoing so much austerities and... To be recognized by God. And God says that "Immediately I recognize you."
Prabhupāda: For this man who is offered this monkey's body, he suffers the inconvenience of monkey life. So his sinful activities are counteracted, and because he came to Vṛndāvana and lived in Vṛndāvana by the mercy of Rādhārāṇī, next life he will be... That is the glory of Vṛndāvana-dhāma. Otherwise what is the explanation of these dogs and hogs and monkeys in Vṛndāvana? If it is dhāma-aparādha, committing offense in dhāma. Dhāma-aparādha. As dhāma-bhajana, if one undergoes devotional service out of Vṛndāvana and one executes devotional service in Vṛndāvana, that is hundred times better. Similarly dhāma-aparādha also. This aparādha, when offense is committed outside Vṛndāvana, that is not so grievous as committing offense in Vṛndāvana. Dhāma-aparādha. So the punishment is there, but the reward is also there. One life makes pardoned. Tat te 'nukampāṁ su-samīkṣamāṇo bhuñjāna evātma-kṛtaṁ vipākam (SB 10.14.8).
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. God interferes if you are a devotee. Otherwise, you have to undergo the laws of nature. Karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām (Bs. 5.54). Karma, according to your karma, you are conducted by the laws of nature. Just like if you touch fire, the laws of nature is: it will burn. Even a child touches the fire, there is no excuse. The laws of nature will not excuse a child, that "This child does not know it has touched the fire. Let it not be burned." No. Ignorance is no excuse. You cannot surpass or avoid laws of nature. It is not possible. If you can eat one chātā,(?) and if you eat little more, then there will be trouble.
Prabhupāda: Always. Therefore it is said in the śāstra, āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ (SB 10.2.32), ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ... It is said, "My Lord, the lotus-eyed, vimukta-mānina, if somebody artificially is thinking that he has become liberated or merged into the existence, āruhya kṛcchreṇa, for which he has undergone very severe tapasya," āruhya kṛcchreṇa... Kṛcchreṇa means with great difficulty. Paraṁ padam, brahma-jyotir, patanti adhaḥ, "again he falls down," anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ... Just like these rascals that are going in the sky to find out a place in the Mars and in the Moon. And why they are coming back? If actually one has gone, then why he's coming back?
Prabhupāda: That's it. Similarly you will find the so-called sannyāsīs, not bhaktas, they undergo severe austerities, penances, but after some time they come to the worldly atmosphere. Because they could not get any place, therefore they come down. Just like the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs they say that this duniyā, (world) jagat mithyā. If jagat is mithyā, you have left it, then why you come again to give some philanthropic service? If it is mithyā, then why you come again after so much? Is it not nonsense? If jagat is mithyā why you are coming again to this mithyā? That means you could not get place in the satya. Therefore you come down again. That is stated in the śāstra. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam (SB 10.2.32).
Prabhupāda: That's it. Similarly you will find the so-called sannyāsīs, not bhaktas, they undergo severe austerities, penances, but after some time they come to the worldly atmosphere. Because they could not get any place, therefore they come down. Just like the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs they say that this duniyā, (world) jagat mithyā. If jagat is mithyā, you have left it, then why you come again to give some philanthropic service? If it is mithyā, then why you come again after so much? Is it not nonsense? If jagat is mithyā why you are coming again to this mithyā? That means you could not get place in the satya. Therefore you come down again. That is stated in the śāstra. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam (SB 10.2.32). Although with severe austerities and penances (he) might go to the paraṁ pada, patanty adhaḥ, anādṛta-yuṣmad, because he could not get shelter at the lotus feet of the Supreme Lord, he falls down. He must fall down to the material activities. Patanty adhaḥ. That is adho patha. As soon as a person, after undergoing severe austerities, becomes very highly elevated in the sannyāsa stage, but if he cannot get shelter at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, then surely he shall fall down for these material activities, material enjoyment. That is the sign that he's fallen down.
Prabhupāda: Body or no body, that is separate thing. But when you say individual, he is a person. And it is explained also in the Bhagavad... Kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta-cetasām (BG 12.5). Those who are inclined to the impersonal feature... God has got that impersonal feature. So they have to undergo more troubles to understand Him. And after going through troublesome business, bahūnāṁ janmanām, many, many births, then he understands, "Oh, vāsudevaḥ sarvam, here is the person." Everywhere this disease is very prominent, that God is impersonal. Perhaps this is the only movement in the world that's preaching, "No, God is person."
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Oh. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). This material world means this sex. That is happiness. And we are saying, "Don't enjoy this happiness like hogs." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). "This kind of happiness available in the hog's life, dog's life. Why you are anxious for this happiness?" This is our philosophy. Real happiness? Tapo divyam: just undergo some austerity for attaining Kṛṣṇa. This is our.... How they will understand it? Therefore they are thinking, "Unless there is brainwash, how this philosophy is being preached?" Just opposite. They are thinking, "This is happiness," and we are condemning, "This is happiness of the hogs." Actually that is.... Hog is also enjoying that sex without any discrimination whether it is mother or sister or daughter. That is going on.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The giving them bluff that "You become liberated" means "We shall exploit you, young girls." This is the idea behind. Because the karmīs, they want sex, young girls, and they get energy to work. The Europeans, Americans, they work so hard. They get energy from new, new girls. This is psychology, Therefore they work like hogs and dogs. Dog civilization. Hog civilization. Because the hog has no restriction, either mother, sister, or anyone, "Come on." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājām..., kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This civilization is for the hogs, to take energy by sex with mother, sister, and anyone, and work hard. It is stated in the Bhāgavata. I have not manufactured. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). And here is the civilization. Tapo divyam. Be brahmacārī, undergo austerities and rectify your, this conditioned life, birth and death. This is human civilization.
Prabhupāda: No, no. "To protect the Human Rights." Keep this name. What is human right? That we can explain. The human right is: here is an opportunity to understand God. So this society is giving that knowledge. If you don't give the human being the right of understanding God, then he's animal. You keep him as animal. The animal doesn't require, neither it is capable of understanding what is God, what is his relationship with God, what is his duty. He cannot understand. It is the only human being who can understand. And if you keep him in ignorance like dogs and hogs, that's a great harm to the human society. He got the opportunity. You don't give him; you withdraw the opportunity. What kind of civilization? By nature's way you have come to the position of understanding why you are suffering, how this material nature is working. "I am eternal. Why I am undergoing birth and death?"
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is worst. Because I am spirit soul, I am now imprisoned with this material body. It is my unnatural state, and I am eternal, and because I have accepted this material body I have to undergo birth, death, old age and disease. So that is my effort, how to get out of this material body and remain in my original spiritual identity. That is our whole propaganda. We think material atmosphere is our imprisonment, suffering. Material body means suffering. Otherwise I am eternal, blissful, full with knowledge. That is my position. But because I have been impact... (aside:) Again you have the same disease. Attention, you attend, draw there. Don't do that. Very bad habit. Immediately you sit down, you do it. You cannot check it. So actually this is our punishment. This is māyā.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In United States there is a group in Pennsylvania, and they say that they will not undergo any kind of normal education, because it is polluted, and they have their own education, and they are permitted. Even from six, seven years old, from first grade. They are called the Amish people. (some noise in background) That's not a door, Śrīla Prabhupāda. That's heavy dropping of heavy items.
Prabhupāda: Another point, in secular, the scientific knowledge, two plus two equal to four. If somebody says, "No, in our opinion it is five," will it be accepted?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I didn't hear what you were saying.
Prabhupāda: If two plus two equal to four. If somebody says "In our opinion it should be five..."
Prabhupāda: But if he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he may rise up to that position by endeavor. Then he will fall down. And I have given this example, Nixon and Indira Gandhi. This is factual. To come to take the post of prime minister, to become the president, is not easy job. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa, great hardship. Similarly, the Māyāvādīs, they also undergo severe austerities to become one with the Supreme, impersonalists. Any... I have given the... Karmī, jñānī, yogi, politicians, and everyone—everyone has got some aim. Many rich men, they commit suicide. So this is possi... This is the ultimate result of nondevotee. He may rise up by endeavor to certain position as he imagined, "This is the best position." Just like we are also trying to occupy the best position, to become associate of Kṛṣṇa, to live with devotees.
Prabhupāda: So this is direct process. Because Kali-yuga, they cannot actually undergo severe austerities, penances, vairāgya. Little difficult. Not difficult. Very difficult. But that is a special concession for this age. Because we are very fallen, we cannot undergo severe austerities, penances, yamena niyamena vā, brahmacarya. Very, very difficult. So Bhāgavata, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, recommends that "Kali-yuga is full of faults." Kaler doṣa-nidhe rājan: "It is a ocean of fault. But there is one great opportunity." Kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ. Specially for this age. What is that? Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ param: (SB 12.3.51) "Simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa he can become liberated and go back to home, back to God..."
Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, and later on, he did not undergo sur... He thought then doctor... After all, everyone has got sentiment. He thought it that "The doctor has been called to kill me." So he did not undergo the hernia operation.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He thought the doctor was paid off to kill him.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: 'Cause sometimes people were paid off to kill him.
Prabhupāda: So he did not go.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He wanted your blessings. He says... This is a very detailed chart he did. All the calculations are given. He said Śukra as Munteśa,(?) Varṣa-lagneśa,(?) has no directional strength. Therefore the solar return is not good. The lord of the sixth house is conjunct, maṅgala, not good. The following days are not auspicious: the 27th to the 28th of September, the 24th to the 25th of October, the 20th, 21st, and 22nd of November, and 3rd and 4th of December. He says, "Śrīla Prabhupādajī is at present undergoing the fag end of Ketu Mahādaśa, and it will last until the 13th of January, 1978. Ketu is in the eight house."
Brahmānanda: Means death.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The eight house is called the house of death. He says, "Ketu is in the eight house with the sun, which is the lord of the eighth house, and Krusu, the lord of the twelfth and third houses. They are all in the eighth house. Mercury in Ketu started from 16th January." He says, " Budha is the satesa also, disease. Śani has gone to the eighth house, which is the house of death, from the 7th September." That's the day you had your operation. "Śani as lagneśa in the eighth house and the transit over Jupiter and Ketu. The negative effect continues throughout October 1977, November 1977, and from the first of December, 1977, Saturn becomes almost stationary and becomes more malefic." Saturn becomes even worse. "In January 1978 until April 1978 it again traverses the same degrees and becomes stagnant on Jupiter and Ketu in the last week of February. The native has..."
Prabhupāda: January '77 we have passed.
Prabhupāda: Ketu, the most inauspicious.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it says, "You're presently undergoing the fag end of Ketu Mahādaśā, and it will last until 13th of January, 1978." It mentions a lot of things. I don't understand these astrological terms. I could read them to you. If you understand them, I can read them to you. I don't understand them. Just like I just mentioned Ketu Mahādaśā. To me that didn't mean anything, 'cause I didn't understand it.
Bhakti-caru: Pradyumna understands.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where is he?
Jayādvaita: In the reception room.
Girirāja: Translation. "Śrīla Sūta Gosvāmī said: Let me offer my respectful obeisances unto that great sage, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, who can enter the hearts of all. When he went away to take up the renounced order of life sannyāsa, leaving home without undergoing the sacred thread ceremony, his father, Vyāsadeva, cried out to him, 'O my son!' Indeed, only the trees echoed in response to the begrieved father."
Prabhupāda: Next verse.
Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Gītā, in one purport you say in the beginning when you undergo treatment, even when you're jaundiced the sugar candy is very bitter. These slight side effects are bitter for you, but if you keep taking the treatment, we know that that will eventually clear up.
Prabhupāda: This light massage he is doing...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: ...it is giving me comfort.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Light massage.
Bhakti-caru: You want it now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We will have one devotee get on in Agra to reserve a compartment for us, and then we'll board it here in Mathurā, and it arrives in Delhi at about nine-thirty at night, nine forty-five. So then we'll spend the night in Delhi, resting, and then the following morning we'll take the morning flight to Calcutta and Māyāpur. This means also that you won't have to undergo any strenuous journey to Delhi and then immediately take a flight. The train journey is actually much easier than a car journey, and then we get the whole night to rest, which is also good. So basically it just means we take a plane and then the car ride to Māyāpur.
Prabhupāda: So I simply go by car from here to Mathurā.
| Page Title: | Undergo (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 18 of Dec, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=100, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 100 |