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Uncivilized (Conv. and Letters)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 12, 1969, New York:

Prabhupāda: So śaśan ke adhikārī means they should be punished. (laughs) Punished means, just like dhol, when the, I mean to say, sound is not very hard, dag-dag, if you beat it on the border, then it comes to be nice tune. Similarly, paśu, animals, if you request, "My dear dog, please do not go there." Hut! (laughter) "No, my dear dog." Hut! This is the way.(?) Similarly, woman. If you become lenient, then she will be troublesome. So in India still, in villages, whenever there is some quarrel between husband wife, the husband beats and she is tamed. (laughs) In civilized society, "Oh, you have done this?" Immediately some criminal case. But in uncivilized society they don't care for court or civilized way of...

Room Conversation -- April 12, 1969, New York:

Prabhupāda: So śaśan ke adhikārī means they should be punished. (laughs) Punished means, just like dhol, when the, I mean to say, sound is not very hard, dag-dag, if you beat it on the border, then it comes to be nice tune. Similarly, paśu, animals, if you request, "My dear dog, please do not go there." Hut! (laughter) "No, my dear dog." Hut! This is the way.(?) Similarly, woman. If you become lenient, then she will be troublesome. So in India still, in villages, whenever there is some quarrel between husband wife, the husband beats and she is tamed. (laughs) In civilized society, "Oh, you have done this?" Immediately some criminal case. But in uncivilized society they don't care for court or civilized way of...

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 21, 1970, Surat:

Prabhupāda: There are 8,400,000 species of life. Out of that, human being are 400... Out of that, 80%, they are uncivilized. So all these living entities have no problem for eating. This 20% or 15% people who are called as civilized, they have problem. They have created problem. At least in India, say, hundred years before, there was no problem for eating, even for the śūdra class or any... No, there was no... The society was so made, there was no problem. Why fifty years? In 1933 or '36 in Vṛndāvana somebody wanted milk, some pilgrimage amongst ourselves. So went to a house. So, "Can you supply us some milk?" "Ah, how much you want?" So it was about ten pounds. So she supplied immediately, one woman, and when she was offered price, "Oh, why shall I take a price for ten or twenty pounds of milk? Oh, you can take it." That is my practical experience. Milk was so freely available. So simply we are creating problems by godless civilization. That is a fact.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: By the evolutionary process we come to the human form of life. When we were animals... We were animals also. We are passing through 8,400,000 forms of life—from aquatic to plants, trees, then insect, then flies, then birds, then beasts, then uncivilized human beings, jungle, then come to this Aryan form, civilized form of human being. So it is obtained after many, many transmigrations. And if we do not understand the responsibility... Just like in an establishment one man is promoted. His first charge is doorkeeper, then he is gradually he is given promotion; he may come to the post of the manager. Just like in bank, it so happens. They must go through all the different stages of service. So when he becomes manager, if he does not know the responsibility, again he comes to the lowest position. Again he has to strive for the top. So if we forget our responsibility and become like cats and dogs, then we are going back again to take the forms of cats and dogs.

Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: In human society the..., however uncivilized human being, there is the process of covering this private part. Even in jungle they cover with the bark of tree. Why? That is the human being. But an animal in the jungle, they do not care. They can go, the same jungle—I don't speak of the city life—even in jungle life, the aborigines, still they have got some cover. Now they are becoming naked, natural life, nudism. Huh? That John Lennon, there is a picture in his sitting room, standing naked. This is madness. That is not natural life. If you go against your natural life, that is madness. Just like a madman walks on the street naked. So these are... So our mission is to advise everyone, educate everyone to become exactly like human being. That you can become by understanding God.

Room Conversation -- August 1, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: The Englishman... I've studied Englishman. They consider America is still uncivilized. They say like that. (indistinct)

Devotee: Still uncivilized, yeah.

Prabhupāda: But here also hippy-ism growing.

Devotee: They've lost that old aristocracy civilization. Losing it fast.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, propaganda. That is the cause of India's cultural falldown. These Britishers simply made propaganda that "Whatever you have got in India, this is all allegory, fiction. These śāstras are nothing. But now you are learning from us England's work in India, that is your real... You are becoming civilized now. Otherwise, you are in the utopia, and all these śāstras, throw it out." Because that was Lord Macauley's policy. Lord Macauley was sent to report how Indians can be governed nicely. So he reported that if you keep the Indians as Indians, you will never be able to govern them, because they are superior. You make propaganda that they are inferior and they will imitate you and then you can... That they did.

Jayatīrtha: The Indians would never be able to compete on the Britishers' platform.

Prabhupāda: No. Under the British rule, from the childhood they are subjected to the propaganda. We read one book, small book, by M. Ghose. The subject matter was England's work in India. That was a compulsory reading book in the schools. And in that book, it was simply stated that "we are uncivilized, but since the Britishers have come, we are becoming civilized. "This is the subject matter of that book, "England's work in India." So everything Indian... The Jawaharlal is the typical example—everything Indian is bad.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Satī dharma. Yes. Formerly, even Arjuna's stepmother, Mādrī, he also, she also died with her husband. That was the system. The wife voluntarily used to die along with the husband.

Brahmānanda: Gāndhārī.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Brahmānanda: Gāndhārī, wife of Dhṛtarāṣṭra.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So later on such devoted wife was lacking. So the system was, some cases, they were forced to die. So these things have been elaborately explained in the, that book, and Britishers stopped it. So the Indians were uncivilized. Britishers made them civilized. Everything was misinterpreted.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: So there are 8,400,000 different forms of living entities. Out of that, 400,000 are human beings. Out of that, many are uncivilized. The uncivilized aborigines live in the jungle. They have no economic problem. They're also human being. They never come to city for food. They are maintaining themselves. The elephants are maintaining. The ants are maintaining. Why the civilized, a few men, they have got so problem, so many problems?

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They have actually come to me. They were attracted with Kṛṣṇa conscious philosophy. Therefore they have come to me. They did not expect that Indian government, although the money has been paid by them, and still, the Indian government is against this movement. They were not prepared for all these things. Unfortunately, these things are happening in India. We had no such difficulty in any part. Only the less intelligent class, they are... Just like in Africa, they are "junglese."

Guest: Uncivilized.

Prabhupāda: Uncivilized. A similar thing is happening in India where the civilization is supposed to be so... And actually it is so, but they have become so degraded that a responsible officer in the government, he is saying that "Bhajana is nuisance." You see. He has no knowledge what, how much valuable, spiritually valuable, bhajana is.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Dhanañjaya: In Greenland?

Prabhupāda: Others cannot live locally.

Satsvarūpa: That's not their karma?

Prabhupāda: No, karma is there. That is another point. My point is that any condition, one can live locally. That is my point. They are supposed to be uncivilized, and they live in the ice cottage. There is no sufficient things for eating. And how they live? That is the point. So why civilized man cannot live locall

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Also, the other day, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were telling us in Geneva that in India it was, at least until the present day forbidden to eat cows, and that those who would eat animals, they would eat dogs or goats, like this.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We recommend the meat-eaters who eat dogs, as Korea, they're eating dogs, so you can eat also dog. But don't... You eat it. After death. We don't say don't eat. You are so much fond of eating. All right. You eat. Because after the death, we have to give somebody, some living entity. So generally, it is given to the vultures. So why to the vultures? Take the civilized men, who are as good as vultures. (laughter) The so-called civilized men. Yes. What is the difference between the vultures and these rascals? The vultures also enjoy a dead body. And they also kill, make it dead and enjoy. They're vultures.

Yogeśvara: Śakuni.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śakuni, yes. They're vultures, and their civilization is vulture-eater. The animal-eaters, they're like jackals, vultures, dogs. They're similar to these animals, the animal-eaters. It is not human food. Here is human food. Here is civilized food, human food. Let them learn it. Uncivilized, rudes, vultures, rākṣasas, and they're leaders. Therefore, I say all fourth-class men, they are leaders. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition.

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Everyone has got obligation. Even the tiger. Even the tiger... One saintly person was in the jungle. His disciples said the tigers will never come and disturb in the āśrama because the āśrama head, they'll keep some milk little far away from the āśrama, and the tigers will come and drink and go away. He'll call, "You tiger, come and take your milk here!" Just like we call the dogs. They'll come and take the milk and go away. And they'll never attack any inmates of the āśrama. He'll say, āmāra ajni hana isko bolo naya (?): "They are my men; don't harm them." Yes. Tigers can be trained up. Just like dog. They are a dog species. More ferocious, that's all. More ferocious dog. That's all. So you can train them. I have seen in the World Fair. One man has trained... I think most of you have seen. One tiger and one lion. And he was playing with that tiger, lion, just like one plays with dog. They can be trained up. They can understand also that "This man loves me. He gives me food. He's my friend." They also appreciate. Just like this picture, you have seen, Haridāsa Ṭhākura? The big snake is going. The snake also knows that "He's saintly person. He may not be disturbed. Let me go away." And from reason also, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe... (BG 18.61). Kṛṣṇa is everyone's heart. He's dictating. So Kṛṣṇa can dictate to the animals, to the serpent, to the man, everyone. Such nice foodstuff. And mostly they are made of milk. These people, they do not know. They kill the cows and throw the milk away to the hogs. And they are proud of their civilization. Like jackals and vultures. Actually, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will transform these uncivilized men to real civilization. Their civilization is now compact in masonry work, collecting stones and bricks and piling them. This much, their civilization. Actually, apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). The explanation I gave this morning. They do not know what is ātma-tattvam. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. The external feature, material nature, they're interested. These scientists, these philosophers, the man, they're simply interested in the external features. Internally, what is important, they do not know.

Morning Walk -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Oh. So these Germans were tribe people, uncivilized?

Haṁsadūta: Yes, before Christianity, Europe was completely uncivilized.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Therefore the order is "Thou shalt not kill." Simply their business was killing. Uncivilized persons, they kill animals and eat. So due to past habit they could not forget this killing business. This is the proof that this system of religion was preached among the crude people, not civilized. So why they introduced this beer?

Haṁsadūta: It was a kind of refreshment.

Prabhupāda: But before that, they were not drinking.

Haṁsadūta: There may have been something like wine. The monks also used to make wine.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they make wine. Uncivilized men, they know how to make wine. In India they do so by rice boiling and keep it for some days. It becomes wine, fermented. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Now, now according to their theory, there was no human being. And from uncivilized man, they are becoming... They have taken to science, say, for last two hundred years. Before that, how things were going on without these rascals?

Madhudviṣa: They say, "uncivilized."

Prabhupāda: Eh? Uncivilized. And they are..., he was producing the soul, man? They're uncivilized? This, such nice... That is another exposal of their rascaldom.

Madhudviṣa: They say modern man is living much more comfortably than he did two hundred years ago.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

madhu: This is our advancement.

Prabhupāda: What is that comfortable? What is the comfort? Give me the example of comfort?

Trivikrama: Air conditioning.

Brahmānanda: Music

Madhudviṣa: Cameras.

Pañcadraviḍa: Tape recorders.

Prabhupāda: (Chuckles) These are comfortable?

Madhudviṣa: Automobiles. Aeroplanes.

Pañcadraviḍa: Well, they enable comfort. A person can lie down in his comfortable bed in his nice apartment and listen to music out of the wall.

Prabhupāda: But what about his death, how he uncomfortably dying?

Pañcadraviḍa: Well, we can't change that.

Prabhupāda: Then what you can change?

Viṣṇujana: But they can give you drugs to make death so that you don't feel it.

Madhudviṣa: Yeah, you can die in your sleep.

Prabhupāda: That is, means another death. You check death by death. That's all. These are all rascals. You are not yet convinced that these, they are rascals. That is your defect.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Britishers made so many attempts that "Indians were uncivilized, and we have come here to make them civilized."

Rāmeśvara: So for colonialism.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just to... Because there are other powers, so they are envious that "Why these rascals, they occupy India?" So, so just to support this occupation, I mean to say, yes, occupation, and..., they made so many propaganda. Even during Gandhi's movement, they engaged one American woman to write a book "Mother India." "Mother India." "Mother India." So the... In... That "Mother India" is simply full of stories where there are so defects. Suppose a priest in the temple is attached with some woman, like that, so many stories like... So one Punjabi, what is his name? Gobha, (?) Gobha. He counteracted that book—"Uncle Sam." (laughter) So these things are going on.

Madhudviṣa: Is that where that name came from, "Uncle Sam"?

Prabhupāda: Uncle Sam is the American word?

Trivikrama: Yes, yes.

Pañcadraviḍa: No.

Prabhupāda: And he described the American life in so, mean, badly.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Materialistic means that is the ultimate end of materialistic life. Because they want new pleasure, new pleasure, new pleasure, so sometimes this, sometimes that... Sometimes they think the civilized way is better; sometimes the uncivilized way is better. That's all, this way and that way. That is called punaḥ punaś ca... And then you'll take again to civilized way of... I think some of the hippies are taking now. Yes. Because the same example, stool, this side or that side, it is stool. So these materialistic persons, they are trying to change from this side to that side, but it is stool. That is the... That they do not know. They are accepting stool as something very sublime, and therefore they are trying to change the position, sometimes this side, sometimes that side. Hitvā anyathā rūpam. This is anyathā rūpam, means a living being. Being spiritual, his business is spiritual, but he has accepted material as the platform of his happiness. That is his fault. So material thing, either this side or that side, it is material. Bhoga-tyāga. So therefore he is not happy. And we are trying to give him spiritual platform for happiness. That is real happiness.

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: All right. You have made some technical advancement. That does not mean you are civilized. Civilized means the Aryans. They know what is the soul. That is civilization.

Paramahaṁsa: But we have seen in the Eastern countries where the people don't eat meat, they are at the same time very primitive. Very uncivilized, like savages.

Amogha: They don't have enough food.

Paramahaṁsa: No technology, no education.

Prabhupāda: Because you have plundered them for the last two thousand years. You rascals, rogues, you have plundered. You have taken all their money, all their jewels, all their gold, and made British Museum. (laughter) It is due to you. (noise in background)

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: ther animals and eat. You are so civilized. You are still in the crude form of human being, just like in the jungles, the aborigines, the Africans, they do not know how to develop civilization—crude methods, eating the animals. That also, they are not so uncivilized that they keep slaughterhouses. You are so uncivilized that you are keeping slaughterhouses, regularly. These Africans and other jungle people they eat meat, but they directly kill. They have no such civilization as to maintain a slaughterhouse. The tigers eat meat, but they do not keep a slaughterhouse. And you are civilized. You are keeping slaughterhouse. Why should you keep? The government shouldn't allow you to keep slaughterhouses. If anyone wants to eat meat, let them eat like tigers and others. Individually, kill one animal—a lower animal, not cows. This should be the government law. You can kill one insignificant animal, like pigs or goats. It has not very much use. You kill it in your home, before your children and family, and eat. The government may not have any objection. But why should you maintain slaughterhouses? So the agriculturist and the mercantile men, they should produce enough food, give protection to the cows, and if there is excess, sell it. Where there is not enough food grain produced you can make business. That is the instruction given in Bhagavad-gītā, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). That is really needed. Nobody is interested. Everyone comes to the city, the mercantile class. They are doing business, big, big skyscraper building, and they have artificial money, paper. And instead of eating food grains they are maintaining slaughterhouses. This is not good civilization. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: There are different species of life beginning from aquatics, fishes and animals in the water. Then, as the water dries up, then vegetation come. In this way there is evolution from aquatics to vegetable life, then moving, insects, reptiles. Then, gradually, birds. From insect, the flies come out, and then flies gradually comes to bird. Then from birds to beast, four-legged. Then from beast to human being. Then human being, the aborigines, uncivilized. Then you come to civilized life, which is generally known as Aryan life. So the Aryan civilization, Vedic civilization... In this way we get this human form of life, developed consciousness. Now we should try to understand, "What I am? Am I this body or something else?" That is the subject matter of enquiry. So where is that department of knowledge?

Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Hari-śauri: Śrīla Prabhupāda, are these cannibalistic tribes, Amazons and whatever, are they classed as subhuman?

Prabhupāda: They are uncivilized. They are human being.

Hari-śauri: So do they...

Prabhupāda: Human being comes to perfection when he is Kṛṣṇa conscious. So gradually they would have to come. Just like the bud of rose flower. When it is bud it is not so useful. When it fructifies, becomes a blossomed rose, then it is useful. Similarly, human being in other stages of life they are like buds. When they come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness then they are blossomed flower.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Ah, South India. Lobster and this, what is called? Labhanga...? Cloves. And these cashew. Cashew is produced in India. (break) ...big, big European companies for doing this business in Cochin.

Bali-mardana: They were set up by the British?

Prabhupāda: Yes, and Greeks. (break) Americans don't care for this business. They want machine.

Bali-mardana: They do not care for the clam business. (break) Europeans consider Americans a little bit barbarian, a little bit uncivilized.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Bali-mardana: Because they say that they do not have very much manners, etiquette.

Prabhupāda: They say boys, they are boys.

Ambarīṣa: Unsophisticated.

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. They are in the make-up, not yet fully civilized. (break)

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: So we are preparing so first-class preparation from milk, the neighbours they come, they are astonished that from milk such nice preparation can be done, hundreds. So that means they are not even civilized, how to prepare nutritious food from milk. Milk-accepting that cow flesh and blood is very nutritious, that we also admit—but a civilized man utilizes the blood and meat in a different way. The milk is nothing but blood. But it is transformed into milk. And again, from milk you make so many things. You make yogurt, you make curd, you make ghee, so many things. And combination of these milk products with grains, with fruits and vegetables, you make similar hundreds of preparation. So this is civilized life, not that directly kill one animal and eat. That is uncivilized life. You take the-accepting that cow's flesh and blood is very nutritious—you take it in a civilized way. Why you should kill? It is innocent animal. Is simply eating grass given by God and supplying milk. And from milk you can live. And the gratefulness is that cut his throat? Is that civilization? What do you say?

Jayatīrtha: Is that civilization?

Sandy Nixon: No, I agree a hundred percent. I want you to say these things, though, instead of me. I'm asking you questions so that hopefully that not by me describing anything...

Prabhupāda: So these things are uncivilized way of life, and what they will understand God? That is not possible.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: One must eat something. The nature's law is that sahastānā... Sahastānām ahastāni. And catuṣ-padam. That is the arrangement by nature's way, that animals, they have no hands. So the primitive life, so they become food for the primitive natives or uncivilized man. They kill some animals and eat. And why civilized man do so? He can produce his food. God has given him land. He has intelligence. Just like our temple commander was telling us. He has got immense opportunity... Just explain to them about you are producing with the farm.

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The British again.

Prabhupāda: Britishers were advertising outside India that "Indians are uncivilized. Therefore we are making them civilized. Therefore we should stay there. Don't object." Because United Nations, they were asking, "Why you are occupying India?" So they used to forward this argument, that "These people are uncivilized. We are making them civilized." (laughter) Now, how there should be Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose? Therefore they used to suppress always. Everything Indian wanted to do, they would suppress: big businesses, this mining... They would suppress. This Morarji, Sumati Morarji, her father-in-law started that... He had to face so many impediments from the Britishers to start the shipping company. Formerly there was no shipping company, Indian. Now, before that, there was shipping, not shipping company, but navigation was there from India to Rome, Greece, Turkey, there was regular business of spices and fine cloth. Later on, this large-scale shipping industry, that was done by the Europeans. So when Indian wanted to start, they would supress.

Morning Walk -- October 9, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. (break) (in car:) ...ments are there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam since the last five thousand years, and these people have become civilized for the last three hundred years, and we have to accept their statement or the statement which is made five thousand years at least? At least they discussed or they had some knowledge. You cannot deny that. They're giving description of all the planets, where it is situated. At least they had discussion. So they were uncivilized?

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: Yes. That "Later on, after the death of husband in some places the wife was forced to go to the fire, so the Britishers stopped it. And they introduced railway for going to the pilgrims and so many, and they constructed bridges to make easy to go from one country to another." And people took it very seriously, that British government is very nice. And they were publishing in outside country that "India is uncivilized. We are making them civilized. And as soon as they are civilized, then we hand over the charge to them. That is our noble mission." And they were exploiting. All raw materials was being taken away and the necessities of India, especially cloth, was being supplied. And the local weavers, their hands cut off. So many thing they, tainting… And everything bad. Just like Jawaharlal Nehru. He became a first-class victim.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: First-class?

Prabhupāda: Victim of European propaganda. He used to take "Anything Indian, bad. Anything Indian, bad." Not only he. Later on, all the so-called educated persons, they took it for granted that "Whatever is done in London, that is first-class, and whatever is Indian original, that is all bad." And they controlled the native princes. So many things. It is a big history, how they killed India's original culture. And then Hindu-Muslim riots, friction, fighting between Hindus and Muslims and dividing them.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: Oṁkāra is… Oṁkāra is sound representation of Kṛṣṇa. One who is unable to chant Kṛṣṇa, for them oṁkāra. Because there are many envious persons—they won’t chant Kṛṣṇa—therefore Kṛṣṇa has given them oṁkāra.

Indian man (2): And the swastika?

Prabhupāda: Praṇavaḥ. Praṇavaḥ sarva-vedeṣu. It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, raso ’ham apsu kaunteya prabhāsmi śaśi sūryayoḥ, praṇavaḥ sarva-vedeṣu. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Indian man (2): Swastika.

Prabhupāda: Swastika is also there, Vedic mark. Especially for the impersonalists. But we take direct, beautiful Kṛṣṇa, and worship Him. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: When did civilization begin? Well, the first men, they were uncivilized. Then, by little bit of intelligence they developed different types of tools and weapons. When, they have no date, though.

Prabhupāda: Therefore his civilization—so much, that's all. His standard of civilization, this much. (break) … no tree, even a small tree is considered big tree. (break) Man came from ape, so why man is not coming now from ape? Hm?

Harikeśa: It only happened once, and that was enough to start the whole thing.

Prabhupāda: Only once.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It had to happen at least twice.

Prabhupāda: That is another rascaldom. We see the flowers and fruits are coming every season. Why once? This dogmatic, we have to accept? Our experience is that by nature's way we find the same flower is coming again in the same season.

Morning Walk -- October 28, 1975, Nairobi:

Jñāna: A farm means also we may engage the people because they are not so...

Prabhupāda: First of all be engaged yourself. Then they will see the example and they'll join. Just like in our New Vrindaban. Other men from other farms, they are coming, and they are offered this milk preparation, burfi, sandeṣa, rasagullā, rabri, so many, halavā. They become: "Oh, so many nice things can be prepared from milk?" They do not know, uncivilized. Cut the animal and eat. A most crude civilization. When people were not civilized, they used to do that. Civilization means you know, you must know how to live very nicely. That is civilization. But they do not know even that. Simply eating meat and wine, meat and wine, that's all. And this is going on as civilization. They do not know what is the meaning of civilization. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). Real civilization means to understand God. Here is God. Who'll accept, either you say God or nature, that "You are under control. You are not free."? That, this dog's obstinacy, they will not take it. Like a dog. What is the meaning of dog obstinacy? He'll go on disturbing, "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" This is dog consciousness. How they can refuse, that "There is no authority"? They say, "No, we don't care for authority. Don't." But you are being kicked every moment: still, there is no authority? Just see obstinacy. Why you are becoming old? Every moment you are being kicked. You cannot remain young. You are trying to remain young with pomade, with some color, with some this, tea, wig, and... But you cannot, rascal. You cannot. You must become old.

Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is I am asking. Civilization means not animal. Man, human being, must not be animal. This is the basic principle of civilization.

Dr. Patel: Primary all are animals. They have to advance from animal life to further up. That is the civilization as you say.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that I say. So not to remain animal.

Dr. Patel: Yes, not to have status quo.

Prabhupāda: Still it is going on. The junglis, they are not called civilized. They are as good as animals. In India we say jungli he, jungli. And others say uncivilized. So Aryan, Aryan means the most civilized group.

Dr. Patel: But presently, sir, the Aryan race are spread the world over.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Dr. Patel: Right from... Aryans are spread the world over right from South America to...

Prabhupāda: They were, they were belonging to the Aryan family. The Europeans, they were also Aryan family, and Indians, the Arabians, Persians, they were all Aryan family. And the Americans they also migrated from Europe. They are also Aryans. But that is familywise. But actually Aryan means one who is advanced in civilization. That is Aryan. Therefore when Kṛṣṇa chastised Arjuna, He addressed him, "non-Aryan." "You are not talking like Aryan." Anārya juṣṭam. "You are talking like non-Aryan." (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So Aryan means advanced. The first-class civilized men are the Aryans. So that standard of Aryan civilization is to understand God, Viṣṇu, and go back to. This is perfectional. Yato vā imani (indistinct) bhūtāni jayante.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 26, 1976, Mayapura:

Devotee (2): The professor.

Prabhupāda: Hm. He has mentioned, "From the Vedic standard, we are all uncivilized. We Westerners are uncivilized." He has admitted that. Actually they are.

Dayānanda: Yes, they will be shocked when they find this out because the idea is that...

Prabhupāda: Now, just like a man is suffering from tuberculosis, and if his physician says that "You are attacked with tuberculosis," then he'll shocked. But the fact is there.

Dayānanda: They think that the Vedic culture is uncivilized.

Prabhupāda: They think because they are foolish rascals. They do not know what is the value of life. Big, big professor, he said, "Swamiji, after death everything is finished. There is no soul." Professor Kotovsky. This is their education.

Dayānanda: And then they wonder why their sons become hippies and act like monkeys. Even though they are civilized, their sons are acting like monkeys.

Prabhupāda: Actually we are introducing the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to make the Western people civilized. Yes. So you should take it very seriously and behave with responsibility. If you also want, become again like that, then how you'll be able to preach? Then what is the use of preaching?

Morning Walk -- February 27, 1976, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: A rich man no matter what his morals or character...

Prabhupāda: No, nobody cares.

Hari-śauri: ...he becomes very attractive.

Prabhupāda: Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he has no good quality. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). These are the... From the Vedic angle of vision, the Western people are the most uncivilized. Only money is covering them. When they introduced that mini-skirt for the girl, how much abominable it was considered in India. But they very publicly introduced.

Hari-śauri: Now even in India, slowly...

Prabhupāda: Yes. They'll imitate.

Devotee (1): When the prime minister of Canada, when he was, when he first began running, he was a young bachelor, very good looking, long hair. And he sent around girls in mini-skirts, kissing men on the cheeks, giving them a little candy for his campaign, and he, he almost got all the votes, became the prime minister.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: The child can understand, "Now, two finger and two finger, it becomes four finger." In this way we have to learn it. Therefore there are so many books. It is for the human being to learn. But if we simply remain civilized like cats and dog, then what is your advancement of civilization? There is no advancement. If you sit on this chair, and the others, they are sitting on the floor, sitting purpose is served. But if you say, "Sitting on the chair is civilized, and that is uncivilized," that is mental concoction. You have to serve your purpose. If by sitting on the floor you can understand what you are, that is civilization. And without understanding yourself, if you waste your time for manufacturing a chair, that is cats' and dogs' civilization. So that is going on. They are busy in manufacturing chairs, how to sit comfortably, without any knowledge that what is the value of life and what is life. This is going on. They are thinking that constructing big, big skyscraper building and motorcars and high roads and so many, so many, unnecessary things, that is advancement of civilization. No. Advancement of civilization is there when you know what you are.

Morning Walk -- May 25, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Tamo-guṇa is laziness. It is ass. Neither fire. Ignorance. Civilized man, they're working, making some material arrangement nice. That is mode of passion. But the uncivilized, he doesn't want to work. Just like this Hawaii was under the Hawaiians' control, they could not do anything. Ignorant, lazy. Tamo-guṇa, darkness, is no work, no reason. Simply like animals, sex-life. And rajo-guṇa, there is activity to create material facilities. And sattva-guṇa, "Why you are working? What is the aim of my life?" That is sattva-guṇa.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1976, Honolulu:

Devotee (2): They feel that there's actually no, there, there's no... First of all, there's no laws, there's no natural laws we have to follow.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Then why you are dictating laws, philosophy? That is the (indistinct) no laws. Why you are dictating your laws, that we should be communistic, this will be capitalistic, this will be socialistic? Why you are dictating? Let there be no law, as the uncivilized man does.

Hari-śauri: Well, there should be law, but that law is dictated by man.

Prabhupāda: Ha?

Hari-śauri: That law is decided by man in accordance with his...

Prabhupāda: Man will dictate law according to his own convenience. Well what about the trees? They are also living entity. You are cutting the trees and making it ugly, because they have no voice to protest. So why man should be given the chance?

Devotee (2): Most people think that if it's very confusing, and if their philosophy is very contradictory, then it's very profound. They think that if a philosophy is confusing...

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Duryodhana-guru: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Seventh Canto you mention that there are certain species of human life for whom certain sinful activities they don't receive any reaction.

Prabhupāda: Yes, uncivilized, they are like animals.

Duryodhana-guru: So they can perform, like, let's say for example, intoxication or meat-eating, and they won't receive any sinful reaction?

Prabhupāda: Yes, oh, yes. No. Because they are uncivilized. And you claim to be civilized and you are killing animals? Must be responsible.

Arcita: Śrīla Prabhupāda, those who come up from the animal species, do they automatically get a chance to contact Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or do they, might be born in low family, or...

Prabhupāda: No, they get.... Just like we are opening centers, we are giving chance to everyone. If he takes opportunity, he can become realized.(indistinct) Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā (SB 2.4.18). That is the duty of devotees, to raise everyone to the sense of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But if one is unfortunate, he does not take the advantage.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Where is that intelligence? Milk is nothing but transformation of the blood. So instead of taking the blood, take the transformation and live nicely, like honest gentlemen. No. They are not even gentlemen. Rogues, uncivilized. If you want to take meat, you can kill some insignificant animals like hogs and dogs which have no use. You can eat them, if you at all eat. That was allowed, hogs and dogs are allowed. Because no gentleman class will take meat. It is lower class. So they were allowed, "All right, you can take hogs, śvapaca." Lower class of men, they were taking hogs and dogs. Still, they are taking. So if you want meat, you can kill these unimportant animals. Why you are killing the animal whose last drop of milk you require? What is the sense?

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: No. During British period, high British officers, big, big managers, they liked Indians with original culture. They did not like any Indian with European imitation-pants, coats. They didn't like these imitations. My Godbrother, that German, Sadānanda.... You have heard his name or you have seen him?

Jagadīśa: No.

Prabhupāda: When he came to India, he was my intimate friend. So he was telling me that "In our country, when some Indian student comes, especially while returning home after their education, they stop for some time in Germany, we used to inquire from him how much he is aware of his Indian original culture." Because they have got very good respect. All over the world they have got. Even Russia. They have got good respect for Indian culture. They have liked our books only on account of the..., because the Sanskrit verses are there. They took it, "Oh, it is original." Scholarly people like our book on that account, because we explain original Sanskrit verse. That they have got very good regard, that there is knowledge. They're impressed. And Britishers made propaganda only that India had no culture, almost uncivilized: They push women forcibly in the fire after the death of her husband, and in the temple, the priests, they make all nonsense with women, and so on. This was their.... Just to prove that "India was uncivilized, and we are making them civilized. By our compassion for the uncivilized persons, we are occupying."

Hari-śauri: They used to call that the "white man's burden."

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. So these English people, they were very expert in making propaganda. They killed Hitler by propaganda. I don't think Hitler was so bad man. What do you think? You are Englishman. (laughter)

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam.

ahastāni sahastānām
apadāni catuṣ-padām
phalgūni tatra mahatāṁ
jīvo jīvasya jīvanam

The handless animal is the food for the animal with hands. This is the beginning of life. Uncivilized man eats the animals. Apadāni catuṣ-padām: these grass, plants, they are for the catuṣ-padām, four-legged. Cows, deer, goats, they eat. And those who are weak, they are for the strong. In this way, this is the nature's way. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. One life, a living entity is food for another. (dogs barking) Immigration department. (laughter) We have got passport. (laughter) That's all right.

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That is our proposal. Our real business is how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. So simply for improving the condition of life, the necessities of life, if I forget my real business, is that intelligence? Therefore it is said duṣkṛtinaḥ. Kṛti means merit. But merit is being utilized for sinful activities. Take for example the meat-eaters. When man was... The uncivilized man is still there. In the uncivilized way they are living in the jungle. They require to eat something. So they stone over an animal going, and the animal dies, and then they eat. Now instead of killing the animal by stoning, if you have discovered scientific machine in the slaughterhouse to kill the animal, is that improvement? If you think this is advancement, "Now we have discovered very technical machine. Instead of stoning one animal killing, it takes so much time, hundreds and thousands of animals you can kill in one hour," do you think that is improvement? That is going on. They think this is improvement. When we were uncivilized, we were stoning some animal and killing and eating, now we are, business is the same—animal killing and eating. But we have improved the machine how to kill. This is going on. This is going on as advancement of civilization. Hmm? What is your answer? Is that advancement of civilization? Now you are civilized, instead of killing the animal, you just take milk from it without killing and make so many nice preparations, and that is civilization. But killing is sinful. You have no right to kill any animal, even an ant.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says it is already fixed up. Sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha-yogena dehinām. This pleasure is the same, but according to the body... The uncivilized man in the jungle, they are having the same thing. And they are taking civilization that "Instead of living in that hut made of leaves, we are living in skyscraper building. This is advancement." But Vedic civilization says, "No. This is not advancement. The advancement is self-realization, how much you have realized yourself." Not that from the hutment you have come to skyscraper building, therefore it is advancement. Sometimes they misunderstand.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Hari-śauri: In England it was "How we saved India."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now who is saving India?

Rāmeśvara: They say the "white man's burden." They came to make India civilized.

Hari-śauri: They showed us this...

Prabhupāda: Therefore all the śāstras, they bring it within Christian era. Before that, India was uncivilized. And if they accept all the Vedic literature, so exalted, then they have to accept Indian civilization. That is their propaganda. Simply propaganda, that's all.

Rāmeśvara: That's why you say Darwinism was started by the English...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: ...to discredit the Vedic literature.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's just like a bunch of demons.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It seems like it's such a concerted effort, a conspiracy of all the leaders of the world.

Rāmeśvara: Greed conspiracy. Leaders, the bankers they say.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's another deep point. Scientists are pointing to the bankers, each group points to the other, and they all cheat together. Just like we used to do... (indistinct)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: These demons, Śrīla Prabhupāda, all of them are dehātma-buddhi?

Prabhupāda: Yes, all they have... (end)

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Harikeśa: Tomatoes don't grow in India?

Prabhupāda: No. It was imported. Because it was imported they would not touch. The mill cloth, because they were imported, no gentleman will touch. No religious function would allow to use mill-made cloth. And so far medicine is concerned, they would never touch it. This is the difficulty... (indistinct) sent a confidential report that if you want to keep Indians as Indian you'll never be able to do like that. Then they will gradually introduce all this nonsense, drinking tea, drinking wine. "You are uncivilized. Whatever British are doing, they are civilized way. England's work in India." And they were given facilities, those who were English educated. In this way, they first of all tried to make the whole Indian population Anglici... Not possible to all. At least, those who are educated. So the so-called Indian educated, they took it seriously. Just like our Bon Mahārāja. English way of living, with fork and... Yes. He has taken it seriously. He is under impression, whatever is foreign. In this way Indian culture was killed. The Muhammadans, they had no such idea. They wanted to rule over, that's all. And the money was not going to outside They were spending lavishly—in India. The money was in India, but these people, they're dispersing all the money, jewels, and everything valuable, outside India. So they became poverty-stricken. And culturally conquered.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Dayānanda: In our experience we have no understanding how this can be practical, because we think that meat is good for our strength. How can we be strong?

Prabhupāda: No. Therefore you are not human being, you are animal. If you cannot produce your food, uncivilized animals, they cannot produce their food. But you are given the chance of becoming human being, if you cannot produce your food, if you do not know how to cook food, how to offer it, then you are not human being. You are animal. When the uncivilized man in the jungle, they did not know how to produce food, they used to kill animals. So if you want to remain in the same uncivilized status of life, then where you are human being? You have got greater intelligence, you produce your food. Why should you kill animal like the uncivilized jungle men? Your action is just like jungle man, and you are claiming to be civilized man.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: How they can defeat us? We have got so solid ground. How they can defeat, these rascals? We consider them simply rascals and fools. And we call them rascals and fools. What do they know of religion? What do they know of God? They know slaughterhouse and killing and illicit sex, and killing the fetus. That's all. What do they know? They are not even civilized. We have come to make them civilized. They should understand. They are not civilized. They do not (know) how to eat even. The first principle of life is eating. They do not know how to eat. We are teaching them how to eat. They simply challenge, that's... When men are uncivilized, they do not how to grow food, they kill animals in the jungle and eat. When they are civilized, they know how to grow food now and the nice food grains, fruit, flowers, now why should say, "You eat the meat." The meat-eating is meant for the most uncivilized persons. That means they do not know even how to eat. They do not know how to eat. How to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex. Nothing. They're having sex like cats and dogs. No marriage, girl's friend, boy's friend, and then illegitimate... So many things. They should be exposed. And there is no harm exposing, in truth. Simply by manufacturing, constructing a big, high skyscraper building, does it mean he is civilized? It is passionate work. They can take credit of a good mistri, just like so many mistris, they construct. I cannot do. Does it mean I am less than him? I could not construct this temple. I have to call some low class, a builder and company, they constructed. Does it meant he is higher in intelligence than me? They are giving credit, "Oh, now they have constructed skyscraper building. They have constructed motorcar, horseless carriage." They are taking credit on this. But this is not civilization. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita has given the formula of civilization, three words: matṛvat para dāreṣu. Where is that civilization? To consider every woman as mother. Except one's own married wife, all women, mother. Where is that civilization? That should be, otherwise there cannot be social regulation. Matṛvat para dāreṣu para dravyeṣu loṣṭravat, other's property is just like garbage in the street. Nobody touches the garbage. That is civilization.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44).

Prabhupāda: Hm. A vaiśya means he should provide food. So food means agriculture and giving protection to the cows. If you have got sufficient food grains and milk, the whole food question is solved. And these rascals, they are not giving protection to the cows, but they are killing cows. So there is no third-class men even. All fourth-class. So how you can be happy under the control of fourth-class men? There is no first-class men, no second-class men, even no third-class. That means all fourth-class, fifth-class. That's all. This is the human society, combination of fourth, fifth, tenth-class men. Tenth-class. The fourth-class... There are fourth-class men and more than that, fifth-class men, uncivilized. Aborigines, they are fifth class. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18). There are so many. In the human civilized... Civilization means there must be first-class men, second-class men, third-class men, fourth-class men. Then rest all fifth-class, up to tenth-class. But at the present moment there is some fourth-class men and all fifth-class, sixth-class, up to tenth-class. So how we can be happy?

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But as soon as we say, "Oh, this is Hindu idea"—reject immediately. This is science, and they are taking "Hindu idea."

Indian man (2): The problem is that identification only. Otherwise it is universal philosophy.

Prabhupāda: It is universal, but they are taking it as Indian.

Indian man (2): In order to identify that, Vedic, let's say Indian, actually that is not Indian.

Prabhupāda: No, whatever it may be. Knowledge is knowledge. It may be Indian or American. It doesn't matter. Just like university. Some student from India go to university in America to study higher knowledge. So that means that because he has gone to America, that is American knowledge. Knowledge is knowledge. So they should take on this background, but they are thinking that we are spoiling their children, brainwashing, controlling the mind, because against their principle, against their uncivilized way of life: meat-eating, illicit sex, intoxication. This is uncivilized life. Why a man, civilized man, shall eat meat? He can prepare so many nice things. He has learned how to produce food, food grains. When they are uncivilized—there is no food; they do not know how to grow food—they can eat animal in the jungle. But if after becoming civilized, if you are eating the same thing, then what is the difference between civilization and not civilization? You have learned. And especially in your America you can get all nice foodstuff. You have got sufficient grains, sufficient fruits, sufficient vegetables, sufficient... Everything sufficient. Why you should eat meat? This is uncivilized life. They could not give up the uncivilized way of life. And when you teach that "You become civilized. Give up this all nonsense. Don't eat." "Oh, it is brainwashing." You see? We are teaching them to become civilized, and they are taking it brainwashing.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Dr. Kneupper: Is that a teaching of the Bhagavad-gītā, that one should not eat meat?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not... Meat-eating is third-class man's eating. It is not denied. Amedhya. But to give us our life, don't kill cows, because it gives you milk, very substantial food. If you want to eat meat, you can eat the hogs and dogs. But don't kill the cows. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). This is special. It is not forbidding meat-eating, but don't eat cows' flesh. That is loss. It is a great loss to the human society. If they do not have sufficient milk production, then their brain will be dull. They will not be able to understand subtle things. Therefore it is better to avoid it. But if you cannot avoid, you can eat some inferior, useless animals. But don't touch the cows. This is Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, go-rakṣya. He never says, "Pig rakṣya." You can eat pig. You can eat the goats, the lambs. There are so many small useless animals. They are eating dogs also. The Chinese people, they eat dogs. So you can eat dogs, hogs, so many other animals. But don't touch the cows. This is God's instruction. And they are advertising that "These Hindus, they are so fool, they are worshiping an animal, a cow." They do not know what is the economic value of this cow. In the beginning of your life you want milk immediately in the morning. And you are killing the mother? You are civilized? Do you think? You take milk up to the point of death. In South Africa, before killing the cows, they drag out milk and then send it. Milk is important, but because they are uncivilized, they do this. You take milk. Instead of killing, you prepare so many nice things from milk which is good for brain, good for intelligence. But they do not know because uncivilized. Foolish fourth-class men. So we are trying to bring them to become first-class men, and they are accusing of brainwash. "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." We are teaching that "These boys, they are becoming first-class." Anyone will worship them. How nice they look, how behavior, how their character. We are creating this, and they are accusing, "Oh, they are kidnapping our children." Why you are going? Eh? Why you are going?

Indian man (2): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? So this is our position. Now you are philosophers. You try to understand the whole philosophy and combine together. People have become all fourth-class, tenth-class, uncivilized men. They should be given the idea of God consciousness. I don't say only in Western country. Everywhere this is the problem, all fourth-class men. So there is possibility to bring the fourth-class men to the first-class. That is educational. It can be done. There is no difficulty. So this is the education, how to make fourth-class men or fifth-class men to come to the first-class standard.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Dr. Kneupper: But I mean now, when they make these confrontations and give you these difficulties, perhaps it will give your people a chance to teach them and clarify...

Prabhupāda: Well, that we are doing, but this is the opposition. That our boys are trained up. They are trying to meet the opposition. But my point is that such a nice thing we are giving. Why they should oppose? That means uncivilized. Why good thing should be opposed? They say, "In God We Trust," and we are speaking of God only. We have no other business, and they are opposing. And they write, "In God We Trust." Hypocrisy. "If we believe in God, we trust in God, all right, they are talking of God. Let us hear."

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: British time. That hold has become stronger. If we do not eat West, particularly America, then we are called "uncivilized." So to prove that I am civilized, there are three things. I must speak English, my children must go to missionary or convent schools, we must adopt Western customs and etiquette, and we must adopt their eating habits. Now if I'm not accepted in the American society... Even the British is now called uncivilized comparatively. If I'm not accepted by the Americans, that, "Yes, I know the standards and I live like them or even better than them," then I am supposed to be common. This is the conception of civilization amongst the Marwaris and the Gujaratis of the richer class. Previously it used to be, as they say of ancient India, that if one did not speak Sanskrit he was supposed to be uncivilized.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Milk is so abundant. You do not know how to utilize milk. You are cutting the poor animal and the rotten flesh you are... You do not know how to utilize the milk. Milk is nothing but blood. Those who are eating, drinking milk with different varieties of preparation, they are also utilizing the blood. But you are drinking blood and flesh directly. You do not know how to keep the animals alive and supply you constantly the blood and eat it.(?) (Utilize?) That you do not know. You are so uncivilized. The man in the jungle, they eat meat because they do not know—they are not civilized—how to utilize the by-products. So you're now in the same position. You do not know how to utilize the blood of cow scientifically. You are so uncivilized. You become... What is milk? The milk is nothing but blood.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Milk is transformed from the blood. That's a fact. Now our cows in New Vrindaban, they are supplying more milk than in other farms. So you do not know how to utilize blood. You are so uncivilized. And you are claiming to be civilized. You are untouchable. You do not know what is the... Yes, in our New Vrindaban the men from other farms, they come. They are surprised. "Milk can give, this much?"(?) You know that? They are uncivilized, cutthroat. And therefore they are now eating better. You are not civilized. Don't talk of anything. First of all be civilized. Give up sin, sinful activities. Then come to understand what is God.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: They have become Kṛṣṇa conscious from the very beginning. That is the perfection of life. They are perfect from the very beginning of their life. And you are going to school, college; you are becoming most uncivilized, cats and dogs. So what is the value of this education? Phalena means result. Result is hippie. So what is the use of Western... Stop all these colleges and universities. The sooner they are stopped, it is better for the human beings. We want to stop it.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's plan.

Rāmeśvara: ...effect. By just your coming to America, the whole place is transformed. Sometimes we think that when you look at these dates that Lord Caitanya came to the world, it coincides with a period in the Western world called the Renaissance. During this period of the Renaissance there was the highest development of art and literature and so many other cultural things. So we sometimes wonder there must be some...

Prabhupāda: Does it mean that before that, the Europeans were uncivilized?

Rāmeśvara: They were, actually considered themselves to be in the Dark Ages. They call it the Dark Ages. And then, all of a sudden, there was what they call the Renaissance, where man's intelligence became greater, expanded. He became interested in finer things.

Prabhupāda: Not man, but the Westerners.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, Westerners.

Prabhupāda: Intelligent stock was there in India,

Rāmeśvara: Yes. So it's very amazing that the period in Europe called the Renaissance coincides with the appearance of Lord Caitanya.

Prabhupāda: Fifteenth century.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. So we're thinking that it must be because He came into this world, then everyone was blessed.

Prabhupāda: Pāpī tāpī jāta chilo, hari-nāme uddharilo. That is the beginning. And He enthused Indians, "Take this knowledge and distribute." Bhārata bhūmite haila manuṣya janma yāra (CC Adi 9.41). That is Kṛṣṇa Caitanya.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Christ also went, came to India.

Rāmeśvara: That is not believed in the West.

Prabhupāda: That is to keep their prestigious position.

Gargamuni: Many scholars... There's a place in Kashmir where they say his samādhi is there.

Rāmeśvara: There is a period of years which no one can account for.

Prabhupāda: No, even from Christian religion it is proved how uncivilized were the Westerners. "Thou shall not kill." Now, how uncivilized they were. Even they take it the human killing, it is meant, not animal killing. So what kind of society it is?

Hari-śauri: Don't kill human beings.

Rāmeśvara: Well, that's accepted, that it's very uncivilized in those times.

Prabhupāda: And the result was that Christ was killed first. Who advised not to kill, they were so civilized that "Kill him first." So this is the proof. Why he said, "Thou shall not kill"? That means the society was so ravaged that they're killing one another.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: In Australia they've only got thirteen million people in the whole country, and it's bigger than America. And in Canada also, they only have a few million. And in Russia they don't have such a big population for the size of the land. But because they've set up these national divisions, then in one place they're killing the population...

Prabhupāda: No... Vedic process is that unless you create nice children or you can give them protection from death, don't create children. Brahmacārī. Remain brahmacārī. That is sensible, that "Why shall I beget children like cats and dogs if I cannot take care of them properly?" That is very gentlemanly. What is this? I create and kill? Most uncivilized. Don't create. That is civilized man. "If I cannot take care of them properly, I'll not create children."

Gargamuni: They're not educating the population in brahmācārya.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: Therefore these beggars are there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is gentlemanly, that "Why shall I take responsibility of family if I cannot maintain them properly?" That is very gentlemanly. That is civilization. "And I accept so-called family for sense gratification; I cannot maintain them and kill them"—what is this? Is that civilization? They should be ashamed to be called civilized men. Here is civilized way. Preach this because the Vedic civilization is real civilization. "You are not civilized. You have killed Jesus Christ who instructed, 'Thou shall not kill.' So you should be ashamed of your present civilization. It is... Brainwash is required."

Gargamuni: (laughs) Say that, yes. We're brainwashing, washing their brain.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And all these rubbish things we are finishing. "Yes, it is brainwashing, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), cleansing the core of the heart, all mistaken ideas." Speak in the court like that. "And see how we are being appreciated by scholarly section. Here is our book. Read if you have got time and see the opinion. It is really brainwashing, but for the good. Everything requires cleansing—for good. If bad impression, bad ideas, are washed, why do you protest? Let it be done. Give us freedom. It is brainwashing, but for the good, washing for good. Just like you wash your cloth. Do you think it is bad? Dirty cloth, if it is washed nicely with soap and water, who will protest against that? 'Oh, why you are cleansing your dirty clothes?' That is another foolishness. Everyone, every gentleman, every civilized man, washes his clothes with soap and water to become more refreshed. So we are giving this civilization... Actually it is brainwashing, but for the good. And see our example. The boys and girls whom you are charging, 'Brainwash,' just see after brainwashing, how gentleman they have become. They have become moralist. They have become God conscious. They are clean outwardly. Their fooding is so innocent and so nutritious.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: They don't have any culture.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When the British came here, they saw people sitting on the floor, they said, "Oh, uncivilized."

Prabhupāda: No, no. The British policy was that "If you keep the Hindus as Hindu, it will not be possible to rule over them." That was their policy. Therefore, from the very beginning childhood, everything Indian condemned.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So this is the same mentality in America now. They are seeing us... Just like the gurukula, their opinion of gurukula—"Oh, children are getting up early? Forced to get up early? Forced to eat on the floor? Not being given proper diet?"

Hari-śauri: "Don't sleep on beds?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Same mentality as the British had when they came here.

Prabhupāda: But India, there is no such objection.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: None at all. Rather, they like our movement. So we should concentrate a lot of our energy here.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fearful.

Prabhupāda: And just see result. Cannot believe in faith(?). Human being. And dogs are so trained... You have not seen the dog. It is within the house. You're passing, they'll bark, unnaturally disturbing. You cannot peacefully walk on the street.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes they attack people.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They do not like people should walk on the street.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And neither you can, because their stool is everywhere.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Strewn all over.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And if you tell them to walk..., curb the dog, they get very angry: "Oh, you have insulted me." They demand that you respect their dog.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you ask him to take care of his dog, he feels insulted.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Remember in the park? In Central Park we were walking. That woman was very angry.

Prabhupāda: Most uncivilized. So this will finish. This will not stay. It is already being finished by this Communist country. Only hope is this, if they want to be saved.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Many people are beginning to realize the important part that this movement is going to play. A number of our enemies in New York said that this movement is the greatest threat to modern civilization.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Many of our enemies in that brainwash case, they are starting to say, "This Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is the greatest threat to our modern civilization."

Prabhupāda: They?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Oh, yes, they said it. In the newspaper it was reported.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they say, "It is spreading like epidemic."

Evening Darsana -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa has given so much nice thing in Australia, and they are doing killing business? Just see how much fallen.

Bhāgavata: The hive of the bee is still inside. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: They can eat so many nice things.

Trivikrama: Now you must get appetite, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: This is their civilization. They have got so nice thing to eat, but they are making business by killing. How much insane. Killing is done by the uncivilized men when they are hungry. But when there are so many things to eat, why they should kill? And that is not for themselves. For others.

Hari-śauri: More ghee.

Prabhupāda: Huh? No, no, Australia can produce huge quantity of ghee. What is the price generally?

Room Conversation -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No consideration. Kill them. Due to Paraśurāma, the kṣatriyas went to European side, fled away. From India either they were driven away or killed when they become inconsistent with Vedic rules. So these kṣatriyas and associates... These parts of the world were resided by aborigines, mean uncivilized class. So for so many years associated with them, they have learned killing the an... Otherwise they're Aryans.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fallen Aryan culture.

Prabhupāda: Bas. They have fallen.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But you are raising them.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- May 14, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: We are putting ourself in this condition of repetition of birth and death. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). Once we take birth, and again we annihilate this body. So Ṛṣabhadeva says, "This ignorance of self-realization must be removed." Therefore He says, ayaṁ dehaḥ: "This body should not be misused like animals," āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna. This is the advice. Ayaṁ dehaḥ nṛloke. He especially mentions, nṛloke: "in the human form of body." The dog, cat, or doglike man, catlike man, they may remain in ignorance. They have no chance. There are uncivilized men. Although they have got two hands, two legs, but because there is no knowledge, they have been described as dvi-pada-paśu. They are animal with two legs. Other animals, they have got four legs, and this rascal has got two legs. That is the difference.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Simply propaganda not to beget children. "Enjoy sex life." What is this horrible civilization?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now it's come in India. This new prime minister, he still says, "Our goal is," I think, "twelve million sterilizations this year," and he's holding Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: A horrible position. People have lost their freedom, their culture, spiritual life. Here so much care is taken for children, and they are so opulent. They are fully opulent and spending money lavishly for the welfare of the child. And they are spending money lavishly in the hotels, in the brothels, in slaughterhouse, the liquor shop, and kill. And this is going on as civilization.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't understand at all how to be happy.

Prabhupāda: Most uncivilized. Most uncivilized. I have described to you, "two-legged animals."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dvi-pāda-paśu.

Prabhupāda: And this cannot allow, discussion.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: It is civilization of two-legged animals. They will say now they are taking pleasure. Is there any guarantee that if one has got two children, the government will take care of everything? Two children or three children or hundred children, the government is not able to guarantee. Why this humbug?

Letter from Yugoslavia--'Books!' -- June 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now we have our centers established.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we can concentrate on...

Prabhupāda: Giving knowledge.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...vigorous preaching.

Prabhupāda: So I am not in favor of sending... They are not receptive at the present time. Here in Europe, although they are Communist, they are now hankering after some knowledge. These rascals are very uncivilized.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Chinese.

Prabhupāda: China, Japan. They are not taken as civilized.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they are not, especially the Chin...

Prabhupāda: Dog-eaters, caṇḍāla. The dog-eaters are the lowest of the mankind. They are dog-eaters. In Europe they do not eat dog. And they're Indo-European stock. These are dog-eaters. They're rejected. We accept them as living entities, but their quality is the lowest. So they are not yet prepared to receive such exalted knowledge. Better let that book be pushed slowly. Let them become fit gradually. Then we'll go. For the time being, they are not fit. They can be expert in... You see in your country, so many Chinese are now... What was their business? There... They went there as craftsmen, as carpenter, as..., not as professor or teacher of philosophy.

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Among animals that evolved on this planet, man is the only animal that has progressed in all his activities. This he achieved through his knowledge in science. While all organisms continue to live even today as their forebears did millions of years ago, man alone has progressed..."

Prabhupāda: No, no. There are uncivilized men. Without any knowledge they can produce children. Do they have any scientific knowledge? How they are producing children? The same man, the same woman, the same child. What is the difference?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "Man alone has progressed from the caveman state to the present spaceman state."

Prabhupāda: Progressing means eating, sleeping, nothing more progress. He eats by killing an animal in the jungle, and you are eating, killing an animal in the organized slaughterhouse. That's all. So what is the difference between you and him? You are committing sinful activities by hammering, the killing, but he does not do so. He's not so sinful.

Room Conversation With Bharadvaja -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Kṣīṇe puṇye punar martya-lokaṁ viśanti, that from higher planets, they fall down with water, and then again, like bubbles, begins from water, life. As the water dries up, then vegetables, and then... Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa... Then moving animals and ants, reptiles. In this way, birds, beast, then four-legged animals, then uncivilized man, then civilized man with Vedic knowledge, then God realization. This is the process.

Bharadvāja: Very wonderful, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We have this evolution in our second exhibit. We want to show that in the beginning the Lord was there, and that by His energy the universe is created and all the different elements are evolved by His glance.

Prabhupāda: Yes, everything is generated from His energy. He is original cause of two energies, material and spiritual. Therefore He is the original cause.

Correspondence

1968 Correspondence

Letter to Janardana -- New York 26 April, 1968:

My Dear Boys and Girls:

Please accept my blessings and my message unto you is that this Krishna Consciousness movement in your country is the greatest boon to you all. Please take full advantage of this movement and be successful within this life. Everyone of us had to pass through many millions of years in the chain of evolutionary process from aquatic to plant life. from plant to reptile life, then to the species of birds, beasts, uncivilized human beings and now this is the golden opportunity with these nice American bodies. You have high intelligence, opulences, birth in the families of the rich nation. Use this opportunity for making life successful and go back to Krishna, back to Home. It is a very scientific movement authorized by the Vedas and accepted by all great acaryas. I think the boy Terry is God-sent. In his past life he must have cultivated this science of Krishna Consciousness and therefore he has automatically been attracted with this movement and who knows if all the boys and girls joining me were not born by the Supreme Will of Krishna just to help me in this great task of distributing Krishna Consciousness in the Western World specifically. I am always at your service and whenever you shall call me I shall come to your place and enjoy your good company. Please try to open a center there as soon as possible. I have instructed Terry about this. Please cooperate with him and chant Hare Krishna and open a center there.

Ever your well-wisher,

1976 Correspondence

Letter to Mr. Dhawan -- Vrindaban 2 April, 1976:

Dear Sir,

I beg to acknowledge receipt of your kind invitation dated Chandigarh, 19-3-76, addressed to my Bombay address. I am very glad to learn that you are endeavouring to understand the prime goal of life, without which the facility of human life becomes futile. I have just come back from Delhi yesterday and I'm preparing for going to Australia by the 10th April, therefore, I am very sorry that I must inform you I will not be able to attend the function, however, I am sending herewith the answers to your questions, as far as I know. As we have received this knowledge from the greatest authority, Krishna, these answers will be acceptable in every sphere of spiritual activity.

First question: What is the true aim of human life?

Answer: The real aim of life is to go back to Home, back to Godhead. We all living entities in different forms of body numbering 8,400,000 forms beginning from the aquatics up to the best advanced form of human life, there is a regular evolution by the laws of nature. The real fact is that we living entities although part and parcel of God, on account of our own disobedience have come down to this material world under different circumstances. We have different types of material dresses to fulfill the tendency for sense gratification, and this by the laws of nature, by association with the 3 modes of material nature. We are transmigrating through different forms of life. So this human form of life is given to us as an opportunity to understand our position because in the human form of life we have more developed consciousness than the lower forms of life like the aquatics, insects, plants, birds, beasts and the civilized and uncivilized human beings. So the point is that a human being must know the aim of life is to go back to Home, back to Godhead.

Letter to Gaura Govinda -- Vrindaban 18 September, 1976:

My Dear Gaura Govinda Maharaja,

Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated September 11, 1976 and have noted the contents with care.

In answer to your question as to why the Indian population is so slack in spiritual life: during the British rule there was a secret policy by the British to cut down the Vedic civilization in India. There was a confidential policy by the British government to kill India's original culture and everything Indian was condemned. From the very beginning they took this position. In our childhood and boyhood we had to read some book by a Mr. Ghose called, "England's Work in India". The purport was that we are uncivilized and the British had come to make us civilized. Later on the policy became successful because in our childhood days any anglicised gentleman was considered to be advanced in civilization.

In Calcutta the Chowringhee quarters were known as the English quarters and the neighborhood places were maintained very nicely. The Indian quarters were known as native quarters therefore even in our own city there was such a division as English quarters and native quarters. Anyway this policy became successful when our leaders took them as fact. Mahatma Gandhi wanted to refute this white prestigious position but he also failed because he did not understand spiritual culture or God consciousness. During the Moslem time, although sometimes fanatically, there were some cases of breaking the temple, but there was no such policy to kill the Indian culture. On account of this during the Moslem period even during the time of Aurangazeb there were Indian Princes and political leaders like Sivaji and Jaya Singh.

So it is a long process how Indians, especially educated Indians, have become victimized by the slowly deteriorating position of Indian culture, but there is no use tracing out the history but generally we have lost our own culture and our leaders are not very serious to revive our own culture to the point. But still the mass of people, not being very much advanced in education, stick to the Indian culture. For example, lakhs of people still visit Jagannatha Puri during the Rathayatra Festival, lakhs still visit the Kumbha mela, and lakhs still visit the holy places of India, but there is no encouragement by the leaders. It is only a continuation of the original culture.

So there is no hopelessness; if we revive Krishna consciousness in a systematic way, within a very short time we can revive our original Indian culture on the basis of the teachings of Lord Krishna and the Bhagavad-gita. So we have to work very hard for this purpose and if you follow the path of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, it will be very easily done.

Arrange for printing the books. We shall supply paper that we have now got from the government. But without the paper you can take estimates from the printers to find the cheapest. I hope this meets you in good health.

Your ever well-wisher,

A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

Page Title:Uncivilized (Conv. and Letters)
Compiler:Labangalatika, Marc
Created:21 of Aug, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=65, Let=3
No. of Quotes:68