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Ultimately (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Manyamāna, manyamāna. He is thinking he is very intelligent.

Acyutānanda: While he was saying that, I was thinking, "I hope I never have him for a judge."

Prabhupāda: You'll find everywhere such.

Acyutānanda: Ultimately he was saying, "It is not Kṛṣṇa or this. It is some 'something.' That is the reality."

Keśavalāl Trivedi: He was thinking that he was bringing about some synthesization.

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Keśavalāl Trivedi: And that he was bringing...

Prabhupāda: (break) ...with this land also? No. (break) ...this building?

Mahāmṣa: I think it is a school, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) He does not know. He does not say that "certainly school." "It may be."

Harikeśa: Well, if I'm convinced it's a school, it's a school. I mean, the only thing that really matters is my perception of that thing.

Prabhupāda: You learn from him that it is school. Before that, you did not know. Therefore you have to learn. That experience is valuable, when you learn it.

Harikeśa: Yes, but the only thing that makes it a school...

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Then you don't accept Bhagavad-gītā.

Acyutānanda: There cannot be anything in between.

Prabhupāda: Then you don't accept Bhagavad-gītā.

Acyutānanda: We also accept. During avatāra these things may go on, but actually...

Yaśodānandana: Ultimately everything will become one. The jīvātmā will become one with the Paramātmā. The Advaitavādī...

Prabhupāda: It is already one. That is Viśiṣṭādvaitavāda.

Acyutānanda: Yes, but it appears differently.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Acyutānanda: But actually there is no difference.

Prabhupāda: No.

Acyutānanda: So we are one with God.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Acyutānanda: So we are one.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why Gaṇeśa temple?

Mahāṁsa: Gaṇeśa and other deities also.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We know the people in charge of it. We went there for a program.

Prabhupāda: That means all these foolish ideas.

Mahāṁsa: Actually, Prabhupāda, it is only for.... They say it will ultimately be for the Hindu community there, for performing their marriages...

Prabhupāda: So who, Hindu, will go?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, I have been to this Gaṇeśa temple. We went there for a program once. It's such a small piece of land in Queens. No one's going to go there. When we were there...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's in Queens?

Harikeśa: (laughs) In Flushing.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: ...we distributed about twenty of your big books in half an hour there.

Prabhupāda: In New York?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In that Gaṇeśa temple. I've gone there with Yadubara and Viśākhā once.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They already built it?

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is country—"We are American. They are forcing us to become a Hindu." This is between country. You have to tackle with intelligence.

Mahāṁsa: It's become a world issue.

Acyutānanda: In most books about Hinduism they describe that Hinduism is a cult where they worship many gods and ultimately God is formless.

Prabhupāda: No.

Acyutānanda: So we are against that. Then we are not Hindus even philosophically according to that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are against all so-called cheating religion. The Hinduism is also a cheating religion. We are preaching Bhāgavata, and Bhāgavata beginning that "We have kicked out all cheating religion." What is cheating religion? That one has to understand. And Bhāgavata says, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇitam: (SB 6.3.19) "Religion means the order given by God." If you do not know who is God, "imperson," then where is your religion? We have to tackle things.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They will consult all the standard dictionaries about Kṛṣṇa's definition and all the...

Prabhupāda: Dictionary is not the standard. The standard is the book itself. That is our preaching. You may bring some dictionary made by some fools. No. We have to take reference. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is.

Acyutānanda: Well, even Jesus Christ just said, "I am for all," but there is Christianity.

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: You were with him. You do not know? "The transcendental meditation—you will get this, you will get that." He is advertising in that...

Hari-śauri: All material opulence.

Harikeśa: Ultimately you will become God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the attempt.

Hari-śauri: And in the meantime, you can enjoy material world.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: They never said anything more than you'll just get good sex life and good health.

Prabhupāda: That is.... Becoming God means the same, money and sex. That's all.

Harikeśa: Wouldn't it be handy, though, to be able to fly around without having to use airplanes?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Harikeśa: I mean, if you had some mystic opulence like being able to fly.

Prabhupāda: Yes, the yogis can do that.

Harikeśa: Wouldn't that be handy? Couldn't a devotee utilize that?

Morning Walk -- February 18, 1976, Mayapura:

Acyutānanda: Yes. They also do that. They try and... Mainly they try and reconvert the Christians. They get some results. And they pander to the tribal castes so that they don't convert to Christianity. The Mohammedans and Christians have refused to use birth control, so they think that their population will soon outnumber the Hindus. So they are afraid that the Mohammedan and Christian block will sway elections in the future. (break)

Jayapatākā: Brahmacārīs don't like to take the instructions from the elder devotees, and then they want to take sannyāsa, so they think they can be independent and give orders themself and not listen.

Prabhupāda: Therefore not to be given all of a sudden. (break)...to become sevaka. Everyone wants to become sevya.

Hṛdayānanda: Served.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And, ultimately, God. Se pasha pasha pasha bo... (?) When everything failure, then to become God.

Jayapatākā: That's why Lord Caitanya said that "I am not a sannyāsī or a..."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa...

Yaśodānandana: Nāhaṁ vipro na ca nara-patir nāpi vaiśyo...

Prabhupāda: Bhṛtyasya-bhṛtya, servant of the servant (CC Madhya 13.80). Everyone, if he wants to become a master, that is materialism. (end)

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes, so Kṛṣṇa says that.

Gurukṛpā: But Kṛṣṇa says, "You cannot do this. You cannot do that." Therefore it is conditional.

Prabhupāda: Then there is no surrender.

Acyutānanda :"Ultimately I know that Kṛṣṇa takes away everything."

Prabhupāda: Then there is no surrender. You do not surrender.

Acyutānanda: "But I know that Kṛṣṇa takes away everything from His devotees ultimately, so I don't want to surrender."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is good for.... That is good for you. Just like the physician says that "You surrender. You don't eat these things. I'll cure you." Will you accept this?

Yaśodānandana: "Well, when Kṛṣṇa will give me His mercy, then I'll surrender."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Yaśodānandana: "When Kṛṣṇa will give the mercy, when He wills it, I'll surrender."

Prabhupāda: He is already giving you, because without Kṛṣṇa's mercy you cannot live for a second.

Gurukṛpā: "So similarly, when He desires I serve Him, I will serve Him. But now He is not desiring."

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa's dictation.

Revatīnandana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And you cannot bind Kṛṣṇa to dictate in a similar way. If He likes, He can ask a sinful man, "Do this." If He doesn't like, He may not act. That is Kṛṣṇa.

Revatīnandana: So ultimately it is simply by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Revatīnandana: ...that he comes back to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So it is Kṛṣṇa's business where to show mercy, where not to show. You cannot oblige Him that "You show mercy everywhere." No. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-maya-samāvṛtaḥ (BG 7.25). Kṛṣṇa.... You cannot oblige Kṛṣṇa, "You do this." That is not Kṛṣṇa. That is not Kṛṣṇa. If one is obliged to act to your dictation, then he is not Kṛṣṇa. Therefore whatever Kṛṣṇa likes, He'll do. You cannot oblige Him that "You have to do it." No. That is karma-mimāṁsa, that "If good work gives good result, so why should we care for Kṛṣṇa? We shall do the good work." That is.... Ordinary people, they think like that. Karma-mimāṁsa. "If I do good work, Kṛṣṇa will be obliged to give me good effect. Why shall I care for Kṛṣṇa?" That is karma-mimāṁsa. "Work is final. Do good work, that's all." They say like that. But we say, even if you do good work, if Kṛṣṇa does not want it, then it will not produce good result. That is Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1976, Mayapura:

Siddha-svarūpa: The Chinese are very afraid of the Russians, and they are afraid of the Russians in India. They are afraid of Russian-style communism in India, and Russians having bases.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Siddha-svarūpa: A way of preaching is that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and Vedic communism is the only thing in India that would ultimately defeat the Russian-style communism. Then they would very much appreciate it. If they saw that India would go communist, then they'd rather have it Vedic communist than Russian communist. Their theory is that everybody must go communist for people to be, feel satisfied. (break)

Madhudviṣa: That's their feeling.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: A lot of people come every day.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (Bengali) (break) ...be print in a booklet, that will help us.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Immediately.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I have all the reviews with me.

Prabhupāda: Ha. So immediately...

Rādhāvallabha: You want the BBT to print, Śrīla Prabhupāda, or Gopāla Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, no, what is the purity?

Madhudviṣa: Well, the pure Communist philosophy.

Prabhupāda: What is that pure Communist philosophy? State. We state, "This is our philosophy." What is the Marx philosophy?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Ultimately, they say there should be no leader. Everything will work automatically.

Prabhupāda: But you have leader, rascal. Why do you say no leader? Immediately take shoes and beat with them.

Mahendra: They say that in the future there will be no leaders.

Prabhupāda: Again beat threes, thrice. But we are not so fool that we are going to believe in your future postdated check. We are not so fool. Present right check.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We don't accept blindly.

Prabhupāda: Immediately payable. Then we accept.

Madhudviṣa: They will accept that there has to be a leader...

Prabhupāda: Yes, they must have. They must have.

Madhudviṣa: But the leader should not be a person which is held in esteem for his personality but simply a person who is guiding the system.

Morning Walk -- March 22, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is simple. "You rascal, you give up whatever you have learned, you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Don't say "rascal," but indirectly (laughter), that "Whatever you have learned, it is all nonsense." Sakalam eva vihāya dūrāt, "You give up everything, kicked out, and simply become adherent to Caitanya." This is our preaching. And what Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128), that's all. Because ultimately He is Kṛṣṇa.

Pañcadraviḍa: Can you repeat why you said you have been successful where others have not?

Prabhupāda: Because I stick to Kṛṣṇa's word. I, therefore, present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. We do not make any amendment nor accept any amendment. And, therefore, we decry everything—Gandhi, Dr. Radhakrishnan, Aurobindo, this, that—all rascals. Because they tried to amend it. That is admitted by the science professor. They have all tried to make it modernized, but I have not done. Here is the spiritual master in the disciplic succession, so we remain indebted to him to understand the original traditional knowledge.

Devotee: Also that professor from Mexico City, he appreciated.

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Hm? What?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It seems that people have great difficulty discriminating today between good and bad.

Prabhupāda: So what is your answer?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You've answered very nicely that whatever the authority says is good is good, and whatever the supreme authority says is bad is bad. Independently of what our own way of thinking is, we have to ultimately answer to the supreme authority. Even that lady, she gave the example that in society certain things are good, but they've bent the law, that things which were once bad, they are now accepted as good. So you explained that whatever the authority says is good is good. So the only difference I can see is that the goodness and the badness that Kṛṣṇa has defined are eternal.

Prabhupāda: Bad is this material world, and good is spiritual world. In the material world the discrimination of good and bad is mental concoction.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Mano-dharma.

Prabhupāda: Dvaite bhadrābhadra sakalī samāna.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So pious activity is that activity which brings us to the spiritual world, and impious activity, activity which roots us here? Or are even the pious activities of the material world considered bad?

Prabhupāda: Pious activities or impious activities in this material world, they are the same.

Meeting with Bankers -- April 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian (1): Now Mahārājajī has told you the story about the Kuvera of the old days. I will tell you the story of the Kuveras of the today. That is us. In fact, it was in a paper. There was a cartoon. A bank manager, means today's Kuvera, was sitting in an office, and he received a call, such and such big Dalmiya or Birla, "We want two lakhs of rupees just now." He said, "Yes, come along. Here is our Swamiji. He'll pay you two lakhs." Then there was another call. There was some industrialist or a small-scale industrialist man. He said, "I want to start an industry. Could I get a lakh of rupees as a loan from you?" He said, "Yes, yes. Please do come along and we'll make some arrangements." Then he also. And ultimately the third picture in the cartoon, that the manager—that is today's Kuvera—he goes out of the bank. He is standing on the gate, and he says to that caukidāra, (Hindi punchline-laughter). It is today's Kuvera is not in any position to give anything. He also wants your blessings, you see, in fact.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Indian (1): So if about the bankers, if you permit me, I'll give you another interesting story. There was a man who was very ill in America and he had a heart trouble. In fact he had no heart, I would say. So, you know, they can replace the hearts nowadays. He went to a hospital, and the doctor offered him two or three hearts, "Which one would you like? One is of the general, the other is of a big businessman, and the third is of a banker. What would you like?" So he thought, "Let me have the heart of a..."

Prabhupāda: Banker.

Indian (1): "...banker." (laughter) So the doctor said, "Why do you want to have the heart of a banker?" He thought, "Because I'm sure it has never been used." (laughter)

Prabhupāda: I'll recite another very nice story...(break)

Meeting with Bankers -- April 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Indian (1): Now Mahārājajī has told you the story about the Kuvera of the old days. I will tell you the story of the Kuveras of the today. That is us. In fact, it was in a paper. There was a cartoon. A bank manager, means today's Kuvera, was sitting in an office, and he received a call, such and such big Dalmiya or Birla, "We want two lakhs of rupees just now." He said, "Yes, come along. Here is our Swamiji. He'll pay you two lakhs." Then there was another call. There was some industrialist or a small-scale industrialist man. He said, "I want to start an industry. Could I get a lakh of rupees as a loan from you?" He said, "Yes, yes. Please do come along and we'll make some arrangements." Then he also. And ultimately the third picture in the cartoon, that the manager—that is today's Kuvera—he goes out of the bank. He is standing on the gate, and he says to that caukidāra, (Hindi punchline-laughter). It is today's Kuvera is not in any position to give anything. He also wants your blessings, you see, in fact.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Indian (1): So if about the bankers, if you permit me, I'll give you another interesting story. There was a man who was very ill in America and he had a heart trouble. In fact he had no heart, I would say. So, you know, they can replace the hearts nowadays. He went to a hospital, and the doctor offered him two or three hearts, "Which one would you like? One is of the general, the other is of a big businessman, and the third is of a banker. What would you like?" So he thought, "Let me have the heart of a..."

Prabhupāda: Banker.

Indian (1): "...banker." (laughter) So the doctor said, "Why do you want to have the heart of a banker?" He thought, "Because I'm sure it has never been used." (laughter)

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Fallible soldier? Yes.

Akṣayānanda: Sometimes I say to young boys, "You are seeking protection from your parents in your childhood, and then, when you grow old or when you grow older, they will want protection from you, because they will become old and feeble. So where is the protection? There is actually no protection." And everyone can easily understand that.

Prabhupāda: Protection is ultimately Kṛṣṇa.

Akṣayānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: It is all false thought that "He is giving me protection. He is giving me..."

Akṣayānanda: Yes. And the same person who is giving me protection, later he will ask me for protection, and then I will ask somebody else...

Prabhupāda: No, no, even when the father-mother is supposed to give protection, that is also not right conclusion. Otherwise there are so many fathers and mothers who is giving protection to his children. The father-mother, when the child is sick, the father-mother gives all—one who has got means—best medicine, best medical treatment, but the child dies. Where is the protection?

Akṣayānanda: Yes. Even that is...

Prabhupāda: It is not possible.

Akṣayānanda: So there's actually no protection in any case.

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Are the Vaiṣṇavas in general lamenting for the physical upkeep of Vṛndāvana, or are they indifferent?

Prabhupāda: No, it is the business of the government. Vaiṣṇava can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra anywhere. He doesn't require any nice park. Ahaituky apratihatā. For becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, for a serious person, there is no obstacle. Any condition he can do it. (break) ...why there is sannyāsī? In the Vedic civilization, ultimately sannyāsa. Why? That one must give up the intimate relationship with wife. This is the ultimate position. Brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgī-saṅgam.

Prabhupāda: That is recommended everywhere. Illicit or legal.... Mahāprabhu has said, asat eka strī-saṅgī: "Anyone who is attached to woman, he is asat." Bas. This is the whole process, how to become detached from the attraction of woman, dhīra. (break) Give up the connection with woman is recommended. So in our society it will be a good test. We are mixed up with men and women. If you in spite of this allurement, if you do not become attracted by woman, then you should know you are paramahaṁsa. Yes. You are worshipable. And this Bhāgavata-dharma is meant for the paramahaṁsas. Paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2). It is especially. Dharmaḥ projjhita. The other different types of regulated system, to become very religious man or to become very expert money-hunter or accumulation of money, dharma, artha, and enjoying sense enjoyment—the whole world is appreciating these men, who is a religious man, who is very much able to satisfy his senses, dozens of cars and three dozen women, naked dance. They are taking this. Dharma artha kāma. And somebody is trying mokṣa, being baffled or dissatisfied: "These things will not.... I shall become one with." So dharma artha kāma mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90). So Bhāgavata says, "These are all kicked out." Paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2). For the paramahaṁsas. So anyone who is freed from all these allurement, he is paramahaṁsa. And this paramahaṁsa-saṁhitā, it is called, Bhāgavata.... Paramahaṁsa-saṁhitā. Bhāṣyaṁ brahma-sūtrāṇām **.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Nothing. Artificial blood.... Superficially it is red water. So if red water is the life, then why you are spoiling so much blood? Keep it scientifically and push it into the dead body. I say it is, that way, it is the red water, nothing but red water. Urine is white water. I am coming to the five elements, air, water.... Then what is this bone? Earth. You can manufacture bone, hard bone, with earth or wood or something plastic. So we are analyzing the combination of the body, so everything you can manufacture. But where is the life you can manufacture? Why do you say? That is our challenge. All the ingredients of the body you can manufacture exactly like that. Ultimately you can give the beauty also of the woman or the man. But where is life? Bring life by all these things. Then I will say that you are scientist. Otherwise cheater, simply bluffing people. This thing should be stopped. Where you get the information that this, from matter life is possible. "In future." But in future.... In inceptive condition you show something. Just like formerly they were flying balloons. So because they were flying, they could say that "Future we shall fly a big city." And in the history we can see that that is not impossible, because in the inceptive condition or initiative condition we see that big things can be flown. But here you cannot even prepare an ant. You have not been able to prepare even a small ant, germ. Show me. So why do you say, "In future I shall do it"?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Some of these creature don't even have hearts.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Some of the insects don't even have hearts.

Prabhupāda: And how do you say? They have everything. You have no intelligence to understand. Everything, all anatomic physiology is there, even the small full stop. You cannot see even, microbe. That is God's creation.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You mean to say...

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: No, they'll be.... Nature's law is so strong that they are also trying to knock their head in the wall. They will themselves break their head. The laws of nature is the same. If you try to break the walls from this side and if they try to break the walls from that side, both of them will lose their head. So if they are so foolish.... They are foolish. Everywhere such foolish men are there. They are trying to overcome the laws of nature. That is the greatest foolishness. That is the greatest foolishness. Just like government has got police force, military force, and if somebody tries to become, violate the laws of government by defying police force and military force—that is futile. Is it possible, that "I shall defy the government laws"? No, there is police force. There is military. "I don't care for that." It is foolishness. It is simply foolishness. Similarly, these laws of nature means the force of the Supreme. So if you want to defy, you may waste your time. It is not possible. And practically, Kṛṣṇa says, "Here I have enforced this miserable condition of material life." Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānu (BG 13.9). First of all surpass this, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. Then talk of surpassing the laws of nature. Can the Communists overcome, stopping old age? No Communist will be old man? Then what way you have surpassed the laws of nature? No Communist will die? Then where is your surpassing laws of nature? Ultimately you are under the grip of laws of nature. So what is the meaning of this foolish talking, that "I am going to surpass the laws of nature"? Show us first of all.

Morning Walk -- May 31, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Zoology?

Devotee (2): Ecology. They say that man is part of the universe, and that we should take care of the environment because ultimately man will kill himself if he doesn't care for the environment properly.

Prabhupāda: What is the meaning?

Devotee (2): The meaning is that people have exploited the atmosphere and the earth so badly in the last two hundred years especially, that, practically speaking, man is on the verge of self-destruction.

Hari-śauri: They're getting scared because they put so much pollution in the atmosphere, into the water, into the earth, that now they're.... Everything's.... It's reacting against them now.

Devotee (2): In other words, they're seeing that they've become a problem.

Hari-śauri: I was telling you about that blob of garbage that was left out in the..., headed towards the harbor in New York. For the last fifty years they've dumped all the garbage in the sea, and now it's collected together, and it's coming back into the shore. They think that in about fifteen years time, if it travels at its present rate, it will be blocking the entire New York Harbor. So ecology means they have to try to find out ways and means of avoiding things like that.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be.

Rāmeśvara: But they do not give one person the credit.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Just like this manufacturer of this car, he's not handling this creation by his own hand. He has got money, energy. He pays the mechanical person to create, but ultimately it is Ford. Ford is not creating everything. Ford's money, Ford's employees, workers, they are creating, but the name is Ford. Similarly, everything is being created by God. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). And He has got so many working hands. That is also.... Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). Multi-energies, they are doing like that.... But He is supervising, "Have you done this?" "Yes." "That's all. Go on." So how can you go beyond your experience? Everything is created. A child may think, "How this car is created?" But it is, factually it is created. He cannot imagine how this nice car is created. Why child? Even elderly persons in a nondeveloped country, they'll be surprised how this car is created. They cannot do it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. That means they're ignorant.

Prabhupāda: That's all. So you cannot imagine that the sky is created, this water is created, that is beyond your experience.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because you cannot do it, you think no one can do it.

Prabhupāda: You cannot do it. But why another cannot do it? As I see, I cannot manufacture the car, but somebody else can do it. Similarly, the whole big thing, cosmic manifestation, I cannot do it, but somebody may do it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are small-minded.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So, when you are free from sinful life and the reaction of sinful life, then you are immediately on the spiritual platform. So here Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He assures that "You simply surrender unto Me, and I immediately excuse you for all your sinful life." So it can be done in one second. It doesn't take much time. One second. He says "immediately." But we don't want that, that is the difficulty. Read the purport.

Hṛdayānanda: "The Lord has described various kinds of knowledge, processes of religion, knowledge of the Supreme Brahman, knowledge of the Supersoul, knowledge of the different types of orders and statuses of social life, knowledge of the renounced order of life, knowledge of nonattachment, sense and mind control, meditation, etc. He has described in so many ways different types of religion. Now in summarizing Bhagavad-gītā, the Lord says that Arjuna should give up all the processes that have been explained to him; he should simply surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That surrender will save him from all kinds of sinful reactions, for the Lord personally promises to protect him. In the Eighth Chapter it was said that only one who has become free from all sinful reactions can take to the worship of Lord Kṛṣṇa. Thus one may think that unless he is free from all sinful reactions he cannot take to the surrendering process. To such doubts it is here said that even if one is not free from all sinful reactions, simply by the process of surrendering to Śrī Kṛṣṇa he is automatically freed. There is no need of strenuous effort to free oneself from sinful reactions. One should unhesitatingly accept Kṛṣṇa as the supreme savior of all living entities. With faith and love, one should surrender unto Him. According to the devotional process, one should simply accept such religious principles that will lead ultimately to the devotional service of the Lord. One may perform a particular occupational duty according to his position in the social order, but if by executing his duty one does not come to the point of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all his activities are in vain.

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Now, if He is ordering to become His devotee, how can I try to become another God, competitor? This is the folly, and for this we are suffering. He asked him, "You become My devotee." And I want to become another God, competitor. And therefore we are suffering. We cannot become another God. That is not possible. But artificially you are trying. Therefore you are suffering. Anything you try artificially, you'll suffer. If you try for a thing artificially, then what is the result? Result will be suffering and disappointment. Therefore śāstra says, tasyaiva hetoḥ prayeteta kovidaḥ. Don't try for such things... You have tried all through in different forms of life. You have failed. So don't try for that. But try to become servant of God. Then your life will be successful. Because in the material world the endeavor is how to become God in different varieties: how to become president, how to become minister, how to become master, how to become very strong man, very wealthy man, very beautiful man, so on, so on, so on, up to—when everything fails—then how to become God. When everything fails, then, ultimately, "Now I shall become God." The same disease is there, how to become big, now the biggest. And that is the same disease in a different form. Therefore, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, it is said, kṛṣṇa-bhakta-niṣkāma, ataeva śānta, bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī-'aśānta' (CC Madhya 19.149). Bhukti means material enjoyment. Karmīs... Just like ordinary men, they are working so hard day and night. This airplane is running here and there, (loud airplane passing over) day and night, carrying karmīs. So this is bhukti. How to enjoy this material world fully, this is called bhukti. So because they are after bhukti, how there can be peace? He has to work very hard. And mukti, those who are jñānīs, they are trying to become one with God. So that is also very difficult. But still, there are so many sādhanas. That is also... But the desire is there. The karmīs are desiring to enjoy material world, and the jñānīs are desiring to become the supreme. That is also another desire. So bhukti mukti siddhi. Yogis, they are trying to achieve some mystic power. And if you attain some mystic power, without airplane if you can fly... The yogis can do that.

Interview with Jackie Vaughn (Black Congressman) -- July 12, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Hari-śauri: "The Supreme Personality of Godhead has innumerable energies, and all of these energies are divine. Although the living entities are part of His energies, and are therefore divine, due to contact with material energy their original superior power is covered. Being thus covered by material energy, one cannot possibly overcome its influence. As previously stated, both the material and spiritual natures, being emanations from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, are eternal. The living entities belong to the eternal superior nature of the Lord, but due to contamination by the inferior nature, matter, their illusion is also eternal. The conditioned soul is therefore called nitya-baddha, or eternally conditioned. No one can trace out the history of his becoming conditioned at a certain date in material history. Consequently, his release from the clutches of material nature is very difficult, even though that material nature is an inferior energy, because material energy is ultimately conducted by the Supreme Will, which the living entity cannot overcome. Inferior material nature is defined herein as divine nature due to its divine connection and movement by the divine will. Being conducted by the divine will, material nature, although inferior, acts so wonderfully in the construction and destruction of the cosmic manifestation that the Vedas confirm this as follows: māyāṁ tu prakṛtiṁ vidyān māyinaṁ tu maheśvaram. Although māyā is false and temporary, the background of māyā is the supreme magician, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is Maheśvara, the supreme controller. Another meaning of guṇa is rope. It is to be understood that the conditioned soul is tightly bound by the ropes of illusion. A man bound by the hands and feet cannot free himself. He must be helped by a person who is unbound, because the bound cannot help the bound. The rescuer must be liberated. Therefore only Lord Kṛṣṇa or His bone fide representative the spiritual master can release the conditioned soul.

Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: To understand God, a simple method. Simple method to.... Just like the earth is there, everybody knows. And from the earth different varieties of living entities are coming. The grass is coming, the plant is coming, then insects are coming, flies are coming, then by eating the grass or flies, the bigger animals are coming or they're existing. Take for four-legged animals, they are eating the grass, the plants. So they are living, their generation is going on. Then the human being is coming by evolution. So anyway, ultimately, they are coming from the earth. Is it not? Is there any difficulty? So we are coming from the earth or water or air, fire, there are five elements. Therefore on the total material elements is our mother. The mother means wherefrom one comes. He's your child because his body has come from your body. Everyone knows it. So every living being is coming out of this earth in different forms. Now if it is established, the mother is the earth and everything that is coming out of mother, they are children, then where is father? Is it not the next inquiry?

Mādhavānanda: Is that not the next inquiry?

Prabhupāda: The mother is there, the children are there. The next inquiry is..., suppose unknown man comes to him, "Where is your father?" So who is the father? And father says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: (BG 14.4) "I am father." Finished. Father is God. God has created this earth. He has impregnated the earth with the living entities, and they are coming out. Where is the difficulty? But because they are in ignorance, rascals, it takes long, long time to understand this simple truth. So dull-headed. The children are there and mother is there, and why father, there should be no father? What is the answer?

Satsvarūpa: That the mother is just some symbolic idea, there is no...

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, mother it is. Mother means who begets, who gives birth. You practically see, grass to the highest form of life, they are coming from earth, living at the cost of the earth. The earth is supplying food, food grains, vegetables. So mother..., as child is growing by sucking the mother's breast, so we are living at the cost of mother. She is giving us milk, she is giving us everything. That is mother. And śāstra, the earth is considered mother. Ātma-mātā guroḥ patnī brāhmaṇī... but they have no knowledge. Mother means who creates my body, who gives me feeding in the beginning, gives me strength. That is mother. How you can understand mother otherwise? So mother is there, earth. Dhenur dhātrī tathā pṛthvī. Pṛthvī is mother. And practically we see.

Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: ...production of is external. Bahir-aṅga-śakti. But the śakti, the energy, is coming from the Supreme. Just like here we find this place is shadow and that place is sunshine. Both these places are due to the sun. When there is no sun there is no such distinction that "This is shining, sunny, and this is shadow." So this distinction is there so long we do not know the real source. But if we know the real source, we can understand that this distinction is temporary. Actually the energy is coming from the Supreme. So shadow has come from Supreme, and light has also come from the Supreme. So there is no distinction, ultimately. Just like earring, golden, manufactured from gold, and gold which is not manufactured. So this distinction-manufactured or not manufactured, secondary. But really the earring is also gold, and the lump of gold is also gold. So why should we say that earring is false? It is also gold. In relationship with the supreme source, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), there is no such distinction. In another place, while Vyāsadeva was instructed by Nārada, he said, idaṁ hi viśvaṁ bhagavān ivetaro. This viśva, the virāṭ-rūpa, is also Bhagavān, but it appears different from Him. Just like the shadow appears different from the sunshine, but actually, taking the central point of emanation, it is different manifestation. That's all. Tree—there are so many varieties. One is trunk, one is branch, one is twig, one is leaf, one is.... So the varieties are there, but the tree is one, the root. So ultimately there is no variety, only one. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. The difference is the Māyāvādīs, they abruptly say everything is one. Not everything is one. The trunk is not one with the leaf, but ultimately because the root is the cause, so there is no difference between the trunk and the leaf. This is acintya-bhedābheda philosophy, simultaneously one and different. On the whole, everything is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Lāvaṇyam, now you know very well in the Western country. Beauty increases by having long hair. (laughter) I was just trying to recite this verse only, and now see how it is current. Who expected that this foretelling is there in the Bhāgavatam? To increase beauty, have long hair. Is it not? Now just see. How five thousand years this thing was foretold? That is the proof. There was no hippie movement then. (laughs) But Vyāsadeva foretold that in the Kali-yuga if one keeps long hair he will think himself as very beautiful. There are so many things. Ultimately, with the advancement of Kali-yuga you'll have no food. Food means there will be no food grains, there will be no milk, there will be no sugar, like that. No fruits. If you get fruits, there will be no pulp, it is simply seeds. These things are there. You get a mango, but a mango means simply the big seed, that's all. So how can you check it? If nature's way, things are going to happen like that, what the scientists will do? If there is no rice, no wheat, will the scientists...? They can say replace with a pill, but they cannot produce wheat or rice or dahl or milk, sugar. That is not possible.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Śrīla Prabhupāda? They have fashioned a way for the spacemen that they can drink their own urine and eat their own stool.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the most scientific improvement. (laughter) Yes. That they can do. (laughter) By scientific improvement, they can drink their own urine, very tasty. That is possible.

Devotee (1): With all these disqualifications, how can the general mass of people take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the only remedy. That is stated here.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Following such conclusions, the demoniac, who are lost to themselves and who have no intelligence, engage in unbeneficial, horrible works meant to destroy the world." (purport) "The demoniac are engaged in activities that will lead the world to destruction. The Lord states here that they are less intelligent. The materialists, who have no concept of God, think that they are advancing. But, according to Bhagavad-gītā, they are unintelligent and devoid of all sense. They try to enjoy this material world to the utmost limit and therefore always engage in inventing something for sense gratification. Such materialistic inventions are considered to be the advancement of human civilization, but the result is that people grow more and more violent and more and more cruel-cruel to animals and cruel to other human beings. They have no idea how to behave toward one another. Animal killing is very prominent amongst demoniac people. Such people are considered the enemies of the world because ultimately they will invent or create something which will bring destruction to all. Indirectly, this verse anticipates the invention of nuclear weapons, of which the whole world is today very proud. At any moment war may take place, and these atomic weapons may create havoc. Such things are created solely for the destruction of the world, and this is indicated here. Due to godlessness, such weapons are invented in human society; they are not meant for the peace and prosperity of the world."

Prabhupāda: Now, discuss.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Actually, in this century there has not been ten years of peace. Always there is some war been going on, and now...

Prabhupāda: Cold war and hot war, they say. When there is fire that is hot war, and there is diplomacy and politics, that is cold war. So war is going on. Sometimes it is hot, sometimes it is cold. There is no peace.

Morning Walk -- July 4, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: But you did not talk with him and argue?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I argued.

Prabhupāda: What is life.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Well, ultimately he has to accept that, our philosophy.

Prabhupāda: They have become less intelligent on account of their bad habits.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This man, there's a Professor Mitra, he's in Emory University in Department of Sociology. They claim he's a Vedantist, and they have a group. And this Das, actually his name was Das, he told me that he has Śrīla Prabhupāda's Bhagavad-gītā As It Is and worships it, he recites every day. And he told me that he praises very much, that it's the best Gītā he has seen. So although he's involved in something else, but still he's taking Śrīla Prabhupāda's.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Any man who is reasonable, he'll come. If he's animal, he cannot come. That is the difference. The first charge is that anyone who is in bodily concept of life, he's animal. First of all, refute. If you are thinking that "I am this body," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am American," "I am this," "I am that," then you are animal. This is our first charge. What they will answer? What is the difference? If a dog is thinking "I am dog," and I am thinking "I am Indian" or "American," what is the difference? What is the difference between the dog and the man? That first charge should be answered. Then further questions can be...

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: There is some meaning. That's all right. But where is your independence? You are fully under the control of the laws of nature. So where is your independence?

Yadubara: There is none.

Prabhupāda: Simply dog dancing is independence?

Vṛṣākapi: Ultimately, they are declaring their independence of God, Kṛṣṇa. They can do as they like.

Prabhupāda: Then where is that independence? You can declare anything. A crazy man can say anything, but where is your independence?

Rūpānuga: In fact, they are bound up.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Where is the question of independence? Whatever you do not want, it is being forced upon you. So where is your independence? Nobody wants any miseries. So everyone is miserable condition. Struggle for existence means to get out of miserable condition. So where is the independence? Now there is mist. How you can say you are independent? You cannot drive this mist, this fog. Unless sun rises, it cannot be cleared. So where is your independence? There may be so many accidents. Actually, it so happens. But you do not want. But here is an unfortunate. So where is your independence? It is not under your control. If the sun rises, then it can be dissipated. Otherwise, there is no question. Poor thoughts. What is here, this park?

Vṛṣākapi: That's a private community.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Perhaps everyone is hopeful that the sun will rise for them.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No, the rascal means when they say there is no God. Then they are rascals. Here is a scientist—he does not say that there is no God. Anyone who says there is no God, he's a rascal. He may be scientist, philosopher, or anyone. (break—back in car)

Hari-śauri: I'm a bit puzzled about this, these entities that are born from perspiration, like that. It seems that there's no father and mother, yet like we were just using the argument that there must be a father and mother.

Prabhupāda: No, there is father and mother. The supreme father is Kṛṣṇa, and mother is nature, ultimately. So perspiration is also another form of nature. Yes. There's always father and mother.

Yadubara: There's no material father, though? In that case?

Prabhupāda: Material father is not material. Real father is Kṛṣṇa. He may come in so many ways.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The thing is that the scientists may isolate some cockroaches in a box, and they will watch the cockroaches secrete eggs and this or that or whatever—I don't know exactly how the cockroaches...

Prabhupāda: Not, give up cockroach. There are many other living entities, they come from perspiration. Take for..., bugs. Bugs, they come from perspiration. Many, many come by fermentation.

Hari-śauri: Yes, but it seems that form of the bug must come from the form of another bug.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: So it's very difficult to understand how it comes from perspiration.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No, no, impersonal there is. Impersonal means negation of this material thing. Neti neti, "Not this." Impersonal means not this material person. That is impersonal. Kṛṣṇa is person, but in order to convince people that He's person but not a material person, the material things have to be negated. That is Upaniṣad. Just to evade the material conception of the Absolute. But ultimately He's person. Brahmaṇo 'ham pratiṣṭhā. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣu (Bs. 5.40). These things are there. So in order to substantiate the Supreme Person as completely spiritual, the material conception of personality is rejected. That is impersonal. Nirguṇa means He has no material qualities. Bhakta-vatsala, Kṛṣṇa is bhakta-vatsala. That is not material quality, that is spiritual quality. So negation of material understanding is impersonal. But when one is fully in awareness of Kṛṣṇa, His spiritual identity, then again He's person.

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda gave the example this morning that something which is personal can speak, like Kṛṣṇa spoke Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa's described in Bhagavad-gītā as the Supreme. But we don't have any experience of something impersonal like the sky speaking to us. So if the Supreme is impersonal, how is it that Bhagavad-gītā is spoken by Him?

Dr. Sukla: Māyāvādīs like Swami Vivekananda, he questions "Who was Lord Kṛṣṇa?" Was Kṛṣṇa King of Dvārakā or anybody else, he don't know even that.

Prabhupāda: He's a fool. He does not know, therefore other does not know. It is not the fact. He's a fool, he does not know.

Dr. Sukla: He does not know. He said that Gītā is karma-yoga, and writes volumes and volumes...

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: It is not important.

Guest (2): Swamiji, you just said about the guru, in the Bhagavad-gītā, again after He is explaining to Arjuna all what He said, then ultimately he comes and he says—which the problem in our practical life comes which I see, I see it with me—he spoke very frankly, cañcalaṁ hi manaḥ kṛṣṇa pramāthi balavad dṛḍham (BG 6.34).

Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that?

Guest (2): After, you know, the Kṛṣṇa, He has explained to Arjuna all the religion and spirituality, and still a man of the caliber of Arjuna speaks, then he said, cañcalaṁ hi manaḥ kṛṣṇa pramāthi balavad dṛḍham, that verse.

Prabhupāda: That is said in the Sixth Chapter (BG 6.34).

Guest (2): That comes in practical life. One might even say that you try to go to a spiritual area, then all these things do come in everybody's life.

Prabhupāda: No, that was spoken in connection with practicing yoga.

Guest (2): But Arjuna got it due to guru, like Kṛṣṇa means is it possible in this age if one has the right guru, a man, he can elevate himself?

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No, (indistinct). There is separate arrangement for management, but the idea and philosophy is the same. Ultimately, I am managing. I have my twenty secretaries, they are called GBC, they are assisting me to manage. Every GBC has got a certain number of temples to supervise, and ultimately, I supervise everything. Therefore I come occasionally, stay for few days to see how things are going on. I have got hundred temples, big, big temples, very nice. They have organized palatial buildings, but I cannot stay anywhere. (laughter)

Mr. Boyd: That's the trouble with being boss. If you don't do it, nobody else will.

Prabhupāda: As soon as I say, "Ah, it is very nice place," the time is over, they say "You please get out." (laughter and groans from devotees)

Mr. Boyd: The school in Vṛndāvana, is this, I assume this is to be out there in the yard that they were clearing. When do you anticipate that will be built?

Prabhupāda: When they clear the land, we are going to construct a nice building for the school. As soon as it is done, then we will organize. Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān... (SB 7.6.1). From the very beginning of life, this Bhāgavata principle should be trained. That is perfect. Brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). They should be trained up how to read at the house of the spiritual master. They should be trained up how to control the senses, dānta. Dānta means to practice how to control the senses. That is the difference between human being and animal. Animal cannot be trained up how to control their senses. That is not possible. But a human being can be trained up to control his senses. The yoga practice is meant for controlling the sense. Yoga-indriya-saṁyamī. That is the real yoga practice, not that I indulge in sense gratification as I like, and I become a yogi. This is all bogus. This is not yoga. Yoga means how to control the senses. Then I can concentrate my mind towards God realization and self-realization. If my senses are always disturbing, it is not possible to apply my mind for self-realization. That is not possible. Therefore the yoga practice, preliminary practice, is yama-niyama, controlling, niyama, under regulative principles. They are all described in the Sixth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā and other Vedic literature also. And the ultimate end of yoga practice is to think of Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection of yoga. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1).

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Just like we can remember when we were young children playing in the park or at the streets, and then older, older, older; going to school; older, family life; older, now retired; now like this (indistinct). So like this the body is changing in so many ways but still I'm the same person. This can be practically experienced. Everyone has this understanding: different bodies but you're still the same person. So this spiritual identity should be the real concern, athāto brahma jijñāsā. This should be the real concern of the human society, not this temporary changing body. The whole human society is presently geared how to satisfy the demands of this temporary body. So we can see practically that this is fruitless. Ultimately we have to give up this body; ultimately we have to give up our connection with society, with family, with everything. So everything should have its proper place naturally, but the real focus of human life should be on the soul. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not only the soul, but the relationship of the soul with God. So practically speaking, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is a spiritual movement. We're trying to come to the platform, as Prabhupāda has been speaking in class in the mornings about sat-dharma: eternal religion or eternal activity of the soul. Sat means eternal. Here in this material world everything is temporary. By accident you may be born in America or in India or in Japan or in a human form or in a cat form, but it's temporary. But the soul is eternal and there is also a place: paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ (BG 8.20). Another place beyond this material world which is called the spiritual world. And that place is sanātana, that place is eternal, and Kṛṣṇa also is eternal. So, sat, sat-dharma or eternal occupation of the soul, eternal religion is that the living entity should be in this place, this eternal place where there's no change of body. That you have to take a body and then give it up, and then according to your work, take another body and then give it up, revolve in the cycle of birth and death unnecessarily. Go to the sanātana atmosphere, and there the sanātana Lord is there, and there the soul is in its natural environment, and the exchange of love that takes place in this spiritual world, this is Sat-dharma. So this temporary world of birth and death, this is asat. Kṛṣṇa says, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15).

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Apart from your believing as Christian. As we are talking, as a scientist, how do you deny this animal has no soul?

Mike Robinson: But ultimately you're basing all your faith factually, aren't you, on your reasoning?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. It is quite logic, that the animal can eat, you can eat; the animal can sleep, you can sleep. The animal can have sex, you can have sex; the animal can defend, you can defend; so why do you deny this poor animal soul?

Mike Robinson: Well, perhaps if I put my point perhaps a slightly different way, if, by your reasoning, if.... This is a hypothetical situation, but if you, by your reasoning, could imagine something that seemed contrary to the scriptures that you were reading earlier...

Prabhupāda: Again scripture, why do you bring scripture?

Mike Robinson: Well, I'm referring to your scripture, not...

Prabhupāda: Not my scripture, it is common sense, talking.

Mike Robinson: Yes, but everything that you, because in...

Prabhupāda: No, forget that everything, come to the common platform of understanding. The animal is eating, you are eating, the animal sleeping, you are sleeping. The animal is defending, you are defending. The animal is having sex, you have sex. The animal have children, you have got children. You have got a living place, they have got a living place. So why do you say.... If your body's cut, there is blood. If the animal body's cut, there is blood. So all the similarities are there. So why you deny one similarity? Analogy. Analogy means points of similarity. So this is logic. You have read logic? There is a chapter, analogy. Analogy means points of similarity. If the points of similarity are so many things, why one similarity should be avoided? That is not logic. That is not science.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: No, jñāna means that to understand the Absolute Truth. If you do not understand the Absolute Truth, what is the meaning of this jñāna? That means knowledge is imperfect. But if you want to know the Absolute Truth, ultimately, then bhakti is required. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). If you want to know the Absolute Truth, the Supreme Being, then you have to go through bhakti. Jñāna, so-called jñāna, bhakti includes. Just like bhakti includes everything, but jñāna does not include bhakti. It is imperfect. In jñāna there is little touch of bhakti, but in bhakti there is full jñāna. Because unless you... Absolute Truth is realized in three stages, brahmeti, paramātmeti, bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). So those who are on the stage of Brahman and Paramātmā, they're not in the Absolute Truth. Part of it. But when one understands Bhagavān, then he understands Paramātmā and Brahman. That is full knowledge. There are three things—sat, cit, ānanda. So Brahman realization is sat. Paramātmā realization is cit. But ānanda is not there. But if he does not get ānanda, then falls down.

Bhūgarbha: He says Christianity says the same thing. Not the Christianity of today, but original Christianity said the same thing.

Prabhupāda: Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). This is the Vedānta. We are, as spirit soul, being part and parcel of the Supreme, ānanda is our goal, ānanda, blissfulness. But that blissfulness, you cannot get simply by understanding sat-cit. You must come to the platform of ānanda. That is Kṛṣṇa. So because these so-called jñānīs, they do not get ānanda, they do not have the entrance into the ānanda platform, they come to this material ānanda, this material pleasure. Therefore they take to this hospitality or opening a school or philanthropic work, another type of this material pleasure. Therefore Śaṅkarācārya recommended:

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Vimṛśya, "Now you think over it." Not that blindly accept. You consider, make your deliberation, and then you do whatever you like. This freedom is given. What is the wrong there? Iti te jñānam ākhyātam, "I've explained to you all kinds of different types of knowledge, and ultimately, guhyatamam, the most confidential knowledge I've spoken to you, that you surrender to Me. Now you deliberate on this point very nicely, and then vimṛśya, then after full consideration, do whatever you like." It's everything up to you. There is no force. "If you want to remain in this material world, remain here, suffer life after life. Otherwise you come to Me." That is your choice. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6).

mām upetya punar janma
duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam
nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ
saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ
(BG 8.15)

Everything is there. He says very emphatically, vimṛśya, "Just judge, deliberately, consider it by full consideration. Then decide. You are quite at liberty to do whatever you like. I have spoken everything." This is your position, this is God's position. There is no force. God can force, but there is no force.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Unless one is put into practice, it is not possible. That is Vedic culture. From the beginning of life students were sent to gurukula for practicing how to become brahmacārī. That training (indistinct). Then they are trained as gṛhastha, then vānaprastha, and ultimately sannyāsa, completely renounced. Immediately, a person cannot be renounced, therefore gradually, step by step. So unless there is proper training... Now just like we are selling millions copies of these books, they are reading, and how many of them coming forward? So it requires training. Training is essential to make them Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Guest (5): I would rather request that you direct your efforts... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...guru.

Guest (5): Yes, sir.

Prabhupāda: If one goes in the village without any dress, without any, if he plays the part of Kṛṣṇa's and somebody plays the part of Rādhārāṇī, thousands of people will come. There is no need of film. Yatra-party.

Guest (4): Yatra-party, sir, in the films we do those...

Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say, that mass of people will come. As soon as they hear that here is some play going on, Kṛṣṇa pastimes, still in India...

Room Conversation -- August 16, 1976, Bombay:

Yaśomatīnandana: In other words, first one should understand Bhagavad-gītā. Then gradually the First Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Then ultimately Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Without that, simply taking Caitanya-caritāmṛta...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhagavad-gītā is the entrance. Then Bhāgavata is graduate and Caitanya-caritāmṛta... This is the step by step. But if one is sincere everything becomes revealed. He does not commit mistake.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Some devotees, especially in Vṛndāvana, who will always try to run to Hardwar, Jagannātha Purī, always parikrama of holy places.

Prabhupāda: It is good to go to holy places.

Acyutānanda: They go independently.

Yaśomatīnandana: Unauthorized.

Acyutānanda: They go more to avoid service than to become purified.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But there's no harm if they just...

Prabhupāda: You see you can become independent, nobody can check you. Everyone is independent. Yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). But one who wants to be regulated, he has to surrender. That is voluntary. Otherwise, everyone is free to do whatever he likes. And those who are surrendered souls, they will wait for the instruction of guru and do accordingly. That is the proper... guru-mukha-padma-vākya cittete kariyā aikya āra nā kariha **. That is wanted. Otherwise, everyone can remain independent. All living beings are independent. Even if I say that you do not do it, you are independent, you can do it. Even Kṛṣṇa gives independence to Arjuna. Yathecchasi tathā kuru. "I have told you everything. Now you do whatever you like." So that depends on the candidate. Everyone is free to do anything, but if he's actually serious then he has to do guru-mukha-padma-vākya cittete āra nā kariha **. This is...

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? What is your fault?

Jayapatākā: They always thought, because I am not so outspoken, that "Jayapatākā, we can get him to do as we like." But ultimately I don't do anything for them either, so now they don't like me either. Bhavānanda openly was against, and I was passive. I didn't say anything. But when they came to me I also... Actually I am afraid. Mādhava Mahārāja he invited me to attend his program, some festival day.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Jayapatākā: At his Maṭha.

Prabhupāda: Ten days? Ten days.

Jayapatākā: No, it was a three-day program. He invited us for one day. But I was afraid to go. He might even poison me. They personally went...

Prabhupāda: That is their business, especially Mādhava Mahārāja.

Jayapatākā: It not materially by poison, then spiritually by ear. One way or other, they have to give poison. So I didn't even want to go. I didn't go, either.

Prabhupāda: Śrīdhara Mahārāja is also within the group?

Room Conversation with Pandita from Tirupati and Government Minister -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Paṇḍita: Now, this Bhagavad-gītā, this Śrī Bhāṣya of Rāmānuja, and commentary on which is Śruta-prakāśikā, composed by one Sudarśana Suri... He was later, about hundred years later than Rāmānuja. He has commented on Śrī Bhāṣya. These works are the standard works, for (indistinct). Actually it is the foundation over which the superstructure is constructed by Vedānta-deśika.

Prabhupāda: You see, we have got different philosophical... Ultimately the conclusion is how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa.

Paṇḍita: That is it.

Prabhupāda: So the Western countries, their brain is not so sharp to clearly understand the difference between viśiṣṭādvaita, advaita-dvaita, dvaitādvaita, or advaita. (laughs) Their brain does not allow to think very deeply about... So we are simply teaching them, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). That includes all philosophy. In this way we are preaching all over the world and there is little response. We are selling our books very nicely. So our main purpose is to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our main... So what is your idea now. How you want to utilize your learning about Vaiṣṇava philosophy? Yes. Yes. How you want to do it?

Paṇḍita: Now, this is my idea. That knowledge that I have must be utilized in this manner. It can be utilized in this manner. You are creating so many disciples. They are interested in learning Gītā and the philosophy and other things. Serious students who are interested in philosophy, who would like to go sit and...

Prabhupāda: You'll find hardly anyone interested in philosophy nowadays. They are interested in technology. In Western countries the universities are closing philosophical class. No student is coming. This is the position.

Evening Darsana -- September 1, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Go on, go on. I have given any purport?

Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There are many devotees who assume themselves to be in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and devotional service but at heart do not accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, as the Absolute Truth. For them, the fruit of devotional service-going back to Godhead—will never be tasted. Similarly, those who are engaged in fruitive, pious activities and who are ultimately hoping to be liberated from this material entanglement will never be successful either because they deride the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. In other words, persons who mock Kṛṣṇa are to be understood to be demonic or atheistic. As described in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, such demonic miscreants never surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore their mental speculations to arrive at the Absolute Truth bring them to the false conclusion that the ordinary living entity and Kṛṣṇa are one and the same. With such a false conviction, they think that the body of any human being is now simply covered by material nature and that as soon as one is liberated from this material body there is no difference between God and himself. This attempt to become one with Kṛṣṇa will be baffled because of delusion. Such atheistic and demoniac cultivation of spiritual knowledge is always futile. That is the indication of this verse. For such persons, cultivation of the knowledge in the Vedic literature, like the Vedānta-sūtra and the Upaniṣads, is always baffled.

Evening Darsana -- September 1, 1976, Delhi:

Pradyumna: Yes, Bhāgavatam, we're up to the Seventh Canto now in the printing. Yes, the canto has come out. So Saptama-skandha, pādyokta. We're up to that.

Indian man (3): Now, well then if it is, if the member is (indistinct). Now in the Eleventh there is...

Prabhupāda: Eleventh Canto, yes. When you will remember the verse?

Indian man (3): No, no, number (indistinct) again and again I had gone to (indistinct) and as to that, ultimately there is no difference. As soon as this (indistinct) when it comes. I would like this because I belong to the sect of our country, middle sect, from Swami Narayana. He's based on Rāmānujācārya philosophy which says that all the souls are there, they are the body of the creator Bhagavān. Just as the human ātmā has a body, this means there is the difference also identity. Identity is one and yet they have their own place. That have been the faith (indistinct). Now in many places this sometimes this differentiation remains, sometimes there is things said which wipe it out. I thought you would be the best person to give a guidance...

Prabhupāda: As you say that, Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad-gita, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). We living entities, we are part and parcel of God. Aṁśa. So any common man can understand.... (end)

Room Conversation -- September 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This is sādhu. The first qualification is titikṣava. very tolerant. And Cāṇakya Paṇḍita has said kṣamā-rūpaṁ tapasvinām. Those who are tapasvīs, their first duty is how much he is forgiving. How much he has learned to forgive. Kṣamā-rūpaṁ tapasvinām. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa śamena damena (SB 6.1.13). So what is the explanation?

Harikeśa: Purport? A sādhu, as described above, is a devotee of the Lord. His concern, therefore, is to enlighten people in devotional service to the Lord. That is his mercy. He knows that without devotional service to the Lord, human life is spoiled. A devotee travels all over the country, from door to door, preaching, "Be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Be a devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa. Don't spoil your life in simply fulfilling your animal propensities. Human life is meant for self-realization, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness." These are the preachings of a sādhu. He is not satisfied with his own liberation. He always thinks about others. He is the most compassionate personality towards all the fallen souls. One of his qualifications, therefore, is kāruṇika, great mercy to the fallen souls. While engaged in preaching work, he has to meet with so many opposing elements, and therefore the sādhu, or devotee of the Lord, has to be very tolerant. Someone may ill-treat him because the conditioned souls are not prepared to receive the transcendental knowledge of devotional service. They do not like it; that is their disease. The sādhu has the thankless task of impressing upon them the importance of devotional service. Sometimes devotees are personally attacked with violence. Lord Jesus Christ was crucified, Haridāsa Ṭhākura was caned in twenty-two marketplaces, and Lord Caitanya's principal assistant, Nityānanda, was violently attacked by Jagāi and Mādhāi. But still they were tolerant because their mission was to deliver the fallen souls. One of the qualifications of a sādhu is that he is very tolerant and is merciful to all fallen souls. He is merciful because he is the well-wisher of all living entities. He is not only a well-wisher of human society, but a well-wisher of animal society as well. It is said here, sarva-dehinām, which indicates all living entities who have accepted material bodies. Not only does the human being have a material body, but other living entities, such as cats and dogs, also have material bodies. The devotee of the Lord is merciful to everyone—the cats, dogs, trees, etc. He treats all living entities in such a way that they can ultimately get salvation from this material entanglement. Śivānanda Sena, one of the disciples of Lord Caitanya, gave liberation to a dog by treating the dog transcendentally.

Garden Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Then he should stick to Deity worship very nicely. Following the rules and regulations, cleansing. Śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra-tan-mandira-mārjanādau **. This nitya, you take very seriously.

Akṣayānanda: And then when he becomes advanced....

Prabhupāda: Automatically he will be anxious to preach. Automatically.

Akṣayānanda: Ultimately.

Prabhupāda: Not ultimately. Automatically. Just like in a small time, our, that Kṛṣṇa dāsa? He knows English, he knows French, he knows... What does it mean? He has heard it. Now he'll want to speak. That is the natural sequence. If anyone has listened from the authority about Kṛṣṇa, he wants to speak again. That is preaching. Not that "I have listened about Kṛṣṇa, that's all right." No. When he wants to speak to others, that is advancement. That is wanted. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. That is the test that he has advanced. Nāma, rūpa, guṇa, līlā (indistinct).

Devotee: Does he have to speak immediately, or he can speak after some time.

Prabhupāda: No, no, not immediately. Immediately how you can speak. Unless he knows, what he'll speak? It is better not to speak than speaking all nonsense. He must learn first of all what is the philosophy, what is the science. Then he can speak. (break)

Vipramukhya:. These Turks are yavanas? Demons and yavanas?

Letter to Sai Baba -- September 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Pradyumna: "Those who are worshipers of demigods have been described as less intelligent persons, and here the impersonalists are similarly described. Lord Kṛṣṇa in His personal form is here speaking before Arjuna, and still, due to ignorance, impersonalists argue that the Supreme Lord ultimately has no form. Yāmunācārya, a great devotee of the Lord in the disciplic succession from Rāmānujācārya, has written two very appropriate verses in this connection. He says, 'My dear Lord, devotees like Vyāsadeva and Nārada know You to be the Personality of Godhead. By understanding different Vedic literatures, one can come to know Your characteristics, Your form and Your activities, and one can thus understand that You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But those who are in the modes of passion and ignorance, the demons, the nondevotees, cannot understand You. They are unable to understand You. However expert such nondevotees may be in discussing Vedānta and the Upaniṣads and other Vedic literatures, it is not possible for them to understand the Personality of Godhead.' In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is stated that the Personality of Godhead cannot be understood simply by study of the Vedānta literature. Only by the mercy of the Supreme Lord can the Personality of the Supreme be known. Therefore in this verse it is clearly stated that not only the worshipers of the demigods are less intelligent, but those nondevotees who are engaged in Vedānta and speculation on Vedic literature..."

Prabhupāda: You can give up to that Yāmunācārya's quotation. What you have written.

Pradyumna: So far? Everything? Or just... Only, is one's word only...

Room Conversation -- October 26, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is exactly the same case. Punar muṣaka bhava, you know the whole story? A muṣaka, a mouse, was made a tiger, and the tiger wanted to eat the saintly person who made him. First of all he was mouse. So he came to the saintly person. "Sir, I am troubled. Give me some benediction." "What do you want?" "Now, the cat always chases." "All right, you become cat so that you'll not be attacked." Then after some time he came. "I am being chased by the dog." "All right, you become a dog." From cat to dog, from mouse to... Then again he came. "Still, they are chasing me. Fox." And then in this way, and ultimately he made a tiger. And after becoming a tiger, he began to look, staring on the... "What do you mean by this?" "I shall eat you." "Oh? You become again a mouse." (laughter) Again he became mouse. That's all.

Hari-śauri: The perfect example.

Devotee: Now he looks like dirty. You know, like brown. The dhotī's not white. It's like brownish.

Prabhupāda: He harassed. "He has not increased my..." Hearing and hearing, he wants to go. So why not, if he found some real disciplic succession, some bābājī, why he did not remain there? He is criticizing that our is not in the proper succession. So why he did not remain where he found the proper succession? Why he's sometimes in Vṛndāvana, sometimes Delhi, sometimes here. Why he is loitering? Crazy. Unfortunate. Unnecessarily picking out some trouble.

Hari-śauri: Faultfinding.

Prabhupāda: The bābājīs, they are against anything preaching. They are very, very much against preaching. So I am preaching. Bābājīs, the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, and all of them, their idea is that I am ruining this bhajana and Hindu dharma. This is the propaganda. What I am writing, they are all wrong. And they are making... And they try to poison my disciples as far as possible so that the whole institution may be poisoned and break. This is their propaganda.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But they collect money by selling book.

Haṁsadūta: I know but people don't understand this. They simply see that, "Oh, these are astronomical sums of money being collected. So what is being done with this money by people who are just chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa? What do they do with it?" Then, "Oh, they have bought this big building in New York, they are doing spending money like this, like that." Ultimately this is what it always come to, money. They want to see what is happening with the money.

Prabhupāda: And similarly here also, "Where they are getting money?"

Haṁsadūta: Yeah, because wherever there is money transaction, the government wants to take some. They feel, "Well, we should have some of this money for ourselves, also."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: So this may be a problem in this case. The thing about brain washing is not at all important. The important thing is if they look into our financial...

Prabhupāda: That is our BBT trust...

Haṁsadūta: Activities.

Prabhupāda: That by the sales of, sales proceeds, we 50% printing expansion, temples.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Ha. So (Hindi). He will go with you, immediately. Meeting arrange (Hindi). Thank you very much. (pause) Combine together in Vṛndāvana. Fight! Without fight where is life? If there is no fighting then what is that life? That is dead stone. Fight must be there. Kṛṣṇa's whole life is fighting from the very birth. His father carried Him to Gokula where He (indistinct) and He fell down from the Yamunā and... Just born, fighting began. Just born. And at Yaśodāmayī's house, Nanda Mahārāja's house, so many demons daily coming, Śakaṭāsura, Aghāsura, Bakāsura, Pūtanā, so on, so on, so on. Ultimately Kaṁsa, when He was young boy. Vṛndāvana, so many asuras came. You have seen the pictures? Kṛṣṇa is fighting with the horse demon, with the bull, Dyutiman (?), fighting. If Kṛṣṇa is fighting, why not Kṛṣṇa consciousness the same thing. You cannot expect peaceful life. No, there must be fighting, then think "That is Kṛṣṇa's presence, His fight." So this fighting means they're feeling the presence of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Otherwise why they're (indistinct) fight? Had it been an insignificant thing, there was no question of fighting. (Hindi) The gun, howitzer gun, what is that? German, some gun they will go from this part of, this side of English Channel to other. Calais, the other side Calais?

Devotees: Calais.

Prabhupāda: Calais in France. So from France to other side English Channel, London, that's all right.

Guest: Artillery guns?

Prabhupāda: Yes, they... Hitler invented. The gun will be fired from this side.

Hari-śauri: Big, huge gun.

Evening Darsana -- December 3, 1976, Hyderabad:

Vāsughoṣa: They feel great anxiety to talk about God. Once, about three years ago, I had met one big scientist from University of Chicago. Just a chance there was one... My father had invited me back home for something. The scientist was there. We got in a big discussion with him and his daughter. They were just saying, "We don't see God. There is no evidence of God." Even logically we could show them. They still didn't want to accept. It was so obvious to them. Ultimately they couldn't say anything.

Prabhupāda: What is their logic to deny God?

Vāsughoṣa: They don't have any logic. And ultimately, if we present our conclusions of Bhagavad-gītā to them, they are silent. They can't say anything but they still refuse. They don't accept it, but they can't deny it.

Prabhupāda: That is dog's obstinacy. The dog, however you ask the dog to stop barking, it will go on barking. Dog's obstinacy. Hm. What is that? I have taken.

Tejiyas: "But in the management... But the management is being conducted by material nature. Kṛṣṇa also states in Bhagavad-gītā that of all the living entities in different forms and species, 'I am the Father.' The father gives seeds to the womb of the mother for the child, and similarly the Supreme Lord by His mere glance injects all the living entities into the womb of material nature, and they come out in their different forms and species, according to their last desires and activities. All these living entities, although born under the glance of the Supreme Lord, still take their different bodies according to their past deeds and desires. So the Lord is not directly attached to this material creation. He simply glances over material nature; material nature is thus activated, and everything is created immediately.

Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Then that is his wish. (pause) This is our movement.

Guest (4): Through meditation you attain mukti?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest (4): Through meditation ultimately you attain Him.

Prabhupāda: What do you mean by meditation?

Guest (4): I don't know, but normally it is understood to be...

Prabhupāda: Then why you are talking of meditation?

Guest (4): Normally as it is understood by.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Guest (4): Concentration.

Prabhupāda: Which concentration? What is the subject?

Guest (4): It can be from man to man, from... One may do it on Kṛṣṇa and one may do it on...

Prabhupāda: That is not standard. If meditation is according to one's whims, that is not meditation.

Guest (4): But it depends upon the faith.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Not supreme. He says this is of the person, different ways of thinking. But everywhere He is stressing bhakti. Just like generally people are karmī. Karmīs. They are working hard. And he has made his plan. He has made his plan that, "In this way, I shall be happy." So throughout the whole world, the beginning from animals, lower than the man, and then men, different types of men... So manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi, every one of them, he is planning or he is thinking in different ways. So the animals, they cannot understand the master's answer. But in the human being, they are according to the mind, mental concoction and planning, there are four classes of men. One class is called karmī. They are thinking that by working hard and trying to find out my own way of happiness, they will be happy. This is called karmī. Without any knowledge, they are simply working. They are actually like the animals. The animals, the dog, is jumping, a few miles he is jumping. He is thinking that "By jumping I shall be happy." Or for the time being he may happy by jumping. And sometimes thinking otherwise. So karmīs, they do not know what is the actual aim of life. Out of many millions of persons, mostly they are karmīs. They do not know what is the actual aim of life. But they are devising different plans, that I shall be happy in this way." This is called karmī. He does not take the standard way of happiness. Then the next elevated person is jñānī. He thinks, ponders, that "I have worked so hard, but still I could not become happy." The jñānī. He searches out philosophically. Then next class, yogi. Yogi concentrates the mind to think over, "What is my problem? Why I am not happy? How he can become happy?" He is trying to, very soberly, to understand. Yoga means controlling the senses, and the master of the senses is the mind. So he, trying to make the mind concentrated on the fact, he is yogi. And then the next stage is... If he is yogi, then there are different types of yoga system. But when he comes to the point that "I am not master. There is one master, controller. So master, whatever master orders, I have to execute that. That is my real happiness." Bhakta. So karmī, jñānī, yogi, and bhakta. So out of these four classes of men, the three classes means karmī, jñānī and yogi, they are restless. Because they actually did not find out what is the solution. One after another, there are different classes, there are classification. One is better than the other. That is another thing. But none of them... They are still misled. A karmī, he is thinking that "I am poor man. If I become rich man, I will be happy." He is thinking in that way. Jñānī is thinking that "Poor and rich doesn't matter. I am Brahman. I am spirit soul. If I merge into the Supreme Brahman I will be happy." Yogi is thinking that "The Absolute is present everywhere in His personal feature. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). So if I become one with Him, I will be happy." But still there is a demand, "If I become like this." So so long he is not self-realized, he will try to become something and so long he'll try to become something, then there will be restlessness. There cannot be happiness. And when he comes to the realization point that "Why I am trying to become something, I am this and this that is my position," then he becomes happy. That is bhakti. Everyone is trying to become something. And bhakta knows "I am this." There is no question of becoming. And this is my position. Very nice. Therefore Kṛṣṇa ultimately said that "This is the most confidential knowledge, Arjuna. I am teaching you so many things. There is no need of understanding so many things. The real thing is that I am the master, you are My servant. You surrender unto Me, that's all. Then you'll be happy."

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So nirākāra... If you are speaking, then how he can become nirākāra?

Guest (4): He actually defines what prevails in the universe, what is that element which governs us.

Prabhupāda: Let us just discuss from the point. As you say, that I think and I speak, so when you speak, when you think, whether you are nirākāra or ākāra.

Guest (4): He defines, ultimately, after all thinking...

Prabhupāda: I am asking you.

Guest (4): He has come to that conclusion.

Prabhupāda: I'm asking you that when you think, when you... What is that other thing? Speak. So can anybody who is nirākāra, he can think and speak? Is there any experience? So what is the use of talking like that?

Dr. Patel: Thinking is done by the mind and mind is not soul.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So, no, whatever it may be. If I think, if I speak, I am ākāra. I'm not nirākāra. And that is for everyone. This is contra...

Guest (4): What is that "everyone"?

Prabhupāda: What it may be. First come to the platform of understanding. As soon as I think, I speak, this speaking, I'm thinking, is not coming from nirākāra.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, He... Nirākāra is there. So far His management power is going on, that is nirākāra. But that nirākāra does not mean that I am also nirākāra. That is the defect. The Supreme Person, it is confirmed by the śāstra. The Absolute Truth is person ultimately.

vadanti tat tattva-vidas
tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam
brahmeti paramātmeti
bhagavān iti śabdyate
(SB 1.2.11)

So those who are simply captivated by the Brahman, nirākāra, they are in the, just in the beginning of knowledge. Their knowledge is not perfect. That is not Vedānta. That is knowledge, but it is not anta. And Vedānta means the ultimate knowledge. And that is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). If one does not know Kṛṣṇa, he's not a Vedāntist. That is my point . He does not know what is Vedānta. The veda-anta means Kṛṣṇa. Anta means the last word. The last word is brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. Bhagavān. Unless one goes to the Supreme Lord Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa, he's not a Vedāntist. That is my point. Veda means knowledge.

Dr. Patel: Śrī Śaṅkarācārya also said bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindam...

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, this is a contradictory. We say God is person, and you say nirākāra. That is the difference. Why God should be nirākāra?

Guest (5): Ultimately, it is the...

Prabhupāda: Ultimately, you say nirākāra. We say ultimately ākāra. And that is the difference, gulf of difference. That is going on. We shall worship Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa there. With our ārati, just like we are doing in the temple. Perhaps your swamiji will not like this. And as soon as there is some contradiction...

Guest (5): No. Our main theme at the Kumbha-mela is to speak direct to sādhus who come from Himalayas because mainly since 150 years this institution is serving them at Hardwar and Prayaga. They don't walk down to Ujjain or Nasik. Mainly they come at Hardwar and Allahabad.

Prabhupāda: So if you kindly give us a camp, but we shall preach this.

Guest (5): You are at liberty. There is no ban on it. Actually, you see we, as we said, we are serving the humanity directly.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That all right. Nice. But sometimes, if somebody differs, that is not very palatable .

Guest (5): No, no, Swamiji. There is no... We welcome you there. I told Mangala when she came that we are not preaching a particular thing. We are going there to serve the people who come who are intellectual.

Prabhupāda: For spiritual enlightenment. That's nice.

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Punjabi.

Indian man: Hindu brāhmaṇa. But there the brāhmaṇas also eat meat. Kashmiri brāhmaṇas eat meat. So he was about 25, 24 years old at that time. When he reached Bhavnagar, he could not get a house. There were so many "To Let's" but wherever he went he was told no. So after all he got fed up, he inquired what is the reason. He said "You are a non-Katyawari, non-Saurastri. You are from the frontier, so you must be eating meat and eggs. So we'll not give you our house." So ultimately, one of his business friends, because he was the manager of the office after a month or so, one of the business friends he said, "All right, I'll get you a house if you give a written undertaking that you'll not eat meat." So he said, "Okay, thank you. I'll write undertaking that I'll not eat meat." One year passed. But when he used to come back from office, in front of a particular shop he used to see... In those days even a crowd of twenty persons in front of a shop was a big thing. So he would see ten, fifteen people and eat what is stop in a shop and take a small tiffin box, drop off a small tiffin box and walk away. So one day he also stopped there and he asked the shopwala for this tiffin box. "What you are giving in there?" "That," he said, "is not for you." "What is this?" He said "It's not for you. You'll not get it." Then he visited that fellow five, six times, then ultimately, that man said, "Look here, why you want to know all about that? It's not meant for you, and you'll not be able to use it." He said, "What is, can you tell me." Then he brought it, gave it to him, he opened it. It was minced meat. "But it's meat." How do you know it is meat?" He said, "I have been living in Punjab for all of my life. I know what is meat." He said, "Now don't shout. Go away from here. They are my customers." "They are your customers? They are the very people who have been refusing me a house!" The same people.

Morning Walk -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Jagadīśa: People are lazy and unfortunate. They have no knowledge. And besides that, they are misled by foolish leaders. The leaders are intent only on deriving sense gratification from their so-called high position. In the Bhāgavatam also it is explained that men who are like dogs, hogs, camels and asses praise those men who do not glorify the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is a civilization of fools, a fool's paradise where the common people are allowed to elect from amongst them one so-called leader who is the biggest rascal because he doesn't know anything, and none of the others, the common, people know anything about the purpose of life, and yet this so-called leader becomes elected on the basis that he can do something to help suffering humanity. The material existence is nothing but a struggle against material nature which ultimately has no value. But it's an illusory struggle because of the spirit soul...

Prabhupāda: Why it has no value?

Jagadīśa: Because there is no...

Prabhupāda: He'll not say that is has no value. You must give the reason why it has no value.

Jagadīśa: It has no value because there is no permanent connection between the spirit soul and the material energy. There are two kinds of energy: material energy and spiritual energy. We have experience of both. The material energy is described in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh. Indian lady?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi conversation with lady) You cannot do anything. Ultimately they will say no and for this they are paying (indistinct). (Hindi with lady) Very nice. You have got the desire and Kṛṣṇa will fulfill your desire. (Hindi) Then with practice, then it becomes successful. Ādau śraddhā tato sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness can be increased by gradual process. First thing, just like you have got faith, it is nice thing. This is śraddhā. Then to associate with persons who are already engaged in this business, sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83). That is called sādhu-saṅga. Ādau śraddhā tato, and then act like them, bhajana-kriyā. Simply theoretical will not help.

Indian Lady: (more Hindi conversation with S.P.)

Prabhupāda: So where you have given her place, Girirāja?

Girirāja: In the, one of the guest rooms.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. (pause) Biragati, biranadi (?). (break) ...to me. (indistinct) Not personally, but the daughter of the, wife of the, the mother of the, that is right position. Just like Kunti, she was the mother of Vir, Arjuna's mother. Mm.

Indian Lady: Should I read what I have written?

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, first of all try to understand. Just like the sunshine. The sunshine is important or the sun is important?

Guest (2): The original sun.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Similarly, this impersonal Brahman illumination or effulgence, that is the bodily rays of Kṛṣṇa. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi (Bs. 5.40). So ultimately Kṛṣṇa is important, not this impersonal Brahman illumination. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti sabdyate (SB 1.2.11). You see practical example and learn here in the śāstra. You'll understand Kṛṣṇa is the origin. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo (BG 10.8), personally says. Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. So Brahman also pravartate. But if you don't believe Kṛṣṇa and śāstra, that is different thing. Then you cannot be convinced. Śāstra-cakṣuṣāt. Your eyes should be through the śāstra, not by manufacturing ideas. So śāstras says this.

yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-
koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam
tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa-bhūtaṁ
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
(Bs. 5.40)

This is śāstra, Brahma-saṁhitā, that "This brahma-jyotir is the bodily rays of Kṛṣṇa. Govinda." So the rays of Govinda is not so important as Govinda is important. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. And Govinda personally says, ahaṁ sarvasya... Sarvasya means everything, including Brahman.

Guest (2): With all due respect, I was talking of Brahman.

Prabhupāda: I am speaking of Brahman. Brahman means this brahma-jyotir. You mean that. Yes, I am speaking that. This brahma-jyotir...

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Haṁsadūta: I mean I talked with Mahāṁsa also. I talked with him when he came back day before yesterday. Talked with him very frankly and openly. Of course, he always says, "Yes, yes, yes," and then he just does whatever he feels should be done. And Tejas also... Now, Tejas, for example, he started a vegetable garden, and it was going on very nicely, but then everything dried up because all the workers, they work under Mahāṁsa. They're all accustomed to taking instructions from him. And so the plants were not watered. Mahāṁsa continually put the water someplace else. So now everything that Tejas has done is frustrated. So he feels, "Why should I be here?" Tejas, I think, has something really to offer. I think he's experienced, but if he's not given a field and some space to exercise his talent, he's going to go away, and I feel, without Tejas... I mean there's no one else I can refer to about these matters. I don't know anything about farming. I don't know planting. But Tejas seems to know. And he speaks Telegu also, and he also is one of our devotees. And I have more faith in Tejas than I would any other person who we might consult. But ultimately Tejas is, I think, more important than anyone else because he is your devotee, and he's very faithful and responsible. And one other thing which Tejas... When he was there, he worked out financial..., what he saw was the actual financial picture of how Mahāṁsa had been investing money in the past and what kind of result he had been getting on the basis of labor and...

Prabhupāda: Now the money which we have transferred, so that is... You are three signatures.

Haṁsadūta: We are three signatures, yes.

Prabhupāda: So...

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is a superstition that one should not lie down keeping the head on the northern side. So one says that "I have no head at all. So why shall I bother about keeping my head this way or that way?" Similarly, keep no head, so there will be no question of keeping northern side or southern side. That I want. We have no such program. You spend all money. I want that whatever collection is there, you spend. There is no account, and there will be no question of income tax. We are beggars. Whatever money you get, you spend. That's all.

Mr. Asnani: So your books will also show you, ultimately at end of year, expenditure, income, equalized, neutralized.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I am insisting: whatever money we have got in the bank, spend it for printing. Keep the books. That's all. I am insisting this point everywhere. You kept that money seven thousand, seven lakhs or what?

Haṁsadūta: I was going to spend it. I spent every month, but they came at the end of the month.

Prabhupāda: Therefore the botheration came, in Germany. He was waiting for sending the money for food distribution. In the meantime, they created trouble. Anyway, we should be free like that. Spend all money immediately. (break) I say that, that don't keep any more money in the bank. Spend it.

Mr. Asnani: And keep the receipts and vouchers.

Girirāja: Yes, that we do.

Prabhupāda: Follow this policy. Just like govindāya namaḥ. When you see that the puffed rice is flying in the air, "All right, govindāya namaḥ. Govindāya namaḥ."

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa has already given you. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekāṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That is simple truth. Believe in Kṛṣṇa. That means Supreme Personality of Godhead. Whatever He says is truth. That's all. This is intelligence: "Whatever Kṛṣṇa says, that is truth."

Hari-śauri: Even if one is not so clever, still, if he simply repeats and presents Kṛṣṇa, then that's enough.

Prabhupāda: Firm faith. Firm faith: "Whatever Kṛṣṇa says is all right."

Hari-śauri: Because ultimately Kṛṣṇa is the doer of everything.

Prabhupāda: Śraddhā-śabde viśvāsa sudṛḍha niścaya. This is basic platform, that "What Kṛṣṇa says, that is truth." Kṛṣṇa bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya: "If I follow Kṛṣṇa, then my business is complete." This is intelligence. Now... We have come to the open field. How it is nice. And so long we were passing through that congested areas-hellish, simply hellish. And now here is open space. How it is nice.

Hari-śauri: To enter into a city is so imposing on your consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Up to that point, simply rubbish, all papers thrown here and there. People are living in... Now see here, how it is open and pleasing. Organize this farm project. Farm. (background talking)

Hari-śauri: He's just saying that in the West one requires a great deal of capital. To start a farm, to get the land, you need a lot of money because land is very expensive. And also we have to use modern farming techniques because we have so few men to run the farms.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Hari-śauri: As a person becomes more purified, then he'll simplify himself anyway. And if he really cultivates a desire to...

Prabhupāda: Now, nowadays coat-pant is very costly. If you can spend your money, costly dress, we have no objection. Then you have to earn more; you have to work more. Therefore we are simplified.

Rāmeśvara: Ultimately, it is the best thing.

Prabhupāda: If they want to come in that dress, come in. If you want, come in.

Rāmeśvara: I have been studying this record business in the last month or two.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Rāmeśvara: I've been studying the record business in America. People spend more money on records than they do on books. In general people are buying more records than books.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Give them some seat. Is there any carpet? Bring something.

Hari-śauri: What time do you want to take prasādam, Śrīla Prabhupāda? It's 8:25 now.

Prabhupāda: Whenever... You take?

Hari-śauri: Well, we'll all take in that other carriage, and you can eat undisturbed. I'll remain here or whatever you want.

Prabhupāda: I may take little later.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Just like sex life is enjoyment, but a person who is suffering from tuberculosis—his death. He'll die if he indulges in sex life. That is medical science. "So it is condemned in the material world, not in the spiritual world. If you have good health, you can enjoy sex life. But you have tuberculosis? You'll die. Your sex life is death, and their sex life is life. That you cannot understand. You have such a poor brain that you could not follow even ordinary moral instruction of Jesus Christ." Answer should be given like that. "If you remain with your poor brain, don't try to argue. Be satisfied, your poor doggish brain, hoggish brain. You are like pigs and dogs. What you can understand about religion? First of all try to train yourself to be free from the sinful activities. Then you'll understand what is religion." Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam (BG 7.28). Ultimately, a person, sinful man, cannot go to the kingdom of God. Is it not? First of all stop this sex life; then talk of God. It is a fact. When the order of Jesus Christ, "Thou shall not kill," for the last two thousand years the rascals have never stopped killing. They are simply increasing slaughterhouse. And... So they are so poor in understanding, they say animal has no soul.

Rāmeśvara: That is their excuse.

Prabhupāda: But who cares for this excuse? It is not scientific. Is there any difference, anatomy and physiology, of the animals and the...

Rāmeśvara: They do not know what the soul means.

Prabhupāda: That's it. Now, when there is opportunity, condemn them like anything. It is opportunity to expose them.

Hari-śauri: We should do that, expose them?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not? When they are attacking, you must attack.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: So, one thing is that if you have proved a swine, what is the value of your arguments? You have proved that you are a swine. So better stop arguing. What I say, you accept. That is good for you. Because you are descendants of swine, and actually you are doing that.

Rāmeśvara: Actually, on one television show they directly accused Your Divine Grace. They said that you have got us going out every day collecting money, and we have to send all this money to India, to Māyāpur, to build one temple so that you will become famous. And ultimately we will worship you as God.

Prabhupāda: Well, already famous. What is that famous?

Rāmeśvara: That was their argument.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. A famous man must be famous. He cannot be famous, famous. What you have done that you'll be famous? You are swine. You cannot be famous.

Rāmeśvara: They are subscribing to our newsletter. They somehow or other get our newsletter, and they read about our Māyāpur city costing so many lakhs and crores. So they became envious. That's all.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That's all right. We are selling books. That is my book. I can spend in such a way.

Rāmeśvara: It was just envy.

Prabhupāda: Envy is envy. But it is my book. I am selling. So I can take the price anywhere. That is my right. You have nothing to say. You stop your men to purchase, that's all. Otherwise I'll sell anywhere and I shall spend anywhere. I have got the right.

Rāmeśvara: Normally they do not attack you.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Hari-śauri: "Whatever remedies they accept, although perhaps temporarily beneficial, are certainly impermanent. For example, a father and mother cannot protect their child, a physician and medicine cannot relieve a suffering patient, and a boat on the ocean cannot protect a drowning man."

Prabhupāda: These are facts.

Gargamuni: That's ultimately, but maybe we could give you some temporary relief so we don't feel... Because when you are ill, we feel...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is... But for that, no severe treatment should be accepted. Better not to take. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the past, when your health has not been good, they have begun chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa in all the temples...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhavānanda: ...all around the world.

Rāmeśvara: Special, additional kīrtana.

Bhavānanda: Perhaps we should institute that. That would...

Prabhupāda: No, you... Not for my health you do your kīrtana, only then. That first stroke in Second Avenue, that was fatal. You were present, I think.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Ghostly-haunted. māyā is acting as ghost. They attack mostly their guardians-father, mother. These ghostly-haunted men becomes very inimical to the guardians and wants to kill them. Many cases. And abuses the father, mother, like anything. "Ah! You rascal! Why you have come? I shall kill you!" Like that. I have seen it. Mad, you call, or ghostly-haunted. Very dangerous.

Jayapatākā: What is the cure?

Prabhupāda: No cure. He must die. No cure. These hospitals are there, mental. They keep in the mental hospital. But ultimately there is no cure.

Jayapatākā: I read one... In a purport you said that hari-nāma can even cure insane people.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Hari-nāma can cure anything. You have kept there. All right.

Jayapatākā: Would you like to take a drive to that... (end)

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: They would say, "How do you know God said that? Just because it is written in a book, how do you know?"

Prabhupāda: No, it is not in the book. It is accepted, all the authorities.

Rāmeśvara: But they would question everything.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing.

Gargamuni: It requires faith ultimately, some faith.

Rāmeśvara: Especially in America today...

Prabhupāda: Faith you must have. Because you have no faith in authority, therefore you are dull.

Rāmeśvara: Because all their authorities have cheated them. The President has cheated them, the bankers have cheated them...

Prabhupāda: But they are not authorities. Authorities mean those who are in the paramparā system. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2).

Rāmeśvara: Of course, in America they have no experience with saintly men. There has never been a saintly man in the history of America. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: They don't know the meaning of saintliness.

Prabhupāda: But they know... Why they accept Lord Jesus Christ? But they do not believe even Jesus Christ.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That is good.

Gargamuni: (pause) The nature's law is that if you are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, you'll be put into trouble. Yes. The law is there. That is daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot surpass.

Gargamuni: They're always being harassed.

Prabhupāda: And they are trying to save harassment by nature's law. That is impossible. That is ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā, rascal, and under false prestige they are trying to save themselves. And ultimately crushed—death. Struggling, struggling... Now, last word—death. Finish. Now, according to your karma, "All right, you just become a tree." Finish. "Stand up here for five thousand years." This is nature's... And these rascal scientists have no knowledge of this, "Wherefrom the tree comes? Why the tree is standing there for five thousand years, and I have got good car? Why this difference of position? He is also living entity; I am also." They have no brain. That is also living entity. "This tree is dead." Dead means it has life. So wherefrom the life came? Who made him a tree and made him a prime minister? Who made him? They cannot answer all these questions. Simply blindly following their own mental concoction. Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). Everything is there.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No. You are nonsense, that is accepted, but do not think that because you have manufactured printing press, you have become God. That is our proposal. We give you credit. And we can also say that without your printing press, people were not dying. Formerly people were copying. Everyone's business was going on. There was no need of mass studying. Only the brāhmaṇas, they used to copy and they used to vibrate the knowledge. And those who were interested, they were hearing and getting the knowledge. So what was the harm? It is little facility that... The same logic: The dog is running, four legs, you are running by four wheels. That does not mean that the dog will die, you'll not die. You'll die also, and dog will die. So this four-wheel car will not help you ultimately. Ultimately you have to die.

Satsvarūpa: Because it is modern times, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement can keep pace with all these things, but we don't need them. We can use this, but if we don't have it, then we don't need it.

Prabhupāda: We don't support it. Our business does not support. You can live without car, but you cannot live without rainfall. Why don't you take the important business? Make machine that the water from the sea can be drawn and saltless and distributed. Why don't you do that?

Satsvarūpa: They've put aside the big problems and doing little things.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Childish. Every day the consumer's goods are increasing in price. So many poor men, they cannot purchase. Your motorcar machine, that is not meant for the poor man. Poor man requires food grains. There is no water. What you are doing for that? They require bread, food grains. Supply them sufficiently. They'll be happy. Without motorcar they can live. You can live also. But without food grains you cannot live and they cannot live.

Morning Walk -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes, tasteful. (break) By accident, huh? The rascal has said. (train whistle) (break) ...scientist?

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: If by chance everything is taking place, what is the use of science?

Satsvarūpa: They don't say their work is by chance, but ultimately everything is by chance. But they have...

Prabhupāda: That is a very good explanation. (chuckles)

Bhāgavata: Isaac Newton disproved that theory.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Chance. (break)

Hari-śauri: So one man, he did a paper called "Life Has No Meaning."

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? (break)

Satsvarūpa: That means dead.(?) (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Life has no meaning, but the lifeless man's words have meaning.

Satsvarūpa: We have to give life meaning, and that's the glory of man, they say, that he finds the meaning, gives his own meaning to the meaningless. (break)

Prabhupāda: "Life has no meaning," eh?

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: To present your case. Comparative study means impartially make comparison. There is no knowledge of God in there. They're all bogus. You cannot say that. But actually they... What do they know about God? They have simply a vague idea. So what is the use of comparison. Then you have to give your judgment—"It is all bogus." That they will not like to hear. But actually that is the position. What complain? What do they know about God? Simply they have got some idea, the Christianity, Muhammadanism, Hind..., everyone. Even Hinduism, they do not know. Therefore they worship so many demigods and ultimately they make nirākāra. Nobody knows God. This is the, perhaps, first time in the history of the world that we are presenting, "Here is God." Here is God. Nobody presented, neither they know it.

Gargamuni: That's a fact.

Prabhupāda: In India, the Māyāvādīs, they have no idea. "Nirākāra." What is the nonsense, nirākāra? The things are going on, imagination. "You can accept anyone as God." This is going on in India, Hindu religion. They do not know that here is... Kṛṣṇa is God. Only few Vaiṣṇavas, they know what is God. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). Otherwise nobody knows. That is the defect. They do not know God; they do not know what God wants. So where is religion? There is no religion. Bogus. Cheating. They do not know about God, and they do not know what God wants. Then where is the religion? All bogus. They have created something, mano-dharma, mental concoction. Otherwise how they can kill animals, all other religion killing animals. What do they know about God? God... They say, "Supreme father." Eh, and animal has... He's not son. So wherefrom the animal came? If God is supreme father, then He is not father of the animals?

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: Yes. Of all commentaries his is the best, including Rāmānuja and Madhva.

Bhavānanda:

ye yathā māṁ prapadyante
tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham
mama vartmānuvartante
manuṣyāḥ pārtha sarvaśaḥ
(BG 4.11)

"Everyone follows My path in all respects." So even if I worship the demigods, I am worshiping ultimately Bhagavān. Kṛṣṇa says, "Everyone follows my path in all respects."

Prabhupāda: That is not the meaning. The meaning is: "Everyone is searching after Me, but they, unless they come to Me, they will search one after another position." What is the purport?

Bhavānanda: "Everyone is searching for Kṛṣṇa in different aspects of His manifestations. Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is partially realized in His impersonal brahma-jyotir effulgence and as the all-pervading Supersoul dwelling within everything including the particles of atoms. But Kṛṣṇa is only fully realized by His pure devotees. Consequently Kṛṣṇa is the object of everyone's realization and thus anyone and everyone is satisfied according to one's desire to have him. In the transcendental..."

Prabhupāda: Brahman... Brahman is also Kṛṣṇa, and Paramātmā is also Kṛṣṇa. So if one is attached to Brahman, he's also worshiping Kṛṣṇa. That is the meaning.

Satsvarūpa: Or even a demigod.

Prabhupāda: Demigod. Everyone is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. But he's searching after real Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri:

antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ
tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām
devān deva-yajo yānti
mad-bhaktā yānti mām api
(BG 7.23)

"Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but my devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet."

Prabhupāda: That is the...

Bhavānanda: Then how yato mata tato patha, became so strong?

Prabhupāda: This is rascal. Therefore we say they are rascal. Path is one: mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, and they have manufactured this, yato mata tato patha. Mata is one. Food has to be given to the mouth, not to the eyes. You can say, "Here is a hole, here is a hole. Here is a..." Anybody... No. This hole. There are nine holes all over the body. You cannot put food in either of them, only this one. You cannot water every part of the tree. Put water on the root, and everything is satisfied.

Bhavānanda: "I am not qualified to worship Kṛṣṇa, so let me just worship the Mother. She is part of Kṛṣṇa, so let me just worship her..."

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Less intelligent. Yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). You will remain within this material world. That is Mother's kingdom. This external world is controlled by the Mother Durgā. She's in charge of this material world. So if you become a perfect devotee of Mother, you get all good chances in this material world but not eternal life. Within this material world wherever you go everything is limited, either you become Indra or Brahmā, or ant. Just like President Nixon, so long he was President he was doing everything as he liked, and now he's an ordinary man, (indistinct). This is Mother's kingdom. Is that Mr. Nixon the same Nixon when he was President? But same Nixon is he, but the atmosphere and the circumstance is the same? Does he not realize it? "How I was enjoying as President and what is my position. Everyone kicks on my face." Is that very good position? Therefore alpa. Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām (BG 7.23). Antavat tu phalam. This position ultimately will be ended. Therefore less intelligent class are after this, not very intelligent men. What is time?

Hari-śauri: Twenty to eleven. (end)

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Whatever you may have, but you cannot answer the ultimate question. They have got also science, art. A dog can understand that a foreigner is coming, and he begins to bark, "Yow! Yow! Yow!" and the master understands that somebody unknown is coming. You have got that science, that from mile or some, some distant place you can understand that some unknown person is coming. But dog can understand. He has got this art. He is better intelligent than you. Everyone has got some particular. That does not mean there is brain. Brain means to understand the problem of life. That is brain.

Pradyumna: But ultimately our intelligence comes from scripture and Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: No, that... Apart from scripture, logic, argument come. Scripture we take. That is our business. But you answer on common ground. Where is the difference why there is dead man and alive? What is your answer? Set aside scripture.

Ādi-keśava: That, they say, is beyond our intelligence.

Prabhupāda: That means you are not intelligent. That is the proof. "Beyond your intelligence"—that means your intelligence is not yet perfect. You're lacking in brain. (aside:) I see so many workers simply loitering. They are doing nothing. What can be done? So many. Simply they are taking money. Doing nothing. I see. There is nobody to see. They take advantage. Seventy-five percent of the workers, they are doing nothing. But the Gītā explains that within this body there is something. Not body itself is moving, but dehinaḥ asmin dehe. Within this body there is the real power, dehī, who has got this body. That is there. And because he is there, the body is changing. They cannot understand. No brain, exactly like the dogs and cats. The dog cannot understand that "Within my body, I am." They cannot. Therefore you are no better than dogs. And actual fact is you are not this body. You are within this body. It is a dress. In so many ways Bhagavad-gītā teaches, but you have no brain. Then where is brainwashing? You have no brain to understand your real position.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: But calculator machine, another man is working, so where is brain, calculating? The machine is made by another man, and it is being worked by another man, so where is the brain in the calculator? That is... So you are misled immediately. Bluff.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Word jugglery. Simply a word jugglery.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Yes. What is the value of that? The machine is made by another brain, and it is being worked over by another brain. And who has made that brain who has made the machine? That is māyā. Then ultimately you have to come to māyā. And who is giving direction? Big brain, Kṛṣṇa. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). He is making machine—carācaram. Yasyājñayā... Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā (Bs. 5.44). Māyā is Durgā, the superintending deity of this whole, whole universe. And she is Durgā, therefore called. "Very difficult." Duḥ-gā. You can approach her very, with difficulty. Duḥ. Duḥ means duḥkha.. You cannot understand even Durgā, so what to speak of the Supreme Person who is giving directions to this...? Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya... (Bs. 5.44), chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā. She has no independent intelligence. She is working like chāya. Just like here, chāya. This is moving; this is moving.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Shadow.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Shadow. The shadow has no power to move. Chāyeva. How nice example. Although Durgā, the material nature, is so powerful, she is powerful in that way, as much the shadow is powerful. Chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti. Again explained, icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate. "Whatever she is doing, she is doing according to the desire of the Supreme..." Govindam ādi-puruṣam. "O Govinda, You are the Supreme." Everything is there. Everything is explained in Brahma-saṁhitā. Ultimately, govindam ādi-puruṣam.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Generally in the court cases that we've had against our society, they only question our method of preaching. But this is the first case where they are questioning what we are preaching. It's the first time I have seen it. Usually they're simply arguing over "You should distribute books like this or not like this." But now they are questioning what is in the books.

Prabhupāda: Explain. If you can explain Bhagavad-gītā nicely, then his father will understand. Where is that impediment? Ask them that "You are very proud of manufacturing very subtle machine, but can you prepare a machine like this? It is..." What will be the possible answer? If you challenge, then what will be the possible answer?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They avoid the issue. When they don't have an answer, they simply change the subject.

Prabhupāda: So why you allow him to? "Why you change?"

Ādi-keśava: They say you're talking about religion...

Prabhupāda: It is not religion. It is... I'm talking of machine. Religion, you do not know what is religion. That we shall talk later on. First of all come to machine. Religion. What you will know about religion? You are animal. So what you will know? Animal has no religion.

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So struggle for existence. The asuras, they want to live. Mahiṣāsura he's struggling with the weapons of Māyā, Durgā. He'll be failure, but still-ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham (BG 3.27)—by false egotism he's thinking, "I shall conquer over the material..." That is scientist, so-called scientist. Asuras are... They are planning that "We shall do without nature's control." That is mūḍha. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā dura... (BG 7.14). They cannot conquer it. That is not possible. But you are struggling. You do not want the control of nature. And nature is so strong... Now it is raining. Within one hour they can vanquish the whole world. Doesn't take time. If there is one cyclone and heavy rain, then you are put into danger. So long it is mild, it is all right. And as soon as becomes ferocious, then finish you. What you'll control the nature? When there is no rain, you cannot bring in rain; and when there is heavy rain, you cannot stop it. Then where is your control? You rascal, you think like that, "We shall control over nature." This is your rascaldom. You cannot control over. So everything has its use, and how to use it properly, that is all described in the Bhagavad-gītā. And if you take instruction of Kṛṣṇa and ultimately surrender to Him, that is success of life. Otherwise, struggle for existence, survival of the fittest... Nature is fittest. You'll die; nature will be... You are not fit to fight with the nature. That is asura temperament. And that will never be successful. So many asuras came. Formerly there was Hiraṇyakaśipu, Rāvaṇa, Kaṁsa and others. In the recent years there was Hitler, there was Churchill, there was Lenin, and Gandhi and so on, so on. For few days. Then gone: "Get out. Bas. Finished." Big, big scientists, big, big asuras, big, big leaders, what they could do? Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvaiḥ. Where is Bhagavad-gītā? Read from the... Tribhir guṇamayaiḥ. Seventh Chapter.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So let us take advantage of it and make a very perfect institution so that people may take advantage. Otherwise... There is a Bengali song, māyār bośe jāccho bhese', Khāccho hābuḍubu bhāi. Everyone is being washed away by the waves of this material energy. And their attempt to save themselves... That's... Everything is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just like in light, during the rainy season, so many worms and flies, they come and fall in the fire, phat-phat-phat. They do not know. This is the very description, in the Eleventh Chapter. So we do not condemn material life, but without spiritual understanding, this dog race for material comforts, it may be temporary, very nice, but ultimately it is being carried away by the waves of material nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). Let them study Bhagavad-gītā seriously. Let there be serious student to understand, to explain, and everything will be... There must be sadācāra.

Mr. Rajda: Yes, religious principles.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). We are opening gurukula in Vṛndāvana. We can open here also. We have got land, so let us cooperate. The things are there. We haven't got to manufacture it. Simply we have to take the program seriously. Then everything will be all right.

Mr. Rajda: Por how many days you are here in Bombay?

Prabhupāda: At least for one month.

Mr. Rajda: To one month. I am returning on seventh again here. Then I shall come here. Tomorrow I am going for Delhi, but on seventh I am returning. Seventh I will come here again.

Prabhupāda: So you come and let us (indistinct).

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Betiye, sit down.

Indian (1): No, he has come to pay respect to you.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But wait. Let him come in. The point is that if you keep yourself in ignorance, then what is the use of advancing further? If your basic principle is calculated wrong, then whatever you construct on that wrong background, everything is wrong. One mistake done in the beginning, then plus minus, plus minus, ultimately it is wrong. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness means that unless you take seriously what Kṛṣṇa says, you are simply jumping like animals. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. First of all, you understand your position, what Kṛṣṇa says. Then go ahead. You do not understand the basic principle what Kṛṣṇa says and you are declaring yourself, "I am reading Bhagavad-gītā and Bhagavad-gītā is my life," and so on.

Mr. Koshi: Would you say that this is a return to this Bhagavad-gītā?

Prabhupāda: Yes. This culture is purely Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore we have given the name "Kṛṣṇa consciousness." What Kṛṣṇa said, take it.

Mr. Koshi: Is it somewhat similar to the... (break)

Room Conversation -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. So their vote, their adoration, what is the value? By whose adoration you have become big? Some monkeys and some fools, some rascals, some dogs. And formerly it was the king should be approved by saintly brāhmaṇas.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. And when the brāhmaṇas did not approve, they had the power of brahma-tejaḥ. Just like with Veṇa. Even in our own society, if someone is not doing nicely, then the others may, they come together and they say, "This person is not keeping standard." It is not that because I have power or something, one can maintain his position.

Prabhupāda: Whole thing is spoiled, vitiated. And ultimately this human form of life, it is a chance given by nature. Tathā dehāntara, you become a dog, next. Finished. And you wait millions of years again to come, take the human form. What can I do? These are nature's law. And they are also prepared. "Oh, what is the wrong there, if I become dog?" This civilization. Just imagine how much spoiled it is.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If that's a fact, then let them become a dog now.

Prabhupāda: They are already dogs; otherwise how he is becoming dog? They have been already described. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ. They are already... Therefore they are going to change it, the body. They are already cats and dogs. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante (BG 8.6). A doggish mentality, you will get a dog's body, infections. It is clear, nature's law.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This vision no one else has except... I mean no one else has it, Śrīla Prabhupāda except for you. It is there in the śāstra, but I don't think anyone else has realized it. There may be many other Vaiṣṇava ācāryas or something in India, but they are not... By the fact that they are not preaching, it means they have not realized it.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Formerly India was very advanced in devotion.

Mr. Dwivedi: And just near there is moving door, shutting door. It has got nine pillars. If you just push one pillar, the entire structure shifts. And the pity is the archaeological department of government of India has taken no care about this. We had some good statue of Buddha and Mahāvīra and... Two, three were stolen away. We collected at our own institution. Then ultimately I wrote to government. I said, "Already some statue have been stolen away. You kindly left it wherever you like. We can't protect them from thieves." Just three months back. Then they took away another three statue, one of Viṣṇu, one of Buddha, another of Mahāvīra.

Prabhupāda: Stone?

Mr. Dwivedi: One big, one were stolen. Three... I asked government. I asked them three times. Government has not yet taken them away from there. Otherwise we had collected it at our own headquarters and institute.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Deity of Kṛṣṇa?

Mr. Dwivedi: Pardon?

Prabhupāda: No, Buddha.

Mr. Dwivedi: Buddha. And Viṣṇu.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Viṣṇu?

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: This is the normal condition, that he fully surrenders and acts according to the dictation of Kṛṣṇa. This is surrender. He says also, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65)—four things. It doesn't require any... It is very easy. If you like, you can think of Kṛṣṇa always-man-manāḥ. And unless you love Kṛṣṇa, how you'll think of Him? Mad-bhaktaḥ. And bhakta will worship-mad-yājī. And worshiping means offering obeisances-māṁ namaskuru. These four things can do, any... Even a child can do. But they'll manufacture and ultimately come to the conclusion-void, finished. So our request is that life is not zero. It is a fact. Don't spoil it. Take His instruction from Bhagavad-gītā and become perfect. This is our request. And we have no difficulty. The authority is there, Bhagavad-gītā. We haven't got to manufacture anything, some artificial rules. The standard of knowledge is there. What is the difficulty? Why should you manufacture knowledge? They are imperfect. Whatever you manufacture, that is imperfect.

Indian man (1): There is no difficulty.

Prabhupāda: So take the perfect knowledge. Follow it. You become perfect. Perfection means... That is also stated in Bhagavad-gītā. Real misery is that I am eternal... As God is eternal, I am also eternal. So now I am subjected to birth, death, old age, and disease, due to the physical body. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam: (BG 13.9) "You are trying to mitigate all kinds of sufferings. So why don't you see the real suffering is here, janma." How to stop this repetition of birth—that is your real problem. But they have made problems, so-called politics, philanthropy, altruism, humanitarianism, this, that, that, so many. But real problem remains, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. This is the defect. They won't take what is the problem, how to solve it. Everything is in oblivion, ignorance. What can be done? Although there is knowledge, there is light, there is practical example, they won't take it. What can be done? So we shall request you all, please don't waste your time in this way, that way, and ultimately come to the conclusion, zero. Take instruction of Bhagavad-gītā in all regards and be happy. It is not difficult. Practical examples are there. Before me, ten years before, whole world, foreigners, there was not a single Kṛṣṇa conscious. Whole history. Now you'll find thousands. Why? I have not manufactured (indistinct), giving them. I have given them Kṛṣṇa. That's all.

Evening Darsana -- May 15, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: "I am sādhu. I am the leader of the, this society. And the animal-killing is going on. I don't care for it." Suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānām. So titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ suhṛdaḥ sarva... These are the qualities. And ultimately, summary, sādhu is spoken by Kṛṣṇa Himself that bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ: (BG 9.30) "One who has no other business than to execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is sādhu." "Well, he is a foreigner. He is not brāhmaṇa. He is accustomed to so many habits." Sādhu is always in good habit. But due to past practice, sometimes we may see some discrepancy. You can find out some fault. But Kṛṣṇa says that "Never mind there is some fault. Still, he is sādhu." "Why?" Now bhajate mām ananya-bhāk: "He has taken Me as everything." So sādhu descriptions are there. Sādhavaḥ sādhu-bhūṣaṇaḥ. A sādhu means ultimately bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. So tīrtha-sthāna, one should try to associate with sādhus. This is the purpose to go to the tīrtha-sthāna. Otherwise, if you simply go to the tīrtha-sthāna and take bath in the Ganges and Yamunā, and if you think, "My business is finished..." Everywhere, all tīrtha-sthāna... In Gayā-actually, begins from Gayā—there is Phalgu River. Then Benares, there is Ganges. Then there is Prayāga. There is also Ganges, Yamunā. Then go to Mathurā, Vṛndāvana. Everywhere there is the sacred river. So if we simply think that going to the holy place and taking bath... In Kali-yuga it is general hobby. Dūre parjakanam(?) tīrtham. In Calcutta there is Ganges, but...

Indian man (1): They will come here.

Prabhupāda: They will come here.

Evening Darsana -- May 15, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Artificial. Cyavanti te. There is one verse. They'll fall down. What is the purport?

Pradyumna: "The group of transcendentalists who follow the path of the inconceivable, unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme Lord engaged in devotional service of the Lord are called (sic:) bhakta-yogīs. Now, here the difference between jñāna-yoga and bhakti-yoga is definitely expressed. The process of jñāna-yoga, although ultimately bringing one to the same goal, is very troublesome, whereas the path of bhakti-yoga, the process of being in direct service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is easier and is natural for the embodied soul. The individual soul is embodied since time immemorial. It is very difficult for him to simply theoretically understand that he is not the body. Therefore the bhakti-yogī accepts the Deity of Kṛṣṇa as worshipable because there is some bodily conception fixed in the mind which can thus be applied. Of course, worship of the Supreme Personality of Godhead in His form within the temple is not idol worship. There is evidence in the Vedic literature that worship may be saguṇa or nirguṇa, of the Supreme possessing or not possessing attributes. Worship of the Deity in the temple is saguṇa worship, for the Lord is represented by material qualities. But the form of the Lord, though represented by material qualities such as stone, wood, or oil paint, is not actually material. That is the absolute nature of the Supreme Lord. A crude example may be given here. We may find some mail boxes on the street, and if we post our letters in those boxes, they will naturally will go to their destination without difficulty. But any old box or an imitation which we may find somewhere, which is not authorized by the post office, will not do the work.

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What about the Muhammadans?

Jayapatākā: The Muhammadans... At one place the Muhammadan who heard my lecture in Dacca, he came and approached me and said that "What you are preaching," he said, "this is very applicable for the modern day and..." He lives in Mymensingh. He said "In Mymensingh there is really a majority of Hindu, and they have their sādhu-saṅga and priests there, but it's very, very old-fashioned, and we find it very unacceptable, but what you are saying we find very enthusing." So he arranged the program for me at Mymensingh, the Muhammadan. And every Muhammadan I met, discussed with, ultimately they became interested, just because it was represented in a way acceptable to them. They say, "You are Hindu?" I say, "No, we are Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava means we believe in only one Supreme God, and He has got no equal and no second." "So you...? We believe in the same."

Prabhupāda: There is a... Asamaurdhva. There cannot be anyone equal to God or greater than God. Then He is God.

Jayapatākā: Many young men, both Hindu and Muhammadan, will join, I'm quite sure. Right now we're getting the society registered and getting a place. Before we actually...

Prabhupāda: So did you not get? Finish that. Get the place and society registered.

Jayapatākā: Well, I was there with Prabhaviṣṇu, and he joined me after ten days, and I instructed him what to do, everything. Then I was called back to Māyāpur. But there'll be no difficulty. I can go any time within a week. The Bengal government is giving me re-entry visa, so I can go and come back without difficulty.

Prabhupāda: Do this seriously.

Morning Talk -- June 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Śatadhanya: Actually when we see it from that point of view, the scientists have given nothing beneficial.

Prabhupāda: Ultimately the our troubles are janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). And they do not know, science. They cannot solve.

Śatadhanya: When we say that, they say, "No one can solve them."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śatadhanya: They say, "That is pie-in-the-sky."

Prabhupāda: You say. We don't say. Because you cannot do, you say. We are cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness for this purpose. We are not wasting time. And we are wasting time doing so? We are fools? That is the first instruction, that soul is immortal and unchanging. This very instruction they cannot understand. That is first instruction. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). This simple... A child changes body. That is beginning. There is no... Same child. For a while it may be. Now he's grown up, young man. It is not change of body? Why these rascals cannot understand? What is that improvement of...? Therefore I have said, "You have no brain." It is a fact. My son, he's now young man. He took birth as a small child. Where is that body? Body has changed. Common thing. But these rascals, so fool, they cannot understand. I have become old man, but if some elderly persons, my guardians, were alive, he knew it, "He has become old man, but he was born a small child." That we have given in pictures, change of body. Change of body is going on. Why these rascals cannot understand? What is their intelligence? Therefore the real problem is the change of body should be stopped. And that is real scientific advancement. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Stop change of the body. We are trying to follow this culture. They say, "It is impossible." So what is their knowledge of? Why the scientists cannot at least stop change of body? Young man... When I was young man, sir, stout and strong, then people came here.

Room Conversation with Alice Coltrane -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I didn't spell yaḥ properly. I spelled it y-a.

yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya
vartate kāma-kārataḥ
na sa siddhim avāpnoti
na sukhaṁ na parāṁ gatim
(BG 16.23)

Translation: "But he who discards scriptural injunctions and acts according to his own whims attains neither perfection nor happiness nor the supreme destination." Purport: "As described before, the śāstra-vidhim, or the direction of the śāstra, is given to the different castes and orders of human society. Everyone is expected to follow these rules and regulations. If one does not follow them and acts whimsically according to his lust, greed and desire, then he never will be perfect in his life. In other words, a man may theoretically know all these things, but if he does not apply them in his own life, then he is to be known as the lowest of mankind. In the human form of life, a living entity is expected to be sane and to follow the regulations given for elevating his life to the highest platform, but if he does not follow them, then he degrades himself. But even if he follows the rules and regulations and moral principles and ultimately does not come to the stage of understanding the Supreme Lord, then all his knowledge becomes spoiled. Therefore one should gradually raise himself to the platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and devotional service; it is then and there that he can attain the highest perfectional stage, not otherwise.

The word kāma-cārataḥ is very significant. A person who knowingly violates the rules acts in lust. He knows that this is forbidden, still he acts. This is called acting whimsically. He knows that this should be done, but still he does not do it; therefore he is called whimsical. Such persons are destined to be condemned by the Supreme Lord. Such persons cannot have the perfection which is meant for the human life. The human life is especially meant for purifying one's existence, and one who does not follow the rules and regulations cannot purify himself, nor can he attain the real stage of happiness".

Prabhupāda: So you do that. Read carefully and execute that. Then you'll be perfect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you have any questions?

Alice Coltrane: (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She's been invited to chant at Ratha-yātrā because there are so many followers of hers throughout the country, so she wonders if there's anything, any special instruction you have.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They are so careful.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One boy brought it to another boy who brought it to another boy, and he brings it here. So I said, "Where is it from?" because if it's from Seth Visanchand we can take it that it's a good chance it's pure. So I want to know who has sent it originally.

Prabhupāda: That is the difficulty here. I say. You say. Another rascal, he says. Another rascal, another... Ultimately it is done by grace. Rather, what can I do? It is very difficult. He did not hear what I am saying. "Will o' the wisp." Without understanding, "garagara," run off. Bas. Foolishness. What is written there, in the bottle?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Absolutely nothing. It's just a bottle with water in it.

Prabhupāda: And where is that eye washing?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Eye wash? It's behind you.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We brought the eye wash.

Prabhupāda: You have got it?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Upendra didn't show you?

Prabhupāda: No.

Room Conversation -- October 12, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He is qualified man.

Kīrtanānanda: He's qualified. He's your friend. He's very understanding. But, of course, putting ourselves under his care means we have to follow his instruction.

Prabhupāda: He instructed hospitalization.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, hospitalization.

Kīrtanānanda: Ultimately, whatever he says we have to do if we're going to accept him. But he's also very understanding, and I think in your condition there may be no need for hospitalization. We need to get some regular care established. There was to be a regimen for recovery.

Prabhupāda: No, that I have already explained. I don't want to go to hospital.

Kīrtanānanda: So that is not necessary. (Prabhupāda coughs heavily) (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatākā Mahārāja has come from Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: Come here. (heavy coughing) Mucus is generating, either you take milk or fruit juice. I have given my opinion in that correspondence. And he's a qualified man. If you want him, then somebody may go to him and talk.

Kīrtanānanda: Yes, that should be done. We'll do that today.

Prabhupāda: He wanted to retire and start a clinic here.

Kīrtanānanda: So he can come now.

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: In the horoscope we have dragged the life through so many catastrophes, but ultimately how long the life we have dragged?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: As far as I recall... The horoscope is written in such a way that if you survive these catastrophes, then it mentions that... He said that you would live for another five or six years.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, there are different horoscopes. One... I can show you that some of them say that you will live for more than five or six years. One of them said you could live up to one hundred.

Prabhupāda: So there is no...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That is not standard.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, according to this man, your life should have been over at the age of seventy-five. In other words, when someone is a pure devotee, then he is not conditioned by the laws of birth and death. For people who are conditioned, there is standard. But in your case they cannot... They admit openly that there's no question of material standard. They can simply tell you... According to your birthday they can predict which days will be difficult for you because of the position of the planets. But so far as your ability to conquer over these difficulties and to live, that they completely accept is completely within Kṛṣṇa's hands, that you're not bounded by the material energy.

Prabhupāda: Karmāṇi nirdahati.

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, who?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: M.M. De. So in my letter to him I explained to him... I enclosed a copy of the conveyance draft, and I requested him that as far as I was concerned, the draft was all right, but that he should check up with some of the other flat owners. If they executed a similar conveyance, please inform me, and then we will do as they have done. I also told him that whatever taxes or other things which he pays should be paid in your name, and receipts should be gotten in your name, and copies of the receipts he can please send me for my records. And I also wrote to him that regarding the permanent electricity supply, if the four of them together pay half of the amount, then as soon as they send me the receipt, then I will send a check for the other half. Those were the points I wrote in the letter to him. What I'm going to do is, as soon as I get this amendment done which mentions about the misspending, not to misspend the money-squandering clause—then I will send a copy of that along with a letter, explaining to them how each one of them will be getting Rs. 250, and then after seven years, you know, the bigger amount. And then I will send them a copy of that squandering clause with that, saying, "But you should not squander this money. It must be invested in fixed deposits or government bonds. Otherwise your monthly pension will be stopped and it will be given to Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity." I'm only going to do that after I get the amendment clause finished. So like that, everything was done, and I finished all of that business today. Also I wrote a letter to Dr. Ghosh, telling him that whatever money he advances we will match, again repeating our offer that we have two rooms ready. And I also mentioned to him how... He mentioned how he was a little disappointed with his discussions. I said that is not so surprising, because our Gurukula is ultimately meant for spiritual education, not otherwise, and we're only going to give a little basic hygiene teaching. I said, "Mainly now you should take up this dispensary. We are very eager for that." And again I invited him to come here soon. And I gave him a report of your health. And I also sent a letter to Bank of America in Los Angeles for transferring six hundred dollars to Prabhaviṣṇu in Nepal, because each month we have to give him that money so he can stay there and work there nicely. And then I did some other letters to Punjab Bank in Delhi to the head office, telling them that the interest... For now the interest from those fixed deposits we'll have credited to your account here. And once we have the first meeting of the Bhaktivedanta Charity Trust..., Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust, we'll open a bank account, probably in Māyāpur or Swarup Ganj.

Prabhupāda: Why not open the Charity Trust account in Delhi?

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, if we have program to go to Māyāpur, he has got that distilled medicine in his dispensary.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but one thing is this: the more time we can gain in waiting here, the better. In other words, he's not going to stay here indefinitely. That's a fact. He's going to have to go within the next few days.

Adri-dhāraṇa: He's planning to leave tomorrow. But we can hold him off for two more days.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can hold him because, no doubt about it, the few extra days we gain will give you a little added strength. The main thing is that you should be feeling some positive effect from his treatments, because ultimately that is the real deciding factor. Our opinion of him.... He may be very nice looking, but if the medicine works, that is what counts.

Bhavānanda: Of course, we don't know, but we're all feeling that you're feeling some effect. You told me the other night.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It should be tangibly felt. It should be some actual, tangible result. You should have more strength, sitting up on your own or something of this kind. Then I'll believe that you're actually feeling better, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Because otherwise, psychologically, one may feel himself better, but then that should manifest in being able to sit up or something of that kind, turn around in bed on one's own.

Prabhupāda: Do you think I am able to do that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I'm encouraging you. I don't know if you can do it.

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: Now I cannot sit up independently.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Then make this arrangement, one week or ten days.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We are doing that. We have already agreed to that. Actually I could see from the very beginning that that's what we're going to do, but sometimes I feel it is my duty to give good arguments for some opposite opinion just to see both sides. Ultimately we are prepared to be with you wherever you want to be. To us that is home. That is our great pleasure, to be with you. So we're making that arrangement, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break) (offers obeisances) Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Do you think that without finishing this business we shall go?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Without finishing the business of these, this legal business? Oh, yes, this legal business is not what would keep us here.

Prabhupāda: Then how it will... How it will be done?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I mean it can be executed in Māyāpur as well.

Prabhupāda: How?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mr. Das, our friend from Calcutta, can come. It's pretty much now... It's already drafted, and... It would just have to be redrafted again on new stamp paper or the words would have to be changed. It would have to be retyped on stamp paper from Bengal side. The basic writing is...

Prabhupāda: That means unfinished despite unfinished.

Room Conversation -- November 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What aim? Low-class men.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Their entire outlook is an economic one. They have no... They don't feel that there's any importance to culture or any of the finer sentiments except that they may further the economic consideration. Politically also, their political understanding is also ultimately directed for economics. Any of their political dealings with other countries are all ultimately to establish this economic Communism.

Prabhupāda: How human society is falling down.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: From the definition given in the Vedas, they don't classify as human beings.

Prabhupāda: Don't try for China.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You had said that before a few times also. They are completely restricted in every respect. Whereas in other..., East European countries and in Russia, the professors may read various types of literature, in China they're not allowed to do that. And if they are ever caught doing that, they immediately are sentenced to prison and they lose everything. The difference in China as opposed to Russia is that in China every few years all the professors are made to be farmers. And also the workers in the factories and the farmers are the predominate controllers of the universities. They are not at all interested in culture or in higher education. Their whole purpose even for the universities is to train up loyal Chinese citizens. Everything is for that end. So no cultural interest would ever be tolerated on the part of the authorities there. And the people are so much controlled by these authorities that they would lose everything.

Room Conversation -- November 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Jayapatāka: I'll be back to say that you defy all medical laws. Sometimes you become very weak and sometimes you become immediately strong. (pause)

Girirāja: I think this is a good idea.

Prabhupāda: Who is this?

Devotee: Girirāja.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Girirāja: Because, I mean, I don't have any faith in the doctors or their treatments because they're never working and ultimately it depends on Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa is everywhere. He can exercise His will in any condition and you know, as you say, that if you go out and if you recover then it's very good. And even otherwise, I mean if that is the decision of Lord Kṛṣṇa, then this is a very glorious way. (pause)

Prabhupāda: All seriously consider this submission and let me go. (end)

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Kuvera?

Bhakti-caru: Shastriji is telling Prabhupāda to ask the Kuvera's puṣpaka-ratha. That is airplane of Kuvera. And do the parikrama in that. Then there won't be any pumping in that way. And he's saying that if Prabhupāda asks for that, he will sure get it. (devotees chuckle)

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ultimately what Prabhupāda decides, we will do.

Haṁsadūta: Well, it just...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, but it goes on. As Prabhupāda goes on, his disciples also go on.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: Shastriji's saying, Mahārāja... Shastriji's saying that Prabhupāda shouldn't talk too much. It's bad for his heart.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we can have kīrtana until Kṛṣṇa dāsa comes. Okay. (kīrtana) Lokanātha is here, over there, Śrīla...

Prabhupāda: So? Where did you go?

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So? Where did you go?

Lokanātha: I went to Mathurā. I went first to Vṛndāvana and looked for the carts. They were not very good kind. They were made for rough loads. So I went to Mathurā and spoke to one farmer. He had a fairly big size cart and two strong bullocks, and he asked for a hundred rupees. He wouldn't come down. So ultimately I agreed for a hundred rupees. And he will reach tonight at eleven o'clock. I asked him to start immediately, but they have pūjā—as we have go-pūjā, they also have oxen pūjā today—so he will only reach at eleven o'clock, and he will be with us all day long tomorrow. I had to give him one day or maximum...

Prabhupāda: So what do you think?

Lokanātha: Of what?

Prabhupāda: How many carts you have?

Lokanātha: I got just one today, one for you, and those who serve you, they could also sit besides you in the cart, and the rest could do kīrtana around the bullock cart, and the whole unit, bullock cart and saṅkīrtana group, will move together.

Prabhupāda: So what we have to pay?

Lokanātha: We'll pay hundred rupees, one day. Of course, you want to have it for all the time. Best thing is to purchase a set of bullocks, two bullocks, and a cart.

Prabhupāda: You have got experience.

Room Conversation -- November 13-14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's sort of encouraging to see you taking milk. That's encouraging. That's something which you said if you could take, you would get stronger, so I'm encouraged by that. I think that a great deal of patience is ultimately required. We have to expect that actual strength and muscles will take a little time to come. (background conversation) (Hindi conversation)

Bhakti-caru: No, that will go away. (Hindi conversation)

Prabhupāda: They are taking urine?

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali)

Upendra: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you didn't pass any urine the first time. Do you want to try again? We can cleanse you now?

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) (Bengali conversation with Bon Mahārāja)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is a certificate arrived from the Soviet Union.

Bon Mahārāja: It's in Russian language or in English?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, some of it, I think, is in Russian. I have the translation. It says, the top wording here, this says that "Books in the service of peace and progress. A diploma for the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, Bombay, given by the First Moscow International Book Fair Exhibitions and Fairs, General Directorate of International Book Exhibitions and Fairs, USSR." (Bengali conversation)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: All Russian universities ordered Prabhupāda's books. (Bengali)

Page Title:Ultimately (Conversations 1976 - 1977)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:22 of Nov, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=100, Let=0
No. of Quotes:100