Ultimately (Conversations 1974 - 1975)

Expressions researched:
"ultimately"

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 5, 1974, Los Angeles:

Bali Mardana: They're like owls.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause)

Bali Mardana: There's a river. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...duḥkha-nivṛtti. Ultimately, stop of all sufferings. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Simply ānanda. Dancing with Kṛṣṇa, rāsa dance. Supposing if there is such life—dancing and eating and chanting, no suffering. So would anybody deny that? Is there any such fool?

Bali Mardana: Yeah, they're all denying.

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Bali Mardana: They deny. Just like the Puritans...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Deny... You deny or accept, that is the... Suppose there is such life where you can simply dance, eat and live eternally, happy life. Would you not like to accept it?

Devotee (2): Yes, of course, anyone would.

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Devotee (2): Anyone would like to accept that.

Prabhupāda: You see? That we are giving.

Morning Walk -- January 10, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Why shall I take from Kṛṣṇa? You should give.

Candanācārya: No, I mean. Instead of praying to demigods to give me something, saying, "Whatever you decide Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. No. A devotee never prays to Kṛṣṇa. They have to undergo so much trouble; still they never pray to Kṛṣṇa. They know that "Kṛṣṇa will give us ultimately protection. Let us do our duty." Tat te 'nukampāṁ susamīkṣamāṇaḥ (SB 10.14.8). When a devotee is in difficulty, he is not disturbed. He thinks, It is Kṛṣṇa's wish that I should suffer like like this. It is not suffering; it is my pleasure." Just like when a patient is undergoing surgical operation, there is pain, but he knows, "It is better for me." Therefore agrees, "Yes sir. You go on with your knife." So when you are surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa says that "I shall give you protection," so even in our distressed condition we must know that we are being protected by Kṛṣṇa. We should not be disturbed. Because we create so-called distress and happiness. Actually this world is distress. Here the so-called happiness is also distress. So why a devotee should be disturbed by distressed condition? Harer nāma harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). (break)

Candanācārya: One time you said that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not difficult, but to remain determined, that is difficult. Determination is difficult.

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This is the position. "You wanted to become a sera. All right, you become a sera. Jump over some animal and immediately suck his blood." All facility is—the nails, the teeth-given. But is he happy? But everyone thinking that "If I could become like this, I would have been happy." So Kṛṣṇa gives all chance. "All right, you become this." This is transmigration. This is transmigration. (break) ...yathāndhair upa... We are thinking something like that, and Kṛṣṇa is giving us chance, "All right, you take this chance; you become like this." Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante (BG 4.11). But it will not make you happy. Therefore ultimately says, sarva-dharmān. "You give up all this rascaldom. What I speak, you can accept. That is your dharma." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam... (BG 18.66). That will be beneficial for you, the most confidential instruction. There is that story that one old woman, she was suffering. And she had to collect woods from the forest and sell in the market. So one day, how do you say, she was praying to Kṛṣṇa, or God, that "Kindly help me. I am in very poverty-stricken." So one day, she was carrying that load of fuel. It fell down. So nobody was there to help him. So she began to cry, "Who will help me?" So she began to pray to God "Kindly help me." And God came: "What do you want?" "Who are you, Sir?" "I am God." "Kindly help me to take this burden on my head." Yes. "All right." From God, she's asking, "Please help me to get this burden on my head." That's all. So everyone is going on, "Let family be very happy, my son be married. He may... Let him pass MA examination." But it is the same thing, "Give me the burden on my head." This is the prayer. Mūḍhāḥ. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). The life was meant for understanding Kṛṣṇa and worship Him, and he's asking, "Give me the burden on my head." Therefore mūḍha, rascal, fool. He's asking something which will never make him happy, even by merging into the effulgence, Brahman effulgence. It will never make him happy. But he does not know. Therefore he's mūḍha, rascal.

Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: We say approaching Kṛṣṇa, the Absolute. We have got Kṛṣṇa's form, we have Kṛṣṇa's name, we have personal address, His pastime. Just like you know me, I know you, means I have got form, you have got form, I know your qualities, you know my qualities; therefore we know each other. But if the approach is void, then how the approach is the same? There must be something tangible; then the approach is the same.

Guest: Well, I know your philosophy, cause I was very intimately involved with it, but I still believe that if, uh, your uh, you may have a different style, and you may call it Kṛṣṇa consciousness or you may call it nirvāṇa, but I think that ultimately it's, uh...

Prabhupāda: I can, I can explain Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but you cannot explain nirvāṇa. That is the difficulty. I can explain my position but you cannot explain your position.

Guest: How is it that I cannot explain my position?

Prabhupāda: Then explain what do you mean by nirvāṇa.

Guest: Well it's the ultimate state of consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Where is nirvāṇa when you do not know the meaning of nirvāṇa? Nirvāṇa means finished.

Guest: Uh, yes. I think that...

Prabhupāda: Nirvāṇa means everything finished, void.

Guest: Etymologically it means "no wind."

Morning Walk -- March 24, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No. They'll never be satisfied. Kāmādi... But this service is service to my kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, mātsarya. I am giving service to my wife because she satisfies me by sense gratification. Therefore I'm not giving service to my wife, but I'm giving service to my senses. So ultimately, we are servant of the senses. We are nobody's servants. This is our material position. Yes. Ultimately, we are servant of our senses.

Guest (1): Or we are the servant of our ego.

Prabhupāda: So the position is constitutionally I am servant, but at the present moment, being conditioned by the material nature, I am giving service to my senses. Hare Kṛṣṇa. But if I give service to the master of the senses, Hṛṣīkeśa... Because senses, they are not independent. They are also dependent. Suppose I am now moving my hands, but if the master of my hand, Kṛṣṇa, paralyzes it, no more moving. Neither I can renovate the moving capacity of my hand. Therefore I am not master. Although I am claiming I am master of my hand, master of my leg, but actually I am not. The master is different. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's another name is Hṛṣīkeśa, master of the senses. Therefore the service should be transferred. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate (CC Madhya 19.170). We have engaged our senses for different purposes, but when we engage our senses for the service of the master of the senses, that is called bhakti. Bhakti is also service, but it is not service to the senses, but it is service to the master of the senses. This is bhakti. So constitutionally I am servant. I cannot become master. I have to serve. So if I don't serve the master of the senses, then I will have to serve the senses. This is our position.

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So you take the essence of all philosophies, Bhagavad-gītā.

Guest (1): Extract of every śāstra is Bhagavad-gītā.

Chandobhai: Not only that, you must speak your own philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Chandobhai: Ultimately, the goal is one, you see.

Dr. Patel: How you explain

ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākham

aśvatthaṁ prāhur avyayam

chandāṁsi yasya parṇāni

yas taṁ veda sa veda-vit

(BG 15.1)

Prabhupāda: Ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākham. Have you got any experience, ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākham? Have you got any experience? The root is upside and the branches and the twigs downside.

Dr. Patel: In the shadow in the pond.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 29, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda:

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

māyayāpahṛta-jñānā

āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

(BG 7.15)

Because they've taken to this asuric principle, they do not surrender. This is the disease, material disease. Here is Kṛṣṇa, the perfect leader, and they're going this side, that leader, that leader, that leader. Why? The perfect leader is there, His instruction is there, in all fields of life, any field of life. And ultimately spiritual realization. But they will not take it. They'll not take. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Where is your book? You can read.

Indian man (3): Oh, he forgot, and I brought another book. I brought that Siksha-vadri.

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Indian man (3): There is the name of Kṛṣṇa in every page. I told you the other day. It's a quota paṇḍita for all Vaiṣṇavas.

Prabhupāda: Read something.

Indian man (3): I'll read the beginning, and then from the middle. (reads ślokas) That is the beginning, and how it goes, then...

Prabhupāda: So why did that person say that Janardan Swami Narayan is the topmost?

Indian man (2): (Hindi)

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Astadhā, that's the lower prakṛti of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, so now the study, first study, begins from material point of view: Wherefrom the sky came? How the sky came into existence? First of all sky. Then, from sky, there is sound. Then, from sound there is air. From air, there is... Along with these creations... the sky creation means the air creation also, the reception of the sound. So in this way it is all described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam very nicely, how creation took place. Then, ultimately, we come to the land, where all the qualities of other elements are there. There is sound. There is touch. There is vision. There is smell. Everything is there. So... And the subtle matters. Mind, citta, intelligence, then buddh... intelligence. Then false ego. This is... At the present moment, everyone is thinking in the bodily concept of life: "I am American." "I am Indian." "I am brāhmaṇa." "I am kṣatriya." This is false ego. He's not, neither of them. Because he's spirit soul, a different identity. So these, how the subtle mind, intelligence, are working, one should know. How transmigration of the soul takes place? By the action of mind, intelligence and ego. They do not know. There is no such science. There are so many universities all over the world. But who is studying all these things? The psychologists, they have studied a little more about thinking, feeling and willing. That's all. But they do not know how he is working, how he is carrying the subtle soul to other body. That they do not know.

Mr. Sar: Apareyam itas tu...

Guest (2): Why do you not explain that?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest (2): Why do you not explain that about subtle being carried forward?

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Vyāsa. Ultimately Vyāsa.

Dr. Patel: "Even You say so." Svayam eva.

Prabhupāda: "And You also say."

Dr. Patel: Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava, na hi te bhagavān vyaktiṁ... (BG 10.14).

Prabhupāda: Now, this is understanding of Bhagavad-gītā, that "Whatever you say, I accept as truth." Not that "This portion..." Interpretation: "This portion I don't like. This portion is nice." No. Everything is nice. Whatever Kṛṣṇa says, everything is correct. That is understanding.

Dr. Patel:

sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye

yan māṁ vadasi keśava

na hi te bhagavān vyaktiṁ

vidur devā na dānavāḥ

(BG 10.14)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Vyaktim means?

Prabhupāda: Vyaktim means his personality, personality, vyaktim.

Dr. Patel: "Nobody knows Your personality in truth."

Prabhupāda: So foolish people cannot understand what is the Personality of Kṛṣṇa. Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They worship Viṣṇu. They worship Viṣṇu.

Indian man (2): They worship Viṣṇu but their prime deity is Śaṅkara, and not...

Prabhupāda: No, no. They worship five mūrtis. So they give equal im... Because Śiva is also not ultimate. Śaṅkarācārya's thesis is "Ultimately, the Absolute Truth is nirākāra." Not even Śiva. Therefore, either Śiva or Viṣṇu or Gaṇeśa, the same thing, same thing. They are not sticking with the Śiva form. They worship Viṣṇu form, also Gaṇeśa, as it is recommended in that book. (break) The difference is there. That difference is there. But we have to take which is correct.

Indian man (2): According to their realizations, you see.

Prabhupāda: No, no. We have to take which is correct.

Indian man (2): Who can take... You see, I... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...if you know which ācārya is correct.

Indian man (2): Oh which ācārya. So if your conscience... (break)

Prabhupāda: Ācārya means one. Ācārya... Just like Vedavyasa. Vedavyasa. (Indian man talking in background) (break) Now, then you must know what is God. That is God.

Indian man (2): So why talk about ācāryas and why discuss these things?

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, I have got experience. In our Calcutta house, there was ghost. In Lucknow when I started that laboratory in Mr. Bhattacarya's house in Vat-nagara(?), there was a ghost. I have practical experience. My servant...

Indian man (1): I have heard a few cases. You see. I was reported that they see in that house there was ghost, and he used to put clothes to fire and they have to run for water to extinguish it. Then I went and examined. He was a friend of mine. Then I ultimately detected that his own wife got hysterical and used to do all those things.

Prabhupāda: No, that is also possible. But...

Indian man (1): You see? So I discovered that there is no ghost, and I explained to them...

Prabhupāda: No, that is also possible. Sometimes we are misled. But ghosts, in every country, there are so many books, and especially it is mentioned in the Vedic literature also. Bhūta-preta-yoni. Bhūta-preta-yoni. That is described. Out of many forms of life, these bhūta-preta-yonis is also. Nana-yoni. Nana-yoni. There are different sources of birth. So bhūta-preta-yoni is also mentioned there, species of life. (break) Bhūta-preta is mentioned.

Indian Man (2): Kṛṣṇa says, bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā. (break)

Room Conversation -- May 20, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Gurudāsa: You can't eat money.

Prabhupāda: Ultimately that is the... (break) ...somehow or other, but it must be properly utilized. Who will give me massage?

Devotee (2): Oh, Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: So ask him. (break) ...money.

Gurudāsa: My point of..., you can't eat money means that if it is in the bank earning interest...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Gurudāsa: My point was if it is in the bank earning interest, we may die at any moment, so what is the point of in the bank? But if we have some land and utilizing it, it is a better investment.

Prabhupāda: First you purchase, then we shall make program. For the time being, purchase. Actually that is money.

Gurudāsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: When you sow it, it will bring more money. There will be no problem.

Gurudāsa: In the old system, land and jewelry was riches.

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Absolute has no internal or external. That is Absolute. If there is internal and external, it is not Absolute.

O'Grady: I don't mean in time, and I don't mean in space. I mean in time in the sense that one is born and one dies, etc., that is, in one's own time, one's own Absolute, ultimately the Absolute that one finds for oneself.

Prabhupāda: No, we are not absolute. We, when we are situated in the absolute platform, then we are absolute. Now we are in the relative world. Here there is absolutism, but the sense is not so elevated to understand the absolutism. So so long we are under the control of time, there is no question of becoming absolute.

O'Grady: So therefore there is a life beyond time.

Prabhupāda: That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.

janma karma me divyaṁ

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti kaunteya

(BG 4.9)

Find out this verse.

Nitāi: Chapter Four, text nine:

janma karma ca me divyam

evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mam eti so 'rjuna

(BG 4.9)

"One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna."

Prabhupāda: And that is absolute. When he goes back to home, back to Godhead, that is absolute. So long he is in the material world, changing body, transmigrating from one body to another, that is not absolute plane. That is the duality plane, dualism. When we go back to home, back to..., in the spiritual world, that is absolute.

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And anyone. Yes. Similarly, bona fide spiritual master means who is in the line of successive spiritual master. The original spiritual master is God. So then one who has heard from God and he has explained the same message to his disciple, then the disciple is bona fide spiritual master—if he does not change. That is our process. We take lessons. We hear from Kṛṣṇa who is the perfect, God. And that is explained in the Bhagavad-gita. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2).

O'Grady: But then, you see my poor old father, living in the west of Ireland, a simple man, at his age, seventy now, your generation, he has gotten to the point at his age where he says, "Well, they tell me, the priests they tell me ultimately it's God who knows. But I want to know who told God."

Prabhupāda: No.

O'Grady: And then he comes to me and asks me and says, "You went to school and you read big books. Tell me who told God." And so I have no answer.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the difference between God and me.

O'Grady: That's the difference between being seventy and thirty-nine.

Prabhupāda: No. There is no question of... That is explained in the..., that Bhāgavata, Brahma-sūtra, who is God, first of all. Who is God?

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

O'Grady: Not his brother, not his sister, but this one.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Everyone is important.

O'Grady: But I'm talking about the process of ultimately doing it.

Prabhupāda: No, no, just. When we speak of God, that includes all brothers, all sisters.

O'Grady: Yes, but you said...

Prabhupāda: All of them. Not this brother, that brother. All brothers, all sisters.

O'Grady: Yes, but what I was saying...

Prabhupāda: The God means complete.

Atreya Ṛṣi: You're saying that the spiritual master is chosen?

O'Grady: I'm saying... Yes, a spiritual master the priest, the poet is chosen by, let's say, God, that is, this person is chosen to write poems or to paint pictures or to make music, compose music.

Prabhupāda: No, whatever you do... music also, you can compose...

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: There is no question of stopping. If that is their livelihood, how they can stop it? That is not possible. But they can add this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra chanting. Then things will be adjusted. It is not possible to stop different methods of livelihood. That is not possible. If one can stop, it is well and good, but even he does not stop, he can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.

Yogeśvara: But ultimately isn't our idea that the city complexes shouldn't remain, that things should become more spread out to farm and rural areas?

Prabhupāda: Yes, naturally. If this man is fed up with this industry, he can go back to village and produce his own food. But he is attached to this industrial activity because he is thinking that "We are getting more money for wine and woman and meat. Let me enjoy." That is the perfect, imp... But if he chants Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, his consciousness will be purified and he will be made not interested this kind of work. He will go back to village and produce food. This is French?

Atreya Ṛṣi: No. It is new, 62 the new American. (BTG?)

Yogeśvara: This was your idea, to put the temple buildings on the magazine. Jayādvaita wrote me about that.

Prabhupāda: Very good picture, encouraging, that so many devotees in one center. It is very much pleasing to me. I started single-handed.

Yogeśvara: 1944.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Yogeśvara: Well, for example, ultimately, we want to live locally. These cities are not necessary.

Prabhupāda: No, you make the best use of a bad bargain. We shall depend more... Just like in New Vrindaban. They are coming to the city for preaching. So not absolutely we can abstain immediately because we have been dependent so long, many, many lives. You cannot. But the ideal should be introduced gradually. And make it perfect more and more and more and more. But there is possibility. Possibility if you live locally and make your arrangement, you get your foods... The real necessity is, bodily necessity is, eating, sleeping, mating and defending. This is necessity. So if you can eat locally, you can sleep locally, you can have your sex life also locally and you can defend locally, then what is the wrong? These are the necessities. We are not stopping this. We are not stopping, "No more sex life." That is nonsense, another nonsense. You must have. Marry. That's all. So you can marry locally and live. Where is the difficulty? Defend. If somebody comes to attack, there must be men to defend. And eating and sleeping. Where is your difficulty? Manage locally, as far as possible. After all, these are the necessities of body. So it can be solved locally. Is it impossible? To solve the bodily necessities? What do you think? Is it impossible?

Satsvarūpa: No, it's very simple.

Prabhupāda: Then do it. Do it. Set example perfectly. This is nice park. Yes. You can have your park locally. Where is the difficulty? Garden. Fruits, flowers, garden. There is park. Also you can have a pond like this. People are doing that locally. In Bengal especially. Whole Bengal was a garden. It was so nice. Whole Bengal was a garden.

Room Conversation with Monsieur Roost, Hatha-yogi -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Beginning from abdomen?

M. Roost: The kind of meditation I learned in India with Swami Satyananda, it's a few different type meditation.

Prabhupāda: They begin from the abdomen, maṇipūraka, maṇipūraka. And then the intestines. They come to the heart; then ultimately, to the brahma-randhra. This practice?

M. Roost: Yes, it's a practice of kuṇḍalinī-yoga, but very, very temperate, moderate. It is not the kuṇḍalinī-yoga with strong prāṇāyāma. It's more a question of conscious of awareness of breathing and...

Prabhupāda: Awareness of?

M. Roost: Breathing. For example, breathing which starts in...

Prabhupāda: Prāṇāyāma, this is prāṇāyāma.

M. Roost: And you must have the conscious of your breathing from rodha to ājñā, and ājñā through the Rājadvāra (?) column to mūlādhāra. This is one example. And it's a general technique of concentration. For example, to...

Prabhupāda: That I already said, dhyānāvasthita, dhyāna avasthita. Dhyāna means meditation, and situated, avasthita. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā, by mind, paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ. So these processes are approved, but they are more or less on the bodily concept of life.

M. Roost: Is according to...?

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: That is admitted. That is admitted. I say you may have some temporary healing effect, but there is no healing. That is our point.

Robert Gouiran: So you call it temporary healing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all. But there is no healing.

Robert Gouiran: So what do you think about temporary healing?

Prabhupāda: Temporary means temporary healing. That's all. (indistinct) Ultimately, you cannot heal. But you're satisfied by temporary heal. But we want complete healing. No more disease.

Devotees: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: That is healing.

Robert Gouiran: But do you think that some people could have best... better gift for healings, for temporary healings than other?

Prabhupāda: For temporary healing or best or worst, it is temporary.

Robert Gouiran: But, I mean, do you think some people could have a gift for that?

Prabhupāda: He can talk with (indistinct) He do not, he does not understand what I've given. I say there is no healing.

Robert Gouiran: Yes. I understand that.

Prabhupāda: That's all. But your business is temporary healing. That's all.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: That argument that we don't believe... But you're believing in Lenin's philosophy, the communist. And what is this hippies, their philosophy, Allen Ginsberg's philosophy? Ha? Debauch number one. (laughter)

Satsvarūpa: Ultimately, they don't follow anyone, although they may like people, they...

Prabhupāda: No, they follow.

Devotee: They say our only...

Prabhupāda: But they are manufacture their own philosophy. Philosophy there must be. They've become their own authority. That is a chaotic condition. Authority he has made himself. Yes. I am my authority. Authority has to accept. But he does not know that I am fool No. 1, what is the value of my authority? Authority he must accept. But he makes himself his authority. That is the tendency now. "In my opinion." All rascals say like that. "In my opinion." He does not... He's rascal No. 1, what is the value of his opinion? But he'll say, "In my opinion." That is the difficulty. And this is called creative philosophy. Is it not?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This is going on. All rascals have creative philosophy.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: When I hear in the United States there's a saying, a slogan, amongst the young people: "Do your own thing." And also in India now when I go there they say, "So many men, so many minds."

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Bhagavān: The first thing is he's talking for too long, and you're missing the point. It's getting confusing. Ask him, first of all, to speak a little shorter. (French)

Yogeśvara: So he said, what he's suggesting is that first of all, we'd be better off not giving it some kind of concrete form because he thinks ultimately the silence is the best answer.

Prabhupāda: Then let him learn that. If silence is best, then don't talk.

Yogeśvara: Well, he says, still, we can give it some form for discussion purposes.

Prabhupāda: Then what is his silence? Silence means don't talk. If you prefer silence, then don't talk. (French)

Yogeśvara: He suggests, "Well, In that case, if we're going to discuss the Absolute Truth, then you can say that the ultimate is..."

Prabhupāda: But he raised that Absolute Truth is non-dual.

Yogeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Non-dual.

Yogeśvara: Tat tvam asi. He's saying, "We are that."

Prabhupāda: So then, then why he raised the question of Absolute Truth, non-dualism, neti neti? This is the discussion of Absolute Truth. So why he says, "For the time being, let us become silent"?

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No, teachings of Bhagavad-gītā means Kṛṣṇa. That is the folly of the so-called scholars. They want to study Bhagavad-gītā without Kṛṣṇa. Just like one wants to play Hamlet without Hamlet. (French, mentions Śaṅkara) Śaṅkara has accepted Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Does he know that, that Śaṅkara has accepted Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Personality? (French)

Yogeśvara: So his point is that, well, ultimately, the, now what is going to happen, he says, is we're going to get into a discussion about whether or not the Supreme is a person or impersonal, and he says he doesn't really have the time to get into that.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Then? What did he...? Why he come here? What for?

Yogeśvara: We invited him. (laughter) (French)

Devotee: Well, at the end of Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66).

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: He says, "Give up all this religiousness, and surrender to Me." The whole purport of the Bhagavad-gītā. He's telling Arjuna to fight, but ultimately in the end, He's saying, "Just forget about all these ideas you have in your head, and surrender to Me."

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No understanding of the spiritual. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says the concept of Zen is to see spirituality in matter and something material in spirit, in spirituality. That is the concept of Zen, to realize spiritual life according to matter.

Karandhara: What that means... That's just an expression of the idea that everything is ultimately one. You don't have to make value judgments, you shouldn't make value judgments or say one thing is better than the other, that everything is ultimately the same, and the self is also the same as everything. So there's no distinction and there's no objective or conscious awareness of anything because everything is everything.

Yogeśvara: There's no discrimination.

Karandhara: Yes, there's no self. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says in the daily life there is varieties. If something wrong, we do something right. But when we are speaking about spiritual elevated life, everything is one.

Prabhupāda: Yes, when the spirit is gone, then your daily life is also gone. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says yes, for sure, we all die.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore daily life means so long the spirit is there. As soon as the spirit is gone, there is no more daily life. (French)

Room Conversation with Mr. Tran-van-Kha, and President & Members of the Society of Buddhists in France -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Suppose a child has a different body...

Lady (3): (French)

Yogeśvara: This young lady suggests that the animals do have a soul, and that they also pass from body to body, and perhaps ultimately can come to the human form.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the explanation. You are right.

Guest (2): (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says the evolution was already before, because in the vegetables is already this process of evolution of the soul.

Prabhupāda: Every living entity has soul. The body is just like the dress, just like you are sitting here under different dresses, but that does not mean we are different. That is stated in the Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā: vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni. Find out this, vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22).

Yogeśvara: Second Chapter.

Prabhupāda: You can take it. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya, navāni gṛhṇāti naro 'parāṇi.

Room Conversation with German Women Philosophers -- June 17, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Because he can build nice building, therefore he has got some intelligence.

Pṛthu: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But the effect of building, that he builds according to his instinct, and you construct according to your intelligence, but the sleeping comfort is the same. (German) (break) ...such a nice building, and his enemy throws bomb on it. But the dogs, they do not do that. So who is advanced, the dog or the man? (German)

Pṛthu: Yes she admits that the man by his intelligence, he makes something up which destroys ultimately. But the dog doesn't do, she says.

Prabhupāda: No, no. The dog has no greater intelligence. Therefore he sleeps under some bush very comfortably. But man has made very nice building, and another man destroys it by bombing. So the dog's intelligence is better or the man's intelligence is better? (German) (break)

Pṛthu: So she says that the man, by his intelligence, will go on, go on inventing some things which will destroy, and...

Prabhupāda: So is that very good intelligence? (German)

Pṛthu: So she says that this intelligence is actually not good. She says this intelligence...

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of getting better intelligence than the dog? (German) (break)

Haṁsadūta: ...like to have more, Prabhupāda.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Why not experience? He knows that "I am that active principle." Everyone knows that "I am not this body." When I say, "This is my finger," I don't say, "I finger." So "I," what "I"? That realization, self-realization, that "I am part and parcel of God." So that he knows, that "I am part and parcel of God. So therefore my duty is to serve God." So they are engaged in serving God. So this serving God, or devotional service, is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā... Find out that verse, that:

māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa

bhakti-yogena sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

brahma-bhūyāya kalpate

(BG 14.26)

So unless one is self-realized, he cannot be engaged in the service of the supreme self. Ordinarily, a master and a servant, a servant knows that "I am engaged by the master. He is giving me food. He is giving me shelter. He is giving me everything for his service." So he is careful in his service. This is a material example. Similarly, self-realization is ultimately, as I taught you, that, first impersonal Brahman, then localized Paramātmā, and then the yogis, they realize the localized Paramātmā. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). The yogis, they observe the Supersoul within himself, and they meditate upon Him. What is that verse?

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Misconception, yes. The majority of Indian population, they are personalists. Yes, majority. Either they worship God or demigod, but they are personalists. Recently the Māyāvādī philosophers, they have poisoned, the impersonalism, calamity. God is person. It is... In the Veda it is said, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). There are millions of persons. We are all persons. And God is the chief person. Just like in modern democracy, there is no monarch. But ultimately they have to select one president. Without person, there cannot be government. Why they do not remain without a president? Let it... Government, everything is government, impersonal. Why they select a president?

Professor Durckheim: Yes. One who takes lead, yes, sure.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So if for a small government, three bighās of land, you require a personal governor, and such a huge government, millions and millions of universes, how the governor, the Supreme Person, supreme executive, shall not be a person? What is the reason? Actually, at the present moment, people have given up to understand the science of God. That is the defect. They are thinking everything here. Here is advertisement, "Everything here. Come on. Here is a bottle. Here is the pack (peg?). Come on." Everything here. That is the defect. And we are preaching, "Everything is not there." "Everything is lost there," we are preaching. No intoxication. And the material world is preaching, "Everything is there." This is the difference. We are preaching, "Everything is here in Kṛṣṇa, in God." We have... There is a tendency here. Just see. They want to worship Deity. Even on the street side there is such thing. The tendency is to worship Deity, person. I have seen in Rome. In many small lanes, they have got this, yes. Personal worship. So the village men, they are all sleeping now?

Professor Durckheim: Yes. Most of them are sleeping.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: You read the purport. (Devotee reads in German)

Pater Emmanuel: Brahman is not Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Brahman. Yes, He is Para-brahman. Para-brahman. Brahman is realized in three angles of vision: impersonal Brahman and localized Brahman, Paramātmā in the heart, and personal Brahman. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Brahman because ultimately God is person. Yes. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. The exact Sanskrit word is vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvam (SB 1.2.11). The Absolute Truth is described by the person who knows the Absolute Truth in three ways: brahmeti, the impersonal Brahman, paramātmeti, the localized Paramātmā, and Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is the ultimate feature of God, full with all six opulences, the richest, the strongest, the most famous, the most wise, the most renounced and most beautiful. These are the six features of the Personality of Godhead.

Pater Emmanuel: That's very good.

Prabhupāda: And His being Absolute, His name is not different from Him. The name and the form and the quality of God, they are all Absolute. Therefore chanting His name means associating with God. So when one associates with God, gradually He becomes godly. And when he is fully purified, then he becomes associate of God. (German)

Pater Emmanuel: (German)

German devotee: (translating for Pater Emmanuel) But we can understand the name of God only in a negative way.

Prabhupāda: No. God has unlimited potencies, and therefore He has got unlimited names.

Pater Emmanuel: Yes, but we are limited.

Room Conversation with Bishop Kelly -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Satsvarūpa: In this verse the word buddhi-yogam is very significant. We may remember that in the Second Chapter the Lord, instructing Arjuna, said that He had spoken to him of many things and that He would instruct him in the way of buddhi-yoga. Now buddhi-yoga is explained. Buddhi-yogam itself is action in Kṛṣṇa consciousness; that is the highest intelligence. Buddhi means intelligence, and yogam means mystic activities or mystic elevation. When one tries to go back home, back to Godhead, and takes fully to Kṛṣṇa consciousness in devotional service, his action is called buddhi-yogam. In other words, buddhi-yogam is the process by which one gets out of the entanglement of this material world. The ultimate goal of progress is Kṛṣṇa. People do not know this; therefore the association of devotees and a bona fide spiritual master are important. One should know that the goal is Kṛṣṇa, and when the goal is assigned, then the path is slowly but progressively traversed, and the ultimate goal is achieved.

When a person knows the goal of life but is addicted to the fruits of activities, he is acting in karma-yoga. When he knows that the goal is Kṛṣṇa, but he takes pleasure in mental speculations to understand Kṛṣṇa, he is acting in jñāna-yoga. And when he knows the goal and seeks Kṛṣṇa completely in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and devotional service, he is acting in bhakti-yoga, or buddhi-yoga, which is the complete yoga. This complete yoga is the highest perfectional stage of life.

A person may have a bona fide spiritual master and may be attached to a spiritual organization, but still, if he is not intelligent enough to make progress, then Kṛṣṇa from within gives him instructions so that he may ultimately come to Him without difficulty. The qualification is that a person always engage himself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and with love and devotion render all kinds of services. He should perform some sort of work for Kṛṣṇa, and that work should be with love. If a devotee is intelligent enough, he will make progress on the path of self-realization. If one is sincere and devoted to the activities of devotional service, the Lord gives him a chance to make progress and ultimately attain to Him.

Prabhupāda: So one must be engaged in devotional service, practical. So these our boys and disciples, they are always...

Bishop Kelly: I beg your pardon, your grace. I didn't quite catch what you said.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: That means in need. So that is the question, that you may be in need of food, I may be in need of some woman, he may be in need of some money... In this way everyone is needy. Therefore ultimately one should search after God, when every need will be fulfilled. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja, he went... He was in need of an empire like his father. For that reason he went to the forest and performed all kinds of austerities, and when he saw God he said, svāmin kṛthārto 'smi varaṁ na yāce: "I have no more need. Everything is fulfilled. I don't want anything." He... God said, "Now whatever benediction you want, you take from Me." He said, "No, I don't want anything. Now everything is fulfilled." So that is the real need. The child is crying, and he is not stopping crying. So many others coming. But as soon as his mother comes, he will stop. He understands immediately, "Now I have got the thing, my mother." So the real need is Kṛṣṇa. That is missing. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. All these Western students, they were in need. Now they have got Kṛṣṇa. This young man, twenty-four years old, he has got all the desires for enjoyment, but he's no more after enjoyment. He's a sannyāsī. He's chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Why? (break) ...playing jugglery? He becomes God. So even the so-called yogis, they are in need. The so-called jñānīs, they are in need. The so-called karmīs, they are also in need. Only the bhakta... That Dhruva Mahārāja, he said, "No, I am not in need." Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce (CC Madhya 22.42). So therefore this is the only platform to bring man to feel completely fulfilled. So it is very important movement. So I request you all to study this movement and help and join this movement. It is very scientific, authentic, and real. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ (BG 18.66). If you want to be happy, you have to take Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll be happy. Otherwise not.

Guest (4): So dharma there means to the religious faith or duty?

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: No, this is example. By receiving a knowledge, you must corroborate by your knowledge or by your experience, by the method. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said that Arjuna was declining to fight in the war. So Kṛṣṇa said that "You are simply lamenting on this body, but you do not know what is the active principle of the body." So this you can understand very nicely, that everyone is working for this body, but nobody knows what the active principle of the body. Without the active principle of the body, this body, alive or dead, is the same thing, lump of matter. So Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as teacher; therefore He is chastising him that "You are talking like a learned man, but you are lamenting on this body, but no learned man laments on this body, either dead or alive." Because without the knowledge of the active principle which is moving the body, what is the use of simply understanding the bodily construction? The medical science knows the construction of the body, anatomy, physiology, the bone, this muscle, the blood and everything, but he does not know what is the active principle. When the active principle gone, they cannot repair it. So there may be vast advancement of medical science, but if the medical science cannot check birth, death, old age and disease, then what is the use of it? It may have some temporary use, but actually it is not science. Nobody wants to die. Is there medical science which can stop death? So that knowledge may be temporary, beneficial, but ultimately, it is not the knowledge. I am anxious for not dying. Nobody wants to die. This is my anxiety. And where is that science, medical science? So we are satisfied with some temporary knowledge. We have no ultimate knowledge. And because it is very difficult subject matter, we have avoided it very carefully.

Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Guest (Hṛdayānanda): That suggests that He has a brain.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Thank you very much. So as soon as He has got a brain, He is a person. Therefore God is person ultimately. Just like the government. Government is imperson, but the president is person. Similarly, the cosmic manifestation, the energy working, they are all imperson, but the brain behind this is person. That is the distinction between person and imperson.

Guest (Hṛdayānanda): You said that it is person ultimately. What does that mean ultimately?

Prabhupāda: Ultimately, just like the government is imperson, but ultimately the president is person. The government is going on under the order of the president. Therefore impersonal government is not so important as the personal president is important. Another example: just like the sun, and the sunshine, and the sun-god, three things. The sunshine is impersonal, and the sun globe is localized, and within the sun globe there is sun-god. So in one sense they are all one, means heat and light, but the sunshine is different from the sun globe. When... Just like here is sunshine in this room, but that is not sun globe. Therefore, simultaneously, they are one and different. Is it clear? Any question about this?

Guest (Hṛdayānanda): He says that if God is a person, how can we understand, as there's a common saying that God is and also is not?

Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: But one law... When he was president, he was powerful than the government. When he resigned from the presidency, then he became less important. This is a crude example. The another example is that the sunshine is universally spread, and the sun globe is situated in one place. So which is important, the sun globe or the sunshine? And just like this light is situated in one place and the illumination is spread. So what is important, the illumination or the lamp? The fire is one place, and the fire light and heat is expanded, so the fire is localized, and the light and heat is expanded many miles. So which is important, the fire or the heat and light? Therefore, God is person, but He is not a person like you and me. But His personality is expanded just like the heat and light of the fire is expanded. Similarly, whatever we see, that is the expansion of God's energy. Just like there are many big businessman. The man is person, but he is conducting hundreds of factories, big, big area. The factories are important or the man is important? If an ordinary person in this material world becomes so important and personal, you can just imagine how the person of God is important in spite of unlimited expansion of this material world. So what is his idea? The person is ultimately important. The impersonal feature is there, just like the impersonal feature, sunshine, but the sun globe, and within the sun globe there is sun-god. The sunshine is the expansion of the energy of the sun globe and within the sun globe there is sun-god. So which is important, the sun globe, the sun-god or the sunshine? Which is important? The sunshine is important?

Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: No. That is God. He can expand unlimitedly; still, He remains as He is. That is, means, unlimited. Just like if you have got hundred dollars in your pocket, then if it is spent, one dollar, one dollar, one dollar, then ultimately you become zero. But about God it is said, pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam eva avaśiṣyate (Iso Invocation). That means you take hundred dollars. Still, the hundred dollar is there. Similarly, God as He is, He can expand Himself in millions and millions separately; still, He is the same million. That is called God. If we take God in our conception, that "I have got hundred dollars. I spend hundred dollars. It is zero," but God is not like that. God can expand Himself as God unlimitedly; still, He remains the same. There is another nice example. Just like you take one candle and you lit up another candle, you lit up another candle, another candle and millions of candle, but this candle remains the same powerful, and all the candles lit up, they are also same power. But for our understanding, we take the original candle as first candle, the next as second candle, the third, fourth, fifth, millions. But each candle is equally powerful, and the original candle is still there. So by this expansion, God does not diminishes. That is the meaning of God, and that is the meaning of unlimited.

Guest (Hṛdayānanda): How can we understand the difference between personality and individuality? And if God expands Himself in everything, then He must be inside all of His creation.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Just like a good cook is a good chemist. He knows how to mix up the maśālās and ghee and makes very tasteful thing. So you can call him a good cook. The chemistry is nothing but mixture of different chemicals. That's all. There is oil. There is alkaline. You mix it very proportionately, and soap comes out, very useful.

Mādhava: Prabhupāda, how can we explain to the scientists how gross matter is being produced from subtle matter and ultimately from life, from consciousness. Like if a scientist were looking at the creation occurring...

Prabhupāda: Every scientist knows that originally the sky, the sound, and from the sound, then, what is? Air? What is the process of creation from subtle to gross?

Rūpānuga: First the ether produces sound.

Prabhupāda: Yes. From sound there is air, from air there is fire; from fire there is water; from water there is earth. This is earth, water, air, fire. And the sound, transcendental sound... As it is said in the Bible, "Let there be creation." And in the Vedas also, it is said, sa aikṣata: "He glanced over." That is to be found out, how from sound, from ether, sound is coming... I think that is already in the science. Is it not?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's not known, natural sciences.

Mādhava: You gave one example of television.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- March 13, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are in trouble. Even last war, when the trouble was too much, they began to go to the church. Even Churchill. And one gentleman—he is my Godbrother in Germany—he told me, after this war many German men and women became atheist. Everyone went to the church and prayed. Especially women prayed for return of their husband, brother, father. And nobody returned. So they thought, "There is no God. So forget about all these things." People became atheist. So this risky civilization is going on. They don't want to know what is God, neither they want to satisfy Him. And our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is just the opposite, that "Here is God. You satisfy Him." That's all. "Never mind what you are, but by your occupational duty you satisfy Him. That is perfection." This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And this is taught in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa ultimately said this: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). In the beginning He said, yat karoṣi yat juhoṣi yad aśnāsi yat tapasyasi kuruṣva tad mad arpaṇam: (BG 9.27) "Do it for Me." Yat karoṣi. It doesn't matter what you are doing. And very good work or bad work or anything, when He says, yat karoṣi, means "Whatever you are doing, do it, but the result give Me." Kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam. This is His desire. And at last again He said that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. This is the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, and if somebody would say that "Simply I have to satisfy You? Then I have to satisfy others also. If I do not do, then I will be sinful," that, Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ: (BG 18.66) "Don't worry. If there is any reaction, not doing other duty, simply to surrender to Me, and if there is sinful reaction, then I'll give you protection. Don't worry." This is the conclusion. And we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, that's all, without any malinterpretation. Everyone is interpreting in his own way. But we are not interpreting. We are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: No, concept is there as you told me: "The God has made human being after His own image." Then we can get the idea that God is a person like a human being, He has got two hands, two legs, one head, because after His image we have been... Now, if we study ourself and increase that quality... Just like I am. I can eat. I can eat a certain amount of foodstuff, but God can also eat, but He can eat the whole universe. So eating is there. But the difference of eating is there also. I can create one airplane, but God has created very, very big airplanes like these planets, and they are floating in the sky without any power crisis. That is God's creation. Here we are floating the airplane or running the car with the power, petrol, given by God. You cannot manufacture petrol. Just like in your country there is enough stock of petrol. But you have not created it. So who has created? Your creative power is to drill and get the stock. So much creative power you have got. But you cannot create petrol. Then the Americans would not have come here to beg petrol. That is the difference. You can create something by the ingredients given by God. You can create this table. Because wood is given by God, the instrument is given by God, and the intelligence given by God, the hand is given by God, so in this way you create the table. Then whose property it will be, your property or God's property? Whose property? If I give you wood, instrument, your salary, and you create something, the ultimately the thing created, to whom it should belong? To you or to me?

Young man: To you if you're...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore everything belongs to God. The petrol belongs to God; the land belongs to God; we also belong to God. But because we have forgotten God, there is crisis. Therefore, if you want peace, then you must accept here this principle that everything belongs to God. That is Vedic information. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam. Īśopaniṣad. You have read our Īśopaniṣad?

Meeting with GBC -- March 31, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: ...otherwise, we recommend everyone become sannyāsa. What is the use of not becoming? (all laugh) We are giving up this world. We are preparing ourself for entering into the family of Kṛṣṇa. So why should we be very much anxious to maintain this family. So actually... Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore says; "I'm not a sannyāsī. I'm not a sannyāsī. I'm not a gṛhastha. I'm not a brahmacārī." These four, eight varṇāśrama-dharma is unnecessary for spiritually. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was speaking with Rāmānanda Rāya... You'll find in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya... As soon as he suggested varṇāśrama-dharma, Rāmaṇanda Rāya, immediately Caitanya Mahāprabhu: "It is not very important. If you know better than this, you go on." He did not give any, much stress on this varṇāśrama-dharma. But for regulated life, that is required. And ultimately, it is not required. So it is not recommended for ordinary persons. But this is also unnecessary. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching is so sublime, that such things, which is the beginning of human life, that is also unnecessary. Iha bahya age kaha ara. Bahya means "this is superflous. You speak something higher than this." That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So that is not very easy thing. First of all, we have to live very regulated life. Sannyāsa life is that regulated life. And then we can enter into the real life. That is ideal. So anything more?

Satsvarūpa: Any more on those five points? (break)

Devotee: ...Prabhupāda, beginning of new temples?

Prabhupāda: Shut them. Moving temples.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prajāpati: Yes, unfortunately no guru.

Prabhupāda: Church... Church is following Bible.

Prajāpati: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So ultimately Bible becomes authority.

Prajāpati: In certain segments of Christianity, not all.

Acyutānanda: So what is their conclusion?

Pañcadraviḍa: Excuse me one minute before we go on. What is this in relation to, this discussion? I just walked in.

Prabhupāda: This... The subject matter is whether by theological arguments one can understand God.

Pañcadraviḍa: Well, according to dictionary, theology, theo, the Latin word theo, it means, that means God. Theo means God. And as far as I know, theology means the science or the study of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pañcadraviḍa: So by definition...

Prajāpati: Not precisely. The word theology comes from the word logos. Theologos. And logos, in this sense, means the word of God. Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: But if you..., then you are also moving. Everything is moving because you are on the earth. When the train moves, everything moves. But how it moves, train? That you have to search out. Train is not automatically moving. Some power, engine, is moving it. That is blind vision, that "Train is moving." How the train is moving? You have to see. That is childish. Train is not moving. The engine is moving the train. And how the engine is moving? The coal, fire, is moving. Then wherefrom the coal come? In this way, you have to search out. You'll find, ultimately, the supreme cause is Kṛṣṇa. Nothing is moving without Kṛṣṇa's indication. That is the explanation,

Mayādhyakṣeṇa: (BG 9.10) "Under My superintendence..." When Kṛṣṇa desires, this big, big chunk will move in the air. Recently, Madhudviṣa Mahārāja said, the buses were flying in the sky.

Brahmānanda: Buses?

Prabhupāda: Yes. In Darwin.

Devotees: Oh, in that, that cyclone, cyclone...

Prabhupāda: Yes. And whole city smashed.

Rāmeśvara: They don't know how to search beyond the microscopic level, microscope level. They think that the atoms have their own energy. They don't know the process of searching...

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Why did God create death?

Prabhupāda: No, therefore you are under the control of God. You understand it. So you cannot become free. Therefore death is there, ultimately. You are thinking you are free of the kingdom of God, or laws of God. "No, you are not free. You'll die and you'll accept another body and according to My decision." That is God. This is a question like "Why government created punishment? Why not enjoy ourself without any punishment?" It is a question like that. And that cannot be. It is not possible. That is the proof that there is God.

Trivikrama: Death.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Trivikrama: Death is the proof that there is God.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: And the other part is that then there is another body.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: Death and then another body.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda:

yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya

vartate kāma-kārataḥ

na sa siddhim avāpnoti

na sukhaṁ na parāṁ gatim

(BG 16.23)

"But he who discards scriptural injunctions and acts according to his own whims attains neither perfection, nor happiness, nor the supreme destination." "As described before, the śāstra-vidhim, or the direction of the śāstra, is given to the different castes and orders of human society. Everyone is expected to follow these rules and regulations. If one does not follow them and acts whimsically according to his lust, greed, and desire, then he never will be perfect in his life. In other words, a man may theoretically know all these things, but if he does not apply them in his own life, then he is to be known as the lowest of mankind. In the human form of life, a living entity is expected to be sane and to follow the regulations given for elevating his life to the highest platform, but if he does not follow them, then he degrades himself. But even if he follows the rules and regulations and moral principles and ultimately does not come to the stage of understanding the Supreme Lord, then all his knowledge becomes spoiled. Therefore one should gradually raise himself to the platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and devotional service; it is then and there that he can attain the highest perfectional stage, not otherwise. The word kāma-kārataḥ is very significant. A person who knowingly violates the rules acts in lust. He knows that this is forbidden, still he acts. This is called acting whimsically. He knows that this should be done, but still he does not do it; therefore he is called whimsical. Such persons are destined to be condemned by the Supreme Lord. Such persons cannot have the perfection which is meant for the human life. The human life is especially meant for purifying one's existence, and one who does not follow the rules and regulations cannot purify himself, nor can he attain to the real stage of happiness."

Prabhupāda: So, arrangement is...? Just see.

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: We can go? (end)

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Jayadharma: Does that mean that everybody is ultimately on the way back home? Back to Godhead?

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone is enquiring, but according to his intelligence, perfection, he is making progress. Everyone. Everyone, because he is meant for that purpose. He has forgotten Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is the reservoir of all pleasure. He is trying to find out pleasure other than Kṛṣṇa, therefore he is being baffled. Unless he comes to Kṛṣṇa there is no pleasure. That he does not know.

Paramahaṁsa: We have a saying in the West that curiosity killed the cat.

Prabhupāda: Another example as I gave, crying children, child, crying, crying, crying, crying. As soon as he is on the lap of his mother, immediately stops. Why? He can understand, "Now I have got the real thing." Other woman taking, he still continues crying. You have seen it? This is practical. But when the child comes to the lap of his own mother, he immediately stops. Mother also takes care, "My dear child, come." He sucks the breast and is satisfied.

Gaṇeśa: So one day the material scientist after many, many births will come to understand Vasudeva or Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gaṇeśa: They will become devotees.

Prabhupāda: But that is their foolishness. We, people, Kṛṣṇa conscious people say, "Here is your ultimate goal of this science. Take it." That they will not take. That is foolishness. They will come to the same point. But when you offer him, he will not take. That is less intelligent. (break)

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: What?

Carol: Can you have perfect knowledge,...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Carol: I mean ultimately you might say that I might be able to have some, but it's still a bit doubtful. In the near future how could you ever...

Prabhupāda: Perfect knowledge you can immediately, provided you take knowledge from the perfect. If you receive knowledge from a bogus person, then how you can have perfect knowledge? Knowledge has to be received from a person. Why shall I go to a school, college, teachers, guru? To receive knowledge. So if your teacher, guru or parent, those who are your superior, if they are perfect, then you get perfect knowledge. But if your teacher is a bogus, then you get bogus knowledge.

Carol: And this is immediate, is it?

Amogha: She says is this immediate, the reception of perfect knowledge?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like we are giving knowledge from Bhagavad-gītā. This is perfect knowledge. You take it; you become perfect.

Carol: And your actions are perfect actions?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: That is the idea. That is the real purpose. They want to kill Kṛṣṇa. That is the endeavor of Hiranyakasipu, Kamsa, that "We shall kill Kṛṣṇa." And ultimately they become killed. Their faith is like that.

Amogha: Their whole idea of Indian history, of Vedic history, is completely perverted. When we say five thousand years ago Vyāsadeva compiled this in writing, they say, "There was no civilization five thousand..." They said, "Only two thousand years ago there was some tribes, and they were not very moral," and things like this, all completely nonsense, because they misread the Bhāgavata and things like this. And then they teach some of the students these crazy ideas. Not all of them, but I talked to some who teach like this.

Prabhupāda: The more you fight with these rascals, the more you advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You are a fighting soldier. Kṛṣṇa very much appreciates. (long pause) So you take Bhagavad-gītā by your own interpretation, and I take Bhagavad-gītā as it is. So who is right? Who will decide this? You interpret in your own way. I don't interpret. I take it as it is. Now we are two parties. So who is correct?

Amogha: They say because so many others...

Prabhupāda: No, no, there are two parties. That's all. Others means one who interprets, that is one party. And there is one party who does not interpret. So who is correct?

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: For this reason, the devotees of the Lord, who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, offer food to Kṛṣṇa and then eat—a process which nourishes the body spiritually. By such action not only are past sinful reactions in the body vanquished, but the body becomes immunized to all contamination of material nature. When there is an epidemic disease, an antiseptic vaccine protects a person from the attack of such an epidemic. Similarly, food offered to Lord Viṣṇu and then taken by us makes us sufficiently resistant to material affection, and one who is accustomed to this practice is called a devotee of the Lord. Therefore, a person in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, who eats only food offered to Kṛṣṇa, can counteract all reactions of past material infections, which are impediments to the progress of self-realization. On the other hand, one who does not do so continues to increase the volume of sinful action, and this prepares the next body to resemble hogs and dogs, to suffer the resultant reactions of all sins.

The material world is full of contamination, and one who is immunized by accepting prasādam of the Lord, food offered to Viṣṇu, is saved from the attack, whereas one who does not do so becomes subjected to contamination. Food grains or vegetables are factually eatables. The human being eats different kinds of food grains, vegetables, fruits, etc., and the animals eat the refuse of the food grains and vegetables, grass, plants, etc. Human beings who are accustomed to eating meat and flesh must also depend on the production of vegetation in order to eat the animals. Therefore, ultimately, we have to depend on the production of the field and not on the production of big factories. The field production is due to sufficient rain from the sky, and such rains are controlled by demigods like Indra, sun, moon, etc., and they are all servants of the Lord. The Lord can be satisfied by sacrifices; therefore, one who cannot perform them will find himself in scarcity—that is the law of nature.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: So if they chant the holy name of God there is no loss. At least there is no loss.

Justin Murphy: No, certainly, oh, well, we've established that, sure.

Prabhupāda: So why not begin this? There is no loss. You are not losing anything. Suppose if you chant the holy name of God as a geographer. Your salary is not decreased. So there is no...

Justin Murphy: Certainly not, no. But why is there...? If people are, in their own way, then, chanting to their God, why...

Prabhupāda: No, no... Ultimately, you require sufficient supply of water to grow your food, vegetables. Or even if you are animal-eater, to maintain your animals you require sufficient water. And that is recommended, that yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). And the yajña is very simple: chanting the holy name of the Lord. So why not introduce, that every home, every factory, every community, every place, they should sit down at least for half an hour and chant the holy name of the Lord?

Justin Murphy: Could I ask you very simply? You suggest this. If we all do this, will that, for example, remove the problems that we do, that our society, at any rate, at any guess, generates for ourself? We have more and more pollution. Depending on the way the wind blows, for example, we get at times choking pollution from the industrial complexes down to the south of this city. Are these problems going to be...

Prabhupāda: No, no, the next question will be, "If you get sufficient grain for eating, why should you take to industry?"

Justin Murphy: To make money, very simply.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: No, I am not talking about you particularly, but general way, general way. So this is first-class man. Śamaḥ damaḥ titikṣā. Now, suppose I was not a first-class man; I was a fourth-class man. Now I want to become a first-class man. So I was eating meat. Just these boys, European, American boys, they were eating everything. Now they have given up. On my word or to associate with me, they have given up meat-eating, illicit sex, meat-eating. So in the beginning it may be disturbing because "I am habituated to all these things, and by my spiritual master order not to do this..." So it may be disturbing. But that is called titikṣā, tolerance: "No, I have to do it. If I want to make progress to become first-class man, this is order, so I must do it even..." The tolerance. Even it is disturbing... In the beginning. It is not disturbing. In the beginning, because I habituated to do something... Just like a thief. If you ask him to become honest, it will be disturbing for him because he is habituated to steal.

So that we have to tolerate. Therefore it is called titikṣā. Śamaḥ damaḥ titikṣā ārjavam. Ārjavam means simple life, simplicity, that "If I can live in this way, why shall I acquire so many things for artificial life?" That is called ārjavam. Śamaḥ damaḥ titikṣā ārjavam, then jñānam. Jñānam means knowledge that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul. My..." Actually that is the fact. This body is not important. The living force within the body is important. As soon as the living force goes out of the body, what is this value? You may be a great geographer or scientist or Professor Einstein or whatever. As soon as the living force is gone, you are useless, this body is useless. You have to throw it. That is jñānam, that "I am taking so much care of this material body, which will not exist, which I shall, become... 'Dust thou art; dust thou beist.' Again it will mix up with these dirty things. I am taking so much care of this body. What about that living force, which is important?"

Nobody is taking care. Therefore they are not in jñānam, knowledge. They are in ignorance just like cats and dogs. This is called jñānam. And the vijñānam. Vijñānam means practical application of the knowledge. That is called vijñānam, science. Scientific knowledge there is. Jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam. Āstikyam means to believe in the authority. That is called āstikyam. Just like we are speaking about this Bhagavad-gītā because it is spoken by the most supreme authority, Kṛṣṇa. To believe in the authority. You also believe in authority. But ultimately, in this way, if we acquire this qualification, then we become first-class man. So anyone can be trained up. Just like these boys. They were fourth class, fifth class. And now they are trained up to become first-class men. Just like anyone can become geographer, anyone can become engineer by proper training.

Justin Murphy: Do you think you'll make it?

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is pulled by the ear by the nature, "You rascal, you have associated with this quality. You do this. You must accept this body." That he does not know. "Now you have acted like dog, you accept this body of a dog." This is nature's creation. You cannot say, "No, no, no, I don't want this body." No, you must. "You acted like dog, you take this body of a dog." That he does not know. He is thinking, "I am all in all; I am independent." That is foolishness. The whole world, big, big scientists and philosophers, all in ignorance, and they are being pulled by the ear by nature. That they do not know. What is the purport I have given?

Paramahaṁsa: Purport. "Two persons, one in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and the other in material consciousness, working on the same level, may appear to be working on the same platform, but there is a wide gulf of difference in their respective positions. The person in material consciousness is convinced by false ego that he is the doer of everything. He does not know that the mechanism of the body is produced by material nature, which works under the supervision of the Supreme Lord. The materialistic person has no knowledge that ultimately he is under the control of Kṛṣṇa. The person in false ego takes all credit for doing everything independently, and that is the symptom of his nescience. He does not know that this gross and subtle body is the creation of material nature, under the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead,..." (end)

Morning Walk -- May 18, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: (taking prasādam) (indistinct) But it has got some arrangement, it does not fall down.

Amogha: Yeah, well they accept that also. They say only if there is no such arrangement, then it will fall down.

Prabhupāda: That means conditional. And who makes that condition? That means ultimately you have to accept the existence of God.

Śrutakīrti: Just like they say the moon does not go away because the earth is attracting it.

Prabhupāda: Oh. What is earth? (laughs) All bogus.

Amogha: But if we tell that that there is no law of gravity, they will say that why is it that if you throw up a ball then it comes down?

Prabhupāda: It comes down, heavy, then it comes down, that's all. (laughs)

Amogha: But that heaviness they say is gravity.

Morning Walk -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, if you believe in accident, then you should not endeavor for anything. Nothing happens accidentally.

Hari-śauri: Well, then could not we say that by man's activity, then, things are happening? I had one letter from a person I used to know and...

Prabhupāda: Activity plus sanction of God, two things. There are five causes. The activity, the place, the proportion of energy, and ultimately, sanction by God. Then things happen. Otherwise there is no question of accident. Accident can happen by the will of God. That is also... Behind that accident, there is will of God.

Hari-śauri: So if God is forgotten, then we are simply struggling because...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: ...we are thinking that we are the controller.

Prabhupāda: We are wrongly directed. (break) ...described as mūḍha, asses, who does not take instruction from God and thinks that things will happen accidentally.

Devotee (1): Prabhupāda, is this philosophy like karma-mīmāṁsā which is described in the Kṛṣṇa book? Is this the same principle, where they feel that simply by their endeavor things will come, without the sanction of God? Is this karma-mīmāṁsā?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, karma-mīmāṁsā. (break) Now, if you do good, good result will come. So sometimes it so happens that a person doing very good, still, good result will not come. Is it not?

Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: ...bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are thinking by material adjustment they will be happy. That is not possible. But they are so fools, they do not think over it, that "Where is the solution? You have given me the chance to live in a skyscraper building, but is that solution of the problems?" They have no brain to ask this. Is it...? Does it mean that if you live in a skyscraper building there will be no death, no disease, no old age? Then where is the solution? But real problem is going on. Everyone is trying to save himself from disease, from old age, from death. Why do they go to the physician as soon as there is some disease? "That I may not die." The attempt is to save from the death, but ultimately they are dying. They have no brain to think of it. Why do they go to the physician as soon as one is diseased? Why do they go?

Amogha: They want to be well.

Prabhupāda: Yes, then "well" means they want to save themself from death. That means they want not to die. But death is there. Then where is the solution of problem? But they have no brain to think that "What these rascals will do? My problem is there. It is not solved." And still they accept. Therefore in the Bhāgavata it is said, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). They are eulogized, they are praised, glorified, by another animal. He is an animal, big animal, and a small animal says, "Oh, you are our leader." The big animal is praised by the small animal. Both of them are animals. None of them are human being. So this is going on. A big animal bluffs him that "I have done so much for you. You give me vote." That's all. And the small animal thinks, "Yes, he has done so much. Give him vote." This is going on. Andhā yathāndhaiḥ. Everything is discussed in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that one blind man is leading other blind men. What is the use?

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Indriyāṇi parāṇy ahuḥ. Para. You better come here.

Jayatīrtha:

indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur

indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ

manasas tu parā buddhir

yo buddheḥ paratas tu saḥ

(BG 3.42)

Translation: The working senses are superior to dull matter; mind is higher than the senses; intelligence is still higher than the mind; and he (the soul) is even higher than the intelligence.

Purport: The senses are different outlets for the activities of lust. Lust is reserved within the body, but it is given vent through the senses. Therefore, the senses are superior to the body as a whole. These outlets are not in use when there is superior consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In Kṛṣṇa consciousness the soul makes direct connection with the Supreme Personality of Godhead; therefore the bodily functions, as described here, ultimately end in the Supreme Soul. Bodily action means the functions of the senses, and stopping the senses means stopping all bodily actions. But since the mind is active, then, even though the body may be silent and at rest, the mind will act—as it does during dreaming. But, above the mind there is the determination of the intelligence, and above the intelligence is the soul proper.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore there is no adjustment. Everyone is suffering in spite of so-called education. Nobody is happy.

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the professor was also saying that Kant had a theistic viewpoint also. He believed that there was God and what other things were you saying?

John Mize: The nature of God? Kant's view?

Bahulāśva: Kant's philosophy.

John Mize: That the purpose of the human existence is to improve it's moral nature, to reunite ultimately with God, to be pleasing to God. So it's similar in that sense. He apparently disagrees on the origin...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is sattva-guṇa. Good character means sattva-guṇa, to become brāhmaṇa and then love God. This is Vedic civilization.

Jayatīrtha: Does he make any description of God? Any explanation?

John Mize: His thesis is that God is an intelligent moral force. But he avoided anthropomorphism by not projecting such properties as anger onto God. But he recognized personality in God. God is a moral intelligence and powerful.

Prabhupāda: So to become angry, that is also qualification of God, to become angry.

John Mize: Is...?

Prabhupāda: To become angry is also qualification of God.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Pore: In that illustration is Kṛṣṇa the sunshine or is Kṛṣṇa the sun?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is the person. God is ultimately a person. And then, by His another potency, He is situated everywhere. Aṇḍāntara-sthaṁ paramānu-cay... He is situated within the atom also. That is called Paramātmā, Supersoul. And He is situated in His impersonal, the whole material creation or any creation. The example is given just like fire. Fire is one place but its heat and light is expanded to mines. Just like the sun. It is a fire light, but heat and light is expanded throughout the universe. So similarly, God is one and His energy is expanded everywhere. You can understand Him by His energies. Just like the government, the president, he is not here, but still, we are under government. Who can deny, that "I am not under government"? If you say, "I do not see who is president. What is the government?" That is not argument. You are. Simply you have to make your eyes to see how you are under Kṛṣṇa. That is required. But you are already.

Dr. Pore: But then God in His essence is Ātman, Brahman, not Kṛṣṇa. Is that what you're saying?

Prabhupāda: God is three. I have already given you the example. The sunshine, then sun globe, and the deity within the sun globe, they are all one; still, they are different.

Dr. Pore: And we as human beings, are we part of that too?

Prabhupāda: Why human being? Even the trees, plants, everyone. We are part and parcel of God.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Just wait. I am coming. (break) Kṛṣṇa says that "I am present everywhere by My energy. But personally I may not be here, in here." But ultimately there is no difference between Kṛṣṇa's energy and Kṛṣṇa. Wherever there is energy... Just like electricity. Everywhere there is. If you are expert you can generate electricity from anywhere.

Dr. Pore: Is it possible to find Kṛṣṇa in the Christian tradition or in Islam?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Oh yes. Why not? Christians are seeking after God. You are going to the church. "O God." You accept God has created everything. Here also He says, "Everything is My energy." Where is the difference?

Dr. Pore: The Christians describe Kṛṣṇa in a different way. Are they making mistakes?

Prabhupāda: That is... Just like the heat, the question of energy, the heat 93,000,000's miles away from the sun, heat may be different, and in the sun-globe the heat may be different. But the heat is there; and light is there. The same thing: heat and light is the same, but the degree of presentation of heat and light may be different.

Dr. Pore: Is chanting absolutely necessary in the knowing...

Prabhupāda: That is the easiest way of being directly in touch with God. Because God and God's name, they are absolute, so your chanting the name of God means that directly in touch with God.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Animal condition. Not only horrible, it is animal condition. They do not want to know God. Just like these animals, they are not interested. So they have no church, the animals, or temple. But in the human society, either he is Hindu or Muslim or Christian, there is some arrangement for understanding God. Now they are also neglecting that, everyone, all over the world. Now they are clearly... The Communists, they hate to say anything about God. So ultimately they are coming to such position, the Communists, that "No word about God." So this is the position. Now apart from them, just like theologists and theosophists. They are, at least, after understanding what is God, but they cannot ascertain definitely. So why do they not take? We are offering, "Here is God." Where is the objection? Why they should object? If you do not know something and if I give you the information, why you should not take?

Dr. Judah: That's a good question.

Prabhupāda: That is my question. (break) Just like in India, for higher technological knowledge, they come to foreign countries. So for knowledge, we can take it from anywhere. There should not be sectarianism, "Oh, why shall I take knowledge from here and there?" Wherever knowledge is available, we should take it. That is the real position of seeker of knowledge. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says, nīcād apy uttamā vidyā strī-ratnaṁ duṣkulād api. He says, viṣād apy amṛtaṁ grāhyam. Viṣa, viṣa means poison. "In the pot of poison, if there is little nectar in, take it." Viṣād apy amṛtaṁ grāhyam. Poison is not to be touched, but if there is little nectar in, take it. And amedhyād api kāñcanam: "And in a filthy place there is gold. Take it." Not that gold has been polluted because it is in the filthy place. If there is gold in the filthy place, don't hesitate. Take it. And nīcād apy uttamā vidyā. Generally, people used to take education from brāhmaṇa. So Cāṇakya Paṇḍita advises that "If there is education, actual education, even he is a lower class man, śūdra or caṇḍāla, take it. Accept him as master." And nīcād apy uttamā vidyā. Nīcād apy uttamā vidyā strī-ratnaṁ duṣkulād api. And in India, according to Vedic civilization, the marriage is done after seeing the family tradition very scrutinizingly. So here it is advised that duṣkulād api, "In a abominable family, if there is nice girl, educated, beautiful, accept her.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Nitāi: The Supreme Personality of Godhead has innumerable energies, and all these energies are divine. Although the living entities are part of His energies and are therefore divine, due to contact with material energy, their original superior power is covered. Being thus covered by material energy, one cannot possibly overcome its influence. As previously stated, both the material and spiritual natures, being emanations from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, are eternal. The living entities belong to the eternal superior nature of the Lord, but due to contamination by the inferior nature, matter, their illusion is also eternal. The conditioned soul is therefore called nitya-baddha, or eternally conditioned. No one can trace out the history of his becoming conditioned at a certain date in material history. Consequently, his release from the clutches of material nature is very difficult, even though that material nature is an inferior energy, because material energy is ultimately conducted by the supreme will, which the living entity cannot overcome. Inferior material nature is defined herein as divine nature due to its divine connection and movement by the divine will. Being conducted by divine will, material nature, although inferior, acts so wonderfully in the construction and destruction of the cosmic manifestation. The Vedas confirm this as follows:

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: So these things are uncivilized way of life, and what they will understand God? That is not possible.

Sandy Nixon: I'm asking these questions for others, of course, a field(?) that is not understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: To understand God means one must be first-class civilized man. Just like university is meant for first-class student, similarly, God consciousness means meant for the first-class human being.

Sandy Nixon: O.K. This question's a hard one for me to ask because it shows ignorance on my part. But I'm not asking it in ignorance. I want your answer on tape, O.K.? Does all desire ultimately have to go, including the desire to attain Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you will have simply rubbish desires. And when you are Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you desire rightly.

Sandy Nixon: The aim of many spiritual paths is to find the guru within.

Prabhupāda: Within?

Sandy Nixon: The guru within. Is this different...?

Prabhupāda: Who says that, to find guru within?

Sandy Nixon: Um...

Jayatīrtha: Kirpal Singh, he's one person who says that.

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1975, San Francisco:

Bahulāśva: Now they like to blow them up in the ground. The scientists like to play by blowing them up in the ground.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Or in the sea.

Bahulāśva: They create big disturbances.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...can be solved by understanding these three items: God is the proprietor; He is the enjoyer; He is friend of everyone. They are acting just the opposite way: "I am the proprietor; I am the enjoyer; I am the friend. Because I am God." This is their... Everyone is becoming friend—ultimately proves to be enemy of the country because he is not friend. President Nixon took votes by pretending friendship, and later on, he proved enemy. This is going on. Everyone knows. Gandhi pretended to become friend, but he proved to become an enemy. Otherwise why he was shot down? Unless one thought him as enemy, why he was shot down? This is going on. Nobody can become friend except Kṛṣṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But a pure devotee is a friend to all.

Prabhupāda: Because he carries the message of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is friend, and he is carrying the friendly message. Therefore he is friend. If there is a nice friend and if somebody gives information of that nice friend, he is also friend. Therefore nobody can become friend except Kṛṣṇa's representative. The material world is: "I am your enemy, and you are my enemy." This is the whole construction of the material world. So how the enemy can become friend? It is pretension, cheating.

Devotee: When we go out to distribute books, we try and show the karmīs that the devotee is actually their friend also.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, certainly. That is the real friendship work.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Satsvarūpa: Purport. "Two persons, one in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and the other in material consciousness, working on the same level, may appear to be working on the same platform, but there is a wide gulf of difference in their respective positions. The person in material consciousness is convinced by false ego that he is the doer of everything. He does not know that the mechanism of the body is produced by material nature, which works under the supervision of the Supreme Lord. The materialistic person has no knowledge that ultimately he is under the control of Kṛṣṇa. The person in false ego takes all credit for doing everything independently, and that is the symptom of his nescience. He does not know that this gross and subtle body is the creation of material nature, under the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and as such his bodily and mental activities should be engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The ignorant man forgets that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is known as Hṛṣīkeśa, or the master of the senses of the material body, for due to his long misuse of the senses in sense gratification, he is factually bewildered by the false ego, which makes him forget his eternal relationship with Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: So this is false ego, to think of oneself as free. You are professor of economics?

Mr. Surface: Yes.

Prabhupāda: I think I may remember. There is economist professor, Marshall? Marshall's economics?

Mr. Surface: Yes.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: Milk you are collecting. So put in the pan. I have already explained. From milk stage to yogurt, yogurt to old yogurt, from old yogurt to butter, and then water, that whey. Then butter convert into ghee and whey, you can use, instead of drinking water, drink whey. Not a single drop of milk will be wasted, if you know how to do it. And you can take as much milk as possible, because ultimately it is going to be ghee. So if you start in the cities, nice restaurant, so ghee can be sold there. They'll pay for that. And they can prepare nice preparations, kachoris, samosa, sweetballs. Or milk, if you don't convert into yogurt, then naturally it will become... What is called?

Brahmānanda: Curd.

Prabhupāda: Curd. So curd you can send to the city. They will convert into sandeśa, rasagullā and other preparations, and ghee. That is being done. In India the villagers, they do that. They are, keep cows. Convert them into curd or ghee, and ghee and curd sent to the city, they have got regular price for that. There is no question of waste of milk at any stage. One must know how to do it. So you can keep as many cows as possible and collect as much milk from them. You can utilize. And if some of the villagers trained up, they can open nice restaurant in the city. Utilize the ghee, curd, for making nice confectionary. People will purchase like anything. Just like in our Rathayātrā festival, whatever sweets they prepared, all sold at good profit. Your countrymen, they did not see such nice things. And when they taste it—"Very nice."

Brahmānanda: They were selling one gulabjamin for seventy-five cents.

Morning Walk -- September 15, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Well... Kṛṣṇa failed to give mercy, and what devotee will do? They are stubborn to stick to their principle. Kṛṣṇa said personally, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām (BG 18.66), but who is going to do that? And what the devotees will do?

Vāsughoṣa: If we just engage them in devotional service will they ultimately become purified?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our mission. Somehow or other go on repeatedly saying.

Vāsughoṣa: Because even that atheist hippie, when he was... after he was talking to me about the cigarettes, then the next morning I sold him a book, so he gave twenty rupees.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the way. Some way or other, induce. (break) Obstinacy. What is that, "dog obstinacy"?

Dhṛṣṭaketu: They say, "Stubborn as an ass."

Prabhupāda: Hm. (break) ...selling different types of religious system so that one may not have to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. This is going on.

Vāsughoṣa: Many people were... On the way to... Even on the way to here...

Prabhupāda: And big, big swamis are saying, "Yes, whatever you manufacture, it is all right." Yathā mat tathā path: "Whatever ways you manufacture by concoction, that is all right." So they are satisfied. If somebody says that "You surrender unto me," that is not very palatable. If somebody says, "No, you can surrender anywhere," that is very palatable.

Brahmānanda: Because that means no surrender. To surrender anywhere...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: ...means no surrender.

Morning Walk -- September 15, 1975, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we should return.

Prabhupāda: Return? All right. (break) ...seen by premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). Unless there is love for God, who can see God? Santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu. One who is lover of God, such saintly person, twenty-four hours he sees simply God, nothing else.

Hari-śauri: (break) ...last night, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and he was saying that if everything is ultimately spiritual, if one is spiritually advanced, he sees everything as spiritual. Then if everything is spiritual, then we can carry on just doing the same things that we're doing now, because it's all for God.

Prabhupāda: No. Kṛṣṇa says that "Everything is My energy, but..." Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni nāhaṁ teṣu: (BG 9.4) "But I am not there." This is the answer. Everything is Kṛṣṇa's expansion, but not that everything is Kṛṣṇa.

Indian man (2): It is also not spiritual.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Indian man (2): The energy is there, but it is not spiritual.

Prabhupāda: No, it is spiritual, but because I do not know Kṛṣṇa, therefore I see material. Just like this microphone. It is being used for Kṛṣṇa; therefore it is spiritual. Actually, originally, it is from Kṛṣṇa. So we are not using these material things. Everything, whatever we using, that is spiritual.

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...reasonable to put forward the argument that if man can do all of these things, then God must be able to do at least those things plus more.

Prabhupāda: No. God has no head. Then what can he do?

Devotee (2): I asked one lady, she said, "God wants to test your faith that... Ultimately He has no form, but He wants to test your faith to see if you..."

Prabhupāda: No, how He'll test? He has no head. How He'll test? Unless one has got head, how he can act with brain? Where you get this idea that one has no head, still he has got brain? Where you get this idea? Hm? The brain substance is within the head. This is our experience. So where do you get this idea that He has no head and still He has got brain? Hm? What is the answer?

Harikeśa: They will say that God is man's conception.

Prabhupāda: That means... You say directly, "There is no God. It is a false conception only." You say directly. That is understandable. But why do you say all these nonsense, that "God is there, but He has no head, He has no tail, He has no hands, He has no...?" What is this? Tell directly that "There is no God." The Buddhists say, "There is no God." That is understandable. Why do you cheat? The Christian also believe like that?

Harikeśa: Nowadays they do.

Prabhupāda: Oh. What do they?

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: No question of creating. They have destroyed themselves. Save yourself from destruction. Then you talk of destruction. You destroy. That's all right. But you will be destroyed by some other greater power. What you are going to do that? What you have done for that purpose? You destroy. That is going on, nature's way. I am killing somebody, somebody is killing me. That is nature's way. So what is your special credit? There is no credit. There is no credit. You save yourself not to be destroyed by others. "I can destroy others but nobody can destroy me"—that Hiraṇyakaśipu tried. But that is not possible. Ultimately he was destroyed. That's all.

Devotee (2): They don't seem to care too much about the future.

Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. Therefore we call them rascals. Therefore we have given this position, rascal, that's all. Talk too much, do nothing—that is rascal. (bugles sound in background) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa... Hm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This old fort? This is actually called "Old Fort" isn't it? This part is built around a commemoration to a very old military fort. British.

Prabhupāda: Where is that fort?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's supposed to be some kind of museum over here. I don't think the fort is still standing.

Prabhupāda: And where are the fort makers? (laughter) Where they have gone?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They were shot out of the cannon.

Prabhupāda: So what is the meaning of this fort? If the fort makers are themselves finished, then what is the use of making fort?

Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg:

Indian man (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: Perfection of life means ultimately you become lazy; you haven't got to work. That is perfection, they say. Otherwise why they get a cottage in a secluded place and live? All these Americans, they go weekend. They leave aside all working, they become tired, hard working, and they go. That is the intention, that you should live peaceful life, not working very hard. That is human life. Huh? Otherwise why they go outside the city at the weekend? Why do they go? Hm?

Indian man (1): They want rest, I suppose. They want rest.

Prabhupāda: So that means lazy.

Indian man (1): No.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Rest means lazy; you don't work.

Indian man (1): If one works five days a week, you rest for two...

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. You have to work to become lazy. (laughter) That is another thing. But the goal is to become lazy. You work five days very hard just to become lazy for two days. That's all. So if you have got means to become seven days lazy, you'll prefer it.

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Brahmānanda: They become?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "To their senses."

Brahmānanda: To their senses. Yes.

Prabhupāda: And as soon as they remain in darkness—"Yes, we are trying to control the laws. Future, we shall do"—they're nonsense stupid. You become educated scientist, mathematician, very good. But ultimately you accept that the law is given by Kṛṣṇa, or God. Then you are perfect.

Harikeśa: One scientist once wrote a book, and in this book a person had some disease, so they invented a little spaceship which was very, very tiny, and they went in through the eye and they saw all of the workings of the body, how all the red blood cells and white blood cells were working and attacking the disease and all these things.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Brahmānanda: They made a cinema of this.

Harikeśa: So there was one scene in which they are looking out and seeing all of these, this fight going on inside the blood, and the one scientist inside the machine said, "How can they say there is no God?"

Brahmānanda: Even when the American astronauts went up, they brought a Bible with them, and when they saw the earth, how wonderful it was...

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Nobody of you could answer the question. Now I give you again chance to answer this question very properly. Why one should be obliged to please Kṛṣṇa? Why?

Harikeśa: Just like this finger. Its position is to serve the body. Just like the stomach. Everyone may be jealous of the stomach and not want to feed the stomach, but if all the hands and the legs and the mouth went on strike not to feed the stomach...

Prabhupāda: This is the right answer.

Harikeśa: ...they would ultimately be destroyed.

Prabhupāda: This is right answer, that you cannot non-cooperate with the stomach. You must serve the stomach. Otherwise your position is very precarious. That is the answer. If the finger thinks that "I shall remain independent and be happy," that is not possible. The stomach must be supplied food, and then all the parts of the body, they'll be happy. That is the point. So you cannot non-cooperate with the stomach. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the central enjoyer. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He is the center. Just like ordinarily this African state, if you do not satisfy the state or the president, then you cannot remain happy. Independently you cannot be happy. We require in every step sta... We have come to this park because state is cooperating. In the morning we shall come, and they have prepared it nicely. We are not going to the jungle. So if we actually want happiness we must cooperate with the state. This is crude example. Similarly, if our ultimate aim is to become happy, then we must cooperate with Kṛṣṇa. This is obligatory. You cannot escape it. Then you'll be unhappy. This is the... Stomach. Pranopaharac ca yathendriyanam. Therefore the natural process is you pick up... A child even. He picks up some something, but he does not put anywhere—immediately in the mouth. Why he does not bring it in the ear? Why? The child immediately takes it. He does not know what is what. But the nature is that as soon as he captures something, even he does not know...

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: They understand this is good.

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, I understand Kṛṣṇa is the Personality of Godhead, and He is the one who create this material world. So my impression is Kṛṣṇa, He didn't make this material world to be spiritual?

Prabhupāda: It is spiritual as soon as you become a devotee, spiritual. We are living in the spiritual world. That I explained last night. So ultimately there is nothing material. Material means when you forget Kṛṣṇa. That is material.

Devotee (1): My question, Prabhupāda, was...

Prabhupāda: There is no material. When you forget Kṛṣṇa, that is material. Just like madness. Madness is not our natural position, but when your brain is deranged, then it is madness. Madness has no separate existence, but when our brain is not in order, there is madness. Similarly, there is nothing material, because everything has come from Kṛṣṇa. The original source is Kṛṣṇa. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). So the material world, the so-called material world, has come from Kṛṣṇa. So if it has come from Kṛṣṇa how it is material? The cause and effect is the same, maybe differently manifested. Just like cotton, cotton made into thread, the shape has changed, but it is cotton. And from the cotton thread, you make cloth. The cloth is cotton. But if I say, "Cotton. Bring cotton," then you'll bring cotton, not this cloth. But the cloth is also cotton. Now understand? Cloth is nothing but cotton. But when I say "Bring cotton," you'll not bring a cloth. You'll bring cotton. So the Kṛṣṇa is the sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1), cause of all effects. So all the effects are Kṛṣṇa. But you have no such realization. When you understand that this place is Kṛṣṇa's place, so you can worship Kṛṣṇa, glorify Kṛṣṇa. But if you don't realize that it is Kṛṣṇa's, then you talk nonsense, madman.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. That is not the fact. If you are actually spiritually advanced, you don't care for it. Deha smṛti nāhi yār saṁsāra bandhana kāhān tānra. It is just like Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī. He had no spiritual... er, material con... He was eating every alternate day a little quantity of butter. That's all. How he was living in Vṛndāvana? So when one is perfectly on the spiritual platform, there is no bodily necessities. That is the sign. Therefore our civilization is to decrease the bodily necessities, not to increase. Control. Control, from the brahmacārī, control, control, control. Ultimately completely control. That is perfectional stage. Tyāgena. What is that verse?

Dr. Patel: Iśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ yat kincid jagatyam... (ISO 1).

Prabhupāda: No, tapasā brahmacāryena tyāgena yamena vā (SB 6.1.13). This is wanted. Tapasa. Beginning. Tapasya means that controlling the senses. That is tapasya. And the tapasya begins...

Dr. Patel: (Sanskrit) ...brahma.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Tapasya means... Beginning is brahmācārya. Tapasā brahmacāryena (SB 6.1.13). So where is brahmācārya?

Dr. Patel: Brahman prati ācarati āśā brahmacārī.(?) All the senses. Not only the upasthas, but all the ten senses, including your mind and the discriminating buddhi, all are directed toward serving feet of God, and then he does not... That is real brahmacārī.

Morning Walk -- November 10, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Jihvādau, yes. Chant means you must vibrate your tongue. That is chanting, Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is never said, "You chant within the mind." Where it is said? These are their manufacture to avoid. That's all.

Yaśomatīnandana: Then, when we get into deep discussion, then they say, "Whatever I am working is for Kṛṣṇa. Everything is Kṛṣṇa." So ultimately they admit that actually it is not the person Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: No. In bhakti...

Yaśomatīnandana: But they are thinking themselves Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: That is not bhakti. Everything is going on for Kṛṣṇa. That is fact. But that is not bhakti. Bhakti is different thing. Bhakti is anukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśilanam (CC Madhya 19.167). Never says, "Whatever you do, it is everything is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is all right." Never said. anukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśilanam. What Kṛṣṇa accepts, that is bhakti. Kṛṣṇa accepts... Everyone is thinking... That is not Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious. So "Everything is Kṛṣṇa," that is all right, but when you think particularly of Kṛṣṇa, that is bhakti. Kṛṣṇa...

Indian man (4): Now it may say everybody had.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian man (4): Because those people, even trees have gone...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Morning Walk -- November 14, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Unless one understands Kṛṣṇa... Vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). Veda means knowledge. So all kinds of knowledge, they are aiming at the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So if one does not understand what is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then māyayāpahṛta-jñānā—he has no knowledge. Knowledge means ultimately he must know what is God. That is knowledge. Ye kṛṣṇa tattva vetta sei guru haya. Anyone who knows Kṛṣṇa, he becomes guru. Otherwise not. The first test is you may be scientist, philosopher, educationist, whatever you may be, but ask him, "Do you know Kṛṣṇa?" If he says, "No," then he is a fool. That's all. This is the test. (chuckles) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So Ambarisa Mahārāja, do you agree?

Ambarīṣa: Yes. It's a good test.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Goldsmith, they take a stone, black stone. Do you know? And they rub the gold on the stone, and they can immediately say whether it is gold or not. So our, that stone, is Kṛṣṇa. If anyone knows Kṛṣṇa, then it is gold. (laughter)

Devotee (3): Haribol! Jaya Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise it is bogus.

Indian man (5): It is very good.

Morning Walk -- November 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: And māyāvāda philosophy was necessary to dislodge the Buddhist, degenerated Buddhism.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śūnyavādi. Nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi. They are practically the same. Buddhists say that everything is zero ultimately. And the Māyāvādīs say...

Dr. Patel: Māyāvādīs, sir, have been proved that if everything is zero, who sees the zero? Who sees the zero?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Māyāvādī says zero, just like the sky. The sky is there, but it is zero. You cannot see the planet.

Dr. Patel: But who sees all these things? That is what...

Prabhupāda: And he cannot see; therefore he says it is zero. Just like now you do not see the stars, but it is on account of my deficient vision I do not see, and I say, "It is zero," less intelligent.

Dr. Patel: Apahṛta-jñāna. Apahṛta-jñāna.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Apahṛta-jñāna Māyāvādīs, they have spoiled the whole thing.

Dr. Patel: Do you think, in your opinion, māyāvāda was a necessity to undo all the bad effect of the degenerated Buddhism? This followed some three, four or seven hundred years of after Gautama Buddha.

Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:

Mahāṁsa: So first of all Acyutānanda... I wasn't there, but Acyutānanda and Yaśodānanda said, "No, we don't know much San... A little bit. We don't..." So he quoted, "Sarva dharmān... Do you know that verse?" So they said, "Yes." So he said, "Explain what is the meaning of that verse." He started the whole conversation. We didn't want to get into any philosophical argument. So they started explaining what is the meaning, one must surrender to Kṛṣṇa. And then it went on, who is Kṛṣṇa. And then finally Acyutānanda and Yaśodānanda were quoting so many ślokas that they were completely baffled, and the whole crowd that was there, they were appreciating, and we were defeating them. By every śloka we were defeating them, and they were completely baffled. Ultimately he said—he could not fight back—so he said, "Swamiji, you are right," and he wanted to close the whole conversation because the people were gaining our side. They were being convinced by our ślokas.

Prabhupāda: This is Kṛṣṇa's mercy.

Mahāṁsa: They were completely shocked that they knew so many Sanskrit ślokas from so many different scriptures.

Prabhupāda: The Western learned circle, they are admitting that the greatest contribution of Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is these authentic translation of Vedic literature. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Mahāṁsa: (break) Many people in Bangalore, when I went to see them, they knew about our movement. "Oh, yes, Hare Kṛṣṇa. You all do bhajan..." They call us bhajan mandali. Then when we started preaching to them, showing them the philosophy, the books and all the activities that we are doing all over the world, they were really, they were shocked. They said, "Oh, we never knew you were doing so much." And they said there is no other organization which is comprising of all the different kinds of activities, all kinds of welfare and spiritual activities that we are doing. If we just had many preaching parties and go all over and show people what all the activities that we are doing, people will accept us. They will know more about our movement. Otherwise right now they just think that we are just a kīrtana group, bhajan mandali.

Morning Walk -- November 30, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: For presidentship?

Haṁsadūta: For presidentship. And he stands a very good chance of winning.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's governor of California. (break) The movie stars are entering into politics now. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the government will be incompetent, the more the citizens will be exploited. Ultimately the citizens will suffer. Because they will want money and plunder the citizens, they will be disgusted. Āchinna-dāra-draviṇ gacchanti giri-kānanam. (break)

Tejās: ...tax division, the clerks will come to the various businessmen after they make their first application, and they will tell them... First they will come to them. And immediately a businessman knows, so he gives him 500,000 rupees. And he will say, "Oh, thank you very much. I just came to see you. I wanted to tell you that if you say like this, you will save ten thousand, twenty thousand rupees. But don't say when you are there that I told you." (end)

Morning Walk -- December 3, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Nietzche? Nietzche means?

Harikeśa: Nietzche, that philosopher. He was the one who first...

Prabhupāda: (Aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Yes.

Harikeśa: Nietzche first brought up the philosophy of "Everything is nothing," for the Western people. "It's all nothing. It all ultimately boils down to nothing. So there is no possibility of God."

Prabhupāda: Śūnyavādī. Śūnyavādī. That is śūnyavādī. Nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādī. Śūnyavādī, they say, "There is no God, and there is nothing, fact. Everything is combination of some illusory things." This is śūnyavādī. And the Māyāvādī, they say, "Yes, there is God, but He has no form." Therefore we have to kill both of them. Nirviśeṣa-śūnyavād-pāścātya-deśa-tāriṇe. The whole Western world are filled up with these śūnyavādi and impersonalists. India is also nowadays, but there are, still there are devotees in the ācārya-sampradāya. They are fighting against śunyavāda and nirviśeṣa.

Harikeśa: In South India I think a lot of the Rāmānuja followers are.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Akṣayānanda: If everything was void, then there would be no hope for living. So might as well die.

Prabhupāda: No. By combination, permutation, you create, and if you don't want it, then avoid this combination. (break) Even in four o'clock time, visiting, if he comes at four o'clock, you let him come in. (break) ...Gurukula we require teachers for teaching the small children. So our, these girls, they cannot take this charge of teaching?

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So one may check, two may check, what about millions? Supposing they can check in that way, it may be possible for one or two, or a dozen, but what about millions and millions? Nature's way.

Harikeśa: That's if they, they're doing this in...

Prabhupāda: In future. That will solve in future.

Harikeśa: They were giving prizes to people who are doing this.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: Like TV sets.

Prabhupāda: Mutual 'present' society. (everyone laughing) (front bell of temple ringing as Prabhupāda enters grounds) Hiraṇyakaśipu civilization, and we are presenting Prahlāda civilization. So this is a struggle, but ultimately Prahlāda will come out triumphant. Hare Kṛṣṇa (to bystander) and Hiraṇyakaṣipu will be killed. Jaya! (Walks into temple) (end).

Room Conversation -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Harikesa: He says that if you renounce now, you can enjoy later. That if you take some austerity now, like meditation, abstaining from certain things, that later on you can enjoy sex life unlimitedly, have clear intelligence unlimtedly, and ultimately become the...

Prabhupāda: The Mahesh Yogi, TM. Transcendental meditation. But I don't think they say that if you undergo austerities you...

Harikesa: No, that was in the beginning they were saying...

Prabhupāda: Oh now he has changed!

Harikesa: Now he has changed, because it was too unpopular.

Prabhupāda: It is business.

Bhāgavata: Rajneesh is also like that.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bhāgavata: Rajneesh, same philosophy.

Room Conversation -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: So, then Kṛṣṇa is speaking, otherwise how he heard? Hm? This nonsense is going on. Everywhere, it is very difficult position. So many rascals. And we have to push on our movement through so many obstacles, but still we are going on, that is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. Otherwise we are simply meeting with obstacles. What can be done? We have to go, forward. I, I met in... same idea! Impersonalism, bogus thought and no clear idea.

Bhāgavata: One man came to Calcutta temple, and he insisted that Kṛṣṇa was impersonal, that He has no form. That He was, ultimately there is just the Brahman. I said that Kṛṣṇa says in the Gītā, brahmaṇo hi pratiṣṭhāham; He says, "that aham means the Brahman." I said that if that aham means the Brahman, then why is Kṛṣṇa being redundant in saying that the Brahman is subordinate to the Brahman? Brahmaṇo hi pratiṣṭhāham, He just said Brahman is subordinate to aham, Me. So if aham means Brahman then why is Kṛṣṇa saying the Brahman is subordinate to the Brahman? And they are swamis, yogis and avatāras. It is very dangerous position, very dangerous. We have to deal with all rascals and fools. And they have made some position, of course that position is nothing, hm? A big big, I mean to say, Mr. Nanda is also big thing, of this idea, nirveśeṣa-śūnyavādī; still we cannot change our position. We must go on with our conviction and that is real. Reality. So, begin kīrtana. (end)

Morning Walk -- December 24, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Because if you want to be attracted, God has made in such a way that both of them are attractive to one another. That's all. You want to be attracted; therefore woman is made attractive. And the woman wants to be attracted; man is attractive. This is nature's arrangement so that you may be bound up by this attraction. Tayor miṭha hṛdaya-granthiḥ mām. You are already bound up, and by this attraction you will be more tightly bound up. Puṁsāṁ striyā mithuni-bhāvam etad. The whole material attraction means a man's attraction for woman and a woman's attraction for man. But when they are seeking, "Where is woman, where is woman, where is woman," and the woman is seeking, they come here to make this business. Huh? And when they are actually attracted or united, then this bondage, material bondage, will become more tight. Therefore the Vedic civilization is how to slacken it, and ultimately, by force, separation, sannyāsa. Because unless they are separated, there cannot be any spiritual advancement. That is the whole process. The unity is bondage. I have written a letter that man is good, woman is good, and when they are united, they are bad! (laughs) Both of them are bad. And the material world is taking, "This is the best thing." But actually that is not the thing. Man is good, because he is part and parcel of God, and woman is good, part and parcel of God, but when they unite, they become bad. Tayor miṭhādi hrdayanti-maho.

Lokanātha: For detachment you suggest they remain separate.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless they are separated, it is very difficult to advance in spiritual consciousness. That is the whole Vedic system. Gradual. First of all, brahmacārī, he is educated very nicely that this is not good to marry and enter into a family life. And in spite of education, if he is still inclined, then he is allowed to marry. This is a concession. And that is for a few days, few years. Then compulsory separation from the family life. Vanaprāstha. At that time, wife is allowed to stay with the husband, but finally they are separated, sannyāsa. Wife should go home, remain with their children. That's all.

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But discuss on.... That is dialectic. Complete discussion. That is wanted. That we want.

Harikeśa: So now if they're actually interested in the scientific method, they must accept our thesis for discussion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dialectic.

Harikeśa: And then they can put...

Prabhupāda: They have accepted dialectic. They.... Marx says that this should be the conclusion of materialism: ultimately the worker shall enjoy.

Harikeśa: Fruitive, it's very fruitive.

Prabhupāda: That is good idea. But who is the worker, he does not know. Write small pamphlet. Just like our Svarūpa Dāmodara has written small pamphlet. People, general people, they're also rascals, andhā. They can accept these rascals. But why we shall accept?

Harikeśa: This is experimental philosophy.

Prabhupāda: But that.... Experimental philosophy means rascaldom. You do not know actually what is the fact. Then you make experiment. That means you are rascal.

Harikeśa: I meant that this thesis, antithesis...

Prabhupāda: Just like Kṛṣṇa does not say, "Make an experiment." He says the fact: asmin dehe dehinaḥ. "The proprietor of the body is within this body." There is no question of experimenting.