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Ultimately (Conversations 1967 - 1973)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Oblations. Yes. This, and to beget child by the husband's younger brother. Formerly, the society allowed that if a woman is young, she has no child, but husband died, so if the husband has younger brother, through the younger brother she could have a child. This system was current. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that these five things are forbidden in this age. So Chand Kazi also replied that "Cow killing is also not generally recommended in the Koran. Actually, beef-eating or flesh-eating is not in the higher stage. But those who are inclined to take flesh, for them it is recommended that instead of killing many small animals, one big animal should be killed. So actually in Mecca, Medina, they kill camel. That is also in the mosque." So the substance of his speech was that flesh-eating ultimately is not recommended. "But those who have no other means, they eat flesh and they recommend that one big animal should be killed. So India, the cow is big animal, therefore we kill. But that is not recommended for advanced spiritual students." In this way... So they were friends, and he understood, Chand Kazi understood that it is very nice movement, that "You are preaching love of Godhead. So I did not understand. So my dear boy, henceforward there will be no hindrances in Your movement and I promise that not only myself but all my descendants will never object Your movement, this saṅkīrtana movement."

Hayagrīva: All right. Now I don't have any questions there. I probably wouldn't deal quite at such length about the meat. I don't see how that... The main thing was about the saṅkīrtana, the chanting.

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu?

Hayagrīva: His age at this time?

Prabhupāda: Twenty-four years. It is just after His sannyāsa. He took sannyāsa at the age of twenty-four. So He's visiting. After sannyāsa He's going to Jagannātha Purī. On the way He visited this Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha, Sākṣi-gopāla, and ultimately He came to Jagannātha temple. And in the Jagannātha temple was very crowded temple because it is always at least 500, 1,000 devotees are always seeing. It is significance of Jagannātha temple. So He entered and as soon as He saw Jagannātha He became overwhelmed with ecstasy and fell down unconscious. So all the people gathered, "He's a young sannyāsī. He has fallen down." So there was Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, the learned scholar of Purī. He saw, "Oh, this young sannyāsī, He's not ordinary." So he asked his men to carry Him to his place and that will be the scene. Then after His departure His followers will come, and they will search in the temple that Caitanya Mahāprabhu is not there. Then one Gopīnātha Ācārya, I think the character is there? Gopīnātha Ācārya?

Hayagrīva: Now is this the...

Prabhupāda: Yes, Gopīnātha Ācārya.

Hayagrīva: Is this the learned brāhmaṇa?

Prabhupāda: Gopīnātha Ācārya and Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. They were brother-in-law.

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Questions and Answers -- September 6, 1968, New York:

Prabhupāda: No. The yoga practice is like that. It is very good, that "Why we should bother ourself with such things?" That is the opinion of the devotees. The devotees, they do not want any such miracles to perform or to make some jugglery to the people. They are satisfied with the service of the Lord. So that is the position of the devotee. But generally, the yogis, they want such things. There are many instances of great yogis in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, just like Durvāsā Muni. He wanted to show his power to Ambarīṣa Mahārāja. That's a very nice story. I shall narrate next meeting. The yogis, everyone, yogis... Yoga practice is, therefore... It is more or less material activity. Because when they are powerful to show some miracles and people become captivated, "Oh, he is performing such miracle thing." In Benares in India there was a yogi. His business was anyone who will go there, he immediately produced two or four rasagullās and offer him. And many hundreds and thousands of educated men became his disciple simply for the matter, rasagullā, which is only four annas worth. So people want to see this jugglery. And those who want following some or some material achievement, they want to show... Actually it is a fact. Suppose if I could manufacture rasagullās by some mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, oh, thousands of people will come immediately. You see? People want to see me, and those persons who want to have a cheap following, they want to show such jugglery. But a devotee sees... (break) ...is not of that mentality. They will simply, humble servant. They are satisfied by serving the Lord. That is devotee's position. So your statement, that "Why one should bother with these things?" That's a very nice proposal. Why? There is no necessity. Suppose if I can manufacture some rasagullā, what is the worth of this rasagullā? Oh, we can, if we spend ten cents, we can make it. So why shall I waste my energy for manufacturing rasagullā in the yoga system? Actually, therefore, Kṛṣṇa says that the perfection of, real perfection of yoga, the first-class yogi is he who is always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. That is first-class. He is recommended.

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ
mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā
śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ
sa me yuktatamo mataḥ
(BG 6.47)

"The first-class yogi is he who is always..." He never says that first-class yogi is he who can show this jugglery. No. That is not recommended. Actually, and the yoga practice begins, samādhi. Real yoga practice is, after controlling the senses, the next stage is samādhi, concentrate the mind, focus the mind on Viṣṇu always. Always thinking of Viṣṇu, always seeing Viṣṇu within himself. That is yoga practice. But by such practice, automatically one gains such powerful things, and when one gains such powerful powers, they want to exhibit to get following for material achievements. But that is not the purpose of yoga. Yoga means to realize the Supreme Personality of Godhead and ultimately reach in His kingdom. That is the real purpose of yoga. (break) Yes?

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Prabhupāda: So far Hindu religion is concerned, it is a very broad thinking. The Hindu religion, Vedic religion, is divided into two kinds of philosophers. One kinds of philosopher is the impersonalist. They take the Absolute Truth as impersonal, all-pervading impersonal. And the another philosophers, they take that the Supreme Absolute Truth is person. The impersonal feature is one of the features of that person, but ultimately he is person. So without person there cannot be any question of love. Therefore the section who believes in person... Not believing, they know actually what He is, and there is method how to love that person. The example is given: just like the sun and the sunshine and the predominating Deity in the sun globe, similarly, one who comes to the light, he first of all sees the sunshine. That is impersonal. Then, if he goes further, if he is able to go to the sun planet, that is localized. And if he can enter into the sun planet and see the predominating deity there, then he is a person. So this is a vast science. People are too much engrossed with material activities. They do not try to understand actually what is the position of Absolute Truth, what is the position of the soul. Practically in the present day they are more or less animalistic. Just like animal does not know anything beyond eating, sleeping, mating and defending, similarly, the modern civilization is too much busy for increasing the method of eating and increasing the process of comfortable life or sleeping, and increasing the matter of, method of sexual life, or increasing the method of defense. So these things, are found even in the animals. They also eat, they also sleep, they also have sex life and they also defend in their own way. So human life is not limited within these four walls. He has to understand what he is, what is this world, what is this creation, what is God, how it is going on. But they are neglecting that fact. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness will give information to this department of knowledge.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like a man in fever talking nonsense. So that is due to fever.

Kīrtanānanda: In Kṛṣṇa consciousness, are the actions of the jīva similarly controlled by Kṛṣṇa's superior energy?

Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly.

Kīrtanānanda: But everything is being controlled ultimately by Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Kīrtanānanda: Either by inferior energy or superior energy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Kīrtanānanda: So his activities are never independent, either in Kṛṣṇa or...

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: She is also impersonalist.

Allen Ginsberg: She is impersonalist

Prabhupāda: She is not a devotee. There are many impersonalists. They take advantage of... They say, "Caitanya's patha, Śaṅkara's maṭha," that "Follow the principle of Caitanya but ultimately take the conclusion of Śaṅkara." That means...

Allen Ginsberg: Śiva.

Prabhupāda: No. Śaṅkarācārya.

Allen Ginsberg: Aha. What was the conclusion of Śaṅkarācārya?

Prabhupāda: Śaṅkarācārya's conclusion was to defeat Buddhism. They do not know it, but actually, when there was too much animal-killing and people became almost atheist under the shadow of Vedic rituals, Lord Buddha appeared. He wanted to stop men from the sinful activities of killing unnecessarily under the plea of Vedas. So he invented that ahiṁsa, nonviolence. And... Because people will give evidence, "Oh, in the Vedas there is..." They are not following, actually, the Vedic rituals, but just like crooked lawyers take advantage of law books, similarly... Therefore, Lord Buddha said that "I do not follow Vedic rituals. I have nothing to do with Vedas. It is my own formula." So Jayadeva has written one prayer because the Vaiṣṇavas can understand how God is playing. So he writes, nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātaṁ: "My dear Lord, now You have appeared as Lord Buddha. You are decrying the Vedic rituals." Śruti-jātaṁ. Śruti-jātaṁ means Vedic. Why? Sadaya-hṛdaya-darṣita-paśu-ghātam: "You are so much compassionate to see poor animals being killed unnecessarily." Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare: "All glories to Jagadīśa. You have now assumed the form of Lord Buddha, and You are playing in pastimes." So Lord Buddha is accepted as incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. In Bhāgavata also it is stated. He is accepted as the tenth incarnation.

Room Conversation -- September 24, 1969, London:

Prabhupāda: So now people do not wish to consider also this point, that "If I am eternal, if I am changing my place, my dress, my occupation every fifty years or ten years or twelve years according to the dress..." The cats and dogs, they live for ten years. The cows live for twenty years, and the man lives for, say, hundred years. Trees lives for thousands years. But everyone has to change. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). As we have to change our old dress, similarly, this body has to be changed. And we are changing. Changing every moment. That is a fact. This boy will grow also some day like you, like me. This body will not stay. I had a body like this, say, fifty years ago or sixty years ago, but that body is now missing. I have got a different body. So everyone is changing body in this way. We do not know where that body gone, but ultimately also, we shall change, and we shall enter another body, and again we have to begin new set of work, leaving all aside. Suppose this life I was President Kennedy; next life, even if I am born in America next door to President Kennedy's house, nobody will recognize me that "Here is your property. Come on. Enjoy." No. Property's gone. Again he has to make another property. This is going on. So the people do not think that "What I am doing? What I have gained? What is my ultimate aim of life?" This is missing. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, mūḍha. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍha duṣkṛtino narādhamāḥ, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuraṁ bhāvam aśritāḥ (BG 7.15). People are not very serious. They're so much in ignorance that they: "All right, let it happen, whatever may happen. We may enjoy life." But this is not very good position. One should be, at least in human form of life, one should be very sober, considerate (of) what is happening. So out of many fruitive workers like this, one becomes wise: "Why I am doing this?" This is wisdom. That is the platform of knowledge, to inquire that "What is my position?

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: The regulative principles will keep you on the standard of life. If you give it up, then immediately you fall down, māyā. So this man Ajamila, because he was durācāra, naṣṭa-sadācāra, lost of all regulative principles on account of associating with a prostitute, then, although he was born of a brāhmaṇa family, he became... His livelihood was juha(?), bandy-akṣaiḥ, cheating and stealing. Bandy-akṣaiḥ kaitavaiś cauryaiḥ. Cauryaiḥ means stealing. Garhitāṁ vṛttim āsthitaḥ. This kind of profession is garhitā. Garhitāṁ means... Hitā means beneficial. But this profession is garhitā because it is not beneficial. Ultimately he will be punished either by the king's law or by the God's law. I can escape the king's law by doing something which is abominable but I cannot escape God's law. That is not possible. Therefore, although he is thinking that "Now I am cheating this person," or "I am stealing and getting some profit," that is not good for him. Just like a man is killing some man, another man. So that is not good for him because as soon as he will be arrested he'll be hanged. So they think that "I am cheating the state, I am cheating God, and I can go on gratifying my senses by all these activities," but that is stated in the śāstra as garhitā. Garhitā means it is not beneficial for you." Na sādhu mānye yato ātmano 'yam. In another place it is said, "These kinds of activities, vikarma, is not good ultimately." Na sādhu mānye yato ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). Although ātmā, the self, is different from this body—that is the first lesson in spiritual life—still, this body, although temporary, but as soon as you accept this material body you will have to suffer according to the body. If you get a dog's body you suffer according to that. If you get a man's body... Suffering will be there more or less as soon as you get this material body. Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva said, na sādhu mānye: "You are acting abominable. It is not good because you are already suffering in this body." Otherwise why you are stealing?

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Other things you cannot follow. You are already fallen. So you take to this process of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra without any offense. And in order to save yourself from the offenses, a little austerity that you cannot have illicit sex life. Why should you have illicit sex life? Everyone's need is sex life. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam. These are the bodily needs. So śāstra has sanctioned, "All right. You can live peacefully by married life and have sex life for children, good children." That is allowed. But why should you have illicit sex life? What is this? Irresponsible life. "I shall not take responsibility of family life, and I shall go on as so-called bachelor and have illicit life." But that is not good. That is garhitāṁ. Na sādhu mānye: "This is not good." This is the advice of Vedic literature. Ultimately you'll suffer. You are thinking at the present moment that you are avoiding suffering because family life is very responsible life. So if you think that family life is responsible, yes, it is responsible life. If you don't take, if you cannot take the responsibility, then remain as a brahmacārī. Why should you marry? Yes. If you practice brahmācārya, then you become free, seventy-five percent freedom immediately. But you do not want to undergo the austerities of a brahmacārī, and still, you want to remain as an unmarried man. Everywhere in the world it is going on. This is increasing. That is stated here, sadācāra. Naṣṭa-sadācāro dāsyāḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. The illicit connection with man and woman will certainly make him abominable, fallen down to this abominable life. I... When I was... In my younger days, when I was in business, so I was to take agency one of big company, Smith's Transit Company. So they had to... I had to give some guarantee of my honesty. So in that program the question was whether married or unmarried. Because unmarried man mostly become dishonest. So that inquiry was there, "Whether he is married?" Married man cannot be dishonest because he has got responsibility.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: That scientific spirituality, that is advancement more than the animals. Otherwise if you simply remain on the (indistinct) eating, sleeping, mating and defending scientifically, you remain animal. But when that scientific research goes to the spiritual thing that is special prerogative of the human.

Śyāmasundara: This replacement by science of religion has proven inadequate also in the twentieth century because how can it satisfy ultimately the questions?

Dr. Weir: In the same way, how can you satisfy a person's lack of emotional content in his job by giving him more money? Half of the trouble starts with the jobs, is they have no emotive content now because there's no rapport between them and their boss. They have practically no intellectual interest because they've a routine job in a factory. And you know they are really deprived in a sad way.

Mensa Member: Then what worries lots of people about lots of religions is the (indistinct) for example of pointing a finger at the (indistinct) choosing the finger with the (indistinct)

Dr. Weir: One of the difficulties, and I think this is true when I was saying simple people, using that in a broader sense, some people cannot get anything at all unless they have a little picture. You know, it helps them; not like the dear old lady who found...

Prabhupāda: That we give, the picture. Here is God.

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: I want to revive brāhmaṇa-ism, kṣatriya-ism. Unless you do that, there cannot be any peace. Dharma. Dharma means this classification dharma. There are two kinds of dharmas. One, material dharma, and another, spiritual dharma. Actually, dharma means spiritual. But so long we do not come to the standard platform of spiritual dharma, we have to regulate our life in such a way that we may come ultimately to the spiritual platform. So that material dharma is that, as Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13).

Dr. Singh: Guṇa-karma vibhādayo.

Prabhupāda: So the brāhmaṇa's dharma, the kṣatriya's dharma, the vaiśya's dharma, and the śūdra's dharma.

Dr. Singh: In the modern world, Swamiji, wouldn't you think that the same person has got to combine in himself the qualities traditionally ascribed to all the dharmas? Therefore, a man must be..., he must have the knowledge.

Prabhupāda: That is a fact, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Dr. Singh: He must have the integration of the guṇas.

Prabhupāda: Integration of guṇas, sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). That is transcendental position. You have to transcend all the three guṇas. Nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna. Traiguṇya-viṣayā vedā. The Vedic system is dealing with the three kinds of guṇas—sattva, raja, tama guṇa. And Arjuna was advised to come to the platform of nistraiguṇya, nirguṇa.

Dr. Singh: Caturthaḥ(?).

Room Conversation -- December 11, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: So bhakti-yoga is so powerful. Executed properly, very simple method. Then you become the most learned man in the world. Even without going through the books, they will be revealed. Kṛṣṇa will reveal. Kṛṣṇa is śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ (SB 1.2.17). As you become purified by hearing the glories of the Lord, Kṛṣṇa, puṇya-śra, hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi, the dirty things which push obstacles and impure understanding, they are removed. They're washed up. Washed up. Just like if your room is dirty, there..., there is possibility... Therefore I ask you, keep cleansed, your bathing, your clothes, your room. Otherwise you'll suffer hepatitis or jaundice, this, that. You'll suffer, because you are not clean. If you clear, you remain cleansed, then there will be no disease. If you remain cleansed, you eat properly-don't eat more, don't eat less—there will be no disease, no doctor. That's a fact. But you do not know cleanliness, although you are..., that is because your, your cleanliness is with machine. And without machine, you cannot keep clean. Why not this broomstick is sufficient? If in India machine is not available, you cannot be clean? Keep everything cleansed-utensils, plates, teeth, hands, feet. Use sufficient water. There will be no (indistinct). Dirty things should be removed, and cleansed inside and outside. Inside cleansed: simply Kṛṣṇa consciousness, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. That is inside clean. And outside, that is also required. You cannot neglect, because outside unclean means inside also you'll see unclean. If you keep both sides clean, then you will be healthy inside and outside. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇa puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi. Abhadrāṇi, all inauspicious things, that will be cleaned. They should be washed. To become sacred thread means he must be śuci. Satya śamaḥ damaḥ śaucam, śaucam. One must be very clean. That is brahminism. Not simply having a sacred thread: "Prabhupāda, give me sacred thread, sacred thread, sacred thread," everybody. You have got sacred thread, that is certificate, but what is your śaucam? Cleanliness. The brāhmaṇa's name is śuci. He is always cleansed. Everyone will see, and he'll immediately feel how cleansed he is. What is the difficulty? God has given sufficient water. For cleanliness you simply require water, that's all. No antiseptic bottle-Dettol, this, that, so many. You are manufacturing so many rascal things, but ultimately unclean. Ultimately unclean. But by God's arrangement, by Kṛṣṇa's arrangement, simple... (end)

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:

Śyāmasundara: It seems like that it's the nature of all living entities to be mad after something.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Love. That I explained—love. We have got our love in store. But instead of loving Kṛṣṇa, we have distributed the love in so many ways, and frustrated. Love is there in store. That is reserved for Kṛṣṇa. And we are trying to love Kṛṣṇa, that I explained. Why I am loving this body and this apartment? Ultimately he goes to Kṛṣṇa. But that you do not know. You are actually trying to love Kṛṣṇa. But because nobody is giving him Kṛṣṇa, he's crying.

Śyāmasundara: That was the name of Allen Ginsberg's first book, Howl.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Śyāmasundara: Howl.

Prabhupāda: Howa?

Śyāmasundara: Howl. That means it was a protest, a howling, "You have not given us the right information," to his elders. "Now what do we do? Simply howl." That was the introduction for our generation, and we all listened to that, read that, the howl protest.

Prabhupāda: He is also searching after; therefore he comes. Whenever he finds opportunity, he comes to me. He's searching after Kṛṣṇa.

Śyāmasundara: Yes. He gets so many bogus ideas. (laughs)

Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But he agreed the existence of supreme brain. We were talking about the talk between Einstein, Heisenberg, and some of the famous so-called physicists in nuclear field. So there was a conversation between Einstein and this Heisenberg, and Paul Durad(?), and (?), these are mostly (?) scientists, they are mostly Nobel Laureates. They were discussing, and without Einstein, these people they were talking, "Why Einstein is all the time talking about God?" Then this Heisenberg, he was not like Einstein. Einstein himself, he believed that there is a brain behind, supreme brain of God. And some of them, specifically this one, young Durad(?), he is also a scientist, he was very young, he was only twenty-five years old. So he said, "Einstein is all the time talking about God." This Durad(?) is completely opposite to this Einstein. So they were discussing about why Einstein is thinking about God all the time. And so... But ultimately they said, most of them agreed that there is a supreme being who is making all these physical laws, natural laws. It's already in the universe, but they are trying to discover it. So most of them agree except this Durad(?). So in the same line, (?) told me that yes, we agree that all the physical laws is already there. If somebody doesn't make it, then how can it exist? So he said he is thinking also in that line that there is someone, some brain, some supreme brain who is making all these physical laws. Otherwise there cannot be physical laws if there is not someone. He was saying that he started thinking in that line too.

Prabhupāda: (Sanskrit) He makes everything, but He is not attached. (break)

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So these people, the sahajiyās, they have become dogs and hogs. Now after this life, (indistinct). For their sinful activities they have become dogs and hogs. Now unconsciously as dogs and hogs they are taking advantage of the Vṛndāvana land. Now they... Now they will become pure devotees. Just like we see in the life of Bharata Mahārāja. So much austerity, and because a little attachment for the deer, the next life he was (indistinct). Yamala-arjuna, they became trees. But on account of staying in Vṛndāvana, next life (indistinct). So we should be intelligent. Why should we take another chance of becoming hogs and dogs? But that requires intelligence. Ultimately they will be delivered, but it will be delayed by becoming hogs and dogs once(?).

Gurudāsa: Acyutānanda Mahārāja said that he has heard that Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī has said that these turtles in Vṛndāvana were previously caste gosvāmīs.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So...

Gurudāsa: It's a result of trying to cheat māyā then?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Gurudāsa: It's a result of trying to...

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 28, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, if you keep here hydrogen bottle, oxygen. Will the combination come in contact?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Unless it is not mixed.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore you require a superior energy. This is inferior energy, and the superior energy comes, mixes. Then the fact is there. The inferior energy has no power unless the superior energy tackles. Just like this sea will remain calm and quiet. But another superior, air, when it pushes, it becomes high waves. It has no power. Another superior... Similarly another superior, another superior, another superior. So ultimately Kṛṣṇa, the most superior. This is research. These waves are not moving by itself. Although the vast mass of water is there. When the superior energy, air, pushes it, it becomes big waves.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the action of force is necessary?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Force.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is some scientists' theory, Newton's? That originally there must be some pushing. What is it? Whose theory it is? To set in motion.

Devotee: Newton?

Prabhupāda: I think Newton's.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The Newton has the laws of motion.

Morning Walk -- April 29, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. But there is none complete. Except Kṛṣṇa. Nobody's complete. Our pro, philosophy is that we have to select if we... That we must have to. Otherwise, there is no life. Just like you scientists, you quote so many leaders, scientific leaders. Without this, there is no life. So... Just like in the Bengali there is a proverb that if I to, if I have to steal and become a thief, why not plunder the government treasury? Why pickpocketing? If I have to be punished as criminal, as thief, let me plunder the government treasury and then let me go to jail. So this is our policy. So if we have to submit to somebody, why not the best and perfect? That is our philosophy. You cannot avoid submission. That is not possible. Who is there who does not submit to anyone? Find out anyone. If you, if a man has nobody to submit, he brings a dog and submits to him. The dog is passing stool. He's standing. He's submitted to the dog. The dog is passing urine, he's submitting: "Yes sir, you pass your urine. I take care of you." This is the nature. If you do not submit to God, then ultimately you have to submit to the dog. This is nature. You cannot avoid it. You have to submit. There is no other way. Because your position is like that. Without submitting to one, you cannot live. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). This is the philosophy given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Ultimately when death comes, we have to submit to...

Prabhupāda: Yes, one has to submit to death. Yes. What is the time now?

Karandhara: About ten to seven.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We lost an hour last night.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end of recording)

Morning Walk -- April 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Sterile. When all the scientists are not famous, notorious. Then this will be called notorious. Somebody has manufactured atomic weapon. Somebody has contraceptive. Somebody has synthetics.

Brahmānanda: All rogues.

Prabhupāda: Scientists means they must do something mischievous. That's all.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Ultimately, they're saying that: "In the future, we'll make tablets, scientists will make tablets, just, taking one or two tablets and they will be satisfied, their hunger." So food will be very simplified.

Prabhupāda: But the food value will be taken by him. "Instead of paying to the stores, you pay us. We give you tablet."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They're dreaming so many things.

Prabhupāda: Idle brain is a devils' workshop. Because they have no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, their brain is a workshop of the devil. That's all. Harer nāma harer nāma... (CC Adi 17.21). (pause) And without culture men are becoming rogues and thieves, uncultured. Communist movement. Atheistic... Everywhere, nobody's happy. The government's duty, first duty should be that everyone is happy. That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, during the time of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira. Even there was no natural disturbances. No excessive heat, no excessive cold. No anxiety. People are dying now out of anxieties. They're becoming mad, committing suicide, drinking liquors more and more. Just for anxiety. When they cannot solve any big problem, "Bring bottle." Is it not?

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, that is possible.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So I think it was about five hundred rupees per ticket.

Prabhupāda: Oh, just see. His real aim was to get some money.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Radhakrishnan was there, the president. But ultimately, he could not walk. He fell down in the water.

Prabhupāda: And what about the money?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I don't know. He was beaten or something. They said he missed something.

Prabhupāda: That's like you, chemist, just missing something, "In future we shall do it." It is the same thing. And these fools, Dr. Radhakrishnan and company, they are so fools that so many animals they are walking on the sea, "I am going to see another man." Just see, how they are fools. What is their credit? The sea lark. They call sea lark? They go very nicely. Why do they not see that? He is animal, he is, another is an animal.

Kṛṣṇa-Kāntī: Birds can float and they can fly.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So Dr. Radhakrishnan was a big rascal.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. By mercy of spiritual master, the mercy of Kṛṣṇa, he gets the seed of devotional service, and if he cultivates, then his life becomes successful. Otherwise he has to rotate, sometimes up, sometimes down. Sometimes this grass, sometimes lion.

Paramahaṁsa: But ultimately if we come to Kṛṣṇa, there's no return. But nevertheless, Jagāi, and..., the two gatekeepers, they returned?

Prabhupāda: There is return, that is voluntary. Return there is.

Paramahaṁsa: If we want.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: So we can come to the spiritual world and return?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: Fall down?

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. But they are rascal. It is not the brain that is working. It is the spirit soul that is working. The same thing: the computer machine. The rascal will think that a computer machine is working. No. The man is working. He pushes the button, then it works. Otherwise, what is the value of this machine? You keep the machine for thousands of years, it will not work. When another man will come, put the button, then it will work. So who is working? The machine is working or the man is working? And the man is also another machine. And it is working due to the presence of Paramātmā, God. Therefore, ultimately, God is working. A dead man cannot work. So how long a man remains living? So long the Paramātmā is there, ātmā is there. Even the ātmā is there, if Paramātmā does not give him intelligence, he cannot work. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). God is giving me intelligence, "You put this button." Then I put this button. So ultimately Kṛṣṇa is working. Another, untrained man cannot come and work on it because there is no intelligence. And a particular man who is trained up, he can work. So these things are going on. Ultimately comes to Kṛṣṇa. What you are researching, what you are talking, that is also Kṛṣṇa is doing. Kṛṣṇa is giving you in... You, you prayed for this facility to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is giving you. Sometimes you find accidentally the experiment is successful. So when Kṛṣṇa sees that you are so much harassed in experimental, "All right do it." Just like Yaśodā Mā was trying to tie Kṛṣṇa, but she could not do. But when Kṛṣṇa agreed, it was possible. Similarly, this accident means Kṛṣṇa helps you: "All right, you have worked so hard, take this result." Everything is Kṛṣṇa. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). Everything is coming from Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Devotee (1): So then your process is imperfect. You admit. We're saying that there's a process which is perfect, and it's a process of receiving knowledge which is absolute, that is descending, and receiving that with a submissive attitude. And you're saying that by your sensuous endeavor with your different machines and instruments, you can ascend to the Absolute Truth. But the symptom of a person who is in knowledge is that he's satisfied, he's peaceful within, and we can understand that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness society is developing, is helping living entities, people, become satisfied within by receiving knowledge and actually coming to, to understand themselves and what's around them and so forth, whereas, let me ask you, how many people have actually come to this stage of peacefulness and knowledge, of being freed from the need for intoxication and so many different things, by your scientific method? In other words, has this process helped you to be actually filled with knowledge and bliss, or has it simply sent you into more questioning and more doubt until you come to a point of what we were discussing the other day, the Heisenberg's theory of uncertainty? Ultimately you come to the theory of uncertainty. So we're saying, when you come to this point, then you may as well just relax and try to have a submissive attitude, or any scientist, and try to receive knowledge which is descending.

Prabhupāda: Another, another thing is, he says, he says that he does not know what is there beyond this material nature. But he's still satisfied with that imperfect knowledge.

Devotee (1): That's right. You should not be satisfied with that imperfect knowledge.

Krishna Tiwari: Wait a minute.

Room Conversation with Father Tanner and other guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Well, that is temporary. Everyone is subjected to death. So you may be very strong, healthy, but you cannot avoid death.

Father Tanner: No, but then, then...

Prabhupāda: So, so therefore, ultimately, you become so-called healthy or not healthy, you'll die. That is the fact. So we do not want that kind of healthy life. Our proposition is that we go back to home back to Godhead and remain with God, eternally enjoying blissful life. This is our healthy life.

Father Tanner: I, I accept these principles, but, you know, the words, I would say you could be healthy, but, you know, when you go to God at the end, this isn't on your physical healthiness.

Prabhupāda: No.

Father Tanner: This is on your spiritual self.

Prabhupāda: When you go to God, you go in your spiritual body.

Father Tanner: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Spiritual body. So...

Father Tanner: But you can be physically healthy...

Room Conversation with Father Tanner and other guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Father Tanner: What...? Would you ever admit that a spirit could fail after his last chance...?

Prabhupāda: That misuse of little independence. That I have already told. He has got little independence. So so long he's engaged in the service of the Lord, he remains in a spiritual body along with the Lord.

Father Tanner: No, I'm saying is it possible for any spirit not ultimately, after his various transmigrations through bodies, is it possible for any spirit never to regain contact with the Lord?

Prabhupāda: Yes. If he comes in contact with a servant of God, then he revives his old consciousness, original consciousness.

Devotee: Prabhupāda, what he was saying was is it possible for a spirit soul never to regain the state of God consciousness.

Prabhupāda: No, why never? He has got chance. When he comes in contact with a servant of the Lord, he revives his Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then he begins his spiritual life. So how can you say...?

Father Tanner: But is it possible... You know, the world one day will end, and physical bodies will end...

Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible.

Father Tanner: The world will not end?

Prabhupāda: World will end. Yes.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: They were so suspicious.

Buddhist Monk (1): Well, I was wondering whether they would ask me whether I am bringing narcotic, the religion, the heart of the heartless, soul of the soulless, the opiate of the masses. So I had read Marx before I left my country. I had thought "They will ask me," but no such question was asked. And ultimately, when I was leaving the Soviet Union, they again opened my books, you see, and put them back. One book, an officer kept one book. I thought, "Now, what is this? All right." He closed the suitcase, did not put this book, and he comes behind me and says, "Could I have this book?" I said, "You see, I have made many notes in the book. Why do you want that book for? So kindly return it to me, please." He wouldn't return it. He follows. And he said, "Please let me have it." I asked him, "Why do you want this book really for?" He said, "I have studied Buddhism from the Northern School, and I would like to know something about the Southern School of Buddhism." I said, "Anyhow, you can get these books, I'll give you an address." But he wouldn't give it to me. He said "Please let me have it." I said, "All right, good health and peace to you. You can have it." Hungarians are very warm-hearted people, very warm-hearted people.

Prabhupāda: It is for me?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Leave it.

Buddhist Monk (1): And Swamiji, you generally spend more of your time here?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Generally, in America, Los Angeles. And also in Europe.

Room Conversation with Malcolm -- July 18, 1973, London:

Śyāmasundara: Is looking for the medicine part of the medicine?

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no necessity of looking for it. The medicine's already there, goal of life. So we have to take information from authorities, what is the goal of life. Just like this child. The child, he knows that "My father is goal of life," or "My mother is goal of life." He may walk all over the room, but he knows that "Ultimately, my father is goal." Similarly our goal of life is the Supreme Father. Now, if this child is taken away from this room, he'll cry. He'll not be able to express that he wants the goal of his life, his father and mother. He'll simply cry, missing. Similarly, our goal of life is the Supreme Father. But because we are missing, we are crying here, throughout the universe, throughout the creation. We are simply crying. This is called struggle for existence. But the real goal of life is...(Aside) There is fire. Don't allow him to go there. There is fire. (Noise of child in background) Now, he doesn't remain there; he comes to the mother, the goal of life. Similarly, we have got our goal of life, a supreme father. We are missing that. Simply one has to know that "This is our goal of life. We were searching in vain for so many other goals of life." Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). The goal of life is the Supreme Lord Viṣṇu. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They have missed the goal of life on account of their propensity to become happy within this material world. And that is the missing point. He cannot be happy without reaching... The same example. This child cannot be happy without being in the association of the father. If this child is taken away and he's given nice food, he'll cry. He'll cry because the goal of life is missing. Similarly, we are missing the goal of life. Therefore we are not satisfied in any way in this material world. There(fore) Bhāgavata says, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). This struggle for existence is going on because they do not know that the goal of life is God, Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu.

Malcolm: If the child is taken from the parents, he will cry, but he will stop.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Knower, knowledge and the object. The object is Kṛṣṇa and you are knower, or trying to know. And the process is bhakti. That's all. If you want to understand Kṛṣṇa, then you have to adopt the process of bhakti. No other process. It is clearly stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). No other process. No speculative philosophy or meditation. It is not possible. So bhakti is the process, you are the knower, and Kṛṣṇa is knowable. That's all. (break) ...vādī, impersonalists, they say ultimately the knower, knowable and the known becomes one. That is their philosophy. Monists. There is no more knower, no knowable, the knower... Simply knowledge. They say simply knowledge. Oneness.

Yogeśvara: You quoted... In the course of your lecture this morning, you quoted that verse from the Tenth Chapter, dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ tam. When that knowledge comes, the devotee is qualified by some degree of advancement?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The more he's qualified, the direction comes from Kṛṣṇa.

Yogeśvara: And what is the... What form does that direction take?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yogeśvara: And what form does that direction take?

Prabhupāda: In whichever way. The real direction is that he may come back to home, back to Godhead after giving up this body.

Yogeśvara: Is that buddhi, that intelligence manifested in some way, in his service, or in his thinking?

Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So what is that step? What is that step?

Yogeśvara: He says it's a gradual progress, that their students come, they receive initiation and then they are guided. They are given certain principles, certain practices, and then gradually, at their own rate, by their own powers, they ultimately arrive at perfection.

Prabhupāda: So what is that ideal of perfection?

Yogeśvara: That it is nirvāṇa, it is the kingdom of Lord Jesus Christ. He says it is the ultimate point for which all men are ultimately striving.

Prabhupāda: So what is that? Nirvāṇa means zero. Everyone is trying for the zero?

Yogeśvara: (break) Nirvāṇa means something different for them?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Yogeśvara: (break) He says it is an entering into something that is alive and real.

Prabhupāda: Nirvāṇa, this word is Sanskrit word. Nirvāṇa means finish. (break)

Yogeśvara: For them the word nirvāṇa means an end but an end to this material existence and an entrance into the silence of the Absolute, onto a level that is real, whereas this one is false. This one is rejected.

Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Yogeśvara: ...but in their society they have many different religions, many different groups, and they don't ask anyone to leave being Christian or Jew or Muslim or Hindu or anything like that.

Prabhupāda: So we are not asking in that way. We are asking, "What is that ultimate goal?" (break)

Yogeśvara: ...ultimately, by following a process that the Rosicrucian order gives its students, one reaches the goal.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Suppose if I am going to London. So unless I am interested to go to London, what is the use of knowing how to go to London?

Yogeśvara: Their students feel the need for this ultimate perfection and that's why they come to the movement.

Prabhupāda: But if he does not know what is ultimate perfection, this is bogus.

Yogeśvara: (break) ...realization of God.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Just like if I say that "If you do like this, you can make one million dollars." But you know what is the value of one millions dollars; then you endeavor. But if we don't know what is that one million dollars, why should we endeavor?

Yogeśvara: No, he said, all of their students, they know the value of realizing God in their heart.

Prabhupāda: How do they know? How do they know?

Yogeśvara: There are already people who are aspiring after a richer, more spiritual life.

Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But suppose I want to enter. So you must give me some formula that "You have to do this like this." Otherwise how can I enter?

Yogeśvara: He says there are many different techniques, but ultimately they are really all the same because they lead to the same conclusion. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...those techniques? Let him say some of the techniques.

Yogeśvara: He says the first thing is that we have to awaken our internal consciousness which is ninety percent asleep.

Prabhupāda: So what is the process?

Yogeśvara: I don't care to talk about them here.

Prabhupāda: Then how can I accept it? I cannot enter into some vague thing.

Yogeśvara: All the systems have to do with meditation, concentration, things that will reawaken your consciousness.

Prabhupāda: What is the object of meditation?

Yogeśvara: (break) ...different objects, many different.

Prabhupāda: But tell one of them.

Yogeśvara: The body for example. (break) He says that there is "the eternal meditation number three."

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So imperfect senses can give imperfect knowledge. That is not scientific knowledge. What you are thinking scientific knowledge, that is bogus. Because the man who has given that knowledge, he's imperfect. How you can expect perfect knowledge from the imperfect person?

Guest (2): It's a question of degree.

Prabhupāda: Now, degree may be, but ultimately, if you are unable to give perfect knowledge, then what is the use of taking knowledge from you?

Guest (2): Yes, I accept that view. But how do you prove that a man...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore you take from the perfect, Kṛṣṇa. We take from Kṛṣṇa's representative. One who speaks as good as Kṛṣṇa. That is our process. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). We don't take, don't accept knowledge from any rascal. We accept knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme. I may be rascal, but because I am receiving knowledge from the perfect, whatever we speak, that is perfect. A child may be innocent he does not know. But he has learned that this article is called spectacle. So when he says, the child says, "Father, this is spectacle." This is perfect knowledge. Similarly, if you hear from the perfect and act accordingly, then you are perfect. Now Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. After death there is another body. So we accept it. It doesn't require any proof of so-called science who's imperfect.

Guest (2): So the question of belief comes first.

Prabhupāda: It is not belief, it is fact.

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes, hungry, everyone is hungry. Because in the Western countries, unless they are hungry for spiritual consciousness, why they are hippies? They are frustrated. They are not going to live like their fathers and forefathers.

Reporter (2): Frustrated?

Prabhupāda: Yes. This material civilization, ultimately it will be frustration because... Just like... Try to understand... You are a person. You are covered with this coat and shirt. If I simply take care of your coat and shirt, and if I do not give you something to eat, how long you'll be happy?

Reporter (2): Not very long.

Prabhupāda: That's right.

Reporter (2): Do you take this throne with you all the time?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Reporter (2): No. How, how does it come to be here?

Haṁsadūta: We have a temple. So we bring it.

Reporter (2): And this is called?

Haṁsadūta: This is called a vyāsāsana.

Reporter (2): And for...

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No... nāpnuvanti. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ. Saṁsiddhim. Siddhi, siddhi is ordinary. If you become transcendentalist, jñānī, yogi, that is also kind of siddhi. Yogis, they have got aṣṭa-siddhi, aṇimā-laghimādi. But that is not saṁsiddhi. Saṁsiddhi is different. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ. The highest perfection, saṁsiddhi is to go back to home, back to Kṛṣṇa. That is saṁsiddhi. Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). That will save him from coming down again to this place which is full of miserable conditions of life. That is saṁsiddhi. That one can attain very easily. That is also described, that janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ: (BG 4.9) "Anyone who understands Me in truth..." Generally, people understand Kṛṣṇa that "He appeared as a great personality, son of Vasudeva. At Mathurā, He was born. And He acted very gorgeously in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra, and so on, so on." This is also knowing. But this is not knowing factually that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. When one understands Kṛṣṇa, the original source of everything, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), which Kṛṣṇa explains, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "There is no superior authority beyond Me." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: (BG 10.8) "I am the origin of all." When one understands Kṛṣṇa like that... The Māyāvādī philosophers, they think that "I am also Kṛṣṇa, I am also Kṛṣṇa." But people who follow, they do not ask him that "If you are Kṛṣṇa, you show something as Kṛṣṇa showed. Kṛṣṇa lifted the Govardhana Hill when He was seven years old. And you are seventy years old. What you have done like that?" (laughs) So everyone wants to become Kṛṣṇa, but he cannot manifest Kṛṣṇa's pastimes. Kṛṣṇa showed the virāṭ-rūpa to Arjuna. What you have got? So this is Māyāvāda. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). Kṛṣṇa says, "Nobody can be superior than Me or equal to Me, equal to Me." Therefore Kṛṣṇa's another name is Asamordhva. Nobody is equal; nobody is above Him. Asamordhva. So in this way if we understand Kṛṣṇa, then we become liberated. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). And this tattvataḥ is very significant. How you can know Kṛṣṇa as He is, in truth? That is also explained. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). If you want to understand Kṛṣṇa in tattva, in fact, in truth, then you have to adopt this process of bhakti. Not jñāna, not yoga, not karma. Karma, jñāna, yoga, bhakti. So Kṛṣṇa is understandable simply by bhakti, not by other methods. Not by karma, not by jñāna, not by yoga. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). The jñānīs, karmīs, yogis, they are trying to come to the Absolute Truth, but they will take many, many births to come to this point to surrender. Therefore intelligence means if one understands that "Ultimately I have to come to Kṛṣṇa for my highest perfection; then why not immediately? Kṛṣṇa is canvassing, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66).

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1973, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Ah! That requires Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Guest: Ah, yes.

Prabhupāda: Then you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Guest: Ultimately everything.

Prabhupāda: Unless you become a devotee.

Guest: Quite right.

Prabhupāda: Therefore śāstra says, harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā (SB 5.18.12).

Guest: Quite right.

Prabhupāda: Those who are nondevotee they cannot have any good quality.

Guest: You see therefore unless you have more production and good quality people...

Prabhupāda: Production. (indistinct) cooperate. Just like United Nations. We can produce 20 times production that is required.

Guest: Quite right.

Prabhupāda: So much land.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Grapes are sour. (devotees laugh) The jackal's philosophy. The jackal came in the orchard of grapes and tried to take some grapes. He jumped many times, and when he failed, "Oh, there is no necessity, it is sour." It is jackal's philosophy. Sly fox.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say that ultimately there may be no difference...

Prabhupāda: It is Māyāvāda, Māyāvāda. Māyāvāda says brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. This world is false. (break) ...so what... (break) ...prepared it, so he is the cause of this construction of the bench. How can you say there is no cause?

Hṛdayānanda: Then they would say...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Hṛdayānanda: They would say, "If everything has a cause..."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: "...then God also must have a cause."

Prabhupāda: No, that is God, which has no cause. That is our definition. Everything has cause, but when it comes to a point where there is no more cause, He is cause and effect Himself, then that is God.

Devotee (1): So then sometimes they say, "Well, what's to say there will ever be original cause?"

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Bali Mardana: They say, "the law of nature," but they refuse to acc...

Prabhupāda: Any law, as soon as you say, "law", you must have to accept a law-maker. Any law. Otherwise, there is no... Just like the law is: "When there is red light, you must stop." You don't see any person, but if you don't stop, then you go to a person who will prosecute you. You don't see the person here, but if you violate, you'll have to go to a person who will fine you, "You rascal, you have done this." So ultimately a puruṣa, person.

Karandhara: (break) ...just for atheists who want to be a little pious, but they're not...

Prabhupāda: Yes, little, little moralist.

Karandhara: Yes. Moral atheists.

Prajāpati: In the West, there's what's known as Protestant Ethic, which means you work hard like a dog and a cat.

Karandhara: And enjoy, enjoy the fruits of your labor.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is done by the pigs. Whole day, finding out "Where is stool? Where is stool? Where is stool?" And as soon as he eats some stool, gets some fat, "Where is sex? Never mind, mother, sister, or daughter. Come on, sex." This is pig life, pig civilization. It is not human civilization. This kind of behavior is found amongst the pigs, amongst the dogs. Do you think we have to create a human society like the pigs' society? At the present moment, they're eating anything and everything like pigs, and they're having sex with anyone, never mind. So it is a pig society. There is no discrimination. (break) ...the most popular thing is this drinking, eating meat and drinking wine. Is that to be accepted because it is very popular?

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Death.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Ultimately, find there is no death.

Prabhupāda: No, what...? Death is... What do you mean by death?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Losing the material body.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that you are losing every day, every moment. You are not today what you were yesterday, that you are losing. So, how can you defeat? You are, every moment you are being defeated.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There are some theories now. By turning the temperature, by cooling down little more than the body temperature, you can live longer.

Prabhupāda: Well, you can live little longer, but you cannot live forever. That is not possible.

Umāpati: They're freezing the body now, Prabhupāda, in the hopes that sometime in the future science will be able to make them come back to life.

Prabhupāda: That is all future. That is all future.

Hṛdayānanda: They take so much money for it.

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Hare Kṛṣṇa. We must have some relationship with God.

Karandhara: Their point is that they can only have faith in God. Their reason tells them there is no God.

Prabhupāda: There is no question of faith, it must be. Faith may be false. There must be. Because we have got relationship with everything, therefore ultimately everything is created by God.

Satsvarūpa: That requires faith.

Prabhupāda: It is not faith; it is fact. Faith may be wrong. Faith may be right or wrong, but fact is fact.

Karandhara: Well, when they say fact, they mean what they can perceive through their senses grossly.

Prabhupāda: Yes, with senses, senses. That is... Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that we have got relationship with God and senses, our senses. That is hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate (CC Madhya 19.170). When the senses are engaged with the Supreme, in relationship, that is called bhakti. It is a question of senses. It is not vague. We apply everything, we go with our senses. Just like the leg, we go, take our legs to the temple. We use our tongue for glorifying, for eating the prasādam. Every senses. That is bhakti. It is not sensuous, but engaging the senses in the service of the proprietor of the senses.

Karandhara: But they say that's a faith.

Prabhupāda: That's not faith, that's fact.

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, that is the process. Evolution means to come to that end, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is real evolution. If one misses the chance, then again falls down. But the natural progress is that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But ultimately he will come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes, ultimately everyone will come to Kṛṣṇa. Not Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but Kṛṣṇa. At the end of this world, devastation, they enter into the body of Kṛṣṇa. They remain there.

Hṛdayānanda: That wouldn't be very good for a devotee.

Prabhupāda: Huh? But they have no sense. These birds are feedies(?) or their bodily extension is so much. I think they're feedies(?).

Hṛdayānanda: They're what.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What? Very nice.

Prabhupāda: Just see how they are experienced. They're not afraid of the ocean, although they are very small. They know how to save him. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). Kṛṣṇa is there within the heart. They are giving, "Now get off." They immediately get off.

Hṛdayānanda: Boy. That's Viṣṇu within their heart?

Room Conversation with Latin Professor -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: I see. So... Oh, you have no seat? They are giving him? All right. So from Bhagavad-gītā we understand that Bha... Just like in this planet we are so many persons, or the President Nixon is the President. Similarly, in every planet there are living entities, and the President of the sun planet is called Vivasvān. So he was instructed by Kṛṣṇa long, long ago. In the higher planetary system, the time is different. That was proved when the Russian aeronautics were on the sky. In one hour twenty-five minutes, he went round the earth, twice or thrice, like that. So time is different. So the point is... Just like the sunshine is impersonal, the sun is localized, and the president of the sun globe is a person, similarly, the Absolute Truth is realized in three phases. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). The first realization is impersonal, then localized, and then personal. So ultimately, God is person. And that is Kṛṣṇa. So we are hearing directly from the Supreme Personality of Godhead about Godhead, and that is perfect knowledge. If you speak yourself about yourself, that is my perfect knowledge of yourself. And if I simply speculate that "Professor may be like this, like that," that is not perfect. I am speculating, but if you come to me, "Swamiji, I am like this," then my knowledge is perfect. Otherwise, I can go on speculating for millions of years. Still, my knowledge is imperfect. So we cannot manufacture God; neither we can speculate. That is not possible. But you can get some idea, but there is no possibility of getting perfect knowledge of God. God is unlimited. I am limited. So my speculative knowledge is limited. So how I can understand the unlimited by my limited knowledge? That is not possible. We can make little progress, and that is impersonal understanding. The perfect understanding is that He is person, all-powerful, all-mighty, all beautiful, all-wise, all..., everything perfect, six opulences: riches, strength, influence, beauty, knowledge and renouncement. These are the six opulences. And God is complete. This is conception of God.

Morning Walk -- December 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, no. That means Lenin wanted to become God. That's all. The God idea is there, but he cannot be God. Because he was under the laws of God, he died. He died. He could not save himself from death. Therefore he is not supreme authority. He accepted supreme authority, but he wanted himself to become the supreme authority. Now, when he died, he is not supreme authority. He is forced to die. Then there is another supreme authority.

Karandhara: Well, then they can say ultimately death is meaningless anyway.

Prabhupāda: Why meaningless? Then why you are afraid of death when I come to kill you?

Karandhara: Well, that it's meaningless doesn't mean I can't place some value on it at any given point.

Prabhupāda: Why meaningless? It has meaning. Then why you are fighting? Why you fought for Russian Revolution?

Karandhara: Well, they give the example like numbers. Numbers are only useful for a purpose, but actually they are meaningless.

Prabhupāda: The purpose is meaningless then. Then your purpose is meaningless.

Karandhara: Yes, they say ultimately everything is meaningless.

Prabhupāda: Then you are a rascal. You are working for meaningless things. Then you are a rascal. That's all. And that is my version, that you are a rascal number one.

Karandhara: Well, they say everyone can introduce their own meaning to whatever they want.

Morning Walk -- December 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Mad, madmen.

Karandhara: But his books are in colleges especially. Millions and millions of students accept his books as practically gospel.

Prabhupāda: What is the subject matter of the book?

Karandhara: Subject matter of his books, that life is ultimately absurd. There is no real meaning to it. We place our own meanings on it, but those are...

Prabhupāda: So you are trying... Why you are trying to explain it? Why you are trying to explain it?

Karandhara: Yes, actually he is trying to make reason out of the absurdity.

Prabhupāda: To prove absurd is his reason? That means absurd reason.

Karandhara: Well, that's what he ultimately realized, that everything is absurd. There is no use speaking, writing or even living.

Prabhupāda: No, no, the thing is that you are saying "absurd," I am saying, "not absurd." Who will settle up this? That is the... If you settle your own affair. I settle my own affair. So who will settle up, whether I am right, you are right?

Śrutakīrti: It will be settled at death.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś ca. The death is equally acceptable by you and me, but... And it is also a fact you don't want to die; I also don't want to die. Then there is authority.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No. We admit the energy is not created. But energy comes from the energetic. Energy. Just like you may become angry. So that anger energy is there in you, but it is not manifested. So there are certain energies which sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. So this energy, material energy, is of God. This energy is sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. But there is another energy which is eternal. That is spiritual world. That is our... This is scientific study. (break)

Prajāpati: They will say that such talk may be of use in a religious sphere, but it has no use ultimately in terms of science.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere it is useful because in scientific world also, you follow leader, Sir Isaac Newton, Professor Einstein. Why do you follow? There must be a leader.

Karandhara: Well, they just use the leaders as springboards. They don't accept them as absolute authorities.

Prabhupāda: No, it may be springboard, but you have to take their help. Because it is springboard, you cannot neglect. What do you think?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you have to take help.

Prajāpati: They feel great accomplishment when they can disprove something that these leaders are proposing.

Prabhupāda: No, if the leader is rascal, then it is accepted. But a leader required, that's a fact. But if you select a wrong leader, then you are misguided. But leader is required. Just like to get birth, there must be a father.

Page Title:Ultimately (Conversations 1967 - 1973)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:22 of Nov, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=43, Let=0
No. of Quotes:43