Ultimate (Conversations 1974 - 1975)

Expressions researched:
"ultimate"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: ultimate not "ultimate goal" not "ultimate truth" not "ultimate knowledge" not "ultimate source" not "ultimate realization" not "ultimate cause" not "ultimate end" not "ultimate destination" not "ultimate issue" not "ultimate liberation"

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 10, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: And who kept the ocean? You go on.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: By nature.

Prabhupāda: Then you come to somebody. That is foolishness. Then nature is not ultimate. Kṛṣṇa is the ultimate. Because you cannot see Kṛṣṇa, therefore you say, "Nature."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Kṛṣṇa says, "Nature is under My control."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is just like an equilibrium, Śrīla Prabhupāda. In science it is called equilibrium, means this on and off...

Prabhupāda: It is called cakra. What is that? In Bhagavad-gītā it is said, brahma-cakra, brahma-cakra. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. That is realization, that in every action there is brahman. The beginning, by eating food grains, you become strong. The animals become strong. Then, when you become strong, you perform yajña, and from yajña, there is cloud, and from cloud, there is rain, and from rain, there is food grains. This is the cakra.

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: I don't believe your documentation; you do not believe my documentation. Then let us come to reason. The reason is, as we see varieties—one is better than the other—there must be the best. And that is God. So far documentation is concerned, you do not believe my documentation, I do not believe your documentation. Then? How the conclusion will come? As far as possible, by reasoning. Reasoning is that we find one is better than the other. So go on finding; if you have got power, you will see that the best. (aside:) Give me that. This is reasoning. As the child has a father, the father has his father, the grandfather has his father, then there must be some ultimate father. How can you deny this? By experience you see. Suppose a great-grandchild does not see the great-grandfather, does it mean that he was not there? The reason is as everyone has got father, father's father, his father, his father, his, so go on, find out the ultimate father.

Satsvarūpa: They've just concocted that, that long ago there was no intelligent human life, and that...

Prabhupāda: That is your concoction. We get so many literatures. Huh? The Bhāgavata literature, five thousand years old. You have no history beyond three thousand years. Neither even at the present moment you have got such nice literature. When you say that people are very much advanced, who has produced such literature? Where is a book like Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or Bhagavad-gītā, whole world? If you say that this book was written, say 1,500 years ago, but where is a similar literature in any other part of the world? Eh? Is there a similar literature? Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa...

Morning Walk -- January 23, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Bad condition, good condition, that is another thing. But you get it. You get it. Bad condition, good condition, that is my consideration, but things are available. Even the best apartment in India, that is not a good apartment for America. This is simply my mental concoction: "This is good; that is bad." I am thinking, "It is the best;" another may think, "Oh, it is lowest." The hog is thinking stool is very nice food, and I am thinking, "What is this nonsense thing?" So "best" and "good", it is simply mental concoction, it has no value. Just like these western people, what is their ultimate standard of best, nobody knows. Nobody knows. Just like hundred years before, there was no skyscraper building, but now even best skyscraper building is not best. So where is the standard of best and... It is all mental concoction.

Sudāmā: Just like in New York, at one time the Empire State Building was the biggest; now they have built two buildings that are the biggest in the world now.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now someday it will be lowest.

Satsvarūpa: Yes, already in Chicago they're building one, a Sears building.

Bali Mardana: Bigger.

Prabhupāda: So what is the standard of best and lowest. There is no standard. This is called māyā.

Bali Mardana: Many philosophers have tried to define what is the best.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is philosophy. Darśana. Darśana means search out what is the ultimate. Jñānī ca bharatarṣabha (BG 7.16). Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtino 'rjuna, ārto 'rthārthī jñānī ca bharatarṣabha, arto 'rthārthī jijñāsur jñānī ca bharatarṣabha. These are philosophers. Even the ārtaḥ, even a distressed person, he is praying to the Supreme Authority, "My God, I am very much hungry. Kindly give me my daily bread." He's also philosopher, because he's searching out the Absolute Truth. He's philosopher. Not this Freud rascal, elaborating how to have sex life. So this kind of philosopher, they... What is called? In Bengali: vane haye śṛgāla rājā.(?) "In the jungle a jackal becomes a king." So because western people, they have no... They're all less than śūdras. So a Freud has become a philosopher. Vane haye śṛgāla rājā. "In the jungle, the jackal has become a king." That's all. What is knowledge there? It is that... The whole western world is going on for industry, for making money, eat, drink, be merry, wine and women. That's... They're all less than śūdras and caṇḍālas. This is the first time attempt is being made to make them human beings. Don't mind. I am using very strong words. That is the fact.

Hṛdayānanda: It's true. Yes.

Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So how you will adjust Kṛṣṇa philosophy and Buddha philosophy?

Guest: Well it's just a different uh, approach. But I don't think there's any fundamental difference. I mean if you, if you, uh, have the ultimate consciousness in one, you have it in the other, too.

Prabhupāda: So there is difference. Buddha philosophy does not accept God.

Guest: Yeah. It's a atheistic approach.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest: It's a atheistic approach.

Prabhupāda: No soul, no God. Our Kṛṣṇa philosophy is God, soul, and Vedānta philosophy, that is also God. So Buddha philosophy different from Vedānta philosophy and Kṛṣṇa philosophy.

Guest: The approach is different, yes.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Guest: The approach is different.

Prabhupāda: Approach? The end is different. Now how you'll adjust Buddha philosophy and Kṛṣṇa philosophy?

Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Then explain what do you mean by nirvāṇa.

Guest: Well it's the ultimate state of consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Where is nirvāṇa when you do not know the meaning of nirvāṇa? Nirvāṇa means finished.

Guest: Uh, yes. I think that...

Prabhupāda: Nirvāṇa means everything finished, void.

Guest: Etymologically it means "no wind."

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest: "No wind."

Prabhupāda: No wind?

Guest: The root of the word, I believe, means "no wind." There's no wind.

Prabhupāda: No. You can derive many meanings, but nirvāṇa means, just like flame is there, extinguished, finished.

Guest: That's not the way I understand nirvāṇa.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They worship Viṣṇu. They worship Viṣṇu.

Indian man (2): They worship Viṣṇu but their prime deity is Śaṅkara, and not...

Prabhupāda: No, no. They worship five mūrtis. So they give equal im... Because Śiva is also not ultimate. Śaṅkarācārya's thesis is "Ultimately, the Absolute Truth is nirākāra." Not even Śiva. Therefore, either Śiva or Viṣṇu or Gaṇeśa, the same thing, same thing. They are not sticking with the Śiva form. They worship Viṣṇu form, also Gaṇeśa, as it is recommended in that book. (break) The difference is there. That difference is there. But we have to take which is correct.

Indian man (2): According to their realizations, you see.

Prabhupāda: No, no. We have to take which is correct.

Indian man (2): Who can take... You see, I... (break)

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Any education. You train a child to the standard of that education and he will develop his intelligence. A child who does not know what is what, the father says "This is... My dear child, it is watch." Once, twice, thrice, you call, "Watch, watch, watch," he learns, "This is watch." Jaya, Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi, aside) So one has to awaken the intelligence. So that supreme intelligence is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When one comes to the point of supreme intelligence, that is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like a rose flower, when it comes to the full blooming stage, it is very beautiful, fragrant, like that. So when a living entity comes to the understanding of his constitutional position, what he is actually, and acts like that, that is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then it is full development. That is called buddhi-yogam. Buddhi is there, intelligence is there, and when it is fully developed for understanding Kṛṣṇa, that is called buddhi-yogam. Yes. Buddhi-yogam. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is described, buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi taṁ yena mām upayānti. Buddhi-yogam means the intelligence, but... Don't come near. The intelligence which gets the living entity back to home, back to Godhead. That is called buddhi-yogam. Any yoga system means connecting link with the Supreme. When we speak of buddhi-yogam, that is the ultimate yoga. That is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gata antar-ātmanā (BG 6.47). All different types of yoga practice, the most important and topmost yoga practice is to think of Kṛṣṇa always within oneself. That is being practiced, Hare Kṛṣṇa. The topmost yoga system. (break) You are experienced. Try to understand this philosophy and give it to your country. Your country is a most important country in Europe. Roman civilization.

Italian Man (1): Yes. Yes.

Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:

Guest (2): What is the ultimate aim of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Yes, ultimate aim is that there is spirit and matter. As there is material world, there is spiritual world also. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ avyaktaḥ avyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). The spiritual world is eternal. The material world is temporary. We are spirit soul. We are eternal. Therefore our business is to go back to the spiritual world, not that we remain in the material world and change body from bad to worse or worse to bad, er, good. That is not our business. That is a disease. Our healthy life is to enjoy eternal life. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). So our human life should be utilized for attaining that perfectional stage—not to get any more this material body which we have to change. This is the aim of life.

Guest (3): Is that perfection possible in one life?

Prabhupāda: Yes, in one moment, if you agree. Kṛṣṇa says that

sarva-dharmān parityajya

mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja

ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo

mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ

(BG 18.66)

We change our body on account of sinful activities, but if we surrender to Kṛṣṇa and take Kṛṣṇa consciousness, immediately you are on the spiritual platform.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yajñārthe karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). That civilization is yajñārthe karma. You work, but for yajña. Yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ. (Hindi) ...modern science... (Hindi) ...This is mistake.

Indian Man (4): This is not the ultimate solution.

Prabhupāda: No, that is not.

Dr. Patel: Ultimate solution, nobody knows.

Prabhupāda:

na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ

durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ

(SB 7.5.31)

They are captivated by the external energy. They think by material advancement they will make solution of all problems. That is not possible.

andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās

te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ

He does not know that he is bound up, hands and legs, by the laws of nature, and he is trying to solve it by his own method of material civilization. That is the mistake. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā (BG 3.27). They are all vimūḍhas, mūḍhas, duṣkṛtina, mūḍhas. (Hindi) (break) He asked me, "What is the conception of hell?" I said, "It is your London. By artificial way you have kept it as heaven. But otherwise, it is hell." So this was published.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Yogeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the way you've been describing our solutions to the problems of the world, they seem to be on two levels. One is the extended solution, that is to say, the ultimate solution of Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: No, there is no question of extended. You keep yourself in a limited solution. And then, when it is appreciated it will be automatically extended. You don't touch the extended. You become ideal civilized man. Others will follow.

Yogeśvara: Well, for example, ultimately, we want to live locally. These cities are not necessary.

Prabhupāda: No, you make the best use of a bad bargain. We shall depend more... Just like in New Vrindaban. They are coming to the city for preaching. So not absolutely we can abstain immediately because we have been dependent so long, many, many lives. You cannot. But the ideal should be introduced gradually. And make it perfect more and more and more and more. But there is possibility. Possibility if you live locally and make your arrangement, you get your foods... The real necessity is, bodily necessity is, eating, sleeping, mating and defending. This is necessity. So if you can eat locally, you can sleep locally, you can have your sex life also locally and you can defend locally, then what is the wrong? These are the necessities. We are not stopping this. We are not stopping, "No more sex life." That is nonsense, another nonsense. You must have. Marry. That's all. So you can marry locally and live. Where is the difficulty? Defend. If somebody comes to attack, there must be men to defend. And eating and sleeping. Where is your difficulty? Manage locally, as far as possible.

Room Conversation with Monsieur Roost, Hatha-yogi -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

M. Roost: I think so. But this, the ultimate, is very, very far for European people, I think. It's like in the yoga of Patañjali, it's eight-part.

Prabhupāda: Aṣṭāṅga-yoga, aṣṭāṅga.

M. Roost: Yes, aṣṭāṅga-yoga. The last part of the evolution. I think first we must through the body find the balance. With the balance of our body, we can go after the balance of our ego, of cessation, and after this, perhaps, we are able to sacrifice all to the Lord.

Prabhupāda: Sacrifice for whom?

M. Roost: Yes. Without intention.

Satsvarūpa: The Lord, he said.

M. Roost: Without personal intention.

Prabhupāda: I'll speak.

Satsvarūpa: I'm sorry.

Prabhupāda: Sacrifice. Intention means personal intention. Otherwise, intention to satisfy the Lord, that is required. That is bhakti. We are not intentionless, but purified intention.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: What is that translation?

Pradyumna: "Arjuna said: You are the Supreme Brahman, the ultimate, the supreme abode and purifier, the Absolute Truth and the eternal divine person. You are the primal God, transcendental and original, and You are unborn and the all-pervading beauty. All the great sages such as Nārada, Asita, Devala, and Vyāsa proclaim this of You, and now You Yourself are declaring it to me."

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa says, and He is confirmed by Vyāsadeva, Asita, Nārada. This is the process. We do not accept everyone says "I am avatāra, I am God." We don't accept. But because it is accepted by the ācāryas, therefore we accept. Just like the same example I can give: I do not know who is my father, and many people will come, "I am your father." So we do not accept them. When mother says, "He is your father," then accept. That is final. I have no experience. It is beyond my experience, because father existed before my birth. So beyond my experience. So I am finding out who is my father, and so many people are coming, "I am your father." No. But as soon as the mother says, "No, no, this man is your father," then we accept. Then our business finished. Then we get experience. Father is beyond my experience, but when we receive the knowledge through the mother, then we get experience. Arjuna says that: paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12), "You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Not only You are saying, but You are accepted by these authorities." That is all. I cannot get my experience of God; that is not possible. God comes, He says, and Kṛṣṇa comes and He is accepted by all the great ācāryas, then our business is perfect. So give them prasāda.

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Then what is his silence? Silence means don't talk. If you prefer silence, then don't talk. (French)

Yogeśvara: He suggests, "Well, In that case, if we're going to discuss the Absolute Truth, then you can say that the ultimate is..."

Prabhupāda: But he raised that Absolute Truth is non-dual.

Yogeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Non-dual.

Yogeśvara: Tat tvam asi. He's saying, "We are that."

Prabhupāda: So then, then why he raised the question of Absolute Truth, non-dualism, neti neti? This is the discussion of Absolute Truth. So why he says, "For the time being, let us become silent"?

Bhagavān: Yes, he's saying... Oh, it's hard. In other words, he's saying, "Let's get rid of everything that's not the Absolute Truth, and not talk about actually what is the Absolute Truth yet."

Yogeśvara: Yeah, that's the point.

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: Just like we're saying that all the ācāryas have accepted Kṛṣṇa, he says so also in the Christian religion, all the priests and all the Christians have said that Christ is the ultimate, as it is said in the Evangel. (French)

Prabhupāda: Yes, we have several times explained that Christ says that he is the son of God. So we don't deny it.

Karandhara: The point he's making, Prabhupāda, is that...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Karandhara: What he's saying is that outwardly, they all profess allegiance to Jesus, but they, it's seen that they disagree with one another on many points. They have diversified opinions about what Jesus meant about this and what does life signify.

Yogeśvara: And therefore, for him, he doesn't even consider that question, whether Christ is the son of God, whether he's not the son of God. For him, it's a secondary problem.

Prabhupāda: Now, now, what is his problem. That he did never disclose.

Yogeśvara: Well, he says the problem is the art of living, what is the best way to live.

Prabhupāda: So he has got his opinion. I have got my own opinion. How we'll agree? We say that you remain in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everything will be solved. Does he agree? (French)

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Nitāi: Brahmaṇaḥ aham...

brahmaṇo hi pratiṣṭhāham

amṛtasyāvyayasya ca

śaśvatasya ca dharmasya

sukhasyaikāntikasya ca

"I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is the constitutional position of ultimate happiness, and which is immortal, imperishable and eternal."

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Nitāi: "The constitution of Brahman..."

Prabhupāda: Oh, oh. You have to explain.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: I'll get another.

Bhagavān: In the meantime, we can translate from here.

Jyotirmayī: He's asking when, how old are the oldest of the Vedic scriptures.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jyotirmayī: He's asking how old are the...

Yogeśvara: How old are the Vedas?

Prabhupāda: Vedas?

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Brahman. Yes, He is Para-brahman. Para-brahman. Brahman is realized in three angles of vision: impersonal Brahman and localized Brahman, Paramātmā in the heart, and personal Brahman. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Brahman because ultimately God is person. Yes. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. The exact Sanskrit word is vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvam (SB 1.2.11). The Absolute Truth is described by the person who knows the Absolute Truth in three ways: brahmeti, the impersonal Brahman, paramātmeti, the localized Paramātmā, and Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is the ultimate feature of God, full with all six opulences, the richest, the strongest, the most famous, the most wise, the most renounced and most beautiful. These are the six features of the Personality of Godhead.

Pater Emmanuel: That's very good.

Prabhupāda: And His being Absolute, His name is not different from Him. The name and the form and the quality of God, they are all Absolute. Therefore chanting His name means associating with God. So when one associates with God, gradually He becomes godly. And when he is fully purified, then he becomes associate of God. (German)

Pater Emmanuel: (German)

German devotee: (translating for Pater Emmanuel) But we can understand the name of God only in a negative way.

Prabhupāda: No. God has unlimited potencies, and therefore He has got unlimited names.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: And if you go beyond the sense perception, that is perfection.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That will be Mādhava Prabhu's duty.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Then on the ninth chapter there will be a topic, "The Ultimate Research," (indistinct) research.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That...

Prabhupāda: Ultimate research is to find out the brain.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Absolute. Then there is no more defect. Everything is perfect. That is stated, dhāmnā svena sadā nirasta-kuhakaṁ paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. Nirasta-kuhakam, where there is no defect, that is vaikuṇṭha-dhāma. Dhāmnā svena nirasta-kuhakaṁ paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. The absolute truth, we offer our respectful... That is the beginning of Bhāgavatam. Nirasta-kuhakam, where these defects cannot enter. Just like sunshine, in the sun, darkness cannot enter. There is no possibility of darkness going there. Is it possible? So similarly, in Kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa sūrya-sama; māyā andhakāra (CC Madhya 22.31), there is no question of defect there.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Rūpānuga: Read that other verse.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In this respect I wanted to phase this on (indistinct) that ultimate research, that brahma-jijñāsā.

Prabhupāda: Brahma-jijñāsā. That is beginning of knowledge, what is the absolute truth?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is the research topic.

Prabhupāda: Mm. Now this subject matter should be taken up seriously in the human form of life, that is the suggestion. Atha, atha, ataḥ, now you have got this human form of life, therefore you discuss about the absolute truth. Paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. Yes?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Next one is, next chapter is "Matter Originates from Life." That one of Dāsa (?) Prabhu's. And on the eleventh chapter there will be (indistinct)...

Prabhupāda: Matter is a manifestation of life's energy. We can daily experience. The matter, hair is growing. Cut, again growing. Why? Because there is life. Dead body, hair never grows. Is it not?

Mādhava: Well the scientists will say it's just recombination of matter.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, when there is body dead, no hair grows.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Nitāi: "Arjuna said: You are the Supreme Brahmān, the ultimate, the supreme abode and purifier, the Absolute Truth and the eternal divine person. You are the primal God, transcendental and original. You are the unborn and the all-pervading beauty. All the great sages such as Nārada, Asita, Devala, and Vyāsa proclaim this of You, and now You Yourself are declaring it to me."

Prabhupāda: Then? Purport? (break) Next verse?

Nitāi: "O Kṛṣṇa, I totally accept as truth all that You have told me. Neither the gods nor the demons, O Lord, know Thy personality."

Prabhupāda: Now here is the Arjuna's understanding, that "I accept You in total." Now some rascals are proclaiming that all the Bhagavad-gītās, they are, most of them are interpretation. But Arjuna says that "I accept everything what You have said." So whom you will accept, Arjuna or some rascal who is speaking that "There are so many interpolation. They can be rejected"? Whom you will accept as authority? Arjuna says that "I accept whatever You have said in toto." If you accept Arjuna because he has heard from Kṛṣṇa, then you accept Kṛṣṇa or you understand Kṛṣṇa.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Acyutānanda: Well, we say, "What is the difference between matter and spirit?"

Ravīndra-svarūpa: Yes, we argued all these points with him, but still, his ultimate...

Acyutānanda: So actually all these people are just word-jugglers who want to keep their position with the government.

Prajāpati: They have government.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: Yes, and that's what they do.

Prajāpati: They have grants. They write books.

Acyutānanda: Just to keep their, their...

Prajāpati: But the books are being read.

Pañcadraviḍa: There's a saying that.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Acyutānanda: Cinmayananda Swami. He's a professional swami, and he confuses all the people very talentedly so that they all clap. If you ask them after... Prabhupāda has asked them, "What did he say?" "He said very nicely." But they can't say anything.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur:

Yaśodānandana: ...which he is satisfied with, we also have a standard of happiness which we are satisfied with, as devotees. Could there be... Who is to say there is not a higher standard of happiness, higher than what we think is the ultimate happiness? See, we are thinking that to become liberated from this material body and go back to home is the highest happiness, and we are feeling this is our standard of happiness.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Because the happiness which you are enjoying these are not actually satisfying. You are not actually satisfied, therefore you want transfer of happiness from this field to that field. That means you are not actually happy. Otherwise, why these rascals they are enjoining the same vagina at home and why they go to see vagina in the theater? The vagina is there, but they think that to see vagina at home is not so good, but to see vagina on the stage is better. That is all. Disappointment. You'll see the same vagina, here and there. You'll go there by purchasing ticket. That is your misfortune.

Trivikrama: But the devotee is ātmārāma.

Prabhupāda: Yes. All these Paris big men, they go to see the vagina at night, purchasing ticket fifty dollars. All big, big men. In Paris there are so many clubs.

Devotee: The Lido.

Room Conversation with Kim Cornish -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Amogha:

brahmaṇo hi pratiṣṭhāham

amṛtasyāvyayasya ca

śāśvatasya ca dharmasya

sukhasyaikāntikasya ca

Translation: "And I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is the constitutional position of ultimate happiness, and which is immortal, imperishable and eternal."

Prabhupāda: Purport?

Amogha: Purport: "The constitution of Brahman is immortality, imperishability, eternity, and happiness. Brahman is the beginning of transcendental realization; Paramātmā, the Supersoul, is the middle, the second stage in transcendental realization; and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the ultimate realization of the Absolute Truth. Therefore both Paramātmā and the impersonal Brahman are within the Supreme Person. It is explained in the seventh chapter that material nature is a manifestation of the inferior energy of the Supreme Lord. The Lord impregnates the inferior material nature with the fragments of the superior nature, and that is the spiritual touch in the material nature. When a living entity, conditioned by this material nature, begins the cultivation of spiritual knowledge, he elevates himself from the position of material existence and gradually rises up to the Brahman conception of the Supreme. This attainment of the Brahman conception of life is the first stage of self-realization.

Morning Walk -- May 17, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: They... You do not take the right information. Right information is with us. That you refuse to take. Your information is zero. Compiling of zeros does not make any value. It is all zero. Take information from us. Then it will be beneficial. You are taking information from all universe except our this solid information given by Kṛṣṇa. That is your policy. Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. You have read this verse? "The mūḍha, rascal, he does not know the ultimate background is I am." That he does not know. What is the use of his information? And in the Vedas it is said yam eva viditvā sarvam idam... There is a mantra, that "Only understanding Kṛṣṇa, you understand everything." Yam eva viditvā sarvam idaṁ vedituṁ bhavanti.

Amogha: But how can we understand all this science and technology just by understanding Kṛṣṇa, just by one book?

Prabhupāda: Not one book. You cannot read them throughout your whole life, there are so many books.

Amogha: I don't think they have any argument.

Prabhupāda: What argument? They are fools, rascals. What argument?

Morning Walk -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Which way? (break)

Hari-śauri: Their argument is, then, if God is there and He is actually the ultimate controller, and He is motivating everything to happen, then I can just sit back and do nothing and things will happen.

Prabhupāda: No, you should work for the result. Karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana. But do not think that because you working very nicely, the result will come. That is the... Because it is not in your hand. Therefore, karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana: "Your duty is to go on working, but don't expect the result as you desire." That will never happen unless it is sanctioned. Just like a man is suffering. Your duty is to appoint nice physician, nice medicine. But is there any guarantee that he will live? Why does he die? You can say that "I have given the best medicine and best medical treatment." Still, he dies. What is the cause? What do they say? What is the cause?

Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone. Everyone who... That is the statement. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). This class of men, they do not recognize God. Who? Those who are sinful, rascals, lowest of the mankind. Such people do not recognize God. Mūḍhas. (indistinct) educated. No, that education means false education. Real education is taken away by māyā. Real education means to understand God. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). If one does not understand what is God, his education is useless. It has no meaning. What is that education? Will that education save him from death? Then what is the value of his education? Your real problem is birth, death, old age, and disease. Can this material education stop it? Is the scientist able to stop one's old age? And does anyone, man, any man, wants to become old? No, nobody wants. Everyone wants to keep himself youthful. But can the science stop this, that he will not become old? He must become old.

Then where is the education value? You cannot solve your problem, so what is the meaning of education? Education, knowledge, means you have solved your problems. They are trying to do that, temporary problem. But ultimate problem they cannot solve. Therefore the value of this education is useless. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). It is simply laboring after something, that's all.

Australian devotee 2: They say that the value of their education is that very soon they will be able to overcome birth, death, disease, and old age, that they almost have the solution. They are freezing people's bodies...

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Well, incarnation of God and God, there is no difference.

Yogi Bhajan: That's it. Also there is a fundamental message in that, that as God created everyone, God created all of us, and in Sikh dharma God, whatever we want to call it, ultimate reality, beyond sunya-samadha, the truth, and Lord Kṛṣṇa in His incarnation taught, Lord Rāma taught. And what our problem at this time at the humanity is: the humanity is divided in many forms. And it is the inner hatred which people want to expel (spell?) out.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say that every, at least, religious sect... I don't say others, nonreligious or agnostic. There are Christian, Mohammedan, Hindu, Sikhs, or any religious system, they have accepted that there is God, Supreme Truth.

Yogi Bhajan: No, there is one fundamental thing which this movement may not know. In Dasan Grantha, Guru Govind Singh wrote down Kṛṣṇa avatāra.

Prabhupāda: Avatāra...

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: How they will understand? First of all let them explain what does he mean by soul? That they cannot explain. They take mind as the ultimate, that's all.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. And they see whether or not the mind is moving like this or like this or like this or like that, and then they have a gauge which says, "This is perfect." So they're seeing... They're judging whether or not...

Prabhupāda: But we say, "Any position on the mental platform, it is all nonsense." Mano-rathena sato dhavato bahiḥ.

Harikeśa: So the mind of a devotee is based on the activities of his spiritual practices.

Prabhupāda: Mind of a devotee is upon Kṛṣṇa. So what they will understand, that mind is in Kṛṣṇa? What they will understand?

Harikeśa: So according to different transcendental emotions, the mind will be agitated or calm or...?

Prabhupāda: It is not mind. It is spirit soul. You also do not understand.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dharmādhyakṣa: So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, all these social problems, then, in society are basically caused by them denying God. That is the ultimate...

Prabhupāda: No, because they are asses. Why don't you say like that? (laughter) Because they are big asses and people are following them. That is the misfortune. They are simply bluffing that "We are very great." Just like these scientists, they simply bluffing that "We went to the moon planet. We are doing this, doing that," and taking large salaries, but they are asses. And people are also asses. Therefore they accept, "Oh, he is a big man, cheating us very nicely."

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, theologians also say that God is the... (break) ...person He is.

Prabhupāda: So we can describe. (break) Let them take it. If they cannot describe, then take the description from us. We can give. That is knowledge. Nīcād apy uttamā vidyā strī-ratnaṁ duṣkulād api. Why they should hesitate, "No, no, why shall I take from him? He is a Hindu." Or "He is a Muslim." What is this? Knowledge has to be taken wherever it is available.

Morning Walk -- July 1, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: It doesn't require. He is a devotee. That's all right. There are grades of devotee, but on the whole, a devotee is very exalted person. Just like gopīs. Nobody can be compared with the gopīs. There are so many grades of devotees, but they are ultimate. And amongst the gopīs, Rādhārāṇī. So there is no comparison, no more... Even Kṛṣṇa is defeated there. Kṛṣṇa became Caitanya Mahāprabhu to understand the devotion of Rādhārāṇī. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. (break) (About something by the path:) ...queen. Elizabeth? No. Queen or king?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there a plaque there?

Brahmānanda: It's a symbol for something.

Harikeśa: They usually make justice to be like that. (break)

Satsvarūpa: Allegorical.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1975, Chicago:

Satsvarūpa: We're going to do some of the chapters in installments in Back to Godhead. We're going to do Darwin as soon as possible, in a month or two. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...philosophy is the ultimate, Vedānta. Vedānta philosophy. And Bhāgavata is the commentary on the Vedānta philosophy. (break) ...Darwin's theory. Wherefrom he begins?

Jayatīrtha: He begins in the ocean. He says that some fish-type animal climbed out of the ocean and began to breathe the air.

Prabhupāda: Then wherefrom the ocean came?

Devotee: He doesn't say.

Śrī Govinda: In the beginning on the planet there was great turbulence and the oceans were stirring, and then there was some lightning charge.

Prabhupāda: Wherefrom the lightning came? And wherefrom the ocean came? Where his philosophy is? It is a speculation.

Śrī Govinda: It all began from a primeval explosion.

Prabhupāda: Then same question, wherefrom the explosion came?

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Yes, by Kṛṣṇa consciousness you achieve the goal of life. In the present condition we are accepting one body, and we are dying after a few days. Then accept another body. And that body is according to your activity. There are 8,400,000 different types of body. You can get any one of them. You'll have to accept one body. That is called transmigration of the soul. So if one is under this consciousness that "I am eternal. Why I am changing body? How to solve it?" that is intelligence. And not to work like cats and dogs and die, that is not intelligence. One who makes solution of this problem, he is intelligent. So therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the ultimate solution of all problems of life.

Sandy Nixon: What transformations does one undergo on the path of Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: No transformation. The consciousness is there. It is now filled with all rubbish things. You have to cleanse this, and then Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Just like water. Water is, by nature, clear, transparent. But when it is filled up with rubbish things, it is muddy. You cannot see very clearly. But if you filter it, all muddy things, dirty things, then again comes to the original position, clear, transparent water.

Sandy Nixon: Does one function better in society as a result of affiliation with Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: What is the meaning?

Ravīndra-svarūpa: Is he a better citizen?

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Devotee: I was reading. There's a group called A.A., Alcoholic Anonymous, and they have a treatment for curing this disease. And it's the only one that's been successful. And one of the initial steps in achieving success in this method of theirs is that one agrees to the possibility of an ultimate reality or God. And because of that, they've had success in curing alcoholism.

Prabhupāda: What is that process?

Devotee: Well, it's a self-analysis. It doesn't go very far, but at least they accept that God exists and...

Prabhupāda: Self-analysis, that requires intelligence. But our process is, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." There is no difficulty. So it is better than A.A.

Devotee: Yes, much better. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: So why should you bother about that process? You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Is that all right?

Devotee: That's fine. (end)

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: The Śaivites, the Śaṅkarācārya.

Prof. Hopkins: Śaṅkarācārya, I know he is.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śaṅkarācārya's theory is the ultimate, the Absolute Truth is impersonal. And one can imagine a personal form for the benefit of the worshiper.

Prof. Hopkins: But there are some worshipers of Śiva who would be personalists.

Prabhupāda: No.

Prof. Hopkins: You would deny that.

Prabhupāda: They are all impersonalists. They are pañcopāsana. Pañcopāsana means the ultimate, Absolute Truth is impersonal and Śaṅkarācārya recommended that you cannot worship the impersonal, so you conceive a personal form. So that he recommended five: the sun-god, Lord Śiva, Durgā, and Gaṇeśa, and? What else? And Viṣṇu.

Prof. Hopkins: Viṣṇu. Pañca (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: But after you are per..., become, you are perfect, then you merge into the impersonal. That is Śaṅkara.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prof. Hopkins: So you would... You would say that those, those smārtas say, and I know smārta brāhmaṇas who are worshipers of Viṣṇu. You would say they still are impersonalists in some ultimate sense because at some point they would deny...

Prabhupāda: No, it is very difficult to pick them out. Most of the so-called Vaiṣṇavas, they are impersonalists.

Prof. Hopkins: Some, I suspect, are more Vaiṣṇavas than they are smārtas.

Prabhupāda: So, satataṁ kīrtayanto mām?

Brahmānanda:

satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ

yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ

namasyantaś ca māṁ bhaktyā

nitya-yuktā upāsate

(BG 9.14)

"Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with great determination, bowing down before Me, these great souls perpetually worship Me with devotion."

Prabhupāda: Perpetually. It is not that I am worshiping now and when I am perfect I become one. That is impersonal.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Prof. Hopkins: At some point I suppose they would almost have to be because to be an impersonalist you would have to deny the ultimate reality of phenomenon, which would make you a Māyāvādī.

Prabhupāda: They accept this form of God as māyā. Therefore we call them Māyāvādī.

Prof. Hopkins: Any form of God, including the Puruṣa. So that your, your central existence, or certainly one of your central existences would be that the ultimate reality is personal, that it is known as Viṣṇu, possessing all qualities.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Bhāgavatam:

vadanti tat tattva vidas

tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam

brahmeti paramātmeti

bhagavān iti śabdyate

(SB 1.2.11)

Human life is meant for understanding the tattva. Then the question will be what is that tattva or ultimate truth? And that is described. Tattva is realized in three phases: Brahman, impersonal Brahman; Paramātmā, localized Paramātmā; and Bhagavān.

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: So similarly, there may be others who are still advanced. Therefore the most advanced is God. This should be the psychology. As we see there is difference between dogs and hogs and man, so go on. Search out. So when you find out the most intelligent person, then he is God. (break) ...parataraṁ nānyat. That is statement of Bhagavad-gītā: "No more intelligent. Here, ultimate. I am God." So from psychological point of view how they can deny God?

Yadubara: No one is teaching that in this big university. Therefore the students are very discouraged, depressed.

Prabhupāda: Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Paramaḥ, paramaḥ means the Supreme. Our definition of God is that supreme in every respect. What man can do, the dog cannot do. What the dog can do, the cat cannot do. What the cat can do, the rat cannot do. So we see so many differences. Therefore there must be others who are more intelligent than man. That is demigod. And there must be others most intelligent than the demigods. In this way when you come to the final, that is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Go on finding out more, more, more. When you come to the final, that is God or Kṛṣṇa. So we take instruction from Him. Therefore we are better than the so-called university professors.

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: The same logic, "Cheerfully be hanged." That's all. As soon as there is some difficult subject, they give up. And they speculate on some nonsense thing. That's all. This is their education. Education means atyantika-duḥkha-nivṛtti, the ultimate solution of all unhappiness. That is education, not that after coming to some extent, "No, you can die happily." And what is duhkha, unhappiness? That is presented by Kṛṣṇa: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi duḥkha-doṣānu... (BG 13.9). These are your unhappiness. Try to solve it. And that they are carefully avoiding. They cannot stop death, neither birth, nor old age, nor disease. And during the short period of life, birth and death, they are making big, big buildings, and next time he is becoming one rat within the buildings. (laughter) Nature. You cannot avoid the nature's law. As you cannot avoid death, similarly, nature will give you another body. Become a tree in this university. Stand up for five thousand years. You wanted to be naked. Now nobody will object. You stand here naked.

Bahulāśva: They do that also. They have a fad now. It's called streakers.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore their punishment is to become tree, to cat, dog, like that. That they cannot explain, why there is cat life, dog life, human life, rich(?) life. That they cannot do. All big questions, they have avoided. And they remain perpetually a rascal. That is their education. Mūḍha, Kṛṣṇa says, mūḍha, narādhama: "Lowest of the mankind." Human life was meant for real education. They remain the same rascal and dies very happily. Mūḍhas. (break)

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

Paramahaṁsa: The only difficulty is that if one person uses the atomic weapon, that means entire, it would be entire waste of mankind. So everyone's afraid of using the ultimate.

Prabhupāda: Well, anyway, they must be used. There is no doubt about it. Therefore we can say there will be war. It is no astrology. It is natural conclusion.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Common sense.

Paramahaṁsa: That'd mean total destruction.

Prabhupāda: Well, total or partial, that we shall see. But they must be used.

Bahulāśva: Now they like to blow them up in the ground. The scientists like to play by blowing them up in the ground.

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But they may say, "That is not practical, because we will starve to death with such knowledge."

Prabhupāda: Then... Then you are useless. Because you cannot go to the ultimate point of education, therefore your education is useless.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But then they will ask, "You will come and bring me food?"

Prabhupāda: Yes, I will give you food. Food is there. You are not creating food. It is... From the earth it is grown.

Brahmānanda: But we have to work very hard; otherwise we won't get money for buying food.

Prabhupāda: No. You work a very slight three months in a year and get all food. Food is there; milk is there; land is there. You have to work.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is it possible to take the mass of crowlike people and give them the higher taste?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Press Conference -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: And purport?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Purport. "Kṛṣṇa and the Supreme Personality of Godhead are identical. Therefore Lord Kṛṣṇa is referred to as Bhagavān throughout the Gītā. Bhagavān is the ultimate in the Absolute Truth. Absolute Truth is realized in three phases of understanding, namely Brahman, or the impersonal, all-pervasive spirit; Paramātmā, or the localized aspect of the Supreme within the heart of all living entities; and Bhagavān, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Kṛṣṇa. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, this conception of the Absolute Truth is explained thus:

vadanti tat tattva-vidas

tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam

brahmeti paramātmeti

bhagavān iti śabdyate

(SB 1.2.11)

'The Absolute Truth is realized in three phases of understanding by the knower of the Absolute Truth, and all of them are identical. Such phases of the Absolute Truth are expressed as Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān.' (Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, First Canto, Second Chapter, eleventh verse.) These three divine aspects can be explained by the example of the sun, which also has three different aspects, namely the sunshine, the sun's surface and the sun planet itself. One who understands the sunshine only is the preliminary student. One who understands the sun's surface is further advanced. And one who can enter into the sun planet is the highest. Ordinary students who are satisfied by simply understanding the sunshine, its universal pervasiveness and the glaring effulgence of its impersonal nature may be compared to those who can realize only the Brahman feature of the Absolute Truth. The student who has advanced still further can know the sun disc, which is compared to knowledge of the Paramātmā feature of the Absolute Truth.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Harikeśa: Actually, nobody cares about philosophy. Nobody follows philosophy.

Prabhupāda: No. He cares for death. That is the ultimate philosophy, that they have to die. Say, "I don't care for this order. I'll not die." Then your disobedience is all right. But you have to die. You have to become old man. How you can disobey?

Cyavana: So if death is imminent, then I should simply try to enjoy myself as long as I can.

Prabhupāda: Enjoy. What is that enjoyment if you are going to die?

Harikeśa: It's so incredible how crazy everything is.

Brahmānanda: Well, at least before I die, I can get as much pleasure as I can.

Prabhupāda: Nobody can, if he is actually afraid of death. Suppose if you are given a beautiful woman—"Enjoy, and as soon as you come out I will shoot you." (laughter) Will you enjoy?

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: No. That is not possible. You have already given good medicine, good physician. And why he is dying? You cannot do anything. That is your position. You may try to do, but that is futile. Ultimate is different.

Cyavana: So by giving him medicine, maybe I can give him a better chance...

Prabhupāda: "Maybe" can be, but it is not guaranteed. You cannot do anything.

Cyavana: But at least I should try.

Prabhupāda: Try. Foolishly you try whatever you like. That is another thing. But it is not under your control. You can try. That is your... Of course, you must try as a dutiful father, but you should know that you cannot take any guarantee or do anything, good or bad. That you have already said, "the destiny." That is prominent. That is prominent, not you.

Cyavana: The tendency of the humans...

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Then what is your definition of religion?

Professor: My definition of religion is ultimate..., which has to do with your ultimate concern. Ultimate concern. I mean, I can make religion out of... If my ultimate concern is money, then that is my religion, to put it that way. Or ideology and so forth... But it is my ultimate concern, what is my ultimate concern in life. What is my ultimate concern. Every man is religious. He's a homo religiosus, to put it in Latin. He's a religious being. Just as he wants to eat, he has to have religion.

Prabhupāda: So the transmigration of the soul, you take it as religion. It is not a science.

Professor: We haven't progressed so far.

Prabhupāda: But so far we are concerned, that is the basic principle of our further investigation in religion.

Professor: Yes.

Morning Walk -- October 20, 1975, Johannesburg:

Harikeśa: Because he just stood there and said, "Nothing is happening to me," everybody has figured that he is already there.

Prabhupāda: "There" means where?

Harikeśa: At the ultimate.

Prabhupāda: Hell. (laughter)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. (break) Anyone who is thinking that they're happy is simply a rascal. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...saying the black man is not allowed to marry a white woman?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, no. Neither vice versa also. There is no intermarriage permitted here. (end)

Morning Walk -- October 21, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: ...machine is recording, but as soon as electricity stops—the machine is there—it will not record. You cannot say the machine is the ultimate. Machine is there; it will not record as soon as the electricity is missing. So that electricity, either you say soul or something else, you replace it. Just like electricity means the battery you charge, it will work, again record. Similarly, if you say "That is not soul, something missing," so you can replace it. What is that something? That something also you do not know. Then how can you refute my argument, soul? You do not know anything. I at least know something on the basis of śāstra. But you have neither śāstra nor experiment, nothing else. So who is strong? I am strong or you are strong?

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: This is right answer, that you cannot non-cooperate with the stomach. You must serve the stomach. Otherwise your position is very precarious. That is the answer. If the finger thinks that "I shall remain independent and be happy," that is not possible. The stomach must be supplied food, and then all the parts of the body, they'll be happy. That is the point. So you cannot non-cooperate with the stomach. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the central enjoyer. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He is the center. Just like ordinarily this African state, if you do not satisfy the state or the president, then you cannot remain happy. Independently you cannot be happy. We require in every step sta... We have come to this park because state is cooperating. In the morning we shall come, and they have prepared it nicely. We are not going to the jungle. So if we actually want happiness we must cooperate with the state. This is crude example. Similarly, if our ultimate aim is to become happy, then we must cooperate with Kṛṣṇa. This is obligatory. You cannot escape it. Then you'll be unhappy. This is the... Stomach. Pranopaharac ca yathendriyanam. Therefore the natural process is you pick up... A child even. He picks up some something, but he does not put anywhere—immediately in the mouth. Why he does not bring it in the ear? Why? The child immediately takes it. He does not know what is what. But the nature is that as soon as he captures something, even he does not know... Because his position is eating, he knows this much, sense gratification. Other senses are not yet developed. So the child, he knows taste with tongue and eats. That he knows. So immediately anything he captures, he brings to the mouth, naturally. He hasn't got to be educated. So our position is like that. We being part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, our natural tendency is to serve Kṛṣṇa. Natural tendency. It is not artificial.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Every Vedic scripture will advise you. You take this Upaniṣad or that Upaniṣad; the ultimate is Gitopaniṣad. The final, Gitopaniṣad. Yes, Gītā is Upaniṣad.

Dr. Patel: Yes, yes. That is always mentioned after each of them.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Gitopanisad. So Gītā is the substance and summary of all Upaniṣads, and Upaniṣads means Vedas. That is the Vedic knowledge.

Harikesa: But if you negate "I," there's no question of seeing.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Harikesa: If you negate the "I..."

Prabhupāda: The same principle, that "You are seeing. Now kill yourself: you don't see." That's all. The same philosophy. You are seeing and feeling disturbance—better kill yourself; you'll not see, then all problems solved. This is their advise. Kill yourself. So who will agree to that?

Dr. Patel: Yes, philosophically kill yourself, and get yourself transferred to a different life.

Prabhupāda: No, no...

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: Yes, because they're fools. They're as fools. They are simply criticizing the capitalists, that much. That much, there is something ideal that the state property should be equally divided. That's a good thesis. But they do not know that it is not the ultimate solution. You do not know who is the proprietor. You do not know the proprietor. These things belong to Him. You are using it. I am thinking that "You are proprietor." But actually you are not proprietor. He is proprietor. If that is the position, then I take it from you that: "You cannot possess. I shall possess." Then what is my possess? The same thing. As you took it, took it out from this man, so I took it, take it from you. So my position is the same. If you cannot find out who is the actual proprietor, then you may change hands. The problem remains there, that it, it does not belong to you. You are forcibly snatching from the proprietor, or without knowing the proprietor, you are making arrangement. What is the value of this arrangement?

Harikeśa: So it's just the animal philosophy of the strong dominating the weak...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's it.

Harikeśa: ...in, in a new package.