Two parties (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"both parties" |"two parties" |"two party"

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- August 15, 1971, London:

Śyāmasundara: In Russia we noticed every day they're practicing for war, young people, marching.

Prabhupāda: Mechanical.

Śyāmasundara: Yes. In China too, marching, ready to take over.

Kulaśekhara: When we were in New York, one boy...

Prabhupāda: No, there will be fight. That is the prediction of great politician. There will be war between these Communist and anti-Communist. There are two parties now. The anti-Communist will be defeated. The Communists will come out victorious.

Śyāmasundara: We don't want to fight. None of our boys want to fight.

Prabhupāda: They also do not want fight but they are forced. They do not want to fight. Because they're... Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In the Kali-yuga everyone is śūdra. What he'll fight? Fighting is not the business of a śūdra. It is meant for the kṣatriya. And nobody is being trained as kṣatriya or brāhmaṇa. Everyone is being trained as śūdra or utmost vaiśya, how to make money. That's all. One class of men is being trained how to serve and get some money, another class is being trained how to make money by exploitation. That is capitalist and communist.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- March 17, 1973, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Bombay light, yes. Bombay light, that is during my householder life. I opened an office in Bombay for my business and... The (indistinct) Gauḍīya Maṭha was established by us. I am one of them. Śrīdhara Mahārāja also. And we made two parties for begging, collecting alms. Śrīdhara Mahārāja, myself and Gosvāmī Mahārāja. That time he was Atula, Atulacandra Gosvāmī. So I took them to some of my friends, chemist friends, doctors friends. So I collected about five hundred rupees to this. Śrīdhara Mahārāja would speak, I introduced, and Gosvāmī, at that time Gosvāmī Mahārāja would canvass (laughter). In this way three combined together, in one day or two days we... At that time five hundred rupees was (laughing) big amount.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Big sum.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. All fights should be decided by the board. That's nice. And it will be accepted even by the court. Here, in India, there is such system. A board of five, ten men in the village, if there is some fight between two parties, whatever the board will decide that will be accepted in the court. Pañcāyeta. It is called pañcāyeta system. (break) You join. There will be no scarcity. This will engage people. Some are, some of them will be engaged to produce food. Where is the question of scarcity? There is food, there is milk. Eat and drink and be human beings.

Viṣṇujana: When we first go to open a temple in a city we get an apartment or a storefront. But then, when more and more people come, then we should get land and cows and everything and...

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, but it said in the Bhagavad-gītā clearly, it is said clearly, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān: "I told this philosophy to Vivasvān." Where is the difficulty to understand? Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ: (BG 1.1) "In the dharma-kṣetre, kuru-kṣetre, two parties willing to fight, they assembled." Where is the difficulty to understand? Why these rascals should interpret in a different way?

Indian Man (1): These are all... They are not interpreting that particular word.

Prabhupāda: They are doing.

Yaśomatīnandana: There is nothing like Kurukṣetra, they say.

Indian man (4): That is another group of people, their own brain creation. That we should not...

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Therefore, because you have no brain, therefore you cannot understand the rasas with Kṛṣṇa. That is spiritual; that is not material. Ānanda-rasa. Ananda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37). That is the Vedic statement. There is cinmaya. In the spiritual world there is ananda. You... You have no knowledge. You, due to your poor fund of knowledge, you think that in the spiritual world there is no rasa; it is simply void, negation of this rasa. Just like a diseased man. He is practiced to drink bitter medicine and pass stool on the bed and so many inconveniences, so if some of his friends says, "When you'll be cured, you'll be able to pass stool in the lavatory. You haven't got to, haven't got to pass stool..." Then he shudders: "Again I have to pass stool after becoming cured? Again I have to eat? No, no, this is not good. Make it zero." He has no idea what is the meaning of passing stool in healthy stage. It refreshes the body. We get good energy. That he cannot conceive. He thinks that "If there is passing of stool again, then it must be the same suffering as I am undergoing now in this condition." So the Māyāvādī's idea of spiritual life means negation of these material activities. But they have no idea that similar activities are there in spiritual life, but that is not material. That is their poor fund of knowledge. Therefore we are... You are not understanding Caitanya-caritāmṛta, the rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtīv hlādinī-śaktir asmāt. That I am explaining for the last few days. That is not at all this material. So unless there is loving affair in the spiritual world, how here it is as perverted reflection? It is the reflection of the reality. The reality is there. That they cannot understand. That is also hinted in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "There is another feature, or another nature," paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyaḥ (BG 8.20), "which is sanātana, is eternal." Here the rasas, on account of being material, they are flickering. But there, real rasa is permanent. Here the loving affairs between two parties finish as soon as the bodies finish.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: The more you fight with these rascals, the more you advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You are a fighting soldier. Kṛṣṇa very much appreciates. (long pause) So you take Bhagavad-gītā by your own interpretation, and I take Bhagavad-gītā as it is. So who is right? Who will decide this? You interpret in your own way. I don't interpret. I take it as it is. Now we are two parties. So who is correct?

Amogha: They say because so many others...

Prabhupāda: No, no, there are two parties. That's all. Others means one who interprets, that is one party. And there is one party who does not interpret. So who is correct?

Morning Walk -- July 1, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: ...competition amongst the gopīs, who can satisfy Kṛṣṇa more. In the spiritual world there is also competition. (break) ...two parties, one, Rādhārāṇī's party, and one, Candravāli's party. (Car horn honks) Come on. (laughs)

Brahmānanda: They were saluting us.

Prabhupāda: Outsider?

Brahmānanda: Yes. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When we distribute these books, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we think that it is you who are distributing them, that they are your books, and we are simply assisting to offer them to people. It is actually you who are doing all the preaching.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That you'll understand when you actually understand yourself. You do not understand yourself. You cannot understand why Kṛṣṇa said that "You fight." First of all understand yourself. That is the first instruction the Arjuna was given, that the.... Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). He's not teaching how to fight. He's teaching the philosophy. Try to understand the, I mean, step by step. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a scientific movement. It is not a religious faith. That is not. The beginning is that as the child grows to become a boy and boy grows to become a young man.... This is scientific. It is not the question of religion. It is religion.... According to Sanskrit, the dharma, the word dharma, that is translated into "religion," and religion means a kind of faith. But it is not like that. It is a science to understand your real identification. And because Kṛṣṇa we worship.... Every big man should be worshiped, so Kṛṣṇa we accept God. They take it as religion. But He's God. That's a fact. God-worshiping is religion. But Kṛṣṇa is speaking everything knowledge. Knowledge means you must have knowledge of everything, social, political, religious, cultural, philosophical, chemical, physical, everything. So the Bhagavad-gītā is like that. Vedic knowledge is like that. You receive any type of knowledge you want to get. That is called Veda. Veda means knowledge. Knowledge means of anything. That is knowledge. So everything is there. You'll find social, political.... This fighting is political. So in politics sometimes war is necessary. You cannot avoid it when there is politics. That is the whole history, and politics are never settled up without war. There is no history. When you come to the political platform, war is necessary. In logic it is called argumentum vaculum, that when a man is not accepting reasoning, then there must be stick. It is like that. When there are two parties—there is some disagreement—so one is not reasonable, then there must be stick.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That is your ignorance. But the beginning is dharma-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). Yuyutsavaḥ means fighting. Two parties, they, actually, the two parties... Pāṇḍavas māmakaḥ caiva kim akurvata. Every word is significant. Fighting can be executed even in dharma-kṣetre. That they cannot understand. Gandhi misunderstood. If it is dharma-kṣetre, how there can be fighting? He wanted to prove nonviolence artificially. How it is possible? Kṛṣṇa is instigating him to fight, and how can you make it nonviolent? That is artificial. And if you want to explain something artificially, how long you'll do it, it will be failure. So Gandhi's philosophy of nonviolence and reading of Bhagavad-gītā went with him. Nobody is interested in that kind of explanation.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: You have to take it, because there is no difference. As soon as you bring in Mahābhārata and Kṛṣṇa, the Kṛṣṇa is the same. You cannot take it differently. Because Kṛṣṇa is speaking to one of the parties of the fighters, the Kurus and the Pāṇḍavas, and that is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samaveta yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). Yuyutsavaḥ means two parties desiring to fight. Who are those parties? Māmakaḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva (BG 1.1). That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. That is the Mahābhārata history. So how you can differentiate this Kṛṣṇa, that Kṛṣṇa? There is no possibility, it is imagination. The beginning is Mahābhārata and the Bhagavad-gītā.

Guest (2) (Indian man): Swamiji, excuse me for this, I read an article recently. One of my secretaries he brought that article to me, it was written by Dr. Bannerji in India-he's a professor at Calcutta University. And he says that Kṛṣṇa and the Mahābhārata, the Kurukṣetra, that is all a visionation.

Garden Conversation -- September 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: If there is war they were not affected. And the soldiers would not bother the public. It is said during Mohammedan period the soldiers of one party will ask the cultivator, "Where the other soldiers gone?" They would say, "I have seen and they have gone this side." The cultivator is going on. The fighting is going on, but the cultivator is not affected. He is free. "You fight between themselves and whoever the victor is, I shall pay taxes. That's all. I have nothing to do with politics." This was... Between two parties of king or political, they may fight. Citizens, they have nothing to do who is the victorious. "You fight and one of you will become victorious. So you take taxes. I am concerned with paying tax. And tax, tax means whatever I have grown, you take one-fourth. You see this I have grown. Now you can take away one-fourth."

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Viṣṇu party. Yes. Now they should take in politics.

Haṁsadūta: You wrote in your Eighth Canto, there are always two parties, the Viṣṇu party and the demons' party.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If they're forming demons' party, let them...

Haṁsadūta: Form a Viṣṇu party.

Prabhupāda: That ah, the fight between the Viṣṇu party and the demon party is always going on.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Well they could never stop it, I mean... they could just...

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I had such experience. I had some experience in my childhood in 1911. I was thirteen years old. There was a riot. So our house was there in Mahātmā Gandhi Road, and all sides Muhammadans. We are simply... The Mulliks and our house are simply some respectable men. Otherwise it was surrounded (surrendered?) by... That is called Kwalabala and Bastik, all Muhammadans, backside fully Muhammadans. So the riot was there, and I went to play. There is a square, Marker(?) Square. So I did not know the riot has taken place. I was coming home. So one of my class friends said that "You do not go to your house. That side is rioting now." So because we are in the Muhammadan quarter, this fighting between two parties, that was going on. It is usual. So I thought it may be like that, that two guṇḍās are fighting. I have seen. One guṇḍā is stabbing the other guṇḍā. I have seen. And they are pickpockets.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is the fact, we know. We know that is a fact, that... My point is that the modern age, they are very much proud of advanced technology. So where is that knowledge? And why people do not tax their brains to get this knowledge? This is very important subject matter. But where is that knowledge? And why they do not try to do it? We get information from the Supreme Personality of Godhead that this jīva, the driver... Not driver. The passenger. We are passenger, and driver is God, and machine made by material energy, māyā... Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. The similarity is there. Just like motorcar is manufactured by somebody and the passenger is there and the driver is there, similarly, this is a machine made by māyā. I am the passenger, and God is driver. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati bhrāmāyan (BG 18.61). Bhrāmāyan, the driver, the passenger of the owner, he is asking, "Mr. Driver, you go this way." So He's driving. Just like the same—Arjuna is asking Kṛṣṇa, senayor ubhayor madhye rathaṁ sthāpaya me 'cyuta: (BG 1.21) "Just between these two parties of soldiers, please keep my chariot." The same thing. The chariot driver, He is the Supersoul.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Nobody believes in Lenin. Then there would have been everyone Communist. You believe, a section. Then why there are two parties? You are not all in all. That is going on everywhere. How you can say that you are correct, I am not correct? The process is the same. Therefore Vivekananda has compromised, "Everyone is correct." Yato mata tato patha. There is no quarrel.

Gurukṛpā: Then they accuse us of being fanatical.

Prabhupāda: You are also fanatical. Why do you believe Lenin? You are fanatical in our eyes. You are worse than fanatical because we have got great other authorities—they believe Kṛṣṇa is God. You have created a section recently, but we have got evidences from thousands and thousands of years ago, authorities believing Kṛṣṇa. Our literatures are very old. Your literature recently made.

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is... Your criminal law will also criticize that "Why you are giving this instruction?" The two parties must be there, duality. If I accuse you of some criminality, you'll say, "Why you are checking my freedom?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because they have forgotten God, they no longer understand what is best for themselves.

Prabhupāda: They are like animals.

Hari-śauri: They don't know how to discriminate properly. Like that newspaper article, "The Hare Kṛṣṇa Puzzle. Are they good or are they bad?"

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. Why do they take "puzzle?"

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He cannot make any comment. These are facts. Two parties there were. One party, to use guru as their instrument for self-aggrandizement, and another party left guru. So both of them are offenders. This Kunja Babu, this Tīrtha Mahārāja's party, he wanted to enjoy senses through guru. And the Bagh Bazaar party, they left.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Vāsudeva.

Prabhupāda: So both of them are severe offenders.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about Śrīdhara Mahārāja?

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now there's no meter. There's only one meter for whole thing. For whole site there's only one meter. Water meter. But there are two parties. One is the Kalachand, and one we are.

Guest (1): So you install meter in your room?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ha, ha. Yes. They want to put extra meter in the room.

Guest (2): We have to have extra meter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To determine that we should only...

Guest (1): (Hindi)

Jayapatākā: (Hindi or Bengali) (Hindi conversation with scattered English about water and electricity meters)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So he's saying that 'cause...

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They say, we are saying so many things. In the court there are two parties. I say something, another party says. The judge is there. He has now decision.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then they'll ask for the verse to prove it, and we must quote the correct śloka to substantiate our claim.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That the judge gives. Judges according to lawbook. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). So we have to approach the right person who can give the judgment. What is their answer about this, that by chemical combination they cannot produce life? Still why they are insisting?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are rascals.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Patitānāṁ pāvanebhyaḥ. Pāpī tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo, tāra sākṣī jagāi-mādhāi, brajendra-nandana jei, śaci-suta hoilo sei. Kṛṣṇa is coming. He has come as Caitanya Mahāprabhu to deliver these pāpīs and tāpīs. Whole process is scientific. It is not (laughs) the Ramakrishna, Vivekananda. It is not that. What do they know? Or Gandhi. They are also trying for the betterment, but they do not accept the standard process. Everyone is trying. That is struggle for existence. So who is fittest? The fittest is the devotee. He'll survive. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). I have now explained how Kṛṣṇa became subordinate to devotee. (turns on dictaphone, plays back from tape:) "Yamarāja, controller of all living entities, is afraid of the order of Kṛṣṇa. Still, Kṛṣṇa is afraid of mother's stick. This contradictory thing cannot be understood by one who is not devotee. Devotee can understand how much powerful is unalloyed devotional service to Kṛṣṇa, so much so He can be controlled by such devotee. Bhṛtya-vaśyata. That means under the control of the servant, but He is under the control of pure love by the servant. In the Bhagavad-gītā also, we see, Kṛṣṇa became the chariot driver of Arjuna. Arjuna is ordering Him, senayor ubhayor madhye rathaṁ sthāpaya me acyuta (BG 1.21). Here Kṛṣṇa has agreed... (break) '...my chariot...' (break) '...to execute my order. Place my chariot between the two party soldiers.'

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Gandhi tried twenty years to get little equal rights. The General Smuts refused. He was failure in South Africa. And then he decided that "I shall drive these Europeans, Englishmen, from India." He came. That also he could not do. Here also, for thirty years he struggled. He was failure, nonviolent. It is Subhash Bose's INA which drove away these Englishmen. You know that? That Indian Army, what is that, INA, Indian National Army? When he organized this National Army, then the Englishmen came to sense that "Now we cannot rule over." This rascal was going on, nonviolence... (laughter) While... "We shall pat them: 'Oh, yes, you are so powerful. Oh, why you are trying to drive away?' " And he'll be... "Oh..." The Baitland(?) Colony in a loincloth, and engaged in the sun chair.(?) He had no practical knowledge. He started the movement from 1917, and actually it was... Independence was given, 1947. Thirty years he failed. Twenty years he failed there. He spoils fifty years for nothing, and distorting Bhagavad-gītā, that in Bhagavad-gītā there is nonviolence. Such a rascal. Bhagavad-gītā begins with, with this word, dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre yuyutsavaḥ: (BG 1.1) "Two parties desiring to fight."

Room Conversation -- October 12, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The charges are made by the government. We cannot drop. Do you follow?

Jayapatākā: Yes. The charges can't be dropped by us, but if the two parties make a type of compromise agreement and file a petition to the court...

Prabhupāda: But now the fight is not between them and us. The fight is between government and them.

Jayapatākā: Many barristers in Calcutta say that if due to political pressure, this or that, some people come and ask us to try to file a petition for dropping charges, that there's no need to do that, because the case is well in our favor.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you drop, they get opportunity.