True (Conversations 1968 - 1973)

Expressions researched:
"true"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: true not "true sense of the term" not "not true"

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: These are miserable conditions inflicted by material nature just to remind the conditioned soul that this conditioned life in the material nature is not for you. There is another place where you can live very peacefully. Just like in the prison life there is always infliction of miseries. If in the prison life one is comfortably situated, then he'll never go out, he'll try to live there. So these material inflictions of miseries reminds us that this place is not suitable for us. It is not our place. Our place is back to Godhead, back to home. Therefore these are the reminders that you must leave this place.

Gargamuni: Yes. Also, what is our true identity?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Gargamuni: What is our true identity?

Prabhupāda: Actual identity?

Gargamuni: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Actual identity is that you are spirit soul. And this material body is your covering. Just like dress. Just like when you dress, the real body is there. Similarly, we are within this material body. So we are taking more care for the dress and not for the body actually.

Conversation with Religious Group -- July 27, 1968, Montreal:

Guest (2): Swamiji, I think the objective will be... As far as you are concerned, it will be London. As far as I am concerned, it may be Paris or Hawaii.

Prabhupāda: No, then that is not... No, that is not. Hawaii... Then we have to consider where real happiness, whether it is in Hawaii or in Paris or in...

Guest (2): True. But then you are not going to a country that it is not London. And if I say I am not going to...

Prabhupāda: That is going on. That is going on. There are innumerable planets, and in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, yānti deva-vratā devān pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ (BG 9.25). Now, if you think that London is not good for you, Paris is good for you, it is good for you.

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Reporter: Well, what I'm getting at is that if for instance you say that first this conviction that they would not be able to land, and secondly that whatever earth people would go there would be opposed and would not be able to safely return, if you say this, based on Vedic literature, and other members of the Kṛṣṇa movement heard this, and then if the feat were accomplished, would this not seem a contradiction or something that had been said would be the case and then the opposite was proved true? Would this...

Prabhupāda: What is that contradiction? There is nothing contradiction. We say that if you get a suitable body you can enter there. So if by your scientific process you can equip yourself with suitable body you can enter there. Where is the contradiction?

Reporter: Well, you said that spacesuit was not a suitable...

Prabhupāda: That is a fact. That is a fact. That is not suitable.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: If we see that following a particular type of religious principle one is developing his love of Godhead, that is first-class religion. But if one is developing his love for demon or mammon then where is the religion?

Journalist: True.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) You see. That is our test. If you have developed... We don't say that you follow Christianism or Muhammadanism or Jewism or Hinduism—we don't say. Whether you are developing your love of Godhead. But they deny, "Oh, I am God. Who is God? I am God." You see? Everyone is taught nowadays that everyone is God. Just see how fun. Everyone is God. Do you think like that?

Journalist: You know from Meher Baba?

Prabhupāda: He is also another rascal. He is preaching this that everyone is God.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation Before Lecture -- April 29, 1969, Brandeis University, Boston:

Prabhupāda: Then that article has worked adversely?

Satsvarūpa: Yeah. The real estate man said if it had only come out a week later, he said, "You'd be in."

Prabhupāda: So publicity like this is not good for us, that people are thinking we are hippies.

Miss Rose: Yes. That's true, Swamiji. Yeah.

Prabhupāda: So then you should not give publicity. You must even in the beginning verify that we are not hippies. Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is not for hippies. In many places this is a notion, that we are hippies.

Devotee: Montreal.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee: Montreal too, the same thing.

Miss Rose: Yes, but a lot of hippies have gone back to... They've went to Florida, Swamiji. Thousands of hippies went back to Florida. They left Boston.

Prabhupāda: They are, most of them, in Hawaii also.

Conversation Before Lecture -- April 29, 1969, Brandeis University, Boston:

Prabhupāda: So they are our best candidates. So you can advertise that "We are not hippies, but we are converting many hippies to the sane condition of life." That's a fact. They are searching after something better, but they have no leader.

Miss Rose: Yes, that's true. That's it.

Prabhupāda: They have no leader. Now, if they come to us seriously, they get the right thing. But that is also their defect. When we propose, "Come and take this Kṛṣṇa," they don't want. They want that marijuana.

Candanācārya: Prabhupāda, my mother had the idea of going to rich parents who are very anxious about their children who've become hippies and saying that this movement...

Prabhupāda: So you should write article that "We are not hippies, but we are converting hippies to the sane condition. So father, mothers, who are anxious for their children, let them send their children to us. We take care." In this way you make impression in the public mind.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: It is already in the dictionary. It is already in the dictionary. All dictionaries you will find Kṛṣṇa. What do you want more?

Allen Ginsberg: Something that will not disturb truckdrivers.

Lady (Indian): They can say Christ, they can say Kṛṣṇa. It is same.

Allen Ginsberg: That is true... True. But they don't say Christ. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Now Krist... I have read one book, Aquarian...

Kīrtanānanda: Aquarian Gospel?

Prabhupāda: Gospel, yes. In there it is explained that Krist means love. Christ means love. And Kṛṣṇa also means love. So there from Kṛṣṇa this word Krist has come. And in India somebody says Kristha. Instead of Kṛṣṇa, they say Kristha.

Allen Ginsberg: Where?

Prabhupāda: And in apa-bhraṁśa, has come Kestha. Generally they talk, instead of pronouncing very nicely Kṛṣṇa... Somebody's name is Kṛṣṇachandra. "Hey, Kesthara."

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: That is not finished. You have to go... That is... Upaniṣad says that, he's praying that "Please wind up Your effulgence so that I can see Your true face." The Upaniṣad says. You see in the Upaniṣad. And he's praying that "Please wind up Your this glaring effulgence so that I can see Your real face." So real face is there. And Bhagavad-gītā says, brahmaṇo 'ham pratiṣṭhā. "This impersonal Brahman is standing on My existence." And Brahma-saṁhitā says that

yasyā prabha prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-

koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi vibhūti-bhinnam

tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa-bhūtaṁ

govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

(Bs. 5.40)

This Brahman effulgence is nothing but His bodily effulgence. You see whenever we put Kṛṣṇa, there's a bodily effulgence. Within that bodily effulgence every creation is there. Just like this effulgence of sun. Within the sunshine all these planets are moving, all this vegetation, everything growing, coming. The whole thing is existing on the sunshine. Similarly, sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Everything existing on brahma-jyotir. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said māyā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā. "This impersonal exhibition of this whole manifestation, it is I." Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni (BG 9.4).

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: Well, the chanting is easy. The chanting is easy. That's true.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Let them do that. Don't come to the ritualistic performances. Let them chant as far as possible and see the result. This is the easiest method of transcendental realization. But if you recommend, oh, that will be accepted by many. And if we...

Allen Ginsberg: No. You see, I recommend it quite a bit but it isn't accepted by very many.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, no. Then I say, you are American. You are popular leader. You have got some voice. I am a foreigner. I have come new, and who cares for me? That is a different thing.

Allen Ginsberg: Well, that's why I'm asking you very specifically cause I've been chanting for five years, six years. Since 1963, '64. Since the fall of 1963, I've been chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa on this continent, beginning in Vancouver in July, 1963. And I am finding there is a limitation to how many people will join that chant. Or I have found a limitation. Part of the limitation is the fact that it is strange and new to people here.

Prabhupāda: But there is no loss.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, yes, yes. I'll read you sometimes.

Allen Ginsberg: There are translations of that. There are some translations of that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In the Twelfth Canto, the Kali-yuga descriptions are there.

Allen Ginsberg: Twelfth Canto.

Prabhupāda: Twelfth Canto. And you will find that all the descriptions are coming to be true. Just like there is one statement, svīkaram eva udvahe: "Marriage will be performed simply by agreement." Now that is being done. And lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dharaṇam: "People will think that he has become very beautiful by keeping bunch of hairs." That is coming true. These are written there. All things are there in Bhāgavata history.

Allen Ginsberg: Well, in the Bhāgavata Purāṇa is there also provision for the Caitanya cult?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇam (SB 11.5.32). We have given that in that book, our Teachings of Lord Caitanya. That is the first quotation there.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

John Lennon: But how would you know, anyway? How are you able to tell, anyway? I mean, for any of your disciples or us or anybody that goes to any spiritual master, how are we to tell...

Prabhupāda: Not any spiritual master.

John Lennon: True master. How are we to tell one from the other?

Prabhupāda: It is not that any spiritual master. Sampradāya. Sampradāya means a particular line of disciplic succession.

John Lennon: But, you see, Maharishi said exactly the same thing about his mantra's coming from the Vedic, with seemingly as much authority as you, and he was probably right. So how... It's like having too many fruits on a plate, and you can't only eat two of them.

Prabhupāda: No. If mantra is coming down in that way, then it is potency; the potency is there.

John Lennon: But Hare Kṛṣṇa is the best one.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Yoko Ono: Then, in that sense, you see, for instance... I see the same pattern in what you have said. For instance, you said that Hare Kṛṣṇa is the most superpowerful word, and if that is true, then why do you bother to utter any other words? I mean, is it necessary? And why do you encourage us, saying that we're songwriters and all,...

Prabhupāda: No...

Yoko Ono: ...to write any song but Hare Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is cleansing process.

Yoko Ono: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So actually one who chants Hare Kṛṣṇa regularly, he hasn't got to do anything. Actually it is the position. He doesn't require to read any book.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1970, Bombay:

Guest (9): ...and your ceremony...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, if you go anywhere, if you want to preach Hinduism, why they should be interested in Hinduism? They can hear some words. But we are not talking of Hinduism and Mohammedanism; we are talking on the science of God.

Guest (9): The true philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is God? What is the conception of God? Oh, they have accepted, therefore: "Yes, here it is right conception." Yes.

Guest (9): Go back to Godhead.

Prabhupāda: Back to Godhead.

Guest (9): Go back to Godhead. (conversation among Indians about BTG's)

Guest (9): I distributed what I got.

Prabhupāda: No, I shall arrange to distribute. I am getting fifty thousand Back to Godheads. Fifty thousand. I shall distribute.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Guest (4): I really couldn't believe it.

Prabhupāda: No, in the reading matter he said that, "He was trained by his father to worship Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, to observe Rathayātrā, and he was taught mṛdaṅga." These are all true. But anyone who worships Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa and who follows the Hindu ceremonies, Rathayātrā, how he can say that "Hinduism nothing"? Just see how rascaldom. This is contradiction.

Guest (4): Mahārāja, there is reason for that. Because that paper, the owner of that press is a Jain. And the Jains have a natural antipathy towards the ...?...

Prabhupāda: Oh, just see. So how biased man can report? So therefore we are avoiding reports.

Guest (4): (Hindi?)

Prabhupāda: No, tape may be. But he also taped, that man. But he has misrepresented.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Nārāyaṇa.

Himāvatī: He was thinking but he was calling out to him, and after calling, he was reminded of his early life, of his worshiping the real Nārāyaṇa.

Prabhupāda: Nārāyaṇa.

Himāvatī: And therefore Nārāyaṇa saved him. Isn't that true?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Himāvatī: Not that he was simply calling and Nārāyaṇa had to save him...

Prabhupāda: But simply calling, "Nārāyaṇa," he reminded, he remembered. Remembered. Yes.

Himāvatī: He remembered the real Nārāyaṇa.

Prabhupāda: Because actually when one chants Lord Kṛṣṇa's name, Lord's name, immediately he remembers Lord's form, activities, pastimes, everything. That is natural.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discussion with Indians -- January 18, 1971, Allahabad:

Guest (1): I do not, and again I say...

Prabhupāda: No, no, first of all you answer me. If I say, "Give me a glass of water," and you say, "It is not to Swamiji."

Guest (1): (indistinct) ...what the Christ says, Mohammed says, everyone says, that...

Prabhupāda: Let them surrender to Christ. But why don't you surrender to Kṛṣṇa?

Guest (1): No, that is true, but...

Prabhupāda: That is true, but you do not know how.

Guest (1): No, you see, our... Even your... Even your way of thinking and your purpose is that Lord Kṛṣṇa should be Lord of the whole universe, so...,

Prabhupāda: Yes, Lord Kṛṣṇa is lord, universe.

Guest (1): Universe?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Guest: But today, I think, the scientific knowledge people will not accept all this, what you are saying only. They would perhaps like to try it once more, and perhaps, after going through the process of examination of theirs, they accept it if it is true.

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes, well correct. As I have already said our approach, the approach of people today, new era of knowledge everywhere in the world...

Guest: Try once more.

Prof. Kotovsky: Try once more. You are right. And also nobody would believe in anything without argument.

Prabhupāda: No, arguments are allowed.

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes, arguments. Nobody would believe because it was written in this or other script. Evidence, evidence and evidence has to be given to believe. And may I put one question to you? Have you many branches of your society everywhere?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Television Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Prabhupāda: Any life. That is religion.

Interviewer: It has never been interpreted that way.

Prabhupāda: But you have interpreted different way, but he said "Thou shall not kill." He never said "Thou shall not kill amongst human being." Why do you interpret in that way?

Interviewer: How would I recognize a true follower of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement by his behavior? What would his traits be? What would his outward expressions be?

Prabhupāda: Yes. His behavior, he's a perfect gentleman. That's all. You cannot find any fault in him. That is perfect Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are prohibited not to eat meat.

Interviewer: Not to eat meat?

Prabhupāda: No. They are prohibited from illicit sex life. They are prohibited to intoxication. They do not smoke even, what to speak of other intoxications. And they are prohibited not to indulge in gambling. So if they can observe these four rules and regulations, they become perfect men. Simply.

Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Prabhupāda: Any life. That is religion.

Interviewer: It has never been interpreted that way.

Prabhupāda: But you have interpreted the wrong way. But he said "Thou shalt not kill." He never said "Thou shalt not kill among human beings." Why do you interpret in that way?

Interviewer: How would I recognize a true follower of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement by his behavior? What would his traits be? What would his outward expressions be?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. He will be a very perfect gentleman. That's all. You cannot find any fault in him. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, perfect Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore prohibited not to eat meat.

Interviewer: Not to eat meat?

Prabhupāda: No. Therefore prohibited for illicit sex life. Therefore prohibited to intoxication. They do not smoke even, what to speak of other intoxication. And therefore prohibited not to indulge in gambling. So if they can observe these four rules and regulations, they will become perfect men. Simple.

Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:

Journalist (2): I haven't got the opportunity to become a student.

Prabhupāda: Then don't talk of seeing God. Don't talk of seeing God. God seeing is not so cheap. You talk about seeing God. If you want to see God, then you have (to) become a student how to see God.

Journalist (2): Can I see God by becoming a Christian?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That I was speaking. That if you are true Christian, you will see God. But who is true Christian, let me see first of all.

Journalist (2): Have you got a particular mission for London?

Prabhupāda: I have particular mission for the whole world? Why London? London is included in the world.

Journalist (2): What is that mission?

Prabhupāda: That mission is to make you understand what is God. You cannot say what is God. If I ask you, can you say what is God?

Journalist (2): I can't. Can you?

Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to learn.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: But if once it is made perfect, then it will be easier to print more and more.

Haṁsadūta: That's true, but see, what has happened is the entire sum has been lost...

Prabhupāda: He could not finish any one?

Haṁsadūta: No, not even the magazine was finished. The magazine before this recent one, I put it together myself from old magazines.

Prabhupāda: There are so many German students. They cannot do?

Haṁsadūta: They can do, but the thing is that you have said that he is the chief and unless it goes through him, it can't be printed.

Prabhupāda: No. No, no. No, no. No, no.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Dr. Weir: And the poor lawyer has to depend upon the other person in telling him what is supposed to be the true facts.

Prabhupāda: But my position is, as soon as I appoint my lawyer, I'll have to depend fully on you. I cannot do anything else. Whatever you advise me I have to do that.

Dr. Weir: Yes, but whatever you told me depends upon what advice I give to you.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But, as you say, the mother gives misinformation. Similarly, if you misguide me, that is not good. But I will have to depend on you.

Dr. Weir: But not deliberately. A lot of people don't know that that information is wrong.

Prabhupāda: No. Sometimes it is done deliberately. Sometimes it is done deliberately because everyone in this material world is imperfect. Therefore there is tendency of cheating. That is one of the qualifications of the conditioned soul. He becomes mistaken. He becomes illusioned. He cheats and his senses are imperfect.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Dr. Weir: But not deliberately. A lot of people don't know that that information is wrong.

Prabhupāda: No. Sometimes it is done deliberately. Sometimes it is done deliberately because everyone in this material world is imperfect. Therefore there is tendency of cheating. That is one of the qualifications of the conditioned soul. He becomes mistaken. He becomes illusioned. He cheats and his senses are imperfect.

Dr. Weir: Well, I'm sorry I think you're using the word cheat in a much broader sense. We would use cheat as conscious mistake as opposed to a person who doesn't realize that what he says doesn't happen to be true.

Prabhupāda: No, no, conscious... Suppose you think it is right but it is wrong. That is also cheating. Without knowing the thing perfectly well, if you deliver your knowledge to somebody that's cheating.

Dr. Weir: Well, I think that's being a bit hard when a person is not... If he's tried his best to do something and he doesn't intend to mislead, to call that cheating is a bit hard.

Prabhupāda: No, even if not intend, but if you misguide some way or other without sufficient knowledge, that is also cheating.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Śyāmasundara: But the whole idea is that these personalities have to be in a living form, not just in the past. But they live in the form of the spiritual master who's there to guide us personally. Not just praise someone in the past. Unless this process is transmitted in a human form personally, it's not...

Prabhupāda: That is the process in the material world also. You are lawyer because you have studied law under some big lawyer. So the process is coming.

Dr. Weir: I assure you, Swami, that the reverse was true. I went to Oxford. I sat at the feet, as we would put it, of one of the most tiresome men I ever met in my life. He gave me an extraordinary distaste for law. Any law I've learnt has had to be learned the hard way by, you know, looking up statutes, looking up cases. So I regret to say, that I have my own personal experiences...

Prabhupāda: That is, that is... Of course later on, in the beginning you are a student of a lawyer.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Dr. Weir: I was saying that fear prevents it.

Prabhupāda: No. There's no prevention. There's no fear because they are quite at liberty to ask me question and they're asking and the answer is there. I receive so many letters daily. So they have no... They are not afraid of me. But, out of affection, they offer respect.

Dr. Weir: May I make one strange statement that I think it is rather true of present world. People are always afraid of fear and love. It's almost as though it's something sissy or, you know, to get so mixed up with sentimentality.

Mensa Member: I don't know if it is rather than fear.

Dr. Weir: Well I mean... If you don't know. If I were afraid of you because of absolute knowledge or...

Mensa Member: Yaḥ.

Dr. Weir: ...terrified of the unknown.

Mensa Member: That's very true. That's why (indistinct) children (indistinct) and such like and things like the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement who not only (indistinct) philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Just like the child is afraid of the father. There is affection. My father is displeased that I do... Father has says, "Don't touch this." So I don't touch. My father has... So that fear and affection, both is there. It is not simply that he is afraid of his father but the affection is there. So to become obedient to the authority, there is a tinge of fear also but that is based on affection.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Dr. Weir: One of the difficulties, and I think this is true when I was saying simple people, using that in a broader sense, some people cannot get anything at all unless they have a little picture. You know, it helps them; not like the dear old lady who found...

Prabhupāda: That we give, the picture. Here is God.

Śyāmasundara: Just like Christ. He came to speak with a very ignorant class of men. He was forced to speak in parables and stories.

Dr. Weir: Ah, yes. Now parable is better than analogy. An analogy is an intellectual thing whereas a parable is a human thing. It's a warmth thing. It's in three dimensions, not a cross-section. And He was, of course, awfully clever at choosing them.

Mensa Member: I don't think your friend, Christmas Humphries will agree with either of those statements.

Dr. Weir: Knowing him very well, I don't... One would be surprised (indistinct) perfectly happy to feel that I was disagreeing with him. I think he (indistinct) himself to Kṛṣṇa at times.

Mensa Member: Well, is that absolutely (indistinct)

Śyāmasundara: The Buddhist thinks that everyone is God.

Prabhupāda: In Buddhist theory there is no acceptance of God. There is simply to diminish, or to nullify the sense of pains and pleasures. That is called nirvāṇa.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Śyāmasundara: But you can it's like this, it's like that. You have to be able to describe it somehow.

Prabhupāda: Actually in higher sense there is nothing material because everything is emanating from God, therefore everything is spiritual.

Dr. Weir: Well, that's true but the electron, as far as you can say, may be spiritual.

Prabhupāda: There is no distinction in higher status because we say that everything that we see that is manifestation of God's energy.

Dr. Weir: Exactly.

Prabhupāda: Energy. So in that sense, if it is God's energy there is nothing material. It is material when we forget God. That is material.

Dr. Weir: Well I would have said... You're rather going back to the analogy of the light. If there's no light there you can't see whether there's anything there or not. Directly you have the light it enables you to see it. But the things exist independent of whether the light was there all along.

Prabhupāda: Light is in relationship with the fire. So light is not different from the fire. Unless there is fire there is no light. There is no heat. So as soon as you feel heat or see light the fire is there. In higher sense those who can realize immediately realize that there is fire. Just like here there's light. Immediately you can understand there is fire. There is electricity. So it is a question of realization. In the higher realization there is nothing matter. Everything is spiritual. Simply when you forget God that is material. That is material.

Room Conversation -- November 11, 1971, New Delhi:

Guest: (indistinct) Any worship we first worship Lord Ganeśa, India.

Prabhupāda: That is not necessary. That is not necessary. If we worship other demigods to fulfill our, some particular desire... (Hindi) There are different demigods they worship, but one who knows that "If I approach Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, then everything is obtained..."

Guest: You say a true devotee of Kṛṣṇa, such a person need not go after the demigods?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no.

Guest: Secondly...

Prabhupāda: There is no need.

Guest: But if he goes after demigods...

Prabhupāda: If he wants some material profit. (Hindi conversation) So kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ prapadyante anya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). (Hindi)

Guest: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Tulasī Dāsa is different; therefore we don't take Tulasī Dāsa as authority.

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: That is the duty. Just like these fingers. Suppose if this finger is not working, I have got another finger. But if this finger does not satisfy me, that means it is diseased condition. It is not a normal condition. Similarly, we are parts and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). So we are parts and... If we do not satisfy Kṛṣṇa, that means we are in diseased condition, unhealthy.

Dr. Singh: We are not fulfilling our true dharma.

Prabhupāda: If this finger does not satisfy my body... Suppose I want to scratch here, a finger is doing it. If it cannot do it, that means it is diseased. So anyone who is not satisfying Kṛṣṇa, he is diseased condition. That is material life. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). Material life means full of misery. And when misery comes? When one is diseased.

Dr. Singh: Is it possible, Swamiji, that Kṛṣṇa may like to be satisfied through the material life?

Prabhupāda: Well, provided it is done for Him. Just like Arjuna, fighting. Fighting, if you take..., just like nowadays fighting is going on, that is material. But the same fighting done for Kṛṣṇa is spiritual.

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Sab janta (Bengali). In Bengal there is called sab janta (Bengali). There are sab janta (Bengali).

Dr. Singh: (laughs) (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: So our Indian people are sab janta (Bengali).

Dr. Singh: (still laughing) That is true. Here everybody is brought up with Hare Kṛṣṇa (Hindi). That must be one of the reasons, actually, why (indistinct).

Śyāmasundara: They take us very lightly.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are mūḍhas. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). Mūḍha, they are rascals.

Dr. Singh: (Sanskrit) That is the position actually. What is this little story, these two little things standing here? Some time back you called the drowning of the son of our teacher. Is this from the Bhāgavatam?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Devotee (4): I think if there is so much fear being preached in Christianity originally the Old Testament was the testament of the vengeful God and the New Testament was supposed to be the love of Christ. So if there is so much fear being preached it seems to be a reflection of individual consciousness more than the religion. They are preaching so much fear, it would seem to stem from their own activities, that maybe they do have this fear rather than the true reflection of the religion that Christ was teaching. He was supposedly (indistinct) to take up the sins of his disciples and to help them lead the nice life and lead them back. He said, he referred to them as his flock. So he was taking the role of a protector and yet the Christians you speak to, they talk about hanging you over hell by a thin thread that can be burnt away at any second. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Devotee: He said the Christians... (break)

Prabhupāda: But generally the Christians they are very much confident that all of our sinful actions they have been absorbed by Lord Jesus Christ so we can do anything.

Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they say the Christian religion is very good. Very good means that Lord Jesus Christ has taken contract for absorbing all their sins and they go on committing. Is that not idea in the Christian religion?

Devotee: Yes.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 4.13.48 to SB 4.14.11 -- January 18, 1972, Jaipur:

Prabhupāda: So Vena, here it is mentioned, sunīthā-garbha-sambhavaḥ. His mother's name was Sunīthā. She was also daughter of a very bad king, and she inherited the father's quality. And the son also inherited the mother's quality. This is also true. The son inherits mother's quality, and the daughter inherits father's quality. So because the grandfather of Vena Maharaja was a bad man, his daughter means Sunīthā, the mother of Vena, she became bad. And naturally her son, Vena, she (he) became bad. The father was very nice, good king. But because the mother was not good, the son became bad. Here is the evidence. Sunīthā-garbha-sambhavaḥ. Sunīthā, his mother's name was Sunīthā. Because he was born in the womb of Sunīthā, a bad woman, therefore, he... Nirūpitaḥ prajā-pālaḥ sa jighāṁsati vai prajāḥ. He has been elected as the king to protect the citizens. Instead of protecting, he is disturbing.

Room Conversation -- February 12, 1972, Madras:

Guest: They were all very good to me. They looked upon me as a, an impartial man, which is a very great compliment in our country. Now you have undertaken a very great task. I am not competent to discuss or comment upon it.

Prabhupāda: No. I think you are the best man to comment upon it.

Guest: True. Still, I am not presumptuous enough to comment on one who has actually taken up the work. That is the difference between thinking and doing. Thinking is easy. Doing requires inspiration, and you have taken it up.

Prabhupāda: I was thinking of taking up this task long, long ago. I wrote one letter to Mahatma Gandhi that "You have got influence all over the world, and you are acknowledged a man of spiritual understanding. Now you have got svarāṭ, you better retire and take up this preaching of Bhagavad-gītā all over the world."

Guest: He was doing if from the beginning, not exclusively that, but applying the Bhagavad-gītā to everything that he was doing. He was doing it really, but you are referring to concentrated, exclusive...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 12, 1972, Madras:

Prabhupāda: Girirāja.

Guest: ...Girirāja, whether it is the Gītā that you may stress on or the Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Gītā is the preliminary study of Bhāgavatam.

Guest: True, but in Bhāgavatam there is lots of danger, so far as Sri Kṛṣṇa goes. The Bhāgavatam, so far as it relates to the other incarnations of Mahā-Viṣṇu Himself, different, but so far as Sri Kṛṣṇa goes, it deals with a chapter of His life which can mislead people...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That we are very cautious.

Guest: Huh?

Prabhupāda: That we are very cautious.

Guest: You will have to be very cautious.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I was discussing this point...

Guest: Generally, generally people begin to think, "I am Sri Kṛṣṇa..."

Prabhupāda: Ah, that is nonsense.

Guest: "...God." That is what happens.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That I was explaining the other day. Where? In Madras, or where? "Who has supplied these chemicals?"

Śyāmasundara: Ah, in Madras.

Prabhupāda: I asked one chemist that according to chemical formula, hydrogen and oxygen mixed, it becomes water. Is it not?

Bob: That's true.

Prabhupāda: Now, this vast water in the Atlantic Ocean and Pacific Ocean, how much chemicals were required?

Bob: How much?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- March 12, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No. Otherwise they will not be scholars.

Guru dāsa: At any rate, where it came from is...

Prabhupāda: Because according to Darwin's theory, your forefather was monkey. So their theory is that long before there were monkeys only. How such high philosophical thoughts could come?

Dr. Kapoor: It is true that in England there were only monkeys there. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: On this theory, all their philosophy is going on. So if they give credit that Indians were so high scholars and philosophers, then the whole theory is spoiled. Because brain is developing, and the background of brain was monkey. So how such philosophical highly moral scholarly work can be done? And this is going on. If Bhāgavata is accepted as we accept that five thousand years ago it was written, then their whole civilization becomes topsy-turvy.

Conversation with Author -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Complaints, that is very difficult thing. What is our fault? Please tell me?

Author: Then sir, I want to ask you about, well... It seems this book is impracticable without the kind of material I want. Now, I don't want to adopt an uncompromising position at all, but I am convinced that you misunderstand my motivations. I don't know how to persuade you that my motivations are good ones, and so therefore I am in a corner, in a cul de sac. Now, the material that I must have in this book is sufficient to be able to persuade people that they are reading about something which is true. That means, for example, that I...

Prabhupāda: So, that books we have already published. To convince people that this is nice movement, we have got dozens of books, and they are selling nicely. Practically we are standing by the sales of our books and literature. How to convince people that this is a nice movement—we are ourselves publishing. You cannot publish better book than what we have done. We know the interest.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1972, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Einstein. So still, if you can copy, even if you can copy, you are not the original scientist, because that brain of Einstein is already created. So original creation is God's. So you can imitate. So you are imitator scientist. Is it not?

Martin: It's true.

Prabhupāda: Who has created the brain of Professor Einstein? You have not created. You are trying to make a xerox copy, that's all. But the original is already there. Now who has created the original brain? Then you have to go to God. But you have not created. It is not my men(?). If man could create such brain, then, "Ah, never mind, the professor has died. We create another person like." That you cannot. So even if you are able to imitate, you are not the supreme scientist. First of all it is doubtful. So accepting that you will be able to copy or xerox copy of Einstein's brain, that does not give you the credit. The credit is already there, God's credit. At least we shall not give you any credit. We shall speak that the original brain is created by God. You cannot create. If you had the power to create, then there was no necessity of copying. You could create better brain. That you haven't got. You are trying to take xerox copy from that brain. Just like big, big aeroplanes are flying, but their, the shape is made after the bird. The original shape bird is created by God. He has got the same type of machine even within an insect, small insect flying.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1972, Mexico:

Devotee: I just said that this is a very good sound track of your speaking—this chanting and...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Martin: Can a true devotee come face-to-face with God through the teachings of Buddha, the teachings of Christ?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Teachings of Christ, teaching of Buddha, they are meant for a particular type of men. Generally it is meant for everyone, but specifically for a particular type of men. Just like Lord Buddha, he preached ahiṁsā. They were a particular type of men. Lord Jesus Christ also preached to a particular type of men. "Thou shall not kill." That means they were killing. Is it not? If I say, "Thou shall not steal," that means you are thief, you are stealing. So a kind of preaching among the thieves and a kind of teaching among the philosophers must be different. That is the difference. Lord Buddha is Kṛṣṇa, Lord Jesus Christ was Kṛṣṇa incarnation, but they were preaching to a different type of people. Therefore you'll find difference of Lord Jesus Christ teaching, Buddha's teaching, Kṛṣṇa's teaching. Kṛṣṇa's teaching also is there, which is also Buddha's teaching. But more than that, because the persons amongst whom He was teaching, they were far, far elevated than the thieves and the rogues. That is the difference. Just like I am pushing on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, I am doing so many things which sometimes my Godbrothers out of envy criticize. But I know what is the circumstances how to do it. They do not know it. I know my business.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Guest (2): How can you separate out economics, politics...

Prabhupāda: There is no separation. Kṛṣṇa is the all-inclusive. Economic problem means eating, sleeping, mating or getting some money. So we are getting money. I have already given you account.

Guest (2): Yes, but... No. As far as ISKCON is concerned, maybe that is true. But supposing if you take an individual devotee, see, who is married and has a family and all that... He cannot...

Prabhupāda: There are so many married families. So many married families. He is married family, he is married family, he is married family. They have got children, wife, everything. There is no problem. The children are getting nice education, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, dancing, eating nicely. Just now we are purchasing one house in front of our temple, seventy thousand dollars for providing gṛhasthas. Husband, wife, children will live there. So we have no problem. The gṛhasthas are there, the brahmacārīs are there, sannyāsīs are there—everyone is there. We maintain the Vedic culture, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, or brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. The eight orders of social structure we maintain. But they're all engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. That is the distinction. Everyone is twenty-four hours engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Bob Cohen: It's very true.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Bob Cohen: That, it's very true.

Prabhupāda: But he's thinking that "I am master of the dog." A family man, he's controlled by his wife, by his children, by his servant, by everyone, but he's thinking, "I am master." President Nixon is thinking that he's master of his country, but he's controlled. At once he can be dismissed by the public, his servant. And he gets that position, placing himself that "I'll give you very good service. I shall be your first-class servant." Therefore people vote, "All right, you become president." And he's advertising, "Re-elect me. Re-elect me." That means he is servant. But he's thinking, "I am master." That is the position. Māyā. One who is controlled by māyā, he's thinking himself master, but he's servant. And a devotee, he'll never think himself, "I am master." "I am servant." That is the difference between māyā and not māyā. He at least knows that "I am never master. I am always servant." But these rascals, they think that they are master when actually they are servant. That is the difference. That is the difference. When a servant is thinking, "I am master," that is called illusion. And when a servant thinks "I am servant," that is not illusion; that is mukti. That is liberation. Because he is not controlled by a false thought. Try to think about this subject matter. A devotee is never controlled by a false thought. He knows his position. Svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). Mukti, liberation, means to be situated in his own constitutional position. That is called mukti, liberation.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1972, London:

Devotee 2: Jaya, haribol.

Prabhupāda: You consider Śrīmate Morarji as mother of the Institution (laughter) .

Devotee: And you're our father (laughter)

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, that's true.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Sumati Morarjee: Because, you see today, then Swamiji was in so much trouble, I still remember. He wrote to me some letter from America, that I am sitting in the Central Park, all alone (laughter).

Devotee: Daddy can't be alone. You've got so many students, you have no time...

Prabhupāda: I was going to your agent's office, Battery...

Sumati Morarjee: Ah, Battery Place.

Prabhupāda: Seventeen Battery Place.

Sumati Morarjee: Yeah, seventeen Battery Place.

Prabhupāda: So I was asking him, "find out when Scindia Navigation is going back." He said such and such date. All right. Then I thought, Let me stay another month, what I can do. then again I was going. He said such and such date. All right. Then I thought, let me stay another month, what I can do. Then again I was going...

Sumati Morarjee: To find out.

Prabhupāda: Find out (laughter)

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: We recommend minimum sixteen rounds.

Ian Polsen: Minimum sixteen rounds, every day.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise, you can chant twenty-four hours. Minimum sixteen rounds.

Ian Polsen: Is it true that if I follow the regulative principles, the four, that I will be able to chant without offense?

Prabhupāda: Yes. But ah... You are married, no?

Ian Polsen: No.

Prabhupāda: No family man? No. So best thing would have been to live with us and work. Give contribution as much as possible for running on this missionary work. But the thing is, we have no place to...

Devotee: We don't have a very nice place.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise I would have asked you to live with us and work.

Devotee: We're trying to get another place with bigger facilities. Now they're sleeping in the hallways practically.

Prabhupāda: You have got your own apartment?

Ian Polsen: I've just transferred down from Edinburgh on Friday for the first time. So I have not found a place yet. I'm staying in a hotel for the time being.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Devotee: The scientist from California.

Prabhupāda: Yeah. So many scientists comes to us. We say, "You are rascal number one." And he agrees. (laughter) Ha! I call him a rascal, fool, demon, and at last he agrees. (laughter)

Devotee: Still they went away happy.

Prabhupāda: That is the actual fact. One who does not know about God, what is the value of his knowledge?

Ian Polsen: What you say about scientists is also true of Western philosophers...

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Ian Polsen: ...who consider...

Prabhupāda: That is, that is temporary. Suppose a scientist has discovered this nice lamp. So I give him credit, but I can do without this lamp. It is not very necessary. (laughter)

Indian: The modern science is medicine.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Indian: Medical science.

Prabhupāda: What medical science? Can they stop disease? That is the problem. If they can stop disease then I can accept that they know something. What is their...

Devotee: In India the doctors, simply by feeling your pulse they know everything that's wrong with you.

Prabhupāda: No. Even that. No physician can stop disease. He can suggest, "This is very nice medicine," but my problem is, "Why shall I become diseased?" That is my problem.

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Prabhupāda: But that is there. It is stated in the śāstra. These are four sinful activities. (break) ...upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ. You have to take knowledge from tattva-darśī, jñānī, not from some people, nonsense. What is the value of some people?

Guest (5): How to identify a true learned man?

Prabhupāda: That you have to become a learned man. If you are a fool, how you can understand who is learned man? You have to become a learned man. Is it not? Otherwise you will be cheated. Anyone will come—"I am learned man. I am God"—and you will be cheated, if you do not know what is God, what is learned man. So first of all you have to become learned man. Then you will understand who is learned man.

Guest (2): But to become learned, you go to so-called learned people, and you go to so-called learned people. How do you know that those so-called learned are...

Prabhupāda: That has spoiled our Indian culture. That has spoiled our Indian culture. Everyone become learned man; everyone become a spiritualist. That's another... So best thing is to... Why don't you accept Kṛṣṇa as the most learned man? That will save you. Everyone accepts Him, all the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Śaṅkarācārya, Lord Caitanya. So why don't you accept Kṛṣṇa? Why you're searching after learned man? Here is the best learned man. Simple truth. If you simply argue, that is a different thing. But if you want really learned man, Kṛṣṇa is here. Take Kṛṣṇa as He is; then you learn everything. So I shall go now. What is the time?

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Mrs. Keating: ...and you share.

Prabhupāda: Yes. By serving I share. Just like this milk. The hand helps me, brings it here. I drink, and as soon I drank, the benefit is shared by all the parts of body. Is it not?

Ambassador: That's true.

Prabhupāda: You do not require to pass the milk through the finger, then with the toes. No. Simply put the tea, tea or milk, within, and every part of the body is satisfied. Just like you pour water in the root of the tree. The energy immediately, I mean to say, distributed to the leaves, to the tree, to the flowers, to the fruits, everything, immediately. Similarly, there must be something which is the root of everything. That is God. The Vedānta philosophy says God means the origin, the source of everything. That is God. Now you can imagine how that source should be. That is also explained. But God, or the Absolute Truth, is that, is the original source of everything.

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Śyāmasundara: There's been nothing like this movement ever before in the United States or in the world. And its potency proves the philosophy. If something is potent it automatically grows.

Ambassador: Yes, that's true.

Guru dāsa: We want also to be encouraged by our brothers and friends.

Ambassador: Yes, well that's right, and I'm so grateful to you for that lovely book. That's a beautiful book. I'll keep it out here on my table. Maybe I will send... You know, I had a young man here that was having trouble to extend his visa, and the government said to him, "What are you here for?" He said, "I am here to find myself." They said I should have sent... He's a hippie...

Mrs. Keating: This would be perfect.

Ambassador: So I said, they said when they were in last time, you should have sent him to us, which I would do again, because it's...

Guru dāsa: Then that hippie will become happy.

Mrs. Keating: Will become happy, yes.

Ambassador: Well, Your Divine Grace, thank you very much for stopping to see us.

Prabhupāda: Thank you.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Now here, Bhagavad-gītā, in the Fourth Chapter it is said, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). You can open to the Fourth Chapter.

Guest (2): (Indonesian) but according to our opinions that religion is something that true living.

Prabhupāda: Something?

Guest (2): Something that we should live truly.

Prabhupāda: True living. Yes. True, just like good citizens...

Guest (2): That's right.

Prabhupāda: Good citizenship means living under the direction of the government. That is good citizenship. Similarly, human life means to live nicely under the direction of God. The cats and dogs, they cannot understand. But the human life, (pause) That first verse: imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam, vivasvān manave prāha manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt (BG 4.1). So what is your explanation of this verse?

Guest (2): You want to explain this into er... Do you want to explain this?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam, vivasvān manave prāha manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt (BG 4.1).

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: If one of the children thinks that I am the independent, then naturally father will say, "All right, if you're independent, do your own business." This is an example. So if you want peace then, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, you have to learn these three things. It is not very difficult. To accept God as the Supreme Enjoyer, and God as the sole proprietor of everything, and He's the best friend of everyone. Then you have peace. Anyone can appreciate this. Anyone can adopt this principle and he'll be in peace. And so long one will falsely think that "I am God. I am enjoyer, I am this, I am that." Then he'll suffer. False notion will never make him happy. He must come to the true, factual idea. Now you can examine that Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the Supreme Enjoyer." Now let us understand this one fact, how Kṛṣṇa's the enjoyer. Now suppose here is some banana fruits. Who has created this banana fruit? You are not manufacturer, I am not manufacturer. Somebody has created. We accept God has created and that's a fact. Then who should be the enjoyer? I shall be enjoyer or God shall be enjoyer? Anything you create, you become the enjoyer. Anything I create, I become the enjoyer. So if God has created this banana fruit, then who should be enjoyer? God or I?

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In one of the articles by Bharatiya... There's a man called Bharatiya, in... What is (indistinct) university? He was saying that Nirana Subhas Bose, he wanted to join Ramakrishna Mission. Is this true, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: For future. No. Might be. He wanted to join? Why he should join? Why he did not join?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It was explained that he had a better, great mission, so he should not join, "You should do your..." By that time he was started, fighting for freedom. So he was not allowed...

Prabhupāda: So what was that greater mission?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: For independence, fighting.

Prabhupāda: No. Why he wanted to join Ramakrishna mission? What is the attraction of Ramakrishna mission? What they have done? Ramakrishna mission, what they have done? The Ramakrishna mission is working here in your country... (end)

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Prabhupāda: So I don't think your science has reached to the point to find out the measurement of the living entity.

Krishna Tiwari: Well, that is very true.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Krishna Tiwari: That is very true. That is very true.

Prabhupāda: But we get information that there is a measurement. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya, śatāṁśaḥ sādṛśātmakaḥ (CC Madhya 19.140). The tip of the hair you divide into one hundred parts, and take that part, again divide into one hundred parts, that is the measurement. That is one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. How far do you agree with this?

Krishna Tiwari: I don't know. (laughs) I don't know what you mean by that, but of course it is very true that we do not know much about life, and scientists are the first to agree to that, that we know very little.

Prabhupāda: That is real scientist.

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Prabhupāda: ...but one should know the whole duration of change. Just like we know that sunrise, from the morning 'till evening, there are so many changes, but I know what is that changes. That is knowledge.

Krishna Tiwari: That is true, but you...

Prabhupāda: But you cannot say that "I know seventh year. I do not know what is going to happen ninth, eighth year."

Krishna Tiwari: No, that is not the point. Point is that..., point is how to, how long this earth where we all live... Now we're talking about only this earth. How long this earth, we know, existed?

Prabhupāda: I'm not talking of the earth. I'm talking of the whole universe.

Krishna Tiwari: Right. Well, we'll talk about one object first, before we talk about universe next. (laughing)

Prabhupāda: That means you are not in the knowledge.

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Prabhupāda: Otherwise... Otherwise, when the soul is gone from the body...

Krishna Tiwari: Yes.

Prabhupāda: ...you could replace one soul.

Krishna Tiwari: Well, that's true. I mean that, I, uh, if you go... But my point is that the rat has a soul, and if God has something to do with the soul, then I should have no control of it.

Prabhupāda: Apart from God. Apart... We're not going to God. Just like here...

Krishna Tiwari: Okay. Let's talk about soul.

Prabhupāda: You are studying the hair. Your point is you're studying... Soul is the part of God, mamaivāṁśo (BG 15.7). God says, "The soul is My part and parcel."

Krishna Tiwari: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So first of all you study the part. What is the deficiency in the dead body? Have you studied it? That he's a dead body.

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Prabhupāda: Therefore you are under the laws of the government. Therefore you are under the laws of the government.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We are under the laws of the... We are following the same laws. If you violates the laws, of course, just like Prabhupāda says, if you drive on the right side...

Krishna Tiwari: Well, in a minor sense it is true. But what I'm saying is that those laws came about because we decided it was good for us.

Prabhupāda: That is...

Krishna Tiwari: That's what I would say.

Śyāmasundara: That's another consideration. He merely wants to define the word "law." You're using the word "natural law." He wants to understand what does the concept mean, "law."

Devotee (1): This is an example. It's just an example.

Krishna Tiwari: Okay, I agree, but so long we understand that government is not some body from up...

Śyāmasundara: In Russia it is.

Krishna Tiwari: In Russia it is, and I don't care for it.

Prabhupāda: That you don't care for it... The point is you are under nature's law. There must be somebody who is controlling nature's law.

Conversation with Sridhara Maharaja -- June 27, 1973, Navadvipa:

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: He wanted election of Vāsudeva Prabhu, Gaura Mahārāja and that Bhagavānānanda, but Paraśurāma. But anyhow, he escaped and he came to Tīrtha Mahārāja, his former relative, old Tīrtha Mahārāja, former relative. Then Tīrtha Mahārāja told him that "What about my guru?" "Well, if your guru on one side, another bullock in another side. And if you can plow and produce some crops, and that can be offered to Mahāprabhu, then your guru may have a path of relish." (laughs) See what Tīrtha Mahārāja says, "This is blasphemy." "No, it is true, but this is very cruel. But this is truth."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: If he's presently the pakka Māyāvādī, if he's used passively by a great man then only in that way he can come this side. Not in front walking. Not by front walking. Only by back drawing, he can be taken to this side only. It is quite true. That... So Cinmayānanda. Now Gaura Mahārāja, he knows me better, and he, he's a paid Goswami of those Patrikā persons.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: And they are exploiting him. He's exploiting them.

Prabhupāda: This time, in their meeting, they made me chief guest. But I did not attend.

Room Conversation With David Wynne -- July 9, 1973, London:

Devotee (1): (laughs) Just can't go wrong, then.

Prabhupāda: No. Kṛṣṇa says ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. Actually Kṛṣṇa is doing everything. We are thinking, "I'm doing it." We are doing nothing. Just like he has become a famous sculptor. Why you could not? Why, what is the reason? Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ (BG 15.15). "I am seated in everyone's heart." When He works, Kṛṣṇa says, "Do like this; it will be perfect like this." So Kṛṣṇa is guiding. And everyone is being guided by Kṛṣṇa, even in this condition of life. And when he fully surrenders, how much guidance he will come his way? Even without surrender he's guided. Without His guidance he can not do it.

David Wynne: That's true.

Prabhupāda: You cannot do it. Cannot do anything. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). Kṛṣṇa is guiding everyone, even an ant. Kṛṣṇa is giving information, "Mr. Ant, there is a grain of sugar, you can go there." Immediately goes. Otherwise, how he gets the information? For him, one hundred miles away, a grain of sugar, and he goes there. He did not inform. Who informs him? Who informed him?

David Wynne: You feel this very much when one's trying to make sculpture, because it is impossible for a man; one can't do it...

Prabhupāda: No.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Oh!

David Wynne: And the Upaniṣads and the Vedas and the...

Prabhupāda: Oh, you are fortunate.

David Wynne: So I've always known that it was true, but one, one's knowledge is very shallow. It's always felt true, is what I mean. Because an arti..., you know, a sculptor goes more by feeling than by thinking, you know.

Prabhupāda: Sometimes in your, by your convenience you can come to our temple and see how they are executing devotional...

David Wynne: Hm. Also one can tell a little bit about your teaching by the people one knows who were taught. I know Sam and I know George, and they've changed. George has grown much more, much more than the others. But I knew them when they were very young, you know.

Prabhupāda: Aiye.

David Wynne: And George now has gained enormously in spiritual steps.

Prabhupāda: He's a very intelligent boy.

David Wynne: Oh yes. But he now is wise as well as just clever.

Prabhupāda: He's fortunate.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That is not perfect knowledge.

Śyāmasundara: They don't know what he's like.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is not perfect knowledge. Perfect knowledge is when you understand the creator. What do you think?

David Wynne: I think yes. I'm not sure that the analogy..., I think that the greatest... Well, it is true because with the greatest sculpture, one does get to the full understanding, but if one really understands the universe, well, one would see God, I suppose.

Prabhupāda: No.

David Wynne: No.

Prabhupāda: You have to penetrate. You have to understand who has created this universe.

David Wynne: Yes. Yes. But if a great artist was no longer alive, people would still appreciate...

Prabhupāda: No, but the God is not like that, no longer alive.

David Wynne: No, but that's what I mean. The analogy falls down there, doesn't it.

Prabhupāda: God is not like that.

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Mr. Wadell: I'm sorry. Can you...? Are you asking me?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kristo. This is called apabhraṁśa. Apa means perverted, perverted spelling of Kṛṣṇa.

Mr. Wadell: I do not know the true answer to that question, I'm afraid.

Prabhupāda: And the meaning, anointed. What is the explanation of anointed?

Mr. Wadell: I am not sure whether this was a title applied to him by his disciples or whether it was a title which he himself explained to them, and it makes a difference whether he regarded himself as being anointed... If so he would have said this was by the..., his father.

Prabhupāda: But Kristo is person.

Mr. Wadell: It is a name applied to...

Prabhupāda: It is a name, then it must be a person.

Mr. Wadell: Yes, that is true. But the name is not always the same as the thing it describes or the person it describes. My name, I have said, is spelled in English in a certain way. It could be pronounced Waddle, Wawdle or, you know what I mean.

Prabhupāda: No, I am just suggesting there is similarity and the meaning "anointed." And from Kristo, the word Christ has come.

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Mr. Wadell: Yes, in English, that is quite true.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now the Christ, what is the meaning of Christ?

Mr. Wadell: I, well, it is this that he is the anointed.

Prabhupāda: No, Christ means love, something like that.

Mr. Wadell: It is connected, I suppose, with the word meaning grace, which is... There is another Greek word which is "havis."(?) But I am not a theologian. You know, I am not a brilliant man who understands all the meanings of the words in the Christian faith. But I think the word Christ means anointed, and that it may well be connected with another word which means grace or favor. But I don't think it is the same word.

Prabhupāda: My idea is that if we can connect this Kristo and Christ, that "love of Godhead," there is some meaning. Because we, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are teaching people how to love God. That is our...

Mr. Wadell: To love is very difficult, is it not? It is very difficult.

Prabhupāda: No, it is not difficult.

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Why not? That "engineer" word completes his situation. He is engineer.

Mr. Wadell: Well, you might say to me, "Teacher," but that would not be complete. That would not be a complete description

Prabhupāda: No, it is complete.

Mr. Wadell: It is true, but it is not complete.

Prabhupāda: But when it is true, it is complete.

Mr. Wadell: I don't think so. You see, I could... If I say, "This wall is white," that is a true statement, but it is not a complete statement. Because this wall is not like all white walls. There are many white walls which have not got curves in the corners or decoration at that particular point. Do you understand what I am trying to say?

Prabhupāda: But when... Just like when we say God, Kṛṣṇa, this word conveys the meaning "all-attractive." So what is the wrong? This Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. So unless God is all-attractive, how He can become God? It is not that God is for me God. God is for you also. God is for him also. Therefore He must be all-attractive. This is perfect...

Mr. Wadell: But not necessarily in the same way. Because....

Prabhupāda: No. Just to understand what is God, if you try to understand in this way that "God is good," "God is all-attractive," is it not perfect?

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: ...that you have to go through a process, right process. Then there will be no suspicion. The same example. But if you do not go through the process you will be always suspicious.

Mr. Wadell: When I say, "suspect," what I mean is not anything bad.

Prabhupāda: No, no, I know that.

Mr. Wadell: You understand that all I mean is that I am not sure about this. I think it may be true. I'm not sure.

Prabhupāda: That suspicion will continue unless you take the right process.

Mr. Wadell: But there are, I do not think that this God gave me my mind with my eyes and my sight, hearing, all these factors of the senses, and the intellect and the soul, if we are correctly speaking when we speak of it as something independently existing...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Mr. Wadell: Well, it's on this question of authority, in a sense, that we would have the greatest difficulty. But another time, please.

Prabhupāda: Well, every religion is authority. That's a fact.

Mr. Wadell: It is, yes. That's true. But every individual is free and must find for themselves.

Prabhupāda: No, we, we... Our proposition is, our proposition is that sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). "That is first-class religion which teaches the followers how to love God." This is our proposal.

Mr. Wadell: Well, we shall see. We have a lot to... (laughs) It is quite possible that I too have been sent.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Give him some prasāda. Just wait little. Take prasādam. Our only fighting is against atheism, godlessness. This is our main fight.

Room Conversation with Sir Alistair Hardy -- July 21, 1973, London:

Revatīnandana: In the Bible it says, "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God."

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Revatīnandana: It's possible to see God, but only if there's purity of heart. And a sinful person has not got that purity of heart.

Sir Alistair Hardy: Yes, I... Some of the very simplest people have been years at home (?) and there's great intellectual standing. That's true.

Revatīnandana: Not simple. Sinful.

Sir Alistair Hardy: Simple.

Revatīnandana: Not simple. We're saying "sinful."

Prabhupāda: Sinful.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Śyāmasundara: And you concluded that if men came out of this age who had developed a spirit of renunciation, true renunciation from material pursuit, that this would enable the world to rectify its present precarious position.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes, yes. Yes.

Śyāmasundara: So... Yes.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Do you see any signs of change in the western world or not?

Prabhupāda: Well, change can take place any moment, provided they will take this movement little seriously. Change for good.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Change for good. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And your article showed that you are also for change for good.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So our movement and your honor, we can cooperate for the good of the general people.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: How do you see this "spirit of true renunciation," as you call it, how do you see it...?

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: But West Pakistan, they speak Hindi, or Urdu.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: And the southern states are very conscious of their different languages.

Prabhupāda: Actually, English language... Now we see. We have got the facility of speaking in English language all over the world. Yes.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: That is true. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Whole America speaks English language. Australia, New Zealand. In India also, practically all educated men, they speak in English. So in Africa. In Europe also, they understand English language. Not very much, but... (laughs) The Germans, especially, they do not like.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes. No.

Prabhupāda: They do not like.

Śyāmasundara: Only at the airport.

Prabhupāda: France? What is the position in France? They don't like also.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So he came to our college in our, when we were young men, second year student. All our professors, mostly they were Scotsmen, and there was one English professor, Mister Warren. All other professors, they were Scotsmen, Mr. Keye, Mr. Cameron, Mr. Scrimgeour in this way.

Lord Brockway: Those are Scottish names.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Scottish names. So you remained only four years after your birth.

Lord Brockway: That is true. But I have quite clear memories, especially of Berampur, of our house, of playing with Indian children under a tree...

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Śyāmasundara: He goes back frequently to India for visits.

Prabhupāda: Berampur is not very far away from our temple.

Śyāmasundara: In Māyāpur?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That road goes to Berampur. That is called Berampur National Road.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: This is, this is... This world is material world. And (aside:) Why don't you come here? You can take another pad. (desires woman guest to sit comfortably)

Devotee: Would you like a chair?

Woman guest: No, it's okay.

Reporter: My question was that when there is no more people following their sva-dharma, their true self...

Prabhupāda: That anyone can do at any moment, any moment.

Reporter: Hm?

Prabhupāda: Any moment.

Reporter: Yeah. But then what is the action for the... Practical action, practical...

Prabhupāda: Practical action... If you give up... If a brāhmaṇa gives up sva-dharma, then it becomes a varṇa-saṅkara.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Conflict is there when you disobey Christ. That's why Christ said, "Thou shalt not kill." All the Christians are simply killing. Where is a Christian? There is conflict. They'll support: this killing is this, this isn't that, this isn't that (?). They want to kill. That's all. That is conflict. If you actually follow the tenets of Christianity, there is no conflict. But if you do not follow, at the same time you say you are not Christian, there is conflict. It is clearly stated—I've asked so many Christians—that "Why do you kill?" Christ said "Thou shalt not kill." They want to support their killing process in so many ways. They'll never agree that "Yes, Christ says not to kill. We should stop it." No. They want to support it by various interpretations. That is conflict. Clear word is there, "Thou shalt not kill." And why they're maintaining so many slaughterhouses?

Woman: But it's the same with Arjuna, wasn't it?

Prabhupāda: But you are talking of Christianity. Don't talk of Arjuna now. If you talk of Christianity, don't take support from Arjuna. You talk of Christianity. It is clear statement, "Thou shalt not kill." Why you are killing? "Thou shalt not covet." And illicit sex and illicit man and woman intermingling is going on. Who's stopping it?

Reporter: True.

Prabhupāda: Just see Arjuna—you are talking of Arjuna—before fighting, before killing so many things, he getting clarified. Ah? (Sanskrit) Just see, "Why shall I kill?" So you have to understand why you should kill, why you should not kill. (aside:) Hm. Read that.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: We Vaiṣṇavas, why should I say jagan mithyā? If God is true, what is created by Him, that is also true. Because Kṛṣṇa says bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca, bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā (BG 7.4). Me, "My." So why should I take Kṛṣṇa's things as false? If Kṛṣṇa is true, His things are also true. So we don't take that this material world is false. We don't say. Our philosophy is that this material world may be temporary, but because it has connection with Kṛṣṇa, it can be used for Kṛṣṇa's purpose. That is karma-yoga, bhakti-yoga. Prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ. Just like here is a microphone in the tape recorder. Now it is material. And if we say "No, no, we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, we cannot touch this material thing." We don't say that. Prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ. Everything has connection with Kṛṣṇa, so why shall I call it as material? Parityāga.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Reporter: Now people know only "French Connection," they're forgetting Kṛṣṇa connection. (laughs) Yes, very true.

Prabhupāda: But we see everything has got Kṛṣṇa connection. Therefore we utilize it for Kṛṣṇa. Just like you're talking about Kṛṣṇa, it is being recorded. So it is useful for Kṛṣṇa's service. Why should I give it up? Because the airplane is there, therefore my preaching has been easier. Every year I'm wandering all over the world, twice, thrice. Because if you use airplane. So why shall I give it up? It is giving me facility to preach my Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, why shall I give it up? It is mithyā. Just like the Jains, they do not ride on car, but if by going in a car I can go and preach, very swiftly, and come back again, why shall I give up this car? So our philosophy is not like that. Nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yuktaṁ vairāgyam ucyate. It is yukta-vairāgya. We have no attachment for all these things. We are sitting in this palatial building, that's all right. But you can talk things under the tree. But if I sit down underneath a tree nobody will come to me. (everyone laughs) So why shall I do that? This is our philosophy.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Reporter: Hm?

Prabhupāda: No, we don't want to discuss, but the thing is that...

Reporter: (laughs)

Prabhupāda: ...these politicians, they do not grow vairāgya, even up to the point of death.

Reporter: Yes, true.

Prabhupāda: I've seen Jawaharlal Nehru, Pantha(?)... They stuck to their position up to the point of death. Neither did they know that there is necessity of vairāgya. But Vedic philosophy says... All the ācāryas, they're all vairāgīs, either Śaṅkarācārya, Madhvācārya, Rāmānujācārya, they're all sannyāsīs. Caitanya Mahāprabhu. All vairāgīs. Even Jesus Christ, he was a vairāgī. Even Lord Buddha, vairāgī. This is required, but where is the vairāgya? They're simply attached to these material activities, and they're talking of high, high things. Their preliminary things is not finished, vairāgya. This is the first stage, vairāgya, bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra (SB 11.2.42).

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Just see. And where the money is going? To the Ahmadabad capitalists. That's all.

Reporter: Hm. Yes.

Prabhupāda: So frying pan. From frying pan to the fire.

Reporter: (laughs) Yes. Very true.

Prabhupāda: Everything is due to lack of God consciousness.

Reporter: Quite true. And therefore, nothing is working.

Prabhupāda: No. (pause)

Reporter: I'm not going by car, as you said. (everyone laughs)

Prabhupāda: Are you not plucking your hairs?

Reporter: I was plucking. Eighteen times, all these hair. Two times in the one year, plucking all hair.

Devotee: The whole head, you pull your...?

Reporter: Whole head, yes. It's an extreme form of a...

Devotee: Austerity.

Reporter: Ah?

Devotee: It's an austerity.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Revatīnandana: ...question that she said, he came to us because he was taking LSD and he had a false religious experience. And the question is now, if they have access to a true religious experience, why was he looking for a false religious experience? Why was Michael looking for a false religious experience from LSD if he had already got true religion? They didn't understand. Their best children are taking LSD because they can't get any satisfaction from their parents' religion.

Śrutakīrti: He answered that by saying he didn't have that supernatural grace.

Revatīnandana: Yeah, why not? That's pretty clear, actually. "Well, we love God. Yes, we love God." A steak and a glass of wine and God.

Śrutakīrti: I think a storm is coming.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Śrutakīrti: A rainstorm is...

Prabhupāda: Rainstorm? No.

Revatīnandana: Little, little... It might rain. It's not for a while. But when it gets misty, it sometimes rains.

Prabhupāda: You can understand from the cloud. When it's blackish, then there is rain. (Break) (end)

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. The human being has got the prerogative to awaken his dormant God consciousness.

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Cardinal Danielou: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So the best service to humanity is to awaken their God consciousness.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes, it is true, it is true.

Prabhupāda: Best service.

Cardinal Danielou: It is the necessity of internal conversion, yes, for human, human souls to return to God. But do you think that this, the personality of human soul is a personality permanent? That is, we remain always distinct, not separate from God, but distinct of God?

Prabhupāda: Distinct.

Cardinal Danielou: Distinct of God. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Just like you are distinct from me, I am distinct from you.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: The exact word, in Bengali, there is a poet,

kṛṣṇa-bhuliyā-jīva bhoga vāñchā kare

pāśate māyāra tare jāpaṭiyā dhare

As soon as the living entity forgets his position as eternal servant of God, and he wants to imitate God to enjoy, at that time, māyā, illusion, or Satan captures him, captures him.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes. Is true. The man must imitate God, imitating His bounty, His...

Prabhupāda: Power.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes. His mind and His knowledge of the spiritual sense. But it is possible to man without the helping of God to realize his perfection?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no.

Cardinal Danielou: It is necessary that the grace of God help the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. By the help of God, he can revive. That is stated in Caitanya-caritāmṛta...

Cardinal Danielou: Because man is, himself, is not capable to attain...

Prabhupāda: No.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Dr. Inger: No. Not here, in any case.

Prabhupāda: No, here, or India, or everywhere.

Dr. Inger: Yes. Nobody is...

Prabhupāda: So that means people have become so dull in spite of so-called education.

Dr. Inger: That is true.

Prabhupāda: That's, that's my point.

Dr. Inger: Oh yes. Education is merely book knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Mūḍhā.

Dr. Inger: ...of substance given, read, prepared.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No. So it is a wrong impression that to become Kṛṣṇa conscious one has to give up family relations. No, that's not the fact. Sometimes people think like that, but that is wrong thinking.

Anna Conan Doyle: (indistinct) mixed up...

Prabhupāda: Spiritual understanding does not depend on material conditions, no.

Anna Conan Doyle: That is true, that is true.

Prabhupāda: You may be in any material condition. Still you can develop your spiritual consciousness. That is there. But sometimes we accept a certain position for our personal convenience. That is another thing. But spiritual consciousness is not dependent on any material condition. It is spontaneous. Either he's a householder or a sannyāsī or brahmacārī or business man, or... It doesn't matter. He can become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious if he accepts the principles. (break) ...we have got our regulative principles, no illicit sex. So is it very difficult thing? A householder has got his wife. Why he should indulge in illicit sex? It is simply self-control. (aside:) You can keep it here. If somebody comes, you shall give him.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) Yes. Yes. Greediness. Atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ (NOI 2). Atyāhāra. Atyāhāra means eating more, or collecting more. So they want to eat more, collect more than necessity.

Anna Conan Doyle: That's true. They do not need all the things they have around. It is perfectly...

Prabhupāda: For livelihood, one has to work. That is material world. So you work. And what is that work? If one, one works for three months on the field, he can get his whole years' food. That is economically fact. How many mounds of grains we can produce per acre? Do you know that? We know, in our Indian calculation, we can produce at least ten mounds of grain per bighā. So if one has got ten bighās of land, he can produce hundred mounds of grains. So how much you can eat daily. Just compute it. Utmost two pounds. Utmost. So if you eat two pounds grains per day. In a month, sixty pounds. And eighty-two pounds makes one mound. You are getting one thousand mounds. One thousand mounds. Then? Ten bighās of land...

Bhagavān: One hundred mounds.

Prabhupāda: One hundred.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Hoons.

Pradyumna: "Andhra. A province in Southern India mentioned in the Bhīṣma-parva of Mahābhārata. It is still extant under the same name. Pulinda. It is mentioned in Mahābhārata, Ādi 174.38, that is the inhabitants of the province of the name, Pulinda. This country was conquered by Bhīmasena and Sahadeva. The Greeks are known as Pulindas, and it is mentioned in the Vana-parva of the Mahābhārata that the non-Vedic race of this part of the world would rule over the world. This Pulinda province was also one of the provinces of Bhārata, and the inhabitants were classified amongst the kṣatriya kings. But later on, due to their giving up the brahminical culture, they were mentioned as mlecchas, just as those who are not followers of the Islamic culture are called kafirs, and those who are not followers of the Christian culture are called heathens. Ābhīra. This name also appears in Mahābhārata, both in the Sabhā-parva and the Bhīṣma-parva. It is mentioned that this province was situated on the River Sarasvatī in Sind. The modern Sind province formerly extended on the other side of the Arabian Sea. All the inhabitants of that province were known as the Ābhīras. They were under the domination of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira and, according to the statements of Mārkaṇḍeya, the mlecchas of this part of the world would also rule over Bhārata. Later on, this proved to be true, as it was proved in the case of the Pulindas. On behalf of the Pulindas, Alexander the Great conquered India, and on behalf of the Ābhīras, Muhammad Ghori conquered India. These Ābhīras were also formerly kṣatriyas within the brahminical culture, but they gave up the connection. But the kṣatriyas who were afraid of Paraśurāma and had hidden themselves in the Caucasian hilly regions later on became known as the Ābhīras, and the place they inhabited was known as Ābhīradeśa. Śumbha, or the..." (break)

Prabhupāda: One Yavana fought with him, Kālayavana.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: As far as I have searched out from Mahābhārata... Yes.

Pradyumna: "The western Yavana joined with Duryodhana in the Battle of Kurukṣetra under the pressure of Karṇa. It is also foretold that these Yavanas, that these Yavanas also would conquer India, and it proved to be true. Khasa..." (break)

Professor: Now I understand exactly what the purpose of your movement is. I just wonder if you think the Western world is ready for this message?

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not ready? So many young men are coming.

Professor: So many, O.K., yes, but consideration of so many other people outside this temple...

Prabhupāda: No, any sane man will accept. This cult will not be accepted by the insane. One who is in quite order of the brain, he'll accept it. Only mūḍhas. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15).

Morning Walk -- August 30, 1973, London:

somebody informed him, "Oh I have seen such a vast mass of water." "Oh, is it bigger than this well?"

David Lawrence: Yes, beyond his conception.

Prabhupāda: These people are like frogs rotting in the well, and what they can understand of the Vedic knowledge?

David Lawrence: Yes. One of the themes, really, that interested me was this yearning, certainly it was true amongst the Jews, to return to a rural background, you know, to a rural sort of setting. I wondered if you felt much of the Vedas was in fact a firm belief an affirmation if you like, that the most true form of life, the most pure form of life is one that's lived alongside nature, not against nature as we seem to be doing in our urban setting.

Prabhupāda: What, I don't...

Śyāmasundara: In the Jewish tradition, they yearn for a life of living on farms, villages, small communities with cows and agriculture.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- August 30, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That's the difference.

David Lawrence: Yes. So it's using our experiences and refining them and distilling them and showing what the true value of these experiences is.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

David Lawrence: ...the true meaning of them.

Prabhupāda: In the gopīs' love with Kṛṣṇa, there is no lust. That is the difference.

David Lawrence: Reverence isn't it, reverence for Him.

Prabhupāda: Here, the so-called love is lust only. It is going on in the name of love. Actually it is not love. And because it is not love, therefore such kind of love does not continue very long. It breaks.

David Lawrence: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But we don't find in the history of spiritual world the love between the gopīs and Kṛṣṇa broke at any time. That is the difference.

Morning Walk -- August 30, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: When a man is himself mad, he'll find others mad.

David Lawrence: Yes, true. (laughter) Yes, he sees a reflection of himself.

Prabhupāda: If one is himself deaf, he'll think others are deaf. So ātmavat manyate jagat, everyone thinks the whole world is like him. Therefore they think Kṛṣṇa also like him. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). That is condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā that "These rascals, because I come in human form to benefit them, they take Me as human being." That is mentioned. But these things are taken like that by the mūḍhas. Mūḍhas means rascals, asses.

David Lawrence: Really they're just talking, as you say, from within their own experience.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- September 1, 1973, London:

Guest: Yes. And how do you know whether you're using it for Kṛṣṇa or not?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That requires training from the Kṛṣṇa's representative, guru. Just like these boys are being trained up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So it requires little training. Just like you are mathematician. To make another student mathematician, you have to train him. You have to teach him how to calculate two plus two equal to four. It will never be five. If somebody says, "No, my calculation is two plus two equal to five." Will it be accepted?

Guest: I'm afraid sometimes it can be true. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: How it can be true?

Guest: One plus one can equal three.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest: One plus one can equal three sometimes.

Prabhupāda: Is there mathematical calculation?

Guest: I know that it's ah... I mean things reproduce. Life is not so fixed, not so rigid. But one does have to be trained, it's true. Training is, some people can understand and some people cannot understand.

Prabhupāda: That is difference of understanding.

Guest: Yes.

Prabhupāda: The fact is true. But if I cannot understand, that is my misfortune.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Howler? Yes. So, there is little logic there, as a human being can understand. That's all. And if we accept this theory, that logic, our logic is imperfect, we cannot understand, then we have to accept authority. Just like a child. Mother says, "Here is your father." There is no logic. There is no logic. He has to accept. Only the mother version is logic, That's all. Authority. Is it not?

Guest (1): Yes, that's true.

Prabhupāda: Then where there is no logic, the authority must be accepted. Therefore we accept that authority. Śabda-pramāṇa. The best evidence. Śabda-pramāṇa. There are different evidences. Out of that, veda-pramāṇa, śabda-pramāṇa is first class. All right, thank you very much. Jaya.

Mukunda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, Pearl has been attending our temple and following the regulative principles.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Ambassador: Because we have got to be... We should not be misunderstood. As a government, we should not take too strong a policy about any particular religion, even though it is the religion of the majority of the people.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. It is the duty of the government... Secular state means neutral to any kind of religion. But it is the duty of government to see that people are religious. Not that "Because government is secular, let the people go to hell."

Ambassador: No, that's true.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you are Muslim, and, it is my duty as government to see that you are actually acting as a Muslim. If you are a Hindu, it is the government's duty to see that you are acting as a Hindu. If you are a Christian, it is the government's duty. You cannot give up religion. Dharmena hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. If people become irreligious in the name of secularism, then they are simply animals. So it is the government's duty to see that the citizens are not becoming animals. He may profess a type of religion. That doesn't matter. But he must be religious. That is secular state. Not that secular state means government is callous, "Let the people become cats and dogs, without religion. Government doesn't care." That is not good government. What do you think?

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: But Marxist materialism, does it mean a congregation of some fools and rascals?

Ambassador: I think so, true.

Prabhupāda: Does it mean they like that some congregation of fools and rascals? Such a big professor, he does not know, he cannot understand even that there is life after death. He has to accept another body. As we are accepting different bodies. I was a child. You were a child. Then I became a boy. That is different body. Different consciousness also. A child, three-four years, he talks in a different way. A boy, ten-twelve years, he talks in a different way, and a young man, educated young man, he talks in a different way. So with the change of the body, the consciousness is changing. Is it not?

Ambassador: Yes.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Ambassador: But in the countries like Moscow, Soviet Union, they are hostile, against it, but in most countries of the world, they're indifferent. It's...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Why Moscow? Everywhere. Moscow, they are, rather, good that they say, "We don't believe in God."

Ambassador: That's true, that's true.

Prabhupāda: But others, they say that "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," "I believe in God," but he does not know anything.

Ambassador: I'm afraid most of us are like that, to be honest. That's true.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) I should say that Moscow are gentlemen. Because they cannot understand, they say, "Don't believe."

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: So many thatched cottages, small. So Bombay government has given them home, that "You come here, live." But what do they...? they rent to some, another man, and they live in the... In Madras also, I have seen.

Ambassador: I know. That's true.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They don't like. They don't like. They want to...

Ambassador: They roam, yes. It's what the gypsies did, you know.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ambassador: When they were given houses in Moscow.

Prabhupāda: So there are different prakṛtis. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). So there are different prakṛtis, different mentality. They want to live, eat. The eating, sleeping, mating, defending is there, but everyone has got different ideas. Just like you say, majority of people, they want to eat meat. They have got different mentality. But we don't want.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Ambassador: Most people are...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. In India, they're now being educated to eat meat. (Ambassador laughs) Otherwise, Indians, at least, Hindus...

Ambassador: It is true. That's true.

Prabhupāda: Eh? They are being educated.

Ambassador: (laughing) I belong to vegetarian family. I eat meat now.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, in Madras, I have seen...

Ambassador: Most of them...

Prabhupāda: Mostly they are vegetarian, strictly vegetarian. Actually, in Southern India, they maintain the Hindu culture. You'll find big high-court judges, they have got tilaka.

Ambassador: That's true.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: And still, if I am correct, in Madras, they, there, there is not many Mohammedans. The Mohammedan culture could not enter...

Ambassador: That's very true.

Prabhupāda: ...into Madras, Southern India. And you'll find also in our Caitanya Caritāmṛta... Now I am translating. When Caitanya Mahāprabhu went to Southern India, practically whole Southern India became Vaiṣṇava by His preaching.

Ambassador: It is a great period of...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. And all the ācāryas, they came from South India. Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya. I think Madhvācārya belonged to your province? Malaya?

Ambassador: No, Śaṅkarācārya came from...

Prabhupāda: Śaṅkarācārya.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: He said, he came to see me that "Now we have rejected Dr. Radhakrishnan."

Ambassador: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because everyone has speculated in his own way. Therefore we have presented Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. And if you have got time, we can read some of the portions, how we have presented as it is. So people are liking this As It Is. Otherwise, Bhagavad-gītā is well-known in the western country, all over Europe. But because it was not presented as it is, there was not a single devotee of Kṛṣṇa. You find out, the whole history. Bhagavad-gītā is meant for making the reader a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Is it not?

Ambassador: That's true.

Prabhupāda: Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So who can become fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa unless he's a devotee? So it is a transaction between God and His devotee. That's a fact. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). These are the clear declaration. He's asking everyone, "Just become My devotee. Always think of Me. Offer Me obeisances." Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī. "Worship Me." Māṁ namaskuru. He, He is deprecating the worship of demigods. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ. Find out this verse. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ prapadyante 'nya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām: (BG 7.23) "Less intelligent persons, they simply worship the demigods." This is the statement.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Ambassador: I know. Anāsakta-yoga is really...

Prabhupāda: He should not take advantage of... That is being done. Everyone is taking advantage of the popularity of Bhagavad-gītā and he's expressing his own opinion.

Ambassador: That's true.

Prabhupāda: This is going on. We want to stop this nonsense. If you have got opinion, you write different book.

Ambassador: Yes. But not...

Prabhupāda: Why you should misuse Bhagavad-gītā.

Ambassador: The devil can quote the scripture for his purpose.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Ambassador: That's what Shakespeare said, sir, "The devil can quote the scripture for his purpose."

Prabhupāda: That's it. Yes. That's a fact. Yes, why you should try to introduce your philosophy... Now, say, for Gandhi's non-violence. Where is non-violence in Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Ambassador: (laughs.) It's... Yeah, this is true. Ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ, dharmo 'hiṁsā tathaiva ca. (?)

Prabhupāda: So our, our point is that you may express your own op... Everyone has got right to... Especially Mahatma Gandhi, he was actually a great personality. There is no doubt about it. But so far Bhagavad-gītā is concerned, he did not know anything. But from his behavior, it was seen that at heart he was a devotee. Yes. At heart he was a devotee. Yes. Because he was chanting...

Ambassador: Yes, of course, he, of course, shares with you this belief in chants. That we noticed, yes, very much in...

Prabhupāda: That raghupati rāghava rājā rāma.

Ambassador: Vaiṣṇavism.

Prabhupāda: Ah. So that... But maybe for politics, he has explained like that.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Ambassador: Yes, that's true.

Prabhupāda: All his plan is finished. Read it.

Ambassador: Anāvṛṣṭi, avṛṣṭi-bhuj.

Prabhupāda: And that is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: anāvṛṣṭi, durbhikṣa and kara-pīḍita. One side, there will be no rain, and there will be scarcity of food grain, and government will tax heavily. In this way, people will become mad and they will give up their hearth and home and go to the forest. This is the foretelling also. This is going to happen. Actually, people are being perplexed in that way. There is scarcity of food, and there is scarcity of rain, and government tax is increasing every year.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Ah, two parāṭās.

Ambassador: Because you have done it so well.

Prabhupāda: Prasādaṁ prāpti-mātreṇa bhoktavyam. That is the Vedic injunction. Even it is brought from distant place, even it is dried up, even it is touched by the untouchable, still it should be taken immediately.

Ambassador: Yes, that's true...

Prabhupāda: Prasādaṁ prāpti-mātreṇa bhoktavyam.

Ambassador: Remember how Kṛṣṇa received Sudāmā?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ambassador: When he brought the...?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ambassador: Have you been to Kerala ever?

Prabhupāda: Yes, I was in Cochin. While coming to New York, I came on ship. So my ship stopped in Cochin. Yes.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) Bhāgavata verse, janmādy asya (SB 1.1.1), asya janmādi (indistinct) concise word but volumes of meanings. Volumes. Each word is like that. Vidyā bhāgavata-vali(?). Therefore one's learning is complete when he reads Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Otherwise he remains imperfect, in spite of all learning. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), from where? Now the creation of this cosmic world, from where? But you do not know from where. This is explained in Bhāgavatam. Paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. That is actually true. In this way simply if you analyze one verse, you'll find each word is full of volumes of meaning. Janmādy asya yataḥ, anvayāt (SB 1.1.1). Like the creation, anvayāt, directly and indirectly, itarataś cārtheṣu, in the matter of understanding, abhijñaḥ. Abhijñaḥ means completely cognizant. That is the Absolute Truth. He knows everything—how this universe is created, how it is maintained, how it annihilated, directly and indirectly. Just like, I always, regular, everyday thing, when I am massaged by my student, I see so many veins so I think that I claim, "This is my leg," but I do not know what are these veins.

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sometimes you have to take...

Reporter (2): So that's the reason why? It makes the mind lighter?

Prabhupāda: No. Actually if you keep clean yourself, then your mind is also clean.

Reporter (2): But it is... Is it really because hair presses down on the mind? Is that true?

Haṁsadūta: It's a burden, troublesome.

Reporter (2): I mean a physical burden.

Haṁsadūta: Just like you have to get some, some hair cream and then a comb and a mirror and...

Reporter (2): Well, I don't. I just get up and go like that. But I mean, I mean, I mean...

Haṁsadūta: You understand the point.

Reporter (2): Well, I mean. I do and I don't. I mean physically...

Haṁsadūta: Very clean, very clean...

Reporter (2): ...physically, it makes the hair, it makes the mind lighter. Is that true?

Haṁsadūta: Very clean, cool. Natural, practical.

Reporter (2): No, I know, but I mean, this thing about it actually weighing down on the mind, is that fair to say?

Haṁsadūta: No.

Reporter (2): It's not fair to say?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Indian Guest -- October 4, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's it. That's it, that...

Guest (1): The vibration comes the same, but one poet may write a poetry of a very high..., you know, Shakespeare...

Prabhupāda: I've got... I made...

Guest (1): And another can be a lower form. But both of them are true. For me, even in the lower poetry's true, the higher is true. But it is a question of gradation merely, where the man has reached to.

Prabhupāda: Well, everything is true, but higher true, or lower true?

Guest (1): Both are true.

Prabhupāda: Both are true, but both are not the same thing. Then why higher and lower?

Guest (1): Because of his evolutionary stage.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Then higher must be taken as higher, lower must be taken as lower. Just like a child's mental condition and his father's mental condition, they are not the same thing.

Morning Walk -- December 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Yaśomatīnandana: If these people are allowed to live forever then they will make this place more than a hell, worse than hell.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) God has given them everything actually, to live peacefully and try to understand God, but that they will not do. They will do something to try to forget God. That is their aim.

Yaśomatīnandana: Prabhupāda, is it true that if a person is very sinful, he reduces some years from his life? If a person is very, very sinful, extremely sinful, then he reduces some...

Prabhupāda: Reduce or increase, what is the profit?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We see the practical example. If you are alcoholic...

Prabhupāda: Even if you reduce or increase, suppose you are to live for hundred years, if you make it hundred and ten, so what is your profit? And if you are to live for hundred years, reduce time ten years, so what is the profit? You cannot live here, that is a fact, reduce or increase. This is all nonsense. What is increase? The trees, they have more longer period, increased the period, of life. Is, that kind of living is very profitable? What for increasing? To suffering? Your life is already suffering. Why you are covering this body? You cannot stand here, open body. That is suffering. You are trying to save yourself from the suffering. This is life, struggle for existence. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). Simply struggle. So if you increase your life for struggling again, then what is the profit? This is... The rascals, they do not understand. Even if you increase, what profit you will get? Your life is all suffering. So the foolish persons, they cannot understand. The real problem is how to stop your suffering, reduce or increase, it doesn't matter. But that you cannot do. You'll have to die. This is your suffering. Nobody wants to die. You have to become old man. Suppose an old man, suffering from so many diseases, and he increases his life.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Well, preaching, you cannot manufacture preaching. You must do preaching according to the principles ordered by your spiritual master. You cannot manufacture your own way of preaching. That is required. There must be some leader. Under the leadership. Yasya prasādād bhagavat... Why it is said? Everywhere, in the office, there is some immediate boss. So you have to please him. That is service. Suppose in office, in a department there is office superintendent. And if you do in your own way, "Yes, I'm doing my business," and the office superintendent is not pleased, do you think that kind of service is nice? No. Similarly, we have got, everywhere we have got immediate boss. So we must work. That is systematic. If everyone manufactures, invents his own way of life, then there must be chaos.

Sudāmā: Yeah, that's true.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now we are world organization. There is spiritual side, and there is material side also. That is not material side. That is also spiritual side, means systematic management. Otherwise how it will be done? Just like Gaurasundara sold the house, and there is no trace of the money. What is this? He did not ask him, anyone. He sold the house, and where is the money, there is no trace. (break) Ah, Hare Kṛṣṇa. What is that badge? Tennis?

Devotee: It's not a badge. It's the only sweater I...

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice. Yesterday I received one letter from Rūpānuga Mahārāja. He's preaching very nice. Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Then, if he's in ignorance, what is the value of his offering?

Umāpati: I did not hear the last point.

Hṛdayānanda: If he's in ignorance, what is the value of the offering?

Umāpati: That is true.

Hṛdayānanda: He needs a spiritual master.

Umāpati: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You cannot do anything in ignorance.

Umāpati: But then the spiritual master gives him knowledge...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Umāpati: ...and then from that knowledge he becomes aware that...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...just like the sunshine is open to everyone, but if you do not take advantage of it, that is your fault. Sunshine is not meant for, specifically for any person. It is open to everyone. But if you purposefully close your door, and do not see the sunshine, that is your fault.

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes, Prabhupāda, but there's only one earthly planet, and you have conquered it already.

Umāpati: Is not a true Vaiṣṇava also a sannyāsī? Would you explain the difference between them?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Umāpati: Is not a, one who is truly a Vaiṣṇava, is he not also a sannyāsī by his...?

Prabhupāda: Sannyāsī, sannyāsī is in the material platform, and Vaiṣṇava is in the spiritual platform.

Umāpati: So then the Vaiṣṇava is superior to a sannyāsī?

Prabhupāda: Yes. He's not sannyāsī. He's above sannyāsī.

Umāpati: Oh. But a Vaiṣṇava would always offer his respects to a sannyāsī. Is that not true?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa was offering respect to His elderly persons. That is etiquette.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: He's śūdra, paricaryātmakaṁ karma śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). As soon as one accepts service of a master, immediately śūdra.

Yaśomatīnandana: True brāhmaṇas even didn't care for kings.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yaśomatīnandana: They didn't care for the honor from king or they didn't, they would...

Prabhupāda: They would give advice to the kings but never accept the post of a king.

Hṛdayānanda: So every kṣatriya had to have something to manage?

Prabhupāda: Yes. There was a regular advisory committee, privy council, composed of high learned brāhmaṇas and saintly persons.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the perfect consciousness.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like the yogis. They live in the Himalayas without any cloth. They take bath in ice water. They don't feel anything.

Prabhupāda: No.

Prajāpati: But is it true, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that sometimes the spiritual master has to suffer if his disciples act in sinful ways?

Prabhupāda: The same way. Bodily suffering. Infection. The spiritual master accepts the all infection. So as the infection acts on the body, so there is little suffering. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). Kṛṣṇa says, "All the sinful reaction of the surrendered soul..." So spiritual master is the representative of Kṛṣṇa. So he has also to accept. (break) ...the injunction is one should not accept many disciples. But for preaching work we have to do that. (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...to finish my thesis, so I won't be able to come every day in the morning.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. You do your duty. (break)

Prajāpati: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I'm so sorry that you have to suffer cause we're such rascals.

Prabhupāda: No, no. I'll not suffer.

Morning Walk -- December 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Here is electric light also. So what is the benefit? Light, you have got so many lights. So what is the benefit? If you remain in the darkness, then what is the benefit of this light? Light means you are not in darkness. But you are in darkness. If you have got the light, then you can see Kṛṣṇa. But why do you say that by Kṛṣṇa consciousness we cannot see Kṛṣṇa. Rascal. We may not see. But you have seen the light, why don't you see Kṛṣṇa? Do you know what is Kṛṣṇa if you have seen Kṛṣṇa?

Hṛdayānanda: It's true, Prabhupāda. They are in darkness because they cannot check their material activities by seeing the light. They go on with sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: Light. We have go so many lights. What is the benefit of seeing the light?

Jayatīrtha: They only call us so that we'll arrange to bring some prasādam.

Prabhupāda: They do not supply prasādam, these rascals? (break) Everyone can see. So if Guru Maharaji is light, then why everybody does not follow? If he is light, light can be seen by everyone. Just like sunlight, moonlight, we can see. Everyone can see.

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So then how do you say that life is from matter? That cannot be proved by experiment.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is why they are going to prove it. They are trying to prove it.

Prabhupāda: Then again, "going to prove." They cannot prove, they'll not not admit it.

Sujit: See, astrology, I think, what he said is half true. Astrology is a science but it is not an exact science like mathematics and chemistry.

Prabhupāda: No, No, it is mathematics. Astrology is simply based on mathematics. Exactly.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: To calculate the planetary...

Prabhupāda: Just see. The comet...

Sujit: It is from astronomy.

Prabhupāda: Astronomy, yes. Astrology is part of astronomy.

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No. We believe in astrology. But because it is a difficult science, people do not understand it properly. That is another thing. In my practical life I see. In my horoscope, everything is written, what I am doing. Everything is written. So...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That would be called like genius. Sometimes. If somebody can predict what is going to happen in the future, can be, just like, taken...

Prabhupāda: No, these astrologers can give everyone exact, the history of life, what is going to happen, what happened.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But it is true, though Śrīla Prabhupāda, in our family life, when we want to do something, they always go to a...

Prabhupāda: Astrologer. Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And then they... (break) (end)

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: We have all the theology then. This is theology.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You present Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in true perspective. Then it will be perfection of your education. The so-called theologicians, they cannot understand God. It is not possible. That is not the way, that "I put my theory." He does not understand his value first, that "What is the value of my theory? If I am imperfect, so what is the value of my theory?" He does not understand the first principle, and he puts theory. Another rascal, he is putting theory. So what is the value of these theories?