Prabhupāda: Manifestation of Kṛṣṇa in five expansions. Kṛṣṇa can expand Himself. Not only Kṛṣṇa, even a perfect yogi he can also expand. Not as many as Kṛṣṇa. But a perfect yogi, from the scriptures we can understand that a perfect yogi can expand himself up to eight, up to nine forms. There was one Saubhari Muni. The Saubhari Muni he used to perform yoga practice within water. There were many sages who used to practice. Somebody within water. Somebody surrounding fire and in the midst. That means voluntarily putting the body into trouble, and at the same time executing yoga practice. They were so much advanced that in spite of all material trouble they would be able to execute spiritual duties. Saubhari Muni was sexually agitated within the water by the fishes. So he came out of the water, and the neighboring king, I forgot the name, he went there and demanded the king that "I want to marry your daughter. So give me your daughter."
Trouble (Conversations 1968 - 1973)
Expressions researched:
"trouble"
|"troubled"
|"troubles"
|"troubling"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So you have to convince people like that, that it is not a sentimental institution. We are teaching the thing which is very absolutely needed for the human society. As soon as one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, his personal questions and problems are solved. And if others adopt the same principle, then social-political questions are also solved. So we have to teach. They will say it is not practical. Why not practical? No, anything is not, not practical. There are so many scientific... You discovered. Just like this tape recorder. This is advantageous to the human society. But it is not practical that everyone will have a nice tape recorder. That is not practical. But when you go to manufacture, say the discoverer, "Oh, that it is not practical; therefore it should not be manufactured." Similarly, Kṛṣṇa consciousness may not be practical for all, but that does not mean it should not be preached. The customer will take. Just like this tape recorder, one has got money, you have purchased, taking advantage. Similarly, there are many pious persons who can take Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like you have taken. You are not ordinary common men. There must have been some pious activities in your past lives. Therefore you have taken to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness seriously. Bhagavad-gītā says, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ. (BG 7.28) A sinful person cannot understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is said, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ. One who has completely vanquished all sorts of sinful reactions. Now, the question may be that whether one can finish all sorts of sinful reactions within this material world. No, that is not possible. But it is possible also. What is that? That is also answered in the Bhagavad-gītā that "You give up everything. Surrender unto Me. I shall give you protection from all sinful reactions." So I may be sinful and there are so many reactions awaiting me for giving me trouble, but as soon as Kṛṣṇa takes charge of me, then everything is finished. How it can be finished?
Prabhupāda: No. I am not very much optimistic. Almost I say it is impossible.
Reporter: But if the impossible happened and they were able to safely land on the moon's surface do you feel they would have any difficulty or encounter any trouble with the beings that you say live there?
Prabhupāda: The trouble is already there. You are going with great difficulty and if you land there you may die immediately. Everything is finished. You are already encountering the difficulty. It is not very easy. The Russian scientists, the American scientists, they're trying for the last ten years. Still, they have not approached the moon planet. So difficulty is already there.
Reporter: Yes, there are difficulties but still people feel...
Reporter: I think it's to do what I said and also the fact that it's there, and it's reachable and why not go there? You know. Why climb a mountain?
Prabhupāda: You can go there, but if you take the trouble of going there, why not live there? Because the place is more comfortable than this place.
Reporter: Why leave there because the place is more comfortable than this place?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. The duration of life is more, the standard of living is fine, everything is, knowledge advanced.
Hayagrīva: He's saying, if you're going to take the trouble to go to the planet, why not go to the planet that you can live in with your present body, and why go someplace where you have to make so many accommodations with spacesuits because the atmosphere is not conducive to our...
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes, you can... Because... Have you seen how the... You have no experience here in your country. Have you got any experience? But in India we have got experience how in the morning the cowboy takes some food from the mother and with the cows he goes to the field. The cows are let loose on the grazing ground. They are enjoying, and this cowboy is sometimes singing. The flute, Kṛṣṇa's flute is because He is cowboy. The cowboys still play in that flute. In India you'll find. Because the cows are let... They are doing their own work, and what this boy will do? They are playing. There are many cowherds boys, they are playing. Sometimes playing on flutes, sometimes sporting, sometimes eating. So Kṛṣṇa was exactly doing like that. All the cowboy friend went with Him. Kṛṣṇa was, of course, a very rich man's son. His father was very rich. So He used to take with Him very nice foodstuff, lugdoo, kacaurī. And other, His poor friends, they were taking capātīs, dry capātīs. (laughs) So they were enjoying, dividing, "Your food, my food, his food." And sometimes there was some trouble in the forest because Kamsa was after Kṛṣṇa to kill Him. He was sending his assistants. So some asura would come, Bakāsura, Aghāsura, and Kṛṣṇa would kill.
Prabhupāda: And the boys would return and narrate the story to their mother. "Oh, my dear mother! Such and such thing happened and Kṛṣṇa killed it! Very..." (laughter) The mother will, "Oh, yes, our Kṛṣṇa is very wonderful!" (laughter) So Kṛṣṇa was their enjoyment. That's all. The mother is speaking of Kṛṣṇa, the boy is speaking of Kṛṣṇa. So therefore they did not know anything but Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa. Whenever there is some trouble, "Oh Kṛṣṇa." When there is fire, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa." That is the beauty of Vṛndāvana. Their mind is absorbed in Kṛṣṇa. Not through philosophy. Not through understanding, but natural love. "Kṛṣṇa is our village boy, our relative, our friend, our lover, our master." Some way or other, Kṛṣṇa. That is the beauty. Therefore Śukadeva Gosvāmī is describing the playing of the boys.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There must be some relation. Without relationship one cannot exist because he is part and parcel. Just like persons in the prison house. They are not out of government. There is relationship with the government, but that is indirect. The criminals, they do not appreciate the service of the government. Government is bothered about his existence. Some extra... Instead of receiving some service from him to the state, the state has got to spend unnecessarily for him. That is a botheration. So those who are in indirect relationship with Kṛṣṇa, they are botheration. They are simply giving trouble to Kṛṣṇa, but there is relationship.
Hayagrīva: Is the humorous direct or indirect? One in humor?
Prabhupāda: Humor, humor is practically in every direct relationship. And indirect also, there is humor. "I am thinking of you as enemy"—that is also another type of humor. (Chuckles) Yes.
Prabhupāda: Consult, consult.
Allen Ginsberg: I can't even understand an authority that says that I am there when I don't feel myself there.
Prabhupāda: Well, suppose when you are in some legal trouble, you go to lawyer. You cannot understand. Why do you say you cannot understand? Where you have disease where do you go to a physician. You see? Authority you accept.
Allen Ginsberg: In America we've had a great deal of difficulty with authority.
Prabhupāda: No that is, that is...
Allen Ginsberg: No, here is a special problem.
Prabhupāda: Neither Kṛṣṇa says that He is Indian.
Lady: He didn't say, "I am Indian." It's universal. It's not Indian. Oṁ is not Indian. Anybody who wants to know oṁ, how to say oṁ. See?
Prabhupāda: So you have to accept little trouble to utter Kṛṣṇa. That's all.
Allen Ginsberg: I'm willing.
Prabhupāda: We have taken so much trouble for understanding English language. And simply for our transcendental understanding...
Allen Ginsberg: It's next to Santa Claus in the dictionary.
Lady: Yes, Kṛṣṇa is Santa Claus. He is everything. He gives everything.
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Prabhupāda: Actually India was one, but we see now it is Pakistan. And some day another "stan" will be divided. So this is going on. So sarva-loka, in all planets, all the planets, actually that is God's place. Nobody's place. We come here empty-handed; we go empty-handed. How we can claim? Suppose you have given me this place to stay. I stay for one week, and if I claim, "Oh, this is my room," is that very nice thing? (laughs) There will be immediately some disagreement, trouble. But you have kindly spared this room. I am living here. I can comfortably live, enjoy. And when my necessity... When I go, there is no trouble. Similarly, we come here in the kingdom of God empty-handed; we go empty-handed. Why we trouble that "This is my property, this is my country, this is my world, this is my planet"? Why we claim like that? Is it not insanity? Wherefrom the claim comes? So Kṛṣṇa says that sarva-loka-maheśvaram: "I am the Supreme Lord of every place." And suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ (BG 5.29). And He is the real friend of every living entity. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). As a friend, He is sitting within your heart.
John Lennon: I mean, we can only judge on a material level by looking at your disciples and looking at other peoples' disciples and looking at ourselves, you know. And, of course, if there's thirty disciples, seven of them look fairly spiritual, another ten look okay, and the others just look as though they're having trouble... You know. So there's no...
Yoko Ono: It's the same thing.
John Lennon: We still have to keep sifting through like sand to see whose got the best matter, or...
Prabhupāda: Try to understand this, that regarding authority, you say that how to find out the authority. To answer this question, Kṛṣṇa is authority. There is no doubt. Because if Kṛṣṇa is an authority, Maharsi takes also Kṛṣṇa's book and Aurobindo takes Kṛṣṇa's book, Vivekananda takes Kṛṣṇa's book, Dr. Radhakrishnan takes Kṛṣṇa's book. So Kṛṣṇa is authority. Śaṅkarācārya also takes Kṛṣṇa's book. You know Śaṅkarācārya's commentary on Kṛṣṇa? And in that commentary he accepts, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28), sa bhagavān svayam kṛṣṇaḥ: "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead."
Prabhupāda: What is God? God... Can you define God?
Guest (3): No.
Guest (2): I think the trouble is... God is this...
Guest (3): Is God supposed to be energy or is God supposed to be...
Prabhupāda: Energy is God's energy. Just like sun and sunshine. Sunshine is the energy of sun. Just try to understand. The energy, sunshine, and the sun is not different. But still if you are satisfied with the energy sunshine, it is not sun. Try to understand this philosophy.
Guest (3): Are you saying that energy is God? God is energy?
Prabhupāda: Then... These paintings are first-class, these paintings.
Brahmānanda: Is that one first-class there, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: No.
Satsvarūpa: What's the trouble?
Prabhupāda: The trouble is that Kṛṣṇa's body is... Why it is made so big? Why the others, inhabitants of Vṛndāvana, smaller?
Satsvarūpa: He's supposed to be up in the front. He's supposed to be in the front, and they're all behind Him. But it mustn't be done well enough.
Prabhupāda: Well, that is... Do you think that is represented? Kṛṣṇa did not show His gigantic body. As He was, He lifted. Yes.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That's nice. Our students, they have very quickly given up the four principles of sinful activity. And that is actually surprising to all these so-called sannyāsīs also. They are surprised. They cannot give up tea-drinking, smoking. Still, they are passing on as spiritually advanced. They are still servant of smoking and tea and they have become God. Just see the fun. "Nārāyaṇa." They address one another, "Nārāyaṇa. (laughter) You are Nārāyaṇa. I am Nārāyaṇa. There is no trouble because you are Nārāyaṇa." So begin. (break) Others not, your father.
Child: My grandfather.
Prabhupāda: So aśakti...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. So we have to organize. First of all let us publish in one city, big city like New York, like London, yes, Bombay, Tokyo. Big cities, world's big cities. In India only two cities are big: Calcutta, and Bombay, important. If you publish simultaneously, Calcutta... Delhi is given importance due to capital; otherwise not important as big city, as Bombay and Calcutta. Delhi, without government offices it is a dead city. Just like Washington. What is the value of Washington? It is nothing. Simply because it is headquarters of the President, it has got importance. Similarly, Delhi is that. Otherwise it is not important. But Calcutta, Bombay, is really important city in India, big business, port, all rich men, every kind of, all cultural, everything—Calcutta, and Bombay. Originally only Calcutta, now Bombay also. Because the Britishers, they made Calcutta capital. And Calcutta was very, very important city. But these Calcutta men, they create sometimes situation, very complicated. So once in 1905 the same situation was there, politically. Sir Surendranath Bannerjee made, Surendranath Bannerjee's movement, partition of Bengal. Lord Collier, he wanted to divide Bengal, made it East Bengal and West Bengal. And Surendranath Bannerjee... He is the practically father of Indian politics. Gandhi's not. He was. He was. And in the beginning, in European circles he was famous. He was called "Surrender-not." The spelling of the name, s-u-r-e-n-d-e-r, Surendranath. In Parliament he was known as "Surrender-not." He was a very powerful politician. So there was trouble in Calcutta; so therefore they transferred, 1911, capital to Delhi.
Prabhupāda: The story is a mouse came to a saintly person: "Sir, I am in trouble. If you kindly release me?" "What is that trouble?" "A cat, they are after me. I am always at risk of life." "So what do you want?" "You also make me a cat." "All right. You become a cat." Then again he came. "Sir, again the complaint is here." "What is that?" "Dogs are chasing me." "Then what do you want?" "I want to become a dog." "All right. You become a dog." In this way he came up to the tiger by the benediction of the... And when he became a tiger, he was... (snarling sound-laughter) Just like our Brahmānanda Prabhu. "All right. Again become mouse." You see? So these civilization is like that. They became tiger, and they are so much badly trained up that they have to become again a mouse. That is the way. That is the way of nature. If you don't improve yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you again become stool worms.
Prabhupāda: No, but if you are going to die, then you can take.
Yamunā: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: When required for such trouble, if you are going to die, then, to save yourself, you can.
Devotee (6): If that liver can be eaten raw...
Prabhupāda: If you are going to die. Not ordinary. If it is clear that without liver extract you shall die, you can take.
Devotee (4): You cannot tell. You can't tell until you actually (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Because when there is question of death it is recommended you may take anything to save your life.
Prabhupāda: Therefore it is not advancement, although they are very much proud of advancement. This is not sign of advancement. According to Bhagavad-gītā it is said, yasmin sthite guruṇāpi duḥkhena na vicālyate: (Bg. 6.20-23) "If one is situated in such a position that even in the greatest, gravest type of dangerous position, he is not agitated, he is not agitated, that is the real happiness." Yasmin sthite guruṇāpi duḥkhena na vicālyate. These are the words, yasmin sthite: "Situated in such a position that although he is facing greatest danger, he is not agitated." There is one instance. Not very long ago, say, about two hundred years ago there was a big zamindar. He was known as king in Krishnanagar. So he was charitably disposed. He went to a brāhmaṇa and asked him—he was a great learned scholar—"Can I help you any way?" And the pandit replied, "No. I don't require your help. I am quite satisfied." "How you are satisfied?" "Oh, my, these students, they bring some rice. So my wife boils that, and I have got this tamarind tree. I take some leaves and prepare some juice out of it. That is sufficient." So he was satisfied. That's all. But he was a learned scholar. Similarly, Canakya Pandit... You have perhaps heard. He was the greatest politician. He was prime minister of India. He was living in a cottage and just giving instruction. So that is India's Vedic civilization. Everyone is satisfied, self-sufficient. And now in your country, oh, you have to attend office fifty miles off. And because you have to take this trouble, Kṛṣṇa has provided with car. You are thinking, "I am advanced."
Prabhupāda: Simply, wherever you go, (makes traffic noise) "sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh," and "gonh, gonh, gonh, gonh, gonh." Up in the sky, "gonh, gonh, gonh, gonh," and in the street, "sonh, sonh..." And then, when digging, "gut-gut-gut-gut-gut-gut-gut-gut-gut!" (laughter) Is it not? Don't you feel botheration. But they are thinking, "Oh, America is very much advanced in machine." And when there is that garbage tank? "Ghon-ghon-ghon-ghon-ghon-ghon-ghon-ghon-ghon!" (laughter) So many sounds are going on, always. Eh? Of course, you have got very nice city, nice roads everywhere. But this trouble... You have created so many troubles. And there are news that one lady was a patient. She became mad for the sounds. And I think they are thinking very seriously how to stop all these sounds. Is it not?
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, no. I mean to say, take our present position. You were born, I am born, he is born, everyone. Are we not born foolish? What do you think?
Guest (2): The only sense is cry...
Prabhupāda: So many ways we do not know. There is some trouble, I am crying, child is crying, and the mother knows that, "He is suffering. Give..." Seeking the help of the mother. Then we are going to a school. The father is training, mother is training. Are you not born foolish? In the Bhāgavata says, abodha-jātaḥ: "born foolish." Everyone is born rascal. So if he does not take help from the authorities how he can make progress? You have become lawyer by sitting at home?
Guest (2): No, no, I take tests for many time. I look at books and I take test for one year, twelve, fourteen hours.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Now you are finding mistake with Vyāsa, so who can talk with you?
Guest (2): No, but, but...
Prabhupāda: Please excuse me. Please go out. Please go out. Don't trouble. You are finding faults with Vyāsa.
Guest (4): We only want you to be understood here.
Prabhupāda: (shouting) I am not sama-darśi! I don't say I'm sama-darśi! I don't say, sama-darśi. So you say sama-darśi. Sama-darśi.
Guest (2): You should be sama-darśi.
Prabhupāda: But I am not in that stage. I say because you don't surrender to Kṛṣṇa, you are sinful. That is my darśana.
Prabhupāda: ...my Guru Mahārāja was in his last days, these rascal doctors injected... Our, this Kuñjabihārī, Tīrtha Mahārāja brought so many big, big doctors. And he protested, "Why are you giving me injection?" He protested. He personally said, "Why are you giving me injection?" And if you bring a doctor, the rascals will not stop. "Oh, that is our treatment. We must try our best." They will plead like that. "To give more trouble to the patient, that is our business." Inventing new medicines means inventing new means of giving trouble. That's all. As soon as you ask them whether by injection the life is guaranteed, they will say, "No. There is no guarantee. Let us try, make experiment." Yes. In hospital, as soon as you get (microphone moving)... Whatever nonsense knowledge they have got, they make experiment, at the risk of other's life.
Prabhupāda: The sense of form. Because your brain is congested with impersonalism, you cannot understand what is spiritual form. That is your defect.
Guest: That is the trouble.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (Hindi) All hodgepodge things should be...
Guest: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore... (Hindi) What is this intellect? It is ignorance. This is not intellect. It is ignorance. You are accepting something wrong. That is ignorance. Ignorance is jñānavān. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). That is knowledge. This is ignorance. He does not know Kṛṣṇa. And one who does not know Kṛṣṇa, he has no value of his knowledge. Bhāgavata says, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ (SB 7.5.31). Knowledge, what is the target of knowledge? To go up to Viṣṇu, to understand. Tad viṣṇuṁ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti surayaḥ. Those who are actually intelligent, they are simply observing the Viṣṇu form. This is Vedic mantra. So unless you reach to that point, your knowledge has no value. It is ignorance.
Prabhupāda: God is not your order-supplier. You create war and pray to the church. Why you create war? Precaution is better than... Unless you Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you will... Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1). You will encroach upon other's property. That pāpa-bīja has to be killed. Now, after creating war... What is the use? After creating war by your own fault, if you go to the church and pray God, "Please save me," so who wanted you to create this war? They are creating their wars, and they are making God as order-supplier: "Now I have created war. Please stop it." Why? Did you do it by the sanction of God? So they must suffer. How can you make God as your order-supplier? You create something by your own fault and you ask God to come and save you. What is your answer? That is... That is, means, sva-karma-phala-bhuk. You have created something: you must suffer for that. You have created some disease: you must suffer it. Why you violated the law of nature and created your disease? Is it not a fact that when you eat, overeat, and you have got so many troubles in the stomach, then you must suffer for some time. You have created that disease.
Prabhupāda: So you see or else why this poor fellow should be given unnecessary trouble. What is this? Huh?
Dayānanda: Cardamom seed.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Yes. (devotees offer obeisances)
Prabhupāda: What is the price of a closet?
Karandhara: A closet? How big, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Not very big.
Karandhara: Maybe forty dollars.
Prabhupāda: Steel?
Karandhara: Oh, steel. Probably more than forty. Like a locker? A locker like this or a closet like this?
Prabhupāda: Closet.
Prabhupāda: But we cannot become pūjārī...
Śyāmasundara: Under their, under their direction. That's the trouble.
Dhanañjaya: So they have, they have already installed a Deity. They have a Deity of Vasudeva in the Hindu Center, but He's not dressed. He's standing with cakra, but He's not, He's not clothed very nicely, and the room is not decorated very nicely at all. He's just standing there. And they asked for a pūjārī to come and look after. But they..., you see what they're thinking, they're thinking, "Oh, we're pious. We're pious for acquiring Deity." You see? "Deity is only for the lower class people, so they can see, or they will be reminded that God is here. But we already know that God is here." So they turn and sit with their back to the Deity and they talk like this, and the Deity is here.
Prabhupāda: No. They, as Dhanañjaya said, that are not willing to cooperate with us.
Prabhupāda: Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahād guṇā (SB 5.18.12). If one is Godless, he cannot have any good qualities.
Revatīnandana: Supposing somebody has got smallpox. Smallpox means sores appear on the body and very high fever also. So one doctor who's less intelligent says, "He's got a fever because he has sores." So he puts medicine on the sores. Sores go away and the man dies. Another doctor says, "He's got sores and a fever. This means he has got smallpox." So he gives him some medicine to cure the disease, and then the sores automatically go away. The root cause of all... There are so many troubles in the world. The root cause is Godlessness. People are not God conscious.
Śyāmasundara: Materialistic life is so bothersome. All the time some trouble.
Prabhupāda: Just like in hog civilization. That's all. They are thinking that "We are very happy eating stool." But others know that what kind of happiness he is enjoying. Similarly these rascal karmis, materialists, they are thinking by... What is called? Kini...What is called? Naked skirt?
Devotees: Miniskirt?
Prabhupāda: Miniskirt, trying to show the private part and people will be attracted and she will be happy. This is regular prostitution. Regular prostitution. Still they are not getting husband. Even they walk naked... That will come. Say after fifty years it will come like that.
Śyāmasundara:They are starting already some places, walking naked.
Dr. Weir: The problem is that you only have the opportunity of hearing or reading what somebody else has said what they have said. So you're back again on the trouble of diversity of observation and opinion.
Prabhupāda: No. So far we are concerned we are receiving knowledge directly from God. Just like Bhagavad-gītā. It is accepted, spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore if you take conclusion from the speeches delivered by the Supreme Personality of Godhead that is fact. That is very easy authority. Just like the other day I was explaining to Mr. (indistinct) You are searching after who is your father but if you simply ask your mother, "Who is my father?" The truth is immediately disclosed. Immediately.
Dr. Weir: Being a lawyer, I would say that that doesn't necessarily follow.
Prabhupāda: Why?
Dr. Weir: In the same way, how can you satisfy a person's lack of emotional content in his job by giving him more money? Half of the trouble starts with the jobs, is they have no emotive content now because there's no rapport between them and their boss. They have practically no intellectual interest because they've a routine job in a factory. And you know they are really deprived in a sad way.
Mensa Member: Then what worries lots of people about lots of religions is the (indistinct) for example of pointing a finger at the (indistinct) choosing the finger with the (indistinct)
Dr. Weir: One of the difficulties, and I think this is true when I was saying simple people, using that in a broader sense, some people cannot get anything at all unless they have a little picture. You know, it helps them; not like the dear old lady who found...
Prabhupāda: That we give, the picture. Here is God.
Dr. Weir: The trouble is, aren't you going to lead yourself into this difficulty: if you are spiritually satisfied you would sit down and do nothing and if everybody were doing that we should be rather back to where we started rather than have enough food or music or transport.
Prabhupāda: That is for the voidist, not for the spiritualist. The spiritual life there is enough activity for even scientists. That they do not know. They mean spiritual life is void. That is negation of the present activities only, negative idea. But actually when you stop material activities your real activity begins. That is spiritual life. The spirit, spirit soul is active. You cannot stop it. You cannot stop it. Now it is acting through the coverings of material, matter, therefore it is imperfect activities. But if the activity is uncovered by material things that is real activity.
Mensa Member: But aren't desires biological in cause?
Dr. Weir: They're necessary.
Mensa Member: Yes, but they're biologically necessary rather than spiritually necessary.
Prabhupāda: There is no light, no heat without fire. That's a fact.
Mensa Member: Everybody (indistinct) I think.
Dr. Weir: Yeah, you see, that's the trouble. You can say really that there's no light or heat without an electrical movement that's as far as you need. You needn't go any farther.
Mensa Member: No, the point you were making is that the absolute source of everything is the sun. Was that...?
Prabhupāda: That is heat. That is fire.
Mensa Member: Even if it's not there now, it was there a thousand years ago.
Śyāmasundara: It's gone through about the different transformations.
Prabhupāda: Nadia. I do not know whether it is (indistinct). So we are being indirectly disturbed.
Dr. Singh: That must be because there's more trouble there and (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: But why must they... The government should know what I am doing. Whole world is appreciating, except my government. They are so unfortunate.
Dr. Singh: It is always the home is the last one always, you know what happens with prophets. They are always respected more abroad.
Mālatī: But the point is, we are..., he is taking from this country the greatest thing and giving. It is not like he is exploiting in some materialistic effort. Rather he is giving the greatest thing from this country.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Somebody must be there. So monkeys, they are now taking advantage, that these people have got some eatables. Therefore, Darwin's theory is from monkey. That's a fact. From the monkey, cow, and lion, the next birth is human life. So vimṛśya loka-vyasanaṁ kṛpaya ucuḥ sma satriṇaḥ, they began to discuss how to mitigate the troubles of the people. They began to discuss that aho ubhayataḥ prāptaṁ lokasya vyasanaṁ mahat. People, they are now disturbed both ways. One way, the king is a rascal. Another way is that taking advantage of the bad king, the thieves and rogues, they are also very powerful. So just see how the saintly persons became compassionate to the people that they are both ways. Actually at the present moment, people are disturbed by unnecessary taxes, at the same time bad elements. So without proper king, without nice state, everyone is unhappy. And that is going on nowadays. In the Kali-yuga, it will go on continual, and more and more people will be unhappy.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: So that is one of the main troubles.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: But I think any religious movement like yours, people think they can buy up the grace of God by giving some money. Right? So you won't find any difficulty in getting money, because there is air of sin in the world, and the sinful people think they can compromise by giving money. Let them give.
Prabhupāda: That is also good.
Guest: Let them give. That..., but that is the smallest point. Another point is, I suppose in each institution, in each center, there are men as well as woman...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Guest: And they live together.
Prabhupāda: Not together. Woman's section is different.
Prabhupāda: ...have no attachment. These are all nonsense. You cannot be (indistinct). A living being, to become desireless, how you can? I am living. I am not a dead body. Desire should be to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Attachment should be for Him. That's all. You have to change. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You have now attachment for sense gratification, desire for sense gratification. This has to be changed. Purification of desire, purification of attachment. Tat paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). Eyes, because it is diseased, you don't pluck out. This is nonsense. Cure the eyes of the disease, then you will see things right. The Māyāvādī philosophy is pluck out the eyes. Buddha philosophy is make it zero. That is also same thing, plucking out. Our philosophy is "No. Cure it." That is the difference. It is very simple. Which one is better? Just like a man is suffering from disease, fever, and doctor gives him medicine. He dies. Then the patient's guardian says, "Sir, he is dead now. You have given some medicine, he is dead." "That's all right, fever is gone. Fever is gone. Never mind he is dead." (laughter) These rascal philosophy statement is like that. Make zero. Make imperson. Then the difficulties of personality... Because they have got very bad experience of personality here. He had to become minister, he has become king and this and that, householder, all botheration. So make imperson. That's all. Negation. Personality is giving us trouble, so make imperson. God must be imperson, because as soon as we have person, there is trouble.
Prabhupāda: The whole human life is meant for purifying. Śuddhyed sattva. Sattva means existence. So if you don't purify your existence, then you'll have to change your body, from this body to that. Sometimes it may be higher, sometimes lower. Just like, if you don't cure your disease, it can take turn in so many ways to put you into trouble. Similarly, if you don't purify your existence, then you'll have to transmigrate from one body to another. And there is no guarantee what kind of body you'll get. Very subtle laws of nature. Now there is no guarantee that you will get a very comfortable body or American body, no. Therefore for human being it is essential that he should purify his existence. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyed yasmād brahma-saukhyaṁ tv anantam (SB 5.5.1). Unless you purify your existence, you're hankering after happiness, you cannot get continued happiness. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: You see, Kṛṣṇa says that ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). So Kṛṣṇa's so powerful that He can immediately take up all the sins of others and immediately make it gone. But when a living entity plays the part on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, he also takes the responsibility of these sinful activities of his devotee. So to become a guru is not an easy task. You see? He has to take all the poisons and absorb. So sometimes, because he's not Kṛṣṇa, so sometimes there is some trouble. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu forbidden that "Don't make many śiṣyas, many disciples." But for preaching work we have to accept many disciples, for expanding preaching. Never mind we suffer. But that's a fact. The spiritual master has to take the responsibility of all the sinful activities of his disciples. So to make many disciple is a risky job unless he's able to assimilate all the sins. (pause) (break)... patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo. He takes responsibility for all the fallen souls. That is... That idea is in Bible. Just like Jesus Christ take all the sinful reaction of all people and sacrificed his life. That is the responsibility of spiritual master.
Prabhupāda: That is, I am talking about my Guru Mahārāja.
Bob: Oh, oh, I see. (break) ...question on prasādam, if I may. Let us say if some devotee has some trouble and does not eat a certain type of food. Like some devotees do not eat ghee because of liver trouble. So these devotees, should they take all the prasādam?
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. I say those who are not perfect devotee, they may discriminate. But a perfect devotee does not discriminate. So why should you imitate a perfect devotee? So long you have discrimination, you are not a perfect devotee. So artificially why should you imitate a perfect devotee and eat everything?
Prabhupāda: No. So good karma means performance of the yajñas as they are prescribed in the Vedic literature. And this purpose of this yajña is to satisfy the Supreme Lord. Just like good citizen means one who satisfies the government. Law-abiding. Good citizen. Similarly, good karma means who satisfies Lord Viṣṇu, the Supreme Lord. Unfortunately, the modern civilization, they do not know what is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and what to speak of satisfying Him. They do not know. They are simply busy in material activities. Therefore, all of them are doing only bad karma, and therefore they are suffering. They are blind men and leading some other blind men. And both of them are expanding the path to hell by bad karma. Bad karma, you suffer. That is very easy to understand. If you do something criminal, you'll suffer. If you do something benevolent for the state, for the people, then you are rewarded, you are recognized, you are given title. Sometimes shot. This is good and bad karma. So... (microphone noise) ...some material happiness, and bad karma means you suffer from material distress. By good karma you get birth in good family, janma. You get riches, good money. Then you become learned scholar, you become beautiful also. Sit down. There is some trouble with your leg? What is that?
Prabhupāda: Similarly, the central stomach of the whole creation is God, or Kṛṣṇa. He's the enjoyer and He's the friend. He's maintaining everyone. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Therefore He's friend of everyone. And everywhere... He is maintaining means everywhere He's the proprietor. Just like a king can maintain the whole country, citizens, because he's the proprietor. Without being proprietor, how he can become everyone's friend? So these things have to be understood, that Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer, Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor, and Kṛṣṇa is friend. If you know these three things, then your knowledge is full. You do not require to understand anything more. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3). If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa by these three formulas, then your knowledge is complete. You don't require any more knowledge. But people will not agree. "Why Kṛṣṇa shall be proprietor? Hitler shall be proprietor. Yayha Khan should be proprietor. (laughter) Nixon shall be proprietor." That is going on. Therefore you are in trouble. But if you understand these three things only, then your knowledge is finished. But he'll not accept, he'll put forward so many impediments for understanding these three things. And that is the cause of our trouble.
Prabhupāda: Then he is a demon.
Indian man (2): But, you see, the trouble is he is well read, and he has tried to make a very good unchallengeable sort of a case, and I tell you that nobody from Vṛndāvana has yet been able to come out with a cogent reply. We have yet to find out an answer to two important question that he has raised: one, as to whether this principle of Pañca-tattva has been mentioned anywhere in the works of the Gosvāmīs prior to Caitanya-caritāmṛta; and two, this (indistinct), whether this has also been mentioned anywhere before. Both these he says have been borrowed by Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī. They have been introduced under the influence of Buddhism, prevalent so much.
Prabhupāda: How he gives quotation from Buddhism?
Indian man (2): No, he...
Prabhupāda: But he says from Buddhism.
Prabhupāda: Gaura-Nitāi, these two brothers, Gaura and Nitāi. There are Pañca-tattva: Śrī Caitanya, Nityānanda, Śrī Advaita, Gadādhara, Śrīvāsa, five tattvas. So rādhā kṛṣṇa bol bol, bolo re sobāi, ei śikhā diyā: "This is the teaching of Lord Caitanya." And he says, jay sakal bipod: Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, the composer of this song, he says that "you get out of all kinds of dangers," jay sakal bipod, gāi bhaktivinod, jakhon o nām gāi. "If you simply take to chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra." And at last he says, rādhā kṛṣṇa bolo sañge calo: "Please cooperate with Me," Lord Caitanya says, "and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Ei mātra bhikhā: "I am asking all this. I am begging." So our mission is like that. The same thing. We are asking people without any argument or political purpose or social or... No. Simply we are asking that you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Wherever we are opening our branches, it is our only business that we are requesting people to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa or Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. We don't want anything. We don't want to do any business, but we are simply spreading this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra because people are being washed away. māyār bośe, jāccho bhese. They are being washed away, khāccho hābu, always in trouble. Khāccho hābuḍubu bhāi. Jīv kṛṣṇa dās e biśwās korle to'ār duḥkho nāi: "But if you try to understand that your position is eternal servitude to Kṛṣṇa, then your all troubles are over." This is our mission. So wherever we are preaching this instruction of Lord Caitanya, people are accepting. I saw one nice article published in some paper here?
Prabhupāda: Lord Caitanya is preaching simply this, that you all chant Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, or Hare Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Ei śikhā diyā, sab nadīyā phirche nece' gaura-nitāi. "By teaching this philosophy, the two brothers, Gaura-Nitāi, are traveling all over Nadia." Māyār bośe, jāccho bhese', Khāccho hābuḍubu bhāi. "Why you are being carried away by the waves of māyā? Why, unnecessarily? And you are being drowned and saved." Jīv kṛṣṇa-dās, e biśwās, korle, "Simply believe that you are eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, then all these troubles immediately gone." Bolbe jabe, pulak ha'be, that "If you chant this, then you will feel ecstasy." Rādhā kṛṣṇa bolo, saṅge calo, ei-mātra bhikhā, "So I don't ask you anything. Simply chant and come with me." Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Have you got puffed rice? No.
Devotee (2): In the shop. You have to get it from the shop.
Śyāmasundara: The devotees, they don't care. They'll go across the desert hitchhiking, but Kṛṣṇa gives them happiness. They're happy.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is happiness. They are going for Kṛṣṇa, that is happiness. They forget the trouble.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Today he's gone again. (break)
Prabhupāda: Don't be doubtful about this at least. You may do or not do, but at least you be convinced that this is the nicest thing we have got. And there is no comparison.
Śyāmasundara: And the more we experience it, the more we become convinced.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: There is no argument, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: It's just the conditioning of the mind, the trouble of the mind.
Prabhupāda: That is different. That is different. Manodhara. Manodhara means those who are conditioned by the mind, their statement is not accepted according to our philosophy. Because he has no value.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: They have to be cured.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: They have to be cured.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Crazy.
Devotee (1): For fuel.
Prabhupāda: That's all. For burning. There is no fruits and flowers. (break)
Devotee (1): ...come on shore and get drunk and make trouble. They have their own police.
Prabhupāda: Military has their own police.
Devotee (1): Yeah.
Prabhupāda: They are so pious and advanced in civilization, the students require police. The dean has publicly requested police, and still they are very much proud of advancement.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: The police steals too.
Prabhupāda: When everything is settled up.
Sumati Morarjee: When you are settled, when is the ship due, and we want to send. So, there won't be any trouble in port?
Prabhupāda: That he'll clear up.
Sumati Morarjee: You better clear first.
Devotee: Yeah...
Sumati Morarjee: Otherwise what happens.
Devotee: Kṣīrodakaśāyī knows.
Sumati Morarjee: Government of India doesn't allow any import of car in India, otherwise (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: His, his admission is that I am the guru of the Americans. I have no car. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: That I explained last time, that they are simply misusing their advancement, and they are satisfied when they have got a motorcar instead of bullock cart. That's all. They think, "Now I am advanced. We had bullock cart, now we have got motorcar with three hundred thousand parts. And every part will give me trouble as soon as it is (indistinct)," (chuckles) and that is advancement. As soon as one part is broken, the bullock cart is called for. They get a bullock cart to carry this motorcar. (break) Everyone is servant. Therefore, we teach our students to address "prabhu." "I am your servant, you are my master, prabhu." That is the meaning of prabhu. Prabhu means master. And Prabhupāda means supreme master. That is the meaning.
Jayatīrtha: In this country there's a saying that everyone should be their own master. That's the philosophy. It's called individualism.
Ambassador: Yes, well that's right, and I'm so grateful to you for that lovely book. That's a beautiful book. I'll keep it out here on my table. Maybe I will send... You know, I had a young man here that was having trouble to extend his visa, and the government said to him, "What are you here for?" He said, "I am here to find myself." They said I should have sent... He's a hippie...
Mrs. Keating: This would be perfect.
Ambassador: So I said, they said when they were in last time, you should have sent him to us, which I would do again, because it's...
Guru dāsa: Then that hippie will become happy.
Mrs. Keating: Will become happy, yes.
Ambassador: Well, Your Divine Grace, thank you very much for stopping to see us.
Prabhupāda: Thank you.
Ambassador: Very nice of you. And nice to see you.
Śyāmasundara: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: The other point is that when we manage these things, there are many guṇḍās in Vṛndāvana. They will try to create some trouble. Just like yesterday. You were present? This boy was fighting with one man. You were not present?
Gurudāsa: No. What time was it?
Prabhupāda: When the minister came.
Gurudāsa: I was not here at that time.
Prabhupāda: Tried to pick up quarrel. (break) You have not met?
Gurudāsa: Yes, I have met him. At Janmāṣṭamī two years ago at New Vrindaban.
Pañca-draviḍa: He is coming in the third shift.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Prabhupāda: Yes. So this cheating process is going on. But you cannot cheat Kṛṣṇa or māyā, that is not possible. It is gosvāmī, that is (indistinct) Don't make compromise that somehow or other just chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, everything will be done. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Duratyayā. It is very difficult to surmount the laws of nature. So how is that achieved? Just like laws of nature are so strict, if you eat more, immediately you get indigestion. So how you can cheat? You can experience. Nature's law is working. Therefore, to become brāhmaṇa means satyam. You know the meaning of satyam? Satyam means truth. The first quality is he is truthful. Satyaṁ śaucam ārjavam āstikyaṁ jñānaṁ vijñānam. The beginning is satyam. Generally the people in pilgrimages like Vṛndāvana, they have taken this religiousness as a profession to earn money, just like other businessmen do. That is cheating. Generally they do so. In Los Angeles they are keeping the standard given by ourself. At every āratik in early morning, at least 150 men. Even though I am not present, by system, by kīrtana, dancing, offering Deity worship nicely (indistinct). So we have to maintain the standard very strictly. Otherwise it will again become Rādhā-Dāmodara temple and Bharatpur Mahārāja (indistinct). You will have to find out some customer to sell it. What is the use of starting temple if you do not do it properly? Why should you waste your energy? Better travel and preach. Don't take the risk of starting big, big temple. As soon as the energy is gone, there will be trouble.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, there are no more chairs. (indistinct)
Devotee: Yes, I guess that's best.
Prabhupāda: People are coming, so will you kindly take the trouble to, inside sitting?
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes, thank you very much. (to guest:) You don't take charge of that.
Devotee: We will take that. (break) Yes. This is Mr. Ivy Mastram and he is in charge of the Hindu and Buddhist Department of the Department of Religion. And this is his next-in-command, director-general, Mr. G. Puja. He was educated in India also.
Prabhupāda: Oh, really. Which city?
Guest (2): Benares (indistinct) University.
Prabhupāda: Oh, Benares University.
Prabhupāda: They think that: "My danger is over. Because I do not see anymore." Yes. So many animals, they die. Monkeys, rabbits, they die. When there is danger, they close the eyes. That's all. So similarly these rascals, they cannot make any solution of these problems, therefore they set aside. Don't trouble. What is this advancement? They are constructing big, big houses with a hope they'll live in this house comfortably. But any day we'll be kicked out: "Get out." What he can do? Why he's laboring so much? Suppose if you are constructing some house, if somebody says that you are going to die tomorrow, will you do it?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I don't (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: No sane man will do it. But death is sure. You are making very nice foundation. But you'll have to leave. You cannot remain there. That, they do not know. Jawaharlal Nehru worked for... Gandhi worked for his country so much. Now where they are? Nobody knows.
Prabhupāda: Suppose he knows the cause of cancer. What is the benefit? Neither he can stop cancer, neither a man suffering from cancer, if it is cured, he will live forever. That is not possible. Cancer or no cancer, a man has to die. He cannot check death. The death may be caused, if not cancer, simply by accident you can die. The real scientific research should be how to stop death. That is real scientific. That we are giving. To find out some medicine for some disease, that is not triumph. Real triumph is how to stop disease. That they cannot. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā puts before you the real trouble is this birth, death, old age and disease. That process we are giving. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). After giving up this body, no more acceptance of material body. This is real science. (break) ...suffer from cancer. (laughter) They don't suffer from cancer. So they are in better position than the so-called human society. They are creating causes of cancer disease and then making research and taking Nobel Prize.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. But they say there is no form. That is my point.
Krishna Tiwari: Well, they don't know probably, at this moment. But I don't..., I..., we have trouble, at least I have trouble, in understanding whether anybody else knows about soul. According to you...
Prabhupāda: Now, so far we are laymen, we have no instrument to measure. We simply hear from the śāstra and we try to perceive, that's all. But there is something. That measurement very, may be very, very small, but there is the substance. That is our point.
Krishna Tiwari: Right. But, I mean, with due respect to śāstras, after all, in my opinion śāstras are written by very intelligent people, and how so ever intelligent they would have been five thousand years ago, they could not have...
Prabhupāda: Not five thousand years.
Prabhupāda: But we know.
Krishna Tiwari: No. That's the difference. (laughter) What we do not know, we are ready to agree that we don't know. The trouble comes when people know nothing and they say they do know.
Prabhupāda: No, we know. Now why..., how do you say no? We know.
Krishna Tiwari: No. This is your belief, and I'm not...
Prabhupāda: It is not belief.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: You can believe that too.
Krishna Tiwari: Yes. But who? The book... You see, the difference is philosophically. As far as the philosophy of the Bhagavad-gītā is concerned, fine. But when since we start talking about somebody controlling, and identifying somebody with somebody, I have troubles, as everybody else does.
Prabhupāda: Well, no, no trouble. First of all, we have accepted that we are under the control of laws of nature. That is a fact.
Krishna Tiwari: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Now we say... Not we say; our Vedic literature says that there is a controller of the laws of nature.
Krishna Tiwari: Oh, I don't know about that. Maybe. Me, I don't know about that.
Prabhupāda: You don't know. Why don't you know? You must know. You must know. Here it is said.
Prabhupāda: Your process. Your process is, you are trying to ascend. But we are taking knowledge from directly God. That is the difference.
Krishna Tiwari: That's where my trouble is, and I...
Prabhupāda: No, no, your trouble must be there.
Krishna Tiwari: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Because you're godless.
Krishna Tiwari: Oh, no. Not true.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is your problem.
Krishna Tiwari: Not true. Not true.
Prabhupāda: That is your trouble.
Krishna Tiwari: No, no... Okay, go on saying like that. Fine. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also indirect praising. But you can praise Him directly.
Śyāmasundara: I think part of the trouble with our modern age is that no one has any information about God.
Prabhupāda: They do not know what is God.
Śyāmasundara: They can't praise Him directly because they don't know what He looks like or what He does. (Prabhupāda is still eating.)
Prabhupāda: What is this, behind the halavā?
Śrutakīrti: Behind it?
Prabhupāda: Hm? Something is coming out, white?
Prabhupāda: I think I am eating more here. (laughter) Is it not?
Trivikrama:. Yes.
Prabhupāda: I could not eat, in India.
Trivikrama: Apparently, it's not causing any trouble either.
Prabhupāda: At least, not yet.
Trivikrama: Not yet.
Prabhupāda: That means I must have improved. Otherwise, how I am eating? I could not eat.
Śrutakīrti: No hunger.
Prabhupāda: No hunger.
Prabhupāda: Therefore when we are in doubts, therefore we have to refer to the authority. Just like when you are diseased, so you go to the physician, "What is the cause of my this trouble?" Similarly, when you are in doubts, you have to approach an authority to clear the doubts. Otherwise you will remain in doubts, ignorance.
Mr. Wadell: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Therefore our Vedic injunction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Tad-vijñānārtham, in order to clear the doubt, to be in perfect knowledge, one must approach the authorized bona fide spiritual master.
Mr. Wadell: Can we go back to the physician. It is possible for a physician to be wrong.
Prabhupāda: Yes, we are always in wrong because we are born ignorant. Everything is wrong because ignorant, foolish. Madman's conception. This is all wrong, childish. Therefore we send our boys, children, to school, to correct the wrong ideas.
Mr. Wadell: I accept that without any trouble. There's no...
Prabhupāda: The difference is God... In the Vedas it is stated that God is just like a person like you and me. Just like we are persons, we are talking face to face, similarly, God is also a person. But... We are also persons. But what is the difference between these two classes of persons.
Mr. Wadell: Exactly.
Prabhupāda: Yes, the difference is eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. God is the maintainer, the supplier of all necessities of the so many persons. That is God.
Mr. Wadell: Yes, I accept that.
Prabhupāda: It is meant for him.
Guest (3): You read Guru Mahārāja's Bhagavad-gītā, so simple. Even the child can understand who knows English. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...trouble to the poor animals. Why the poor animals should be killed? They have got equal rights. But these rascals, they will not give equal rights. (break)... National means one who is born in that land. The animals are born in that land. Man is also born in that land. Trees are also born in that land. But they are not national. Only human beings national. Imperfect knowledge.
Guest (4): In Luton, before eighty years... When I was reading the history of Luton, on the page number 176, it was written that there was a great shortage of food before eighty years, and in some place people were cutting their own children and eating.
Prabhupāda: Huh?!
Revatīnandana: It happened. In Scotland there is one university, Stirling University, and the queen visited there. And she was treated in a very insulting way by the students, and as a result of that, the university and those students, they were put into a great deal of trouble afterward. Of course, the queen is not supreme anymore, but she still is sufficient.
Prabhupāda: No, no, I am giving an example. No, officially, she is the supreme of England. That you cannot deny. If you do so, then your position, you know. Similarly, anything... "Call a spade a spade." If everyone says that this is electric lamp, and if you say, "No, I don't say," then what can be done?
Student (3): We can see an electric lamp, but we can't see Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: And so... Real intelligence is that to know "what I am." "I do not want to suffer. Why suffering in this world is imposed upon me?" This is intelligence. Take, for example, nobody wants to die. Why death is forced upon him? Nobody wants to die. If there is now news immediately, "Now this house will collapse," immediately we shall fly away. Because we don't want to die. If we understand that this house is going to be bombed immediately, we'll immediately leave. If there is earthquake... So many things. So nobody wants to die. But death is sure. So what solution they have made? I do not want to die, and death is forced upon me. So what solution we have made. What is, what is the scientists have done in this connection? Psychologically, if I do not want to die, then I must find out some way that death will not bother me. That is intelligence. You are talking of intelligence. Therefore I am explaining what is intelligence. Intelligence means "I do not want something, but it is being forced upon me. How to check it?" That is intelligence. Actually, the whole world is going on, we do not want to suffer. But suffering is there. Three kinds of suffering. One kind of suffering is called pertaining to the body and mind. I don't want to be diseased, but there is, all of a sudden, there is disease. Diarrhea. I don't want it, but it is imposed. This is suffering. Due to the body. Some discrepancies. Mind... Body's sound, but mind is not sound. Mind is "Oh, I don't feel today very nice." You see. This is one kind of suffering. Another suffering: other living creature gives you some pains. There are so many. Some of your friends, he turns to become your enemy. He puts you in difficulty. Or there are so many animals, so many insects. They give us trouble.
Prabhupāda: Yes. At night they were guests. They were talking very friendly, and there is no enmity. But in daytime they'll fight. (laughter)
Buddhist Monk (1): Yes. Gautama the Buddha, whom I follow, who is my teacher, a poor man came, and he found him panting, asked him, "Well, what's the trouble?" "Oh, I've got news that you're here. I want to see you." And the Buddha found that not only had he run... He asked him, "When did you last have a meal?" He said, "That's quite a few days ago." He said, "We cannot preach on empty stomachs. Ānanda, give this man a good meal before he could come to me." And this fine virtue of hospitality, much as we have treasured in the past, when people leave their shores, they are inclined to forget this. I've been addressing various groups. I do not confine myself to Buddhist groups only.
Prabhupāda: ...why not they? National. National means a living entity born in particular country. So at the present moment, the national means only human being. The animals are not nationals. They are being sent to the slaughterhouse. So this kind of sinful activities are going on. Therefore renunciation means to give up these sinful activities. That is real renunciation. Otherwise, you cannot renounce anything. You have to live. And that is allowed at the cost of God. Everything belongs to God. You are son of God. So you live. But don't encroach... Mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam. That is the instruction of Īśopaniṣad. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ (ISO 1). Everything belongs to God. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. So you have got the right to enjoy what is allotted for you. Don't encroach upon others' right. This is renunciation. But they are encroaching upon others' right. Especially the human society. And that is the cause of all troubles. Because they have no God consciousness, they have no sense about God, and there is no sense about next life... What is your opinion about life after death?
Śyāmasundara: Sunday afternoon or something.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: More time.
Lord Brockway: Don't trouble to get up.
Prabhupāda: No, no. I...
Lord Brockway: And thank you very much indeed. Thank you.
Prabhupāda: You're so kind. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Take him to the car. Go.
Lord Brockway: And good-bye, all. (end)
Reporter: Yeah. But the trouble is that politicians are not interested in Indian culture; they're interested in power.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they're mūḍhas.
Reporter: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). So India cannot be happy being guided by the duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ narādhamāḥ. It is not possible. This request I made to Gandhi That "You are..." People accepted him as a spiritual man all over the world. So if Gandhi would have taken this movement sincerely and scientifically, it would have grown thousand times.
Reporter: Yes, yes. But that... What Gandhi said? Did he reply to your request?
Prabhupāda: No.
Prabhupāda: I work at night, writing books. My work is going on. At night, I write. (break) In the UNESCO, to understand God or spiritual life, they do not think it a necessary?
Dr. Inger: Well, that's a very, very important question. I think that the real trouble is that all of them are bureaucrats, sitting in offices, creating more jobs for other officers. I was one of the earliest members. I came when Dr. Radhakrishnan was the, was our president. And... At the very early stage. In those days, there was that feeling, that some importance should be given, but because it became a governmental organization, because every religion thinks that they should have a part to play in it, what they did was, they brought out, in ten volumes, a scientific and cultural history of mankind. But it has, it's only incidentally philosophy, only incidentally religion.
Bhagavān: The trouble with these philosophies is these philosophers are simply stubborn.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Bhagavān: The problem with these different discussions is these philosophers are simply stubborn. When they hear a better philosophy, they still will not change.
Prabhupāda: That, that is independence. That is also independence. You accept: "Yes, what you say, it is right. But I'll not accept." That is also independence, misuse of independence.
Yogeśvara: Like Dhṛtarāṣṭra, when he heard the arguments from Vidura.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So God's creation is perfect. There is no imperfect.
Yogeśvara: (break) ...that are steps, but the order itself doesn't require that you give up meat-eating at any point. He says he thinks that the people themselves would probably give it up in the higher stages. He says that their order has a very smart way of doing things, that if they were to try and tell people, "Don't do this, don't do this, don't do that," right away, nobody would join them. So they don't say that. (break) They fall away gradually by themselves. (break) ...quotes a passage from St. Paul who said if you go and visit someone who is a meat-eater, don't trouble him. Accept meat with him. The real mystic is someone who has controlled his body.
Prabhupāda: That he cannot explain, how to control the body. (break)
Guru-gaurāṅga: ...it happens right away, it will happen in awhile.
Prabhupāda: At least, I cannot accept this. (break) ...if there is definite program. (break) The thing is that if I want to enter your association, you must give me some prescription which if I follow, I'll make progress. So that is another thing. But you have no prescription. (break)
Śyāmasundara: The ones that have automobiles and...
Guest: They're the Ditticoys.
Harry: Right. They're our Ditticoys. But if you get any trouble with them, let me know.
Śyāmasundara: Yeah. Well, two came around here once when we first moved in saying that Mrs. Ruffles had promised them that they could paint the place. And we thought it was a little suspicious the way they were talking. And we watched them. They were looking mostly at the lead, I think, in the glass. Finally, we told them to get off and not come back. But, a little suspicious of...
Harry: Umm. Yeah. This, if you do get them, let me know. 'Cause I'll soon warn them off.
Śyāmasundara: (laughs) Yeah.
Harry: I'll soon push them off. Unless, of course they want to come here as a visitor.
Revatīnandana: They do steal sometimes, eh?
Harry: Steal?
Revatīnandana: Yeah.
Harry: Oh yeah, they will do, oh yeah. They will do. Yeah.
Prabhupāda: Their profession is stealing.
Revatīnandana: We'd get in trouble all the time.
Harry: But that's the only thing... But if there's anything else that you, if you got...? I think, as I say, given time, a bit of experience. But I do feel that a lot of little things which you do in the temple, and I appreciate this, but I think that they, to try 'em outside until people accept.
Revatīnandana: Yes.
Harry: But, at the same time, I don't believe that you're going to change all your principles, are you, just to suit people outside?
Revatīnandana: When we go outside, we can act accordingly. There's no...
Harry: No, you do, don't you? There's only these little things, you know. To me, I mean, you come past me, my house, and if I'm out there, it makes no difference to me at all. And I don't suppose it makes any difference to a certain other people, but there's just that little bit of nuclear that, you know, will sort of catch on to it, as a, as a means to their own ends or to justify their rumors, I suppose. This is what I think. Well, anyway, we can sort out that as we go along.
Śyāmasundara: Yeah. Time heals all wounds.
Harry: Ah yes, time... yeah. I dare say, I mean, possibly about next year, there may be something, someone else may have bought another house. So, so there'd be rumors about that.
Prabhupāda: In America, we are recognized by the police: We are well-behaved, peaceful persons.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They do not know. Even big, big professors. I talked with Professor Kotofsky in Moscow. He said, "Swamiji, after annihilation of this body, there is nothing."
Guest (2): Well, that has brought this disaster and is causing more and more trouble, I think. More and more in practice of medicine, if we look into the practice of medicine, I think, we are more pressed with the problem of mental illness. I should say in the region of thirty percent of our time is devoted for people suffering from mental anxiety, which we call "anxiety state" and partly depression. I think most of the time, I surmise... Part of the problem is not that they are not well-fed, it is not that they are not well-dressed. Part of the problem is to accept as they are and to think of something which is present, I mean they could believe that there is something beyond this world, and if they can accept that, probably they will be better off and they will accept their present inconveniences more easily and will not be depressed.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: :...technology. If you simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa, His activities, His appearance, His disappearance, this technology, then you also become like Kṛṣṇa. No more birth, no more death, no more disease. This is science. In this life if you simply try to understand what is Kṛṣṇa, then you become immune from birth, death, old age and disease. So if you don't like... Not you, mean the people. They say, "No, we don't like Kṛṣṇa consciousness..." But you are so much advanced in science and technology. Where is your technology? That was my question in the Massachusetts Technological... "Where is your technology to stop this death?" Nobody wants to die. Is it not a fact? So where is that technology that human society has given, has been awarded with this profit by such and such great scientist that people will no more die, no more disease, no more birth, no more old age? Nobody wants to become old. Nobody wants to get an old body like me. Rheumatic troubles. Nobody wants. But I am forced to accept. Where is that technology? I was also young man like you. I would like to go back again to that young life, but there is no possibility. So where is that technology? Real problems of life are not solved. Because there is no knowledge. Lack of knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Karandhara is managing very nicely, giving them some pocket expense. And instead of renting elsewhere, they are tenant of our house. So we have got tenants, but no trouble from the tenants.
Devotee: Very nice.
Prabhupāda: Ah. When it was suggested that I purchase house, I said that "I am not going to have this tenants' trouble. That is very botheration." So Karandhara suggested that "We have got our own tenants. Why they should stay in other apartment house? If we have got our house, they will stay, and there will be no trouble." "Then it is all right." They require house. So all gṛhasthas, they have got separate apartment, living very peacefully. So anyway, every one of us should observe strictly the regulative principles and serve sincerely. Kṛṣṇa will help us.
Gargamuni: In Calcutta we're approaching all of the libraries. At least twenty-five libraries have ordered your books, complete sets.
Prabhupāda: Jaya.
Hṛdayānanda: Jaya. All glories to Prabhupāda. (Prabhupāda gets in the car)
Prabhupāda: (break) ...basic disease. He has made himself voluntarily under the clutches of māyā. And māyā's business is to give trouble. That's all. Otherwise, he's free, but he has voluntarily accepted the custody of māyā. Yayā sammohito jīvaḥ. Sammohitaḥ means bewildered. Jīva, the living entities. Ātmānaṁ tri-guṇātmakam. Everyone is identifying, "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this body," "I am that body." This is identification with māyā. Ātmānaṁ tri-guṇātmakam. Tat-kṛtaṁ cābhipadyate. And as soon as he becomes under the clutches of māyā, he'll act according to the dictation of māyā. Tat-kṛtaṁ cābhipadyate. (break) ...to see their Los Angeles Zoo? Why they're advertising?
Sudāmā: The Los Angeles what, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, that is natural. Yes. Surāśū-sākṣimat. Surāśū-sākṣimat. In the liquor shop so there was some trouble. So he went to court. He went to court. So the court asked him, "Where is your witness?" So he brought one witness, drunkard. You see? Surāśū-sākṣimat. So that is māyā, ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8), misusing power and blaming God, "Why God...?" God has made everything. Just like here. It is made not to move. Stay. But we are better than this. Is it not? It cannot move. So God has made this also. But because we can move, we are better than this. And if, if, if they say that "God, why he has made me to commit mistake?" This rascal does not understand that that is freedom. You, why don't you take the right one? God says, "This is right." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Why don't you take it? And still, how you can say God is bad? What is the argument?
Umāpati: Well, the argument is that if God is so all-powerful, why does He even let me fall?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: That is all future. That is all future.
Hṛdayānanda: They take so much money for it.
Prabhupāda: It is not practical.
Karandhara: The trouble is when they lower the body temperature, the sensitivity is lowered. Therefore enjoyment is also lowered. So it's a question of living for a few more years and enjoying less or enjoying more and living less.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But the government is very kind to them. They supply money to do research on that, thousands of dollars.
Prabhupāda: And what is the government? Combination of some rascals. You are a rascal. You vote another rascal, and they combine together and become government. That's all. None of them are intelligent. I am rascal. So I must vote another rascal. And all those combination of rascals become government. And they cheat another, the rascals who voted them. That's all. Therefore it is a society of cheater and cheated.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually Prabhupāda, I read in the Time Magazine that Indira Gandhi, she said to one reporter her birth control program has not become successful because in Kerala there are a lot of Catholics who are opposing this kind of process. In other words the Hindus are approving of it but the Catholics are rejecting it, it looks like, to some extent. She says that because the Catholics in Kerala, they are opposing the birth control program so she has got trouble like that. She is completely atheistic.
Prabhupāda: Unless she become atheist how you can stay in that post? She must be atheist. Or she may not be atheist, but for political reasons she must become atheist. Otherwise she cannot maintain her post. All these politicians, they are simply duplicity. Actually they are something else, but in political post they must show themselves as something else. This is politics.
Prabhupāda: But these rascals, they won't accept it, although it is fact. Although it is fact. But they will not accept it. Therefore preaching is required, education required, to bring him into sense. This is fact. This portion of the ocean does not belong to any nation or any person; it belongs to God. This moon belongs to God, the sky belongs to God. But they're thinking, "It is mine." And therefore there is trouble. Just like government. The Senate is there, so they sit down together, and if there is any problem they discuss together to find out the solution. Similarly, they have got this United Nation. Why do they not consider, "First of all let us settle to whom this planet belongs"?
Hṛdayānanda: Jaya.
Prabhupāda: "If we want your teaching, we shall go to you. Why you have taken the trouble to come here? Please go out." That's all.
Yaśomatīnandana: Even though, Prabhupāda, we chastise them so severely, somehow or other they still have a soft corner for the devotees. They are feeling guilty.
Prabhupāda: They must have. Yes, they must have. They know they are culprit. But for their party's sake they are thinking or saying, "We are right. We are right."
Yaśomatīnandana: Yes, yes. Cause they are not sincere enough.
Hṛdayānanda: We have one devotee who was a member there. Now he is a devotee. There is one of our members. He is just a young boy and he went to the Guru Maharaji, and then when he heard our philosophy, now he is with us. Bāṇabhaṭṭa. Now he is a nice devotee. Just as you always say that a sincere person cannot be misled.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa will help him. (break)
Prabhupāda: Yes. The main point is that "In God we trust," on this slogan... So the same point that, "What do you mean by God and what do you mean by trust? That you do not know." So you have to explain what is God and what is trust, thoroughly, from our books. Our point of propaganda should be that "It is very good that you write this slogan, 'In God we trust,' but nobody has got clear conception of God; neither they do not know what is the meaning of trust. Under the circumstances, so you have to learn it scientifically. And our propaganda is like that, to teach actually what is God and what is trust. And you important men of the state, you come forward, try to understand, and open schools, colleges. Make it perfectly known what is God. And make America strong. As the Communist party, they are preaching godlessness, now America should preach, 'No, in God we trust.' Now there should be a fight, not on the political point of view, but actually it includes everything. A class of men godless and a class of men who knows God. There should be fight. Then there will be peace in the world. The class of men who do not believe in God, they should be punished, because they are creating all the troubles. A man who trusts in God, he is the ideal man. He will never create any trouble.
Prabhupāda: We get the information from Bhagavad-gītā. It is said, na tad bhāsayate sūryaḥ. There is no need of sunshine. So how it can be cold? Sunshine is required where it is cold, but there is no need of sunshine. Naturally, the conclusion should be it is neither cold neither hot. It is enjoyable. Cold, heat, all troubles, they are in the material world. The spiritual world is simply blissful life, enjoying. (break) As soon as the light is there, the darkness is gone. So why in the night there is darkness if he is light? Why in the night meeting these rascals require other light, electric light, if he is light? What kind of light he is? If he is light, at least they could save the expenditure of electric lights. But why does he use electric light?
Prajāpati: He says he only sees light when he closes his eyes.
Prabhupāda: Close?
Prabhupāda: ...that... We talk in relationship, everything, because this is relative world. Everything we talk, that is in relative consideration. That is Māyāvāda philosophy. They do not accept the relativity. Although when there is some toothache, he will go to the doctor. Why does he not..., "No, it is māyā. Why I shall be troubled with the toothache?" Why does he go to the doctor? That is the defect of Māyāvāda philosophy. They are being affected by the change, but still, they will say, "There is no change. It is all the same."
Karandhara: Well, that is what they say. They say, "If it is all the same, then I can go to the doctor."
Prabhupāda: Yes, but that is foolishness. If they say once that "The suffering and not suffering is all the same," why does he go to the doctor?
Prabhupāda: They did not like it?
Jagajjīvana: No, they did not like it, the officials. So then we started to leave, thinking, "Well, rather than cause any trouble, we better leave." So then the people, they wouldn't let us leave. So then the leaders there, they were forced to put us on stage. And so we chanted on stage with big microphones and thousands of people came to listen, and then we taught them how to chant Nitāi-Gaurāṅga, and they all chanted. Nitāi, Nitāi, Gaurāṅga, Gaurāṅga. It was very amazing. And then we distributed books and we lectured. (break) Their Lordships Gaura-Nitāi have come because of that chanting, Deities. (break)
Prabhupāda: If the chanter is sincere.
| Page Title: | Trouble (Conversations 1968 - 1973) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 29 of Sep, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=88, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 88 |