Treat (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"treat" |"treated" |"treating" |"treats"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone. He was given horse urine to drink, Napoleon. Such a great hero, but he had to drink horse urine. This Englishman after Battle of, what is that? Waterloo. When he was arrested, when he was asking water, he was given horse urine. Because everyone was very, very angry. Napoleon became just like Hiranyakasipu. They were threatening their children: "Oh, he, Bona, is coming. Sleep. Sleep. Sleep." He became so much.... He was known as Bona. You do not know all these things?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Whole Europe became threatened, Napoleon. And there must be some reaction. And when he was under custody he was treated like an.... So where is independence? He had to drink horse urine as reaction of his atrocities. Hitler committed suicide and finished himself. Mussolini was forced to be killed. Gandhi was killed. And they are fighting for independence. You know this Sydney? Sydney? You know why the city is known as Sydney?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, there's another thing I noticed, that in the pictures very often of Ramakrishna and his mother, his wife, whichever one she is, they show...

Prabhupāda: No, they show that "This is husband and wife. Ramakrishna was so advanced that even his wife, he left her, considering, 'She is my mother.' By worshiping mother Kālī he has become so perfect that sees all women as mother." He does not require to become Bhagavān. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says, mātṛvat para-dāreṣu. Para-dāreṣu, not your own wife. Huh? Others' wife should be treated as mother. That is our Indian system. But he wanted to overcome that, that "I call even my wife mother."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That "I am better than..."

Prabhupāda: Ah, better than all others.

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Devotee (1): That's a great mercy for them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is mercy. When they excuse a saintly person, that is, that is their great mercy. Now, according to Vedic law, a saintly person is never subjected to any law. He's paramahaṁsa. He's never.... Rather, the order is he must be given all help that he wants. That is the Vedic civilization. And brahmacārī, sannyāsīs, they should be treated as children at home, so that wherever they go, they will be treated just like children: "Oh, he's my son. He's my dependent." They will treat like that. And they also go to every home: "Mother, give me some food." So he's children, as the child asks from the mother, "Give me some food." This is system. This is civilization. And M.A., Ph.D., and searching after woman, how to induce her, and being searched out in the airport, whether he's a rogue—what is this education? We don't want this education. (break) ...student life we have seen practically, one big professor, Dr. Brajendranatha Śrī. So he had another Ph.D. student, and that student kidnapped his daughter and went away. He was so educated that kidnapped his teacher's or the master's daughter and went away. . What is that word? Kāmātura.

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Ādi-puruṣam. Govindam ādi-puruṣam, that puruṣa. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. We are worshiping that supreme and original person. And the women are declaring, "independent." They are begging door to door to a man, "Please give me shelter. Give me a child," and they're independent. One American woman, was.... She was speaking that "In India the woman are treated as slave. We don't want." So I told her that it is better to become slave of one person than to slave of become hundreds. (laughter) The woman must become a slave. So instead of becoming slaves of so many persons, it is better to remain satisfied, a slave of one person. So she was stopped. She was the secretary of that Dr. Miśra. You know that? And our Vedic civilization says, narī-rūpaṁ pati-vratam: "The woman is beautiful when she remains as a slave to the husband." That is the beauty, not the personal beauty. How much she has learned to remain as a slave to the husband, that is Vedic civilization. Kokilānāṁ svaro rūpam. The cuckoo, it is black bird, but why people love it? Because of the sweet voice. Kokilānāṁ svaro rūpaṁ vidyā-rūpaṁ kurūpaṇam. A man may be ugly, black, but if he's learned, everyone will respect him. And narī-rūpaṁ pati-vratam. And the beauty of woman is how much she is devoted and obedient to the husband. So it is very difficult.

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: The bead is pure, so just to keep it aloof from the dust.... Just like we keep this drinking water covered. Why? This is common sense.

Reporter (1): Just to keep it pure.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Pure it is, but still, it is our duty not to treat ordinarily.

Reporter (1): Are your disciples supposed to chant the mantra all the time?

Prabhupāda: Yes. All my disciple is chanting.

Reporter (1): Are they supposed to chant the mantra throughout the day?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Reporter (1): All the time?

Prabhupāda: Just like I am talking with you, and as soon as talking stops, I am.... My hand is going: "Hare Kṛṣṇa." Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā.

Meeting with Bankers -- April 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Anyway, so he was the father of the Yakṣas, this Kuvera. So Dhruva Mahārāja was a great devotee. You have heard the name of Dhruva Mahārāja. He was insulted by his stepmother. When he was young, very young child, so his father had two wives. So the junior wife was very pet to the husband, and the senior wife was not so much pet. But both of them had two sons. So the junior wife's son was sitting on the lap, a small child. So Dhruva Mahārāja was the son of the senior wife. As a child, he was also trying to sit down on the lap of the father. The other brother, he does not know stepbrother is brother. But the junior wife, she said, "My dear son, you cannot sit down on the lap of your father because you are not born in my womb. And that boy, the other boy, he is sitting on the lap of your father because he is born in my womb." So it was sarcastic remark, but Dhruva Mahārāja, although he was a child, four or five years old, he took it very seriously. A kṣatri..., kṣatriya... (Hindi) He became very angry. So he immediately left the place and went to his own mother, that "Stepmother has insulted me like this." He began to cry, and the mother said, "My dear son, what can I do? Your father does not treat me even as a maidservant, so I cannot take any step." "So how I can take revenge on it?" She said, "If Kṛṣṇa likes, then you can take revenge. Otherwise there is no possibility." "Where is Kṛṣṇa? I want to see Him." Child.... (Hindi) She said, "I have heard that Kṛṣṇa is in the forest. Big, big saintly persons go there and meet Him, so far I know, my dear son." "So I'll go there."

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: He must come to me. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyone who accepts that "I must be treated," he is intelligent.

Dr. Patel: Yes, sir, but parā-vidyā is meant for the body, aparā-vidyā, I mean to say. Parā-vidyā is meant for the soul.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: So soul and body has got to live together. So there is a necessity of aparā-vidyā also to keep your body going.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Parā-vidyā does not mean to reject the body.

Dr. Patel: Sir, there is a necessity of aparā-vidyā.

Prabhupāda: No, no. No. That is to make the best use of a bad bargain, how to use the body best to perfect parā-vidyā. That is intelligence. Just like you have a car. A car is not neglected. We don't kick out car. But it must be used for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Brian Singer: How do you treat.... In Australia mostly people are brought up in Christian religion. Do you treat...

Prabhupāda: Well, Christian religion.... We are not talking of religion. We are talking of science, fact. When I say that "You are young man. You'll become old man," either you are Christian or Hindu, Muslim, this is a fact. So don't bring in "The Christian believe this" or "Hindu believe this." Fact is fact. A child becomes a boy—a Christian believes; a Hindu believes; a Muslim believes. Everyone believes. So we are talking of the science. The child becomes a boy, a boy becomes a young man, young man becomes old man, and the old man, when this body becomes rotten, he accepts another body. So this is applicable for Bible or Christian or this or that, everyone.

Brian Singer: It's just different method of teaching.

Prabhupāda: No method. Same method. But if you say it, a different method, then we don't mind, but this is the subject matter of study. "Two plus two" is taught by the Christian and the Muslim, the Hindu. "Two plus two equal to four." There is no method of studying. The studying is the same. But if you take that "I'll read 'two plus two' in a Christian school," that is your choice. That's another thing. But wherever you go, "Two plus two equal to four," it is same. You call it Christian or Hindu or Muslim. That's your whims. Science is science. So we are preaching that "You are not this body; you are different from body." So it is equally necessary for the Christian, for the Hindu, for the Australian, for the American, for the African, everyone.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The Bhogilal was coming daily.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To talk with you?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And Pranlal was offering any help that he could. And they gave our, the secretaries were also treated very nicely, they gave us each a car.

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, when I first came to this, to your movement, the first thing I was told is that Lord Caitanya's movement in this age will, like a moon, rise for ten thousand years. I was told that number, ten thousand years. Is that true?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Rāmeśvara: And then after that, they will...

Prabhupāda: This movement will go for ten thousand years without any impediment.

Rāmeśvara: So that means increasing, because it's the nature of the spiritual energy.

Prabhupāda: It increases; you should take this opportunity. You work sincerely; it will increase, it will increase.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: You gave the example of trying to get an M.A. degree.

Prabhupāda: Yes. One has to come to that highest stage. It is not forbidden. That may be ideal, but not for the neophytes. You must.... One who does not know ABCD, what he will know about M.A. degrees? That they do not know. They think that they have already passed M.A. degree. That is their fault.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's another statement, I saw them, where it says, it's a quote, that you can treat Kṛṣṇa as your lover and Kṛṣṇa will reciprocate.

Hari-śauri: And they underlined the two words "you can" treat Kṛṣṇa as your lover. In this way they're taking your quotes out of context.

Rāmeśvara: This is one of their main, the main ideas in their philosophy is that the living entity can desire to have any relationship he wants with Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, he can desire. I already explained: first deserve, then desire.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa and Rāmeśvara: Deserve then desire, oh.

Prabhupāda: You are rascal, how you can desire? You have no qualification, you desire to high-court judge. What is this nonsense?

Rāmeśvara: But then they have an answer.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That will be revealed when you are liberated. Why you are bothering now?

Rāmeśvara: That's the point.

Prabhupāda: A patient is thinking, "How shall I dance when I become healthy?" First of all, rascal, become healthy, then talk of all this. The rascals are thinking like that. You are patient; first of all cure your disease, material disease. Then talk of all this. Utopian. "When I will get rich, how I shall treat.... I shall.... Then my wife is disobedient and I shall kick her like this," (laughter) and as soon as he kicked on the earthen pots, all broken. Then he, "Oh, then my.... All prospects have gone." You know this story?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was in the pot?

Prabhupāda: That.... A potter, potter boy, he had got some earthen pots selling. So he was dreaming, that "By selling this earthen pot, I'll make so much profit. Then I shall purchase another batch, I shall make profit. In this way, I shall be millionaire. Then I shall marry, and my wife must be very obedient. Otherwise I shall kick." So in this way, he kicked over the pots and (laughs) all of them broken.

Rāmeśvara: And in the end, nothing.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...next life, on account of his sinful activities he, if he becomes a dog in the same land, then what is the benefit? Everyone will treat him as dog, even though somebody knows: "This dog was formerly our prime minister." (laughter) Then what is the benefit? To remain in the prime minister's post, and next life he's going to be a dog, then what is the benefit?

Devotee: Hardly any.

Prabhupāda: Hmm? Discuss amongst yourselves. This is the point. We have got a short duration of life, and we declare independence of the laws of nature, laws of God, and do whatever we like, and as a result of our activities, we are obliged to accept a body which is not desirable. Then where is my independence? Why do they think they are independent and act independently? Is it not foolishness? Discuss amongst yourselves.

Nalinīkaṇṭha: That's described in the third chapter: ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā.

Prabhupāda: Ah, thank you. This is the disease. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). The rascal, he is bewildered, vimūḍhātmā, on account of false egotism. Just like we are inviting everyone: Please come and learn Bhagavad-gītā. "Huh! Bhagavad-gītā, let us go the sea and swim." Surfer, surfer? They are taking so much trouble. I have not see here; in Hawaii. For hours together, struggling with waves. I've seen it South Africa also. Very fond of this surf sporting. So they are wasting so much time and laboring so hard just to become fish. Yes, they are going to be fish. Because at the time of death they'll think of "How I am jumping in the water, surfing." That is natural.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Generally, everyone is born fourth class. Is to be understood. But by training such people you can make them division, first class, second class, third class.

Scheverman: I think we certainly would have no quarrel with that. I think Father's concern is what is your message for, what is your attitude toward those who are handicapped in our society? How do you respond, how do you treat those?

Prabhupāda: Handicapped.... Suppose your hand is cut. So I cannot bring another hand to join. It is not possible. Suppose your hand is cut. The handicap, now "handicut." So can I join any other hand? Is it possible?

Kern: No, but...

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of...

Kern: No, but you can..., my point is if a child would be born...

Prabhupāda: I'm talking that those who are handicapped, by nature defective, we shall deal with them. That's all right.

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Kīrtanānanda: I think he's in Los Angeles.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Kīrtanānanda: I'm trying to get him to bring his boy to New Vrindaban. He's down there with those meat-eaters.

Prabhupāda: She is not agreeable? I think that she is not very well treated by her husband.

Kīrtanānanda: No.

Prabhupāda: Therefore... Otherwise, she is a good girl.

Kīrtanānanda: Hayagrīva's very (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: I know she is a good girl. He has disrupted his family also.

Kīrtanānanda: If a devotee doesn't follow the principles, then he is sure to suffer. Nothing can be gained in his family life.

Prabhupāda: I thought that he is happy in family life. His father and mother came to congratulate him.

Kīrtanānanda: He was better in Los Angeles when I saw him last week than I've seen him in a long time.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: There are many medical practitioners. I have, I learned that British people, they like Indian physicians.

Hari-śauri: Oh, yes, they're very popular.

Prabhupāda: They have got faith that these people treat carefully. One civil surgeon(?) is a Bengali in London. Civil surgeon(?). You have heard this Aurabindo? His father was a medical practitioner in England, and he was born there.

Hari-śauri: His mother was Indian also or...? No. (break)

Prabhupāda: Indian families, they are living for two, three generation. (break) ...teaching them how to make home comfortable, they'll be trained up to become prostitutes. How to kill time. (break)

Hari-śauri: I think Tamāla was saying in New York they need good cooks there. Tamāla was saying that in New York they don't have very good cooks there.

Prabhupāda: Nowhere there is good cook except here. (laughter) Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja is good cook.

Hari-śauri: He's trained everybody up very nicely.

Kīrtanānanda: Prabhupāda knows how to flatter. Well, I think even we could not cook so good in Boston or New York. Without being in Vṛndāvana and the natural ingredients, it is not so...

Prabhupāda: You can supply them ghee.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Indian man (2): Is this related to the past, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That is the material disease. When you contaminate some disease, do not try to find out the history. Treat the disease. That is intelligence. How I got this disease, instead of inquiring, better treat the disease. That is intelligence. Go to the doctor and get treatment and cure it.

Indian man (3): Prabhupāda, karma-yoga, Kṛṣṇa has said, "Do your duty, look after..."

Prabhupāda: But you do not know what is your duty.

Indian man (3): Yes, that's what we are trying to...

Prabhupāda: Know from Kṛṣṇa what is your duty.

Indian man (3): Now, to know this thing, we have to really follow, right?

Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all, what you are? Then your duty. Are you clerk or ordinary orderly or the director or something, something? Then your duty. But if you do not know what you are, then where is your duty?

Indian man (3): But if you know certain things and if you do honesty for Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: That I.... You do not know anything. That is your position. You must know what is your position. Then your duty.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Pure life, village—doesn't matter village or city. If you become devotee, then pure life. It is not that because one is living in city, therefore he's polluted, one is living in village, no. Unless one becomes devotee, there is no question of becoming good.

Indian man (1): Prabhupāda, there's a very important question in my mind all the time. How a Godbrother should treat the Godbrother with great (indistinct) to produce more love of Godhead and to (indistinct) in them?

Prabhupāda: You show example. If other Godbrother is not treating you well, you treat him well. Then it will be right. Why you should deviate, that "This Godbrother is not treating me well, so I shall do also"? Āpani ācari' prabhu jīvera. You treat well. You show the example how to treat his Godbrother. (break) ...Mahāprabhu's teaching,

tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api sahiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena

kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ

(CC Adi 17.31)

So who is treating me good or bad, I don't want to bother about it. Let me become humbler than the grass, tolerant than the tree, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda, haribol. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...nice garden, but if anyone wants to live here, the government will not allow. (laughter) "Go to the mill(?)."

Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Patient is always rascal fool. You cannot expect him to be intelligent. He must agree to the physician's directions. That is intelligence. He must know that he's diseased, he must follow the instruction of the physician. That much will help him. Unless one is rascal, he does not fall sick. As soon as you violate the hygienic principles, you become sick. All commit sinful activities on account of ignorance. So therefore the best advancement of civilization is not to open hospitals, but to give them a lesson that they may not fall sick and go to hospital. That is real...But they do not know. They keep the mass of people in ignorance, they fall sick and they come to hospital and number of hospitals increase, they think it is advancement. This is their idea. So even the Christians, religious persons, they also open hospital to give relief to the patient. So that is not the program. The program is why he should fall sick and come to the hospital? Precaution is better than cure. One comes to the hospital for cure, but why not take the precaution so that he may not have to come to the hospital for cure? That is Vedic civilization. They have different prescribed rules and regulations so that a person may not fall sick. The modern idea is that "Let them fall sick; we have got hospitals and treat them, and they'll be cured." But he is cured, again he falls sick. That is going on. They have no program for precaution. They have program for cure. But actually, precaution is better than cure. We are taking precaution. The other fools, rascals, they are thinking, "What these people are doing? They are (indistinct) to have no this program, that," according to them. Just like our Vivekananda, he prescribed, daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. The same thing—hospital. We kill all animals, and the hospital patient is given the meat for improvement of the health. But he does not know that this is not curing; he is become implicated in his karma. He has to be killed again, and eaten by the other animals. That he does not know.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: So your answer is there. They think liberty means whatever he likes. That is a demoniac person(?). Now discuss this.

Devotee (1): There's one... You've quoted Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, and he describes a scholar. A scholar is a man who can see all women as his mother, and all living entities, he treats them equally, and other's property as trash. So today's civilization is mistaking a scholar for a rogue and a rogue for a scholar, and here Kṛṣṇa is explaining a godly man, the qualities of a scholar and gentleman, whereas today's civilization is upside down, backwards.

Prabhupāda: Therefore preaching is required.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: They feel that godly qualities are a sign of weakness. And the demoniac qualities is a good sign.

Prabhupāda: Heroism. That is heroism.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Yes, heroism. In this purport, Śrīla Prabhupāda perfectly describes our student life. As students, we were doing everything whimsically. Or we would accept bad things.

Interview with Mike Darby -- June 30, 1976, Wheeling, W. Virginia:

Prabhupāda: So it is the duty of the Christians. But they are also... What can I say? They are passing resolution according to the time, changing the instruction of Bible. How they can be fixed-up? Our standard is Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. We accept guru as representative of Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. If he speaks what Kṛṣṇa has spoken, then he is guru. Similar in Christianity, if they actually take care that whether one is speaking according to the Ten Commandments, if he is living according to the rules and regulations of the Ten Commandments, then he is guru. Why people accept them? Because they are ignorant, they do not know who is real and who is fake. But the standard is there. Take for example in the Bible, it is said "Thou shalt not kill." But everyone is killing. Killing is the business of the Christians. They are maintaining big, big slaughterhouse. We are maintaining cows here, and there are others, they are maintaining cows for slaughtering. Why? In these Commandments it is clearly said that "Thou shalt not kill." How they will detect? If they are violating themselves the laws, how they will punish the lawbreaker? "Physician, heal thyself." The physician himself is diseased, and he's going to treat other patients.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Dr. Sukla: Tulasi dāsa has also said that who is not God, Kṛṣṇa, conscious, you should treat them like your enemy.

Prabhupāda: That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, that asat-saṅga tyāga vaiṣṇava ācāra. The Vaiṣṇava's behavior is to give up bad company. Who is bad? Next question will be that "I have to give up the bad company. Who is bad?" Then He says, next line: asat stri saṅgī 'kṛṣṇabhakta' āra. Two words. Those who are too much attached to woman and those who are not devotees of Kṛṣṇa, they are bad. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says give up the company of these two bad men, that's all. That is Vaiṣṇava. So everything is there. If you simply follow with sincerity, then Kṛṣṇa is pleased. As Arjuna says, "Yes, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73)." That's all. He becomes perfect. And Kṛṣṇa immediately accepts, na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69). He becomes immediately recognized by Kṛṣṇa. Ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati (Bg 18.68). Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69). Priya-kṛttamaḥ, superlative. Priya-kṛt, priya-kṛtara, priya-kṛttamaḥ. So let us follow the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā as it is, our life will be perfect. That is a fact. Don't divert your attention here and there.

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, they do that. But it is a fact that copper and tin and mercury proportionately mixed will produce gold.

yathā kāñcanatāṁ yāti

kāṁsyaṁ rasa-vidhānataḥ

tathā dīkṣā-vidhānena

dvijatvaṁ jāyate nṛṇām

This example is given by Sanātana Gosvāmī. As kaṁsya... Kaṁsya is mixture of copper and tin, bell metal. When it is properly treated with mercury, it becomes gold. Similarly, a human being properly treated by initiation, he becomes a brāhmaṇa. This example has been given by Sanātana Gosvāmī. Tathā dīkṣā-vidhānena dvijatvaṁ jāyate nṛṇām. Nṛṇām, he says, "of all human beings." He doesn't say a particular class or particular country. Śuddhyanti prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ. Everyone can be purified by the initiation process, by expert spiritual master. That is accepted in the śāstra.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: These elements, that science calls elements, gold and mercury, are these several other elements in the Vedic scriptures? Little information how they separate it, the technique they use...

Prabhupāda: Oh, that, that is not given. But they, all these metals, they are different forms of earth. You find in ores.

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Oh, that, that is not given. But they, all these metals, they are different forms of earth. You find in ores.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they are all impure.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, you have to purify, but they are in the group of earth. We have to purify. Gold is also purified. It is taken from the mine, it is not pure gold. You have to treat it, then pure gold comes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But that treatment must involve a lot of process.

Prabhupāda: That may be, but by treating you can get, that's all. The metallurgists, they know.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. So actually the Vedas must have known these techniques, because otherwise they cannot get this gold so easily.

Prabhupāda: No, there are gold mountains also.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Mount Sumeru?

Prabhupāda: There are gold mountains, silver mountains, iron mountains, copper road, everything is there. What is that?

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Rūpānuga: They were raised with the real sons.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Rūpānuga: Treated nicely.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not that because he is born of a dāsī no care should be taken. No, equal. But he cannot inherit the throne, that's all. There was no question. Even Muhammadans, they used to marry more than one wife. Two hundred years ago, one Muslim Nawab of Lucknow, Wazel Dusayet(?), he had hundred and sixty wives. The palaces are still there, Lucknow, hundred and sixty palaces. Why the Nawab? Our Kṛṣṇa, not hundred sixty but another zero, another, hundred sixty thousand, two zeros. Hundred sixty plus two zeros. They were not neglected. But He is God, He expanded Himself also, sixteen thousand forms, so that no wife would feel separation. So if one husband can maintain properly more than one wife, he's allowed. But the wife must be taken care of properly. Not that because I have got more than one wife, one is neglected, one is... No. She must be taken care of.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: They should be trained up. Therefore Vedic civilization is training. Some section of the people, they should be very intellectuals, brain, just like to maintain this body we require first of all the brain. If the brain is not order, then other parts, they may be there, but they are also useless. So similarly, in the society, some intellectuals should be maintained. They are called brāhmaṇas, and some of the brāhmaṇas, they are sannyāsīs. They are simply meant for giving good instruction. They should personally become very good and intellectual, and they should give instruction to other people what is the value of life, how to live. This is one section. They should be free from the anxiety of maintaining themselves. The society should treat them as children and give them all necessities, bare necessities, not they are meant for living very luxuriously. No. Simple living. Then the next class, kṣatriyas, the politicians, administrators, they are also required to give protection to the people from injury. Kṣatriya, kṣat means injury, and trāyate, "one who saves people from injury." It is kṣatriya's duty. So kṣatriya should protect all the living entities, including the animals. They are also subjects. So the first, intellectual brāhmaṇas, then kṣatriya. Then vaiśyas, their business is to produce food. Food production you can do by agriculture, kṛṣi, and by giving protection to the cows. If you get sufficient food grains, like rice, wheat, pulses, and sufficient milk—from milk you get yogurt, butter, ghee—then your all food problem is solved. You must eat. You must eat, you must live properly. So this first, second, third, the intellectual class, the administrative class, and the productive class, these three classes must be there in the society. And those who cannot be grouped either of these three classes, they should generally help as workers. They are called śūdras.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...come with dog. Dog is not allowed.

Rādhāvallabha: That's her family.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Rādhāvallabha: That's her family.

Cyavana: Sometimes they say "I treat my dog just like he were my own child."

Prabhupāda: "Dog's mother." Why don't you call in one word, "I am dog's mother." (laughter)

Hari-śauri: They keep all kinds of things as pets. My mother knew a woman who kept a pet pig. She used to carry it around like a dog, in her arms, with a little bow.

Prabhupāda: When the natural tendency is to get child, but child is killed, and a pig is taken. This is their civilization. Child is killed and pig is taken, dog is taken. This is their civilization.

Bali-mardana: They are preparing for their next birth as a pig.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Naturally you take child, take it: "No, that kill." And take artificially a pig or dog or cat. Take it.

Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Pṛthu-putra: (translating) "The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is most known under the name of Bhāgavata-Purāṇa. The Sanskrit word Purāṇa means 'ancient, old work.' It is a commentary on the Vedānta-sūtra by Vyasadeva, its author, from which we also learn about the Mahabharata. From a general way, but particularly the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the Purāṇa is a true encyclopedia containing all the aspects of the life of spirit. We have to see that this great work is containing all the predictions, this, of realizing in every detail. Then it is very important to point out that the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam under its poetic form is a very actual by the subject which it's treating about. The truth is one and universal, and the tradition of this work is always valuable. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is an essential development of the Bhagavad-gītā. It's talking about the questions metaphysical, philosophical, religious, psychologic, political and social. The wonderful tradition of Swami Prabhupāda is inspired from the same principles that the one who guided him in his translation of the Bhagavad-gītā. Every Sanskrit verse is written in Latin characters and then a literary version. The commentary, which is referring always from the Veda, Upaniṣad, and other texts, is allowing the reader to make spiritual progress. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is a precious work and will be revealed for a lot of people from the Western. And there is a very urgent need to spread this message throughout the world."

Jayatīrtha: Ah! It's a very good decision.

Bhagavān: Doctor of letters.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: These European scholars are very appreciative of your books.

Bhagavān: Every book comes with these bookmarks.

Prabhupāda: Oh, bookmark. So, it is another step forward. (laughs) Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi-grāma (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126).

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Bhagavān: Our restrictions? Yes, they are impressed. They sometimes write about the Gurukula that we are treating roughly the children by making them so austere. But every time they show the picture, the children are always happy.

Prabhupāda: They have standardized their happiness on these principles—illicit sex, meat-eating, gambling. That is the standard. And if you deny that, they say, "Oh, it is impossible. These are the primary principles of life." Yes. Such a big man like Rolan(?) said, he said, "Oh, it is impossible." He was a big man, philosopher, very nice gentleman; still, he said "Oh, it is impossible."

Jyotirmāyī: You were saying that the children should learn these three, geography and these things, and I wanted to know if they should also learn what they call biology, that is how the body is working, what are the bones and blood and...

Prabhupāda: What is the use?

Jyotirmāyī: Just to have some general knowledge...

Prabhupāda: Simply waste of time, simply waste of time.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Atreya Ṛṣi: No, but not everyone is prisoner.

Prabhupāda: No, this question. Anyone can become criminal, any moment. There is no question of beginning. At any moment you can begin. You are honest gentleman, very good. You are working in a nice spot. At any time, any moment, you can become a criminal and go to prison house. That is... You are prone to... As soon as you misuse your little independence, you become a criminal. That is the difficulty. You have got some independence. As soon as we misuse that independence, immediately we are criminal, go to prison house. Daivī hy eṣa guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot cheat material nature. Immediately she captures. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vañcha kare pasate māyā tare japati 'dhare. That beginning is possible at any moment. You haven't got to trace out the history. Even if you are very honest, you can become subjected to these criminal law at any moment. You are prone to that. So there is no use wasting time how it was begun. You are criminal. Now make your treatment that you may not become criminal again. If you go to a doctor, you have got some sickness, and if the doctor inquires, "How it began?" How it began? What business? Now I have got sickness, you treat me. That's all. What is the use of wasting time how it began? Some way or other, it has begun. Now I've come to you, make treatment. That's all. Why should we waste our time to find out the history how it began? That beginning can be possible at any moment. As soon as we misuse our little independence, immediately the beginning is there. A criminal means one who has violated the laws of the state. That is a fact. So when that violation began, so that is not very important thing. You have violated, you are in the prison house. That's all. That is important thing.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Gargamuni: They always... I visited one hundred members, and all of these old members, they gave one thousand.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Yes, they will give. I know.

Gargamuni: They'll give if you treat them nicely.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Gargamuni: And I gave them one book, and they're satisfied.

Prabhupāda: Any person who has money, we'll receive. So many places they are offering us land...

Gargamuni: There's another man who wants to give a big property. When you come to Calcutta he wants to see you.

Prabhupāda: In Calcutta?

Gargamuni: No, it's in Rajastan.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Gargamuni: It's a place which he's not using. He met you in Bombay. He also visited our centers in Paris and New York. He's a Marwari man, very rich, very nice. He's also donated good sums to the society. So now he wants to meet you, and he wants someone to go there. So I told him we will go and look at it.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Gargamuni: It's in Rajastan.

Prabhupāda: Rajastan? Where? Which side.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: They like.

Prabhā Viṣṇu: Oh, very much. People are very impressed. In the Western world people are so much unfavorable towards us. But here in India they treat us like kings. Sometimes when I come to colleges they practically touch my feet and give me all kinds of foodstuffs and drinks. Very nice.

Maṇihāra: Even in the West they are not so favorable, but still everybody has heard of Kṛṣṇa. Everybody's heard of the Hare Kṛṣṇa people.

Mahāṁśa: There's only five first initiations. Those ladies, I told them to wait some more time. Those ladies, I told them to wait for some more time because they were still drinking tea and coffee until yesterday.

Prabhupāda: No, if they promise they will give up, then we can give.

Mahāṁśa: I already told them, "You please..." They said they will give up but I said that you...

Prabhupāda: No, if they promise you can give.

Mahāṁśa: But, they are waiting, what shall I tell them now? I just now told them...

Prabhupāda: No, tell them that, "If you promise from today you will give up..."

Mahāṁśa: They promised.

Prabhupāda: Then we shall give it.

Room Conversation -- September 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Harikeśa: Purport? A sādhu, as described above, is a devotee of the Lord. His concern, therefore, is to enlighten people in devotional service to the Lord. That is his mercy. He knows that without devotional service to the Lord, human life is spoiled. A devotee travels all over the country, from door to door, preaching, "Be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Be a devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa. Don't spoil your life in simply fulfilling your animal propensities. Human life is meant for self-realization, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness." These are the preachings of a sādhu. He is not satisfied with his own liberation. He always thinks about others. He is the most compassionate personality towards all the fallen souls. One of his qualifications, therefore, is kāruṇika, great mercy to the fallen souls. While engaged in preaching work, he has to meet with so many opposing elements, and therefore the sādhu, or devotee of the Lord, has to be very tolerant. Someone may ill-treat him because the conditioned souls are not prepared to receive the transcendental knowledge of devotional service. They do not like it; that is their disease. The sādhu has the thankless task of impressing upon them the importance of devotional service. Sometimes devotees are personally attacked with violence. Lord Jesus Christ was crucified, Haridāsa Ṭhākura was caned in twenty-two marketplaces, and Lord Caitanya's principal assistant, Nityānanda, was violently attacked by Jagāi and Mādhāi. But still they were tolerant because their mission was to deliver the fallen souls. One of the qualifications of a sādhu is that he is very tolerant and is merciful to all fallen souls. He is merciful because he is the well-wisher of all living entities. He is not only a well-wisher of human society, but a well-wisher of animal society as well. It is said here, sarva-dehinām, which indicates all living entities who have accepted material bodies. Not only does the human being have a material body, but other living entities, such as cats and dogs, also have material bodies. The devotee of the Lord is merciful to everyone—the cats, dogs, trees, etc. He treats all living entities in such a way that they can ultimately get salvation from this material entanglement. Śivānanda Sena, one of the disciples of Lord Caitanya, gave liberation to a dog by treating the dog transcendentally. There are many instances where a dog got salvation by association with a sādhu, because a sādhu engages in the highest philanthropic activities for the benediction of all living entities. Yet although a sādhu is not inimical towards anyone, the world is so ungrateful that even a sādhu has many enemies.

What is the difference between an enemy and a friend? It is a difference in behavior. A sādhu behaves with all conditioned souls for their ultimate relief from material entanglement. Therefore, no one can be more friendly than a sādhu in relieving a conditioned soul. A sādhu is calm, and he quietly and peacefully follows the principles of scripture. A sādhu means one who follows the principles of scripture and at the same time is a devotee of the Lord. One who actually follows the principles of scripture must be a devotee of God because all the śāstras instruct us to obey the orders of the Personality of Godhead. Sādhu, therefore, means a follower of the scriptural injunctions and a devotee of the Lord. All these characteristics are prominent in a devotee. A devotee develops all the good qualities of the demigods, whereas a nondevotee, even though academically qualified, has no actual good qualifications or good characteristics according to the standard of transcendental realization.

Prabhupāda: Where is this going on? (asking about banging sound)

Hari-śauri: That's just the old reception room.

Prabhupāda: What is it?

Hari-śauri: They are making alterations.

Prabhupāda: Alteration? What is that alteration?

Hari-śauri: I don't know exactly what they're doing.

Garden Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Materially there are so many divisions, but spiritual they are all servant of Kṛṣṇa. Nobody is yavana, nobody is brāhmaṇa. Everyone is servant of Kṛṣṇa. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). We are going there not to make the yavanas a brāhmaṇa. That is not our mission. Our business is... We know that he is servant of Kṛṣṇa. Forgetting Kṛṣṇa, he's thinking himself as Turkish, as Muhammadan, as Jewish, as Christian. This is his disease. So let me cure his disease. Why he should be called yavana? That is artificial. He's Kṛṣṇa dāsa. Jivera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). Just like when a physician treats a patient, does he think that here is a Christian, here is a Muhammadan, here is a Hindu? He takes as patient. Never mind what he is. And he gives treatment. He never thinks that here is a Christian patient, here is a Muhammadan patient. He is patient. Give me this, bring him medicine. That is physician's business. Why should we consider, "Here is a Christian patient. He should be treated differently than the Muhammadan." Does he think like that? Does he think? Does any physician honestly think that "Here is a Christian patient, special care should be taken for him?" No. If he is physician, he should give the equal treatment to everyone.

Room Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So how you can take care with nothing? Kṛṣṇa makes you nothing, then how you can take care of your family? Bālasya neha śaraṇaṁ pitarau nārtasya ca... These things I have explained. That we have got so many means against struggle for existence, but that is not final. Tāvat tanu-bhṛtāṁ tvad-upekṣitānām. If there is no sanction from Kṛṣṇa, you cannot do it. It is impossible. If Kṛṣṇa does not like you to be implicated in that way, that is false, then how can you do it? You are thinking that I shall take care of my family. But if Kṛṣṇa wants that you cannot take care of your family then how you'll do it? Can you go against the will of Kṛṣṇa? You can understand at least this, if not very much advanced. You cannot go against the will of Kṛṣṇa. So you have tried for the last one and a half years, you could not improve your material situation. That means you are going against the will of Kṛṣṇa. Take it from me. Kata bāccā? Four (Hindi) Separate. No more together. (Hindi) Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ (SB 7.9.45). Everything is discussed in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Kṛpaṇa, brāhmaṇa, kṛpaṇa, tṛpyanti neha. He knows that one bāccā has given me so much trouble. Illicit or legal, (Hindi) it is troublesome business. Otherwise why these Americans and Europeans, they're killing their own child. They don't want to take the botheration. (Hindi) So it is botheration, there is no doubt about it. The Bhāgavata says tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇāḥ. The kṛpaṇa (Hindi) What is the meaning of kṛpaṇa? Do you know? Miser. Miser, what is the meaning of miser? Yes. We have got this something, human form of body, to develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Instead of doing that, in spite of possessing this something, I am utilizing it for sense gratification. If you want sense gratification that's all right. Get one child, two child. Why again and again? Therefore śāstra says tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇāḥ. Because he's kṛpaṇa, he's never satisfied. He's suffering—again, another child, again, another child. All right, you have got two child, one child, that's all right. Be satisfied. Why again and again? The kṛpaṇa. Kṛpaṇa, he does not know how to utilize this asset of human life. He's wasting the asset in a different way. Kṛpaṇa. One has to become brāhmaṇa. The opposite word of kṛpaṇa is brāhmaṇa. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). That is wanted. So we are giving brāhmaṇa's position. Instead of taking the brāhmaṇa position, if he wants to take again kṛpaṇa position, then what is the use of being initiated? All these great sages, saintly person, who were they? They were all brāhmaṇas. Brāhmaṇa. Śukadeva Gosvāmī is always addressed, brāhmaṇa. Is it not? This is brāhmaṇa's business. It is not the kṛpaṇa's business. Kṛpaṇa's business means he does not know how to utilize the asset. So (Hindi) it is my duty to speak the truth. So now you can do whatever you like... Give him prasāda. (Break) ...these words, tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. They have been described, it is just like... Of course, it is very difficult, this itching. We have got practical experience. When there is some itching, we cannot stop it. We cannot stop it. Even if I do not want it, still... So it is like itching. Nothing more. Kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham. The tapasya means how to control this itching sensation. This is tapasya. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa (SB 6.1.13). Tapasya means, tapasya begins, now brahmacārī. That is tapasya. Tapasya means brahmacārī. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa śamena damena, tyāgena, satya-śaucābhyāṁ yamena niyamena (SB 6.1.13). This is tapasya. It is very strong power, this... Therefore Bhāgavata said that this power, sex power, is there in the hogs. They have no discrimination between mother, sister, daughter. And simply busy. The example is given. This capacity is there in the hog. Are you hog? How example is given. Do you like to remain like a hog? One should be saintly. Yes. Then where is the difference, I'm a human being? I am treating like hog. Therefore this very example. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujām (SB 5.5.1). This is for the hogs. This hog civilization is going on as human civilization. That is the difficulty. Whole world is hogs and dogs. Big, big United Nations.

Room Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But not that willfully do something wrong. There is punishment. If one unconsciously, without any knowledge, does something wrong, that is excused. But they do willfully. They know it is wrong, still they do it. That is punished. Knowingly. Caitanya Mahāprabhu personally said, asat eka strī-saṅgī. Those who are habituated to illicit sex are punishable. Asat. It is very, very bad. And still if somebody does like that, he is punished. This is going on. "All right." Here illicit sex... The bābājīs, I heard, they say, "What is the wrong there? It is love." They say like that. They take it as love. "Gopī's love," they say. "Gopī's used to do that, used to have illicit mixing, intermingling with Kṛṣṇa. What is wrong?" They'll say. They get support from Kṛṣṇa līlā. Such rogues they are. Sahajiyās. There are many so-called gentlemen, they write books on Kṛṣṇa līlā, paint picture." This is very nice. Kṛṣṇa is advocating illicit intermingling." They take it as support of their sinful activities. I have seen personally. Anyone who is a woman-hunter, he's being addressed by his friend, "Oh, you are like Kṛṣṇa." They take Kṛṣṇa as a man. How they will take instruction of Kṛṣṇa? Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. We are teaching people to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, to become servant of Kṛṣṇa, and the so-called gentlemen, enlightened gentlemen, take Kṛṣṇa as a debauch. Black debauch. (break) ...Vaiṣṇava religion is sex. (break) There are aborigines in India. Santal, (?) they are called santal. Black men, live in the forest like the African aborigines. So I asked him that "You, jungle, do you meet the tigers?" "Oh, yes, yes. Why not?" "So how do you save yourself?" So he had a small axe in his hand. So he showed me that "So long I have got this axe, even the tiger will not dare to attack me." (Bengali or Hindi) After all, tiger is afraid of the axe. They are afraid of even stick. That immediately they understand, "He's superior." Actually man is superior with some weapon. I have got personal experience. He said, "He's a big tiger. But we treat them like dogs." One axe. They keep always. Just like we keep a stick, they keep one axe.

Room Conversation -- November 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They allow the children sit down. They take soda water and the father-mother drinking. I have seen it. They are learning from the father and mother from the begin...

Hari-śauri: My father used to... Every Sunday they used to go to the pub, and then for Sunday afternoon, as a special treat, they would all get..., we'd be given a glass of beer.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Father-mother take... Because they think it is civilization. Elderly boys, the father mother tell, "What is the wrong, illicit sex? Take woman, take car. Enjoy life." I have seen it. They know, "This is life. Why...?" Therefore they say, "Brainwash. This Swamiji is controlling their minds and brainwashing." That is their charge. Wash, ne. The brain should be operated, surgical to take out all rubbish things from the... It is called membrane?

Pradyumna: Cerebrum?

Prabhupāda: Cereb?

Hari-śauri: Cerebral.

Prabhupāda: Cere... Not... It is all gobar. Take out. (pause) Ne, make khicuḍi.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Another place, Vaiṣṇava says, either he is businessman, or doctor, anyone, they are all madmen.

piśācī pāile yena mati-cchana haya

māyā-grasta jīvera haya se bhāva udaya

(Hindi) Ghostly haunted. And he talks all nonsense. Similarly, anyone who is in the material condition, he is a ghost-haunted man. So he can talk anything, all nonsense. Piśācī pāile yena... This is applicable to everyone. Anyone who has got this material body, he's ghostly-haunted. Therefore we are explaining that verse, that first treatment is how to get out of the clutches of this ghost which has attacked everyone. So ghostly haunted man, he's himself a victim of the ghost. How he can treat other men? He's also haunted by the ghost. This is the position. You may, one may say, "I am haunted by better ghost." That may be, but every one of us ghostly haunted. And śāstra says this is treatment. Tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā, yasmād sattvaṁ śuddhyed (SB 5.5.1). Sattva, our existence, is polluted. (break) ...the skin and bone. The skin and bone will continue so long I am in the material condition of life. Either bird's skin... Just like who was talking of evolution, who was? This disease of skin and bone will continue. Because the spirit soul is not the bone and skin. The Darwin's theory, he is putting that the bone is changing. The bone is not changing. You get different bones in different life. I am changing my position. I am going from one apartment to another apartment. The apartment not changing. I am changing apartment. That is the difference between Darwin's theory and our theory. They are thinking the apartment is becoming another apartment. No. The apartments are already there. I am entering different apartments as I can pay for it. That is karma. According to my karma, I am sometimes residing in one apartment, in another apartment. This is going on. The Darwin's theory, the apartment is changing. That's not the fact. Fact is I am living entity. Tathā dehān..., Kṛṣṇa also says tathā dehāntara. Apartment antara. The spirit soul is the same. There is no change. That is spirit always. But according to his karma, he is going from this apartment, or this body, tathā dehān... That is the main point with the modern science and our Vedic knowledge. That is the main difference. They have no idea of the existence of the soul, and therefore say, "We are trying to make, we are trying to make." This rascaldom is going on. You cannot make soul. That is not possible. You cannot do anything. You cannot make even the body, what to speak of the soul.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Jagadīśa: Anahaṅkāra eva ca, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9).

Prabhupāda: They are showing some magic. Just like this child was being treated. So he could not check the process of death. Neither it is possible to stop the process of death. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha... Our real unhappiness is this-janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. So otherwise why there is knowledge? He does not know what is the miserable condition of life. Everyone knows that he is going to die. He has taken birth; he has become old; he has suffered diseases. Then where is the solution? In America this yoga practice is very popular, and they want some solution of the miseries. But here it is said, "Where is the solution?" Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi is there. Where is your solution? You cannot stop death. Then where is the solution? This is cheating, that "I shall make solution of your suffering." But a intelligent man will say, "Can you make a solution of my death, of my old age, of my disease, of my birth?" That is knowledge. But they are poor fellows. They have no knowledge and they cheat. That's all. Where is solution? Solution is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), it is said. Otherwise cheating.

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Closed? Maybe. What...?

Trivikrama: Because we are thinking of shifting to Hong Kong because our program mainly is in offices, you know. We go in office, and we dress with a suit and tie. So they're thinking that we're businessmen coming to buy something from them. So they treat us very nicely, "Oh, sit down. How do you do, Mr. Brown?" offer some tea or something. Then we immediately open up briefcase and present one of your Bhagavad-gītās. Then we preach a little bit. We tell them that "We've come here. This is the first time in Chinese language, a very wonderful book. So many men have recommended." And then they appreciate a little bit. Then we say, "If you could help some little donation," and they give us. But these are mostly high-class men in offices, you know. So now we're kind of depleted, because ordinary men don't speak English. So we're going to Hong Kong, but there's no temple there. We'll have to live in hotels.

Prabhupāda: And where is that boy gone that was in Hong Kong?

Trivikrama: He went to New York.

Prabhupāda: He is a Chinese man.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Seventy rupees also you were wise as compared to the modern, present prices.

Prabhupāda: No, at that time it was selling 150. And now it is more than four hundred. Our land is, only one crore, apart from these buildings. Therefore everyone is envious.

Dr. Patel: Most envious men are... That fellow was himself burned by pouring kerosene on. He was a most envious fellow. He even once told me, "Why do you go there?"

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Dr. Patel: I used to treat his family. I was doctor. And I stopped treating him because he has not, he was so envious. He has got half a dozen girls in his family. I mean, where you will get...

Prabhupāda: In Kali-yuga there is no marriage. Svīkāra eva codvāhe. Agreement.

Trivikrama: By agreement.

Dr. Patel: That is in Western countries.

Prabhupāda: No, everywhere. India also.

Dr. Patel: Marriages are brought in famine (?) and they are never broken down again.

Prabhupāda: No, in big, big cities there is a marriage magistrate. You go... The boys and girls go and register there...

Dr. Patel: Yes, but here...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Marriage is, therefore, what is called primitive. Primitive. Modern marriage is primitive.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that "You require to..., your brain to be washed. Then you'll understand the value of this. So let us treat you. Come here. You are a good candidate."

Rāmeśvara: So far, the movies that Yadubara has made, the colleges will not use them in their religion classes so much because they are... They seem to be just religious propaganda for Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. So if this movie is made in a more scholarly way, the field is very good. They will use it in every college class all over the country.

Prabhupāda: Which movie?

Rāmeśvara: The one I'm thinking of having Yadubara make, shooting in India professors' and scientists' testimony plus Vaiṣṇava festivals and Vaiṣṇava temples.

Prabhupāda: No, that... And you'll see Tirupati, how they are standing for hours together.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, like that. And also, if the movie is made very well, then we can make an excerpt...

Prabhupāda: How they are contributing their hard-earned money, how it is, the are collecting money, huge amount.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, they'll interview very wealthy people also. Good idea.

Prabhupāda: They're not all wealthy. Wealthies are giving more, and poor men also give.

Evening Darsana -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Our greatness in this country was considered on spiritual advancement.

Guest (2): Exactly. We Indian people, we know what is religion, not politics.

Prabhupāda: No. Politics is there. Politics means formerly the brāhmaṇas were the guide, teacher of the society, guide of the society. Brahminical culture. The brāhmaṇas were not interested in politics. They would give advice to the kṣatriyas, and the kṣatriyas would administer. Brāhmaṇas were not interested to take politics, from time immemorial, even during the time of Mahārāja Pṛthu. Not that the kṣatriyas were irresponsible, no. They were taking guidance from the learned brāhmaṇas, saintly persons, and they were ruling over. Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira was doing that. Mahārāja Parīkṣit was doing that. Lord Rāmacandra also.

Guest (2): During the present day, sir, to whom we will treat as brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya and vaiśya and śūdra?

Prabhupāda: That I was explaining. According to the symptom.

Guest (1): Cātur-varnyam mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13).

Prabhupāda: So actual...

Mr. Pandiya: Bratim(?) eva tu kāraṇam.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unfortunately, at the present moment there is no brāhmaṇas. Kalau śūdra-sambhavāḥ.

Guest (3) (Indian man): During Pratāparudra's time, his rāja-guru was Kavi Jiya-devācārya (?).

Prabhupāda: Yes. Every king.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: He is bringing life. What is the answer of these rascal scientists?

Satsvarūpa: No good answer. Bluff.

Prabhupāda: Challenge them like this, that "First of all do it. You are less than the chicken. Why you are claiming so much honor? We treat you, you are fig. You are less important than the chicken. Prove that you have got some power; then claim that you are scientist." Hm? Is that argument all right? What will be the counterargument?

Gurukṛpā: A sane man would accept.

Prabhupāda: They're all rascals. They do not know anything; still, they are claiming very high position.

Gurukṛpā: I heard one scientist on the airplane. There were three scientists sitting behind me, and they were speaking that they hope they are living in the year 2000. One man said, "I become so excited when I think how advanced we will be in the year 2000 that I just hope I do not die before then 'cause I want to see how everything will be then."

Satsvarūpa: By then they think they will be doing this, creating life.

Prabhupāda: That any insane man can say. Any crazy man can say. "Trust no future, however pleasant." "You are rascal. You are believing in the future. You have not show us, because in the past you could not do. There is no history. In the present you cannot do. So how shall I believe that in future you'll do?" So any rascal promises like that, so we take him as a rascal. That's all.

Morning Walk -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: One cannot say that he does not believe in the power of the state.

Prabhupāda: Then that is not leadership. That is misleader. These are very intelligent questions, nice. King means he has to see that the citizens are doing nicely, and that is king's duty.

Bhāgavata: The king is like a father.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated. Lord Rāmacandra treated His subjects as sons and they also treated Lord Rāmacandra as father. That is the relationship between the citizens and the king-father and son.

Bhāgavata: The chastisement that the king gives...

Prabhupāda: That is out of love.

Bhāgavata: Out of love.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not by enviousness. Chastisement means correction. He's in the wrong way; he is corrected to the right way. So gradually you have to take the power of the king to correct the whole human society. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). That is Kṛṣṇa's business, to give protection to the right person and to chastise the wrong person, two things required, side by side. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. And dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya. Three, another. By chastising the wrongdoer and by giving protection to the right man, and then establish what is real religion. And then Kṛṣṇa's mission, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is perfect. Three things: paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām, dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya yuge yuge sambhavāmi. This is Kṛṣṇa's business. (break) ...Bhagavad-gītā, everything will be nice, everything.

Room Conversation -- February 4, 1977, Calcutta:

Satsvarūpa: Tridaṇḍī-bhikṣu.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Here, the Indian culture, brahmacārī, sannyāsī and brāhmaṇa, they are allowed to beg alms. That is the Vedic culture. And the householders treat them as their own children. This is the relationship.

Satsvarūpa: But what if it's done in a culture where this is entirely different?

Prabhupāda: Therefore there are hippies. This is your culture hippies and murderer in the name of religion. This is their culture. And abortion. Because there is no such culture, therefore the result is the abortion and killing and bombing, making the whole atmosphere abominable. This is your culture. Fighting between Protestant and Catholics, and bombing... People are terrified. They cannot go out in the street. This is your culture. And begging is bad. To keep the people, whole population, in terrified condition, that is very good, and if anyone in a humble way begs, that is bad. This is your culture. Vedic way allows the brahmacārī to beg just to learn humbleness, not beggar. Coming from very big, big family all family, they practice it. This is not begging. This is to learn how to become humble and meek. And Christ said, "To the humble and meek, God is available." It is not begging. You do not know what is this culture. You have your own culture, devil's culture, to kill even one's own child. How you'll understand what is this culture? Am I right or wrong?

Satsvarūpa: You're right.

Room Conversation -- February 10, 1977, Mayapura:

Jayapatākā: Like child, bāliśa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They should be trained up. And dviṣatsu, envious. Four division. So four divisions you have to treat in different ways. Prema, Lord, prema, love. Maitrī, friendship with devotees. Kṛpā bāliśu, those who are innocent, the kṛpā. Let them learn. And upekṣā. As soon as come to the dviṣat, no cooperation. Keep aloof. So when we try to keep aloof from the envious, that is not our enviousness. That is just to avoid trouble for preaching work. Not that we hate them. But because... When you avoid a snake, it does not mean I hate the snake, but because he is harmful we have to take precaution. This is the statement of Bhāgavatam. And when you are in the mahā-bhāgavata stage, first-grade, that time, paramahaṁsa, nobody's enemy, nobody's friend. Everyone... That we cannot imitate. It is not... Preacher, even if he's mahā-bhāgavata, he comes to the second stage. Just like Guru Mahārāja. He's mahā-bhāgavata, but still he had to come to the second stage. He had to take precaution. That is natural. There are so many enemies of...

Jayapatākā: We were remembering how Nitāi had been poisoned, Nitāi and Yogānanda are your disciples. They were recently poisoned.

Room Conversation -- February 12, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Raot?

Jayapatākā: Raot maybe, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He's good man. He offered me obeisances flat. Hm. So he's a good man.

Jayapatākā: Last time he came he was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa much.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So treat him nicely.

Jayapatākā: I offered that he should come at least once or twice a month. He can see the cows, and he can take prasāda, and we'll give him...

Prabhupāda: With family come. And he'll have good association of the devotees.

Jayapatākā: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). The other day you were asking me about the wages, labor.

Jayapatākā: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So our point is the devotees shall work. So there is no program to pay wages.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: They may go away.

Hari-śauri: Because every five years or so they move them to another area. They have to uproot everything and move somewhere else.

Prabhupāda: Very badly treated, Indians. The blacks are still more badly treated.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That government is going to be finished soon.

Prabhupāda: When I had to go that Indian quarter in Johannesburg, at least ten miles by car through the darkness.

Brahmānanda: The Indian quarters are far off.

Prabhupāda: Still, they're prosperous. They have got car. They have got business. They have got factories. Although they are harassed in so many ways, still they are prosperous. They have got their shops and business house in Johannesburg, and they cannot remain there. They must go back. So that was a failure of Gandhi. Gandhi for twenty years agitated. General Smuts, he was the head at that time. And he was beaten. He was so much troubled. Once upon a time Gandhi was captured and beat so severely that he was going to die immediately. Some English South African friend, he saved him. So Gandhi's life from this side is a failure. He could not achieve any success there. Then he thought that "I shall drive these Englishmen from my country." He came here in 1917.

Room Conversation -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: I asked Bhogilal. He sent, but they cancelled.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The same thing. I once arranged for Shantilal's brother, and they cancelled. The thing is there's an art of dealing with these servants. You have to know how to handle them. Otherwise... They have to be treated like the children in the family.

Prabhupāda: No, not... Treat them as master-servant tactfully.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And you have to take care of them.

Hari-śauri: The thing is, those men that Bhogilal sent were smoking biḍis and everything.

Prabhupāda: That could be checked, that "You do not do this." If you have to keep hired cook, so you'll have to manage in that way. Everything depends on management. Change of menu is very good, not that the same thing should be...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's been four days now of the same thing.

Prabhupāda: That's not good.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: My mother is the brother's daughter, and he was the sister daughter. Just like our this nephew, first cousin.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a close relationship.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So he treated... Although my mother was first cousin, he treated my mother as younger sister. In that way he liked my father also, myself. That gentleman and one Dr. Kartik Chandra Bose, and two-one, my own father and my Guru Mahārāja. I knew that. He liked me. He liked me from the very heart. Guru Mahārāja liked me. I know. By his blessing it is, everything has happened. I was not worth. What did I...? I do not know why he liked. I was not worth. There were so many disciples. And still, he liked me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He could see how pure you were.

Prabhupāda: Maybe. Out of his affection, it is his good will. He can like anyone, any dog, doesn't matter. But I know he liked me. Anyone, by his choice of free will, he can love any damn thing. It doesn't matter. That is called kṛpā-siddhi. "I like this man. This man must be prominent." That is his will. It doesn't matter on qualification. So all these people, they liked me not on my qualification, but out of affection, out of good will. (laughs) Other, a woman. Woman means my mother-in-law. She was woman. Out of affection for her daughter, she would sacrifice everything for the..., so that her daughter may not be unhappy.

Arrival of Devotees -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: But something is better than nothing. Kānā māmā. ("Blind Uncle")

Gargamuni: When we were in Rangoon and Bangkok, they were most interested in those Russian reviews, and we got very good response there. In Rangoon they're doing reviews, and they loved the books. They treated them as gold. They said, "This printing and Sanskrit and word-for-word... We have never seen such a translation!"

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: They grabbed the books. I had to leave so many books there. They wanted them immediately. And they will pay us in dollars also.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Gargamuni: They get special grants.

Prabhupāda: How many standing orders?

Gargamuni: Well in Rangoon I went to the head of the Oriental Studies. They ordered all of Bhāgavatam. Then there's the National Library. They want. Then the National Trading Corporation wants to import our books and sell to the various libraries there. We met... We were only there four or five days, but we met so many people of different types of departments who want the books. Then in Bangkok I met the head of the Department of Philosophy. He ordered the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Then I met the head of Eastern Languages...

Prabhupāda: Did you go to our center, Bangkok?

Gargamuni: No. I didn't have the address. And I heard they were giving up the house because it is not... They have to...

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Arrival of Devotees -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Rāmeśvara: I have also gotten different letters from the state government of California, the mental hospitals that we're visiting. These are official letters on their letterhead. This one... I'll read the best one. "Dear friends, it is a great pleasure to thank you all for the extraordinary party you gave for Residence 32. The clients on 32 loved your chanting and enjoyed clapping along with you. This simple activity allowed them to take part in the fun and warm spirit. Everyone really liked the tempura-like cauliflower," the pakorās, "that you brought. It was a very tasty and special treat. We at Fairview," a very famous state hospital, "we at Fairview were so impressed with the way that you related to the clients on the residence..."

Prabhupāda: So these are the recommendation how we wash brain.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: Yeah, Dr. Sharma. He lives on Hare Kṛṣṇa Land. He's an Indian who took his degree in Alaska and he has two sister-in-laws also who took their doctor's degree in Moscow, and they have great faith in Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Make them come, make them come. Treat them nicely. Give them good place. In this way increase the number of workers. Then people will, "Oh... They are not religious sentiments. They have got books, they have got scientists, they have got doctors." Is it not? And we can challenge them. "Come on, what is our education, let us test. We are prepared to talk with you like scientists." So you are all here now and... Organize in Bombay. Bombay, the center of Bhaktivedanta Institute.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: A few students came day before yesterday from Bombay University.

Prabhupāda: Let them come.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They wanted to study in Bhaktivedanta Institute.

Prabhupāda: Very good. Give them good place. We don't want tenants or... Turn the whole building into Bhaktivedanta Institute. And another building start. Yes. We have got enough place. I want that the intelligent man should come and learn this science. That is wanted.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Later age, yes. That is enjoined. When child is sixteen years old he can do as he likes, not before that.

lālayet pañca varṣāṇi

daśa varṣāṇi tāḍayet

prāpte tu ṣoḍaśe varṣe

putraṁ mitravad ācaret

This is the moral instruction of Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. Up to five years, don't chastise, don't take any action. Let him be free. Whatever he likes, he can do. Then after fifth year, for ten years you must be very strict. Then five years and ten years, fifteen. And when he is sixteen years, treat him like a friend. Prāpte tu ṣoḍaśe varṣe putraṁ mitravad ācaret. At that time, no stricture that he will break. "My dear boy, if you do this..." This is necessary. And from fifth year to fifteenth year you should chastise the sons and disciples just like tiger. After five years.

Mr. Koshi: Using the stick.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's how you trained us, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Mr. Koshi: Did you get?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, by Prabhupāda. Even though we were not five years old, he treats us just like as if we were five. Because spiritually we are still like that. So he is very strict with us.

Prabhupāda: All these boys I chastise vehemently. Even a little mistake.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All the airports now they are making special security, especially to check any politicians who might try to escape the country, due to being investigated.

Guest (1): Their passports are also taken away. That's what I have heard.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were, in themselves, the most exalted, and now they are treated as criminals.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In the Times of India you saw that starlight or side light or something, about Indira Gandhi. In today's paper, Indira Gandhi had gone to a ten-day function at one of the African embassies. She went with her daughter-in-law, and nobody even noticed her. Only fifteen minutes after she left the function did the host realize that Indira Gandhi had come. She went to a party, she stayed there, and she left and the host did not know that "Indira Gandhi is here." That shows how material nature changes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It also shows that actually she had no value, because one who is actually great doesn't lose his value simply by losing an election.

Prabhupāda: Vidvān sarvatra pūjyate. Vidvatāṁ ca nṛpatyāṁ ca naiva tulyaṁ kadācana.(?) She is not a learned man. She occupied the royal seat. That honor was so long there, the royal seat. And who will be honor her?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Her rule was "Might makes right."

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: These are the symptoms of becoming a brāhmaṇa. You develop these symptoms. Who checks you? Practically we are doing all over the world. There is no such thing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All the measures...

Prabhupāda: Caste system should not be abolished, but it must be properly established. That is wanted. If you have got any defect in the eye, not that the eye should be plucked out. But it should be treated and brought into the normal condition. That is wanted. That we admit. You want to become brāhmaṇa without brahminical qualification. Not only you, everyone wants.

Bhakti-caru: You told Professor Kotovsky that this caste system is existing everywhere, in every society in the world.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. In the body there is caste system. The head is the brāhmaṇa, the hand is the kṣatriya, the belly is the vaiśya and the leg is the śūdra. Everything head, that will not help. There must be leg also. But it must be conducted under the guidance of the head. Then it is all right. If the head is not there and leg is utilized for jumping, that is monkey's business. The leg must work according to the dictation of the head. The hand must work according to the dictation of the head. "The caste system should be abolished." What is the caste system? There is no caste system. Everyone is śūdra. Who is a brāhmaṇa now, qualified, except one or two in our camp?

Room Conversation -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They want to be cured immediately. Go to the doctor. "Give me injection, give me tablet, cure me immediately." That is the Western treatment. Immediately stop it. Here also. A man, a worker, he's earning twenty rupees a day, and the doctors also take advantage of this rational. "You want to be treated quickly or let...?" And naturally he will say "Quickly." "Then you have to take injection." Injection means each injection at least five rupees. He may inject water.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They do that sometimes.

Prabhupāda: They do that. This is going on. They do actually, I know. Unnecessarily, little distilled water, and take from him five rupees. If he gives him mixture, he cannot charge from him. But these innocent persons, they have earned. "You want to be treated very quickly or slowly?" He says that "I am earning twenty rupees per day. If required, I will give you so much money. And give me quickly." Everything cheating and... I know. I was in the medical line. Dr. Bose admitted. He was talking with me very freely because I was just like his son. "My dear boy, I sometimes cheat. We are most sinful." He said like that. "As soon as we find some rich person, unnecessarily we harass."

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They may not accept God, but they are sons of God. You may become a madman—you don't accept your father. That does not mean that you have no father.

Guest (1): But he is a madman.

Prabhupāda: Yes, so madman, that should be treated. That is humanity. A madman, he has become mad, and "Get him out." No. Human society's duty is to treat him, to become a sane man.

Guest (1): And that type of man requires a special treatment.

Prabhupāda: Yes, a special treatment...

Guest (1): So the books which you have written for other people.

Prabhupāda: No. You don't require to read book. We simply say that "You come here, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take prasādam." This is treatment. These boys, foreigners, they have come to me not by reading my book. First of all I invited him, "Sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take prasādam." And then gradually. This is the general treatment.

Room Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And we may be rascal; we do not know who is father. The father Himself says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: (BG 14.4) "Here." We accept Kṛṣṇa. This is intelligence. The father is present. He says, ahaṁ bīja... The rascal is searching out: "There is no father." So immediately who denies the existence of God, he is a rascal. He is to slapped only, with shoes. That is the only remedy. Anyone who denies the existence of God. He's a rascal. He should be properly treated with shoes and beaten.

Girirāja: That's true.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Mūrkhasya lakuṭauṣadhi(?). When a person is fool number one, beat him. That's all. Ḍhol gobara...(?) Tulasī dāsa has said, ḍhol gobara śūdra paśu nārī, ei saba śāsana ke adhikārī. Ḍhol, drum, you have to bring it to the tune by beating, "tung, tung." Gobara. Gobara means fool person. Paśu, animal. Ḍhol, gobara, pa..., śūdra, and nārī, woman. They should be punished to bring them into order. Ei saba śāsana ke adhikārī. Otherwise they will spoil. A barking dog, you cannot pacify him, "My dear dog, don't bark." It will disturb him: "No!" Ḍhol gobara śūdra paśu nārī, ei saba śāsana ke... So anyone who is denying the existence of God, he is a rascal number one and beat him with shoes. Bas. He is being beaten with shoes by nature.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: If you... If you think kuṭumbakam. Suppose some kuṭumba has come to your house. You ask him, "Go out"? This is our system. Gṛhe śatrum api prāptam. This is Indian culture. When you receive somebody at your home, even if he's your enemy-gṛhe śatrum api prāptam—you should treat with him in such a way that he'll forget that he's your enemy. Viśvastam akutobhayam. That was India's culture. Bhīma went to Jarāsandha to fight. Whole day it was fight. It was kṣatriya's fight. Unless one is dead, the fight will continue. So Bhīma and Jarāsandha were equally powerful, so no decision. But still, he was guest at Jarāsandha's house. At night they were eating together, talking together. This is India's culture. They forgot. Arjuna went to see in the battlefield to Duryodhana. And Duryodhana immediately said, "Come here, my brother. You have come. What do you want? How can I help you? You want your kingdom without fight? I can give you." He said, "No, no, that is not my business." This is kṣatriya. He... He thought that "He has come to beg." "No, no, that already... That we shall decide in the battlefield." This is kṣatriya. But when he's at my place, I offer, "All right, if you want without fight, you can take." This is... They... This is India's culture. Ei sab mahābhārata hai, "History of Greater India." (Hindi) Apkara Gandhiji (Hindi) fiction hai.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Without a guru? That is not possible.

Young man (4): Hm?

Prabhupāda: That is not possible.

Young man (4): It is not possible?

Prabhupāda: Just like if you are mad—the mind is not in order—you go to a physician to treat you. That is the way. If your mind is not in order, what do you do? You go to a psychiatrist, you go to an expert for treatment.

Young man (4): No, no, this is... No.

Prabhupāda: That is the way. If you do not go, then you'll become mad.

Young man (4): No, no, no.

Prabhupāda: What is that "No, no, no"? You said that your mind is in chaotic condition.

Young man (4): Yes?

Prabhupāda: So you have to treat it.

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. This is lawyer, judge.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "...rendered and tendered herewith may not be treated as an authoritative, verbatim translation. There is much scope for improvement. For the present it may be used and circulated in a narrow circle."

Prabhupāda: We don't want much improvement. Your translation is...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then he says...

Prabhupāda: So arrange for...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Printing it.

Prabhupāda: ...pamphlets for huge distribution.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This will be made into a separate little pamphlet all about the court case.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Any photographs, perhaps, of the persons involved? Any need of that? I think we can leave it up to Gopāla. He's in charge of printing.

Prabhupāda: No, not... We have said.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We should give a little background introduction of the court case and then this translation of the final verdict of the judge.

Prabhupāda: And "Translated by such and such judge." It will carry some weight.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Here you'll find many of...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I remember in the Rādhā-Govinda Temple in Jaipur, oh, the monkeys, they lived there as regular citizens practically. And they're very friendly there. They come up and they hold their hand out.

Prabhupāda: That Kṛṣṇa was giving the monkeys. Monkeys were pet, not as enemy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa treated the monkeys as a pet?

Prabhupāda: Friends.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Friends.

Prabhupāda: He was giving butter. In the forest playing with them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Imitating also.

Prabhupāda: Playing. If you give them to eat something, they become friendly.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're intelligent.

Prabhupāda: Before, it is described, before human birth, monkey, either monkey or lion or cow. Sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Monkey's tamo-guṇa, cow is sattva-guṇa, and lion is rajo-guṇa. This is the last animal life before human life, gradually. Everything is described. Darwins want to take credit, (laughs) nonsense.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "Since the Communists took power in West Bengal, the police are caring less for religious groups." Before, the police would always give religious groups protection. Now they don't care. I mean just see, they didn't come for two hours, and then they said, "Come down and file a complaint." And when we came down, immediately arrested. This same thing happened in New York. They told Ādi-keśava Mahārāja and the other boy, Trayī dāsa, "You come down to file some statement." As soon as they came down they said, "You're under arrest." Same trick. (break) ...infirmary and they come in and they... I never heard of that. Someone is in the infirmary being treated and they beat him worse. And the newspapers all report it the other way.

Prabhupāda: Because the government is Communist.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. The newspapers are being told what to print. They're afraid to print anything else. But foreign press can print anything. And other press, Delhi press, Bombay press, they can print anything. This was dated the eleventh.

Prabhupāda: Government published this. The Statesman, therefore, has not given any description.

Room Conversation -- October 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Dr. Kapoor: What I mean to say is ask him to treat Prabhupāda or not. But there should be some qualified doctor who stays here permanently for the purpose of checking him out from time to time, because you are all laymen. If there is any complication, you don't understand it. So if there is doctor by his side always, he can check up and say, "This is so and so." You can call any other doctor afterwards and treat him. In the present condition of Prabhupāda it is necessary that you always have some good medical advice available here. So if you had one of the disciples of Prabhupāda... There was one Dr. Batnagar, I think, who retired as civil surgeon of Mathurā, who was here for some time I saw. If he can be help, you can call him, I think.

Girirāja: Dr. Batnagar?

Dr. Kapoor: I don't remember his name, but perhaps Dr. Batnagar. He's perhaps a disciple of Prabhupāda. He at least stayed here for quite some time, and he told me that once he proposed that he would stay here permanently and treat the devotees.

Prabhupāda: Sometimes they recommend hospitalization, and I don't like that.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Catur-vidha-śrī-bhagavat-prasāda-svādv-anna-tṛptān hari-bhakta-saṅghān, kṛtvaiva tṛptiṁ bhajataḥ sadaiva **. This is also bhajana, to be satisfied that others are taking first-class prasādam.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhuṅkte bhojayate caiva ṣaḍ-vidhaṁ prīti-lakṣaṇam.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. We want to treat them very nicely outside the conference, like giving nice prasādam. (break) ...yes. So we have specifically arranged for this nice prasādam.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Inside you're not going to be nice to them? (laughter)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Inside we are going to say very strongly about our philosophy and science. So anybody who's going to oppose that, we're going to duel them. Also we'll show some films, our Hare Kṛṣṇa films, just after the conference. The evening, I have some entertainment program. That program is for showing our films and our activities, ISKCON activities throughout the world. So I have brought all the slides from Los Angeles that we have from our BBT department, and also I have all the films ready. Also they can attend maṅgala-ārati, and in the evening they can also attend the sandhyā-ārati. And also some of them want just to see our temple, Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. They have heard that the architect is very nice, and it's very nicely decorated. So some of them already heard about it, so they just want to see how the temple is here. Overall, our idea is also to make them devotees.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is wanted. So go and arrange. That's all.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I'll treat myself. Let the kavirājas come. And makara-dhvaja... One after another, they will make the things complicated. What is your opinion? Hm?

Bhavānanda: We all feel, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that your direction is absolutely perfect. It is coming directly from the spiritual platform. Therefore anything which you tell us to do, we want to do, and we have full faith and confidence that it is absolutely correct. But we don't have full faith and confidence in people who are materially conditioned. Therefore we have taken you as our spiritual master. You have perfect knowledge of everything spiritual and you have perfect knowledge of everything material.

Prabhupāda: So, all of you agree to this?

Bhavānanda: Do we all agree?

Devotees: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Then I will give direction. Simply I want to know about the makara-dhvaja, consulting both the kavirājas. (pause) Why you stop kīrtana?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Go ahead, Pañca. (kīrtana begins, Pañca-draviḍa sings slowly)

Prabhupāda: Mildly kīrtana.

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, he didn't know the real cause.

Prabhupāda: They do not know. They use machine. Their means of knowing-machine. They do not know.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I have many medical friends. They frankly admit that oftentimes they kill the patients in the name of treating. It comes out that it was their own medicine that they gave.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Recently that Dalmia secretary... What is his name?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hita-sarana Sharma.

Prabhupāda: In pathology his prescription was replaced by another.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't follow. Recently whose?

Upendra: Prescription was replaced by another.

Prabhupāda: He had some trouble. So, what is called? Pathology?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Pathology? No.

Prabhupāda: No, laboratory testing?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What's laboratory test called?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Pathology?

Bhavānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So his case was transferred to another.

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mixed up. His diagnosis was given to someone else. They made a mistake, and then they treated the other person.

Prabhupāda: And he was being treated as tuberculosis.

Ādi-keśava: Sometimes they make the operations, and they leave the knife in, and they sew the knife up inside after they make an operation. Or the scissors. They take some clamps and they sew them inside the wound. And then the man says, "Oh, I have a pain in my side." And they say, "Oh, new disease," and they make another operation and take out the clamps or the knife.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Sometimes they only depend on machines, these medical doctors. That's why he's mentioning about x-ray. Through these machines you cannot tell the correct diagnosis.

Prabhupāda: I have got many experiences in my family life. One servant, Kashiram.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Kashiram.

Prabhupāda: Yes his name was Kashiram. So he was howling, howling. So we took him to the hospital, and so many student doctors surrounded. They diagnosed something, strangulation or something like that.

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I can sit up. (break) (devotees chanting japa) Bhavānanda, you can take little oil and...

Bhavānanda: Yes. (devotees chant japa) (break) Śrīla Prabhupāda? Śatadhanya Mahārāja has come.

Śatadhanya: I have brought the makara-dhvaja from the kavirāja in Delhi. This kavirāja, he's not Rāmānuja-sampradāya, but many people say in Delhi that he's the foremost kavirāja in India. He treats the Prime Minister, Morarji Desai, and all the ministers also. So many people trusted him, and he mixed this medicine... He was mixing it for some other person, but when he heard that you were ill, he gave it to us.

Bhavānanda: What kind of makara-dhvaja?

Śatadhanya: There's different kinds of makara-dhvaja, six kinds. This is the most potent kind. This is called siddha makara-dhvaja. This contains gold and pearl and musk and mica and many other ingredients.

Bhavānanda: And what are the other ingredients you have to take it with?

Śatadhanya: You can take it with either honey or milk. But he recommended that for Prabhupāda's particular condition he take it with honey.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. What did he charge?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What did he charge?

Śatadhanya: Nothing. We got it for free because we got it through one influential man named Chandra Swami.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Hari-prasāda: Yes, little strength, if he goes. That vaidya, kavirāja can come from Bombay. He had treated my father-in-law for about four-five years.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who is that?

Hari-prasāda: He is Bhayernathji(?), Pandit Bayernath.(?) He is friend of (indistinct). He's a very good Ayurvedic. (break)

Prabhupāda: Svarūpa Dāmodara?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Stop the medicine.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda suggests that he stops the medicine for one day, so...

Śatadhanya: See the effect.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And I'm also going to Delhi in the morning, so Śrīla Prabhupāda... (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I agree with your suggestion, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I think it's a good idea to stop the medicine for a day and to consult the kavirāja, and also to try to drink something else besides only fruit juice. I think the medicine should be stopped for a day. Haṁsadūta... I was talking with him. He said that he sometimes would do these fruit juice diets. In America this is something that's done a lot of times. He said when he would take this fruit juice diet, he said there's no question of passing stool. He said when you take fruit juice diets you don't pass stool because there's nothing... He says eventually you just pass urine. So the fact that Prabhupāda is passing stool is very unnatural, at least for taking fruit juice. He's not eating anything, so how can he pass stool four times? What is the stool coming from if he's not eating?

Prabhupāda: Whatever little blood is there.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Can I go to Calcutta?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I still feel a little confident that we could take you there, but... I mean just like we carry you in the palanquin and you don't have any difficulty, so airplane is like a big palanquin. I mean, you know, there's so many of us, eight or ten of us. I can't see that there could be any difficulty. Of course, I still think the kavirāja is going to come. I have faith in Śatadhanya Mahārāja. I think this is simply Kṛṣṇa's test for him. I think the kavirāja will come. The nicest thing will be if the kavirāja treats you for some days, and you get some benefit, and then he takes you...

Prabhupāda: (?) Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Preliminary health principles, they can le...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's already going on.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Sharma is teaching Ayurvedic, basic Ayurvedic.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, anyway, that's... So I'll explain to him that what we want... I already wrote him a letter inviting him to... He can have two rooms, one for his living and one for his dispensary, and treat the inmates here. I'll again repeat that. (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Light?

Hanumān-prasāda: Dr. Sharma said that you named introduction as Antar-Darśana because it gives in essence of the entire...

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hanumān-prasāda: Dr. Sharma suggested that we name introduction as Antar-Darśana, because it is the essence of the entire commentary. We have summarized the entire thing into thirty pages. So I thought we can name it...

Prabhupāda: Antar-Darśana?

Hanumān-prasāda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Good. Read it.

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So when that most conscious jīva leaves the body, still, the body is made up of those innumerable lives, but whose consciousness developed, that we call a dead matter.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not dead matter. They come out. As soon as the body is decomposed, they come out. You cannot say that the life-giving substance is gone. It is there. (break) ...this boy.

Bhakti-caru: No, no. I had a talk with him. He's not really depending on him. I asked him. He said that it's always better to train up..., to have someone around who's seeing how he is treating.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why? If he's around, why is it better to have someone else?

Bhakti-caru: He's says that just... Anyway, he'll come and explain it to you.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I know what he's going to explain. He can't explain anything except that he wants to leave this boy in his place. That's the real point.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm saying that the real point is that we don't want this boy to take the place of this kavirāja, which is what the kavirāja is planning.

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: About two years ago? Mainly the same people are here also that were there at that meeting. Then this Swami Cinmayananda...

Prabhupāda: He has not come.

Brahmānanda: No. They were just talking about him.

Prabhupāda: Don't bother to come here, then.

Brahmānanda: But they treated you with much respect, though. They said that they had wanted Your Divine Grace to come because you are also a member of their steering committee. (indistinct) They also had a proposal to produce a series of different books, small books, pamphlets, forty, fifty pages, comprising selections from the Bhagavad-gītā. And these would be for specific types of persons. The books would be Bhagavad-gītā for students, Bhagavad-gītā for businessmen, Bhagavad-gītā for scientists, like that. So they want us to produce the book for the scientists, taking various quotes from Bhagavad-gītā with a short explanation of the verse. So I said one problem is that all the different groups who are assembled here will all have different interpretations of the verses. What about this? And they said, "No, no, we shouldn't interpret." I said, "Well, one reason that the young people are not taking up this Bhagavad-gītā is because they see that everyone is giving a different interpretation. Nobody is presenting it as it is, so they're confused." I was in Kashmir, I was speaking with some young boys. They were telling me they're confused by religion. They don't respect the paṇḍitas in the temples—they're all simply after money. They have no respect for religion, Hindu religion. So I mentioned this to all of them. They are all Māyāvādīs. And they argued with me. I presented arguments. They would not accept it.

Prabhupāda: They want to avoid criticism.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The pāṇḍās untimely changed the body?

Gaura-govinda: Untimely they changed. And it was the custom that King Purī-rāja, the king of Purī, would do cara-paraha,(?) this cleaning. But they ill-treated the Purī-rāja. There was some incident previously. So Purī-rāja was not present at that time. He left Purī, and he was somewhere else. So cara-paraha(?) was being done by this baḍa pāṇḍā, pūjā-pāṇḍā. Such mismanagement was there.

Prabhupāda: Who was baḍa pāṇḍā?

Gaura-govinda: There was one baḍa pāṇḍā. I don't know his name. One who does offerings.(?) He is chief of those pāṇḍās. And then, when this pulling of car... That took place just a few minutes before sunset. It was the custom that as soon as the sun set, there will be no pulling. Only Balarāma's car was pulled a few yards, dashed against a (indistinct), and four of the wheels were broken. So then it stopped. For two days there was no pulling unless it is repaired. Then for two days car stopped there. So on the third day it was pulled. The cars were pulled to the Guṇḍicā. Such things happened this year. And we were the only party who chanted before ratha from ten to four.

Prabhupāda: Only party means?

Gaura-govinda: We. Lokanātha Swami's party had arrived, and we are at Bhuvaneśvara, four, five devotees. We were there two days before at Purī, and we went there and we chanted and did kīrtana before the ratha from ten to four. There were much crowd this year, so much crowd that this whole baḍa danda(?) was filled. And above, the top of the roofs, the buildings, were all overfilled. The government people that were broadcasting of radio, they all took photos and also they recorded our kīrtana. They announced in the radio also. This incident took place this year.

Room Conversation -- November 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But stool-passing this many times is not right either. Passing stool five, six times, that is not right. It's obvious that it's a result of something. It's either the medicine or the diet. Prabhupāda says it's the medicine, just like last time when he took that makara-dhvaja, and he was right. It was the medicine. (break) ...the best thing to do. There may be some good effect by taking the medicine in addition to the causing you to pass stool. So if by giving you some other small medicine at the same time, you can still take this medicine and you don't pass stool, then that's the best thing. This only a kavirāja knows. I don't know this. I have no idea. Maybe we should take the help of that... This doesn't seem like a very difficult thing, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Passing stool is something that any kavirāja should be able to treat, and maybe for this small thing we should call that assistant who was here yesterday. That's why that kavirāja from Calcutta arranged for there to be an assistant here, in case... In other words he came and diagnosed the disease, and he made a very complicated thing, medicine that an expert had to make. And for the fact that there might be some side effect, that you may not sleep properly or you might be passing stool, something of this kind, he found out one assistant for the purpose of helping in these cases. So why not carry through with that and take the help of this assistant, see what he says? This is a common ailment that people have, diarrhea or passing stool too often, loose bowels. That's not a very major problem.

Prabhupāda: No, you have to stop.

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So you can sing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Softly. (break) Kavirāja says that he has so many nice patients he will not leave. So how he's treating now?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have not inquired about that, Śrīla Prabhupāda. His point was that they depend upon his presence for treatment. That means that even if they were to die because he was not personally available to treat them, he did not think that it was very much important in comparison to treating Your Divine Grace. Because they are materialists, so whether they live or die does not affect anything so much. But because you are a great transcendentalist, your presence means that so many thousands of people can be saved. How are you feeling, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Not so good. I am passing stool.

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. You make me flat. (break)

Jayapatākā: We heard that Your Divine Grace had a dream that a kavirāja of the Rāmānuja-sampradāya would treat you and bring you back to strength, and this kavirāja says that in a very short time, following the treatment, you would regain your strength. Although he hasn't got all of the medicines yet, but within a day or two they'll all be prepared, and he says within fifteen days you should be quite improved in strength. So far, he seems to have been quite sincere.

Prabhupāda: No, no, he's sincere. I'll drink milk. Whatever strength is obtainable, there will be.

Jayapatākā: Like to follow the same treatment, only while traveling.

Haṁsadūta: So we should meet and make a program for going around Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Yes.