Prabhupāda: Second scene, fourth act, Caitanya Mahāprabhu after finishing His South Indian tour, He came back to Jagannātha Purī, His headquarter, and after some days He started for Vṛndāvana. While He was in Vṛndāvana He was embracing the tree as old friend, and the birds were sitting on His hand, as if receiving an old friend. Because He was Kṛṣṇa. So after many years they have seen. And that scene, if you can describe how He's traveling in the Vṛndāvana forest. Then He took bath in the several vānas and ghāṭas. Ghāṭas means bathing place of Kṛṣṇa's pastimes. And everywhere He felt the ecstasy of Rādhārāṇī, separation. In this way He returned from Vṛndāvana, and when He came down to Prayag, modern Allahabad, at that time He met Rūpa Gosvāmī. Rūpa Gosvāmī.
Travel (Conv. 1967 - 1975)
Expressions researched:
"travel"
|"traveled"
|"traveler"
|"traveler's"
|"travelers"
|"traveling"
|"travelings"
|"travelled"
|"travelling"
|"travels"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Interviewer: Did you come with the purpose of spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: Yes. I am an ordained minister for preaching these missionary activities. So I came here in September, 1965. Then, for one year, I was traveling in many parts of your country. In the beginning I was in Pennsylvania, Pittsburgh, and then I went to Philadelphia. Then I came to New York. And in this way I was traveling, not very much. And in 1966, in July 1st, I started my class in New York at 26 Second Avenue. That is my first starting. Then the younger generation began to come to me, and they started the San Francisco branch, Montreal branch. In this way the institution is going. And we have sent our students to Europe also. They have already started one branch in London, one in Hamburg. And we have sent our students in Honolulu. They have started a branch there. So our program is to start several..., as many branches as possible to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And it is very easy. We simply invite persons to come and chant with us. It doesn't matter what he is, what is his language, what is his religion.
Devotee (1): Sometimes, well, if you (we) slept less, we could do more for Kṛṣṇa, but at the same time you (we) would be very tired. I mean, you could be... Well, you could regulate that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Practically everything depends on practice. Abhyāsa-yoga-yuktena cetasā nānya-gāminā (BG 8.8). Abhyāsa-yoga. Abhyāsa-yoga means yoga practice... Practice it. So this whole Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to practice transferring from one kind of consciousness to another. So we require practice. Just like one man can run few miles. I cannot run even one mile. He has practiced. We see some boys, they run, run on. They practice. Practice it. Strength of the heart increasing by practice. And if I run, my heart will be palpitating. Because I have no practice. So by practice, everything can be attained. Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. (break) ...determination. And this determination is increased by celibacy. Brahmacārya is recommended to keep oneself determined. A brahmacārī, if he determines something, he executes. He has got that strength of mind. Those who are too much addicted to sex life, they cannot be determined. They cannot be fixed-up. They are fluctuating, changing. People are, in modern day, they cannot sit down in a place for a long time. Therefore so much traveling. The traveling business is very prosperous. Everyone wants to travel.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That's how it should be. It is just very difficult, you see, to travel. I have... It is difficult to travel with these women in the way. I remember what you said to me that the, originally, you were most desirous to have just married people, and you would travel with them.
Prabhupāda: That is very nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So I was thinking that... And I was thinking the next best thing to that is just married people and brahmacārī. If you can't have just married people, then married people and brahmacārīs.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is nice. That is nice.
Prabhupāda: But how she can travel with you? She has no husband.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. So what do you think? Is it all right for her to travel with us or better not to?
Prabhupāda: Because she has no husband?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.
Prabhupāda: Therefore it does not look very nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Doesn't look right.
Prabhupāda: But in your country there are so many concessions. That is a different thing. But at least, in India, no... (laughs) In your country there cannot be any such restriction. In that way, she can go. But she is also, after all, young. She is also... Although she has got children, she is also young. She is not old enough. What is her age?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Thirty.
Prabhupāda: Oh, just young.
Madhudviṣa: Did Lord Caitanya have women, householders traveling with Him when He went on saṅkīrtana?
Prabhupāda: Yes. They were following. Still, saṅkīrtana, they follow. But they have got their husband. Saṅkīrtana, everyone can...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Children too.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Everyone. Saṅkīrtana means assembly. Bahubhir militva kirtayatiti saṅkīrtanaḥ. That is the derivation. When many people assemble together and chant, that is called saṅkīrtana. If you alone chant, that is called kīrtana. And when you chant in assembly that is called saṅkīrtana.
Prabhupāda: Annapūrṇa is always present wherever I go. (laughing) She is very nice, that she wants to follow me. This morning I was asking her that "After your marriage where you want to stay?" and she said, "Wherever you stay, I stay." "And I am traveling. Then you are married. You must have a place to settle." Anyway, in that church they charged us for meeting, but we collected very nicely. We collected more than hundred dollars. Yes. A very nice meeting.
Janārdana: How many people were there?
Prabhupāda: More than hundred, because we collected hundred dollars, and utmost, they have paid one dollar.
Janārdana: The summer season is very slow in Montreal. The churches cut down their sermon program. The synagogues don't having sermons in the summer very often. So that's why we haven't had so many engagements. But in the month of September things begin to pick up faster. The coldest time of the year is the busiest time of the year here actually. The real busy season is January and February.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I was speaking to Gaurasundara that Janārdana speaks, "The winter season is the busiest season," and you said, "It is dull season"? (chuckles)
Reporter: ...about the movement, and it occurred to me...I was wondering if there were any religious people in this country that had any misgivings or thoughts about the trip around the moon. And whether there were any objections or opinions that would run contrary to the usual thought about traveling to the moon, and he said that in some of your recent lectures you had said that man would not be able to land on the moon because of, now these are his words, because of spiritual beings there or that there would be an impossibility or something along that line. I was wondering if you could elaborate on that or explain what you meant.
Prabhupāda: You are particularly interested with that subject matter?
Reporter: Yes. I told Dan that was what I was interested in. I have background information on the movement, for instance, and yourself.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So far the movement is concerned, it has nothing to do with the moon planetary journey, it has nothing to do. But in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the authoritative Vedic scripture which we generally follow, in that scripture there is statement that for promoting oneself to the moon planet, one has to accustom himself to the different kind of worshiping process. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated that yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). Those who are worshiper of the demigods, they are promoted to different planets of the particular demigods.
Prabhupāda: First of all, a boy is trained as brahmacārī, spiritual life. Then he is advised not to enter family life. But if he is unable to control his sex life, he is allowed, "All right. You get yourself married." Then he remains in family life. So he marries at the age of 24 or 25. 25 years, let him enjoy sex life. In the meantime, he gets some elderly children. So at the age of 50, the husband and wife goes away from the home and they travel in all places of pilgrimage just to detach them from family affection. In this way, when the man is a little more advanced, he asks his wife that "You go and take care of the family and your sons, grown-up, they'll take care of you. Let me take sannyāsa." So he becomes alone and preaches the knowledge which he has acquired. This is Vedic civilization. Not that a man should remain in family life from birth to death. No. In Buddhism also there is compulsory regulative principle that a Buddhist must become a sannyāsī at least for ten years. Yes. Because the whole idea is how to attain spiritual perfection. So if one remains in his family life, encumbered, he cannot make any spiritual advancement. But if the family also, whole family is Kṛṣṇa conscious, then it is helpful. But that is very rare. Because the husband may be Kṛṣṇa conscious, the wife may not be. But the culture was so nice that everyone remained Kṛṣṇa conscious.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Interviewer: This was in New York?
Prabhupāda: Yes. I first came in New York. Then I went to Pittsburgh, and for one year I was traveling, and I established this society in July 1, 1966.
Interviewer: How many centers are there now?
Prabhupāda: There are six centers. Why six? Seven. Seven centers. One in New York, one in San Francisco, one in Los Angeles, and one, Santa Fe, one, Montreal, one, Boston, one, Buffalo.
Interviewer: And do you spend a certain amount of time in each center? Do you yourself travel from one center to another?
Prabhupāda: Yes. I travel... Just like now I am this side, and from here I'll go to New York. Then I shall go to Boston. Then I shall go to Buffalo. Then I shall go to Montreal. In this way I travel.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that is... Yes. That is Sanskrit scholar. Not in prose. He'll go on composing verses. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu at that time was sixteen years old boy, but He was very learned logician. So the Keśava Kāśmīrī, he was traveling all over India by, I mean to say, competing other paṇḍitas, other learned scholars. So he, everywhere he was victorious. So he came to Navadvīpa. And in those days Navadvīpa and Benares and Udipi and Kashmir, four, five places, were very scholarly.
Allen Ginsberg: I have been to Birbhum.
Prabhupāda: Birbhum.
Allen Ginsberg: I've been through Birbhum, yes. Navadvīpa also.
Prabhupāda: So when he came to Navadvīpa, that was the... In all other places he was victorious. So all the Navadvīpa paṇḍitas, they conferred that "Nimāi Paṇḍita should be forwarded to talk with him. And if he is defeated by Nimāi Paṇḍita, then we'll become victorious because a boy has defeated him. But if Nimāi Paṇḍita becomes defeated, then we'll get another chance: 'No, you have defeated boy. Let us come.' " In this way they make. So Keśava Kāśmīrī was informed that first of all he'll have to talk with Nimāi Paṇḍita. So one day Nimāi Paṇḍita, boy Nimāi Paṇḍita, was talking with his disciples, students. And Keśava Kāśmīrī was strolling on the Ganges side. So he heard that this boy is Nimāi Paṇḍita. "Oh, I will have to talk with Him? He is a boy." So he went there, and when He was acquainted that Keśava Kāśmīrī..., "Oh, please come down, sit." So Nimāi Paṇḍita said that "I have heard that you are so learned scholar.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) This is not a good proposal. Then where you want to stay?
Hayagrīva: I'd like to go to India. Well, maybe I could travel with you. That would be nice.
Prabhupāda: No. That is not good idea. You have started this New Vrindaban. You must finish it. So you must be in charge of this place. We have to do so many things. So...
Hayagrīva: What about... Why can't two people be in charge? Why can't we both...?
Prabhupāda: No. Then he will work as vice president? Or what do you want? Temple command?
Hayagrīva: I don't know. The title doesn't make any difference. The title doesn't matter. It's just that we agree on basic issues which I think that we should agree on, not that an issue comes up, and I have one idea about, and he says, "No. I want it this way," and I can't do anything about it. For instance, say I don't want to cut down the tree there, and he says the tree must be cut down. That doesn't leave me anywhere. See? That leaves me to say, well... He can pull rank on me, which is something... I mean I'd just as soon not be involved.
Prabhupāda: So you disagree in every point?
Hayagrīva: Not every point. We don't often disagree. But I might want this tree to be left here.
Prabhupāda: Or what you decide and he must disagree that? Whatever you decide and Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja must disagree with that point? Is that the situation?
Hayagrīva: That's not necessarily so.
Prabhupāda: Then both of you are required. Then how you can say that "I'll leave this place," how he can say he'll leave? You must jointly work because both of you, you have started this New Vrindaban, and you have to work jointly. There may be sometimes disagreement, but you should settle up. Otherwise how you can make progress? He's a sannyāsī. He has got the right to travel. That is his business. He can go and preach. That is actually his business. His business is not to stay any place. Just like I am also; in this old age I am traveling, parivrājaka. So if you think that you can do without him, then he can travel and sometimes he may come here.
Hayagrīva: Well, I think he's necessary here. Definitely we need him.
Prabhupāda: So if his presence is necessary, then he is a sannyāsī; he should be given some responsible post. And if he is not necessary, then his main business is to go. Now, if I... I am getting older. If he travels all over the centers and sees as superintendent what things are going on, that will be also nice. And in my absence he can deliver speech and in that way he can get experience. Now he went to North Carolina. He did nicely. So... I know that both of you are required here to develop this center. Not that if you say, "I go," and if he says he goes, then this place, the advancement which is progressing, this will be stopped. It is now in the nascent stage. You should not neglect now. You should work conjointly.
Hayagrīva: Well, I don't care. I'll leave it up to you then. I'll leave it up to you. You can do what you want.
Prabhupāda: No... You... My... I have explained. He is... As a sannyāsī, he should live everywhere temporarily just like I live temporarily. Aniketa. A sannyāsī should not have a permanent place. Anywhere he goes, temporary. So because you think that his service is required, then he should remain here. Otherwise, as he has accepted sannyāsa order, he should travel, go and preach. And especially nowadays, I cannot go everywhere. He can go, and he can recruit members. He can make propaganda of New Vrindaban to many persons, to the, I mean to say, foundations. As I have suggested, make pamphlet. So he can do outside work very nicely for developing Vṛndāvana.
Hayagrīva: How much of his time do you think should be spent doing this?
Prabhupāda: Which one?
Hayagrīva: Preaching and traveling.
Prabhupāda: He should always preach and travel. Always. There is immense field here. He should convince people that we are developing such centers. And you make a nice literature, picture. You go. He is educated. He is intelligent. He has studied our philosophy. He can go and speak.
Prabhupāda: That is... No. So far, if you ask my advice, he should do that work, outside propaganda, preaching. But as you say that his presence is required, therefore I say he may remain here. Otherwise, to remain here is not his duty as a sannyāsī. That is actually your duty, to organize the local management and everything. And his duty is outside work, preaching. He may have one assistant, and he can travel. He can educate your countrymen that "Here is a nice thing we are developing. Please come and cooperate." Invite him, and when he comes you receive him and give him good reception. In this way you have to make propaganda, outside and inside. Just like Kṛṣṇa is making outside and inside propaganda. Inside He is Supersoul; outside He is spiritual master to reclaim these fallen souls. Similarly, we should also work outside-inside. And for making outside propaganda, I think he will be the best man. Suppose if he goes to New York, stays for some time, sees respectable foundation and presidents and just to attract their attention this side... Similarly, if he goes Los Angeles, San Francisco, all other cities, Boston, and sees important men, makes propaganda that "We are doing this. Please come and help," that will be very nice.
Prabhupāda: But if he remains here, you say, "It must remain," he says, "It must be burned," and then there will be kalaha, quarrel. You see? Better you let him travel, and when he comes, if he gives his suggestion that "This tree should be burned," and now you decide whether it should be burned or should remain. And if he works outside, then we can very quickly develop because we get outside sympathy for developing this center. I think that should be the way. What it is bringing?
Śyāma: Paper.
Prabhupāda: Some paper. (laughs) So inside-outside work must be done.
Hayagrīva: Well, are you leaving the decision up to me or what? Are you leaving the decision up to me?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Local management, your decision, yes.
Hayagrīva: No, I mean whether he's to stay here or to travel or what.
Prabhupāda: No. Your decision is all right, but now he can give some suggestion. Actually, when you are in charge of, your decision will be all right. But just like we make a plan. That is not one man's decision. That is the society's decision. Suppose if we want to construct a temple here. So in this way we have to cooperate. Otherwise how it can be developed?
Hayagrīva: I'd rather not be totally in charge because it's too much work. I mean I don't want to be in that sense responsible for the whole thing.
Prabhupāda: Then in your absence this secretary will do or this maṭha command will do.
Prabhupāda: Aristocrats. The same system the Britishers introduced in India also. They were called zamindari. (break) That is sannyāsī's business.
Hayagrīva: I see somebody's going to get stuck with a lot of traveling tickets.
Prabhupāda: That Kṛṣṇa will provide. That doesn't matter. You see?
Hayagrīva: So I want to make certain that this is your...
Prabhupāda: Sometimes I think that "I came here with no money, and now I am spending so much money in traveling." (laughter) Aeroplanes. As soon as I get on aeroplane, immediately two hundred dollars. And not only I am, my assistant also. So Kṛṣṇa will provide. That doesn't matter.
Hayagrīva: This is the way, I mean, you want it. I don't quite understand...
Prabhupāda: Yes. I think... No... You see, if we actually serious about developing this place, then we must do propaganda work outside also. Not only inside management, but outside also, we should draw the sympathy of the people. Don't you think it is necessary?
Hayagrīva: It's necessary.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. It may be understood that he was Śeṣa, but that was the incident. And another incident is that when He was just walking... So it is the system that small children, they are decorated with ornaments here, here, bangle, so many ornaments, here. So one thief saw that... He stole away the child. So he was seeking some secret place, lonely place, so that he can rob of... In this way seeking, seeking, he traveled, and at last he came just in front of the house, and he dropped the child, that "Somebody may see that I have taken this child. Then I'll be beaten, I will be caught." So out of fear he fled away. And the guardians, ladies, they were very much anxious, "Who has taken the child? He was with ornaments." But they saw that the child is there. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu enjoyed for some time on the shoulder of the thief.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that a nice scene to perform?
Prabhupāda: Yes. While He was traveling in South India, in a village that leper Vasudeva, he was coming to see Caitanya from a very distant place. And then when he came to see Him, Caitanya Mahāprabhu had already left. So he was so sorry and crying. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu came back and embraced him and he was cured. These are some of the miracles.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In the introduction to the Teachings of Lord Caitanya, up until the age of 31 there is description, but then there is very little description from the age of 31 to Lord Caitanya's disappearance. Maybe you can tell me as much as you can of what happened...
Prabhupāda: He left His home at the age of 24 years. Then He made His headquarter in Jagannātha Purī. For six years He traveled all over India. That means up to thirty years. And after that He remained in Jagannātha Purī for 18 years. He was chanting in the evening in the Jagannātha temple, and taking bath. And during this car festival all devotees, especially from Bengal, would go there and live there for four months. And after seeing the Rathayātrā ceremony, they will remain there for four months. Then they will come back. This was going on year after year.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Mohsin Hassan: Could you recall the beginning of your first trip to USA and how you spread the message? I was told that you came here with six dollars, and then...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because our government, India government would not allow to take money to go outside. So somehow or other I got the P-form sanction, and one big shipping company, they allowed me free passage. So I came here with great difficulty. Of course I was very comfortably situated on the sea, but still, because I am not accustomed, I got sea sickness. So the travel was very miserable. Still I came. Then for one year, I was going here and there, there was no fixed-up position, and then in 1...9, I came here in 1965, September, then 1966, July, I incorporated the society and started my preaching in a storefront, and... Second Avenue. And then gradually the students came and it developed, one branch after. Now we have got sixty branches, and our expenditure is very heavy. According to Indian calculation it is about 700,000's of rupees. We are paying every rent, we have got in each center not less than twenty-five devotees, up to hundred, hundred and fifty. So it is going on by Kṛṣṇa's grace.
Prabhupāda: So we are publishing all our books in a scholarly way so that professors, teachers, philosophers, they, they can read it. And it is very easily done. Word-to-word, Sanskrit word, English, and diacritic marks. So we are working very hard. So if it is introduced among the scholarly sections, professors, teachers, it will be very beneficial to the human society.
Mohsin Hassan: Do you do your printing in Japan and America?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. I am... Whenever I travel, I travel all over, around the world.
Mohsin Hassan: I want to ask... Just a few more minutes. You went to Russia. What's your impression?
Prabhupāda: Yes, Russia is the same people. They are anxious to receive this movement. Very much anxious.
Mohsin Hassan: And are you intent to (indistinct) over there?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mohsin Hassan: I see.
Prabhupāda: But their government is very strict. Government is very strict. So unless we get permission from the government... Because they have no culture in literature. They're simply reading this Lenin book. So one professor, a Dr. Kotovsky, he told me that Indian Rāmāyaṇa, Tulsi dasa's Rāmāyaṇa—that's not very good philosophy—still, it was translated into Russian language, and within a week, all the books are sold. Just see. So they are hankering after this cultural book. Approximately... We have no means now; otherwise there is immense, good field for Kṛṣṇa consciousness in Russia.
Prabhupāda: Allahabad, Gorakhpur. So same thing. And for persons spiritually inclined, for them this traveling is very good. Traveling means with this occupation. It is very good. You'll be more popular and there will be no difficulty, mind will be steady.
Śyāmasundara: It takes away our attachment for everything materially.
Prabhupāda: The Gosvāmīs, they did not stay underneath a tree for more than one night. So you decide; then you do the needful.
Haṁsadūta: When should we arrange for Śivānanda's fire ceremony?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Singh: (Sanskrit)-mukha.
Prabhupāda: Yes, (Sanskrit)-mukha. And one American lady, when she saw these boys are chanting on the street, she was surprised. She said that "Are you Americans?" She was surprised. One priest, when I was traveling from Los Angeles to Hawaii, one priest in..., gentleman there sitting, out of his own accord he came to me and began to talk with me that "Swamiji, I see in the face of your students brightness. How you have created brightness?" He admitted that. Another priest, Christian priest in New York..., in Boston, he issued a pamphlet that "These boys and girls, they are our boys. But we see they have got this nice qualification, they are mad after God, but we could not give them." So it is a process. The madness after God is there in everywhere, in every heart. But because it is now covered, we have to...
Dr. Singh: Would you have (indistinct)? We are having dinner later, of course. I thought maybe you would want something to start with.
Prabhupāda: One glass of water will be fine.
Prabhupāda: Next time when you go to London...
Dr. Singh: Yes, I'll definitely visit. I requested you to send me the list of your centers because I travel constantly throughout the world. And wherever I go, I can always look up the thing, and if I find a center there, I can drop into the center.
Śyāmasundara: Every city.
Dr. Singh: This is a new (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) Actually people are accepting this great culture of India. The (indistinct).
Dr. Singh: How long you are in India now?
Prabhupāda: At least three months.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So was this material advancement less than this? And this is description of five thousand years ago. So here in Tokyo Kobe, in Japan there is so much industrials. We find the common man, 99% they are living on matchboxes. That's all. How many men are living in this nice apartment? The common man is living in matchbox. So this is not material advancement. A few people exploiting them in their factory. They are working and they are living in this nice building. But the common man is living in matchbox houses. We traveled these three hundred miles, or four hundred miles. We saw simply 99% matchboxes. What do you think, Bhānu? Is it not?
Bhānu: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Śyāmasundara: Yes, one can see Kṛṣṇa on three different levels of realization. The one level is this impersonal brahma-jyotir-merging level. That is called the elementary step, the first step towards God realization. And then the second step is when one realizes that God is isolated or localized within his heart, and this is the stage the great yogis and mystics attain. They are able to control their travel and attain other certain mystic powers. And then the highest step of self-realization is when one realizes God is the supreme person and meets Him face to face and spends his eternal life in the association of God in a personal relationship. There are five different kinds of personal relationships one can have with God: as His friend, as His father or His parent, or as His servant, like that, or as His lover. So if one, if one comes to this stage of realization, that "I am part and parcel of God," that "God is a person; therefore I am a person, and I remain person eternally," then he gets fixed up in his final, original, constitutional position, relationship, and there is no more higher place to go. So... And in this relationship, he understands that "Because God is very great and I am very small, then my position is to serve God." So I engage in a personal serving relationship, with a personal serving mode. In this way I'm always satisfied. I'm always relating with God, in everything I do, serving Him with everything I have. And this is where the spiritual master is the representative of Kṛṣṇa because he engages us in serving Kṛṣṇa. Just like there may be some big man and you want to enter into his service and meet this big man, but you have no qualification. But if this big man has a friend who is also your friend, this friend can introduce you and engage you somehow in this big man's service. This is the duty of the spiritual master. He accepts a disciple to make sure and guarantee that that disciple will meet God face to face, if he follows his orders.
Prabhupāda: Now answer, question, try to understand. What he has explained, have you understood?
Impersonalist: I think so.
Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa is also individual, you are also individual, but He is the head. Just like in our group we are all individual, but I am the head, similarly, there are innumerable individual souls, all over the universe, and the head individual soul is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice. So Veda, Veda means knowledge. So every human being should be interested for advancement of knowledge. So our movement is not a religious movement. It is a movement for advancement of knowledge. And this knowledge, God consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is especially meant for this human body. Because knowledge cannot be given to animals. I cannot speak to the other animals about knowledge because they are imperfect. Their body is imperfect. They are not suitable for receiving knowledge. Only elementary knowledge for maintaining this body, they have got: where to secure food, where to sleep, how to have sexual intercourse, and how to defend. These knowledges are there in animals also. So human being requires further knowledge. That is special prerogative, gift by God, by nature. Whatever you say. So we should utilize this human body for furtherance of knowledge. And the first important knowledge is that we should know that there is life after death. That is the basic principle of knowledge. Unfortunately at the present moment, in no university there is any department of knowledge where this education is given where there is life after death. I am traveling all over the world.
Prabhupāda: Lord Caitanya is preaching simply this, that you all chant Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, or Hare Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Ei śikhā diyā, sab nadīyā phirche nece' gaura-nitāi. "By teaching this philosophy, the two brothers, Gaura-Nitāi, are traveling all over Nadia." Māyār bośe, jāccho bhese', Khāccho hābuḍubu bhāi. "Why you are being carried away by the waves of māyā? Why, unnecessarily? And you are being drowned and saved." Jīv kṛṣṇa-dās, e biśwās, korle, "Simply believe that you are eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, then all these troubles immediately gone." Bolbe jabe, pulak ha'be, that "If you chant this, then you will feel ecstasy." Rādhā kṛṣṇa bolo, saṅge calo, ei-mātra bhikhā, "So I don't ask you anything. Simply chant and come with me." Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Have you got puffed rice? No.
Devotee (2): In the shop. You have to get it from the shop.
Prabhupāda: But I don't think you can get now.
Prabhupāda: Why not full or double? You may have doubled.
Devotee (1): It's inconceivable.
Prabhupāda: Just like my Guru Mahārāja did not travel all over the world, so I have got double energy than him. So you must triple energy, four times energy than me. Then actually disciple. My Godbrothers are envious because they could not do. They could not do even half of Guru Mahārāja's work, and I am doing ten times. So therefore they are envious. So if an ordinary man like me can do ten times, you are Americans-twenty times, then you are successful.
Devotee (1): If we can do twenty times, it's only because you gave us the energy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. My blessings are there, you do it, try. Just like Guru Mahārāja gave blessings to everyone, but if they do not try, if they remain Kuñja Babu, then they'll remain Kuñja Babu, what can be done? If he's satisfied only one building in Māyāpur and two buildings in Vṛndāvana, that is his only ambition. The ambition is poor.
Prabhupāda: Ah, no problem. GBC means now they should tour very extensive. That is the first principle, the GBC. Not sit down (in) one place and pass resolution. No, they must be active. They must act like me. As I am old man, I am traveling all over the world. Now to give me relief, the GBC members... I shall expand into twelve more so that they can exactly work like me. Gradually they will be initiators. At least first initiation. You must make advance. That is my motive. So, in that way I want to divide it in twelve zones. And we have to make more propaganda throughout the whole world. Now if you think that the world is so big, twelve members are insufficient, then you can increase more than that and make the zone similarly divided. It is world affair after all.
Devotee: So only keep thirteen GBC at this point? Will Bali-mardana stay at the Press and be considered GBC?
Prabhupāda: But, he is not going to travel, Bali-mardana?
Devotee: No.
Devotee: Unless he can find a substitute to manage the Press. (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: First point is the GBC member must be extensively traveling.
Devotee: What about my position, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Now, everyone's position will be considered. This is the first thing, extensively traveling.
Devotee: So, the positions of Bali-mardana and Karandhara, they have to remain stationary so much. We have to consider that...
Prabhupāda: No, stationary one thing is that the Bali-mardana, especially Karandhara, he has got already extensive field locally.
Devotee: Do you want us to make more zones now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: You make ourself. Because thirteen, you are making now thirteen. You make thirteen.
Devotee: No, actually there's twelve, and Bali-mardana is staying at the press and he is going to travel around. We want to increase and make more...
Prabhupāda: That's all right, that's all right. Bali-mardana will be stagnant.
Śyāmasundara: He can oversee some foreign...
Prabhupāda: Yes, he has this book department. Book department and... They may move according to convenience, Bali-mardana and Karandhara. He has got also very responsibility, with this department, that department. He has to purchase small houses. So big brain (indistinct). So similarly, you also think on the books. Everyone take big responsibility. Then we have to serve this mission. The people are foolish, they have forgotten God. We are delivering them. Best service. And without God, it is all useless, zero, all this civilization. Zero. Whatever they are making advancement, it is all zero. And nonsense. But actually it is. Now the priestly order supporting homosex. I was surprised.
Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda? We've got a traveling saṅkīrtana group coming here (indistinct) from Dallas. The boys are stopping to see you. In two days Dvārakādhīśa distributed about one hundred of your Back to Godheads, and so many Kṛṣṇa books. And all the boys took part in saṅkīrtana. It would be very nice...
Prabhupāda: They want to see me? They want to see me?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: No, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Then? What he says?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: He says that when they were on their way to New York City, the students distributed hundred Back to Godhead and went on saṅkīrtana.
Devotee (2): In two days Dvārakādhīśa distributed over a hundred.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: And Dvārakādhīśa did over a hundred in two days.
Prabhupāda: Very good. That's a great service. What is that?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: He has a camera. He's making a movie.
Prabhupāda: He's from America.
Guest: From California.
Sumati Morarjee: All from California?
Devotee: He travels around England and preaches in all the villages, small towns.
Sumati Morarjee: Where's that?
Devotee: Here, in England, Scotland.
Guest: I also met you in Bombay once.
Sumati Morarjee: Yes, yes, I have seen you in Bombay. And what about you?
Devotee: I'm Scottish.
Sumati Morarjee: Ah, because you look...
Prabhupāda: In Edinborough we have got a temple.
Devotee: ...how a man such as yourself, in such a high position and such hierarchy was able to leave all this in order to bring this message to others?
Prabhupāda: No. It's not to be... Life is divided into four parts: brahmacārī, student, gṛhastha, householder, vānaprastha, retired life and sannyāsa. Everyone should follow this principle. First of all, as brahmacārī student he should learn sufficiently what is the value of life. Then, when he's a householder, he should live properly with husband, wife and children-properly. Then, after retired life, giving the responsibility of household life to grown-up children, he should take lessons from saintly persons. (indistinct) Then at the end he should take sannyāsa. Whatever knowledge he has gathered he must distribute by traveling from one place to another. This is Vedic civilization. Everyone should come out. Not that they should remain at home and drink and sleep for the whole life. This is Vedic civilization.
Prabhupāda: You give to Nanda Kumāra, because he will give.
Revatīnandana: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: (converses in Hindi with Indian about traveling saṅkīrtana party in Birmingham, Cardiff)
Devotee (1): She was very happy, Sumati Morarji.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Devotee (1): She went away very happy.
Prabhupāda: Everyone will be happy when you are Kṛṣṇa's devotee. You see? She's seeing Kṛṣṇa's so many devotees. That is Kṛṣṇa bhakta.
Devotee (2): She said she wanted to see the Deities before leaving.
Prabhupāda: And she saw?
Revatīnandana: Two months ago she came here for most of the aratik ceremony. The devotees came out to say goodbye to her, and she said, "Go back and do aratik."
Prabhupāda: So here we shall give you books, cost price only, and you sell books by profit only and spend for building.
Dhanañjaya: Traveling Saṅkīrtana Party is very strong here. There's some very nice boys now.
Revatīnandana: They go out and they simply distribute, and just like I think in San Francisco, Keśava's... He began it here. They just go out with literature and simply to distribute literature, you know, in that way.
Prabhupāda: So Keśava's feeling not well, then he can come here.
Devotee (2): He wanted to. He wanted to bring his party here.
Prabhupāda: He can do that. Let him do that. Write him.
Revatīnandana: But actually he may improve it even more. They are already a good group. They are doing all right.
Prabhupāda: Very expert. Not only good, very expert.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dhanañjaya: We are collecting, on Oxford Street, we're collecting about forty, fifty pounds a day, and on travelling saṅkīrtana, sixty, seventy pounds, because they're doing it for more hours. So altogether we're over a hundred pounds a day.
Prabhupāda: Now you are GBC here, you have come, now you make it hundred pounds daily. How to do it, he knows.
Dhanañjaya: But, but there is already hundred pounds coming. Two hundred pounds, then.
Prabhupāda: And his best friend is George. (laughs)
Devotee: I'm going to see him tomorrow.
Devotee (1): Is he in town?
Prabhupāda: He can alone make purchase a good temple. George alone can purchase.
Jayatīrtha: If you're going to travel, you should go to a worthwhile place. There's no reason to waste time.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) the outer space, but they do not know where to go.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: These scientists, they are trying to travel in the outer space, but they do not know where to go.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, that's a fact. They are just wandering in the wild.
Prabhupāda: That's all. (indistinct) beyond the sky there is another sky (indistinct) and we are trying to go there according to the perfect knowledge (indistinct). (break) ...of knowledge is misunderstanding, so how they can get perfect knowledge? If you begin from mistake, misconception, then where is your perfect knowledge? The beginning is this body. Beyond this body, they have no knowledge. Their rascal knowledge..., this rascal knowledge, how they can help you? Anything, suppose any mathematical calculation, if the beginning is wrong, then how you will come to the right conclusion? What do you think?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, when the...
Prabhupāda: Ah, the conditions. So first of all you come out of the conditioned life. Just like we are trying to go to other planets with so many machines, so many mechanical arrangements. But if you have got spiritual body, you can go anywhere. Anywhere you can go. As Nārada Muni is going, traveling, any planet he likes he is going. That freedom is there, but that is in spiritual body. So you come to the spiritual body first, then you get all freedom. Whatever you like, you can do. Whatever you desire, you can get.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like Śrīla Prabhupāda gives the example like Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it might look like poison at the beginning, but at the end it will be nectar.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And so they..., they're reversing that, these people who...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. What is appearing as poison in the beginning, that will prove nectar at the end. (break) Even ordinary dealings. Just like I have given one watch to Śyāmasundara, that Omega. So I paid him... One hundred dollars has been spent to make it correct time, but it is not. Everyone, "Yes, I will make it repaired."
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Jayatīrtha: (indistinct) is in charge of our traveling saṅkīrtana party, so he's back here for a few days. They're going around to all the fairs, state fairs, county fairs, and distributing literature. He's had very great success
Prabhupāda: Indians are coming in Europe and America to learn technology, but next generation will come here to learn spiritual science, to seek brāhmaṇas. What do you think?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, there's no doubt about it. They will learn technology the coming years, and when they become frustrated again, then they will again learn the spiritual science.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Kapoor: That's very encouraging. That's most encouraging.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are selling our books, average, at the rate of 25,000 rupees per day.
Dr. Kapoor: Ah. That is unbelievable, I must...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So they are selling magazines, books, and especially our Nectar of Devotion is selling like hotcakes. (laughter) Nectar of Devotion. So Kṛṣṇa is encouraging. There is no scarcity. And I am traveling throughout the world at least twice in a year. And each time we have to spend... Now we purchased $20,000 ticket for four persons. $20,000. $20,000 means how much in Indian exchange? $20,000 to ten times.
Dr. Kapoor: 200...
Prabhupāda: 200,000. That means two lakhs. So our expenditure is going like that. Keep books. And we print at least ten thousand books, fifty thousand books. Our Kṛṣṇa Trilogy. Have you got here, Kṛṣṇa Trilogy? You have seen?
Dr. Kapoor: No.
Prabhupāda: Show him that book, Kṛṣṇa Trilogy. That is selling. That is now recommended in some of the colleges as textbook. Nectar of Devotion is also recommended as a textbook in the Temple University, Pittsburgh.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So this cheating process is going on. But you cannot cheat Kṛṣṇa or māyā, that is not possible. It is gosvāmī, that is (indistinct) Don't make compromise that somehow or other just chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, everything will be done. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Duratyayā. It is very difficult to surmount the laws of nature. So how is that achieved? Just like laws of nature are so strict, if you eat more, immediately you get indigestion. So how you can cheat? You can experience. Nature's law is working. Therefore, to become brāhmaṇa means satyam. You know the meaning of satyam? Satyam means truth. The first quality is he is truthful. Satyaṁ śaucam ārjavam āstikyaṁ jñānaṁ vijñānam. The beginning is satyam. Generally the people in pilgrimages like Vṛndāvana, they have taken this religiousness as a profession to earn money, just like other businessmen do. That is cheating. Generally they do so. In Los Angeles they are keeping the standard given by ourself. At every āratik in early morning, at least 150 men. Even though I am not present, by system, by kīrtana, dancing, offering Deity worship nicely (indistinct). So we have to maintain the standard very strictly. Otherwise it will again become Rādhā-Dāmodara temple and Bharatpur Mahārāja (indistinct). You will have to find out some customer to sell it.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: He has traveled all over the world.
Devotee: Yes. He has.
Guest (1): When my young period, young period.
Prabhupāda: What is your age now?
Guest (1): Seventy-two. I like the ship, so old man prefers cheaper trip than air, (indistinct) so I take air from Indonesia (indistinct) only and take ship to Alexandria. (indistinct) From Alexandria to Morocco I take (indistinct) bus, big bus like Union Pacific before from east side the west side America, we take big bus (indistinct) four days only I arrive at (indistinct) Morocco. And maybe I cross to Andalusia, Spain, not near Madrid, Castillian (indistinct) again take ship from (indistinct) railway from Manchester to (indistinct) So still seven years I loitering. And this only to see old friend in Edinburgh, and I see old, old man (indistinct) I am also old man, not so long time, within one year I down, I never been South America, only up to Mexico so I go to (indistinct). And stay, I contracted only one contract three years but I want to work, job, one year, highest salary there so and finish I go to Argentina from Santiago Chile I take the ship again to, Sydney, my younger brother, Sydney and go back from (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: In Sydney also we have got temple.
Prabhupāda: Majāiyā man. (pause) (break) ...any sea-going ship ?
Karandhara: Well, they travel...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Karandhara: It's not really a well-traveled route. The ones that do travel are usually out farther in the channel. There's a big point. So they just go farther out so they don't have to curve around, all around the coast. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...animals, goes like this?
Karandhara & Svarūpa Dāmodara: Crabs?
Karandhara: Crabs and lobsters, yeah.
Brahmānanda: Birds. (pause)
Prabhupāda: They have got suitable beak, suitable beak to capture. Yes. (pause) What is this big bird?
Brahmānanda: A seagull.
Prabhupāda: They also eat fish?
Brahmānanda: Fish and garbage, everything.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Prabhupāda: It is, it is finished? The moon planet is finished?
Karandhara: For the time being.
Brahmānanda: Yes, their, their travels there are finished.
Prabhupāda: Simply by taking some dust?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Just see how much...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Millions of dollars.
Prabhupāda: How great asses they are.
Karandhara: Billions.
Prabhupāda: You, you work very hard. This rascal government takes taxes and spend unnecessarily. That's all. This is their intelligence. A set of asses. That's all. They have no sympathy "that this hard-earned money is coming from the public, and we are spending like anything." But nobody can check. This is going on. And they're giving another bluff. "Don't worry. I am going another planet."
Prabhupāda: I, I, I am traveling all over the world. My opinion is that, materially, America is happy. And spiritually some portion of India is happy. Otherwise, there is no happiness all over the world. And material happiness is illusion. That is not happiness. Because it will break at any time. Therefore that is not happiness. And spiritual happiness is real happiness. So in Russia, there is neither material nor spiritual. So they are unhappy in all respects. I asked Professor Kotovsky to call for a taxi. So he said: "Well, it is Moscow. Very difficult to get taxi." So he came down himself, he showed us this way: "Please go in this way, in this way, and you get (to) your hotel." He's a big man. He knows that taxi will not be available. And there are few taxis only, show. I did not see any store very neat and clean, well-decorated. Not a single. All old with dust. As if antique shop. The antique shop, just like in your country. I was daily having my morning walk in the Red Square. The most dangerous square...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: What square?
Prabhupāda: Red Square. Yes. I think you have got my picture.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is the desire of the spirit soul.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante (BG 4.11). Freedom is given. Kṛṣṇa says, "Whatever you want, you can take." Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ (BG 9.25). Everything is freedom.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Then why is it in the Vaivarta Purāṇa, after traveling 8,400,000 species of life, we get this human form of life? Is that contradiction with the...?
Prabhupāda: No. Because in the lower form of life, the progress is by the laws of nature, and in the human form of life, you get consciousness development. Therefore you have got discretion. The other forms, they have no discretion, one after another.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. My point being the... Some human beings, they come without traveling through these 8,400,000 species.
Prabhupāda: Then he can come.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like there are different nations. They are already existing. So jāti means that. Jāti means born of a particular species. That is jāti. Jīva-jātiṣu. Ṣu, plural number. So many jīva-jātiṣu. He's simply Bhramadbhiḥ. Just like I am traveling, sometimes America, some Australia, sometimes... But they are already there. I am going sometimes in America, sometimes Australia, sometimes Africa, but they are already there. I am the man; I am traveling. Not that because I have to come to America, I create America. This is nonsense. And there are many countries I have not gone there. Does it mean that they are not existing? They have no even human reason, these rascal scientists. The common sense reason. And Bhagavad-gītā clearly says they are already existing. Wherever you like, you can go. You can go even up to the kingdom of God if you so desire. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I want to know a little more about the... (end)
Prabhupāda: He has got already spiritual body. Material body is his covering. It is unnatural. Real body is spiritual. Just like your coat, this is unnatural. But your real body is natural. Otherwise how transmigration is possible? I am accepting different unnatural bodies. Unnatural means to my constitution. My real constitutional body is servant of Kṛṣṇa. So, so long I do not come to that position, I remain servant of nature and I get so many bodies. According to the nature's direction I am getting body, I am giving it up, again I am desiring something, I am getting another body. This is going on. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā (BG 3.27). He is a rascal. He is thinking, "I am this body." Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati, bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). This is a yantra, machine. And we are traveling many species of life, all riding on this car, given by nature. Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. Māyā has given this vehicle, anywhere wandering, up and down, sometimes demigod, sometimes dog. This is going on. And in this wandering process, if he gets in touch with a devotee, then his real spiritual life begins. Otherwise he has to go on, rotating.
Prabhupāda: Just like I started from India at eleven o'clock, and I came here at half past eight, the sunlight was still there. So if you proceed still further, further towards Western side, the night will not be able to come. So you can travel always in daylight. (laughs) Don't allow. It is an example.
David Wynne: Why do we choose the dark?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
David Wynne: Why do we all choose the dark? Why are we all in the dark, most of us?
Prabhupāda: Dark means without Kṛṣṇa consciousness—darkness.
Devotee (1): He asked why do we usually choose the darkness.
David Wynne: And most people.
Prabhupāda: Due to bad association.
Prabhupāda: Within ten thousand years, if they become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then life is successful. After ten thousand years, the gloomy picture of Kali-yuga will come. Still there is time. Ten thousand years is not small period. So we have passed five thousand years. So still ten thousand. We have got to the fifteen thousand years. Kali-yuga's duration of life is four hundred thousand, four hundred and twenty-seven thousand. Char-lakh murti saja. (?) Yes.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Do you travel much all over the world and...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. At least twice in a year, all over the world. Just in April I was here, in London. April? Or May?
Śyāmasundara: May.
Prabhupāda: May.
Śyāmasundara: Then to India.
Prabhupāda: In the month of May I was here. Again I have come in July. Formerly, from India to come to London, it was like a dream. And now it is daily affair. (laughs)
Vicitravīrya: This is Dr. Schumacher.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Thank you very much for your coming. I have read some of your ideas. So from your writing it appears you are nice, thoughtful man. Muni, the Sanskrit word is muni. Just like Nārada Muni. They are very thoughtful. So I have read one description of, "Crisis of Increasing Motor Cars," in this paper. Actually, we are creating a crisis. This advancement of modern civilization is simply creating crisis. One Vaiṣṇava poet, he has sung: sat-saṅga chāḍi kainu asatye vilāsa. Sat-saṅga means spiritual association. So we have given up spiritual association, and asatye vilāsa, we have taken to material enjoyment. So sat-saṅga chāḍi kainu... There are two things, material and spiritual. So sat-saṅga chāḍi kainu asatye... "I have given up spiritual association, and I have taken to material association. Therefore I have become entangled." Sei karaṇe lāgilā mora karma-bandha-phāṅsā. We are becoming more and more entangled in material activities. We are trying to solve one problem, and creating another big problem. Just like I was reading the "Motor Car Crisis." We thought that with a horseless carriage it will be very convenient to travel. But against that convenience, so-called convenience, we have created so many inconveniences. It is very nicely described in that paper I was reading.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yogeśvara: You mean in London, in London.
Prabhupāda: No. He came to Los Angeles.
Śrutakīrti: He was at different temples in the United States, he was travelling by car.
Devotee: And He came to see Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: No, he came to our temple in Los Angeles and paid three hundred dollars to the Deity.
Devotee: Oh, that's nice.
Prabhupāda: Some jewels.
Yogeśvara: That's nice. He's the most popular young poet in the United States, Bob Dylan. All the young people have his records.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Oh, this is second part. You have got the first part, second part is there?
Pradyumna: This is Kṛṣṇa Book and Teachings of Lord Caitanya.
Guest (1): (break) If I tell you how far I have been traveling, you will know into which coach to put me, yes?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): I have been seeking all my life, and I expect when I was about twenty-two I became a convert from Judaism to the Christian Church. And of recent years, as a result of a very serious illness, a heart attack, I began to get other experiences which took me right away from all this knowledge, but no wisdom. I gathered a lot of knowledge, to the extent that I was, well, I was getting nowhere. I knew all about God, but didn't know what He, who He was. I knew all about Him though. Then I was led to understand a lot of other things which did not come by reading. I couldn't tell you. They just came. Thoughts, from wherever they were, they came. So I am now currently at the stage where I acknowledge that the certainty of this world isn't worth knowing about.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda attem... He traveled to Paris, and also, previously, to Amsterdam and Germany, in years previously.
Ambassador: This temple is going to be a permanent situation, this particular building, or...?
Paramahaṁsa: Yes.
Ambassador: Or somewhere.
Paramahaṁsa: In the beginning stage, yes.
Ambassador: Yes, then you'll have to locate something.
Prabhupāda: So practically single-handed I am trying to give this original Indian culture to the world. And nobody's helping me. Neither, if some rich man wants to help me, government will not allow to help me.
Prabhupāda: Oh, in India, I shall stay about one week. Then I shall go to Japan.
Reporter (2): Do you find, uh, you must find it very, very difficult travelling all the time.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Reporter (2): What don't you like about it?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Haṁsadūta: What don't you like about travelling?
Prabhupāda: No, I like.
Reporter (2): Oh, you like it. Do you always go...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, but because I am old man, it is little troublesome for me. Otherwise, I like travelling.
Prabhupāda: Oh. So you have seen our books?
Prof. Gombrich: Yes, I have, yes. You are travelling to India, I hear?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prof. Gombrich: You are setting up a university in India?
Prabhupāda: In... What is that?
Haṁsadūta: Are you establishing a university in India?
Prabhupāda: It is not so easy thing. (Hindi)
Prof. Gombrich: At Navadvīpa?
Prabhupāda: Navadvīpa, yes.
Prof. Gombrich: And, uh...
Prabhupāda: We have begun teaching, but I do not know when it will become a university. That is a big job.
Prof. Gombrich: I see, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prajāpati: Hawaii.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because time difference. But they are seeing, "Oh, sun is so full-fledged, so shining." You are not seeing. That is your inefficiency.
Karandhara: But they are able to experience that by their traveling.
Prabhupāda: Yes, so if you travel, you will also experience. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Then you'll also experience. We don't say that you are unable to, but if you adopt the process you'll also know.
Prajāpati: There's a large group today, Śrīla Prabhupāda, called humanists and they have decided that this concept of God is not very useful. We can solve all the problems ourselves.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. These are rascals. You see, humanists, they are professing humanists and they are killing so many human beings daily. You see? These are all escapism. What is called? Escaping? They could not find any, I mean to say, solace and now humanity... What they can do? There are so many people suffering in the human society. What they can do? Suppose they are opening hospitals. Is that guarantee for a cure of disease or no death? Then what is the humanity. You cannot do anything. You may advertise yourself, " I have opened so many hospitals and beds." But what you can do? Is that guarantee that there that there will be no disease and everyone will be cured, nobody will die. Then what is the humanitarianism. You cannot do anything.
Prabhupāda: Hrishikesh, yes, that is Haridvar. So one yogi friend was coming to my father. He said that, he said that "I went with my Guru Mahārāja." They simply sit down and touch guru and after few minutes, he's in Dvārakā. This is, this is yogic power. What your aeroplane will do? Just like Durvāsā Muni, he traveled all over the universe, up to the Vaikuṇṭhaloka within one year. But according to modern calculation, they say, with light year, in forty thousand light years we can approach to the highest planet. Is it not? If they want to go to the topmost planet, how much, how many years it will take? Is there an estimation? But, so far I know, I heard it that, someplace... They have estimated it will take forty thousand leap year. Now, leap year is beyond our calculation. What is called leap year? Light year.
Prabhupāda: That, that is their... That is rascaldom. They'll say like that, but nobody has become able, neither they are able.
Karandhara: They say they can stop time.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Karandhara: They say if you travel at the speed of light, time stops.
Prabhupāda: Time stops... Anyway, nobody has gone. They have gone to the nearest planet, they say. I do not know whether they have gone at all.
Yaśomatīnandana: You don't think, Prabhupāda, they have reached the moon?
Prabhupāda: No. There are so many invisible planets. Not that all the stars and planets, you can see, just like Rāhu planet. That is not seen. And when the Rāhu planet passes through, that is eclipse, but they describe in a different way. Actually, it is the Rāhu planet which passes before the sun and moon and there is eclipse. There are so many questionable things of the theory that, the eclipse theory of the modern view. That is not correct according to Vedic theory.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Gurukṛpā: When we were just traveling this last time and collecting, Śrīla Prabhupāda, everyday we were offering some incense to Gaṇeśa, and this prayer in the Brahma-saṁhitā, yat-pāda-pallava...
Prabhupāda: Pallava-yugaṁ vinidhāya kumbha...
Gurukṛpā: We were saying this, saying, "Give us facility to collect nice lakṣmī to use to build the temple in Vṛndāvana."
Yaśodānandana: To build the temple for Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma in Vṛndāvana.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is good. Whatever possible facility is available from any person, we beg for it for Kṛṣṇa's service, not for our personal benefit. (break) ...they forget Kṛṣṇa. They forget Kṛṣṇa. When they go to worship some other demigod, they forget Kṛṣṇa, kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.20), because they have got so strong material desires that they forget Kṛṣṇa. That is harmful. Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣām (BG 7.23). They get some benefit out of the demigod, but that will not stay. Alpavat, er, antavat. Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣām. But if you take Kṛṣṇa, then it is not antavat, it will go on increasing. If you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it will never end. It will increase. Ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam, increasing. The ocean does not increase, but Kṛṣṇa consciousness is such a great ocean that it increases only. Ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Viṣṇujana: And they could travel around and teach others how to do that as well.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's right. He is brāhmaṇa, but he's teaching how to take care of the cows and ploughing.
Hṛdayānanda: It's not that one teacher has to teach everything.
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Hṛdayānanda: Oh, I see. So a brāhmaṇa teacher should become expert in a particular subject and then teach that.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hṛdayānanda: Oh. It's very exciting, Prabhupāda, because all the, at the present time in the...
Prabhupāda: No, the thing is that actually, at the present moment, they are śūdras or less than śūdras. They are not human beings. The whole population of the world. It doesn't matter whether it is western or eastern. That is the position. So unless they are trained up, so the society's already in chaos, and it will go on still more in chaos, chaos. It will be hell. How people will live? And these rascals are being elected as government men, and they're only making budget how to tax. So one side, there is no rain; one side, there is no rice, especially in India; and one side, heavy tax. So they'll be all confused. They have already become confused. So in the confusion state it will be very difficult to make them Kṛṣṇa conscious. Therefore preliminary help should be given.
Prabhupāda: That, as it is suitable. It is not that because the kṣatriyas were killing by bows and arrows formerly, you have to continue that. That is another foolishness. If you have got... If you can kill easily by guns, take that gun. Just like formerly, parivrāja, Caitanya Mahāprabhu walked on the street. There was no aeroplane or... Or he did not use it. Does it mean that I shall have to follow that? I must take the jet engine. If it is available. If somebody criticizes, "Oh, Caitanya Mahāprabhu walked on leg and you are travelling in the jet plane?" Shall I have to take that ideal? These are rascaldom. When you have to work, you have to work with the greatest facility. That's all. Now I have got the facility of the talking in microphone, and... So why should I not take it? It will be recorded. It will be heard by so many others. I am speaking to four, five men. It can be heard by a big crowd of four hundred men.
Indian (3): But even then they don't listen.
Prabhupāda: No. Even Gandhi refused. Gandhi was approached by the... "Mahātmāji, you can stop this cow-killing." He replied, "How can I stop? It is their religion." Just see. (break) ...kṛṣi go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). This is the duty of the vaiśyas.
Indian (3): Killing of the cow, there is no...
Prabhupāda: Eh? (break) But who supplies the cow to us?
Indian (3): They are Hindus.
Prabhupāda: They are Hindus. (break) ...travelling with a Mohammedan. At that time there was no Second Class, Inter Class or Second Class I was. So that Mohammedan gentleman, when he called for that food supply, so he was asking very... "Is there any meat, cow's flesh?" "No, no, sir. No, sir." "That's all right." (end)
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: But that makes them sound like they are posts instead of individuals. I thought you once said that Arjuna, he always stays in the material universes. He's a person and he always travels with Kṛṣṇa, not that it's a post.
Prabhupāda: Everyone, all the associates of Kṛṣṇa, like Kṛṣṇa. (break)
Girirāja: Right now Kṛṣṇa is in so many different universes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Girirāja: And He is having the same pastimes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Girirāja: And in each universe there is an Arjuna.
Prabhupāda: Everything.
Prabhupāda: That is their local language.
Indian man (1): Even wordly, everything is in English in world also. But these peoples said, "Why the devotees don't...?"
Prabhupāda: Now, I have earned my practical experience. I am traveling all over the world. Everywhere, if not all, some sections they understand English. Everywhere.
Indian man (1): English is common language.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We cannot avoid English.
Pañcadraviḍa: Even we went on an engagement in Bengal to a movie theater. They were showing our slides. There they had one Russian movie. It was in English. Russian movie was in English.
Indian man (1): There are so many books Russians put out in English only. In India so many Russian books are there. They're publishing. All books are in English. They're using this language for their own purpose.
Prabhupāda: Any book of engineering, medical, technical, they are all in English. And for writing those books in Hindi means he will have to manufacture some words which nobody will understand.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. How are you?
Woman: Very well, thank you.
O'Grady: We are very well and very tired. We've been traveling a long, long way, a long road from Delhi.
Dhanañjaya: Desmond is a poet. He's written books also, published in London. And tomorrow he goes to Sicily to a convention of poets and writers, international conference for writers and poets. He's representing Ireland, he's coming from Limerick in Southern Ireland.
O'Grady: This is my friend, Michael Robert (indistinct) We are colleagues together since we teach literature, English literature. And this is another friend of ours who has just come from Greece. Everybody seems to be traveling within the last twenty-four hours. This is a young painter friend of mine, Bob Jackson, also from Ireland, whose first time in Italy, out of Ireland, and he's staying with me at the moment. He came back with me from Ireland just a few weeks ago.
Prabhupāda: We are also writing books, so many. You have seen our books?
O'Grady: I have seen some, yes, because some of the friends have come up and...
Prabhupāda: Some of the books, you can show him. Here is one book, Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: God has also some hobby.
Cardinal Pignedoli: Yes. What I used to do when I am traveling... I travel a lot. I used to make friends among young people, generally teenagers. And then I choose also—I try to do this—people who are unbelievers, who are in difficulties, who are men of the weak faith, and who don't love, at least, they say they don't love God. Because I think that we are few men who love God, friends to God... We are not many. And we have to go and to look for these people, and for these areas or environments, where these peoples live. And it is for this reason that I say always when I am good friends, you know... Priests, Catholic priests, well, go to an area because here is too many. They don't need you here, but go to, well, I would say Stockholm or Copenhagen where there are a few really also, Christians, I mean Catholic or Protestants. We are all brothers. But they go there because there are very few people who are dedicated to God. What do you believe about this? I mean your society, your movement, your spiritual movement, is dedicated for this kind of people and for these areas, or not? I ask. It's not...
Prabhupāda: For all.
Dhanañjaya: I remember, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were saying that all we require is some oxen, and the oxen can carry.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The oxen will solve the problem of transport. That bullock cart. Just like Kṛṣṇa, when He was transferred from Gokula to Nandagrāma, so they took all the bullock carts, and within a few hours they transported them, the whole thing, their luggage, family member, everything.
Bhagavān: How far can a bullock cart travel in one day?
Prabhupāda: At least ten miles, very easily, very easily. And maximum he can travel fifteen miles, twenty miles. But when we are localized, we don't require to go beyond ten miles, five miles. Because we have created a rubbish civilization, therefore one is required to go fifty miles for earning bread, hundred miles, hanging.
Dhanañjaya: Like in Los Angeles.
Prabhupāda: Why Los Angeles? Everywhere. In New York they are coming from hundred miles. From the other side of the island. First ferry steamer, then bus, then so on, so on. Three hours, four hours, they spend for transport.
Prabhupāda: No. They may go sometimes. Just like in India, they used to live locally, but at the same time they used to go to the pilgrimages by walking. It is not prohibited that one should not go out, but when one goes out, he goes out of pleasure, not as obligation. At the present moment, it has become an obligation, that one must go out of his home, of his village, of his country. That is defective. There was no need of so many transports. People remained locally. One has to go for livelihood hundred miles. This is defective.
Dhanañjaya: But people say they travel for education.
Prabhupāda: What education? Hippies? Your education has ended into hippies. Finish that education, nonsense education. Now, you have seen in Harmonist that the school children, they are having sex intercourse publicly, and they are running naked in America. Is it not?
Satsvarūpa: Yes It's a very big thing now, running naked.
Dhanañjaya: It's called "streaking."
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, the nonsense education, result is like that. Is that education? I first, when I saw in Honolulu University—all hippies, all the students, half naked and niggardly dressed. Why so many? They are all students. You see? It has become a fashion. This is the education. And one commissioner has... You have not seen our Harmonist prepared. Collapse.
Prabhupāda: The water has to be taken from the station?
Karandhara: Yes. Air, water, everything has to be taken.
Prabhupāda: Oh. And still they must go there. And we are proposing another planet, Vaikuṇṭha planet. They are not willing to go there.
Yogeśvara: They have found one use for all this space travel. They've decided to... They've experimented grounding lenses, grinding lenses in outer space since there's less dust. They can grind lenses that are more perfect.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Spectacle glass. Good advantage.
Bhagavān: There's another purpose. Instead of testing bombs on the earth, they are trying to test bombs on the moon.
Prabhupāda:
- piśācī pāile yena mati-cchanna haya
- māyā-grasta jīvera haya se bhāva udaya
Piśācī, ghostly haunted person, as he speaks so many nonsense, similarly, these persons who are captivated by māyā, they also speak all nonsense. Ghostly haunted persons. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (japa) What is that? You want to return?
Prabhupāda: So far I have studied... I am traveling all over the world. It is my calculation that we can produce food to give food ten times of the population if we properly utilize the whole planet according to this-produce food. Why because the milk is produced more, the cows should be slaughtered when there is a need of milk? It is so nice foodstuff. So on account of this false nationalism, "This is my land, this is my land, this is my land..." And why not take it as God's land and produce enough foodstuff. There will be no scarcity. There will be no skeleton. And distribute it. Where is that consciousness? There is so much land uncultivated all over the world, especially in America, in Australia, and in Africa, so much, huge land, no cultivation. They are keeping some cows and slaughtering them and exporting. What is this? Why don't you produce food?
Prabhupāda: This anxiety there must be when we are in a different atmosphere. Just like we heard there was a plane crash. So we are travelling by plane. So as soon as we get on the plane, that anxiety is there. So the anxiety is caused on my boarding airplane. So if I do not board airplane, then that anxiety is nowhere. So anyone who is existing in this material world, there must be anxieties. There must be anxieties. Exactly, the same example, that as soon as I... It may be very nice plane; it doesn't matter. But I know that it is unsafe. At any moment it can crash. Therefore there is anxieties. So similarly, we are, so long we are in the material platform, we cannot avoid anxieties.
Yogeśvara: Does that mean he must give up his family, and come and live here?
Prabhupāda: No, he can live with his family. It is to take up the cause, not to give up the family. We don't believe in giving up. We believe in engaging them properly. That is our philosophy. (French)
Pṛthu-putra: He asks if the hundreds devotee are all in Paris or they are a little bit everywhere...
Yogeśvara: Explain there's travelling parties.
Bhagavān: No, we're centered in Paris, and they travel all over France. (French)
Pṛthu-putra: He asks if we have a school in France.
Prabhupāda: We have got a school in Dallas, America, but we are trying to open a school here, also. (French)
Yogeśvara: This school is for all ages or just for children?
Prabhupāda: No, all ages. Children means they learn Sanskrit and English. And they are taught our books. You show our books, all books. These are... Other books. We have got eighty books like this. So if a student reads all these eighty books, he becomes Doctor of Philosophy. Ph.D. Beginning from A,B,C,D, up to Ph.D., all, everything is there.
Prabhupāda: So it was going on for some years, then collapsed. The movement was started by some priest or gentleman, and it was supported by President Eisenhower. It was patronized by him. So their principle was that, Christian principle, that "You do whatever you... Simply confess. Simply confess." So that man came to India also with his party, just like I travel. (break) ...substance, no movement will stay. It may go on for some time, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). Now, what about our movement? It will stay or it will also go like that?
Satsvarūpa: It will stay. We already have another generation coming up in Gurukula. The big danger, you say, is faction.
Prabhupāda: We shall go straight or right?
Haṁsadūta: Right. (break) He has taken safety place, and from safety place he is killing other poor animals. That is not shooting. The kṣatriyas, they will shoot tiger face to face. Previously Jaipur Mahārāja, he used to go to the forest, and so he would simply fight with the tiger with a sword.
Haṁsadūta: That doesn't happen anymore today.
Prabhupāda: See the tiger has got its nails and teeth and jaw. So there was no firearm. He will challenge the tiger with a..., and he will take a sword and kill him. And then the tiger would be brought in procession, giving all honor, military honor.
Prabhupāda: That is stated in the śāstra. Tīrthī-kurvanti tīrthāni svāntaḥ-sthena gadābhṛtā. Because a pure devotee carries Kṛṣṇa within his heart, therefore wherever he goes he makes a holy place. It is said in the śāstra. So not me, but every one of you, if you are pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa, then wherever you'll go, that is a holy place. Tīrthī-kurvanti tīrthāni svāntaḥ... To become sannyāsī means that, that he'll be pure devotee, and wherever he will go, he will purify. That is sannyāsa means. Mahad-vicalaṁ nṛnāṁ gṛhināṁ dīna-cetasām. Mahātmās, they'll travel so that the householders, who are cripple-minded and full of sinful activities, they'll go there and make them purified. This is the idea of sannyāsa. And in the Vedic civilization a brahmacārī and a sannyāsī has open door. There is no restriction. No "Beware of dog." (laughter) But now they are prohibited. I have got practical experience. After my sannyāsa, when I was touring India, so in Ahmedabad, or Baroda, I was entering one man's house. So he was standing on the balcony. (laughter)
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Professor: I read something like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Evam paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Without that paramparā the knowledge is not perfect. Give them prasāda. Hm?
Hṛdayānanda: We're going to bring you some prasādam? Spiritual food.
Professor: You are traveling all Latin America now?
Prabhupāda: Yes. I have traveled all over the world in eight years. Eight years? From 1967, eight years. So eight years I have traveled around fourteen times or more than that. No, twice in a year, almost.
Professor: (laughs)
Prabhupāda: No, this time, I started from India. Then I went to Hong Kong, from Hong Kong to Tokyo, from Tokyo to Honolulu, from Honolulu to Los Angeles, and from Los Angeles here, Mexico. And then where?
Hṛdayānanda: Caracas.
Prabhupāda: Caracas.
Prabhupāda: Oh, by seeing you.
Tripurāri: No, when they see the book they think, "Oh, the Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees. I saw them on the street." When they see the picture of Kṛṣṇa on the book, they think of the devotees chanting.
Devotee (1): Sometimes, Śrīla Prabhupāda, people travel from one airport to another, and they'll get a book in Chicago and then they'll come to Atlanta and we'll approach them to give them another book, and they've already gotten one book in Chicago. And they ask, "How many of there are you around the world?" Because everywhere they go, in every airport they are getting books. So they think that there must be millions. They think that there must be millions of Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees, because everywhere they go they're being approached to take a book.
Rūpānuga: I once asked a boy in Washington temple how many devotees he thought we had, and he said, "Oh, I cannot guess." And I said, "Make an educated guess." And he said, "Well, I've seen you here and I think maybe two million." (laughter) And I said, "Three thousand. Now just see the potency of Hare Kṛṣṇa. You're thinking we're two million, and we're simply a handful." He became a little convinced. So our books make us millions. People think we are millions because of the books.
Prabhupāda: Push on this. Then our movement is successful. All Americans should have at least one set of book. That is not very difficult for them, to purchase one set book. But it will be a good asset for them if they keep and see sometimes. Any line he reads, he will get transcendental knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Then you can do it. It makes you well known in the city. And you get the opportunity of criticizing the demons. (laughter) That is...
Satsvarūpa: This boy is Bhakta Doug, and he was a personal secretary of Maharishi for two years.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Satsvarūpa: He traveled all over with him. And one day... He was a very good student, and one day Maharishi said, "If you really want to know the highest truth, it's Kṛṣṇa consciousness." And then he left and he came and joined our tem... (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Maharishi said like that?
Doug: Yes, he did say that. It took me awhile to make the transition, but with Kṛṣṇa's mercy, I saw the way through to become Kṛṣṇa...
Devotee (5): Maharishi must have read one of your books, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: He has read my books?
Prabhupāda: No, that is natural defeat. You cannot avoid it. (laughter)
Female Reporter: I can't what?
Devotee: You cannot avoid it.
Female Reporter: Again, what do you do to have a good time in New York?
Prabhupāda: A sixteen-years-old boy can travel all over the world, and it is very difficult for a sixteen-years-old girl to travel all over the world. (pause)
Reporter: Thank you, Swamiji.
Prabhupāda: Thank you. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Devotees: Haribol! (break)
Reporter: Have you realized the highest truth yourself?
Prabhupāda: Certainly.
Reporter: You have?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Reporter: You are not suggesting that all of that is just cut away completely, but that people...?
Prabhupāda: No, you require... First thing, you require to eat. So Kṛṣṇa says that annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Produce sufficient grain, food grain, so that both the animal and the man, they will eat and become robust, stout, and strong. And they will be capable of working. So that is the first thing. But who is producing food grains? They are producing motor tires. When there is scarcity of food, will these motor tires help us? We shall eat motor tires? This is going on, so-called industrialization, producing unnecessary thing which is not required, and they are neglecting producing food grains. And I have estimated—I am traveling all over the world—that there are so much space even now that if you produce food grain, you can feed ten times of the population as it is. But they will not do that. They will create motorcars, and the whole street is congested. At any moment there can be accident, and if you have to go to consult a doctor, you have to go thirty miles off. Because the motorcar is there. I am diseased. I want to consult a doctor. So he must be in neighborhood. But I have to go thirty miles. And maybe, before going to the doctor, I may be finished, by accident. Anartha, it is called anartha. Anartha means unwanted things.
Prabhupāda: Not unnecessarily spending. That is the duty of the GBC.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Śrīla Prabhupāda, about this tax, about this money to be taken from each temple. Gurukula is one of the projects. For example, there may be another project...
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Atreya Ṛṣi: ...that Your Divine Grace and group, when you travel, there needs to be also... Every temple should contribute to that as well.
Prabhupāda: Well, if every temple cannot contribute, I shall manage from the BBT fund. That is not a problem.
Atreya Ṛṣi: You want...? I am using that merely as a...
Prabhupāda: And if you can pay, it is all right. If there is deficit, BBT will pay. You don't bother.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Bhagavān: The BBT trustees also did it. They took unsanctioned loan from the BBT.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, what about in a case like myself. I'm a sannyāsī, and I have a traveling saṅkīrtana party. So can I handle that money?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm a sannyāsī with a travelling preaching party. So I have no... Because I am personally seeing to the money, tbere's no debt on that party. Is that all right?
Prabhupāda: That you decide amongst the GBC. (laughter) Best thing is that don't keep money.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I have no money in my name.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, you don't... You spend the necessary expenditure, and balance money, you give whatever you like.
Pañcadraviḍa: I met one... I was traveling about three months ago in India. I met one Christian on the train. So we began to discuss the śāstra. So I mentioned some of the arguments in reference to the Bible, that Christ was speaking...
Prabhupāda: (aside:) No, no. Where that covering? Where is it?
Pañcadraviḍa: I said that Christ was speaking basically to an uneducated public, the fishermen, etc... So then this man, he stopped me. He said, "That's all right. But," he said, "You're..."
Prabhupāda: Who? Who? Who said?
Pañcadraviḍa: I was discussing with one Christian in India. So I attacked... Politely I attacked his scriptural reference, the Bible. I was saying that it was not meant that an educated community. So then he stopped me. He said, "That's all right. You can speak about fishermen. But," he said, "the prime exponent of Christianity was Paul. And Paul was previously Saul. He was not a fisherman. And he was traveling to a town on a particular... Damascus. And there he received direct revelation from God." And he said, "Then this one man, single-handedly, he converted most of the known world to Christianity."
Prabhupāda: That means he got direct revelation from God.
Pañcadraviḍa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Everything exists. For the time being, he may merge; then again he'll come to enjoy this material body. Āruhya kṛccheṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ. Patanty adhaḥ. Even they become merged into the existence of Brahman, again they come back because there is no āśraya. Just like these air, airplanes or the jets. They have invented very good machine, eighteen thousand miles per hour, going very high, but there is no place. They come down again. That is a fact. What is the use of going so high, eighteen thousand miles per hour, and travel and then again come back. Why do you take unnecessary trouble if you cannot stay there? You migrated from Europe and other countries to America. You got shelter. You stayed there. That colonization was successful. But if you are going to colonize in the moon and there is no place to stay, then why you are spending so much money unnecessarily? What is this foolishness? And they have stopped now. So in this way they are trying to merge into the Brahman effulgence, but where to stay? They can stay in the Brahman effulgence as minute particle of soul, but the soul wants ananda, then again—"It was better to live in the material world." They come back again.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: Now, Sitalamata, she is always traveling on a she-ass. Now she-ass's milk is very good for smallpox. If you take one spoon every day for three days in a year, one does not get an attack of smallpox. Very simple. Ideologically...
Prabhupāda: Her carrier is ass.
Guest: Ass, and it's a cure. And I've got a small idol of...
Prabhupāda: And the carrier of Ganeṣaji...
Guest: Is mouse.
Prabhupāda: Mouse. So, you have to eat that also, to get success?
Guest: No, no, not success but intelligence, I think.
Prabhupāda: No, Ganeṣaji is meant for giving you success.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Paramahaṁsa: They were very popular. They would travel around and do performances, and thousands of people would come. He had quite a big group of musicians, and he was the leader. He would lead the whole group. He would play the trumpet and sometimes dance.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Then, Ravi Shankar is no more popular?
Paramahaṁsa: Most people think he's too puffed up.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise how they say he's God? Then? You can stop. Those who are tired can take rest. What is the local time?
Amogha: 8:30
Prabhupāda: 8:30?
Paramahaṁsa: Usually people don't have a very clear idea of what spiritual life is. So when they see someone who is a good musician or a good artist or something like that, sometimes they automatically think, "Oh, he must be spiritual, because he is so good at this. No one else can do it. He must be some spiritual power." So therefore someone like Ravi Shankar, a lot of people either they become envious or they worship him as being an incarnation or something like that.
Prabhupāda: That is also stated, yad yad vibhūtimat sattvaṁ.
Prabhupāda: So then where is your desire, fulfill it. What you are doing here?
Indian boy: Actually, I've got three friends from work in Sydney, and we started traveling around the country, and we ended up in Perth with no money. So we are here from last four months trying to get a job and save some money and go back to Sydney.
Prabhupāda: So not getting job?
Indian boy: Jobs are very scarce in Perth. We've been trying very hard, but so far, it's no go.
Prabhupāda: So here we have no arrangement. Huh?
Śrutakīrti: No. Here there's no arrangement. In Sydney or Melbourne there would be some facility.
Prabhupāda: New Delhi you were born? How long you have come?
Indian boy: I was just nine months old when we left Delhi.
Prabhupāda: So Australia, they are inviting people to come here for working, but how is that? They do not get job?
Prabhupāda: So when it touches the ground, it may become impure. It doesn't water (matter). But the water is pure. Water is coming. You cannot take water from the sea and moisten the ground with... That is not possible. But if pure water comes down from the rain, it is utilized.
Justin Murphy: But a lot of the water that is in our dams and the water that we use for irrigation south of here, which is the basis for the dairy produce of Perth, is becoming slowly, because of its contact with the ground and its travel through the soil and its seepage out into streams and into underground areas, that water is slowly becoming in many respects almost as salty as the sea.
Prabhupāda: But first of all, you want water. If the water is reserved on the top of the hill, then it gradually comes down. That is nature's, God's, arrangement: Let river fall down, and you can use that water. That is the nature's arrangement. Just like you keep your water on the tank, and by pipe you get down. But there is nature's arrangement. The water is stocked on the top of the hill, and throughout the whole year the pipe is the river. That water must be there. That is the first problem. Therefore here it is said, parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ. You must have sufficient water. Water is already there. But it has to be purified, kept on the top of the hill, water tank, and it will come down in rivers. Then you take and utilize. And when the water falls down and there is sufficient water, the ground becomes cleansed so it is no more polluted.
Prabhupāda: India, in Calcutta, my family is there in Calcutta.
Journalist: You live in New York?
Prabhupāda: No, no, I travel all over the world. My, in America headquarter, Los Angeles. And European headquarter, London.
Journalist: Is Kṛṣṇa consciousness connected with any other religion? Does it derive from Hinduism or Buddhism?
Prabhupāda: Yes, you can call it Hinduism, but actually it does not belong to any "ism." It is a science of understanding God. But it appears like Hindu religion. In that sense Buddha religion is also Hindu religion, because Lord Buddha was a Hindu and he started Buddha religion.
Journalist: Do you think modern man must mend his ways or he will... he must get better and know God or he will destroy himself?
Prabhupāda: Yes, he is destroying already. The society is not in stable stage. Just like in America, they are also in trouble now. They are asking money from the federal government. They cannot make solution. So as soon as the monetary source will decline, this civilization will be finished.
Gurukṛpa: Here. Prabhupāda: Any sea anywhere. When I was traveling by ship, I used to see ten feet down crystal clear. It is very clear water. Gurukṛpa: But you cannot drink it. Prabhupāda: That is God's supremacy. "If I don't give you water to drink, you cannot drink." And still, they are independent. Just see the fun. Even water, three-fourths of water, you cannot use a drop of water for drinking unless God gives you. He creates the cloud and give you. That is not your arrangement. You cannot do. Still they are independent. Jale kali-vāsa, nāme tila phyāsa. Sometimes sailors,(?) for being thirsty, they died in water. How they declare independence from Him? "There is no God. There is no authority. We are independent. We can do whatever we like." Childish. Gurukṛpa: I think it's because they are meat-eaters, all their intelligence is completely gone. Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Vina pasughnat: (SB 10.1.4) Unless one is meat-eater, nobody can be disinterested in God's affairs. Only the meat-eaters, vinā paśughnāt, killers of animal. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt (SB 10.1.4). This glorification of God is especially done by persons who are completely free from material attachment. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagiyamanad bhavauśādhi (SB 10.1.4). And it is the medicine of getting free from this material bondage. Bhavauśādhi. And it is also very pleasing.
Prabhupāda: Where? You have got that copy?
Rāmeśvara: We have copy. I can bring it in today.
Satsvarūpa: That one review does more work than we could do by traveling all over the country for a year. Because the librarians, when we go to them, they say, "Well, we usually order our books from this Choice magazine." But now we're in it. So...
Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa is helping us. Take advantage of it. (break) Vyāsadeva compiled Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam for this purpose. Anartha upasamam sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaja. These lokasya ajānataḥ, people are suffering on account of ignorance, so to give them proper knowledge, he made this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. (break) Who can become more learned than Vyāsadeva? Therefore he is known as vidvān, the most, supreme learned. He made this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam to help these rascals who are spoiling their life only in sense gratification. (break) Life is meant for tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed (SB 5.5.1). They do not know that our existentional condition is impure. The question does not arise that "I do not wish to die. Why there is death?" They are so dull-headed, this question does not... They are trying to solve so many question, but this question does not arise in their mind, that "I don't wish to die.
Prabhupāda: Oh. How far it is from our palace?
Jayatīrtha: About half an hour, I think. It is between several big towns. And it's very centrally located for saṅkīrtana all over France.
Prabhupāda: Oh, we can go here and there.
Jayatīrtha: Yeah. They're going to use that as the saṅkīrtana base for our traveling saṅkīrtana all over France.
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Jayatīrtha: Parties will go out for a few weeks and then come back. So it's very good.
Prabhupāda: What is the climate now? It is cold?
Jayatīrtha: It's nice during the day and a little cold at night.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Prabhupāda: So what is decided?
Brahmānanda: That he will travel with Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: That will be all right?
Nitāi: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Then you can do that. They are composing hundred pages?
Rāmeśvara: Daily?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rādhā-vallabha: Not a hundred pages. A hundred verses, each person. Each composer, one hundred verses approximately.
Prabhupāda: Oh. And one verse means one page average? No.
Rādhā-vallabha: Two verses per page.
Prabhupāda: "Please close your eyes. (everyone laughs) Let us do something." (break)
Jayatīrtha: (back in car) ...register as a travel agent so that we can get discount on all of our tickets, airplane tickets, and then also we can work on arranging that, that these tours would stop there.
Prabhupāda: The Cox and Kings, they inquired from me, "Whether you can take charge?" Guru dāsa can take charge of this. He is well acquainted with the several places. And he is loitering here and there doing as he likes. (break)
Harikeśa: ...had the plan to perhaps get one bus and leave it at our place and then do tours on our own.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...airport by this way? No, the other way.
Prabhupāda: It is Kṛṣṇa's book, we are all servants, engaged. (break) (laughing) Here your parents accusing me, and in India the caste brāhmaṇas accusing me. My standing... I do not know what is my standing. Your parents are accusing me, "This rascal, converting our sons to become mendicant without any material enjoyment." And there, "This rascal is giving sacred thread to the mlecchas and yavanas." (Still laughing)
Viṣṇujana: Is that why you keep traveling, Prabhupāda, so they won't catch you?
Prabhupāda: Nārada Muni was accused by Prajāpati Dakṣa that "You are traveling in the dress of a sādhu, but you are the most sinful man. You have turned my sons in the renounced order of life to become beggar, without any advancement, without any enjoyment." So that accusation is always there, beginning from Nārada Muni down to us. Some parents came to demonstrate?
Brahmānanda: In Los Angeles, yes. I understand they've demonstrated before, someone was saying? They had placards, and they were marching.
Bhāvānanda: In Laguna Beach they also.
Prabhupāda: Therefore Dr. Judah has said...
Brahmānanda: He has dedicated his book, "To the parents and to the devotees."
Prabhupāda: He has tried to pacify the parents.
Prabhupāda: Here also they say. Just like in Bombay, the Bandra(?).
Harikeśa: Ah, terrible.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What's Viṣṇujana doing? (break) ...Deity, I've never seen it. He gets up early in the morning, wakes Him up, cooks for Him, then we offer ārati, then bathing and dressing the Deity, sings for Him all day. He's so devoted to Rādhā-Dāmodara.
Prabhupāda: Svarūpa-siddhi, arcana-siddhi. By simply worshiping Deity one can become perfect. Arcana-siddhi.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a great advantage of our bus. Now we just traveled for two days in a row from San Francisco, but we did not miss one ārati, we had six āratis, full prasādam. We took bath on the bus in our shower room. We had regular classes, kīrtana all day. It was undisturbed.
Prabhupāda: So why not one week with them? I am prepared. (end)
Prabhupāda: ...Angeles, I have seen while going to the beach, one man has made a boat of concrete cement. Did you see? Nobody marked?
Viṣṇujana: In California there are such boats, concrete boats.
Prabhupāda: They are used?
Viṣṇujana: Oh yes. They are used for taking cargo up and down the coast. They don't travel in the ocean, but they travel on the coast. They used them during the Second World War all over the United States.
Prabhupāda: Such boat does not drown?
Viṣṇujana: They keep it up by huge air tanks. By holding so much air they keep the cement up. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...ficial means. Otherwise it will drown.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sink, yeah. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...officially closed. (break) ...water increases? I don't think. It does not.
Prabhupāda: How they can be? They are not trained up. They are not trained up from the very beginning. For being trained up, there is another four divisions, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. These are the training divisions. So for the first-class, second-class, third-class, all the students, they are trained up as brahmacārī, student life. Brahmacārī means celibacy, live under the direction of the teacher and accept all kinds of hardship under the teacher's or spiritual master direction. Children, they can easily take it. If a child, a small child, I ask him, "My dear child, you take my shoes and keep it there," he will immediately agree. He has no sense, "Oh, he is asking me to take his shoes." He will immediately agree. Even he is very rich man's son. So this life is advised that a student live just like a menial servant of the teacher or the spiritual master. And they agree. We have got good instances. And he is coming from the first-class family, brāhmaṇa family or kṣatriya family or vaiśya family, first, second, third. So even śūdra family, he can learn also. So brahmacārī. Then he is, if he can remain without wife or without opposite sex, then he continues to remain as brahmacārī. He is encouraged. This process encourages to remain brahmacārī, that "Don't take to sex life, it is entailed with so many difficulties. Practice to remain a brahmacārī. You'll save so much trouble." But if he is unable—the teacher sees-Then he is allowed to marry, marriage. If he is trained up brahmacārī, when he marries, he lives with wife under rules and regulation, not like cats and dogs. And then, because he had previous training, at a certain age he gives up family life. That is called vānaprastha. Pañcaśordhvam vānam vrajet. The vānaprastha life is accepted, generally, after fiftieth year, not earlier. Then the husband and wife travels all over, I mean to say, spiritual sanctified places. In India there are so many places.
Prabhupāda: So everything is going right?
Ghanaśyāma: Oh, yes, cultivating very nice. The president there, he is taking out the saṅkīrtana party himself, and the whole temple has become very enthused by this. Bury Place.
Prabhupāda: How many devotees are there?
Ghanaśyāma: Bury Place, there's about... There are three traveling saṅkīrtana parties. There are about maybe thirty devotees there.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā. And Bhaktivedanta Manor?
Ghanaśyāma: I think about maybe thirty-five. Some of the boys go to Scotland frequently. So they sort of share the devotees with the three temples.
Prabhupāda: Edinburgh. So you have been in Edinburgh University?
Ghanaśyāma: No. I don't know. Prabhupāda, they have a program there with the Indians. The Indians are supporting the temple there now.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Ghanaśyāma: The Indians, they're paying for the devotees' prasādam and supporting the temple.
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. Anna-dāna.
Prabhupāda: The same thing. I have got my temple there. I stay there, and I teach people according to my philosophy.
Woman reporter: Is Philadelphia your last stop in...
Prabhupāda: No, no, I travel all over United States. Then I will go to Europe. Then I will go to Africa. I have got my touring program for 4 months. (break)
Woman reporter: There's one more question I'm going to ask. Is that tea? Is that tea that you're drinking?
Prabhupāda: No, we don't drink tea. We don't drink tea, don't drink liquor. We don't smoke. This is our process, no illicit sex, no meat eating, no intoxication, no gambling. Unless one is married, there is no sex. And unless one is going to beget child, there is no sex. Not for pleasure. This is our regulative principle.
Woman reporter: You have different schools for men and women, is that correct?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Man is regulated to become a first-class man, and woman is regulated to become very chaste and faithful wife.
Prabhupāda: If the spiritual master is treated as God, so he must show, practically show, that he is treating as God. So God travels by golden car. So if the spiritual master is offered ordinary motor car, so still it is not sufficient, because he has to be treated like God. What is this motor car for God? (laughter) They are still deficient. If God comes to your home, will you bring Him in ordinary motor car or you would arrange for a golden car? If you treat him as God? So your point is that they offer me nice motor car, but I say that is not sufficient. That is still lacking to treat him as God. Be practical.
Woman: Yesterday I met a devotee from New York who said that there were many people present at the festival from other planets and that you could see them. Is that true?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Everyone can see. If you have eyes, you can see also. But if you have no eyes, therefore you are envious because they have offered a nice motor car. So you have to make your eyes to see. A blind man cannot see. The eyes are to be treated how to see.
Prabhupāda: Cobbler is less than śūdra. Yes. Cobbler means when the cows die, the cobbler may take it. If he wants, he can eat the flesh, and he can utilize the bone, hoofs. He can prepare... He gets the skin without any price. So he can make shoes and he'll make some profit. And because he is cobbler, he can be allowed to eat meat, fifth-class... Not that "Professor such-and-such," and eating meat. This is the degradation of society. He is doing the work of a brāhmaṇa—teacher means brāhmaṇa—and eating meat-Oh, horrible! Śyāmasundara? So make, organize. I can give you the idea, but I'll not live very long. If you can carry out, you can change the whole... Especially if you can change America, then whole world will change. Then the whole world... And it is the duty because they are kept in darkness and ignorance, then the human life is being spoiled. These rascals, because they do not know how to live... Andhā yathāndhair... They are blind, and they are leading... Others are blind, and they are leading and they, all of them, going to ditch. So it is the duty. There is... Caitanya has explained, para-upakāra. Save them. If it is not possible to save everyone, as many as possible... This is human life. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to save others who are in the darkness. It is not a profession: "Now, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is my profession. I'm getting very easily food and shelter." Just like the Indians, they are doing, a profession, say another means of livelihood. Not like that. It is for para-upakāra, actually benefiting the others. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then Kṛṣṇa will be very much pleased: "Oh, he is trying." 'Cause Kṛṣṇa personally comes for doing this benefit to the people, and if you do, then how much Kṛṣṇa will be pleased. Then? Just like I am traveling in my centers, and if I see that my students, my men are doing very nice, everything is going nice, how much pleased I will be, that I'll save my labors and now write books for the rest of my time. Similarly, if Kṛṣṇa sees that you are, on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, you are trying to save these rascals, then He'll be very (indistinct) with you. They are rascals.
Prabhupāda: Where?
Indian man (1): Avenue Road. It is very busy street. There are so many cars coming in the morning, I think, twenty thousand a day.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And they will see the signboard. (break)
Indian man (2): ...that India, I traveled after several years. I last went in 1966. It was not so demonic. But this time I found the younger generation of India is very, very demonic and they don't believe God at all.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian Man (2): What is the reason of that?
Prabhupāda: They have been taught by your rascal leaders, Jawaharlal Nehru and company. These rascals taught them.
Indian Man (2): Jawaharlal Nehru was representing the India for so many years.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And therefore he has ruined.
Prabhupāda: If we go village to village. The village people are still pure, at least not so polluted as the town people, or especially the so-called educated. (break) ...hari-kīrtana koro... (Bengali) We held this hari-kīrtana in Delhi, Calcutta, Bombay. Oh, at least fifteen to thirty thousand people were daily... Even from the office with coats and pants, they are dancing. And they asked me, "Swamiji, continue it." (break)
Indian Man (2): I traveled all over India so many years, place to place, but I found the Gujarati is one of the best where the people have there some natural-born Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's fact. Everywhere—Gujaratis, Marwaris, Punjabis—more or less, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there. (break)
Indian Man (2): I ask you one question. What is the future of India regarding the Kṛṣṇa consciousness? The people are so much demonic. It every time bothers me, day and night, that what will happen? The people don't have respect for the olders. They just harass. I was with my wife too, and I found the... We talk about the Kṛṣṇa, and they just laugh. They say, "There is nothing like that." They made so much fun, the young generation, that "You are a modern boy, and you are believing in that?" Just I found. I can't understand that how we can change over to the Indian future about Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: If we preach, it will be all right. That is going on perpetually, darkness and light. If you bring light, darkness will go out, will be driven away.
Prabhupāda: It is not duty? This is the main duty. This is the main duty. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām (BG 18.66). We have taken responsibility for Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are doing. Why we are traveling all over the world thrice in a year? We have taken the responsibility. Otherwise, who is, an old man, he'll take such responsibility? That is a greater responsibility. When you become a big officer of the government, it means you overburdened with responsibility, not this flickering resp... Here the material respons... means it has no use. You are simply wasting time. And here is real responsibility and real life. That I explained to that lady, that "Even if you take respons... what can you do? You cannot do anything." The example I gave, that "You have taken responsibility for your son's disease. He is suffering. You have brought good physician, you have brought good medicine, everything, but what can you do? In spite of your all responsibility, your son dies. Then where is the value of your responsibility?" Do you think simply by bringing a nice physician and nice medicine you can save your son? Then where is your responsibility? Actually you cannot do anything, so what is the use of saying that "I am responsible"? You cannot do anything. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). If one blind man says, "I'll take responsibility.
Prabhupāda: I have seen about some thirty years ago, one man was sitting... I was traveling in the railway apartment, and all of a sudden he jumped through the window.
Devotees: Whew!
Prabhupāda: All of a sudden. He was sitting nicely. What he was thinking I do not know. But he took the opportunity of open window and jumped. I have seen.
Indian man (1): A kind of insanity overpowered him.
Prabhupāda: Insanity... everyone is overpowered by insanity, anyone in this material world and who is trying to be happy. Everyone is in insanity. They are trying to different way. They do not know the only solution is, as Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇa... (BG 18.66). That they do not, neither they'll accept.
Prabhupāda: ...kovida. Kovida means very intelligent person, not rascals, fools. Kovida, very expert. Kovida. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta: "He should endeavor for that thing." What is that "that thing"? Na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adaḥ: "Which is never happened to be achieved, although in different forms of life I have traveled in different planets, transmigration, but I could not get that." So in this human form of life, tasyaiva hetoḥ, which I did not get in so many lives... That means Kṛṣṇa. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adaḥ (SB 1.5.18). Uparyadaḥ. Upari means higher planetary system; adaḥ, down planetary system. "Then? Simply I shall work for that purpose? Then what about my belly?" People are always... Whole world is embarrassed how to fulfill the belly. Huh? That economic question, this question, that question, philanthropism, this "ism," that "ism." The whole thing is centered round this belly. So one may question, "Then all things should be stopped?" Yes, all things will be stopped. Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). "Then the problem... How shall I eat? How shall I become happy?" So śāstra says, tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukhaṁ kalenā sarvatra gabhīra-raṁhasā. You are trying for getting happiness, satisfaction, but you do not try for distress. So why the distress comes?
Indian man: Automatically.
Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. That is foolishness. It is not enjoyable. That is... If a criminal says, "The prisonhouse is very enjoyable," it is like that.
Cyavana: But all the travel brochures and the advertisements, they say it's nice here. All the advertising and travel brochures, they say it is nice.
Prabhupāda: Let him say, but prisonhouse, is it nice? That is foolishness.
Cyavana: But everyone else says it's nice.
Prabhupāda: Everyone? I don't say.
Cyavana: You are the only one who says it is not nice.
Prabhupāda: I am the only intelligent person. (laughter) That's a fact. Mūḍho nābhijānāti.
Prabhupāda: So these women, what they are carrying on the head?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I don't know. What do they carry, Gokulendra prabhu?
Gokulendra: They carry all sorts of things, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Sometimes they carry their supplies that they...
Prabhupāda: They are local women or...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. But they don't allow the Africans to live in the cities. They have to travel long distances, unless they are servants at some house. For the Africans to live in the cities, they have passes. They have to have a pass.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā. Black men. The Indians, they cannot? They can?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, Indians don't need pass. The Indians, however, they were only allowed to live where they were born. They aren't allowed to move around. But this year they finished that law. Now the Indians can live anywhere in South Africa in Indian areas. They can move around to different cities. Before this year they weren't allowed to do it.
Prabhupāda: So post... (break) ...service is not good?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, it is fairly good. But the Africans, they are so many they have to queue up. I don't think, in America, that the American negroes would be able to queue up and wait as patiently as these people. I think they have a little...
Prabhupāda: They have been trained up.
Prabhupāda: You have to be expert. Not by this machine.
Indian man: No. Astral traveling.
Prabhupāda: You have to prepare yourself.
Indian man: Prepare yourself.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like we had to prepare, to come to your country, visa and other things, not that all of a sudden I can come. Similarly, you have to prepare yourself to go to other planets. And because they are going whimsically, they are not successful. They have to come back, "Get down. Go back."
Indian man: Well, Swamijī, if you want, you can answer this or not. Have you been to other planets?
Prabhupāda: I am on all planets. When I come to other country I see the same tree, the same road and the same sand. So what is the difference? I don't find any difference between India and this South Africa because the same trees are there, same grass is there, the same road is there, the same... So similarly, in every planet, without going we can understand, if we are sane men. We come here not to see how is South Africa. We have come here to preach Kṛṣṇa conscious.... That is our business. We don't come as a tourist to see how South Africa is. What South Africa? The same building, same road, same—everything same. What to see here? Especially, they are also eating, sleeping and struggling. That's all.
Prabhupāda: I did not say anything about Long Island.
Vipramukhya: You'd like many temples, one in every village.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said. (break)
Vipramukhya: ...bring Kṛṣṇa consciousness to the people, they don't have to travel long distances to the temples.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...fast, these birds. Airplane cannot do that.
Lokanātha: How do they decide the direction and they turn all together?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Lokanātha: How they turn all together and how do they communicate each other that "Yes, let's move out away"?
Prabhupāda: Yes, they have got intelligence. You are thinking that they have no intelligence. They have got complete intelligence.
Prabhupāda: (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) ...set is there, but beyond that mental stage there is intellect. Beyond intellect there is soul.
Dr. Patel: To go beyond intellect for a body conscious ego, the ego must dissolve and find itself to be a jīva, and then he travels further up to find his own identity and his own relation with God. Before, I mean, mind is one, you cannot go beyond it. That is what my conjecture. I may be wrong for all that.
Prabhupāda: No, no. One has to go beyond the mind, but one, those who are stuck up with the mind, they are useless. So the Western philosophers, they are stuck up with the mind. That is the defect. (break) ...bhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano-rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ. Manorathena, mental concoction, asataḥ. Western philosophers, they take the mind as the soul. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Hm?
Dr. Patel: Yes. And the Communists think even the matter is more important than the mind. What do you call? Dialectical materialism, that the matter produces consciousness. It is not the consciousness which, I mean, collects matter around it. That is their philosophy. That is this dialectical materialism. They are absolutely wrong. They are even further down than the Western philosophers, mental philosophers.
Prabhupāda: (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...is already mentioned in Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: Underground.
Dr. Patel: There is just next, I mean, Alaska and Bering, opposite each other. They could have gone by that place to American continent in past.
Devotee: That's what the scientists say. They are saying that they migrated by the northern way.
Dr. Patel: Yes. That is the only way. Otherwise seas are very big waves. The small crafts could not travel on that. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...proposition is not migrating. That is due to increase of population. The civilization means the culture. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Dr. Patel: (break) ...really spread toward the east in Indonesia and Indochina, all those places, which were again overtaken by Islam later on.
Prabhupāda: Islam is also...
Dr. Patel: History, it has spread. Even Bali Islands today are practicing Hinduism.
Brahmānanda: Aryan means change in consciousness to God consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: How do you know that he's eating too much?
Akṣayānanda Swami: I was staying at one about a year ago. When I was travelling I stayed a few days at some of the places. At night they would have a whole meal...
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Akṣayānanda Swami: ...big, big meal. They would be sitting eating for one hour. Then in the morning they were all tired and very dull.
Prabhupāda: Huh huh. (laughing)
Akṣayānanda Swami: Then again at lunch time and after that again sleep. They couldn't do anything else, there was no time for preaching or for distributing books or... But yet they were supposed to be doing 64 rounds. That was in Vishakapatnam.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
| Page Title: | Travel (Conv. 1967 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur |
| Created: | 09 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=123, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 123 |