By death, everything is taken away by Kṛṣṇa. So the modern civilization, they do not believe in the next birth. That is the basic mistake of the present civilization, that we get information that tathā dehāntaraṁ prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati. Dehāntaram. Just like we are transmigrating, even in this span of life, from childhood to boyhood, from boyhood to youthhood, from youthhood to old age body. Therefore it is natural to conclude that after this old body's finished, then we get another body, transmigration of the soul. But there is no education, no enlightenment about this transmigration of the soul. But we can, if we think, ponder very deeply on this matter, how transmigration of the soul is taking place, and it is authorized, authorized statement of Bhagavad-gītā: tathā dehāntaraṁ prāptir.
Transmigration of the soul (Lectures, other)
Expressions researched:
"transmigration of one's soul"
|"transmigration of soul"
|"transmigration of souls"
|"transmigration of the self, soul"
|"transmigration of the soul"
|"transmigration of the spirit soul"
Lectures
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
In this way, everyone is enjoying a particular type of rasa, material rasa... and nature is offering him a particular type of body. Deha-yogena dehinam. We can enjoy a particular type of rasa... Just like the hogs. They are relishing the rasa of stool very nicely. You give them nice food, they'll not take. They'll prefer to taste the stool. Why? Because he has been offered a particular type of body. And this particular type of body has been offered to him, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya... He has associated with jaghanya, tamo-guṇa, abominable tamo-guṇa. Therefore he has developed a body of a hog, and tasting the juice of stool. This is the way of transmigration of the soul. Actually, it is the living spirit soul, either hog or dog or a brāhmaṇa or a caṇḍāla or a cow. This is simply a covering, or... Just like we cover ourself in dream. That is subtle covering. Similarly, this is also covering.
They'll prefer to taste the stool. Why? Because he has been offered a particular type of body. And this particular type of body has been offered to him, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya... He has associated with jaghanya, tamo-guṇa, abominable tamo-guṇa. Therefore he has developed a body of a hog, and tasting the juice of stool. This is the way of transmigration of the soul. Actually, it is the living spirit soul, either hog or dog or a brāhmaṇa or a caṇḍāla or a cow. This is simply a covering, or... Just like we cover ourself in dream. That is subtle covering. Similarly, this is also covering. In the Vedas it is said, asaṅgo hy ayaṁ puruṣaḥ. Actually, the living entity, the spirit soul, is neither hog, neither dog, nor brāhmaṇa, nor this, nor that. It is simply a covering. But this covering is developed by our association with the particular type of modes of nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu.
...no birth and death because you are Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel. But we disappear. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntaram-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). One who is sober, he knows that "This man, he's not dead." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). "He's not dead. He has simply passed from this body to another body." Just like a mother, when the child from baby's body comes to a boy's body, the mother does not cry, "Oh, where is my son, that baby?" She knows that baby has come to this body. Similarly, a person who is in the knowledge of the transmigration of the soul, he knows that "My father, my brother, he's not dead. He has simply changed his body." Dhīras tatra na muhyati. One has to become dhīra, sober, to understand the things as they are. Tathā dehāntaraṁ-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati.
Woman (2): ...may ask the question... You spoke about transmigration of souls, and reincarnation.
Prabhupāda: Stand up.
Woman (2): ...transmigration of souls, or reincarnation as karma.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Woman (2): ...if you believe in it, could you answer me by telling me how someone who has entered a new body and a new life doesn't remember anything of the past? If, for example, I suffer today because of what I did in the past, any form of retribution or suffering should be for me a total consciousness.
As we give up old dress, garment, similarly, when this body becomes useless, we give up this body and accept another new body. Navāni ghṛṇāti.
This is the transmigration of the soul. The soul is transmigrating form one body to another. That is a fact. But the gross, gross materialists, they cannot see the subtle body. They simply see the gross body. Therefore they say, "When this body is finished, this gross body's finished, everything is finished." No, that is not. Within the gross body, there is subtle body, made of mind, intelligence and ego. So that is... Just like in every day we have got experience. The gross body is lying on the bed, but the subtle body goes out of the bed, out of the room, goes on the top of a hill or somewhere. It works. That is our practical experience. Similarly, when this gross body is finished, no more usable, the subtle body carries the soul to another womb of the mother. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantor deha upapattaye (SB 3.31.1).
Through the semina of the father, the living entity is injected within the womb of the mother, and the two secretions becomes emulsified, and it becomes just like a small pea, and within that pea the soul is there, and it develops. This is the process of transmigration of the soul from one body to another.
So soul has got form. It is not formless. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa has got also form. But that form is different from this form. When in the śāstras it is said, nirākāra, nirākāra means nirākṛta ākāra, "This ākāra, this form, is being nullified." Nirākāra does not mean there is no ākāra. This body. When it is said, nirākāra, that means the soul, the Supersoul or the soul, has no this ākāra, as we see. Just like we are seeing some dog or some cat or some hog, some tree, some plants, so many, eight million four hundred thousands of forms, but this is not the form. Nirākāreti. Not this form.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
Suppose you become very big businessman and you have got nice, very big balance and so on, so on, but by your activities you remain like a dog mentality is, then you are going to get the body of a dog. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran loke tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). The test is at the time of death. At the time of death, if my mentality is different, so according to that mentality I shall get the body. This is called transmigration of the soul. There is no teaching of this science throughout the whole world, and we are trying to educate people. Of course, it is very difficult to understand, but this is the science, that there is transmigration of the soul. And if we do not take care of this, that "What I am going to become next life?" if you simply waste your time simply on the matter of eating, sleeping, mating and defense, then we are wasting our time. This is the subject matter of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Not finished—at least stopped for the time. Spiritual quality cannot be finished because it is spiritual. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The spiritual quality cannot be finished. It goes on. And on account of avidyā, ignorance, it goes through another body, another body, transmigration of the soul. And unless he is again revived to his original consciousness, he has to go through that. He has to struggle for existence. He's trying to get his original position like Kṛṣṇa's brilliant position, like the fire.
So this is called struggle for existence. Avidyā-karma-samjñānyā. They are trying to be happy. You'll find in the New York City, they are simply struggling. What is the aim? The aim is how to become happy. Somebody is drinking, somebody is gambling, somebody is going to the restaurant, somebody is going to the Times Square, and somebody is going here, there. Their real aim is how to become happy. But because in avidyā, ignorant, they are unable to become happy. That is the position.
Oh." The Cāṇakya, the Cārvāka Muni replied, bhasmī-bhūtasya dehasya kutaḥ punar-āgamano bhavet: "Well, when your body will be burnt into ashes, who is coming here and who is going to be responsible? Don't think all these." So this is atheistic theory. They don't believe that there is transmigration of the soul. He has to take another body and he has to take body according to his work, and there are 8,400,000's of different kinds of bodies, and human body is the most benefactory. So they do not know all these things. So this is called āvaraṇātmikā, covering influence.
So covering influence and throwing influence. Out of these two influences, one can come out if he agrees to surrender unto the Supreme Lord. Otherwise there is no other way. He'll be, he'll be always covered or be thrown again.
Festival Lectures
This is whole Vedic literature. Punar janma jayayaḥ. How to conquer over next birth, next material birth, they do not know. Foolish persons they have forgotten Vedic culture, what is the Vedic culture. Vedic culture is to conquer over the next birth, that's all. But they do not believe in the next birth. Ninety-nine percent people, they have gone so down from the Vedic culture. The Bhagavad-gītā also the same philosophy is there. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). This is Vedic culture. Vedic culture means by the evolutionary process we come to this human form of life. Here is the chance of stopping transmigration of the soul from one body to another. Tathā dehāntara prāptir, and you do not know what kind of body I am going to get next. This body may be prime minister and next body may be dog by the laws of nature.
Everyone, you can perceive that you were a child, you were a baby, you were a boy. Now you are young man or old man. So you are there. So as you are passing through different types of bodies, similarly, when you give up this body you accept another body. What is the difficulty? Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). There is no question of becoming astonished, how transmigration of the self, soul, takes place. The vivid example is there. Simply you require little intelligence. That intelligence is developed through the instruction of ācārya. Therefore, Vedic injunction is not to acquire knowledge by speculation. That is useless. Athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvayaṁ jānāti tattvaṁ prasāda-leśānugṛhīta eva hi, na cānya eko 'pi ciraṁ vicinvan (SB 10.14.29). Ciraṁ vicinvan. Ciram means for thousands of years you can speculate; you cannot understand what is God. That is not possible. But if you receive knowledge from the devotee, he can deliver you. Therefore Vedic injunction is that tad-vijñāna... (break) ...in order to understand tad-vijñāna.
The formation takes place simply in the material. That is their opinion. Therefore they say, call, saguṇa. Saguṇa-upāsanā.
Just try to understand this. Saguṇa-upāsanā means when Brahman takes a form He takes a form from this material help. Just like we take a form, we spiritual entities. We also take a form, transmigration of the soul according to karma. I create a certain type of mentality, and that continues throughout my life. And at the time of death, because I have got a certain type of mentality, man-mentality or God-mentality or dog-mentality or fly-mentality, any kind of... There are so many. So I have to take a certain type of body. So that body I have to take not by my whim. Daivena. Daiva-netreṇa: by the decision of higher authorities. Daiva, generally, it means the Supreme Personality of Godhead and His agents. He has got many. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). So the material agent is Durgā. So I create a mentality by my association with this material world.
General Lectures
Similarly, we are present here in this world and in any other world with different kinds of bodies. According to Vedic literature there are 8,400,000's of different kinds of bodies. So He gave very nice example. If we study this example with little intelligence, we can understand this doctrine of transmigration of the soul very quickly.
Lord Kṛṣṇa said,
- dehino 'smin yathā dehe
- kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
- tathā dehāntara-prāptir
- dhīras tatra na muhyati
- (BG 2.13)
This is Sanskrit language. I'll explain it in English. He said that within this body there is soul, and the body is changing every moment, but the soul is there. He is giving example, just as a soul comes from the womb of his mother with a small body, and that small body changes—it becomes the body of a boy, it becomes the body of a youth, then it becomes the body of an old man, then it vanquishes.
In this way this changing, body changing, is going on. And the final change is called death. Death means... Just like the too much old garments cannot be used, similarly, this body is the garment of the soul. When it is..., no longer can be used, we have to accept another body. This is called transmigration of the soul.
Now, consciousness, the symptom... The presentation of the soul within this body is proved by consciousness. So from Bhagavad-gītā we can understand there are two different qualities of consciousness. One consciousness is that I know about the pain and pleasure of my body, you know about the pains and pleasures of your body, but I do not know the pains and pleasure of your body; neither you know the pains and pleasure of my body. Therefore each and every one of us is individual soul, and our consciousness is limited within the body. Similarly, there is another consciousness and another body. That body is universal body, and that consciousness is universal.
I remember I was a child... I was a baby. I still remember in my babyhood I was lying down on my elder sister's lap. She was knitting. I can still remember. So, we can remember our childhood, our boyhood, our youth, but I am the same, the body is changing. It is a fact. Similarly, when these bodies ultimately lapse or change, I am accepting another body. That is a fact. This is called transmigration of the soul. As we are changing our dress, similarly we are changing our body. And there are 8,400,000 of different kinds of bodies.
So our, at present moment, our business is simply to change bodies, change body. So we do not know what kind of body I am going to take next. There is a vast science about it, so one should know, one should prepare. Just like you are preparing yourself by education to be well situated in your future life, in this life; similarly, you should prepare yourself to get the best body in you next life. What is that next body? That is answered in the Bhagavad-gītā:
"So long one does not develop his dormant love of God," na mucyate deha-yogena tāvat, "so long he will not be able to get out of this repeated birth and death and transmigration of the soul." This transmigration of soul, repeated birth and death, is a diseased condition of the spirit soul. That we do not know. Neither in our education system there is any department of knowledge teaching what is the soul, what is after death, what was before birth. There is no science. It is very lamentable. Education in the name of simply eating, sleeping, and mating, this is not education. If my bodily conception continues... The Bhāgavata says, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke: (SB 10.84.13) "Anyone who is thinking that this body of flesh and bone is self, he is an ass." (laughter) Sa eva go-kharaḥ. Go-kharaḥ. Khara means ass. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ.
You can remember that you had a body just like this child. Now you are grown up. Where is that body? That body is gone. Now you have got a new body. But you know that "I had a childhood body like this. I was attending such and such meeting," but that body is now no longer existing.
So this transmigration of the soul is very simple subject. Any sensible man can understand. And in the Bhagavad-gītā, in the very beginning of the instruction, Kṛṣṇa says,
- dehino 'smin yathā dehe
- kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
- tathā dehāntara-prāptir
- dhīras tatra na muhyati
- (BG 2.13)
Dhīra, those who are sober, intelligent, they are not bewildered when a living entity changes his body. So change of body is going on in every moment, in every second, imperceptibly. Medical science also accepts that in every second we are changing our blood corpuscles. That is a fact. We are changing body every moment. And the final change is called death. But actually, there is no death.
We try, we try to do some service to the whole humanity, to society, to the country. That is expanded consciousness. But Bhagavad-gītā says that bahūnāṁ janmanām ante. Bahu means many, and janma means birth. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante: at the end of. At the end of many, many births. Perhaps you know that we believe the theory—not theory, the fact—of transmigration of soul. We are changing bodies one after another. There are 8,400,000's of different species of life, and we are evolving. And at last we come to this form, human form of life. This is also called bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). After many, many births. Labdhvā su-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte.
In the Bhāgavata there is a verse. It is said there, labdhvā su-durlabham idam. Idam. Idam means "this." This body, labdhvā, you have got it. Labdhvā su-durlabham idam. Su-durlabham means it is very rare. This is not very cheap. The body of cats and dogs or animals, they are cheap, but this is not very cheap. Su-durlabhaḥ. Bahūnāṁ janman... Labdhvā su-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambha-vānte.
So Kṛṣṇa is unborn. He is nityo nityānām. He's... Just like we have no janma, we have no appearance. It is simply change of dress. It is not death. As it is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā that vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22)—if I change my dress, that is not my death. This is easily understood. Similarly, transmigration of the soul from one body to another, that is not death. But because we have no eyes to see the soul, how it is changing from one body... Just like we cannot see how the baby is coming to another body, childhood, boyhood. We cannot see. We see that the body is changing. No. He's changing from one body to another. That is the version of the Bhagavad-gītā. But we say that body's growing. Why body's growing? If the body has got any growing power, then why the body of a dead child does not grow? The body has no growing power. It is actually changed. But because... Just like in the spool of your film, there are many pictures. But because you see under certain condition, you see one picture. It is very easy to understand. Actually, the pictures are changing, different pictures, and we are seeing one picture.
Therefore it is to be understood that due to the presence of the spirit soul the body grows, means changes from one form to another. It is concluded by learned scholars that this change of body is taking place every moment, but the soul is there from the beginning of the life. And when this body is no longer persistable, the soul changes to another body. That is called transmigration of the soul. That is a fact. But the modern civilization does not deal with this subject matter. They are under wrong impression that the body is self. I have talked with many scholars, and they are also under the same impression that with the end of the body, everything is finished. But actual fact is different. We can remember our childhood body. We can remember our boyhood body. Although those bodies are not present, I, the spirit soul, the occupier of the body or the proprietor of the body, I am present.
So this transmigration of soul is the most important factor to be understood by the human society. Unfortunately there is no university, there is no department of knowledge, to understand this important factor.
The activities are changing. So, this body is changing, that's a fact. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Just like in this life we are changing different types of bodies, similarly dehāntara-prāptiḥ, another body. These rascals, they do not understand the simple reasoning. Simple logic they cannot understand, still they argue, "What is the proof there is transmigration of the soul?" Here is the proof. That this child, Sarasvatī, when she is a grown-up lady she'll not act like that. But everyone will accept her, Sarasvatī, the same character (?). Her father, mother, relatives, everything is there, Sarasvatī has got another body. So what is the difficulty to understand this logic? That the soul is immortal and the body is changing. What is the difficulty? Just try to understand, you have to preach immortality of the soul, transmigration of the soul. What is the difficulty? Simple logic. What is the difficulty? Can anyone say? No difficulty? Will you be able to convince others?
Devotee (1): If our seeing is imperfect we can see the change of body but we cannot see change, the transmigration of the soul.
Prabhupāda: You cannot see anything. Your power of seeing is so limited that you cannot see anything. Therefore you have to see through Kṛṣṇa, through Bhagavad-gītā. You are seeing the sun, it is like a disc. But when you see through astronomy, then you will understand it is fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than this earth. So what is the power of your seeing? Why you are so much proud of seeing? This is nonsense. Why do you go to school? To learn how to see. Why you can sit down, anyone who hasn't got, never has gone to school and never taken an education, his seeing and a perfect MA, Ph. D. person's seeing, is that all right, the same thing? Then why you are proud of your nonsense seeing? This will be the answer.
Here is the real mercy, to awaken a person to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is real mercy, because for want of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness he is suffering millions and millions of years. Sometimes he is becoming tree like that. Suppose here is a tree; it is standing for thousands of years. So in this way they're simply suffering. This transmigration of the soul, the soul is suffering. Vaiṣṇava is giving you information that "Why you are suffering? You just accept your original position, eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. You become happy." This is Vaiṣṇava. Why you are suffering?
So māyā is there. Māyā does not want to lead (leave?) the culprits. Because one who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's a culprit, so māyā wants to give such person more and more trouble. But Vaiṣṇava risks his life to snatch him from the hands of māyā. So māyā, of course, when he sees that "This man, this living entity, is now corrected; he is now taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness," then she will not disturb.
Witnessing, and giving you the result of your fruitive activities. That is called karma.
So these things are very subtle matters, and we have got very, very scientific, authorized information of these matters. But people have become so degraded. They do not want to take any information of the soul, of the transmigration of the soul, of God, our relationship with God, what is the ultimate goal of life, why we are put into this miserable condition of life. Janma... You may say that "I am very happy." I may say, "I am very happy." But actually, there is no happiness. How there can be happy? Janma happiness? Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). Actually who is in knowledge, he should know, "Where is happiness? I do not wish to die; I am dying. I do not wish to be diseased; I am diseased. I do not wish to become old; I am becoming old. So where is my happiness?" This is called māyā. There is no happiness, but still, he's thinking that he is in happiness. This is called illusion. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So this is... Just like the animal is in illusion.
Chanting means the cleansing the heart. The more you chant, your heart will be cleansed. We are now, because we are in this material world, we are passing through evolution of many different species of life, and here is a chance given by the nature, the human form of body, where we can stop the continual transmigration of the soul from one body to another and we can have our permanent situation, back to home, back to Godhead. This is a great science. But if you neglect it, that is suicidal policy. Human mind, human life is especially meant for taking advantage of this form of life and understand "What is God? What I am? What is my relationship with God? How to act? Why I am conditioned by so many miserable conditions of life—birth, death, old age and disease?" So many things are there. But if we do not take to this, if we simply remain like animals, eating, sleeping, mating, and defending, then we are factually missing the opportunity. Therefore our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is simply to make propaganda from door to door, that "Please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra." That's all.
That is the difference. That is the distinction between East and West. In India, go to a village and you ask him that "What you are?" He will say: "Sir, I am suffering or enjoying according to my past karma." Means: "I was living in the past. So according to my action, I am suffering or enjoying the reaction in this life." He believes in the transmigration of the soul. He believes in the future life also. He is very cautious to commit sin because he knows that "If I commit sin in this life, I'll have to suffer next life." This is Eastern life. And in the Western country, I talked with so many big, big professors, especially in Moscow. I talked with Professor Kotovsky. He said: "Swamijī, after death, then everything finished. After death, everything finished." This is the difference, East and West. In the Eastern country, especially in India, a common man will understand the existence of soul. And in the Western countries, a topmost man, professor, he does not know what is soul. That is the difference.
You are desiring so many things in your life. They are recorded. And you have to accept each and every body, one after another. That is nature's gift. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni. That is the nature's work. As you desire, so you get a body. If you misuse the body, then for sometimes you are restrained not to get a gross body. There are so many scientific problems about this life and transmigration of the soul. You can understand from the authorized Vedic literature, how the soul transmigrates from one body to another. That is also explained. The soul remains with the subtle body which we cannot see, but after destruction of this gross body, the soul is carried to another gross body according to his desire by the subtle body. The example is given: just like the flavor of flower garden is carried by the air, and if you do not, even though you do not see the flower, when you smell the good smell, you can understand wherefrom the air is blowing. Similarly, according to your desire, you get a body and that desire, that capsule of mind, intelligence will carry you to another body. God will give you the chance. This is the process.
I have got now a different body, but I remember that I possessed such and such bodies. Therefore the conclusion is that, in spite of change of body, the spirit soul remains the same eternally. Similarly, when I shall change this body, I shall get another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir. That is called transmigration of the soul.
But unfortunately there is no education on this spiritual knowledge in any school, college, although there are books. They can read, they can understand the constitutional position of the soul. But there is no arrangement. Perhaps this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the only institution which is teaching people that he is not this body; he's spirit soul—he's different from body and he's transmigrating from one body to another, birth and death. Actually, the spirit soul has no birth and death. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. The spirit soul is eternal. It does not take birth or it dies. The body is changing.
Just like I am spirit soul. When this body is annihilated, I am not annihilated. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). After the destruction of this body, the soul is not destroyed. Soul remains there in the subtle body: mind, intelligence and ego. So that mind, intelligence and ego, that carries him to another gross body. That is called transmigration of the soul. This gross body, this body, even in our experience during this lifetime, we have experienced so many gross bodies came and went away. Just like I was a child, so I possessed one gross body, child's body. That came and gone away. I had a boy's body; that came and gone away. A young man's body I had, but that came and gone away. Similarly, this body, old man's body, it has come, and it will also go. So as in spite of so many other bodies came and went, similarly, when this body will no longer exist, I'll transfer myself or transmigrate into another gross body. This is called transmigration of the soul.
So Kṛṣṇa, about Kṛṣṇa it is said that He is the supreme controller and He has got His form, His body, which is not made of these material ingredients.
There are 900,000 forms in the water, two millions forms of trees and plants, eleven hundred thousand forms of the insect, and then one million forms of the birds. And then three million forms of the beasts. And then we come to this human form of life. Now it is our choice, whether you are going to be transferred again through the cycle of this transmigration of the soul from the one body to another in the lower species of life, or you want to be transferred to the spiritual sky. And you can transfer yourself to the highest spiritual platform, which is known as Goloka Vṛndāvana. That is your choice. You have been given the chance of this human form of body to make your choice. You are completely under the control of material nature, but the material nature gives you a chance to get this human form of body. Whatever you like, you can do.
That death is of this material body, not of the eternal soul. So although we are eternal, nityaḥ śāśvataḥ, still we have to accept different types of body. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). Dehino'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). So this transmigration of the soul from one body to another is not very good business. Who wants to die? Nobody wants to die. But he has to die. He must die. There is no question of he likes or not likes. Nobody wants to take birth, again enter into the womb of mother. And nowadays it is very risky, because mother is killing the child: the ultimate end of Kali-yuga. The mother's shelter, a child feels very happy on the lap of mother, and that is the arrangement of nature. Mother should take care of the child. But in this age the people are so, I mean to say, contaminated that even mother is killing child. Just imagine what is the position of birth and death. Birth and death is not very good business. Therefore if you want to stop this birth and death then take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, try to understand Kṛṣṇa.
Just like the child is become a boy, the boy is becoming young man, the young man is becoming middle-aged man, and the middle-aged man is becoming old man. So what is next after the old body? The next is tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: you have to accept another body. This is called chain or cycle of birth and death, or transmigration of the soul. This is going on. So if you want to... But nobody wants to die. Nobody wants to change this body. But this is a problem. One should know it. That is the first instruction given by Kṛṣṇa... (break) ...Arjuna, that we are changing. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. So this is the opportunity, human life. If we want to stop this repetition of birth and death under different obligation and different circumstances, we should take instruction from Kṛṣṇa, try to understand Kṛṣṇa—that is Bhagavad-gītā—and make our life successful so that... Understanding Kṛṣṇa means, as it is stated, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). We have come from God; we again go back to God if we simply understand Kṛṣṇa, or God. This is the whole instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā.
"So this is not the statement of a paṇḍita." In other way He... He is friend. Or as śiṣya..., that "This kind of things never happens in the case of a paṇḍita." That means, "My dear friend, you are apaṇḍita. You are not paṇḍita." One who does not know about the spirit soul, he is not a paṇḍita. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. This transmigration of the soul... Just like you condole d one Rotarian who has died. But Kṛṣṇa says, dhīras tatra na muhyati. "Yes, he's not dead. He has transmigrated to another body. He's not dead." That is the... Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This is the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, that "Don't think that because the body is annihilated, therefore the person is annihilated. No." Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit: "That soul never takes birth, never dies." Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam, na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). This is the first instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. There are so many students of Bhagavad-gītā, but because they are not actually paṇḍita, they do not take account of the simple thing, how the soul transmigrates from one body to another. This is the position.
Philosophy Discussions
Hayagrīva: He writes, "The soul changes its body only gradually and by degrees, so that it is never deprived of all its organs at once. There is often a metamorphosis in animals, but never metempsychosis or transmigration of souls."
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Hayagrīva: That is he does not believe that the souls in animals transmigrate at death from one body to another.
Prabhupāda: Then what is his understanding of the soul?
Hayagrīva: He says there are no entirely separate souls without bodies.
Prabhupāda: That is rascal. That means he is imperfect. How he can say so when we practically see that the soul is changing from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood? How he can say like that? He is transmigrating. That is, every day we have experience. How he can deny that? Otherwise, if he, if the soul does not transmigrate, then how the child becomes a young man? The body is different. The, this is simple understanding, that he has changed the body. The body changes and the soul remains eternal.
Prabhupāda: When a man talks we say he is intelligent man, but we do not see what is intelligent. So the talking instrument is this body. So this body is finished, gross body is finished, does it mean that his consciousness, intelligence finished? No. That continues. Just like you dream. This body is not working—this is practical—but his consciousness is working, his mind is working. So similarly, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). After the destruction of this gross body, the mind, intelligence continues, and because to work the mind and intelligence he requires a body, so he develops body. That is transmigration of the soul. It is very clear to understand.
Hayagrīva: Well he felt that the level of consciousness could not supersede whatever knowledge is available on this planet. I guess that's clear.
Prabhupāda: No, it can supersede, provided you get knowledge from authority. Just like somebody is sitting here, he has not seen India. But somebody who has full knowledge of India or seen or gone there, he can describe, and he can understand that there is place, India, the place is like this, like that. So similarly, from authority, just like Kṛṣṇa says, there is another nature: paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ avyaktaḥ avyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). That nature is eternal. Here, this nature as we find, it is not eternal. It is temporary. It takes birth, it is maintained for sometimes, it changes, it becomes old, and again destroyed, finished.
Hayagrīva: This is continuation of Jung. Jung noted that there are five types of rebirths, not he that particularly ascribed to them, but that he noted that in religions that there are five types of rebirth. One is called metempsychosis. He says, "According to this view, one's life is prolonged in time by passing through different bodily existences, or from another point of view it is a life sequence interrupted by different reincarnations. It is by no means certain whether continuity of personality is guaranteed or not. There may only be a continuity of karma." So this is like a transmigration of souls.
Prabhupāda: Yes. What is the technical name?
Hayagrīva: But... He called, its metempsychosis.
Prabhupāda: What is the meaning?
Hayagrīva: It means transmigration of souls...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That means he believes in eternity. This loss of senses, that is we also accept that there are three stages: jāgrati, awakening, and sleeping and deep sleeping. So deep sleeping means unconsciousness. So when a man dies from awakening state, he enters into the dreaming state and then enters into the deep sleeping state. So transmigration of the soul means he gives up this gross body, and the subtle body, mind, intelligence carries him to the another body, and in another body, unless the body is prepared properly, he lives in deep sleep. And when the body is prepared at seven months for human being, then he comes to consciousness. He feels, "Oh, why I am put into this packed-up status." If he is pious he feels very uncomfortable. He prays to God—these things are described—that "Kindly excuse me from this awkward position. Now this time I shall become a devotee." This is position. The soul is immortal, but still he enters into different stages of life. Then when he comes out, the same different stages of body continues.
Hayagrīva: At the same time Origen differed from the later Church tradition in his belief in the transmigration of the soul. Although he believed that the soul was originally created, he believed that it transmigrated, and it transmigrated because the soul, the individual soul, could always refuse to give itself to God, although he believed that ultimately the time will come when everyone will return, and God's rule will be restored to its original integrity. This differed from later Christian tradition, which said that the choice one made in this one lifetime was decisive for all eternity. Origen doesn't believe this. He believes that you can be reincarnated at the end of this lifetime if you don't attain the ultimate goal. You'd be reincarnated in some other form.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our version of the Vedas. Unless he is liberated or goes to the kingdom of God, he is, repeats, transforms, or transmigrates from one material body to another, because material body is not eternal. You can enter one material body; the material body grows or it remains for sometime; then it becomes old, and then it is useless for any purpose; you have to give up this material body and enter again into a new material body.
Prabhupāda: Then you continue or fulfill your desire in that body, again it becomes old, again you have to give up, and again you have to accept another new body. Because everything material deteriorates, and the soul, being eternal, it cannot remain in the deteriorated body to function materially; therefore transmigration of the soul is essential. As the example is given that when you have got a material shirt and coat, when it is old enough, it cannot be used, you have to throw it out and accept another new shirt and coat. The material conditional life is like that. That is called transmigration.
Hayagrīva: It's interesting that Origen did not reject transmigration, neither did Christ reject transmigration. It wasn't until later, until the next philosopher that we take up, Augustine, that the idea of...
Prabhupāda: Transmigration is...
Hayagrīva: Transmigration (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: This is, this is instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, that one who does not believe in God or disobeys the orders of God, a day will come when God will come as death, and his all power, all false prestige, all imagination, all plans will be all broken. Then after that, according to the transmigration of the soul, that person, because he did not obey the orders of God, he acted like animals, he gets the body of an animal. This is transmigration. And he suffers.
Hayagrīva: He also writes, "If we submit everything to reason, our religion will have no mysterious and supernatural element. If we offend the principles of reason, our religion will be absurd and ridiculous."
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is a fact. Because religion means the orders given by God. So if we faithfully carry out the orders of God, then that is religion. But if we don't carry out the orders of God, this is cheating religion. That is not religion. That is condemned in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That cheating religion are kicked out from the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So any religious system which has no conception of God and does everything, every year changes by resolution of the priests, that "Now this is all right," against religious principles—that is a farce. That is not religion.
| Page Title: | Transmigration of the soul (Lectures, other) |
| Compiler: | Labangalatika, RupaManjari, Mayapur |
| Created: | 07 of Mar, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=41, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 41 |