Transformation (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"transform" |"transformable" |"transformation" |"transformations" |"transformed" |"transforming" |"transforms"

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1970, Bombay:

Haṁsadūta: "It will create a national problem of a magnitude the like of which he has not seen before. In fact, Western society is in for a great jolt. A. Karim Saikh.(?)" Then two more letters.

Prabhupāda: But the old woman's crying.

Haṁsadūta: Do you want to hear the next letter? This is the second letter. "I do not see why you devoted two full pages to the article on 'Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa,' November 8th. Wearing a plain white sari, applying sandal paste on the forehead and wearing nose-rings do not transform one. Churning milk gopī fashion is no way to attain spiritual bliss. The statements made by the devotees of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement reflect an attitude of escapism."

Prabhupāda: Hm. Anyway, we are getting publicity.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: So if he becomes, if he takes to these processes, then automatically...

Guest: Transformation(indistinct) will take place automatically.

Prabhupāda: ...his whole life is changed. Yes. Because these four things—illicit sex life, intoxication, meat-eating, and gambling—they are very great impediments for social improvement.

Guest: And that will automatically make his life simpler because a person who is not indulging in illicit sex life or intoxication and other things has to live a comparatively simpler life.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Śyāmasundara: The idea is how to transform that belief into practical action. That's the art.

Dr. Weir: But some people need the bridge of the Godhead to achieve it, other people do it abstractly.

Śyāmasundara: Today we went to a service, a Christian service, the first one I've been to in years, and in the back of the church we walked in there were eleven old ladies sitting in the pews. And outside I could hear the roar of traffic and people. I began to think how much the Christian church has lost track or lost pull(?) of this ability to be able to guide people, the practical application of moral and spiritual principles, so much so that no one was interested to come in...

Prabhupāda: One priest in Boston, he issued leaflet regretting that these boys, he saw our students. He appreciated that these boys are so much after God and they're our boys. We could not give them. Actually the same boy was, one year or two years ago, he was not going to church, was not interested in God consciousness, but now this same boy is mad after God. And he's twenty-four hours in God consciousness.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Mensa Member: Even if it's not there now, it was there a thousand years ago.

Śyāmasundara: It's gone through about the different transformations.

Dr. Weir: Well, this is a form of scientific atavism. It's rather outmoded with the usual concepts of long ago. But one's rather got beyond that now.

Śyāmasundara: No, it then takes...

Prabhupāda: So we have to go down there now...

Mensa Member: (indistinct) great argument.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We shall talk more...

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: You take grains, just like paddy or wheat. These plants, after producing the fruit, the grain, automatically they die. You are not killing. So, those who are taking fruits, vegetable, grains, they are not actually killing. You take the milk... What is milk? Milk is transformation of the blood. So, cow's milk means cow's blood, but still the cow is not killed. Cow's blood is nutritious, accepting this theory. Karnish (?), karnish it is called? Cow's blood? What is the meaning of karnish (?)? But by nature's way she is delivering you the blood which is nutritious—according to your science—but why you should kill her? So any circumstances, the direct killing is not approved by any śāstra, any religion. Jīva hiṁsā. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says, niṣiddhācāra jīva-hiṁsā. So, jiva hiṁsā, violence upon other animals, that is against Vaiṣṇava principle. You cannot be violent, you cannot kill.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So you know, then you discover, counteracting. Just like formerly, in the warfare the atomic brahmāstra was thrown. On the other side... brahmāstra means excessive heat. So they caused something, they transformed into water. Because after heat, there must be water. So where is that science?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is just like milk. Milk looks white, but it is just water. They call it, it's a colloidal suspension of proteins, these caseins, in water. So similarly, this fog is just a colloidal suspension of water in the air.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So you create some fire. It will be immediately driven away. Water can be driven away by fire. So you create. That you cannot. You just shot one bomb. There will be some heat, and all the mist will go away. Do it.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Lord Brockway: I think the only thing I'd say is this, that whilst the body that you have and I have is different from the body, the material body, when we were a child, it has been a continuous transformation. It hasn't been the ending of one body and the beginning of another. And in the process of change, a, an existence is carried on. It isn't like death, which means that at that point your personality becomes separated from your physical body suddenly, like that. It is different.

Prabhupāda: No. We become separated from the physical body, but we remain in the astral body, or subtle body, mind, intelligence... mind, intelligence and ego. That mind, material mind, material intelligence, you give up when you actually remain in your spiritual body. So this is also a great science. But unfortunately, there is no discussion on this point in any university of the world. But this is a science. So actual human civilization means they should study, they should inquire about this science and be well conversant. And that is the human... Athāto brahma jijñāsā.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Reporter: But what I'm asking is how to bring the karma-yoga, the action, to transform the society, bring back into the...

Prabhupāda: Yes, the yoga in its preliminary stage is karma-yoga. Yoga, yoga means connecting.

Reporter: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So karma, when you...

Reporter: Yoga karma sukhośanām. (?)

Room Conversation -- September 1, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No. The soul is a living being. So nature is supplying material and he's molding in different forms. Just like earth is not man's creation. Earth is God's creation, or it is product of God's energy. But we are using this earth and molding in different forms, different pots, different dolls. So ingredients are supplied by God. Nature means God's energy. We simply handle them. We cannot produce anything, we transform only. Just like this iron, we cannot produce iron. It is gotten from the mine, iron bar. Now we have transformed into different forms. Because we have got creative energy like God, not very great, in very minute quantity. So as God has created by His intelligence, the whole universe—we are creating this table, this pillow, this harmonium—that's all. What you are finding?

Room Conversation -- September 1, 1973, London:

Guest: Transformed?

Prabhupāda: Transformed or whatever, but you see urine is coming, perspiration is coming. So these different waters are produced by your energy within the body. So why not from God's energy the vast water?

Guest: Yes, truly.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: But why should he give us...

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, but the iron is not manufactured by you. Neither the magnetic stone is manufactured by you. You take nature's product and utilize it. That is not your original creation. So what is credit to you? You can transform. That is in your hand. Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). There are two things: material and spiritual, inferior energy and superior energy. Jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho. The living entities, they are superior energy. Why superior? They can take the materials and handle. Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat. That is your superior energy. You can take the matters and combine it and make something else. That is the world, going on, matter and spirit. You have created your own body by your desire. So that you can do, but the materials, the body, you cannot create. That is not in your power.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 5, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: You want us to be drunkards on the holy name, and be like those...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. There is eight kinds of transcendental transformation... (pause) (devotees chant japa) (break)

Prajāpati: ...foolish play tennis, and the lazy foolish they play golf. (Prabhupāda laughs) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...less dangerous than the active foolish. (devotees chant japa) (break)

Prajāpati: In the Bhagavad-gītā it is indicated by Śrī Kṛṣṇa that when we approach a bona fide spiritual master our relationship is twofold. We render service and then we also make inquiry.

Prabhupāda: Yeah.

Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: If desire is extinguished, then what you are?

Guest: But it's not extinguishing of desire; it's transforming of desire. Like this is one...

Prabhupāda: That is not extinguishing.

Guest: Right. But in the sense it is, uh, the uh, flame of, uh...

Prabhupāda: That we say. You don't extinguish desire but we purify desire. That is our... But that is not the void, nirvāṇa. Nirvāṇa means finished.

Guest: Well, the way, uh, the way it's interpreted, you know, by the people that practice it, is that, uh, you don't extinguish your desires either but they're transformed into the Buddha principles. They say this is the meaning of Mahayana Buddhism, is that you, uh, learn to identify the desire passions with the Buddha principles, and so they become transformed so that...

Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Transformed to what?

Guest: Well, for instance lust is supposed to be transformed into compassion, and the other uh, the other passion desires are transformed to something else.

Prabhupāda: Then it is not nirvāṇa. It is real condition. Then that is our principle. That is not nirvāṇa. Just like...

Guest: Well, this is what I mean by nirvāṇa.

Prabhupāda: You mean, but you the word nirvāṇa. Suppose I take out your eyes. This is one thing. And I...

Morning Walk -- April 16, 1974, Bombay:

Girirāja: "Lord Viṣṇu, Brahmā also realized, was the reservoir of all truth, knowledge and bliss. He is the combination of three transcendental features, namely eternity, knowledge and bliss. He is the object of worship by the followers of the Upaniṣads. Brahmā realized that all the different forms of cows, boys and calves transformed into Viṣṇu forms were not transformed by a mysticism of the type that a yogi or demigod can display by specific powers invested in him. The cows, calves and boys transformed into viṣṇu-mūrtis, or Viṣṇu forms, were not displays of viṣṇu-māyā, or Viṣṇu energy, but were Viṣṇu Himself. The respective qualifications of Viṣṇu and viṣṇu-māyā are just like fire and heat. In the heat there is..." (break)

Dr. Patel: (Sanskrit) (break) So you stop. You stop only.

Prabhupāda: Give up, give up the result.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: No. Nature's way is not better share, but equal share. Just like when you take foodstuff, put it in the stomach, and when it is easily digested and transformed into different secretion and comes to the heart and becomes blood, there is equal distribution. Not that because brain is first-class, therefore the blood transformation to the brain should go more. No. Then it will be blood pressure, high blood pressure. This is nature's way, that... But when the energy goes to the brain, it acts differently. When the energy goes to the hands, it acts differently. The electricity energy is the same, but sometimes by working on the dictaphone, sometimes on the microphone, sometimes in electric heater, sometimes in refrigerator... The different apparatuses are there, but the energy is the same, equal.

Room Conversation with Biochemist, Dr. Sallaz -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: One of their conclusions has been to be able to make one element to change into another element. They were able to take iron and transform it into chrome by chemical process, almost like alchemy, he says. And this was very startling for the scientific world.

Dr. Sallaz: Result. Result, only with physical heat, eight hundred, and pressure, only this. No laser, no atomic energy, nothing at all. Simply by natural measures.

Prabhupāda: We can give you one information, that metals like bell metal. Bell metal is combination of...? What is called? Tin? Tin? What is another name of tin?

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Robert Gouiran: There is no end. It's only a transformation.

Yogeśvara: There is no what?

Prabhupāda: What is that transformation?

Robert Gouiran: You say...

Yogeśvara: There is no end?

Robert Gouiran: ...there is a beginning and there is a end. But I don't call it an end. It's just transformation.

Prabhupāda: The transformation is going on automatically. Transformation... Just like from ether there is transformation of sound. From sound there is air. From air there is fire. From fire there is water. From water there is land. That is going on. You are not doing anything. It is going on. This is known that this is the physical elements. Beginning is the ether. Do you accept it or not? From ether there is sound.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: His point is this transformation is going on...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yogeśvara: ...but what was one ship or one relic, now there's a new one. Is that your point?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: That there is no beginning or end to the energy.

Robert Gouiran: No, what I said before. I said that to say that the ship is now relic...

Prabhupāda: But you... That we admit. There is some temporary use. There is some temporary use.

Robert Gouiran: Yes, I agree.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Robert Gouiran: But my work is to understand what will be the next transformation.

Prabhupāda: That transform...

Robert Gouiran: So to transform the temporary...

Prabhupāda: You know or do not know, the transformation will take place. Take, for example, the ship. The ship is combination of these five material things, earth, water, air, fire and... And when it is destroyed, it again turns into earth, water, fire... So the conservation of energy is there. You simply give a shape, temporary, and it goes again to the same place, original physical elements. This is going on. But you are... You do not know that you are eternal. That is ignorance. So therefore the sense is that "If I am eternal, then why I am busy with these temporary things?" That knowledge is lacking. I am eternal. So now, as human being, I am busy in temporary things, to construct a big ship or aeroplane. But as soon as I change this body, I become a bird, I have no power. Then I manufacture a nest on the top of the tree.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: If I remember correctly from the little bit of studies that I did in physics, I think it's also the physical definition that material energy is also indestructible, that it's transformable, but not destructible. Is that correct?

Robert Gouiran: Exactly, that the, that the... I was telling the definition of the energy. And if we start from pure energy, absolutely immaterial, pure energy, this pure energy can transform itself in two parts. One is called matter and the other I call anti-matter. And these two parts, they can annihilate together, and then you have back the pure energy. That is definition, our definition, of anti-matter. The anti-matter is what is produced with the matter from pure energy, and what is annihilated by matter to produce again pure energy. You can't, you can't produce our matter, ordinary matter, from pure energy. It's impossible.

Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. That pure energy is spiritual energy, and from that spiritual energy the material energy comes out. That I have already said: From the soul the matter grows.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Because spiritual energy is the cause, and material energy effect. Effect may be presented in different forms. Just like cotton is the cause of thread. And the thread is transformed into cloth. But you cannot take cotton for cloth. The cotton is there in the cloth in a different, transformed, transform, but you cannot accept, when you require a cloth, you cannot take cotton. This is a crude example. So the cause of physical elements is spiritual energy, and the spiritual energy is... Both spiritual... Spiritual energy is coming from God. Just like... (aside:) Close. (sound of windows closing) Just like the sunshine is coming from the sun, and in the sunshine there are so many physical transformations. Is it not? In the sunshine... Just like we, ordinary men, we can understand. When there is absence of sunshine... In your western countries or in other..., the leaves of the tree falls down. And again, in the springtime, as soon as there is sufficient sunshine, immediately thousands of trees grows leaves. So there is action of sunshine. So sunshine is coming from the sun. And the sunshine is working in different ways, changing the color of the flowers, of the leaves, and... Or, so far I know, all the planets are, they're rotating on the sunshine heat. Eh? So therefore the sunshine is the original cause of all material, physical things. But wherefrom the sunshine comes?

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Cloth. Then comes coat or shirt or so many things. So cotton is everywhere. Similarly, the spiritual energy is everywhere, but it is transformed by different processes. Therefore the Vedic injunction is sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Everything is Brahman. Our philosophy is that everything being Kṛṣṇa's energy, everything should be employed for Kṛṣṇa's service. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The property is Kṛṣṇa's. By Kṛṣṇa's energy, everything has come into existence. Therefore everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Therefore everything should be employed for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction, for His pleasure. Suppose you create something... You create some building, you create some family, you create some... So many things. You want to enjoy it.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: That's it. He is the source of everything. So-called material, so-called spiritual—everything coming from Him. Therefore everything transformed... Or not transformed. Everything is transforming. That's all right. Therefore everything belongs to Him. So everything should be employed for His satisfaction. That is perfection. Iti matvā bhajante māṁ budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). After many, many births, when one becomes actually scientist, he understands, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is the source of everything." Find out.

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: The big snake is going. The snake also knows that "He's saintly person. He may not be disturbed. Let me go away." And from reason also, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe... (BG 18.61). Kṛṣṇa is everyone's heart. He's dictating. So Kṛṣṇa can dictate to the animals, to the serpent, to the man, everyone. Such nice foodstuff. And mostly they are made of milk. These people, they do not know. They kill the cows and throw the milk away to the hogs. And they are proud of their civilization. Like jackals and vultures. Actually, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will transform these uncivilized men to real civilization. Their civilization is now compact in masonry work, collecting stones and bricks and piling them. This much, their civilization. Actually, apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). The explanation I gave this morning. They do not know what is ātma-tattvam. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ.

Room Conversation with Monsieur Mesman, Chief of Law House of Paris -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So our recommendation is, "Don't kill cow." Take milk and make thousands of preparations, all nutritious and very healthy. They do not know how to use cow. Instead of killing, if we take, let the animal live and give us milk, and from the milk, we make hundreds of preparations. The milk is nothing but blood, transformation of blood. So we take the blood by killing the animal, but we do not wish to kill such an important animal, but they take the blood in form of milk and make preparation. And those who are flesh-eaters, let them wait for the death of the cow. Then let them eat the flesh, not living condition. So we are making preparation that keep the cows, protect the cows, and when the cow dies, the flesh-eater may take it away. So he can take the skin, he can take the hoof, he can take the horn, he can take the flesh, everything, whatever he likes. Because when it is dead, it is no more useful for us. So the others, who are interested with the skin, in the flesh, in the hoof, they can take it. And they get it free.

Morning Walk -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Then what... You have done the work of a laborer. That's all. You have taken ingredients from God and worked hard and transformed into a step. That's all. Your creation means just like carpenter creates a furniture. That's all. That is his creation. Then that is... The economic law says that man cannot create anything. He can simply transform. These trees, has man created these trees? Why do they claim man has created everything?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: But they will say that they made the garden.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Now first of all, let us understand what is God. Then prayer. If you do not understand God, then what you'll prayer? If we understand that there is the active principle, then the prayer we have already described, janmādy asya yataḥ anvayāt itarataś cārtheṣu abhijñaḥ: (SB 1.1.1) "I pray to the Supreme Personality of Godhead Vāsudeva who is the origin of all creation." This is the active principle. There is. So... And how He is working? (To Jyotirmayī:) You have to explain. (French) In the beginning of Bhāgavatam, I offering the prayer. So the process is that I offer my all respect to the Absolute Truth, Supreme Truth, from whom the creation has taken place, everything is resting, working nicely, and after annihilation, it will go there. And when you study what is the nature of the original source, it is said, abhijñaḥ, cognizant. He knows everything. Just like I am the owner of this body, I, the soul, but still, I do not know how the body is working. I am eating, but I do not know how my eatables transformed into secretion, then goes to the heart, then... Of course, they have discovered something, but not fully.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: And from this level the heaven opens to those who didn't understand what the heaven means. They thought it was behind the clouds. You see, there is a natural way to look at God, and this natural way to look at God is lost as soon as people go through the rational mind. And then there is no other way out but to have a personal initiated experience. We talk about initiation. When people are capable to go through a certain death and to discover another level, and only... And so, the great wisdom which you are talking about, I am sure that it also touches people on two levels. There is the ordinary man and he might believe, but there is a deeper level where things start to change yourself, to transform yourself in deeper experiences.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is... That is the beginning of instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā. The beginning of knowledge...

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk Through the BBT Warehouse -- February 10, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice. But make them devotees. That is the real father and mother, who begets children and make him devotee. That is real father and mother. Otherwise cats and dogs. A Tulasī dāsa, he has written one poetry that "A son and the urine comes from the same way." Son... Son means it is born out of the semina. That also comes through the genital, and the urine also comes through the genital. So he is giving this example that "Putra and Mutra..." Mutra, means urine, and putra means son, comes from the same passage. So if the son is a devotee, then he's putra; otherwise he's mutra. (laughter) Otherwise he's urine. Very nice. Yes. Putra and mutra come from the same channel. If he's a devotee, then he's putra, otherwise he's mutra. (break) ...miseries are compared with the heat and cold. Mātrā sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ (BG 2.14). Śīta and uṣṇa. Uṣṇa means hot, and śīta means cold. They are pleasing and miserable in circumstances. Cold is very pleasing in the summer, and heat is very pleasing in winter. But same heat in summer is not pleasing, and same cold in winter, it is not pleasing. So what is the actual position of cold and heat? It is simply transforming as pleasure and pain according to circumstances.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: There is spiritual and material. The material is simply a phantasmagoria. It is the imitation of the reality. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, fifteenth chapter, find out. Ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākham (BG 15.1). That is called mirage. In the desert the animal is finding water. There is no water in the desert. But there is water, but not in the desert. That they do not know. So this is just like desert, this material world and everything is reflection like the water. But desert there is no water, it is only reflection. Tejo-vāri-mṛdāṁ vinimayo yatra tri-sargo 'mṛṣā. Tejo-vāri-mṛdāṁ vinimayaḥ. Here everything is a transformation of three material things, fire, water, and earth, but it looks like reality. Just like the mirage, that is also tejo-vāri-mṛdāṁ vinimayaḥ, by reflection of the sun falling on the sand, and it looks like water. This is (indistinct). And the animal is running after water, running, running, running, when he becomes fatigued (he) dies. That's all.

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: And go-rakṣya. Another business is to protect the cows, and to give them food nicely so the cows will give enough milk. And from milk, you know, so many nice preparations, all full of vitamins. So why they should be killed? You are killing; the blood is not utilized, you are taking the flesh. But flesh is transformation of the blood. And milk is also transformation of the blood. So if you take, just like channa, it is as good as flesh. By taste, by benefit—as good as. So why if you can take the flesh and blood in a human way-blood is transformed into milk, and from milk there are so many good preparations-ghee, yoghurt, burfi, channa, so many preparations are available. This panir, channa, and let the animal live peacefully. Why are you cutting his throat? You require some benefit from the animal. Take this benefit. Why should you kill? If he can live and give better service, then why shall I try to kill? What is this human civilization? Is that human civilization, that I am taking service from you, and I am cutting your throat? Is that humanity? What is the answer?

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Jesuit: Hm. Transformed, it changes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So actually there is nothing material. When God consciousness is there, it is spiritual. This... In association with God, everything becomes spiritual. Just like there is a church and there is an ordinary house. People say, " This is church, God's place, and this is house." What is the difference? That is also made of bricks; that is also made of bricks. Why people go to the church? Why not to the house? So the conclusion is, when the atmosphere is surcharged with God consciousness, it is spiritual. Immediately. Otherwise, as soon as you forget God, then it is material. Material and spiritual means where there is no forgetfulness of God, that is spiritual. And where there is forgetfulness of God, that is material.

Jesuit: Hm. Sort of a figurative use of the word.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: This is practical. We can stop. Just like they have become saintly person. Everyone... India they are surprised that "How you have made these Europeans, Americans like this?" They are surprised. Because in India the brāhmaṇas and others, they were under impression that "These Western people, they are hopeless. They cannot be any advanced religionist or spiritual." So when they see we have got many temples in India, that they are worshiping Deity and managing everything, chanting, dancing, they are surprised. Many swamis came before me, but they could not transform. But it is not I who have transformed, but the method is so nice that they became transformed.

Director: But people will say a very small percentage of the population.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Judah: Kṛṣṇa has been certainly a great influence in my life, the chanting and being with the devotees. It has been a transforming thing.

Brahmānanda: I was looking at your book last evening. I thought it was very nice.

Dr. Judah: Thank you.

Brahmānanda: It's very scholarly and scientific and at the same time sympathetic. So I think it will make everyone happy.

Dr. Judah: Yes. I hope so. I dedicated it to the devotees and to their parents.

Brahmānanda: Yes. To breach the gap, yoga. (laughter)

Dr. Judah: It might help some reconciliations in some cases.

Jayatīrtha: That's a good idea for devotees to give to their parents. (break)

Dr. Judah: ...it has many imperfections of which I am well aware. Mistakes that I hope in another edition can be corrected.

Prabhupāda: But many parents are very happy because their...

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Brahmānanda: "I feel certain my book will help people both to understand the teachings of Kṛṣṇa the of His descent as Caitanya and to realize how Kṛṣṇa consciousness has transformed lives from drug-addicted hippies to loving servants of Kṛṣṇa and humanity."

Prabhupāda: This is his study. He has written a book. So we can stop this, provided we are given the facility to work on.

Mayor: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So I was thinking. Just in front there is a very nice house, big house. You have knowledge about this house?

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: They know, "We shall be killed." They are always depressed. Therefore milk is not properly supplied. So that is stated in the Bhagavad..., er, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that during Mahārāja Yudhisthira's time the cows were so jubilant that milk was dropping from the milkbags, so much so that the pasturing grounds became muddy with milk. So if you keep... Killing of cows means utilizing the blood in different form. The milk is also another transformation of the blood. So if you take milk sufficiently and prepare nice foodstuff, then it is equally beneficial like the meat from health point of view. But one must know the..., learn that keep the cow living; at the same time be benefited by the blood. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā you will find this word kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. Go-rakṣya. This animal has to be protected. Not other animals it is mentioned. And go, cow. So those who are meat-eaters, they can eat nonimportant animals. But cows should be given protection. This is the instruction. But in the western country the cows are specially being killed. Now the reaction is war, crime, and they are now repentant. And they will have to repent more and more.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Sandy Nixon: What transformations does one undergo on the path of Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: No transformation. The consciousness is there. It is now filled with all rubbish things. You have to cleanse this, and then Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Just like water. Water is, by nature, clear, transparent. But when it is filled up with rubbish things, it is muddy. You cannot see very clearly. But if you filter it, all muddy things, dirty things, then again comes to the original position, clear, transparent water.

Sandy Nixon: Does one function better in society as a result of affiliation with Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: What is the meaning?

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: So that means they are not even civilized, how to prepare nutritious food from milk. Milk-accepting that cow flesh and blood is very nutritious, that we also admit—but a civilized man utilizes the blood and meat in a different way. The milk is nothing but blood. But it is transformed into milk. And again, from milk you make so many things. You make yogurt, you make curd, you make ghee, so many things. And combination of these milk products with grains, with fruits and vegetables, you make similar hundreds of preparation. So this is civilized life, not that directly kill one animal and eat. That is uncivilized life. You take the-accepting that cow's flesh and blood is very nutritious—you take it in a civilized way. Why you should kill? It is innocent animal. Is simply eating grass given by God and supplying milk. And from milk you can live. And the gratefulness is that cut his throat? Is that civilization? What do you say?

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So it dies before. All these food grain plants, when the food grains are ripened, they dry. So it is not required to kill the plant. When it is already dead, you can take the food grains. When you take milk, the cow is not killed. The milk is nothing but transformation of the blood. So we are taking milk means blood. The blood is in a red color, and milk is in white color, but it is blood. Unless it is blood, how so much liquid comes from the body? So we take the same blood in a very intelligible way so that cow may live, he can continue to give me more and more, and I take more benefit from the wonderful food, milk. This is intelligence. And because cow blood is very beneficial for health, if I kill the cow, that is not very good intelligence. In our New Vrindaban the cows are giving more milk than others because they know we shall not kill them. They are happy. You'll get from Bhāgavatam... Find out this verse in the First Canto, I think, kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ sarva-kāma-dughā mahī (SB 1.10.4). Find this verse.

Morning Walk -- August 6, 1975, Detroit:

Brahmānanda: In Dr. Judah's book he gives interviews with the devotees, and they tell so many instances of how our devotees were so depressed and hopeless, and then they became Kṛṣṇa conscious, and oh, their whole lives have been transformed, and how happy and... Why don't they see that? They somehow discount it as being not very substantial, being fanatical or something religious. But it's a fact. He took a survey of "What was the thing that attracted you to the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement?" So the majority, about 53%, they said it was the sound of the mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa. And another, about 48%, they said it was the friendliness of the devotees.

Prabhupāda: And that one, what is called? Draft? Draft man came to inquire that "What is the allurement here in this society that they try to avoid that..." What do you call? Draft? "...draftboard and come to this society? What is the facility?" So when he studied he said that "There is no facility; still harder. They have to give up so many things." He remarked like that, "Still harder."

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1975, Bombay:

Lalitā: You are changing actually, transforming.

(Bengali) ....Rajneesh... (Bengali) She has to go to the temple, take the prasāda, serve to... (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) ...Kartik Bose... (Bengali) ...Kartik Bose's laboratory... (Bengali) ...Gauḍīya Maṭha... (Bengali)

Lalitā: (Bengali) ...Māyāpur... (Bengali) ...Vṛndāvana... (Bengali) ...Hare Kṛṣṇa mandir... (Bengali) ...Guru Mahārāja... (Bengali) They are so impressed, the way they are putting the śaṇkha and then, you know, ārati... (Bengali) The same time the door opens and the same time the śaṇkha. (Bengali) Sincere, sincere devotee.

Prabhupāda: Sincere devotee. (Bengali) At least... (Bengali) ...hundred men come... (Bengali) They have nothing to do with the

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: But he did not understand economics, sir. What is money after all? Money is nothing but the labor transformed into materials. We had the huge labor of sixty crores of people. He was capable of transforming that labor into material unfortunately and...

Prabhupāda: Anyway, they changed the Gandhi's program.

Dr. Patel: That is what Gandhi understood, but he did not.

Prabhupāda: How he can understand? He wanted to utilize to become prime minister.

Dr. Patel: Internationally that happened.

Morning Walk -- November 12, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: First of all let me, let me understand. This bodily transformation does not make any difference. Either it is made like a dog or it is made like a man, it is made from the earth. So one who knows the ingredient, he does not make any difference. Because he knows the dog or the man made of the same ingredient. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. First of all the body. The bodily conscious even...

Dr. Patel: He has come.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: He has come.

Prabhupāda: The bodily consciousness is also material. That is also one. And the soul consciousness, spiritual, that is also one. That is ekatvam. So for a learned person there is no defect. Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini, paṇḍitaḥ samaḥ (BG 5.18).

Morning Walk -- November 12, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: And material is, nothing but the transformation of māyā, is it not?

Prabhupāda: No. No. māyā means something false. Nobody makes anything. Everything is made by... Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). Kṛṣṇa is the creator of everything. māyā is also created by Kṛṣṇa. So just like government creates police department. But police department is made for that person who violates the laws of God. The police department is creation of government. Similarly, māyā's business is to capture, arrest the criminal who has gone against God, capture him. Mūḍha janmani janmani (BG 16.20). Mam aprapyaiva. This is the arrangement. Nobody is independent. Everything. Therefore it is called sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. So māyā is also Brahman. māyā is also Brahman. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Why māyā is different from God? It is creation of God. Mama māyā, Kṛṣṇa says. Mama māyā. So how māyā can be... The difference is police cannot arrest the president. Now it has been proved in the law. The president, the prime minister, they cannot be interfered by the police or law. That is good judgment. If the head of the estate is also interfered by police, that does not look well. So this judgment is very nice. Therefore in English constitution the first word is "The king can do no wrong." You cannot accuse king of doing wrong. Whatever he does, it is all right.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...transform into a nice park this space. (break)

Akṣayānanda: Did Giridhārīlal see you last night, from the Mathurā Janmasthān? (break) ...influence Dalmia, but I don't know. We haven't seen any results yet regarding the gośālā. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...sandy. We want to avoid this sandy.

Harikesa: We should go back up, then. (break)

Devotee: The people here say that this is the Raman Reti. This is the place, the most sacred spot where Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma would come.

Prabhupāda: Hm. (break) ...panot. (loud squawking of birds)

Harikesa: (break)...and went back to civilized life.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Salt means earth. Earth. So in the water there is earth. Bhumir āpaḥ. So within the water there is earth. And within the fire there is water. And within the air there is fire. Sukṣmaṁ to sthūla. From sky to land. These are the different transformation stages. (break) Nehru? Nehru. (break) Eat rice only?

Indian man: Yes, rice only. No capātis.

Yaśodānandana: Yes, in South India they only eat rice. In Mysore we had a meal. The gentleman served us nine different kinds of rice.

Acyutānanda: Nava-dhānya.

Yaśodānandana: Nava-dhānya. Rice with yogurt, rice with chilies, rice with dahl, rice with everything.

Morning Walk -- February 20, 1976, Mayapura:

Dayānanda: In 1933-34. But you have, you have done so much. Even, even though you just had some low-class persons, you have transformed them all. And now it is a very wonderful...

Prabhupāda: The Ramakrishna Mission man came to see me. He said that "You dress like American. Otherwise, nobody will take you as important."

Acyutānanda: Nikhilananda...

Prabhupāda: "And I don't want to be important. I have no dress. If you pay for it, I can dress. I have no money. I know how to dress as a European. As business man, I was doing that. But not this shabby dress. You must give me four set of nice dress, (laughter) changing every alternate day. I know how to do it, but have no money."

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1976, Mayapur:

Acyutānanda: Yes, they cannot explain how the body transforms into...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Acyutānanda: ...tissue.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But explain or not explain, I am seeing practically that two things are coming out: one, the skin, where there is sensation; and where, this nail, there is no sensation. This is matter and spirit. Where there is consciousness, that is spirit. Where there is no consciousness, that is matter.

Hṛdayānanda: Very good example.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Morning Walk -- April 16, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (break) And Kṛṣṇa is saying, and they still will not believe. Therefore rascal. It is clearly said. After analyzing all this material of the kuṇape tri-dhātuke... This body is a bag of this transformation of kapha pitta vāyu, tri-dhātuke. So this is not life. That is different. Kṛṣṇa says, apareyam itas tu viddhi me. But these rascals will not believe it. Therefore rascals. Very minutely analyze with this material in the body. What is there? The air is there, the blood is there, the muscle is there, the veins are there, the bone is there, the stool is there, the urine is there—a combination of all these, is that life?

Dr. Patel: No, it is kuṇape tri-dhātuke, kuṇape.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Nobody can answer. They simply falsely argue. Therefore less intelligent. Mūḍha. If he was intelligent, then he would immediately accept the Kṛṣṇa's teachings, beginning with dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). On account of the soul, the body is changing, kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. The body is sometimes child, sometimes boy, sometimes young man, sometimes old man, sometimes diseased, sometimes healthy. All these terms are there on account of presence of the soul. If the soul is not there, then it is simply a lump of matter, and it is going to decompose into matter again, and then it will smell, either you have to throw it for being eaten by the vultures or you can bury it under some ceremony or you can burn it. Three.... What is called? Pariṇamanam. Transformations.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: What is called? Pariṇamanam. Transformations. Either as stool or as ash or as earth. Those who are burying, the bodies gradually becomes earth; those who are throwing, the vultures eat, the jackals, dogs eat and it turns into stool; and those who are burning, it turns into ashes. Three transformations. This beautiful body.

Nalinīkaṇṭha: Some people would say, "If everything is a creation of God, then why do you have such a..., why do you present this body as such a horrible thing?"

Prabhupāda: You wanted this body. Therefore you have got this body. You wanted. Just like a child asks the father, "Give me this dress." Father gives him, "All right, take this dress." You wanted a certain type of body. Just like the surfers. They want a body like fish. Therefore they are so much anxious to swim. So father will give him next body a fish.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: And milk is necessary. Therefore you are taking the last drop of it. Otherwise, what is the use of taking the last drop of milk from the cow? It is necessary. So why not let her live and supply you milk, and you can make hundreds and thousands of very nourishing palatable preparation from milk? Where is that intelligence? Milk is nothing but transformation of the blood. So instead of taking the blood, take the transformation and live nicely, like honest gentlemen. No. They are not even gentlemen. Rogues, uncivilized. If you want to take meat, you can kill some insignificant animals like hogs and dogs which have no use. You can eat them, if you at all eat. That was allowed, hogs and dogs are allowed. Because no gentleman class will take meat. It is lower class. So they were allowed, "All right, you can take hogs, śvapaca." Lower class of men, they were taking hogs and dogs. Still, they are taking. So if you want meat, you can kill these unimportant animals.

Arrival Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Rūpānuga: In four months, they have transformed this.

Prabhupāda: That's good. This wooden wall was there?

Vipina: Yes. We refinished them.

Vṛṣākapi: It was all dirty.

Prabhupāda: It was not used.

Rūpānuga: It was simply for office, like that. And the temple building was a gymnasium. It used to be a gymnasium, and we have converted the whole thing.

Vipina: That was one reason that we were very much attracted to the property. The property itself was not very beautiful when we came, but the gym was built, and we saw it as an immediate temple where we could hold kīrtana and preach. So we then made a contract and the fish bit.

Prabhupāda: Nobody was taking.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: The soul is being transferred from one body to another. Asatims caturam caiva laksams jīva jātiṣu.(?) Jāti means the form of the body. So the form of the body is already there, and the living entity is being transferred from one body to another. This is called transmigration. We have come here, not that that room developed. This room is here, that room is there, but I am transferring. Because they have no idea of soul, they are thinking that this nice room, now transform into this room or this room, transform... This is foolishness. A civil man transferred into jail—not that his civil house becomes jail. They are thinking wrongly like that, Darwin's theory. Body becoming changed. No. The different types of bodies are already there. The living entity is being transferred from one body to another. Just try to explain. So evolution you take that this apartment is better than that apartment, that apartment better than, and a living entity's going from one after another. So this is evolution. That you are now getting salary, one thousand dollar, now you get fifteen hundred dollars. So according to your qualification, you are getting.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1976, Washington D.C.:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I remember one day you retorted that. You said that "Milk is nothing but the blood of the cow transformed. And (sarcastically:) the milk is bad but the blood is good?

Rūpānuga: They scare people by saying that milk helps to create heart disease, and artery disease, like that. They frighten people with that propaganda.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Meat creates cancer of the intestines.

Rūpānuga: Actually, there have been some articles in papers lately about meat and cancer, linking meat and cancer. Prominent, prominently displayed articles.

Prabhupāda: Then why do you give milk to the children? Give him blood.

Rūpānuga: They say past a certain age...

Prabhupāda: No, no, this propaganda-milk is bad—so why from the very beginning you give milk to the children?

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Devotee: Prabhupāda, you were a chemist before, but I think you are the greatest alchemist to have taken so many leaden souls and turned them into golden Vaiṣṇavas. Perhaps you can even transform them (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa is giving us facilities to preach this cult. Everywhere we have got very, very palatial buildings to accommodate devotees. Now we have got here a very nice place, accommodate devotees. Everywhere we have got. In Bombay we are getting the best temple in India. We are spending crores of rupees, Kṛṣṇa is giving us money. So I started the business with forty rupees. That was also not American currency. They allowed me to bring forty rupees. So when I was getting off the ship I asked the captain, "I have brought these forty rupees, which will not be accepted here, so you take." At that time three books I had, the first, second and third volume. So I asked him that "You purchase. Give me some dollars." So he asked, "What is the price?" "Sixteen dollars." So he gave me twenty dollars, and I delivered them. With that twenty dollars I got out down on the land of America, and that forty rupees. So I did not know where to go, where to stay.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Dr. Sharma: Recluse. And I must tell an incident which, although I was growing up with meditation, I find the bhakti-yoga, the chanting, really fulfilling and actually making the difference. Actually making the difference. In one case, it is abstract philosophy, which is the rāja-yoga, other yogas, philosophies, and this actually makes the person transformed. Another incident occurred yesterday, when I was meditating and I wanted to ask about five different ślokas of Gītā, out of which, surprisingly, you discussed four. (laughter) This was most astounding to me.

Prabhupāda: Which one?

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Dr. Sharma: And you'll be surprised what happens. I'm a hard-core scientist, and to me, it's a transformation, absolutely. I'll read your book and you read the transformation. I'm sure you'll get ahead much quicker than me.

Bill Sauer: I've talked to your people, and I think there's pretty much agreement on the fundamental philosophical concept.

Dr. Sharma: There's something magnetic about it, something creative which comes from inside.

Prabhupāda: Where is our scientist?

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: Ninety-three, I see. Since then there has been a lot of interest in this country in Indian philosophy. Recent gurus have come, they have talked about meditation. My own view is that all of these things have influenced the American people, but in a kind of intellectual fad, a kind of fashion. And it seems to me that your intention and aim is not merely to cater to the mind, cater to reason, cater to the intellect, but to effect a kind of transformation of man himself. Is this why you have introduced a whole way of living, a whole way of life, is it? Am I right in suggesting that?

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is a different platform of life—a spiritual. Generally people are on the material platform, in the bodily concept of life, and the whole world is going on with that wrong conception of life. Actually, as soon as we think that we are this body, we are immediately on the platform of animal life. So in the Bhāgavata it is stated, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). Anyone who is thinking, identifying himself with this body, and similarly with other references, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ. In relation with body, we think of family, community, nationality. In this way our civilization is dog civilization.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: What is the basic? What you will know by that? Biology is going on, whether you study or not study. You are eating, it is transforming into blood, everyone knows. And how he's transforming into blood? What is the use?

Jyotirmāyī: You were saying they should learn geography and history, just for general knowledge.

Prabhupāda: That is because you have to go from America to India. You must know. (laughter) You have to calculate two plus two equal to four, a little mathematics. But this biology and this "logy," they are useless. There is no necessity. What you'll gain by understanding biology? Even one who knows biology, the medical man, he gives a tablet, "Perhaps it may help you." "Perhaps." He's not sure. So what is the use? First of all, he'll take one ounce of blood from you, and they send, this station, that station, now making a chart, then he'll give you a tablet, "Perhaps it may help." This is going on. Even the biggest pathologist, medical man, cannot guarantee that whatever medicine... (break)

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So many big, big scientists, they are trying to understand what is the constitution, how this universe is made, how it is created. Nobody knows, but He knows. Just like you have got this body, I have got this body, but we do not know everything of this body. I do not know how many hairs are there. Is it not? So, so many things. I am eating, and it is transformed into blood, and it is directed towards brain, towards other parts of the body and we are working very strong, but we do not know how things are happening. Although I am claiming I am this body, I am my body. But God knows every particular, any... anvayād itarataḥ. How the stone is made, He knows. How this flower is colored, He knows. That is called wise, wisdom. Vedāhaṁ samatītāni (BG 7.26). He knows. That is God. He is the possessor of all wealth, all knowledge, all beauty, all strength, all influence. In this way you have to understand God.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Salt is sodium chloride. So from sodium chloride, the sodium silicate. So cover(?) of the sea they can solidify by the sodium silicate. But underneath there is water. Just like our, this skin, bone, coming from where? We are eating liquid and or some vegetables or some whatever, they are becoming liquidified. And first transformation is blood. Blood is liquid, and from blood everything is coming. The muscle is coming, the bone is coming. The more the liquid portion becomes solidified by air, gas, then these things coming. The formation of this body beginning the liquid semina, liquid ovum, mix together. From liquid. Then they form pealike solid thing, from that liquid. And then the body forms. Wherefrom the solid body forms? The man injects liquid. Liquid inject, everything is coming. So wherefrom the solid molecules? By chemical composition the body forms, from liquid to solid. So as soon as you see some solid thing, you must know that it has come from liquid.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Ali: During this transformation, are we still ignorant? During this transformation from body to body.

Prabhupāda: No, he's not ignorant. This body, next body is achieved according to the consciousness. At the time of, if you are thinking of something to which you are very much attached, then you get that similar body. If you are thinking of your pet dog, then you get the dog's body. And if you are thinking of Kṛṣṇa, God, then you'll get the body like Kṛṣṇa. That will be decided at the time of your death. Because at the time of death you'll be absorbed with thinking which you have done throughout the whole life. Sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ (BG 8.6). Just like the whole day you are working with some business, at night also dreaming that, subtle body. So you have to train up yourself within this life how to think of Kṛṣṇa. Then there is chance of thinking of Kṛṣṇa at the time of death and go back to home. It is not difficult. Very easy.

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Guest: Virus. (Bengali) Now we know even the inanimate is animate, but by biology only it is changing. All the unanimate subject is slowly being transformed into animate. We are all convinced the whole process is the same. It's a terrific science now, biology. Latest, we have discovered. I am also working on biology quite a bit for all the virus disease and all. And we can eliminate them by only vacuum. My whole cure, they call it miracle and all is nonsense, it is only creating a vacuum which automatically takes away.

Prabhupāda: This biology will be complete...

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Guest: Same thing, no? Everything has light. Only it is in transformation by that formula it is inanimate to animate. That is what is happening all around us.

Prabhupāda: So, if from... Just like medical science... It is also a medical science. Bhavauṣadhi. It is... auṣadhi means medical science. This is bhavauṣadhi. By this treatment one becomes relieved from the material disease. Bhavauṣadhi. Bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt. But the medicine is so nice that it is pleasing to the ears and to the heart. The medicine pleasing to the ear? What is that.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ah! Tamasa... "Don't remain in the darkness; come to the light." So this is the Vedic injunction. But we don't take advantage of the instruction. We think that "If I can make one table from a ordinary wooden plank, that is advancement." This is technology. This nice polished table is a transformation of the crude wooden plank. So if a crude wooden plank is transferred into nice table, we see: "Oh, this is advancement." What is actual benefit? I can do without this table. But we have taken: "This is advancement. Transforming the form of an element into another, that is advancement." So asate vilāsa. This is asat, this wood, either in crude form or in transferred form. So I am taking credit because a crude wood has been turned into a table. So that is my vilāsa. So sat saṅga chāḍi kāinu asate vilāsa. So I am now bound up.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Apart from Bible, I am speaking from practical point of view. What is milk? Milk is blood. If the mother is unhealthy, anemic, you cannot keep. It dries away.(?) Milk is transformed from the blood. That's a fact. Now our cows in New Vrindaban, they are supplying more milk than in other farms. So you do not know how to utilize blood. You are so uncivilized. And you are claiming to be civilized. You are untouchable. You do not know what is the... Yes, in our New Vrindaban the men from other farms, they come. They are surprised. "Milk can give, this much?"(?) You know that? They are uncivilized, cutthroat. And therefore they are now eating better. You are not civilized. Don't talk of anything. First of all be civilized. Give up sin, sinful activities. Then come to understand what is God.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That is wanted. And these rascals, they are artificially printing paper as money. And I am a rascal; I'm demanding more because I have got customer.

Rāmeśvara: The difference between Vedic culture and..., the Kṛṣṇa conscious culture and the modern culture is very, very dramatic, very big difference. So the transforming of society...

Prabhupāda: And besides that, if we concentrate in farm project there will be no need of exchange, because I'll be satisfied with my products. That's all. There is no need of exchange. Whatever I need, I get in my farm.

Rāmeśvara: Weaving, cloth.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: Such a dramatic transformation of society.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Whatever it may be... We should be satisfied locally by our food, by our cloth, by our milk. That's all. Let the whole world go to hell. We don't care. If you want to save yourself also, you do this. Here is an example. If you want artificial life, city life, and hellish life, you do. But we shall live like this. This is the ideal life.

Hari-śauri: But still, we're going out to attract people to come to our life-style.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hari-śauri: We're still going out to attract people to come and live like us.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: But since the rest of the world is going on like that, then to transform it, it's very...

Prabhupāda: No, we say, "You are embarrassed. You come to us. Live with us. You get your food, and whatever service you can do, that's all right. Come here." That's all. We'll send in one of our farms or in temple. Let him be trained up. And if he is actually serious, then have engagement. There is no difficulty. "And if you want that 'I shall work in this way,' that is not possible. You have to work in our way." Then there is unlimited opportunity.

Hari-śauri: You want that verse?

Prabhupāda: Niyata.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's plan.

Rāmeśvara: ...effect. By just your coming to America, the whole place is transformed. Sometimes we think that when you look at these dates that Lord Caitanya came to the world, it coincides with a period in the Western world called the Renaissance. During this period of the Renaissance there was the highest development of art and literature and so many other cultural things. So we sometimes wonder there must be some...

Prabhupāda: Does it mean that before that, the Europeans were uncivilized?

Rāmeśvara: They were, actually considered themselves to be in the Dark Ages. They call it the Dark Ages. And then, all of a sudden, there was what they call the Renaissance, where man's intelligence became greater, expanded. He became interested in finer things.

Prabhupāda: Not man, but the Westerners.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This is verse of Bhagavad-gītā, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). You cannot violate the laws of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You are strictly under the obligation, or laws of nature. Why you are talking nonsense? This should be... And under the strict laws of nature—you are eternal—simply you are suffering while transforming this body or transmigrating your soul over... And it is so risky that today you are human being; tomorrow you may be a dog, a tree. Then your life is spoiled. Today you have got so nice intelligence to deliver you from the clutches of the laws of nature, and tomorrow you may not be able. Then you are lost in the laws of nature. This is your position. So at least this institution must be there. People may take little advantage of it.

Arrival of Devotees -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Rāmeśvara: "Two and one-quarter million copies in print." They can understand that millions of people are studying this. And at the bottom of the back cover there is a review by a scholar, a professor of Humanities, Religious Studies and South Asian Studies at the University of Minnesota, which is one of the largest schools in America, Dr. Robert Tap. He says, "Kṛṣṇa has been too transforming a figure for too many people to remain confined to India or to be known only through the Bhagavad-gītā. Here we have the rounding out of His story that has proven so fruitful for Indian art, song, dance, and devotion." "...the rounding out of His story."

Rādhā-vallabha: Perfection of Yoga also has the printing quantity on the cover, "Over 2,300,000 copies in print."

Rāmeśvara: Gorgeous! Look at those pictures of Prabhupāda!

Rādhā-vallabha: We also calculated how many hardbound Bhāgavatams are in print. That's one million. And there's almost three million Gītās in print too.

Prabhupāda: So this should be displayed here.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Rāmeśvara: It is like he's being transformed.

Prabhupāda: After cursing, the body was that, but not before.

Rāmeśvara: This is like artist's license. He has just cursed him, and now his body is changing. But we wanted to show it all at the same time so that they could get the idea.

Prabhupāda: That's all right(?).

Room Conversation -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Everything was all right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sudāmā was a complete transformation.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) He played first.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really.

Prabhupāda: All of them played nice. (pause) (break) If you continue, throughout the whole year people will come.

Hari-śauri: Just like they have prasāda distribution at the weekend, they could also put a theatrical performance and kīrtana like this on the stage every week.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Do they take seriously, that "I am eternal. I do not die after the annihilation of the body. And the body will change. What I am going to do?" So this is going on, and still, they are... Gandhi is... "He is great student of Bhagavad-gītā." He is... "Tilak is a great student." "Dr. Radhakrishnan..." All rascals. All rascals. They do not understand even one line. If they study only one line, they'll be able to bring a great transforming to the... Do you think they do understand this line?

Mr. Myer: Beg your pardon?

Prabhupāda: Do you think they... Do they understand these lines? Now, if your...

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Another point is the subject matter of my conversation with you last year." He says, "You explained at that time that resin, rosin, is a by-product of crude oil, which is a transformation of earth. Since earth is one of the materials used for fashioning of mūrtis, this plastic is also suitable for the purpose. Am I understanding this correctly?" Yes, it's correct. He says, "Rosin is a by-product of crude oil, which is a transformation of earth, and earth is one of the bona fide substances."

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Some of the temple presidents are contesting the purity of the substance and are hesitant to order Deities on this account. On the other..."

Prabhupāda: No. You can do whichever is very sound and strong.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Devotee (2): He sees that the world is getting transformed by water, and...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I think that having the devotees like Jayatīrtha prabhu and Bhagavān prabhu around you will be very enthusing. I mean their... When you're around so many devotees who are giving their lives so much for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness, assisting you, it's really enthusing. The main thing is that you don't have to speak so much. It's your presence, your seeing the devotees and them seeing you. It doesn't require so much to speak. So in that sense it won't be exhausting in any way. You won't be called upon like that. It's a good climate now too, August, in London, a very good time. It's not too hot, and it's not too cool.

Prabhupāda: Los Angeles is hot.

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really high class. And serving kacuris, hot jalebis, all nice preparations. And our men, they look very, very scientific. They're wearing shirt, coat and pants. Svarūpa Dāmodara looks like a scientist now. He has transformed himself. All of them, Mādhava..., they all look, Sadāpūta and Jñāna dāsa, they all look very ...

Prabhupāda: Elegant.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very elegant. All the scientists who are attending, they're dressed a little informally. But our men are very formal. They have the ties on. Everybody has a badge. All the people who are attending have a special badge mentioning the scientific conference's name and the individual person's name. That's in one place. Then in another room is the conference room. It was the room where we were going to have the bank there. Really big room with fancy backdrop. Some decorator has come and made a very fancy backdrop with a big... There's a long table and podium with microphones and very nice seats. In the dining hall all the seats have special white linen cloths over all the chairs.

Room Conversation -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Girirāja: (whispering) "I think that in the BBT there's five, six lakhs. So why not transform it into books?"

Prabhupāda: Hindi books can be distributed all over the world.

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Similarly Gujarati, and English to Australia. Why money should be kept in the bank?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think it will be any more, now that we have your direction. You actually gave us directions about a week ago, and I think they're going to carry through on it.

Prabhupāda: Don't depend on one printer.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. And the Statesman report, it is very very...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very encouraging. This Haridāsa is transformed. You said that it was due to the mercy of a Vaiṣṇava, Girirāja.

Prabhupāda: Hm, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Remember how you said that?

Prabhupāda: Vaiṣṇava ṭhākur tomār kukkura.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Girirāja gave him his association...

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like last night, Dr. Pathak, the Dean of the College of Veterinary, said Śrīla Prabhupāda is a touchstone, can transform everybody.

Pañca-draviḍa: This change with Haridāsa is a miracle.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Bombay is the most rich city in India. And now they are willing to help us. So there will be no scarcity of money. Wherever you'll go, you'll get it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But that building, that project, is so nice, you don't have to go anywhere. They come to you and give money.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. That's Prabhupāda's mercy.

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1977, Vrndavana:

Jayapatākā: Now that your books are being printed in Hindi, in Calcutta, one of our life members, Mr. Tulsan, he got your Hindi Bhāgavatam and Caitanya-caritāmṛta, and he's begun reading, and now he said his whole life is transformed. He said that never he found anywhere that the knowledge was presented so simply and so clearly. All the paṇḍitas he could never understand. So now he's become so enthusiastic he's purchasing four rooms in Māyāpur-two for himself, and he's making two relatives purchase. And every month he comes out with his family, with the whole family. "Instead of going to other recreation," he said, "we'll go to the temple." And he brings big basket of fruit, and he comes out, and they stay for the weekend and they all attend maṅgala-ārati.

Prabhupāda: Four rooms, which side? New?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: New building or the old one?