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Trained up (Conversations, 1968 - 1975)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:

Prabhupāda: That gentleman was sitting and asking "Can I smoke?" The tongue is agitating for... "Please, please give me one cigarette. One cigarette." He became disturbed. And we said, "No. You cannot smoke." This is material pleasure. You train up your senses in such a way that it becomes addicted. It cannot get out of the entanglement. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness will save you.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. My father trained me from childhood, yes. And then I met my spiritual master in 1922, and I was initiated in... On the whole there was a background, because as I told you, 80, 90 percent people are Kṛṣṇa conscious by family-wise. You see? So we were trained up from the beginning of our life. Officially, of course, I accepted my spiritual master in 1933. Since then, I had some background, and since I met, I developed this idea. Yes.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: That we are proposing. When we open a center we shall train anyone. It doesn't matter whether he is born in a śūdra family or brāhmaṇa family. Just like they are born in a different family other than brāhmaṇa but they are now brāhmaṇa because after being trained up.

Guest (4): (Hindi) ...regard, you said that monarchy and democracy, both are systems which cannot help this cause. Then...

Prabhupāda: No, why cannot help? If... Monarchy means the king was properly trained up. Similarly, in the democracy, if people are properly trained up, then they will vote for nice men and there will be nice government. Now, because the people are not trained, they are practically asses. The votes of the asses, what has the meaning? If the majority are asses, then one ass will be elected. That's all. So when the executive head is an ass what benefit he can do to the people?

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Young men of cities, they may come to me and be trained up in the spiritual life, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (Hindi) So long you'll ask me to keep here, provided you are serious of taking training from me...

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: You get your degree. That's all right. Finish your education. If I'll be able to open a center, nice center, I shall call so many people, "Come and live with me and be trained up." I am just writing one advertisement. We shall have to publish it. Just read it.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Yamunā: Oh, ho, ho, Prabhupāda!

Haṁsadūta: "Life member can send any member of his family for being trained up as a qualified brāhmaṇa who can preach Bhagavad-gītā as it is all over the world." You're going to put this in the newspaper?

Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes.

Haṁsadūta: Oh, that will be nice. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: The story is a mouse came to a saintly person: "Sir, I am in trouble. If you kindly release me?" "What is that trouble?" "A cat, they are after me. I am always at risk of life." "So what do you want?" "You also make me a cat." "All right. You become a cat." Then again he came. "Sir, again the complaint is here." "What is that?" "Dogs are chasing me." "Then what do you want?" "I want to become a dog." "All right. You become a dog." In this way he came up to the tiger by the benediction of the... And when he became a tiger, he was... (snarling sound-laughter) Just like our Brahmānanda Prabhu. "All right. Again become mouse." You see? So these civilization is like that. They became tiger, and they are so much badly trained up that they have to become again a mouse. That is the way.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1971, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Now, they're competent. They can, not only the swamis, even the gṛhasthas, they are called dāsa adhikārī, and brahmacārīs, everyone can, whoever is initiated, he is competent to make disciples. But as a matter of etiquette they do not do so in the presence of their spiritual master. This is the etiquette. Otherwise, they are competent. They can make disciples and spread. They can recruit more members in this. They do, but they are being trained up. Just like here in this meeting, one of my disciples, he is acting as priest. It is not myself; he is acting. So some of my students, they are acting as priests, some of them are swamis, so they are competent to make disciples.

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1971, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: There is no loss. This was, I was explaining. Because this, it is spiritual science. Anything spiritual, that is eternal. It is never, I mean to say, lost, never destroyed. So whatever they have learned, that is basic for other learning. Suppose they cannot finish the total process, program, then they will get a chance, another chance to begin in the human form. So practically there is no loss. As ordinary beings, whatever they are creating in this life, after giving up this body everything is lost. But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even it is not completed, whatever they have learned, that will go with them, because it is spiritual, it will not be destroyed. But they're being trained up to finish the course and program within this life, not to wait for the next life. That is our goal.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Guest (1): Who controls, if one of the members becomes grasping, wants things for himself...?

Prabhupāda: No, what... We are therefore teaching. We are therefore teaching. Members are gradually learning how to sacrifice for God. So when he is completely trained up, he knows that nothing belongs to Him. Everything belongs to God. Therefore, whatever he possesses, it must be utilized for God's purposes. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness. We take it for granted, and that is a fact. Everything belongs to God. God, whatever God has given me for my use, so I must use it, first of all expressing my gratitude to God, "O God, You are so kind that You have given me this. So first of all you taste it. Then I'll eat." This is our philosophy.

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: We are interested in different thing. So similarly, naturally there is a division. The intelligent class of men, they like to study philosophy, they like to understand what is the ultimate goal of life, so many things. So intelligent class of men should be engaged in that business. They should not be dragged in other platform. And those who are inclined to take part in politics, administration, that class also should be trained how to rule over the country, how to make satisfied the citizens. They should be trained up, as in business people are trained up. Now the fault is without being trained, simply by votes one becomes prime minister or (indistinct). He has no training how to administer, but simply by vote, he occupies a big post. And that is his qualification. But he does not know how to rule over, how to make the people satisfied. Therefore, chaos. Daily everywhere, government is changing. Daily, weekly, this government, that government, that government. Why? Because they are not trained up how to administer. Therefore, that is required. Tejaḥ. First these administrators must be tejasī, īśvara bhava(?). (Sanskrit) Now there will be fight, and the administers will sit down on the nice couch and the common man will fight. Formerly kṣatriya came first of all.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Bob: To reduce it over the stages of your life?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Reduce it, just like a boy is trained up as a student up to twenty-five years, restricting sex life. Brahmacārī. So, some of the boys they remain naiṣṭhika-brahmacārī. He, because he's given education, so if he becomes fully conversant he doesn't like to marry. But one who has not such restraint, he's allowed to marry.

Room Conversation -- March 12, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So Rādhā-kuṇḍa Mukerjee, he has supported cow slaughter. He was given a post, made a parliament member first of all. So this poor man, five hundred rupees per month, he accepted. Then he induced that "You take more money, write like this." So if you pay money... British government's whole policy was that if the Indians are kept strict Hindus, it is next to impossible to govern them. So therefore they adopted this policy. They changed the whole policy how the Hindu will think everything mentioned in the śāstra is nonsense. They have trained up, and Nehru is the first-class trainee. Everything mentioned in the śāstra, the Arya-samaj, they also wrote Saptartha (indistinct), so many. And Dr. Radhakrishnan also. All the scholars, they would never mention any śāstra more than once within one thousand years.

Room Conversation -- June 30, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: So there will be no disappointment. (to guests:) Take more? Go on eating. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything there is. Actually that is a fact. People are so foolish. They are not trained up to understand the presence of God in everything. So we are training that status of life to perceive presence of God in everything. In everything.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: Just see how this girl is being trained. So similarly you are teaching our students, small children, we have ordinary school at Dallas, to, because these boys and girls they're having children, they're being trained up. We are creating a new generation of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Ambassador: I see.

Prabhupāda: So from the very childhood I was trained up.

Ambassador: I see.

Prabhupāda: Then it was very much adjusted after meeting my spiritual master. But the ideas were impregnated and I was trained up from my childhood. That was a great opportunity that I got a very good.... I have dedicated this book to my father.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So how long a man remains living? So long the Paramātmā is there, ātmā is there. Even the ātmā is there, if Paramātmā does not give him intelligence, he cannot work. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). God is giving me intelligence, "You put this button." Then I put this button. So ultimately Kṛṣṇa is working. Another, untrained man cannot come and work on it because there is no intelligence. And a particular man who is trained up, he can work. So these things are going on. Ultimately comes to Kṛṣṇa. What you are researching, what you are talking, that is also Kṛṣṇa is doing. Kṛṣṇa is giving you in... You, you prayed for this facility to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is giving you. Sometimes you find accidentally the experiment is successful.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests and Devotees -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi for some time, a few English words) (break) (Hindi for some time) (break) When the destiny of the people are to be controlled, there must be very, very intelligent man. That is Vedic civilization. There is standard aims and objects on which the people should be trained up. That is varṇāśrama-dharma. Viṣṇur ārādhanam. Worshiping Viṣṇu. This is the ultimate aim. So the whole society is divided into brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa—departmental—and they are trained up. But the aim is viṣṇur ārādhanam. But they have no idea at the present moment. Viṣṇur ārādhanam, he has no knowledge. But the civilization begins on this point. Human being means he's meant for viṣṇur ārādhanam. Otherwise what is the difference between dogs and human beings? The western people, they do not know. They simply think that dog lies down on the floor, on the road... "We have got nice, best apartment.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So they are vibrating harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21), and tasting Kṛṣṇa prasādam. And we are practically seeing that they are becoming delightful, living very happily, preaching all over the world. I started this movement alone in 1966, but these boys, inexperienced boys, having no spiritual training... They were trained up in their own ways, meat-eating, illicit sex, intoxication, but they gave up all these habits and delightfully they are going any part of the world and preaching this cult, and we are meeting with success. It is not that I have gone every place. It is not possible. I am old man. So I give them direction. Just like this boy. He's a gṛhastha. So husband and wife, they are organizing in Germany. We have got four, five branches in Germany.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: This is the defect. But monarchy, as it was approved by the Vedic culture, the monarchy, if the king is first-class, God conscious... A king should be like that. That is the ideal king. They are described in the Bhagavad-gītā: rājarṣi. The king should be just like saintly person, although he's king. Rājarṣi. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). And just like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira. He was rājarṣi. All the kings in those days, they were trained up in such a way that they were saintly persons, although they were the king. Not debauch. So one person, if he's authorized... Just like the communists, they are thinking of dictatorship. This is also another kind of dictatorship. But if the dictator, or the king, is a perfect man, then his dictatorship or royal power is quite... But that, that is not possible at the present moment. But at the present moment, the democracy is also not perfect. Because the mass of people, they have no perfect knowledge. By sentiment.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: They're misunderstanding. Yes. When I can get... Just like here is father. He's trained up how to preach. He's not a medical man. But he doesn't require to learn the medical science.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Just try to understand. The laborer class of men, they are required. But one who is intelligent class, he, he cannot be trained up as laborer, ordinary laborer in the factory. That is mistake. He must work according to his capacity. If he's intelligent, he must be preacher, he must be God conscious. He would educate people that "This eating, sleeping is not all. There is God. You should understand. You have got a relationship with Him. If you want to have better life next, then you must become God conscious, you must be sinless." These things are required in the society.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Mother: Well, one day you will die. Now who will translate them then? Continue the translating?

Prabhupāda: There are many. There are many. They are being trained up. There are many.

Mother: Ah, yes. So people are being trained. Ah. This is what I'm asking you.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Revatīnandana: Well, I explained that to you earlier, that we have our classes.

Prabhupāda: We are training every day.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: It is not for nothing. There is some aim. Otherwise, why government should keep such establishment, huge establishment? It is not something faith(?). They are to be given cloth and shelter and everything, the arrangement. Similarly such gigantic universal manifestation, millions and millions of living entities are there. They have to be trained up. They have to be provided with all necessities of life. This responsibility's there. And actually God is doing that. He's giving food. He's giving necessities. Why? There is some aim. The aim is that they have misused their independence.

Room Conversation -- September 1, 1973, London:

Guest: Yes. And how do you know whether you're using it for Kṛṣṇa or not?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That requires training from the Kṛṣṇa's representative, guru. Just like these boys are being trained up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So it requires little training. Just like you are mathematician. To make another student mathematician, you have to train him. You have to teach him how to calculate two plus two equal to four. It will never be five. If somebody says, "No, my calculation is two plus two equal to five." Will it be accepted?

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: So we are simply trying to revive people's dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So every sane man, every good government, everyone should come forward to help this movement. It is not a personal affair. We are not presenting that "I am avatāra, I am God." We are presenting science, philosophy. You see? Why we are taking so much trouble to write so many books? If we... We want to convince people through science, philosophy, logic, religious principle, by practical behavior. All these boys are being trained up not to have any illicit sex, not to eat meat, and not to take any intoxication up to tea, coffee, cigarette and not to indulge in gambling. They're doing that.

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Future, future of the world, because the people are trained up in the bodily consciousness of life, "I am this body." So so long people will remain in bodily consciousness of life, that is animal life. That is not human life. So they have to be educated to spiritual consciousness of life, that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul." Then they'll be benefited. Otherwise, they'll degrade more and more.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Guest (2): This is very nice.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. Simply if you can... Just like Ajāmila. He simply chanted, "Nārāyaṇa." Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. He was saved from the greatest danger. So this human form of life should be so trained up that at the time of death you can remember Kṛṣṇa, "Kṛṣṇa, now you can judge what I have done for you, and what you have done for me." Then give me that place. That's it." That... If you have worked whole life for Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is not ungrateful. He'll give you.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is the only remedy. That is the only remedy. Anyone who takes to this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, he'll be cleansed of all sinful activities and then everything will come out nice. And it is practical. It is not story. Just see, all our disciples in Europe, America, they were habituated to so many bad habits, and because they are chanting, they are now cleansed. So it is small-scale. If you propagate it large-scale, everyone will be cleansed. (break) ...disciples who were trained up from very beginning of their life: meat-eating. They are giving meat-eating.

Morning Walk -- January 5, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: ...society, Śrīla Prabhupāda, it would train up brahminical qualities. But in the people in general, how can we engage them also in Kṛṣṇa consciousness? How can we provide them a means to use their leisure time to perfect their lives?

Prabhupāda: Just chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Is it very difficult?

Prajāpati: To get them to do it is difficult.

Prabhupāda: Yes, let's call them in our temple, be practiced. Therefore our society is the most important society. We can teach people how to utilize time properly and be perfect.

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Satsvarūpa: They would say for you to see everything yourself you'd have to become a trained up scientist.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, similarly, you have to become like me also to see God. You cannot say that in my case you are authority, and your case I am not authority. How can you say? If you oblige me to accept you as authority, you must accept me also authority. Otherwise, why shall I accept you? Why you are obliging me which I do not see? So many rascals says that he has gone to moon planet, but I have not gone with you. Why shall I believe you?

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They are children. They are children. You see, they are coming from foreign countries. They are being trained up. There may be some deficiencies, but this is the scientific progress. When from śānta-rasa, one develops dāsya-rasa, wants to give some service, there is further development. Then further service, not as ordinary service, but as intimate friend. Then, as paternal, then conjugal. These are the different developments. The principle is there, śānta-rasa, but they are manifested in different stages of development.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Satsvarūpa: What would his business be at that varṇāśrama college?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is also training, to become obedient. Because people are not obedient. What are these hippies? They are not obedient. So obedience also require training. If you have no intelligence, if you cannot do anything independently, just be obedient to the other, higher three classes. That is śūdra. He must agree to abide by the orders of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriyas, vaiśya. That's all. So that nobody will be unemployed. Everyone should be trained up to sleep six to eight hours and attend meeting, chant, and ārati. And balance—he must work hard. Not that sleeping unlimitedly. There is no limit.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They are śūdras. Little arts and crafts can be trained up to the śūdras. They, at the present moment, they have given too much stress on the arts and crafts.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: As soon as I say, "There is no meat-eating," they become angry. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopayati na śamayati (?). The rascals, fools, if you give them good lessons, education, they will be angry. Prakopayati na śamayati. Payaḥ pānaṁ bhujaṅgānām (?). The snake, if you give him nice milk and banana, the result will be he will increase his poison. Payaḥ pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. But Kṛṣṇa's grace, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's grace, they are being now trained up. Now you be trained up and revise the whole edition of the western civilization, especially in America. Then a new chapter will come in. This is the program. Therefore varṇāśrama school required.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Hṛdayānanda: Oh. It's very exciting, Prabhupāda, because all the, at the present time in the...

Prabhupāda: No, the thing is that actually, at the present moment, they are śūdras or less than śūdras. They are not human beings. The whole population of the world. It doesn't matter whether it is western or eastern. That is the position. So unless they are trained up, so the society's already in chaos, and it will go on still more in chaos, chaos. It will be hell. How people will live? And these rascals are being elected as government men, and they're only making budget how to tax. So one side, there is no rain; one side, there is no rice, especially in India; and one side, heavy tax. So they'll be all confused. They have already become confused. So in the confusion state it will be very difficult to make them Kṛṣṇa conscious. Therefore preliminary help should be given.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Hṛdayānanda: Room and board and training.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This poverty. Why there is poverty? Because they are not producing food. Everyone wants so-called comfortable life. So-called education. Sitting idle in the table and chair, and talking all gossips, nonsense, and sleeping. They have been trained up in this way, śūdra.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Therefore sleeping is my only business. Sleeping means for the weak. And for the strong, perspiration. This is the sign. When a man sleeps too much, he's weak in his health. And the strong man will perspire. These are very... Balera ghāma, and the durbalera ghuma. Ghāma and ghuma. Ghuma means sleeping, and ghāma means perspiration. (break) ...principle. And human beings means trained up under principle. That is the difference between animal. The animals, they cannot take up any training. But the human being, this human form of body is meant for taking training. So if they are not properly trained up, they remain animals and the whole society in chaos and confusion. That's all. (break) ...moment, the human society's so degraded that even we are walking, this is also risky. This is also... Gradually, it is becoming. Just like in our New York... That Berkeley? Berkeley? No. Brooklyn. It is difficult to walk due to the Negroes. They immediately: "Whatever you have got, give me."

Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And I have no Indians to manage these big, big temples. Neither they are trained up. Trained up. I have trained up these American boys. They are doing nicely. But they cannot. They have taken a brahmacārī dress, and they will come with pant. And they will argue, "Why? What is the wrong there? Why should I give up pant? Why shall I have tilaka? Why shall I give up smoking?" Why, why... They will put so many "whys" that my life will be spoiled. Because they have advanced. So many rascals swamis have told them, "Yes..."

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Because woman is the embodiment.

Prabhupāda: You should be trained up.

Dr. Patel: Woman is the embodiment of māyā.

Prabhupāda: Vikāra... In spite of woman, you'll not be agitated. That training required.

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Listen, you are arguing in such a way that there will be a flash between us two.

Prabhupāda: No, no. People should be trained up in such a way that in spite of (indistinct) you should not be agitated. That is, that is.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So one must be intelligent enough to see God. Now, the bird I do not see, but I am hearing the sound. So one must know there is a nice bird. Because the varṇāśrama-dharma is lacking, nobody is being educated as a brāhmaṇa. They have lost all knowledge. Suppose in the society there is nobody educated as engineer; you don't find any engineers. So who will understand this? Unless one becomes brahminical qualified, they cannot understand. Therefore a class of men must be there, trained up as brāhmaṇa. Then the understanding of God consciousness will be there. Otherwise finished. So now this rascal civilization, they are simply creating śūdras. What they will understand? Simply śūdras. Factories and this, for technology. And because they are getting money, they are thinking, "Now we have got everything." On the money standard. Actually they have no knowledge.

Morning Walk -- April 23, 1974, Hyderabad:

Akṣayānanda: You said that everyone could become a brāhmaṇa, in your lecture, last night. But at the same time there must always be the legs of society.

Prabhupāda: Legs are already there. Everyone is now legs. So they can be promoted to become heads. What is the difficulty? Everyone is in the eighth class. Does it mean that he cannot pass MA examination? If he is trained up, he can pass M.A. exam...

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...still India's spiritual culture, that people were not trained up in the bhakti science; simply they go to the temple, "dung, dung, dung." (makes sound of bell-ringing) That's all. That has finished.

Dr. Patel: Bhakti is practiced more in south.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1974, Bombay:

Indian Devotee (5): Actually I could gather that he just talked because he also said that we should train up some devotees to do bandage and other things like that.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, no, this is not.

Bhāgavata: We do all the work, and he gets advertised as a great charitable doctor.

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for creating some first-class men. This is our ideal. Therefore we forbid them not to take meat, not to have illicit sex, not to..., because these things are accepted by the fourth-class, fifth-class men: unrestricted sex life, meat-eating, intoxication, gambling. They are not to be indulged by the first-class, second-class men, even third-class. It begins from the fourth-class men. Fourth-class, fifth-class. So if one remains to the category of the fourth-class, fifth-class man, how he can be trained up as first-class man? Therefore these things are prohibited because our aim is to create some first-class men.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: He is thinking, "I am a big dog here. Don't come." Similarly, if a man thinks, "I am a big American, I am great Englishman," then what is the difference? The dog is also thinking like that. And Vedic civilization says, "No, you are neither dog nor human being." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am spirit soul." This is Vedic civilization. One is being trained up to understand this philosophy, that "I do not belong to this, any material condition. I am Brahman part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa." Where is that conception?

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1974, Rome:

Yogeśvara: So then we should begin our rural communities like New Vrindaban, and then by training up people in the cities, we can send them gradually...

Prabhupāda: There will be no city. We don't want cities.

Bhagavān: What about our city temples?

Prabhupāda: No, no. For the time it may go on. But as we make progress, there will be no necessity. City means... For the present we have got. Because the city is there, we are there. But suppose the city is closed. We shall be there? If the city is closed, you still will be there?

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: We have started a gurukula in Dallas. Small children are being trained up. Just like formerly there was brahmacārī āśrama. (aside:) Those ladies, they have come? No? If there are any inquiries. (break) ...record?

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Just like we call the dogs. They'll come and take the milk and go away. And they'll never attack any inmates of the āśrama. He'll say, āmāra ajni hana isko bolo naya (?): "They are my men; don't harm them." Yes. Tigers can be trained up. Just like dog. They are a dog species. More ferocious, that's all. More ferocious dog. That's all. So you can train them. I have seen in the World Fair. One man has trained... I think most of you have seen. One tiger and one lion. And he was playing with that tiger, lion, just like one plays with dog. They can be trained up. They can understand also that "This man loves me. He gives me food. He's my friend." They also appreciate. Just like this picture, you have seen, Haridāsa Ṭhākura? The big snake is going. The snake also knows that "He's saintly person. He may not be disturbed. Let me go away." And from reason also, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe... (BG 18.61). Kṛṣṇa is everyone's heart. He's dictating.

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Devotee: If the senses are controlled, but his mind is contemplating sense objects, is he a pretender or is he becoming purified?

Prabhupāda: No, no. By controlling the senses, gradually the mind will be controlled. You know. In the..., the tiger and the lion trained up to play in the circus, do you know how it is done?

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: "He is equal to everyone, man, animal and everything." And mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām: (BG 18.54) "Then devotional life begins." So without self-realization, there is no question of devotional life. Or those who are engaged in devotional service, they are all... Just like these boys, my students, they are trained up how to be always in devotional service. So one who is engaged in devotional service, he is supposed to be already self-realized. Because he has understood "what I am," yes. And then he sticks to devotional service. Otherwise, he cannot. If one thinks, "I am this body," then he cannot be engaged in devotional service, or he cannot stick. He knows that "I am part and parcel of God. So my duty is to serve God." This is self-realization. And then he engages himself in devotional service.

Room Conversation -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Guest: So, bhakti is really a process of decontaminating the mind?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (indistinct) That is the real education. And all this rascal education will not help because all this education will keep you within this material body. The real relief is how to get you out of this material entanglement. Tyaktva dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). (indistinct) After giving up this material body, no more acceptance of this material body. That is real education. And Bhāgavata says pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, gurur na sa syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. There is no need of becoming father unless you train up your child to accept no more this material body. The child should be trained up by the father. The guru should train up the disciple in such a way that the disciple or the child or the student will not have to accept any more material body. (indistinct) The whole Vedic education system how to stop acceptance of material body. That is called mukti.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Madhudviṣa: No, not per se. We have our training centers where the students are trained in reading Sanskrit and studying the... Most of our education is centered around the ancient scriptures from the East. This is what our spiritual master dedicates his life to, translating these Sanskrit books. He's translated about twenty of them already. And so our centers are working in that fashion. We have a school for children where they are trained up from the time they're five years old. This is in America.

Dr. Harrap: Can you give us an indication where the centers are, where some of them are?

Madhudviṣa: The centers are all over the world. We have centers in America and centers...

Prabhupāda: We have got forty centers in America.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Dr. Harrap: Oh, yes. Yes. Even in cheeses there are probably hundreds of varieties.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. We make. We actually make. At least ten, twenty kinds of sweet preparation we make from the cheese. Therefore our, as recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. People... A class of men should be trained up for agriculture, producing food grain, and cow protection. Cow protection means you get the milk, sufficient quantity, and from milk you get so many nutritious, full of vitamin food.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1975, Hawaii:

Yaśodānandana: I think he just wants to mention that it is more difficult for people who are elderly to understand, those who are more set up in their ways.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That is the difficulty. They are trained up in such a way that it's very difficult to forget what they have learned. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says, kaumāra acaret prajñaḥ, from the very beginning of life one should learn this art of understanding Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's plan.

Room Conversation with Psychiatrist -- February 22, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: So brāhmaṇa means one who knows Brahmān, the soul. This qualification required. Just like to become a lawyer, one must be graduate. Similarly, one must have first of all be trained up as brāhmaṇa. Then he can understand what is God, what is soul. So there is no such training college. Therefore they cannot understand what is God, what is soul. That is required. Then your problems will be solved.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: Just like we are training engineer, similarly, a class of men, those who are very intelligent, they should be trained up as brāhmaṇa. They should be trained up how to speak truth any circumstance. Even to the enemy he will speak truth. This requires training, not that foolishly, a cats' and dogs' life. What is the value of this life? The modern civilization, they do not know how to live. They are simply interested in eating, and that's also any nonsense eating. But according to Vedic civilization, "This eating is first class. This eating is second class. This eating is third class. This eating is fourth class." So many things required to correct the mistaken way of civilization. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: This is required, in Bhagavad-gītā. After giving up this body no more acceptance of this material body. That is real education. And Bhāgavata says, pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, gurur na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. There is no need of becoming father unless you train up your child to accept no more this material body. The child should be trained up by the father. The guru should train up the disciple in such a way that the disciple or the child or the student will not have to accept any more this material body. That is education. And the whole Vedic education is meant for this purpose. (break) ...in his original spiritual life, that is mukti. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that—to educate people how to achieve his original consciousness. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Young man: Are human beings the only creations that can have Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means God consciousness. The cats and dogs cannot be trained up. But a human being can be trained up. Especially the Āryans, they can be trained up. They are advanced.

Young man: More advanced than other races?

Prabhupāda: By birth they are advanced. They have got intelligence. But for Kṛṣṇa consciousness everyone can be purified, even the non-Āryans. It is without any check. Ahaituky apratihatā. Apratihatā means without any material check. It is not a disqualification that one is not an Āryan, therefore he cannot understand God. No. He can also be trained up. Because it is spiritual, and we are all spiritual identities, so it is not difficult. Even one who is not spiritual at the present moment, but by training he can also become spiritual.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Servant. God is supreme, we are all subordinate. God is maintaining us just like father maintains. So it is the duty of the son to be obedient to the father, to act according to his order. Then everything is perfect. At the present moment on account of this bodily concept of life every one of us thinking nationality and duty of nation, duty of the community, duty of the family, so many duties. But actually we, being spiritual, our only duty is to serve God. We are serving; everyone is serving. That is our constitutional position, to serve. But at the present moment we are serving māyā, illusion, and we have to be trained up to serve the Supreme Being. Then our life is perfect.

Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: He knows there is suffering, but they, in order to avoid this suffering, they're taking this contraceptive method. And that is also suffering. That he does not know. Bhrun hatyā. Contraceptive method means killing the embryo. So that is also another sinful. He's taking so much responsibilities. So either you take contraceptive method or do not take contraceptive method... If you do not take, then the child is born. Then you have to take responsibility. Now they're killing the child, in this way becoming implicated. But if one is trained up to remain a rigid brahmacārī, there is no trouble.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Vānaprastha college, yes. That is the very essential thing at the present moment, that a class of men... Just like the same example: If one wants to become an engineer he must be properly trained up. If he wants to become a medical man he must be properly trained up. Similarly, if one wants to become a brāhmaṇa, then he must be properly trained up, or even if one does not want, the state should maintain a college where a real brāhmaṇa is trained up. Just like Sir Ashutosh Mukherjee, when he opened some higher studies of academic qualification, so there was one or two students, and there were three professors drawing at least twelve hundred rupees per month. So twelve hundred rupees per month, that means thirty-six hundred, expenditure, and the income is thirty-six rupees. It is not the question of money, but it is the question of culture.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: "As there are different sections of educational institutions, there must be one institution how to train up perfect brāhmaṇas with ideal characters as above mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā. If there is a section of people of ideal character, say 5 percent, the other 95 percent, by seeing their example, will follow. In other words, a section of the society must be of ideal character. That is essential."

Prabhupāda: So therefore this varṇāśrama college is very essential.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Bhāratīya samskriti. It will be very respectfully accepted. Why should we imitate them? That is... Western civilization is not brahminical culture. There is no brahminical culture. And brahminical culture is needed. That is the head. That is the brain. And a little bit of this brahminical culture, because I am distributing and they are accepting it so nicely... So in our India, in a place like Vṛndāvana, Naimisaranya, like that, many people will come, if varṇāśrama college is established. Of course, we, in India, so far I know, nobody will come to be trained up as a brāhmaṇa. They will prefer to be trained up as an electrician and not as a brāhmaṇa. Our Bon Mahārāja, he also tried for a Vaiṣṇava University. He was unsuccessful.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Governor: No, we take this electrician or engineer or an...

Prabhupāda: No, that is already being taken. There are institution where electricians are trained up and motorist, they are... They have enough.

Governor: No, what is... What is the... An electrician we get him. He is an electrician and also becoming a brāhmaṇa. An engineer...

Prabhupāda: No, no, that cannot be.

Governor: You want completely a brāhmaṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes, then there will be ideal character. That is going on. One man is claiming as brāhmaṇa, but he is doing the work of electrician. That is already going on.

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Our proposition is that "You priestly class, you must act exactly as a priest-ideal priest. You are a drunkard, you are woman-hunter, you are doing everything nonsense, and at the same time you are passing on as priest—this should be stopped." This should be stopped. The priestly class, or the brāhmaṇas, they should be trained up to become truthful, how to control mind, how to control senses, and tolerant, and very learned, knowing God also—these things are required. They should be the first-class, ideal men. Similarly, the kṣatriyas, they must be fearless; they must be very boldly, face fighting the enemies; they must have the capacity to govern nicely so that people will not have any complaint against the government. In this way they should be trained up. And the mercantile class of man, they should produce enough food grains, not motor tires. That is śūdra's business—artisans—that is śūdra. The vaiśyas' business is first to see that in the country there is enough food for eating—both for the human being and the animals.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, how can the position be reconciled if in Kṛṣṇa consciousness one of the two, the husband or the wife, wants to enjoy sense gratification, but the other does not? Should there be separation then?

Prabhupāda: No... They should be trained up. Sense enjoyment means not advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As soon as one is advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, his sense enjoyment spirit will be reduced. That is the test. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra ca (SB 11.2.42). The test is, how you are advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the proportionate diminishing of sense enjoyment. That is the test. Just like cure of the disease means diminishing the fever, temperature. This is the test.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: They have to be trained. Just like you have been trained up as geographer; similarly, a certain man can be trained up as first-class man by education.

Justin Murphy: But trained by others or trained by themselves?

Prabhupāda: No, there must be institution.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Justin Murphy: But once a man has strived for those qualities, how does he know when he's attained them? And...

Prabhupāda: No, you... Śamaḥ, śamaḥ. The first word is śamaḥ?Śamaḥ means equilibrium of the mind. One should be trained up in such a way that he is not disturbed in his mind in any circumstance. That is called śamaḥ. And damaḥ, damaḥ means controlling the senses. Naturally I find one beautiful woman I want to talk with him (her), and he (she) is other's wife. But I should: "No, why should I talk with other's wife?" This is damaḥ, controlling the senses.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Nobody is taking care. Therefore they are not in jñānam, knowledge. They are in ignorance just like cats and dogs. This is called jñānam. And the vijñānam. Vijñānam means practical application of the knowledge. That is called vijñānam, science. Scientific knowledge there is. Jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam. Āstikyam means to believe in the authority. That is called āstikyam. Just like we are speaking about this Bhagavad-gītā because it is spoken by the most supreme authority, Kṛṣṇa. To believe in the authority. You also believe in authority. But ultimately, in this way, if we acquire this qualification, then we become first-class man. So anyone can be trained up. Just like these boys. They were fourth class, fifth class. And now they are trained up to become first-class men. Just like anyone can become geographer, anyone can become engineer by proper training.

Discussion -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: They already there, four classes of men, but they should be properly trained up. Then the society will be in order. Just like this man, he is considered to be first-class man in the society. He is in charge of some department. But actually, he is fourth class. So as he is little trained up by a moment's instruction, if he agrees to be trained up, he can become. He's young man, within thirty years.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Now the material nature has gone, three modes goodness, passion and ignorance, and mixture. So we are association with the modes of material nature and according to that nature we are manufacturing our next body. This is the... So in the material world we are infecting several types of quality of the nature. Not everyone is on the same quality. Just like these boys, they are being trained up under certain quality, they're not going to the restaurant, they are not going to the liquor shop, they're not smoking, they're not eating meat, they are no illicit sex, they are being trained up, this is a quality. And another man is going to the liquor shop, to the brothel, so many other things. They're not of the same quality.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Jesuit: Take sex, how can that be considered...?

Prabhupāda: Or Christian religion also there is celibacy, life, you also trained up, the nuns, the priests, they are not meant for marrying.

Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Journalist: And what were you in India before that? Did you have a religious background?

Prabhupāda: No, no, from the very childhood we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, our family, the Vaiṣṇava family. My father and my forefathers, they are all belonged to this cult, Kṛṣṇa cult. So naturally from our childhood we were trained up in this cult.

Morning Walk -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Devotee (5): They have to come to the temple to be trained up?

Prabhupāda: Temple or no temple, you must be firmly determined. You can have God realization under this tree if you have got firm determination. Anywhere you can stay. But temple is the ordinary way, facility. If you are so, I mean to say, elevated, you may not come to temple, but ordinarily, for the neophytes, they must come to the temple. Why he does not come? Does he think that he has become very elevated? That is false. Haridāsa Ṭhākura, he was not going to the Jagannātha temple, but Jagannātha was coming to him. So if you are so strong like Haridāsa Ṭhākura, that is another thing. But if you falsely think or imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura, then you go to hell. That's all.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: People call, that is another thing. That is the defect of the modern civilization, that vox populi. The people may be asses; still, their votes are accepted. The people are trained up as the fourth-class, fifth-class men, and their votes are appre... This is the defect of the modern... They are not trained up as first-class men, and still, their votes are accepted. Therefore, even a very advanced country, America, there was mistake, Nixon. They elected him president. Then they dragged him down. That is the mistake. Yes.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: This is my policy. If I would have said, "No, you can do whatever you like, and give me some money. I shall give you mantra," then you would have seen millions. But I accept very selected disciple, not that anyone, everyone comes, and I accept disciple. No. He is first of all trained up six months. Then, when he is able to promise to follow the regulative..., then I accept. This is stricture. It is not that everyone comes, "Give me thirty-five dollars. I give you mantra, and within six months you become God." I do not do that.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Otherwise the society was divided into four classes—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. The brāhmaṇas were first-class men, ideal. But in the society there is no ideal men. One should have some example, living example, to see "Oh, here is an ideal man." So the ideal man is described here in our Bhagavad-gītā. What is the ideal? Any man can be trained up. Not cent percent, but even one percent man becomes ideal, the ninety-nine percent will see and follow. But there is no ideal man. That is the defect. So just like we are training them as ideal man, by character, by religion, by behavior, by education. That is the purpose of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And you can see practically what was their previous life and what they are now. So government should establish an institution to create ideal men. We can help. We can help.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Society... that's like your child wants to go to hell. But it is not the duty of the father to allow him to go to hell. Society want... Because the society does not know, the government does not know how to uplift the position of the human being. They do not know it. They know that the animals and we are the same. They simply loiter naked, and we are nicely dressed, that's all. Finished civilization. I remain animal, but my advancement is because I am very nicely dressed. That is the standard now. But the Vedic civilization is not. The animal must change the consciousness. He must be trained up a human being. Just that is... You say.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So, people should be trained up.

Director: Hmm. Excuse me, what do you do this (Indistinct. Talks with other devotees about something)

Prabhupāda: So immediately to solve all the problems like this is to start an institution to train four classes of men. Begin it. There is no training, how you can expect if you allow a child to smoke from the very beginning and to commit all kinds of sinful activities, how you can expect a nice gentleman when he is grown up? It is not possible. It is possible by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. But somebody may not be induced to come and join. But if you train him from the very beginning, then it is possible. Just like we have got our training school, Gurukula, in Dallas, Texas. So from the very beginning, three years, four years, five years old, children they are being trained up. It is not that cent percent men will be trained up spiritually. But even a small percentage ideal men there are in the society, at least people will think, "Oh, here is ideal." But there is no such facility. We are training, sometimes people laugh, "What is this nonsense?" They criticize.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So there, and I went there. The proprietor, the organizer, he took me there. So I think if we, if you are serious, let us combinedly open an institution where people should be trained up how to become first class. Children should be trained up. That will make a solution.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Director: Must change society then.

Prabhupāda: No, no change. Let society what it is. We train up some children as we are doing in Dallas, and some men also. Just like we have trained them. It is possible. No. This is practical example. Just like you were in a den, Morningstar.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Director: Yeah, but that's one opinion.

Prabhupāda: No. It will not depend on opinion. Opinion... What is the value of opinion if the people are all asses? There is no opinion. One should take as it is enjoined in the śāstra. No opinion. What is the use of taking opinion of an ass? So the people are trained up just like dogs and asses, then what is the use of their opinion? If you are to enforce, you must do like this. Just like when we introduced this "No illicit sex." I never cared for their opinion. The opinion... immediately there will be discussion. And what is the use of taking their opinion? It must be done.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Director: It's only now that... Didn't you say before?

Prabhupāda: Yes, the British allowed. British, very carefully, because they directly did not put hands on their culture. But underground. And when they are now trained up, now they are openly doing. But the training was by the Britishers. In gentleman's society there must be drinking. This was the introduction.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Devotee: This man, he was of a very ripe age, and still he was saying that...

Prabhupāda: Yes, the ripe age, up to the point of death one is sexually inclined. Up to the point of death. There was a minister of Agwar(?). I have told you this story? Yes. At the point of death he was looking to the young girl. That is natural. Unless one is trained up, that is natural. That is māyā's entrapping machine to keep the living entity within this material world.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: They are taking. Pañca-draviḍa Mahārāja is there. He is a sannyāsī. That is all right. You don't change your mind. You are already trained up about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so you try to become an ideal householder in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because we are not rejecting householder. We are accepting everyone. Gṛhe vā thāke hā gaurāṅga bole ḍāke. Anyone, either he remains as a sannyāsī in the forest or he remains a gṛhastha at home, if he is cultivating this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy, then he is all right. That is the verdict.

Morning Walk -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Madhudviṣa: The question was, Prabhupāda, is it possible for a person to return to the spiritual world without taking initiation from a bona fide spiritual master?

Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible. Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī said, ā dau gurv-āśrayam. First business is to accept spiritual master. Ā dau gurv-āśrayam. Who will train him? He is already fool, rascal. He must be trained up. So he must be trained up by the representative of Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Guest 1: I don't think anybody would disagree with any one of those.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So as you are training lawyer, as you are training medical man, you can train some men like that. It is possible. If you train from the childhood, it is possible. It doesn't matter from which family he is coming, but it will require, trained up. Just like you have been trained up as lawyer, it doesn't matter from which family you have... It may be lawyer's family or engineer's family. It doesn't matter. But training. So at the present moment, to make the society perfect, a class of men should be trained as it is described here. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And if the first-class men are there, people will consult them, people will follow them, the whole society will be nice.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Soldiers, they should be also trained up. They are being trained up. Kṣatriyas. Just read the kṣatriya...

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Guest 2: American soldiers.

Prabhupāda: No, whoever may be. Not that I sit down in my armchair and I give direction. The poor soldiers are fighting. No. He should go. Courage. He should personally give direction, "Do like this." Who is doing that? The minister of defense is very comfortably sitting on his chair, and the poor soldiers are fighting. That is not required. He must go first of all: "Do like this." Just like in Battle of Kurukṣetra, Arjuna is in front; the other side, Duryodhana. The real fighters, they are face to face. Soldiers are assistant. Where is that? So they should be trained up.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Brahma-karma svabhāva... this is first-class man. Śamaḥ. Śamaḥ means controlling the sense or controlling the mind. And damaḥ, controlling the sense. Now, if either you may be Hindu, Muslim, Christian... Now, if I say, "Please come here. Learn this thing, how to control the mind, how to control the senses," so who will object to it? So if anyone is trained up, it doesn't matter from which sect, which family he is coming, if he has learned how to control the mind, how control the senses, then he becomes first-class man. So we have got everything already spoken by God. If we accept it, then there is unity. But we don't accept, we manufacture something. That is the difficulty.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: So it requires the leader. Formerly the kings were saintly, rājarṣi. Therefore there was peace. You cannot expect the mass of people very intelligent. That is not possible. They are generally in darkness. They believe that "Somebody, this man, will give us protection." But the man is treacherous. He sits down on the post of giving protection, but he kills. This is going on. Therefore if the leaders become nice, Kṛṣṇa conscious, then everything will be all right. (break) These rogues, by force, by device, they all occupy the government post. Formerly, Vedic, the king was trained up very nicely by the brāhmaṇas, guided by the brāhmaṇas, and they would do nicely. (break) ...now thousands of kings. The president, the secretary, the minister, this senator, everyone is king. Because everyone is in the business of exploitation. That's all. Formerly there was one king. Now, in the name of democracy, there are thousands of kings. And the poor citizens, they have to satisfy all of them.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: ...not professional. (break) ...men can be trained up—that is possible—to play. We require professional director. Money may be spent by the movie company. And we give our men an idea. (break)

Siddha-svarūpa: ...always looking for new movies, new ideas, the companies.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Now they have been trained up. What can be done? Woman is not trained up now to become a chaste wife. That is the defect of the civilization. Formerly, woman was trained up only to become, remain faithful to his husband, that's all. Nari-rūpaṁ pati-vrataḥ: "Woman's beauty is how she is faithful to her husband." That's all. That is beauty, not personal beauty. Vidyā rūpaṁ kurupanam: "A black man or ugly man, if he is educated, that is his beauty." Kokilānāṁ svaro rūpaṁ. Kokila, the cuckoo is just like a crow, but everyone likes because his voice is so sweet. Kokilānāṁ svaro rūpaṁ vidyā rūpaṁ kurupanam nari-rūpaṁ pati-vratam. Like that, he has given a list. These are the beauty. If a woman is trained up not to talk with any other man except her husband, that is her beauty. That enhances the beauty and prestige. This is Vedic knowledge.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Sītā was stolen by him, so there was arrangement for fighting, and he did the same thing, set fire. To set fire in your home or your country, it is not good, but he did it for satisfaction of Lord Rāmacandra. So everything has its proper use when it is utilized for serving Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are living beings. We are conscious. We cannot give up anything, but we are being trained up how to utilize everything for Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So give him some prasāda.

Room Conversation -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Devotee (1): But at the same time, when we were maintaining that, we had the same problems, is that, when we presented sociological applications of the philosophy, for instance, to arrange marriages in a reasonable way, that the women not be sent out on saṅkīrtana to prostitute themselves to sell books, but be trained up to be wives, or that the brahmacārīs in the temple, someone would sit and talk with them and see how many of them want to be married and try and arrange some type of training for them, knowing that most of them are going to become married, rather than just have no training and one day find oneself married, out on the street with no occupation or training.

Prabhupāda: First of all, you are not trained up. You are sometimes becoming astrologer, sometimes this, sometimes that.

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: How they can be? They are not trained up. They are not trained up from the very beginning. For being trained up, there is another four divisions, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. These are the training divisions. So for the first-class, second-class, third-class, all the students, they are trained up as brahmacārī, student life. Brahmacārī means celibacy, live under the direction of the teacher and accept all kinds of hardship under the teacher's or spiritual master direction. Children, they can easily take it. If a child, a small child, I ask him, "My dear child, you take my shoes and keep it there," he will immediately agree. He has no sense, "Oh, he is asking me to take his shoes." He will immediately agree. Even he is very rich man's son.

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: This process encourages to remain brahmacārī, that "Don't take to sex life, it is entailed with so many difficulties. Practice to remain a brahmacārī. You'll save so much trouble." But if he is unable—the teacher sees-Then he is allowed to marry, marriage. If he is trained up brahmacārī, when he marries, he lives with wife under rules and regulation, not like cats and dogs. And then, because he had previous training, at a certain age he gives up family life. That is called vānaprastha. Pañcaśordhvam vānam vrajet.

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Yuddhe cāpalāyanam. A kṣatriya should be so trained up, when there is fight, he must come out, forward. Not that he will sit down in his secluded place and poor man will fight. No. He should come forward as leader, "Come on." That is kṣatriya quality, yuddhe cāpalāyanam. Formerly there was fight, but the leaders, they would come face to face first of all. And if the leader, one of the leader is killed-yuddha means one party must be vanquished, fight—then the war is finished. The main person, chief person is now killed, so there is no more war. So yuddhe cāpalāyanam. Those who are taking part in administration, in politics, they must be of this quality, very chivalrous, brave. They have to learn all these quality. Just like the first-class men, they are being trained up in self-controlling, controlling the mind, controlling the senses. And these second-class men, they should be trained up how to fight. Because fight will there be. We do not place this bogus idea that there will be no fight. No. Then fight will be there so long the human society is there. But what for one should fight? That training should be there.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda:

bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ
tayāpahṛta-cetasām
vyavasāyātmikā buddhiḥ
(samādhau) na vidhīyate
(BG 2.44)

Therefore too much attachment for material enjoyment is disqualification for spiritual life. So the western world is trained up for being too much attached to material enjoyment. Therefore lagging behind in spiritual life. Vedic civilization is not to encourage too much for material enjoyment. Minimize. That is Indian civilization. They, if they had money they used to spend for constructing big temple, not for residential house. Maybe the king only had a big palace.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: The answer is... Then we come to the details. So you say, "Christian," and I find to find out a Christian. I find difficulty to find out one Christian. I must frankly say, because the so-called Christians, they do not abide by the Bible's order that in the Christian's Bible it is said, "Thou shall not kill." and where is a Christian who does not kill? So this can be effective only persons who are practicing religion. So these persons, they are trained to practice. So their chanting of the holy name of God and others' are different. (break) It is not simply a rubber stamp position. It must be practiced, realized. This chanting of holy name by our men who are trained up and the same chanting by others will be different. Of course, if you... (break) ...your Hindu principle. That is secular state, not to remain callous: "Whatever you like you can do. We have no concern to see." That is not government's duty.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Mrs. Wax: The ten-year-old boys who left Gurukula and went to Vṛndāvana and then went to Māyāpur, what will they...? They will be trained in the divisions there and come back?

Prabhupāda: No, that is the ideal, mind completely controlled, senses completely controlled, truthful and simple life. In this way they will be trained up gradually. And we have got one hundred books like that. If they read all these books and if they are trained up in their character, then they will be, in future, first-class men.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: So first-class man, he knows what is Bhagavad-gītā and tries to apply the teachings in practical life. Then you become first-class. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find first-class eating, first-class life, second-class eating, second-class life, third-class... Everything is there. So people should be trained up. Economic question? That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). You produce food grain, anna, sufficiently. So there is immense land still. Say, in America, so much land is without any utilization, in Africa, in Australia. They are not being properly utilized. People are complaining, "Overpopulation." Now countries which are overpopulated, they are not allowed to utilize the vacant land, neither people are being trained how to produce food grain. They are being trained up, technology, to produce motor tire.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Thank you, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Just see. He is being trained up. Just see how he is taking lesson. So it is possible. So from childhood, if he is trained up, then in future he will become first-class man.

Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: That has to be trained up. Just like in your country there are medical, professional men, the engineering class of men, the lawyers class of men, similarly, you can train how to become a first-class man. The training process is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Where is Bhagavad-gītā? Bring it. Śamo damaḥ titikṣa satyaṁ śaucam ārjavam. The... Just like you have got formula how to train medical man, how to train in the mechanical man, or different department of knowledge, similarly, you can train how to become first-class man. How to become second-class man. The direction are already there. You can take advantage of the direction and train people as first-class, second-class, third-class.

Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Reporter (2): Once a person is trained in one of the classes, can he move to another class once he's been trained as, say, a third-class man?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Any class man, you can train him. It requires training. Even one is in the last-class, fourth-class, fifth-class, sixth-class, if he likes he can be trained up to become a first-class man.

Morning Walk -- July 10, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: This is psychology. If woman is chaste, even though she is not very beautiful, she will be liked by the husband. So train them in that way: very chaste, faithful wife and knows how to cook very nicely. Other qualification, even they haven't, that's all right. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness is being trained up. Then there will be no difficulty. And boys should be first-class man. Then our Gurukula will be successful.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Religion means primarily to know God and love Him. That is religion. And nobody knows God, and what to speak of loving Him? Nobody is trained up how to know God and how to love Him. They are satisfied by going to the church: "O God, give us our daily bread." That also not everyone goes. So the Communist says that "You don't go to the church. Bread we shall supply." So poor innocent persons, they get bread elsewhere, so they do not go to church. But nobody is serious to understand what is God and how to love Him. Nobody is serious.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: So we are trying to introduce that, that without first-class man, the society is useless. So there are first-class men. You train up. Just like a boy is intelligent; still, he requires training in the school, college. Then he maintains his first-class brain, first-class position. So there is first-class man. Now we have to train them properly how to become controller of the mind, how to become controller of the senses, how to become truthful, how to become cleansed internally, externally, how to become full of knowledge, how to try to apply the knowledge in practical life, how to become God conscious. This training is... A first-class man can take up, just like they are taking, all these boys. They had their first-class brain, and now they are being trained up.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: A man who is first-class trained up to become a brāhmaṇa, we accept him. It doesn't matter whether he is India or Europe or America. It doesn't matter. We are trying to introduce this system. That is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā. Caste system means a man is born in a brāhmaṇa family, and if by habit he is fifth-class man, and he is accepted first-class man on account of birth. Similarly, a person, very intelligent, he can be adaptable to all first-class habit, but because he is born in a śūdra family, he is śūdra. We want to stop this nonsense. We are picking up first-class brain and training up how to become first-class men. This is our business, not that introducing this rubbish thing. No, we are not introducing. Otherwise how I am offering them sacred thread? Now just see. Anyone from India, he will understand he is a first-class brāhmaṇa. We are training like that.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Every senses. If you want to see something, you must be trained up how to see. Like a scientist is seeing something through the microscope, and you want to see with naked eyes. How it is possible to see? You must adopt the process to see. Then you can see everything.

Woman: I have just one more question, and that is also from an outsider's point of view. It appears to me that one of the most difficult aspects of Kṛṣṇa consciousness for someone to accept who's been brought up outside of that point of view is the Deities and the idea that they represent Kṛṣṇa. Could you talk a little bit about that?

Prabhupāda: Yes. At the present moment, because you are not trained up to see Kṛṣṇa, so Kṛṣṇa kindly appears before you as you can see. You can see wood, stone. You cannot see what is spirit. Even you don't see yourself. You are thinking, "I am this body." But you are spirit soul. You are seeing your father and mother daily, and when the father or mother dies, you cry.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: So women should be trained up to be very faithful and chaste. Then the life will be very happy. That is the only education for woman. And man should be educated how to become first-class man, a brāhmaṇa. Then the whole atmosphere will be very happy. The man, first-class man, brāhmaṇa, śamo damaḥ titikṣa, and woman, very faithful to such husband and chaste. Then the home is happy. And Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says another place, dampatyoḥ kalaho nāsti tatra śrīḥ svayam āgataḥ. "If there is no fight and disagreement between husband and wife, in that home the goddess of fortune automatically comes." They haven't got to search out where is goddess of fortune. She will come automatically. So that is now lacking. In most cases the husband and wife does not agree.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Sandy Nixon: God conscious president.

Prabhupāda: Yes, if you train people to become God conscious, then naturally president will come, God conscious. If you train people like hogs and dogs, then the president will be hogs and dogs because it is democracy. (laughter) Therefore we have taken the task to train people how to become godly. Then naturally the president will come godly. If people decide that "We shall not cast our vote to any man who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious," then the Kṛṣṇa conscious man will come. But people are not trained up. They are fools, so they elect another fool, big fool. That's all. How you can be happy? Just like in the forest the small animals like cats and dogs and asses, they are very much afraid of the lion, tiger.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Just like Kṛṣṇa. He wanted Yudhiṣṭhira must be the king. Because king is supposed to be God's representative, how to rule over, not that these cats and dogs will find out a lion and vote him to the chair. That is not the process. Your modern process is that the electors, they are not trained up, and they elect another big animal to become the president. Therefore it is failure. All over the world this is going on. This so-called democracy... Unless people are very much trained up, the election by the mass is not very good. Rather, a first-class men, they should nominate that "This man should be president." That will be nice. Your question was "How to find out president, good"? So this is the process.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: So this instruction is strīṣu duṣṭāsu: "When women become polluted, there is unwanted population." That is coming all over the world, the hippies. Therefore the first thing is how to train up women not to become polluted. This is the way of... In the modern society they have given women freedom. That I have already explained. In the name of freedom of woman, they are being exploited. Everything is there: social, religious, political, cultural, educational. We have to accept that course. Then everything will be all right. If you don't accept, then you have to suffer problems.

Press Conference -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Reporter (2): Are you attempting to form a college?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is my next attempt, that we shall educate according to classification. First-class, second-class, third-class, up to fourth-class. And then fifth-class, sixth-class, that is automatically there. So first-class men, there must be, at least in the society, an ideal class of men, and that is one who is trained up for controlling the mind, controlling the senses, very clean, truthful, tolerant, simplicity, full of knowledge, practical application of knowledge in life and full faith in God. This is first-class man.

Press Conference -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: And what is the benefit of remaining with the parents to become hippies? For training. We are trying to train first-class men. So if, from the very beginning of life, one is trained... That is the Vedic civilization. Kaumāraṁ ācaret prajño dharmān bhāgavatān iha. "One should be trained up to become God conscious from the very beginning of life," kaumāra. Kaumāra means after five years. Up to five years the children may have all freedom. Whatever he likes, he may do. But when he is five years old, he must be under training. That is the old system. Gurukula means to send the boy, especially boy, not the girl, to be trained up at the place of the spiritual master or teacher.

Press Conference -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Bahulāśva: Montesori school.

Prabhupāda: Yes, the small children are trained up. It is something like that.

Bhaktadāsa: I think you've answered this question, but he wants to know how will Kṛṣṇa consciousness affect all the religions and politics of the world at this time.

Prabhupāda: The thing is that any system you take, without God consciousness it is zero. Just like hundreds and thousands of zeros, if you put together, the value is zero. But if you put one, the value increases immediately. That one is God. So either in politics or in sociology or philosophy, religion, everywhere, if there is no God sense, it is all zero. That is going on.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: The small children, they are taking care very nicely of the cows. After all, it is animal. The small child has got a stick, and he has been trained up how to allow them to graze. They have done. So according to Bhagavad-gītā... But that is very nice, that economic development means you produce more food grains and more milk. Then it will solve all posit... There will be no scarcity of food or happiness. Our, these Kṛṣṇa society young boys and girls, they have prepared so many nice things from milk. It is nutritious, very palatable, every..., everything. And we take food grains, fruits, milk preparation, that's all.

Walk Around Farm -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Nityānanda: Plow the fields.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is wanted. Transport, plowing fields. That is wanted. And unless our men are trained up, Kṛṣṇa conscious, they will think, "What is the use of taking care of the plows (cows)? Better go to the city, earn money and eat them." Which one? Huh? That? We shall get on?

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Satsvarūpa: Well, the other difficulty, you brought this up several years ago, was that the men who take many wives have to be very select. Otherwise men will be attracted to join our movement for sex life, having different wives.

Prabhupāda: No, no, unless our men are trained up, why you should allow to stay here and to wife. We want trained up men, not third-class picked-up. We want men who will follow the rules and regulations and fully trained up. Otherwise we don't want. We don't want ordinary karmīs and... And if he agrees to be trained up, then we'll take.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: If you don't call wife, you can have. The law allows you to keep boyfriend, girlfriend. Then the... Instead of calling "husband," call "friend." That's all. But, er, it is risky and the man must be responsible to keep... To keep more than one wife by trained-up man is not disallowed.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: Curd. So curd you can send to the city. They will convert into sandeśa, rasagullā and other preparations, and ghee. That is being done. In India the villagers, they do that. They are, keep cows. Convert them into curd or ghee, and ghee and curd sent to the city, they have got regular price for that. There is no question of waste of milk at any stage. One must know how to do it. So you can keep as many cows as possible and collect as much milk from them. You can utilize. And if some of the villagers trained up, they can open nice restaurant in the city. Utilize the ghee, curd, for making nice confectionary.

Morning Walk -- August 7, 1975, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: I can do whatever I like." The Christians are doing like that, that "Jesus Christ will suffer. We indulge in sinful activities. That's all." This is their policy. It is perhaps in our movement only that each and every individual is being trained up. Others they do not do that. "I have made a guru; then my business is finished. Now I can do whatever I like." (To dogs barking:) Hut!

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: They have to be trained up earlier and then let loose. Otherwise, you know, they create it. Because all the bad impressions are for them.

Prabhupāda: No. They'll be trained while working. Not that simply theorizing at home, no.

Dr. Patel: That's right, but I think...

Prabhupāda: They should work, and at the same time, they may fall down, just like a child tries to walk, falls down, again walks, again... Then he becomes complete.

Dr. Patel: Those thirty characteristics of a sādhu that are depicted in the, in Bhāgavata....

Prabhupāda: That is not possible in one day.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: You cannot see, but you will see if you be trained up. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Cyavana: But it is easier for us to remain here and enjoy a little bit and accept a little suffering, accept this body.

Morning Walk -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: So they are first of all trained up in that hellish planet and then they come here to suffer the same standard of life.

Morning Walk -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:

Indian: ...hemisphere or it take birth immediately afterwards?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Those who are sinful, they do not take immediately birth. They first of all trained up in the hellish planet how to suffer to become accustomed and then they are taken birth, then suffer. Just like you pass I.A.S. Then you become an assistant to the magistrate. You learn. Then you are posted as magistrate. Even if you are fit for going back to home, back to Godhead, you are first of all transferred to the universe where Kṛṣṇa is now present, and there you become accustomed. Then you go to real Vṛndāvana.

Room Conversation -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: So you have to sacrifice, especially your long hair. And if you sacrifice your hair, we can export it and get some money. (laughter) Because in Western countries they want these hairs to make wigs. Yes. So just... (Hindi) As they have been trained up to rise early in the morning, this will give you spiritual strength. If you simply becomes a gramophone speaker, then it will not be effective. Gramophone or tape record speaker, that will not be. You must be live speaker. Your living condition should be spiritually, what is called, surcharged. So that means you must be trained up how to rise early in the morning, take your bath, cleanse yourself, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Then you will be spiritually strong. When you are spiritually strong, if you speak something on spiritual subject matter, then it will be effective.

Room Conversation -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: They should be trained up, more people. Just like I went alone in Europe and America. So I have trained them. So it will depend on your training power, the more people will be attracted. If you advertise, "Come here," and if you have no power to attract them, then it will not be... You must be attractive to bring them. And that is spiritual attraction. You must behave yourself nicely. Then people will come. If you become purified, then naturally they will come. Just like if you prepare nice preparation with pure ghee, customers will be naturally attracted and they will pay and purchase. And if you prepare rubbish thing, one man may be cheated, but that will not be attraction for the general.

Morning Walk -- October 6, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: They have been trained up.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: British influence. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...appears it is very clean city.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This area is downtown, it's not so clean. Downtown is not so clean. This area is.

Prabhupāda: This is residential or industrial?

Room Conversation -- October 15, 1975, Johannesburg:

Harikeśa: Dog is man's best friend.

Prabhupāda: Yes, doglike man's. We don't keep dog. But we don't hate dog also. Let them keep their own position. In India still, they keep dog, but dog is not allowed to enter the room. No, outside. They are trained up in that way. When food is to be given, they will call, "Come on," and he will take food from outside and go away, always remain outside. Dog is never allowed to enter room or in the house. Outside compound, that's all. Still. No dog is allowed to enter the room and jump over the body of the master and sit down with the seat. No.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Take "everyone is rascal," then train them. That is wanted. Take everyone as rascal. There is no question that "Here is intelligent man, here is rascal, here is the..." No. First of all take them all rascals, and then train them. That is wanted. That is wanted now. At the present moment the whole world is full of rascals. Now, if they take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, select amongst them. Just like I am training. You are brāhmaṇa by training. So one who is prepared to be trained as brāhmaṇa, classify him in the brāhmaṇa. One is trained up as kṣatriya, classify him. In this way, cātur-varṇyaṁ māyā sṛṣ...

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Pick out. And rest, who is neither brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśya, then he is śūdra. That's all, very easy thing. If he cannot be trained up as engineer, then he remains as a common man. There is no force. This is the way of organizing society. There is no force. Śūdra is also required.

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So he is better off than the karmī.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Karmī has no knowledge, what is the aim of life, but jñānī is understanding that "I have executed material activities so long, but I have not become happy. Then what is the reason?" That is jñānī. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. "What is real life?" But because they are not trained up as bhakta, they come to the conclusion of "The impersonal Brahman is the final." That is the defect. So anyway, they are better than the karmīs.

Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But we find śūdras even amongst the European class here, even though they are in the governing position.

Prabhupāda: No, we are not speaking "Europeans, Americans, Indians." We are speaking "human being." We never say... Bhagavad-gītā never says that the Europeans should be the first-class men and Indian should be the last... It never says. That is training. Just like engineering college. The European also can become engineer, and the Indian also can become engineer. There is no discrimination. Similarly, this division of society, that the whole human society, it should be recruited and trained up... Then society will be all right. Otherwise not.

Page Title:Trained up (Conversations, 1968 - 1975)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Gopinath
Created:19 of May, 2010
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=137, Let=0
No. of Quotes:137