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Topsy-turvy (Conv and Letters)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Formerly, only the kṣatriyas were the kings. But at the present moment, because the institution of varṇāśrama-dharma is topsy-turvy, practically no more existing, everyone in this age is calculated to the śūdras. So therefore, there is struggle, who will capture the power?
Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 4.13.48 to SB 4.14.11 -- January 18, 1972, Jaipur:

Prabhupāda: There was monarchy, the kings were very responsible. Therefore, the kings were known as rājarṣi. Rājarṣi, rāja ṛṣi, rājarṣi, this is compound word. (indistinct) king supervising the administration of the state, still his character was just like a ṛṣi, (indistinct) great sage. That was the qualification of the king. Therefore... Also Vedic civilization, even up to Maharaja Parīkṣit, the government was monarchy. At the present moment, practically all monarchical state is abolished. Even there is some monarchy... Formerly... (indistinct) just like in England, the Queen, she is powerless. Actually, the Queen has no power. People have taken away the power. Here also there is the (indistinct) Jaipur. Actually, they are the owner of the state, Jaipur state, the old state, at least five hundred years old, this state. (indistinct) It is the kingdom of Maharaja Mansingh, former Mansingh, who was commander-in-chief of emperor (indistinct).

But now they have no power. The people have taken away the power. But according to Vedic civilization, this people's government is not sanctioned. Democracy. Democracy is not sanctioned. But in the Kali-yuga, nobody will be a standard king. Anybody, by hook and crook, if he captures the royal throne, he becomes king. That is predicted in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Formerly, only the kṣatriyas were the kings. But at the present moment, because the institution of varṇāśrama-dharma is topsy-turvy, practically no more existing, everyone in this age is calculated to the śūdras. So therefore, there is struggle, who will capture the power? We see practically in political field, the people are interested for capturing the power, but they are not interested... Formality. So they put their manifesto before the election, that we shall serve you in this way and that way. But because they are simply busy to keep their position in the political power...

If Bhāgavata is accepted as we accept that five thousand years ago it was written, then their whole civilization becomes topsy-turvy.
Room Conversation -- March 12, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: British government's whole policy was that if the Indians are kept strict Hindus, it is next to impossible to govern them. So therefore they adopted this policy. They changed the whole policy how the Hindu will think everything mentioned in the śāstra is nonsense. They have trained up, and Nehru is the first-class trainee. Everything mentioned in the śāstra, the Arya-samaj, they also wrote Saptartha (indistinct), so many. And Dr. Radhakrishnan also. All the scholars, they would never mention any śāstra more than once within one thousand years. That means...

Dr. Kapoor: Otherwise they would not be scholars.

Prabhupāda: No. Otherwise they will not be scholars.

Guru dāsa: At any rate, where it came from is...

Prabhupāda: Because according to Darwin's theory, your forefather was monkey. So their theory is that long before there were monkeys only. How such high philosophical thoughts could come?

Dr. Kapoor: It is true that in England there were only monkeys there. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: On this theory, all their philosophy is going on. So if they give credit that Indians were so high scholars and philosophers, then the whole theory is spoiled. Because brain is developing, and the background of brain was monkey. So how such philosophical highly moral scholarly work can be done? And this is going on. If Bhāgavata is accepted as we accept that five thousand years ago it was written, then their whole civilization becomes topsy-turvy.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

So many things changed. Again, they are now topsy-turvied. So actually, India's position is that they have lost their own culture, and they could not assimilate the western culture.
Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Actually, in India... In our childhood, we know. Every Indian felt very secure. They never expected that Britishers will go. They were so sympathetic. And now they... This is the pulse felt by that statistics officer. They are not very much satisfied with the present system of government. British administration was very much appreciated by the Indians. Even Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura appreciated. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he has written in something, somewhere, that "The Britishers also very nice because they don't interfere with the religious affairs." So as soon as they changed their views and tried to divide the Hindus and Muslims, the British Empire lost. According to Queen's declaration, the Britishers pledged that "They will not interfere with your religious affairs." Later on, for political purposes, when they interfered with this Hindu-Muslim question, then the British Empire lost.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes. But the people who rule India now have a western education mostly. The Indians who...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Perverted, converted. Just like Nehru. Nehru was western-educated. He was educated in London. But he hated everything Indian.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That was the res... Formerly, in our childhood we saw that any gentleman coming here in London and goes back to India, he no more mixes with the Indian soil. He... They were called "England-returned." So they made their own society. Then our Ram Mohan Raya, he formed a Brahmo Society. And so many things changed. Again, they are now topsy-turvied. So actually, India's position is that they have lost their own culture, and they could not assimilate the western culture. But in the western countries, if they accept this Vedic process of civilization, then they will again take it.

Nehru. He is brāhmaṇa, but what did he do as a brāhmaṇa? But he was the head of the government. Who will speak against him? Everything is topsy turvy.
Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So this is government's duty, that you are claiming that everyone should be employed, everyone should be engaged, in his own occupation. That is called svadharmeṇa idanasya(?). Sva-dharma means the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. By quality. Guṇa-karma. By quality and work. So it is the duty of the government to see that a śūdra is employed, is engaged as a śūdra, a vaiśya is employed and engaged as... Just like vaiśya. Vaiśya, it is said that kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Now the vaiśyas, they are in the share market speculating.

Reporter: Hm. There are no more vaiśyas. (laughs) Exactly.

Prabhupāda: Industrialists. Industrialists means śūdras. So if they're śūdras, why they should claim as...

Reporter: Vaiśyas.

Prabhupāda: This is government's duty. To see, "Why you are claiming vaiśya? If your industry is to produce food grains, agriculture, give protection to the cows..." So in India ten thousand cows are being killed, and the vaiśyas are big, big (indistinct), big, big zamindars. You see.

Reporter: Sitting quiet. (laughs) Yes.

Prabhupāda: Similarly brāhmaṇas. Nehru. He is brāhmaṇa, but what did he do as a brāhmaṇa? But he was the head of the government. Who will speak against him? Everything is topsy turvy.

I am accepting somebody as brāhmaṇa; then I must see that he has the quality of brāhmaṇa and he is working as a brāhmaṇa. When this was not examined, checked, anyone born in a brāhmaṇa family became a brāhmaṇa, the whole thing topsy-turvied.
Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like he is manager. He has got the qualification of manager and he is working as manager. Then he is a manager. Even if he has got the quality, if he does not work, he is not a manager. Suppose he has got the qualities, but he does not work, he sits at home, nobody will call him bank manager. He must have the qualities and he must work. Then he is. So here is guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. A brāhmaṇa or kṣatriya or vaiśya or śūdra must have the requisite quality. And at the same time he must work as such. Then he is brāhmaṇa. This is the (indistinct). But now in India they have taken: no quality, no work, still, he is brāhmaṇa. He is pulling on ṭhelā, no brāhmaṇa quality, neither work is brāhmaṇa, but still, he is paṇḍitjī. I have seen it in Calcutta. One man was pulling on ṭhelā with great difficulty, and another man is offering respect, "Paṇḍitjī, namaskāra." And he was... (Hindi) He was pulling ṭhelā. I have seen it. I have seen it in the street. You see. He is still thinking that "I am brāhmaṇa." He is working like an ass. He has no qualification. Neither he is qualified. Still, he is thinking that he is brāhmaṇa. Is it not? Yes. That is the cause of India's falldown. You work... These things should be... I am accepting somebody as brāhmaṇa; then I must see that he has the quality of brāhmaṇa, that is there, satya, śama, dama, titikṣā, and he is working as a brāhmaṇa. When this was not examined, checked, anyone born in a brāhmaṇa family became a brāhmaṇa, the whole thing topsy-turvied.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

If you do not obey the representative, authority, then there cannot be any discipline. Then everything will be topsy-turvy.
Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Harikeśa: Sometimes we have the experience of someone in authority who is obviously not following your instructions.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Harikeśa: Sometimes we have the experience, someone in authority who is obviously not following your instructions.

Prabhupāda: That you have not to judge.

Harikeśa: Ah.

Prabhupāda: You are not to judge. You should be, you should know that this man is appointed, and he gets here by spiritual process. I must follow. You cannot judge him.

Harikeśa: Oh.

Devotee: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: That is not your business, judging.

Harikeśa: Then we simply wait for further instructions from you and keep....

Prabhupāda: No further instructions.

Harikeśa: Ah.

Prabhupāda: So long he is president you must follow him. If he is wrong, that will be corrected by the spiritual master.

Harikeśa: Right.

Prabhupāda: You cannot correct him. Otherwise obedience is the first discipline. If you do not obey the representative, authority, then there cannot be any discipline. Then everything will be topsy-turvy.

Harikeśa: You would rather have us follow the temple president...

Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes.

Harikeśa: ...than to...

Prabhupāda: If he is wrong, that cannot... He will come out.

Harikeśa: Ah.

Prabhupāda: So the steps will be taken by the spiritual master. You cannot, do not try to rectify.

We want to divide the society into real first-class, second-class, third-class... They're all required, but they have got their respective positions, not topsy-turvied.
Room Conversation with Monsieur Mesman, Chief of Law House of Paris -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: At the present moment, the people in general, they are engaged in service, in factories, in big, big office, big, big establishment. So they're all śūdras, fourth-class men. And the fourth-class men select their representative. So they must be also fourth-class. Democracy means selected, I mean to..., voted, elected. So because they are being elected by the fourth-class men, the leaders are also fourth-class men. The fourth-class men cannot appreciate the first-class men. And there is lacking of second-class men. So the result is that at the present moment, the whole world is being managed by the fourth-class men. Therefore, there are so many anomalies.

Pṛthu-putra: He says this concept is against the...

Yogeśvara: "Traditional western capitalism..."

Pṛthu-putra: The traditional western capitalists.

Yogeśvara: It is against capitalism, this idea?

Prabhupāda: No. It is the movement to qualify men to their respective positions. It is an educational system to divide first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class. They all required, but at the present moment, the fourth-class man is occupying the first-class man's place. We want to divide the society into real first-class, second-class, third-class... They're all required, but they have got their respective positions, not topsy-turvied. As the, as to keep the body fit, we require the head, the hands, the belly and the legs. If we simply keep legs, it is useless.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

The bank manager in Delhi—he was my friend—that "I am afraid of this union. If I press them to do something, they will immediately topsy-turvy the whole management."
Morning Walk -- October 17, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Why is it that in the modern day good people, they don't come into public office? Good people. In previous ages there were rājarṣis, great kings, very pious kings. Why is it that only rogues are aspiring today?

Prabhupāda: Because the democracy. You will not get vote. As soon as you become honest man in the public office, nobody will be obedient to you, and it will be impossible for him to execute any... You see? The bank manager in Delhi—he was my friend—that "I am afraid of this union. If I press them to do something, they will immediately topsy-turvy the whole management." Bank manager said. "So I am afraid of the workers' union," he told me. So therefore good men, they do not go to this political post because they know they will not be able to do anything good. He will be surrounded by all rogues. Nobody will execute his order.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

If I go to work in office at this time, then so many things become topsy-turvied.
Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: If you do it very carefully, then you'll never get disease. Take simple food, neat and clean, you'll not get disease. So everything depends on eating to keep the health proper. But these things can be simplified when the life is simple. If I go to work in office at this time, then so many things become topsy-turvied. But if you depend on yourself, either as a brāhmaṇa or kṣatriya, you haven't got to depend on others, then you can do timely. Now we have to go fifty miles at least to attend office. In your country at least, this is the system. They are coming from Long Island, Liberty Island. In New York I have seen. Three, four hours to go to work. And again three, four hours to come to home. And work there eight hours. Then what is value? He's shattered. He has no other solace than wine, and he has no other culture. No family, dog friend (laughter) and television idea, that's all. What his life? Every man has got a dog friend because he has no family. Men, women, and television, engagement, I have seen it, all this, in New York.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

So many remembrances come together; it becomes topsy-turvied. Therefore we see all of a sudden: "Oh, it is done long, long ago."
Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: Here's the description of that. "The initial appearance of this luminous being and his questions are the prelude to a moment of startling intensity, during which this luminous being presents to the person a panoramic review of his life. It is obvious that this luminous being can see the individual's whole life and he doesn't need the information," but he is getting the dead man to reflect on his past life. It says that "The remembrance is extraordinarily rapid. Everything appears at once and can be taken in with one mental glance. Yet despite its rapidity, all the..."

Prabhupāda: That is happening in dream also. So many remembrances come together; it becomes topsy-turvied. Therefore we see all of a sudden: "Oh, it is done long, long ago."

Rāmeśvara: Yes. They say that the review, even though it's very quick, is incredibly vivid.

Hari-śauri: Find out where it discounts about punishment and reward.

Prabhupāda: One idea, another idea overlaps. Therefore it appears mysterious.

Rāmeśvara: Now, we're taught in the Bhāgavata that when a soul, when a living being quits his body, if he's in the human body, he's either taken by the Yamadūtas or the Viṣṇudūtas. So this description of their encountering this luminous being, it doesn't seem to fit in with the description of the Bhāgavata.

Prabhupāda: No. Luminous when they are taken by Viṣṇudūtas.

Rāmeśvara: And according to these people, this luminous being is inquiring from them how they have lived their life and is inquiring them about searching for knowledge and about developing love.

Prabhupāda: That is not... That is some imagination.

Rāmeśvara: Something imagination.

Hari-śauri: The thing is they all report having that experience.

Rāmeśvara: In any event, they all report encountering another, a luminous being, when they leave their body. Every one of them said the same thing. So if they're Christians, it describes that they were thinking that "This must be Jesus coming to save me."

Prabhupāda: That may they think. There is no harm.

Nowadays it is topsy-turvied. There is no system, Kali-yuga.
Evening Darsana -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: The brāhmaṇas were so learned at that time. Therefore brāhmaṇas were addressed as Pandita. Panditaji. Still they're addressed. Brāhmaṇas were addressed as Pandita, kṣatriyas were addressed as Thakura, vaiśyas were addressed as Mahājana, and śūdras were addressed as Chaudhuri. Yes, still. In northern India this is the etiquette.

Guest (1): But, sir, now these things are so complicated only the title indicates the caste.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Nowadays it is topsy-turvied. There is no system, Kali-yuga.

The communist is giving stress to the śūdra class, and the capitalist is giving to the belly class. And what about the head? What about the arms? And therefore topsy-turvied.
Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Every business is important. Brāhmaṇa business is important, kṣatriya... Just like the body. Head is important; the arm is important; the belly is important. They must be kept in order. Just like I am in trouble because my belly is not working. Digesting power is not good. So in spite of brain, hand, and leg, I am diseased. If any part of the society remains diseased, the whole society will suffer. Therefore they must be maintained in correct order. You cannot say if there is some trouble in the leg, "Neglect the leg. Take care of the brain." No. Brain will be taxed due to the pain in the leg. This is nature. Therefore everyone should be kept in order. Then things will go on. That is varṇāśrama. They do not know that. Sometimes they are giving stress... That communist is giving stress to the śūdra class, and the capitalist are giving to the belly class. And what about the head? What about the arms? And therefore topsy-turvied. Everything is disorder. There are two classes of men now-capitalist and communist. The communist is giving stress, "No. Simply the legs shall be taken care."

Correspondence

1968 Correspondence

Yes, actually that was the program, but Kirtanananda made everything topsy-turvy.
Letter to Hayagriva -- Los Angeles 15 January, 1968:

Your statement "I took this job out in Wilkes-Barre with intention to make enough money to be able to join you in India, because, when you and Kirtanananda left for India, I thought that you might never return to this country, and I was hoping to join the both of you there." Yes, actually that was the program, but Kirtanananda made everything topsy-turvy. After we reached Vrindaban, Kirtanananda became too much eager to return back. He was daily insisting me for his return back and once I told him that I have no money, how you can return? In reply to this, he said that he would go to the American Embassy as American citizen and take money from there and he would return. Then I was obliged to arrange for his return passage money and because he changed his program the society practically lost $1200 for his going to India and coming back again without any purpose. I thought that part of this money could be recovered if he would return to New York, stopping a few days in London to see the prospect of opening a branch there. He agreed, and I gave him letter of introduction, and required money for immediate expenses, but he had no desire to stop at London and he directly reached you. He was also very eager to take sannyasa and I awarded him the sannyasa order; and I do not know, he wanted a certificate of his sannyasa. We never took any certificate of our Spiritual Master or anyone, but he told me that it was required for facility of preaching, so I gave him the certificate, but unfortunately the whole thing was smashed by different doctrine. Now it is understood from the letter of Umapati that Kirtanananda does not believe in parampara or in the necessity of scriptural authority. He seems to feel that this is a sort of tyranny. That means, after taking sannyasa and understanding the philosophy for more than a year, he has changed the whole view, and I do not understand how you would like this recent doctrine.

1969 Correspondence

The first thing is that you must feel well. In whatever condition you should feel well, because if you fall sick, everything will be topsy-turvy.
Letter to Brahmananda -- Columbus, Ohio 15 May, 1969:

My Dear Brahmananda,

Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated May 9, 1969, and I have noted the contents carefully. The first thing is that you must feel well. In whatever condition you should feel well, because if you fall sick, everything will be topsy-turvy. And what you require to be in good health, you know better than anyone else. That is your first business, and your second business is to organize sales in the stores, because the organization of sales in stores will determine our future publications. If we cannot organize these sales, there is no use of printing books and stocking them in our store room. It would be better to hand it over to the MacMillan Company. If they will print our books to the standard of Teachings of Lord Caitanya, we do not mind if they raise the price. That is their business.

1972 Correspondence

Actually, it is the fault of the rascal leaders that the conditions in the world today are so topsy-turvy.
Letter to Amarendra -- Los Angeles 12 June, 1972:

So more and more I am urging my students to recognize the grave responsibility which is theirs for saving this fallen human society from gliding down into hell. Actually, it is the fault of the rascal leaders that the conditions in the world today are so topsy-turvy. In your country many fools elect the biggest fool to be their leader, it is like one blind man leading so many other blind men. But for the most part, the ordinary citizens of the society are innocent enough, they simply require good leaders and everything can be rectified. So it is our great responsibility to become very serious in the matter of executing Krishna Consciousness, and if we are sincere and go on expanding this movement all over the world, gradually we shall induce the leaders to accept our philosophy more and more. You are the pioneer in this matter amongst the devotees in your country, so whatever experience you have gained you may pass on to the others who may also attempt to engage in political activities. I am very thankful to you for your bold attempts, may Krishna give you His all blessings.

Of course, my authorities and so-called officers, they sometimes also order in such a way that everything becomes topsy-turvy.
Letter to Jayadharma -- Ahmedabad 13 December, 1972:

So far your question, how far should the orders of my duly appointed officers like GBC, etc., be obeyed and followed, the answer is that they must always be followed exactly as he says. Have you not heard me on this point? Why these questions are repeated again and again? This individual begging must be stopped. So many questions, it's not good at all. This question-begging is going on, even some of the important men are doing like that, that I know. So how I can say your question from here? I do not know what you are trying to do by such question. Of course, my authorities and so-called officers, they sometimes also order in such a way that everything becomes topsy-turvy. So you may write to me your grievance—what can I do?—but meanwhile you must follow him exactly whatever he says. If there is complaint, I can make adjustment later. But first of all you must without hesitation obey. It is something like the appealing to the higher court if one is not satisfied by decision of the lower court.

Page Title:Topsy-turvy (Conv and Letters)
Compiler:Labangalatika, Madhavi
Created:01 of Aug, 2009
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=12, Let=4
No. of Quotes:16