This is the process (Conversations 1968 - 1974)

Expressions researched:
"that is the process" |"this is the process"

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:

Prabhupāda: This is a rascaldom civilization. What is difficulty there? You come, sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, take nice prasādam, hear philosophy, see nice pictures, decorated Deity. What is the difficulty there? But their brain is full with rascaldom. They will go to cinema, they will go to hotel, they will go to some other thing, but they will not come to temple, or church, or anywhere where these things are being done. This is called Kali-yuga. Kali-yuga means they are so condemned that they don't take facility of the highest benefit. They have been educated. They have been trained in such a way that they don't like this. But this is their success. Bhāgavata says, saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. Vibhāgaśaḥ means sectional division. "My dear learned brāhmaṇas..." Because Suta Gosvāmī was speaking to very learned assembly of brāhmaṇas Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Because it is understandable not by ordinary class of men. But they are not disallowed. It depends on the speaker to present very nicely for their understanding. It is not, I mean to say, stopped. Nityam bhāgavata-sevaya (SB 1.2.18). This is the process.

śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ

hrdy antah-stho hy abhadrani

vidhunoti suhrt satam

(SB 1.2.17)

If you kindly come and hear about Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa will be very much pleased upon you. Anyone. Suppose if somebody is interested with you, he likes your activity, he likes to hear about your qualities, you will be also pleased with him. "Oh, this man is interested with my affairs." So śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. Kṛṣṇa is within your heart. Kṛṣṇa is within and without because He is all-pervading. It is not that He is simply without or within. He is within and without. That is all-pervading. Akhilātma-bhūtaḥ. And all-pervading does not mean that He is not in Goloka Vṛndāvana.

Room Conversation -- July 16, 1968, Montreal:

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of sitting if you don't control your attention? Then you are simply wasting time. Why do you come? That is understood. When you come to hear, that means you must hear with attention. But this is a concession, that even if you don't hear with attention, you become purified. But if you do it, it is very nice. You make progress. You get the result very quickly. So success of life is to please Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Lord, by one's occupational duty. Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ, svanuṣṭhitena dharmena. Svanuṣṭhitena dharmena saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). One should try to satisfy the Absolute Truth, Personality of Godhead. And Lord Caitanya also recommends that "You remain in your occupation. That doesn't matter. But you submissively try to hear." So we are giving this chance to the people "Please come and hear." But they are not prepared even for that thing. The age is so strong, the Kali-yuga, that it will dictate. Māyā will dictate, "Why you go there? What is there?" But actually, those who have come to us, those who are following, they are so much changed. That is a fact. They are seeing. They are hearing, "It will be." They are seeing, "It is." Still, they are not interested. Just like a class of men, they see that a person who has committed theft is arrested by police, and he is hearing that "If you commit theft, then you will be sinful or you will be caught by the laws of the state." So seeing and hearing, still he is committing theft. Why? By experience, practical experience, he is seeing that "Here is a man, committed theft. He is punished. He is going to be arrested by the police." And he has heard also that if somebody commits theft, he will be punished. So what do you want? Two things are required. Dekha śroṇa(?), seeing and hearing, for gaining knowledge. So he has got knowledge by seeing and hearing, but still... That means the heart is not clear. So this thing will be helpful for clearing the heart. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ (SB 1.2.17). Simply by legal obligation one cannot be purified. You may enact thousands of rules and regulation and laws. You cannot purify the heart of the people. Here is the process to purify the heart of the people. Therefore they should be taken advantage of. Simply by saying that "If you do this, then you'll be punished," nobody cares for that. Just like a child. The parents daily says, "My dear boy, don't do this. This is mischievous." But he does. Just like a dog, animal. Because the heart is not purified. The knowledge is not there. So this is the process for purifying the heart. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). This is the process. So one should take advantage of this process, how to purify the mind, how to purify the heart. Then you will be a perfect personality, perfect man. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. So we don't say that "You change your profession, you change your position or occupation," no.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation Including Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.1-34 Recitation & Explanation -- April 1, 1969, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Now after... This is the process. He... First of all, he offered his respect to his spiritual master, then Nārāyaṇa. Yes. Nārāyaṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Not first to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but first to the spiritual master, and then Nārāyaṇa. Yes. Just like he was asking.

Gargamuni: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Through. Nārāyaṇaṁ namaskṛtya naraṁ caiva narottamam (SB 1.2.4). Yes.

Gargamuni: Oh, that's his master.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Naraṁ caiva narottamam devīṁ sarasvatīṁ. Sarasvatī, the goddess of learning. And Vyāsam, and then Vyāsadeva, who is the master of Vedic literature. One after another. This is... Vyāsaṁ tato jayaṁ udīrayet. Then he is... He was questioned by the audience that what is the most important religion in this age? That was their question. There are many types of religious principles. So what is the best one for this age? So he is replying that question. Munayaḥ sādhu pṛṣṭo 'haṁ bhavadbhir loka-maṇgalam (SB 1.2.5). "You have put very nice question, because you have put the question that 'What is the best religion for the people of this age?' " Yat-kṛtaḥ kṛṣṇa-sampraśno yenātmā suprasīdati. "And you have, you are very much anxious to understand the activities of Lord Kṛṣṇa. It is very nice. By this discussion everyone will become actually peaceful and satisfied." So the answer, "What is the best religious principle?" He is answering. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6).

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: So chanting along with devotional service, performing our duties while concentrating on Kṛṣṇa, is also part of the process, isn't it?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anything, any way. The whole idea is manāḥ kṛṣṇe niveṣayet. Mind should be fixed up in Kṛṣṇa. That is the process. Either you go through philosophy or through arguments or through chanting. Any way. That is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ (BG 6.47). Of all kinds of yogis. In the... You might have read it. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ. I think Maharsi has translated this Bhagavad-gītā, and in the sixth chapter...? You have read it?

George Harrison: Oh, his translation of Gītā?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: Sixth chapter, he's asking.

George Harrison: Yes. I haven't read all of it. Part of it.

Prabhupāda: So in the sixth chapter, last verse, you'll find yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatena... You have got our Bhagavad-gītā As It Is here? No? How is that, you don't keep Bhagavad-gītā? You'll find it is clearly stated that all yogis, the one yogi whose mind is fixed up in Kṛṣṇa, he is first-class yogi. Yoginam api sarveṣāṁ. Sarveṣāṁ, of all yogis. There are different kinds of yogis. So yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gata: "One whose mind is fixed up in Me," or Kṛṣṇa, āntarātmanā, "within the heart," śraddhāvān, "and is devotee," and bhajate, "and serves Me, oh," sa me yuktatamo mataḥ, "he is the first-class yogi." Tama. Tama means most, supermost. Yuktatamo. Yogi, better yogi and the supermost yogi.

Discussion with Guests -- December 23, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: Then you... That is bogus. You cannot love everybody. If you love God, then you can love everybody. Because God is everything. So just like if you pour water on the root...

Guest (2): If God is everything, then why don't you, not loving one by one? Why...?

Prabhupāda: Yes. But you... That is... Just like if you love one tree, then you have to pour water on the root. Not that every leaf. If you want to maintain your body, then you have to supply foodstuff in the stomach. Not to your eyes. Not to your ear. When you get a nice cake, you don't put it here. You put it here. Why? That is the process. There are nine holes in your body. Why do you put in this hole?

Guest (2): Yes, but...

Prabhupāda: First of all answer this.

Guest (2): Well, I agree with you, but...

Prabhupāda: You have to follow the real process; then you'll get it. That is love.(?)

Guest (2): You have to go to the root but in the meantime we don't ignore everything else. I mean...

Prabhupāda: If you ignore the root and you take the leaf you simply spoil your time.

Guest (2): No, but what I wanted to say is that why can't love of the God and love of matter go and rise up to...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, if you love God, you love matter and God...

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Muhammad, he also did not believe in the Vedic literature. But according to Vedic literature, anyone who does not believe in the Vedic literature, he is nāstika. Just like the Mohammedans, they say, "Anyone who does not believe in Koran, he is kafir." The Christians say, "Anyone who does not believe in the Bible, they are heathens." That is there everywhere. Similarly, Lord Caitanya said that veda na manīyā bauddha haila nāstika. He is giving the definition because we have to follow the great personalities, great ācāryas. That is our process. We do not make any research, or we do not make any statement made by us. We simply accept the injunctions given by great ācāryas. Ācāryopāsanam. That is the process of Vedic system. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). One must approach a spiritual master and learn from him. So whatever spiritual master says, that is accepted. Sādhu guru śāstra vākya. Real evidence is, it must be stated in the scriptures, it must be explained by the spiritual master or saintly persons. That is evidence.

Guest (3): Śastra-vākya-pramāṇa.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: So what is that śāstra veda dharma?

Guest (4): Vedic dharma.

Prabhupāda: So what is that? Explain it practically.

Guest (4): Yama, niyama, samādhi, dhyāna...

Prabhupāda: No, that is the process. So what is the end of dharma?

Guest (4): Self-realization.

Prabhupāda: What is that self?

Guest (4): That is to be realized. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: This is going on. One has no idea what is dharma, what is the end, but he becomes, "Oh, I have appeared for establishing dharma." And when he is asked, "What is that dharma?" "It is to be realized." Then what you have realized that you are preaching dharma?

Guest (4): Sadācāra...

Prabhupāda: Sadācāra is the means. Sadācāra is not the end.

Guest (4): Can I know as to what made these young people want to leave the affluent present society and join this...

Prabhupāda: Because they are sincere, seeking after...

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: So tad viddhi. If you want to understand that transcendental knowledge, then you have to accept this process, praṇipāta. Praṇipāta means surrender, and surrender means there must be somebody to whom you surrender.

Guest (1): Whom you surrender, yes.

Prabhupāda: There are two, not alone. So you cannot alone think of tat knowledge. You have to surrender to somebody. That is the process.

Guest (1): There are eight kinds of getting the knowledge, means bhakti...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Bhakti is a process. Bhakti is not knowledge. That knowledge you acquire by your sense perception, and bhakti is the pure activities of the senses.

Guest (1): No, surrender means bhakti. One surrenders to...

Prabhupāda: No question of bhakti. That is the process. If you want to know about tat, then that is the process. You have to surrender. So long you will think that "I can think of, I have got power," you'll be failed.

Guest (1): That consideration of "myself, I am thinking," that is not there.

Prabhupāda: Then who is thinking?

Guest (1): Thinking means...

Prabhupāda: No, no, don't use abstract knowledge. As soon as you are thinking, you are thinking.

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: So many ways we do not know. There is some trouble, I am crying, child is crying, and the mother knows that, "He is suffering. Give..." Seeking the help of the mother. Then we are going to a school. The father is training, mother is training. Are you not born foolish? In the Bhāgavata says, abodha-jātaḥ: "born foolish." Everyone is born rascal. So if he does not take help from the authorities how he can make progress? You have become lawyer by sitting at home?

Guest (2): No, no, I take tests for many time. I look at books and I take test for one year, twelve, fourteen hours.

Prabhupāda: That is the process. So how can you deny to understand the supreme science—you can do it independently? No, that is not possible. Therefore it is the verb, the form, gacchet. It is called vidhilinga. You know Sanskrit? Yes. This form of verb is... Perhaps you also know. Gacchet, kuryat, gadyat. These are vidhilinga. Vidhilinga means that is compulsory. Is it not?

Guest (3): Yes.

Prabhupāda: He knows Sanskrit very well. Compulsory. Therefore it is said, gacchet-compulsory. Tad-vijñānārtham... Tat, the transcendental knowledge, vijñāna, that is science. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva niścayate (MU 1.2.12). Eva is niścayate. Eva means certainly. And again gacchet, "must go." Now, just like to be educated, one must be admitted in a school, must be. Now, what kind of school he has to select, that is another thing, but he must. That's a fact. Similarly, you have to accept a guru. Now, whom you will accept a guru, that is another thing. But you have to do it. That is the injunction of all śāstras. Vedic process is like that. This upanayana, the sacred thread, upanayana. Upa means near, and nayana means bringing. Anayanam, coming or going, like that, nayanam. So "to go near the spiritual master," upanayana.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Śyāmasundara: But the whole idea is that these personalities have to be in a living form, not just in the past. But they live in the form of the spiritual master who's there to guide us personally. Not just praise someone in the past. Unless this process is transmitted in a human form personally, it's not...

Prabhupāda: That is the process in the material world also. You are lawyer because you have studied law under some big lawyer. So the process is coming.

Dr. Weir: I assure you, Swami, that the reverse was true. I went to Oxford. I sat at the feet, as we would put it, of one of the most tiresome men I ever met in my life. He gave me an extraordinary distaste for law. Any law I've learnt has had to be learned the hard way by, you know, looking up statutes, looking up cases. So I regret to say, that I have my own personal experiences...

Prabhupāda: That is, that is... Of course later on, in the beginning you are a student of a lawyer.

Mensa Member: That's use of analogy because some people have gone on (indistinct) no matter who they are.

Dr. Weir: Ya, Ya. Well this is the only thing, "Seek and ye shall find, or be still and ye shall know." I think this is the essential feature that you've been saying is that, really, grace comes to anybody if they're only willing to expect it. It's inherently there.

Interview with Reporters -- November 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes, not last. Last but one. The last stage is you can not live without Kṛṣṇa.

Reporter: What do you call in Sanskrit, sir?

Prabhupāda: That is called, first of all bhāvaḥ, then prema, prema, kṛṣṇa prema. That is our high perfection. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu is speaking that "I am seeing everything vacant without Kṛṣṇa." Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me. That is the last stage of perfection. You become mad about, after Kṛṣṇa. So that will take time. This is the process. But faith is the beginning. Yes. And that faith is also explained by the author of Caitanya-caritāmṛta: śraddhā-śabde viśvāsa sudṛḍha niścaya. Faith means such faith that firm faith, sudṛḍha, niścaya, certain. Kṛṣṇa bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya. This is faith. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So faith means to believe in the word of Kṛṣṇa, that "Surrendering to Kṛṣṇa I will get everything. Now, I am free. This is my perfection." That is called faith. Kṛṣṇa said that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Now, if I say unto you that "You give up everything, come with me," unless you have got firm faith, how can you do it? That is faith. That faith has to be increased, and then it will reach to the stage of love.

Reporter: Sir, just now we are coming from the press conference of another saint, Bala Yogesvara. He said, his slogan is, "Give me love, I'll give you peace."

Prabhupāda: What?

Reporter: He wants immediate this thing. Yours, in your case, prema comes last. He says, "Give me love, I give you peace." Śānti-prema go śānti lo. (sound of siren) (discussion on siren sound)

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Man and woman. So if you want to get liberation from this material world, then that attachment should be reduced to nil. Otherwise, simply for that attachment, you'll have to take birth and rebirth, either as human being or as demigod or as an animal, as a serpent, as a bird, as a beast. You have to take birth. So this basic principle of attachment, increasing, is not our business. It is decreasing. Pravṛttir eṣā bhūtānāṁ nivṛttis tu mahā-phalam. This is the general tendency, but if one can reduce and stop it, that is first class. Therefore our Vedic system is that first of all a boy is trained as a brahmacārī, no sex life. Brahmacārī. He goes to the teacher's home. (pause—a devotee chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa over loudspeaker is very loud.) Who is this? Stop it. (break) The whole principle is, Vedic principle is, to reduce it, not to increase it. Therefore the whole system is varṇāśrama-dharma. Our, the Indian system is called varṇa and āśrama, four spiritual orders and four social orders. The social order is brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. Uh, this is spiritual order. And social order is brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, and śūdra. So under this system the regulative principles are so nice that even one has got the tendency for enjoy material life, he is so nicely molded that at last he gets liberation and goes back to home, back to Godhead. This is the process. So sex life is not required on principle, but because we are attached to that, therefore there are some regulative principles.

Room Conversation with Maharishi Impersonalists -- April 7, 1972, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: They are accepting. Wherever we go, they accept. If one is serious about understanding God, they will accept. If he is not serious, superficial, that is different thing.

Impersonalist: So this will become the next age. This is to take place in this age or this is the transition between two ages?

Prabhupāda: This is the process. By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra they will be God-realized. Just like these boys. Four years ago they did not know what is meant by Kṛṣṇa. So now they are so perfect. Of course, we cannot be perfect anyway, but they are far, far better than any Kṛṣṇa-bhakta in the world. Even Indians, they say, "Oh, they are better than us." And what is the process? Simply they are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is practical. By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra they are becoming God-realized. Even last night we had meeting with the Christian fathers. They very much appreciated. And in Boston one Christian priest issued literature, that "These boys, they are our boys. They are so mad after God, but we could not do." So this is... Why they have become so? Simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So anyone chants will get this status. This is practical. Not only... In anywhere. We have got many Chinese, many Japanese, Africans, and Canadians and Europeans, and Australia also, we have got many Australian boys. So wherever we are chanting, it is being effective. The real purpose is to realize God. So that is being done. So we have to accept the method recommended for a particular age and time. Then we become successful. (break) ...likes you? Vipada(?). No.

Upendra: These two boys, they are coming all the time and chanting, these two boys.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I have seen these boys. You are from China?

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: That madness should be for Kṛṣṇa.

Śyāmasundara: So how is that madness transferred?

Prabhupāda: By this devotional service. You practice it to love Kṛṣṇa. And then when you come to the actual stage, you will be mad after Kṛṣṇa. This is the process to bring to you..., bring you to the platform.

Śyāmasundara: No other way can replace...

Prabhupāda: Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti: (BG 18.55) by devotional service. Neither by jñāna, yoga, karma, no, that will not touch. You cannot become mad after Kṛṣṇa by any means except by this devotional service. Therefore, we are so much conservative. Because if we are actually after Kṛṣṇa, then we must accept the real method.

Devotee (2): Though we must be eager for devotional service, we still have to have this patience and determination, then create some...

Prabhupāda: Yes, because māyā is strong, sometimes you are deviated. Therefore we have to be determined.

Śyāmasundara: It seems only natural, gradually if you are all the time serving, serving, serving Kṛṣṇa, eventually...

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the only way. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ (Brs. 1.2.234). By your service, Kṛṣṇa will automatically reveal Himself. He wants service; therefore He said, "Surrender unto Me." "Surrender unto Me," not stop all activities. "Surrender unto Me." What He will say, you do. That is surrender. Just like Arjuna surrendered. So surrender means that he had to fight. That is surrender. Not that "I surrender, I do nothing." That is not surrender.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1972, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Yeah.

Martin: How can this be done?

Prabhupāda: You have to be qualified.

Martin: How can you be qualified?

Prabhupāda: This is the process going on in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. They become devotee, follow the rules and regulations, the prescribed method, you'll see God. You'll see constantly, twenty-four hours. Santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti, premāñjana cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena (Bs. 5.38). If you have developed such devotion and love for God, then you will see always God. Just like if you have got a child whom you very much love, you'll see the child always in front of you, always. It is due to love. Similarly, you have to develop love for Kṛṣṇa and you'll see Him. He can be seen by love, not by your method. He is not under any method, but He is under love. So you have to develop love and then you'll see. (aside:) There is no flavor. Is it any flavor?

Martin: It's very faint.

Devotee: Mexican incense.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Devotee: Christian incense.

Prabhupāda: So all science of God is described in Bhagavad-gītā.

Conversation with the GBC -- May 25, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: It is not the question I believe and don't believe, it is a fact. God is there—you believe or not believe—but God must be there. Your believing, not believing, it doesn't matter. If I don't believe there is no president, it does not mean there will be no president. There must be president. I do not know who is president. (indistinct) So people are in misconception that there is no God, God is dead, I am God, you are God, God is not person, so many God theories. But we have no theory, we have got a positive presentation, "Here is God." With that conviction we have to push on. So you must be prepared in that way. There will be so many questions, so many opposing elements. You have to face them by your arguments, by your knowledge. This is required. At least we must have faith in that way. We have to push on. This is the fact. We are Brahmā sampradāya, Lord Brahmā's sampradāya. So, Brahmā sampradāya, Lord Brahmā is giving. Just like last evening we were reading about Brahmā's thought. He is posing, "Yes, here is, You are God." Although He was child, "He appears to be a child, but You are God." That is Brahmā (indistinct). He is giving support on that point. So if you follow Brahmā then there is no question, here is God. And he writes in his saṁhitā,

isvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

sat-cid-ānanda vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

(Bs. 5.1)

Here is the God. And Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). Mattaḥ parataraṁ nasti. (indistinct). "There is no more superior truth than Me, I am the origin of everthing." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. Everything comes from Him. The Vedānta says, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), so Absolute Truth is there, which is the original source of everything." So, Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the original source of everything." The Vedānta says the Absolute Truth means the original source of everything. Brahmā confirms it and you must also understand (indistinct). So you must spread your conviction by your literature, by your argument, by your preaching, by facing opposing elements. That is the process. What do you think, Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja?

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: You have to learn it. You have to become student. How do you expect to learn it for nothing?

Guest (2): Learn what? Learn that there is...

Prabhupāda: That is the process, Vedic process. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet samit-pāniḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). You have to learn. Just you learn so many things from teacher, similarly, these things also you have to learn.

Guest (2): In other words, this question of there being another world, it could be actually learned. There is no belief in word in that.

Prabhupāda: It is a fact.

Guest (2): You could actually find out, experience yourself that there is another world.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. Just like you have come to America. (laughter) Yes, similarly.

Guest (2): So you are saying there is a process by which you can see the other world.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Guest (2): Does this take a whole lifetime to learn?

Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: That our senses are imperfect means, just like I have given the example, I can see the sun, but I do not see the sun perfectly. I have got the power to see the sun, but I do not know how big is the sun. That power I haven't got. In that way my senses are imperfect. So when I see the sun and hear about him from a perfect person who knows about the sun, then my knowledge becomes perfect, although I have got imperfect senses. Just like I cannot understand President Nixon by my speculation, but when President speaks about him I can understand, although I have got imperfect senses. This is the process. Imperfect in this way: that our senses cannot approach to the ultimate point by speculation.

Guest (1): Well I agree with that, but I still... The perfect person that is going to speak to me is God? Is that...

Prabhupāda: That, that we'll have to find, find later on. First of all the principle should be accepted that unless we hear from the perfect person, our knowledge is imperfect. First of all you have to agree to this point. Therefore you are going to your schools, colleges, universities, because at home who could learn everything? So why you are going to school, colleges and universities? That is not possible. Therefore the Vedic injunction is that in order to know that perfect knowledge, one has to approach the proper person, who is know as guru.

Guest (1): That's what I was getting at.

Guest (2): (aside) Could I ask a couple of questions now?

Devotee: Please. Yes.

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Prabhupāda: That is also: tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). You find out somebody who can instruct you. But you find out-praṇipāta. You surrender, not with challenge. And sevā. And then you ask him and you know it. But if you have no praṇipāta, no sevā, simply challenging spirit, you'll never know it. That is not the process. If you want to know, then you must find out somebody where you can surrender. And you must... Surrender means you must render service to him, and then you can ask him and he'll give you. Upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ. That is the process. If you are serious to know, then you find out somebody where you can surrender. Because Kṛṣṇa also wants surrender, so you have to surrender to His representative. Then you will know.

Guest (2): And can one not directly surrender to Kṛṣṇa through his own feelings and heart and...?

Prabhupāda: No. No, that is not the process. Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaches, gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ (CC Madhya 13.80). He wants to become the servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa. That is the process. If you want to know Kṛṣṇa directly it is not possible. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa says, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34)? And how you can approach Kṛṣṇa?

Guest (2): Chanting His names, surrendering to Him, feeling love for Him, doing service. Is that not or would that not take one person to...?

Prabhupāda: No, that is not the way. Kṛṣṇa says, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). You have to accept the paramparā, disciplic succession. That is a challenge, that "I don't want to surrender anyone."

Guest (2): No, not challenge... I'm not saying... I mean, I'm not...

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Prabhupāda: No, it is not possible. Kṛṣṇa accepted Himself a guru. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted a guru. They are God Himself. So how you can accept: "I can approach Kṛṣṇa without guru"? Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpā. Kṛṣṇa... When actually you want Kṛṣṇa seriously—you do not know who is guru—then Kṛṣṇa will give you a guru. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. He was advised by his mother that "If you go to the forest you can see God." So he went there. But when he was very serious, then Kṛṣṇa sent him Nārada Muni. So if you are actually serious about Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa will send you some of His representative and he will take charge of you. That is the process. If you do not find a guru, that means Kṛṣṇa is not yet pleased, either you are not serious. Just like when you become serious of studying any subject matter, you find out some college, some institution. You cannot purchase the books and read at home and become expert engineer, expert, no. That is not the process. Therefore the Vedic knowledge is called śruti. Śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet, śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). So we have to hear by paramparā system. You attend the lectures of a professor because he has heard. He has listened the same instruction from his professor. You don't go to a professor who has never gone to school and college. Do you go there? So this knowledge... As material knowledge is received by paramparā, similarly, spiritual knowledge is received also by paramparā. Kṛṣṇa says in the Fourth Chapter, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). By paramparā system. Sa kāleneha mahatā yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa: "Because the paramparā was lost, therefore the science was lost. Therefore I shall again say the same system to you." Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam: (BG 4.3) "I am trying to speak to you because you are My devotee. You are very dear friend." So similarly, one has to become a dear friend of Kṛṣṇa and devotee of Kṛṣṇa before he can understand what Kṛṣṇa says. You see? There are so many Bhagavad-gītā editions in all the countries. So many big, big scholars presented Bhagavad-gītā. There was not a single person converted to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Do you agree to this point?

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 25, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Yes, go on, read the purport.

Devotee: "Translation: Engage your mind always in thinking of Me. Offer obeisances and worship Me. Being completely absorbed in Me, surely you'll come to Me."

Prabhupāda: So this is the process. Says, "Always think of Me." (speaks Hindi to guest for some minutes) This is the translation. Read the purport. Purport.

Devotee: "Purport: In this verse it is clearly indicated that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the only means of being delivered from the clutches of this contaminated material world. Sometimes unscrupulous commentators distort the meaning of what is clearly stated here: that all devotional service should be offered to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. Unfortunately, unscrupulous commentators divert the mind of the reader to that which is not at all feasible. Such commentators do not know that there is no difference between Kṛṣṇa's mind and Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not an ordinary human being. He's Absolute Truth. His body..."

Prabhupāda: Just like Dr. Radhakrishnan. He has explained this verse... When Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, he comments, "It is not to the person Kṛṣṇa." Just see. Kṛṣṇa says man-manā, "Always think of Me." And he, out of his so-called nonsense scholarship, he says, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." (Hindi)

Guest (1) Indian man: He's impersonalist. I read that Bhagavad-gītā in school.

Room Conversation -- February 25, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Next verse.

Devotee: Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ, bhavitā na ca me tasmād anyaḥ priyataro bhuvi (BG 18.69). "There is no servant in this world more dear to Me than he. Nor will there ever be one more dear."

Prabhupāda: Those who are preachers.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: These are the (indistinct). (Hindi) If you want to be very intimately related... You're already related, but intimately... then this is the process. (Hindi) This is the real (Hindi) This is the real (Hindi) Your brother-in-law did not come? Eh? (Hindi conversation for some minutes) (end)

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they know how to go forward and come back. Who has taught them this discipline? Kṛṣṇa is there, within. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭho mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). Kṛṣṇa is dictating: "Now you go forward. Now you come back. Here is your food." He's giving intelligence. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭho mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). He's giving direction in every living entity, but when a human being, He gives direction, if he surrenders, that: "Go this way. You'll come to Me." Dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ taṁ yena mām upayānti te. And that is human intelligence. So far these lower animals are concerned, they are given, being given intelligence how to eat, how to sleep, how to mate, how to defend. But a human being, if he engages himself in the service of the Lord, then Lord will give intelligence how to come back to home, back to Godhead. This is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. That is the condition. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam (BG 10.10). "Only to those who are engaged in devotional service with love and faith, I give him intelligence how to come back to home, back to Godhead." Therefore, after coming to human form of body, we must awaken our intelligence about understanding the Supreme Lord. And if we take up the process sincerely, with love, then Lord within will give you dictation: "You come this way, come this way, come this way." Otherwise, not. The first condition is: teṣāṁ satata-yuktānām. Therefore we are trying to engage all our disciples to be engaged twenty-four hours in devotional service. Then his life will be successful. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Satata. Satata means always, constantly. Just like we are walking, but we are engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Others are walking. They're wasting time. But we are, we are walking, but, at the same time, we are engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are eating. We are engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are sleeping. We are engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are working... Always. Then Kṛṣṇa will see: "Now he's serious. Let him have some intelligence, how he can come back to home." This is the process. And the pleasure of sense gratification, oh, that is also known how to do it by the hogs and dogs. They know. The hogs are eating everything, up to stool, for sense gratification. So the human being, if they have no discrimination, they can eat anything and everything for sense grati..., they are no better than hogs. What is the difference between hog and human being? The hog has no discrimination of eating. Anything it will eat, up to stool. So if a human being becomes like hog, without any discrimination, he will eat anything, that is advancement of civilization? Advancement of becoming hog. That's all. And they like, actually. The hippies, they like hogs.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But that means that is not... Originally, it is from life. Seed is from the life. So where is your proof that matter produces life? Then you have to accept: life produces life. According to our śāstra, within the semina of the father, the living body, living entity, takes shelter. And it is injected to the mother's womb and the two matters mixes and the body forms. This is our śāstric explanation. Not that the semina discharged by the father, that is life. No. Within that semina, the living entity takes shelter. And it is put into favorable condition. Then it develops the body. This is... We, we find in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That putting of the living entity in a particular type of semina depends on higher authorities. The higher authorities will judge what kind of body this living entity, after leaving this body, will get. So by higher authority it will be directed to enter into the semina of such father, and it will be injected into the womb of the mother. Then you'll get, develop a particular type of body and come out and suffer or enjoy. This is the process.

Brahmānanda: If that semina is misused or wasted, then that disrupts the plan of the authorities.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: It's a serious matter.

Prabhupāda: Therefore this contraceptive method is sinful activity. Abortion, contraceptive method. This is against the, I mean to say, plan of the Supreme. Just like the government is making some plan, and if you spoil it, you are criminal. What is the time now?

Brahmānanda: Twenty of seven. Twenty minutes of seven.

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:

Devotee: There are many that tell about knowledge for being good, but how do you really know? Is it just a feeling?

Prabhupāda: Hmm? Hmm? Knowledge means culture. Just like we were discussing. This is the process of knowledge: inquiry from right person and take the answer. That is knowledge. Just like a child takes knowledge from his father: "Father, what is this?" He gives knowledge. So you must inquire rightly from the right person. Then you get knowledge. This is the process of knowledge.

Brahmānanda: The child also has faith.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Brahmānanda: The child also have faith in the father, that the father will give him the proper answer.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Faith or no faith. Child does not know that he has got faith, but naturally he's asking father. That is the natural source of knowledge. When you approach the right person, you may have faith or no faith, you get the right knowledge. It doesn't matter. Just like fire. If it is real fire, you touch it, it will act. You know or do not know. It doesn't matter.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Spontaneous.

Morning Walk -- April 27, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is just like you take cotton. You make thread. Another form. Then from thread, you make cotton cloth.

Brahmānanda: It's not lost.

Prabhupāda: It is not lost.

Brahmānanda: It just changes it's form.

Prabhupāda: The original cotton is there. Simply form is changing. This is the process.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Is it the same from pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya... (Iso Invocation)?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is preserved. Kārya kāraṇam, cause and effect. In the effect, the cause is there. Therefore, Veda says: sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma, everything is Brahman. Because the cosmic manifestation is the effect of the cause, energy of God. Therefore, in the effect there is God. mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā. "In impersonal form, I am existing everywhere." God says, Kṛṣṇa says. Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni (BG 9.4). "Everything is existing on Me." Na cāhaṁ teṣu ava... "But I am not there." This is the personal and impersonal features of the Lord. The whole cosmic manifestation is the impersonal, it is resting on the energy of God, but you cannot find God here. The example is just like a big businessman, he has got a big factory. The factory's depending on the energy of that man, but if you want to see that man in the factory, you cannot see. Is that example nice? You cannot say that the factory is existing without him. It is in his brain the whole factory's running on. But if you want to find out where is he, that will be difficult.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But he's there.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Paramahaṁsa: Yeah. And the devil turned to Richard Nixon and said, "It's hell keeping up with Christians."

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes, people will criticize like that. People are becoming advanced. How long you can cheat them with so-called science, so-called religion? Now you take up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement seriously. He will give real thing. Try to understand. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3). If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, everything will be known to you. This is the process. If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā—you know everything. You know everything. And that is the Vedic injunction, Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati: "By knowing Kṛṣṇa only, you know everything." That science you try to understand and preach; people will be happy. Now, our question was that we say that the man... I say man. Other living entities, they are also living entities. So in Christian religion also, they say, "The man is made after God." Is it not?

Paramahaṁsa: "In the image of God."

Prabhupāda: So man is the sample of God. So why don't you try, study nicely man, and you can know, understand God, what is God. I asked these Christian people, "If man is made after the image of God, you study very scrutinizingly a perfect human being, and you will know what is God."

Umāpati: The most ideal image of a human being is God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the Vedic injunction. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). So you take a perfect man. Just like Kṛṣṇa, you take a perfect man, take him as man, you see that He is God. He has got all the perfections. Even if you take him as a man.

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: The thing is that we want to love people, we want to help them, but if we do not know the process... The same thing, love or hate. That's it. You should know the process how to love. So our process is according to Vedic injunction, that yathā taror mūla-niṣecanena tṛpyanti tat-skandha-bhujopaśākhāḥ (SB 4.31.14). Just like if you pour water on the root of the tree, automatically the branches, the trees, everything, watered. Prāṇopahārāc ca yatendriyāṇām. If you supply food to the stomach, the energy is distributed to the hands, legs, eyes, and everywhere. This is the process. But if you take the food and separately push on in the eyes and the ears and the hands and the fingers it is useless.

Mr. Wadell: Oh yes, I agree, but...

Prabhupāda: Similarly, if you try to pour water to each leaf of the tree, it will be simply waste of time. Similarly, God is the root of everything. Our Vedānta-sūtra says, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), Absolute Truth, wherefrom everything has come. So if we love the root, God, then we can love others. Otherwise not possible. Otherwise it is simply waste of time. They have tried. The so-called humanitarian work they have tried. Unity and fraternity and so on, big, big words. But it has not come to... Because there is no love of Godhead, it has failed. Even the United Nations. Central point is missing. So our Vedic injunction is that sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje: (SB 1.2.6) "That system of religion is perfect which teaches how to love God." It doesn't matter, Christian religion, Hindu religion, Mohammedan religion, it doesn't matter. But God minus, this is the present position. Everyone wants to make minus God everything. This is going on. They have no clear idea. If I want to love you, I must have a clear idea of you. On vague idea, I cannot love. But they have no clear idea what is God. So how they can love God? And because they have failed to love God, all the so-called love, humanitarian, philanthropic works and, you know, they have become useless.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: This is going on. Therefore it is called bhava-saṁsāra, repeatedly taking birth and death in different species of life, different planets and different forms, 8,400,000 species, varieties. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva (CC Madhya 19.151), we living entities, we are wandering in this way, changing different bodies, different situations, different position and in this way wandering up and down, brahmāṇḍa bhramite, within this universe. Sometimes in the upper, heavenly planet, sometimes down in the hellish planet. Sometimes as human being, sometimes as cat, dog. Sometimes brāhmaṇa, sometimes śūdra, like that. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that the living entities are wandering like this. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite. Bhramite means wandering. Kona bhāgyavān jīva. One fortunate person, guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151), by the grace of guru and by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, one gets the seed of devotional service. Mālī hañā kare sei bīja āropaṇa (CC Madhya 19.152). And when you get a nice seed of plant, you sew it. So that seed has to be sewn within the heart. Mālī hañā kare sei bīja āropaṇa, śravaṇa-kīrtana-jale karaye secana. So if we sew the seed within the heart and water it... And the watering required. The watering is this śravaṇa-kīrtana. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). Then it grows. And in due course of time, it gives you the fruit, which is love of Godhead. Then your life is successful. This is the process. So we have to try to sew the seed of devotional service within our heart, and it has to be watered by hearing and chanting. Then gradually it will grow. This is the process. And this is open for everyone. There is no restriction.

Guest (1): And no price.

Prabhupāda: And no price also. (Hindi) Eh?

Guest (6): This morning we didn't want to disturb you to have a darśana.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. You came in the morning?

Room Conversation with Educationists -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: If you have got any question in this statement, you can ask.

Guest (1): Just, just how...?

Prabhupāda: How, that you have to learn, but this is the process.

Guest (1): That is the end product.

Prabhupāda: Hm. You learn... We have got this institution. You can come and learn how others are doing, others are learning. We have got class in the morning at seven. If you've got time, you can, you are welcome. We don't charge anything. You can come and join. There is no business. You can live with us. We don't charge anything. Or you can come and go, attend class. There is no charge. Kṛṣṇa gives us everything. Just like this house. This is two hundred thousand pounds. George Harrison has purchased it, and he has given us. Similarly, everything comes from Kṛṣṇa. None of our members go to office or factory. But we eat also, nicely.

Guest (2): Yes, but if somebody didn't go to the factory, you wouldn't, would you?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest (2): Somebody has to go and do the work to make the food, keep the country running.

Prabhupāda: No. We don't hate to work. That is not our business. If we get work, we work for Kṛṣṇa. The income comes to Kṛṣṇa. But if we don't get work, we are not bothered, that "There is no work. Where shall I eat? Where shall I sleep? Where shall I go?" No, there is no such botheration. So all the members, I think, eighty, ninety percent, they do not go to work outside.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Paś... Tac chraddadhānā munayo jñāna-vairāgya-yuktayā. Jñāna-vairāgya... Without jñāna-vairāgya you cannot make any spiritual advancement. Then?

Pradyumna: Paśyanty ātmani cātmānam...

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Pradyumna: ...bhaktyā śruta-gṛhītayā.

Prabhupāda: Bhaktyā śruta-gṛhītayā. Śruta-gṛhītayā. By hearing from authority. Śruta. Gṛhītayā. Jñāna-vairāgya-yuktayā. This is the process. Tac chraddadhānā munayo jñāna-vairāgya-yuktayā, paśyanty ātmānam ātmani, śruta-gṛhītayā, bhaktyā śruta-gṛhītayā (SB 1.2.12). This is the process.

Reporter: By devotion, by listening you receive and see the self...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Reporter: ...within the self.

Prabhupāda: Yes, within the self.

Reporter: Ātmani ātmānam. (break)

Prabhupāda: What is the purport?

Pradyumna: "The Absolute Truth is realized in full by the process of devotional service to the Lord Vāsudeva, or the Personality of Godhead..."

Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yuktaṁ vairāgyam ucyate. So everything should be done—that is called karma-yoga—in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna is doing. He did not change his position as a fighter, as a warrior. But he acted according to the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore he is recognized: bhakto 'si priyo 'si (BG 4.3). "You are My dear friend. You are My devotee." This is the process. So we have to purify. We cannot stop. That is not possible. The progress which is going on, let it go. But let it go, we do not want that, but it has come so far, it is not possible to stop it. But here is the remedy. You can purify it.

Popworth: What means do you suggest for purifying it?

Prabhupāda: The means is that... Our process is that wherever we go, we perform saṅkīrtana, chant the holy name of God. That purifies, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). It doesn't matter where it is. Even if we... We can go to the factory. Anywhere. We can go to the hell even. By, but this process, it is a very simple thing, chanting the holy name of the Lord. So what possible objection can there be? Suppose if we go to a motor car factory, and we ask them, "Please give us some chance. We shall chant here the holy name of the Lord." What their, what is the possible objection? You are very thoughtful man. You can say.

Schumacher: I don't see the point.

Prabhupāda: Eh? There cannot be any objection.

Room Conversation -- London, August 24, 1973 :

Prabhupāda: ...in this way a living entity is wandering, but by fortune, if he gets in touch, guru-kṛṣṇa, a bona fide representative of Kṛṣṇa, a guru, by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa, because Kṛṣṇa is in everyone's heart, then he gets the seed of devotional service. And if he cultivates that devotional service, then he goes. This is the process. Not that because one has suffered so much, therefore automatically.

Woman: No, no.

Prabhupāda: No, not that.

Man: Swamiji, my wife is tired, I think. She's had a long day today. May I have your permission...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Man: ...to take her home?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Man: Thank you very much. It's been a great joy for me and for my wife to be with you.

Prabhupāda: (softly to devotee) Give them this flower. One. Yes. No.

Devotee: One?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Take another. (to guests) Your full name?

Morning Walk -- August 30, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Not advanced stage, life begins from the very beginning of sex. The living entity is very small. By nature's law, according to his karma, he's sent to the father's semina and that is injected and immediately the two secretions emulsify, the man's and the woman's, and it forms a body just like a pea. That is the formation of body. Now that pea-like form develops gradually. Then first manifestation is the nine holes. Everything is there in the Vedic literature. Nine holes, they have got nine holes. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine. In this way gradually the senses develop and by the time seven months, everything is complete and the living entity's consciousness come back. Prior to the formation of the body, the living entity remains unconscious just like in chloroform, anaesthetic. Then he dreams and then gradually consciousness... At that time he becomes very much upset to come out, come out. Then nature gives him "khut!" He comes out. That's all. This is the process of birth.

David Lawrence: Miracle.

Prabhupāda: What do they know? They do not know anything.

David Lawrence: No, no. I was absolutely amazed to read an article...

Prabhupāda: This is Vedic knowledge. So you'll get everything perfect. Therefore, how there can be any history? That is the difficulty. We are speaking everything, of the spiritual. Therefore, it is sometimes very difficult for the gross materialist. They are so dull-headed, they cannot understand.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: He can understand what is Viṣṇu, what is His function, what is my relationship with Him. All these things can be understood. Therefore we are propagating the same principle. We do not ask anyone: "First of all, you become brāhmaṇa. Then come here." No. Let him come and hear about Viṣṇu. We speak, discuss about Bhagavad-gītā. They hear. They hear Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. You have seen our books? So these books are discussed and gradually... If it is a fact, śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ, if one gives only aural reception to this transcendental message, then, although God is Ajita, nobody can conquer, He becomes conquered. So that is becoming, happening, that although they are American, European, Canadian, African, Australian, not all of them are Indian... Indians are also there. But because they are giving aural reception to this transcendental message, they are becoming enlightened. So anyone who will give aural reception to this message, first of all Bhagavad-gītā, entrance, then Bhāgavatam, then Caitanya-caritāmṛta, like books, then gradually, he'll be self-realized, fully cognizant what is God. What is God, this is... athāto brahma jijñāsā means what is God. So this institution is meant for giving chance to everyone to hear. It doesn't require education. Simply God has given him this ear. Let him receive the message from the ear. Śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. This is the process. Very simple process. Simply to hear, sincerely, then everything will be done gradually. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). By hearing, the mirror of consciousness, consciousness is just like a mirror. It is now covered with dust. Mārjanam. Mirror, if you cleanse with a duster, then you can see clearly what is your face. So by this chanting process and hearing, gradually the dirty things in the heart will be cleansed. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ (SB 1.2.17). Simply hearing about Kṛṣṇa is puṇya, pious activities. Puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. Either you hear or you chant. Puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. Hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi. There are so many dirty things, nonsense things, within the heart. Hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi, vidhunoti, is washed. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. Who is...? Find out this verse. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. In the First Canto, first part, Third Chapter. Where is Paṇḍita Mahārāja? Call him. Śṛṇvatām, you can find out in the index.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Vidhunoti suhṛt satām. What is the meaning?

Śrutakīrti: "Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the Personality of Godhead, who is the Paramātmā, Supersoul, in everyone's heart and the benefactor of the truthful devotee, cleanses desire for material enjoyment from the heart of the devotee who relishes His messages, which are in themselves virtuous when properly heard and chanted."

Prabhupāda: This is the process. If you hear about Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa is within yourself. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). When he sees you are anxious, then he helps you in cleansing the dirty things within your heart. Purport read?

Śrutakīrti: Messages of the Personality of Godhead Śrī Kṛṣṇa are nondifferent from Him. Whenever, therefore, offenseless hearing and glorification of God are undertaken, it is to be understood that Lord Kṛṣṇa is present there in the form of transcendental sound, which is as powerful as the Lord personally. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, in His Śikṣāṣṭaka, declares clearly that the holy name of the Lord has all the potencies of the Lord and that He has endowed His innumerable names with the same potency. There is no rigid fixture of time, and anyone can chant the holy name with attention and reverence at his convenience. The Lord is so kind to us that He can be present before us personally in the form of transcendental sound, but unfortunately we have no taste for hearing and glorifying the Lord's name and activities. We have already discussed developing a taste for hearing and chanting the holy sound. It is done through the medium of service to the pure devotee of the Lord.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Sarvātma-snapanaṁ paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. If you chant, then, behind the chanting there are so many things. First thing is ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, cleansing the heart. All disease are due to unclean heart. Disease means uncleanness. Is it not?

Dr. Hauser: Hmm.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So our material disease means unclean heart. So we have to cleanse the heart. And this is the process. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. You are Swedish?

Dr. Hauser: Yes, I'm Swede. Yeah.

Prabhupāda: But you can speak English very nicely.

Dr. Hauser: I lived in South America for about five years.

Prabhupāda: Johannesburg. What is called? South America. Oh, South Africa.

Śrutakīrti: South America.

Paramahaṁsa: Oh, Johannesburg, South Africa. Yeah.

Prabhupāda: You lived in South America?

Dr. Hauser: In Brazil, yes.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Brazil.

Dr. Hauser: And I went to an English school there.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: ...for others it is said. For Kṛṣṇa, it is mercy. The gopīs came with lust. They became purified with Kṛṣṇa's association. Gopīs actually, superficially, externally, they are, means, nitya-siddha, ever-liberated expansion of Kṛṣṇa's energy, internal energy. But apparently, they left their father, husband and came to Kṛṣṇa. So that is, from Vedic principle, it is wrong. One young girl cannot go to other young man, giving up the protection of father, brother, and... So they did it. So they, according to Vedic principle, it is sinful. But because it was related with Kṛṣṇa, they became purified. That means any way, if one comes in contact with Kṛṣṇa, he becomes purified. Even though he's sinful. That is Kṛṣṇa's... That is the benefit of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sun is never infected. Rather, the infected area becomes sterilized by the sunshine. This is the process. That is explained. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). One who is very powerful, he has no fault. So how your temperature is going on?

Śyāmasundara: Everything is getting very nicely improved.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Śyāmasundara: You've got some cold?

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: I got everything, still, I haven't got anything. (laughter) So you can invite the neighboring people. We can hold an evening class or morning class. I'll give you one matter for... (break) This is a nice place. If you invite the neighboring..., they may come and take advantage.

Śyāmasundara: It looks like an American neighborhood.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Nobody has intelligence. It will not, it will not stay. It will be spoiled. Joint mess organization. In Los Angeles, they're also doing business. They're going to sell books. But regulative principle is observed. Huge expenditure they have got. No center is so improved as Los Angeles. We have purchased six houses. And I wanted immediately two lakhs, immediately sent. You cannot pay. You simply want to take. In India, nobody can pay. If I want two lakhs, nobody can pay. But all this money have been taken from U.S.A. I asked Bali Mardana, I asked Karandhara. They paid me for this Bombay affair, sixteen, eighteen lakhs. (break) ...and breathing also does not stop. It goes very slow. Therefore he cannot be immortal. And Bhagavad-gītā proposes, that is wonderful thing, if you can stop death. And whole spiritual life means how to stop death. That is Bhāgavata's instruction, "Don't accept guru, don't accept father, don't accept, or don't be father, don't be mother, don't be, if you cannot stop death." Either you don't accept, or don't become. Just like they want guru. So don't accept a guru who cannot stop your death. And from guru's side, it is advised, "Don't become guru if you cannot stop the death of your disciple." This is Bhāgavatam's statement. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to stop death, live eternally with Kṛṣṇa, go back to home, back to Godhead. This is our movement. So our guru gives us this opportunity, no more death. Tyaktvā... After leaving this body, you don't accept any more material body. And if you don't accept material body, then there is no death. As soon as your spiritual, you remain in spiritual body, there is no death. There is no birth also. Death is concomitant where birth is there. If the death is stopped, then there is no birth. And if there is no birth, there is no disease, there is no old age. This is the process. So birth, death, old age, disease can be stopped only by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if you don't like to be Kṛṣṇa conscious then what is the use of becoming your disciple, and if the guru, if he cannot stop your death, birth and death, then what is your becoming guru? So 'mṛtatvāya kalpate. Yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete puruṣaṁ puruṣarṣabha. Find out this verse. Yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete.

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Why? If you are ignorant, you have to accept.

Karandhara: Because what we're told may be wrong.

Prabhupāda: May be wrong, that is your misfortune. But the process is that where your senses cannot approach, you have to hear from authority. That is the process. But if you don't approach authority, if you approach a cheater, that is your misfortune. But the process is, where your senses cannot act, you have to approach authority. That is the process.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they want experimental knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is experimental.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say, "It cannot be proved."

Prabhupāda: No, why not proved? Just like I gave you the... this water, this sand, it is practical. Now you must know somebody has made it.

Karandhara: Well, the difficulty is, in a group of atheists, you can't prove God no matter what you say.

Prabhupāda: No, atheists, kick them on their face. Atheists, they are... Those who are reasonable, that everything see, that somebody has made. So this sand is also made by somebody, the water is also made by somebody, the sky is also made by somebody. Now you find out who is that somebody. That is knowledge.

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, "Because you were not ready." (laughs) Yes, I told, yes. Now the Western boys, the descendants of the Western people, they are fortunate; therefore they receive Kṛṣṇa. Kona bhāgyavān jīva. It is Kṛṣṇa's desire that "These people are suffering so much; let some devotees come here." So you are all devotees. You have come to join together.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, during the progress of evolutionary process, suppose if the individual soul falls down from the human platform, the individual soul falls down from the human platform to some other lower species, but in the course of again evolutionary process, at some stage along the path he'll come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Is this...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, that is the process. Evolution means to come to that end, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is real evolution. If one misses the chance, then again falls down. But the natural progress is that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But ultimately he will come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes, ultimately everyone will come to Kṛṣṇa. Not Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but Kṛṣṇa. At the end of this world, devastation, they enter into the body of Kṛṣṇa. They remain there.

Hṛdayānanda: That wouldn't be very good for a devotee.

Prabhupāda: Huh? But they have no sense. These birds are feedies(?) or their bodily extension is so much. I think they're feedies(?).

Hṛdayānanda: They're what.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What? Very nice.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: This is the process of understanding. But sometimes we mistake. One who has not seen the truth, we approach him and accept him as guru. Then we are baffled. Jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ. You must approach a guru who has seen the truth. Then surrender unto him. Then serve him. And then make question. Everything will be revealed. These are the statement of Bhagavad-gītā. They'll not surrender. They'll not serve. They cannot find out who has actually seen. So many difficulties. Therefore they are cheated. They go to this man, that man. Maharishi, Dr. Mishra, this, that. Therefore they are cheated. They do not know. This is the position.

Govardhana: Śrīla Prabhupāda, one time a boy came to our temple. He chanted and took prasādam, became very blissful, purchased Bhagavad-gītā to study.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Govardhana: And then he went away for one week and associated with some Christians, and they convinced him that he had committed a great sin, that he should come to the temple and destroy the Deity. So after dancing and chanting in ecstasy, taking prasādam and reading Bhagavad-gītā, he returned to the temple one week later and tried to destroy the Deity.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Govardhana: Detroit.

Prabhupāda: Oh, he attempted it?

Govardhana: Yes, but we prevented him.

Prabhupāda: So we must be careful. There may be so many fanatics.

Govardhana: That shows that because he was not in the constant association of devotees that he lost those qualities.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. So why did you not arrest him and give to the police?

Govardhana: We did. We beat him. Then we took him to court and had him put in jail for three months.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That means you have no... You cannot see so many things. Does it mean that it does not exist? What is the value of your eyes? That I already explained. You cannot see. Now it is a misty. You cannot see anything. Does it mean your eyes are perfect. How you can see? Your eyes are not perfect. What you cannot see, you have to hear. Suppose in a distant place I cannot see. "What is that light?" I say. But if somebody knows, "Oh, that light is from..., there is a skyscraper building like this, and the light is coming." So I know what I cannot see, I can hear. Therefore what you do not see, next life, you have to hear from authority. That is stated in the Bhāgavata, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "As you have changed so many times in this life, this body, similarly, after death, you will change your body." That is authority. You have to hear. Anything you do not, cannot perceive, you cannot experiment with your senses, you have to hear from another person who knows. That is the process. Why you think your eyes are so perfect that you can see anything? Why you are thinking like rascal? Your eyes are imperfect, and why you are thinking that eyes are perfect? That is rascaldom. I cannot see. You cannot see so many things. Is that a right proposition? I cannot see. What you are? What is your position of eyes? If there is darkness, you cannot see. So does it mean that your seeing is the only evidence? What do you think? Suppose if you are a blind man, what can you see?

Devotee: My senses are imperfect. I cannot see.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You see under certain condition. That's all. So how you believe in such seeing power? Therefore we have to see through the eyes of a person who has perfect vision. That is wanted. Why do you use microscope, telescope, binocular? Why do you use if your eyes are perfect? Why do you use? If you are so confident that your eyes are perfect, why do you use these instruments? And how it is guaranteed that your instrument is also right? Because it is manufactured by your imperfect senses. So this is the position.

Morning Walk -- December 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: As we know about God, nobody knows in the world. That is a fact. Any person we can challenge that he has no clear idea, what is God, how to contact God, how to... Nobody knows. (break)

Prajāpati: ...a vague notion that they should be serving God, but they do not know how or what will please God.

Prabhupāda: Vague notion must be there because we have got relationship with God, eternal. So that is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Nitya-siddha. It is eternally a fact that we are servant of God, but we have forgotten this. So that has to be revived by this śravaṇa-kīrtana, by hearing, chanting. This is the process. Otherwise, the relationship is already there. It is not to be created. It is already there. (break)

Prajāpati: An article appeared about the Vedānta Society here, and they mentioned us to say that we are not them. They said that "Those Hare Kṛṣṇas, they are fundamentalists." Just like there are fundamentalist Christians, we are fundamentalist followers of Kṛṣṇa. So it is very nice actually because it is fundamental to believe everything that Kṛṣṇa says.

Prabhupāda: And what is the Vedānta?

Hṛdayānanda: Speculation. They are speculators. They mostly have very elderly members, and they sit around in the evening and discuss.

Prabhupāda: A few. Not even a dozen.

Karandhara: In their āśrama they say they have eight or ten people living there.

Prabhupāda: No young men.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is reality, when you are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is reality.

Hanumān: But I also see all this.

Prabhupāda: Eh? That is another thing. On the path of reality, you come.

Hanumān: On the path?

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is a process. When the process is complete, then you'll come to the reality. But that is the process. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). We cannot distinguish now reality and non-reality because the heart is unclean. So we have to cleanse, and then we come to the reality.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: For that matter, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when one comes to that stage, there is no difference between animate and inanimate. Is that true?

Prabhupāda: Highest stage?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Highest stage, everything animate.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. So a stone... Even a stone has soul.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes, yes. Just like this tree. You cut; it does not protest. The consciousness is not developed. That is the... But it has got life. You scientists, you do not believe that stone has also life?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, they say it's just matter.

Morning Walk -- January 11, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. You were also given the equal chance. Prabhupāda, my Guru Mahārāja, sat down at Māyāpur. But you were given the place of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's birth place. What, what you have done? It is still jungle. And what is Māyāpur there? All Americans are building a palatial building. So simply by criticizing, one does not become a very confidential devotee. Where is the action? What he has done? That is required. Phalena paricīyate. (break) ...everything. Unless Kṛṣṇa gives opportunity, nobody can serve Kṛṣṇa also. But he gives opportunity to the proper person. That is everywhere. If you want to become manager of a firm, the proprietor of the firm will see whether you are able to do that. Then he will give the chance. "Yes." This is reciprocal. Just like this śloka we were studying today. Kṛṣṇa becomes sārathi. Does Kṛṣṇa go to become sārathi of a rascal and fool? He becomes sārathi of Arjuna. That has to be seen. And without any qualification: "Kṛṣṇa, become my sārathi." Kṛṣṇa's not so easy. First of all qualify. First deserve, then desire. First deserve, then desire. So how a Kṛṣṇa conscious person can be desireless? The first is desire. "I desire to serve Kṛṣṇa." That is the beginning. Then Kṛṣṇa will give you chance as you deserve. This is the process. And that is explained: anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). When you become completely desireless for anything material, then bhakti begins. That is desirelessness. Desirelessness means when becomes free to desire anything except Kṛṣṇa. That is desirelessness. Desirelessness means not to desire anything material. That is desirelessness. Their Māyāvādī philosophy that "Everything is māyā, and therefore Kṛṣṇa is māyā." That is called Māyāvādī. They do not know the distinction between māyā and reality. Everything māyā. Therefore they are called Māyāvādīs.

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: We are making them bhāgyavān. We are giving them service, how to become bhāgyavān. We are spending our blood, gallons of blood, to make them bhāgyavān. This is the sacrifice of the devotees. Just like you are poor. Somebody, rich man, comes, "All right, take one million dollars from me." You get immediately rich. So it is the devotees' sacrifice that they're becoming... Just like Vāsudeva Datta. He requested Caitanya Mahāprabhu, "My Lord, you have come. Take away all these people, unfortunate people, back to home, back to Godhead. If You think they are so inglorious, they cannot be taken, then give me all their sins to me. I shall suffer. You take them." That is Vaiṣṇava. They are sacrificing everything for these unfortunate rascals. Therefore they are becoming very, very dear to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu (BG 18.69). Those who are sacrificing everything for giving, making fortunate these rascals, they become immediately very, very dear to Kṛṣṇa. Just like, if a rich man gives his money for public welfare, immediately he's recognized by the government, "Yes." He's given some title. Why? Because he has given his possession for the benefit of the public. Similarly, the devotees, they are distributing their possessions to these unfortunate people. Therefore he's immediately recognized. That is the process. But devotee does not want any recognition, but he knows that "My Lord wants this rascal to go back to home, back to Godhead. So let me try my best." He knows the mind of the master; otherwise, why the master comes and canvasses, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66)? He has no business, but He wants that "These rascals are suffering in this material condition. They are My part and parcel, My sons. Let Me try." And devotee understands that "My Lord wants it. So let me do it on His behalf." Therefore devotee is so dear. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa... (end)

Morning Walk -- February 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The so-called jñānīs, they are on the mental platform. Therefore, they are also materialists. Therefore Brahmā... You'll find in that Brahma-stotra, jñāne prayāsam udapāsya: "Give up this attempt to reach the Supreme by mental speculation." Jñāne prayāsam uda..., namanta eva: "Be submissive." Namanta eva sanmukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām: "Just hear from devotee the news of the message of God, Kṛṣṇa." That is the process recommended. Jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva sanmukharitāṁ bhavadīya-vārtām. Sthāne sthitāḥ. You haven't got to change your place. Śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ. You hear from the realized soul and try to apply in your practical life. Then, one day, although God is unconquerable, He will be conquered by you. This is recommendation by Brahmā.

Dr. Patel: I heard sometimes in bhakti-yoga that you have to become pure, you have got to leave your body consciousness and become soul conscious...

Prabhupāda: That is soul consciousness.

Dr. Patel: In the other conscious, and then...

Prabhupāda: Body consciousness is mental speculation.

Dr. Patel: That is what I say. You must go beyond that.

Prabhupāda: Ah. This is the gross body and subtle body. So when these jñānīs, they think that they have become liberated, but they are entrapped by the subtle body. Jñāne prayāsam udapāsya...

Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That depends on purity. If one has become pure, without any material desire, then that is possible. But if there is some material desire, we cannot expect direct communication.

Harikeśa: So I have much material desire.

Prabhupāda: I do not say you or he. This is the process. This is the process.

Harikeśa: But in the meantime...

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Harikeśa: ...until we have reached the pure state...

Prabhupāda: In the meantime it is not possible...

Harikeśa: Not possible.

Prabhupāda: ...directly.

Harikeśa: So we must communicate with you verbally or through letters.

Prabhupāda: Not with spiritual master here. You cannot concoct, "Now I am getting directly." No.

Harikeśa: So the nature of the communication with the spiritual master in our state is only through...

Prabhupāda: Spiritual master... Kṛṣṇa is also spiritual master.

Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Therefore you are speaking to me. So I am... (break)

Prabhupāda: According to our Vaiṣṇava principles, ādau gurvāśrayam, the first business is to accept a spiritual master. Sad-dharma-pṛcchā. Then one has to inquire about sad-dharma. Sādhu-mārgānugamanam. One should follow the footprints of the previous ācāryas. This is the process, one after another. So first thing is ādau gurvāśrayam, one has to accept a guru. So you may, you should, I mean to say, check whether he's guru or not. That is allowed. It is said for one year the śiṣya and the guru should meet together...

Dr. Patel: And don't talk.

Prabhupāda: Eh? No, the guru, I mean, the aspirant śiṣya will hear and study whether he's actually fit for becoming guru. Similarly, the guru will also study that whether he's actually fit for becoming a... Just like in our society. We don't accept immediately. We don't give initiation immediately. First of all lives for some time. Then when he becomes eager, we give the first initiation, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Then after one year, when he's fit, he's doing everything well, then we initiate him. This is our process. (break) Yes.

Dr. Patel: So if you don't hear near me, so that is the misfortune of all...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. You are a learned gentleman.

Dr. Patel: He's learning.

Prabhupāda: A learned gentleman, that is another thing, yes. And we are preaching. We must talk on the point of philosophy. That is another thing.

Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, inquiring submissively. Not that challenging. If one challenges to inquire, he'll never be benefited.

Dr. Patel: That is how... Even we have seen inquiring so intelligently. That man was such a big mathematical genius... (break)

Prabhupāda: Knowledge cannot be acquired by challenge. Knowledge is acquired by submission. That is the process.

Dr. Patel: But I don't think I am challenging you.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Why you are taking?

Dr. Patel: I am fixing the aruṇi (?) with another aruṇi. So you tell these boys I'm not challenging you.

Prabhupāda: No, no. I am talking of the process, not of you personally. Yes.

Dr. Patel: Otherwise these people will go away with an idea that I am here to challenge you.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Guest (3): Nobody can challenge anybody. A Vaiṣṇava... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...thing is to be done submissively, praṇipātena. Two things. Inquiry must be guided by two things: submission and sevā.

Dr. Patel: First, according to Bhagavad-gītā, most importance is śraddhā... (break)

Morning Walk -- March 30, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. You are suffering because you have associated with a particular type of material quality. Just like you have associated with some infectious disease. Now you are suffering. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo' sya. Why you affect...? Therefore one should remain always in sattva-guṇa. Sattva-guṇa. What is that verse in the Bhāgavata?

naṣṭa-prāyeṣu abhadreṣu

nityaṁ bhāgavataḥ-sevayā

bhāgavaty uttama-śloke

bhaktir bhavati naiṣṭhikī

(SB 1.2.18)

tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ

kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye

ceta etair anāviddhaṁ

sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati

(SB 1.2.19)

We have to go the platform of sattva-guṇa. Therefore these boys are being trained how to become in the sattva-guṇa. You cannot become a wise man... You remain in the rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa, and you become a wise man. That is not possible. You must suffer. So long you are infected with rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. So this is the process. Evaṁ prasanna-manaso bhagavad-bhakti-yogataḥ (SB 1.2.20). Again, bhagavad-bhakti. If you remain in the bhagavad-bhakti-yoga, then you become prasanna-manaso, sattva-guṇa. Ceta etair anāviddhaṁ sthitaṁ sattve prasidati.

Dr. Patel: Upadraṣṭānumantā ca... (BG 13.23). (break)

Prabhupāda: ...ātmā, Paramātmā. Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...increase your attachment. And that is also stated in the Fourth..., vīta-rāga-bhaya... man-mayā mad-āśrayaḥ...

Mr. Sar: Samagraṁ māṁ yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu.

Prabhupāda: So this is the process. If you want to know God—Kṛṣṇa means God—then this is the process. What is that? Mayy āsakta.

Dr. Patel: Mayy āsakta-manāḥ.

Prabhupāda: Mayy āsakta.

Dr. Patel: Mayy āsakta-manāḥ partha...

Mr. Sar: Yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ.

Prabhupāda: This is yoga practice also. Yoga. Yoga means to concentrate the mind on a subject matter. So we should meditate upon Kṛṣṇa. Mayy āsakta. Then gradually you'll increase your attachment for Kṛṣṇa. And that is the perfection of life. The perfection of life, the symbol is in Vṛndāvana. Because all the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana, they were very, very, much attached to Kṛṣṇa.

Mr. Sar: Attached to Kṛṣṇa were.

Prabhupāda: The cowherd boys, the girls, the elderly persons, the trees, the flowers, the land, the birds, the beasts, the cows-their center was Kṛṣṇa. So we have to follow their footprints, how to... We have got already attachment.

Mr. Sar: Yes. Yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, because you won't understand. If you don't understand, then it takes millions of years. Otherwise in a second. Where is the difficulty? Kṛṣṇa says, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya (BG 7.8). "I am the taste of the water." Prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ. So you see the sunshine. This is Kṛṣṇa. The moonshine is Kṛṣṇa. First of all try to see Kṛṣṇa in... There are two kinds of snakes. One snake is poisonless, and another snake is poisonous. So before catching the poisonous snake, you practice to catch the non-poisonous snake. Then gradually, you'll be able. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is everywhere, and this is the process to see Kṛṣṇa. That is a fact. When Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the taste of the water," that is a fact. So you see this Kṛṣṇa. Then you will, one day you will realize the Supreme Kṛṣṇa. There is no difference between this Kṛṣṇa and that Kṛṣṇa. This is the purport. (break) ...learn something, you should accept the process. If you don't accept the process, how you can learn? (break)

mayy āsakta-manaḥ pārtha

yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ

asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ

yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu

(BG 7.1)

Mayy āsakta. You just try to increase your attachment for Kṛṣṇa. And the process is being explained in the Seventh Chapter. That is the only way. (break) ...sun is open to be visible by everyone. And Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the sunshine." Why do they say that "I do not see Kṛṣṇa?" Here is Kṛṣṇa. And you take the water, taste it. That salty taste is Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ. The prabhā of sūrya is there, and the water is there. You can see immediately Kṛṣṇa. Immediately.

Guest (5): Why did He create suffering when He could have created a permanent paradise on earth?

Prabhupāda: Eh? Eh?

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is always there. It is always there. That is material world. Material world means that, sex life. That's all. And if you increase it, then you increase your material life more and more. Therefore the process is tapasā brahmacaryena (SB 6.1.13). The brahmācārya is so much stressed. Tapasā brahmacaryena. Samena damena vā, tyāgena śaucena yamena niyamena vā. This is the process of human life. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kāṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This human body is not meant for working hard like pigs for sense gratification. So they have been taught to become pigs. No discrimination of sex. The pig has no discrimination. So they have been taught. Not... When it is in śāstra, that means it is from the very beginning. A class of men are like pigs and hogs there are, always. So therefore Rsabhādeva is forbidding his sons that "This human form of life is not to waste like the pigs and hogs." Then what? Tapasā. Tapo divyaṁ putrakāḥ...

Dr. Patel: Ṛṣabhadeva's hundred sons.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. Tapo divyaṁ putrakāḥ (SB 5.5.1).

Dr. Patel: Eighty-one sons. Eighty-one sons.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. It is... Human life is meant for tapasya, but where is tapasya? They are simply teaching, "Yes, here is contraceptive method. Take." No,... Wine shop...

Dr. Patel: They give it free of charge in the...

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, why trouble? Kṛṣṇa knows everything.

Dr. Patel: For himself. Arjuna is creating trouble for himself.

Prabhupāda: No, he is creating trouble for himself because the rascals will represent that "I am incarnation of God." Therefore Arjuna is asking him, "Now show me your virāṭ-rūpa." So these rascals, bewildered by these so-called gods, they should ask, "Show me your virāṭ-rūpa. Then I shall accept you." That is the process. Not that "I am incarnation of God." How you become incarnation? Just lift one hill. Or show me virāṭ-rūpa. Or show me that you have sixteen thousand wives and you are maintaining them in sixteen thousand palaces. Then you call yourself that "I am incarnation of Kṛṣṇa." Otherwise, you rascal, I cannot believe you. For them. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa... He knows what is Kṛṣṇa, but because in future some rascal will come and will say that "I am incarnation of God," therefore it is a warning that before accepting one rascal as incarnation, you ask him to show virāṭ-rūpa.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This example is given. Suppose we are walking. This step, when I assure that "This is all right, it is not, it will not go down," then I take up this. Then again this. This example is given. Similarly, change of body like that. As soon as it is settled up what kind of body he is going to accept or which is being offered to him, daiva-netreṇa, by higher authority, then this man leaves this body and again enters in the womb of the body which he is destined to get. This is the process of death.

Yadubara: Is that immediate, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Immediate. Just like immediate I am walking. When it is fixed up, then I take up. Then when it is fixed up, then I take up, like this. Immediately.

Yaśomatīnandana: What about hell? How does the jīva soul go to hell?

Prabhupāda: Yes. They go. Those who are going to hell, that is fixed up very quickly. It doesn't take much time. Hell means he is getting the next body, hellish body. That's all. Suppose he is going to get the hellish body to become the worm of stool, so in that way he enters the worm, mother worm, to get the body and enjoy the hell. That's all.

Satsvarūpa: Don't they sometimes have to go to Yamarāja first for practice?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is daiva-netreṇa. These things are finished very quickly. And if it takes little time, then this man who is dying, he remains in coma and does not die. Because the judgement is going on, the decision waiting, coma. You have seen sometimes a man is in coma for seven days, eight days? Yes. That means his judgement is going on, that... Such kind of death means very sinful death. Not yet settled up, very complicated case. Therefore it takes time.

Yadubara: What about persons who die in their sleep? Is that a sinful death?

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...them, the form is meant for killing them, chastising them. Therefore dangerous. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). So for the nondevotees the form is very dangerous. Sadā paśyanti yoginaḥ. Yogis, they concentrate their mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. That is real yoga. (break) ...boat, he crossed over.

samāśritā ye pada-pallava-plavaṁ

mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ

bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ

padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām

(SB 10.14.58)

This is the process.

Mahāṁsa: This śloka is... Where is that śloka, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: It is in the Tenth Canto. Bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padam. Just like this ocean, if it becomes a small pit, then don't require a big ship to cross over. You just... Like this. It can be reduced. By Kṛṣṇa's desire, it can be done so. Just like at the present moment... Formerly, people used to go to London from India, from Bombay, at least, in fifteen days. Now it doesn't take even fifteen hours. It takes only nine hours. How it has been reduced? Because there is a process to reduce. Similarly, the supreme spiritual process is like that. It can be reduced to any quantity. Aṇi... This is called aṇimā-siddhi. It can be expanded also, to the greatest length. Mahimā-śakti. All-powerful means not that "I cannot do, I cannot, I can do this only." No, anything He can do. That is all powerful. Aṇimā, laghimā, mahimā. Just like all these big, big planets, they are floating in the sky. This is called laghimā, weightless, no weight. Those who are going to the moon planet, they are finding out weightlessness. How it has become weightless? Such a big, huge... Just this planet. With so many seas and mountains and cities and buildings. But it is floating. That's a fact. It is floating like a swab. How it is floating? You can say something nonsense, but the actual fact is this.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. To some extent. By material arrangement... The yogis can do still more. Without any material machine, they can float. They can walk on the water, becomes light. (break) ...man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). This is the process. (break) ...colleges, the students are being educated that there is no God. And they expect good behavior from them. And when they set fire in the bus, that is... "The students are so dangerous now." But you have made them dangerous. The educational system. They are protesting against the existence of God. (break) ...so-called swamis. And they are also accelerating, "yes, no more. There is no God. Why you are searching God anywhere? There are so many gods loitering in the street. They are God." That is the statement of Vivekananda. "Why you are finding out, trying to find out God elsewhere. These are Gods." (break) ...if required, one may come, very easily, one may take some time. But we should go on preaching.

Indian (3): No, exactly. We should not do anything...

Prabhupāda: No. (break) ...American, rude. That is my experience. He may not agree with my philosophy. (break) ...the reason is that they are not poverty-stricken. Yes. When one becomes poverty-stricken, his all good qualities become null and void. Daridra-doṣa guṇa-rāśi nāśī. Our country is now poverty-stricken. Therefore we have lost our all good qualities. (break) ...loss is that we have lost our culture, original Vedic culture. That is the greatest loss. When the culture was that one man was trying to kill one cow, and immediately Mahārāja Parīkṣit wanted to take step against him. Now just see how much that culture has gone down. Here ten thousand, twelve thousand cows are being killed regularly under government management. You see. (break) ...for stopping cow-killing.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is impudency. That is impudency. The worship of the Deity should begin from the leg, from the feet. That is respect. Just like my disciples offer respect and touches my feet, not my head. That is impudency. You cannot touch head. Head is touched when I give him, "All right, be blessed." I shall touch his head, and he shall touch my feet. This is the process. You cannot touch the superior head. That is impudency. You cannot jump over like that.

Indian man (1): It's a part of the body. It is only a...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But that is the system. That is the system. You should begin. That... That is described in the Bhāgavatam. The First and Second Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam are the two legs of Kṛṣṇa. That is the beginning. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). These professional reciters, they read Bhāgavata. They jump over immediately to the face. The Tenth Canto is described as the face of Kṛṣṇa. So you cannot go immediately to the head. You must begin from the feet. First Canto, Second Canto. Therefore there are nine cantos, and then Tenth Canto. And the Kṛṣṇa's rasa dance, that is the smiling of Kṛṣṇa. So you cannot ask the superior to take the facility of his smiling. Smiling will be when he is pleased. The difficulty is that the Māyāvādī philosophy, they do not accept the form of the Lord. And they do not know how to behave with the form. Of course, there is no difference between Kṛṣṇa's face and Kṛṣṇa's feet. There is no difference. But still, the system must be followed. Pāda-sevanam. It is very important verse. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). When one has heard, when one has properly chanted, he has little experience of the transcendental form of the Lord, then his service beginning. Just like I engage one servant.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But that is the system. That is the system. You should begin. That... That is described in the Bhāgavatam. The First and Second Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam are the two legs of Kṛṣṇa. That is the beginning. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). These professional reciters, they read Bhāgavata. They jump over immediately to the face. The Tenth Canto is described as the face of Kṛṣṇa. So you cannot go immediately to the head. You must begin from the feet. First Canto, Second Canto. Therefore there are nine cantos, and then Tenth Canto. And the Kṛṣṇa's rasa dance, that is the smiling of Kṛṣṇa. So you cannot ask the superior to take the facility of his smiling. Smiling will be when he is pleased. The difficulty is that the Māyāvādī philosophy, they do not accept the form of the Lord. And they do not know how to behave with the form. Of course, there is no difference between Kṛṣṇa's face and Kṛṣṇa's feet. There is no difference. But still, the system must be followed. Pāda-sevanam. It is very important verse. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). When one has heard, when one has properly chanted, he has little experience of the transcendental form of the Lord, then his service beginning. Just like I engage one servant. So gradually he is given service. "First of all this, first of all that, then..." Again and again, again, again. The same example can be given, that the husband and wife. Formerly, when I was married, my wife was eleven years old. So (laughing) an eleven years old girl and I was at the same time twenty-one, twenty-two. One day I captured her hand. She began to cry. A little girl, you see? So gradually, gradually. I know... When my brother-in-law, sister's husband, used to come... In the beginning, the girls were very... My sisters were same age. So they would meet the husband, offering a little pan or little sandeśa. (break) ...after this. Then niṣṭhā. Then he has got a firm conviction that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and my duty is to serve Kṛṣṇa." That is called niṣṭhā. Then ruci. Then he increases taste. He cannot go out. He cannot go out of this jurisdiction. Just like these boys, they have come from Europe, America. They are attached. Otherwise I am not giving them bribe. I have no money. Why they are attached to serve me any way? If I say that "You die," he will die. Why this attachment? This is development of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, development of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Ruci, aśakti, tato bhāva. Then bhāva. Bhāva means Kṛṣṇa consciousness fully developed. Then love. Then love. Love is actually exhibited. Then "Let me serve Kṛṣṇa in this way, in that way, that way, that way." You see? Fully engaged. This is the process.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ah. Advanced in knowledge, who can teach other people nicely. And they can guide. There must be. That brāhmaṇa means spiritual guidance, kṣatriya means material guidance. So these things are necessity. But where are those brāhmaṇas and kṣatriyas? They are training everyone śūdra. Work hard like hogs and dogs and fill up your hungry belly. That's all. This is the modern civilization. (break) ...Kali-yuga's symptoms: dakṣyam udaraṁ bharitaḥ. One man is supposed to be very expert who has learned how to fill up his belly. That's all. No other knowledge is required. Whether you have sumptuously put foodstuff within your belly. And then it is... You are very expert person. (break) ...saṅkīrtanaiḥ prāyair yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ (SB 11.5.32). That is mentioned in the śāstra, that those who have got good brain, in this age they will perform this yajña. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ prāyair yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ. Sumedhasaḥ. Others they will bother with so many things, but this yajña should be introduced, and people should be engaged in performing this yajña. Then everything will be all right. (break) Yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ (BG 3.14). Annād bhavanti bhūtāni. This is the process. If you don't perform yajña, there will be no sufficient rain, and if there is no sufficient rain, there is no sufficient food products. And if there is no food products, then how you will...? Simply by political agitation you will be happy? And that has happened. There is no food. Simply talks, in the assembly, in the conference, in the meeting. But there is no food. Food is selling at four rupees a kilo. Where is yajña? (break) "...need of brāhmaṇa, there is no need of yajña," or "Kick aside all these things. Simply make śūdras." Now, how you will be happy? There is no food, there is no cloth, there is no shelter. That's all.

Indian man (1): But they have provided you with motorcars and aeroplanes to go across the sea, reach America, France, within a few hours.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is also credit. Because they have done something...

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ

janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām

te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā

bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ

(BG 7.28)

To stick to Kṛṣṇa bhajana is not so easy, that you will go on committing all sinful activities and you will become Kṛṣṇa devotee. That is not possible. You have to give up, and you have to come. But this is the process. You will be free, and you will understand. Guru-kṛṣṇa kṛpāya (CC Madhya 19.151). If one follows bona fide guru's instruction and he is engaged in devotional service, then it is possible. Then it is possible. Otherwise, if he does whimsically then it will be a failure. He must carry out the instruction of the guru, bona fide guru. Guru means bona fide guru, not pseudo guru. And according... What guru will advise? To be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. These two things will help him. Otherwise it is not possible. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya: "By the mercy of guru and by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa." So both of them should be served. That is the process, not that "Now I have become advanced devotee. I don't require to serve guru." Neither, "Oh, I am serving my guru. I don't care for Kṛṣṇa," no. Parallel line. Not that "One line I can walk," no. Parallel line. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). Therefore in our temple, along with Deities, guru is also worshiped. Guruṣu nara-matiḥ, if one accepts guru—"Guru is guru, guru is guru"—as ordinary human being, then that is offense, nārakī buddhi.

Mahāṁsa: That kind of worship is eternal.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Govardhana-pādapa-tale. This is the... This is the bhajana of Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava. He rādhe vraja-devike ca lalite he nanda-sūno kutaḥ. Kutaḥ: "Where You are?" Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava will never say that "We have seen." Kutaḥ: "Where You are?"

he rādhe vraja-devike ca lalite he nanda-sūno kutaḥ

śrī-govardhana-(kalpa-)pādapa-tale kālindī-vane kutaḥ

Or

govardhana-pādapa-tale.

ghoṣantāv iti sarvato vraja-pure khedair mahā-vihvalau

vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau

ei chay gosāi jār, tār mui dās,

tān-sabāra pada-reṇu, mora pañca-grās

We have to follow the Gosvāmīs to understand Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa tattva. Directly we cannot understand.

rūpa-raghunātha-pade haibe ākuti,

kabe hāma bhujhabo, se jugala-pīriti

"The conjugal love between Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, when I shall understand?" Rūpa-raghunātha-pade haibe ākuti: "When I shall be very much eager to the favor of Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, Raghunātha Gosvāmī, it may be possible I can understand what is Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa." This is the process. So Rūpa Gosvāmī and other Gosvāmīs, they never said that "In Vṛndāvana we have seen Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa."

Dr. Patel: They were searching, search of Rādhā.

Prabhupāda: Search of Rādhā. That is Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava, vipralambha, in separation, feeling "Where is Kṛṣṇa? Where is Kṛṣṇa? Where is Kṛṣṇa?" Govinda-viraheṇa me. Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me.

Dr. Patel: "The whole world is śūnya in absence of..."

Prabhupāda: This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching. Govinda-vira...

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now he is above brāhmaṇa. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). He is brahma-bhūtaḥ, not brāhmaṇa.

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param

(BG 18.54)

Anyone who is in the devotional service, he is already brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...Bengali proverb, Bengali tomār je balo asa, mussulmaner murgi pasa, (laughter) that "You love me just like the Mohammedan loves the murgi, chicken every day cutting one." I thought that they are taking so much care of the cows but later I understood not taking care. They are making them fattened to kill. The whole Western world. Why America? In your country also. In England? This is the process. Letchmore Heath in our Bhaktivedanta Manor, so many cows were there. It is meant for killing.

Dr. Patel: You know, when, during Christmas, they bring the turkey, they fatten it.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Patel: These Christians, during the Christmas, they buy a turkey one month before...

Prabhupāda: But that is not the injunction of Christ. They have made it.

Dr. Patel: No, no. That cannot be injunction of a saint like that.

Prabhupāda: No. He says, "Thou shall not kill," general order.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 2, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan. This is called bhakti-yoga. Mayy āsakta. The aśakti, the attachment, is for so many things. Now we have to concentrate it on Kṛṣṇa. This is bhakti-yoga. Mayy āsakta manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. Simply by this concentration of an attraction to Kṛṣṇa, you become liberated. This is the process.

Dr. Patel: First you must perfect your thinking of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. When you think of Kṛṣṇa, you are on the transcendental position. You are not in the material world. Māṁ ca vyabhicāriṇi bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate, sa guṇān samatītya etān. He is immediately transcendental to all the qualities of material world.

Dr. Patel: Then he becomes brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20).

Prabhupāda: Yes. So if continuously... That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. If you continuously remain yourself, thinking of Kṛṣṇa, smārtavyaḥ satato viṣṇu vismārtavyo na jatucit. This is the process: You have to think of Kṛṣṇa always. The yogis and others, they artificially, for a certain time, fifteen minutes, twenty minutes or half an hour, they think of Kṛṣṇa by meditation, and they engage again in the material activities. But here...

Dr. Patel: The yogis have got difficulty... (break)

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 2, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But because they have surrendered, all sinful activities is counteracted. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). Anyone surrenders sincerely to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, immediately he becomes free from all reaction of sinful life. Because he is saved. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ: "Don't worry." This is the process. So however one might have done or executed so many sinful activities, if he fully surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, then everything is counteracted immediately. But not that repetition, that "I surrender to Kṛṣṇa; then again I'll do some sinful activities and again I surrender." This business will not be allowed. This is called nāmno balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. That is the greatest sin, on the strength of Kṛṣṇa's mercy, to go on repeating sinful activities. That is greatest sin. Kṛṣṇa can excuse you-ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣa..., mā śucaḥ—but you don't make it business, that "I commit all sinful activities and surrender to Kṛṣṇa to counteract." No, this is not good. This will not be allowed. (break) ...but you cannot cheat him. Then you'll suffer.

Girirāja: (break) "...been pleased by his undergoing all kinds of penances and austerities, and he must have executed universal welfare activities for all living creatures. The Nāga-patnīs confirmed that one cannot come in contact with Kṛṣṇa without having executed pious activities in devotional service in his previous lives." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...double feature is not understood by the Māyāvādīs. If Kṛṣṇa has created the whole, so why he should be separate? He is not separate, still separate. (break) ...regularly this book Kṛṣṇa, he will be liberated, simply by reading this book.

Girirāja: (break) "...narration of the Kāliya serpent and his punishment will need fear no more the envious activities of snakes. The Lord also declared, 'If one takes a bath in the Kāliya lake where My cowherd boyfriends and I have bathed, or if one, fasting for a day, offers oblations to the forefathers from the water of this lake, he will be relieved from all kinds of sinful reaction.' " (break)

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: The body is just like a machine, and the spirit soul is sitting on this machine, and God is there within the heart. So He is giving the direction. "You wanted to do this. Now you go and do this." This is the... So if you are sincere, "Now, God, I want You," then He will give you directions, "You go and get it." This is the process. But if we want something else than God, then God will give you direction, "You go and take it." He's very kind. Īśvaraḥ sarva... I want to have something and He is within my heart, and He is giving me, "Yes, you come here. You take this." So if that God can give direction to give you indication, "You go and take this," why not the spiritual master? First of all we must know, we must be eager to again revive our God consciousness. Then God will give us the spiritual master.

O'Grady: Thank you.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

O'Grady: His Grace must be very tired.

Dhanañjaya: We can distribute some prasādam now?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Give them.

Bhagavān: Stay, we have some prasādam.

Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Nitāi: Those eligible for elevation to the transcendental position are mentioned in this verse. For those who are sinful, atheistic, foolish and deceitful, it is very difficult to transcend the duality of desire and hate. Only those who have passed their lives in practicing the regulative principles of religion, who have acted piously and have conquered sinful reactions can accept devotional service and gradually rise to the pure knowledge of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Then, gradually, they can meditate in trance on the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the process of being situated on the spiritual platform. This elevation is possible in Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the association of pure devotees who can deliver one from delusion.

It is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that if one actually wants to be liberated he must render service to the devotees; but one who associates with materialistic people is on the path leading to the darkest region of existence. All the devotees of the Lord traverse this earth just to recover the conditioned souls from their delusion. The impersonalists do not know that forgetting their constitutional position as subordinate to the Supreme Lord is the greatest violation of God's law. Unless one is reinstated in his own constitutional position, it is not possible to understand the Supreme Personality or to be fully engaged in His transcendental loving service with determination.

Prabhupāda: So we forbid our students to refrain from four sinful activities: No illicit sex life, no meat-eating, and no intoxication, up to drinking tea, coffee or smoking. They are also intoxicants. And no gambling. These four principles, they avoid completely. And as it is recommended in this book, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: (BG 18.65) "Always think of Me," man-manā. "Just become My devotee. Just offer your obeisances unto Me, and just worship Me." Four principles. If you follow these four principles without any offense, then you go back to home, back to Godhead. So for remembering God, you chant always God's name on these beads.

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: That is also nonsense. There was no Kṛṣṇa. There was no Mahābhārata or Kurukṣetra. He has written like that.

Prof. Regamay: But he was dead with the words Rāma, pronouncing, "Rāma Rāma."

Prabhupāda: Well, I... That is the process of India to chant the name of Kṛṣṇa. Every Indian has got initial propensity, but actually Gandhi did not know anything about spiritual science. He was politician, that's all. That one Bengal governor, he was from Australia, Mr. Keziar (?). So he, I remember. "Gandhi is a politician amongst the saintly person or a saintly person amongst the politicians." This study was made. His moral principle, character, is very good. That is to be taken by the politicians. But so far his spiritual knowledge is concerned, that is nil.

Prof. Regamay: But nonviolence is not well in every case?

Prabhupāda: No, nonviolence... Actually that is the subject matter of Bhagavad-gītā. What do you mean by nonviolence. Because you are not this body. Suppose if I tear away your coat, does it mean that you are killed? So those who are in the bodily concept of life, "I am this body," for them, this kind of fighting or killing is violence. It is violence. But the thing is, there is sometimes necessity. Just like every state maintains the military force, the police force. What is this? The violence department. Required. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, paritrāṇāya sādhūnām (BG 4.8). Suppose you are attacked by some rogue, and if somebody comes and kills him, there is a necessity. It is natural. If you say that time nonviolence, it is foolishness. It is foolishness. Vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. Those who are rogues and, I mean to say, culprit, criminal, they should be killed. They should be stopped by violence. So violence is required sometimes. Violence is not bad, but it is not to be used ordinarily.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Nitāi: "Engage your mind always in thinking of Me, offer obeisances and worship Me. Being completely absorbed in Me, surely you will come to Me."

Prabhupāda: That's all. Now either you engage your mind in Kṛṣṇa or Jesus does not matter. It is same thing. But this is the process. "Engage your mind in Me." Then?

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Prabhupāda: So we are teaching this, that engage your mind to God or the son of god; it doesn't matter. But your mind should be godly engaged. That's all. That is meditation. That is real meditation: "Always think of Me." And in another place, in Sixth Chapter, you see,

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

mad-gatenāntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

(BG 6.47)

"The first-class yogi is he who is always thinking of Me." So it doesn't matter you are Christian, I am Hindu. The real point is that think of God or God's representative always. That is the point.

Swiss Man (1): (French)

Yogeśvara: (translates) And in that situation, always thinking of God like that, our philosophy is that naturally these others things, charity, humanitarian works, they will all come naturally?

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: At the time of danger, we remember providence or God. That is also good. So that is a Hindi proverb that duhkse sab hari bhaje, sukse bhaje kol, sukse ajar hari bhaje, duhka ase hay(?). Means "When one is in danger, he remembers God, and when he is in happiness he forgets God. Therefore if he remembers God always, then where is danger?" So our business is to become God conscious. Then there will be no anxiety. So we are preaching that, I, here, that you become God conscious. Death is there. You cannot save yourself. Either you are on the land or on the plane, death will be there. You must be prepared for the death. But if by practicing remembering God, even at the time of death you continue to remember God, then your life is successful. Death will be there. You cannot stop that. Ante nārāyaṇa-smṛtiḥ (SB 2.1.6). So if at the time of death we can remember God, then our life is successful. Therefore, before death we shall mold our life in such a way that always thinking of God. Man-manā bhava mad... Satataṁ cintayanto mām. Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām (BG 9.14). This is life. We should always remember God. Then we must know who is God otherwise how can I remember? If I have no idea of God, then how can I remember? So we must know what is God. We must remember always God. We must become a devotee of God. In that way we can save ourself from the anxiety. Otherwise it is not possible. Because a God-conscious man, he knows that "I'll die. Everyone will die; I'll also die." But his concern is: "At the time of death, I shall remember Kṛṣṇa." That's all. Then his life is successful. Death we cannot avoid. There must be. Tyaktvā deham. We have to give up this body. But the question is how I shall give up this body. The cats, dogs, they also give up their body, and I'll also have to give up my body. But shall I give up the body like cats and dogs, or as human being? That is the process. Therefore one should, a human being should prepare himself how to give up this body. That is humanity. Kṛṣṇa says... Find out this verse. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9).

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Material body means again death. As soon as you accept this material body, either human body or cat's body or dog's body or tree's body, it has end. Therefore it is said, tyaktvā deham, if one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then, giving up this body, no more accepting any material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). "He comes to Me." And that is the solution of all anxieties. So if you want to become anxietyless, therefore we would advise you to become God conscious, always think of God, Kṛṣṇa. Then your life will be successful. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt. Hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta (SB 7.5.5). This is the process, that so long we'll be on the platform of material existence, we cannot avoid anxiety. That is not possible. Therefore it is the duty of everyone to give up this material world and take shelter of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That will give us relief from all anxieties. (pause)

Guru-gaurāṅga: Is it clear? (break)

Prabhupāda: ...activities. Otherwise how can you become Kṛṣṇa conscious? In our society we are doing so many things. We are sending our men. We are publishing books. We are distributing... Because: how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is the only idea. Central idea is how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. So there is activity, always. From morning, four o'clock, until night, ten o'clock, we have got full program of activities. And all these activities are meant for how to become perfectly Kṛṣṇa conscious. That's all.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: I think... When I was in college I studied chemistry, and I think many of the scientists that I also met, they felt very alienated from their asso..., from their relationship with nature or with God because of their empirical approach to everything, of setting themselves apart from everything. Therefore they felt detached from the complete whole, almost as if an island floating away somewhere with no relationship.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So in another place also it is said, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65), mām evaiṣyasi, asaṁśaya. "If you want to enter in the kingdom of God, always think of Me," man-manā, "and you just become My devotee and worship Me and offer your obeisances." These four principles, it is not difficult. To achieve the kingdom of God is not at all difficult. It is very easy. Anyone can go. But they are not prepared to accept the process. That is their misfortune. Otherwise, always thinking of God. We are thinking something, but the thinking should be turned towards God. That is our teaching. They are always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So by uttering the word Kṛṣṇa, immediately you think of Kṛṣṇa. This is the process. It is not difficult at all. And you can always think of, just like these boys have been taught, walking on the street, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma... Just like we have got this. I am talking with you, but two minutes I talk with you, as soon as I stop, I chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma... What is the difficulty? It is simply practice. No difficulty. And simply by chanting the holy name of Kṛṣṇa, everyone can see how these young boys and girls, they are not very old, they have taken to it quite young, but they have forgotten everything. They do not go to cinema, do not go to hotel, no dancing. Dancing they have got—Kṛṣṇa dancing, always. Painting they have got, singing they have got, arts, literature. We have got eighty books like this, four hundred pages. Pure life—no meat eating, no illicit sex, no intoxication, no gambling. Finished. And it is guaranteed if you remain in this attitude, Kṛṣṇa says that "Surely you come back to me." What is the second line? Man-manā...

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: We want to see the quality, not the quantity. So our process is paramparā. Just like in India—you have been in India—there are ācāryas: Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Caitanya. If the ācārya accept, then we accept. This is our process. We don't go the millions; we see the quality. Rāmānujācārya, high quality devotee; Madhvācārya, high quality devotee; Caitanya, high quality devotee. If they say he is God, then we accept. This is our process. We don't see how many millions of followers. No. We want to see the quality man. He says yes. So Śaṅkarācārya says "Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead," Rāmānujācārya says "the Supreme Personality of Godhead," Madhvācārya says "Supreme," Caitanya says "Supreme," then we accept. That's all. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ. Simply by argument we cannot understand the truth. Tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā. And if you simply consult Vedic literature, that is also not possible. There are different statements. Tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā, nāsāv munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. A muni, a saintly person, a philosopher is not a philosopher or muni if he does not agree with others. He must disagree, then he becomes. So that is also not the way. Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyām: it is very confidential. Then how to know? Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Big personalities, ācāryas—that is the process. Ācāryopāsanam. What is that, in the Thirteenth Chapter? Ācāryopāsanam, we have to understand through the ācāryas. That is our process. That is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). We accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead not by our experience but by the experience of the acaryas who are recognized, and then we follow. Just like Arjuna accepts Kṛṣṇa in the Tenth Chapter. Find out, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). Read it.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: What is that translation?

Pradyumna: "Arjuna said: You are the Supreme Brahman, the ultimate, the supreme abode and purifier, the Absolute Truth and the eternal divine person. You are the primal God, transcendental and original, and You are unborn and the all-pervading beauty. All the great sages such as Nārada, Asita, Devala, and Vyāsa proclaim this of You, and now You Yourself are declaring it to me."

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa says, and He is confirmed by Vyāsadeva, Asita, Nārada. This is the process. We do not accept everyone says "I am avatāra, I am God." We don't accept. But because it is accepted by the ācāryas, therefore we accept. Just like the same example I can give: I do not know who is my father, and many people will come, "I am your father." So we do not accept them. When mother says, "He is your father," then accept. That is final. I have no experience. It is beyond my experience, because father existed before my birth. So beyond my experience. So I am finding out who is my father, and so many people are coming, "I am your father." No. But as soon as the mother says, "No, no, this man is your father," then we accept. Then our business finished. Then we get experience. Father is beyond my experience, but when we receive the knowledge through the mother, then we get experience. Arjuna says that: paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12), "You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Not only You are saying, but You are accepted by these authorities." That is all. I cannot get my experience of God; that is not possible. God comes, He says, and Kṛṣṇa comes and He is accepted by all the great ācāryas, then our business is perfect. So give them prasāda.

Bhagavān: Yes. I have prasādam in my office.

Prabhupāda: Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186).

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: The Bhagavad-gītā says, Kṛṣṇa, that "I am the enjoyer. I am the proprietor. I am the friend." Bhoktāram... Read out this.

bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ

sarva-loka-maheśvaram

suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

(BG 5.29)

This is the process of peacefulness, when one understands that Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer, Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor of all lokas, all worlds. And Kṛṣṇa is the best friend of everyone. (French) (aside:) Get the light. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says that liberation of India from the English was done because of many, various forces, but that amongst the people, the common mass of people who helped to liberate India, there was, of course, a religious people. But there was religious people on both sides. There was religious people amongst those who wanted to liberate India, but also among those who wanted the English to be there, not in imperialism.

Yogeśvara: In other words, his point, essentially, is that religious sentiment was there on both sides. It was there on the imperialists' side as well as on the side of those who were fighting for India's liberation. So there seems to be a kind of dichotomy. Religious sentiments can be expressed by anyone, whatever their motivation is. Whether it be imperialist, whether it be communist... Religious sentiment is found...

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So you take the poison and die. Because you do not understand easily, better you take poison and die.

Paramahaṁsa: What does it mean when they say that failure is the pillar of success?

Prabhupāda: Yes. For whom? Who is actually searching after success? Not for the fool. Anyone who is trying for attaining success, for him, failure is also success because he's making progress. Harer nāma harer nāma... (CC Adi 17.21). God says, "Many ways." That's all right. But why does He says that "If you want to know Me perfectly, and without any doubt, then this is the process, bhakti"? Other processes are there but by those processes you cannot understand. Just like practically, call anyone, so-called yogis, so-called jñānīs, they'll not understand Kṛṣṇa. They'll not understand Kṛṣṇa. So all other paths that are recommended, by those paths you cannot understand God perfectly and without any doubt. Therefore God says clearly, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ: (BG 18.55) "Actually, what I am, that can be understood by bhakti-yoga." Other systems, you'll... I explained that last night. That is partial understanding. That is not full understanding.

Yogeśvara: But they'll say that that's the conclusion of Bhagavad-gītā, but we don't accept Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Then go to hell. (laughter)

Yogeśvara: But they say other parts of the Vedas recommend other ways.

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes, but if you follow the rules and regulations, automatically, you'll love Kṛṣṇa. Sādhakānām ayaṁ premṇaḥ prādurbhāve bhavet kramaḥ. These are the stepping-stones. The devotional service develops by association. So if the associates are pure devotees, anyone who will come to that association will become devotee. (break) ...just like a young man and young woman. The devotion is there, love is there, but in the beginning, they should mix, or some presentation should be given, some, something eatable should be accepted, should be given. In this way, when the association is thick and thin, the love is there. The love is already there. It has to awakened by a certain process. Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti bhuṅkte bhojayate guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati ca ṣaḍ-vidhaṁ prīti-lakṣaṇam. These are six types of loving principles, that you give, if you want to love somebody, you give something. And whatever he or she offers, you take from him. Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti. You give him something to eat, and whatever he or she gives, you eat. Bhuṅkte bhojayate ca. And guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati. And you try to understand his heart, and your heart be disclosed to him or her. If you follow these principles, automatically the loving propensity will awaken. It is already there. It is not artificial. It has simply to be awakened by a certain process. So that process we are prescribing, to rise early in the morning, have maṅgala-ārātrika, worship Deity, offer food stuff, eat prasādam, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Anyone who will follow this principle, he will become purified. There is no need of education, because the devotion is already there. By following these rules and regulations, it will be awakened. As, as, as in this straw, there is fire. Now, you ignite it, and just fan it, and the fire will come. It is already there, fire. But you know, you must know the process how to ignite fire. Huge fire will come. You can burn the whole garden from this straw. Is it not? So you must know the process, how to ignite fire. Fire is already there, in these trees, in these straws, in this grass. Fire is already there. That, that is the process. First of all, you must know that fire is already there. Now ignite. Then it comes more. Then burning, blazing. So the blazing fire is required. But that will come gradually. If you follow the process. That is described by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu in the Śikṣāṣṭakam, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). The first step will be cleansing of the heart. And in the heart there is God, already. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). The Lord is situated in everyone's heart. So actually yoga system is to find out the Lord within the heart. That is meditation. Lord is there already: simply we have to find it out. That, that if, if you are informed that within this park there is one hundred weight of gold is lying there. Now you have to find out. But the indication is there. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). The Lord, the Supreme Lord, is situated in everyone's heart. Now find him out. That is yoga system. So these people, without finding out the Lord by practicing... (end)

Morning Walk -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is that understanding? His understanding is that "I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. So let me surrender to Kṛṣṇa as He wants and serve Him." This is life. As soon as he is on this platform, then he is out of illusion. And if he is perfect, then just after giving up this body he goes to Kṛṣṇa. This is the process. If he does not fall from this transcendental service of Kṛṣṇa, then immediately after death he is transferred. Just like we are transferred from this gross body to subtle body, similarly, after death a devotee is transferred immediately to the Kṛṣṇa, where Kṛṣṇa is there, either within this material world or... They are first of all given chance to go to Kṛṣṇa. In any brahmāṇḍa there is Kṛṣṇa. Nitya-līlā is going on. So he is born there. Then actually plays with Kṛṣṇa, dance with Kṛṣṇa, talks with Kṛṣṇa. Apprenticeship. This is also apprenticeship here. So is there any difficulty of perception?

Satsvarūpa: No.

Prabhupāda: Why you said that "I have no perception?" There is perception, every day, every night. How you can say there is no perception? The perception is so strong, sometimes one dreaming some horrible position, he cannot more sleep. The sleep breaks. So why there is no perception? He is so much troubled that breaks. He immediately comes to the safe side of this gross body.

Devotee (1): Yes, takes shelter.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Yes. It doesn't matter whether it is Christianity or Hinduism or Muslim or... Knowledge is knowledge. Wherever knowledge is available, you must pick up. So knowledge... Now let us explain, that knowledge has no color. Knowledge is knowledge. It doesn't matter whether Christianism or Hinduism or Mohammedan. Now, this is a knowledge, that every living entity is imprisoned within this body. This knowledge is equally good for Hindus, Muslim, Christian or everyone. There is no question of Christianism or Hinduism. The soul is imprisoned within this body, and the problem is birth, death, old age and disease on account of this body. But we want to live eternally, we want full knowledge; we want full blissfulness. To attain that goal of life, we must get out of this body. This is the process. (German) (break)

Vedavyāsa: (translating) ...stress on this point that we are existing in a body but we should accept our existence as human being.

Prabhupāda: Existence as human being, you want. So do you think human being is existing in this body is perfect? (German)

Dr. P. J. Saher: No, I don't say it is perfect. (German)

Vedavyāsa: So he says yes, he accepts our life now is not perfect, that we are conditioned. But he says we shouldn't construct an ideal human being, but we should accept our life as it is now.

Prabhupāda: No, no. The thing is that you are not perfect. Therefore the idea should be how to become perfect. (German)

Vedavyāsa: (Vedavyāsa is translating from here on) So he asks, "How to become perfect, as human being or as spirit?" Because he sees now only human beings. So this is the problem how to become perfect as human being, not as spirit.

Prabhupāda: Why you are sticking to human being although it is imperfect? Why you are sticking to human being? (German) You are accepting this human being is not perfect, and still, why you are sticking to this imperfect life? Now, in what way you like this human form of body? What is the purpose? (German)

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes, in the beginning there is no love. Let him work on the direction of God's representative. (break) Therefore it has been warned, arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matir vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. The Deity of Viṣṇu, if one thinks, "This is made of stone; this is made of wood; this is made of metal," and spiritual master as ordinary human being, these are hellish considerations. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matiḥ. Guruṣu means the spiritual master. Nara-matiḥ, a ordinary human being. And vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. And Vaiṣṇava, a devotee—"Oh, he is brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇava. He is European Vaiṣṇava. He is this Vaiṣṇava, that..." No. These are forbidden. Vaiṣṇava is Vaiṣṇava. Spiritual master... They are all transcendental. In... of course, in this country you are introducing new, but in India... Just like we had been at Tirupati, Tirumala. Many thousands of people were coming, and their daily collection is not less than 100,000 rupees. And do you think these people are coming to offer these 100,000 rupees daily to a stone? And the ācāryas established this temple for bluffing these people? Does it mean, their collecting? They do not know the science, rascals. And therefore simply... Sinful life cannot help. Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that "One who is killer of animal, he cannot understand the spiritual science." Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). This is the statement. Paśughna means the animal killer. Therefore the first prohibition is stop this animal killing. Otherwise, this dull brain will not be able to understand. They are not fit for understanding. Mūḍha, mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). Duṣkṛtina means always engaged in sinful activities. They have got brain but their brain is being utilized only for sinful activities, they are called duṣkṛtina. Kṛtī, kṛtī means good brain, and duṣkṛtī means brain is being utilized for sinful act. Therefore they are mūḍha. In spite of good brain, they are rascals, because brain is being utilized for sinful activities, how to set up up-to-date machinery for killing animals. Brain is being used for this purpose. Any animal can be killed with ordinary knife, but they're manufacturing latest machinery. Their brain, rascal brain is being used for that purpose. And what they will understand? They are preparing their road for going to hell. What they will understand about spiritual matters? Nature will not excuse. That is not possible. (break) That is sufficient for your being killed. Yes, sir. Wherefrom these laws come unless there is God's laws? Everyone will be killed. They are thinking that "We are not going to slaughterhouse to kill. They kill; we purchase." The Buddhist says like that. Everyone says like that. Therefore, according to Vedic scripture, those animal-eaters, they should kill them personally so that they can see how much suffering is there, so he will stop. But now the things are being done in the slaughterhouse. They do not see. They purchase very nicely packed. They do not know. And they are becoming implicated. Therefore, according to Vedic injunction, if you want to eat meat, you kill yourself in your front, in the front of goddess Kālī. So that the animal will get next life as human being. He is promoted immediately. He hasn't got to go to the evolutionary process. He gets immediately. And it is given right that "After you get human form of (life), you can kill this person." You see? This is the process of bali-dāna, mantra and everything. (Break) ...regulation that... that is not cow. An insignificant animal, goat... (end)