This is illusion (Conv and Letters)

Expressions researched:
"That is Maya's illusion" |"That is another illusion" |"This is Maya's illusion" |"This is actually illusion" |"This is all illusion" |"This is also illusion" |"This is another illusion" |"This is moha, illusion" |"This is our illusion" |"This is the illusion" |"This is the illusion" |"This is their illusion" |"that is also illusion" |"that is an illusion" |"that is an illusion" |"that is illusion" |"that is our illusion" |"that is the illusion" |"that is the illusion" |"that is the illusion" |"that is their illusion" |"this is an illusion" |"this is an illusion" |"this is illusion" |"this is the illusion"

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discussion with Guests -- December 23, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: What do you mean by illusion? Don't talk nonsense. (laughter) If I gave you lump of cotton instead of this shirt, will you accept it?

Guest (3): I'm sorry. I don't mean to argue. I am sorry.

Prabhupāda: You are arguing?

Guest (3): I don't mean to argue with you.

Prabhupāda: No. If I say...

Guest (3): I'm trying to understand something, but you...

Prabhupāda: This is cotton. This is cotton. Everyone knows. But if I give you a lump...

Guest (3): Do you know that? Do you know that for a fact? How do you know this is not illusion? How do you know that? Do we know anything for sure?

Prabhupāda: What proof is that is illusion?

Discussion with Guests -- December 23, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: Just try to understand...

Guest (3): No wait. Wait. Just one moment. Cause and effect are all the same thing.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, no.

Guest (3): Yes. Sure.

Devotee: What do you mean they're the same thing?

Prabhupāda: This is cotton. The cause is cotton. Will you like to take cotton instead of the shirt?

Guest (3): This is illusion.

Prabhupāda: Not illusion.

Guest (3): Sure.

Prabhupāda: What do you mean by illusion? Don't talk nonsense. (laughter) If I gave you lump of cotton instead of this shirt, will you accept it?

Discussion with BTG Staff -- December 24, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: So the first business is to awake the conditioned souls from their illusory position, that he is thinking, "I am this body and anything in relationship with this body is very important." Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). This is illusion. We speak of illusion, māyā. This is illusion, that "I am this body and anything in relation of this body..." I have got special relationship with certain woman, so I think, "She is my wife. I cannot do without her." Or another woman from whom I have taken birth, "She is my mother." Similarly father, similarly sons. In this way, country, society, at the most, humanity. That's all. But all these things are illusion because they are in bodily relationship. Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Those who are passing on on this illusory condition of life, they are compared with the cows and the asses. So our first business is to wake up the general mass of people from this illusory condition of life.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 21, 1970, Surat:

Prabhupāda: ...... Not very long ago, say, about two hundred years ago there was a big zamindar. He was known as king in Krishnanagar. So he was charitably disposed. He went to a brāhmaṇa and asked him—he was a great learned scholar—"Can I help you any way?" And the pandit replied, "No. I don't require your help. I am quite satisfied." "How you are satisfied?" "Oh, my, these students, they bring some rice. So my wife boils that, and I have got this tamarind tree. I take some leaves and prepare some juice out of it. That is sufficient." So he was satisfied. That's all. But he was a learned scholar. Similarly, Canakya Pandit... You have perhaps heard. He was the greatest politician. He was prime minister of India. He was living in a cottage and just giving instruction. So that is India's Vedic civilization. Everyone is satisfied, self-sufficient. And now in your country, oh, you have to attend office fifty miles off. And because you have to take this trouble, Kṛṣṇa has provided with car. You are thinking, "I am advanced." You don't think that "Although I have got car, I have to go fifty miles off from my home." This is illusion. You are thinking, "I am advanced. I am happy. I have got this car." This is illusion. Yes. Gaurasundara was going to maintain, and he drives fifty miles off, Honolulu. The poor fellow had to rise early in the morning. You see? And so much haste.(?) Therefore: "Gaurasundara, you better give up this job. Just depend on Kṛṣṇa." So he has given up. What is this? Fifty miles going by motorcycle or motor car, how much tedious it is. But still, they are satisfied that "We are advanced." And because they have many cars, therefore in your country always there is that (makes traffic noise), "sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh," wherever I go.

Room Conversation -- December 21, 1970, Surat:

Prabhupāda: Now we are with Sambhu in Bombay. As soon as the aeroplane would come on top of the house it is just like thunderbolt. Yes. At least I was feeling like that. Vajrapa. You see? So this is called illusion. We are creating a civilization which is so much painful, but we are thinking that we are advanced. This is illusion. We are creating simply problems, and still, we are thinking that we are advanced. And Bhāgavata says that there is no problem. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ (SB 1.5.18). You simply try for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And then how I shall live? That, the answer, is tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukham. Just like you don't aspire for miseries, but it comes upon you, it is forced upon you, similarly, happiness also will be forced upon you, whatever you are destined to receive. So don't try for happiness or discarding distress. That will go on. You simply try for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which, without your trying, it will never be fulfilled. You have to voluntarily try for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, revive it. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). You do it—because you have to do it. Kṛṣṇa can force you to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. But He doesn't do that. He doesn't interfere with your independence. He says, "Do it." Therefore you have to try for it, not for other things. Other things, already there are.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Mayor -- November 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Indian Literature. That's nice. So their work is proposed to...

Guest: I think he should go there to study something, earn some money. That's all. (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest: (Hindi conversation)

Prabhupāda: Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tridhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ. Bhauma ijya-dhīḥ. These are nationality, ye bhauma ijya-dhīḥ, the conception of worshiping the land, bhauma. Bhauma means land, bhūmi. Ijya, ijya means worshipable. So one who thinks that bhauma, bhūmi, anything made of bhūmi, earth, worshipable...

Guest: I don't call it worshipable, Prabhupāda, but I have, I have more (indistinct) with this name, because...

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) This is all illusion. This jananī janma bhūmi, huh?

Devotee: I'm going for Guru dasa.

Prabhupāda: Accha. This ijya-dhīḥ, to worship the land of birth, but bhārata-bhūmi has special, it is pūjā...

Guest: That is my contention.

Prabhupāda: Not, not as nationality.

Guest: Not as nationality. There are more...

Prabhupāda: But the land where Lord Kṛṣṇa came, Lord Rāma came, Lord Caitanya came, that land is certainly worshipable. That is another thing. In that way...

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Man and woman. So if you want to get liberation from this material world, then that attachment should be reduced to nil. Otherwise, simply for that attachment, you'll have to take birth and rebirth, either as human being or as demigod or as an animal, as a serpent, as a bird, as a beast. You have to take birth. So this basic principle of attachment, increasing, is not our business. It is decreasing. Pravṛttir eṣā bhūtānāṁ nivṛttis tu mahā-phalam. This is the general tendency, but if one can reduce and stop it, that is first class. Therefore our Vedic system is that first of all a boy is trained as a brahmacārī, no sex life. Brahmacārī. He goes to the teacher's home. (pause—a devotee chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa over loudspeaker is very loud.) Who is this? Stop it. (break) The whole principle is, Vedic principle is, to reduce it, not to increase it. Therefore the whole system is varṇāśrama-dharma. Our, the Indian system is called varṇa and āśrama, four spiritual orders and four social orders. The social order is brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. Uh, this is spiritual order. And social order is brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, and śūdra. So under this system the regulative principles are so nice that even one has got the tendency for enjoy material life, he is so nicely molded that at last he gets liberation and goes back to home, back to Godhead. This is the process. So sex life is not required on principle, but because we are attached to that, therefore there are some regulative principles. Sex life... It is said in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that

puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etaṁ

tayor mitho hṛdaya-granthim āhuḥ

ato gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair

janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti

(SB 5.5.8)

It is said that this is the basic principle of material life: attachment for man or woman. And when they are united, when a man and a woman is united, that attachment becomes increased. And that increased attachment will induce him for gṛha, means home; kṣetra, means land; suta, means children; āpta, friendship, or society; and vitta, vitta means money. In this way, gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittaiḥ, he becomes entangled. Janasya moho 'yam. This is the illusion. And by this illusion he becomes ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8), "I am this body, and anything in relationship with this body, that is mine."

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: ..... One who is controlled by māyā, he's thinking himself master, but he's servant. And a devotee, he'll never think himself, "I am master." "I am servant." That is the difference between māyā and not māyā. He at least knows that "I am never master. I am always servant." But these rascals, they think that they are master when actually they are servant. That is the difference. That is the difference. When a servant is thinking, "I am master," that is called illusion. And when a servant thinks "I am servant," that is not illusion; that is mukti. That is liberation. Because he is not controlled by a false thought. Try to think about this subject matter. A devotee is never controlled by a false thought. He knows his position. Svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). Mukti, liberation, means to be situated in his own constitutional position. That is called mukti, liberation. I am servant, so if I know that "I am servant," that is my liberation. And I am servant; if I think "I am master," that is his bondage. That is the difference between conditioned life and liberated life. So these Kṛṣṇa conscious devotee, they're always thinking that they are servants of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore all, they are all liberated. They haven't got to endeavor for liberation. They are already liberated, because they are situated in their constitutional position. They're not artificially thinking that "I am master." Otherwise everyone is thinking, "I am master." Everyone is thinking. That is illusion. You cannot be master in any stage of your life. You must have to remain servant. That is your position. But when one thinks artificially that he is master, that is his conditioned life. And when one voluntarily surrenders to the supreme master, that is his liberated life. The devotee hasn't got to try for liberation separately. As soon as he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's representative, he is liberated.

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Guest (1): Does that mean you should not love your parents?

Prabhupāda: No, there is no love in the material world. You love somebody with some personal interest. So that is not love. Everyone loves. To be frank enough, a wife loves husband so long he is nicely earning, and the husband loves the wife so long she is beautiful. That's all. This is the love. It is not love. It is lust. Love is different thing.

Guest (1): How about serving the parents?

Prabhupāda: First of all you try to understand one point. Don't jump like that. The same thing is applicable to parents and everything. There is no love in this world. That is illusion.

Guest (2): Is it like service to parents without expecting anything from them because they have raised you, they have...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is your duty.

Guest (2): Yes, duty.

Prabhupāda: That's your duty. Just like to... I do not say that don't love your wife and don't love your parents. But I am just explaining the real situation.

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Prabhupāda: So Lord Kṛṣṇa's instruction is there. That is Lord Kṛṣṇa. There is no difference between Lord Kṛṣṇa and His instruction. He is absolute. Just like these boys. They are serving Kṛṣṇa. Lord Kṛṣṇa is not present. Lord Kṛṣṇa is present but you do not know how He is present. Lord Kṛṣṇa is present by His name, Hare Kṛṣṇa. This Kṛṣṇa and the person Kṛṣṇa is not different. That you do not know. You are thinking Kṛṣṇa is gone, but Kṛṣṇa is present by His instruction, by His name, by His form, by His quality, by His pastime, because He is absolute. Kṛṣṇa is never absent. Simply we have to see, we have to make our eyes to see Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is always present. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). Those who are saintly person, they are seeing twenty-four hours, every minute, Kṛṣṇa. Hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti. How? Premāñjana-cchurita. When there is love of Kṛṣṇa. Just like ordinarily, if you love somebody, you will find him everywhere. So you have to develop your love for Kṛṣṇa; then Kṛṣṇa will be seen. Svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. Just like sun. You cannot see sun at night, but when sun becomes revealed before you you can see sun and yourself and the whole world. Similarly, when Kṛṣṇa will reveal, being pleased with your service and love, you will see Kṛṣṇa, you will see yourself, you will see the whole world. So simply you have to... Just like one man is suffering from cataract. So by surgical operation make the eyes free from the cataract disease—he will see everything. Similarly, the cataract of your present eyes, material eyes, can be, I mean to say, relieved by Kṛṣṇa prema. Then you will see Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommended, premā pum-artho mahān. If anything has to be achieved within this world, that is Kṛṣṇa prema. That we should engage our life, how to achieve Kṛṣṇa prema. But we are not interested in Kṛṣṇa prema. So that is illusion. Human life is meant for achieving that stage, Kṛṣṇa prema, love of Kṛṣṇa. Then life is successful.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 28, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the material planet, material universe, is a real image.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Image. Yes. Mirage.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Mirage.

Prabhupāda: Yes, mirage.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No mirage is... Mirage is not the real image....

Prabhupāda: No, it is illusory. Just like I see there is water in the desert. There is no water. This is illusion. But actually there is water. Therefore I get the conception that there is water. Water is there, but it is not there. Similarly these varieties is here, what we see, the varieties, enjoyment, that is only like that mirage. We have got the experience of water. But we are illusioned. We are seeing in a false place there is water. Similarly, we living entities, we are meant for enjoyment, but we are seeking enjoyment in a false place. Or illusion. Just like animal runs after that desert water. But the intelligent man knows: "Oh, that, there is no water. It looks like water."

Morning Walk -- May 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So consciousness is also subject to body's changes, change of body.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Body's circumstances association. Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. According to association, atmosphere, circumstances, the desires changes. So that is, desire means consciousness. Just like our boys, they had different consciousness before coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like you are also scientist, there are other scientists. But your consciousness is different from theirs. Therefore you could challenge him like that. If you can create life by accumulation of these facts. He says that I do not know. He is not confident in his science.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He is not experienced. He has not seen yet.

Prabhupāda: He is not above the defects, four defects of conditioned life. You know these four defects?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Illusion, mistake, cheating, imperfectness. They are aware of the imperfectness of the senses. Still they are proud of their knowledge. This is illusion.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Because it has began from imperfect. Therefore conclusion must be imperfect.

Dr. Hauser: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But if we begin from the perfect, the conclusion will be perfect. What are the four defects? Explain.

Haṁsadūta: Uh, four de... Every conditioned soul, you or I, anyone, born in this material world, he's defective by four things. He has got imperfect senses. Just like you don't see what's happening beyond the wall. So this is imperfection of the senses. There are so many examples. The next thing is you're subjected to be illusioned. You may accept a thing for real which is not real. Just like we accept the body as self, but we are not the body. The body is a lump of matter. We are simply witnessing the changes of the body, but we are not the... So this is illusion. Then...

Prabhupāda: Mistakes.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: And these so-called scientists will reply: "Yes, we are trying. In future..." In future, everyone can expect future. But the hearsay is that: "Trust no future, however pleasant." Why future? In past we could not do. At present we cannot not do. What is the guarantee that in future we'll be able to do? There is no history that anyone has produced life from chemicals. What do your, what do you think, that life is a product of chemicals? Do you mean to say?

Dr. Hauser: That is what I've been taught. Yes. About the evolution of the earth. And...

Prabhupāda: Therefore, if...

Dr. Hauser: ...all the different stages of life.

Prabhupāda: Do you think that's a fact...

Dr. Hauser: It's not a fact. I don't know whether it's a fact. I... But that's...

Prabhupāda: Then that means illusioned. You are not confident, but you accept that theory. This is illusion.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: The newspaper is glorification of this mundane world. You have to transfer your consciousness to understand the glorification of the Supreme. This is transcendental literature. So people have got the tendency to read but they're glorifying this rascal, mundane rascals. So that attitude should be transferred to understand the glorification of the Supreme Lord. That will be (indistinct). That we are presenting. We are presenting a literature exactly like the newspaper. They are glorifying some Nixon and Dixon. We are glorifying Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference. That is the difference. If Nixon has glorification, how much glorification is there in reserve of the Supreme Lord?

Dr. Hauser: But these Nixons and Dixons and Hitlers and... They have a rather...

Prabhupāda: That is illusion. We are attached to them.

Dr. Hauser: Yes, we are attached to them also because they have power over us. They can persecute us and they can... So it's very...

Prabhupāda: No, the greater power is Kṛṣṇa. If you take shelter of Kṛṣṇa, they cannot do anything. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja, he was a five years old boy. He took shelter of Kṛṣṇa and his father was a great demon, very powerful. He wanted to chastise his boy. He could not. This is the proof. So you take shelter. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pape... (BG 18.66). "I give you protection." So people have no faith although He's God. He thinks God is less powerful than Hitler. That is his nonsense. If he takes actually shelter of Kṛṣṇa, what this rascal, Hitler, can do? But he has no faith in God. He thinks Prabhu Hitler is greater than Lord. Prabhu Hitler. That is the difference between the crows and the swans. The crows think that we have got food in the garbage. And the swans think that we have got food in nice garden, in the clear water. And that is difference even in the birds kingdom. That is explained in the previous verse. Na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo, jagat-pavitraṁ pragṛṇīta karhicit, tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham (SB 1.5.10). Read that, previous to this verse.

Morning Walk -- December 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: Kīrtanānanda, his argument was, when he was an atheist, he said that actually the void is truth, and all categories or all varieties are illusion. So he said that we may think that actually spiritual variegatedness is transcendental, but that's actually also our illusion. That was his argument.

Prabhupāda: So what did you reply?

Hṛdayānanda: I replied that if categories are illusion, then his talking is also illusion.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice.

Hṛdayānanda: So I wouldn't let him say anything else.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes, very good reply. "And you are also illusioned. Whatever nonsense you are talking, that is also illusion. Finish. Void, everything." Then what did he reply?

Hṛdayānanda: He said... I just wouldn't let him say anything. Whenever he tried to talk, I just said, "That's illusion." (break)

Prabhupāda: This reply we give to the Māyāvādīs. So we speak to the Māyāvādī guru, that "Whether you are in māyā? Because everything is māyā, so whether you are also in māyā?" So if he says, "Yes," then how he can become guru?

Morning Walk -- December 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Citraka: ...newspapers, that now he is follower of Śaṅkarācārya in India. The queen of Greece. She's a follower.

Prabhupāda: Queen of Greece. This cloth is very inconvenient... (break) ...illusion. Accepting this illusion, wherefrom the idea came? Just like in the tailor's window, there are nice beautiful women or men standing. That is illusion. Actually, that is neither man or woman. It is doll. But wherefrom the idea came of this illusion?

Hṛdayānanda: Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Unless there is a real man, a real woman, how the illusory man and woman is there, doll? Illusion means which is not fact. So the fact must be there; otherwise how the illusion, reflection, comes? Illusion is exemplified by the mirage, water in the desert. So the man is or the animal is running after water, but that is not water. This is illusion. But that does not mean there is no water. This is the conclusion. Unless there is real water, how... (aside) You can give around here. How this illusion of water is there?

Morning Walk -- December 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is also... You see... In Vṛndāvana I showed you? The dogs were starving, but as soon as he gets another female dog, oh, he is satisfied. To have sex. Oh. You see. So is that satisfaction? He is starving. The belly has gone down, and still, he is satisfied with sex. You see.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's called illusion.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is illusion. Actually, he is not satisfied.

Karandhara: You once gave the example, Prabhupāda of the drunkards in New York.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Karandhara: If they just get a bottle of wine they are satisfied even though they are freezing and starving and have no place to stay.

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why don't you understand that? You are controlled always. (break) You are walking. This is also controlled. At any moment you can be paralyzed, at any moment.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So even I am not the boss of my body, then?

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is said. Why don't you read Bhagavad-gītā?

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

(BG 3.27)

He is being pulled by the ear, by material nature, but he is, rascal, thinking that "I am the boss." This is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni. Did you not read this? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. Puffed up in false egotism, he is thinking that he is boss. That is illusion. He is not boss. But he is thinking he is boss. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. One who is thinking that "I am boss," he is ahaṅkāra-vimūḍha. By false egotism and being a rascal, he is thinking like that. And because everyone is under that impression, therefore we say generally, "Rascal. Rascal." People may be amazed, "Why this gentleman says everyone rascal?" But prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni, vimūḍhātmā. Bhagavad-gītā it is said, "Anyone who is thinking that he is boss, he's a rascal." (break) ...Scientists struggle is that he wants to stop the action of prakṛti, nature. That is his foolishness. That is not possible. You cannot become boss of the prakṛti. You are under prakṛti. The boss of prakṛti is Kṛṣṇa. māyādhīśa.........

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: Highest standard of happiness, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is simply to be in your association.

Prabhupāda: Back to home, back to Godhead, that's all. This is highest standard of happiness. We are trying to take everyone to that place. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6).

Devotees: Thank you. Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. (in the car) They are, the so-called scientists, they are taking the effects as cause. That is illusion. Actually the soul has nothing to do with this, anything, material world, but according to the environment he is creating certain material condition. (break) I don't require liquor, but if I want to be intoxicated, then liquor is present.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: But Kṛṣṇa's disappearance, about having a māyā body that He left behind. A māyā body. Is that anything to do with Māyāvādī?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Māyāvādī means those who are in māyā, those who are thinking Kṛṣṇa as one of the human beings, for them, to delude them, He left the body. But actually He departed in His own body. There is no question of... Here is another... But just like this is also, this material world... This is also Kṛṣṇa's body. But this is interesting to the Māyāvādīs, the so-called scientists, so-called philosophers. But it is not interesting to the devotees. They are thinking, "This is all." Is not that? The scientists, the philosophers, they are thinking, "This is all. There is nothing beyond this." This is illusion. This is only reflection of the reality.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: False ego.

Rūpānuga: Very subtle.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rūpānuga: This process of identification with the body. So we identify with the body...

Prabhupāda: Ahaṁ mameti janasya moho 'yam (SB 5.5.8). This is illusion. He is not that, but he is thinking, "I am this." That is animalism. The animal is always thinking that "I am this body."

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Girirāja: So if somebody no longer identifies with the body, what is his perception of a painful condition?

Prabhupāda: He tolerates. He knows. Just like the same example. You are not the car . If your car is smashed, although you feel sorry, but you know that "I am not a car." That is the position.

Rūpānuga: So the pain is experienced by the consciousness that is spread all over the body?

Prabhupāda: That is false. That is called illusion. You are not painful, but you are thinking that "I am painful." But that is illusion.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is love. Just like you are being controlled by me. There is no force. Voluntarily, out of love... I am not paying you. Still, if I say something, immediately you do. Why? There is love. That's all.

Bali-mardana: One who actually understands the distinction, is it possible that he will still choose to be controlled by the material nature?

Prabhupāda: Yes, he has already chosen. But he's foolish. He does not know. He thinks that "I am now independent of the Supreme Lord." But because he's foolish, he cannot understand that you are not independent. You are being controlled by another agent of God. And because, although he's being controlled, he's thinking, "I am free," therefore he's in illusion. This is called illusion. Illusion means something which is not fact. That is illusion. So this materialist, the so-called scientist, he's thinking, "There is no God. We are independent." So many things, like rascal they are thinking. Foolish rascal, childish. And that is illusion. Ahaṅkāra-vimudhātmā. Therefore this very word is used, vimūḍhātmā: "befooled rascal." Actually, he's being controlled by material nature. So how to get out of this material nature? That is explained, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te: "As soon as that rascal surrenders unto Me, immediately he's out of control." Hare Kṛṣṇa. How these rascals, scientists, philosophers, politicians can refute this arrangement? Is it possible?

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. He knows everything. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ (BG 15.15). He knows what you want. And He's always... Aiye. He knows what is your want. Just like father know what is the want of the child. But the child never orders father, "Give me this."

Guest (1): Nowadays, children order. They...

Prabhupāda: No, he's simply surrendered to father. He's confident, "My father is there. Everything is all right."

Guest (2): Surrender then, that is not even my family, even I myself, I...

Prabhupāda: Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, "My family also I surrender."

Guest (2): Then there is no remainder, my family. When I surrender...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually, it is not... You are thinking... It is an illusion. You are illusioned that you are maintaining them. That is an illusion.

Guest (1): And illusion is māyā.

Morning Walk -- March 30, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now, we are, we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. So the, my eyes, my hands, my legs, that is Kṛṣṇa's. Do you see? This is sarvataḥ pāṇi-pāda. So if we understand this philosophy, that these eyes...

Dr. Patel: Belong to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: ...these... Belong to Kṛṣṇa. This hand belongs to Kṛṣṇa. But now, we are under the..., "This is my hand. This is my eye. This is my body." This is illusion.

Dr. Patel: Now this "my" should belong to Kṛṣṇa. Then everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Everything belongs...

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Dr. Patel: Ego must belong to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, so everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, with my hands, with my legs, with my eyes, I cannot do anything except serving Kṛṣṇa. How we can do? If the eyes belong to Kṛṣṇa, then how the eyes can be used for other purpose? This is real knowledge. That is explained in the Nārada-pañcarātra: sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). That is nirmala. Nirmala eyes. Brahma-bhūta. That is brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20).

Morning Walk -- March 30, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: But when the dog is there, he does not think he's suffering. He's just like that pig.

Prabhupāda: That is illusion. That is called moha, moha. One is suffering. Everyone is suffering. Suppose a big man, a minister, or the prime minister, or the chief minister, he's also suffering. But he's thinking, "Now I am prime minister." That is illusion. Nobody, nobody is here peaceful. Everyone is suffering. Because threefold miseries. That is the conditional life. And after all, Kṛṣṇa says that "If you are thinking that you are very happy, that you must know at least these things: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9)." How you can get out of it? You'll die. Nobody wants to die.

Dr. Patel: Body dies.

Prabhupāda: But these rascals, they do... say, "Death is natural." But why don't you like to die? That is suffering. But he thinks, "No, no, it is good." But as soon as I say, "I shall kill you," "No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't kill me. Don't kill me." He does not like to die, but...

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because... This Bombay city is important because there are so many para-prakṛtis. If there was no living entity, who cares for the Bombay city?

Dr. Patel: So living entity is the para-prakṛti.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mr. Sar: Oh, living entity is the para-prakṛti.

Prabhupāda: Para. But prakṛti. But it is prakṛti. It is not puruṣa. Therefore this prakṛti is trying to become puruṣa here. That is illusion.

Dr. Patel: Or, or people calling prakṛti as puruṣa is Māyāvāda.

Prabhupāda: Eh? No, no. Prakṛti, jīva, yayedaṁ dhāryate ja... They are working... They are trying to enjoy. But... They are trying to be enjoyer. But that is not possible. Prakṛti is enjoyed. Just like strī-puruṣa. Puruṣa is enjoyer, and strī is enjoyed. Similarly, prakṛti is used for the satisfaction of the puruṣa. So if the jīva is prakṛti, then the puruṣa, puruṣa is the Supreme Person. Therefore his business is to satisfy the Supreme Purusa. This is bhakti-yoga.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This is material... Tathā gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta. Apta: friends. I must show: "Just see how I have got big house, nice wife, good bank balance. Come and see. And just glorify me, 'Oh, you are very successful. Although you are going to be dog next life.' " This is going on. Atho gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vitta janasya moho 'yam. This is illusion. This is illusion. Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti: (SB 5.5.8) "Now I am such and such big man, minister." That's all. And he's... The minister is going to be dog next life. You see? That he does not know. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmā... (BG 3.27).

Dr. Patel: I don't think they should be dog, become dog. They should become hogs.

Prabhupāda: Yes, dog or hog, but the same. There is no much difference. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ (SB 2.3.19). These animals have been especially mentioned. Śva means dog, and viḍ-varāha means hog. Śva viḍ-varā...

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Dhanañjaya: They want to dominate over the material energy.

Prabhupāda: What is that dominate? One kick will finish everything. That is illusion. They are thinking, "We are going to dominate," but they are dominated always. Therefore, because they have no intelligence, they cannot understand. One earthquake can finish all this. All go down immediately. So what is that dominate? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ kar... (BG 3.27). The prakṛti, nature, is giving chance just like father and mother give chance that the children pile up stone and sand. "Let them play." Similarly prakṛti, mother prakṛti, nature, giving all this, "Let this rascal play like that. What can be done?" He does not know that "After this piling of stones and bricks, I will have to leave this place. And I do not know where I am going." So less intelligence. And they do not know what he is. He is thinking, "I am this body," but this body will be finished. That's all. "I was zero. I assumed some body. Now again I shall become zero." That's all. Śūnyavādī. Nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādī. It is covered? (break) ...viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Durāśayā, some utopian hope of becoming happy. This is called durāśayā.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Satsvarūpa: Then the next question is where do you get your knowledge. Like that boy asked in the airport.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet. Go to guru. Guru. Yes. (indistinct) Who is guru? Śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham: who has heard from the Vedas perfect knowledge and who is fixed up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is guru. Everything is there. Immediate answer is tad-vijñānārtham. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This life is for inquiring where shall I go for knowledge? Athāto brahma-jiñāsā.

tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet

samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham

(MU 1.2.12)

Everything is there. When they were building this costly skyscraper, they forgot that this skyscraper will be the same fate as there were big, big Roman buildings two thousand years ago. Because I will have to leave. Although the building is very solid, it will not be destroyed within five thousand years, but you are not going to live here for five thousand years. You can live for fifty years sir. Then go away. Then it will be relic. That's all. So why don't you make guarantee, that "I have made this strong building to stand for five thousand... Let me live also." Where is your that knowledge? This is illusion. They know it, that "I shall not be able to live in this house. I shall not get the duration of life as big as this building will have. Then why am I wasting my energy in this way? I shall be zero after fifty years." What is this knowledge? You are not also going to enjoy. Then he is pleased that "My sons and grandsons and..." Who is your grandson? Who is your son? That he does not know. Nobody's son, nobody's grandson. Everyone is coming just like we have come, and they will go away. So similarly, they are coming and going. This is... No knowledge.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: He is such a foolish that he knows that he will not be able to stay in this, but "Why I made this house so strong, durable? I could have made some temporary house, some four pillars, that's all. But why I am anxious? But I want that a building should be so strong it will endure for so many years." But what about you? What is your guarantee? That knowledge, they will not take. This is their illusion. We don't say that you have done wrong. Utilize it. Be comfortable, seated, and use your time for taking that knowledge.

Dhanañjaya: They are constructing these buildings in defiance of the existence of God.

Prabhupāda: Not defiance. Out of foolishness. They have got some energy for better purposes, but they are not utilizing it for better purposes,—for some things which is illusion. That's all. They have got intelligence. This construction of building requires good intelligence, but they're lacking this intelligence, that "I have constructed this house very nicely, but I will not be able to live in it."

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:

Guru-gaurāṅga: In that agricultural report it said that if they were to eat all the grains that they give to the cows and animals, they could get twenty times more calories than by eating meat.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Wrong civilization, rascal civilization. And this is due to this rascaldom, nationalism, "This is my land." And at any moment he will be kicked out. Still, he claims, "It is my land." Ahaṁ mameti, janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). This is the illusion. Nothing belongs to him; still he is fighting, "This is mine. This is mine." "I" and "mine." Identifying himself with this body, "I", and wrongly conceiving that "This is mine." This is the basic principle of wrong civilization. Both things are... Nothing belongs to him. Suppose I have come here in Switzerland. If I remain here for one month and I claim, "Oh, this is mine," what is this? So similarly, I come as guest. Everyone comes as guest in the womb of his mother and lives here for fifty years. He is claiming, "It is mine." When, when, when it became yours? The land was long, long time before your birth. How it became yours? But they have no sense. "It is mine." "Fight." "My land, my nation, my family, my society." In this way, wasting time. These things have been introduced by these western mlecchas. In the Vedic civilization there is no such thing as nationalism. You won't find. Have you seen in the Bhagavad-gītā any word, "nationalism?" No such thing. This is the original ideas of the tribes. In the jungle there is... Just like in Africa there are still groups of tribes. This is most crude idea of civilization, nationalism. This is tribalized. It is nothing but development of just tribalism. And eating also the same. They are not advanced in civilization. This nationalism is another form of tribalism, that's all.

Morning Walk -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Illusion. You are seeing an illusion? Some tiger is coming. You are crying, "Save me, save me." It is illusion. This body is also illusion. But you are affected. That means you are experiencing. How you can say that you are not perceiving? And when in dream you see your beloved or woman and man, there is no, nothing such thing, but still, there is discharge. Why? Why you are not perceiving? How you can say that you are not perceiving. It is perceiving. What is the answer? You are perceiving every night...

Satsvarūpa: Yes, in dreams.

Prabhupāda: ...that you leave this body, you accept another body and do something else which you see. If that is illusion, then this is also illusion. Because in daytime you forget that night activities, and at night you forget the day activities. So this is also illusion. So therefore you are in illusion. That's a fact, day and night, day and night. That is called māyā. This is also māyā. But they have accepted this as fact. The gross illusion they have taken as fact. This is also illusion. You are thinking, "I am American," "I am Indian," "German." What is that? By one kick of nature you are out, the cat and dog. This is also illusion. What is not illusion?

Morning Walk -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Haṁsadūta: So there are also living beings, they accept the subtle material as illusion just as we are accepting this gross.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is going on. Therefore the problem is where is my real life? That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When one understands, the rascal, that "This is also illusion. This is also illusion. Then where is my actual life?" that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Haṁsadūta: I was hearing some statement about, from mediumship, of people who had died and they are living on a subtle platform, and they don't actually know that they have died. They are so absorbed that they mentally...

Prabhupāda: That is all... They may think like that, but this is practical thing. Try to understand that in daytime you are illusioned by this gross body, and at night you are illusioned by the subtle body. So both of them are illusion. Therefore if you are intelligent, your inquiry should be "What is my real life?" That is intelligence, "What I am?" That is... Sanātana Gosvāmī placed before... "What I am?" Ke āmi. That "I am simply hovering in illusion, gross and subtle. Then what is my real position? What I am?" That is real philosophy. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is called Brahman. When I am Brahman", so that is the beginning: "What I am? What is my position?" That illusion is going on. So the material life means he is in illusion for millions and millions of years. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgya... So out of many such millions and millions living entities, one becomes conscious, that "What is my real life?" That is awakening. Guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya (CC Madhya 19.151). Then he begins his devotional life: "My real life is this."

Room Conversation with Bishop Kelly -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That is also stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam by... That is also statement of Prahlāda Mahārāja, this boy devotee. He says, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum: (SB 7.5.31) "These foolish people, they do not know, what is their actual self-interest." So he says, "They do not know the actual self-interest is approaching God. That is real self-interest. But they do not know it." Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā (SB 7.5.31). "They have made their plan wrongly to become happy in this material world." Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). Bahir-artha-māninaḥ means external: "They have taken the external energy, the material world, as very important. And the leaders also, the so-called leaders... They are being led. The leaders, they are blind, and they are leading some other blind men without knowing that they cannot be happy in that way because he is under strict, stringent laws of nature, material nature." That Bhagavad-gītā therefore recommends,

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

(BG 7.14)

This is illusion, that they are under the control of the material nature... Just like the so-called foolish scientists. They don't care for God. They think by so-called scientific advancement they will progress..., all the problems will be solved. That is not possible. One of my students, he is double M.A. in chemistry and Ph.D. I asked him to discuss these things. He has written a small, a little book. Find out this book. Scientific Basis of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. Here, yes, this book. So he has very scientifically discussed. The scientists, so-called scientists, they are going to be as all in all... Hm...

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- March 13, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: ..... Our mission is to spread the words of Kṛṣṇa. We don't manufacture anything. Why should we manufacture? Everything is there perfectly. What Kṛṣṇa says, it is perfect. If I manufacture something, that is imperfect because I am imperfect. So how can I speak perfectly, or how can I give perfect knowledge? It is not possible because I am defective, I commit mistake, I am sometimes illusioned. Why sometimes? Practically always. Everyone is thinking that he is this body—he is Indian, he is American, he is Hindu, he is Muslim. That is illusion. He is not this body. Similarly, our senses are imperfect, and so long we are in the imperfect condition, if we teach, that means we cheat. I have no perfect knowledge, and still, I am trying to teach. That is cheating. Nobody should try to preach with imperfect knowledge. That is cheating. That is stated in the śāstra: bhrama, pramāda, vipralipsā and kāraṇa-patāvā. We are qualified with these imperfections, and therefore we cannot manufacture. Somebody says "in my opinion." So what is the value of your opinion? You are imperfect. If the child says "in my opinion," what is the value? Therefore we don't say, "in my opinion," "our opinion." We say "Kṛṣṇa says this," that's all.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Young man: I find it very difficult to know the difference between truth and illusion.

Prabhupāda: God is truth; what is forgetfulness of God, that is illusion. God is truth. Just like the sun is present all the time, twenty-four hours. But we say now there is no sun, at night. But that's not the fact. The fact is the sun is there; I cannot see. That is illusion. Not that God is not there. God is there. As exactly, same example, the sun is there at night, but I cannot see under certain condition. Therefore it is illusion. Our senses are imperfect; therefore sometimes we cannot understand or see God. If our senses are purified, then we can see God every moment. So, what is your idea of God?

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Education, if it is not for the benefit of the people, then what is the use of such education? That is not a good education. Education means something which will benefit the mass of people. That is education. To enlighten them to do something better. That is education. And this whole Darwin's theory is false. But people are giving too much stress. First of all, anyone, even Darwin, he's not independent. Just like Darwin has died. So, he is under the control of something higher. Nobody wants to die, but he is forced to die. Is it not? Then where is his independence?

Carol: That is the illusion.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Amogha: She says that is the illusion of independence.

Prabhupāda:? Yes, so if you simply in illusion you live, then where is your education? If you remain in darkness, then where is your education? Illusion means darkness. So if you are in darkness, now what is your education? And where is your philosophy?

Morning Walk -- July 3, 1975, Denver:

Brahmānanda: There'll be no water for their machines.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So they are thinking that "This is improvement." What is this nonsense improvement? You are dependent fully on other elements. What improvement will do? And Kṛṣṇa says, "This is a place for misery." How you will improve? This is folly, this is illusion. Kṛṣṇa says, "This place is for suffering," and you are making improvement. "Yes, we are advancing. In future we shall live. Nobody will die." Therefore they are called rascals. Persons who are trying to do something which is impossible, they are fools. Mūḍha. They do not see, still, they hope, "Yes, we are trying. We shall do in future." This is going on. This is the example by the ass. The ass... Driver is sitting on the back of the ass and showing one bunch of grass, and the ass is thinking, "I will get it." (laughter) And he is going on, and he is sitting safely, that "The ass will go on." So our improvement is like that. "Just little forward, then I shall get the grass." He will never get the grass. That he has no brain, that "I am improving; the grass also improving, going on." That they do not see. Now we invented so many airship. It was thought, "Oh, now it will be very nice. Within two hours we shall reach somewhere." Now there are so many dangers. Now there is problem, how to protect us from these accidents.

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ: (SB 7.5.31) "Blind man is leading other blind men."

Dharmādhyakṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, when the jīva soul desires to enter the material world, is that an illusory desire?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Desire means he wants to enjoy, but he is not enjoyer. When he comes to enjoy, he becomes servant. That is illusion.

Dharmādhyakṣa: So when the jīva soul descends into the material world, it is like a hallucination?

Prabhupāda: Yes. We get experience daily. In the daytime we have forgotten the night dream, and night dream we forget in this daytime existence. So which is correct? Therefore it is hallucination. (break)

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...is so kind that He is sitting in everyone's heart to give him good advice. There is no need of asking. He is only finding out the good opportunity to speak to him. (Bengali) Two birds sitting? So He is always eager to give you advice. He comes down to give you advice. So we are not taking the advice. That is the position.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sarvasya cāham...

Indian man (2): Hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15).

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ, He said. So who is taking His advice? Five thousand years Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). Who is surrendering? Hm? Therefore Kṛṣṇa came again as Caitanya Mahāprabhu how—to surrender—but still the rascals will not do that.

Indian man (2): Ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8).

Prabhupāda: Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). This is illusion. (break) ...two cases. One was my friend, and he was a big man. So one servant, he advised him that "You do like this." He was immediately dismissed. I have got experience. "You are trying to advise me? Get out immediately." Huh?

Guḍākeśa: Very good example. So if we try to advise God...

Prabhupāda: No, God is not so foolish that... But He laughs that "This man has come to advise."

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Carol Jarvis: No, I'm not unhappy. I'm perfectly happy.

Prabhupāda: No, that is your ignorance. Nobody is happy. That is.... Then it is the happiness of the dog. He is also thinking happy. The hog is also thinking happy. That is another illusion. The dog may be a very big dog, and he can bark very nicely, but he is not happy because he has got a master. As soon as the master, "Come here," "Yes." Chain.

Carol Jarvis: But all of these people have a mouth, and you do the same to them. You call them, and they jump.

Prabhupāda: No.

Carol Jarvis: That's the same as a dog coming to its master.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But to have a real master and to have a false master.... Just like a physician. He is asking that "Come here. Lie down." He is knife.... He knows that he'll make surgical.... He agrees. But if somebody, rogue, says that "I shall cut your throat," he'll not agree. That is intelligence. A physician is also with the knife, and the rogue is also with the knife. When the physician says, "You lie down. I shall have some surgical operation," he agrees to ply on his body the knife. But he'll never agree if he knows that "He is a rogue. He'll simply cut my throat." That is the difference. But superficially you see, "Both of them are with knife," but one for real happiness, one for false thing.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1976, Honolulu:

Devotee (2): Material life is great suffering. Totally insensitive that they take such suffering to be enjoyment.

Prabhupāda: This is their punishment. They are being punished, but if you think that "I am punished," they will die. You must take it "I'm enjoying." This is māyā's energy. They are being punished, but punishment they are taking as enjoyment. Illusion. The conditioned soul is illusioned. This is illusion. He is being punished, and he's thinking "I am enjoying." That is a concession. When he's punished, he may not be woke up with the unhappiness. Therefore he's thinking "I'm enjoying." Actually he's being punished.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, they cannot understand God; therefore it is impersonalism. It is due to their poor fund of knowledge. So most people are in poor fund of knowledge.

Hari-śauri: As soon as one forgets Kṛṣṇa, he's impersonal.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mahendra: Just like many of us, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we were thinking, that...

Prabhupāda: They cannot think that a person, how he can produce a sky? That is beyond their conception. This is their illusion.(?) They say God is all-powerful, but He cannot produce a sky. This is their defect of knowledge. If God is all-powerful, why He cannot produce a sky? That they cannot think. Yes, He's all-powerful, cannot produce a sky. Their intellect. Poor intellect.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Dr. Wolfe: I think, Prabhupāda, here the idea comes into "My children, my grandchildren" as if they were his.

Prabhupāda: Ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). This is in Sanskrit, or, you know, ahaṁ mameti. Aham means I, and mama means mine. This is the illusion. Ato gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). Gradually.... First of all, there is attraction, male and female, puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etam. The whole material world existing on sex attachment. Puṁsaḥ means male, and striyā means female. Their attachment. Even before marriage or unity, the attachment is there. Puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etaṁ tayor mithaḥ. And when they actually unite, hṛdaya-granthim āhuḥ, the hard knot in the heart, hard knot. Then after unity.... If, suppose one is married or united, then they want apartment, gṛha, then field. Formerly they used to earn money by producing food from the field. There was no factory. So ato gṛha-kṣetra, then children, then friends, then accumulation of money, ato gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittaiḥ (SB 5.5.8). With all these things, the conception of "I" and "mine" increases, and he becomes entangled.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Dr. Wolfe: Prabhupāda, is it not so that so-called marital love and parental love is possessive?

Prabhupāda: You call it any love, the real idea is how to unite man and woman, that's all. That is the idea. Real, basic principle is how to unite a man and woman. It goes on as friend or husband and wife or this or that. The real purpose is they want to unite. And that unity is for sex. And then both of them become entangled. Gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair janasya moho 'yam (SB 5.5.8). This is moha, illusion. What is that explanation?

Hṛdayānanda: Purport: "How money can be dearer than life is indicated in this verse. Thieves may enter the house of a rich man to steal money at the risk of their lives. Because of trespassing they may be killed by guns or attacked by watchdogs, but still they try to commit burglary. Why do they risk their lives? Only to get some money. Similarly, a professional soldier is recruited into the army, and he accepts such service, with the risk of dying on the battlefield, only for the sake of money. In the same way, merchants go from one country to another on boats at the risk of their lives, or they dive into the water...

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Śaṅkarācārya, he advised bhaja govindam, bhaja govindam, "Hey you rascal, whatever I have said, you just..."

Guest: On the one hand he reached the height of that intellectual exercise, at the same time he realized that bhaja govindam.

Prabhupāda: No. He is correct in the study. Because his mission was to stop atheism. At that time India was full of Buddhistic philosophy. Atheism. So his preaching was to stop Buddhism. Therefore, the Buddhists are śūnyavādis. So he said, "No, it is not śūnya. That is Brahman. This material world is false, (indistinct)." Lord Buddha said everything is false. He said, "No, the material world is false, Brahman is false, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. But he did not give any further information of Brahman. But at last he said brahma me govindaṁ brahmate bhaja govindam.

Guest: There's a very nice story about this illusion. That once he was walking and someone who knew that Śaṅkarācārya preached this illusion business, was riding on an elephant, so he asked his driver, "Chase Śaṅkarācārya." And of course he did and Śaṅkarācārya started running. So this man said, "Why are you running, since this is illusion?" And he said, "So is my running." (laughter) He said, "So is my running, that's also an illusion."

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Bhagavān: They are called Christian Democrats.

Prabhupāda: They can manufacture so many. Fertile brain in the tract of deserted world. This world is desert, and they have got fertile brain. They call? The fertile land in the deserted land, in the desert, is called oasis. So similarly, these rascals, they have got fertile brain in the world of desert, where there is no happiness. But they have got fertile brain, how to manufacture happiness. And māyā kicks on their face and baffles everything. This is the illusion. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā (BG 7.14). They, the world is desert, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15), but they have got fertile brain, how to become happy. And as soon as they make some arrangement, kicks on his face and he falls down. That's all. What do you think? Is it right? Sometimes you have got fertile brain. (laughter) This fertile brain, he will not accept. He'll be kicked out. Everything will be finished. If you want to be happy, then you have to go back home, back to Kṛṣṇa. That is the only way. Otherwise, your fertile brain will... What do you think, Jyotirmāyī? You are intelligent.

Press Interview -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is after sense gratification. No vairāgya. And he's in knowledge. His qualification is like dog and he has become a man of knowledge. (break)

Indian man: To go to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Finish this.

Pradyumna: Asaktir anabhiṣvaṅgaḥ putra-dāra-gṛhādiṣu.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Asaktir anabhiṣvaṅgaḥ putra-dāra-gṛha. Everyone is attached. And this is ignorance. This is illusion. That developed society, community, nationality. But what is that? That attachment. But that attachment has to be taken away. That is knowledge. But we are teaching people how to become more and more attached in the name of Communism, Socialism, this ism, that ism, nationalism. These things are not given. The truth in all this means increasing putra-dāra-gṛhādiṣu. Not asakti but āsakti. Increasing ignorance. Then?

Pradyumna: Nityaṁ ca sama-cittatvam iṣṭāniṣṭopapattiṣu.

Prabhupāda: Nityaṁ ca sama-cittatvam. We should not be disturbed by this worldly disturbance. Tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. Real business is how to stop this birth, death, old age and disease. But they are not concerned with these things. They are simply disturbed with little temporary discomfort. Then?

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: The freedom is in leisure time. They have a lot of leisure time.

Prabhupāda: Where is leisure time? You rise early in the morning and start for your office. Where is your leisure time? All imagination. I have seen in New York. They are coming from the other parts, starting early in the morning, two hours in the ferry and two hours in the cars, and standing two hours. What is this? Leaders, rich men, can think like that, that "I have leisure," but a worker, lower class, they have no freedom. That is illusion, and we are trying to give freedom to everyone. That is freedom. You are forced to go to the factory and work there in a hellish condition of life. Is that freedom?

1968 Correspondence

Letter to Yadunandana -- San Francisco 26 March, 1968:

Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated March 21, 1968, and may inform you that the horrible scene in the hospital is certainly ghastly. But we should at the same time know that this ghastly scene is in the matter of bodily concept of life. This is Maya's illusion, and although the spirit soul has nothing to do with this horrible affairs, but due to absorption of one's consciousness in the body, one has to suffer the consequences of bodily identification. So far we are concerned, we shall neither be sympathetic or apathetic in the matter of such bodily concept of life. Of course, it is quite natural to become sympathetic when one's body is put into such horrible condition, but if you are firmly convinced that this body is separate from the soul, then we may not be distracted. That is not possible of course in the preliminary stage, but when we shall be in a transcendental position not to be disturbed ever by such a horrible scene, then our position is secure .....