Expressions researched:
"that is krsna consciousness movement"
|"that is the krsna consciousness movement"
|"this is krsna consciousness movement"
|"this is the krsna consciousness movement"
Bob: But when you have some knowledge of God, then life is not so miserable.
Prabhupāda: No, some knowledge will not do. You must have perfect knowledge. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). Tattvataḥ means perfect. That perfect knowledge is being taught in the Bhagavad-gītā. So, we are giving chance to the human society to learn Bhagavad-gītā as it is and make his life perfect. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. What your science says about the transmigration of the soul?
Prabhupāda: The whole world is not serving Kṛṣṇa. They are serving Kṛṣṇa in a different way. they are serving Kṛṣṇa indirectly. Just like disobedient citizens, they serve the government indirectly. They have come to the prison house on account of their disobedience of the laws of the state. So in the prison house they're forced to obey the laws of the state. Similarly, all the living entities here, they're godless. Either by ignorance or by his will, he doesn't like to accept the supremacy of God. Demonic. So we are trying to bring them in their original condition. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Prabhupāda: If I say, "Birla, Mr. Birla, you are not proprietor, Kṛṣṇa is proprietor. So whatever money you have got spend for Kṛṣṇa," he'll be angry. Mūrkha upadeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye. If you instruct a rascal, he'll be angry. Therefore we go as beggar. "My dear Mr. Birla, you are very rich man. I am sannyāsī beggar. So I want to construct a temple if you spare some money." So he'll be, "Oh, here is a beggar, give him some money." (laughter) But if I say "Mr. Birla, you have got millions of dollars at your disposal. That is Kṛṣṇa's money. Give it to me. I am Kṛṣṇa's servant." Oh, he will... (laughter) He'll not be very satisfied. Rather, if I go as a beggar, he would give something, and if I tell him the truth, he'll not give me a farthing. Therefore we take this beggar's dress. We are not beggar. We cheat him as beggar. We are not beggar. We are Kṛṣṇa's servant, we are not beggar. We don't want anything from anyone. Because we know Kṛṣṇa will provide everything.
Bob: Ahh.
Prabhupāda: This is knowledge. Just like a child sometimes takes something important. He'll not spare it. So we have to flatter, "Oh, you are so nice, please take these lozenges and give me that paper. Hundred rupees, it is nothing. It is paper." (laughter) And he will, "Oh, yes, take. That's nice. That two-paise lozenges is very nice. It is sweet." So we have to do like that. Why? Because he'll go to hell taking Kṛṣṇa's money. So some way or other, take some money from him and engage in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Bob: And then he may not go to hell.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You save him from going to hell. Because a farthing spent for Kṛṣṇa it will be accounted, "Oh, this man has given a farthing." This is called ajñāta-sukṛti. Ajñāta-sukṛti means doing pious activities without knowledge. So we give everyone chance to act very piously without his knowledge. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Prabhupāda: The Bhagavad-gītā says after giving up this body, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), after giving up this body he does not accept any more material body. Then what happens to him? Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9), he comes to Me. So "He comes to Me" means just like in your country one who comes to you becomes citizen. He must have some particular qualities or conditions fulfilled, then he will be accepted as citizen or immigrant. Similarly, if we want to go back to home, back to Godhead, then we must develop our dormant spiritual qualities, and that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is the training period for going back to home, back to Godhead. So that after giving up this body or after this time's death, others who are dying they do not know what next life they are getting.
Prabhupāda: Unless one comes to the point of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we don't give any value to so-called education, advancement of knowledge. We don't give any value. Our only formula is harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. If one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he has no value. Immediately reject him. He has no value of his life. We are advocating Kṛṣṇa consciousness not on sentiment, on the value of life. That these men are being carried away by whims without any value of life. Let us save them. That is our mission. Just like a, a foolish person is going in, on the ocean. So it is: "Oh, why you are going that way? Where you are going? You are a madman." This is the duty.
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Similarly these rascals are going to hell and we are trying to save them. That's all. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Prabhupāda: Everyone is struggling hard for independence. Because that is the culmination of intelligence. So our problem is that we do not know what we are. Neither we know how to get out of the miserable condition of life. Therefore we have no intelligence. We are like cats and dogs. This is the conclusion. What do you think? Am I right or wrong?
Guest (1): I couldn't follow you.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guest (1): I haven't followed you.
Prabhupāda: No, what is your opinion, my description of intelligence and not, no intelligence?
Guest (1): I think you're right.
Prabhupāda: Thank you. (laughter)
Guest (1): But you know, my thoughts must be really not worth very much.
Prabhupāda: But we can give intelligence by which he can become independent. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Prabhupāda: So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice that we do not say immediately to stop. Just like "Cars, Profits and Pollution," the very nice description of these three things. But there is no suggestion of remedy. That he does not know. If he suggested remedy, "Now stop all cars driving," or "Stop this nonsense business," that is impossible. That is craziness. So we do not say that you stop it. But we say, purify it. Just like there is pollution. So pollution is there. You cannot stop manufacturing cars or driving cars. That is not possible. But you can purify the pollution. That is possible.
Popworth: It's possible to what?
Prabhupāda: Purify.
Popworth: Purify the pollution.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Popworth: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yuktaṁ vairāgyam ucyate. So everything should be done—that is called karma-yoga—in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna is doing. He did not change his position as a fighter, as a warrior. But he acted according to the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore he is recognized: bhakto 'si priyo 'si (BG 4.3). "You are My dear friend. You are My devotee." This is the process. So we have to purify. We cannot stop. That is not possible. The progress which is going on, let it go. But let it go, we do not want that, but it has come so far, it is not possible to stop it. But here is the remedy. You can purify it.
Guest (1): Another thing I would like to know very much is that I feel, but have no proof, that I have experienced in my, in the things I do, which lead me to believe that my experiences based on a memory I don't understand which, which belongs to previous lifetimes. Now is that, a fa...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, previous life there was. Just like previously, you were a child. Previously, you were a boy. Previously you were a young man. So similarly, we had previous life. Previous life means not exactly in this body but another body. But I am eternal. I live either in this body or in another body. Just like I'm a person, I live in this apartment or any other apartment. The apartment may change, but the person who lives in the apartment, he does not change. Similarly, I am spirit soul. I am simply changing different apartments. But there is a life, because I am eternal, where I haven't got to change apartment. I get permanent residence.
Guest (1): I see.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That we are preaching. That is spiritual life. That you act in such a way that you haven't got to change any more apartment. Suppose, take for example, we were living in rented house. Now George has given us this house. Now we haven't got to change. It is a crude example. We can live until our death. Similarly, so long you are in material existence, you have to change this body, different types of body. But if you become fit for spiritual existence, you get rid or get out of this entanglement of changing bodies. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are teaching our people that "you become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Live like that." (someone comes in) Come on. "Then you get permanent life."
Hṛdayānanda: They say that God should have created us so that we...
Prabhupāda: Why "Should have created"? He has created already perfect. Because you are perfect, therefore you have got the independence to misuse. You are not a dead stone. That is perfection. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante (BG 4.11). You can go anywhere, sarva-ga. You can go to the Vaikuṇṭha. Yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). You can go to the higher planets. You can go to the hell. When you go to the hell, it is your choice. God has given you all perfection. Pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation), everything is complete, perfect, and because you are perfect, you have got the independence. But misusing that independence, you are imperfect. Again, reviving your independence, you can become perfect, although you are imperfect now. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means raising the imperfect to the perfect platform. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Other fools, they say, "We are perfect now." In a fallen condition also, they're thinking perfect. That is māyā. Āsurīṁ rākṣasīṁ caiva mohinīṁ prakṛtiṁ śritāḥ. Kṛṣṇa has made you perfect. There is no doubt about it. Just like some of our students. All of a sudden, they deviate, go away. So what is that? Our movement is imperfect, or he's imperfect?
Prajāpati: These leaders, they must be above suspicion.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "Caesar's wife must be above suspicion." If the leaders, the priests and the executive heads are all rascal rogues, thieves, and within suspicion, then how there can be, I mean to say, peace in the world? This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement,... War was declared against Arjuna because he's, he was sinful. Therefore Kṛṣṇa declared war, "You must kill them. You must kill them, Arjuna." Arjuna was declined, "Oh, let them go. They are my brothers." "No, you must kill them. Don't talk nonsense." That is Kṛṣṇa's idea. That is Bhagavad-gītā. The whole Bhagavad-gītā was spoken just to induce Arjuna to kill the godless, the sinful. That is Bhagavad-gītā.
So many wrong things are going on in the name of nationalism, in the name of scientific advancement, and people are suffering. How we can see that? Everybody has bluffed so long. Now we have to stop them. This is our movement. You should ask, theologician, the government, "What kind of trust? Is it scientific trust, or simply...?" They do not trust even in... So-called Christians, they do not trust in Jesus Christ. But they are going on as Christian, as priest. Cheating and bluffing should be stopped. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. The rascals are flourishing by cheating and bluffing. This business should be stopped. So what do you think, Karandhara Prabhu?
Karandhara: Yes, Prabhupāda. It must be stopped.
Umāpati: Well, in a madhouse, a sane man is the only one considered mad.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So, "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." That is already there. So we have to act by the order of Kṛṣṇa, not by the votes of the madmen. Just see the fun. Everyone is under control. Who is free? It is simply illusion. They are thinking, "I am free." Nobody is free. Under the stringent laws of nature, and still, he is thinking, "I don't care for God." This is madness. This is madness. Already under the laws of God, but still, he's protesting, "No, I don't care for God. There is no God." So we have to save these madmen from further deterioration. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Dr. Patel: But ready-made is there.
Prabhupāda: Or ready-made. Ready made. So in the evening they should come, they should take bath, be cleansed, and give dress. Next day when they come, change the dress. Let them be habituated. They are coming...
Dr. Patel: In cleanliness, you give them impression of cleanliness.
Prabhupāda: ...voluntarily, to dance, to take prasādam. So why you should not take care of them? This is my point. We don't make distinction whether they are coming from Christian or Hindu or...
Dr. Patel: No, no, no, no, man is a man. I mean those Christians think that we are Hindus and they are Christian. We don't think because in Hinduism or in actually Vedic religion everyone is created one.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: I am in fact, When I go near...
Prabhupāda: Our, our, our mantra is sarve sukhino bhavantu.
Dr. Patel: That's right.
Prabhupāda: Sarve sukhina... Everyone be happy. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We want to see everyone to be happy. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Everything is there in the Vedic literature. All directions are there. So we have to... Just like when we are in danger, we consult some learned man or physician or a lawyer, similarly we have to consult the Vedic culture, how perfect it is. This way?
Jayapatākā: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Then everything is there. You haven't got to manufacture anything. And the Bhagavad-gītā is the gist idea of all Vedic culture. And our propaganda is to establish that gist idea of Bhagavad-gītā. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So therefore I am asking. "What is the politics of Kṛṣṇa?" Kṛṣṇa's politics was to have a king of the world which..., Kṛṣṇa conscious, a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is the Kṛṣṇa's politics. He wanted to replace. So the first politic is to replace these so-called leaders, demons. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: When there will be military march of Kṛṣṇa conscious soldiers. Anyone who does not believe in Kṛṣṇa, "Blam!" (laughter) Yes. The same process as the Mohammedans did, with sword and Koran, we'll have to do that. "Do you believe in Kṛṣṇa or not?" "No, sir." "Blam!" Finished. (laughter, Prabhupāda laughs) What do you think, Madhudviṣa Mahārāja? Is that all right?
Madhudviṣa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) What these communists can do? We can do better than them. We can kill many communists like that. (laughter) Then it will be counteraction of communist movement. And you think like that. "Why you are sitting idly, no employment? Come on to the field! Take this plow! Take this bull. Go on working. Why you are sitting idly?" This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Nobody should be allowed to sit down and sleep. They must find out some employment, either work as brāhmaṇa or as a kṣatriya or as a vaiśya. Why there should be unemployment? The same example. Just like I am, this body is working. The leg is working, hand is working, brain is working, belly is working. Why there should be unemployment? You just stop this unemployment, you will see the whole world is peaceful. There is no complaint. And they'll very happily chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hm? Nobody's working in this field. They're all drawn to the cities to work in the factory. Condemned civilization.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...Cāṇakya-śloka. The Cāṇakya-śloka has, paṇḍitānāṁ guṇāḥ sarve mūrkha doṣair hi kevalam (?). (Hindi) Now we used to make meaning like this, "A paṇḍita, he is qualified. The only defect is that he's a mūḍha, a mūrkha, doṣa, only doṣa."
Dr. Patel: No, Sanskrit, the, you... Some of the ślokas are so... That there is one śloka: keśavaṁ patitaṁ dṛṣṭvā pāṇḍavaḥ sa nirvaraḥ, kaurava hā rudann iti hā hā keśavaṁ ke... (?) Means water in the water. So means they are worried. That way it is right. But how can Keśava be, rather, falling and Pāṇḍavas would be sa nirvaraḥ? (?) (break)
Ambarīṣa: ...was a... Did he have some particular pastimes?
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) (break) Another rascal you told.
Guest (1): Yes. Correct, correct.
Dr. Patel: Condemn. (break) ...convert these rascals:
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Devotee: Prabhupāda, in New Delhi the government has banned the use of milk in the sweet shops and there is no more cheese or any milk products.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And there will be no more. These things will vanish. That is stated in the... Rice, wheat, milk, sugar and fruits, they will be no more available. You have to eat meat. That day is coming. But before that day comes, you go back to home, back to Godhead.
Devotees: Jaya!
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa and everything is finished, all this nonsense place, full of demons.
Indian Man (1): But generally, people, they don't go blindly. That is what the difficulty is. They want open their eyes, they want to have opened their mind, and still, they wanted to be Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Prabhupāda: No, no, if there is doubt, if there is doubt, why shall I accept a person who is doubtful? Why not accept a person who is without doubt? Kṛṣṇa is accepted the Supreme Personality of Godhead by all ācāryas. All ācāryas. So why not accept Kṛṣṇa? Why imitation Kṛṣṇa? This Kṛṣṇa, that Kṛṣṇa, dini-Kṛṣṇa. That is our protest. You accept Kṛṣṇa and be led by Him. The path is clear. (break) ...simply advertising that "You are searching after some leader. Take this leader, Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. "We have taken. You also take." We don't say anybody else, no. We are fools. We do not know if there is anybody. So we are fools. Let us remain like a fool like that and follow Kṛṣṇa. That's all. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We don't say that "I have got eyes, I have got full knowledge." No, we don't say that. Kṛṣṇa says. That's all. This is our version. We request that "You take Kṛṣṇa. You will be benefited." And actually it is being done. We don't present a false person. We present the real person, Kṛṣṇa. Now, if you are misfortunate, you cannot take, that is your business. That is your business.
Prabhupāda: If you want good society, good management, people happy in this life and next, then you have to adopt the principles given by Śrī Kṛṣṇa Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā. And we are preaching the cult of Bhagavad-gītā all over the world. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Thank you very much.
Akṣayānanda: But as long as there is material world, there will always be śūdras.
Prabhupāda: They are all śūdras. Not will be. All, everyone is śūdras. This movement is to promote the śūdras to the highest class, Vaiṣṇava, more than brāhmaṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Everyone is rascal, śūdra. (break) ...śūdras should be elevated, elevated, but when even a śūdra is engaged in the service of the Lord, he becomes transcendental, above brāhmaṇa. (break)
Prabhupāda: Where there is evolution, there must be degradation. Otherwise, what is the meaning of evolution? Why it should be stagnant? If you go, ascend, then you can descend also. Now, the Mr. Nixon was elected president, and why he's being dragged, "Come down." He is not coming down, but he has already come down, degradation. Nobody likes him.
M. Lallier: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And the more he sticks to his position, he's becoming unpopular. So his degradation is already complete, but because he's in the office, post, he does not agree that, "I am degraded." But from the public point of view, he's degraded. Is it not?
M. Lallier: Yes. But do you think it is possible now to, to predict, to prevent degradation?
Yogeśvara: He says now there's been this degradation of human consciousness throughout the ages. So do you think it is possible now to stop this course of events, to stop this degradation in human consciousness?
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are trying to stop this degradation of the human society.
Prabhupāda: What is this nonsense? Chemical evolution, you get the chemicals and make a experiment and produce life. Then your proposal is all right that by chemical evolution there is life. No, that is not possible. You have got all the chemicals. Why don't you revive a dead man by injecting chemicals again into life, where is your power? So why do you talk foolishly like that? This should be challenged that "You are foolish number one." Actually it so happened in California. One big chemist he came there to lecture the chemical evolution, by mixing of chemical life has come into existence. So there was one student, he is my disciple, Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara, he said that (break) ...first-class cheater, that's all, mūḍhā. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). (indistinct) ...people are suffering for want of this knowledge. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are trying to bring people in true platform of knowledge, not to increase death like these rascals and fools. That is our proposal. They are trying to obstruct us because if everyone becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious then they can't cheat anyone.
Prabhupāda: Perfect knowledge means what you say, it is correct. There is no mistake.
Guest (5): Under any and all circumstances.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is perfect knowledge, not like the scientists. They changes: "Yes, it was this. Now it is now changed." This is not perfect knowledge. They simply change. Therefore we say, mūḍhās. Perfect knowledge is that what you say, that is correct forever. That is perfect. Just like man dies. If somebody says, "Man dies," it is perfect knowledge. It is correct forever.
Guest (5): Suppose he is reincarnated?
Prabhupāda: No, no, "dies" means the body dies. The soul does not die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). When the body annihilates... Body becomes old. Just like this cloth. I am using it, but when it will be old, no more useful, then I throw it away. I get another dress. This body is like that. Soul is eternal. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. It does not die, it does not take birth, but because he is in material condition, therefore he has to change the material body because no material thing is permanent. Therefore the aim of life should be how to avoid this material body. That is real business. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. That is called athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is only business, how to stop acceptance of this material body. And that is very clearly and simply stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, janma karma me divyaṁ yo janāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). We can do that. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that you try to understand Kṛṣṇa, then you are not going to accept any more material body. That means there is no more birth, no more death, no more disease, no more, and what is called, old age.
Lady (Hṛdayānanda): She feels that your affirmation is somewhat radical because she feels there are many groups and organizations of religion and philosophy and so on that are dealing with these matters.
Prabhupāda: Then why there is no solution?
Lady (Hṛdayānanda): Therefore she is asking you, "What is the solution?"
Prabhupāda: Yes, so that solution we are preaching, we are trying to preach. At least one section of people should know the science of the soul. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Just like medical necessity is there, does not mean that everyone should become medical man, similarly, the science of soul is necessity; it does not mean that everyone will be the transcendentalist or the scientist about soul. But at least one section of people must be there who knows perfectly well about the science of soul.
Prabhupāda: Body forms... As soon as there is life, body will form by nature's arrangement.
Mādhava: May their theory be right? Like they say they come from amino acids and so many things. But...
Prabhupāda: That may be or may not be. Who cares for them? It is being already done.
Rūpānuga: They're simply describing it.
Prabhupāda: That is also... Because they have no knowledge, how they can describe?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We're explaining that, just like Śrīla Prabhupāda's example that the driver in the car. So inside the... We also say that "Yes, molecules are the ingredients to build the material bodies. But this does not mean that molecules are the living entities."
Prabhupāda: That's it.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is a driver necessary.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the first instruction of Kṛṣṇa. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāra... (BG 2.13). Dehinaḥ. There is a living entity, driver, within this body. That is the first instruction. Unless one understands this simple thing, he is an ass. There is no knowledge. Because everything is based on something fictitious. This is the first thing one has to learn, the scientists, that there is the driver which is missing. Or the driver is moving this body. And if the driver is educated, then he can move this body to Kṛṣṇa, back to home, back to Godhead. Then he becomes perfect. So we are educating the driver. We are not painting the tin car. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Guest (1): Even for a small experiment, I don't pretend that we know anything, whatever it is.
Prabhupāda: Actually that is the position, therefore our business is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa demands that, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Then Kṛṣṇa will give you intelligence how to become perfect.
This is the process. You take instruction from Kṛṣṇa, the perfect. Don't be proud of your paltry knowledge. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement that Kṛṣṇa is perfect and take knowledge from Him—you'll be perfect. That is our proposal.
Guest (1): That we believe in.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are not perfect. We can speculate only and that is not perfection. "Maybe," "perhaps," like that. No definite knowledge. The definite knowledge you can get from Kṛṣṇa, the perfect. Therefore all the ācāryas accept Kṛṣṇa. We have to follow the ācāryas, ācāryopāsanam. So in India all these ācāryas, Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Lord Caitanya, they accept Kṛṣṇa the supreme absolute. Why you should not? Are you more than these ācāryas? Then? That is the defect of modern education, they manufacture education although they're imperfect. They have no the common sense that "I am imperfect, how I am manufacturing education and becoming teacher. My becoming teacher is cheating because I have no perfect knowledge." Knowledge means it must be perfect, not "maybe," "perhaps." This is not knowledge. Definite knowledge.
Guest (1): But to bring some message of truth to the people all over the world which are...
Prabhupāda: Yes, the message is there, Kṛṣṇa's message.
Guest (1): Four billion, we need some people who will say, "I am the teachers."
Prabhupāda: No, that we are teaching, that you take Kṛṣṇa as the authority. Don't go to the rascals. All problems will be solved. But they are going to the rascals, instead of going to Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gata āntarātmanā. Who is always thinking of Kṛṣṇa āntarātmānā, that is real yoga. Yoga means dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). One who is always thinking of Kṛṣṇa by dhyāna, by meditation, that is real yoga. And Kṛṣṇa says also. He confirms the same, that mad-gata āntarātmanā, śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ sa me yuktatamo. Then he is first-class yogi. This bodily exercise is meant for person who is in the bodily concept of life. One who understands that "I am not this body; I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. My duty is to serve Kṛṣṇa," that is first-class yogi. So become first-class yogi, first-class recognized person by Kṛṣṇa. Make your life success. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Indian man: No, enthusiasm is there, but there are breaks.
Prabhupāda: Breaks means he is not serious.
Indian man: No, but there may be so many other things over which he has no control.
Prabhupāda: Other things, that is anartha. If you are really enthusiastic, these anarthas will be vanquished automatically. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 9.59). They are all Europeans, Americans, they are from the childhood accustomed to meat-eating. How they have given up? Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate: they have got better things to eat, therefore they have given up meat-eating. So the rules and regulation are there; if we follow them strictly, then everything one after another will come, the stages.
Indian man: Then it is not necessary that one should join the Kṛṣṇa conscious movement for that type of helping.
Prabhupāda: You cannot understand. I have said sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83).
Indian man: That's all.
Prabhupāda: That is... Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement should be associated; otherwise how you can understand Kṛṣṇa?
Guest: So what is the easiest way to see the Supreme Being with our own eyes?
Prabhupāda: That you have to take advice from the Supreme. The Supreme says, "If you want to know Me..." Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). You have to take the way of the Supreme. "Simply by devotional service one can understand Me, what I am actually, is." You have to take this way. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are teaching everyone this bhakti-yogam so that one can understand the Supreme and submit to Him, yes. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). When one understands by acquiring knowledge after many, many births, then he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). This is the first-class mahātmā. That we are teaching. It is not a sentiment. Most scientific.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The cities are already there. There are millions of people in the cities...
Prabhupāda: Therefore we are offering this place. Come here. Why do you not come here and live with us? Then this is... The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is... This is the movement, that you come here, live with us, and produce your food, produce your milk, be happy, healthy, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is our movement. Therefore we are creating New Vrindaban and farm, and we are trying to purchase... This is our movement, that we give you sufficient food, shelter, health, philosophy, religion, character, everything, purity. Come here. Why don't you come? They come here on the weekdays, and then fly away, go away. You see? We are giving such nice room, but they will not live here. They will go to the hubble-bubble of the city. They like to come here. Therefore they spend so much money for gas and come here. But because they are not accustomed, they go back again. Return ticket. From hell to heaven, and again hell (laughter) Return ticket-coming back to hell again, not going back to God.
Prabhupāda: The real problem is birth, death, old age, and disease. So we are dealing with that problem. Now... Does anybody like to die?
Sister: No, I don't think so.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But the death is there.
Sister: Yeah, death is there. It's inevitable.
Mother: It's inevitable, isn't it?
Prabhupāda: Inevitable, but you can avoid it. That we are giving. That is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that you can avoid this problem: birth, death, old age, and disease. That is our propaganda.
Sister: It's only if you haven't got rid of these impurities that you have to return, take on another body?
Prabhupāda: Just if you do not try to understand Kṛṣṇa, then you have to. Here it is said, "One who understands Me definitely, he does not come." So try to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And you become free from birth and death and old age.
Mother: But nobody off the street would go into the temple, would they?
Prabhupāda: Any way, if he comes in contact with us, he is gainer. We are giving opportunity, canvassing, "Come in contact with us." Just now, before you, one big man came. So I talked about first-class men, and he admitted. So he said at the last moment, "Now let me go and engage myself in fourth-class activities." So everyone is engaged in fourth-class activities, and we are trying to make first-class men. That is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
The philosophy of māyā, māyā means what is not. Mā-yā. Mā means not, yā means this. So māyā means the conclusion, as you have made, that is not. That is not the fact. So we are claiming, "America is our", "Australia is our", "India is our". Nothing our. Everything God's. The best conclusion is, "It is God's property. God has given us to live. Let us thank God, feel obliged to Him, and glorify Him." That is our vision. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You accept the real position, that nothing belongs to you, everything belongs to God.
Prabhupāda: So as you are training lawyer, as you are training medical man, you can train some men like that. It is possible. If you train from the childhood, it is possible. It doesn't matter from which family he is coming, but it will require, trained up. Just like you have been trained up as lawyer, it doesn't matter from which family you have... It may be lawyer's family or engineer's family. It doesn't matter. But training. So at the present moment, to make the society perfect, a class of men should be trained as it is described here. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And if the first-class men are there, people will consult them, people will follow them, the whole society will be nice.
Prabhupāda: A vulture goes seven miles up, and he can see where is a dead body. So even amongst the animals there are many expert scientists than our so-called scientists. But what that science will help? That science may help how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex. That's all. And that is being done by the animals. It doesn't require any advanced scientific knowledge. Real scientific knowledge is who is God, to know. That is meant for human being, Not this where to find out a fish very expertly. That is being done by a bird. Where is the use of scientists and philosophers? Therefore in the Vedānta-sūtra the indication is there that "Now you have got this human form of life. Find out where is God." That is real science. That we have set aside. That we do not touch. That we have left to the sentimentalist. Why don't the scientists do not take up this work very seriously, "If there is God, where He is? Who is God?" That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, athāto brahma jijñāsā.
Prabhupāda: So fourth-class men, they are prone to be degraded. If you don't raise them to become first-class, they must degrade. So that is the position of the present civilization. They are creating all fourth-class men, and gradually they are degrading. So now you should take up very seriously how you can create some first-class men. First-class, second-class, third-class also. If you simply remain in the fourth grade, technology... Technology means he has to serve under somebody. This industry, that is also the same thing. Hundreds and thousands of men are working. They are fourth-class men. And śūdra. Just like formerly in Indian village... Still there are. They are self-supported. Suppose there is a blacksmith. If you require some black iron instrument, you go there and he will prepare immediately. Say, an oil crusher, extracting oil. So weaver, self-supported. Now these things have been taken in larger scale. That is called industry. But actually these things are meant for the śūdras, fourth-class men. So the problem is that if we keep men fourth-class or increase only fourth-class men, so these things are automatic, the resultant action. Therefore, in the western countries especially, everywhere, all over the world, the attempt should be how to create first-class, second-class. At least these two classes required: good politicians, administrators, and good advisors. So this program we are placing before the world. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So I would suggest that in your country you are resourceful. You can take up this movement very seriously. And it is not expected that cent percent of the population will become first-class, but there must be ideal groups of first-class, second-class, third-class and the rest, fourth-class. That is required.
Prabhupāda: First of all, your existence should be purified by tapasya. Be cured of the disease. Then you'll enjoy. Enjoyment is your right. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). That is your right, but you are now diseased. Why don't you see to this? You are dying therefore. You are becoming old therefore. This is your disease. That they will not admit. In the diseased condition they want to enjoy. Then tuberculosis. If a tuberculosis person, suffering from tuberculosis, he wants to enjoy sex, that means he will die very soon. His life is finished. But he wants that, that "I shall suffer from tuberculosis, at the same time enjoy." Then all right, go to hell. What can be done? Enjoyment is the life, but when you are diseased, you must first of all "Heal thyself," then enjoy. That enjoyment will be nice. This is the instruction of śāstra, that you are working so hard day and night like hogs and dogs, but where is your enjoyment? First of all cure your disease. Then you will be happy. Simply working hard like hogs and dogs, you are thinking that you will enjoy. That is not possible. Hogs and dogs, they simply work hard, but there is no enjoyment. Is there any enjoyment in the life of dogs and hogs? They simply work hard, that's all. So human life is also meant for that purpose, that you will blindly work like hogs and dogs and no enjoyment? Still you are hankering after enjoyment. You should know what is enjoyment, how to do it. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Prabhupāda: "After death" means we have got this body; we'll have to leave it. That is certain. But after leaving this body, you are not going to get another body which will die. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. If they can manufacture some medicine that "You have suffered from diseases. Now you take this medicine—no more disease," then there is credit, no more disease. But there is no guarantee.
Prabhupāda: Still, if you say, "You are mūḍha," they become angry. Such mūḍhas, rascals, they are in the government service. And if you say that "You are mūḍhas," he becomes angry. Upadeśo hi mūrkhāṇāṁ prakopāya na śāntaye: "If a mūḍha is advised nice instruction, he becomes angry." He does not take it. Payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam: "If you give milk and banana to a snake, you simply increase his poison." One day he will come-(growls). You see? "I have given you milk and you..." "Yes, that is my nature. Yes. You give me milk, and I am prepared to kill you." This is mūḍha. We have to kill this civilization of mūḍhas. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). Those who are actually human being, you have to give them Kṛṣṇa. And those who are mūḍhas, we have to kill them. This is our business. Kill all the mūḍhas and give Kṛṣṇa to the sane man. Yes. That will prove that you are really Kṛṣṇa's. We are not nonviolent. We are violent to the mūḍhas.
Rāmeśvara: One day our men will be leaders of government?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Leaders means as soon as you make the public in your favor, you are leader.
Rāmeśvara: But they'll actually manage the government?
Prabhupāda: Yes, why not? That is Kṛṣṇa's desire. The Kurukṣetra battle was for this purpose. The Pāṇḍavas should be on the throne, not the Duryodhana. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. All round, not that we're simply chanting. We're fighting also.
Prabhupāda: So the leaders of the society, if they are serious about advancement of human civilization, they must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness; otherwise, they'll be baffled.
George Gullen: Well, we do not teach about these things...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the defect.
George Gullen: .... in public schools because we do not know.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now whether still we shall remain in ignorance or we shall learn this science and teach, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is not a sectarian religious movement. No, it is not that. This is science, scientific. So leading personalities like you, teachers, professors and other leading men, they should try to understand what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is and join. It is for the human society, it is not for a certain section.
Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa comes Himself to teach what is God and what is the relationship with God. And people still mistake. Therefore He comes as devotee, how to teach people how to approach Kṛṣṇa. These things are there. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, to understand Kṛṣṇa through Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Otherwise, it is very difficult.
Prabhupāda: So why people are unhappy now? Because there is no religion. They are neglecting religion. That one gentleman, he has written me that Tolstoy said that "Unless one dynamite is put underneath a church, there cannot be any peace." That means they want... The Russians, the Communists, they are very strict against God consciousness. Because they think so, that this religion has spoiled the whole social atmosphere. It might have been misused, religious system. That does not mean that religion should be avoided. Real religion should be taken. Because religion has not been properly executed by the so-called priest, it does not mean that religion should be rejected. My eye is giving some trouble on account of cataract, but that doesn't mean eye should be plucked out. The cataract should be removed. So that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Prabhupāda: We simply ask people that "You abide by the order of Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), and we say that "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Give up all other ideas of so-called dharma or religiosity." The same thing. But we don't say that you or me, "I am the authority." No, we don't say that. We say, "Kṛṣṇa is the authority, and you try to understand Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Prabhupāda: So anyone who is actually Indian, he should attempt to broadcast the message of Bhagavad-gītā and Kṛṣṇa. That is order of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
This is paropakāra. They are suffering without any knowledge of Kṛṣṇa. Give them this knowledge. That is para-upakāra, doing welfare activities to others. So that attempt is now being made, and people actually accepting. So it not a new role. The role is already there. Caitanya Mahāprabhu five hundred years told, years before He told it. But the so many swamis and yogis, they came here, they never introduced Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Now it is being done and people are accepting, naturally. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Prabhupāda: We are associating with different modes of material nature, and according to our association, sat, asat, good birth or low-class birth is there—either as demigods in the higher planetary system or human being in the middle planetary system or as animals, low class. There are three classes of birth. That depends on our association with the modes of material nature—goodness, passion or ignorance. So at least in the human form of life nobody should be kept in ignorance. The facility must be given. That is civilization. Every human being should have the greatest opportunity to make his life successful. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Prabhupāda: Duryodhana complained to Bhīṣmadeva, that "My dear grandfather, because you have affection for Arjuna and others, you are not fighting properly according to your strength." So at that time Bhīṣma saw that "This man is doubting about my sincerity." So he wanted to show his power, so he said, "All right." He knew everything, he was a great devotee of Kṛṣṇa, so he promised to Duryodhana, that "Tomorrow I shall fight in such a way that either Arjuna will die or Kṛṣṇa will have to break His promise." So he fought in such a way that Arjuna was practically vanquished. At that time, Kṛṣṇa took the wheel of the chariot and came before Him, that "Bhīṣma, you stop this fight, otherwise I'll kill you." So Bhīṣma said, "Yes, I am stopping my fight, because You have broken Your promise, that's all." This is the dealing between God and His devotee. There is competition of devotional service. There are so many things. But on the whole, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord, the supreme authority; His instruction is final, and anyone who can understand this, his life is successful. Therefore our request is that don't make unnecessary useless interpretation. You take Bhagavad-gītā as it is and act accordingly, your life will be successful. This is our mission. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Interviewer: What is the ultimate?
Prabhupāda: Ultimate is that you are spirit soul, you are being materially engrossed, you are creating different situations and you are being transferred to different bodies. That is different situations.
Interviewer: But for what purpose and to what end? What's the final end?
Prabhupāda: Yes, so final, that unless you are spiritually realized, you do not know what is the final end. The final end is that we are part and parcel of God. Somehow or other we are in contact with this material atmosphere. So our final aim is to go back to home, back to Godhead. Unless we know this and we practice how to return back again to Godhead, then we have to remain within this material world, transmigrating from one body to another. Therefore the human intelligence is meant for understanding the spiritual identity and the goal of life and act accordingly. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is an educational movement to enlighten the people from gross ignorance to the highest enlightenment of spiritual understanding.
Mike Robinson: Are you say that we were perhaps something else before we were born as well? And we keep coming back in something else next time?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Mike Robinson: And how long does this go on?
Prabhupāda: This is going on, this is going on, because you are eternal. According to your work, you are simply changing body. Therefore you should be educated how to stop this business, how to remain in our original, spiritual body. And that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Pradyumna: "One who knows the transcendental nature of my appearance and activities does not upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world but attains my eternal abode, O Arjuna."
Prabhupāda: So this is the process of becoming independent of the material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). This is the process. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, how to make one independent of this material body. Any other questions? Bring my beads. (long pause) My question is whether you like to remain dependent on this material body. Hmm? If you can live spiritually independent, whether you should remain dependent on this material body and whether to remain dependent on this material body is happy or it is distress? What is your realization? To remain dependent on this material body, is it very good or is it troublesome, huh?
Peter: Suffering.
Prabhupāda: Suffering, very good. If you remain dependent on this material body, then suffering. So why don't you become independent? That is the next question.
Parivrājakācārya: We can always tell by what people are serving, what they really are loving. If they are serving just their body, then no matter what they are saying, we know...
Prabhupāda: Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Officially, God, God, God, but result is dog. Love is there, love is... That is natural. I want to love. Everyone wants to love. But the, unless he loves God, he'll never be happy. So simply talking of love, and if the love is simply transferred to dog, then where is the love of God? So such kind of talking of called śrama eva hi kevalam. It is simply waste of time and energy. You must practically come to the platform how to love God. So it is a great science, and it is available for everyone to understand and act. It is a great science, one can take advantage. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is not a sectarian religious movement, no. It is a science, how to understand God, how to love Him.
Ali: How can a spirit become so ignorant?
Prabhupāda: On account of no education. Therefore we are giving education. Because they are in gross ignorance, they require education. Therefore this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, educational.
Atreya Ṛṣi: So we can fall as far as we want.
Prabhupāda: Fall or rise also. Why do you say fall? You can rise to the highest platform from the fallen condition. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That you are in a fallen condition, come to the highest platform and talk with God, play with God, dance with God. That is our opportunity. Now it is up to you to take it or not to take it. That is up to you.
Indian Doctor: There is research in parapsychology in certain municipality(?) of India, they have proved that (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: That they may do, a very great service, but we know it without going to the psychological process. We believe Kṛṣṇa. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), bas, finished. What is the use of going to the psychology and...?
Indian Doctor: But those...
Prabhupāda: No, no, those who are fools, they may waste their time in that way. (laughter) But we are not so fool.
Indian Doctor: They are fools to not to think that they'll become...
Prabhupāda: They are rascal fools because they do not take Kṛṣṇa's word. Kṛṣṇa says tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Why should we bother? Our mission is simply to propagate Kṛṣṇa's instructions. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We don't manufacture anything. So-called yoga, so-called meditation, so-called this and... We don't care for all this nonsense. Our only business is how to implement the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, the rascals may understand and be happy. That is our mission. We haven't got to manufacture anything.
Prabhupāda: First of all, he was talking like friends. When he saw "The friendly talking will not help us," so Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as his spiritual master. Then as spiritual master He said, aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase: (BG 2.11) "My dear Arjuna, you are lamenting on the subject matter which is not the subject matter of lamentation, and you are talking like a very learned man." Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. This body, either alive or dead, it is not a serious subject matter of study, neither a learned man laments over it. This is the subject matter of Bhagavad-gītā, or spiritual knowledge. Those who are not human being, according to Vedic śāstra anyone who has no self-realization, he's animal. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). If one is identifying with this body, "I am this body which is made of three elements, kapha, pitta, vāyu..." Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke. Tri-dhātuke, this combination of three elements. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). He's animal. So practically now in this age especially, everyone is identifying with this body. That is the basic principle of nationalism, communism, or this "ism" or that "ism." The bodily conception of life. And according to Vedic version, anyone who is identifying with this body, he is animal. So under the circumstances-(aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa—we are trying to revive the spiritual education of the human society. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. What is spirit soul, what is its identification, what is God, what is our relationship with Him, how to work on that plan. Then we become happy. Otherwise you may make various plan on material basis, it will never be successful and there is no question of happiness.
Prabhupāda: The parents, the parents cannot control their sons and daughters who is above eighteen.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We want to defeat these people legally because now it's a very big case and every paper in America is covering it. Every paper.
Prabhupāda: That means they're feeling pressure. They're feeling pressure. Now we should take proper steps, that's all.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They had a big press conference in which Prof. Sukla spoke up...
Prabhupāda: Hm. He has written very nicely.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Rāmeśvara said he got up and he said "How can... You are insulting our religion..."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, better that the Indians should combine and they should bring a case against these people.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And then it will be alright. That this is, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is genuine, and these people are trying to insult us. Bring a defamation case against these persons.
Prabhupāda: We should stop all rascal plan and should take the plan given by God. Then it will be... Everything will be all right. Simple solution. The God's plan is there in this book. Let us take it. Then everything solved. But "No, we are scientist. We are philosopher. We are big man, politician. We shall make our own." Do and suffer. God has given freedom: "All right." Yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). Kṛṣṇa said in the Bhagavad-gītā after explaining Arjuna everything, then He asked, "What you have decided? Your plan or My plan?" So Kṛṣṇa said, "I am giving you freedom. Whatever you like, you can do." The plan is there. Now it is up to us to accept it or reject it. If you reject, you suffer. If you accept, you become happy. So we are requesting people, "Accept it." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. "Then you'll be happy." But who cares for us? He is making his own plan. Therefore he must suffer.
Vāsughoṣa: They say that all, they're all the same.
Prabhupāda: "They say." Therefore they are nonsense, mūḍha, rascals. They do not know what is God, what is demigod, what is Lord Śiva, what is Lord Viṣṇu or Brahmā. They do not know. If a woman says, "Oh, everyone is my husband," then she is a prostitute. That's all. A chaste woman will say, "No, there is one, my husband. That's all." That is chaste woman. And if she is liberal, if she says, "No, no, everyone is my husband," that means she is prostitute. She does not know what is value of husband. In Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says, kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ prapadyante anya devatāḥ: (BG 7.20) "Those who have adhered to other demigods, they have lost their intelligence," hṛta-jñānāḥ, "rascals." They'll go. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ prapadyante anya devatāḥ, antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām (BG 7.23). Because they are rascals, they prefer like that. The public opinion will be taken out; Kṛṣṇa's opinion will be... Public is rascals. They can say all nonsense. That is not to be taken. You have to take—that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement—what Kṛṣṇa says. What do you think? Kṛṣṇa says, kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ prapadyante anya devatāḥ (BG 7.20).
Prabhupāda: The Gosvāmīs, they conquered over three things: nidrā, sleeping; āhāra, eating; and mating. These things are the clutches of māyā. More we have sex, more we have eating, more we have sleeping, that means I am entangled. The more we conquer over it, we are free. That we have to try. Whether I am in the clutches of māyā or not can be tested—whether I am sleeping more, whether I am eating more, whether I am more sexually inclined. He can test himself. And bhakti means vairāgya-vidyā, to conquer over these three things. So practice this. They are... To rise early in the morning and attend maṅgala-ārati is compulsory. It is part of this education, spiritual education. And not to eat more than necessary. Then you'll not sleep more. You'll find, if you observe fast, you won't feel sleepy. Have you tested this?
Gargamuni: Yes. I can remember.
Prabhupāda: Therefore ekādaśī. One day or two days in the month he should practice fasting, and then he'll be able to conquer over these things. These are all practical. So we should practice ourself and teach others. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And if he thinks that he's quite all right in this material atmosphere, then he's doomed.
Prabhupāda: Asad-grāhān: "There is no God. By science we shall do everything. We shall..." What is this? A mad crazy fellow. And this is going on all over. "Test tube... We shall... Test tube..." Simply set of madmen. And influencing innocent. The rascal, whole civilization, they are. It is a horrible condition. All rascals. And the big rascals, they are enjoying. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). Just like a big rascal, a lion is very big, important thing in the forest. What is this? He's animal. So they create importance of this animal. One big animal is being praised by a small animal. That's all. But the whole civilization is animal. And because the small animals are praising the big animals, does it mean it is human society? That is going on. The Mr. Nixon, (laughs) he's an animal, and Mr. John is praising him. That's all. Both of them are animals. Mūḍha. Big animals and small animals. That's all. So we have to stop this. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Prabhupāda: Why India's such big culture should be lost for the matter of these rascal leaders? This should be stopped. As Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma (BG 4.13). There must be ideal brāhmaṇa, ideal kṣatriya, ideal vaiśya, as Kṛṣṇa says. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is all-inclusive.
Prabhupāda: The father was astonished that "After so much chastising, still the boy is speaking the same way. He has not changed?" Hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta. "Incorrigible. Kill him." "All right, kill me. I don't care." They have got so exalted character like Prahlāda Mahārāja, Dhruva Mahārāja, all great personalities. Apart from big, big devatās... Svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ (SB 6.3.20). We have got small boys also as good as Brahmā, more than Brahmā. Svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ prahlādaḥ kapilo manu, prahlāda. Immediately comes Prahlāda also. Amongst svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ.... janako bhīṣmo balir vaiyāsakiḥ. Read Bhāgavatam, amalaṁ purāṇam. Read yourself, let them read. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. There is no question of cheating or getting some some material profit out of this movement. We have no such thing. Material profit will automatically... My Guru Mahārāja used to say, "You are thinking of material things so. We should come and fall down at your feet, 'Why you are worrying? You go and speak the real truth.' " (Bengali:) " 'Go and speak the truth.' " No compromise. So I never had scarcity of money. He is from the very beginning.
Prabhupāda: So this civilization keeping people in their unfortunate condition. Mām aprāpya nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). This is opportunity to understand God and go back to Him, but that opportunity is being refused. Therefore he is returning again to the same position of birth and death. From animal to man, from man to..., up and down. But dehāntara, that is very dangerous. Tathā dehāntara, you have to change your body. Stop this. If you are scientist, stop it. Continue as American forever. Why you cannot? Why you are so proud of your so-called scientific education? Then you are under control. You have constructed this skyscraper building. Live here forever. Why don't you live? Kicked out. In the same house can become a cockroach because you have got attachment. "All right. Live here as cockroach." Who can check it? Cockroach is also life. Dehāntara. The proprietor becomes cockroach. Can you check it? Nature will do. Now we are proprietor, next life a cockroach. "Live here in your skyscraper building." How much valuable time he has wasted by constructing this skyscraper building. He remains there in the photograph, and actually his life is in the commode. Cockroach. He is living in the commode, and his son's worshiping his photograph. This is... This is called ignorance. Very misleading civilization this is. So we are trying to save everyone from this misleading civilization. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Prabhupāda: Within this body, there is dehī, the owner of the body. Now, you will find so many scholars, commentators on Bhagavad-gītā, but nobody understands this first line. This is the fact now going on. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). If you accept this first principle... You have to accept. Accept or deny, it doesn't matter. You are young man. I say that you will become old man. You accept or deny, it doesn't matter; you must be an old man. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), there will be change of the body. So you accept or not accept, it doesn't matter. It will take. But if I am going to change my body, and if I am eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), then what is my next body, it should not be my concern. But nobody cares for it. "Never mind what body I am going to get next. It doesn't matter. Let me enjoy this body." This is animal civilization. The dog, at night barking, jumping, he is not able to understand, what is next life, what is rebirth, what is his... He cannot understand. But a human being can understand. So if he is put into the darkness, then what is the difference between animal and human being? So this is the problem. So we are trying (in) our humble way to give this knowledge to the world. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And our request to everyone is that "You try to understand the philosophy and cooperate."
Prabhupāda: Paropakāra. India is meant for paropakāra. India is not meant for exploiting others. But unfortunately the knowledge is... Sarasvatī jñāna-khale yathā satī. We have got the store of knowledge, but we have kept it locked up, not distributed to the world. They are called jñāna-khala. One who has knowledge but he does not want to distribute it, that is, they are termed as jñāna-khala. So we should not be jñāna-khala. In India there is storehouse of spiritual knowledge, and every one of us should make our life successful by assimilating this knowledge and distribute all over the world. There is customer; there is appreciation. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
| Page Title: | This is Krsna consciousness movement (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, MadhuGopaldas |
| Created: | 11 of Dec, 2008 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=66, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 66 |