Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā: cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). "I have created the four divisions of caste." It is not exactly caste; section, varṇa. So how you can stop? It is natural. So Bhāgavata recommends, Suta Gosvāmī is addressing, ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. This system of sectional division, this is... "He is brāhmaṇa, he is kṣatriya, he is vaiśya, he is śūdra, he is brahmacārī, he is householder, he is vānaprastha, he is sannyāsī." Or sub-section. "He is potter, he is washerman, he is this and that." You may divide it or not, this section will be there in every society. So Bhāgavata says that "You may be situated in any section. It doesn't matter." Either you be a kṣatriya or a brāhmaṇa or a potter or a washerman or whatever you may be, it doesn't matter. Everyone should be satisfied by his occupation. But how one gets successful by his occupation? He hasn't got to change the occupation. In the material world one has to change his occupation for certain kind of success. Suppose if you are a potter. Now, if you want to become engineer, so you have to change your occupation as potter. But in the spiritual world you haven't got to change your position, and still, you get success, spiritual life. That is the beauty. You haven't got to change. If somebody says that "Sir, I am potter. How can I be Kṛṣṇa conscious? It requires that one should be a brāhmaṇa, one should be very learned man, Vedānta philosophy, and one must have the sacred thread, and this and that. So I am a potter. I am a cobbler. I am a washerman." No. Kṛṣṇa says, "No." You do not require to change. Caitanya Mahaprabhu also says, "You do not require to change." Kṛṣṇa says that svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya. You just try to worship the Supreme Lord by the result of your occupation. Because Kṛṣṇa requires everything. So if you are a potter, you supply pots. If you are florist, you supply flower. If you are carpenter, you work for temple. If you are washerman, then wash clothing of the temple. Temple is the center, Kṛṣṇa. And everyone gets chance to offer his service.
This and that (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: (laughs) That's nice. That is very nice. Yes. If one gets Kṛṣṇa actually, he or she forgets everything. That is sure. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ nādhikaṁ manyate tataḥ. After getting Kṛṣṇa, nobody wants to get anything more. He is full. Svamin krtartho 'smi. "My dear Lord, I am now fully satisfied." That is the preaching we are making, that everyone is trying to love something. Either personally his body, senses, or then expanded; wife, children; then family, community, society, and country, humanity; extending. But there is no, I mean to say, satisfaction. Because the real lovable object is Kṛṣṇa. And when he goes to Kṛṣṇa, then, oh, svamin krtartho 'smi. The same example: just like you are feeling hunger. Now, somebody told you, "Give food." So you are trying to put food in the nose, in the ear, in the mouth, in the anus(?), in this and that. No satisfaction. You give it here, oh, fully satisfied. We do not know where to put our love. That we are teaching, best spot. Most valuable conclusion. But unfortunately, they are not...
Govinda dāsī: It's all right. Tamāla, it's ten after six.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, six. (end)
Prabhupāda: It was not there because in India there are so many churches, and they're supposed to be very saintly person. So simply to become a disciple of a saintly person is sufficient certificate. Just like in your country, marriage requires certificate. In India still, there is no certificate. The boys and girls, they are seated before the relatives and priest and elderly persons. They are offered. I am doing that. There is no certificate. But still their connection is lifelong. What certificate will do? That ceremony is so nice, the wife takes "My husband for life" and the husband takes wife, "She is my companion for life." They cannot separate. There is no history in India that there was a certificate issued. No. But still, their connection is so nice, that life long. Now, they are being westernized, especially I am very sorry to say that lately our so-called westernized leaders they are introducing this Hindu code bill, this marriage certificate, this and that. But formerly they weren't existing.
Journalist: Is there much divorce in India?
Prabhupāda: Yes. The modern, so-called advanced boys and girls, they are now after divorce. But before that, even there was misunderstanding between husband and wife, quarrel, there was no question of divorce. Take my life practical. I was a householder. Now I have given up. So practically I did not agree with my wife, but there was no dream of divorcing. You see? Neither she dreamt, neither I dreamt. This was unknown. Now they are being introduced.
Journalist: Yeah. Western culture.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: What about? Favorable or unfavorable?
Haṁsadūta: It was an interview with the devotees, if I remember, with Gurudāsa.
Guest (1): The article, original article, was quite favorable. It was all praiseworthy and all that. That is why these two letters say that author of that article is unnecessarily being sentimental and this and that.
Rebatinandan: That was the Sunday edition of Times of India.
Haṁsadūta: November 8th.
Revatīnandan: The magazine section. Two page particle with nice pictures. You liked it very much.
Prabhupāda: Oh, oh, yes, yes. I remember. She is envious, that "Why two page advertisement, publicity has been..." That's all.
Haṁsadūta: There's another letter. It says, "Your leading article on the Kṛṣṇa cult makes interesting reading. A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, the Indian founder of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, ISKCON, and his American disciples repeatedly told K.R. Sundarajan, the author of the article in the Times Weekly, November 8th, 1970, during their brief stay in Bombay that theirs was not strictly a Hindu movement. They explained to him that Kṛṣṇa was above all religions, the universal teacher, the supreme man, the purification of the Absolute Truth. If it is so, then why can't they go to Pakistan and China for chanting of Kṛṣṇa's name and ask them to vacate aggression? The soil of this land where the great master was born..."
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Vivekananda has influence here in higher class, among the educated class. They talk about Vivekananda and this and that, nonsense. In your country, fortunately, that opposition was not there. There was no influence of Vivekananda class men. Here amongst the educated class there is influence of all these rascals, Vivekananda, Aurobindo, and... That is one defect. But in the mass there is no influence. In the class, educated class. Because educated class means wine, women, meat, and Vivekananda allows this. That is the point. Vivekananda has no distinction of eating. "Eat any... All Brahman, all Nārāyaṇa. You are Nārāyaṇa. Goat is Nārāyaṇa. So Nārāyaṇa is going in the belly of Nārāyaṇa. What is the wrong? One Nārāyaṇa is going, being absorbed by another Nārāyaṇa." But he is not agreeable to be eaten by a tiger, another tiger Nārāyaṇa.
Haṁsadūta: They actually say that?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: "One Nārāyaṇa is being absorbed by another."
Prabhupāda: One respectable pleader in Allahabad, I said, "Why you are eating this?" We also find that he's a very religious man. So I inquired. He was just like our father; still, I inquired. He said, "No, what is the wrong there? Nārāyaṇa, Brahman. So one Brahman is going into the belly of another Brahman, Brahman being absorbed, brahmeti." So they have got so dangerous theory. But still, we shall not hesitate to kick on their face but because they are making a propaganda, it should be peaceful. But I become very much agitated with this nonsense because I know they are creating havoc. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Come on. (door closes) So many rascals. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: That says, or... Everyone says different way. Mammon or dog is expression in the faith. That is the test. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says:
- yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa
- cakṣuṣā prāvṛṣāyitam
- śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ
- govinda viraheṇa me
Yugāyitaṁ, "Every moment is just like twelve years." Cakṣuṣā pravṛṣāyitam, "crying like torrents of rain." Cakṣuṣā pravṛṣāyitam, śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ. "Oh, I find everything is vacant." Govinda viraheṇa me, "without God, without..." This is an ideal picture. So another test is, bhaktiḥ pareśānubhava-viraktir anyatra syāt. If one has become lover of God, naturally he will be detached to material enjoyment. Love of God and love of material world cannot go together. Either this or that. Just like Lord Jesus Christ. He never advised to, for economic development, for industrial development, or this and that. So many things. He sacrificed everything for God. That is one test, that "Here is a lover of God." He was punished that "You, you stop this preaching," but he did not. So that is love of God. He sacrificed everything. That is love of God. So the ideal is Lord Jesus Christ, and the follower must be, at least to some extent, to that point. That is test. So we say that you follow any religious path. That doesn't matter.
Prabhupāda: So this is artificial. There was Roman Empire, there was Mogul Empire, there was Carthagian Empire, there was Egyptian Empire and Greece and so on. They come and go. And there is a song by a Vaiṣṇava, kata caturānana, māri māri yāvatā.(?) There are so many Brahmās come also and they died. So this kind of empirical imperial, onslaught, they will come and stay for hundred or two hundred, and create some problems. There were...Just like there was Napoleon, there was this and that. So they will come and go. They will come and go, create some disturbances and go. Nobody will stay.
Journalist (1): Yes, but they don't seem to be improving society. When they do come and go, society doesn't seem to improve on the way.
Prabhupāda: If you cannot... if you remain demon then there is no question of improvement. You must be prepared to become... There are two classes of men. One is called god, or demigod; another is called demon. If you continue your demonic civilization, there is no question of happiness. That Hitler will come and this will come, that will... They will fight for some time, create some disturbance and go away. Another Hitler will come, another will come, another will come. This way.
Journalist (1): There will always be unhappiness amongst...
Prabhupāda: Our philosophy is you cannot be happy and prosperous in this demonic civilization.
Journalist (1): What about the Western religions like Christianity? That's been with us now for two thousand years and doesn't seem to have helped people to become particularly...
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: ...have no attachment. These are all nonsense. You cannot be (indistinct). A living being, to become desireless, how you can? I am living. I am not a dead body. Desire should be to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Attachment should be for Him. That's all. You have to change. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You have now attachment for sense gratification, desire for sense gratification. This has to be changed. Purification of desire, purification of attachment. Tat paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). Eyes, because it is diseased, you don't pluck out. This is nonsense. Cure the eyes of the disease, then you will see things right. The Māyāvādī philosophy is pluck out the eyes. Buddha philosophy is make it zero. That is also same thing, plucking out. Our philosophy is "No. Cure it." That is the difference. It is very simple. Which one is better? Just like a man is suffering from disease, fever, and doctor gives him medicine. He dies. Then the patient's guardian says, "Sir, he is dead now. You have given some medicine, he is dead." "That's all right, fever is gone. Fever is gone. Never mind he is dead." (laughter) These rascal philosophy statement is like that. Make zero. Make imperson. Then the difficulties of personality... Because they have got very bad experience of personality here. He had to become minister, he has become king and this and that, householder, all botheration. So make imperson. That's all. Negation. Personality is giving us trouble, so make imperson. God must be imperson, because as soon as we have person, there is trouble. They have got experience. (indistinct) as soon as they (indistinct), make it zero, then there is no pains and pleasure. The body, because Buddha philosophy does not give any idea of soul-bodily concept.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Yaśodānandana: ...you can't teach the truth with partial knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is not possible by any human being. Because any human being, his senses are imperfect. So how he can teach perfect knowledge? Just like you see the sun like a disc. You have no means to approach the sun. If you say, "We can see the sun by telescope and this and that," that is also made by you. And you are imperfect, your instrument is imperfect. Because that telescope you can say that you are seeing, but that machine is made by you, and you are imperfect. How your machine can be perfect? Therefore your knowledge of the sun is imperfect. So you don't teach about sun unless you have got perfect. That is cheating.
Bob: But what about to teach that it is supposed that the sun is 93,000,000 miles away?
Prabhupāda: As soon as you say "it is supposed," it is not scientific.
Bob: Yeah, but I think almost all of science, then, is not scientific. Because all science... (laughter)
Prabhupāda: That is the point.
Bob: Oh, I see. Is based on, you know, suppositions of this or that. So imperfect knowledge may be taught...
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Bob: Imperfect...
Prabhupāda: When we speak of Kṛṣṇa, we mean God. Everyone has some vague idea of God, but no clear idea. Therefore God descends to show what He is. If we speculate on God, someone will think one thing and another person will think another. This is the result of speculation. But if God Himself comes and shows Himself as He is and speaks about Himself, that is perfect knowledge. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is spreading that message. God Himself is speaking about Himself: "I am like this; I am like this; My form is like this; My activities are like this; My address is this and that—if you like you can come back to Me. This is the situation. Everyone can come to Me." All this information is there in Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. In Bhagavad-gītā God speaks about Himself and presents Himself as He is. We have simply to take that information; then we can understand God. As soon as we understand God, we can go home immediately. It is a very simple thing. God says:
- janma karma ca me divyam
- evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ
- tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma
- naiti mām eti so 'rjuna
- (BG 4.9)
"One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna." So God is there; that's a fact. Anyone can go back to Him and live an eternal life full of bliss and knowledge simply by knowing about it. When God Himself comes, all great ācāryas, stalwart men accept Him: "Yes, He is God." If we simply understand God, we make a solution to all our problems. What is the problem? Because we are part and parcel of God, we are qualitatively equal with Him. God is eternal, and we are eternal. God is blissful, and we are blissful. God is full of knowledge; we are also full of knowledge. Unfortunately we are hampered by this material body.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: These are some small earth, mound of earth taken out from the inside to make room for oxygen for the plants to breath.
Prabhupāda: No, no. These are stools.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, these are not stools, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There's a machine. They go around like this. And that makes a little earth taken out.
Prabhupāda: Ahhh.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say they'll be doing in the future.
Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. Future, that is not science. Trust no future, however pleasant. This is the word. What is this? Everyone will say future. Trust no future, however pleasant. You may think it is very pleasurable. Why future? If you say that the biology, chemistry is the beginning of this life, so you are now so much advanced. Why don't you create? Then what is the meaning of your advancement? You're talking nonsense.
Karandhara: They always say they're right on the verge.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Karandhara: They always say they're right on the verge.
Prabhupāda: Śilā you know?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Ah, huh.
Prabhupāda: And nora means mortar and what is called, pestle? So it is your śilā nora. I take it and break your teeth. (laughter) So take their, this jugglery of words and break their teeth. That should be the policy. "These molecules and this and that," so many words. You have to simply catch their words, and with their words kill them. That is intelligence. We are saying plainly. You say with these words which is their sona, mortar and pestle, and break their teeth. That's all. Tora śilā tora nora tora bāṇi dāntera gora.(?) This policy should be adopted. Otherwise, we know they are rascals. But if I say, rascal, people will say, "You are not a scientific man, how you can say he is rascal?" "Therefore I am flattering you that otherwise..." You haven't got to convince me, that (he's a) rascal. I know that he is a rascal. Now, because we have to prove that he is a rascal to another rascal, we have to take your help. This is our policy. Otherwise, so far we are concerned, if they go on lecturing for millions of years, we shall kick on their face. You should know he is mistaken. Let the rascal speak whatever he likes. We know the conclusion.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So in trying to make a house, we need certain materials to build the house.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Materials are already there.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So similarly when the living entities, when they come down to the material platform...
Prabhupāda: Material is already there. Just like what you are manufacturing. You are... Already everything is there.
Prabhupāda: Yes, "best of the asuras." Asura-varya. Varya means the best. And asura... Because his father was demon. So he was calling his father "demon number one." "My dear father, my dear asura-varya..." Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehinām. "Anyone who has accepted this material body..." Dehinām, he has said. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām. "They are all full of anxiety." Anyone. Not only human beings, even animals, birds, beasts. You'll see, when a bird is there, he'll always, that, "Some enemy may not come." Even animals. Even tiger is afraid, although he's so powerful. Elephant is afraid. sadā samudvigna-dhiyām. Why? Asad-grahāt. "Because they have accepted this material body." Then what is the remedy? Now, hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpam, hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta (SB 7.5.5). "They should not be satisfied with the society, family and love and this and that. They should take shelter of the lotus feet of Hari. Then they'll be happy." We are trying to be satisfied in this material condition, society, friendship, love and so forth, so on and we are after that. But there, there is no possibility. Unless you take shelter of Kṛṣṇa, harim āśrayeta, there is no possibility. The whole world is trying to adjust things of the society, friendship, love and material atmosphere. That cannot be. That is not possible. Only by taking shelter... Therefore Kṛṣṇa says. Not whimsically. That is the only remedy: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). This is the only remedy. There is no other remedy. But they'll not take. What can be done? This is the only remedy, harim āśrayeta. One should take shelter of Hari, Kṛṣṇa. Then he'll be happy. Otherwise it is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Make show. So we should not increase the show very, very much. Show shortcut show. That's all. Real business is... Āula, bāula, kartābhajā, neḍā, daraveśa, sāṅi sahajiyā, sakhībhekī, smārta, jāta-gosāñi, they have been condemned by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, smārta and jāta-gosāñi. Smārta-paṇḍita, very serious about performing ceremonial rituals, they are called smārtas. This Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, also Vaiṣṇava-smṛti, that is also imitation of smārtaism. It is called smṛti. So at least in Europe and America, they will never be able to take all these things. The things should be made shortcut; at the same time, they should be successful. So that is chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, depending on... As soon as we have got some time, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Either loudly or silent... As far as possible loudly; if not possible, silently. But the tongue must go, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. The tongue must work. And as far as possible, should be heard... That is... And officially, krkshaharama (Prabhupāda chants very fast with words running into each other indistinctly). Not like that (chants again like that) Not like that. That will not... Every word should be distinctly chanted and heard, not official. So stress on this point. As far as possible, people should be encouraged to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra and try to bring the ecstasy and dance. Even there is no ecstasy, dance, it will bring ecstasy. Dancing is so nice. Chanting, dancing and take prasādam. Take rest. That's all. Not that you shall take rest like Kumbhakarṇa. (Prabhupāda laughs) Just to, I mean to say, answer the call of this deficient body, we have to take little rest. But as far as possible this should be conquered. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. The Gosvāmīs, they conquered over eating, sleeping... Stress on saṅkīrtana, and let them chant and dance as long as possible. If they can chant and dance twenty-four hours, that is very good. That should be stressed. Just see, this boy yesterday, he came, he said, "Oh, I like this saṅkīrtana very much." Immediately. He was talking of so much, yoga and this and that, so many nonsense, but he came this morning. He said, "Oh, I will come again. It is very nice." Saṅkīrtana has got so power. Stress on saṅkīrtana, chant yourself, induce others, dance. Whole thing will be a successful. And especially outside India, these rituals and ceremonials, that will be simply artificial. They cannot take it seriously. But saṅkīrtana they can take seriously. This is practical. And if you recite all the Vedic hymns throughout the whole day they will join, but they will not benefit out of it. So why should we waste. Is that all right?
Śyāmasundara: His argument in the newspaper by other people complaining against Zaner's argument. Not members of our movement, but other people, Englishmen. "Zaner is a fool," this and that.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes, they have called. He is a fool.
Śyāmasundara: We'll bring them up. They're in the Times, letters to the editor.
Prabhupāda: And we have directly called him fool, rascal.
Śyāmasundara: Other people are also criticizing. They find other things in his argument that are not... They say he has to realize Bhagavad-gītā before he can criticize anything.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He does not realize. He does not know anything. You can read this letter. It is very interesting.
Śyāmasundara: To Zaner this one? Or to...
Prabhupāda: General, general. Reply.
Mukunda: We've also invited him to come here.
Śyāmasundara: No one defended him in the newspaper, Observer.
Prabhupāda: So other protests have been published in the paper?
Śyāmasundara: Yes. I'll bring them up to you. (end)
Devotees: Guru Maharaji?
Prabhupāda: Guru Maharaja, Dr. Mishra, and this and that, they'll go. They'll not go to the real person. The real person is strict. Suppose somebody comes here, if he comes to me. I shall immediately order, "You have to do this." But these rascals, they do not say that. They (say), "You pay me, and you become perfect." That is their proposal. So your money is very cheap. They pay and flock together. That is going on. That is called sumanda-mataya, misled. Manda, by nature they are rascals, and if they take some path, that is sumanda-mataya, again rascaldom. Why? Manda-bhāgyā, unfortunate, disturbed. They cannot find out. Therefore real guru has to canvass. This is the position. Shortage, alpāyus, they are not going to live for many years, and most of them are unfortunate rascals, and if they are eager to accept a guru, they accept a false guru, and they are materially disturbed. This is the position of the people of this age. So against so many disturbances and counter-facts, we have to preach.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Is it, is it also not the mercy of Kṛṣṇa that He has descended to incarnate(?) and...
Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore guru is called the, Kṛṣṇa's mercy-incarnation. Kṛṣṇa's mercy-incarnation is guru. Guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). Kṛṣṇa is so merciful, He's trying to educate from within, and outside He sends His representative to teach. So He's trying to bring all these living entities back to home, back to Godhead. Two ways, from inside, and outside. His propaganda is going on. His propaganda is going on.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Mechanical.
Dr. Patel: So the vartas (?) also get it, these śakti-vartas. They get this by tantric yoga. I can't still understand how tantras, by following, I mean, drawing particular figures and writing down those figures, you can get powers. This is very common in Bengal side, this tantra. No? I read a book on tantra by Sir Arthur Avalon, and he described so wonderful powers come by this and that. I don't know whether it is a fact or not.
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is materialism. Anyone who is after powers, that is materialism.
Dr. Patel: I could not believe in it. How could it come?
Prabhupāda: It can come.
Dr. Patel: Not so.
Prabhupāda: Now, this is also tantra. Just like nowadays, they were flying sputnik, and from here controlling everything. Millions and millions of miles...
Dr. Patel: But there is a science behind it, no?
Prabhupāda: So that is also a kind of science, subtle science.
Dr. Patel: This writing, writing letters, two and two, and, and...
Prabhupāda: Therefore we...
Siddha-svarūpānanda: ...of anything.
Prabhupāda: ...call them rascals and fools. They may advertise themselves as scientists, but we take them as rascals and fools.
Siddha-svarūpānanda: Some of them so much want to be God, they're thinking they're going to create life and make bodies and this and that.
Prabhupāda: The only question is that first of all, keep your life. Then you cure another life. Life in you is already there. Now keep it. Protect it by some machine or by some chemical. Then you talk all this nonsense. What do you think, Viṣṇujana Mahārāja?
Viṣṇujana: At the fairs in the United States, they have exhibits of what the scientists are doing, and one scientist has actually invented a machine... Costs one hundred thousand dollars, and this machine can take the head of a man from his body and keep the brain cells still going, and they expect that this machine, they expect, they haven't done it to anyone because no one will do it...
Prabhupāda: That expectation is always there. Any fool can expect anything. That is another thing.
Viṣṇujana: But they've done it with goat head.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is open, but an intelligent person will think that "Why shall I go to Svarga-loka? Why shall I remain here? Why shall I go to Pitṛloka? Let me go direct to Kṛṣṇa." Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). That is intelligent, to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, to take to Kṛṣṇa wholeheartedly. That is real intelligence. Otherwise mūḍha, whatever he may be.
Dr. Patel: Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26).
Prabhupāda: Ah. And to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, it does not require any expensive material. If you have nothing to offer, you can offer patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ. He will be satisfied. And performing this yajña and other, oh, you have got to collect so much ghee, so much grain, so much mantras, so many learned brāhmaṇas and this and that. You have nothing to do. Anywhere, any part of the world, universal. Any man, poor man, rich man, can offer Kṛṣṇa whatever He has got. Kṛṣṇa is satisfied.
Dr. Patel: Tad ahaṁ bhakty-upahṛtam.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Bhaktya-upahṛtam aśnāmi prayatātmanaḥ. Yes. "Because he has offered Me with faith and devotion and love, I accept it." So when Kṛṣṇa eats something from your hand, then what remains? You gain perfection. All perfection is there. If Kṛṣṇa is accepting something from your hand, "Yes, I will eat it." Then?
Indian Man (2): Arjuna also says that he cannot see God. He saw the light only.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He was speaking with Kṛṣṇa. Still, he said that "I cannot see You." That is a fact. (break) Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). If you have got qualified eyes, you can see Kṛṣṇa always, twenty-four hours. So we have to qualify, purify. Sarvopādhi-vinir... You are seeing. You are trying to see God as American, as Indian, as this and that. With that eyes you cannot see. When you are neither American nor Indian nor brāhmaṇa nor śūdra, you are pure spirit, then you can see. They want to remain with this designation-body and want to see God. That is not possible. To enter fire you have to become fire. Otherwise, it will be not possible to enter fire. So without Brahman realization, you cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). (break) ...is the same. Quality, it is same. It is salt, salty. And the whole ocean is also salty. That is tat tvam asi. "You are also salty," if I say. If the drop of the water, I say that "This is also salty," that is tat tvam asi. Not that he has become the whole sea. This is rascaldom. (break) ...God create another ocean in the sky. Then you are God. When there is some tooth pain, you go to the doctor, and you are God. Just see how much nonsense they are. As soon as there is tooth pain, "Oh, oh. Just now I am not God, I am patient." So these things are going on. I have seen so many gods. I have seen one that Dr. Misra. When he had a toothache, "Ohhh, oh." You see? (break) ...cheap philosophy, by misunderstanding the whole world has become atheists, all rascals. Atheist means rascal number one, mūḍhāḥ, āsuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. As soon as one becomes atheist, he is rascal number one. (break)
Indian Man (1): ...just in the beginning, when they are in the world, the atheists...
Prabhupāda: They are all śūdras. Not will be. All, everyone is śūdras. This movement is to promote the śūdras to the highest class, Vaiṣṇava, more than brāhmaṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Everyone is rascal, śūdra. (break) ...śūdras should be elevated, elevated, but when even a śūdra is engaged in the service of the Lord, he becomes transcendental, above brāhmaṇa. (break)
Akṣayānanda: It said that eight people were shot in Aurangabad with student riots, and the police got their guns and they started to shoot all the people. The same thing is happening in Gaya. The students are protesting against this and that. It said that they were protesting against degradation.
Prabhupāda: Degradation?
Akṣayānanda: Yes. That is supposed to be the reason for their rebellion. They are protesting against corruption and degradation.
Prabhupāda: But the rascals, why they themselves do not, be not reformed? Protesting against degradation. Why you are degraded? What is that protest? You are degraded. You reform yourself. That they will not do. Protest against degradation. Are you not degraded? Are you pure? So what is the use of protesting? You reform yourself. They can protest in this way that our guardians, our government, they have degraded ourselves. But that's all right. But guardian is a fool, your father is a fool. But why you are remaining as a fool? That they will not an... If we say, "Now you come to us. We shall raise you from degradation," that they will not do. That they will not agree. Now go to them, all these students, that "You are thinking that you are degraded. So why you should be, mean dog...? Come on, we shall reform you. We shall give you the highest post, brahminical post. Give up these four principles." That they will not do. Will they do?
Prabhupāda: Well, people are now shameless, you see? They are being kicked in so many ways. We are giving the prescription, "Here is the remedy," but they are not taking to it. But they will take it. Some of them will take it, provided you remain also ideal. If you become also degraded, then who will take it? Ideal character, ideal behavior, ideal preaching. People will appreciate. (break) ...pure character or position, people will take, in any condition. There may be revolution or no revolution. They will take it. (break) ...that our movement is actually good. They will take in any condition. That standard we must maintain. Somebody... Yes, Balavanta, when he was speaking against smoking, one candidate—he was important man—he was smoking. Immediately he wanted to hide. (laughter) So immediate effect was there. He understood that "Yes, this is bad habit." So people will take it, any condition, provided you are ideal. Āpani ācari prabhu jīveri śikṣāya. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement. He teaches others by behaving Himself. "Example is better than precept." If you cannot rise early in the morning, then how can you ask others to rise early in the morning? What is the effect? There is no effect. We have got business early in the morning, to attend maṅgala ārati. And if you sleep yourself and teach others, so who will take it? (break) ...we have introduced. Very, very simple thing. But still, if he cannot... (break) ...(indistinct) Mahārāja. He is, he admitted him, smārta paṇḍita, but he cannot rise early in the morning. Never. And he is imitating the smārta paṇḍitas. You know that? Smārta, and one pot, and this and that and āsana (laughing). And "I had some..., consult with some smārta paṇḍita," and the real business, to rise early in the morning, he will never do. He will never do. Brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa means he must rise early in the morning. What kind of brāhmaṇa? Oh, he is coming. (laughs) Early in the morning at half past seven. If he walks early in the morning, all his disease will be cured. That he will not do. After all, everyone can do after performing maṅgala ārati, take a morning walk. Bathing. (break) How did you know we were here?
Richard Webster: Well, I agree with you.
Prabhupāda: These boys, although they are young men, they will never go to cinema. They are young men. They have got all propensities. But they are so elevated, they have given up all these low propensities, going to the club, restaurant, and cinema or naked dance and this and that, no. Because they are first-class men, they cannot indulge in the third-class, fourth-class proclivities. We are training them in that way. That is required.
Richard Webster: Well, yes, you said restaurants.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Richard Webster: Is it that it depends on the restaurant or is that necessarily bad?
Prabhupāda: Yes, our principle is that we can eat only what is offered to God. So we cannot eat things in the restaurant because it is not offered to God. We may prepare nice things for Kṛṣṇa and offer to Him. Then we take. This is our principle. Yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ. Yajña. Yajña means worshiping the Lord. So worship the Lord, it is not difficult. Everyone is cooking for eating, every home. So cook certain things which is acceptable to Kṛṣṇa. Then offer to Him and take the prasāda. There is no difficulty. But you become purified. Yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ. Because willfully or not willingly, we are committing so many sins.
Richard Webster: Yes, I appreciate that very much. I only say is it not possible for things to be dedicated to God without actually being placed on the altar in that way? I mean what people may be doing that in different ways maybe...
Prabhupāda: No, thing is, if you want to offer to God, then—God is all-pure—the things you offer, that must be pure. And you must follow the instruction of God. Suppose if you want to give me something eatable, as a matter of etiquette, you ask me, "What can I offer you?" And if I say that "You offer me this thing, and that is very nice," you cannot offer me according to your whims. That may not be acceptable by Him.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That they have got experience. Therefore daily they are founding so many parties, manufacturing so many means and plans and this and that, but they are not happy. But they are so fool, great fool, that in spite of being repeatedly baffled, still, punaḥ punaś carv..., the same thing, under different form. What is the difference between these rascal communists and capitalists? After all, they are animals. How they can make things, better arrangement? That is not possible. The only thing... This man will say, "Exploit others," and other man shall, "Give food to the others." What is there? Give food to the others or exploit—the same animal propensity. Where is the advancement? The capitalists are thinking, "Exploit others." The same thing, like animals. This dog, as soon as he saw the shadow of his own body with the food, he thought that "Let me capture that food." This is exploitation. And another will say "No, first of all give food." So they are fighting like this. So everyone's aim is that we shall remain within this material world and happy. Therefore gṛha-vratānām.
Satsvarūpa: If we can get enough to eat and sex, we will be happy.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guru-gaurāṅga: But this is surprising. Generally, they cut.
Nitāi: In Los Angeles, you were saying about the system of monogamy, how in this way most of the women are left unmarried.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is prostitution. If a man... First of all, the problem is... That they do not know, that they should produce sufficient food grains. These, all these contraceptive methods, this and that, monogamy, they are trying for checking population. Is it not?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: The basic principle is to check population. Now, if they follow the Vedic principles, automatically the population is checked. Just like brahmacārī. So if the, both the boys and girls remain brahmacārī, then where is the unwanted population? Where is the question of this contraceptive method?
Nitāi: No need.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: They come in like Keśī demon, and they go out with prasādam in their mouth.
Prabhupāda: They are escaping. We are not escaping. We want to capture everyone. (laughter) He has no clear idea what is the aim of life.
Yogeśvara: He likes to see people engaged in work that is humanitarian, that will resolve the problems of the world.
Prabhupāda: That everyone says. All rascals says like that. Humanitarian. He does not know what is humanitarian. And then killing one capitalist or communist and this and that. Sophistry. Fascist and communist. This is their humanitarian work.
Devotee: He's like one of these rascals who translates the Bhagavad-gītā in a certain way like saying the five Pāṇḍavas are the five senses, and the battlefield is the body?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee: And here we're having a fight with the body, but he doesn't accept that Kṛṣṇa is...
Prabhupāda: Their only business is to escape Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee: They're trying to interpret that Kṛṣṇa is just our own intelligence or...
Bhagavān: The point is even when they see the practical proof, they don't accept it. They're so stubborn.
Prabhupāda: You be strong. Don't be... They cannot conquer us. But you be more strong. (end)
Prabhupāda: Everywhere possible.
Madhudviṣa: And in other Russian... But these countries are all under Communist rule. It is very difficult in those countries.
Prabhupāda: Not difficult. Nothing is difficult. For the time being it is difficult but in due course of time it will be very easy. Now who knew that in Europe and America or all over the world, Hare Kṛṣṇa will go on? Bon Mahārāja left the field; others left the field. You see? Other swamis came. They talked all nonsense, yoga, this and that, nose pressing, eyes pressing—all finished. Now Hare Kṛṣṇa is going on. Now people, the nose-presser and eyes-presser, they are no more important. Is it not? Eh? Now our men go and challenge these rascals. And in New York they did it, huh?
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And they are afraid of our troops. (laughter) They are afraid.
Madhudviṣa: One of those nose-pressers, he once was speaking, and he said, "These Hare Kṛṣṇa people, they like me very much. They always come to my lectures and they sell all the books, all their books, and then they go away before I start to talk."
Prabhupāda: "You go on pressing your nose. We make our business and go away." (laughter)
Madhudviṣa: He was speaking like that because our men go into the lecture dressed in disguise, plain clothes, and we are going in the audience selling books to everyone. They all get the book, and then, when he begins to speak, then we all turn around and go out.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The whole world is envious, whole world. I am envious of you, you are envious of me. That Bhāgavata is not meant for such envious persons. Paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2), those who are no more envious. How they will have a devotee envious? He loves Kṛṣṇa and in relationship with Kṛṣṇa loves everyone. In that position, in that state, one will not try to suppress another. Otherwise, it is material life. To live at the cost of others, to suppress one, to take other's money and become rich. There is story in the Aesop's Fable that—you perhaps know it—that a dog took the flesh in his mouth and was crossing a river, and the shadow was in the water. So he thought there is another dog with the flesh, so he wanted to..., he lost this, and that was a shadow. So he has got a flesh in his mouth, but he is an animal, it was deluded that "Another dog is carrying, so I shall take." So even in the cats and dogs, this tendency is there. Even the cats and dogs, they are also. So how can you stop it? That will be not stopped. They do not know. Therefore, these theories, they are simply theories; they are not practical. They do not know what is the nature, how nature is working.
- daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī
- mama māyā duratyayā
- mām eva ye prapadyante
- māyām etāṁ taranti te
- (BG 7.14)
This material nature can be avoided only by one who is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Otherwise, it is not possible. That example is given by Rāmānanda Rāya. He is touching naked woman, washing, dressing, touching, because he is not in the material world. That is the example given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. In the material world, as soon as you think of woman, you will be (indistinct). In the spiritual world, you can touch even a naked, beautiful, young woman but you will be (indistinct). That is the difference. Hṛd-rogaḥ kāmam.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He says that the spirit is also extremely important for the following reason. He feels that the human being needs to have problems and fight for something. The example he gave was in the Scandinavian countries they've practically solved all material problems. They have so many Social Security and this and that, and there are practically no material problems, but they have the highest suicide rate in the world.
Prabhupāda: Yes, exactly. So where is the institution, university, for educating people of the spirit soul? Where is it? Therefore the whole civilization is going in the wrong way.
Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He feels there are some people, for example who are teaching the right thing. There are missionaries who go to the Amazon jungles and also to Africa to teach. And he feels they are offering...
Prabhupāda: But we find the great cities are great jungles. A great city is a great forest. (lady begins speaking) Let her come forward.
Lady (Hṛdayānanda): She has said that you have repeatedly talked about those things which are wrong with the society. So she would like to know exactly what you mean by modern society and exactly what you feel are the problems with the society...
Prabhupāda: The modern society is not taking care of the driver; they are taking care of the car. This is the defect.
Prabhupāda: When we hold our meeting in India twenty thousand, thirty thousand people come still, because by nature they are inclined. By artificial means they are being subdued. And in every step I can feel—they are not openly saying—the government is giving me trouble. They don't want this movement may go on nicely in India.
Guest (2): But rules cannot be...
Prabhupāda: No, that cannot be suppressed, that cannot be suppressed.
Guest (2): ...cannot be subdued, even if this prime minister or Mahatma Gandhi, (indistinct) of Lord Kṛṣṇa and this and that. That is foolishness (indistinct).
Balavanta: This is Dr. Fenton, Prabhupāda, he's a professor of religion at Emory University.
Prabhupāda: Oh! Very good. Hm. (aside) What is the time now?
Devotee: Its twenty of two.
Prabhupāda: Time.
Guest (1): Can we touch your feet, Swamiji?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right.
Guest (1): Can we please?
Prabhupāda: Come... You can offer your obeisances. Hm, so that is the father's duty to see the child is grown completely spiritual, so that he may not have to come again in the mother's womb. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). So...
Amogha: People just take it for granted that...
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Amogha: Due to the propaganda, people take it for granted, "Yes, there is overpopulation. Yes, there is lack of food. There is starvation, this and that."
Prabhupāda: Because they cannot manage, so they give some other cause.
Amogha: Yeah. They blame it on nature.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Amogha: But they don't know that nature's arrangement is perfect.
Paramahaṁsa: They spend billions of dollars to try to go in space, but they don't spend that money for food.
Prabhupāda: Jaya, thank you, jaya. (break)
Devotee (1): In the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says He creates the four varṇas and āśramas, so these four classes of men are everywhere. I was just wondering if it is correct to say that each man only finds his satisfaction performing a particular type of work according to his mode of nature? Is that correct?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: That's the meaning how?
Amogha: That's what they think. They think because they've read so many commentaries...
Prabhupāda: Why do they think? If I have written one book, my words are my meaning. Why you should give meaning? I shall kick on your face. What right you have got? You write another book. Why should you take my book and give your meaning? What is this?
Paramahaṁsa: These professors didn't write the books, but they read all these Swami this and that books' translations. And then they think, "Well, all these swamis say it's like this..."
Prabhupāda: No. They should be conscious that if you read one book, you must understand what the author says. Why should you bring something else to understand that book? What is this? If you want to say something else, you write your own book or bring that book. Why you should take my book? If you want to smoke ganja, why should you take my hand? You have got your hand. You smoke ganja. What is this? I take your hand and smoke ganja? (laughter)
Paramahaṁsa: But they say that "We need the help of these different commentaries to understand such deep philosophy."
Prabhupāda: Why should you? Why should you? Why should you take Bhagavad-gītā? There are different philosophers. They have got different theories. You make your theories. But why should you make your theories on the basis of Bhagavad-gītā?
Paramahaṁsa: Well, they say they want to study the Bhagavad-gītā...
Prabhupāda: Caitanyer dayār kathā kara vicāra: "Just analyze the merciful contribution of Caitanya Mahāprabhu with others." That you have already experienced, that they experimented in so many ways, but as soon as they come to Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy, saṅkīrtana, they become immediately, "Oh, this is the nicest thing." So that is vicāra, judgement. Caitanyer dayār kathā. There are many contribution of the world, many scientists, many physiologists, many... But Kavirāja Gosvāmī says, "Compare with the contribution of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Then you will be surprised." Oh! Just like they became surprised, immediately, "Oh, this is the nicest." That is stated by Kavirāja Gosvāmī, that "The merciful contribution given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu-compare with any other contribution of the world, scientist, physiologist and this and that. You will see this is the best." Caitanyer dayār kathā karaha vicāra. (break) (Prabhupāda talking with someone in Bengali about different types of dahl) (break)
Siddha-svarūpa: ...experiments that these... I know of the experiments that these men are doing. They're connected... They have gone to the Buddhists. They've gone to Buddhist monks and various people that are into voidism, and they've made these tests, and it comes out that there's no activity. So they're seeing this as being the goal. They're trying to see if the same perfection, result of perfection, is achieved by the chanting. They already have a preconceived notion of what perfection is, and if they're testing to see if...
Prabhupāda: To that standard.
Siddha-svarūpa: Yeah, if we're up to that standard of perfection of the Buddhist monks or the Zen monks or transcendental meditators or whatever. So I think it's a very bad thing to take part in that thing.
Viśakha: A woman is trapped by her body. She has no choice. By her body she must.
Prabhupāda: So she is already dependent on nature's law that man is free from becoming pregnant and the woman has to take the burden. Then where is the independence, equal right? Equal right means sometimes man may become pregnant, sometimes woman may become pregnant, but why only woman should become pregnant and the man goes away and she has to take care of the children, beg from government or this and that? Is that independence? Eh?
Satsvarūpa: For them, the independence has become contraception. "I don't have to have the child," they say.
Prabhupāda: That means you commit another sinful activity. Then you become dependent on nature. You'll be punished. The punishment goes to you. In this way... And the whole thing becomes cumbrous. So where is the benefit of equal right, independence? Phalena paricīyate. We have to see the result of every action—whether the result is beneficial. If the result is not beneficial—the action is not beneficial. There is cases of rape cases. The victims are women. Why the victim is not man? Why? In every rape case the sufferer, or the victim, is woman. And why not the man?
Jagadīśa: Male means predominator, female means predominated.
Prabhupāda: Then? Where is the independence? Why artificial independence?
Harikeśa: In this brain weight matter, the sixty-four ounce and thirty-six ounce, is that every brain, male brain, is...?
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Dharmasya hy āpavargyasya nārtho 'rthāyopakalpate. The first thing is that people become religious. Just like in your Christian religion they go to the church to get some material profit. "Oh God, give us our daily bread." This is material profit. Similarly, Hindus or Muslims, they become religious, dharma artha kāma mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90), the material activities. Those who are actually advanced... Those who are not even human beings, their philosophy is different. Those who are human beings, their dharma, religion. Then artha, economic development, and then kāma, sense gratification, and then mokṣa, liberation. These four things are taken as general activities. So Bhāgavata says your dharma... Religious principle means the ultimate goal is how to become liberated, not artha. Artha means economic development. So then question may be if you do not, if we are not economically developed then how we shall live? The Bhāgavata says that you can make economic development as far as it maintains your body and soul together. Not that making whole life economic development and real purpose of life forget. This is foolishness. So dharma, artha. Dharma means, religious advancement means how to get out of this material condition. Not that I go to temple and chant, "God, give me millions of dollars, and this, and that." This is not possible. It is good that one has gone to God to ask some help, that much credit is there. You have found out the verse?
Prabhupāda: What is that mystic power?
Indian Man (2): I don't know what they show it, some sort of...
Prabhupāda: You do not know?
Indian Man (2): Some ji(?), they make it like that and this and that. They make the fool people. How can we convince that something, that knowledge is there. But they want immediate to know it to believe it.
Prabhupāda: That is their rascaldom. One wants to be learned without going to the school. Is it possible? So they are rascals. What can be done? They don't want to go to school and take the training, and they want to pass M.A. examination. This is their proposal. So these rascals should be kicked out. That's all.
(break) ...is: tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena (BG 4.34). First of all you surrender; then you ask question. The rascals first of all will question. And when he is satisfied, they will surrender. This is not the process. The process is first of all surrender; then question. Otherwise you have no right to question, waste time. (break) ...is the sinful part of water. This is sinful part. There is sinful water and pious water also. So this water is sinful. Drinking of this water is prohibited.
Harikeśa: In America they use maple syrup a lot, maple syrup. Is that also part of the sinful reaction for the trees? Yes.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...eḥ?
Viśvakarma: No, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Lalitā: You born... When Guru Maharaj born... (Bengali)
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: 1896.
Lalitā: Somebody has reported that he is American and this and that.
Prabhupāda: No. (Bengali) ...Calcutta janma... (Bengali)
Lalitā: I told you that Mr. Mani is Sai Baba's bhakta. So he is harassing, sending a letter and all. It's not especial any, that "Send to the member of ISKCON. They must leave." No. There is no report like that, but they are sending to say that he should learn and come to the Mr. Mani's bhakta of Sai Baba. (Bengali) There is nothing special. So if you are feeling better, then tomorrow or the day after tomorrow... (Bengali) ...can I mention that you must fit to see?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (Bengali) You know that? (Bengali) Between twelve to end of the day. (Bengali) Indira Gandhi... (Bengali) ...position plus spiritual knowledge, it will play wonderful in the world. (Bengali) Third-class, fourth-class rogue, they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Rājarṣayo. He must be royalty, at the same time great sage, saintly person. Then he will understand. (Bengali)
Lalitā: You must have that quality to understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (Bengali) Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Find out this verse.
Prabhupāda: What is the guarantee that you will live thirty-one years? What is the guarantee that you will live thirty-one years? There is no guarantee.
Cyavana: But everyone else around me appears to be having fun and enjoying.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They can use this argument though, Prabhupāda. I've heard it before, that "So God has placed us in this world. Okay, there is God, and He has placed us in this world, and He has created the world also, and He has made these things very, very enjoyable, sex life, and this and that. So why not enjoy if God has created it?"
Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. That is foolishness. It is not enjoyable. That is... If a criminal says, "The prisonhouse is very enjoyable," it is like that.
Cyavana: But all the travel brochures and the advertisements, they say it's nice here. All the advertising and travel brochures, they say it is nice.
Prabhupāda: Let him say, but prisonhouse, is it nice? That is foolishness.
Cyavana: But everyone else says it's nice.
Prabhupāda: Everyone? I don't say.
Cyavana: You are the only one who says it is not nice.
Prabhupāda: I am the only intelligent person. (laughter) That's a fact. Mūḍho nābhijānāti.
Prabhupāda: They are called Boris. (pronounces "Boreez") Boris Muslim.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Boris Muslim.
Prabhupāda: They were formerly Hindus. All Muslims were Hindus formerly.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They have an Islamic propagation center here, and I went there. I was walking by one day. They invited me in. So they began to blaspheme this and that. So I asked them, "What is your conception of God?" He said, "God is beyond conception." So I told him that "Therefore you cannot say that Kṛṣṇa is God and you cannot say that Kṛṣṇa is not God, because you don't know what God is."
Prabhupāda: Then what did he say?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He couldn't reply.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you have no conception of God, how can you deny or accept? Remain fool, that's all. That is the difficulty. When you ask them, whole world, "What is the conception of God?" they'll not be able to answer. Still, they will say there is no God. This is the foolishness going on all over the world. Actually they are not concerned with God. They accept the idea of God or so-called God for their material facilities. "O God, give us our daily bread. That's all. If You supply daily bread, then I accept You. Otherwise I reject You." This is their... When there is a war, Churchill will ask them to go, victory, "V": "Go and pray to God." God is order-supplier. And when they declare war, they do not consult God. When there is reverse condition they go to it. This is going on, that God means order-supplier. "Whatever I desire, if You are God then You supply me. Otherwise I reject You." What they will understand, intimate relationship with God, to serve Him as father, as mother, as friend? What they will understand, these rascals? It is not possible. They have no idea of God. Therefore they cannot understand. God is asking, sarva-dharmān parityajya. (BG 18.66) "What is this?" They cannot understand. Therefore they misinterpret. What is this?
Prabhupāda: After all, they are going to die. In Bengal it is said the topmost ill-naming, what is that? Ill-naming?
Harikeśa: Defamy?
Prabhupāda: Defamy. Gali. Just like I say, "You rascal fool, you...," so many things. I rebuke. What is that?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Defamy.
Prabhupāda: Defamy. So the last defamy is that you die. I say, "You are rascal. You are fool. You are this, and that." This is all not so dangerous. But if I say that "You die," that is the last defamy. So in spite of all their clever invention, they are going to die. Then what is the value? That you cannot check. "I have done wonderful things"—that's all right, invention, so many things. That's all right. "But what about my death?" Have you done anything that you can save yourself? You, Mr. Darwin, you have so experience. Millions of millions of years you have got. Why don't you stop your death? You cannot live more than a hundred years, and you are talking of millions of years. What is this nonsense? You stop your death, live for millions of years and see things. So where is that power? Then what is your value? You live for fifty years, sixty years, or utmost, hundred years, and you talk of millions of years?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Actually our theory, even taken as a theory, that the soul is there and enters the body, and when the soul leaves, the body is finished, it's very palatable, very palatable. Very few people argue with it. It's simply that they've been miseducated. Therefore they are cheated. They accept.
Prabhupāda: Busy intelligent means at least whatever he is doing, there is some meaning, busy intelligent. And lazy intelligent means he is doing higher things. Lazy intelligent means brāhmaṇa, and busy intelligent means kṣatriya. So the cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭām (BG 4.13). The society should be divided into four classes. The śūdras, they are busy fools. Therefore they are to be guided. They are to be guided. If there are, hundred workers are there, then one leader must be there to give the direction: "Why you are doing this? Why you don't do this?" Otherwise he'll create havoc. Busy fool. So the whole world is full of busy fools. That's all. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find that for brāhmaṇa, śamo damaḥ satyaṁ śaucaṁ titikṣa ārjavam, jñānam vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma sva... (BG 18.42). There is no recommendation that "You work hard day and night." The brahminical qualification is controlling the senses, controlling the mind, truthful, clean, knows everything nicely, practical application of the knowledge, full faith in śāstra and Bhagavān. Jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam. These things are recommended, not that a brāhmaṇa should become very busy whole day and night for getting food. So śāstra says, "There is no use of becoming busy for your food. Food is there already." Food is already there. He'll get his food. That is arrangement by God. But they are busy fool. They do not understand the God's arrangement. Only for food they are busy whole day and night like cats and dogs. Now this land is there. You can... Everyone can grow food if he works for two months. Everyone can grow his whole year's foodstuff. There is so much land. But no, they'll not grow food. They will grow hammer, manufacturing it. You see? Tire tube, then atom bomb, then this and that. They are busy. They are busy fool. Actually they are fools, and they are very busy. Everyone is busy. There are so many parts in the motorcar, three thousand part, and they are busy in manufacturing three thousand parts of motor parts. So everyone is busy in producing things unwanted. But they have created a society in such a way that they have to do that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. These people can be brought under control by bribing. There is no problem. They have no moral strength, and poor. They will accept bribe. I think by bribing it is still going on. Otherwise how they can stop this bribing? That is not possible.
Cyavana: No. This is their major problem, the immigration authorities. Once the people come here and start to make their exploitation, they cannot get them out. So they make all kinds of artificial regulations. You have to have so much money. You have to have this, and that, your ticket, so many things, to try to stop people from coming here, because once they're here, they just pay their way, and then they get anything they want.
Prabhupāda: The simple method that everything belongs to God... The king is the representative of God, and he distributes the land amongst the kṣatriyas. Just like knighthood or in Mussulman times, subedat(?), and in Hindu times, the subordinate king. Just like Pāṇḍavas, they were the emperors, and under them there were many hundreds and thousands of kings, states. And everything belongs to God. So why fighting? Take it. It is God's property. We are all sons of God. But there is no culture, Aryan culture. They do not know how to live peacefully and cultivate spiritual culture. They do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśāya ye bahir-artha... (SB 7.5.31). And durāśāya, bad hopes or hopes against hope, they're trying to be happy, bahir-artha, by the external energy, material, most fallen ideas, all foolish theories without any knowledge. Material, that's all. Bahir artha, external energy. Otherwise there is no cause of anxiety or distress. There is enough land. They can produce enough food and live peacefully. They are talking of peace, but they do not know how peace can be achieved. They are hankering after peace, but they do not know how to achieve peace. And that formula is given in the Bhagavad-gītā: Accept God as the proprietor; then there will be peace. Something stolen from the proprietor by some thieves, and when they sit down to take their shares, there will be fight. The property is stolen, and they are sharing. Now, one will say, "Oh, I have worked so hard. You are giving me so little share?" And others will say, "No, no, we have worked equally." Somebody, "No..." In this way there will be fight.
Indian woman: (indistinct) ...a few days before I been here for the (indistinct) my family complained me, "Mom, you don't know. Yesterday was very big day. Oh, you forget." (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa's wedding ceremony (indistinct) myself I forget everything. They start to complain go there (indistinct) I have not anything. They start to talk with me business, this and that. (indistinct) immediately I will give. Answer immediately because I always... Sometimes guest there are I start to preach (indistinct) say something. It's okay. Then you like talking your matter. Then I will talk (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: (aside:) Don't spoil your nail.
Indian woman: Automatic change.
Brahmānanda: When someone takes so spontaneously, like this African, without any preaching, but just spontaneously take...
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are not yet so advanced.
Brahmānanda: But it means in past life there must have been some connection if he immediately takes it so wholeheartedly, without any previous connection.
Indian man (4): The Indian people, when they see the Africans in the temple, singing and all that, they criticize, you know. They criticize us. They say, "Oh, you..." That boy, he told me. He read your Nectar of Devotion. Then he came to the conclusion... He read the story also of Mahārāja Ambarisa. So he used to go to the Hindu temple to clean the floor early in the morning before going to university. He told me that he went for one week and they never said anything. When he was going daily the temple, they told him, "Don't come here. Don't clean here. We don't want the African to come." So then he told me that "What should I do? I want to follow the Prabhupāda instruction. So what should I do? Prabhupāda said in his books that if one cannot do anything, simply he should go to the temple and clean the room." He was so serious. Then I told the pūjārī that "Why you are doing like that? He wants to serve the Lord. Why don't you let him serve? You want to keep out the inside the temple and throw the pots and the cigarette in the temple?" (?) So they criticize like that sometimes. They're simply imitating us.
Prabhupāda: We are talking of this verse, that if this is the composition of the body, these things are available anywhere. Why don't you create life? Therefore he is no better than the dogs. He has no intelligence that "How this combination of blood, urine, stool, and bone, and muscle can create life?" They are thinking that a combination of matter can bring life force. That is the so-called scientists' theory. So these things are available in large quantity, so why don't you create life? Therefore go-kharaḥ. Their intelligence is not better than the cows and the asses from the very beginning. If they are not cows and asses, how they can think of that combination of these material things can bring in life? When a man dies, find out if there is scarcity of stool or scarcity of urine or scarcity of blood. Bring it and inject it. These rascals, they cannot do it, and still they are calculating urine examination, blood examination and this examination. (laughter) No, I am not saying. It is śāstra. (laughter) Take this dead man's body, and whatever urine and stool is there, examine, and then inject, and come him, let him back, come to life. Then I will understand that your examination of the stool, urine is perfect. This is common question. So long the soul was there, you are very expert to examine stool, urine and this and that. But when the soul is gone... Now the stool is there; urine is there. Why don't you examine and give life? This is our challenge.
Dr. Patel: They say that the life, the consciousness... According to our religion, consciousness, the whole thing is conscious
Prabhupāda: Consciousness means soul, soul.
Bhāgavata: Well, first one of their C.I.D. will have to live like we live, and then we can see.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Actually Indians are not interested. That is the fact. They: "What is this Hare Kṛṣṇa? We have chanted the Hare Kṛṣṇa for hundreds of years. What is the effect?" That is the...
Indian man (5): This is the main problem. (break)
Dr. Patel: That they are doing, this and that. I have to explain them that "You are all humbug because they don't know you well; you don't know them well."
Prabhupāda: They will create nuisance because there is no sense. It is better nuisance. Who is coming to make sense, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa? Nobody is coming. Then nuisance is better than no sense. (Bengali:) Naya mameche khana mama baba:(?) "To possess no mama, it is better to have a blind mama." So they are blind mama. That's all right. Where is the real mama? All mamas are...
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) (break)
Prabhupāda: Mama means mother's brother.
Dr. Patel: No, but here in Gujarat... (Gujarati) Mama means he is a fool. (break)
Devotee (2): Now is not nice. The fruit is not nice.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi)
Devotee (2): You speak in Italian.
Prabhupāda: Why don't you accept it? What is the use of quoting?
Yaśomatīnandana: Yes. That they will not do because they know they can make money by quoting Bhagavad-gītā. People will not accept anybody if they openly say that they don't believe in Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: That was going on. It is the first time. We are pressing: "You must take it seriously." It is the first time. Otherwise this was going on, at least for the last two hundred years.
Yaśomatīnandana: And then when we say that a devotee goes to Vaikuṇṭha, this and that, "Oh, Vaikuṇṭha and all those things are just myth, just baloney."
Prabhupāda: You are authority, you rascal. You are authority. Everything is myth, you are simply truth. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Harikeśa: Reality and...
Prabhupāda: Where everything is myth, then why you are truth? You are also myth. Everything is myth, so you are also myth. What is the use of talking nonsense?
Yaśomatīnandana: They believe in whatever is existing now. Whatever is existing now, or whatever they...
Prabhupāda: And what is not existing which is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gita. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). Still people say, "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya," "I am this," "I am that." It is existing.
Yaśomatīnandana: They would even believe the mundane historians more than the śāstras. The historians have very funny stories. The Aryans came from the northeast Asia or something.
Yaśomatī-nandana: (break) ...is talking about Western philosopher. What about the modern Indian philosophers?
Prabhupāda: They are followers of the Western philosophers.
Brahmānanda: Same.
Yaśomatī-nandana: So why was it saying in the Western world this and that?
Indian: (break) ...to Śaṅkarācārya. Most of the Śaivites are Vaiṣṇavites only. There is no differentiation between a Śaivite and a Vaiṣṇavite. We use that (indistinct) only. Even that (indistinct) you can see. But actually Śaivism has gone underground. Viṣṇu temples are more prominent and more people are getting results immediately. He is (indistinct) mundane people. He is helping them by solving...
Prabhupāda:
- akāmaḥ sarva-kāmo vā
- mokṣa kāma udāra dhīḥ
- tivreṇa bhakti-yogena
- yajeta puruṣaṁ param
- (SB 2.3.10)
If anyone is aspirant of some material benefit and worships Kṛṣṇa, he gets it. And gradually, he gets Kṛṣṇa. Then when he gets Kṛṣṇa, he forgets all material profit.
Girirāja: Like Dhruva Mahārāja.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Svamin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yace (CC Madhya 22.42). No more birth.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is...
Dr. Patel: Just as you know that hydrogen and oxygen when brought together forms water. But then you make it and see it...
Prabhupāda: (break) ...tato bhāvaḥ sādhakānām ayam premnaḥ prādurbhāve bhavet kramaḥ. (break) Vaiṣṇava doesn't make any discrimination that "He is Hindu," "He is Muslim," "He is this and that." He takes everyone as servant of Kṛṣṇa. (break) In India the caste brāhmaṇas criticize me that "Swami Bhaktivedanta is putting Hindu dharma ruin." Yes.
Dr. Patel: Bhagavad-gītā never.... I think cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Not by birth vibhāgaśaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Never.
Dr. Patel: It is by guṇa and karma.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Not by position of birth.
Prabhupāda: No, it is clearly explained by Nārada Muni, that one has to be judged by the qualification. If the qualification.... Yady anyatrāpi diśetaḥ. If the qualification is somewhere else, then he must be designated by that qualification. Just like.... doctor's.... (Hindi) (break) ...qualification of medical man and you are practicing, that's all. Who is concerned with your caste?
Prabhupāda: You gave him some book, this Surendra?
Jayapatākā: That was a long time ago I gave one book. Since then you wrote that don't give any books, but that was a long time ago I gave.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. So you have talked and dealt with him?
Jayapatākā: He came to me and said he wanted a job here. He said he wanted to be our manager, this and that. And then he was hinting about that they were getting one wage, allowance, so he was expecting to get some allowance also, a little more.
Prabhupāda: So he is coming now. What is the purpose?
Jayapatākā: He wanted to be our..., to work for us. To work for Your Divine Grace, maybe.
Prabhupāda: How did you find him by dealing with him?
Jayapatākā: I didn't find him. He found me.
Prabhupāda: No, no, how you have...? How do you...?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guru-kṛpā: "They can't explain it."
Prabhupāda: You also cannot explain. What is explaining? All nonsense.
Guru-kṛpā: "Well, I can explain."
Prabhupāda: "Perhaps." "Might be." "It was like this and that..." What is that explanation?
Guru-kṛpā: Well, the common man doesn't challenge that.
Prabhupāda: Mean common men are fool. But why we should accept?
Bhagavān: If they could really explain it, so many things would not be going wrong.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Bhagavān: If they could actually explain it, so many things would not be going wrong. The thing is, their explanation causes more problems.
Satsvarūpa: But they say that..., When we say that everything is done by Kṛṣṇa, they say that's also "perhaps, maybe." They don't see...
Prabhupāda: No, we have got evidence. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). We have got evidence.
Satsvarūpa: As we don't accept theirs, they don't accept ours.
Prabhupāda: Yes
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: After your meeting this morning with Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, he brought up this point that maybe it would be necessary to edit the books, because...
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It might be necessary to edit the books because in these countries when they start reading about God and how we say this government is rascal, rascal, this and that, that...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Do you think it is necessary?
Prabhupāda: It will be necessary when there will be criticism.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Later on, but at the present moment they have shown interest in our books, so we'll give it the way it is.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That we can correct. There is no.... (break) ...is very good boy.
Madhudviṣa(?): Jaya.
Prabhupāda: I met you in Mexico? No.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: No, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Bombay last.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Two years ago in India I was here.
Reporter (2): If you would elaborate on that, I would be very much interested.
Prabhupāda: Well, that is.... It is.... It is known to everyone. Kṛṣṇa says, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Anna. Anna means food grains, eatables. You must produce sufficient food grains. Why you are producing tire tube instead of food grains? And just entering your Delhi from Vṛndāvana, a big Goodyear factory, very big factory. You are producing tire tube, then iron, Goodyear and this and that. Where is food grain? And both sides, the field is vacant. Nobody is going to grow food grain. Then why you'll not starve? It is your fault. You are producing tire tube and iron instrument. You are neglecting agriculture. Then why you shall not suffer for want of food grain? And you are pleading, "Indians are starving." Well, why shall not starve if they do not follow Bhagavad-gītā? They are thinking, "By increasing industry in America..." They have got industry, at the same time food grains also. But you are taking to industry without taking care of growing food grains.
Reporter (8): Swamiji, I would like to know, that I feel that your society, the Hare Kṛṣṇa consciousness society, has a very, very stable economy and that it is self-sufficient in itself. Is that so?
Hṛdayānanda: Speak a little louder.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is the Hare Kṛṣṇa society self-sufficient, does it have a.... He understands that our society has a very stable economy. Is it self-sufficient, our own Hare Kṛṣṇa society?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Purchasing flower means they are being cheated. That's all. All third-grade flowers are supplied.
Dr. Patel: But this and that plot, these two plots are actually meant by you for growing flowers. I don't know what they're doing. They are growing ornamental plants but not flowering plants.
Guru dāsa: So that piece of land is not exactly on the parikrama but off the parikrama. It's not so far from our property. You know the big park near Singhania's place?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guru dāsa: Then one more park.
Prabhupāda: Park? Singhania's building is there. I have seen. Park, I don't know.
Guru dāsa: It's an open spot, not exactly park. It's near Fogel Ashram.
Prabhupāda: Hm. So how did you like?
Guru dāsa: Well, the piece of land is nice.
Prabhupāda: Nice.
Prabhupāda: For our personal comfort, we, our students are lying on the floor. They are not using the money for purchasing nice furniture. No personal comfort. But if you say that "You are purchasing big, big car," yes, for going quickly to serve Kṛṣṇa. Our service is main point. If I can go and serve Kṛṣṇa within a minute, why shall I wait for one hour? So we take all advantages. After all, it belongs to Kṛṣṇa. They say that "We have manufactured." That's all.... But we say that Kṛṣṇa has manufactured. So they.... This philosophy, it is little difficult to understand by the dull men, that nothing is without Kṛṣṇa. Everything.... Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Sarvam, when we say sarvam, how we can exclude this and that? Everything is in relationship with Kṛṣṇa, sarvam. Sarvam means everything. So how can you discriminate, "This is material; this is spiritual"? The discrimination is that when it is not used for Kṛṣṇa, that is material, and when it is used for Kṛṣṇa, that is spiritual. That is the explanation of sarvam. Just like a thief has stolen my money. The money will be utilized. He'll spend it. I am spending, and he is.... Then why he's criminal. If you plea.... If you present this plea that "Money's for spending, so either you spend or I spend...," but that is not the idea, that the money.... My money means the money should be spent for my purpose, and because you have taken the money and spending for your purpose, therefore you are criminal. That is the distinction between material and spiritual. Money, or everything, belongs to Kṛṣṇa. When it is utilized for Kṛṣṇa, this is spiritual, and when it is not utilized for Kṛṣṇa, that is material. Where is the difficulty to understand? You cannot say that "Yes, I have taken your money, so you are also spending. I am also spending. So why do you call me a criminal?" The answer will be: "Yes, you are not spending for me. You are spending for you. Therefore you are criminal." Is it very difficult to understand?
Rāmeśvara: You are very merciful, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Richard: You are very patient, I'll tell you. (laughs)
Rāmeśvara: Thank you, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Richard: Thank you.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...even they don't associate temple this and that.
Hari-śauri: That boy has some intelligence, it's just a, (laughs) he has to be guided a little bit.
Prabhupāda: Guidance required. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). (end)
Hari-śauri: That's just the hills in the background.
Prabhupāda: I think this farm organization will not be liked by the government.
Hari-śauri: Because of the self-sufficiency? Once they know that we can live independently, they won't like it.
Mādhavānanda: They don't like it already. They are attacking in New Vrindaban, publicity saying that this is just a hippie farm and this and that. They don't like.... It is the state. They see that we are living independently of the entire society. They don't like that. They want everyone to be following their way of society.
Prabhupāda: Why not our way of? If you want to enforce your way of life, why not I enforce my way of life? Then where is my independence? You cannot enforce your way of life. This is standard life.
Devotee: The neighbors around the farm, they like us.
Hari-śauri: Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja was saying that we're very popular with the neighbors there.
Prabhupāda: That is good sign.
Devotee: One farmer called his tractor the Hare Rāma tractor.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) They are getting daily fresh vegetable, fresh milk. It is very palatable.
Mādhavānanda: We wanted to have a cow here, but they won't allow one within the city limits.
Prabhupāda: Then? Why don't you do it?
Kulādri: You saw the Rādhā-kuṇḍa in the movie, in the film.
Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, when one returns to his svarūpa, his natural form, how does...
Prabhupāda: First of all, anartha-nivṛtti. You are accustomed to so many bad habits. First of all try to rectify it, then talk of svarūpa. Where is your svarūpa? Simply wasting time. A man is diseased, he's thinking, "When I shall be cured I shall eat, go to this hotel, I shall eat like this." First of all cure, then talk of eating this and that. Svarūpa, when you are cured, that is svarūpa. So long you are not cured, what is the use of talking svarūpa? First business is cure yourself. Anartha-nivṛtti, that is anartha-nivṛtti. Then svarūpa will come. That is the bābājīs. In Vṛndāvana, you have seen? Siddha-praṇālī.
Pradyumna: Ah, siddha-praṇālī, siddha-deha?
Prabhupāda: They are smoking and having illicit sex with one dozen women-svarūpa. Rascal. This is called sahajiyā, a rascal. Condemned. Where is your svarūpa? Don't talk unnecessarily. First of all come to svarūpa, then talk of svarūpa.
Devotee: So our motivation should be to get free from birth, disease, old age and death.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He became like a hermit. He withdrew into himself. No one knew very much about him; he was very mysterious so far as his life with the public was concerned. But towards the end of his life he didn't live a very elaborate life of sense gratification at all. No one knew much about him at all.
Hari-śauri: This description is perfect, actually, because most of his fortunes they calculate he amassed by many illegal methods, like paying off police and fixing so many things up. With his money, he was always able to buy government officials and like this and get so many contracts to further the development of his aircraft companies and this and that.
Prabhupāda: He has manufactured airplanes?
Hari-śauri: Yes, he had something to do with airplanes. And also he had a lot of land in Las Vegas, this gambling city. So many... He was involved in many mysterious maneuvers. It's open in the newspapers, they said that he got most of his money from illegal methods.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: In his old age he was very afraid of germs. He didn't want to catch any disease. So he would wear..., he would live in perfectly sealed rooms with all artificial air and light, so no germs could exist, and he would wear these...
Prabhupāda: He did not know that he's creating germs within his body.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: He could not avoid death.
Prabhupāda: If there was no germs, how he died? So at last he said?
Prabhupāda: Do they add mango?
Hari-śauri: Yes, sometimes they put different fruits in it.
Pradyumna: Little oranges in there. You can put orange?
Hari-śauri: Strawberry and mango and this and that. They make it with some kind of ice cream machine.
Prabhupāda: Hmm? This is not from machine?
Hari-śauri: No, this is from machine.
Pradyumna: You first made ice cream in New York, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Someone told me that in 26 Second Avenue, did you make..., you made them ice cream when it was very hot?
Prabhupāda: Hot?
Pradyumna: It was hot, no, the weather was hot, so you made.
Prabhupāda: No, you can make ice cream in this, what is called, refrigerator. You can make.
Hari-śauri: Just make thick cream and put it in the fridge.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Ice" cream.
Prabhupāda: (Prabhupāda speaks some gibberish). Big, big words.
Hari-śauri: Yes, "I am the fire of digestion."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So that differentiates also the simple matter without life. For example, sometimes it has been asked whether a crystal is alive or not. This is confusing to the scientists. Sometimes they say that a crystal is behaving just like a living body, it grows and this and that, they say. But actually there is no flow of matter. That tells us that crystal is not life. There's a fundamental difference. The last point in this connection is that matter is impersonal and life has personality.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So that implies that matter is unconscious and the life is fully conscious.
Vṛṣākapi: It's been said sometimes, Prabhupāda, that you have said that some rocks have life. Some rocks, some stones, are actually souls in them?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like in the tree there is spirit soul. Everywhere there is spirit soul, but development of consciousness makes difference. The difference between the tree and man is that man is developed consciousness. Consciousness is developed. Tree is not developed. That is difference, but life is there both in the tree and in man.
Rūpānuga: What about the crystal? The crystal grows, but we don't say that the crystal has life in the usual sense of the term. Is the crystal also...
Prabhupāda: That any rascal will do. Bambharambhe laghu kriya. Aparkulasvenavargolajagundakuligondoliojalīlāvale... (gibberish) (laughter) You can talk like that—what is the meaning? That intelligence they have got, to manufacture... I know, I was in the medical business. So any petty medicine, and you inquire medical man, and he'll present it in such a scientific way that people will think that it is very important thing. I know it well. In Bose's laboratory we used to do that. Aparkulavenavargolajdgunda... This is... (gibberish) Simply soda bicarb and little this and that. So the modern world means how to befool persons, that's all. Not to enlighten, but to keep them in ignorance and befool them more and more, and they like it. Under the influence of māyā they like to be cheated. (sounds of fire engines) Now just see the whole night there is blazing fire, and they are thinking they are happy. And if we sing saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka **, "the material world is blazing fire," that is sentiment. And this is not practical. Whole day and night, simply fire, disturbing. Such a big important city, and they are disturbing always twenty four hours, gongongongongongongon. They are so expert that this ordinary fire they can control. Another side is that nobody wants this fire, and why it is coming? Yathā duḥkha... Prahlāda Mahārāja, long, long years ago: yathā duḥkham ayatnataḥ. As this fire business is coming without my endeavor, similarly, the other part, distress, this is distress, other part, happiness, also will come. Why shall I endeavor for it? So my energies should be utilized only for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is civilization. And whole life, day and night, they are trying for material happiness, and that is not happening. The problems are increasing. No intelligence, mūḍha. Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. They admit, the scientists, they admit that they are in ignorance. Simply bluff. Again one bluff, that Mars-going expedition. The business is going on in the Arizona, that's all. And after few years they will present some stone, "Now we went to Mars. There is no possibility of living there. Take this stone and sand and be satisfied for your millions of dollars that you have spent..." And they will say "Oh, we have made scientific progress. I have got this stone." Yo ko thako bhayargolihiya us ka tek lilaya(?). There is a song in Bengal that formerly anything European, sāheb, that is good. So one person is selling meat, flesh of dog.
Prabhupāda: He's active only on Kṛṣṇa's business. That's all. He has no other business.
Mr. Sharma: So he does no other work. He does only what Kṛṣṇa has said.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mr. Sharma: Preaching and this and that.
Prabhupāda: Yes, just like we are doing. Kṛṣṇa said, "Surrender unto Me." And what we are preaching? We are preaching, "Sir, you surrender to Kṛṣṇa." So what is the difficulty? Is there any difficulty? Kṛṣṇa said "Surrender unto Me." And if I go to you "Mr. Sharma, you surrender to Kṛṣṇa." So what is my difficulty?
Mr. Sharma: Suppose I want to surrender to God, to Kṛṣṇa. How I will do it?
Prabhupāda: No, no, first of all my position, because I am working on behalf of Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa says, "You surrender unto Me." So if I say that "Sir, you surrender to Kṛṣṇa," so where is my difficulty?
Mr. Sharma: You see, yes, I say I surrender to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: You surrender, not surrender, that is you business. But my business is that I am requesting you that you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. So where is my difficulty? You surrender, not, that is your business. But my business is to canvass, "Sir, you surrender to Kṛṣṇa." So I am representing. And Kṛṣṇa says, na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69). I have to be recognized by Kṛṣṇa. That is my business. So if I do agree, then I become recognized by Kṛṣṇa. You do or not do, that is your business. My only business is to request you.
Prabhupāda: And if your electricity fails, you'll go to hell. (laughter) This is no argument. That is obstinate rascal's argument. That one, they were eating yogurt. Everyone said, "Oh, very first-class, nice yogurt." Everyone was saying. So there was the obstinate rascal, he has to find out some fault. He said, "Yes, it is very nice, but if we keep it three days it will be bad." He's not thinking of the present, but he has to criticize it, that if you keep it three days it will become bad. That is all right, but what you are tasting now, talking of that. When there will be rain, you'll have to go in the room—this is no argument. This is obstinate rascaldom. We're talking of this. If accident and this and that, then in everywhere that will... That I've already replied, if there is electricity failure, then it is...
Hari-śauri: But we have to plan for the future.
Prabhupāda: Future you cannot plan. That is the foolishness. That is another obstinate rascaldom. Future is not in your hand. You cannot plan. That is going on. They are planning so many things for future, but it is being baffled. So many schemes, so many there are. Our, in India there is a planning commission, after independence. So whatever they did, all failure. All failure. And now it is chaos. That Guljanajana(?) Nanda you know? He was one of the prominent member of the planning commission. He was very important member in the central government, home member, planning commission, president and so on, so on. Nowadays he is loitering on the street, coming me to talk as ordinary man. You have seen? You were giving me massage on the roof and he was sitting?
Hari-śauri: Yes. He's just trying to make some name and fame now by becoming a pious man.
Prabhupāda: Still, six lakhs or six hundred. No, I say this is unique in the history. Now we have got... we are going to print, next our printing program... Bring it from Harikeśa. I am being surprised. Fifty thousand, one lakh, five hundred thousand each item.
Kartikeya Mahadevia: Each item. In Ahmedabad there is a very religious person who was not becoming life member at all. Without seeing the balance sheet and this and that. And I told him, "What do you mean by balance sheet? Only money matters? If ten thousand foreigners are being converted and they are following this religion and this culture, everything, is it not part of the balance sheet? Only rupees and paisas you want to see, then that's a different matter. Here the people are chanting every day sixteen rounds, they have left so many bad vices, they are propagating all over the world." Then he immediately signed up. He has gone to... He might have met you in New York. Chandrakanti Ravaiwala. He was to come on 8th July in New York. He has gone to America to see his son there.
Prabhupāda: In America, in New York, they have got a very...
Kartikeya Mahadevia: Very good temple. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami wrote to me, my friend was also there. Mr. Patetas has met you I think.
Prabhupāda: It is twelve...
Kartikeya Mahadevia: Twelve stories.
Prabhupāda: In the middle of downtown.
Krishna Modi: I'll ask them. I have an idea about that only. Because yesterday Mr. Brahmānanda already told me that "Why not you people also stand up and say something about that." Why not you strengthen my hands. Because they press and press and they want something that I should say something. So if you people stand and then you say that "No no no no, this is not the thing and we have seen it and this and this and that and that." And they will be... That is his idea.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But the only people who are pressing charges are the Communists.
Krishna Modi: But they will do. That is their duty.
Prabhupāda: They are atheists.
Krishna Modi: Yes. So that why we should mind for that? That is there. You may say they're rākṣasa, or whatever you... (laughs) They will, always they will...
Prabhupāda: Rākṣasas are always ready to kill God. That was the business of Rāvaṇa, that was the business of Kaṁsa, that was the business of Hiraṇyakaśipu.
Krishna Modi: That is the same thing in Rāvaṇa and this... What is this? That is the same thing. They were happy, they were drink and all these things, and take and all that time, and also harassing the devotees and... This is their duty. This is their duty. Therefore we should not mind for that. Let them do it.
Prabhupāda: Why should we bother about this and that?
Caraṇāravindam: Prabhupāda, you wrote in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta that the Caitanya mahā-mantra, śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu nityānanda, there is no offense to that. And so therefore in the Kali-yuga it is actually more beneficial...
Prabhupāda: Offense is that what is spoken by the ācāryas, if you do not follow, that is offense. Guror avajñā. That is offense. To chant Gaura-Nitāi is no offense. But if our previous gurus have chanted śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu nityānanda śrī-advaita—why should we go beyond that? That is guror avajñā. Even there is no aparādha, because guru, Kavirāja Gosvāmī, has sung like that and my guru has sung, we should follow that. We should not make any deviation. That is guror avajñā śruti-śāstra-nindanam. Nāmno balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. So it comes to be one of the items of the daśa-vidha-aparādha. Guror avajñā.
Caraṇāravindam: Should we consider that it's more beneficial for people to hear bhaja śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya...
Prabhupāda: Why? There is already... Why should you go here and there? There is already śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu nityānanda. Why you are so anxious to go out of it?
Prabhupāda: I see that here they eat more.
Hari-śauri: They appear to eat a lot. But I don't know. The food here is not... It's not got so much nutritional value. But I've seen boys here, they have been here a year or two years and they've had dysentery constantly because they cannot control their tongues. They eat and then they get sick, they get dysentery so they say, "Oh, I need boiled this and fruit and this and that." But then again you see them on the first feast they're eating kacuri or this or that. Stuff cooked in ghee. And then immediately they become sick again, and they can't do any work all the time and at the same time they refuse to control their tongues to get better. They stay on that platform. Always sick, but not eating the correct food.
Haṁsadūta: This is one of our biggest problems. Just as you say, when someone gets sick he should fast. I tell them, "Stop eating. You'll get well immediately. If you have fever, don't eat. Take water, lemon. You'll be all right in a few days." They have not realized the function of the body, how their own body is functioning, and they insist on eating. They get sicker and sicker. They complicate things. I've seen so many people get incredibly complicated digestive diseases. Then they can't work. They get jaundice, they get dysentery, amoebic dysentery, boils, all these things come from taking too much food. And then they want to change their diet. Although they change their diet, they eat so much of the changed diet that it also has no effect.
Akṣayānanda: Actually, this is the main problem.
Prabhupāda: She is expert in typing. Amongst the women, she is expert typist. She is expert in so many things. Only defect is that she is woman. But Kṛṣṇa says, striyaḥ śūdrās tathā vaiśyaḥ: "Never mind woman. If she is devotee, she also comes to Me." Striyaḥ śūdrās tathā, "no one barred." Especially naming, striyaḥ śūdrās tathā vaiśya te 'pi yānti parām. Everyone is to be.... Kṛṣṇa is so kind. There is no restriction. Everyone is open to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Jīvera 'svarūpa' haya-nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). This is open to all living entities. There is no restriction. And so long this body is there, material, there is distinction between this and that. Otherwise, when you come to the platform of spiritual understanding, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18), then there is no restriction. Higher, lower, this, that, so many. Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ (CC Madhya 13.80). So any newspaper propaganda against us? No. One complaint is standing, that with our life members and others, subscriber, they always complain they are not getting paper, they are not getting book. That is the general complaint.
Akśayananda: They send regularly. We are sending. But many times the mail is stolen, magazines, Back to Godhead.
Prabhupāda: That is a fact.
Akśayananda: Yes, it is very difficult.
Prabhupāda: Because there are so many nice picture. I have seen. When I was printing my books in a Delhi press, so one peon was coming there to work part time as compositor. So his mailbag he will put somewhere in the press and he will being composing. And all other compositors, they'll check the mail bag and if something is attractive, they will take. I have seen it. Our magazine is so...
Prabhupāda: That means you make purposefully complicated. The father is saying, "I am father." Then why you are bringing this meaning, aham means...
Indian man: No, it's that "aham" is indicated to Who? The physical posture of Kṛṣṇa which we know or the...?
Prabhupāda: Why do we say like that? Why? (shouting) Why you are bringing physical concept He is a person, He is saying. Why do you say physical, material, and this and that way. He is father.
Indian man: Because He is saying, we should accept it?
Prabhupāda: Yes, you accept. Accept, Kṛṣṇa is in your front. And why should physical, metaphysical and chemical? Kṛṣṇa is a person. A person says...
Indian man: Earth is mother...
Prabhupāda: Yes. And He says that "Earth is mother, I am the father." You have to understand it. That yes, earth is mother, because everything is coming from earth. But who has given the seed in the mother? That Kṛṣṇa says, "I am giving." Sa asṛjata sa īkṣata. This is Vedic version. And He says personally.
Indian man: As you say earth, mind accepts immediately. But...
Prabhupāda: But if your mind cannot accept, your mind cannot accept, that does not mean the things will change. You should know that you are a fool. You do not know.
Prabhupāda: No, why these boys are attracted ? They have not come here to see your industry for materialism. They have come here for spiritual. They have not come to see your cycle and sewing machine. Actually, they have come, Vṛndāvana, Māyāpur. And they are not poverty stricken. We go to Europe being poverty stricken. That Lady Wellington, he (she) challenged one of my Godbrothers, Bhakti Tīrtha Mahārāja, that "You Indian people..." She was very proud, Lady Wellington. Wellington was Iceland. She said that "You Indian people..." Of course, it was friendly talk. "You come to our country, we give you some stamp, degree, and you earn your livelihood in India. What you have come here to teach?" This was the challenge. Actually, that was happening. We were sending our men to England to become bar-at-law, to become MS, CP, to become this and that, and they became here big men. So why you people come here to teach us? This was the challenge. In those days a little favor of Englishman was considered a great boon. In Bengal there is a word, saheb śubha. Saheb means European, especially Englishman, and śubha means "auspicious." So if anyone can make friendship with a European, then his life is successful. And that was happening. The Englishmen were opening business houses. If somebody became connected, he gets good business. He becomes a rich man. There is a family in Calcutta, Saubhaga (?) Raj family. So the head of that family, Navinchandra Dev, he was a minor clerk of Lord Clive's. So when Lord Clyde was in Delhi, he was young man, he was sitting on that peacock throne and slept. Young man. So Lord Clyde saw, "Oh, what is this young man?" So the Englishman, then he came to Calcutta. So "You are fortunate, all right I'll make you a king." Britishers they were giving title, king. So he was given the title Raja. So the whole family is Saubhaga (?) Raj family still. This was the Raj. He was a clerk. Why people will not say saheb śubha? He became favorite to Lord Clive, and his whole family became Raj family.
Prabhupāda: Why? Why should you? If you take Bhagavad-gītā, you should speak what Bhagavad-gītā is saying. And interpretation is required when the thing is not understood clearly. There you get interpretation. Unnecessarily, why should you interpret Bhagavad-gītā? You have no right. Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). So anyone can understand there is a place Kurukṣetra still. Why should you interpret, "Kurukṣetra means this body and this and that," why? What is the necessity? Do you think there is necessity?
Guest (3): But just as...
Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all let us settle, that Bhagavad-gītā begins
- dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre
- samavetā yuyutsavaḥ
- māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva
- kim akurvata sañjaya
- (BG 1.1)
So Mahābhārata is the history and there was Battle of Kurukṣetra. And that Kurukṣetra is mentioned there in the Bhagavad-gītā, and it is dharma-kṣetra since Vedic age. So the word used, dharma-kṣetre and kuru-kṣetre, it is completely understood. Why should you interpret unless you have got a motive. And why a sane man accepts that interpretation? If you have got a different philosophy you can write your own book. Why should you cheat others, taking Bhagavad-gītā and interpreting in your own way? This has spoiled the whole thing. And Kṛṣṇa says that as soon as you deviate from the disciplic succession system then it will be lost. So what is the use of reading something which is already lost? If I want to supply you something food, it must be fresh and palatable. Then you'll enjoy. But if it is rotten, decomposed, and if we supply you that foodstuff, what you will enjoy and what you will get benefit out of it?
Hari-śauri: Actually they're not interested in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: I knew all these things but what I am? I have no position.
Dr. Patel: But what you have commented is correct. And the Bhagavad-gītā, real thing is man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Instead they directed their attention to karma and this and that. It was and similar thing...
Prabhupāda: But because they did not learn subject matter from ācārya. Yes. Ācārya, one has to learn from the ācārya.
Dr. Patel: Ācārya is one who ācāra, himself practices.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No. One who knows and practices. Ācinoti śāstra. One who knows the real purpose. And there is no difficulty of understanding the real purpose. It is clearly said, everything. The process of knowledge is given, amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam (BG 13.8). Where is that? In the beginning, "Oh, I am such a big leader, politician. Whatever I say is nice." Dambha. Dambha. Because he's thinking puffed-up falsely. Some rascal fools give them clap. (Prabhupāda claps) They think, "Oh, I have become very great."
Dr. Patel: Nowadays sir, they collect people to clap them.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No. They make such a speech and practice. One political leader, he is young man, he was saying in Hyderabad... He was ambassador in... That Rao?
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Dr. Patel: You are thrown in the lower yonis.
Prabhupāda: Lower? Yes, yes. Lower... That is mṛtyu-saṁsāra. Suppose next life I become dog. Then my becoming very big scientist, big lawyer, big this and that, everything finished. But that law is not in your hand. After death, you cannot say, "Mother nature, you are giving this body. I don't like it." No. "It is not in your liking. It is my liking." Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). When you are criminal, you are under the grip of the magistrate. If he puts you in jail, you cannot say that "I don't like." No. You like or not; you must go. Who cares for your liking? Therefore mūḍha. Prakṛteḥ. Prakṛti, the laws of nature, is working in its own way. Nobody can change it. But ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. Those who are rascal, they are thinking, "I am independent. Whatever I like, I can do. There is no God. There is no law." Kartāham iti manyate. That should be avoided, that I am independent. Means that knowledge is lacking at the present moment. "Whatever I think, I can do. It is private. Religion is private." And big, big swamis are supporting. "Yes, religion is your private."
Dr. Patel: Even the state says "Religion is your private..."
Prabhupāda: Whatever... The rascal says. A rascal says. It is not private. No private-public. It is laws of nature. You have to abide by that. The nature's law is "Now winter. You have to cover your body." There is no second law. So that is wanting, that we are... The present defect is that every one of us under the laws of God or nature, whatever you say. And still, we are declaring independence. This is the defect. Prakrti-stho 'pi.
Prabhupāda: That is also another foolishness. How much water he'll carry by pipe? (aside:) Where is pole. Take water from God. That is sufficient. Navadit tarims ca.(?) When there is water supplied by God, where there is no need of water there will be water. Just like on the hills, on the mountains, there is no need of water. In the ocean there is no need of water. But the God... "All right, take water here also." That is God's gift. You rascal, how much water you have got that you transport by pipe and this and that...? All rascals. Mūḍha. They can simply address as rascals. That's all. They can simply address as rascals. That's all. That is my language, always these are all rascals. Godless means mūḍha, rascal, duṣkṛtina. They will attempt so many things, simply waste their time and energy. Duṣkṛtina. Because they are rascals. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). And a human being should have intelligence, but they are lower, lowest status of the human being. Mūḍha, duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ narādhamāḥ. "No, the university education..." Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. Everything is analytically spoken. Why all these things? Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. Because godless, no intelligence. Anyone who is godless, he has no intelligence. This is the conclusion. They are intelligent amongst the similar rascals. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ (SB 2.3.19). He's intelligentsia among the dogs, among the camels, among the hogs, and the asses. They will praise them, "Oh, you are so intelligent. You are so educated." Not human being. Just like dog receives his master, "Gow, gow, gow, gow." (makes growling sounds) So what is that reception, dog's reception? Similarly, these intelligent men are intelligent amongst a class of men who are compared with dogs, hogs, camel and ass. They are not human being. If some man praises them that "You are so big. You are so big leader," he's also amongst this group. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ. This is grave thing. Let understand it, that anyone who is godless, who has no idea what is God, he is a rascal. Immediately take him that he's a rascal. He may be prime minister, he may be president, he may be scientist, but we shall take him as rascal number one. This is our first understanding. Bokā. My Guru Mahārāja used to say, bokā. So at that time I was thinking, "Everyone is bokā?" (laughing) Guru Mahārāja says, "Everyone..." "Even Rabindranath Tagore, he is also bokā?" Later on I could under..., "Yes. Everyone is bokā."
Prabhupāda: No, no. This Dāmodara Mahārāja.
Jayapatākā: The chief minister.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayapatākā: Yes? He gave false name; he signed it false. He said that we're coming with banduka and chasing the sādhus and that we're harassing people, beating them. So many things he wrote, false. He said, "Most envious is Bhavānanda and just like him is Jayapatākā." Then he said that "Tapomaya, he is simply their lackey. He goes and harasses people," this and that. Then the police came, and they showed us the letter, and we both looked at each other and said, "This looks like something that Dāmodara Mahārāja would do." So we advised the police, "We think that he did it." So the police went over there and they said as soon as they had the letter he started shaking. They said, "Is this your letter?" He said, "No." He says, "You wrote this letter." Because they could see he was nervous. They are experienced. They said, "All right, you give your signature." And then he signed, and although he tried to change it, they said, "No. This is the same signature. Now we're going to take you to the thānā." (police station) "No, no. I am sometimes a little crazy." Āmi ekṭu pāgala. "I didn't mean this..." Then he admitted. But he sent that to the chief minister.
Prabhupāda: Just see. How envious.
Jayapatākā: Naturally, any letter to the chief minister, they...
Prabhupāda: Take action.
Jayapatākā: ...take action.
Girirāja: He was a famous singer, and his father was also... So now he has become something like a guru. And he has a temple in Poona called the Hare Krishna Temple. And the main Deity is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. Of course, he's bogus, more or less, but he... One thing is he was just praising you for hours almost, in front of all of his disciples.
Prabhupāda: How old is he? As old as I am?
Girirāja: He is seventy-five. He was saying that... He's written some sentimental books about Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's flute and this and that. But anyway, he was just saying that he couldn't imagine how you could do so much. You know, he said, unless you were empowered by God, you could not have done this. He said with great difficulty he had published one book in America, and you'd published so many books, sales, and making devotees, and establishing centers. He wasn't feeling well, but he said he would really like to come here and offer...
Prabhupāda: Bombay?
Girirāja: ...his obeisances.
Prabhupāda: Why not invite them? And immediately you should have invited him.
Girirāja: No, yes, I did.
Prabhupāda: So you can stay there. We have a good place.
Girirāja: He sent... I didn't bring them with me. He sent two of his books with a message, and he said that he wanted your blessing.
Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā is accepted, and so far I understand that when Morarji was going to be arrested, he said that "Let me finish my reading of Bhagavad-gītā." I read it in the paper.
Mr. Rajda: Yes, he was saying.
Prabhupāda: So he... He's a devotee of Bhagavad-gītā, and there are many others. So why this teaching should not be given to the whole world?
Mr. Rajda: Now, sir, daily he gets up at 3.30 a.m., does first of all his religious things, reading of Bhagavad-gītā and all this. And that goes on for two, three hours. Then, at seven, he comes out of his room after taking his bath. Then he meets particular...
Prabhupāda: And these foreign boys, they begin their, this Bhagavad-gītā practice from 3.30 to 9.30. They have no other business. You see. You have studied our, this Girirāja. The whole day he's doing. They're all on this. From morning, 3.30, till they are tired, 9.30, simply Bhagavad-gītā.
Mr. Rajda: Wonderful.
Prabhupāda: And we have got so many materials. If we discuss on this one line, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), it takes days to understand.
Mr. Rajda: Quite.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Why one? Let him come. (Hindi) I think I speak in English. Otherwise they will not understand. The first thing is that "I am not this body." This is the first instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. And if you do not understand the first instruction, then where is the use of going ahead? This is the defect. Bhagavān said,
- aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ
- prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase
- gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca
- nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ
- (BG 2.11)
"My dear Arjuna, you are lamenting for your family and bodily relationships. But this is not the subject matter for learned persons. And you are talking just like a learned man, 'What will happen if these, my brothers' wives become widows and this and that?' " That means in a gentlemanly way He said that "You are talking like a nonsense because you have no real subject matter." Agatāsūṁś ca. So far this body is concerned, either living or dead, it is a not a subject matter for learned talk. It is a lump of matter. And what is life?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he could only see as deep as the body. He could not see it was the soul...
Prabhupāda: Hm. He was rascal speculator. He took the idea from the Vedic literature, and he wanted to take the credit himself, and the different hodgepodge theory, this is... Britishers took the idea from Vedic literature and presented in British way. Britisher wanted that "We are the monopolizers of all scientists, all big men." Sir Isaac Newton, then the, who is that, Darwin, big politicians, Gladstone, everything big-British. They wanted it. "British means all big men. Therefore we must rule over the world." All Lords, Sirs, and this and that... They wanted to prove, "The only big men of the universe, they take birth in England, and therefore we should rule over the world." (laughs) And this was their pledge.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For a while they did a pretty good job.
Prabhupāda: No, artificially you can do for a while. Unless it is sound footing, it cannot stay. You can cheat some people for some time..., no, all time. You can cheat some people for all time, and all people for some time, not all people for all time. This is the... That was their business, to cheat some people for all time and cheat all people for some time. But not all people for all time. That is not possible.
Bhakti-caru: (Bengali)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was guessing but he gave the recommendation for a strong anti-tubercular medicine.
Prabhupāda: No, no, therefore I am not going to.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, these allopathic doctors have been totally a failure for you. There's no question of going back to them in any case.
Prabhupāda: He has already concluded something and he wants to prove it by x-ray and this and that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And strong medicine he prescribed.
Prabhupāda: Hm. (indistinct)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He would have created havoc with his testing.
Prabhupāda: I am not going to die, I will remain in his treatment, this kavirāja. The doctors, they create a situation and they have preconceived.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they make you, if you don't have the disease, then they'll make sure you get it, simply to be right.
Prabhupāda: So I shall remain in his treatment. Good (indistinct), that's all. Take his chart and strictly follow. I'll not object, I will follow. Is that all right?
Devotees: Yes, Prabhupāda.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whatever you tell us is all right, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Akṣayānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, this morning, in the Bhāgavata class, we read a verse how Bali Mahārāja had been awarded all material opulences by the Lord—because of his devotion, not because of his puṇya. So I gave lecture to the devotees—in the same way Your Divine Grace, because of your devotion and preaching, Kṛṣṇa has given you every facility for propagating the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and although there are other nice movements in India, actually they should all join you. They should all surrender to you. We want that everyone should actually join us at your lotus feet because you have actually been given all śakti by Lord Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-śakti vinā nahe tāra pravartana. So I told the devotees like this. "Do not be misled by others, even though they may be appearing to do nice work." Actually you are the only one who is really distributing the message of Lord Kṛṣṇa. This is very obvious by the result. These others have not made even one foreign disciple. And if they did make one, he could not give up smoking, drinking and this and that. So there is no benefit whatsoever. Any intelligent person can see. Plus you have given us so much nectar. Prahlāda Mahārāja says mahāmṛta. I always think of that verse. You have given us so much nectar to absorb our minds in. There is really no chance that we will be influenced by these dry personalities.
Prabhupāda: Now you take up seriously and distribute. (aside:) It has finished.
Upendra: Twenty-five.
Prabhupāda: Only?
| Page Title: | This and that (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | MadhuGopaldas, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 08 of May, 2013 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=81, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 81 |