Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) But these rascals, they say: "Yes, I'm religious," but he's doing most irreligious activities. You see? I asked the Christian so many times that, "Your Bible says, 'Thou shall not kill.' And why you are killing?" They cannot give any satisfactory answer. This is my experience. It is clearly said, "Thou shall not kill." And they are maintaining slaughterhouses. What is this? The other day in London, one lady, she was showing me . . . she . . .
(aside) You were present? Broke some grass blade?
Haṁsadūta: Oh, yes, I was present.
Prabhupāda: Just see. Breaking a grass blade is equal to keeping a big, organized slaughterhouse. Just see.
Ambassador: I see.
Prabhupāda: This is their intelligence. (laughs) She has complained, "It is also killing." Supposing it is killing. Actually it is not killing. Supposing it is killing. This killing and keeping organized slaughterhouse killing is the same thing. Just see. People have become so degraded.
Ambassador: This is sophistry.
Prabhupāda: They give this example that "You also kill vegetable, just this grass blade is broken. It is killed. So it is equal to maintaining a big slaughterhouse." You see? This is going on, under the name of re . . . they, they are Christian nuns. In London they come to me, talk some time. So . . . and in India also, we see now cow killing is going on, regular slaughterhouse and . . . what can I say? You are government man. (laughs) You may take some wrong views about me. What is your opinion, personal?
Ambassador: I'm afraid I'm a very democratic person. If people, if they sincerely believe that they cannot exist without meat, they should be permitted, and once that is granted . . .
Prabhupāda: No, no, no.
Ambassador: . . . you have to organize slaughterhouses.
Prabhupāda: Then, then that is the . . . our misfortune that we have lost our Indian culture.
Ambassador: Because . . .
Prabhupāda: Indian culture.
Ambassador: Your Grace, what you want is really a sort of complete . . .
Prabhupāda: No, I don't want.
Ambassador: . . . a strong, obedient, disciplined society. But the moment the disciplinarian becomes a dictator, it is . . .
Prabhupāda: It is, it is the duty of the government to see. That is the government. Strong government means . . .
Ambassador: It's the Rāma-rājya ideal, I'm not . . . (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Strong government means that, that government should be very, very vigilant that citizens are doing their duty properly. That is the first duty. They should be given all protection. At the same time . . . just like father gives protection to the children, at the same time, very strict that they are morally and disciplinary, they are going, coming out nice.