Prabhupāda: Take this, tactfully, that "All right, our ratha will not move. But this is our ceremony. The ratha will stand there."
Bali Mardana: So they should get written permission for the ratha to stand there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "Ratha will stand, will not move, unless you sanction. But it is the, one of the part of the ceremony. There must be ratha. How you can stop it?" And from the ratha the palanquin will go to the Trafalgar Square. As usual, we hold our ceremonies and come back. So what is the objection? And if they say, "No, you cannot even keep the ratha," that means there is conspiracy.
Prabhupāda: That means there is conspiracy. So we should be politicians also (break) ...somebody protested that "Your Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement makes the people dull." And now, you have not seen the Vaiṣṇava. There was two fight in the Indian history. One is Rāma and Rāvaṇa, and one is Kurukṣetra. And the hero is Vaiṣṇava. We are going to produce such Vaiṣṇavas, not these dull rascals, sitting down. We don't want these Vaiṣṇavas, sitting down rascals. We want Arjuna or we want no one. That is Vaiṣṇava. That is wanted.
Jayatīrtha: It's time to go back. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...that if we remain rascals, then that Gaurasundara's example will be followed. One day you'll again become crazy and close up everything and smoke. That's all. My Guru Mahārāja used to say, prāṇa arthe yaṅra sei hetu pracāra. "One who has got life, he can preach." The dead man cannot preach. So you become with life, not like dead man. Without life... Just like all my godbrothers. They are dead men. And therefore they are envious of my activities. They have no life. If you want to make easy-going life, showing the Deity and then sleep, then it is a failure movement.
Bahulāśva: Jaya Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Now, I have given the solution. The ratha must be there. It may not move. That is another thing. It will stand. The Deity will move on palanquin accordingly. Take this sanction. And then, coming back, hold big meeting, protest meeting. Ratha must be there. It will not move. The movement will be by palanquin. I think... I don't think there is any difficulty. How there can be any objection? Reasonably? There cannot be any objection. Let the ratha stand there, and the Deity moves according to your sanction... What objection can be there?
Jayatīrtha: Unless there's a conspiracy, there should be no objection.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That will disclose their conspiracy. "We abide by your order that without your order our ratha will not move, go to the Trafalgar... That's all right. You have allowed palanquin. That's accepted." Do like that, tactfully. First of all, take the sanction. In America, in... They have appreciated. That Reverend Powell. No, there is no objection anywhere. Why this rascal, falling-down nation, British, they're objecting? Apāt-kāle viparīta-buddhi. They are falling down, they will commit offense and discrepancies more and more so that they will be nowhere. I think after this Queen, this monarchy there, the so-called monarchy will be also finished. Because her son, her husband, both of them are hippies. The Queen's husband and Queen's son, the Prince of Wales, both of them are hippies. So this monarchy will be also finished. (pause) What that Mahādeva is doing there in Africa?
Brahmānanda: He's not doing very well.
Prabhupāda: He's a rascal, and he was given in charge. Another rascal, Śyāmasundara. What he's doing, sitting and..., only?
Brahmānanda: Just sitting and writing things that cannot be understood.
Prabhupāda: Writing where?
Brahmānanda: In the temple.
Prabhupāda: And the other?
Brahmānanda: He's doing all right.
Prabhupāda: Let him stay there. Don't allow him to come out. Yes.
Brahmānanda: He was planning to leave any day.
Prabhupāda: No, he cannot go. Then we shall charge you all theft charges.
Prabhupāda: Theft charges. He's, he stolen money, and he has stolen something in Bombay also.
Jayatīrtha: Prabhupāda, they still have so many debts from last year.
Jayatīrtha: They still owe money for last year's festival, so many thousands.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is... And even somehow or other, he goes out, then he should not be allowed strictly either in our, this temple or that temple.
Prabhupāda: Let him go to hell.
Brahmānanda: Actually, he was planning to see Revatīnandana Swami.
Brahmānanda: He was planning to go and visit Revatīnandana.
Prabhupāda: Now, the Revatīnandana and this man and Śyāmasundara is making a clique. I can understand. What they are planning, that also I know. But I don't wish to disclose it. So if these things come, then how this movement will go on? Politics, diplomacy, fraud, cheating, these are the general qualification of the western countries.
Prabhupāda: Politics, diplomacy, fraud, cheating. These things are the general qualification of the western people. Do you admit or not?
Prabhupāda: If they are, these things come within our movement, then it will not be succesful. Tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). One has to become purified. Even sometimes we have to take... But that is for Kṛṣṇa's. There must be now checking that all these rascals may not join and spoil the movement. You should not admit.
Bali Mardana: Yes.
Prabhupāda: They can come and go.
Bali Mardana: We should not make a haven for rascals.
Bali Mardana: We should not create a haven for rascals.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So how it will be done unless you GBC members become very strong and with good brain? Now, first of all save this situation. This is only solution, as I have suggested, that "The ratha must be there. We are not moving." And take lawyers. And the Deity will be moved. And we'll come to the ratha and go back. That's all. And we shall abide by all the rules. That's all. They saw it that in open sunshine thousands of people, ten thousands of people or more than that, fifteen thousand people, they stood on the Trafalgar Square for three hours. And they do not go to the church. So they must have seen there is something. Otherwise, how people taken so much interest. And there is, actually.
Bali Mardana: Yes. Just like in the San Francisco paper they admitted, "This is the most popular festival."
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. San Francisco also. Fifteen thousand people attended my lecture silently. So they are seeing now there is something in this movement, and if this movement, it is allowed to go on without any objection, then Christianity will be finished. That is the conspiracy behind it. That lecture is recorded? The, which I gave in the, that society of the priests and...
Satsvarūpa: The fathers?
Satsvarūpa: Yes, I...
Prabhupāda: So you can hear that lecture, how it was. They appreciated so much. We have no disrespect for Christianity. (pause) At least, expose our so-called Indian ambassador and others... Approach them, that "Help us. What is this? What for you are here?" Even they do not allow by agitation, make the movement very important. Make profit this side or that side. That is businessman. The businessman makes profit when the price is going down and when the price is going up. They make their profit. That is businessman. Just like our Tripurāri, he goes on selling his book in any condition. He finds out some means how to sell in this condition. This is intelligence, how to deal in different circumstances and make profit. That is brain. And if you make condition, "If these conditions are there, then I can make business," that is foolishness.
Brahmānanda: You told me that when I came from Pakistan to India. I was complaining how difficult it was, but you said that a businessman makes profit in any circumstances.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is business. They are... Police has no eyes to see that the Bala-Krishna (Guru Maharaji) is regularly cheating. Any man can understand.