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There must be division

Expressions researched:
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Srimad-Bhagavatam

SB Canto 1

In the best interest of human society there must be such divisions of life, otherwise no social institution can grow in a healthy state.
SB 1.2.13, Purport:

Human society all over the world is divided into four castes and four orders of life. The four castes are the intelligent caste, the martial caste, the productive caste and the laborer caste. These castes are classified in terms of one's work and qualification and not by birth. Then again there are four orders of life, namely the student life, the householder's life, the retired and the devotional life. In the best interest of human society there must be such divisions of life, otherwise no social institution can grow in a healthy state.

SB Canto 4

In civilized human society there must be the divisions of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya and śūdra, and everyone must properly execute his occupational duty in accordance with his division.
SB 4.24.29, Purport:

Here it is stated (sva-dharma-niṣṭhaḥ) that when a living entity comes to a civilized form of life, there must be sva-dharma, social divisions according to one's work and qualifications. This is indicated in

Bhagavad-gītā (4.13):

cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ
guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ

"According to the three modes of material nature and the work ascribed to them, the four divisions of human society were created by Me."

In civilized human society there must be the divisions of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya and śūdra, and everyone must properly execute his occupational duty in accordance with his division. Here it is described (svadharma-niṣṭhaḥ) that it does not matter whether one is a brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya or śūdra. If one sticks to his position and properly executes his particular duty, he is considered a civilized human being. Otherwise he is no better than an animal.

SB Canto 7

As mentioned in Bhagavad-gītā (4.13), cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ: there must be four divisions of human society according to the work and qualities of men.
SB 7.14.11, Purport:

As mentioned in Bhagavad-gītā (4.13), cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ: there must be four divisions of human society according to the work and qualities of men. Men with the lowest qualities cannot do any work that requires higher intelligence. However, although such a division of men must exist according to their quality and work, it is suggested herewith that everyone must have the necessities of life. The communists of the present day are in favor of supplying the necessities of life to everyone, but they consider only the human beings and not the lower animals. The Bhāgavatam's principles are so broad, however, that it recommends that the necessities of life be supplied to everyone, man or animal, regardless of good or bad qualities.

SB Canto 10.1 to 10.13

According to Vedic principles, there must be divisions of human society (cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13)). There should be brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas and śūdras, and everyone should learn to worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
SB 10.2.34, Purport:

Even in the lowest stage, the karmīs are advised to work for the sake of the Lord.

yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra
loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ

"Work done as a sacrifice for Viṣṇu has to be performed, otherwise work binds one to this material world." (BG 3.9) The words yajñārthāt karmaṇaḥ indicate that while performing all kinds of duties, one should remember that these duties should be performed to satisfy the Supreme Lord (sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya (BG 18.46)). According to Vedic principles, there must be divisions of human society (cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13)). There should be brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas and śūdras, and everyone should learn to worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead (tam abhyarcya). This is real human society, and without this system we are left with animal society.

Sri Caitanya-caritamrta

CC Madhya-lila

Actually we see that different people are engaged in different ways; therefore there must be divisions according to work. To attain perfection, one must make devotional service the center of life.
CC Madhya 8.58, Purport:

Every man should perform his occupational duty in the light of his particular tendency. According to his abilities, one should accept a position in the varṇāśrama institution. The divisions of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya and śūdra are natural divisions within society. Indeed, everyone has a prescribed duty according to the varṇāśrama-dharma. Those who properly execute their prescribed duties live peacefully and are not disturbed by material conditions. The spiritual orders—brahmacarya, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa—are called āśramas. If one executes his prescribed duty in both the social and spiritual orders, the Supreme Personality of Godhead is satisfied. If one neglects his duties, however, he becomes a transgressor and a candidate for a hellish condition. Actually we see that different people are engaged in different ways; therefore there must be divisions according to work. To attain perfection, one must make devotional service the center of life. In this way one can awaken his natural instincts by work, association and education. One should accept the varṇāśrama divisions by qualification, not by birth. Unless this system is introduced, human activities cannot be systematically executed.

Lectures

Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures

The whole human civilization should be based on this principle. There must be division. The division is already there. They should be coordinated, systematized.
Lecture on BG 1.44 -- London, July 31, 1973:

According to Vedic civilization, there is division of varṇa: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. So activities must be done according to the varṇāśrama prescription. A brāhmaṇa is ordered to do like this. Satyaḥ śamo damas titikṣa ārjavam. You should practice this. A kṣatriya should practice this. And a vaiśya should practice this. So therefore it is called varṇāśrama—the prescribed duties are already there. Therefore perfect human society means... First of all there must be this division, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya. And when they act the duties of that particular position, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa, that is perfection of life. It doesn't matter whether you are a śūdra or you are a brāhmaṇa, but if you act for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa according to the prescription of your position, then your life is perfect. That is wanted. The whole human civilization should be based on this principle. There must be division. The division is already there. They should be coordinated, systematized.

Intelligent class of men, administrator class of men, productive class of men, and laborer class of men. You call it by different names, but there must be such division.
Lecture on BG 2.11 -- Edinburgh, July 16, 1972:

If the body is to be maintained, then you must maintain properly your head, your arms, your belly, and leg. The cooperation. You have heard many times the caste system of India: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. This is not artificial. It is natural. In any society you go, not only in India, in any other country, these four classes of men are there. Intelligent class of men, administrator class of men, productive class of men, and laborer class of men. You call it by different names, but there must be such division. As I told you, there are divisions in my own body—the brain department, the arms department, the belly department, and the leg department. So all the kings, they belong to the arms department for protection of the people. So formerly, the kṣatriyas..., kṣatriya means one who gives protection to the citizens from being harmed by other enemies. That is called kṣatriya.

In order to keep smooth facilities for human life, there must be four divisions.
Lecture on BG 4.13 -- New York, April 8, 1973:

This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. How, we are helping people how to get out of this material body, and revive your own spiritual body and, in that spiritual body, you go back to home, back to Godhead. This is the process. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). But people are so attracted to this material body that they are prepared to become cats and dogs next life, but they are not prepared to go back to home, back to Godhead. This is the problem.

So why this problem? Because the human society is in chaos. A chaotic condition. There must be division of four classes. One class must be brāhmaṇa, intelligent class of men. And one should be kṣatriya, one class, the administrators. Because human society, they require good consulting brain, good administrators, good producers and good worker. That is the division of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says: catur varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). In order to keep smooth facilities for human life, there must be four divisions. If you say that don't, "We don't require brāhmaṇa,"... If you don't require brāhmaṇa, then you'll suffer.

It is not possible because each and everyone is working under the influence of different modes of nature. Therefore there must be division, natural division.
Lecture on BG 4.13-14 -- New York, August 1, 1966:

This verse was being discussed in our last meeting, that there are four divisions of men in the human society, and that division is natural. That is not artificial because the whole material nature is working under the influence of three modes of nature: goodness, passion and ignorance. You cannot classify the whole human race into one. So long we are in the material world, it is not possible to make everyone on the same standard. It is not possible because each and everyone is working under the influence of different modes of nature. Therefore there must be division, natural division. This point we have discussed.

But when we transcend this material plane, then there is oneness. There is no more division. Then how to transcend? That transcendental nature is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As soon as we become fully absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are transcendental to these material modes of nature.

There must be division, because it is ordained by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. How we can violate?
Lecture on BG 4.14 -- Bombay, April 3, 1974:

Parāṁ gatim, that is open for everyone. It is not that because one is śūdra or one is caṇḍāla, he is not allowed to enter into the kingdom of God. Only the brāhmaṇas are allowed. No, it is not like that. The same thing, same example, that in the body there are four divisions: the head division, the arm division, the belly division, and the leg division. It is not that only the head get the facilities of living condition. No. Everyone.

But there must be division. That is scientific. Otherwise the human life will be spoiled. That I have tried to explain last night. There must be division, because it is ordained by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. How we can violate? There must be the brahminical class, the kṣatriya class, the vaiśya class and the śūdra class. Then everything will be maintained very proficiently.

For upkeep of the human society in order, according to the quality and work there must be division.
Lecture on BG 7.1 -- Fiji, May 24, 1975:

So in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya. As soon as we are in the material world, we are under the influence either of these three guṇas: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Those who are purely in association with the modes of goodness, sattva-guṇa, they are considered as brāhmaṇa. And those who are associated with the rajo-guṇa, passion, they are called kṣatriyas. And those who are associating with the tamo-guṇa, ignorance, they are called the śūdras. And the mixture of tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa is the position of the vaiśya. In this way, there are four divisions of men everywhere. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). According to the association of particular type of modes of nature and working in that way, it makes a division of the human society. That is required. For upkeep of the human society in order, according to the quality and work there must be division. But that is not that division as we are thinking at the present moment in India—a man is born in the brāhmaṇa family, he is brāhmaṇa. No. He must have the brahminical qualification. That is first consideration. Śamo damaḥ satyaṁ śaucam ārjavaṁ titikṣā, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). That is the verdict of the śāstra. Not by birth. Birth is a facility. If you have the opportunity to take birth in a brāhmaṇa family, then you have got the best opportunity to acquire the brahminical qualification.

By quality and by work, there is, or there must be four divisions of the social structure.
Lecture on BG 18.41 -- Stockholm, September 7, 1973:

I shall try to explain the social structure of the human society as they are described in the Bhagavad-gītā. In previous chapters, Śrī Kṛṣṇa has explained: cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). By quality and by work, there is, or there must be four divisions of the social structure. Cātur-varṇyam, first-class, second-class, third-class and fourth-class. That is very natural. Just like in your body, my body is divided into four divisions. The head, head department. In every, I mean to say, unit, there is head department, the first-class department, the second-class department. So we can understand from our own body, there is head department, there is arms department, there is belly department and there is the leg department. So head is first-class. Because if the arms, belly and legs are there and head is cut off, then everything is useless. If the head is there, arm is cut off, you can go on with your business. So there is four divisions everywhere.

According to these three modes of material nature, there must be division of the society.
Lecture on BG 18.41 -- Stockholm, September 7, 1973:

So according to these three modes of material nature, there must be division of the society. The first class men are called brāhmaṇa, most learned scholar. Learned scholar means, as I was explaining, one who has complete knowledge of God, that is learned scholar. Otherwise, to know how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sexual intercourse and how to defend, this, these knowledge is also there in the animals. They know how to eat. There is no need of university for teaching how to eat or how to sleep or how to have sex life or how to defend. These are animal necessities. But actually human being should be still more advanced in knowledge. That knowledge is not comprising only eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That knowledge is to understand the Absolute Truth, God. That knowledge.

No part of society is unimportant provided there is cooperation. But there must be division, first-class, second class, third class, fourth-class. There must be division.
Lecture on BG 18.41 -- Stockholm, September 7, 1973:

Bhagavad-gītā is the summary of all Vedic literature. Therefore, it is advised here that how the first-class of men should be trained up. How the second-class men should be trained up, how the third-class men should be trained up and how the fourth-class men should be trained up. Not that everyone should become first-class. Even everyone is not first-class, because there is cooperation, there is no distinction between first-class and third-class or fourth-class, the same example. Just like if there is some disease on my leg, it does not mean that I shall neglect, I shall take care of the head only. No. I spend more money to cure the disease of the leg. May not be I don't spend any money for the head. So no part of society is unimportant provided there is cooperation. But there must be division, first-class, second class, third class, fourth-class. There must be division. Without division, as there is division anywhere you go, in office, there are the head department, the directors, they are working in a different atmosphere. There must be division, there is already division, you cannot avoid it. Because the material nature is working in three modes of material nature. So anyone who is in the modes of goodness, he's not equal to the person who is in the modes of ignorance. That is not possible. There is difference, but they should be trained up in such a way that they can cooperate to understand the (this) Absolute Truth. That is first-class society. That is real perfect human society.

Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures

The varṇāśrama division must be there. That is human society.
Lecture on SB 1.2.6 -- Calcutta, February 26, 1974:

So actually this statement of the śāstras, that kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ, hardly there is brāhmaṇa or kṣatriya or vaiśya because nobody is doing their duty. Instead of producing food grains, vaiśyas are engaged in running on big, big factories. So factory cannot produce food grains. Therefore there is food shortage or people are not getting ample foodstuff, they are starving, and there must be agitation. There is no brāhmaṇa's guidance, there is no kṣatriya kings, and śūdras are also not executing their duty. Then what will be the result? This is the result. This is the result. Therefore this is material dharma. Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. That vibhāga, or division must be there. Otherwise there must be chaos. Just like in your body there is division, the brain division, here, the brain division, the arms division, and the belly division, and the leg division. So these divisions are required. If you have no brain, then how you can control your other senses? If you have no strength in your arms, how can you protect yourself? If you have no digestive power, there is no food, how you live? And if there is no leg, or the laborer class, how you will walk? This is natural division. Therefore varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ, the varṇāśrama division must be there. That is human society.

So long we are in the material world, there must be four divisions.
Lecture on SB 1.2.14 -- Los Angeles, August 17, 1972:

It is not that everyone will become brāhmaṇa or everyone will become kṣat... No. At the present moment, the Communists are trying: "Everyone should be Communist." That is not possible. You cannot make everyone of the same class. No. That is not possible. You have to use your intelligence in such a way that these four divisions can work cooperatively and become perfect.

And that is suggested here, svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). That common platform means how to please Kṛṣṇa. Never mind you are brāhmaṇa, you are kṣatriya, you are vaiśya. But so long we are in the material world, there must be four divisions. The kṣatriyas should give protection; otherwise the demons will disturb. So there is the necessity of war with the demons, for kṣatriya. So these three classes are required, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, to give protection. And as soon as the social system is organized, the perfectional point is to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Lord.

There must be divisions. They must be trained up.
Lecture on SB 1.2.28-29 -- Vrndavana, November 8, 1972:

So ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama... Varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ must be there. The present civilization is suffering because there is no such thing as varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. There is no selection that there must be the most intelligent class of men, brāhmaṇa, the real kṣatriya who can give protection to the people, kṣatriya. That is real kṣatriya. And vaiśya who can actually give protection to the cows and produce agriculture, agricultural products and trade. And śūdras, ordinary laborer class. There must be divisions. They must be trained up. I have repeatedly said in America that there is draft board. They call, conscription, they call any young man to the military department, but most of the boys, young men, they try to avoid this, this military. Most of them. One of the causes of the hippie movement is due to the government's draft board. They want to avoid it. So I have repeatedly said: "Why do they avoid?" In India still we have got some martial races, the Gerkhas, the Sikhs. They will be very glad to accept military training. Still. Because there is kṣatriya spirit. But in other countries they have been made all śūdras. How they can take up kṣatriya spirit? That is not possible.

We are divisioned. Either you take it varṇa, āśrama, or by occupation, anything, there must be some division, not that everyone is the same.
Lecture on SB 1.8.42 -- Mayapura, October 22, 1974:

If you remain a physicist or chemist and don't understand Kṛṣṇa, it is a waste of time. It is waste of time.

ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā
varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ
svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya
saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam
(SB 1.2.13)

We are divisioned. Either you take it varṇa, āśrama, or by occupation, anything, there must be some division, not that everyone is the same. Somebody is engineer. Somebody is medical man. Somebody is chemist. Somebody is philosopher. Somebody is brāhmaṇa. Somebody is śūdra. You take. Division must be there. It is not possible to make everyone all the same. That is rascaldom. That is, means, they have no knowledge. Just like the communists. They tried to make one. They failed. That is not possible. Still, they are going on: "Laborer class and the manager class." Why you make two? So if instead of two, if we make four, what is the difference in philosophy? They could not do it. That is not possible. There must be, because Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam: (BG 4.13) "The four divisions is created by Me." How you can nullify Kṛṣṇa's creation? That is not possible. So division may be there. It doesn't matter. That is created by Kṛṣṇa. But still, there can be oneness. What is that? Saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). Everyone try to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Then it is oneness.

How you can make classless society? There must be divisions. There must be classes, color, colorful. So it has to be scientifically arranged, how all classes can cooperate for one purpose and they develop very nicely in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Lecture on SB 1.9.2 -- Los Angeles, May 16, 1973:

Without brahminical culture, what is the value of the society? There is no value. It is animal society. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā recommends, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Here you cannot find all one class of men. That is not possible. There is those rascals who are trying to have a classless society, no class, all one. That is rascaldom. That is not possible. There must be classes. That is scientific. Why? Because this material nature is being conducted under three modes: first class, second class, third class. Goodness, passion and ignorance. So how you can make classless society? There must be divisions. There must be classes, color, colorful. So it has to be scientifically arranged, how all classes can cooperate for one purpose and they develop very nicely in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). Mayā sṛṣṭam means anything created by God, you cannot nullify it, you cannot reject it. That is not possible. You have to accept it and possibly utilize it. Therefore devotees, they take it for granted, even there is distressed condition of life, they take it that "It is created by God. I am now in distress. It is creation of God. So why shall I hate it? Let me tolerate. Let me undergo this distressed condition of life."

There are divisions of the human society. First-class men, second-class men, third-class men, fourth-class men, that, in the Vedic civilization. Not that all, all one class. No. Why? There must be a division.
Lecture on SB 1.9.3 -- Los Angeles, May 17, 1973:

A brāhmaṇa is already the best man, but if he becomes a saintly person, then it becomes still more magnified. So in another place these brāhmaṇas were addressed, ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ: "You are all brāhmaṇa, the topmost of the human society." There are divisions of the human society. First-class men, second-class men, third-class men, fourth-class men, that, in the Vedic civilization. Not that all, all one class. No. Why? There must be a division. That I have already explained. So the qualified brāhmaṇas, they are first-class men. The topmost class. And the second-class men, the kṣatriyas. And the third-class men, vaiśyas, mercantile, simply "Where to get money?" And they are, according to Vedic civilization, third-class men. But at the present moment those who are acquiring money somehow or other, they are first-class men. It doesn't matter what is his qualification. If he has acquired some money some way or other, then he is a first-class man. This is Kali-yuga. In the Kali-yuga there is no honor for qualification. There is honor for money only. That's all.

There must be division. But people are very much anxious to make classless society, no division. And that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness society. We have no such division. Division means under the jurisdiction of the three modes of material nature. That is division.
Lecture on SB 1.9.3 -- Los Angeles, May 17, 1973:

So Kali-yuga is so polluted that the minister is dishonest, the judge is dishonest, and what to speak of ordinary men. So only thing is that you get money some way or other. Then you can pass on as a nice gentleman, polished. You keep yourself always polished, and within you may be full with all dirty things, but if you have got your pockets filled up with coins and notes, then you are nice. Formerly it was not like that. One must be qualified. Varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ.

Vibhāgaśaḥ. There must be division. But people are very much anxious to make classless society, no division. And that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness society. We have no such division. Division means under the jurisdiction of the three modes of material nature. That is division. Otherwise, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, these divisions are calculated when one is under the control of the material nature. But if you become devotee, the material nature has no more any control over you. That is the difference between a perfect Kṛṣṇa conscious person and a perfect, I mean to say, mundane person. The difference is that a Kṛṣṇa conscious, a devotee, is no more under the influence of the three modes of material nature. But ordinarily, everyone should be..., is—"he should be" not.(?) He is under the control. Therefore they are called dvija-śreṣṭhāḥ, the best of the brāhmaṇas. Even a brāhmaṇa is also under the control of material nature. But the same brāhmaṇa, when he becomes a Vaiṣṇava, a devotee, he becomes the best of the brāhmaṇas.

Divisions are there. Division must be there.
Lecture on SB 1.10.4 -- London, November 25, 1973:

That's it. Everything is cycle. If you execute your prescribed duties as a brāhmaṇa, as a kṣatriya, as a vaiśya, or as a śūdra, as a brahmacārī, as a gṛhastha, as a vānaprastha, or as a sannyāsī... Divisions are there. Division must be there. Just like government. For executing nicely the governmental business, there are so many departments. Not that one department, only king, queen. Then government... Why the government is spending so much money, maintaining so many building? Simply queen's palace, that Buckingham, that is sufficient? No. There must be departments. So these are departments, this brāhmaṇa, this kṣatriya, the vaiśyas, the śūdras. Just like in your body there are departments. This department, brain, head. Therefore it is called head, head office, head office. Why do you refer to the head office? It has come from this head. Why Godhead? The Supreme Godhead, the Supreme. Therefore we say, "Godhead. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya: (BG 7.7) "There is no more superior person than Me." So the divisions required. The divisions required.

Everyone is engaged, and he's doing his own business. But this division must be there. Without division the society will be in chaos.
Lecture on SB 1.16.4 -- Los Angeles, January 1, 1974:

So it was the business of the king to see that things are going on. First of all, there is classification: intelligent class or brāhmaṇa; and the administrator class or kṣatriya; and the mercantile class, money-producing class. So everyone is engaged, and he's doing his own business. But this division must be there. Without division the society will be in chaos. The example is given... I have several times mentioned that, that just like in this body, there is division: the head division, the arms division, the belly division, and the leg division. They are all required. You cannot say that simply legs will do. What about the head and arms? "I don't require." That is not... That is dead body. That is dead body. Any part of the body, you cannot miss. They must be all in order; then your body is fit. Similarly, in the human society, the social body, there must be these classes: the head class, the arm class, the belly class and the leg class. Very scientific. You cannot simply... If you have got intelligent class of men, but nobody is helping him, then what, what will be the use of intelligence? The intelligent class must be there, but to help him the less intelligent class men also required. Just like if there are only intelligent class, that will be chaos. Nobody will care for anyone. Sometimes we'll find in our society, all intelligent class, and they fight each other.

There must be division; otherwise it's chaotic. Nowhere you'll find without division it is going on very smoothly. There must be division.
Lecture on SB 2.2.5 -- New York, March 5, 1975:

So this human society should be divided into eight divisions. That is first-class human society. Just like any organization, any establishment, there are divisions of labor. The directing board, board of directors there are, then the secretarial board, then ordinary clubs, then menial, then workers. There must be division; otherwise it's chaotic. Nowhere you'll find without division it is going on very smoothly. There must be division. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). It is ordered by God that there should be four divisions for the materialistic condition of life and four divisions for spiritual upliftment. So there must be the brāhmaṇa, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). Varṇa means four divisions of society. Varṇa means class. It has been taken now as caste; but actually class. Class is not caste. Caste, of course... Throughout the whole world there is no such thing as caste. But anyway, in India there is caste. But Kṛṣṇa says that cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam: (BG 4.13) "Four divisions of classes I have created—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra." Who is a brāhmaṇa? That is also described in the Bhagavad-gītā: satya, śama, dama, titikṣā, ārjava, āstikyam, jñāna, vijñāna, so many qualifications required to become a brāhmaṇa. Not that because I was born in a brāhmaṇa family... This is discussed in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that to take birth in a brāhmaṇa family is not all. You must be qualified, śamo damas titikṣā. That is required. The Indian culture has failed at the present moment because instead of considering the qualifications, they accept only the birth: The birth in a brāhmaṇa family makes a man a brāhmaṇa. No. That is not the shastric injunction. Qualities. There must be qualities.

There must be division. There may be only a few number of brāhmaṇas, but there must be ideal brāhmaṇas so that people may learn that "Here is the first-class brāhmaṇa. Here is the first-class man. Let us take instruction from him, not from so-called politicians."
Lecture on SB 2.3.18-19 -- Bombay, March 23, 1977, At Cross Maidan Pandal:

It is not possible, of course, to realize Brahman by everyone. That is not possible. But there must be an ideal institution. Unfortunately, at the present moment it is very difficult to find out where is that ideal brāhmaṇa, but there must be. Kṛṣṇa says. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement includes this, that cātur-varṇyaṁ māyā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). There must be division. There may be only a few number of brāhmaṇas, but there must be ideal brāhmaṇas so that people may learn that "Here is the first-class brāhmaṇa. Here is the first-class man. Let us take instruction from him, not from so-called politicians." This is Indian civilization. Don't think... Formerly even Lord Rāmacandra, who was the king... He is God Himself. Still, He used to consult learned brāhmaṇas, sages, saintly persons, for governmental duties. The division must be there.

So there are so many things to be done in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Don't take it that it is simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting is the prime factor because if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, then gradually everything will be clear in your mind.

Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ
bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam
(CC Antya 20.12).

Whole world is suffering on account of all contaminated things accumulated within our heart. So the Bhāgavata process is to hear from the right person.

In the society, there must be divisions. Not that everyone should be called, "Come on, you go to fight." Where is his training? That was not the system.
Lecture on SB 3.1.10 -- Dallas, May 21, 1973:

Kṛṣṇa consciousness includes varieties of activities. They, in..., the press representatives they asked me, "Whether your students, do you take part in politics? Is it sanctioned?" Why not? Our Bhagavad-gītā is produced in battlefield, in battlefield. So why should I deride battle? No. When there is need for fighting, there must be fighting. This world is like that. Otherwise there is no need of fighting. But there is a class of men who will fight. Still it is existing. When there is fight, those who are meant for military purposes, they fight. Not the civilians go and fight. No. Similarly, in the society, there must be divisions. Not that everyone should be called, "Come on, you go to fight." Where is his training? That was not the system. First of all, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). These children, according to strict Vedic principle, by practical psychology, they should be tested, "What is the tendency of this boy?" There can be four kinds of tendencies: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. Some child is to become a brāhmaṇa, some child is to be become a kṣatriya, some child is to become a vaiśya, and the rest, śūdras. They do not... Śūdras does not require any training. Śūdra means no training. Ordinary worker class. Otherwise other three, especially two, namely the brāhmaṇas and kṣatriyas, they require very magnificent training. Because they will administer the whole affairs of the society.

Yajña means we have to satisfy the Supreme Person. That is called yajña. And this process can be executed when the human society is very regulated. Regulated means there must be division of these varṇas and āśramas.
Lecture on SB 3.25.3 -- Bombay, November 3, 1974:

So behind this material energy... Material energy, just like we see, there is cloud, there is thundering sound, there is rain. And from the rain, there is crops, there is food grain. Then we eat those food grains. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ. Then, yajñād bhavati parjanyo yajñaḥ karma-samudbhavaḥ (BG 3.14). These things are already stated. Everything, the origin is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Yajña. Yajñaḥ karma-samudbhavaḥ. Yajña means we have to satisfy the Supreme Person. That is called yajña. And this process can be executed when the human society is very regulated. Regulated means there must be division of these varṇas and āśramas. Varṇa means four varṇas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. And four āśramas: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. They have got their respective duties. So unless the human society is divided into these eight scientific divisions and everyone acts according to his position, there cannot be any peace in the world. That is called varṇāśrama.

In order to realize the highest goal of life there must be division in the society and there must be division in spiritual life.
Lecture on SB 5.5.1 -- Johannesburg, October 20, 1975:

We have got our experience. Not that everyone is equally intelligent. No. There is difference of classification or intelligence or genuineness. There are so many things, division. So here also you have got division, classification. That is natural.

So first-class, the first-class men, means they should be trained as brāhmaṇa, at least one class of men. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). In order to realize the highest goal of life there must be division in the society and there must be division in spiritual life. The social life is divided into brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. Brāhmaṇa means the most intelligent class of men, one who can understand God. That is brāhmaṇa. Brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ. First-class man means not first-class dress. First-class man means he has got full knowledge: jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). Full knowledge. He knows what is God. That is first-class man. So the second-class men means the kṣatriyas, the administrators, the administrative class of men, because government men, they must be very sober to rule over the citizens. There are varieties of men, and, to regulate them so that the state may go on very peacefully, so this is dependent on the kṣatriyas. And they must be prepared to fight to the enemies. Everything is described in the śāstra, in the Bhagavad-gītā. Tejo śauryaṁ yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam. The administrator should be so brave that whenever there is war they must first of all come forward to fight so that soldiers and others may follow him. So they are second-class men, and they should be instructed by the first-class men. Then their activities will be nice.

Aryan civilization means the division must be there. Kṛṣṇa personally says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma (BG 4.13). The varṇāśrama must be there because the whole aim is how to please the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Lecture on SB 5.5.20 -- Vrndavana, November 8, 1976:

The brāhmaṇa should live by education, by knowledge. Everyone will honor them. They will give advice to the śūdras, er, to the kṣatriyas. When Paraśurāma killed eleven..., twenty-one times all the kṣatriyas, his father chastised him that "This is not the business of a brāhmaṇa. My dear son, you are so angry, you have killed all the kṣatriyas and you have killed Kārtavīryārjuna by anger. Oh, you have done great sinful activities. It is not the business of the brāhmaṇa. Therefore you should retire for some time and go to holy places to counteract your sinful activities." This was spoken to Paraśurāma by his father.

So there must be division. A brāhmaṇa can kill anyone simply by words. He is so powerful. But he does not do that. When Viśvāmitra was disturbed by Taraka Rākṣasī in the forest, he came to Dasaratha Mahārāja for help. He could kill that Taraka Rākṣasī simply by his word, but he would not do that. This is not brāhmaṇa's business. He wanted to take the help of a kṣatriya and kill the rākṣasī. Kṣatriya can kill. Brāhmaṇa can take charity. A kṣatriya can exact taxes, and vaiśya be engaged in producing food grains. Kṛṣi gorakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (Bg 18.44). This is civilization. Aryan civilization means the division must be there. Kṛṣṇa personally says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma (BG 4.13). The varṇāśrama must be there because the whole aim is how to please the Supreme Personality of Godhead, because the Supreme Personality of Godhead has to be satisfied.

Nectar of Devotion Lectures

Without head, the arms, the belly, or the leg cannot work. So there should be cooperation. But the division must be there. This is the vision of Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa conscious persons. They do not say it is false. They utilize everything for the purpose of Kṛṣṇa.
The Nectar of Devotion -- Vrndavana, October 17, 1972:

The society must be divided... By natural way, it is divided: the intelligent class, the administrator class, the productive class, and the worker class. And they should cooperate. Then the society's perfect. The same example: Just like in your body you have got divisions, the head division, the arms division, the belly division and the leg division. It is not that leg is less important than the head. But leg is... Head is most important. Without head, the arms, the belly, or the leg cannot work. So there should be cooperation. But the division must be there. This is the vision of Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa conscious persons. They do not say it is false. They utilize everything for the purpose of Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Most scientific and authorized movement. Trying to place people in his original, constitutional position and cooperate for the service of Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

General Lectures

The four divisions of social system, namely the brāhmaṇa, the kṣatriya, the vaiśya and the śūdra. Before doing business, there must be a division who can do what kind of business. There are different businesses. Now we have taken that everyone should take everyone's business.
Lecture at Bharata Chamber of Commerce 'Culture and Business' -- Calcutta, January 30, 1973:

Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen, I thank you very much for kindly inviting me. I'll serve you to my capacity. Today's subject matter is "Culture and Business. So business, we mean business means the occupational duty. According to our Vedic culture, there are different types of businesses. As it is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgasaḥ (BG 4.13)—the four divisions of social system, namely the brāhmaṇa, the kṣatriya, the vaiśya and the śūdra. Before doing business, there must be a division who can do what kind of business. There are different businesses. Now we have taken that everyone should take everyone's business. That is not very scientifical division. Therefore there is cultural division. Just like the whole body. The whole body's one unit, but there are different departments also—just like the head department, the arms department, the belly department and the leg department. This is scientific. The head department is called the brāhmaṇa. In the society... And the arms department is called the kṣatriyas, and the belly department is called the vaiśyas, and the leg department is called the śūdras. This is scientific division of business. Although the head department is most important department, because without head, other departments, the arms departments, the belly department and the leg department will be finished. If the arms department is lacking, still business can go on. If the leg department is lacking, the business may go on. But if the head department is not there, if the, your head is cut off from the body, then in spite of having all these arms, legs and bellies, they all become useless. So the head department is meant for culture.

The social division must be there. The most intellectual class of men, they should be engaged in studying the Vedas and acquire the knowledge and spread it to the human society so that they may be guided and do the needful for peaceful situation of the society. That is the guidance.
Lecture at World Health Organization -- Geneva, June 6, 1974:

The natural division... Just like you have got natural division in your body: the head, the arms, the belly and the legs, similarly, social divisions, there is. Some of them are very intelligent men, class of men, and some of them are martial-spirited persons, and some of them are interested in trades and industry, and some of them are interested only for filling up the belly. So this is natural division. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam. If this cātur-varṇyaṁ, this division... The most intelligent class of men, they should be trained up as brāhmaṇa. Śamo damo titikṣa ārjava jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). The social division must be there. The most intellectual class of men, they should be engaged in studying the Vedas and acquire the knowledge and spread it to the human society so that they may be guided and do the needful for peaceful situation of the society. That is the guidance. The kṣatriyas, they're meant for protecting the society, military power, or martial-spirited. When there is danger, attack, they'll give us protection. Similarly, there must be a class of men for producing food grain, and giving protection to the cows. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). And the rest of the people, who cannot work as intellectuals or as martial-spirited persons or cannot take to production of foodstuffs, they should assist all these three classes of men. And they are called śūdras. This is the social division. So this is called varṇāśrama-dharma. The word dharma is used. Dharma means occupational duty. Dharma does not mean some religious sentiment. No. Natural division and the occupational duty.

Philosophy Discussions

You have killed all these things, but the system is there. Therefore the brahminical culture is above the kṣatriya culture. Therefore this division must be there; brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra.
Philosophy Discussion on Hegel:

Śyāmasundara: But here he says there's no higher body between two, jurisdiction between states, that it can only be settled by war. There's no court or higher authority for judging between states.

Prabhupāda: There is higher body if there is religion, if there is philosophy, if there is learned section, brāhmaṇas, Kṛṣṇa conscious people. There is higher authority.

Śyāmasundara: He says there's no potent world authority.

Prabhupāda: No, you have killed all these things, but the system is there. Therefore the brahminical culture is above the kṣatriya culture. Therefore this division must be there; brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. The administrators, the kings, they are kṣatriyas, but above them the brāhmaṇas are there. But because there is no brahminical class—they have all killed them-therefore he says there is no authority.

The ultimate end is spiritual, but if the social order is not organized, then spiritual order is also disorganized. So there must be division.
Philosophy Discussion on B. F. Skinner and Henry David Thoreau:

Hayagrīva: This is B. F. Skinner. He's an American, contemporary American, and he's a behaviorist. He believes that technology can control people. Just as we can adjust the course of a spaceship, the environment can shape the individual, and therefore it is up to us to control the environment.

Prabhupāda: That is Vedic system, to control the whole mass of people in classification. The intelligent class, the administrative class, the productive class, and the worker class, and less than them, and in their respective position, if they cooperate for the common cause, that becomes a perfect society. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya... Therefore this system is called varṇāśrama, four varṇas and four āśrama, social order and spiritual order. The ultimate end is spiritual, but if the social order is not organized, then spiritual order is also disorganized. So there must be division of labor and activities.

Conversations and Morning Walks

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

So long you will be under the concept of this body, there must be caste division. So we have to come to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then there will be no caste.
Interview with Reporters -- November 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Just like Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ: (BG 4.13) "These four varṇas—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra—it is created by Me." But you are trying to kill it. Why? If you try to kill Kṛṣṇa's program, then how you will be happy?

Reporter: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Huh? There is no question of preference. Kṛṣṇa's creation, it is there. You are creating (indistinct) caste, jana-saṅgaś caste. Caste is already given, in a different name. How you can make casteless? That is not possible. The whole world—"I am American," "I am Indian"—this is caste, bigger caste. Yasyātma-buddhi-kuṇa. So long you will be under the concept of this body, there must be caste division. So we have to come to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then there will be no caste. Just like these boys, Americans, Europeans, Africans, Canadians, they have no caste, they have no nationality. They are simply for Kṛṣṇa. That is casteless.

Reporter: So are they brāhmaṇas?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Reporter: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa conscious means brāhmaṇa. Brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ.

Reporter: Not by birth?

Prabhupāda: Not by birth. They are brāhmaṇas by quality. They have got sacred thread. That is also there in the śāstra. Yasya hi yad lakṣaṇaṁ syat. Varṇa has been given. Varṇa. Varṇa, we want to compare symptoms. The brāhmaṇas are this: satya, samaḥ, damaḥ, titikṣa, ārjavam, jñānam vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). This is the symptom of brāhmaṇa. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. If you find these symptoms anywhere, he is a brāhmaṇa.

There must be systematic division of the work. Everyone should work. The brain will work, the hand will work, the belly will work, the leg will work, but the direction should be from the brain.
Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Dr. Singh: Everybody has a brain, all classes.

Prabhupāda: Therefore, the intelligent class means the brain of the society. They must work. Otherwise, how others will work? Working is compulsory for everyone.

Dr. Singh: They can fight also.

Prabhupāda: But just like the brain says that "Here is an enemy," so hand immediately strikes. Brain gives direction that "Here is an enemy coming," and he strikes with his hand. This is kṣatriya. And the belly supplies food, vaiśya. And the legs, śūdra, carries. So there must be systematic division of the work. Everyone should work. The brain will work, the hand will work, the belly will work, the leg will work, but the direction should be from the brain. Therefore, first of all duty is there must be an intelligent class of men directing. Then the other direction will follow. If the duty of the intelligent class of men is taken by the foolish rascals, then how this work will go on? That is first reformation, that we should pick up the intelligent class of men of the world and they will direct. And next the administrator class. And next the productive class. So intelligent class means one who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is intelligent, actual. Just like in Bhagavad-gītā it is said, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). Is it not? So jñānavān means the first-class intelligent class. So after many, many births, when one becomes actually wise, what is the symptom? Māṁ prapadyate, he immediately surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. Vasudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). That is the highest perfection of intelligence, to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then he will give direction to the administration. The basic principle is that without being Kṛṣṇa conscious, you cannot work properly. (Sanskrit) Because we neglected Kṛṣṇa, therefore brāhmaṇa, kṣatriyas, they have fallen down. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, everyone. (Sanskrit)

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

For spiritual emancipation there must be the division: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. So unless you accept this institution perfectly you cannot develop your consciousness as perfect human being.
Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Scholar: But by using threads, attributes of Hindu religion...

Prabhupāda: No, actually... Hindu, the word is not to be found in our Vedic scripture. It is the name given by the Mohammedans. So that is going on. Actually it is called varṇāśrama-dharma, four varṇas, four āśrama. The four varṇas, the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. And four āśramas-brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Combined together it is called varṇāśrama. So unless the human being follows this varṇāśrama principle he's not a human being. He's animal, because animal has no varṇa, no āśrama. The human society must be divided. Then, just like in this body there are four divisions—the head division, the arms division, the belly division, and the leg division—all these are required for complete body. Although, by comparative study, head is the most important department, but still the leg is not... that we don't require leg. Leg is also required. Similarly, the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, they're required to function the society perfectly. That is varṇa. And similarly, for spiritual emancipation there must be the division: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. So unless you accept this institution perfectly you cannot develop your consciousness as perfect human being.

Scholar: This divisions only in Hindus?

Prabhupāda: No, this division is meant for everyone.

Scholar: Mohammedans also accept this divisions?

Prabhupāda: Yes. They're accepting. If you don't accept any scientific truth that is your business. That is your business. If you say-two plus two equal to four—"No I don't accept." That is your business. But two plus two equal to four, that is a fact everywhere. Now how these boys have accepted? Now they have got sacred thread, they have become brāhmaṇa.

The division must be there, and the, it is the duty of the king to see that everyone is discharging according to his responsibility. That is king's duty.
Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

David Wynne: Yes, he prays five times a day. He's a Moslem.

Prabhupāda: That king should be a representative of God. That is ideal king. But if he thinks that "This kingdom is my property, and let me enjoy for my sense enjoyment," then it is all gone. If he thinks himself as representative of God... Just like we think. Therefore we are after our disciples: "Do this, do that, do that, do that." We want to see that my disciples also become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Similarly, it is the king's duty to see that every citizen becomes God conscious. Then he is representative of God. That is the first duty. The division must be there, and the, it is the duty of the king to see that everyone is discharging according to his responsibility. That is king's duty. A brāhmaṇa is acting exactly like brāhmaṇa. The kṣatriya is acting exactly like kṣatriya. A vaiśya is... Like that. It is the duty of a king to see that nobody's unemployed, everyone is engaged in his own occupational duty. That is the... And they must feel security of life, property, anxiety. That is perfect king.

There must be division of work.
Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Our training is... First of all, try to understand. We... Just like you have got four divisions in the body for maintaining the body. So the head division, the arm division, the belly division, and the leg division. The leg is doing its own work, walking. The hand is doing its own work. And the belly's doing its own work. And the brain is doing own work. It does not mean that when the brain is work, it does not require the help of the leg. But a brain does not require to learn the business of the leg. This is the idea. The brain requires the help of the leg. But does not mean that brain has to learn how to walk also.

Mother: Well, I'm a nurse, and so that is why I would like...

Prabhupāda: So there must be division of work. So you take from... When there is necessity of brain work, you take help from him. And when there is need of the walking, take leg, help from the leg. It is a cooperation. Not that everyone has to learn everything.

That is Vedic system of civilization. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. There must be divisions of work. Not that everyone has to learn everything.
Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Mother: You should be self-supporting in that way.

Prabhupāda: Self-supporting. We are self-supporting. Just like... I have given the example. The body, the social body... You can take of this body. There are four divisions: the head division, the arm division, the belly division, and the leg division. So belly is doing the work of the belly, stomach. The leg is walking. The hand is doing, defending, and the head and the brain is giving instruction to everyone. This is cooperation. So that is Vedic system of civilization. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. There must be divisions of work. Not that everyone has to learn everything.

Mother: No, I don't mean that. You're misunderstanding me.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Then your question is replied. When I need the help of a medical man, I go to the medical man.

Presupposing. There must be division.
Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Why... Why you are asking? My boys are the same.

Revatīnandana: Which ones? Which ones of us should become doctors here?

Mother: Well, all, all, all...

Revatīnandana: Supposing they all want to be preachers. Do you go to your seminaries and take one boy from each class to become a doctor?

Mother: Yes, well, if you had an epidemic of smallpox...

Revatīnandana: No. No, no.

Mother: ...or typhoid, you... You know what smallpox is like in India.

Prabhupāda: Presupposing. There must be division.

Revatīnandana: Do you go to your seminary and take one boy from each class to become a doctor?

Mother: It'd be no good at all being priest if you had smallpox, would it?

Revatīnandana: So therefore you do that. You go to your seminary and take one boy from each class to be a doctor. By force. "Now, you come..."

Prabhupāda: We are treating them.

I am talking generally, not of him, that everything must be, there must be division. Just like naturally we have got division. The whole object is to keep the body fit, but there is division: the head division, the arm division, the stomach division, and the leg division.
Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: When he was taking LSD, did you like that?

Mother: I didn't know, did I?

Prabhupāda: Then?

Mother: Until afterwards, and we found him.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mother: And this is it.

Prabhupāda: So there must be division for upkeep of the soc... That is missing. At the present moment, there is no division.

Mother: But he had a false religious experience, due to the LSD.

Prabhupāda: No, I am talking generally, not of him, that everything must be, there must be division. Just like naturally we have got division. The whole object is to keep the body fit, but there is division: the head division, the arm division, the stomach division, and the leg division. So similarly, there must be four classes of men in the society: the intelligent class of men, the administrator class of men, the productive class of men, and the laborer class of men. Everything is required. But not that the intelligent class of man has to learn the business of the laborer class of men. That is not required. Just try to understand. The laborer class of men, they are required. But one who is intelligent class, he, he cannot be trained up as laborer, ordinary laborer in the factory. That is mistake. He must work according to his capacity. If he's intelligent, he must be preacher, he must be God conscious. He would educate people that "This eating, sleeping is not all. There is God. You should understand. You have got a relationship with Him. If you want to have better life next, then you must become God conscious, you must be sinless." These things are required in the society. (loud noise of jet going over). What is the use of talking?

I say that there must be divisions. We are working on certain division.
Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Mother: Father, I understand that you have translated ten books.

Prabhupāda: Now again. Again the same question.

Mother: Is it not...?

Prabhupāda: I say that there must be divisions. We are working on certain division.

Mother: Well, tell me about the books you have translated. Are there some more to translate?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mother: Well, one day you will die. Now who will translate them then? Continue the translating?

Prabhupāda: There are many. There are many. They are being trained up. There are many.

Our Vedic philosophy is that everyone must work. But there must be division of work. Just like in your body there are different parts. The head department, the arms department, the belly department, and the legs department.
Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is a good philosophy.

Banker: Therefore, then he started building libraries all over the country and everything else, besides his steel company. But this has been a big fight. It still is a big fight. Today you have the people who support welfare and those who oppose it.

Prabhupāda: No. We don't oppose wealth.

Banker: Welfare. Payment to people who don't work.

Prabhupāda: No, everyone should work. Our Vedic philosophy is that everyone must work. But there must be division of work. Just like in your body there are different parts. The head department, the arms department, the belly department, and the legs department. These are different parts. So all these departments must work for the total benefit of the body. That is our philosophy. Nobody should sit idle. But he must work according to his capacity. Brain must work for giving direction. Hand must work for giving protection. Belly must work for supplying food, energy. And leg must work for carrying the body. So similarly the society must be divided: the brain of the society, the arms of the society, the belly of the society and the legs of the society. That will make perfection.

So apart from that metaphysical, from this worldly platform, there must be divisions. Just like in your bank, if everyone is manager, that is not possible.
Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Metaphysics department is there. I was also a student of philosophy. That is theories only. Of course, they are trying, psychology, metaphysics, ethics. You were also a student of philosophy?

Banker: I took some courses. My major courses were in business. But I took some in philosophy, ethic, logic.

Prabhupāda: So apart from that metaphysical, from this worldly platform, there must be divisions. Just like in your bank, if everyone is manager, that is not possible. There must be clerks and other assistants. So that is required. The society must be divided into four classes. That is brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

For management, this division must be there. Otherwise it will be mismanagement. Yes. A Vaiṣṇava coming to the position of doing the work of a śūdra does not mean he has become śūdra. He's Vaiṣṇava. Try to understand this point.
Morning Walk -- March 12, 1974, Vrndavana:

Tamāla-Kṛṣṇa: In our centers we are awarding brāhmaṇa initiation, second initiation...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Initiation should go on. Even... You do not understand what I have said, that that is for Vaiṣṇava. A Vaiṣṇava and Viṣṇu... Just like Kṛṣṇa is Viṣṇu, He's not human being, but He was acting like human being, similarly, Vaiṣṇava is transcendental. But for proper management of the material world, one should be acting like brāhmaṇa, one should be acting like kṣatriya. That is required. Just like actually we are doing so. Some of you are preaching, and some of you are cleansing the temple. It does not mean that a sannyāsī who is preaching, he is better than that man who is cleansing. The... Their position as Vaiṣṇava is the same. But for the management, one is cleansing, one is seeing the construction, one is going to preach, like that. That should be there. It is not that "Because I have taken sannyāsa, therefore I cannot any more do anything." If need be, he has to act as kṣatriya. Or a śūdra. It doesn't matter.

Hṛdayānanda: Oh.

Prabhupāda: Doesn't matter. But manage, for management, this division must be there. Otherwise it will be mismanagement. Yes. A Vaiṣṇava coming to the position of doing the work of a śūdra does not mean he has become śūdra. He's Vaiṣṇava. Try to understand this point. Just like in the stage. If you want to play something, one must be king, one must be queen, one must be..., but neither of them king or queen. That is stage play. Similarly to manage things in the material world we have to... Guṇa, karma. Karma there must be. Therefore the karma should be done, executed, according to quality.

They're Vaiṣṇava. But because they have got to live in the material world, there must be division of work. If everyone wants to become the brain, who will act as leg? That is also required.
Morning Walk -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Bhagavān: ...the society would go to the gurukula, and there it would be decided what their work would be?

Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all there should be an instructor on the spiritual life, then according to his position... Our spiritual life is meant, we should always remember... But for management we have to make divisions. That is...

Devotee: Actually the whole society could be Vaiṣṇava.

Prabhupāda: Ah. They're Vaiṣṇava. But because they have got to live in the material world, there must be division of work. If everyone wants to become the brain, who will act as leg? That is also required. If everyone says, "No, no, I'm not going to do the work of leg. I want simply to work as..." No. It is needed. The brain is needed, the hand is needed, the belly is needed, the leg is needed. So that we have to divide. Who will work as brain, who will work as hand, who will work as leg... The main aim is how to maintain this body perfectly, fit. That should be the aim, how the society will go on nicely. And for management, this hand, leg, brain, belly must be divided. Just like there's slight difference, those who are directly engaged in temple worship and those who are going to sell books. Apparently there's difference, but basically there is no difference. Like that. If one can sell books nicely, why he should be, I mean to say, engaged in the temple worship? He can do better work in that way. But there is no difference between selling the books and temple worship. Or washing the dish. There's no difference, because it is all transcendental. Just like aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti. Kṛṣṇa's hands and legs, there's no difference.

There must be division. There must be division, and each division must be maintained very nicely. Then the whole society is all right.
Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: You cannot say, "I can do any kind of work." I can give you advice about spiritual life, but if you require medical advice, then you have to go to somebody else. You cannot expect medical advice from me. So this is not a fact, that everyone can do everything. No.

C. Hennis: No, no, I agree. I agree.

Prabhupāda: There must be division. There must be division, and each division must be maintained very nicely. Then the whole society is all right.

C. Hennis: That I would agree with. And my organization...

Yogeśvara: Perhaps one difference is that when we speak about the first-class, or the head division, the intellectual class, we are speaking about a class that is people who belong to that class by qualification, not simply that they have some title, that they are professor or that they are scholar. They have to be properly qualified.

C. Hennis: It's difficult to be a professor or a doctor unless you may have some type of qualification.

Yogeśvara: Well, he says it's difficult to be any kind of doctor or professor unless you are properly qualified.

Prabhupāda: No, from this point of... He is right. Unless he has got the medical degrees, unless he is educated... We also say that thing, that unless one is sufficiently educated in medical science or legal science, he cannot be said a medical man or a legal man.

In the best interest of human society there must be such divisions of life, otherwise no social institution can grow in a healthy state.
Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: That's it. You may be scientist, you may be something else, but if you try to satisfy the Supreme Lord by your occupation, that is perfection. That is perfection. Read the purport.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Human society all over the world is divided into four castes and four orders of life. The four castes are the intelligent caste, the martial caste, the productive caste and the laborer caste. These castes are classified in terms of one's work and qualification and not by birth. Then again there are four orders of life, namely the student life, the householder's life, the retired and the devotional life. In the best interest of human society there must be such divisions of life, otherwise no social institution can grow in a healthy state. And in each and every one of the abovementioned divisions of life, the aim must be to please the supreme authority of the Personality of Godhead. This institutional function of human society is known as the system of varṇāśrama-dharma, which is quite natural for the civilized life. The varṇāśrama institution is constructed to enable one to realize the Absolute Truth. It is not for artificial domination of one division over another. When the aim of life, i.e., realization of the Absolute Truth, is missed by too much attachment for indriya-prīti, or sense gratification, as already discussed hereinbefore, the institution of the varṇāśrama is utilized by selfish men to pose an artificial predominance over the weaker section. In the Kali-yuga, or in the age of quarrel, this artificial predominance is already current, but the saner section of the people know it well that the divisions of castes and orders of life are meant for smooth social intercourse and high-thinking self-realization and not for any other purpose.

Herein the statement of Bhāgavatam is that the highest aim of life or the highest perfection of the institution of the varṇāśrama-dharma is to cooperate jointly for the satisfaction of the Supreme Lord. This is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā (4.13).

Robert Gouiran: I have the impression that this translation is not very good because when you define the four states of life and you translate the two last ones by..., mainly the last one, by devotion for sannyāsin. Sannyāsin is not devotion. Sannyāsin is...

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: I'll read that again. "then again there are four orders of life, namely the student life..."

Robert Gouiran: Yes.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: "...the householder's life, the retired and the devotional life."

Robert Gouiran: Oh, yes. Another way of the fourth translation, the fourth one.

Yogeśvara: He says that the word sannyāsin should be translated as renunciation instead of devotion. The stage of renunciation, instead of...

Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of renunciation?

There must be four divisions of the society, the first-class men, the second-class men, the third-class men and the rest, fourth-class.
Room Conversation with Monsieur Mesman, Chief of Law House of Paris -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: He asks what are our political principles in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Do we have a program?

Prabhupāda: Our... We have not only political program, but we have got political, and economical, intellectual, and ordinary. We think... Just like in your body, there are four divisions: the head, the arms, the belly and the leg. So this is complete. Head is the most important division. If you cut your head, then everything finished. Therefore head must be there. Head means first-class intelligent men. And their qualification is stated... Find out, śamo damas titikṣā.

Yogeśvara: You want to translate? (French)

Prabhupāda: So there must be four divisions of the society, the first-class men, the second-class men, the third-class men and the rest, fourth-class. The first-class men should be self-restrained, control over the senses... Hmmm. Read. Yes.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Naturally there must be division because all men are not of the same quality. You cannot expect. So whatever quality he has got, utilize that.
Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is hypocrite. So why there should not be a class who is not hypocrite? All politicians saying something in the mouth and doing something else, because they are śūdra. So this is very scientific. How it not be scientific? It is spoken by God. Cātur-varnyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Required. Just like in this institution, I am guru, and if everyone becomes guru, then who will carry out the order of guru? There must be disciple also, who will carry out the order of guru. So it is not required... Just like in your body, it is not that body is made of head only, but head is required. You cannot avoid head, neither you can avoid the leg. So śūdra required, the brāhmaṇa required, the kṣatriya required, and the vaiśya required. And the society should be very nicely managed. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ. Why does He not say one varṇa, brāhmaṇa? Naturally there must be division because all men are not of the same quality. You cannot expect. So whatever quality he has got, utilize that. Aṇḍha-khañja-nyāya. Aṇḍha-khañja-nyāya. The one man is lame, and one man is blind. So both are useless. So they combine together. The lame man was taken on the shoulder of the blind man. So the lame man has no leg, but he has got eyes. He was directing, "Go this way." So both their business was perfect. Similarly, according to the quality of the work, there must be a class of men less intelligent. They cannot independently work. They must require a master. That is śūdra. And then the vaiśya, then the kṣatriya, and the upper man is brāhmaṇa. He gives the direction to the kṣatriya. He is ruler.

You said that the man will not like this kind of job. Eh? Therefore there must be division of job. That is cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). He is a śūdra. He does not want to produce his own food. If you give him some salary, then he will be satisfied.
Morning Walk -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Śrutakīrti: If everything is all right, then my preaching that is also all right.

Prabhupāda: Your preaching is all right, so, provided you preach something good. But when everything is good, then where is the, your preaching required? You preach something. Just like we are preaching. We are preaching. This is actually good for, that he must know what he is and what is the ultimate goal of life. This is required. Material preaching has no value. That is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Ei bhāla ei manda, saba manodharma: " 'This is good; this is bad,' this is all mental concoction." Actually. But real good is: "He has forgotten God. Revive his consciousness." That is real good. Then he'll saved from the so-called good and bad and everything. That is wanted. Materially, everything is one man's food, another man's poison. Therefore there is no distinction—"This is good; this is bad." The stool is very bad, bad smell for you, but it is food for the pig. This is proof—"One man's food, another's poison." So this is only mental concoction, "This is good; this is bad."

Everything is good; everything is bad—materially. The real good for him, that he has forgotten his spiritual identification; revive him to that consciousness. That is real good. Somebody brings just now bucketfuls of water, and if he proposes "I shall drench you," "No, no, no, don't you drench me." But you will find—we are going—the ducks, as soon as they..., immediately jump on the water. So whether water is good or bad? It is all relative. So don't bother about this good and bad. It is simply mental concoction. (pause) You can bring me breakfast at eight.

Devotee (1): Eight o'clock. All right.

Prabhupāda: Not so early.

Śrutakīrti: And no mango for breakfast.

Prabhupāda: No. You said that the man will not like this kind of job. Eh? Therefore there must be division of job. That is cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). He is a śūdra. He does not want to produce his own food. If you give him some salary, then he will be satisfied. And then he will work with plow also. If you give him salary, he will accept that.

For the peaceful life in human society, there must be four divisions.
Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Jayatīrtha: Samaḥ means equally disposed; sarveṣu means all; bhūteṣu means living entity. "He is equally disposed to every living entity."

Prabhupāda: So we can see on equal level when (sic:) you become a brāhmaṇa. Brahma-bhūtaḥ, not in the United Nation, passing resolution and fight is going on outside, because they have no vision, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. So the politicians should be guided by the brāhmaṇas. That is social structure. Those who are first-class men in the spiritual understanding... Or the politicians, the administrators, they should take instruction from the brāhmaṇas and take part in politics. Then they will be also first-class men. You haven't got to drag him down again. First of all elect, and drag him down. This is mistake. Just like you elected Nixon president; again you dragged him down, because there was mistake. You do not know who to elect because you are not guided by brāhmaṇas. This is the fault. The whole society is being guided by the mle..., śūdras and some portion vaiśyas. Mostly śūdras and some certain percentage, mercantile. And no kṣatriya, no brāhmaṇa. Therefore, for the peaceful life in human society, there must be four divisions. Find out this verse, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13).

Jayatīrtha: 4.13.

cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ
guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ
tasya kartāram api māṁ
viddhy akartāram avyayam
(BG 4.13)

"According to the three modes of material nature and the work ascribed to them, the four divisions of human society were created by Me. And, although I am the creator of this system, you should know that I am yet the non-doer, being unchangeable."

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa created these four division, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, but He does not belong to any one of them.

So there must be division like this. The brāhmaṇas should guide the kṣatriyas, and the kṣatriyas will administer the state, and the vaiśyas will produce foodstuff, and śūdras will help. Cooperation for common benefit. But the aim is spiritual realization. That is perfect society.
Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa created these four division, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, but He does not belong to any one of them. He is neither brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśya nor śūdra. He is transcendental. Similarly, our philosophy—just to make the human society very peaceful and making progress we wish to establish this system. A first-class man, group of men, brāhmaṇas, they will guide the kṣatriyas, and the kṣatriyas, the administrators, they will guide the vaiśya. Vaiśya means agriculture and cow protection and trade. And śūdra means those who are neither brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśyas. They are simply worker, assistant. So there must be division like this. The brāhmaṇas should guide the kṣatriyas, and the kṣatriyas will administer the state, and the vaiśyas will produce foodstuff, and śūdras will help. Cooperation for common benefit. But the aim is spiritual realization. That is perfect society. If everyone is śūdra, without any aim of life, then there will be chaos. Just like in your country, in spite of so much facility for education, the students are produced hippies, useless for all purposes. Why? I have gone to so many universities. I have seen the students, hippies. And if you say that "If you act like cats and dogs, you will become dog next life," they say, "What is the wrong if I become a dog?" (laughter) This is education. He is prepared to become a dog. He does not know what is the distinction between dog and human being. He is seeking after the dog's facility that he can have sex on the street. He is thinking the dog life is advantageous. This is the position. Therefore Professor Judah has written me this letter, that "I am simply surprised how you have converted the drug-addicted hippies into servant of Kṛṣṇa and the humanity." This is his words.

Four divisions must be there: a group of men, first-class; a group of men, administrators; a group of men, food producer; and a group of men, general worker. So the brain is the chief.
Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Mrs. Wax: The four natural divisions... I understand that at Vṛndāvana, that that will be an example to American society, but how can the four natural divisions of man be translated into American society?

Prabhupāda: It has to be. If you don't, then you must suffer with all these criminals. That is natural. Just like in your body there is head, and there is arm, and there is belly, and there is leg. The head is the most important part. Why? Why not all legs? Why there are different divisions? Similarly, in the human society, if we want to make it perfect, there must be head, there must be arm, there must be belly, there must be legs. So leg can walk, but leg cannot do the work of brain. So at the present moment we have got all walking men, no brain. Therefore the society is in chaotic condition. There is no brain in the society. That is the defect of modern civilization. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). According to quality and work, there are four divisions. (aside:) You can push it back. Four divisions. So similarly, four divisions must be there: a group of men, first-class; a group of men, administrators; a group of men, food producer; and a group of men, general worker. So the brain is the chief. If your body... There are other parts, but if your head is cut off, then what is the use of other parts? If your hand is cut off, you can live. If your leg is cut off, you can live. But if your head is cut off, then finished. So that is lacking in the present society, no brain how to guide, so that whole human... If the brain is there, then it can guide. It can ask the hand to work in a certain way, the leg to work in certain way, to eat in a certain way. Then the health of the whole body will be quite competent. But if there is no brain, then everything... Just like a man becomes mad when the brain is not working.

The human society should be divided into four classes according to quality. Not everyone is on the same level. So for, even for material purposes there must be four divisions: first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class.
Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Woman reporter: When you came to Chicago last week you said you were going to tell us some of the solutions to our problems in this country. Can you tell me what some of those solutions are?

Prabhupāda: Solution not only of your country or our country, it is the solution for the whole human society. I told that as there are different divisions in the same body, the head, the arms, the belly, and the leg... Although the body is one, but there are different parts for different function. Then the body is going nicely. The head is the most important part of the body. So if the head is not in order, then, in spite of presentation of other parts of the body, hands, leg, the body is useless. Just like a madman. Madman, this brain is not in order. Therefore despite the presentation of the hands, legs, and other things, it is useless. Similarly, the human society should be divided into four classes according to quality. Not everyone is on the same level. So for, even for material purposes there must be four divisions: first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class, means... The definition of the first-class, find out. This is the definition of the first-class man.

These divisions must be there. Then the society will go on very nicely.
Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: That is fourth-class. First of all, third-class.

Nitāi: Third-class: "Farming, cattle raising and business are the qualities of work for the vaiśyas,..."

Prabhupāda: Not cattle raising, cow protection.

Nitāi: Cow protection.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Farming and cow protection and trade, this is meant for the third-class division. And worker, fourth-class. These divisions must be there. Then the society will go on very nicely. Exactly the same example, that if the different parts of the body—the brain, the arms, the belly and the legs—all are in order, the bodily function will go on very nicely. This is natural.

Those divisions are required. Not that everyone is all. No, there must be division of labor.
Room Conversation -- July 31, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: There are four division of your body—the head division, the arm division, the belly division, the leg division. If you engage the head for walking, that is mistake, and if you engage the leg for thinking, that is mistake. Similarly, there are different types of men, combine together, and it will be nice body, the leg will walk, the hand will protect, the head will give instruction, and the belly will get energy by eating food. Those divisions are required. Not that everyone is all. No, there must be division of labor. So that is described, how to make civilization perfect, who is going to hear and take it. Cātur varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). If you can adjust things, you can utilize things, then everything will be useful. And if you do not know how to utilize things, then everything will be useless. Take instruction from Bhagavad-gītā and make everything useful. Then the human society will be perfect. Otherwise you'll go on manufacturing ideas, you'll never be successful. Because nature's law is working, you cannot interfere with the nature's law. That is not possible. You may think yourself very much advanced in science, but nature's law, you cannot interfere. Just like now there is movement, man and woman, equal.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

You must have some means of livelihood. Keep your body and soul together. So according to quality, guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), there must be division and then simple life. The real aim is tam abhyarcya, how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Devotee (2): Which way is India headed towards? The capitalists or the Communists?

Prabhupāda: India has no, had no such ideas. They are borrowing ideas. India's idea is self-realization. Live very simple life—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. The brāhmaṇas, they are living simple life, becoming very learned scholar, pure character, advanced in spiritual life—one class, ideal. And kṣatriyas, they are supposed to be the king. They distribute the land on nominal taxation, and the vaiśyas utilize the land for cultivation and cow-keeping, and the śūdras, they are engaged as weaver, blacksmith, goldsmith, mean other necessities of life. In this way the whole society is simplified, and the central point is how to become advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness by cooperation. This is India's civilization. There is no question of industry. Ugra-karma. It has been condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā as ugra-karma, laboring very hard for livelihood. This industry means engage the poor worker class to work very hard, and there is huge profit, and some directors of the capitalists, they take it. And they have one dozen motorcars, palatial building, no work, simply wine and woman, that's all. This is going on. And the others, they are seeing: "There is no classification, neither real brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśya. So he is enjoying like that. He has got so many cars. He has got such a nice apartment. Why not me?" There is struggle. This is actual picture. Our Vedic advice is that make life very simple. You must have some means of livelihood. Keep your body and soul together. So according to quality, guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), there must be division and then simple life. The real aim is tam abhyarcya, how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Everyone is.... Brāhmaṇa is guiding, kṣatriya is ruling, and vaiśya is producing food, and śūdra, they have no brain; they are helping. In this way the society is very peaceful, and everyone is advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is India's civilization. Now, due to this association of the rākṣasas... Even up to Mohammedan time this civilization was being continued. Mohammedan did not touch the Indian culture. Sometimes by, what is called, fanaticism, there was fight. Not like this. The Arjuna.... Aurangzeb began this. Otherwise, from, what is called, the first emperor? Akbar. Akbar, Jahanghri, then Shajahan, there was no trouble. They did not touch. Even there was some marriage connection. They want to remain as kṣatriya king, that's all. The other things were not interfered. So instead of a Hindu kṣatriya, the Musselman kṣatriya. People were satisfied: "A kṣatriya... We have to work. Somebody must be king." So in this way the Indian people accepted the Britishers. "All right, you remain king. Don't interfere." But later on, to exploit the whole country, they began to plan.

There must be social division not by birth, but by education. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). That we have lost.
Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The next question, Śrīla Prabhupāda, fifteen. "Hinduism has been defined as a way of life."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Actually it is the way. That, I have already described it. It is not a sectarianism like Muslimism, Christianism or "Thisism..." Hinduism also now one of them. Actually, it is a way of life, varṇāśrama-dharma, how to become elevated to the spiritual platform. So that begins by the varṇāśrama-dharma, to select persons according to his capacity to different varṇas. Some of them selected, trained as brāhmaṇas. Some of them trained as kṣatriya, some of them as vaiśya, some of them as, remain... Those who cannot take any training, they are śūdras. So in the ways (indistinct) there must be social division not by birth, but by education. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). That we have lost. The so-called Hinduism they have lost. And because they did not follow real varṇāśrama-dharma, therefore India, so many renegades, Muslim became... Once they become Muslim, there was no reformation. But according to Vedic principle, even one is fallen, he can be raised to the highest standard. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). One may... Saṁskārād bhaved dvija.

By nature these divisions are there. Varṇa, four varṇas and four āśramas. Four varṇas means social divisions, and four āśrama, spiritual division. So apart from spiritual division, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa, the social division must be observed.
Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Indian (1): Please permit...

Prabhupāda: Your question is?

Indian (1): Yes, varṇāśrama, I wanted to, Swamiji...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Varṇāśramācāra-vatā. The varṇa and āśrama I've already explained. Just like for maintenance of the whole body there are different parts: the brain, the arm, the belly, and the leg. Similarly, varṇāśrama means the head—brāhmaṇa; the arms—kṣatriya; the belly—vaiśya; and the leg—śūdra. So by nature these divisions are there. Varṇa, four varṇas and four āśramas. Four varṇas means social divisions, and four āśrama, spiritual division. So apart from spiritual division, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa, the social division must be observed. The brain must be there. Brāhmaṇa. Everything must be there. Not only the brain. The arms also required—military department or kṣatriya department. Yuddhe cāpy apalayanam(?). The kṣatriyas are so brave, they don't go away from fighting field, battlefield. Just like Arjuna was trying to become nonviolent. Immediately Kṛṣṇa chastised him, kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam anārya-juṣṭam akīrti-karam. So everything is required. It is not that everyone should become brāhmaṇa. Neither it is possible that everyone should be able to become brāhmaṇa. It is not so easy thing. But a class of brāhmaṇa must be maintained. A class of brāhmaṇa must be there as ideal to consult with them. Similarly, a class of kṣatriya must be there, a class of vaiśya must be there. This is called varṇāśrama. For the peaceful execution of material life these things are required, division. Just like in your government you have got some different ministerial department. You have introduced, this minister is for this department, this minister... Similarly, the brain department must be there. Without brain, even... Suppose a madman, he has got his hands and legs, but it is useless because the brain is lost. So brain must be there. So this varṇāśrama, revival of varṇāśrama is required. A class of men, brāhmaṇa—sattva śamo damas titikṣā ārjavaṁ jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). As there are different educational system, there must be an educational institute where these things are taught: how to become truthful, how to become self-controlled, how to become full in knowledge, how to become full believer in the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Āstikyam.

There must be division. Don't put horse before a cart.
Room Conversation About Gurukula -- November 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You cannot expect that everyone is brāhmaṇa. No. He has got śūdra mentality, so let him till the ground for Kṛṣṇa. Svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya. He is fit for tilling so let him till and produce grain for Kṛṣṇa.

Jagadīśa: Hyderabad?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hard work. He should be given hard work. This gurukula is for high, high class brāhmaṇa, kṣatriyas, not for the vaiśyas and śūdras. (man laughs in background) No, everyone is required for Kṛṣṇa's service, but there... That I was describing today. There must be division. Don't put horse before a cart.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

According to the quality and work there must be division for cooperation. There is a big scheme. They have lost. They do not know.
Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: But at least if there is extreme exploitation by a king or dictator it can't be changed. But the people...

Prabhupāda: There cannot be exploitation if things are made in order. Just like kṣatriya should be trained up as kṣatriya. Then he is king. Not that a bhangi by vote becomes a king. This is education.

śauryaṁ tejo dhṛtir dākṣyaṁ
yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam
dānam īśvara-bhāvaś ca
kṣātraṁ karma svabhāva-jam
(BG 18.43)

He must be very powerful, very strong, strongly built. You have seen the picture, Rāmacandra? Sturdy body. You see. Lakṣmaṇa. Because kṣatriya. They should be trained up as kṣatriya. Therefore the varṇāśrama college is required to train people who is able to become a brāhmaṇa, who is able to become a kṣatriya, who is able to become... In this way division must be. And according to the quality and work there must be division for cooperation. There is a big scheme. They have lost. They do not know. All bhangis, camara, śūdras, they are simply given vote. That's all. Where is the training?

There must be four divisions, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, everything. Everything is lost.
Morning Talk -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: One gentleman came: "Sir, you are..." So he might be one of the hanging passengers.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) That was funny. When you said that, the Chief Minister was laughing. At that point he was smiling. Everyone in that crowd was thinking, "Yes. He's talking about me."

Prabhupāda: Is that civilization? Human being should be calm and quiet, peaceful and advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There must be four divisions, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, everything. Everything is lost. From the very morning, "Where is bread? Where is bread?" We have no fixed income, but we are so pure(?). We are maintaining big establishment. Who has got so big establishment? And what is our asset? Asset is only Kṛṣṇa. For ordinary karmīs to maintain such house and such big establishment...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not possible. No one can do it.

Prabhupāda: He'll have insomnia, cannot sleep at night. What would have been the cost of the establishment? So many men are working.

There must be division—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya—not that all one class. That is all wrong.
Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think it's going to have much consequence. If they want to give us the land, they'll give it. It's not that...

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Regarding that land, if they want to give it, they'll give it. It's not that somebody's going to come, like Mr. Arora, and by his coming suddenly they're going to give us the land. It's a big political matter. It's not friendship. We just have to become very much prepared now for such occurrences. Those gurukula boys, as they grow up, they should be trained to protect Māyāpura.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say kṣatriya. Some of our men should be trained as kṣatriya.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is required.

Prabhupāda: Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). There must be division—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya—not that all one class. That is all wrong.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Some people are inclined in that way. Guṇa-karma.

Prabhupāda: But everyone can be utilized if you organize it rightly. Three hundred dacoits there means government is very weak.

Correspondence

1974 Correspondence

All have the right to chant the Hare Krishna Mantra and by such devotional service everyone will be elevated to the transcendental platform. But there must be a division according to quality and work.
Letter to Tarun Kanti Ghosh Babu -- New Delhi 11 March, 1974:

So bhakti is such a nice think. Bhakti is transcendental. When one is situated in bhakti life his mission of life is successful. That is called "ceto darpana marjanam bhava maha davagni nirvapanam (CC Antya 20.12)." Everyone of us is suffering from the three fold miseries of material existence. Coming to the platform of bhakti, pure devotional service, one immediately ceases the blazing fire of material existence. That is the effect of Sri Krishna Sankirtana. The whole world is in chaotic condition without understanding this philosophy.

In the material life there must be division of activities. That is accepted in the Bhagavad gita as

catur varnyam maya srstam
guna karma vibhagasah
tasya kartaram api mam
viddhy akartaram avyayam
(BG 4.13)

So in the beginning if we start a varnasrama college to teach internationally students from all over the world to learn to be educated as brahmanas, as Ksatriyas, as vaisyas, as sudras, by quality and work, that will be the basic principle of Krishna Consciousness. It is the duty of the government to see that everyone is employed. This is only possible when varnasrama is established. At the present moment everyone is sudra. This is not very good for the human society. Everyone has a right to approach the Supreme Personality of Godhead but there must be a process for keeping the society in order. The intelligent class of men or the brahmanas, the martial class of men, the ksatriyas, the productive class of men, the vaisyas, and the working class of men, the sudras, all have the right to chant the Hare Krishna Mantra and by such devotional service everyone will be elevated to the transcendental platform. But there must be a division according to quality and work. At the present moment, so many so-called educated persons are unemployed because the division of work is neglected. If this division of society is maintained no one will be unemployed and there will be no unrest in society. It is a very scientific way of keeping peace in the world.

The Supreme Personality of Godhead orders that there must be four division in human society, a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th class, like that, and the 1st must be ideal.
Letter to Rupanuga -- Tirupati 28 April, 1974:

Our students who are making this political program must be fixed in one point that human society unless divided into the four classes and divisions is animal society. Among the animals there is no intelligence for self realization or how to make life successful. In human life intelligence is better than animals therefore they should know what is the aim of life and to educate human society there is the whole Vedic literature, of which the Bhagavad gita is the quintessence. The Supreme Personality of Godhead orders that there must be four division in human society, a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th class, like that, and the 1st must be ideal. If the whole society is full of rogues, thieves, drunkards, cheaters and demons, where is there question of decent government. There must be division so the lower class men may aspire to be second class men. So far we are concerned we are trying to train first class men. How much great responsibility we have to follow regulative principles, chant the beads, live with personal character etc. Regulative principles means to especially execute devotional service in terms of the revealed scriptures under the direction of the spiritual master. By fulfilling the regulative principles you come to the platform of spontaneous love for Krsna. Spontaneous love for Krsna is there already but is covered by the influence of Maya. The regulative principles are a device how to overcome the influence of maya and come to the platform of spontaneous love of Krsna. If we want to exist as first class men in society all our students must be induced to following the regulative principles. One shouldn't think artificially he has come to the spontaneous platform. That is sahajiyaism.

Page Title:There must be division
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Matea
Created:05 of Nov, 2008
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=4, CC=1, OB=0, Lec=29, Con=31, Let=2
No. of Quotes:67