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There is no soul (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No. The thing is these western churches, just like Christianity, these gospels were spoken long, long ago to the primitive men, you see? Jerusalem. These people were living in desert, and they were not so much advanced. So at that time... Of course, in Bible or in the Old Testament, the idea of God is there, that is all nice. But they... Just like the statement, "God created this world." That is a fact. Now those people who are not advanced in those... Now, at the present moment, people are advanced scientifically. They want to know how the creation has taken place. You see? That explanation is not there, neither the church can give them. You see. Therefore they are not satisfied. Simply officially going to the church and offering prayer, that does not appeal to them. Besides that, practically, they do not follow religious principles. Just like in the Old Testament, there is, I mean to say, Ten Commandments, and there is Commandment that "Thou shall not kill." But killing affair is very prominent in the Christian world. They are maintaining slaughterhouse very regularly, and they have manufactured a theory that animals have no soul, they do not feel—because they have to kill. "Give the dog a bad name and hang it." Why animal cannot feel? Why you are committing these sinful activities? So the priestly class, they will not also say, they will not discuss, everyone is silent. That means deliberately, I mean to say, disobeying Ten Commandments. So where is religious principle? If you don't obey the commandments of your scripture does it mean that you are following a religion nicely? How you can kill which you cannot create? And it is plainly stated there, "Thou shall not kill." What is the answer? Why they are killing? What is the answer? How do you answer it?

Journalist: Are you asking me?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) And a physician which says, "Oh, you cannot do this, you cannot do this, you cannot eat this," it is a botheration. So they want something. That is a fact. But at the same time, they want it very cheap. Therefore the cheaters come and cheat them. They take the opportunity. "These people want to be cheated. Oh let us take the advantage." You see. Otherwise, they are advising that "You are God, everyone is God. You just realize yourself, you have forgotten. You take this mantra, and you become God, and you become powerful. Whatever you like, you can control. And there is no control of senses. You can drink, you can have unrestricted sex life and whatever you like." People like this. "Oh, simply by fifteen minutes meditation, I shall become God, and I have to pay only thirty-five dollars." So many millions of people will be ready, "Oh, let me." I mean, thirty-five dollars in your country is not... But that much, thirty-five multiplied by million, it becomes thirty-five million dollars. (laughs) And we are crying here because we cannot bluff. We say that if you actually want, you have to follow these restrictions. We cannot allow you that the commandment is "You shall not kill," and I shall say, "Yes, you can kill. The animal has no feeling. The animal has no soul." We cannot bluff in this way. You see.

Journalist: Well that's just about it, that I wanted to know. It's a shame that this kind of thing, as I say, has turned off an awful lot of kids, a lot of very disenchanted young people because...

Prabhupāda: So please try to help us. This movement is very nice. It will help the humanity. It will help your country, the whole human society. It is a genuine movement, there is nothing bluff, nothing cheating. It is authorized. So I'll request you because...

Journalist: Authorized by whom?

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- May 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Development.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: When a person becomes very old, he should be very intelligent.

Prabhupāda: No no. It is a question of consciousness of the body. That does not mean when a dog becomes very old he becomes very experienced. No. Consciousness according to the body. The same theory. Because a child's body is not developed, the consciousness is also not developed. Hare Kṛṣṇa. And these rascals say that because the consciousness is not developed, he has no soul. Soul is there even within the tree. But because the consciousness is not developed, the sensation is less.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But still the consciousness in a particular species is developing.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere is developing consciousness. And the topmost development is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But the modern science, they say when one becomes old, the memory becomes short and then they tend to...

Prabhupāda: Yes. The body has changed. Therefore you have to accept that body has changed. Therefore next conclusion is when this body is lost he gets another body. Change of body. Seasonal changes. That one verse in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Dehāntara-prāptiḥ, acceptance of another body. Then these modern scientists, they do not know this. They sometimes explain medical science, that blood corpuscles are changing, do they not?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There are sometimes white, they say, suppose when I am injured, my external something hurts. They say the white blood corpuscles are responsible to protect the body. But when the white blood corpuscles is not enough, then infection normally occurs.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Umāpati: Well, the argument that has been presented is that "Well we don't have it now, but soon we're to have it. So..."

Prabhupāda: That any rascal will say. What is the difference between you and the rascal? Any rascal will say, that "I am trying to..." What is the use of these scientists? Any rascal will say. Trust no future, however pleasant. You can talk of all pleasant things in future, but you don't trust it. You as you don't trust, because you do not see soul, you don't trust. Why shall I trust you, you rascal, that in future you shall be very great scientist? You do not trust because you do not see. There is no soul. You cannot see. So why shall I trust you? What is the answer? That in future you will be able to do something extraordinary. Why shall I trust you?

Umāpati: Give them a lot of credit.

Karandhara: Well they say they have done so much in the past, they have accomplished so much in the past.

Prabhupāda: That is all useless. What you have done? You have not given any contribution that there will be no death. The death is there. In the past there was death, and people are dying now. What you have done?

Paramahaṁsa: Helped death.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Paramahaṁsa: Generally there are now something like 451 different translations. Just like the Gītā. They interpret in so many ways.

Prabhupāda: No Gītā, or... Many translations, but the original Gītā is perfect.

Paramahaṁsa: Yeah. Well they are not even sure that the Bible is (tape is very distorted) As a matter of fact it's a known fact that so many of the excerpts from Christ's disciples were, how you say, censored. There were parts taken out.

Prabhupāda: Some Bible authorities say that there is no soul of the animal. St. Joseph or something.

Devotee: St. Thomas.

Karandhara:. That was St. Augustine.

Prabhupāda: Just see. How great fool he was. And he's a saint. You see.

Kṛṣṇa-kāntī: Well the real in his book (tape distortions)

Prabhupāda: Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: One life is the food of another.

Prabhupāda: Another. That is not the question. That is also science. And this is also science that every living entity has got... (distortions) You eat. That I have already said, but why do you say something which is not fact?

Devotee: They say what is the difference between an animal and a plant?

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just see. How great fool he was. And he's a saint. You see.

Kṛṣṇa-kāntī: Well the real in his book (tape distortions)

Prabhupāda: Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: One life is the food of another.

Prabhupāda: Another. That is not the question. That is also science. And this is also science that every living entity has got... (distortions) You eat. That I have already said, but why do you say something which is not fact?

Devotee: They say what is the difference between an animal and a plant?

Prabhupāda: Maybe different (distortion) difference between you and me. That difference you'll find amongst ourselves. We are all different. But that does not mean I have no soul. Any one of us has soul. (distortions till end of tape)

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Prabhupāda: It can be measured?

Krishna Tiwari: Yes.

Prabhupāda: It can be measured; otherwise how it is said?

Krishna Tiwari: Very easily measured.

Prabhupāda: Ah! It can be measured, but they say there is no soul.

Krishna Tiwari: Scientists say there's no soul?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: Because they don't know how to look for it.

Prabhupāda: Therefore, how they'll measure? That way it is impossible for them to measure.

Devotee: They can't find it.

Prabhupāda: They cannot find it.

Krishna Tiwari: But nobody else has.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Krishna Tiwari: Nobody else has found it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We, I said, this is the measurement.

Car Conversation after meeting with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: I am a human being. You accept that I have got soul. By what symptoms you accept that I have got soul? First of all you have to ascertain that. What is the symptom that we agree that I am human being. I have got, I am a soul. By what characteristic, analytical study, you accept that I have got soul, and the dog has not got soul? What are the different characteristics? First of all, we have to enumerate that thing. If we find in the characteristics, then we can say there is no soul. But if we see that both the animal and the human being have the same characteristics of living condition, then how you can say the animal has not soul?

Yogeśvara: His point was that the animals don't show the same symptoms. They don't think as...

Prabhupāda: Why not, why not? The general symptom is animal eats, you eat, animal sleeps, you sleep, animal has sex, you have got sex, animal also defends, you also defend. Where is the difference?

Yogeśvara: His point was that human beings, they think on higher platforms than animals do.

Car Conversation after meeting with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Yogeśvara: Then his point was that we find God's creatures, many of them, not just human beings, but it's a symptom of life everywhere that meat-eating is allowed. There are many creations, he said, many species...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Eating, that is another thing. First of all, if the, point is that you say that the animals have no soul. So what is the special point that you are speaking of the animals having no soul? You eat meat, or I eat rice, that doesn't matter, but eating is there. That is the common thing. You cannot say the animal does not eat or man does not eat. Only animal eats. No. Everyone eats. First of all, you enunciate: how do you say that the human being has got soul and the animal has not soul? What are the special symptoms?

Yogeśvara: His, his point was that only in humans do we find a metaphysical search for the meaning of life.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yogeśvara: And that's the only difference.

Car Conversation after meeting with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: The metaphysical search... Now metaphysically search out why do you deny soul in the human being, uh, in the animals? That is metaphysical. It is metaphysical question. What is your metaphysical study about the living, uh, animals that you say there is no soul? Come to the metaphysical then. You are thinking metaphysically. That's all right. But if you are still thinking like animal, then what is the use of your metaphysical studies? If you are thinking like the animals: "Where shall I get my food? Where shall I take shelter? Where shall I have sexual facility? How shall I defend?" If you are thinking like that, this is animal thinking. Metaphysical thinking means beyond this, beyond this thinking of eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That is metaphysical thinking. So what you are thinking beyond that? That is God consciousness. When a human being thinks about God, that is metaphysical. When he thinks like animals about eating, sleeping, mating and defending, that is not metaphysical. Metaphysical. What do you mean by metaphysical? How to define? What is the meaning of "meta"? Above physical. That means spiritual. So if you think spiritually, then you'll see. Just like Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa claims: sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). "In all forms of life, the living entities are there, and they are My sons." So this is metaphysical, or if some third-class man says that there is no soul in the animal, that is metaphysical? Which one is metaphysical? Kṛṣṇa speaking will be metaphysical, or a third-class fool's statement will be taken as metaphysical? Which one is metaphysical? First of all say me.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Guest (1): You mean the subtle body or the soul, the same thing?

Prabhupāda: No, soul is different. Soul is different. Soul is finer than intelligence. These things are explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.

indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur
indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ
manasas tu parā buddhir
yo buddheḥ paratas tu saḥ
(BG 3.42)

First of all, gross understanding. This body means the senses. Indriyāṇi. Those who are animals, they are thinking this is all. But they do not understand that these indriyas are being controlled by the mind. If one's mind is, what is called, distorted, then the indriyas cannot work. That is madman. You try to cure the mental disease just to bring him in proper position to control the senses. Otherwise, he does not know how to control the senses. Therefore the controller of the senses is the mind. And above the mind there is intelligence. And above the intelligence there is soul. So we cannot see even the mind, intelligence and ego. And how we can see the soul? The soul has got his magnitude. And without understanding, without education about the soul, about the spirit soul, any other understanding, that is animal understanding. (pause) Give him prasāda.

Guest (4) (English woman): Could I ask please, if prāṇa is the life force, isn't it? Is it the prāṇa is the life force, isn't it?

Pradyumna: Says like prāṇa is the life force.

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So nobody's now actually... This Christian world, they do not care for any pope. Hm. What do you think? And what is this pope? He's simply a post. He has no knowledge. Otherwise how he can tolerate? People are going against Bible. But the Pope does not understand that the in the Bible clearly it is said, "Thou shalt not kill." If he does not understand the simple truth then how he can become the head of his... So what is interpretation of the pope?

Acyutānanda: Yes, they say that animals have no soul.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Such rascals, they are leaders. How much imperfect that institution is. But if you say, then they will be angry.

Acyutānanda: Yes, one girl, she is Hindu, but she is studying in a convent. And they were catching butterflies in the garden. So the head sister said, "No, don't harm them because they are God's creatures." So she said, "Well, why do you eat meat?" So the sister left, but she failed her. She failed her in her classes. She gave her a failing grade, because she spoke back to her.

Kīrtanānanda: It means they have no philosophy.

Prabhupāda: No philosophy. No authority, no philosophy.

Kīrtanānanda: If they say, "One living entity has soul and another living entity doesn't," what is the difference? What is the principle of movement, they don't know.

Prabhupāda: What is that idea? I do not follow.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Spiritual spark is not carried by, but he resides within the body. He is carried by his own karma, subtle, subtle desire is carried. Everyone is carried by his desire. Why did I come here, in America? I have got a desire to preach; therefore I've come. Otherwise I had no business to come here. So desire. So desire carries you. That is, the rascals, they do not know. Desire is there, they cannot see, but desire is there. Mind is there, intelligence is there; they cannot see. That is carried. The example is given, just like the aroma of a flower is being carried by the air. And nobody can see, but one can feel, "Oh, it is very good, nice aroma. Wherefrom it is coming?" But he has no eyes to see either the aroma or the air. Similarly, the soul after destruction of this body is being carried by the desire, but they have no eyes to see what is that desire, what is that soul, what is that intelligence. They are saying, "There is no soul." This is mostly stupidity.

Hṛdayānanda: So...

Prabhupāda: Simply stupids.

Hṛdayānanda: So if someone is Kṛṣṇa conscious, then nothing can be hidden from him.

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Hṛdayānanda: If someone is Kṛṣṇa conscious, then...

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Karandhara: They say, "That does not include animals."

Prabhupāda: Why? Why they say?

Karandhara: The animals have no soul.

Prabhupāda: Why they say? This is rascaldom. Therefore they are rascals. They do not know.

Sudāmā: But they say, "We are more superior than the animals. So therefore the animal's business is just to give us food."

Prabhupāda: That, then, then, the superior nation can kill inferior nation. Why you have made the United Nations?

Karandhara: It just encourage animalism, animal dominance.

Prabhupāda: Animalism. That is... Then it becomes "Might is right," not "Right is might."

Umāpati: In the Bible, Prabhupāda, there is a statement that many people follow, saying that, where Jehovah says, "Man shall have dominion over the animals, over the fishes and..."

Prabhupāda: That is already there. But that does not mean man should kill them.

Prof. Wolfe: And Jesus did not reverse it.

Hṛdayānanda: Just like a man has dominion over his children.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Girirāja: Well, it would be inhuman.

Prabhupāda: Inhuman. And then cutting throat of the cows, that is not human. Is that very good reasoning?

Devotee: They don't think that the cows have souls, many of them.

Prabhupāda: That is their rascaldom. Rascals. Why no soul? What is the symptom of having soul?

Devotee: Consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So they have no consciousness? Then children? They treat like animals. They have no soul? Then better send all the children to the slaughterhouse. Their, children's flesh is very sweet and palatable.

Devotee: They made a movie like that, Śrīla Prabhupāda, about people... They give up their lives and they are sent to this place where they are mashed up and made into meat, and the people eat them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They do that in many hotels. They, it was in India done. The childcatcher? What is called?

Girirāja: Kidnapper.

Prabhupāda: Kidnappers. They kidnap and they slaughter, and mix with other meat. It becomes very tasteful. In hotel, one body found a finger of a child. In Kanpur.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 7, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. Rational or not rational...

Bali Mardana: No, to rationalize their meat-eating, they say...

Prabhupāda: Yes, to support, yes, their sinful activities.

Bali Mardana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: How you can say there is no soul in the animals? What is the reason? What is their reason?

Satsvarūpa: At one interview a person said to you, "They do not understand metaphysics, and the human being understands metaphysics."

Prabhupāda: Metaphysics. A child also does not understand. So therefore he has no soul? Cut him? They are doing that. They are doing that, so rascal. So do everyone understand metaphysics.

Karandhara: No.

Satsvarūpa: They should not be killed if they don't understand.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Satsvarūpa: They should not be killed just if they don't understand.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Is that any reason?

Morning Walk -- January 7, 1974, Los Angeles:

Devotee: Actually, they have no philosophical basis for that belief that the animal has no soul. It's just speculation. Yes.

Prabhupāda: No philosophy. Simply rascaldom. Simply rascaldom. And that is being preached by the priestly class. Priestly class. Just see the society! What third-class society! (pause) (break) ...the soul enters after the birth of the child. Eh? Is it not? Therefore killing or abortion is not bad.

Devotee: Oh, they say that abortion isn't bad because the child is not fully formed and therefore is not really a life. It's not really alive.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Therefore one man who is sleeping, he has no soul.

Bali Mardana: No one... They do not believe that generally.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bali Mardana: They admit that they are killing.

Prabhupāda: They admit?

Bali Mardana: That they are killing the child. But they do not care. 'Cause they don't want to take the trouble to raise it.

Gurukṛpā: Just like the rabbit.

Prabhupāda: Rabbit philosophy. So therefore, considering from all points of view, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the best in the world. There is no doubt. You must be convinced about it. Otherwise, how you can preach?

Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No soul, no God. Our Kṛṣṇa philosophy is God, soul, and Vedānta philosophy, that is also God. So Buddha philosophy different from Vedānta philosophy and Kṛṣṇa philosophy.

Guest: The approach is different, yes.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Guest: The approach is different.

Prabhupāda: Approach? The end is different. Now how you'll adjust Buddha philosophy and Kṛṣṇa philosophy?

Guest: There's a few, uh, paradoxes I..., but uh, anyway, I asked the same key question to uh, to my, uh, Tibetan teacher, and, uh, because he was, he was putting down everybody else and calling everybody else except his philosophy heretics. So then I asked him, I said, "Now this experience that all those different people say that they have achieved, you know," I says, uh, "is it substantially different or not?"

Prabhupāda: Achieved?

Guest: Achieved. You know-attained.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh, Venice.

Italian Man (1): Yes. So it would be so fantastic to present them a platform of religion so...

Prabhupāda: It is not religion. Of course it is religion. But the religion, as it is misunderstood in European countries that religion is a kind of faith, but it is not like that. It is science. It is fact. Religion, you have got some faith. That may not be right. It may be wrong. Just like the Christian religion, they have got faith in this way, that animal has no soul. Do you know that?

Italian Man (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: That's not a fact. Do you agree or not?

Italian Man (1): I do.

Prabhupāda: Animal also has soul.

Italian Man (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: Why do they disagree, that animal has no soul? What is the point? Why do they say?

Italian Man (1): Because they don't like to identify themselves with animals. Because if they admit that animals have a soul, then they have to identity, means they are afraid of identifying with animals. They feel they are superior to animals. We are superior to animals, indeed, but...

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why do they disagree, that animal has no soul? What is the point? Why do they say?

Italian Man (1): Because they don't like to identify themselves with animals. Because if they admit that animals have a soul, then they have to identity, means they are afraid of identifying with animals. They feel they are superior to animals. We are superior to animals, indeed, but...

Prabhupāda: That is by intelligence. We are superior to animals by superior intelligence, not by... Just like a human child. His father is superior than the child because the father has got superior intelligence, not that the child has no soul. The child talks so many nonsense things, but we take it, "After all, it is child." Nobody cares whether it is symmetrical or not, because his intelligence is not developed. So even the animals have no developed intelligence, that does not mean it has no soul. Yes. The evolution of different types of body means evolution of intelligence. Just like a flower, in the bud stage, the flower is there. But the fragrance or the beauty has not yet developed. So unless the things are there, how it can develop? Similarly, the soul is there in every living entity, but according to the development of the body, evolution of the body, the intelligence becomes manifest. Otherwise, what is the meaning of education? Education means to develop the intelligence. That is education.

Italian Man (1): Are you thinking of formal education now?

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: More cows. Yes. They'll have more cows. Simply we request that "Don't..." You propagate this. "Don't kill, don't maintain the slaughterhouse." It's very sinful. It has got very awkward reaction on the society. Stop this slaughterhouse. We don't say that you stop eating meat. You eat meat, but don't take it from slaughterhouse. Or don't by killing. Simply wait, and you'll get the... How long the cow will live? Their maximum age is twenty years. So not that you have to wait for twenty years. There are many cows, eighteen years, sixteen years or ten years. So wait for that much time. Then you regularly get dead cows and eat. What is the wrong? You make this propaganda. You may, for few years, may not get. By that time, you can eat some dogs and cats. (laughter) Yes. The Koreans, they are using dogs. Where is the difference between you and the Korean? You can eat also dogs for the time being. Or hogs. You eat hogs. We don't prohibit killing of these small animals. We don't sanction, neither prohibit. But especially we request cow protection because it is ordered by Kṛṣṇa. Because we are Kṛṣṇa conscious people, therefore we have to carry out the order of Kṛṣṇa, go-rakṣya. That is our duty. And economically also, it is very useful. Kṛṣṇa has recommended for nothing, it is not like that. It has some meaning, that if you have got cows. You see. They're... Our cows in New Vrindaban, they're giving more milk than other cows. Because they are confident that they'll not be killed here. They have got sense. Not like that rascal, "They have no soul. They have no sense." They have got sense. In other places, they do not give so much milk. But in New Vrindaban, they're so jolly, as soon as Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja calls, they'll come. Yes, just like friends. And they are confident that "We'll not be killed." So they are jubilant, and they're giving much milk. Yes. So in Europe, the cows are also good, but the cow-killing system also very good. So you stop this. We simply request that, that you'll get the cow's flesh. As soon as it is dead, we shall supply you free of charges. You haven't got to pay four thousand pounds or four, this, or so much money. You get free and eat. And why you are killing? Stop this slaughterhouse. What is the wrong in this proposal? I think he could not give any counter-reasoning.

Room Conversation with Mr. Tran-van-Kha, and President & Members of the Society of Buddhists in France -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Sun-god. So how many millions?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: About 120,000,000 years ago.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pṛthu Putra: (French)

Prabhupāda: So this philosophy was spoken 300 millions of years ago. And then again, He spoke 5,000 years ago. This is the history of Bhagavad-gītā. Now, your question. You say that animal has no soul, is it not?

Yogeśvara: (French)

Prabhupāda: That a man has soul, you admit?

Yogeśvara: (French)

Lady (1): (French)

Yogeśvara: Generally in the West it is admitted that the man possesses a soul and not the animals.

Prabhupāda: So why this difference? What difference you find in animal from the man?

Yogeśvara: (French)

Lady (1): (French)

Yogeśvara: She says it is only the body that is different.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Everything is worst. Sinful is sinful. Disease is disease. This body, either it is living or it is dead, it is not very important thing. Now see. And the whole world is after this body. Kṛṣṇa says, "The body, either dead or alive, it is not a subject matter for serious consideration." Now see. And what the world is going on? Simply for bodily... Body means senses. It is very difficult to the, for the western people to understand that body is not important thing; the soul is important thing. First of all, they do not know what is soul and then consideration of importance. This is their position. And if one cannot understand what is soul, what he will understand about God? Soul is a minute particle of God. If one cannot understand about this minute particle, then what he'll understand of the Supreme? In the laboratory, if you can test a little sample, just like take a little sea water, analyze, you chemically test, then you can understand what is the composition of the sea water. But if you have no knowledge even a small drop of sea water, how you'll understand the sea, what... That is their position. They do not understand even the sample of spirit soul, as we are. Simply they are trying to cover it. "There is no soul. There is no soul. Life is generated from matter." Although they cannot prove it. A fool's paradise. The fools, rascals, they are explaining the living force in some way, and other fools are accepting. This is the position of western countries, Europe and America. It is a fool's paradise. It is paradise, certainly. Very, very, big, big building and advancement, but all rascals and fools. Fool's paradise. (pause) And if you call a fool a fool, he'll be angry. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopayati na śamyati (?). (pause) (break) ...so many, so much production, but if nature's law can stop this production, then the question of over-population. If the nature likes, it can produce three times, four times this production. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). After all, nature is producing. We do not know how to deal with nature. Therefore there is scarcity, and we say, "over-population." There is no question of over-population. There are so many hundreds and thousands of birds within this forest, other animals. They have no problems of over-population. Eh? (pause) All these men, who are living in these villages, so what is their means of livelihood? Agriculture or industry? Or service?

Morning Walk -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Just see. Their sensation is very covered. Just like you cut the nails. There is no sensation. And does it mean there is no sensation-therefore there is no life? Unless there is life, how it is growing? It is growing; therefore you cut. But when you cut, there is no sensation. But there is life. Otherwise, how it is growing? The same nail, when you cut, you throw it on the ground. It will not grow. These are practical example. Just like little child. Their sensation is less. I know. My eldest daughter, when she was six months old, there was some boil. So the doctor operated. She simply, "Uh, uh," no cried. I have seen it. She was not crying. But the same boil, when a fully developed man, he will feel more sensation. So according to the body, the sensations are different. The same things, means mind, intelligence and ego, according to the body, they act differently. But the mind, intelligence and ego are there. The dog is coming, and if I say, "Hut!", unless it has got intelligence, how it goes away the other way? There is intelligence. There is no language, but because he has got intelligence, he can immediately understand I don't want him to come here. So how you can say there is no intelligence? The rascals say "The animals have no intelligence; therefore they have no soul." If one has no intelligence, there is no soul. That is admitted. But here is intelligence. How can you deny, "There is no soul"? The animals, the cows, when they are taken to the slaughterhouse, why they cry? Because he has intelligence that "Now I am going to be killed." And these rascals say there is no soul. And still, they are religious priests. Such fools and rascals are made religious fools, priests. No common sense. And they also get degree, Doctor of Divinity, DD. (break) ...Greek scholar, here in this Germany or in nearby?

Haṁsadūta: I don't know Prabhupāda. We have been here for too short a time to find out who is exactly here, and all the people we contacted, their program was already fixed. They could not come, but they said they would be happy to meet you if you came again.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 4, 1975, Dallas:

Prabhupāda: Yes, how you can say there is no spirit? You have got spirit. Your body is moving. You are walking. You are eating. You are talking. And as soon as the spirit is gone, then it is dead matter, bulk. The hand is there; it will not work. The leg is there; it will not work. So where is the difference between the cow's body and your body? Come to human reasoning. You say there is no spirit, so how you say? Where is the difference between your body and cow's body?

Jayatīrtha: They say that the cow has no soul. Therefore we can eat the cow. But now they say that the man has no soul, so the conclusion is...

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Jayatīrtha: Previously they said the cow has no soul, so therefore we can eat the cow. But now they say that man has no soul.

Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore kill in the womb. That is killing, the abortion, killing. That means advance of... advancement of ignorance is accepted as advancement of civilization. Why? The beginning is that there is no spiritual knowledge. Therefore the so-called advancement of ignorance is accepted as advancement of civilization. That is due to want of that basic principle of spiritual knowledge. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (devotees chant japa) (break)

Bhakta-rūpa: Perhaps that man thinks he has retired from working hard.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Bhakta-rūpa: Perhaps that man thinks he has retired from working hard. But still he is performing so many activities, material activities.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes, these things are... And in Vṛndāvana, one big Gosvāmī, he died at the house of her (his) one woman disciple, lying there, sleeping with her. There are so many.

Pañcadraviḍa: That's how this Bishop died also. He died unclothed.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Trivikrama: And he was saying that animals have no soul.

Prabhupāda: You were present that time?

Trivikrama: I heard the tape. So now he is an animal. He knows.

Prabhupāda: (Chuckles) So I am just interested, but people will, many people will come and many theories. So you discuss among yourself how to get the strength to defend yourself and to convince them.

Acyutānanda: But unless their theology is practical, if it is not practical, then it is useless to study theology, if it has no practical application.

Prajāpati: They make that point. "Therefore," they say, "such talk about God is impractical. So therefore we don't bother talking about God."

Prabhupāda: "Then why you put theology?" That is our point. "Then why you have put this theology?" "There's no use talking of God"—that is another thing. But when you make "logy," you must come to logic. "Logy" means discussion. Is it not? "Logy" means science?

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, this is spiritual vision because a paṇḍita, paṇḍita means learned man, his equal vision means he does not make any difference between the souls. The dog has got also soul and the learned scholar has got also soul. But the soul is covered by the dog's body, and here the soul is covered by the learned scholar's body. Actually both of them are souls, part and parcel of God.

Jesuit: Would you think that their souls are of different value, the soul of the dog...?

Prabhupāda: No, soul is of the same value.

Jesuit: That I would find hard to accept.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Jesuit: 'Cause as I would understand it, the soul of the man, of any man, is what we would call a spiritual soul, an immortal soul, and the soul of the animal is a principle of life, what the Greeks would call savvy(?), Aristotle would call psyche. But it is not of an immortal soul, therefore the man has higher value than the animal, the dog, something like that.

Prabhupāda: No. What do you think? Just like a child, as a child's father, the child has got different soul and the father has got different soul?

Jesuit: They've got different souls but they're both immortal, spiritual souls.

Prabhupāda: Who is important, the child or the father?

Jesuit: Both are important, both very important, both more important than...

Prabhupāda: Which one? Which important?

Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: It is not effective. Just like the government spending to stop drug habit, millions of dollars, no use, but as soon as they come to us, immediately they give up. But still, the rascal will not pay the money to us. (laughter) We are doing so much benefit, but they will not pay. If you ask them money, "No, no, our money is not for religious purpose. For science. Our money is for science." Science means how, scientifically, you can kill cows. This is science. How, scientifically, you can become less than cats and dogs. This is their science. The cats and dogs also, they do not kill their children, but they are scientific advanced; the doctor advises, "Kill it."

Australian devotee 2: Śrīla Prabhupāda, most of the people in the western world are Christians and they say the cow has no soul.

Prabhupāda: This is not the question of Christian or western. This is the disease of the whole world. It is not that only the westerners are accused, not the others. No, it is... We don't say like that. Everyone... This is the influence of this Kali-yuga.

Australian devotee 2: They feel justified in killing because they say the animal has no soul.

Prabhupāda: Just see how fool they are. Therefore we simply say these are rascals. They have not even the common sense of an uneducated man. And they are scientist. Why there is no soul? What is the proof? What is their argument? Why they say there is no soul? What is the argument?

Australian devotee 2: Because it says in the Bible that until one accepts Jesus Christ one has no soul.

Prabhupāda: Jesus Christ said that animal has no soul? Has he said like that? Has he said?

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā and the education is there, that, immediately Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Asmin dehe, there is the soul. This is the beginning of education. But there are many learned scholars; they do not believe in the soul. That is the difficulty. They do not believe. A big, big professor.... I have been in Moscow. Professor Kotovsky, he said, "No, there is no soul. After this finishing of the body, everything is finished."

Yogi Bhajan: But they don't have experience.

Prabhupāda: Therefore... So if you assemble some not experienced men, then how there will be unity?

Yogi Bhajan: No, granted. What we are trying to do is we are giving out a call to all learned, the unlearned... But basic fact is: there is a desire somewhere in the ether that everybody wants to feel each other. And they have not done anything good by negating each other or talking negatively. They have not gained anything. They have realized it now. Otherwise...

Prabhupāda: Now, what will be the basic principle of unity? That is the point.

Yogi Bhajan: The point of basic unity is respect for each other.

Prabhupāda: But that is going on. Suppose you have come here. I welcome you. If I go to your place, you welcome me. That respect is going on.

Yogi Bhajan: Yeah, that's right. That is between two individuals.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: What is that Kant's philosophy?

Dr. John Mize: One major difference it seems with the point of view of the eastern Indian philosophies in particular is that the soul of man does not seem to be something eternal, but it seems to be something created.

Prabhupāda: Created?

Dr. John Mize: Created.

Prabhupāda: No. Soul is part and parcel of God. As God is not created, He is creator, above creation, so the father creates a child; therefore father is above creation. So God is above creation. God created the cosmic manifestation. Before creation of this cosmic world, God was there. Therefore He is not created; He is creator of all created things. And the soul, being part and parcel of God, he is also not created.

Dr. John Mize: The question that bothers me in part is then why would the soul... Because I understand your conception that the soul is part of the spiritual sky originally or part of God, and it somehow falls out of this blissful condition due to pride, much like the Christian thesis that the devil fell out of heaven due to pride. And it seems puzzling why the soul would be so silly, so foolish, so insane, as to do such a thing.

Prabhupāda: That is his independence.

Dr. John Mize: Independence.

Prabhupāda: Instead of using independence properly, when he misuses independence he falls.

Dr. John Mize: I'm sorry, he what?

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That means one has to come to the platform of brāhmaṇa. Then he can enter into devotional service. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param (BG 18.54). In that brāhminical state he sees every living entity as part and parcel of God. That is samaḥ, equality. He does not see like this, that the human being has soul and the cow has not soul. He does not see like that. He sees the cow has soul, the ant has soul, the elephant has soul, the tree has soul, the human being has soul. That is samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. By ignorance he thinks that "The tree has no soul; the cow has no soul; the animal has no soul; simply we have got soul." That is ignorance, base quality. But when you come to the pureness of goodness, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, this qualification will arise. So a devotee is not willing to kill even an ant because he knows that "He is also soul, part and parcel. By his karma, he has become ant, I have become a human being. So I am the same soul; he is the same soul. He is different body. He is suffering in that way. I have got different body. I am also suffering, but I am thinking I am enjoying." That is samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. What is the meaning, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu?

Jayatīrtha: Samaḥ means equally disposed; sarveṣu means all; bhūteṣu means living entity. "He is equally disposed to every living entity."

Prabhupāda: So we can see on equal level when (sic:) you become a brāhmaṇa. Brahma-bhūtaḥ, not in the United Nation, passing resolution and fight is going on outside, because they have no vision, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. So the politicians should be guided by the brāhmaṇas. That is social structure. Those who are first-class men in the spiritual understanding... Or the politicians, the administrators, they should take instruction from the brāhmaṇas and take part in politics. Then they will be also first-class men. You haven't got to drag him down again. First of all elect, and drag him down. This is mistake. Just like you elected Nixon president; again you dragged him down, because there was mistake. You do not know who to elect because you are not guided by brāhmaṇas. This is the fault. The whole society is being guided by the mle..., śūdras and some portion vaiśyas. Mostly śūdras and some certain percentage, mercantile. And no kṣatriya, no brāhmaṇa. Therefore, for the peaceful life in human society, there must be four divisions. Find out this verse, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13).

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Take. (eating)

Dr. Mize: This is delicious.

Prabhupāda: Now you can take. Kṛṣṇa has given us so many nice things. Why should we kill the poor animals? That's not good. Because na samaḥ, there is no such vision, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. He is not a brāhmaṇa. He is giving the dog a bad name and hang it. Animal has no soul. What is this? Animal has no soul?

Bahulāśva: Sometimes they argue that we're killing the vegetables.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Vegetable has also life but we are not killing. When you pluck out the flower, the tree is not killed. When you take a fruit, the tree is not killed. When you take grains, automatically they die. Then you take the grains. There is no question of killing. But even it is killing, it is not as murderous as killing a cow. Why the state hangs a man when he kills a man? The man can plead that "So many animals are being killed every day. If I kill one man, what is the wrong there?" The punishment is that "You have killed one important animal." Therefore the Bhaga..., kṛṣi-go-rakṣya, that cow should be protected because it is a very, very, important animal. It does not say, "Other animal." Or does not say, "All animals." He said, "Cows," because important. It's supplying you milk, so important food. She is your mother and you are killing mother? Is that your civilization? Killing mother? "Mother is old, and mother is no more supplying milk. Kill." Is there any such sanction? Rather, old mother is given more protection. And what is this civilization, killing the mother? In the morning we require milk immediately, and the mother cow is supplying. And when she cannot supply, kill her. What is this philosophy?

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dharmādhyakṣa: Prabhupāda, what is the symptom that you have reached the spiritual platform?

Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. Prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54), samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. These persons who are on the mental platform, they will argue, "The animal has no soul."

John Mize: I did not understand the answer.

Bahulāśva: Prabhupāda said that those who are on the mental platform will argue that the animal has no soul. They will be hankering and lamenting...

Prabhupāda: These are the signs of material platform.

Jayatīrtha: On the spiritual platform you're able to see all living beings equally, but on the mental platform...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ. Find out this verse.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: No, by nature, he is not mixed up with these material things, but he is entrapped by his free will. Just like we are staying here. We are not bound to stay here, but we have come here. Nobody has forced us to come here.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So is that philosophy, simultaneously one and different...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...that acintya-bhedābheda is also applicable in the case of...

Prabhupāda: No, soul never mixes with the matter. Now I have come here, I am not mixed up with this jungle.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But it looks like it...

Prabhupāda: It looks like. That is another thing. Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. The Vedic injunction is" "The puruṣa, the soul, is never complicated or mixed up with this." Because just like oil and water, it never mixes. The oil keeps its separate identity in water.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. But if you put in a body, though they cannot be mixed, but they can stay together. Like in a chemical laboratory we take a test tube. In the test tube I can mix two solutions like, for example, mercury and water and oil. They will not mix, but they will stay in the same test tube. But a man who knows about the art of separating those three mixtures can do it very nicely.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Similarly, soul does not mix with the matter and by this art, transcendental knowledge, you can become out of it.

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Why?

Dharmādhyakṣa: Because they feel that they can study the behavior of rats and pigeons very easily, much more easily than a human being. They can manipulate them. And then they extrapolate from their data on the rats and pigeons as to what human behavior is.

Prabhupāda: So, but they say that except man, there is no soul?

Jayatīrtha: But now they say that no one has a soul.

Dharmādhyakṣa: No, the modern psychological definition is that man is a flesh and blood organism and that you can know man by studying his bodily processes.

Prabhupāda: Then why don't you give life to the flesh and blood?

Dharmādhyakṣa: That is a problem.

Prabhupāda: Then it is foolishness.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Oh, definitely.

Bahulāśva: In California they have passed a law that homosexuality is legal. So the psychologists say that they see the dogs and the hogs and monkeys having homosex relationships, so on that grounds, they say, it should be legal.

Prabhupāda: They have got homosex? Dogs, hogs, I don't think.

Morning Walk -- July 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is good. (break)

Yadubara: ...that theory is correct, isn't it, in a sense, that the bodies are always changing? The bodies are always changing, so from the outward appearance it seems that the evolutionary theory is correct.

Prabhupāda: No, that is... We, accepting evolution. But their evolution is that there is no soul who is the proprietor of the body. That they do not know.

Yadubara: So there is no meaning to their theory then.

Prabhupāda: Because in beginning is mistaken. (break) ...your education from wrong platform, then whole thing is wrong. (break)...study means that "I am this dress," then do you study me properly? So that is their intelligence. They are studying, Darwin studying, this body and no knowledge of the proprietor of the body. (break)

Rādhā-vallabha: They argue that this Vedic philosophy is coming from India, and in India there is so much disease and so many problems, but here, where we have our science, there is no disease.

Prabhupāda: Because they are now fond of you. The Indians have become infected by you; therefore they are diseased. You are all diseased, and now you infected them, they have also become diseased.

Brahmānanda: But why is there no disease here? Why is there no symptoms?

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: But that you do not know, how to do good to the people. Just like a diseased man. The doctor has ordered that he should starve. But if you go in the hospital and you take sympathy with the starving patient, "Oh, you are starving for the last three days," if you give to him some food without the permission of the physician, then you will be punished. So he may think that "Oh, here is a starving man. I must give him some food." But you are liable to be punished. So first of all learn how to do good to others. So that is described here. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido (SB 1.5.18). To bring him to the knowledge of self-realization, that is good. If you can distribute knowledge to bring him back to his consciousness, original consciousness, that is real welfare activity. Otherwise, if you manufacture something that "This man is starving: let me give him some food," it may be wrongly done, and you are liable to be punished. So first of all, you must learn what is actually good to the human society. Then, if we do that, that is good. In ignorance, if we do it, then we may be liable to be punished. Besides that, your thought is imperfect. Just like you try to give food to some living being, but other living being you send to the slaughterhouse. You do not consider. You put your philosophy, that "The animal has no soul. They are like dead matter," but that is not the fact. The animals also have got soul, and the human being, he has got also soul. The ant has got also soul. Everyone has got. Every living being has got soul. Why you are inclined to do good to the human society? What is the reason? Why not to the animals?

Morning Walk -- August 24, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: So do it. (break) ...of the modern civilization, they are thinking that having such nice house, nice motorcar, nice road, nice machine, nice dress, nice woman, they will be happy. This is advancement of civilization. What is this? Don't drink, don't smoke, no meat, simply denying, denying? This is civilization. They think "This is practical. And after death who is going to take care?" Bhasmī-bhutasya dehasya kutaḥ punar-āgamano bhavet: "When the body is finished, burning into ashes, who is coming, and who is responsible?" This is atheistic civilization. (break) ...artha-maninaḥ. External energy, that is everything. Within the body there is the soul. They deny it. There is no soul, body is everything, and enjoy bodily enjoyment. That's all. And our philosophy immediately condemns that "Anyone who is in the bodily concept of life, he is sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13); he is animal." So this is a park?

Indian man: A small park.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a lot of parks of this type.

Prabhupāda: ...India Gate?

Tejas: India Gate is this way, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Oh. You have to go this side or this side?

Tejas: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Ravindra Thakur?

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So this stool and foam does not pollute the Ganges water. You set it aside and take your dip. That example is given that. External feature does not pollute the soul. Asaṅgo 'ya hi puruṣaḥ. The puruṣa... it is simply our abhiniveṣa. Abhiniveṣa is dangerous. Otherwise the soul has nothing to do with this body.

Dr. Patel: That's right. No, soul is separate from all the three bodies.

Prabhupāda: Exactly like that: one is on the motorcar. He has nothing to do with the motorcar, but if he thinks, "My car is life. Everything my..."

Dr. Patel: Air is coming into...

Prabhupāda: That abhiniveṣa gives him trouble. So this abhiniveṣa can be removed by increasing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And the Kṛṣṇa consciousness is increased by following the regulative duties. Rise early in the morning, have maṅgala ārati, this, that, up to ten o'clock. Means vidhi.

Dr. Patel: That is religious vidhi.

Prabhupāda: So by vidhi, he becomes practiced, and....

Dr. Patel: That becomes a nature then.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then it is nature.

Dr. Patel: And finally it gives you sākṣād-dharma. (?)

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa's desire. If Kṛṣṇa desires, He can do anything. So a devotee does not interfere with Kṛṣṇa's desire.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We know that Kṛṣṇa desires everyone to become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is... Kṛṣṇa says. That is His desire. Sarva-dharmān pa..., mām ekāṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. That is Kṛṣṇa's desire.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So Kṛṣṇa is not causing everyone to forget Him.

Prabhupāda: No. Kṛṣṇa's desire is open to everyone. We don't accept it. That is our obstinacy. Kṛṣṇa says "There is soul." We do not say. "No, there is no soul." This is our position. Kṛṣṇa says, "Within this body there is soul," and we don't accept. We'll argue. This is our position. He is giving direct instruction, "Yes, there is soul," but we don't accept. Disobedient.

Cyavana: But if Kṛṣṇa knows that we will suffer in this material world, why does He let us go away from Him? Why doesn't He keep us there?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Cyavana: If Kṛṣṇa knows that we will suffer here in this material world if we come here, why does He let us go?

Prabhupāda: Why the thief goes to the prisonhouse? He knows that "If I go to the prisonhouse, I will be put into distress."

Cyavana: But the government is not strong enough to force him not to go, not to steal.

Prabhupāda: Why government is not strong enough?

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Ahaṅkāra vimūḍhātmā. Rascal. Not only ahaṅkāra vimūḍhātmā, no knowledge. Such a big, very big rascals, Stalin, Lenin, when nature ordered, "Die now. Finish your business..." And still, they are proud. I am doing all these things, and where is the guarantee that I shall stay here? At any moment I shall be asked to go away. No sense. First of all make it assured that you shall be able to remain here. "No. That is not... I shall... When I... I'll go away. Let me do it."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So they say now, Prabhupāda, that there's no soul and life is just a combination of elements.

Prabhupāda: Soul, your... It will take many millions of years to understand soul, but this is your position; you understand it, that you'll be kicked out at any moment. Why don't you understand this? There is no question of understanding soul. That is far away. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes over pay, that they're not getting enough money, they will riot. And the white policemen, they come and shoot them.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Simply shoot them.

Prabhupāda: Shoot.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Kill them.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: If everyone is rascal, how he will think? We say mūḍha, all rascals.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But when the early scientists, they were analyzing the body, they tried to find the soul. They would look for the soul in different parts of the body. They couldn’t find it with their microscopes.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is his rascaldom. He's a rascal. But soul is there. Then find out what is the missing point of a dead man. If there is no soul, something is missing.

Harikeśa: Well, actually they’ve pinned it down to a little bit of a molecule that breaks down.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Bring that molecule.

Harikeśa: They’re working on it.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Again, "working on it." You see. This is bluff. This is bluff.

Harikeśa: Now they are inventing these different DNA and RNA molecules to change people by injecting them with these different things before they are born, making new people.

Prabhupāda: That is not very difficult thing. If you make some vegetable, if you add more sugar it becomes sweet. If you add more salt it becomes salty. That you can do. That is not very difficult. Our question is wherefrom the life comes? That is our… So they do not give any answer to this. That is their foolishness. What is that life? They say life developed from chemical. Now do it. By chemical combination make in one egg and give it to the fomenting machine. What is that? Fomenting machine? They have got heating machine?

Room Conversation -- October 15, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot fix anything. You can simply think that "I am now fixed up." That is not possible. Even if you fix up one type of suffering, another type of suffering will come. So suffering must be there. The body means suffering. One should understand this, that asann api kleṣada asa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). Na sādhu manye yato ātmano 'yam asannapi kleṣada asa dehaḥ. You are trying to adjust things, threefold miserable condition, but you should understand that as soon as you get this material body, it will be suffering only. Therefore whole Vedic civilization is a culture how to stop this material body. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they are also trying. The Buddhists, they are also trying. But they are thinking that "There is no soul. Finish this body." This is Buddhist theory. But they know that this is suffering. Similarly, the Māyāvādī, they also know this body is suffering, so they want to come out of the body and merge into the existence of God. The senses are already there, either Buddhist or Māyāvādī. And Vaiṣṇava philosophy is "Not only come out of this miserable condition of life, but enter into Kṛṣṇa's family and live peacefully." But so far the body is bad, it is accepted by all philosophies. Any kind of Indian philosophy, they will accept that body is bad.

Harikeśa: The Mormons think they go to heaven in the same body.

Prabhupāda: Rascals. Except in India, there is no philosophy.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: We are just now worshiping body, sir. We are worshiping body, and we don't want to worship soul now. That is what he says.

Indian (6): Body is nothing. The soul is there. That is understood.

Prabhupāda: So if you reject soul and simply worship...

Indian (6): No, soul is there.

Dr. Patel: He wants to say (Hindi) is the point. (Hindi) (break)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) So if you take spiritually advanced, the bodily care is already taken.

Dr. Patel: That is what I have learned. That you were saying before but then I got a postscript from one other devotee.

Prabhupāda: No, no. One thing, example, that dead body. Now, when the spirit is gone, now can you take care of the dead body?

Dr. Patel: It rots.

Prabhupāda: So long the spirit is there, it is all right. And as soon as the spirit is gone, it is simply lump of matter.

6: No, if you misuse it...

Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Na te vidu svārtha-gati hi viṣṇu durāśay ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Bahir-artha, bodily concept, this is bahiḥ. And antar is the soul. So they are bahir-artha-māninaḥ. These rascals are bahir-artha-māninaḥ, simply studying this body externally, bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Very nice words, selected words, are used in Bhāgavata.

Dr. Patel: Yes, sir, this body and the soul are complimentary. If there is no body, soul cannot reside anywhere. And if there is no soul, body will die.

Prabhupāda: No. That is another side of bodily conception. Soul is without... Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. "The soul has nothing to do with this material world."

Dr. Patel: That's right. You are absolutely right, sir. But if there is no soul in the body, what will happen to the body?

Prabhupāda: No, no. If there is no soul in the body, then body is useless.

Dr. Patel: It dies.

Prabhupāda: That's all. That we are pointing out, that without soul, this body has no meaning. It is a lump of matter. But you are saying that without this lump of matter, the soul cannot...

Dr. Patel: No, no. I don't say that. But so far as the body is living, soul has got to be there.

Prabhupāda: No.

Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: If there is no soul inside, what will happen...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Body requires the soul for movement, but soul does not require the body.

Dr. Patel: Soul creates a body to fulfill...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Soul creates in this sense: by his karma he has to accept, accept a certain type of body. But originally he doesn't require this material world. Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. And that is self-realization.

Dr. Patel: The production of the body in the cosmos is the līlā of...

Prabhupāda: No līlā. It is compulsory.

Dr. Patel: Why compulsory?

Prabhupāda: Just like if a man is beaten with shoes, that is not his līlā. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: What it is?

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: Not unknown. It is unknown to you. But known to us. If it is unknown to you, you take, you know it from me. That is real knowledge. Why you persist that "It is unknown"? It should remain ever unknown? Why shall I take from anyone else? That's a fact. Either you answer what is that element which is missing so that the body is now dead. Simply your denial is obstinacy. That is dog's obstinacy. Then you are like a dog. You answer that: "This is the reason." Make experiment; prove it. Then you are right. So long you cannot do it, simply denying, that is dog's obstinacy. If you, as you say, there is no soul, it is chemical combination, so bring the chemicals and put him into life. Then your statement is right. You cannot do it and simply persist. This is doggish. You are calling a lump of matter your father, your child, your relative, and when the soul is gone, you say, "Oh, my father is gone." Why your father is gone? He's lying there on the bed. The same coat, pant, face, ear, eyes. Why do you say, "My father has gone"? What is this nonsense? So that chemical combination is your father? Bring your father again, chemical combination. Hmm? What is the answer? Some foolish, rubbish thing, presentation, will it be accepted as knowledge?

Harikeśa: Another point.... I just thought of. They say it's some chemical which is missing that's making life, yet, if the same chemical is there that's making life, what accounts for so many different varieties of life? If it's the same chemical, how is there so many different varieties from that same chemical?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 16, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...is in ignorance. Combination of matter and soul, moving animals. Some of them are standing as trees and plant, and some of them are moving. Where is the science to study? What is your value of knowledge? Hm? If they do not know the fundamental things, then what is the value of their knowledge? Simply observation, superficial, externally. There is good scope. They are receiving these books. We should take chance of preaching this Bhāgavatam, and the classes should be held especially.... No, the religious classes are already there. Let them study Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā. And they will accept it. They are not fools. Simply we have to introduce it. The Western people, they are not fools, but misguided. So you take the charge of guiding them; then Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will be successful. They will appreciate, they will take it up and reform, and their life will be successful. And if they utilize their intelligence how to reduce population and kill child within the womb and "There is no soul in the womb. When they come out then the soul becomes"—what is this nonsense? Unless there is soul, how it becomes manifest?

Hariśauri: It's obvious. If the body is growing within the womb, there must be life there.

Prabhupāda: The same process is going on from the very beginning. A body is formed and it develops. The child is born.... The same process is going on. How do you say there is no soul? If there is no soul, how it has developed within the womb? Such rascals, they are passing on as big scientists. What is the reason they don't believe that there is no soul?

Harikeśa: They have really no argument.

Morning Walk -- February 26, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Now, just like a man is suffering from tuberculosis, and if his physician says that "You are attacked with tuberculosis," then he'll shocked. But the fact is there.

Dayānanda: They think that the Vedic culture is uncivilized.

Prabhupāda: They think because they are foolish rascals. They do not know what is the value of life. Big, big professor, he said, "Swamiji, after death everything is finished. There is no soul." Professor Kotovsky. This is their education.

Dayānanda: And then they wonder why their sons become hippies and act like monkeys. Even though they are civilized, their sons are acting like monkeys.

Prabhupāda: Actually we are introducing the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to make the Western people civilized. Yes. So you should take it very seriously and behave with responsibility. If you also want, become again like that, then how you'll be able to preach? Then what is the use of preaching? What is time?

Indian man (1): Six-thirty.

Jayapatākā: (Break) ...process.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, brāhmaṇa means perfect gentleman. Brāhmaṇa means perfect gentleman. A rogue, thief, cannot become brāhmaṇa. (laughs) Brāhmaṇa is perfect gentleman. Who feels for others, that is gentleman. Who does not feel for others, for his sense gratification, he is a rogue. A brāhmaṇa, a gentleman, must feel that "Why there should be animal killing?" That is gentleman. If you are killed, you cry and you are.... Hundreds and thousands of animals you are killing on the plea that they have no soul? Lowest class, narādhama. They have been described as narādhama. So narādhama civilization, how he can be happy? There must be frustration.

Devotee (1): Yesterday, Śrīla Prabhupāda, four or five people stopped me while I was in a bus during the day, and they would stop me and look at me with tilaka and etcetera, and say, "Why have you given up your Western life and taken to this life?" (Prabhupāda laughs) They were amazed. And then I had a Bhāgavatam, and I'd show them your picture, and I'd show them the Bhāgavatam and say, "Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59), a higher taste." And then they would appreciate. They would.... They were so impressed by your Bhāgavatam. They looked at your picture, and they'd go, "Yes, yes, you are right."

Prabhupāda: Yes, in my Preface I have written that: "What is the necessity of the human society?" This is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is required. It is a mistake to understand that we are trying to push on Hindu culture. Where is the Hindu culture? To become a gentleman is Hindu culture? It is for everyone.

Jayādvaita: They think that their paraphernalia makes them gentlemen. If they have a big car and a nice house then they are gentleman.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes, they have got all the sense, all the sympathy. For eating, sleeping, mating, they have got all intelligence.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What I mean to say is, physiologically speaking, at least from biological viewpoint, some of these creatures don't even have hearts. They're much easier to manufacture, the parts of their bodies.

Prabhupāda: You say there is no heart just like you say no soul. That is your vers.... I say that "When he is doing everything like a human being he has got everything." It is your insufficient knowledge that you say that.... Just like you say there is no soul. But that is your insufficient knowledge. That's not the fact. Kṛṣṇa says, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna (BG 18.61). When Īśvara is in everyone's heart, how you can.... Hṛd-deśe. How you say there is no heart? That is nonsense, another nonsense.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So this is speaking of the material heart.

Prabhupāda: Material, spiritual, you do not know anything. You don't talk. Better you become silent.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe, specifically said, "within the heart." The.... Even a germlike, what is called, atom, less than atom, there is heart. Otherwise how Kṛṣṇa says, hṛd-deśe?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe. Every living entity.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Brian Singer: ...it's there, but it isn't developed.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee (2): Yes, that's correct. In animals the soul is there, but the consciousness is not developed.

Prabhupāda: Not developed. But you cannot say there is no soul. Sometimes they say foolishly that the animal, there is no soul. That is foolishness. Everywhere there is soul. It is not developed. So just like a child is as good as animal, but you cannot say in the child there is no soul. The consciousness is not developed. You can say like that. Similarly, there are 8,400,000 species of forms. They are different on account of different development of consciousness. A tree, there is consciousness, but it is very, very covered. If you cut the tree, it does not protest, because the consciousness is not developed. I have seen in children surgical operation. They do not require anesthetics. I remember. My eldest daughter, when she was child, she had some boil here. So the doctor wanted to operate. So I asked him that "Apply anesthetic or do something." "No, no, they don't require." And so the doctor cut the boil, and the child simply, "Ehhh, ehhh," no crying. I have seen it when they did.... No crying. Because the consciousness is not developed. Now, what do you mean by...? When you are unconscious, if your head is cut off, you do not understand. That is practical if by medicinal process you are made into unconsciousness, chloroform anesthetic, so that you don't feel. This is practical. So unless the consciousness is developed, one's soul's full-fledged function does not develop. So this is a chance in the human form of body that the consciousness should be developed. Therefore we are presenting these books. They can understand. We are not presenting the books to the cats and dogs. They cannot understand. Those who are developed conscious, they can understand, and they can understand the value of life, what is the objective of life. Then he acts accordingly, and his life becomes successful. Otherwise, if we do not develop consciousness, simply eat like animal, sleep like animal, enjoy sex life like animal, and try to defend ourself like animal, then where is the difference between man and the animal? At the present moment they are busy with these four things: how to eat, how to sleep, how to have best process of sex life, and how to defend by atomic bomb. This is their advancement of civilization. And this is dog's civilization.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Then your.... Then your activities will be changed.

Brian Singer: But what.... I would like to know more about the, the soul in so far as, does it have beginning? Does it have end?

Prabhupāda: No, soul is always there. Just like the soul in the boy, the soul in the young man, and the soul in the old man—the same.

Brian Singer: Yeah, and before life...

Prabhupāda: Body has changed. Body has changed. The soul is the same. You can remember, I can remember that "I was a small boy. I was a small child." But the body is not there. I remember, when I was six months old I was lying down on the lap of my eldest sister, and she was knitting. I was seeing. I still remember. But where is that body? That body's gone.

Brian Singer: Yeah, this is possible to understand. Before the body, the soul is still there?

Prabhupāda: Before the childhood body and..., you were existing. Before your body was formed in the womb of your mother you were existing.

Brian Singer: Existing for millions of years.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: No, it is useless to talk with them. If you can peacefully sell some books, that's all. Don't enter into very long arguments, because they are all rascals. They cannot understand. Better peacefully, as far as possible, sell some books. Dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya kāku-śataṁ kṛtvā ca... This is the process. They cannot understand that because there is soul within the child, therefore child is becoming boy. As soon as there is no soul, the child does not become a boy. This simple philosophy they cannot understand, so what is their position? Now, this car is standing because there is no driver. Anyone can understand. Stand still. It will remain there for thousands of years unless a driver comes. Simple reason. But they are so rascal, they will not understand. So what is the use of talking with them? Simply waste of time.

Devotee (1): These people cannot be converted.

Prabhupāda: That is a fact. The dog cannot be converted. But we have to do it with stick. (break) ...that a dead child can be brought scientifically into life and he will grow, and still, they'll argue. So what is the use of argument with these rascals? When they are caught up, that "Do this," "Yes, we shall do in the future," and "What about the present?" there is no answer.

Hari-śauri: Everywhere we see millions and millions of different types of bodies are all growing, there's living force there, but still, they haven't been able to find it, and it's there all the..., everywhere, surrounding them, so what kind of scientists?

Prabhupāda: (break) ...provement. Have you improved this, that a dead body can be brought into life by scientific arrangement? And still, they'll say "improvement." What improvement? Simply dry talks, that is science? (break) First subject matter for scientific advancement, that there is soul within the body. On account of the presence of the soul, the body is changing. So the soul is different from the body. So this is the first education of scientist. And they have avoided this major.... They simply bluffing people, "We have discovered this..." What you have discovered? Discover this: What is the principle within the body? Real discovery, they are not interested. They are bluffing. They are fools, making others fools and going on as scientific advancement. First of all answer this.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Happiness is knowledge. Man who is in ignorance, he is suffering, and that you say material and spiritually. A person who is not in developed consciousness, he is suffering. And they commit sinful acts also.

Reporter: I beg your pardon?

Prabhupāda: They commit sinful acts also in ignorance. That is the difference between man and animal. Animal means not developed consciousness. They.... Some of them, they say the animal has no soul. That is foolishness. Animal has soul, but the consciousness is not developed. Just like a child. Father's consciousness and the child's consciousness different. Why it is different? The child's consciousness is not developed. Father's consciousness is developed. Because the child is talking some nonsense, you cannot say there is no soul. There is soul, but the consciousness is not developed.

Reporter: Do you see hope for mankind in the future?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Man can be happy immediately provided the consciousness is developed.

Reporter: Can.... Do you think that this will ever be achieved?

Prabhupāda: Yes. It can be achieved. Just like I have sent a letter to your government asking them questions that you write on the bills: "In God We Trust." So is it that you trust in God blindly or knowingly? That was my question. Suppose I trust you. So you must be trustworthy. Otherwise why shall I trust you? So this question I asked the government: "You write on the bills, 'In God We Trust,' so what kind of trust is this?" If you actually trust, then you must know that God is trustworthy. Only blindly trust as a slogan. But that letter is not in reply. So what is your opinion? "In God We Trust," but how do you trust, why you trust? This is my question.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all, this is to be answered, that this child, when he was born he was very small, lying on the lap of the mother. Now he's jumping. Now that body which was lying on the lap of the mother is no more existing. He has got another body which is jumping. But the mother knows that "It is my same child." Therefore the same soul is there; the body has changed.

Rāmeśvara: But they argue that there is no soul; it is simply the changing of matter.

Prabhupāda: The changing.... When the child is born dead, why he does not grow? (laughter) Therefore they are rascals.

Mahātmā: There was one boy in Berkeley, and he worked for a company that would record facts and figures, and he said every year the Navy would pay this company something like sixty thousand dollars and would give them their theories that they knew were wrong, and this company would supply false facts and figures to coincide with the theories—make up facts that would support their false theories.

Prabhupāda: What is that false theory?

Hṛdayānanda: They want to take money, so they say "We need so many things, you have to give us money from the government to buy new weapons," this, that, so they make up false things for money.

Prabhupāda: Befool.

Rāmeśvara: Child is born dead means defective body.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Sometimes the atheists, they say there is no soul-intuition. So we do not accept this proposal. The soul, when he is in particular situation, he remembers immediately what he has to do. Just like the small puppies, they have not even opened the eyes, but still, immediately after birth they're searching after food and goes immediately to the nipples of the mother. So how he goes there? They say it is intuition, but it is not intuition. The soul, being put into that body, immediately remembers all the activities of the body. Just like in Los Angeles. When I am in tour in other places I forget about Los Angeles, but as soon as I come here, I know where is my bedroom, where is my sitting room, where is my garden, immediately. I haven't got to be taught that "Here is your sitting room, here is your sleeping room." Immediately, I remember. Similarly, this living entity is transmigrating from time immemorial in different types of body. So as soon as he comes to a particular type of body he remembers the activities immediately. They are interpreting as intuition—that is not intuition. It is old remembrance. This is the explanation.

Rāmeśvara: But then there is an argument, if we were originally in the spiritual world, why don't we remember that and try to go back to the spiritual world?

Prabhupāda: That I have already said, that when I am in tour in Europe and India, I completely forget about Los Angeles. I act according to the circumstances there. And again when I come to Los Angeles, I immediately remember. This is natural. Out of sight, out of mind.

Bharadvāja: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we don't have to learn the activities of our spiritual body?

Morning Walk -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Animal or a man, when it is dead, then it is the same value. Is there any difference of value between the animal body and man's body?

Devotee (2): They think it is barbaric.

Prabhupāda: "They think," but you think like human being.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But the animal has no soul.

Prabhupāda: Soul or not soul, when the body is dead, is there any difference of value?

Śyāmakunda: Well, it doesn't seem human to eat a human.

Prabhupāda: This is nonsense, the rascal's nonsense.

Hari-śauri: It's too horrifying for them to contemplate that they may start eating each other.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Or their family dog.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Or their grandmother.

Śyāmakunda: But if it was wrapped up in a package and they didn't know it was the dog or their mother, they could probably eat it.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they can eat by packing.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: This is outside. This is not the combination of the solution. The soul is coming from outside. The same theory. It is not the solution which is creating life.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "The materialistic theory that there is no soul and that a child is born simply by material combination of a man's and woman's semina is not very feasible. It is unacceptable."

Prabhupāda: Next verse.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Text two. Kalalaṁ tv eka-rātreṇa, pañca-rātreṇa budbudam.

Prabhupāda: He's giving description of one day, one night, next night, next night, like that, every description.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:

kalalaṁ tv eka-rātreṇa
pañca-rātreṇa budbudam
daśāhena tu karkandhūḥ
peśy aṇḍaṁ vā tataḥ param
(SB 3.31.2)

Translation: "On the first night, the semina and ovum mix, and on the fifth night, the mixture ferments into a bubble."

Prabhupāda: The same thing.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is a basic difference between the earthworm and the man.

Prabhupāda: No difference. It is also living entity, you are also living entity.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But difference in the sense that the earthworm is, actually, it is not trying to violate the laws of nature. Just follows.

Prabhupāda: No, apart from that, the process of life is the same, biological. These rascals say that there is no soul of the animal, but is it correct biologically?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is biologically wrong.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you see the way physical and atomical constitution of the animal and the man, the same. If you say man has soul, then the animal has also soul. If you deny that man has no soul, then you can also deny. But so far physiological... They, in the biological laboratory, they dissect the frogs to see the similar arrangement. So how you can you say the frog has no soul? Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Sadāpūta: Śrīla Prabhupāda, on Saturday Svarūpa Dāmodara was talking about the scientific proof of the Absolute Truth from the Kṛṣṇa conscious point of view. When one realizes Kṛṣṇa, the Absolute Truth, does one also see like how the physical world is manifesting itself? Do we understand all physical laws, how chemicals are combining, or...? What do we actually understand when we understand the Absolute Truth?

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No, take the example of Christ. But because he ate fish, so because we eat vegetables, therefore a good cause for eating father and mother? For killing child?

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, they say that only the human has a soul, therefore it's wrong to kill humans. But other animals you can kill because there is no soul. That is their argument.

Devotee (3): They'll ask what should be killed and what shouldn't be killed for eating? Where do we draw the line?

Prabhupāda: No, you, we are speaking go-rakṣya. That is not point of view of killing. There are other animals. We do not say that you stop. If you want to eat some meat, at least don't kill cow. You can kill other insignificant animals which has no importance. Cow has got special importance because it supplies milk, and milk is very essential food that is... From the childhood, a child lives on milk, and there are many saintly persons, they also live by drinking milk. Milk is very important item in the human society, and it supplies all vitamins. Even if you say that "Meat-eating is essential for me," you can eat other animals, but don't kill cows. That is our proposal. Give protection to the cows. Kṛṣṇa mentioned specifically, go-rakṣya. He does not say that you don't kill, but you give protection to the cows. And if you want to eat meat, you can kill other animals. On the whole, paśu-hiṁsā, any animal killing, is not good for spiritual life. And so far vegetable is concerned, everyone has to eat something. So if you can eat vegetables, that does not mean because somebody is killing vegetables, he should kill his own father and mother on that plea. So cow is mother because we are drinking her milk. So you cannot put any argument in favor of killing mother. If you... Anyone who supplies milk from the body, she is mother. According to Vedic civilization, cow is one of the seven mothers. There are seven mothers: the real mother, ātma-mātā guroḥ patnī, the wife of spiritual master; then queen, rāja-patnikā. Ātma-mātā guroḥ patnī brāhmaṇī, the wife of a brāhmaṇa. In this way, especially, seven mothers, dhenu, dhenu means cow, and dhātrī, nurse, she is also mother. So from that point of view, cow is mother, and you cannot kill on any ground the mother. That is not good reasoning. You are taking the last drop of milk. In South Africa you said?

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: There are so many experiments.

Sadāpūta: We were wondering... We knew that, for example, Jagadisha Chandra Bose did some experiments indicating plants having consciousness. We were wondering if some things of that kind might be of some use.

Prabhupāda: So in the Calcutta there is Bose Institute, you can go and see. They have got all machine, how the plants are feeling. Everything is there.

Rūpānuga: That's important because they are saying these animals have no soul. They are saying lower form of life, they have no soul, so killing them is not important. So his work was important. It showed...

Prabhupāda: No, killing or not killing, that is another point. You can kill your own son. They are killing, actually. That is another point. But they have got soul. All the symptoms are there; how you can say there is no soul? Where is the difference between man's behavior and animal's behavior? So far eating, sleeping, sex, defense is concerned, the same thing. How do you say that it is different from the human being? Why they differentiate the animal from the man? What is the main point?

Sadāpūta: I think that scientifically that was just Christian doctrine that made them do that. Because the scientists turned around...

Prabhupāda: Christian doctrine is not perfect. But symptoms of animal and symptoms of human being, primary necessities eating sleeping, mating, defense that is there, everywhere.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Christian doctrine is not perfect. But symptoms of animal and symptoms of human being, primary necessities eating sleeping, mating, defense that is there, everywhere.

Rūpānuga: They may agree, but they'll say that this...

Prabhupāda: There is soul. As soon as there is living condition, there is soul. As soon as the body is dead, there is no soul. This is difference. It is the Christian doctrine, not scientific doctrine, that animal has... What we have to do with Christian theory?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have poor understanding of the nature of the soul.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In Christianity, they speak of...

Prabhupāda: It is not very advanced.

Rūpānuga: That's not respected.

Prabhupāda: That is true.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Even Billy Graham says there's no soul in the dog. In his column "My Answer"... There's a column by Billy Graham...

Hari-śauri: That's that column you saw.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So you challenge them, the scientists.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Somebody asked that "I love my dog. Looks like the dog comes when I call and behaves very nicely." So this question was asking that the dog might have soul. So he asked Billy Graham, "What do you think?" So Billy Graham was saying, "No, dog has no soul."

Prabhupāda: This is dogmatic. This is not scientific; it is dogmatic.

Rūpānuga: He could not support his statements.

Prabhupāda: So dogmatic, you can say any nonsense, but philosophy and science is different. If he's talking on dogmatic platform, then what is his value? What does he mean by "soul is there" and "soul is not there"? How does he prove?

Rūpānuga: We were finding that there are some real scientific experiments like Pasteur's, the one we did in the slide show the other night, and some of the work of Bose, that have been ignored simply or misinterpreted. Already there has been some work in this area. So we were thinking that we could point to these as examples to confirm our position, because they are scientific.

Prabhupāda: Now, in Christian commandment, there is "Thou shalt not kill." So what does it mean? (door opens and closes)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: These Chinese Bhagavad-gītās came, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: When the natural tendency is to get child, but child is killed, and a pig is taken. This is their civilization. Child is killed and pig is taken, dog is taken. This is their civilization.

Bali-mardana: They are preparing for their next birth as a pig.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Naturally you take child, take it: "No, that kill." And take artificially a pig or dog or cat. Take it.

Tripurāri: They say animal has no soul, therefore they can kill the cow and eat the meat. But when we say "What if I cut your dog's head off," they become very upset.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? Why upset? It has no soul. Kill it.

Hari-śauri: They cannot explain it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There was one story that this family came, they were touring the world, and they came to Hong Kong, and they were carrying their pet dog with them also. So they went to one restaurant and they left their dog tied up on a leash outside the restaurant, because that is the custom in America. So they told the man at the door, the doorman, they pointed to the dog, just to take care of the dog. So anyway, then they went in and they had their dinner and they came out, and the dog was gone. They said (laughter) "Where's my dog?" And the man said, "Well, you pointed to him, we have prepared him for you."

Prabhupāda: Yes, they do that. He thought that he has pointed out this dog.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That is the standard of education.

mātṛvat para-dāreṣu
para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat
ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu
yaḥ paśyati sa paṇḍitaḥ

Paṇḍita means educated. So how one is educated? How it is tested? When a person takes all women except his wife as mother, then he is educated. When one thinks others' property as garbage in the street, then he is educated. And when one thinks that all living entities are of the same level, ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu, then he is educated. Not that for my convenience I say, "The animal has no soul, so send them to the slaughterhouse." He is not educated.

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda said one of the standards of education is to see all living entities equally. So not that we say that an animal has no soul, therefore he can go to the slaughterhouse, but a man has soul, so he cannot. Because we see all living entities equally, so we do not send man to slaughterhouse, and we do not send animals to slaughterhouse. That is education.

Interviewer: What... In your system, what do you propose to do with criminals?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What do you propose to do with criminals in your educational system? How will you reform them?

Prabhupāda: Criminals should be punished.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: But they bluff, "We have taken photograph." And what you have known about it? Simply bluff.

Hari-śauri: The whole thing is so childish, it's...

Rādhāvallabha: They tried to find the bottom of the deepest part of the ocean, and their submarine snapped in half and they all died. There's too much pressure. (break)

Prabhupāda: How life is coming by force? And they say there is no soul.

Hari-śauri: You made the point the other day during massage that even though our building is twelve stories high and it's made of steel and concrete, still, there's small plants growing straight out of the cement.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) They do not go to the sun planet. What is the reason?

Tripurāri: They say that no life there.

Prabhupāda: Again life, no life.

Tripurāri: They think it's too hot for life to exist there.

Prabhupāda: So how Kṛṣṇa was there?

Rādhāvallabha: They don't believe that.

Prabhupāda: So how can I believe you? If you don't believe Kṛṣṇa, shall I have to believe you?

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Mike Robinson: I see. There's two things if I could perhaps bring up. One is a quote that we had.... I was given this literature by some of your people before I came, in which one of the things you say is that "Religion without a rational basis is just sentiment." Can you explain that to us, and the converse of it, which...

Prabhupāda: Just like they, most religions, they say, "We believe." So what is this believe? You may believe something which is not naturally correct. Just like some of the Christian people, they say "We believe there is no soul of the animal." That is not correct. You have believed because you want to eat the animal. You have discovered philosophy, but that's not the fact.

Mike Robinson: How do you know the animal has a soul?

Prabhupāda: You can know also. What is the difference? How do you distinguish that the animal has no soul and the man has soul? How do you distinguish? How do you say the man has soul and the animal has no soul? How do you distinguish?

Mike Robinson: I believe this Christian religion do it because their scriptures say...

Prabhupāda: Again you believe, don't believe, don't believe. When you say that the animal has no soul, but you believe or you know that man has soul. So what is the distinction between the man and the animal you find so that you say that the animal has no soul? What is your scientific conclusion? How do you say that animal has no soul?

Mike Robinson: As far as the Christian faith is concerned, doesn't it base it...

Prabhupāda: Why are you bringing Christian?

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Then it is misleading. As soon as you say that "We Christians, we believe," then it is misbelief. It is not scientific.

Mike Robinson: Well how does it become scientific?

Prabhupāda: Scientific because the animal eats, you eat. The animal sleeps, you sleep. The animals have sex, you have sex. The animal defends, you also defend. Then where is the difference between you and the animal? Why do you say there is no soul?

Mike Robinson: I can see that completely, but what I'm maybe querying is, for instance, the Christian scriptures would say that someone...

Prabhupāda: Don't bring Christian scripture now. Simply you just try to understand, that animal eats, you eat, and the animal sleeps, you sleep. The animals have sex, you have got sex. He also defends when he's attacked, you also defend. Then if the behavior of a living being is the same, how do you say that the animal has no soul? Why do you say like that? Irresponsibly?

Mike Robinson: I see what you're getting at, but is that also...

Prabhupāda: What is your answer, first of all?

Mike Robinson: Well, my...

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Apart from your believing as Christian. As we are talking, as a scientist, how do you deny this animal has no soul?

Mike Robinson: But ultimately you're basing all your faith factually, aren't you, on your reasoning?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. It is quite logic, that the animal can eat, you can eat; the animal can sleep, you can sleep. The animal can have sex, you can have sex; the animal can defend, you can defend; so why do you deny this poor animal soul?

Mike Robinson: Well, perhaps if I put my point perhaps a slightly different way, if, by your reasoning, if.... This is a hypothetical situation, but if you, by your reasoning, could imagine something that seemed contrary to the scriptures that you were reading earlier...

Prabhupāda: Again scripture, why do you bring scripture?

Mike Robinson: Well, I'm referring to your scripture, not...

Prabhupāda: Not my scripture, it is common sense, talking.

Mike Robinson: Yes, but everything that you, because in...

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Otherwise, there is no other way.

Mike Robinson: No, if you say...

Prabhupāda: If you are not on the basis of logic, then you are not rational.

Mike Robinson: Yes, okay. But let's start from another hypothesis. If you say the animal has no soul...

Prabhupāda: How you can say?

Mike Robinson: No, hang on, if you started off by saying that, then you'd have to say human beings would have no soul, wouldn't you?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mike Robinson: And therefore...

Prabhupāda: If you accept human being has soul, you have to accept animal has soul. If you accept animal has no soul, then there is no soul.

Mike Robinson: Well what proof have you got, then, that a human being has got a soul?

Prabhupāda: That is your business. We say everyone has soul. The animal has soul and the man has soul.

Mike Robinson: But if you're going to be rational, you've got surely to prove, you see you've got to prove that a human being has a soul.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: This is religion. This is religion. So this religion is applicable to everyone, any human being. Why do you bring Christian or Hindu or Muslim, or...? Everyone has to accept that. That is real religion. And this is not religion, "We believe there is no soul of the animal." That is not religion. That is most unscientific. That is not religion. Religion means scientific understanding of the supreme controller. So now if you accept the supreme controller, then if you violate something, you must be punished. Immediately you have to accept. As soon as you accept there is supreme controller, so immediately as you violate the laws of the supreme controller, immediately you are punished. That is nature's law.

Mike Robinson: Can we, can you say a bit more of that, just for the tape? You were saying that religion is obeying the supreme controller.

Prabhupāda: Yes! Religion means to understand the supreme controller and obey. That's all. Just like good citizen means he understands the government and obeys the laws of government. That's all. Good citizens. What is the difference between bad citizen and good citizen? The bad citizen means he doesn't care for the government—"Ah, I don't care for"—that is bad citizen. That is irreligious. If you are bad citizen, then you are irreligious. If you are good citizen, then you are religious.

Mike Robinson: Would you..., in your opinion, is it impossible for somebody to be a scientist and not to believe in God?

Prabhupāda: Unless he's a rascal, he cannot say that. Scientifically, you have to accept God. You cannot deny God. Just like the example I have given sometimes, just like you see there are so many living entities, beginning from grass, or anything. There are so many living entities coming out of the material elements. Some of them are coming from water, some of them coming from land, some of them coming from air.... (break) There is life in fire also. So the material nature is giving birth to so many living entities. So if the material nature is the mother and all these living entities are children, then where is the father?

Mike Robinson: I don't know. The father is God.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: You are punished. You are being punished in this way. Actually, I saw in New York, big, big building, they are breaking, again, another skyscraper. "No, I have business. Breaking the bricks," that's all. They think this is very good business. Once constructed, again break it. As child, children, they make a sand house and break it again. This is the occupation.

Harikeśa: But there's nothing else to do for them.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the difficulty. Now see, there is no soul. Why no soul? How foolish it is. "We believe." You believe something nonsense, it has to be accepted? Where is the difference of analogy?

Harikeśa: (laughs) They have to give up.

Prabhupāda: Analogy, the more the points of similarities are there, it is perfect. That is the logical conclusion. Everything is there similar, why you should deny the other? How rascaldom it is. Common sense.

Hari-śauri: He was a little bit confused because first of all you quoted śāstra, said everything was from śāstra. Then again you said "Forget the śāstra; this is logic." (laughter) He couldn't figure out how they both came into play. And then at the end you said that religion is logic.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is religion. If you have to accept the supreme authority, then as soon as you violate you are punishable. Very common sense.

Hari-śauri: It's because they're so conditioned by this man-made religion. They think that the scriptures they read is something that's made up.

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes. The more you become eager to know God, God will reveal Himself. From our side, we should not be stereotyped. People in different sects of religion, they say, "We believe." But they do not want to go further than they believe. That is very difficult. You must be dynamic and progressive, then you will have. I have talked with many sects, especially Christian priests. They will say "We believe," no more further than that. So knowledge is not like that. Knowledge must be progressive. "We believe there is no soul of the animal"—bas, fixed up. You believe like a rascal, so I shall remain rascal. What is this? We should be progressive. That is wanted. Of course, in the lower stage one may have a type of belief, but if you want more clearly, you must be progressive. According to Vedānta system, the life, human life, is only for inquiring about Brahman. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. We shall talk again.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, philosophy is there. Court case means there is philosophy, there is logic. So for that we have got so many books. We can... But general mass of people, chanting. When there is court case we are prepared to defend. We have got... We are not fools. We can talk that what is the aim of life. They cannot say anything. The transmigration of the soul, the aim of life which we are discussing in our book, that's fact. How he can deny the transmigration of the soul from one body to another? And if that is accepted, the whole problem is solved. He does not know what kind of life he is going to get. Therefore they do not accept this philosophy. If once accepted, then next question—"What kind of life we are going to get, either to become a tree or a dog or human being?" What arrangement you have done that you will get next life human being? Then the pious and impious activities comes one after another. The basic principle they are denying. "After this body is finished, everything is finished." Bhāsmi bhūtasya dehasya punar agama...(?) "The body will be burned into ashes, and where is life? Who is coming? Who is going? That's all." They do not see the soul. Their medical science cannot find out where is soul. How do they say the... The soul means intelligence, they say. Otherwise how do they say the animal has no soul? Why do they say? What is the... "Man has soul," they say. "The animal has no soul."

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (1) (Indian man): There's no soul in it.

Prabhupāda: That is the fact, we know. We know that is a fact, that... My point is that the modern age, they are very much proud of advanced technology. So where is that knowledge? And why people do not tax their brains to get this knowledge? This is very important subject matter. But where is that knowledge? And why they do not try to do it? We get information from the Supreme Personality of Godhead that this jīva, the driver... Not driver. The passenger. We are passenger, and driver is God, and machine made by material energy, māyā... Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. The similarity is there. Just like motorcar is manufactured by somebody and the passenger is there and the driver is there, similarly, this is a machine made by māyā. I am the passenger, and God is driver. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati bhrāmāyan (BG 18.61). Bhrāmāyan, the driver, the passenger of the owner, he is asking, "Mr. Driver, you go this way." So He's driving. Just like the same—Arjuna is asking Kṛṣṇa, senayor ubhayor madhye rathaṁ sthāpaya me 'cyuta: (BG 1.21) "Just between these two parties of soldiers, please keep my chariot." The same thing. The chariot driver, He is the Supersoul. In this body there are two souls. Kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. That he's also kṣetrajñā. Kṣetra is this body, and kṣetrajñā one knows, this body.... Just like I know it is my finger. I never say, "I finger." It is my finger. So similarly, the driver also can say, "It is my car," and the proprietor also can say. So two persons, one driver and one passenger, or the proprietor.... And the body is machine. The subjects are there. Why you do not try to understand the subject matter? Then where is your advancement? That is my challenge. Why you are so much proud of your advancement of knowledge. What is this knowledge? Tell me. You are young man. I am giving you the challenge. Either you admit that you are not advanced or make advancement. Why you set aside this difficult subject matter and become proud by making a small machine that you are advanced? Where is your advancement? (Hindi) He is Mr. Bajaj, the proprietor of the Bajaj Electricity.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Just like sex life is enjoyment, but a person who is suffering from tuberculosis—his death. He'll die if he indulges in sex life. That is medical science. "So it is condemned in the material world, not in the spiritual world. If you have good health, you can enjoy sex life. But you have tuberculosis? You'll die. Your sex life is death, and their sex life is life. That you cannot understand. You have such a poor brain that you could not follow even ordinary moral instruction of Jesus Christ." Answer should be given like that. "If you remain with your poor brain, don't try to argue. Be satisfied, your poor doggish brain, hoggish brain. You are like pigs and dogs. What you can understand about religion? First of all try to train yourself to be free from the sinful activities. Then you'll understand what is religion." Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam (BG 7.28). Ultimately, a person, sinful man, cannot go to the kingdom of God. Is it not? First of all stop this sex life; then talk of God. It is a fact. When the order of Jesus Christ, "Thou shall not kill," for the last two thousand years the rascals have never stopped killing. They are simply increasing slaughterhouse. And... So they are so poor in understanding, they say animal has no soul.

Rāmeśvara: That is their excuse.

Prabhupāda: But who cares for this excuse? It is not scientific. Is there any difference, anatomy and physiology, of the animals and the...

Rāmeśvara: They do not know what the soul means.

Prabhupāda: That's it. Now, when there is opportunity, condemn them like anything. It is opportunity to expose them.

Hari-śauri: We should do that, expose them?

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Oh. Paraṁ vijāyate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. Just see how small animal it is, and how freely it is going. Let them manufacture a small animal like this with chemicals. It has got all the symptoms of animal. It has got the desire. It has thinking, feeling, willing, then eating, sleeping, mating. Everything is there. And as such, the anatomic physiology is there, within such a full stop. Everything is there. If you check them going here, they'll protest. And wherefrom they are coming? Where they are going? Just see how small it is. You cannot see even with naked eyes, so small. But it has all life symptoms. And they say there is no soul.

Rāmeśvara: No, it is some wonderful chemical mixture that they have not discovered yet, very mysterious chemistry. It is all based on this idea of a study of genes and chromosomes, genetics. They have so many words for describing how it happens.

Prabhupāda: Jugglery, word jugglery.

Rāmeśvara: DNA, RNA.

Hari-śauri: But they still can't explain the power force that activates them. They still can't explain the actual source of power that activates those chemicals.

Prabhupāda: They cannot. It is not possible.

Rāmeśvara: In the late 1800's there was a very famous story in America called Frankenstein.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Pradyumna: Because it's dulled from sense gratification, they can't under...

Prabhupāda: "So whatever the cause, but you have no brain. Cause may be so many things. But you have no brain to understand the simple truth. Where is your brain? So this movement is not brainwashing. Brain-giving. You have no brain." Therefore śāstra says, sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Animal has no brain. They say animal has no soul, but that's not the fact. Animal has no brain. Otherwise, all anatomical, physical, physiological conditions are there. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna. But they have no brain. They cannot understand what is the difference between dead man and living man. That is the distinction between man and animal. But if you cannot understand, then where is your brain? On this point. Actually he has no brain. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). That was the point Arjuna was chastised, that "You rascal, you have no brain. You are lamenting on this body and talking like very learned man." Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca... (BG 2.11). The whole world is going on like that. They're talking like very big scientist, big philosopher, very big, big, big, but real thing they do not know. "So where is your brain?" Challenge them like that. "You cannot answer. You are big, big scientist, putting forward, 'by combination of chemical...' So why don't you combine the chemical and give the dead man to become alive? Where is your brain? You simply say 'combination of chemical,' but you take the chemicals and combine, then we can understand you have got brain. That you cannot do, falsely taking prestigious position that you have got brain. Actually you have no brain. Cheating people." Write articles on this. They have no brain at all. (Bengali) In India there is a prejudice that you should not lie down putting your head towards northern side. Whatever truth may be, one man was asked that "Don't keep your head toward northern side." So he answered, "Where is my head? The head is already cut off." So these people are like that. They are making propaganda of "brainwash," but where is your brain? Challenge them, "Where is your brain?" Cannot answer this simple thing. "Where is your brain?" Write a strong letter on this point and try to publish it. "If there is brain, there is question of washing or doing something else. But where is your brain? You have no brain." (aside:) What is that?

Evening Darsana -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: How do they speak there is no soul? What is the reason?

Acyutānanda: Their reason is they cannot see the soul.

Prabhupāda: Then they have no intelligence. Mūḍha.

Acyutānanda: When we dig a hole here and there's water, within a few weeks there's fish and frogs. They say that is...

Prabhupāda: Jalaja. First jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. Not only one variety, but nine lakhs of varieties they come out from the water.

Acyutānanda: But where do they come? They're in the water, latent in the water.

Prabhupāda: They're alive. Sarva-ga. Therefore we say that "Why not in the fire?" If there is life in water, why not in the fire? You cannot see. You have no eyes. There is life, and Kṛṣṇa says, nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ. Fire does not burn the living being, so why they will be not in fire? And Kṛṣṇa said, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham. He entered the sun planet.

Acyutānanda: So nothing material can divide the soul, but spiritual, when it enters the spiritual world, then it is dividing.

Prabhupāda: No, there is no question of dividing

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Do this. What is my idea I have given. Hm, Yes. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't understand.

Prabhupāda: Apareyam... (break) ...inferior. These rascals, they do not. The superior thing they do not know. They are simply entangled in this material, inferior. Psychologist, psychiatrist. (sound of shenai) Now there is moon. Intelligence. Intelligence, I think, they take it as soul. Therefore they say that the animal has no soul.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But an animal has intelligence. An animal also has some small degree of intelligence.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You were saying the cows, when they know there is something there, they stay away.

Prabhupāda: No. They can understand that "These people are going to kill us. These people will not kill us." They can understand. You know that when I was in America some incident took place, that some slaughterhouse livestock, the..., somehow or other, it was open, and they were fleeing away, going away. Something happened. They were going up on the slaughterhouse, and some of them were shooted.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The cows were running away?

Prabhupāda: Hm. Unless they could understand that "We are kept here for being slaughtered," why they were running away?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They speak of peace, such nonsense. How can they expect peace when they're slaughtering?

Room Conversation With Madhudvisa and others -- August 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Because they... Nowadays people say "We don't want any sentiment, religious. We want science." Rascal, where is your science?

Balavanta: They have only blind faith. "Big bang," all these things. There's no evidence, no proof, simply blind faith. And but for you, no one is challenging. They would simply go unchallenged.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It said in the article that in Ceylon, this man Kovoor has been challenging and being victorious for decades, challenging everyone, "There is no God. There is no soul." But now it said for the first time someone has turned the tables on him and challenged him for the first time. He never expected such a thing.

Prabhupāda: And public applauded.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about the doll project? That nice museum?

Satsvarūpa: Yes. Some big photographers, they are very much attracted, so they made a new, a second set of the changing bodies for the (faulty recording) ...on a mountain, some mountain, or a large hill in California, and all day this national publicity photographer took pictures of it for the press. He said he wants to make this the best-known picture of the year. I don't know where it's going to be released, but he wants to have it put in a big magazine. There's two of them. They both wanted the rights to take pictures of it. So they let the more famous one of the two... (indistinct)

Page Title:There is no soul (Conversations)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:14 of May, 2013
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=82, Let=0
No. of Quotes:82