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There is no question (Conversations 1975 Jul - Dec)

Expressions researched:
"no question" |"there can be no question" |"there could be no question" |"there is no question" |"there was no question" |"there will be no question" |"without any question"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- July 1, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: You just put the spices water, soaked in water for some time, and then in mortar and pestle you...

Dhanañjaya: Smash it.

Prabhupāda: That is very nice. And immediately you fresh prepare and put into the vegetable. It will be tasteful, and it will be beneficial. All spices are beneficial.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And much cheaper.

Prabhupāda: Cheaper, of course, there is no question to you what is cheaper. For you everything is "damn cheap."

Harikeśa: The Rādhā-Dāmodara party has very good prasādam program. This halavā they make every morning—everyone is fully satisfied.

Prabhupāda: They are sane men.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Every morning we have...

Prabhupāda: So why do they not follow your principle?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ah, it's very... And the devotees love it. Every day, Prabhupāda, we...

Prabhupāda: No, every temple give them example, invite them in your prasādam.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That's what I'm going to do today.

Harikeśa: I noticed the devotees would wait for prasādam with great...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is nice. It requires good leader, that's all. (break) ...Kṛṣṇa we must prepare very first-class foodstuff, and where is the complaint if it is first class?

Morning Walk -- July 2, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Outer senses, what do you mean by outer senses-dead?

Devotee (2): His bodily senses.

Prabhupāda: There is no question of outer senses. Senses purified. What do you mean by outer senses?

Devotee (2): The senses with which you perceive the outer gross...

Prabhupāda: That always remains. But when it is not purified, you perceive material things. When it is purified, you perceive spiritual things.

Devotee (2): So the same gross senses will be able to see spiritual things.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is purified. Bhakti is the purifying process. I have already said. Not that the eyes are suffering from cataract disease, "Pluck out." That is Māyāvādī philosophy.

Devotee (2): What does that mean, then, when the yogis withdraw their senses from the objects like it says like the tortoise withdraws his limbs within the shell? What does that refer to then?

Prabhupāda: Hm? What is that? I do not follow.

Brahmānanda: He asks, in the yoga system...

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Mayor: No, material things should not be.

Prabhupāda: They are missing the aim of life. That is the... The aim of life is, an..., not according to Vedic, but anyone, the aim of life is how to realize God. That is aim. In the animal life or in other lives less important than the human being there is no question of God realization. In the human life, the civilized human life, there is religion. It doesn't matter whether one is Christian or a Hindu or a Muslim or a Buddhist. These are the principle religions of the world. So any civilized man must be inquisitive to know what is the original source of everything. That philosophy is there. It is called Brahma-sūtra or Vedānta-sūtra. Perhaps you have heard the name, Vedānta philosophy. Veda means knowledge, and anta means end. In the materialistic way of knowledge they did not find any end, and they accept it "That this is progress." But one must come to the end of the knowledge, what is the ultimate knowledge. So generally they are missing what is the ultimate knowledge. We are searching after knowledge in so many ways but what is the ultimate knowledge? The ultimate knowledge, Vedānta, means end of knowledge. End of knowledge means to understand the original source of everything. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The human inquisitiveness should be up to that point, what is the origin of everything. Because human life is not a spot. That... The western people are lacking that understanding. We are thinking that this duration of life, say, for fifty to a hundred years, that is all. No. That is the first instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, that this body is not everything. We have to accept another body after death. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). As we are accepting different bodies in our this span of life from childhood to boyhood, from boyhood to youthhood, from youthhood to old age... So this is the example. And after this old age, after this body is useless, then I accept another body. And again another chapter of life begins. And on my next life, next body I am creating, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya, infection. Just like if I infect some disease, I am creating that disease. If I infect smallpox disease, then I must develop that disease. How it is, subtle way, working, that we cannot see. But if somewhere I have infected some disease, somewhere it will be manifest. It will manifest. You cannot check it. So in this material world there are three qualities: goodness, passion, and ignorance. So as we associate, we develop a type of body. So these crimes means they do not get good association. Naturally they are developing. And now these boys, they are also Americans and Europeans. They are getting good association, and they are becoming free from all bad habits. We generally take bad character on the basis of illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: That is the defect. We have no idea who is first-class man. Everyone is drunkard, everyone smoker, everyone is gambler, everyone is illicit sex, where is first-class man? So in the absence of first-class man there must be criminals. Aiye. So there is a need of first-class men, first-class men and second-class men. Third-class, fourth-class, fifth-class, they are automatically there. So at the present moment fourth-class, fifth-class men. Third-class is also very scarcely found, and there is no question of first-class, second-class. But as in the full body we require brain, we require arm, we require belly, we require leg... Everything is required for different purposes of work. But at the present moment there is no place for the first-class men. When we ask our students that "You become free from all these four classes of sinful activity: no illicit sex, no meat-eating," people laugh: "Oh, why you are asking?" They do not know what is the ideal man. They think, "Illicit sex, what is wrong there? Meat-eating, what is wrong there?" They do not know what is right and wrong. Therefore all fourth-class men. They cannot understand even what is the value of these things. So you cannot be happy with fourth-class men. At least there must be a section, first-class men. That we are trying to create, a first-class man from this Gurukula.

Mrs. Wax: The ten-year-old boys who left Gurukula and went to Vṛndāvana and then went to Māyāpur, what will they...? They will be trained in the divisions there and come back?

Prabhupāda: No, that is the ideal, mind completely controlled, senses completely controlled, truthful and simple life. In this way they will be trained up gradually. And we have got one hundred books like that. If they read all these books and if they are trained up in their character, then they will be, in future, first-class men.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Give them prasādam. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Guest (Indian man): How do you advise Indians who are here and who have fallen to some extent in the materialistic world? They did not leave... Basically, they left their homes, most of them, to educate themselves. When they came here, they educated themselves, and they don't want to go back. Basically, they have fallen into the materialistic world. What advice you render them so that they get out of these clutches and go back and serve here or in the country but they should be devotional to the Almighty God?

Prabhupāda: So there is no question of here and there. You can become advanced in spiritual life anywhere if you follow the principles. That we are teaching. We are opening centers all over the world. You take the advantage of our teaching, our books, our center. Then it will be all right. They are following, these Europeans and American boys. They are young boys. They are giving up meat-eating. Do you give up meat-eating? Why Indians, you should learn meat-eating? They are giving up, and you are learning to eat meat. This is the lesson, that these foreigners, they were accustomed to eat meat from the childhood, they are giving up, and you are eating meat. This is the instruction. Indians are drinking. They are giving up drinking. The lessons are already there. There is no question why. The lessons are already there, books are already there, the centers are already there. You learn and make your life purified. Where is the difficulty? There is no difficulty. When we say, "No meat-eating," it is meant for everyone. Anyone who wants to become first-class man, it is necessary for him. And there is no question of Indian, European, American. You are committing so many sinful lives, and you want to become happy—that is not possible. Now this paper Time is puzzled: "Crime and What to Do?" But they do not know... (break)

Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: God is complete and His arrangement is also very complete. Everyone has his necessities of life completely. In the Vedas it is said that we are all living entities. God is also the chief living entity. The difference is that that one God, eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān, He supplies the necessities of all other living entities. In the Christian world also, they believe God gives bread to everyone, and they go to the church, "O God, give us our daily bread." But higher philosophy is that we should not or we need not ask God for our bread. That is already there. We should approach God, how to love Him. That is our business. Otherwise, God is supplying food to the elephant who can eat forty kilogram at a time, or forty kg. And the ant eats only one grain of sugar. So God is supplying all of them. So there is no question of asking God to give us our food. It is already there. We should not waste our time to ask God for our sense gratification. That arrangement is already there. We shall try to know God and try to love Him. That is the business of human form of life. If we are missing that occupational duty, how to learn how to love God... Our philosophy... Or this is the philosophy, that that is the first quality religious system which teaches how to love God. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). And if we learn how to love God without any motive, nobody can check our love of God. And if we reach that platform, then we become actually happy. God is the supreme proprietor of everything, He is friend of everyone, and He is the enjoyer. We, being part and parcel of God, our duty is to serve God how He is pleased. Our... Just like part and parcel of our body, this finger, it is always engaged in serving the body according to the desire of the person. Similarly, we being part and parcel of God, our duty is to serve God as He wants service from us. This is perfection. If the finger or any part of my body cannot give service to the whole body, it is to be understood that the part is diseased. Similarly, when we do not give service to God, that is our material condition, or diseased condition, or miserable condition. And if we learn how to love God, how to serve Him, that is our healthy condition. So in the material world everyone is busy how to satisfy the senses. Nobody is interested to satisfy God. So in this condition of life we are misled, misled in this way, that we have got this human form of body, very nice body, and if we are misled, instead of giving service to the Lord, if we simply are engaged in the service of the senses, then we become subject to the karma or fruitive activities.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Prabhupāda is giving you the same knowledge, that's all. There is no question of cheating. I have received this knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, and you take this. That's all. My business is finished.

Kīrtanānanda: Things equal to the same thing are equal to each other.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the duty. Paramparā system means the spiritual master shall not give anything which is not spoken by Kṛṣṇa. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa: "You become guru under My order." "But I do not know anything nicely, how can I become guru?" "No, you have no botheration. You simply take Kṛṣṇa's word and say, and you become guru."

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Spiritual paths are divided into four. Not spiritual. Real spiritual, mixed spiritual. Just like this, "God, give us our daily bread." It is mixed spiritual. One has approached God, God is spiritual, but one is asking for material profit. So this is mixture, matter and spirit. So there are four classes generally known as karmī, fruitive actors, they work for getting some material profit. They are called karmī. Just like all men, you will see, they are working so hard day and night, driving their cars, (makes noise of cars) this way and that way. The purpose is how to get some money. This is called karmī. And then jñānī. Jñānī means he knows that "I am working so hard. Why? The birds, beasts, the elephants, big, big..., eight million different types of..., they are not. They have no business. They have no profession. How they are eating? So why unnecessarily I work so much? Let me know what is the problem of life." So they understand the problem of life is birth, death, old age and disease. And they want to solve it, how to become immortal. So they have conclusion that "If I merge into God's existence, then I become immortal or immune from birth, death, old age and disease." This is called jñānī. And some of them are yogis. They try to acquire some spiritual power to make a show how he can play wonder. A yogi can become very small. If you put him in a room, he will come out. You lock it. He will come out. If there is little space, he will come out. That is called anima. He can fly in the sky, float in the sky. That is called laghima. In this way, if somebody can show this magic, then immediately he is accepted as very wonderful man. So yogis, they... The modern yogis, they simply show some gymnastic, but they have no power. So I am not speaking of these third-class yogis. Real yogi means he has got some power. That is material power. So yogis also want this power. And jñānīs also want salvation from the unnecessary working like ass, the karmī. And karmīs want material profit. So they want, everyone. But the bhaktas, devotees, they don't want anything. They want to serve God out of love. Just like a mother loves her child. There is no question of profit. Out of affection, she loves. So when you come to that stage, to love God, that is perfection. So these different processes, karmī, jñānī, yogi and bhakta, out of these four processes, if you want to know God, then you have to accept this bhakti. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). "Simply through the process of bhakti, one can understand Me, God." He never says by other processes, no. Only through bhakti. So if you are interested to know God and love Him, then you have to accept this devotional process. No other process will help you.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: So nobody is against you? Do you think nobody is against you? I am asking you.

Sandy Nixon: Do I think nobody is against me? Oh, sure, there's people for me, against me, that don't care about me.

Prabhupāda: So there are against and for. Why do you bother about the against? As there are some people against us, there are many people for us. So that is the position in every field of activity. So if somebody is against us, why should we bother about it. We are selling books daily, a huge amount. So there is no question of against us. Anyone who is even against us, he is persuaded to purchase one book. So how he is against us? He is purchasing our book. What is the daily amount of sales, our books?

Jayatīrtha: We sell about twenty-five thousand books and magazines a day.

Prabhupāda: What is the price?

Jayatīrtha: The collection would probably be around 35 to forty thousand dollars a day.

Prabhupāda: We are collecting forty thousand dollars a day by selling books. How I can say they are against us?

Sandy Nixon: You're very positive. I like that.

Prabhupāda: Where is the any other institution who can sell forty thousand dollars a day? So how do you say that they are against us?

Sandy Nixon: My last question. Could you tell me about the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra because it's so important to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And I'd like to have...

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: That is the word, puruṣottama. Puruṣottama means supreme or superior. So there must be inferior, otherwise, how he is superior? Is it not?

Prof. Hopkins: Hm.

Prabhupāda: As soon as he is the superior, professor, or the, what is called? Junior or senior. As soon as called senior, there must be junior. Without junior there is no question of senior.

Prof. Hopkins: So that the Puruṣottama always stands beyond, always, is other, in addition to be in also everything that there is.

Prabhupāda: Unless He is eternally there, then how the devotee will eternally, nitya-yukta upāsana, whom to worship? Nitya-yukta upāsana. Unless Puruṣottama is everlasting Puruṣottama then where is the question of worship everlasting? So the Māyāvādīs, they do not understand.

Prof. Hopkins: Well, would you... Do you equate then the impersonalists and the Māyāvādīs? Are they the same?

Prabhupāda: Almost the same.

Prof. Hopkins: At some point I guess they would have to be almost.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Prof. Hopkins: At some point I suppose they would almost have to be because to be an impersonalist you would have to deny the ultimate reality of phenomenon, which would make you a Māyāvādī.

Prabhupāda: They accept this form of God as māyā. Therefore we call them Māyāvādī.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: That is ajñāna. As soon as he, "may be," that means ajñāna.

Devotee (4): So that's why we originally fell down?

Prabhupāda: Knowledge must be solid. There is no question "of maybe," no. Just like if you touch fire, there is no question of "maybe." It must burn you. You may think, "It may not burn," but that is your foolishness.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: So they think that they can enjoy material nature but not be implicated.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not implicated. He is already implicated. There is no question of maybe. Must.

Devotee (5):. So when we fell down from the spiritual world...

Prabhupāda: Then you must suffer. There is no question, "maybe."

Devotee (5): When we fell down we were thinking, we could enjoy like that, in the same way?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is foolishness. And we are making our plan how to enjoy. That is our foolishness. And Kṛṣṇa says "You give up all these nonsense plans. Come to Me."

Devotee (5): Is this example proper, that a son is being well taken care of by the father, but sometimes he's thinking, "I can enjoy more some other way?"

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Therefore in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said that viśvāsa śabde śudṛdha niścaya. Śudṛdha niścaya, kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya. Śraddhā, śraddhā. Śraddhā means faith. So in Christian science also, there is state, faithful. So this faith may be blind, but that is required.

Paramahaṁsa: Like a child.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śraddha-śabde viśvāsa. Śraddhā, faith, means believing firmly. That is śraddhā, or faith. There is no question, "Yes." Śraddha-śabde viśvāsa. Therefore we have to believe in the Vedas. Vedas also says like that. That example I give sometimes, that cow dung is stool. In one place it is said stool is impure; in another place it is said cow dung is pure. Now, one may argue, "What is this, contradiction?" But you have to believe it. That is Veda. And that is actually being done. So without faith, you cannot make advance. The skeptics, they have no faith. Therefore they are lost. You must have faith.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? What is that ingredient or what is that thing which causes faith to develop in one? From someone becoming...

Prabhupāda: Purity. Purity. The more you become pure, the faith is firm.

Nārāyaṇa: So faith comes from previous pious activities?

Prabhupāda: No, may not be previous activity. You believe the authority, spiritual master.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That comes from purity, faith.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Little faith... Therefore you associate. Just like we are inviting this morning lecture. Coming, coming, coming, coming-faith will come.

Yadubara: They will not come.

Prabhupāda: They will not come. Then he is condemned. Let them remain animals. If you don't go to school, there is no question of education. Where is the question of education? One must go to the school with faith that "I will be educated." That is required.

Yadubara: But if they take some prasādam, that will help them?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is your mercy, that you are... He is faithless rascal. "All right, you take prasādam. That will help you." Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: You may be pleased to know that Karttikeya... He said he's looking forward to going to Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: Yes, otherwise why he is coming again? (chuckles) There must be some faith.

Sudāmā: I spoke with him the other day, and he said now he's getting a degree, but now he does not know what to do with it. So he sees that all of his activity of going to school and getting degrees is useless waste of time if there's no connection with Kṛṣṇa.

Citsukhānanda: Actually, nobody could leave your lotus feet, Prabhupāda. Once they've come and tasted this bliss of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, nobody could leave. Everyone comes back. Sometimes we become confused a little, but nobody can leave you.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayādvaita: And if we have faith in what the guru says, then automatically we'll do that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. My Guru Mahārāja passed in 1936, and I started this movement in 1965, thirty years after. Then? I am getting the mercy of guru. This is vāṇī. Even the guru is not physically present, if you follow the vāṇī, then you are getting help.

Sudāmā: So there's no question of ever separation as long as the disciple follows the instruction of guru.

Prabhupāda: No. Cakhu-dān dilo jei... What is that, next one?

Sudāmā: Cakhu-dān dilo jei, janme janme prabhu sei.

Prabhupāda: Janme janme prabhu sei. So where there is separation? Who has opened your eyes, he is birth after birth your prabhu.

Paramahaṁsa: You never feel any intense separation from your spiritual master?

Prabhupāda: That you do not require to question. (end)

Morning Walk -- July 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...sataḥ syāt. This frightfulness is due to unawareness of God. The more one is unaware of God, he is more frightened. One who is fully conscious of God, he is not frightened because he knows, "Everything is God. Why shall I afraid?"

Paramahaṁsa: Even death.

Prabhupāda: Death is already declared that "I am death." Kṛṣṇa says. So there is no question of.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a description in the Bhāgavatam of Dhruva Mahārāja when he's fighting all of those demons, that he wasn't frightened at all.

Hrdayananda: So the devotee sees Kṛṣṇa in death also.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa is everything. Without Kṛṣṇa, there cannot be anything. Janmādyasya yataḥ. The example is given: Just like the rope. Somebody is taking it is snake. He is frightened. And one knows this is rope, he is not frightened. So actually the one thing—God is one—He is distributed in so many manifestations. So one realizes that it is God. By His energy He is manifested in so many forms. So why he should be frightened?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a uttama-adhikārī.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayādvaita: Now, in the modern days, they take it the other way, that "Everything is God, so I can do anything."

Prabhupāda: But you are not God. You are rascal. (laughter) That is Māyāvāda theory, that "Because God is everything, therefore I am God." That is Māyāvāda. Just like Vivekananda said, "Why you are finding out here and there God? Here is God, so many, on this street." That is his theory.

Morning Walk -- July 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Rādhāvallabha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Svarūpa Dāmodara's book he gave the example that "Why does the red apple fall off the tree but not the green apple?" So the scientists say that when the apple gets ripe, certain acids rise in the stem and weaken it and it falls off the tree. There's no need for God or anything like that. It's automatic.

Prabhupāda: No, no, there is no question of God, but with the gravitation why the green apple is not drawn downward?

Rādhāvallabha: Because the stem is very strong on a green apple, but on a red apple it is weak.

Prabhupāda: That means it is conditional; gravitation works on condition. It is not final. Under certain condition it works. Therefore, then you have to accept condition. Under such and such condition it falls.

Rādhāvallabha: So these conditions are being set up by nature. There is no need for a controller.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, you cannot say that gravitation draws things downward. If gravitation... You will find cloud, thousands of tons of water. Why it is not down? Cloud, why it does not come down?

Rādhāvallabha: Because it is in vapor form. It has not condensed yet.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, but it is weighty.

Rādhāvallabha: It is waiting for the proper temperature.

Prabhupāda: Then everything is conditional. Everything conditional.

Rādhāvallabha: So these conditions are part of nature.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: When you see Kṛṣṇa, you see Paramātmā, Brahman, everything. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). If you see... Just like when you see the sun, you see sunlight also. The sun... We see the sun globe, the sun light, simultaneously. Nobody says, "I am seeing the sun but not the sunshine." Is it? (laughter) He is seeing everything. He is seeing everything.

Devotee (3): But does he focus his mind upon the two-armed...?

Prabhupāda: There is no question of focus or no focus. One who sees Kṛṣṇa, he sees everything. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. There is no question of imagination. This is fact. What is that?

Satsvarūpa:

nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya
yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ
mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti
loko mām ajam avyayam
(BG 7.25)

"I am never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent."

Prabhupāda: Yes. One who is foolish, nonintelligent, he cannot see Kṛṣṇa. Means Kṛṣṇa does not reveal to him. They never see. Next?

Satsvarūpa: "For them I am covered by My eternal creative potency, yogamāyā, and so the deluded world knows Me not, who am unborn and infallible."

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: Curd. So curd you can send to the city. They will convert into sandeśa, rasagullā and other preparations, and ghee. That is being done. In India the villagers, they do that. They are, keep cows. Convert them into curd or ghee, and ghee and curd sent to the city, they have got regular price for that. There is no question of waste of milk at any stage. One must know how to do it. So you can keep as many cows as possible and collect as much milk from them. You can utilize. And if some of the villagers trained up, they can open nice restaurant in the city. Utilize the ghee, curd, for making nice confectionary. People will purchase like anything. Just like in our Rathayātrā festival, whatever sweets they prepared, all sold at good profit. Your countrymen, they did not see such nice things. And when they taste it—"Very nice."

Brahmānanda: They were selling one gulabjamin for seventy-five cents.

Prabhupāda: Just see. (laughs) It may cost two cent. And you have got your sugar also. In this way organize. Avoid machine. Keep everyone employed as brāhmaṇa, as kṣatriya, as vaiśya. Nobody should sit down. Brāhmaṇas, they are writers, editors, lecturers, instructors, worshiping Deity, ideal character. They have no anxiety for food, for clothing. Others should supply them. They haven't got to work. Sannyāsī is always preaching, going outside. In this way keep everyone fully engaged. Then it will be ideal. Otherwise people will criticize that we are simply eating and sleeping, escaping, so many, so many. And actually that is the position. Unless one is fully engaged, oh, that is not good. That is tamo-guṇa. Tamo-guṇa, and rajo-guṇa very active, and sattva-guṇa, intellectual activity. Both of them, active, only tamo-guṇa, not active. (indistinct) Tamo-guṇa means sleeping and laziness. These are the symptoms of tamo-guṇa. Every saintly man can avoid these two things—laziness and sleeping. Of course, as much you require, sleeping allowed, not more than... And keep everyone active, man or woman-all. Then it will be ideal society.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: Yes. He was therefore called king. But he was a vaiśya. He engaged his land for agriculture and cow keeping. And Kṛṣṇa took charge of the cows, the calves, although still calf, He, (indistinct) This is the system. He was going with the calves whole day, playing with the boys and taking care of the cows, in the evening come back. Mother then washes and bathes and gives nice food. And immediately goes to sleep. And Kṛṣṇa is clever. At night He goes to the gopīs. (laughter) Then Mother Yaśodā did not know, when she thought, "My good son is sleeping." And the gopīs also would come at a place and they'll dance. This is called life, childhood life. And when He was grown up, then He was brought to, I mean to say, Mathurā and He fought with His maternal uncle, killed him, and then His father Vasudeva, took care, sent Him to, what is that? Sāndīpani Muni. He was educated. He was learning every subject every day. Then He was taken to Dvārakā, married so many queens, and became king. In the Kṛṣṇa's life, He's always busy. Kṛṣṇa... You'll never find from the very beginning of His life He's busy killing Putana, Aghasura, Bakasura, and His friends, they are confident. They'll enter into the mouth of Aghasura. "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is there. He will kill." This is Vṛndāvana. There is no need and I don't find in Bhāgavata big factory and slaughterhouse, no. Nothing. The whole atmosphere is surcharged with sinful life. How people will be happy? Now they are coming to crimes and hippies and so many things, problems, diplomacy, CIA and what other? So many unnecessary waste of energy, time, and money. Vicious condition. Better give up city. Make Vṛndāvana, like this. City life is abominable. If you don't live in the city, you don't require petrol, motor car. It is no use. They may criticize that "You are going to the farm in a car." So for the time being, there is no vehicle. Otherwise bullock cart—where is the difficulty? Suppose you are coming, one hour, and it takes one day. And if you are satisfied, such life, there is no question of moving. Maybe local moving, from this village to that village. That is sufficient, bullock carts. Why motor car? Drive here and park problem. Not only park problem, there are so many things. There are three thousand parts, motor car. You have to produce them, big factory.

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1975, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That is their ignorance. They do not know what is respons...

Mādhavānanda: They would say that so many may have taken God realization as responsibility, following some Christ... church or something like that, but they are also frustrated.

Prabhupāda: We are not frustrated. Eh? We are not frustrated. Are we frustrated? Then? How the rascal says, "frustrated"? If you take false thing, then you will be frustrated. If you take real path of God realization, there is no question of frustration. It is ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam, increasing pleasure, no frustration.

Mādhavānanda: Then they say that no one has real information of God.

Prabhupāda: You have no, rascal, because you are rascal. I have got. You just wash my feet, and I will inform you.

Devotees: Jaya. Haribol. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...not know how to swim; that does not mean I do not. Is it a very honest statement? Oh, nobody can swim because he does not know. But if anyone knows how to swim, then why do you say that no one has done? You do not know. You accept that.

Mādhavānanda: Everyone thinks in terms of their own relative position.

Morning Walk -- September 6, 1975, Vrndavana:

Dhanañjaya: ...without referring to the Vedic philosophy.

Prabhupāda: The solution is there. Take it. Take Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Dhanañjaya: They're so much implicated by sex life.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Gradually they'll become ... understand that this is not good. Therefore gṛhastha āśrama is allowed under rules and regulation. The purpose is to restrict sex life.

Brahmānanda: The wife of the President, she recently said that sex life before marriage is good because it will reduce the divorce rate.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If everyone is prostitute then where is the question of divorce? (laughter)

Nitāi: There's also no question of marriage.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And that is going on. (end)

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Dhṛṣṭaketu: So although we can't see it with our material eyes, their position is very precarious.

Prabhupāda: We have no eyes to see. We see through Kṛṣṇa. As Kṛṣṇa sees, we see. This is Kṛṣṇa conscious. We are not perfect. Our position is that we are not perfect. But we are perfect so long we follow Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Just like I am blind man. I am not perfect. But if you have got eyes, if you take me I follow you. Then I am perfect. Kṛṣṇa assures that "You surrender to Me and I will make you free from all dangers," and we accept Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Our method is very easy. The child is walking, unable to walk, falling down. The parents say, father says, "My dear child, just catch my hand." Then he's safe. These Māyāvādīs, they go against the verdict of God. God says that "The living entities are My part and parcel," and they say, "I am God." So that is their foolishness. Part and parcel... Kṛṣṇa says, mamaivaṁso jīva-bhutaḥ (BG 15.7). Otherwise why God says, "Surrender unto Me," if you are equal with Him? Why God is asking, "Surrender unto Me"? You are not equal. You are rascal. You are claiming that "I am equal." Otherwise there is no question of surrender. "You surrender unto Me." And this knowledge of surrender comes, Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām: "This rascal is always thinking 'I am God, God, God.' This rascaldom is finished after many, many births, this ignorance." Then he surrenders. How the living entity is equal with God?

Brahmānanda: Return?

Dhṛṣṭaketu: Of course, they may say that "Kṛṣṇa is just an ordinary man like me and therefore He is asking..."

Prabhupāda: Therefore you are rascal. Kṛṣṇa is ordinary man, and He is lifting the hill.

Brahmānanda: Well, that's just a story in a book.

Prabhupāda: He may be story for you. You may not believe that you have got a father but we are not mad. You can say, "To have a father is a story," but mother says, "No, you have your father." She is authority. You can say, "Oh, it is story."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They want historical evidence for everything.

Morning Walk -- September 15, 1975, Vrndavana:

Dhṛṣṭaketu: And if he's not feeling increased ecstasy, then he should try to change his position or try to perform...

Prabhupāda: No. There is no change of position. Position is the same.

Dhṛṣṭaketu: Because once this question was asked that... In class a devotee asked that "I'm losing my taste for serving the Deity, and I don't know what to do," and so they asked this question. So...

Prabhupāda: He can chant. There is no question of "I am losing interest." If he is actually following the rules and regulations, there is no question of losing interest.

Hari-śauri: There is never any decrease.

Dhṛṣṭaketu: You mean if one simply follows everything that is outlined in the temple schedule and...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That should be strictly followed.

Dhṛṣṭaketu: Then his feeling will gradually develop. He'll gradually develop love then.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt tato niṣṭhā. If his anartha is decreased, then he becomes firmly fixed up. There is no question of decreasing. (end)

Morning Walk -- September 26, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: Wherefrom the light is coming? From the sun. But you see the sun has form. So from the form the light is coming. So the light is sarva-vyāpaka

Indian man (3): If it is sarva-vyāpaka...

Prabhupāda: Let me finish. Light is sarva-vyāpaka.

Indian man (3): But if there is some obstruction, then it cannot...

Prabhupāda: We have no question of obstruction. Even there is obstruction...

Indian man (2): Obstruction will be by you only.

Indian man (3): Not by me only. (laughter) No, not by me.

Indian man (2): What is the independence mean? You can go up to Him.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Light is there. If you close your eyes there is no light. That is another thing. But light is there. Everyone understand now it is day.

Indian man (3): That light is from God.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian man (3): Sun has no...

Indian man (2): Let him finish.

Morning Walk -- September 29, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: No, that we shall consider. First of all we have to see that I learn that my position is na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So why I am put into this body which is hanyamāna? (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Yes. (Hindi) They want to remain in darkness, and any leader who will keep him in the darkness in flowery language, he will be welcomed: "Oh, he is very good leader." "And this man is very conservative: 'Don't do this, don't do this, don't do this.' " So here is freedom. "Whatever you like, you do"—here is freedom. If this rascal does not do what you do and you go to hell, that is their business. Kṛṣṇa therefore says, "You rascal, where is your freedom?" Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). First of all you see. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. So where is your freedom? First of all get out of these things; then question of freedom. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam. This is your knowledge, that "Where is my freedom? If I am under the rules and regulation of janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi, then where is my freedom?" (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Simply rubber-stamped freedom will help me? Suppose I was dependent on British rule, and now I have become free. So will this help me to get freedom from janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi? Then where is my freedom? What are major questions, they have set aside. "Don't discuss all these things, and bother your head with trifle things." And our philosophy is that "Don't bother with these trifle things. Just seriously think of the major problems." This is our philosophy. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Teṣām ahaṁ samuddhartā mṛtyu-saṁsāra-sāgarāt (BG 12.7). Samuddahartā, just to deliver them from this ocean of mṛtyu-saṁsāra. That is not care. Real freedom is given by him—that you don't care. (break) ...will be given by Kṛṣṇa. This is no freedom. Here the so-called freedom-giver, he has no freedom. And what he will give, freedom? Gandhiji preached so much about nonviolence, and nonviolence said, "All right, you have no freedom from nonviolence. You die." (Hindi) (break) ...is there, there is no question of freedom. (end)

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Cyavana: From the hills, from these mountains. There are lakes and reservoirs and it comes down. There's a lot of rainfall on certain parts of the island all year.

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were speaking of anarthas and one of the lesser age boys was wondering... He's asking why we shouldn't take tea.

Prabhupāda: Because intoxication. You become addicted. You are asking because you cannot give up tea. Therefore you are asking. Therefore it should be given up. You become servant of tea. Otherwise there is no question of asking. His asking means you want to drink. That means he has become servant of tea. Our original position—we are servant of God. So we are going to be servant of God. So if we remain servant of this material world, we cannot become servant of God. (break) ...unnecessary are advertised and people become victimized.

Indian: We are putting our posters here all round and they down immediately. Simply they want advertisement of this. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...because they are envious. When they advertise all kinds of nonsense they don't mind getting cheated. But something nice, they are envious of it.

Prabhupāda: Accha bole tomare lagdha, suta jagat murare.(?) You give me that chewra and milk and banana, nothing else. (break) ...and so much useless labor for growing tea, that will be stopped. You can grow food. (break) You drink tea, you'll require sugar. Then unnecessarily producing so much sugarcane. And the by-product of sugarcane, molasses, you'll have to utilize. Then produce wine, liquor. One after another.

Indian man (3): But our country depends upon sugar.

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Soul, your... It will take many millions of years to understand soul, but this is your position; you understand it, that you'll be kicked out at any moment. Why don't you understand this? There is no question of understanding soul. That is far away. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes over pay, that they're not getting enough money, they will riot. And the white policemen, they come and shoot them.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Simply shoot them.

Prabhupāda: Shoot.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Kill them.

Prabhupāda: Hm. They are keeping them in control. That is the way they should be kept in control, śūdras. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...very anti-Communist. They have an anti-Communist terrorism act. Anyone who is too much leading in their Communist ideas, they put them away. They have an island called Robert's Island. They simply detain them there indefinitely. (break) Very stable. Very stable.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. That is nice.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They don't have a welfare state here.

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: That is their only asset. And when they are kicked out by the cannon of nature, they tolerate. That's all. They are showing their cannon, but ask them, "Can you defend yourself from the cannon of nature when he kicks out, 'Get out'?" You may be very big commander and captain or leader, but when death comes can you avoid it? Then what is your leadership? What will your cannon do? You kill nature by your cannon and live. That you cannot do. Then where is the value of your cannon? Eh? Why you are so much proud of showing your cannon? What you can do with this cannon?

Devotee (2): They know how to destroy everything, but they can't create anything nice.

Prabhupāda: No question of creating. They have destroyed themselves. Save yourself from destruction. Then you talk of destruction. You destroy. That's all right. But you will be destroyed by some other greater power. What you are going to do that? What you have done for that purpose? You destroy. That is going on, nature's way. I am killing somebody, somebody is killing me. That is nature's way. So what is your special credit? There is no credit. There is no credit. You save yourself not to be destroyed by others. "I can destroy others but nobody can destroy me"—that Hiraṇyakaśipu tried. But that is not possible. Ultimately he was destroyed. That's all.

Devotee (2): They don't seem to care too much about the future.

Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. Therefore we call them rascals. Therefore we have given this position, rascal, that's all. Talk too much, do nothing—that is rascal. (bugles sound in background) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa... Hm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This old fort? This is actually called "Old Fort" isn't it? This part is built around a commemoration to a very old military fort. British.

Prabhupāda: Where is that fort?

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: No, no. I am not talking of religion. I am talking of science. Religion is a kind of faith. You may be believe or you may not believe.

Indian man (2): No. There is no question of belief. The question is whether, what is the difference between religion and science? If difference is known, then the learned persons(?) can make him right or wrong at that time, but unless and until the demarcation of line between religion and science...

Prabhupāda: Now... Yes, that we can say like this, that "two plus two equal to four"—this is applicable to the Hindus, Muslim, Christian, everyone. This is science.

Professor: Yes. No, no, I understand. I understand. I know where your argument is going to. But any case, let us beg to differ. Because... Let us accept it. I just want to say I agree with you in this sense. I agree with you in this sense, Swami, that if we do not pay attention to the religious side, then we keep the people in darkness. We have to, on the religious side too. (someone entering) Professor Olivier, the rector. (introducing) ...And this is our Swami Bhaktivedanta.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The principal of the university, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Hare Kṛṣṇa. How are you?

Professor: And Mister (indistinct) Singh from Pietermaritzburg, and Professor Maharaj you know. And all the other ladies and gentlemen.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Would you like to sit beside Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prof. Olivier: And this is what we have to rediscover and work at.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That I want. Without science, simply sentiment will not help you.

Prof. Olivier: That's right. Sentimentality...

Prabhupāda: "I believe; you believe..." You may believe something, I may believe something, but everything should be on the scientific basis. That is wanted. So unless we understand this point, that "I am not this body; I am something else than the body," there is no question of spiritual education.

Prof. Olivier: Then it becomes sentimentality.

Prabhupāda: Sentimentality.

Prof. Olivier: Love without honesty, without scientific honesty. Love without scientific honesty is sentimentality. Similarly, honesty without caring and love is cruelty.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Thank you very much. (end)

Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Inward means that you are spirit soul; you are not this body. But if you keep your bodily concept of life, then where is inward? It is outward only.

Faill: It's just another way of looking out.

Prabhupāda: No. That means it is simply talking. It has no realization. Unless you understand that you are not this body—you are spirit soul—there is no question of inward. That we have to study first of all, whether I am this body, or I am something within this body. That is inward. But that they do not understand. There is no education in the school, college or university. Everyone is thinking "I am this body." You see? Just like in this country, everywhere: "We are South African. They are Indian. They are this. They are this. They are this." So whole bodily concept, the whole world... "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am German." So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means it starts when one is above the bodily conception of life. Then the starting begins.

Faill: So the recognition of the spark comes first.

Prabhupāda: Ha. Recognition of the spirit soul within this body, that is first education. Unless one understands this simple fact, there is no question of spiritual advancement.

Faill: Is it a question of just understanding it?

Prabhupāda: Yes. For the time, in the beginning, first of all theoretical, theoretical.

Faill: Intellectually accept it.

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Nothing happens accidentally. According to Vedic literature, there is no such word as "accident." The word is adṛṣṭa: There is cause; I cannot see it. Adṛṣṭa. It is not in my vision, but there is cause. There is no question of accident.

Harikeśa: What about when somebody is born with three arms or eight toes?

Prabhupāda: There is karma, cause, but I cannot ascertain. To me the cause is invisible. Therefore, we take adṛṣṭa. But there is cause.

Harikeśa: They always reason that because somebody is born like that, that sometimes somebody could be born from an ape like a man.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Harikeśa: Over a very long period of time... Let's say in one ape somebody was born without hair, and then after a long period of time in the same line from that person who was born without hair...

Prabhupāda: But why the ape does not give birth now?

Harikeśa: But we have not seen all the apes.

Prabhupāda: But how do you suggest?

Harikeśa: It's just a theory.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: So similarly, they are keeping men as dogs, and they want peace. How it is possible? They are educating general mass of people like cats and dogs, and they want peace. How it is possible? Make them first of all sober men. Then there is question of peace. (break) ...God consciousness, there is no question of peace. (break) If we know that the Supreme Lord, God, is our father, and He has..., everything belongs to Him, His property; therefore, instead of fighting, let us enjoy father's property peacefully. Then there will be peace. We are peacefully walking in this park because we know that it is commonwealth; it is government's property. I can walk, and the dog can also walk. Then there will be peace. And if I think, "No, it is my property," and you think your property, then there will be fight between you and me. So where is peace? Why you claim South Africa as your property? You are foreigner. You want peace. You are expert in keeping them subdued, the Africans. Otherwise, lawfully, it is African property. Why you have taken? Either you make it God's property, otherwise make it African property. You have no right to come here. If you say God's property, then everyone has got equal right. So they do not know what is the meaning of peace.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: If nothing is our property—in fact, everything is Kṛṣṇa's property—why is there this desire to possess so many things?

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Harikeśa: ...so you can see what kind of quality they have.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Take "everyone is rascal," then train them. That is wanted. Take everyone as rascal. There is no question that "Here is intelligent man, here is rascal, here is the..." No. First of all take them all rascals, and then train them. That is wanted. That is wanted now. At the present moment the whole world is full of rascals. Now, if they take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, select amongst them. Just like I am training. You are brāhmaṇa by training. So one who is prepared to be trained as brāhmaṇa, classify him in the brāhmaṇa. One is trained up as kṣatriya, classify him. In this way, cātur-varṇyaṁ māyā sṛṣ...

Harikeśa: And that kṣatriya would engage everyone basically as śūdra and then pick from them.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Harikeśa: He would initially pick...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. You pick up... You take the whole mass of people as śūdra. Then...

Harikeśa: Pick out.

Prabhupāda: Pick out. And rest, who is neither brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśya, then he is śūdra. That's all, very easy thing. If he cannot be trained up as engineer, then he remains as a common man. There is no force. This is the way of organizing society. There is no force. Śūdra is also required.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Pick out. And rest, who is neither brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśya, then he is śūdra. That's all, very easy thing. If he cannot be trained up as engineer, then he remains as a common man. There is no force. This is the way of organizing society. There is no force. Śūdra is also required.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Now the incentive in modern society to become educated or to become engineer is money. What is the incentive in Vedic culture?

Prabhupāda: There is no need of money. The brāhmaṇa teaches everything free of charge. There is no question of money. Anyone can take education as a brāhmaṇa or a kṣatriya, as a vaiśya. There is no... Vaiśya doesn't require any education. Kṣatriyas require little. Brāhmaṇa require. But that is free. Just find out a brāhmaṇa guru and he will give you free education. That's all. This is society. Now, as soon as... At the present moment, as soon as one wants to be educated, he requires money. But in the Vedic society there is no question of money. Education free.

Harikeśa: So the incentive is the happiness in society?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is... Everyone is hankering after: "Where is happiness?" This will be the happiness. When people will be peaceful, happy in their living condition, that will bring happiness, not by imagining that "If I have got a skyscraper building, I will be happy," and then jump over and commit suicide. That is going on. He is thinking that "If I have a skyscraper building, I will be happy," and when he is frustrated, he jumps down. That is going on. This is happiness. That means all rascals. They do not know what is happiness. Therefore everyone requires guidance from Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now you were saying that there is high rate of suicide here?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And still there is suicide. Why? Every man is rich man, and why he is committing suicide? Hm? Can you reply?

Devotee (1): They lack central happiness?

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no happiness. (pause) Nobody can remain lazy, because he will be hungry. So how he will remain lazy? He'll have to go somewhere, begging food, and he'll say, "First of all work. Then get your food." He'll work. So there is no question of remaining lazy. Just like the hippies. They do not work, but when they do not get food from anywhere, they go and work. Is it not? So he will be obliged to work.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That is the incentive, then.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (2): Some of them steal. Instead of working, they steal their food.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Steal... When he is arrested, then he has to work in the prison. That's all.

Harikeśa: Chopping rocks.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise whipping. In Bhagavad-gītā it is recommended that instead of keeping yourself lazy without working, better to steal. Better to steal.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How is that?

Prabhupāda: Huh? That is there. Stealing is bad work, bad work. It is also working, but bad work. So Kṛṣṇa recommends that instead of keeping yourself lazy, better do bad work.

Morning Walk -- October 17, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible. He must agree, "Yes." Therefore guru is required. Guru means, accept guru means, "Whatever you say, I will accept." That is guru. Otherwise friendly talk. Friendly talk will not do. To accept guru means "Now I accept you, guru, my instructor, without any argument," and that is acceptance. "Whatever you say, I shall do." That is agreement. Then he can be reformed. Śiṣyas te 'ha śādhi mā prapannam: "I surrender unto you. I become your disciple. Now you train me." Then he can be reformed. Otherwise not possible. (break)

Devotee: When we were at school we accept a teacher and he teaches us mathematics or something like this, but when it comes to spiritual life and we accept a guru, people criticize by saying, "Oh, you're not thinking for yourself anymore."

Prabhupāda: Yes, you have surrendered. You say, "Yes, we have surrendered. That is the way." Tad viddhi praṇipātena (BG 4.34). The first term is "surrender," praṇipāta. Otherwise it is not possible. If one does not surrender, there is no question of reformation. He must voluntarily surrender: "Yes. Whatever you say, I shall do." Then things can be advanced. Otherwise not possible. (end)

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We see practically that only the devotees are somewhat free from anxiety.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact. We have little anxieties simply because we have to deal with this rascal world. Otherwise we have no anxiety. But we have taken this mission, to go and approach them, tell them the truth. Therefore we have got little anxiety. Otherwise there is no question of anxiety. Because we are mixing with these rascals—and we have to do that, who have taken this mission-therefore little anxiety there. That is also not very much. But you must know, the whole world is full of rascals and fools. That is not exaggeration. Eh? Or you have got different opinion?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: Hm? What do you think? Do you agree?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They are mūḍhas.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Our verdict is final: "All rascals and fools." Therefore, when I ask these rascals, "Any question?" Stopped. (laughter) "Come on, any question?" What they will question? I challenge them, "Any question?" They know that "We have been proved as rascals." Yesterday, last night, I told that the aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś: (BG 2.11) "This is the position of everyone. Everyone is fool, rascal. He does not know what is the real problem of life." Nobody said that "Why you are calling everyone rascals?" In Montreal some Bengali gentleman said, "Swamiji, you are using very strong word, 'fools and rascals.' Can it be explained otherwise?" And "No, this is the only word, that you are all rascals and fools. This is the only word to be used." (laughter)

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: What scripture you are... Bible?

Guest: Well, the Bible. But we only know the Bible as we've been told it, and it's been told to us by unrealized men, and we ended up being virtually atheistically inclined, until that led to...

Prabhupāda: So in Bible what is the conception of God?

Guest: It's very unclear.

Prabhupāda: That I was speaking. In every religion...

Woman: To identify with it.

Prabhupāda: There is no clear conception.

Guest: That's right. And I think this is the reason that leads you away. We've been led away from the Bible because of that. There is nothing clear, and everybody who has read it to us has read it to us in a different way. But I would say that the finest book we have read is Bhagavad-gītā. There's no question. (end)

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Cellulose, covering? It is just like cellulose. And put underneath the incubator and get. Then we shall accept you. Why not ask all these rascals all over the world?

Brahmānanda: One thing the egg has, the egg has... It's red because there is blood there for nourishment. And they cannot even produce blood.

Prabhupāda: Take blood from the slaughterhouse and put it. If blood is necessary, the tons of blood available. You take it and put it here. That is also another chemical. That's all. Why don't you do that? Little blood required, there is no question of manufacturing. You can get it from slaughterhouse, tons. Take little drops and put it. It is blood. Where is your science, nonsense? It is practical suggestion. Challenge then in big, big meeting. (break) ...past it was coming this side, and fifteen minutes, it has gone down. How many tons of water has gone down on this beach within fifteen minutes? Is there any scientist who can...?

Brahmānanda: They cannot control the water in that way. (Break) It's like there was a big valve, and someone has shut the valve...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: ...and so the water is getting less. It is controlled.

Prabhupāda: And who is controlling? It is not under my control. First time I wanted to go, I could not. But this time I can. So under whose control? It is my control or somebody else?

Brahmānanda: Well, they will say "automatic control."

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: This is right answer, that you cannot non-cooperate with the stomach. You must serve the stomach. Otherwise your position is very precarious. That is the answer. If the finger thinks that "I shall remain independent and be happy," that is not possible. The stomach must be supplied food, and then all the parts of the body, they'll be happy. That is the point. So you cannot non-cooperate with the stomach. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the central enjoyer. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He is the center. Just like ordinarily this African state, if you do not satisfy the state or the president, then you cannot remain happy. Independently you cannot be happy. We require in every step sta... We have come to this park because state is cooperating. In the morning we shall come, and they have prepared it nicely. We are not going to the jungle. So if we actually want happiness we must cooperate with the state. This is crude example. Similarly, if our ultimate aim is to become happy, then we must cooperate with Kṛṣṇa. This is obligatory. You cannot escape it. Then you'll be unhappy. This is the... Stomach. Pranopaharac ca yathendriyanam. Therefore the natural process is you pick up... A child even. He picks up some something, but he does not put anywhere—immediately in the mouth. Why he does not bring it in the ear? Why? The child immediately takes it. He does not know what is what. But the nature is that as soon as he captures something, even he does not know... Because his position is eating, he knows this much, sense gratification. Other senses are not yet developed. So the child, he knows taste with tongue and eats. That he knows. So immediately anything he captures, he brings to the mouth, naturally. He hasn't got to be educated. So our position is like that. We being part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, our natural tendency is to serve Kṛṣṇa. Natural tendency. It is not artificial. When you forget Kṛṣṇa, that is artificial. So our normal life means to love Kṛṣṇa, to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is our normal life. Without serving Kṛṣṇa our life is abnormal, madman's life. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says... When you forget Kṛṣṇa, He comes to preach the normal life. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). This is normal life. So Kṛṣṇa does not require your help. He can create many helpers. But for your good Kṛṣṇa comes, that "If you want normal, happy life, then surrender unto Me." This is the proposal. Therefore the whole Bhagavad-gītā, all Vedic knowledge, is there. We have forgotten our position. Our posit..., normal position, is to love and serve Kṛṣṇa. Therefore anādi bahir mukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gela ataeva kṛṣṇa veda purāṇa karila. Because we do not know... From time immemorial we cannot ascertain when this incidents have happened, to forget Kṛṣṇa, but it is practically... Life after life, life after life, we are changing body, but forgetting Kṛṣṇa. So here, in the human form of life, there is the opportunity to revive our original position, and we require the help of knowledge, perfect knowledge. And that is there in the Vedas. Atha eva kṛṣṇa veda purāṇa karila. If we don't take advantage, although we have got... We can read Bhagavad-gītā, and if we don't take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and go on whimsically, then we'll suffer. You cannot non-cooperate with Kṛṣṇa as you cannot non-cooperate with the stomach. This is the... You must. There is no question of alternative. You may, may not know. It is not. You must. This is the position. Otherwise you'll never be happy. And happiness is your aim of life. Atyantika-duḥkha-nivṛttiḥ. We are... I'm suffering from this knee's trouble because I am in this material world. I have got this material body. So atyantika-duḥkha-nivṛttiḥ means no more material world, no more material body. And for that purpose we have to cooperate with Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise it is not possible. Any question about this? Just like these African women. They are going to work. There is no question of no work. They must. Otherwise they cannot eat. Anyone, if by working his livelihood is going on, how he can non-cooperate? This is not possible.

Morning Walk -- November 1, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Surviving... So he is surviving, but the cause and effect is going on.

Jñāna: The scientists are saying the evolution of the body is purely by chance.

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. Therefore we call them stupid, rascals. There is no chance. Kāranaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya, Kṛṣṇa says, kāraṇam (BG 13.22). There is no question of chance. Kāranaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. Because you do not know how you are infecting... Just like you become all of a sudden attacked with cholera. You are thinking that it is by chance. It is not chance. Eh? What this medical man will... "It is chance." No. You infected somewhere. You do not know. And because you are foolish, you are taking it as chance. There is no question of chance.

Harikeśa: But it was by chance I infected.

Prabhupāda: No, not chance. Why did you go where there is cholera case? That is your foolishness. Why did you go there? When there is infectious disease a man is forbidden, not to go there. So you went there without any knowledge and you infected. Now you are suffering. That's all. There is no question of chance. That is foolishness. Chance means ignorance. The ignorant people, they do not know. They infect sinful activities, and they say, "by chance." There is no question of chance. Kāranaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya, Kṛṣṇa says. There is no chance.

Cyavana: If God's energy is so perfect, then how does this ignorance come upon the living entity?

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...given by God. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanam. You have no intelligence even, so that is given by God. (Hindi) Let them become devotees. Why these old men, they are not coming? They are still after money? Amara ajñaya guru hana tara ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128), Caitanya Mahāprabhu says. So you have come to this country. Do something good for these Africans. Let them become devotee. Where is that attempt? The white men, they also came to exploit them, and you have also come to exploit them. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "No-para upakara." Upakara kara. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... They are not so advanced; make them advanced. That is real cooperation. (Hindi) (break) Just like every one of them is attached to remain in Africa, continuing to... But they are being forcefully driven away: "Go away." Attachment must be there. The Englishmen, they have got attachment, but they were forcefully driven away. Similarly, this conditioned soul, he has got attachment. And śāstra and śāstra... These people were driven away by śāstra,, by weapon, knife. That is śāstra. And śāstra is the same thing, but it is books. Therefore it is called śāstra. The original word is coming from śās. Sas means ruling, śās-dhātu. Śāstra, śāstra, śāsana, śisya. Śisya. Śisya means voluntarily accepting ruling. That is called śisya. The word is the same, śās. From śās, śisya. From śās, śāstra. From śās, śāstra. From śās, śāsana. These are. So sometimes by force, sometimes by voluntarily... So just like guru-śisya. The guru, he gives enlightenment, and śisya voluntarily accepts. That is guru-śisya. Similarly śāstra means weapon: "If you don't follow, then I shall cut your throat." Similarly śāstra. So śāstra says that "Now you must leave your family life." That is called vānaprastha. So that is not being carried out, although the śāstra injunction is there. Brahmacari, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. So brahmacārī is the beginning of life, how to become controlled life. Then he is allowed the concession for sense gratification. This is gṛhastha. Then śāstra says, "Now you have done up to fifty years. Now get out." But nobody is following. They are not prepared to get out unless death forces to get out. That Kṛṣṇa does. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). He is not willing. He has got attachment. He doesn't want. Then, at last, Kṛṣṇa comes as death: "Now get out." Kick out. "Oh, I have got so many things. I have got my sons, daughters, and this, that." "Get out. No question." And whatever you have accumulated, that is forfeit. That's all. The same process, just Africa government: "Get out." And what you have attained? All taken away. The same śāstra, śis, śās-dhātu.

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Brāhmaṇa's qualification is there—śama, dama, titikṣa, ārjavam and jñānam, vijñānam, āstikyam, brahma-karma... (BG 18.42). Everything is there, the symptoms. So you are doing business, the occupation of the vaiśyas or śūdras, and how you are claiming to become brāhmaṇa? The... Who is a brāhmaṇa, that symptoms is there in the śāstra. And not only the symptoms, Nārada Muni has said, "If these symptoms are found elsewhere, then he should be accepted according to the symptom." There is no question of birth. Yasya hi yaḻ lakṣanām proktaṁ varṇābhivyanjakaṁ yady anyātrāpi dṛṣyeta tat tenaiva viniriset. This is Nārada's vision. So it is the symptom. Just like a doctor, medical man. He diagnoses according to the symptom. He finds out the cause. So symptom is required, not that a man has become diseased or healthy by birth. No. By birth he is born. Then again, when he develops certain types of symptom, so one has to take him in that way. That is śāstra. We are accepting, or giving them sacred thread, brāhmaṇa, after seeing that they are actually acting as a brāhmaṇa, not superficially. Therefore we take some time to see whether he can develop brahminical symptom. That is our process, not that anyone comes, and we give him a sacred thread and he becomes immediately brāhmaṇa. We don't do this. First of all give him chance. Let him chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, follows the rules and regulations. Then let us see. If he is actually serious, he has developed the symptom, then... This is the proper way. Even one comes from the brāhmaṇa family—he wants initiation—we don't give immediately, even if he is coming from a brāhmaṇa... That is a good facility, that he is born in a brāhmaṇa family, but the symptom is the first necessity. Either you are born in a brāhmaṇa family or śūdra family, it doesn't matter.

Indian man (6): (unclear)

Brahmānanda: What is that? The brāhmaṇas who come over from?

Indian man (6): From ISKCON center. We have a tendency (unclear)

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Brahmānanda: This boy didn't attend mangal ārati.

Prabhupāda: Don't set bad example. That is detrimental.

Devotee (7): Śrīla Prabhupāda, is it for the advanced devotees...?

Prabhupāda: Nobody is advanced. Everyone is student. He must follow. There is no question of advanced.

Devotee (7): I mean, they call śūdras...

Prabhupāda: Śūdras? Śūdra, how he can be devotee? Śūdras are never devotee.

Indian man (4): No, he says sometimes the devotees, they call the other devotee that "You are śūdra."

Prabhupāda: That is jokingly. (laughter)

Indian man (4): Prabhupāda, sometimes you have said that this Gāyatrī was first spoken by the Lord, and this is a sound vibration of the Kṛṣṇa's flute, and it was heard by Brahma. Right? And these brāhmaṇas, so-called brāhmaṇas...

Prabhupāda: There is no question of "so-called." We want real brāhmaṇa. That's all. It was heard by the real brāhmaṇa, Brahma. Brahma, Brahma.

Indian man (4): So they worship Gāyatrī. They say it like as a...

Prabhupāda: They... Whatever they say, you forget that. You do your own duty. You follow the rules and regulation and do the needful. Why you...?

Indian man (4): But we have to make them understand very clearly.

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: There is beads.

Brahmānanda: No, he's saying that when we chant our rounds, how can we be sure that when we chant the round that the round is a perfect, attentive round, sincere?

Prabhupāda: Therefore it is śāstra, "You must." There is no question of understanding.

Brahmānanda: The quality of the chanting he's asking. How can we make the quality the best?

Prabhupāda: Quality, you'll understand first of all come to the quality. Without having quality, how he'll understand the quality? You follow the instruction of your spiritual master, of the śāstra. That is your duty. Quality, no quality—it is not your position to understand. When the quality comes there is no force. You will have a taste for chanting. You will desire at that time, "Why sixteen round? Why not sixteen thousand rounds?" That is quality. That is quality. It is by force. You'll not do it; therefore at least sixteen rounds. But when you come to the quality, you will feel yourself, "Why sixteen? Why not sixteen thousand?" That is quality, automatically. Just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura was doing. He was not forced to do. Even Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He requested, "Now you are old enough. You can reduce." So he refused, "No. Up to the end of my life I shall go on." That is quality. Have you got such tendency that you will go on chanting and nothing to do? That is quality. Now you are forced to do. Where is the question of quality? That is given a chance so that one day you may come to the quality, not that you have come to the quality. Quality is different. Athāśaktiḥ. Aśakti, attachment. Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī says that "How shall I chant with one tongue, and how shall I hear, two ears? Had it been millions of tongue and trillions of ear, then I could enjoy it." This is quality. Quality is not so cheap. Maybe after many births. For the time being you go on following the rules and regulations. It is being done by force. Where is the quality? So you wanted to understand quality. This is the quality. You'll not be forced, but automatically you'll desire. That is quality. I am writing books. I am not being forced by anyone. Everyone can do that. Why one does not do it? Why I get up at night, one o'clock, and do this job? Because I cannot do without it. How one will do it artificially?

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: So my mother became so disturbed that "This girl is not being married. Shall I commit suicide?" Yes. You see? My eldest sister, she was nine years old, older than me, and she was married before my birth. And my mother-in-law was married at the age of seven years, and my father-in-law was eleven years. I was married... My wife was eleven years. So in this age there is no question of love. It is not that the husband and wife lives together, no. Unless the girl is grown up, she is not going to the husband. She remains with the father and mother. Sometimes they meet, and the wife is taught, giving some sweetmeat to the husband-official. Official. The parents of the girl: "Just go up to your husband and offer this." So she comes as obedient servant. But gradually they get the connection. In this way the love develops, and when they are fifteen, sixteen years old, they are allowed to live together. Because both of them have already developed that "She is my wife," "He is my husband," psychologically. And there was no question of divorce. The love is so strong, they cannot dream even that "I have to leave my wife," "I have to leave my husband." They cannot dream it. They may fight. The husband and wife fighting, that is not unusual. Therefore Canakya Paṇḍita says, "Fight between the husband, wife, never take it seriously." Daṁpatye kalahe caiva baṁbhāraṁbhe laghu-kriya: "They'll make all arambha, but it is not very important. Don't take." Next moment they will again live peacefully. So according to Indian culture, there is no divorce. There is no question of divorce. Both the husband and wife, they cannot dream of divorce. The love was so strong. Even Gandhi's life, he fought with his wife and pushed her out of the house: "Get out, I don't want you." And Kasturabhai, she began to cry on the street, "Where shall I go? You have driven me away." Then Gandhi said, "Come on." Finished. (laughter) He has written in his life.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then where is the question of nationalism?

Dr. Patel: He never says... When he went to England...

Prabhupāda: Then why he asked the Europeans to go out? "Quit India."

Dr. Patel: Because they were exploiting poor people. There was a question of uniformity of people. There was no question of...

Prabhupāda: No, there cannot be uniformity. On the bodily concept of life there cannot be any uniformity. That is a... When uniformity comes? Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. When? Brahma-bhūtaḥ. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). Then uniformity. You have no knowledge of Brahman. You are living like cats and dogs. How there can be uniformity? That is not possible. (break) Practically you see uniformity. Somebody is coming from Europe; somebody, American; somebody, African; somebody, Canada; somebody, Hindu; somebody, Muslim; somebody, Christian. How they are becoming uniform? Because on the Brahman platform. And if you remain in this bodily concept of life, there is no question of uniformity. Para... (break) ...nirmatśarāṇāṁ. This uniformity means "I am envious of you; you are envious of me." This is our position. Bhāgavata says that this... Bhāgavata culture is meant for paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2). So if you remain in the material platform, there is no question of nirmatsara. Para utkarṣa asahanam. This is called matsaratā. The whole basic principle... Unless you come to the spiritual platform, there is no question of uniformity, peace, prosperity, nothing. Therefore our movement is "Change consciousness. Come to the spiritual platform, Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then everything will be all right." Otherwise not possible. What is that, māṁ aprāpyaiva mūḍha janmani janmani (BG 16.20)?

Morning Walk -- November 4, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now, simply their point is that you realize or I realize Brahman. That is not the end. You realize fully. They think to Brahman means to stop all activities. Now you become dull, without any activities. So that is not the end. The Bhagavad-gītā says if you are brahma-bhutaḥ, then come to this point: mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param (BG 18.54). Then you will stay. And if you simply stay on brahma-bhutaḥ stage, then you'll again fall down. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata, that ye 'nye 'ravindakṣa vimukta-maninaḥ. They are thinking, "Now I am relieved from the conditional life." But actually he's not. Ye 'nye 'ravindakṣa vimukta-maninaḥ. They are thinking like that, "Now I am liberated." He's not liberated. Why? Tvayy aṣṭa-bhavat. Aṣṭa-bhavat: "He has no still information of You." If he is actually brahma-bhutaḥ, then he knows the Supreme Brahman, Para-brahman, and then he engages himself in His service. And when he is engaged in that service there is no question of material, tri-gunātmākam. Sa-guṇan samatityaitan brahma-bhuyaya... (BG 14.26). That is real Brahman, when he is above these three guṇas. Otherwise, if you think, "Now I have become liberated," maybe by your liberation liberated, but it will not stay. You'll fall down again. Just like this land. You can take it-here is land—but at night it will be water. Is it not?

Ambarisa: Yes.

Morning Walk -- November 10, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: If they change... "Now the scientists are thinking that"—that means they are rascals.

Dr. Patel: No, but as a matter of fact, they understand this thing from years back, that there should be life on other planets than earth.

Prabhupāda: Oh, many scientists say. I was known to one doctor Shaha in Allahabad. He said there are life. There is no question of disbelieving.

Brahmānanda: There's that article that Hayagrīva sent. The title of the article was, "New Discovery Creates Turmoil Amongst Scientists." Some scientists have now discovered some new sub-atomic particles. This has completely created turmoil amongst the scientists. All of their theories now are all...

Dr. Patel: Those are elementary particle, smaller than the element, present elementary particles.

Brahmānanda: Yes. And they found a lot of them, so now they don't know what to think.

Dr. Patel: Because they are trying to search it out by different matter. This ancient... I mean, the Āryans tried to search it out by different matter, by yoga-vijñāna.

Prabhupāda: Śruti, from the Vedas. Veda-pramāṇa. Śruti-pramāṇa That is pramāṇa. And nonsense, speculative, that is not pramāṇa. That is speculation.

Brahmānanda: They make some theory, and they become very complacent, that "Oh, now, this is it."

Prabhupāda: "Now we are advanced." And next year, again advanced. Next year again advanced.

Morning Walk -- November 12, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So unfortunately nobody is interested. This is the only remedy, and nobody is interested. Rather, they will put blocks in the progress. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: If the modern politicians of the world follow the teaching of even Mahābhārata and śanti-parva, there will be śanti all over. What is your opinion, sir? That is sufficient if they don't go ahead further.

Prabhupāda: Śānti means to become devotee. Otherwise there is no question of. Jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati. That is wanted. If one does not know Kṛṣṇa, where is śanti? Kuto śanty ayuktasya. Even Dhruva Mahārāja, he was... He became too much restless, being insulted by stepmother. He went to the forest, but there was no śanti. He was always restless. Nārada Muni came, advised him that "You are a child. Why you are so much agitated by so-called insult, family talks?" And "No, I don't want your advice." He refused. Then Nārada Muni gave him initiation, that "This boy is very strong." But actually, when he realized God, then he became svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yace: (CC Madhya 22.42) "My dear Lord, now I am fully satisfied. I have no desire." This is śanti. Even mokṣa-vaṁcha is not śanti because there is demand: "I want mokṣa." The karmīs, they want sense gratification; the jñānīs, they want liberation; the yogis, they want mystic power, aṣṭa-siddhi. Only the devotee, he doesn't want. He wants only to serve Kṛṣṇa. (plane flying over) It is going so low.

Dr. Patel: It is a jumbo.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: Shall I go?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Jaya. (break)

Morning Walk -- November 14, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Saṁsara-dāvā. You are singing daily. Saṁsara-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam **. One who can deliver from this entanglement of material, miserable condition of life, he is guru. That is the first definition of guru. Saṁsara-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam, prāptasya kalyāṇa—one who has obtained this qualification—vande guroḥ śrī caraṇāra..., he is guru **.

Yaśomatīnandana: 'Cause nowadays...

Prabhupāda: Nowadays... Nowadays let them talk all nonsense. But this is the definition of guru. "Nowadays the sun is rising on the western side." If somebody says like that, who is going to accept it? "Nowadays." There is no question of "nowadays" and "formerly." The truth is truth always. Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is Absolute Truth. Jaya.

Yaśomatīnandana: So many yajñas and siddhis and everything going on, everywhere you see. It's so hard...

Prabhupāda: Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ prayair yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ (SB 11.5.32). Those who are very intelligent, those whose brain clear, they, yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ prayair yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ.

Morning Walk -- November 16, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ... Nobody can understand Kṛṣṇa, and they are thinking, "In my imagination, Kṛṣṇa is like this." What is the value of this imagination?

Dr. Patel: That is why I said, sir, that divya-bhāva is very difficult to tell because it is felt by the divya-bhāva itself. It cannot be felt by the...

Prabhupāda: Yes, and therefore Kṛṣṇa said, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). Unless one is siddha, there is no question of understanding Kṛṣṇa. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). Even if he is siddha he cannot understand. Out of many of them, one may understand. And they are trying to understand Kṛṣṇa by imagination. Just see the folly. Kṛṣṇa said,

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
kaścid yatati siddhaye
yatatām api siddhānāṁ
kaścid...
(BG 7.3)

And because one is voted some big man-śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19)—he is thinking...(laughter) He is thinking that "I can imagine my Kṛṣṇa." Hare Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) (break) ...accept the opinion of a saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. Because public votes are there, although he is a puruṣaḥ paśuḥ, we have to accept. So Ambarisa Mahārāja, you are feeling all right or not?

Morning Walk -- November 16, 1975, Bombay:

Indian man (3): What is the harm if I become an animal also?

Prabhupāda: You are already animal. There is no question of becoming animal. You are already animal. (laughter)

Indian man (3): So what is the difference between animal and a man?

Prabhupāda: Because you do not know, therefore you are animal. Therefore you are animal. You do not know what is the difference between man and animal; therefore you are animal.

Indian man (3): Very good. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: You are good animal. (laughter)

Indian man (3): This is right answer. When you cannot differentiate between man and animal, then that means you are animal.

Prabhupāda: And you admit it—then good animal. (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...who has got this bodily conception of life, he is animal. That is the definition of animal.

Indian man (3): Anyone?

Prabhupāda: Who is thinking, "I am this body," he is animal.

Morning Walk -- November 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Patel: Whatever type of education may be, but that is the real education.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Not whatever. This is the education, that the...

Dr. Patel: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. This is education. There is no question of ABCD. First of all brahmacārī gurukule vasan dantaḥ. He is to be trained how to become sober and gentle.

Dr. Patel: Self-controlled.

Prabhupāda: That is required. That is education. This is not education. They are killing the teachers. They are killing teachers. You do not know?

Dr. Patel: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: In the examination hall the police is there, and if the guard detects, "Oh, you are taking notes from books," then he will be killed. So many teachers have been killed.

Indian man (3): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Police, under police they are. I saw in Delhi. One school I went, and the police is there, examination room, but all thieves, rascals. And they are sitting in examination for passing, all rascals.

Dr. Patel: The modern education has become a farce in that dress.

Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Again rascaldom, "chance." Who is making this chance? Can I make you by chance a dog? That is not possible. There is no such chance. It is by karma-phala. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ. The chance is that you are rascal, fool; you do not know what chance will make me what. Just like you infect some disease; you suffer from that disease. So this happens to the rascal. One who is intelligent, he does not infect. He is always cautious. Therefore this chance of infection is not there. Actually you cannot say "chance." It is your ignorance. You create chance. Because you do not know what will happen after something, on account of ignorance it is chance. But if you are fully aware, there is no question of chance. An intelligent student, he does not think, "By chance I may be passed." He reads properly. He appears in the examination, give the proper answer. It is not chance. And if he thinks, "All right, by chance I will be passing the..." Is it very intelligent? These rascals are talking like that. There is no question of chance. On account of ignorance they commit something infectious, and they suffer. And because they cannot explain, they say it is chance. It is not chance. It is due to some cause.

Harikeśa: Actually Marx was very expert at giving economic causes. For example, he said that they would start off with this capitalistic system.

Prabhupāda: No, what Marx has explained that a man is born in a rich family, from the birth he is millionaire, and another man is trying whole life, but he could not secure more than his provision? That's all. Why this is here?

Harikeśa: That's due to the capitalistic system. Because he is born in a certain kind of a system, then this hereditary birth and wealth comes. But that capitalistic system, if it's more in a socialistic or communistic system, then there is no possibility of that happening. So therefore this inequality doesn't exist.

Morning Walk -- December 3, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Somebody is exploiting. Rudra-yajña. (break) ...any mention of Rudra-yajña? In the Bhagavad-gītā the word is yajña. Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra. Where is Rudra-yajña? (Hindi)

Harikeśa: How does one stop cheating in a world of cheats?

Prabhupāda: This material world is meant for cheating. You cheat, and others will cheat you. That's all. This is material world. It is not "how?" If you inquire, "How it is cold?"... The season is cold. There is no question of how. The place is for cheating and cheaters. So there is no question, "How it is cheating?"

Harikeśa: So you can't stop the cold.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: You can't stop the cheaters.

Prabhupāda: No. Yes, it is not possible. But you can do everything by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the advantage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). You cannot get out of sinful action, but Kṛṣṇa can do it. Therefore He says, "I'll get you released." You cannot get released; therefore He says, "I'll do that."

Harikeśa: So bringing it to a practical platform...

Prabhupāda: Practical means it will be done by Kṛṣṇa. Your only business is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. You cannot do anything. And as soon as you think that "I shall be able to do it," then you are a rascal. Immediately you are rascal.

Harikeśa: So only a fully surrendered soul can do everything perfectly.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, Gitopanisad. So Gītā is the substance and summary of all Upaniṣads, and Upaniṣads means Vedas. That is the Vedic knowledge.

Harikesa: But if you negate "I," there's no question of seeing.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Harikesa: If you negate the "I..."

Prabhupāda: The same principle, that "You are seeing. Now kill yourself: you don't see." That's all. The same philosophy. You are seeing and feeling disturbance—better kill yourself; you'll not see, then all problems solved. This is their advise. Kill yourself. So who will agree to that?

Dr. Patel: Yes, philosophically kill yourself, and get yourself transferred to a different life.

Prabhupāda: No, no...

Dr. Patel: I mean not physically, I mean as a philosophical point...

Prabhupāda: "Kill" means you finish yourself, no more seeing...

Dr. Patel: Finish your present ego...

Prabhupāda: That is your interpretation. Killing means finish everything. Killing does not mean that you will again see. There is not killing.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: False ego, you can say false ego. "I exist"; this is pure ego. I exist, that's a fact, and when we say "I exist for this life, I can finish it, there is no next life," that is not pure ego.

Dr. Patel: That should be the ego of God or the ego of you. (Sanskrit) Whether God's ego or your ego, there cannot be two egos.

Prabhupāda: Sama hi, sama hi. You are already sama hi. Sarvam kalv idam brahma. You are already in Brahman. There is no question of samai. The rascal cannot see. They say samai. Why samai? You are already there. You do not know. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, brahma-bhūta prasannātmā. I am already here, prasannātmā. If you have the false impression that "I am out of brahman," that is, there is question of samai. But if you know that you are already in brahman, then where is the question of samai? Prasannātmā. This is real explanation. Brahm-bhuta prasannātmā. Now we understand that I am aha brahmāsmi. That is real knowledge. I am not this body, I am not American, I am not Indian. Aha brahmāsmi...

Dr. Patel: "I am not this body."

Prabhupāda: Ah, that is real knowledge. But they are under the impression of this false knowledge. Therefore it is samai. Why samai? You are already there. Kṛṣṇa says mamaivāṁso jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). When the sun is there, the sunshine is also there. Always. So you are sunshine and Kṛṣṇa is sun, so we are already together. But the cloud is there. We are thinking "I am not sunshine; I am cloud." That is misconception. But when we understand that the cloud is no more there, then aha brahmāsmi. Brahm-bhūta prasannātmā. That is wanted. Under the fool's guidance you are becoming fool. And if we take the real guidance, then we come into the real knowledge. We have created a fool's paradise. Everyone is a fool, and he is promising paradise.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: This is called living under (indistinct)...

Prabhupāda: This is going on. Otherwise why there are so many rascals? (indistinct) The fools make it a fool's paradise. Take Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Everything's all right. There is no question...

Dr. Patel: This māyā is duratyayā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then, mām eva... Why don't you surrender? māyā will not disturb.

Dr. Patel: (Hindi aside to someone) Sir, then, sama sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhakti labhate parām. In your, I mean... That is the highest...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that you can say when you are yourself brahma bhūta (SB 4.30.20). But if you are not brahma bhuta, that is not possible. They are trying to unite everyone in the United Nations, all cats and dogs. They are simply barking. There is no possibility of unity. That is not possible. They'll simply go on barking. And it is an association of dogs barking. That's all. So if you keep them dogs, there is no question of unity. If you bring them to brahman consciousness, aha brahmāsmi, then there will be unity.

Dr. Patel: That is that sama sarveṣu bhūteṣu.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And then when you are in that stage, then you can become qualified to serve God. Mad-bhakti labhate parām. So bhakti is not so easy. Manuṣyāṇā sahareṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye.

Dr. Patel: It is more difficult than...

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: One woman, out of her eagerness to see Jagannātha, there was big crowd, she jumped up over the shoulder of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and the devotees said, (in an urgent whisper:) "Come on, come on down. What you are doing?" Caitanya: "No, she is so eager to see Jagannātha. Don't disturb. Don't disturb. Let her stand on My shoulder." So there is no question of hating woman. We want simply devotee. That's all. But unless we are very advanced, we take precaution. That is another thing.

Dr. Patel: Man is very (indistinct) grahi. Mind... I mean Arjuna was told by Bhagavān in sixth ajya, "Mind is so difficult to control..." (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He says that "My mind is disturbed even by seeing a wooden doll of a woman." So that is also there.

Dr. Patel: I mean the Vaiṣṇavas, sir, sādhus, they are not expected to look at the pictures of women.

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is not... Then how Caitanya Mahāprabhu allowed the woman to stand on His shoulder?

Dr. Patel: He is, was a mahaprabhu. Not for us...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. That is the criterion, that if one is perfect devotee, then it is all right. And so long he is not or she is not perfect devotee, then there is restriction.

Dr. Patel: In the sādhana stage.

Morning Walk -- December 23, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Harikeśa: It's not fair. You have completely destroyed the opposition. (Prabhupāda laughs) There is no question of fight.

Prabhupāda: The actual fact is that Lord Śiva did not give permission, but he did not go to protect Rāvaṇa, because he knew that it was impossible to give him protection. That is summarized in Bengali, rākhe kṛṣṇa māre ke, māre kṛṣṇa rākhe ke. If Kṛṣṇa kills somebody, wants to kill somebody, nobody can give him protection. That is the conclusion. And if Kṛṣṇa protects somebody, nobody can kill him. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. Huh? He was protected by Lord Nṛsiṁha-deva. Who can kill?

Kīrtanānanda: Why did Lord Śiva try to protect Banasura?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Kīrtanānanda: Didn't Lord Śiva try to protect Banasura?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You must try, when your son is in danger, you must try. That is natural. That is not uncommon. You can save or not save, that is a different thing. But it is you duty, if somebody is under your protection, you must try to save him, even at the risk of your life. That is real protector.

Lokanātha: Do you have plans, Śrīla Prabhupāda, to comment on Rāmāyaṇa in future?

Morning Walk -- December 24, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...if there is truth, where is the scope of experiment?

Dr. Patel: I mean, that you want to, you want to pick up that point, then you are absolutely right, there is no experiment.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is contradiction. If you say "truth," there is no question of experiment. That I..., try to understand. It is contradiction.

Dr. Patel: By all these jñāni-yogīs, I mean you are a bhakti-yogī, but I talk of jñāna-yogīs.

Prabhupāda: Jñāna-yoga is also truth if you follow. Just like jñānāvasthitā tad gatena manasā. So that is truth. But when there is question of experiment, that is not truth. That is my point.

Dr. Patel: Then they are making experiment in an area which is not already known.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that means that that is not truth. So experiment with truth cannot be; this is contradiction.

Dr. Patel: No, you are right that way.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: But your how..., ask a question puzzling with me. So I...

Prabhupāda: No, I ask you, that how this experiment with truth can be?

Morning Walk -- December 24, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, I ask you, that how this experiment with truth can be?

Dr. Patel: The experiment with sciences, we are making experiment with biological sciences and abstract, I mean sciences of physics and chemistry, and that those who are truths already, we are trying to honor. We cannot make truths. Truths are there already settled by God. God, we try to find out what is exactly, and how it is being done. But we are not trying to find out who is doing. That is your point. I understand.

Prabhupāda: No. If the truth is there, there is no question of experiment.

Dr. Patel: We are experimenting to find out the truth. Truth is there. My house is there, sir, but you may go this way or that way, that way. We are making experiment to go to my house.

Prabhupāda: So that means you do not know what is the truth.

Dr. Patel: Truth is there, but we do not know the truth. That's a fact.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact.

Dr. Patel: We are making experiment to..., experiment by this way will lead up to the truth.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Experiment means repeat, with regard to the matter of finding out the truth. Not with the truth itself.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But the word means, "experiment with truth," that is contradiction. There cannot be any experiment with truth. Truth is truth.

Dr. Patel: Truth cannot be experimented upon.

Morning Walk -- December 24, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They have already, nobody (indistinct) truth.

Dr. Patel: Yes. Brahma-vid brahma eva bhavati, he is just like.... All the knowledge of God is imbibed within.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he is concentrated. Just like our bhakti. Bhakti means we know, "Here is God: kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28)." So there is no question of experimenting. Now we are known, we are concentrating how to satisfy. There is no question of experimentation.

Dr. Patel: But the physical scientists' method, chemistry, biology, is, I mean, this physics, they have to experiment in their.... They are nothing but the finding out the truth behind the phenomena, the material phenomena. That is what I mean.

Prabhupāda: Phenomena is changeable, always changing. Just like this samudra—sometimes here, sometimes there.

Dr. Patel: Yes, right, sir. But why the samudra changes? We go into there, into deep depth of that...

Prabhupāda: That is truth. That is truth. By the yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakro, that is truth. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. That is truth. The phenomena, that is changing. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19).

Dr. Patel: Are you going tomorrow?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Tomorrow at what time?

Prabhupāda: I do not know. What time?

Morning Walk -- December 24, 1975, Bombay:

Harikesa: Haven't bought the tickets yet.

Kīrtanānanda: No reservations yet?

Prabhupāda: All right just to understand? If truth is there, there is no question of experiment. And if experiment is there, that is not truth.

Kīrtanānanda: Perfectly logical.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Kīrtanānanda: That is correct.

Prabhupāda: It is contradiction.

Lokanātha: Their experiments are only speculation.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Kīrtanānanda: One wants to experiment, it means they don't know what is truth.

Prabhupāda: Yes. As soon as there is experiment, there is no truth. And if there is truth, there is no experiment.

Kīrtanānanda: One simply accepts the truth.

Prabhupāda: Truth, we accept or not accept: truth is truth. Hm? There is a father. That is a truth. You may not know who is your father, that is another thing. But this is a fact, there is father.

Lokanātha: You have said many times that when mother says "This is your father," you have to accept.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is truth.

Morning Walk -- December 24, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no question of experimenting whether he is my father. You take the truth from the mother, and that's final. (break) ...being more and more convinced, why Kṛṣṇa says na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhā prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15)? Huh? Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is within these groups, duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ. That is being more and more confirmed.

Kīrtanānanda: They may appear like moral men or learned men, but still they are...

Prabhupāda: Not...

Kīrtanānanda: ...rascal.

Prabhupāda: Rascal, yes. Therefore it begins in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi (SB 1.1.1). The beginning is truth. Satyam paraṁ dhīmahi. There is no question of experiment. It is not this book, Bhāgavata, is an experiment to find out. It is beginning from the truth. Satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi.

Lokanātha: What is sādhana-bhakti?

Prabhupāda: Sādhana-bhakti is practice. Truth is there, but how to be intimately connected with truth, that is sādhana.

Lokanātha: So sometimes we say to karmīs that "Why don't you make an experiment, just try to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, make an experiment, and you will realize it."

Prabhupāda: Because he does not know; therefore we suggest experiment. He does not know.

Lokanātha: So we ask him to perform the...

Morning Walk -- December 24, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jagat-puruṣa: So they can dovetail that conditioning.

Prabhupāda: There is no question of experimenting, but he does not know, he is given chance, "All right, try like this." But truth is there. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (to passerby) Oh, the water has gone this way. (Hindi conversation about the tide)

Śrīdhara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, people can understand that the truth is already there, but they can't understand how by meditating on one particular person or thing, all other truths automatically become realized. They want to experiment to find out what is the unlimited truth.

Prabhupāda: Let them experiment. Because he does not know the truth perfectly well.

Śrīdhara: So just by meditating on the person Kṛṣṇa, all other truths become known?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Kīrtanānanda: Prabhupāda doesn't say that no one can...

Prabhupāda: There are some animals, they do not actually touch the egg-birds. Or the, I think, what is called, tortoise. They simply concentrate, and the egg comes into being.

Lokanātha: If you hear the truth, there is no need to make an experiment at all. Isn't it?

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is perfect experiment.

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: Just like Kṛṣṇa does not say, "Make an experiment." He says the fact: asmin dehe dehinaḥ. "The proprietor of the body is within this body." There is no question of experimenting.

Harikeśa: But that's our thesis.

Prabhupāda: Not.... I say "thesis." Kṛṣṇa do.... Kṛṣṇa says the fact.

Harikeśa: But I mean in order to...

Prabhupāda: But if you don't accept Kṛṣṇa's...

Harikeśa: Yeah, they don't accept. So that, that's our thesis.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then, then take it as thesis.

Harikeśa: Thesis. So therefore it's an experiment.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not experiment. It is to be subjected to discussion. That is not experiment. Because the fact is there. Now whether it is fact, that you have to discuss.

Harikeśa: So this experimental knowledge should be strictly kept in the scientific realm. You know, discussion...? Because you asked me before to write on...

Prabhupāda: The scientific knowledge is already there, but as you do not accept it, then the question of discussion, or, you say, experiment, can come. The truth is already there. Just like the sun is the truth, is there. Everyone knows. Now somebody says "There is no light," and somebody says "There is light." Now it has to be discussed.

Harikeśa: In this book, Lenin has a dialogue. He makes these dialogues. At his.... I was just looking quickly. There's some dialogue here.

Prabhupāda: What is that dialogue?

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: So you cannot begin with this sun. The beginning of educating is that put this thesis, as Kṛṣṇa is putting, that, that this body is not all in all. Within the body, there is soul.

Harikeśa: Unless that's understood, there's no question of knowledge.

Prabhupāda: If, in the beginning, or on the basic principles, he remains a rascal, then there is no knowledge. If he does not understand that there is soul within this body, then he remains animal. What is the value of animal's speculation? Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). So we shall treat them as animals. So what, what we have got to learn from the animals? They're not interested. Now let.... You can accuse: "Why you should say animals?" I may say, "You are animals." That's all right. Just come to discussion, whether you are animal or I am animal.

Harikeśa: Calmly come to discussion.

Prabhupāda: This the..., this theory is going on perpetually, whether there is soul or not. But these people, these Russians, they are so ignorant, they will not allow anybody to believe that there is soul. Atheistic, stubborn atheistic. Although they cannot answer this question that there must be something superior which is moving this body. And they cannot answer the, what is that superior element.

Harikeśa: The unknown chemical.

Page Title:There is no question (Conversations 1975 Jul - Dec)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:01 of Feb, 2013
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=70, Let=0
No. of Quotes:70