Prabhupāda: . . .theosophist and the theologist, both classes, they have no clear idea of God. Is it not?
Dr. Judah: I think this is. . . Well, I would say they do not have. . . they do not. . . I would make a distinction myself between knowing God and knowing about God. In other words, there is knowledge about God which one has in various books, but one does not know God unless one somehow experiences God. I feel that this is the one thing that the bhakti movement of Caitanya has done, in that it has allowed its devotees to experience Him, to know Him personally in a way that changes their lives.
Prabhupāda: That is the Vedic civilization.
Dr. Judah: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). These materialistic persons, they do not know what is Viṣṇu or they do not know that his ultimate goal of life is to know Viṣṇu, or God. This is human life. But that is missing. They do not care to know that the ultimate. . . what is the ultimate goal of human life. This is the defect. Nobody cares to know, especially in this age. So that is the defeat of human civilization. They must know. This is the process, that. . . By evolution, they have come to nature's way, human form of life. Now they must know what is God. Otherwise it is defeat.
Dr. Judah: That's true.
Prabhupāda: The opportunity given by nature, good consciousness to know God, Viṣṇu. Now, practically, take anyone, especially in the Western world. Nobody can say what is God. Is it not?
Dr. Judah: It's true.