Prabhupāda: Just like we are seeing this ocean. We find it a vast ocean. But this vast ocean is nothing but a drop of water in the universe. There are so many, thousands or millions of vast oceans in the sky. So therefore the sky becomes the biggest. Then again, if you try to find out what is the bigger than this universe. We get information that these universes are coming out from the nostrils of Mahā-Viṣṇu. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam... (Bs. 5.48). Just like with our breathing so many germs are coming out and going. So these all these universes are coming and going. So long it is exhaling, the universes are coming out. And inhaling, all finished. Then He becomes the biggest. Then you search out wherefrom this biggest personality comes? Then you come to Saṅkarṣaṇa. If you come to Saṅkarṣaṇa, then you come to Nārāyaṇa. If you come to Nārāyaṇa, then you come to Baladeva. If you come to Baladeva, then you come to Kṛṣṇa. And therefore Kṛṣṇa, the biggest.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The cause of all causes.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The cause of all causes.
Prabhupāda: Cause of all causes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That, the two causes, are not very clear. The material and instrumental.
Prabhupāda: Hmmm?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The two types of causes, the relative...
Prabhupāda: There is only one cause. Only one cause. But they are manifested in two, material and spiritual. Cause is one. But they are manifested in two; one is material, one is spiritual.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the instrumental is the spiritual?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The instrumental cause...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Efficient cause. Maybe. Which is actually acting.
Karandhara: Just like the material cause of the ocean is the rain.
Prabhupāda: Hmmm?
Karandhara: Or the material cause of the rain is the ocean. The efficient cause, the spiritual, the original cause was Kṛṣṇa because He created the material energy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. yes.
Karandhara: So the scientists research and observe the material cause, but they don't have any information of the efficient cause.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, their knowledge is insufficient. And because they are very much proud of insufficient knowledge, therefore they are fools, mūḍhāḥ. One may become proud if there is complete knowledge. But he has no complete knowledge. Still, he's proud. Therefore he's a fool. What do you think?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: He said yes or no?
Karandhara: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The greatest fool.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He admits that: "In future, we shall complete." That means insufficient knowledge. Still, they are proud. That is their foolishness.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are proud because they do not see the reality.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore they are fools. The same philosophy. The pot man is thinking of becoming a millionaires, pot. By thinking so, he has become millionaire. So these fools are like that. Thinking that in future they will make all solution, they are presenting themselves as perfect scientists. That is their foolishness. Our proposition is: "First of all you prove that you are, you are millionaires. Then talk of all this nonsense. You cannot prove, and still why you declare yourself as scientist?" Scientist means one who has got perfect knowledge. Is it not?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.