Prabhupāda: First of all let me . . . understand: This bodily transformation does not make any difference. Either it is made like a dog or it is made like a man, it is made from the earth. So one who knows the ingredient, he does not make any difference, because he knows the dog or the man made of the same ingredient. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. So next, first of all the body. The bodily conscious even . . .
Dr. Patel: He has come.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Dr. Patel: He has gone to Goa.
Prabhupāda: Ah. The bodily consciousness is also material. That is also one. And the soul consciousness, spiritual, that is also one. That is ekatvam. So for a learned person there is no defect. Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini, paṇḍitaḥ samaḥ (BG 5.18). This is the . . . so anyone who is under the bodily conception of life, either human being or dog, they are the same. But that upādhi amongst human being is stronger than the cats and dogs. The human being, being advanced in consciousness, they are making this nationalism. But it is nothing but dogism. Is it not? That's all. The so-called national people are sacrificing so many lives, so many politicians, Napoleon and these big, big leaders. But what is their business? Business is that doggish mentality: "I am this body." So it is very difficult to give up this doggish mentality that "I am this body." Very, very difficult.
Dr. Patel: That is ahaṅkāra.
Prabhupāda: False ahaṅkāra. Because he is not body, it is false ahaṅkāra. So śāstra therefore says, bhagavad-bhakti hīnasya jātiḥ japas tapaḥ kriya (Hari-bhakti-sudhodaya 3.11). A person who has not developed Kṛṣṇa consciousness, for him this advancement of nationality, big work, industry, so on, so on, so on, jati japas tapaḥ kriya . . . Kriya, these act . . .
Dr. Patel: Activities.
Prabhupāda: What are these? Aprāṇasya hi dehasya maṇḍanaṁ loka-rañjanam. It has no value. It has no value. But people are enamored by these things: "I belong to great nation. I am American. We have got so many industries. We have got so many cars." Attachment. So it is very difficult. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ (CC Madhya 19.170). One, after becoming completely freed from all these false designations, to become a devotee is very, very difficult. There is no education.