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The difficulty is... (Conversations 1968 - 1975)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. The psychology is that your people, all the western people, especially youngsters, they are hankering after something, you see? But the difficulty is... Just like me. If somebody comes, "Swamiji, initiate me." I immediately say that "You have to follow these four principles," and he goes away. And this Maharishi, he did not put any restriction, you see? Just like a physician, if he says that "You can do whatever you like. You simply take my medicine, you'll be cured." That physician will be very much liked. You see?

Journalist: Yes. He'll kill a lot of people, but he's very liked.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) And a physician which says, "Oh, you cannot do this, you cannot do this, you cannot eat this," it is a botheration. So they want something. That is a fact. But at the same time, they want it very cheap. Therefore the cheaters come and cheat them. They take the opportunity. "These people want to be cheated. Oh let us take the advantage." You see. Otherwise, they are advising that "You are God, everyone is God. You just realize yourself, you have forgotten. You take this mantra, and you become God, and you become powerful. Whatever you like, you can control. And there is no control of senses. You can drink, you can have unrestricted sex life and whatever you like." People like this. "Oh, simply by fifteen minutes meditation, I shall become God, and I have to pay only thirty-five dollars." So many millions of people will be ready, "Oh, let me." I mean, thirty-five dollars in your country is not... But that much, thirty-five multiplied by million, it becomes thirty-five million dollars. (laughs) And we are crying here because we cannot bluff. We say that if you actually want, you have to follow these restrictions. We cannot allow you that the commandment is "You shall not kill," and I shall say, "Yes, you can kill. The animal has no feeling. The animal has no soul." We cannot bluff in this way. You see.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Meeting with Devotees -- June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: So... But you require his assistance also.

Hayagrīva: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So I think... Then the difficulty is that you say that whatever you decide, he says no?

Hayagrīva: If I don't want this tree to be cut down and he says, "Cut down the tree," does the tree get cut down? That's what I want to know. I say, "I want this tree to stay here." He says, "We want to burn it for firewood." Now does the tree stay or does it go?

Prabhupāda: Well, if... This deposition is very difficult to solve. (laughing) You want to stay, and he wants to burn it. (laughing)

Hayagrīva: Yes. I mean it will come down to something very basic like this, something very simple. Now you said that according to you it should be burned. According to you... If the president is in charge, then if he says to cut it down, it gets cut down.

Prabhupāda: No. The committee. The majority decision will be...

Hayagrīva: That's democracy. That's democracy. That's no good.

Prabhupāda: Democracy? This is the age of...

Hayagrīva: I thought you said we should have enlightened monarchy.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1970, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Passport, visa.

Guest (2): Now, the difficulty is about visa only. Passport I have secured. He's cleared it for three years. Now it is easy to get a passport. I do possess. After getting the passport I wrote and corresponded with...

Prabhupāda: So there was no money with me and in an awkward position... My philosophy is completely different. I was to ask them to cease from four kinds of sinful activities, and they are habituated to these things. Illicit sex, and drinking, wine and intoxication and gambling—these are their daily affairs. So I was thinking, "I have to stop this. Who will hear me?" But Kṛṣṇa... Everything became...

Guest (1): May I ask one thing. How you chose this America to be your first...?

Prabhupāda: My Guru Mahārāja ordered me that "You go and preach this cult amongst the English speaking public and specially in the western countries." So first of all I thought of London, where is London, but I had no money. So I got the opportunity for going U.S.A. free on the, on a trade ship by the Scindia Steam Navigation. They gave me their first-class cabinet, the proprietor's cabinet. I was well carried. But first of all I went free on a steamship. I had no money, what to speak of aeroplane. So... What was your question?

Guest (1): My question was that how you selected America to be your...

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Now, the difficulty is don't try to invent something about God. That is not good.

Guest (1): No, not invention.

Prabhupāda: No, you have to take the version of the śāstras; then it will be possible. If you invent something, try to speculate on something, it will not be successful.

Guest (1): I'm not, you see... In the middle, I may be speculating or you see, trying to... Coming to the human aspect itself, now so many want happiness. Happiness is checked up because of...

Prabhupāda: That material coating.

Guest (1): Material things.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): Now, we want... Because this want is there... Want is made by own nature and there is no way throughout our... Now when we earning means there's so much contami..., mean, sea of...

Prabhupāda: That is not happiness.

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is already there but when you see, you see, you see that it is birth. The sunrise is already somewhere, and the sunset is also already somewhere but in your angle of vision there is no sun. That is going on. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa's birth, every moment; Kṛṣṇa's disappearance, every moment; Kṛṣṇa's existence, every moment. You have to learn that. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said, janma karma me divyam (BG 4.9), transcendental. Yo janati tattvataḥ. Anyone who knows it perfectly, in truth, he becomes liberated. If you have known Kṛṣṇa, then you are liberated. But Kṛṣṇa knowing is not so easy. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ (BG 7.3). It is very difficult to understand Kṛṣṇa in truth. Then how one can understand? That is also stated: bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). Not by speculation of knowledge. Bhaktya. And what is that bhakti? Anyābhilaṣita-śunyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam, ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlānaṁ bhaktir uttama (CC Madhya 19.167)(Brs. 1.1.11). So these things you have to learn. Then there is possibility of knowledge, tad-vijñāna. The difficulty is at the present moment the theory that everyone can invent his way of understanding God. He can speculate. Therefore there is chaos. There is chaos. If you want to save yourself from this chaotic condition of life you must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our proposal. Give me that knife. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Not so many. Begin. Aiye. (break) ...friend of Kṛṣṇa. How much exalted he is, a great warrior, and he has the right to talk with Kṛṣṇa on equal level. Still, he accepted Kṛṣṇa as spiritual master. And he said, "The confusion which I have created, it is not possible for me to clear it. It is You only who can clear, I know. Therefore I accept You as spiritual master." Therefore it is required that one should know who can clear your confusion, and there you must surrender. (aside:) Anyone? Everyone. Come on. Not in the left hand. Don't give anything by left hand; don't take anything. That is a etiquette. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yes. Yes.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prof. Kotovsky: Yeah, because every..., there are some kind of people in some administrative departments who...

Prabhupāda: No, the difficulty is...

Prof. Kotovsky: ...are both masters(?) and ex-British officers.

Prabhupāda: ... the difficulty, that India is nowhere. They are trying to imitate, Westernize, but they are hundred years back. From materialistic point of view, technological point of view, they are hundred years back.

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes, that's right, but what to do for India?

Prabhupāda: No. That not...

Prof. Kotovsky: To improve the condition of life, to be Westernized is the major problem.

Prabhupāda: That... But there is one thing that I am experiencing. India's the spiritual asset, if that is distributed, that will increase India's (indistinct). That is my... Because everywhere I go, still people adore India's spiritual culture. They are after India. And if they are properly distributed, the treasurehouse of Indian spiritual knowledge, then at least people outside India, they'll think that "We are getting something from India."

Prof. Kotovsky: Oh, you are right in this sense to my mind that the Indian cultural heritage is to be made known everywhere. That's right. But from the..., in the same time, in what way this would benefit Indian training masters(?) themselves? Because they are sitting in India...

Prabhupāda: No, India...

Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: As soon as you are educated that God is one, Father is one, we are all sons, then the whole solution is made.

Journalist (1): Because there's no need for any one person to have any more than anybody else.

Prabhupāda: No. God has given everything. God has given everything, but if one party becoming demonically powerful, he occupies everything, the others suffer.

Journalist (1): Yes. But the difficulty is, and that's a very optimistic view of human nature.

Prabhupāda: That is civilization.

Journalist (1): But, no...

Prabhupāda: That is not optimist, that is proper civilization.

Journalist (1): Some people might say, who weren't perhaps as convinced as you...

Prabhupāda: Some people means the demons. We are creating demons. By our education, we are creating demons. That demons, they are being frustrated; they are now becoming hippies. Yes. That is the position. Because everyone wants to enjoy. So as soon as we cannot enjoy, there is some reaction. You see?

Journalist (1): He rejects.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: There are sentiments, like Cowper said, "England, I love you with all thy fault." That is another thing. That is a compromise.

Dr. Weir: The difficulty is in any form of discussion like this is it's very fascinating, but it does show the limitations of transmission of feelings and ideas and all those complicated things by a simple verbal process, which is the real problem.

Mensa Member: I agree entirely, Zen immediately comes to mind where the problem's recognized, immediately acted on and it's admitted that there's a deep possibility of transmission... (indistinct)

Dr. Weir: This is where you can't get a feeling across by writing a textbook on it. I think...

Prabhupāda: No. One thing is that somebody's concluding that to solve this problem, birth, death, old age, disease, is impossibility. That is one school. Another school (indistinct) that there is possibility of control over the birth, death, old age and disease. So why not this school, who does not say that is impossible. No, there is possible. Just like we follow Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says that tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaun... (BG 4.9). that "Anyone who understands Me, follows Me, he, after quitting this body, no more accept this material body but comes to Me." Now, so long I accept this material body these problems are there, birth, death, old age and disease. Then if I don't accept this material body then these problems are solved immediately.

Dr. Weir: This is what they call "Solution by Denial".

Room Conversation with Mayor -- November 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Guest: We have seen that your room is kept well.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Guru dasa is keeping? So I can go and live in my room. The difficulty is that whenever I go, at least another half-a-dozen or dozen will go.

Devotee: The entourage.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) So what shall I do? Therefore, otherwise I liked Rādhā-Dāmodara temple, but...

Guest: We can find a place for them.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest: We can just go and arrange it if you allow us.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Guest: We go while the festival is on. We can arrange for your place for you and for devotees...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: ...to stay. I can do that.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Hear and narrate. So, whatever you have heard, you can speak. (break) So, in your country also they do not like this organized Christian religion (indistinct). The difficulty is that either Hindu religion or Christian religion, religion is one. So what is that one religion nobody knows perfectly, and it was not presented because they did not know what is religion. They are simply sticking to a particular kind of faith. Faith can be changed, faith can be given up but real religion, that cannot be given up. It may be perverted. Real religion is to render service to the Supreme Lord. That cannot be changed. We are serving, if not to the Lord, we are serving māyā. But my, that characteristic to serve is continued. So religion is presented simply on formulas and stereo-typed ideas, but actual religion is this surrender. Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. Bhakti means serving. Bhaja sevayā. Sevayā means serving. So, religion means to serve the Supreme Lord, that is religion. Anything which has no such idea, that is not religion. Then again (you) have different types of religion, how far they are making progress with, on that ultimate goal, serving Kṛṣṇa. The more we advance, the more you become perfect, our real religious life becomes manifested, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We say this is real religion. So what others have to say on this point? We say this is real religion. Bhāgavata says dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2), "All cheating type of religion is thrown away." The cheating type of religion means which does not teach people how to serve the Lord, that is cheating. They take advantage of the religious feeling. They say, "I am God" or "I am everything, you serve me, you give your money unto me, I shall give you some material benefit, atonement. You have made your confess, you are sinful, give me some money and you are excused." In this way religion is being perverted. Therefore, people (who) are educated, (they) say "What is this, religion?" They are becoming disgusted. But real religion is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness-surrender to Kṛṣṇa and you will become happy. So if we say that this is the real religion, is there anything wrong there? What possible protest they can offer when I say that this is the religion?

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Maharishi Impersonalists -- April 7, 1972, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Malaysian. Oh. Malaysians, they are originally from China.

Malaysian Boy: Yes. There's one Lalitā-Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Lalitā-Kṛṣṇa. Yes.

Upendra: He went to Malaysia. He is going to university here, and he went back home, looking all over for the devotees, Kuala Lumpur, Singapore, couldn't find them. He was looking all over for them. Then he came back here for study.

Prabhupāda: They do not issue the visa. The difficulty is. What can be done? Now you... Lalitā-Kṛṣṇa, his name is Lalitā-Kṛṣṇa? He is now initiated. He is pukka devotee. He is chanting, dancing, like anything, in ecstasy. He is a very good boy. Where he is now?

Śyāmasundara: Juhu.

Prabhupāda: Bombay. Oh, he is very intelligent. So if some of you become devotees, then you can start this movement there in Malaysia. It is a very nice movement. It is the movement for the present day, for human peace and love. So if... Every one of you should study the philosophy, try to understand it and spread it. That is good for you and good for others. (end)

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversations with Sannyasis -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Pañcadraviḍa: In your lectures you emphasized two aspects must be there, jñāna and renunciation. So some knowledge is there, but that part of the difficulty is that with most of the devotees in every temple in India, is that they have not renounced these dirty things completely. They still are attached to sense gratification even on gross levels. So whether a sannyāsī or anybody interferes with their sense gratification, they tend to not oblige because they are attached to doing things the way they want. And they think because they are in a foreign country here, a long way from America where the standards are very rigid, that they can do any manner of nonsense and nobody will check them. And if you try to correct them, then they will only do it behind your back. We have seen this, with the sweet shops, with rising early, anything that interferes with them doing as, exactly as they please, they don't want to oblige. And this is in Calcutta, this is in Bombay, and it's happening here in Vṛndāvana. It's not something that's isolated here to the palace, but the devotees all over, they are just behaving on the level of sense gratification, and that's why there is so much rajas guṇa in the temples. So much rajas guṇa.

Prabhupāda: This is a fact. So how to correct it. If you do not correct yourself, how you can correct?

Pañcadraviḍa: Well we, many of us have tried to correct ourself, and as a result we have been accused of being separatist, simply because we don't want to go along with the nonsense that everybody else is doing, but we want to maintain some standard for ourself, of reading and chanting. Because we don't want to sit down and talk nonsense or do nonsense, and if you try to stop them they will not stop. So why we should fall down to that level? So we behave as separatist. We go into our room and we'll read, or we'll go into our room and chant, or we'll try and keep ourself clean, or try and do these things, and that is separatism because it's not falling into the level of māyā that's going on everywhere else in the temple, engaging in party politics and all these other things. That is, that is what I feel about it. Most of the devotees, they seem out of place.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Five thousand years ago, it was all perfect. The whole world, this planet, was being ruled by one king. And they were all happy. That is in the history. Five thousand years ago. Maybe less, in three thousand years ago the history was different. The difficulty is that as soon as one is lost of his culture, he becomes an animal. Dharmeṇa hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. That is the difference between human being and animal. Human being must be with culture. Animal cannot be cultured. So a human being without culture, he's no better than animal. That culture is lost. They have missed the aim of life.

Revatīnandana: They think they have culture.

Prabhupāda: What is this culture? A human being is killing so many animals, innocent animals, is that culture? They are less than animals. Who kills? The tiger kills, ferocious. A human being killing innocent animals... In Christian religion, therefore: "Thou shall not kill." But they are killing only. Where is the culture? Killing culture. That is not culture. What do you think?

David Wynne: It must be so. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. How a human being can kill another human being or another animal unnecessarily? And if you kill, there is law, life for life. But they have made laws for human beings. When an animal is killed, he's not criminal. But in the God laws you cannot avoid that. If you have killed an ant, you must be shot. That is God's law. You can avoid man-made law, but you cannot avoid God-made law. That you cannot do. You must be responsible. If you kill an ant even without knowledge, you are responsible. Such subtle laws are there. So we must know our responsibility. Without knowledge, if we kill, we are responsible. And with knowledge, there is no question. Where is that culture? They advertise, "Live and let live." What is that? Do they do that? Actually? They want to live at the expense of others. Why not let live others? Where is that culture?

Śyāmasundara: Now there is a famous cinema being shown called "Live and Let Die."

Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London:

Revatīnandana: See, the habits are one thing. If we understand that it is an undesirable habit, they can be changed. All of us are from meat-eating backgrounds, almost without exception. We've all strictly stopped. We've stopped taking intoxicants. We've stopped gambling and we've stopped illicit sex life, although we were habituated to doing these things, because we came to understand that it was necessary for the advancement of our spiritual life. But the difficulty is that somebody who is so much engrossed in this kind of life, who has made it a pillar of his life, and that by the psychological effect of such habits, he comes to the stage of being so stony-hearted that he does not see the miserable suffering he's putting the animals to unnecessarily. He has no sense for it. Even if it's graphically described to him... I described it to this monk about how conscious the cow is compared to, say, the cauliflower. He couldn't see any difference. No distinction.

Popworth: I'm sorry. Distinction between what?

Revatīnandana: The distinction between killing a cow and cutting off a cauliflower from a plant. He said, "Both are alive." Yes, both are alive. But what is the psychological state of a cow, and what is the psychological state of a cauliflower plant? Practically speaking, he has no psychology. No senses, no mind, no ability to feel elation or suffering. But a cow is a completely different condition. Cow is very nearly to human consciousness. Practically the next birth after a cow, according to the Vedas, is a human birth. So you're putting so much suffering unnecessarily. But he had no sense, not... An intelligent man who can sense that "If I suffer, I don't like it," then when he sees another living entity put into suffering, he thinks, "How I could avoid that suffering for that living entity, because I don't like to suffer." But this gentleman had no conception. He's...

Prabhupāda: There is one moral instruction by Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita was a great minister during the time of Mahārāja Candragupta. So he was honorary Prime Minister in the empire. So he has a book of moral instruction. So he says in that moral instruction, who is a learned man. So he gives the description of a learned man, that: mātṛvat para-dāreṣu. Mātṛvat. "Just treat all other women except your wife as your mother." Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu, para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat. Loṣṭa means as there are so many pebbles lying on the street, you don't care for it, similarly, others' property, others' money you should treat just like these pebbles lying on the street or the garbage lying on the street.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Apart from this consideration, at least this morality should be observed that cows, they're our mother. We should not kill at least mothers for eating the flesh.

Cardinal Danielou: The difficulty for us is not the idea that it is good for us to respect the life of a cow. The difficulty is the metaphysic reason. You know.

Prabhupāda: No, metaphysics, not...

Cardinal Danielou: It is, it is, it is the idea that all life is parcel of the life of God. You know of this is to us, difficult to admit. We can, there is a very great difference between the life of man who is really called to partake the life of God, and the animal life, who is (French)

Yogeśvara: Temporary.

Cardinal Danielou: No. Without, without, impermanent. Life of man is permanent.

Prabhupāda: That, that, that difference is due to development of consciousness. The human body, human body, you get developed consciousness. Just like this tree. It is also a living entity, but it's consciousness is not yet fructified. If you cut the tree, it does not resist. But it resists in a very small degree. That is proved by the scientists. The Sir Jagadisha Candra Bose, in Calcutta, he's also a very great scientist. He has made machine: when you cut the tree, it feels and it is recorded in the machine.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Anna Conan Doyle: And even you people you have to have people donate like we have the Catholic church...

Prabhupāda: The difficulty is...

Anna Conan Doyle: ...is to make from the people are working, we are dependent on the materialistic man also...

Prabhupāda: No, the difficulty is that we are not satisfied with our living condition. Suppose I am, I have got this body. To maintain this body, I require my food, and for getting the food, I must have some money. I must have some occupation. This is one thing. But people are now... Suppose one thousand francs will provide his family, himself. He's not satisfied with one thousand francs. He wants ten thousand. That is the fault. Therefore he does not find time for Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Anna Conan Doyle: That's right.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the disease. Otherwise, if, if everyone is satisfied when the necessities is supplied and balance time he saves for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no difficulty. But he is, he is always, twenty-four hours busy, how to increase, how to increase. Yes.

Anna Conan Doyle: It becomes a vice.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) Yes. Yes. Greediness. Atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ (NOI 2). Atyāhāra. Atyāhāra means eating more, or collecting more. So they want to eat more, collect more than necessity.

Anna Conan Doyle: That's true. They do not need all the things they have around. It is perfectly...

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, why not proved? Just like I gave you the... this water, this sand, it is practical. Now you must know somebody has made it.

Karandhara: Well, the difficulty is, in a group of atheists, you can't prove God no matter what you say.

Prabhupāda: No, atheists, kick them on their face. Atheists, they are... Those who are reasonable, that everything see, that somebody has made. So this sand is also made by somebody, the water is also made by somebody, the sky is also made by somebody. Now you find out who is that somebody. That is knowledge.

Dr. Wolfe: They do not want to transcend the limits. They do not want to transcend the limits.

Prabhupāda: There is no question of transcending, practical. Everything you see, it is made by somebody. The stick is made by somebody. The cloth is made by somebody. So this must be made by somebody.

Dr. Wolfe: But they would say, "Present me the somebody so that I..." They would say, "Present to me the somebody so that I can see him."

Prabhupāda: Yes, I'll present you. So you have to take training from me. You have to make your eyes to see Him.

Dr. Wolfe: We want to.

Prabhupāda: That is the... Yes. But if you refuse to be treated, if you don't go to the physician, then how you'll be? You are blind now. There is cataract. Now you have to treat in a surgical operation. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). This is the injunction.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: "We trust in God." I am speaking that American currency notes bears the slogan, "In God we trust."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: I am talking on that matter. So if the American nation trusts in God... If not... They say, they have declared. Now, the difficulty is they do not know actually what is God, how to trust. That we are teaching. So the government must come forward to cooperate with us. This should be... There should be an agitation. Now this "In God we trust," it is, it is something like vague idea. There is a need of... (aside:) You can make copy from there. If you bring one dozen like this, then it is difficult to walk. (about tape recorders) So our propaganda should be to the United, I mean to say, United States government and public. And you are theologicians. You should make program that simply saying that "In God we trust," and we do all nonsense, which exhibits that we do not trust in God, this thing should be stopped. You have placed in your Constitution, there is, you trust in God. Now you should understand what is God and how to trust. That we are teaching. This should be taken very seriously. Because you cannot change your Constitution. Already there is that. But you must know it perfectly well what is God and how to trust Him. That science we are teaching, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. The government should cooperate fully. There should be school, college, to understand what is God, how to trust. This movement should be started. What do you think?

Karandhara: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Room Conversation with Latin Professor -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Professor: For me, and I suppose, for so many others, the difficulty is getting from the intellectual willingness to accept the notion of God and even to get beyond a kind of fleeting intuition from time to time that there is something beyond the humanistic world conception to a real inner understanding of that reality. And I suppose that is what your work is all about, to...

Prabhupāda: Yes. God is... God is beyond our intellectual platform. (door opens) Come on. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So Professor, give him some seat. He'll stand?

Śrutakīrti: I sent someone out for a chair, but he hasn't found one.

Prabhupāda: And what is that? Good morning. Hare Kṛṣṇa. There are three stages. First stage of understanding is direct perception, by senses. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhuḥ. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find. Here, from the material platform, our source of knowledge is direct perception. That is crude, pratyakṣa. It is called pratyakṣa. That is crude knowledge, direct perception. Just like I am seeing the sun. I am getting some idea of the sun, but that is not the perfect idea, although I am seeing it daily. I am seeing just like a disc, but it is very, very big. So my direct perception cannot give me perfect knowledge. The first... Besides that, at our present stage, material condition, we are imperfect because we commit mistake. By direct seeing the sun, I am thinking that it is just like a disc. Then we are illusioned. We, sometimes we accept something for something. Then, with this imperfect knowledge, we try to become teacher. That is cheating. And at the end, our senses are imperfect. So with so many imperfectness, how we can get perfect knowledge? What is your answer?

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Not sectarian. You do not know. Why do you say sectarian? How it is sectarian?

Devotee (1): They say that it represents...

Prabhupāda: We are preaching God consciousness. So is it not for everyone? God consciousness is sectarian? Is it meant for certain sect? Or it is meant for human beings?

Hṛdayānanda: The difficulty is that nowadays every common man has his own God..., theory of God consciousness.

Prabhupāda: No, no, every common man he says "I got my mathematics." Will he be accepted?

Hṛdayānanda: No.

Prabhupāda: So why these things should be allowed? That is our proposition. Every man will say, "No, I've got my own mathematics." Will he be allowed? So we have to fight, otherwise what is the meaning of preaching?

Hṛdayānanda: Fight.

Prabhupāda: If you think that everything will be accepted very easily, then what is the necessity of preaching?

Hṛdayānanda: Jaya!

Prabhupāda: And propaganda.

Hṛdayānanda: You have to fight.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, if you are under direction of a perfect teacher, then your conclusion is perfect. The difficulty is that we are following imperfect teachers. Blind men. And what is the benefit of following a blind man? If the man is himself a blind man and if he follows another blind man, what benefit he will get? Both of them will fall into the ditch. That is going on. Just like this rascal Guruji Maharaja. He is a rascal and he is preparing so many rascals. And there are so many others. They are doing the same mischief, and there is no control by the government. The government is rascal. Government does not know who is real, who is imitation. Otherwise they should have checked immediately. But they do not check. They do not know.

Prajāpati: In the constitution is written in religious freedom. You should let... Anyone who wants to practice anything, it's all right in the constitution.

Prabhupāda: Religious freedom means everyone is rascal and every religion is rascaldom. So how they can check? They cannot check. Let it be. Go on.

Karandhara: It also says that has restrictions. Religious practices which harm people or are detrimental to the public good, they are checked.

Prabhupāda: So... Now here, why do they not check? A rascal, cheater, and he is presenting himself as God, and why the government is allowing him? Rather, we should bring a case that why government, against the constitution, is allowing this rascal that he is declaring that he is God? What qualification he has got? let it be decided in the court. We should do that.

Svarūpa: We have to make definition of religion.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Another rascal is buying. We are not buying. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇam, spotless knowledge, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Amalam. Amalam means without any spot. (break) ...of God is given in the dictionary, "Supreme Being." That is very nice. Everywhere we see that on the top there is a supreme being, just like in your state, the president. So why not this big government, a Supreme Being? Where is the difficulty? Without something supreme, controller, things cannot go nicely. Otherwise why you select a president? Why you select a supreme being and give him all power that "Your order will be final"? Why you do that? Because you want the government must go on nicely. Otherwise there is no need of electing a president. So supreme being must be there, in every management. So this big huge management, there must be Supreme Being. And that is God. Clear, simple understanding. How can you deny? The difficulty is that with our poor fund of knowledge, we cannot understand that how a Supreme Being, person, can create the sky, this huge water, the sun, moon. Because I am thinking, "God must be like me." A Dr. Frog. He is thinking, "Atlantic Ocean must be like this well." That is our defect. He cannot conceive that beyond this well there can be a vast great mass of water. He cannot conceive. So comparing his intelligence, he is thinking that "How it is possible that a person can create such a big sky, such big, huge...?" Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). This earth, so big, huge quantity of earthly planet. So not only one. Millions. And then water, then fire, then... He cannot conceive. He is thinking that "If there is God, He must be like me. So I cannot do this. Therefore there is no God." The same, "Yes. I close my eyes. Then there is no enemies." That's all. He should be intelligent. Just like we are here ten or twenty men. You accept that "He is our guru. He is most intelligent man." Similarly, somebody is more intelligent than me, somebody is more intelligent, more intelligent.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Guru dāsa: Because there is so much demand. He wants to see it. He wants to see it.

Prabhupāda: So why don't you get the manuscript and let us have an Indian edition. I told Rūpānuga that the difficulty is that the enlarged edition when we are attempting to publish, MacMillan says that "We are publishing your book, why not we, we publish." If we publish, then we save our investment to publish. That has not been decided, so therefore I advised my secretary in New York that MacMillan's permission or no permission, you should immediately print. If they print it is all right, otherwise print ourself.

Dr. Kapoor: Haven't you given the copyright to them?

Prabhupāda: No, copyright is mine.

Dr. Kapoor: Oh.

Guest (5): Can you get, get it, published in India.

Prabhupāda: In India, yes. No, by publisher, especially publisher like MacMillan you save so much time and investment also. We are not for profit. We want to see the publication in the market, so in that sense we save so much trouble, but they always look after their business profit.

Dr. Kapoor: Naturally.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then accept Kṛṣṇa. Everyone knows.

Indian Man (1): But generally, people, they don't go blindly. That is what the difficulty is. They want open their eyes, they want to have opened their mind, and still, they wanted to be Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: No, no, if there is doubt, if there is doubt, why shall I accept a person who is doubtful? Why not accept a person who is without doubt? Kṛṣṇa is accepted the Supreme Personality of Godhead by all ācāryas. All ācāryas. So why not accept Kṛṣṇa? Why imitation Kṛṣṇa? This Kṛṣṇa, that Kṛṣṇa, dini-Kṛṣṇa. That is our protest. You accept Kṛṣṇa and be led by Him. The path is clear. (break) ...simply advertising that "You are searching after some leader. Take this leader, Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. "We have taken. You also take." We don't say anybody else, no. We are fools. We do not know if there is anybody. So we are fools. Let us remain like a fool like that and follow Kṛṣṇa. That's all. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We don't say that "I have got eyes, I have got full knowledge." No, we don't say that. Kṛṣṇa says. That's all. This is our version. We request that "You take Kṛṣṇa. You will be benefited." And actually it is being done. We don't present a false person. We present the real person, Kṛṣṇa. Now, if you are misfortunate, you cannot take, that is your business. That is your business.

Indian Man (1): It is open, anybody can take.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But that is the system. That is the system. You should begin. That... That is described in the Bhāgavatam. The First and Second Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam are the two legs of Kṛṣṇa. That is the beginning. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). These professional reciters, they read Bhāgavata. They jump over immediately to the face. The Tenth Canto is described as the face of Kṛṣṇa. So you cannot go immediately to the head. You must begin from the feet. First Canto, Second Canto. Therefore there are nine cantos, and then Tenth Canto. And the Kṛṣṇa's rasa dance, that is the smiling of Kṛṣṇa. So you cannot ask the superior to take the facility of his smiling. Smiling will be when he is pleased. The difficulty is that the Māyāvādī philosophy, they do not accept the form of the Lord. And they do not know how to behave with the form. Of course, there is no difference between Kṛṣṇa's face and Kṛṣṇa's feet. There is no difference. But still, the system must be followed. Pāda-sevanam. It is very important verse. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). When one has heard, when one has properly chanted, he has little experience of the transcendental form of the Lord, then his service beginning. Just like I engage one servant. So gradually he is given service. "First of all this, first of all that, then..." Again and again, again, again. The same example can be given, that the husband and wife. Formerly, when I was married, my wife was eleven years old. So (laughing) an eleven years old girl and I was at the same time twenty-one, twenty-two. One day I captured her hand. She began to cry. A little girl, you see? So gradually, gradually. I know... When my brother-in-law, sister's husband, used to come... In the beginning, the girls were very... My sisters were same age. So they would meet the husband, offering a little pan or little sandeśa. (break) ...after this. Then niṣṭhā. Then he has got a firm conviction that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and my duty is to serve Kṛṣṇa."

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa... Ignorance is no excuse. If there is law and if you do not know the law, and you commit offense, that is no excuse, that you do not know the law. Similarly, human life is meant for understanding God. That is the main business of human life. If one does not know this law, then he is sinful.

Richard Webster: Yes, but the difficulty is for me, for instance, that I have the pope here who is telling me perhaps the same thing in spirit but with different rules, different laws practically. I mean the spirit seems to me to be the same, but...

Prabhupāda: Law cannot be different, but it can be modified according to the time and circumstances. But the law cannot be different.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Maybe you could ask specific examples of differences.

Richard Webster: Well, for Roman Catholics it is right to drink wine, for instance.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Drinking, intoxication.

Richard Webster: Not intoxication, to drink wine.

Atreya Ṛṣi: What is wine? He's saying that a Roman Catholic can take wine. The law allows them to take wine.

Richard Webster: Or tobacco or meat.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Or tobacco or meat. So the rules are different.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: There was a cartoon. When I... One leader is approached for food, that "We are in scarcity of food." The leader says, "Of course, it is very difficult to assure you for food grains. But from next week you will have television." (laughter) Next week you will have television. So these improvements are going on, television, but they are starving. This is going on. Advancement of knowledge and learning is going on in discovering television, but there is no food. This is the mismanagement of the leaders. Dishonest. There is enough food. Punjab still produces food grains. Bengal still produces rice, but they are stocked by government men, and they are mishandling. They are lying on the station for dispatch, but they will not be dispatched. They are rotting. Rainy season spoiled the whole stock; still, they are not dispatched. Official: "There is no dispatch order. There is no wagons available." Simply mismanagement or bribe. This is going on. And people are suffering. How it is possible to purchase? Suppose India's income, the average income, is very poor. Suppose one man earns ten rupees a day, and if he has to purchase ten rupees simply rice for the family, ten..., what for others? Then he becomes dishonest. He wants to earn money by taking bribe in his own capacity. So bribing has become a custom. Anywhere you go, unless you bribe, you cannot get release. And they say that "Whatever salary we are getting, that is not sufficient. Our extra earning is by taking bribe." And now in the Western countries also the difficulty is arising. I do not know whether you are already, I mean to say, aware that so many boys, they are becoming hippies. They are reluctant to do anything. That is a very dangerous sign. If you... If unemployment, no engagement, that is not good for the country. Everyone should be employed. Everyone should be engaged in some service. That should be the policy of the government. And everyone should be happy, without any anxiety. That is good government. So many people unemployed, doing nothing, producing nothing. Is it not a problem?

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Robert Gouiran: I try to work this intuition, to make it stronger, in order to feel where I have to go and to participate...

Prabhupāda: So where is the difficulty...? What is the difficulty in the position you are now, at present?

Robert Gouiran: Good question. The difficulty is that I lost the thought of this transparency by a lot of criss-crossed swords which make a sort of block, and I have very, very strong difficulties now here to feel intuitively the occult plane. And I am back in the reality...

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Guru-gaurāṅga: Coming back now into the West, he feels so much difficulty to still be sensitive, to have this intuition of the spiritual plane.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: He says that there are like criss-crosses, like swords blocking...

Prabhupāda: So one thing is that he's feeling difficulty in the material atmosphere of the West. Is it the fact?

Robert Gouiran: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is good.

Robert Gouiran: And the...

Guru-gaurāṅga: (French)

Robert Gouiran: (French)

Guru-gaurāṅga: (Translating) "Too much thinking, I do too much thinking."

Prabhupāda: Anxiety.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: No. Developed means different body. Development means different body. They cannot say it is not different body. Then if it is not different, then go to childhood again. That means they're not human being. Human being means with logic. According to their definition, man is rational animal. They're not even rational. Like cats and dogs. There is no rationality. Cats and dogs also they have got rationality. Logic plus authority, Kṛṣṇa says. How you can deny? That means they don't agree with Kṛṣṇa's instruction. You see? This logic, I am not giving this logic. This logic is given by Kṛṣṇa. So unless... The difficulty is that unless they accept the authority, it is very difficult. Logic is there. The authority is there.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: They feel, Prabhupāda, that they've been cheated so much by so many philosophies that when we say that the Vedas are written by a person who's not contaminated by the modes of nature, they say, "Well, how is this possible? My experience is that everyone who's written books, they're all materialistic and therefore the philosophy must be like that."

Prabhupāda: But you must be following some philosophy. You're not without philosophy. Even the hippies they're also follow... They've got their own philosophy.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So you cannot give up philosophy. Now it is misfortune that you met with the cheaters. So make your fortune now. Believe in Kṛṣṇa's philosophy. Then you'll be happy.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Jaya.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: The difficulty is, "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." Better you keep yourself ideal character that people can see that "Here is an ideal group of men." Otherwise, in politics... They are feeling the necessity of an honest leader, but they are themself dishonest, they people. So when you point out that "This leader is dishonest," they do not very much appreciate. There is a story in this connection I will tell you, that one man was drunkard. So his friend said, "You are drinking. You will go to hell." "Oh, my father also drinks." "Oh, he will also go to hell." "My mother also drinks." "Oh, she will also go to hell." In this way, all the family members, they scrutinizingly studying, that all of them were drunkards. You see? Then the man who was accused of drinking, he said, "If everyone is going to hell, then hell is heaven. (laughter) Because my father is going there, mother is going there, my brother is going there, I shall go there. It is heaven. Where is hell?"

Devotee: Heaven is where all my friends are.

Prabhupāda: So this is the position. As soon as you point out, "This man is dishonest," and you scrutinize, everyone is dishonest, then where is dishonesty? It is all honesty. Because if the whole business is dishonesty, so there is no question of honesty? Let it go on. That is the public opinion. Why one should be unnecessarily honest? If the whole world is dishonest, and the dishonest world is going on, then where is the harm? What is the use of becoming... The same thing: "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss."

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: Sure...

Prabhupāda: That's it. Otherwise either you follow Bhagavad-gītā or Bible as they are, then you become gradually perfect. The difficulty is they do not follow. And still they're claiming "I am Christian." "I am Hindu." "I am this." "I am that." Rubber stamp. No qualification but rubber stamp. This is the defect. (German) (break)

Vedavyāsa: ...qualifications on the material platform.

Prabhupāda: First of all acquire this material qualification. Then talk of spiritual. (German) Just like I think in the university if one wants to learn about law he must be graduate first of all.

Dr. P. J. Saher: In India. Yes.

Prabhupāda: So you, first of all become graduate then talk of law books. Similarly, you first of all become a brāhmaṇa. Then you understand about Brahman, Absolute Truth. Without becoming brāhmaṇa how you can understand? (German) (break)

Satsvarūpa: (reading from Bhagavad-gītā) "...three modes of material nature and the work ascribed to them, the four divisions of human society were created by Me, and although I am the creator of this system, you should know that I am yet the nondoer, being unchangeable." (German) (break)

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. P. J. Saher: Yes, that's the same what the Christian criterion when St. Paul speaks. They had the same...

Prabhupāda: No. We say that you follow Christian principle, you become perfect. But the difficulty is nobody follows anything. He follows his own opinion. That's all. "In my opinion." What you are, your opinion? That is the difficulty. Yes you can take.

Vedavyāsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Bible there are a lot of statements regarding chanting, instructions that people should chant the holy name of God. Like in the Old Testament it says from the morning to evening you should chant the holy name of God.

Prabhupāda;: Yes. That is the business in this age. Chant the holy name of God.

Professor Durckheim: Whatever you do, do in the name of Jesus Christ, the Bible...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. You take this in the name of Jesus Christ.

Haṁsadūta: Prabhupāda, would you like to take your prasādam now?

Prabhupāda: Not now. Later. The simplest method-chant the holy name of the Lord. That's all.

Prof. Pater Porsch: Should this chanting be loud? Or can it also be half loud, whisper or silently, mentally? Does it play any difference? Does it make any difference?

Room Conversation with Bishop Kelly -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Bishop Kelly: Well, of course, the difficulty as you rightly point out many times there, that man in the present day civilization, he is so often mesmerized, he is captivated by what he sees in front of him... It is the modern garden of Eden that he sees. He sees many delectable apple trees, so to speak, and he feels in the new vaunted value given to personalism and the expression of self, and the self-seeking, that he reaches out towards those things, and I'm afraid that in many cases the difficulty is to convince him that he is only getting poor substitutes until he has tasted and eaten and tried to digest and finds, you know, that there is no satisfaction, there is no wholesome food to be found there.

Prabhupāda: That is also stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam by... That is also statement of Prahlāda Mahārāja, this boy devotee. He says, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum: (SB 7.5.31) "These foolish people, they do not know, what is their actual self-interest." So he says, "They do not know the actual self-interest is approaching God. That is real self-interest. But they do not know it." Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā (SB 7.5.31). "They have made their plan wrongly to become happy in this material world." Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). Bahir-artha-māninaḥ means external: "They have taken the external energy, the material world, as very important. And the leaders also, the so-called leaders... They are being led. The leaders, they are blind, and they are leading some other blind men without knowing that they cannot be happy in that way because he is under strict, stringent laws of nature, material nature." That Bhagavad-gītā therefore recommends,

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī
mama māyā duratyayā
mām eva ye prapadyante
māyām etāṁ taranti te
(BG 7.14)

This is illusion, that they are under the control of the material nature... Just like the so-called foolish scientists. They don't care for God. They think by so-called scientific advancement they will progress..., all the problems will be solved. That is not possible. One of my students, he is double M.A. in chemistry and Ph.D. I asked him to discuss these things. He has written a small, a little book. Find out this book. Scientific Basis of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. Here, yes, this book. So he has very scientifically discussed. The scientists, so-called scientists, they are going to be as all in all... Hm...

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Oh, we have got any experience? You have got any experience? Then, why do you say nonsense, this? You have no experience, and you say something nonsense, ludicrous. They say "nature." What is the nature? Nature is a machine only. Just like the harmonium. It is also machine. But if one expert operator is there, it makes very melodious, oh, nice. So will the harmonium play automatically? And bring melodious sound? So they have no common sense even; still, they are scientist. That is our regret. They are less than common sense man. That you have to expose, that these people have not even common sense, and they are passing on as scientist. That you must protest because you are servant of God, you are servant of the scientist. Call them directly rascal. Let them defend that they are not rascal. He brought some scientist. I called him, "You are rascal, you are demon. You are everything," (laughs) and he tolerated. That means internally he accepted that he is a rascal. (laughs) Actually they... They have no common sense even. So we are not scientist, but we speak from common sense. That's all. Yesterday or day before yesterday, I was talking on common sense on law points, so Rūpānuga said that "You are bigger than lawyer." I do not know that I am bigger than lawyer, but I was speaking on common sense. The difficulty is they are misleading. So many people are being misled by the so-called politician and scientist and... But Gandhi says... He has written so many nonsense things. One thing is that he said, "I do not believe that there was anybody as Kṛṣṇa living ever. Kṛṣṇa is of my imagination." These things he has written. And he is Mahatma Gandhi. Mahātmā's definition is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). Mahātmā means devotee, who have understood vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19).

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Therefore in Islam religion the form is rejected because it will come to that. As soon as they think of form, they think of this material form, beautiful face of woman. That is degradation. Therefore we are strict not to conceive material form. That is Vedic conception. Apāni-pādaḥ javano grahītā: "He has no legs and no hands." This is... means denying the form. And next he says, the Vedas say, javano grahītā: "He can accept whatever you offer to Him." That means God has no material form, but He has form; otherwise how He can accept? How He can understand my love? So therefore in the original Islamism the form is not accepted. So that is Vedic description, form and formless. Formless means no material form, and form means spiritual form, simultaneous. Just like I am, you are. I am within the body, but I am not this body. This form not I am. But wherefrom the form of the body came into existence? Because I have got form. The sweater has got hand because I have got hand. The sweater is the covering. If I haven't got form, then how the sweater has got hand, the pant has got leg? So the pant practically is not the leg. The real leg is within the pant. Similarly, this is not my form; this is like pant, leg of the pant or hand of the coat. Real form is within, asmin dehe. That is not material form. If the real form I could see, you could see, then there was no controversy, the spirit. But they cannot see. Therefore they say "formless." If it is formless, then how the outer form comes out? How it can be? The tailor makes the coat because the man has got form. As the coat has got hands, so it is concluded that the man for whom the coat is made, he has got form. How you can say without form? The difficulty is that we can see the form of the coat, but we cannot see the form of the man. That is my defect with the eyes, not that the God is formless. God is not formless.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now we are bodily busy. Because I am identifying with this body, therefore my misunderstanding is there. But if I understand I am not this body, then my activities will be different. So first of all, you have to understand that I am not this body. That is the beginning of spiritual education. (break) ...with this body, we remain an animal, because animal cannot understand that he is not body. Try to understand that you are not this body. And what is the difficulty? When a...?

Young man: The difficulty is that I fear that if this body leaves me I'll no longer be. That's the difficulty, because it's difficult for me to imagine that when my brain doesn't work, I can't live, if I can live when my brain stops functioning. That's the difficulty.

Prabhupāda: Difficulty is not there, but we have to understand from teacher. Just like the many subject of knowledge we do not understand in the beginning, but by hearing from the teacher, gradually we understand. So that teacher must be perfect, in full knowledge, and then we can understand from him. So we accept Kṛṣṇa. Because He is God, He is perfect. So we receive knowledge from Him, and that is Bhagavad-gītā. So knowledge from Kṛṣṇa or His pure servant, both of them are equal. They can give us that knowledge.

Young man: I'd like to know the relation...

Prabhupāda: Paramahaṁsa? Bring those ice. Put. That's all. Hm?

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Therefore, Islam religion, (indistinct) reject it (indistinct). As soon as they think of form, they think of this material form, beautiful face of woman. That is degradation. Therefore, we are strict not to conceive material form. That is Vedic conception. Apāni-pādo javano grahitā. "He has no legs, no hands." This is denying the form. Next he says, Vedas says, javana grahitā. "He can accept whatever you offer to Him." That means He has, God has, no material form, but He has form, otherwise how He can accept it? How I can understand by love? So, therefore the original Islam the form is not accepted. That is Vedic description, form and formless. Formless means no material form and form means spiritual form, simultaneous. Just like I am, you are, I am within the body, but I am not this body. This form, I am not I am, but what from the form of the body has come into existence? Because I have got form. The sweater has got hand, because I have got hand. The sweater is the covering. If I haven't got form, then how the sweater has got hand, the pant has got leg? But the pant practically is not the leg, the real leg is within the pant. Similarly, this is not my form, this is like pant, leg of the pant or hand of the coat. Real form is within. Asmin dehe. That is not material form. If the real form I could see, you could see, then there would be no controversy, but they cannot see. Therefore, they say "formless". If it is formless then how the outward form comes about? How it can be? The tailor makes the coat because the man has got form. As the coat has got hand, so it is concluded that the man for whom the coat is made he has got form. How you can say without form? The difficulty is that we can see the form of the coat but we cannot see the form of the man. That is my defect in the eyes, not that the God is formless. God is not formless.

Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Suppose everyone becomes head. Then where is this supply of hands and legs? We do not say that everyone become brain. The brain is ordering, and who will carry the order? The order-carrier must be there, but they must carry order of the brāhmaṇa. Then it will be all right. The brain must be there, and the legs must be there. The legs must move by the dictation of the brain. Then it is perfect. It is not expected also that everyone will become brāhmaṇa. Therefore guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. Everyone has got his particular qualities. So we have to utilize—what quality does he belong? But at the present moment the difficulty is that they do not care that in the society there must be a class of brain, brāhmaṇa. That they do not know. They want everyone should become a śūdra, the Communists life, worker, "Work." And therefore they have not been successful. The whole nation is worker, and who will give the brain?

Guest: The whole nation is worker?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Communist country, they want simply worker. But still, they have to create manager. Why manager created? Let everyone become worker. Now, Communist country also, although they say worker, but why they are creating manager?

Guest: (Bengali)

Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: That is stated in the BBT. That is the main purpose, that fifty percent must go...

Haṁsadūta: For printing. Fifty percent for printing, fifty percent for building.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. This is the main purpose.

Brahmānanda: But the difficulty is that in India there's no other source of income besides the Life Membership. How they will maintain?

Prabhupāda: What is the...? That you discuss.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, a meeting. (?)

Prabhupāda: That you discuss, how these sources, how their maintenance should be... But BBT is already declared. It is meant for two purposes. Now you find out how the sources. That is business of GBC.

Jayatīrtha: That we can discuss afterwards?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Śrīla Prabhupāda...

Prabhupāda: The BBT, that, it should be: how the complaints should be stopped, and if they have no other income, then how things should be managed. That is... GBC should discuss.

Conversation with Indian Guests -- April 12, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: No, Rādhā... There, Bhāgavata, there is. That is foolish proposition, "In the Bhāgavata there is no Rādhārāṇī." There is. But at least in the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa has never said about His Vṛndāvana-līlā. No. That is very confidential. That is not for common man. The common man, first of all let him understand what is Kṛṣṇa. That is Bhagavad-gītā. That they do not understand. Even big, big leaders, politicians, scholars, they do not understand. Because they do not take to Kṛṣṇa's instruction, therefore they fail to understand. And what they'll understand about Rādhārāṇī? You... If you are my confidential friend, then I can take to my family. And if you are outsider, why should you expect to come into my family life? This is common sense. You do not understand Kṛṣṇa, and you want to understand Kṛṣṇa's dealings with Rādhārāṇī. That is very confidential. Rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī-śaktir asmāt. You have to understand Kṛṣṇa, then His pleasure potency, hlādinī-śakti. The difficulty is that we do not want to become a regular student. Haphazardly, here and there, here and there, but I remain the same thing. It is a science. Jñānaṁ me paramaṁ guhyaṁ yad vijñāna-samanvitam. Tad vijñāna samanvitam. Jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa-vijñānaṁ pravakṣyāmi anasūyave, yaj jñātvā na anyaj jñātavyam avaśiṣyate... (BG 7.2). But the Vedas do not say like that. Vedas say, tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). If you are serious to learn about that, tad vijñāna. Tad vijñānaṁ, gurum evābhigacchet. You must go to a bona fide guru who can teach you. Nobody is serious. That is the difficulty. Everyone is thinking, "I am free," although he is pulled by the ear by nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). You have done like this, come on, here, sit down. This is going on, prakṛti. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27).

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: She has written one article in our Back to Godhead. I am quoting from that.

Brahmānanda: "...in ignorance performed at an improper time and place to an unworthy person like a gambler or a drunkard, or contemptuously, without respect. Charity in passion, performed to get something in return with a desire for fruitive results or in a grudging mood. Charity in goodness, performed as a duty and at the proper time and place to a worthy person and with no expectation of material returns. And charity in pure goodness, performed only to satisfy the Supreme Lord. In the śāstras charity in passion and ignorance is completely rejected, although people do it unconsciously. Charity in goodness only is recommended. Point Eight: Proper and beneficial use of the income and property of the institutions and how far the policies of the government and the exercise of its authority in its behalf are just and proper. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī was the chief minister of the government of Nawab Hussein Shah. He gave us a good example how to divide the property in the society. Fifty percent of the income must be spent for Kṛṣṇa, twenty-five percent of the income should be spent for family, and twenty-five percent should be kept in reserve for emergency expenditure. Spending fifty percent of the income for Kṛṣṇa means for the whole society by encouraging the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Point Nine: The role of manava-dharma pariṣat. I think that if the manava-dharma pariṣat takes these suggestions of mine very seriously, certainly it will be of great benefit to the Indians and the whole world. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is going on on this principle, and if the pariṣat inaugurated by you cooperates with us, certainly we can render a very great service to the human society. So far manava-dharma is concerned, it should not be restricted within the Indian borders, because human beings are in all parts of the world. Point Ten: The manava-dharma mission, its constitution and program. Therefore the constitution of manava-dharma or the institution of varṇāśrama must be interesting for the whole world, and it should be exemplified by practical demonstration. The immediate program should be village organization as Mahatma Gandhi contemplated. In India the majority of the population is in the villages. The difficulty is that there is no sufficient supply of water to produce food grains. Mother nature, or mother Durgā, punishes the godless demons by restricting the supply of food grains. The godless demons are very enthusiastic to produce motorcars, skyscrapers, brothels, and cinemas, and many unnecessary demands of the body, but they are not interested in producing food grains. This is the defect of the modern society. If food grains are produced in an organized way, human society can produce ten times what they are presently producing.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Now you have got the United Nations. Now, if they are sane men, they should pass resolution, "The whole world belongs to God, and we are all God's sons. So let us make now United States of the World." That can be easily done. If they can make United States of America, why not United States of the whole world?

Guest 2: I think that would probably solve a lot of problems because...

Prabhupāda: Yes, all problems. Now, suppose in India there is scarcity of foodstuff. In America, in Africa, in Australia, there is enough grain. Produce foodstuff, distribute. Then immediately whole nations become united. Use everything, God's gift—we are all sons—very nicely. Then the, all the problems solved. Now the difficulty is that we have made, "No, this is my property. We shall use it, nation." In the Vedic conception there is no such thing as national. There is no such conception. That is the idea, Vedic conception of society or politics. There is no question of national.

Guest 1: You're thinking more of an international world than a national world.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest 1: I don't think anybody would disagree with that. I certainly don't.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, that's... Our treatment is for the diseased person. So diseased person does not make any distinction of poor man and rich man. Rich man is also diseased, and poor man is also diseased, and everyone should be admitted in the hospital. So hospital should be in such a place where the poor man and rich man, both of them can come because all of them are diseased. So when one comes to the hospital there is no such thing as a poor man's hospital or rich man's. Hospital is hospital. And everyone being diseased, everyone should take advantage. But the difficulty is, as we are quoting the passage, that rich man, he thinks that he is not diseased. Although he is diseased number one, but he thinks that he is not diseased. That is the difficulty of the rich man. But we are thinking everyone is diseased. And you know better than me being police. There are criminality amongst rich men and poor men alike.

Lt. Mozee: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: So our process is to cleanse the heart, not the opulence or poverty. No, that is not our... To cleanse the heart. If the poor man is cleansed in his heart he will not touch anybody's property. I heard that King, Emperor Edward VII, his habit was to steal.

Lt. Mozee: Yes, he was a kleptomaniac. (laughter)

Morning Walk -- July 8, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His question is whether is it due to our impurity that we cannot convince people to stop cutting their throats.

Prabhupāda: No, it is due to their impurity, they do not take. What you are saying, that is pure. But the difficulty is if you instruct a rascal, he becomes angry. The example is given that if you give milk and banana to the serpent, he increases his poison. Payaḥ-panaṁ bhujaṅganaṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. Therefore we have to select sometimes that our preaching is in the proper place. Because a snake-like person, they will not hear. But if you are a good charmer, you can charm the snake also. (laughter) That depends on your quality. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu did. He made these snakes, the tigers, the elephants, all dancing Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is possible by Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Tripurāri: Just like you have charmed all of us, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Well, I am not going to imitate Caitanya Mahāprabhu. (laughs) I have come to New York, not to the jungle. (laughter)

Sudāmā: New York is worse than jungle.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is called an asphalt jungle.

Morning Walk Excerpt -- August 17, 1975, Bombay:

Girirāja: We could have had an extra story, but since the ground floor will be round and public gathering place, so we're making a little higher plinth in a higher ceiling.

Prabhupāda: Never mind. Do it nicely. And we cannot make garage like that? Hm?

Saurabha: Yes, we can make. How many garages do you want?

Prabhupāda: That we shall see.

Saurabha: The difficulty is there's a law that so much garden we have to make, and each garden has to be minimum 4,000 square feet, so it has to be one particular area. And our land has been divided in so many small pieces, so we have somewhere to make a big garden. Then everywhere else we can build.

Prabhupāda: Do. You have got enough space. (end)

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: (aside:) You don't.

Indian man (4): Another question is...

Indian man (3): I want an answer, please. Are you suggesting that every person, whether he is Muslim or Christian or Buddhist or Jew or Parsi or anybody else for that matter, should accept the Hindu doctrine of transmigration or reincarnation of soul in order that he may be called really a religious person or a scientific person?

Prabhupāda: Well, the difficulty is that we are talking of transmigration of the soul on scientific basis. But you are trying to give it a Hindu color. Why? To become... I have already explained. To become old man is equally applicable to the Hindus, Muslim, Christian. So why you say it is Hindu belief? It is not Hindu belief. It is a science. Why you are bringing "Hindu, Muslim, Christian"? I do not know why.

Indian man (4): The real question between this statement of Mr. Professor and you is that what is religion and what is science. Unless the nature of science and religion defined...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Science is applicable to everyone.

Indian man (3): But when you use reason for proving your...

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the reason, that a child is becoming boy, a boy is becoming a young man, a young man is becoming...

Page Title:The difficulty is... (Conversations 1968 - 1975)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:15 of Nov, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=46, Let=0
No. of Quotes:46